YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → 'Grammaring' activities by SCOTT THORNBURY video master class

'Grammaring' activities by SCOTT THORNBURY video master class — Transcript

by NSW Federation of Community Language Schools INC · 9,564 words · 1,360 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:48as Alex said it's I'm speaking to you
0:51from Spain where it's ten o'clock in the
0:54morning and we're still in lockdown here
0:58and have been for two months but we're
1:01coming out into the light
1:03fortunately and Maria you who's Spain
1:07I'm actually from New Zealand originally
1:09so I'm not that far away from Australia
1:13in my origins and I have a I have family
1:17living in Adelaide so I do come back
1:21from time to time and so it's great to
1:26see so many people here and just give me
1:32a feel for the languages that are
1:34represented if you could type in the
1:37language you teach into the chat box are
1:40Chinese German Spanish sinhala Greek
1:44modern Greek cha kanika Vietnamese
1:47Bulgarian well well Napoli Hindi Serbian
1:50oh my god this is fantastic
1:53tamil Persian Hungarian Wow
1:57Mandarin Thai Chinese Swedish Wow
2:00you're a long way from home polish your
2:03show Macedonian wow this is amazing okay
2:07well great I ought to tell you at this
2:10juncture that my experience as a teacher
2:16and as a teacher educator has been in
2:19English language teaching so I've taught
2:23English as the foreign language in a
2:26number of countries and presently in
2:29Spain and I trained teachers are of
2:33English as a foreign language or as a
2:35second language so I have to say that as
2:37a proviso because I'm not 100% familiar
2:41with the kind of context in which you
2:44are teaching I have given talks at
2:47conferences to teachers of modern
2:49languages so and I've always welcomed
2:52that because it's wonderful to get a
2:53different viewpoint from just silly ol
2:56English so it's great to have so many
2:59languages represented but I mean
3:01time what I say you will have to apply
3:05to your own language in your own
3:07classrooms in your own way I can't tell
3:09you how you should adapt the ideas I'm
3:11going to because they've been practiced
3:14tried and tested with English but not
3:17with Mandarin or Croatian or Vietnamese
3:20and so that's up to you but I will be
3:22interested if we have chime time to chat
3:24at the end to ask you if you think these
3:27ideas would work with the language that
3:29you were teaching and so here's another
3:34question or let's see we've got
3:40okay I'm going to open my powerpoint now
3:45and we're in business
3:50thanks Alex okay
3:55right okay and I'll turn this off at the
4:00end but I've got the chat window still
4:02open so if you do have questions or
4:05comments then please don't hesitate to
4:07post them so here's the first question
4:09for you we're going to talk about
4:12grammar I just want an independent of
4:15the language that you teach but what in
4:17general linguistically what does grammar
4:20do what is the function of grammar in
4:25language feel free to type your ideas
4:30into the chat box is not a test it's
4:34just to get you thinking I know it's
4:35been a long day for many of you
4:38structure it makes sense of language
4:41okay
4:43sense sense present past future tenses
4:45okay there's that there's different
4:47structures it's the foundation of every
4:49language correct okay interesting word
4:52correct structure we're getting a
4:53repetition here that's interesting
4:55connects context okay that's interesting
5:00allows people to derive meaning ok can
5:04you derive meaning in any other way I
5:06wonder can you derive meaning without
5:09length grammar we'll come back to that
5:11question producer for me to help you
5:13learn the language yes that's true and
5:16so on ok fine
5:18well I'm not going to answer the
5:19question immediately I'm just going to
5:21take you through some examples let's
5:26look at a let's look at some language
5:28without grammar and then we'll see if we
5:32can re define what grammar adds to the
5:36equation so here's a sentence or a sign
5:38or whatever you want to call it which
5:40has got minimal grammar what do you
5:44think it's telling us what's the message
5:47that you saw this what would you infer
5:55I'm going to sign what's it's saying
5:58what's the message
6:04banned for bicycles you okay you can't
6:09ride bikes it's not allowed to ride
6:10bikes okay okay so yeah we're generally
