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Greške, rad i putovanja: kako nastaje ozbiljan kuvar | Aleksa Žujović | Smoke&Talk #5 — Transcript

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0:00And the place where we'll roast an ox and serve boiled eggs as an aperitif
0:04What do you mean, in Serbia?
0:05Yeah, I said, you keep the cigar, you don't know why
0:08That’s a tavern
0:08That’s the tavern you want
0:10Yeah
0:10But let’s see the diploma first
0:17Hello everyone, good day, and welcome to another Smoking Talk podcast
0:20I'm with you today, Alex
0:22Hello, Alexa
0:23Hello, thanks for having me
0:24I’m glad to be in such great company
0:27Forget the great company
0:29This smoky company
0:31Well, you belong here
0:32You belong here
0:33We do what we love
0:34Same as you, at the end of the day
0:36We enjoy it
0:36Same as you, at the end of the day
0:37Tell us, good day Aleksa, tell us a little about yourself
0:41Well, to start with, I’m a chef
0:44I’ve been cooking for ten years now
0:48I studied abroad
0:52I also worked a bit abroad
0:53I know, that gastronomy journey around the world in four or five years
0:57How long did that last, and I decided to move back to Belgrade
1:01Where I opened my restaurant in Belgrade Waterfront
1:05It’s called Egz
1:06A breakfast place
1:08A different and interesting concept
1:10We have a bit of everything, but the main
1:13ingredient, so to speak, is egg
1:15That’s Egz for us, Egz, exactly
1:18Where does your love for cooking come from?
1:19Why cooking, and why gastronomy?
1:22Honestly, it happened by chance
1:24That was in 2012
1:28Diagonala Restaurant
1:30We probably all know the restaurant very well
1:33At that time, when I fell in love with the kitchen
1:37I didn’t want to be a chef at all
1:38I wanted to be an architect
1:39That was my first love, in a way
1:42But one day we were having lunch at Diagonala
1:46And the cook at the time
1:49always came out to say hello
1:51I said, Chef, this burger is amazing
1:53He said, come tomorrow and I’ll teach you how to make it
1:57Who knows how to stand up?
1:58I said, sure, okay
2:00And so, really, my parents brought me there
2:04He gave me an apron
2:06And that’s when that love started
2:07I say, love at first sight with the kitchen
2:10And that’s when it began
2:11At first bite?
2:11Yes, at first bite
2:13At first burger?
2:14Yes, at first burger
2:15And to this day, I still joke around with him
2:16And to this day, he still hasn’t shown me how to make burgers
2:19We know each other from various jobs
2:21I didn’t know Mirko was actually the one who got you started
2:23Well, Mirko is basically my mentor
2:25He brought me into the kitchen
2:27Now he realizes he was my mentor
2:30I learned the most from him
2:31Greetings to Mirko Stojić
2:32Big shout-out to Miro
2:34So that’s where my culinary journey began
2:39Of course, I was still in school at the time
2:41I was in high school
2:43But over time, as I got older
2:46I realized that this was it
2:48That’s something I want to do
2:49Because I really enjoy it
2:50When I’m in the kitchen
2:52it feels like I’m completely fulfilled
2:55When I’m in the kitchen
2:57So I kind of, with my parents
2:59came to a mutual agreement
3:01and said, okay, I want to do this
3:04But on their side, I’d say
3:05the agreement was
3:07that I had to finish some kind of school for it
3:10They wouldn’t let me just do that
3:11Just influence me
3:13I’m glad you like to cook
3:14All of that sounds great
3:16But let’s see the diploma
3:19We’ll deal with the rest later
3:21At that moment, that felt a little
3:23Why do I have to go to school?
3:25Become an architect and cook at home
3:26That’s how I cook at home
3:29But over time, I figured out why that school was good
3:32Because we had that management part
3:34Besides cooking, of course
3:37And I also spent some time in the U.S
3:39And in France
3:40The mecca of gastronomy
3:42I mean, whoever is a cook
3:43wants to spend some time in Paris
3:46And maybe it wouldn’t be bad if
3:49our viewers hear
3:50which schools he studied at
3:51Because I know those schools are high on the wish list
3:55of many young people in gastronomy
3:57They are
3:58In America, it was the CIA school
4:01I mean, not the spy CIA
4:04but the Culinary Institute of America
4:06In Upstate New York
4:08I spent about a year there
4:11And then I
4:12Since it was during the pandemic
4:14so everything was a bit
4:16too much for me to go back
4:18It just felt too far away
4:21And there I really, I’d say
4:23managed to
4:24I mean, America really, if they know one thing
4:26they know how to build a good school
4:28And it’s a school with history
4:29It’s been around 60 to 70 years, after World War II
4:32They founded it for veterans
4:35to teach them how to cook
4:36To teach them something to do after
4:39after the war
4:41So I spent about a year there
4:43After that, I moved to Paris
4:46u École Ducasse
4:49Or the Alain Ducasse institute school
4:51Yes, that’s Alain Ducasse
4:53He knows how to cook
4:54He can cook
4:55You're not bad at what you do
4:58Good stuff
4:58And then, the school is in Paris
5:01So somewhere, I'd say
5:02what I also said
5:04you always want to spend some time in Paris
5:08To show them a good
5:10What was that school?
5:11Maybe not a restaurant right away
5:13Because I got to really get to know
5:16French cuisine
5:19And the whole, I'd say
5:21history
5:21Because it all started there, in France
5:25What did you prefer more, America or France?
5:26I don’t know, just recently, like 2 or 3 days ago
5:28I had a conversation with that
5:30young girl who really wants
5:32to work in gastronomy
5:34And we were talking about that
5:35I said there are really good things
5:37both in America and in Paris
5:40Maybe I felt a little more
5:42at home in Paris
5:45But I can’t say
5:46I didn’t learn a lot in America either
5:49So, in a way, it’s both
5:51Do you mean because of the style
5:53of cooking do you lean more toward
5:55or is it because of the temperament of the people
5:56and the scene itself?
5:58I think it’s the scene itself
6:00That no longer matters
6:02My path
6:04Because you really learn and meet
6:07incredible people
6:08in both schools
6:11The U.S. does prepare you a bit more
6:13for the American market
6:15Which makes sense
6:16While Paris is a European city
6:19the school is European
6:21so it prepares you more
6:22for the European market itself
6:23But with both schools
6:26you come out with the knowledge
6:27to, above all, meet people
6:32All over the world
6:33Which is the most important thing
6:34Well, but that’s the thing
6:35The Old World and the New World
6:37I’m sure that in Paris
6:40they still hold on to certain
6:43primordial techniques
6:45of food preparation
6:46and kitchen setup
6:48and working methods
6:49Of course, with all the new influences
6:53They’re a tough machine
6:54They’re proud
6:56of their gastronomy
6:57and of their beginnings
6:59They will always stick to that
7:02Which is right
7:02Yes, it is right
7:06And you need to know that
7:08As a chef
7:10you have to have
7:11that knowledge of French gastronomy
7:14You don’t have to do fermentation
7:15That’s already your own signature
7:17whether you want to work with it or not
7:19But French cuisine is something
7:21and techniques
7:23You have to know that
7:24Now, whether you use it or not
7:25that’s your call
7:28You need to be familiar with it
7:31Which restaurant did you
7:33If you've been to restaurants
7:35and work, do internships, or private experience?
7:37Which restaurant left the
7:39strongest impression and impact on you?
7:41The restaurant itself, the system
7:43or the chef?
7:44I have to admit, I did an internship
7:47in Stockholm
7:49Francin
7:51I really liked it a lot
7:53the concept itself
7:54It’s not that old-school fine dining
7:57white tablecloth stuff
7:59You sit there, eat, tasting menu and all
8:01The waiter brings it to you
8:03But it’s one whole team
8:04The kitchen is open
8:07Rock ’n’ roll music in the background
8:09You just sit there
8:10It's a coffee shop
8:13But what I liked most there, first of all
8:15was that it was one team
8:17No, like, I’m the chef
8:19I’m the waiter, you pour the water and wine
8:22I work with food
8:23They have nothing to do with each other
8:26We’re one team
8:26We all help each other
8:29That’s this new wave of gastronomy
8:33Nordic cuisine
8:37Because I worked there too
8:39I really liked it
8:42Food, some global gastronomy
8:45They don’t really have any
8:46The dish is heavily inspired by Japan
8:49But now it has a bit of everything
8:51The whole concept of being one team
8:53It feels so much more honest
8:55than in some
8:57fine-dining restaurants in Paris
8:59where it’s still all white tablecloths
9:01Which is still totally fine
9:03You know what I mean, chef
9:05Leave him be
9:06That’s a restaurant that really left me
9:09with a strong impression
9:09Those white tablecloths always bother me because of the ash
9:11I always hate that
9:13But at least they know where I was sitting
9:16Ashes and crumbs
9:18You have your own napkin
9:19I like white tablecloths
9:21Maybe I’m a little old school
9:22but that’s the real thing to me
9:25I’ll say it again
9:26eating has its charms
9:29But again, I’ll say
9:31I caught onto that
9:33new wave of Nordic cuisine
9:36Which I like too
9:38All that fermentation
9:40I find all of that really interesting
9:41So
9:42that’s a restaurant that left
9:44a real impression on me, but of course also
9:47Osteria Francescana, where I worked
9:50That's what I'm supposed to say
9:50they’re all a bit more relaxed
9:51The Italians, compared to the French
9:54compared to Americans
9:55Is there some difference in that story?
