Grenfell: The survivors' testimony - BBC Newsnight — Transcript

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1. 0:00so I have any faithfully now six people
2. 0:04three kids three other knowledge - no
3. 0:15way three to five days five days
4. 0:19why's it applies here before you help to
5. 0:22find in a house now you start burning my
6. 0:29own that the curtains was around around
7. 0:33the window
8. 0:39the Moses basket
9. 0:41[Music]
10. 0:44it was difficult having to relive
11. 0:48something that I've been trying to
12. 0:49forget for last year in a bit I've been
13. 0:56told you know to jump you know what
14. 0:58sorts of stuff was happening from
15. 0:59downstairs and it was a sign I was
16. 1:00prepared to do I'm absolutely in despair
17. 1:04now because I'm actually losing their
18. 1:09will you know this wasn't how it was
19. 1:12supposed to happen it really actually
20. 1:15hits you in your core when you realize
21. 1:18how you actually felt that night it was
22. 1:22extremely dangerous and I realized that
23. 1:24the smoke outside was very strong very
24. 1:28black it wouldn't be possible to breathe
25. 1:31I felt like the moment I opened the door
26. 1:33I feel like I've been hit by a gas as
27. 1:36well as smoke so basically it would stop
28. 1:39me from breathing people that have lost
29. 1:42loved ones children husband wives and so
30. 1:45they have an open wound in their heart
31. 1:47you know will be impossible to heal
32. 1:49basically for them it's important to
33. 1:51find out the truth for the last month
34. 1:55and more inside the inquiry room in
35. 1:57central London Graham fell survivors
36. 1:59have been reliving what happened
37. 2:01most chose not to speak to the media
38. 2:03afterwards but news nights been given
39. 2:06exclusive interviews by some about the
40. 2:08importance of their testimonies we had a
41. 2:11few months of listening to firefighters
42. 2:16and others that you know sometimes it
43. 2:19was a bit vague he was starting to lose
44. 2:21a little bit of hope that we were gonna
45. 2:22get to the truth but you know the month
46. 2:24was our opportunity to say to the judge
47. 2:28this is what happened this is our
48. 2:30version of events this is what happened
49. 2:32inside that building
50. 2:40Natacha Alcock chairs Grenfell united
51. 2:43the campaigning group of the towers
52. 2:45survivors and bereaved in her evidence
53. 2:49to the inquiry
54. 2:50she described being trapped in her flat
55. 2:52on the 11th floor with her partner and
56. 2:54young daughter
57. 2:55despite at least 13 999 calls nobody
58. 2:59came to rescue them for nearly 4 hours I
59. 3:01am now by this point I suppose was only
60. 3:07myself to defect you know that I'm gonna
61. 3:14die they were supposed to be there by
62. 3:19now no matter how many times I called
63. 3:22them I think the one thing that really
64. 3:25hit home to me that after giving
65. 3:30evidence there was a point in my
66. 3:32evidence when I was like I could have
67. 3:35died and I think that was probably one
68. 3:37of the only couple of times I've
69. 3:40actually said to myself you could have
70. 3:43died because up until I got rescued I
71. 3:46had faith you know they're the experts
72. 3:50they will come and get me and they did
73. 3:52you know and I will be forever and day
74. 3:55to those firefighters that came and got
75. 3:58me it's the system that's wrong
76. 4:02[Music]
77. 4:07Antonia Runkle Otto lived on the 10th
78. 4:10floor of the tower and was trapped for
79. 4:12even longer the first survivor to give
80. 4:15evidence he told the enquiry he
81. 4:17understood the danger he was in when his
82. 4:19son sent him a photo of the burning
83. 4:21Tower I remember receiving this photo
84. 4:26and realizing you know the gravity of it
85. 4:32so how big it was Antonio was rescued
86. 4:38from his flat at around 6 a.m. he showed
87. 4:42the enquiry his photographs of the smoke
88. 4:44that poured in through the gaps in his
89. 4:46new windows gaps he'd been complaining
90. 4:48about ever since the refurbishment of
91. 4:50the tower the evidence that I managed to
92. 4:53take with my camera with my mobile
93. 4:56you know this puffs of smoke coming in
94. 4:58and that was really extremely important
95. 4:59and you will see that the smoke was
96. 5:01coming through the windows even though
97. 5:02there was no fire right around my flat
98. 5:05or above me at that stage but around
99. 5:07that time to 2:30 3 o'clock there was
100. 5:10smoke coming in
101. 5:15video of seeping smoke was shown to the
102. 5:18inquiry by another survivor
103. 5:20Marcio Gomez the last resident to give
104. 5:23evidence on the night at around 2:30
105. 5:25a.m.