6:16an agreement that's probably the message
6:18and if we had to add some extra non
6:21grammatical information to make that
6:23clear then we could add this yeah so
6:27we're adding nothing to the words we're
6:30just adding a picture to make to clarify
6:32the meaning because it's not always the
6:37case that no bikes means bikes are not
6:41allowed because look at this
6:45what does it mean here
6:49do
6:50sink
6:56no bikes for sale okay number
7:04no bikes inside this shop sold out yes
7:07okay so it's a bicycle shop with a sign
7:09saying no bikes so it's probably not
7:11saying bikes are not allowed but say we
7:13don't have any bikes left so what I'm
7:15saying here is that the context in
7:19different contexts that little sentence
7:22no bikes can have different meanings it
7:24can mean bikes are not allowed here or
7:26we don't have any bikes left yeah so
7:30what the grammar is doing here it's
7:33clarifying the meaning that is not
7:37available
7:41in the context if we take away the
7:43context we've got to kind of add
7:45something to make the meaning clear we
7:47can add a picture of a bike being
7:49slashed down or we can expand that
7:52sentence using a bit of grammar bikes
7:55are not allowed here
7:56to explain what we mean by no bikes or
7:58we don't have any bikes left meaning no
8:01bikes so let's try another one here's
8:05another one word utterance can you
8:10suggest some possible meanings for cake
8:15question mark can we expand that
8:24okay do you want to have some cake would
8:26you like a cake okay we just ready to
8:30eat please have a cake do you need cake
8:32would you like some cake
8:33they would you like cake cake for sale
8:35okay so again without more information
8:39this this is ambiguous it could mean for
8:43example should I bring a cake to the
8:46party ah
8:48did you order cake it could be in a
8:51restaurant this is the the server who
8:53once is the only cake left it could be
8:56or it could even be the famous saying of
9:00Marie Antoinette let them eat cake so
9:03again in the absence of context we need
9:08more information in context it may be
9:12quite enough for in a restaurant the
9:14server saying cake meaning would you
9:17like cake or who ordered cake so what
9:20I'm saying here is that the more context
9:24you have the less grammar you need you
9:26can get by with words but the less
9:29context the more grammar that is to say
9:33grammar compensates for the lack of
9:37context otherwise we could just use
9:39words otherwise we could just use words
9:42words would be enough if there's enough
9:44context for example here's another
9:46situation imagine a operating theater in
9:49a hospital and the surgeon says to her
9:53assistant scalpel scalpel number two
9:57scalpel a little sharp knife yeah
10:00scalpel now is it necessary to say
10:03please could you hand me the scalpel
10:05over there no there's not
10:07necessary so the context makes it
10:08perfectly clear that scalpel is enough
10:11yeah but if the surgeon left her scalpel
10:16at home and she's phoning her partner
10:19and she says she can't just say scalpel
10:23yeah the lack of context information and
10:26the distance means that she has to say
10:29something like listen I left the scalpel
10:31behind it's sitting on top of the fridge
10:33could you send it over
10:36you see what I mean so the longer that
10:38the more the less context the the more
10:41distance between speakers the more
10:44grammar is necessary words alone don't
10:47work so to answer my question before
10:50what just grammar do here's my answer
10:55grammars the way that in the absence of
10:58context we sequence that is do we put
11:01words in order and modify words we
11:03change their endings for example in many
11:05languages in order to achieve greater
11:07clarity and precision greater clarity
11:10and precision
11:12so grammar is a toolbox for making
11:14meaning and you kind of said that in
11:16your different ways but I want to stress
11:19that there in the absence of context the
11:22less context we have the less we can
11:25rely on words and the more that we need
11:27to bring in the grammar and the grammar
11:29is essentially two things the order of
11:32the words and how we change the words
11:34whether we add endings prefixes suffixes
11:36etc again depending very much on the
11:39language so that's my starting point now
11:43what a look at the way grammar develops
11:46and we can see that this happens too
11:48when children learn the grammar of their