9:57They’re the real deal
9:59The Italians, as we know them, that’s how they are
10:02Oops, and the job is basic
10:05And no cappuccino exist?
10:07Well, no way
10:09I'm a fan of Ferrari
10:10since that was more modern
10:12I'm a McLaren fan
10:14I didn’t do too well
10:15but hey, it doesn’t matter
10:16And everyone has their own football type
10:19What’s that?
10:20That’s about it
10:22So that one too
10:23I mean, that was my first restaurant
10:25where I worked at a more serious level
10:28where I realized, okay, I can do this
10:31When I first went to Massimo's
10:34I'm just so
10:36like we were being introduced
10:39Aleksa, drago mi
10:40so you're from Serbia?
10:41What, from Serbia?
10:43Yes, yes
10:44One day
10:47He'll come to us too
10:49Aleksa
10:50how did cigars come into it, and who got you into them?
10:53Well, cigars
10:54mainly because of
10:56my father, the one who introduced me to them
10:58I know him, I know him
11:00We’re that older generation
11:02That’s right, he introduced me
11:04To the world of cigars, of course
11:05with Zdravko at the school
11:08Purost
11:09I have to admit, that made me especially happy
11:12I often mention that
11:13parents have started bringing their sons to cigar school
11:15because they feel
11:18that it’s not bad at all
11:20but that it can maybe help them sort out their thoughts in life
11:22but that can help them
11:24sort out their thoughts in life
11:27And I remember that then Ćale
11:28immediately asked
11:29by Šefs edition by Davidov
11:32so that’s why we put it together for you
11:33What else would it be, the chef’s edition, of course
11:36Yeah
11:36When I was chasing that Chef’s Edition for him
11:39I think it was 2019
11:41when it came out, I was in the U.S. then
11:44go to Davidov, buy me
11:45They have it
11:46And I really walk into Madison Avenue
11:48where the store said, do you have the Chef’s Edition?
11:52He looks at me like
11:53well, we still have some left
11:55like, how many do you want?
11:56I told him, one is enough
11:57but I could wrap it up
12:00I didn’t even ask him
12:01probably if I had asked him nicely
12:02take it
12:04Go ahead, no problem
12:06No, but yeah, that was one
12:08basically the ’19, then ’21
12:10and then up to ’25
12:11There wasn’t the next one
12:13This one that came out last year
12:16has an interesting story
12:18five chefs
12:20who together have 11 Michelin stars
12:23And then
12:23I was at one
12:25I mean, we’ll check
12:27but I think it’s 17
12:2811
12:28I think it's 11
12:30I can throw money around just to chill
12:33But what’s interesting
12:35is
12:38when people try
12:39that Chef’s Edition
12:40from ’25, they’re like
12:42how good the aromatics are, man, I said, dude
12:44so what do you think, that 11 stars just fell from the sky?
12:4711, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1
12:5011
12:51Well said
12:52Okay, some of us were in the Dominican Republic
12:55some of us just got back
12:57We’d just gotten back, so we had to know
12:59We were preparing to learn
13:01But that doesn’t change a thing
13:04I remember that, and
13:06I was so happy
13:07when you opened the restaurant
13:09that I found some old Chef’s Edition in the humidor
13:12I don’t even remember the year anymore
13:13but I know it was wrapped in seriously yellow cellophane
13:16And that was just something I really felt
13:18he said
13:19and that’s one of those curses
13:21you probably know that too, Miloš
13:22You keep a cigar and don’t know why
13:24Then the moment comes when it’s exactly the right one for it
13:27If I’d lit it before that, I would’ve regretted it
13:29So I was really happy
13:30and I was glad you were at the premiere
13:33Actually, we were all at the Chef premiere
13:36Or you have the inspiration
13:37to connect you with David one day
13:38and then we could make
13:39God willing, why not
13:42That would be nice
13:45If it can’t be done with Davidov’s
13:47we’ll make a despo
13:48We can wrap that up by fall
13:50That’ll be easier for us to agree on
13:53So we can hint that Davidov’s is coming
13:55That would be the first step
13:57Thanks
13:59What is it about you
14:01Okay, you're working
14:03culinary arts in a very serious way
14:07You stepped into something that was
14:08all-day breakfast, which wasn’t common
14:11Here, I can see that now and then
14:13a restaurant with that concept pops up
14:16Where did the idea come from?
14:17Well, somewhere
14:19I wanted to come back to Belgrade
14:20After all, it’s home, and somehow
14:23I see that Belgrade and Serbia
14:25have a lot of potential
14:26in gastronomy and hospitality
14:29Of course, if it’s done properly
14:33And another part
14:35where I was confident, okay, gastronomically
14:37I know I’m good at that, that I handle
14:40all of that well, but I also needed a bit of that
14:42let’s say business side, operational side
14:44management side
14:45I needed to give that a try
14:47And you studied that?
14:48Well, I learned that too
14:50We'll come back to school later
14:53And somewhere I said, okay
14:55even though I really love
14:57fine dining, and that's something
14:59that's what I'm aiming for
15:02I have to
15:03start somewhere
15:04Start somewhere, and then slowly
15:06let's say, over time, to
15:09Work our way up in everything?
15:10Work our way up, exactly
15:12And I've always loved that New York
15:15breakfast
15:16their whole vibe
15:19breakfast in New York
15:20quick, in a sandwich
15:23in a bowl, whatever, in a million ways
15:25I’d say it’s such a great
15:27ingredient, it goes with everything
15:29Let me come up with something like that
15:30And for Belgrade
15:33Of course, you have to
15:35adapt it a bit to the market itself
15:37but still make it something interesting
15:39new, something people can come
15:41and try, something they can eat breakfast
15:43all day, not just
15:44from nine to twelve
15:47The best is like 11:05, no, no
15:49Just lunch
15:51No more eggs
15:52And there are no cappuccinos and no cappuccinos either
15:54We’ve hidden the eggs until tomorrow morning
15:57no more
15:58The hens didn’t lay enough
16:00But I have to tell you
16:03a historical fact that
16:05I found fascinating when I was a kid learning about it
16:08I don’t know if you remember
16:09from the old school in Gospodarska
16:11You know that back in the day in restaurants
16:13or rather, in restaurants too
16:14and especially in kafanas
16:16In the bar there was a glass display case
16:19those awful white bowls
16:21with a blue line
16:23full of boiled eggs
16:25And you could order, like
16:27a brandy, a small mineral water, a coffee
16:29and a boiled egg
16:30I don't know, I don't remember it
16:32but I've seen it somewhere, read about it
16:34And that was the gold standard back then
16:38because the egg
16:39was like one portion
16:41Great when that fifth brandy of the day
16:43starts catching up with you
16:46so you can recover and maybe keep drinking
16:48Because there was no giving up
16:50But that was literally the golden
16:52old tavern standard
16:54where you could order one or two boiled eggs
16:56to perk yourself up a bit, that kind of thing
16:58No bread, nothing. You just get some booze and goodbye
17:00Some evil tavern owners figured out
17:02a way to keep you there a little longer
17:04Like, I can't anymore, I'm hungry
17:06Someone, I'll tell you everything
17:07I'll tell you everything
17:08But look, to me it's somehow completely
17:12something we definitely need to do
17:13jedan retro partio
17:14where we'll roast a whole ox
17:16and serve boiled eggs as an aperitif
17:18We have no choice
17:20The aperitif is brandy
17:21And brandy and aperitif
17:24Don’t make me think of pork rinds and pickles
17:26Don’t get me carried away
17:29But that, for example, could be interesting to you
17:33We should dig into that history a bit
17:35But I remember it
17:37We’ve got the eggs
17:39But we have to find that retro bowl
17:43Whoever orders it gets coffee in the proper cup
17:47matched to it
17:50Unrelated to the story
17:51and unrelated to the topic
17:52but my love for history is a fascination, to be honest
17:55No, it’s a love for all of that
17:57At some point, I come across a story
17:59and I end up finding some cups
18:00that are from the 1984 Olympics
18:04Coffee cups
18:05And a few others that are something
18:07On one side, the Olympic crest
18:09On the other hand, the wolf
18:11To be entered into the record
18:12And a few more that are some kind of porcelain
18:15Yugoslavia, this and that, and so on
18:18And some gold rims
18:19And a couple of years ago I brought them to Koiba
18:20and said, “We’ve got enough for the two or three of us to drink coffee.”
18:23Man, you wouldn’t believe it
18:26It was like it was meant to be
18:27Look, there wasn’t any Grozental that would appeal to me that much
18:31Nema to grozentala
18:32An old-school story, a good one
18:33Yeah, but I’ll remind you
18:35A coffee cup made of super-thin porcelain
18:38Right, yeah, yeah, yeah
18:39Which is no longer the standard
18:41Now, because of espresso, all cups have to be thick
18:44porcelain and so on
18:45That was super-thin porcelain
18:47and when you drink from it, it’s really lovely
18:49It feels nice when you hold it to your lips
18:50Like a wine glass
18:52You get a nice glass when you hold it up to your lips
18:54It’s nice, you know
18:56These are things we mustn’t forget
19:00We grew up with that
19:01Reci mi, Aleksa
19:04what drew you to this restaurant-opening venture?