106. 5:26he opened the door to assess the
107. 5:28horrific conditions on his 21st floor
108. 5:30landing for the last year and a half
109. 5:35News nights been following the Gomez
110. 5:37family incredibly Marcio his wife Andrea
111. 5:40and their two daughters survived the
112. 5:42fire but the couple's unborn son Logan
113. 5:45died for the first time in the inquiry
114. 5:49room we heard marcio's distressing 999
115. 5:52call as the family made their terrifying
116. 5:54escape the police had played me to 999
117. 6:08tape before bars just wearing you know
118. 6:11it's all fair earphones and then hearing
119. 6:13it loud or that loud and more than a
120. 6:16surround sounds or basis and you pick up
121. 6:19on the background noises which are
122. 6:22blocked for my own mind I thought it was
123. 6:37important for the inquiry not just
124. 6:39inquired about everybody to really
125. 6:41understand truly what it was like going
126. 6:43down to the stairwell you know when you
127. 6:46can't see nothing in you're trying to
128. 6:49look out look out for your family trying
129. 6:52to keep everybody moving
130. 7:06[Music]
131. 7:22at this point they've been tripping over
132. 7:25bodies down the dark
133. 7:26choking staircase for around eight
134. 7:28minutes with marcio at the back soon
135. 7:31after he realized he'd lost one of his
136. 7:33daughters and his neighbor's daughter
137. 7:42would have been the time I realized my
138. 7:47daughter's behind me after five
139. 7:53agonizing minutes of searching for the
140. 7:55girl's help arrived
141. 7:59[Music]
142. 8:03this first phase of the inquiry is
143. 8:05investigating what happened on the night
144. 8:07the survivors want the fire brigade to
145. 8:10change how it responds to high-rise
146. 8:12fires in future and I said the inquiry
147. 8:16decisions over the lack of decisions
148. 8:19cost lives and I still stand by it I
149. 8:23think there was a miscommunication from
150. 8:26a lot of parties you know from the the
151. 8:29brave firefighters on the ground going
152. 8:32in and out and I've got nothing but
153. 8:33praise for them and I didn't do this
154. 8:36they saved my daughter and my name is
155. 8:40Dawa but there was miscommunication you
156. 8:44know but between them between the the
157. 8:48command units between the operators
158. 8:50something didn't work so I think they
159. 8:54have to change the way that that's
160. 8:55that's done the blame and accountability
161. 8:59lies for me with those that made
162. 9:03decisions around the cladding but there
163. 9:05is also an element of accountability
164. 9:06about how things were handled that night
165. 9:09and if you have commissioners walking
166. 9:12around not taking control of a situation
167. 9:14or you have commanders completely out of
168. 9:18their depth then things went wrong you
169. 9:21know and that's something that needs to
170. 9:23be admitted Commissioner if there was
171. 9:25one aspect of the London Fire Brigades
172. 9:28response to the father you could go back
173. 9:31and change what would it be I wouldn't
174. 9:34change anything we did on the nights I
175. 9:36think without exception my five of my
176. 9:39officers and my control staff performed
177. 9:41in a fantastic way given the incredible
178. 9:45circumstances they were faced against
179. 9:46they were put into an untenable
180. 9:48situation in a building that behaved in
181. 9:50a way it should never have done that put
182. 9:52the residents lives at risk and without
183. 9:54a shadow of a doubt I personally was
184. 9:56responsible for committing my
185. 9:58firefighters to their potential death in
186. 10:00the pursuit of rescuing as many people
187. 10:02in that building as possible surely
188. 10:04there's some what even one thing that
189. 10:06you would change not nothing
190. 10:09so that was difficult difficult to take
191. 10:13but I felt she gave more of a corporate
192. 10:16answer rather than her own answer I was
193. 10:22absolutely livid I think for me for
194. 10:26anyone anyone that saw what they saw
195. 10:30that night to come away and say they
196. 10:32have no regrets they wouldn't change
197. 10:33anything and that's not a quote but
198. 10:35that's kind of the line she went down is
199. 10:38probably the most cold-hearted thing you
200. 10:41could possibly say the courage and the
201. 10:43brevity of many firefighter wasn't what
202. 10:44you know it was unbelievable but perhaps
203. 10:46she should have avoid to comment on you
204. 10:51know on that question or on that answer
205. 10:54because yeah many people did lose their
206. 10:59life or did struggle to get out because