11:51first language when children start off
11:53speaking their first language whatever
11:54it is whether it's Mandarin whether it's
11:56Serbian whether it's Thai whether it's
11:58English whether it's Portuguese they
12:00start off virtually without any grammar
12:03they start with words one word two words
12:06and so here's a study this is a boy in
12:09English speaking boy and this is the
12:12stages he went through when he was
12:15learning to speak his first language his
12:18mother tongue which was English so you
12:20can see at the stage when it's very
12:21rudimentary Adam home Adam go he'll like
12:26Adam bookshelf pick Adam up know and the
12:30notice at stage two we start to so the
12:32stage well it's purely lexical it's just
12:34words words there's a little bit of word
12:36order there but it's basically words
12:38there's no inflections there's no
12:39grammar there's no auxiliary verbs
12:41there's no articles there's no
12:42prepositions and so on now in pronouns
12:45and now at stage 2 we see he's moving
12:47along now
12:48I like drink it he's got a verb
12:50he's got a pronoun he's got two pronouns
12:52I Adam it's not 100% no I don't like but
12:56it's systematic and then at stage three
12:59we can see that he's already started to
13:01produce fully dramatis eyes words
13:05sentences and so this is a natural
13:07progression that children go through in
13:11learning their first language and of
13:12course as we well know it's the stage
13:14that's that that learners go through
13:17when they're learning they're a second
13:22language or third language or whatever
13:24so for example we can take that initial
13:27stage in the second language learner and
13:31an invented sentence me Tarzan yeah
13:35Muhtar then very very basic
13:37ungrammatical
13:39two kind of nouns pronoun and a noun and
13:43then the next stage maybe me name Tarzan
13:46and then the next stage my name is
13:50Tarzan so you can see that the grammar
13:53is being added as it becomes
13:55increasingly necessary the meaning is
13:57clear there's no problem with the
13:59meaning but it's not necessarily precise
14:04enough to deal with an absence of
14:07context yeah you would need some more
14:11grammar the more distance there is
14:13between the speakers the more the less
14:16context there is and so various scholars
14:19have said we're basically when you learn
14:21in language and this was a study done on
14:24a lot of European languages where people
14:27were learning say Turkish speakers were
14:30learning Swedish or German speakers were
14:32learning Danish etc and they looked at
14:34all these different combinations of all
14:35these different European languages the
14:37people learning them as second languages
14:38and they found that they all followed
14:41this basic progression what they called
14:43the pre basic variety me Tarzan the
14:46basic variety me name Tarzan and then
14:50the post basic variety which is my name
14:54is Tarzan or I am called house and etc
14:56but this and this is still in the basic
14:59level this is not intermediate this is
15:01not advanced but the basic level
15:03learners
15:04whatever the language whatever the
15:05language they're learning are going to
15:07go through these stages this is
15:08inevitable and these stages are not
15:10unsystematic they do have a kind of
15:13logic or a grammar to them on the
15:15subject of Tarzan you probably know this
15:18Gary Larson cartoon till you got Tarzan
15:21he's he's thinking he's rehearsing to
15:24himself okay how do you do my name is
15:26Tarzan and I believe you are known as
15:28Jane allow me to introduce myself I am
15:31Tarzan Lord of jungle and you he's
15:34practicing again you must be Jane I am
15:36Tarzan it's a great pleasure to meet you
15:37there she is
15:38Moo Charles earn you J damn what
15:43happened what happened after all that
15:46practice in rehearsal what happened in
15:48the event all he could come up with was
15:51the pre basic variety and this is
15:53another thing about language learning
15:55that because the system has not been
16:00activated we may know it in our head but
16:03it's not available in real time we tend
16:07to revert to a level which is in a sense
16:12beneath our current competence because
16:15of the the pressure of speaking in real
16:17time then we'll come back to that point
16:20later on some more research just to
16:23quote here looking at what are the
16:25things you mentioned I think when I ask
16:27you what is grammar do and you mentioned