19:06Have you, I don’t want to say
19:09second-guessed yourself, for sure?
19:10No
19:11And your favorite restaurant?
19:13Yeah, I’m in hospitality
19:15What’s the most interesting thing?
19:19What’s the most fascinating thing
19:20you’ve actually seen
19:21that maybe you wouldn’t have imagined
19:23if you’d stayed just doing your own part of the job
19:25to be just a cook, to stay behind the counter
19:27and run the kitchen?
19:28Honestly, I think
19:30it’s mostly about working with people
19:31I realized that, like in any job
19:34I think in hospitality it’s pretty important
19:37that human factor
19:38meaning the people who work for you
19:40in the restaurant itself
19:42Because without them, you can’t
19:45survive at all
19:46Technology means nothing
19:48That’s right, technology means nothing
19:49the best dish in the world means nothing
19:51if that person can’t back you up
19:53To sell it, to serve it
19:56or whatever
19:58So that’s what taught me the most
19:59that kind of work with people
20:00to pass on my knowledge and my opinion
20:04to them
20:06So we can succeed together
20:07and show the brand, the concept, whatever it is
20:12to people and guests
20:13I realized that it’s really a shared project
20:15not just yours or theirs
20:16Exactly
20:17Lately
20:18I mean, I remember back then
20:21when I became old school
20:23When I was getting into hospitality
20:25and the restaurant business, there was a serious animosity
20:27between cooks and waiters
20:29They were always split into front and back
20:30That was always the story
20:32Do you think it is still like that today
20:33or do you think cooks, as the figure who actually carries
20:37the whole burden of the kitchen on their shoulders
20:38and all the burden of the guest coming in
20:41Do you think that is changing
20:42and should change, or should it stay that way?
20:44I think it is changing slowly
20:46and I think it should change
20:48That is why I said this restaurant in Sweden
20:49where I worked, I liked that
20:51that we were one team
20:53There’s no, as we say, I’m on the floor
20:55I’m in the kitchen, I do my thing, you do yours
20:58No, we’re a team, and together
21:00we can deliver a much better result
21:02than you can from the kitchen
21:03or you from the dining room
21:05I think that here
21:08it’s slowly changing
21:10Thankfully, there are a lot of young chefs now
21:12who are in some great restaurants
21:15and doing some great things
21:17So I think it’s all
21:18gradually changing
21:20It still takes time
21:21Well, of course, it took us a hundred years to get
21:24to where we were, so slowly
21:25It’ll take another hundred years for things to change
21:27Well, but it’s important, because you know
21:30if you think you’re the big star in the restaurant
21:33which is fine, now we’re talking
21:35from the positions of me being front of house and you being back of house
21:39I’ll never be able to convey
21:41that love you put onto the plate
21:43if I don’t truly believe in you
21:45And vice versa, like you said
21:47you can have the most high-quality, most complex dish in the world
21:49but if I just half-ass it out front, it’s not it
21:52But I think a lot of places
21:54without Belgrade
21:56and around the world, they still have
21:57that whole “I’m the superstar,”
21:59you’re all just my minions
22:01How you’re below me and you listen
22:03to me about what needs to be done
22:06Unfortunately, yes
22:07And there’s always that great recommendation
22:09you ask the waiter for a dish
22:12and they say, “This is great.”
22:14Sure, of course
22:16And then all your
22:19months of preparation
22:20creation, recipe development, tasting
22:22the kitchen and everything comes down to that
22:23That’s great
22:24Thank you for your trust
22:26I think the whole problem is that many of these people who
22:29are in the kitchen and are very serious chefs
22:31never really step out
22:33and make that nice leap
22:35to try doing something else
22:37To try to see the whole picture
22:38to try to understand what it’s like to work in a studio
22:40to try to understand what it’s like to do other things
22:43And then, in fact, they don’t have that breadth
22:45Yes, and that’s why I say, somewhere
22:47I understand my parents who
22:49I won’t say forced me
22:51to go to school
22:53because that is
22:55the college opened my eyes
22:57to those things
22:59to management, basically
23:01to working with people
23:02and of course later in those restaurants
23:04when I came to Italy to work
23:07I thought I was going to be a chef
23:09just because I knew how to handle
23:11salads and cold appetizers
23:14hot appetizers, cold appetizers
23:16and I wasn’t interested in anything else
23:17Someone else could do that
23:18That’s right, but I was going to be the chef
23:20and then there was a moment when I
23:23could move into the main kitchen to work
23:26but I’d have to go into pastry
23:29So, okay, that was a chance to move
23:32into the main kitchen
23:34you know, pastry
23:36I’ll figure something out, I don’t know, I’ll look it up online
23:38just to see how it’s done
23:40the first day, the stress starts right away
23:42Chief Pastry Chef
23:44I'm going to make a meringue
23:46temper the chocolate for me
23:48Ma’am, let’s not be disrespectful
23:50I respect you
23:51I work savory, where it’s like 10 grams of salt
23:5412 grams of salt, there it is
23:55here, if it says 10 grams of sugar
23:58it has to be 10 grams of sugar
24:00and then I was in Italy too
24:02from my time in Francescana, I realized
24:04To be the boss
24:06I really have to know my way around
24:08all the sections
24:10and all the segments
24:11as well as the dining room
24:13and wine
24:15So that I can say
24:16I’m there, now I know
24:19let’s do this together now
24:21let’s pass that knowledge on to you
24:23so that taught me a lot
24:26what your day looks like
24:28in an Osteria, for example
24:29or, you know, is it
24:30come on, I mean, what does your day look like
24:32and what does Massimo's day look like
24:34does he really get up at 4 a.m
24:36then ride his bike to the market and buy vegetables
24:39Massimo is
24:40slowly
24:42We're going to be right here
24:44he deserves to be
24:46I say, in Modena, you talk about
24:48three things
24:49It's Ferrari, Pavarotti and Massimo
24:52those are, I'd say
24:54so from his side
24:56he can come whenever he wants
24:57he really is a rock star there
24:59and as for my day at Francescana
25:02in the morning, of course, before work
25:04one little coffee at
25:06the café, let’s say, that was on my way
25:08to the restaurant
25:10and around nine
25:12prep for lunch
25:14lunch starts at 1:30
25:16now, when I was in the pastry section
25:18that was prep
25:20of small pastries, little cakes
25:22preparation depending on what we have
25:24that day, of course, we have
25:26let’s say a pre-service meeting
25:28so we know how many guests we have
25:31who our guests are, whether we have any allergies
25:33what we need to watch out for
25:35and then service starts at half past one
25:38until around three, three-thirty
25:39we had a short break
25:42between four and six
25:44that break turns into
25:46about an hour of yours
25:47by the time you get home
25:48and then at six, that’s it
25:51heading back to the restaurant
25:54we always had
25:55a pre-lunch service and a pre-dinner one
25:58family meal
25:58that we eat lunch and dinner together
26:01it was always some pasta
26:03always pasta and some salad
26:05let's say, in the last period
26:07I got a little sick of pasta
26:09look, after two months of working
26:11Skiing in Sardinia
26:13I was done with pasta for good
26:14every lunch was pasta
26:15every staff meal was dinner
26:19when I came back from Italy
26:20I was a bit like
26:21I could use a break from pasta
26:23for at least six months, I didn't want to see it in any form
26:26I really love eating pasta
26:28It gets a bit overwhelming
26:31And that’s it for dinner
26:33Dinner would end around 11
26:3511:30
26:36then back home
26:38Wait, so it’s like in those movies?
26:40and so on
26:43You watch Burn, and then, you know
26:44from 4:30 in the morning to 4:30 in the morning
26:46When do you fit it in, when do you have time for a cigarette, man?