207. 11:01they were told to stay put because the
208. 11:04policy was like that and because you
209. 11:06know this is the way it should be
210. 11:11during the inquiry we've had evidence of
211. 11:14cladding that went up in flames
212. 11:16of shoddy workmanship of a refurbishment
213. 11:19that changed the building for the worse
214. 11:20it's given the survivors and bereaved
215. 11:23time to reflect on the details of what
216. 11:25went wrong in grenfell do you think
217. 11:28people will be held to account I have to
218. 11:31have faith they will I really do have to
219. 11:34have faith they will I think as time
220. 11:36goes on and as you listen to the
221. 11:37evidence that has been given over there
222. 11:39lost mum you know I just thought it was
223. 11:41me that had the dodgy door turns out
224. 11:43there's pretty much everybody had the
225. 11:45doggy door for it just me that had the
226. 11:47windows that had drafts coming through
227. 11:48bit turns out with everybody so there's
228. 11:51got to be some accountability there do
229. 11:53you have faith that in the end people or
230. 11:56companies will be prosecuted for what
231. 11:57happened that's it that's a tough one
232. 12:01because as you know they'll hide behind
233. 12:04laws and all sorts but that's that's
234. 12:08what I want and I'm sure that's what a
235. 12:10lot of people want you know the
236. 12:13corporate manslaughter that's useless
237. 12:17why did you throw us but it's just a big
238. 12:19fight you know RB Casey gets corporate
239. 12:23manslaughter they pay multi-million
240. 12:25pound fine to someone what does that
241. 12:30mean it means for the next few years the
242. 12:33whole community doesn't get any
243. 12:34refurbishment any anything done because
244. 12:37they haven't got any money because they
245. 12:38had to pay this big fine
246. 12:40[Music]
247. 12:43if we need a reminder of the horror of
248. 12:46Grenfell its laid bare in marcio's
249. 12:49harrowing 999 call which is more than 30
250. 12:52minutes long after his daughter and her
251. 12:54friend were carried out unconscious by
252. 12:56firefighters he began to panic about his
253. 12:59pregnant wife and younger child
254. 13:05[Music]
255. 13:15everything that goes through your mind
256. 13:17at that point was just horrendous and I
257. 13:22thought I've lost my family though the
258. 13:29family was reunited safely their son to
259. 13:31be was stillborn in hospital the
260. 13:34youngest of the 72 victims of the fire
261. 13:37Natacha lost her uncle on the 15th floor
262. 13:40we always reflect back that 72 people
263. 13:43lost their lives the result was that
264. 13:45fire needlessly they shouldn't have done
265. 13:46and anything we continue to do in the
266. 13:49future will be in their in their memory
267. 13:51in their legacy that they didn't die in
268. 13:53vain so when we fight for change across
269. 13:57the country or we you know we push for
270. 14:00stigma around social housing it is
271. 14:02because they should never have died
272. 14:05because you had the always awful thing
273. 14:07that terrible tragedy that's happened in
274. 14:09the past and it still haunts you and
275. 14:11still is with you I don't know is there
276. 14:12ever a day when you don't think about it
277. 14:14have you got to that stage no no every
278. 14:17day do you think there will be a day
279. 14:19when you don't think about it I hope so
280. 14:22I guess that that's that's where we want
281. 14:25to get to you could get a few days maybe
282. 14:28I have to think about it then then yeah
283. 14:30but
284. 14:32nothing will ever forget I think it's
285. 14:35impossible to do that Katy Rizzo
286. 14:49reporting in a statement the London Fire
287. 14:52Brigade said over 80 firefighters
288. 14:55control officers and senior officers
289. 14:57have given evidence to the inquiry
290. 14:59including the Commissioner it's been
291. 15:01hard for everyone to relive the events
292. 15:04of that night and give evidence in such
293. 15:05a public way but the purpose of this
294. 15:08phase of the inquiry is to fully
295. 15:09understand what happened and the
296. 15:11circumstances the fire brigade and the
297. 15:13residents faced we learn from every
298. 15:16incident we attend and immediately after
299. 15:18the fire the Commissioner committed
300. 15:19resources to ensure we learn everything
301. 15:22possible from the Grenfell tower fire
302. 15:23our thoughts remain with those who died
303. 15:26their families and friends as well as
304. 15:29all those who lost their homes and their
305. 15:31possessions