16:29past present future yes because grammar
16:31is very important in identifying the
16:35time reference and when people learn
16:38grammar they have different ways of
16:41representing time relationships so this
16:44is a study of what they call temporality
16:49that is to say how we express time when
16:52we're learning in this case English and
16:54the first day show what's how they
16:56tested this is they gave people stories
16:58or pictures where they saw a cartoon or
17:01a piece of a movie and they had to say
17:04what they saw and very that the pre
17:06basic stage they tend to just use words
17:12like she steal bread and run away
17:17and they join them in sequence so this
17:19is what it's called pragmatic they're
17:21just putting one event and another event
17:22and another event to show the time
17:25sequence notice there's no attempt to
17:27put in the past tense or whatever and
17:30then there's what it's called a lexical
17:31phase where which goes something like
17:33this then the then using words like then
17:37next after that yeah these different
17:40kinds of markers the car of police come
17:43but notice there's no attempt to use the
17:46past tense here and then finally there's
17:49the grammatical phase and we get and
17:51suddenly she cried she cried yeah past
17:55tense and so this progression from just
17:58putting words and another kind of
18:00certain order then to adding lexical
18:03markers of this case of time then
18:06finally using grammar is well attested
18:09it's the stage that learners have to go
18:11through you can't
18:15walk no run until you can walk so that's
18:20a little bit of background to what I
18:22want to talk about now I want to tell
18:23you a story about how I started teaching
18:26many years ago and I was teaching in
18:31Egypt anybody here from Egypt I didn't
18:34notice
18:35Egypt on the list of countries and went
18:38flying through anyway I was teaching in
18:43Egypt and I was using a textbook that
18:48looked like this and it was it was very
18:55extremely popular at the time it was one
18:57of the best-selling textbooks in the
18:58world written by Louis Alexander who was
19:02himself Greek and it was when you open
19:06it up it kind of looked like this so you
19:08had a lot of little dialogues and with
19:13people called John and Mary inevitably
19:15and making tea and you can see that the
19:22language is very simplified and that it
19:28is there's a kind of pattern there if
19:33you might you might be able to detect or
19:35there's certain kinds of structures and
19:38this is from the teachers book and this
19:41explains what the patterns and
19:43structures are so the the language
19:45that's being taught in this particular
19:47unit is can you principally can you yes
19:51I can no I can't he can but he can and
19:54then some ancillary language of place
20:00and revisiting is there are there which
20:05is actually being 12 before then you can
20:06see the vocabulary is kept very very low
20:11there's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 new words in
20:14this unit and a couple of expressions
20:16now this is the way I started teaching
20:20and a lot of the teaching was based on
20:23these structures and patterns so for
20:26example this is also
20:28in the teachers book I had to this is do
20:32these patent practice drills so these
20:34are where the students with the books
20:36are shut they have to respond with the
20:39correct ah response to my question so
20:44the teacher says can he drink this milk
20:46teacher nods and the students say yes he
20:49can can you drink this tea no I can't
20:54you can see so this is very automatic
20:56habit formation and there's a number of
21:00different suggested sentences also that
21:04the teacher can ask and with nodding and
21:08shaking the students know how to respond
21:11they have to change the pronoun she'
21:13paint this room can she paid this room
21:17yes you can can we read this magazine no
21:21we can't so this was incredibly
21:24controlled as you can imagine and I'm
21:26not suggesting that this is how we teach
21:28now but I just wanted to give you the
21:30background because I want to tell you a
21:31story and this was at the beginners
21:33level but it was the same at other
21:36levels the intermediate level for
21:38example the syllabus look like this so
21:42you can see unit one present simple
21:43present continuous passive bla bla bla
21:45bla bla bla going all the way through
21:46down right down to unit 25 the past