26:48You always find the time
26:50We always have some
26:51Thank God, you always have a day off
26:53You always find some time
26:55especially if you have some colleagues who like that
26:58to find some time to sit down
27:00to the park, now it depends on the place
27:02had you gone
27:04through school and that whole story
27:06toward people who smoke
27:07who like cigars, who enjoy them
27:08I have, in Sweden, in France
27:11where I worked, one of the guys who worked in the dining room
27:14he was in charge of the small humidors
27:16that we had in the restaurant
27:17because in Sweden they're very strict
27:19about where you're allowed to smoke
27:22you can only do it in the lounge
27:23if you have some terrace that is part of
27:26very, very strict
27:27we were lucky to have a little terrace
27:30at the restaurant, and he was in charge of the humidor
27:32which was small, maybe 20 or 30 cigars
27:36better 20 or 30 than none
27:37exactly
27:40and that’s really where I bonded
27:42with him the most
27:43and whenever we had some time
27:45free, you could say
27:47we’d go to the park when the weather was still nice
27:50sit in the park and light up a cigar
27:52that was allowed; you couldn’t just light one in the street
27:54in a lounge it feels a bit
27:56kind of gloomy
27:57when you can take advantage of nice weather
28:00or sometimes we used the little terrace
28:02there in the restaurant when we found time
28:04after the shift, when all the guests had left
28:06we’d sit down a bit under the heat lamp
28:08and smoke a cigarette
28:10what fascinated me in Milan
28:12was when I discovered that
28:13Casa del Cabano u Milanu
28:16had a fridge in the shop
28:19with beer
28:20and a freezer with ice cream
28:23and the first thing that crossed my mind
28:25was
28:26when we opened Casa del Cabano in 2006
28:29in the city
28:30if someone had mentioned
28:32something like that
28:33I think they'd be burned at the stake
28:36In front, flambéran, cuantron or gran mariniel
28:39so it never crosses his mind again
28:41And I asked
28:43the owner said
28:44‘Go on,’ he said
28:45first he says
28:47the park is across the street, people buy everything they need
28:50go there and light a cigarette
28:52and that's our smoking lounge
28:54he says
28:56you'll see, he says, they have two benches in the park
28:57where there’s a big ashtray next to it
28:59there’s actually a huge ashtray there
29:01someone probably hauled it over from the park
29:04so it’s right there at hand
29:06the point is
29:07it’s about the cigar, it’s about enjoying it
29:09wherever you are, that’s how it is
29:12I really say in Sweden
29:13the park was our
29:16main meeting point
29:17for cigars
29:18you need some kind of stress relief
29:20and you actually realize and understand
29:22over time, that the hour we spend in the little park
29:25actually refreshes you
29:26and that what should matter matters to you
29:28so then you can go back again, another
29:30which is, realistically, the story
29:32and what about in between those two meals
29:35why would you go home if you live far away
29:37it doesn’t pay off
29:38better to sit in the little park
29:40in Sweden, cigarettes are insanely expensive
29:43if I’m not mistaken
29:44and what I recently learned
29:46that the Swedes banned
29:49Cuban cigars because of
29:51the founder of that investment fund
29:53who bought Freeport Capital
29:55and since he has a criminal past
29:57history, he was arrested
29:58they don't want to
29:59a few years ago, you know, Habanos
30:03was selling part of its story
30:04and it turned out to be some Chinese
30:07investment fund
30:09whose director was recently found
30:11on some lists where a person shouldn't be
30:14but I just don't get
30:15why they mix politics into cigars
30:17when, in the end, it's all
30:18just smoking
30:19and that's exactly
30:23and that's exactly
30:25when you feel like lighting one up?
30:27when do you find the time?
30:28well, I always try to
30:31smoke a cigar at least once every ten days
30:33I always say, I try to make sure it’s
30:35not like, oh, I have to smoke a cigar
30:37which is the most important thing
30:38because I really feel like smoking a cigar
30:43I want to make some time for myself
30:44just to relax a bit
30:46it’s a matter of timing
30:48and honestly, my best period was
30:50in Paris when I was studying
30:52because that was during COVID, during the pandemic
30:54we had a curfew there
30:56and there after six
30:57we also had that here
31:00what we had here
31:02wasn’t even close to what we had there in Paris
31:05that was after six there
31:07you couldn’t go anywhere
31:08then I’d open the little window in the apartment
31:11I had very close to my place
31:14The Whiskey Shop
31:17it was called Maison du Whisky
31:18shop
31:19so I’d go there and buy two or three whiskies
31:22and cigars, and that was my ritual
31:24every other day
31:25you can’t have a curfew the way I can
31:27here I am, opening the little window
31:29I’d smoke a cigar and look out the window, enjoying myself
31:32that was
31:34It's a classic restart
31:35but in the end
31:37it all comes down to the fact that it doesn’t matter who does what
31:40or what they do
31:41it’s the cigar that really
31:44somehow connects us, and that’s what
31:45those are the kinds of moments you remember for a lifetime
31:50I’m sure that
31:51besides those interesting stories
31:54from your
31:56restaurant journey
31:58around the world, or rather your gastronomic
31:59as you more correctly called it
32:01there’s definitely some moment
32:05that you’d maybe single out
32:06when it comes to cigars
32:08and when you had the chance to sit with some people
32:10and enjoy cigars
32:11all those people carry their own stories
32:13and acts of selflessness
32:15is there anything you remember
32:16I’d say, here in Belgrade
32:19quite a few friends
32:22we have that in common
32:23okay, we all work in different industries
32:26but still, cigars bring us together
32:28and we find time to sit down
32:30once a week
32:31once every two weeks
32:32it depends on the time
32:33we sit for an hour or so
32:35to smoke a cigar
32:39a little something
32:40a little something
32:44depending on who can make it
32:46and how much time they can spare
32:48but that time
32:50and besides that
32:52I’d say the people who come out
32:53there’s always someone else who drops by
32:55and sits down with us
32:56you talk, and you never know where it’ll lead
32:58getting to know someone new
33:00you never know where that story will end up
33:03exactly
33:03all those topics are usually easygoing, light, and cheerful
33:05there’s no
33:06no heavy topics there
33:09I don’t think there are any heavy topics
33:12right
33:14I'm A Celebrity
33:15but then again
33:16those are different
33:19we recently had a little group
33:21people around your age
33:23six or seven of them
33:24who were kind of
33:26we know them from this world of ours
33:28they contacted Zdravko and me
33:30for a shared experience
33:33to make one special cigar
33:36and that’s all happening now
33:37then some more people came
33:39it’s not a classic promotion or presentation
33:41it’s more that we sit together and everyone lights the same cigar
33:43and we just have a light conversation
33:46and at one point
33:46I’m talking with Bomko, who organized all this
33:49he says, great, I’ve got another one
33:51I say well well
33:52we’ll light a different cigar
33:54I say we can do it spontaneously
33:56so someone can light whatever they want
33:57No, no, please not like that
33:58Because when we come spontaneously
34:00then someone just sets aside 30 minutes, lights a small cigar, and runs off
34:03No, no, please, let everyone smoke the same cigar
34:04And let it be there for, like, a certain amount of time
34:06You know?
34:09No, no, don’t give someone an option now
34:11to light a small cigar and then have to leave, who knows where
34:14You set aside the time
34:15You know it’s
34:17a process that takes some time
34:21Above all, through some nice stories
34:23It's a beautiful moment
34:24but the fact is that really
34:26specifically at that event
34:29I, for example, that cigar
34:31probably would never have smoked
34:32if I hadn’t lit it on that occasion
34:35since the format is a bit impressive
34:378 x 80
34:393 hours
34:41they set aside the time
34:43good
34:43but everyone was ready for it
34:45nobody was in a hurry
34:47I went straight from the wine fair
34:49where I was working on something
34:50I left the fair so I could get there on time
34:52because I knew it couldn’t be like when I just show up
34:55I had to be there at five because
34:57I know what’s waiting for us
34:58that’s a seriously heroic cigar
35:02the American approach to cigars
35:03yeah, yeah
35:05American
35:05what is Texas, Lanzarova
35:09well, Texas is all big
35:11what can you do
35:13the alcohol we have times
35:14when I sit down with friends
35:16and everyone takes a different cigar format
35:18but still, we’re there, sitting together
35:20maybe I finish my cigar before he does
35:22but nobody is rushing anywhere
35:25you set aside the time
35:26and for a cigar, and for that little get-together
35:29right, all of it
35:30there’s less and less time for hanging out
35:33and socializing, and everything else
35:34everyone’s crazy, everyone’s in a rush
35:35everyone’s busy with something
35:36but we always enjoy it anyway
35:38now is the time
35:41somehow you’ve stepped out of your own
35:43crazy world
35:44you came out, lit a cigar
35:45grabbed a drink
35:47whatever each person likes
35:50at the end of the day
35:52that’s just indulging yourself
35:55That's what
35:56very often
35:57Milo and I are here
36:01What should I drink
36:03with this cigarette
36:04What do you feel like drinking
36:06no matter how much that philosophy exists
36:09I don’t know, pairings
36:10of food and wine
36:13if I want to drink something
36:15I’ll drink it, even if it’s all wrong
36:17same here
36:18that individual approach is a good thing
36:21just like in gastronomy
36:22gastronomy 100 years ago and today
36:24is definitely drastically different
36:25back then, there were some things you had to
36:27because someone once said
36:29some professor or teacher
36:31would tell you, this is how you have to do it
36:33okay, I don't know if he was actually eating ants
36:36and so on, like our colleagues do
36:39And then there was Alexander
36:41he had a snail on the table
36:42no, that’s true, I was at Noma
36:45just a few months ago now
36:47about Noma, it was kind of interesting to come
36:48different
36:49that’s really an experience for a lifetime
36:52once, I was there now
36:54I really had that privilege
36:56three months ago, in October, to be
36:58there, to have lunch together
37:00it was a real experience
37:01it is completely different
37:03because their approach is
37:04something you might not eat
37:07they’ll find a way to put it on your plate
37:09whatever it is
37:10one dish was snails
37:13so, classic flavors
37:15that you’d normally eat with snails
37:18parsley, garlic, butter
37:19everything that goes with it
37:20but the service itself was
37:22let's say in a tall glass
37:25where the top part was eaten
37:27and they put on my plate
37:29a live snail that was crawling
37:32around the plate
37:34while I was eating that dish
37:35I mean, that
37:37would never occur to anyone
37:39it meant something to you
37:40I believe it didn't really mean much
37:41to the others at the table
37:42I don't want to eat this dish, okay
37:47can the animal just go away
37:48but that is gastronomy, I think
37:51it's a creative job
37:55and you can do whatever you want
37:57It's just a welcome
37:58the way we get in the way
38:01gastro used to be about hunger
38:02what was French cuisine like
38:03when you had to
38:05turn something into something else
38:07and to go back to history
38:11you had to get people to
38:12da jedu tatra beefsteak u Srbiji
38:13and cut into meat
38:15and now you have a live burger
38:16yes
38:18so let’s see where we were
38:21where we are now
38:21but that’s just another one of those gastronomic trends
38:24that are happening
38:26we’ve come to a point where
38:28A Spanish woman in Smederevo makes a set of buns
38:31because she was fascinated by that veal
38:32I saw that recently on some social media
38:34it’s called
38:34A Spaniard
38:36I don’t know
38:39a girl who makes komplet lepinja
38:43and of course you also have
38:45the chef’s personal touch
38:46that’s also the case with jamón ibérico
38:48but look
38:51that’s fine with me
38:52a moment ago, Alex said
38:53in Sweden, you have that influence of Japanese cuisine
38:56that fusion is something that's totally normal today
38:59back then, you wouldn't even think about it
39:02back then, you knew in Serbia
39:03what, are we gonna light up if it’s not a Cuban cigar
39:06let me put that aside too, and soak it
39:08when you see where we are now
39:10yeah, exactly
39:11those are trends
39:12that's getting familiar with new trends
39:14and you should
39:15you try it, see whether you like it or not
39:18and you divide cigars into the New World and the Old World
39:21or you just prefer one or the other
39:23Well, I don’t have a preference
39:25I like both
39:27Sometimes there’s an evening
39:28when I feel like smoking a Cuban
39:31Sometimes it’s the New World
39:33I mean, even today
39:34my favorite cigar is the Oliva Lancero
39:36It was also the first cigar I ever smoked
39:39with Zdravko in my first lesson
39:41So that’s still
39:44The most popular cigar
39:45But still, always
39:46you know what else?
39:47A Lancero takes love
39:49It’s a cigar that simply
39:50either you like it or you don’t
39:52the first format
39:52thin long cigar
39:54and a couple of gold spurs
39:57we have that in rock ’n’ roll heritage
40:00or rather in the heritage of the New Wave
40:02music, but
40:03for example, what’s interesting about the Lanceros
40:05is that some other neighboring countries
40:09either don’t have Oliva Lanceros
40:11or they simply
40:13don’t ask for it there
40:15we’re kind of hooked on it here
40:17we love it
40:19I have to admit that for me
40:20There was work on the culture of everything
40:22It’s not like nothing was done
40:2320–25 years
40:25It’s not like nothing was done
40:28That comes with time
40:32Just like aspic
40:32Aspic comes with age
40:35I know, man, but those are the best collagen cubes in the world
40:38When after forty you start creaking
40:40Your joints
40:40Collagen is seriously needed
40:43to call them collagen cubes
40:44They’d be 30 euros a cube
40:45So the secret is, like, 2 euros
40:49Nice to see
40:50Yeah, we were talking about
40:52fine dining
40:54Do you feel like
40:55I somehow have the impression
40:57that
40:59fine dining has kind of
41:02taken a bit of a back seat and that we’ve returned
41:04to some primal dishes
41:06that are just interpreted differently
41:08well, yes and no
41:10I suppose that’s true
41:11but I’m interested in your professional opinion on that
41:14there is
41:15it depends a lot
41:18on the chef and which path they decided
41:21to go
41:22I keep coming back to the fact that
41:25in my opinion, Serbia has
41:26huge potential
41:28and fine dining as something highly creative
41:31where you can explore
41:32everything from the ingredients themselves
41:33to the actual dishes we have
41:35traditional ones, which you can
41:37interpret in all kinds of ways
41:39through molecular gastronomy
41:41or just through a modern approach
41:43using the ingredients we have
41:45so I think that there
41:47people have now started coming back a bit
41:49kafanas
41:51the checkered tablecloths
41:52below standard
41:54so that’s also kind of good, alongside it
41:57the fine dining that’s here now
41:59I won’t say it’s getting more and more popular
42:01more popular, but somehow people
42:03are becoming more and more aware of
42:05that whole world of fine dining
42:07and with Michelin’s arrival
42:09and Gault&Millau
42:10and some, let’s say
42:13The Young World of Chefs
42:15who have now taken over some restaurants
42:17or opened their own restaurants
42:18and show
42:21Serbia
42:22and our ingredients in their own way
42:25which is nice to see
42:27I’d say. To continue, it’s very important
42:29all those people you mention are young people
42:31who had the chance
42:32and the courage to go somewhere
42:34to spend some time there and then come back
42:36I think that’s the right path for anyone
42:38who works in hospitality, hotel management, or gastronomy
42:40you have to see something, you have to experience it
42:43you have to see how it’s done somewhere else
42:44and of course, you don’t just have to
42:46come to Belgrade and try to make
42:48to make something in Serbia, but you need to work
42:51to pull the best out of it
42:53I mean, those trips
42:55and discovering other cultures
42:57and cuisines
42:59help shape you as a person
43:01you see what interests you
43:03and then if you come back to Belgrade
43:05or wherever
43:05and open something of your own, you create your own stamp
43:08through all that path
43:11you went through
43:12So I think if you have the chance
43:14to go abroad
43:16to work there or just to experience it
43:18that culture
43:19will definitely help you with that
43:22Just make you richer later?
43:23Yes
43:23Are you in favor of that approach
43:26that the head chef
43:28the person in charge, the head
43:30of the restaurant or tavern
43:31should create the menu
43:33or the food offering
43:35based on personal preferences
43:37or based on market needs?
43:38Well, that’s something I
43:41realized through experience, that you have to find
43:43something in between
43:45Okay, you need to show your own signature
43:47Or, okay, I know I work in
43:50gastronomy
43:51I know flavors, I know how to balance flavors
43:53but still you have to see
43:54what suits the guest themselves
43:56Because if it doesn’t suit the guest
43:58and they can’t understand it, they won’t come back to you
44:02they won’t come back, and your
44:03creation is wasted
44:05if they couldn’t make sense of it
44:07You just have to find some middle ground
44:09let me show you
44:11my way, but so you understand it
44:14and then you’ll
44:16You’ll understand it quickly
44:17It is more difficult to work in Belgrade
44:19because of the city’s
44:23culture and economy
44:24and everything Belgrade has
44:25compared to any other country
44:28to Italy, to France
44:30I think it is harder
44:31but in a way it’s also interesting
44:33because you’re there
44:35as kind of, let’s say
44:37a teacher
44:39A mediator between the market
44:41and trends
44:42You’re there to teach that guest a little
44:45into some new things, into some new experiences
44:47so they can discover them. Of course, if it’s
44:49a good product and you
44:51present it to them in a nice way
44:53they’ll definitely get it
44:54and come back
44:57And as much as it may be
44:59harder than somewhere abroad
45:00to do that here, I think it’s a little more interesting
45:03It’s okay somehow
45:05every day you have to make a little more effort
45:07to present that dish to someone
45:09So that they
45:10When I started with eggs
45:13it’s a sandwich with eggs
45:15Now you need to explain to our
45:19average consumer
45:20that this is
45:21something they already eat on a plate
45:23Eggs, bacon, cheese, and bread
45:25It’s just that you put
45:28Come on, try it
45:29If you like it
45:31then you can try the one with mortadella
45:33which was inspired by
45:35Antoni Bordena
45:36and my time spent in Italy
45:40Start with this one
45:41Let's move on to Mortadella
45:43Then over time you can move on
45:44and on a chicken sandwich
45:46which is totally different
45:48It’s some kind of fusion of French cuisine
45:51but I’m not going to explain it to you like that
45:52Come on, start with this one
45:54and we’ll easily get to this level
45:57So I think that it is
45:58even though, let’s say
46:00basically a simplified concept
46:03still, you have it every day
46:04and now you need to explain to him
46:06that this isn’t a classic breakfast
46:09But try it, and you’ll like it
46:12Clamp down and try it
46:13and you’ll see you’ll leave smiling
46:14That’s right
46:16It was the same with carpaccio
46:18when it appeared in Belgrade
46:19And this is raw
46:23We kind of survived
46:25survivors
46:26and then carpaccio showed up
46:28Well, I think it happened to everyone
46:29that Karpac came a little later
46:33ali Tatar biftek
46:33I mean, you’re older than me in the business
46:36I remember it from way back
46:37at Hyatt and so on
46:39Wait, but this is raw
46:40so maybe this will cook
46:42And now I don’t need to go
46:44I'd like to ask the chef
46:46but maybe it’ll cook through
46:47That’s that gap between the kitchen and service
46:51In the end, you still have to please the guest
46:53What gap?
46:54Man, I can’t go in there
46:55turn around and come back
46:57and say it’s overcooked
46:58And that’s a kind of art
47:01to host your guest
47:04but still somehow
47:06bring it closer to them
47:07To give them what they actually want
47:08So they think you gave them what they actually wanted
47:12but you still gave him
47:14what it’s really about
47:15Or some dish, your own product, that you made
47:18It happens to me a lot
47:19someone comes and says, I’d just like eggs and bacon
47:22Okay, we have that option
47:25You give them some sandwich
47:26with a salad we have
47:28as an option
47:30Instead of bread, we give you salad
47:31Everything that comes in the sandwich
47:33you just make it happen
47:35Something we adapted is to say
47:37to our market
47:38They go and say these sauces are good
47:41I say, you’re crazy, but try it next time
47:43when you come back with bread, trust me
47:45everything changes
47:46And then the next time
47:47You have to take it slow; you can’t
47:51We can’t push boundaries
47:53that easily. Those boundaries have to be
47:55pushed little by little
47:57And the nicest thing is that the one who was
47:59most skeptical comes back the next day with friends
48:01to try it, to see what it is
48:02Those are the people who literally become promoters of the concept
48:05They’re your brand ambassadors and volunteers
48:08Of course, when someone once
48:09tries something and trusts you once
48:11that it’s actually good
48:12You’ve earned their trust
48:15And that’s probably the nicest form
48:17of restaurant marketing
48:18That kind of honesty when a guest brings
48:21someone new and says, yes, trust me
48:22give it a try, you’ll like it
48:23Well, one of the best in the business
48:24Yes, word of mouth
48:26What would you call it?