21:49conditional so these are you can see
21:51this is extremely grammar based syllabus
21:55and it's very
21:59staged it's very sequence it's very
22:01structured it's very organized very
22:03systematic it doesn't allow much room
22:06for flexibility of mixing and matching
22:09or certainly doesn't allow room for the
22:12students to say what they necessarily
22:14want to do because after all you know
22:16can you touch the ceiling the teachers
22:19going yes I can so the teacher is
22:23supplying the meaning the students are
22:25supplying the structure so there wasn't
22:27a lot of creativity there wasn't a lot
22:29of natural language use here again from
22:31that intermediate book this is the
22:34substitution tables were used a lot I
22:36have no problem with substitution tables
22:37but this told you what you had to teach
22:39and these in a sense set the limits of
22:41what the learners were capable of doing
22:43and they were based on long lists of
22:46structures that had been drawn up for
22:48English language this is 1975 this book
22:51came out which is just a lists and lists
22:54and lists of structures that should be
22:55taught at different stages so stage one
22:57my name is Tom that pen is black he is
23:00in the garden here I am blah blah blah
23:02blah blah it's not until stage 2 or
23:04stage 3 that they can start talking
23:06about the past this is how I learned to
23:09teach but I recognized at the time that
23:13it was very limited that the students in
23:15a sense were very frustrated my students
23:16in Egypt were young professional people
23:20many of them university students they
23:24were very keen to learn English they
23:27were very motivated they were very good
23:30at learning English in the sense that
23:31they had very good comprehension skills
23:33because they watched a lot of English
23:34television and movies etc and I sensed
23:38that as they took them through these
23:42these pattern practice drills etc that
23:45they were somewhat frustrated because it
23:49seemed to be going so slow and because
23:51more importantly they were not really
23:53given any opportunities to make their
23:55own meaning so I went in one day to a
23:58class and I decided let's just see what
24:01would happen if I said nothing
24:09happen if I said nothing if I didn't
24:12drill and I didn't have them repeating
24:14what if what would happen if I created a
24:17space in which they could say what they
24:20wanted now how am I gonna do this well I
24:23need some kind of stimulus so what I had
24:26was this this was a Time magazine cover
24:31of its this is the one I used I found it
24:34on the internet it was 1976 or something
24:37I put this on the board yeah I stuck it
24:41on the board and I sat down now these
24:45were students who were in be a1 a2 these
24:50were beginner students
24:55they did not they could not read a
24:57magazine like Time magazine but they
24:59certainly knew they recognized the story
25:01they recognized the person on the cover
25:03they recognized some details but
25:08what they looked at me
25:12they looked at each other there was an
25:14embarrassing silence and then finally
25:17one student said Saudi Arabia and then
25:21another student said Prince fart and
25:24then another student said jet and then
25:28another student and gradually they
25:30started to produce words and more and
25:33more words which provided in a sense the
25:35background to this story and I said
25:36nothing I said nothing I said nothing I
25:39did not repeat I did not correct I just
25:41sat and waited for them and more as they
25:44realized that I wasn't going to help
25:46them more and more language came out of
25:48the class or about 15 or 16 students and
25:51eventually that kind of together pieced
25:54together the story of on which this
25:57cover of Time magazine was based so then
26:00I was faced with a dilemma now what do I
26:02do
26:02so I said okay here's the pen the board
26:05pen I'm going out for a minute just one
26:09of you I gave the pen to one of the
26:10students said right onto the board kind
26:12of what you all just said yeah trying to
26:17catch everything that's just been said
26:20and so off they went I went outside I
26:23came back about five minutes and they
26:24said no not finished not finished and
26:26then I came back another five men still
26:29not finished I came back and when I came
26:31back in the board was full of language
26:35full of English full of text their story