48:27Do you think that today, in a time
48:30when social media is what it is
48:32and when it’s, I wouldn’t say the most important
48:34but a very large and important
48:36part of the marketing anyone of us
48:39work for the job they do
48:40social media and all that
48:44Do you think
48:46that at the moment when chefs become
48:48superstars and start becoming more
48:49media personalities than actually spending time in the kitchen
48:53do you think they
48:54will completely replace that old-school approach
48:56where the chef is constantly
48:58at the stove, greasy
49:00yelling, throwing pans
49:02shouting, and so on?
49:03Expensive pans, like throwing pans
49:06Yeah, for sure, for sure
49:07That’s all changing, but I still think that in the end
49:10At the end of the day, a chef
49:12no matter how much of a superstar he becomes
49:14is still in the kitchen
49:16He will always be in the kitchen
49:17He'll keep creating those dishes
49:19with his team
49:21or alone, but most of the time
49:22he's with the team. He'll still create
49:25his own vision
49:27Will you show that on social media?
49:31In my opinion
49:32at least when it comes to gastronomy
49:33you can promote
49:35yourself on Instagram, TikTok
49:37wherever you want. If your product isn't good
49:40The plates, in the end
49:41are the proof
49:42Right, I believe all the, all the serious chefs
49:45I mean, you know that much better than we do
49:46all the serious chefs
49:47and the really, really serious chefs
49:50are just deeply in love with what they do
49:52And he couldn’t do it any other way
49:53I think what people see
49:56as, I wouldn’t say aggressive
49:58as craziness, is really just
50:01the inability to
50:02channel emotions in the moment
50:05Because he truly lives all of it
50:07Passion
50:09Passion, love
50:10Well, maybe he
50:11But it’s not just with chefs
50:13Every job is like that
50:15Sure, I mean
50:17maybe I’m a little old school
50:19maybe I’m a little mature
50:20and to me it’s somehow normal
50:22That’s easy to film
50:24I wouldn’t say normal, but to me it’s kind of okay now
50:26that we’re talking about moments when
50:30I go in for the first or second time
50:31into the hotel kitchen
50:33in London where I worked
50:35I’m walking from the bar to pastry and through
50:37through the kitchen
50:39And I see, without naming names
50:40one of the most serious chefs
50:42I ever had the chance to work with
50:45the guy picks up
50:46a pan from
50:48the burner, from the stove
50:50and shouts
50:52What is this? It was normal to everyone
50:55And a very serious
50:56fine dining restaurant in downtown
50:58in downtown London
51:00But then you actually realize
51:02where I come from
51:04in terms of understanding
51:05how people work with him
51:07If you’re yelling
51:08because you’re barking at me and pushing me around
51:10and I’m wondering how I’m supposed to work with him
51:12Then you realize that the others there too
51:13like that whole, I won’t call it an approach
51:16they’re not masochists, but they like that
51:18whole thing they do
51:19And then he actually just explodes in the moment
51:22because he doesn’t know how to handle emotion
51:24but after the shift they’re all out for beers
51:26and then we’re all good
51:28That’s it, the moment
51:30Then we go back, like after a smoke
51:31it’s just the moment that matters
51:32And I think maybe it was even better that he did that
51:35than if he had ruined
51:36the next ten years
51:38Because in the end
51:41just like with surgeons
51:43you need a calm mind
51:44and a steady hand
51:46That’s what makes every job
51:49what it is, I’d say
51:50Take rollers, for example
51:52How many times have you come across a cigar
51:54rolled by
51:56a nervous roller?
51:57You can tell when he’s having a bad day
51:59He doesn’t need to say a word
52:01But okay, we forgive him
52:04and that’s that
52:05Just like with a chef
52:07But still, stress, stress in the kitchen
52:09people who haven’t been through it
52:11They can't imagine
52:12how much stress there is in that moment
52:15You live that life
52:17you’re in the kitchen
52:18You can explain it
52:19through stories
52:21but you can’t explain
52:23the whole day, how it went for you
52:25what kinds of stress you went through
52:28this wasn’t done right
52:29so now you have to
52:31change it right away
52:34Okay, but if we’re being honest
52:36popular culture has turned to that too
52:38In the past
52:39fifteen years or so
52:42maybe a year or two more
52:43so many films
52:45have been made
52:47About the cooks
52:50about how you develop
52:52how you go from some
52:54little cook
52:55to, in a while, you’re
52:57One of my favorites
53:00movies when we talk
53:01about gastronomy, it’s Ratatouille
53:04As much as it’s a cartoon
53:05and okay, kids like it because it’s animated
53:07but once you’re a bit older and you watch that movie
53:09you actually realize
53:10there’s an incredible amount of emotion in it
53:14Because my favorite scene is
53:16the one where that food critic
53:18the evil one, comes in, and when
53:19that poor little cook tells him
53:21I’d like to make you Ratatouille
53:23like, come on, man
53:26You know, a vegetable stew
53:27But when he tasted the vegetable stew
53:29colors in your mind
53:32the smell of home
53:33mom standing at the door
53:35of home, and so on
53:36And that’s what the brain actually remembers so well
53:39in its subconscious. Those are the little
53:41subtle sensitivities that make you
53:43happy. And when you recognize that on a plate
53:46you know, there’s no
53:48it can’t be missing
53:49it’s an impression that
53:51stays with you for life
53:52And that’s what we all look for, what we often connect
53:55with cigars too when we talk to people, especially
53:57those who are like, well, in cigars, hold on
53:59dude, that what reminds you of this or that
54:01is actually just
54:03a story, which is the point
54:05of it all, and the real story
54:07Because that’s what draws you to it
54:10Very often
54:11the whole thing comes down to
54:13that aroma and all that
54:15I’m very strict about that
54:16I tell people, never
54:18talk in advance about the aroma
54:20of a cigar. It’s simple
54:23I recommend you a cigar
54:25and say, now you’re going to notice, I don’t know
54:27cocoa, and in the finish
54:29you’re going to taste some red
54:30pepper. A person smokes a cigar
54:32doesn’t stay with it; they stop engaging with it
54:35And that’s a big mistake
54:36Don’t influence them. Right, because then you give them false hope, you give them a false
54:38impression that something will happen that they
54:41don’t actually experience
54:42And then we lose that person forever
54:45Same thing with
54:46pairing, like, this cigar is great
54:48and then there’s that single malt
54:50Well, I don’t drink whiskey, so I’m not going to smoke that
54:52I’ll smoke something else
54:53The food story you mentioned
54:55okay, you can’t force someone to try something you think is good
54:59but you work with them, little by little, little by little
55:01Tell me, interesting
55:02I want to hear your opinion. What is
55:06more challenging
55:07to work and lead
55:08I mean, talking about the head chef position?
55:11A fine dining restaurant that already
55:12has things, let’s say
55:15defined in advance
55:16defined ahead of time, where you have lunch
55:18where you have dinner, where you know exactly who’s coming to you
55:21you said a little earlier, this
55:22your day at Francescana, we all know
55:24and from my experience
55:26working in some restaurants, you
55:28you already know who’s coming today, so you know
55:30what their, uh, preferences are—like, Zdravko is coming, uh
55:32last time it was like this, like this
55:34that part, or working in a restaurant
55:36where it’s, you know, classic lunch and dinner
55:39where you have a certain number of people
55:40And then we'll go a la carte
55:42look at this, look at this. Well, I mean
55:44both sides are
55:46equally crazy. Yeah
55:48In their own way. Because, okay
55:50with fine dining
55:52you have that somewhere organized, you know
55:54so it all runs smoothly, you know when lunch starts
55:56you know when dinner starts
55:58but the level of the dish is much
56:00higher than
56:02à la carte
56:03But, then again, I
56:05have the same approach, whether I’m making
56:08that sandwich with me at EGZ
56:09or making some dish
56:11For the sake of France
56:14or it has to be
56:15at the highest level. If this needs
56:17to have bacon in the sandwich
56:19crispy, it has to be crispy
56:21There’s no excuse for it not to be. No excuse
56:22You can’t call it crispy if it isn’t... Exactly
56:24Now, it is true that there’s that side where it can happen
56:27that it doesn't flare up, especially since we
56:29don't take reservations at EGZ, so we don't know
56:31when it's going to get busy
56:33but it happens. But still, you make sure that product
56:35is the same every time
56:37Whether there's one person sitting in the place
56:39or twenty people in the place
56:41You always make sure that quality
56:44that we
56:45so to speak, the one people
56:47know us for and recognize us by, stays always
56:49at the same level
56:51So I mean, both are
56:53difficult in their own way
56:55I mean, and carefully
56:57Choose your madness. Yes. Now, of course
56:59in fine dining restaurants, you always
57:00have on the plate
57:03more components than you have
57:05u à la carte
57:07But still, the approach is the same
57:09That sauce has to be
57:11good today and tomorrow
57:12and the day after. In a fine dining
57:15restaurant and à la carte restaurant
57:18But the checkered tablecloth
57:19or the silk one doesn’t change a thing
57:21Exactly. Now, for me in à la carte
57:23that beef tartare I make, I have to
57:25season it every time
57:27I mean, same thing. It has to be
57:29seasoned properly
57:30That doesn't change anything. Right
57:32Then we get to the point where at Padua Market
57:35one of the most popular things is steak tartare
57:37Yeah, exactly. So, kind of
57:39And ten years ago, if someone
57:41had told you you'd go to the market to eat
57:42they'd say you were crazy
57:45Like something was wrong with you
57:46It's great to see those new trends, which is okay
57:48Yeah, that's it. I mean, those are the trends
57:51that, thank God, over time
57:53are coming here too
57:53And the market trends
57:56food markets, and fine dining
57:58restaurants—all of that is coming
58:00here too, slowly
58:01And that, I think, is a good sign
58:03for Belgrade and Serbia, that things are
58:05moving in a good direction
58:08Where do you see the development
58:10of the gastronomic scene going next?
58:11What do you think will be the next
58:13big thing? I mean, we’re all aware
58:16that trends change and that they last
58:17for a certain number of years, so to speak
58:19for a certain period of time, and then they come back to this again
58:21Now we have the kafana, which we just mentioned
58:23The kafana is, as a concept
58:25a modern story, again
58:26I like that, because I think foreigners
58:30come for something authentic
58:31Yes, they do
58:32It feels kind of silly to take foreigners to sushi in Belgrade
58:35Especially foreigners who come to Belgrade
58:37they really came all the way here and see something
58:39authentic, exactly
58:41And there’s nothing better than a kafana
58:43where you can show not just the food
58:45but also the culture of Serbia
58:47Belgrade, the music
58:49the drinking
58:52the socializing
58:54because we really are a social people and nation
58:56And through gastronomy, I say
58:58our cuisine is very rich
59:00Through history, from the Turks onward
59:03We really have
59:03And also influences from everywhere
59:05That’s right
59:06So foreigners would love to come
59:09and try something new, and that something new
59:11It's our national cuisine
59:13which is very good and tasty
59:16and completely different
59:17from anything they’ve tried
59:18somewhere else
59:21What do you think about the trends and concepts
59:23being used, like I know they do
59:25And Renner, Jeppi and the rest of the team
59:27and some of our own chefs
59:29to use only ingredients
59:30from our region?
59:32I think there’s nothing better
59:34than to use food
59:35that’s fresh and local to you
59:38Whether it’s pike perch or catfish
59:41Is that an apple from Sumadija?
59:43Is it a truffle from Fruska above?
59:45Why use something that comes to you
59:48from who knows where
59:50when you can use
59:52a fresh ingredient right there?
59:54That’s why I don’t like sandwiches with avocado
59:57Yes
59:58And it's not him, it's not him
59:59Onaj Miljakovički avocado
1:00:00it’s a different one
1:00:01The Avengers used to be an avocado
1:00:04but somehow, you know, it didn’t sell much
1:00:08It won’t make it through concrete
1:00:09It won’t make it through concrete
1:00:11No, I don’t mean that, I’m saying
1:00:12there’s nothing better than fresh ingredients
1:00:15whatever they are
1:00:16Whether it’s meat, fish, vegetables, or fruit
1:00:19Especially if it’s in season
1:00:21I don't know, in the summer
1:00:22why use tomatoes in summer
1:00:25that you don't use tomatoes in winter
1:00:26How did that big world chef get started with it first?
1:00:28It was René who first really started
1:00:31I mean, not to use a heavy word
1:00:32but he was really fanatical about it
1:00:34that it absolutely had to be
1:00:35Well, I think it started even before him
1:00:38Okay, there was some molecular
1:00:40gastronomy trend around the 2000s
1:00:42and then, let’s say, there was
1:00:45But let’s say
1:00:46that Nordic cuisine trend
1:00:48actually local cuisine
1:00:51started with him, let’s say
1:00:53And then a lot of chefs jumped on it
1:00:56There's a lot of cooks
1:00:57not just from that region
1:00:58but from other countries too
1:00:59Let’s do the same
1:01:02local, only local
1:01:03There’s a good documentary about him
1:01:04I don’t know who’s seen it
1:01:05who hasn’t, should watch it
1:01:07I don’t know if you had the chance to see
1:01:09where he was saying something and then says
1:01:10like, yeah, people
1:01:11I mean, I got a Michelin two days after I opened the restaurant
1:01:15They had what, a restaurant for 7–8 years
1:01:17and they were already actually recognized on the world stage
1:01:19and then the boom started
1:01:20and then the explosion started
1:01:21Yes, but you actually needed 7-8 years of work
1:01:24and believing in something and giving it 100%
1:01:27for it to end up that way
1:01:29Which I think is generally
1:01:30the core of hospitality
1:01:33in general, if we don’t separate the kitchen
1:01:35from the bar or anything else
1:01:37So you can explore what you actually do
1:01:39and what you believe in
1:01:41And we just need to give it time
1:01:45I’ll open now
1:01:46and in two months I’m
1:01:48super zvezda
1:01:49You’re not at zero after two months
1:01:51You didn’t factor in the earnings
1:01:52How not?
1:01:54How is that possible?
1:01:56And two coffees
1:01:5811 dinars on the coffee cost
1:02:00so that’s times, times, times
1:02:02and let’s open a coffee shop
1:02:03The best business plan is on a napkin
1:02:06That means you’re a sucker
1:02:08So what, today we sell 200 portions of food
1:02:10what’s that on average with drinks?
1:02:12About 15,000
1:02:15You’re good, for sure
1:02:16all by yourself, every day
1:02:18For a month
1:02:20The only thing that gets forgotten a little
1:02:21is inventory, and that gets forgotten a little
1:02:23depreciation gets forgotten a little
1:02:25electricity, and people cut corners
1:02:27After about 3-4 months
1:02:29that was supposed to be some kind of reality
1:02:31Yeah, yeah
1:02:32The extra part I was supposed to have
1:02:35The extra part with the napkins
1:02:36Oh, packaging
1:02:38What packaging?
1:02:40A guy makes cardboard boxes
1:02:42for 30 dinars
1:02:44How long has EGS been around?
1:02:46EGS is going to turn two this April
1:02:48Two years, yes
1:02:50In those first few months
1:02:53did you have the idea that everything would go
1:02:56smoothly, or did you
1:02:58at some point
1:02:59assume there would be ups and downs
1:03:01like I imagine there were?
1:03:02I assumed there would be ups and downs
1:03:05Of course, I believed in the product itself
1:03:06I knew that what we were going to
1:03:09serve would be good food
1:03:11Now, my main concern was
1:03:13to say
1:03:15I wasn't sure how many people
1:03:16would understand the concept itself
1:03:18He was like, okay, now we just have an egg sandwich
1:03:21What is this guy doing?
1:03:22And it's also a bun, a burger bun
1:03:25Right in the middle of the burger trend in Belgrade
1:03:27they think we have a burger
1:03:28Those aren’t burgers, those are sandwiches
1:03:30Now try explaining that it isn’t
1:03:32There’s a difference, that’s all there is to it
1:03:34Or it's a bun, a burger bun
1:03:37I said, it’s not a burger bun
1:03:39A bun, okay, whatever, it doesn’t matter
1:03:41That was just
1:03:43how
1:03:44the most important thing for me was that people understood the concept
1:03:47I know the product is good
1:03:48Let's slowly
1:03:50introduce people to the concept
1:03:52And of course, I say, when I look at the menu
1:03:54from day one when it was only sandwiches
1:03:57and coffee and fresh-squeezed orange juice
1:03:59to the menu we have now
1:04:00we've added bowls
1:04:02and some toasts and porridges
1:04:06That's also that kind of
1:04:07let's say, a growth path
1:04:09for the brand
1:04:10to become successful
1:04:13actually, to
1:04:13be recognized
1:04:15Still, we still sell the most egg sandwiches
1:04:18But you also have those other options to
1:04:20open things up a bit more for people
1:04:22And food habits have changed
1:04:26Twenty years ago
1:04:28if I said you were
1:04:28vegetarian, they would say
1:04:30oh, you’re in a cult
1:04:32It’s not a cult anymore
1:04:34And not to mention that
1:04:37thanks to Djokovic, it’s no longer shameful
1:04:38to eat gluten-free
1:04:41In a way, that probably
1:04:43Becomes normal
1:04:45I can’t call it
1:04:46some kind of ordinary normality
1:04:47That already existed before
1:04:48But you mentioned dietary restrictions a bit earlier
1:04:51Allergies, that whole
1:04:53People used to hide that
1:04:54When you, like me, ask whether someone has an allergy
1:04:56I'm in pain
1:04:57Yeah, there was just this moment when people
1:05:02I think there was a time
1:05:03I can’t say it was shameful to tell someone
1:05:05that you were allergic to something and so on
1:05:07Today, it’s become more acceptable
1:05:09Which is fine
1:05:10Why would anyone have to hide some condition
1:05:12or their own views?