26:39about this picture now wasn't very good
26:42English in fact it was essentially
26:45lexical English it was words it was
26:47words that they had been able to come up
26:48with and put into some kind of order and
26:51then what I did I just took their text I
26:54said okay okay okay and then I what's
26:56called now I realize I didn't know then
26:59the technical term I reformulated it I
27:01didn't correct it
27:03it wasn't like saying this is wrong I'm
27:05saying ah ah this is what you're trying
27:08to say this is what you're trying to say
27:10and I'd write it along the top or
27:14underneath in the target language in
27:17gromet a sized that is fully grammatical
27:20English a simple English NIT that they
27:23could understand and then they copied
27:25that
27:25and that was the end of the lesson that
27:27was an hour or more of a lesson the
27:29students created from the stimulus that
27:31provided so what did I learn from that
27:32lesson I learned two things important
27:35things I learned that the language I
27:37learned in the classroom is a communal
27:39process it's jointly constructed it's
27:42done together that's the language that
27:44people remember that takeaway so that's
27:47one thing I learned
27:50and I suppose related to that I learned
27:52trust the students trust the students
27:56now they will come up with something
27:59trust them even beginners and then the
28:02other thing I learned and this is what I
28:04want to talk about is that grammar
28:06emerges grammar emerges out of words
28:09words first grammar second and that's
28:13the point I want to come back to but let
28:15me have any German speakers here I think
28:18I did see German flash by briefly this
28:22was Langan shite the man who wrote the
28:25dictionary said way back in the 19th
28:27century d Grammatik compt hasta Sh
28:30but ah Herr Nick dish praha asked
28:32agrammatic grammar comes out of speech
28:35not speech out of grammar grammar comes
28:38as a speech and we saw that when we
28:43learn our first language that children
28:45are speaking before they have the
28:47grammar grammar comes out of it emerges
28:49from spoken language and not the other
28:52way around they don't learn the grammar
28:54and then they speak so the traditional
28:57approach to teaching an approach that I
28:58was using was you start with a grammar
29:00and then you add words so going back to
29:05this my substitution tables you start
29:10with a pattern and you add words not
29:12many words because the idea was you
29:14don't want to overload the students with
29:16lots of the category the grammar is more
29:18important than the vocabulary so that
29:20was a traditional approach henry
29:22Widdowson who was a eminent scholar and
29:25applied linguist wrote a song goes 1990
29:29he said hmm I don't know about that
29:32first grammar then words he said I would
29:34suggest that a more natural and more
29:37effective approach would be to reverse
29:39as traditional pedagogics dependency
29:42that is to say first words then grammar
29:46sorry first grammar then words and begin
29:48with lexical items vocabulary and show
29:51how they need to be grammatically
29:52modified to be communicatively effective
29:56start with words
29:59so how they need to be grammatically
30:01modified what you change is you need to
30:04make to them to be communicative ly
30:05effective that's what my students were
30:07doing in Egypt in 1976 talking about
30:10this time magazine cover they started
30:12the words and then I grammatically
30:14modified those words to make them
30:15community effective and that's really
30:18what I want to talk about I just want a
30:19couple more quotations so that's the
30:22traditional approach the alternative
30:24approach may be as willerson suggests is
30:26turned it around start with the words
30:27and then build the grammar on top so the
30:30direction of processing is from Lexus to
30:33grammar grammar emerges
30:37this is rod Baxton who was a student of
30:40widows since wrote a very good book 1984
30:42called grammar and he gave this as an
30:45example here are four words and two
30:48situations
30:52okay just choose one of those situations
30:54and then decide how you'll put these
30:56words together using grammar arrived
30:58Jane leave John
31:01so situation one you know that John
31:03doesn't like Jane so you can choose that
31:07situation or you could choose another
31:10situation John and Jane a good friends
31:12but Jane is feeling ill so for situation