1:05:14I have allergies too
1:05:16I can’t really do that
1:05:18Now I choose to be allergic
1:05:20I’m allergic to cashews
1:05:23Of all nuts, it had to be those
1:05:24So we’ll never
1:05:25We’ll never see cashews at EGZ
1:05:27For example
1:05:29Did it ever happen to you in those two years
1:05:32Did you ever have those moments
1:05:33when you just feel like giving up?
1:05:34What do I need this for, man?
1:05:36Yeah, I’ve had those periods
1:05:37It happens
1:05:38We talked about ups and downs
1:05:40That’s the down part
1:05:43Well, it happens
1:05:44But you always look at, I’d say
1:05:46the brighter side, in another direction
1:05:49You see that tomorrow will be better
1:05:52You light up a cigarette for the occasion
1:05:54And you burn off everything you’ve
1:05:56For those moments, a cigarette is good therapy
1:05:58A cigarette is good therapy
1:05:59for any moment
1:06:01when you need to close yourself off somewhere
1:06:03and think things over
1:06:04You give yourself a little time
1:06:05you give yourself an hour, an hour and a half
1:06:07and then everything looks different
1:06:08When things calm down a bit, when some story passes
1:06:11A kind of therapy
1:06:13Where do you see EGO in the future?
1:06:15I mean, a franchise
1:06:16The hundredth location, the thousandth location
1:06:18Easy, one step at a time
1:06:19But I’m moving toward it being some kind of franchise
1:06:23I’d like it to first grow a bit here in Belgrade
1:06:25at a few locations
1:06:27Then we’ll see where it goes from there
1:06:29Wouldn’t you return to fine dining kitchens anymore?
1:06:31I’d love to go back to fine dining
1:06:33That, I’d say, is a love
1:06:35I don’t want to forget
1:06:37But when the time is right
1:06:40to go back to it
1:06:41For now, what I’m doing
1:06:43I’m happy where I am
1:06:45Come on, you could do some fine dining dinner
1:06:47in our garage. Why not?
1:06:48Why not?
1:06:51That’s this utopian idea I’m
1:06:53kind of betting on—that in a garage
1:06:55we set up one big table
1:06:58I’m approaching it very subtly
1:07:00I started bringing up some of my own ideas
1:07:02more and more often
1:07:06Just to get people used to it
1:07:08They hear it’s already in their heads
1:07:10Yeah, yeah. We were talking recently
1:07:12about fine dining in a garage
1:07:14in some warehouse spaces
1:07:17I tell him straight up
1:07:18How is that, no, no
1:07:19Now he’s laughing, and we’re talking
1:07:21He says, wait, have you ever done that?
1:07:23I said, yeah. Man, I’ve done it too
1:07:24So how do you want to do it?
1:07:25If you’ve done it, I’ve done it too
1:07:28basically. No, no, that’s a good story
1:07:30It’ll happen, sooner or later
1:07:32We’ve been through the stress in the end
1:07:34I know, but when you don’t have a challenge
1:07:36in organizing something
1:07:37what do you need that organization for?
1:07:39Exactly
1:07:42I spent years doing a bit of banquets
1:07:44We’re like groomsmen, man. We’re crazy
1:07:47Yeah, that’s stress
1:07:48That’s why we understand each other
1:07:50We share the same passion, that’s exactly it
1:07:52So I'm in favor of
1:07:54Who’s in favor of voting that Aleksa
1:07:55be the chef in the kitchen
1:07:56when I do the fine dining night
1:07:59All unanimously. So, Alex
1:08:01is running the fine dining night in the garage
1:08:02Well, groomsmen and head chefs
1:08:05who make that leap
1:08:07in some organization and then
1:08:09step outside a bit and see how things work
1:08:11And the restaurant, and the hotels
1:08:13and so on. They make really good
1:08:15really good, really good
1:08:17let’s say, managers
1:08:19Because, you know, you’re used to working
1:08:21in some constant madness and stress
1:08:23and then when you step out
1:08:24you see, well, it’s not that bad
1:08:27Wait, so it’s like this
1:08:28Yeah, exactly
1:08:30It’s again, going back to that—you travel
1:08:33you see, you work in hotels
1:08:36and in catering
1:08:37and in fine dining
1:08:38and you pick up a little bit of everything
1:08:41and then you create your own path
1:08:43and now, on that path
1:08:45you take a little bit of everything
1:08:47from catering, from fine dining
1:08:49and, I mean
1:08:51that’s the point
1:08:53The best thing about those
1:08:55big catering events is that you see
1:08:58dozens, or in some cases
1:08:59even hundreds of happy people
1:09:01Yeah, exactly
1:09:02And that smile when they leave and thank you
1:09:04that experience, that’s priceless
1:09:07No matter how much it costs, no matter how much they pay
1:09:10in the end it’s
1:09:12the satisfaction you carry with you
1:09:14and you gladly come back to it
1:09:15and remember it
1:09:16So everyone who is truly in hospitality
1:09:17hospitality at heart, hospitality in any context
1:09:19and any form, you actually work
1:09:22for that and because of that
1:09:23You work for that kind of
1:09:25satisfaction in hospitality
1:09:27Hospitality is about hosting
1:09:29and when you host someone and see that the guest
1:09:31is satisfied, you can’t get away from it
1:09:33To get it
1:09:34And it all started with family slavas at home
1:09:37When, as a kid, you had to bring water to the table
1:09:39Exactly
1:09:40Yeah, you don’t really have anyone to help you
1:09:42And then you’re 13, and everyone keeps asking
1:09:44when are you getting married?
1:09:46Do you have a girlfriend?
1:09:48I’m in that phase right now
1:09:51When are you getting married?
1:09:52You’re 13, slow down, slow down
1:09:54When do the questions start about when you’ll get married
1:09:57when you’ll have a wife
1:09:58Like, I’m supposed to handle a stressful job
1:10:00I have a wife, I call it an ex
1:10:02But look, you find
1:10:05life partners
1:10:06and then you share the problems
1:10:09It comes down to perspective
1:10:11I don’t know, I still
1:10:12think that this is a job
1:10:15that is basically about spreading
1:10:17good energy
1:10:18Everything else, really
1:10:20After all, no one goes to restaurants just because they’re hungry anymore
1:10:23You go for the experience
1:10:25If you know how to create an experience
1:10:26in 15-20-25 minutes
1:10:29like that quick breakfast
1:10:31you’ve managed to
1:10:32in a short amount of time
1:10:34make those half an hour
1:10:36he set aside for himself feel nice
1:10:39And you don’t care
1:10:40whether he ate
1:10:42a sandwich or porridge
1:10:44or if she had boiled eggs
1:10:46after the fifth shot of vinjak
1:10:47He was happy because he could drink vinjak all he wanted
1:10:50Just like someone is happy when they’ve tried
1:10:53that burger on a bun
1:10:54with something, even if there’s no burger there
1:10:56Yeah, that’s what we’ve said a hundred times
1:10:58here and internally
1:10:59and so on
1:11:01It’s hard to invent some
1:11:03I don’t know, some heavenly approach
1:11:05from scratch. Most of that already exists, more or less
1:11:08You’re just selling emotion
1:11:09and you’re selling yourself, and that’s okay
1:11:11You know, I mean, at the end of the day, coffee
1:11:13and anything else, and a sandwich, you can
1:11:15drink or eat anywhere. You can smoke a cigar
1:11:17anywhere. You have no idea that you
1:11:19actually feel good after those couple of hours
1:11:21somewhere. And that’s what brings people back, and that’s what makes people
1:11:23happy, and that gives people
1:11:25the feeling that they’re justifying being there themselves
1:11:27Yes. So that’s the whole story
1:11:30The essence of hospitality
1:11:31and gastronomy. Cigarette finished?
1:11:37Just ten minutes
1:11:39and it lasted
1:11:41Aleksandar, anything nice to finish with?
1:11:46First, I want to say thank you
1:11:47for being in such good company
1:11:49to, as they say, do therapy together
1:11:51and relax with a cigar
1:11:54Don’t worry, come on over
1:11:55to Egz. Maybe even
1:11:57to shoot something there
1:11:59Sure, it’s a non-smoking place, but
1:12:01we’ll figure something out. There’s the outdoor seating too
1:12:03Look
1:12:05that park bench from Sweden
1:12:07to remind ourselves
1:12:09of those hard times
1:12:11Because we have to do that. We have to remember
1:12:13about those things that helped shape us
1:12:16Because it's easy
1:12:17when everything is just a collection of solved problems
1:12:19but then it's not interesting
1:12:21Come to Egz for a boiled egg
1:12:23After the wine
1:12:25Or a pre-shot
1:12:27Or a pre-shot
1:12:29Or a pre-shot
1:12:30Or a pre-shot
1:12:32Loska is a serious tool, just so we're clear
1:12:35Thank you. Thank you so much
1:12:36for your time, and thank you for hanging out with us
1:12:39Thank you. Thank you, Alexa
1:12:40This was another Smoking Talk. Thank you all so much for
1:12:42spending time with us. I hope you enjoyed
1:12:44it as much as we did. I hope you
1:12:46feel better after this therapy
1:12:48how much better we feel
1:12:50Like and subscribe. Write to us in the comments
1:12:52anything you'd like to know
1:12:54We're here to answer, and we're here to hang out
1:12:56Enjoy

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