31:14one one possibility might be if John
31:18doesn't like change so when Jane arrived
31:22what John left
31:30or if in the second situation it might
31:34be the combination might be Jane arrived
31:39and John didn't leave
31:42and so on so there's different ways of
31:46expressing or putting those four words
31:50in using grammar for two different
31:53contexts if you if you like
31:58okay I'm just gonna I've seen there's
32:01some raised hands here I'm gonna move on
32:03though just should we get so we can get
32:05to the practical ideas before I run out
32:06of time so what I'm talking about today
32:10is grammar ring grammar is a process
32:13it's the process of adding grammar to
32:16words not adding words to grammar but
32:20adding grammar to us because we've seen
32:22a roux that's what grammar does it makes
32:24the message more precise especially in
32:26the absence of context so these are
32:30grammar activities and what I really am
32:33interested in is knowing is whether they
32:34would work in the languages that you
32:37teach okay and so these are the five
32:40activities I want to describe and let's
32:44get through them in ten minutes and it
32:47gives us plenty of time for some
32:50questions and answers okay so number one
32:53headlines what you headlines newspaper
32:57headlines because of the reasons of
33:00space apart from anything else are very
33:04ungrammatical and here's their the
33:06grammar is often taken out of them this
33:08is from my book and I'll give you I'll
33:09give you the details at the end but this
33:15is an activity here you can see it more
33:17clearly here some newspaper headlines
33:19expand them expand these headlines which
33:23is simply lexical so as to summarize the
33:26story so for example banks warned
33:29homeowners interest rates to rise one
33:32way of expanding that might be banks
33:34have warned home owners that interest
33:36rates will rise or banks are warning
33:39homeowners and those are going to rise
33:41its various where it's not one correct
33:42answer so these are number of headlines
33:47this is this is not beginner stuff this
33:50is more advanced but nevertheless you
33:53could simplify this I mean of course you
33:55could also do it with telegrams but we
33:58don't have telegrams anymore but when
34:00remember telegrams also take out the
34:02grammar arrive Thursday please meet ya
34:06and the idea would be to add the grammar
34:09into the Lexus yeah so you start
34:12with Lexus and you're adding grammar
34:15very simple here's another one activity
34:17which is similar it's not exactly
34:18headlines but it's kind of timelines so
34:22these are five key events in my life and
34:29I want you to guess and this is me as a
34:33teacher now I'm telling the students I
34:35want you to tell me why these dates are
34:40significant ah can anybody guess for
34:441950
34:49both yes now exactly suffer exactly
34:53birth but suffer exactly born yes now
34:57that's what the students say to you born
34:59you born you very are wood ok and
35:08that's where then I as a teacher would
35:11write I was born yeah so they say born I
35:16say I was born you see what's happening
35:18I'm adding the grammar
35:20what's 1967 do you think finish school
35:22exactly so that's very simple and then I
35:26could add well more details here
35:28chromaticism the students are going to
35:30say school finish leave home graduate
35:33whatever
35:34yeah I left home yeah you see what I'm
35:37doing I'm adding the grammar 1974 I gave
35:41that one away I started teaching what
35:42about 1986 got married graduate got mad
35:46night 86 we're looking at here maybe got
35:52to do the math how old was I where do I
35:56live now hmm where do I live now don't
36:05go oversea move to Egypt that was
36:08earlier moved to straight it no I moved
36:11to Spain but nevertheless you see what I
36:13mean and then 1997 you have no idea but
36:17doesn't matter so what's happening here
36:19is the students go throwing words at you
36:21Spain teaching oh born 97 migrated marry
36:27divorced no no no Sarah no wrote a book
36:32and so on okay now and then what do you
36:35do then what do you do when you've done
36:37that you've written that census is up
36:39now the fully grammatical sentences so
36:41what do you ask the students to do to do
36:44the same obviously so in pairs and they
36:46could do this online in pairs or
36:48whatever right your significant dates
36:52and your life and the others can guess
36:53what they mean and that's a great way of
36:55getting to know each other so it's not
36:57headlines as I say it's lifelines or
37:00timelines I want to add that all these
37:03activities that I'm going to explain
37:06describe I think are possible on for
37:10online teaching but you can tell me that
37:13so the second one is pictures storage
37:15now picture stories we've always had
37:17picture stories I started teaching again
37:21using
37:21picture stories this was from a book
37:23that we used called progressive picture
37:28compositions it was very very popular
37:29and had these little stories for
37:31pictures each story and what we did with
37:34these pictures stories is we got the
37:36students to tell the story now we could
37:39do this in whole class with picture on
37:42the board
37:43students tell the story elissa deny
37:45correct or they could do it in pairs and
37:49of course they could do this online
37:50using just a simple chat program like
37:53we're using now you put up the pictures
37:55and the students in a sense construct
37:59the story now what's interesting is it
38:02in the book they give you some help and
38:06this is the help that they give you
38:08these are the suggestions
38:11notice that okay so look at the pictures
38:14and complete these sentences so they
38:16give them the structure of the sentences
38:19and all the students have to do really
38:24is put in the vocabulary yeah and
38:31there's earnest to different levels to
38:35do that so the second one 25 B is
38:40slightly higher more advanced level than
38:42the first one so the idea is nice but
38:46look it's all about giving them the
38:48grammar and then they add the words how
38:51about that we turned it around and give
38:52them the words and then they had the
38:56grammar so here's my his how I would
38:59redesign an activity like that so
39:02there's the picture the story and these
39:05are the words now take those words and
39:08add the grammar take the words and add
39:12the grammar
39:14I knew of course at more advanced levels
39:17you don't even have to give them the
39:18words they can supply the words
39:19themselves but the point I'm trying to
39:22make here is that don't give them the
39:24grammatical information let them supply
39:26the grammatical information and then you
39:28can kind of tidy it up for them so this
39:32is again a very old technique using
39:35picture stories but adapted to a more
39:38grammar approach add the grammar turn
39:40the woods into grammar
39:42here's another activity or set of
39:45activities which are doing similar
39:49things with short poems now poetry a lot
39:53of partially modern poetry is very
39:55lexical so I'm not sure if you can see
39:57this but you have two versions of a
39:59story and the one an a is I am sitting
40:03on the sand and watching the sea the Sun
40:04is setting there is a fisherman pulling
40:06his boat out of the water add up the
40:08beach and there are birds flying bla bla
40:09bla bla now if you turn that into a poem
40:12you get B something might be sitting on
40:15the sand watching the sea the Sun
40:17setting a fisherman pulling his boat out
40:20of the water birds flying bla bla bla so
40:23a lot of the grammar has been sort of
40:24taken out because it's not necessary
40:26it's much more impressionistic to do so
40:28this is so to me suggest an activity
40:32where you can give students text they
40:33take the grammar out and then they can
40:35put the grammar back in again or you
40:37give them a text with the grammar in as
40:39in the top two here and you turned it
40:42into a poem
40:43so both working both ways taking turning
40:46prose and to poetry and poetry and to
40:49prose but again it's just being creative
40:51with grammar
40:55we give them the words now you add the
40:57grammar okay um dictogloss you may know
41:03this activity it's pretty world has been
41:07publicized a lot in the last few years
41:12and in fact there's a book called
41:13grammatic grammar dictation by Ruth wine
41:16rib who was an Australian linguist
41:20applied linguist and teacher and she
41:22wrote this book I made the technique
41:25very popular she called it grammar
41:26dictation but it's better known as
41:28dictogloss it's a kind of dictation but
41:32it's not a dictation in the traditional
41:34sense
41:34traditional dictation is usually words
41:36I'm going to say some words you have to
41:38write them down and spell them correctly
41:39it's a kind of test of spelling or
41:41sentences I'm going to say some
41:43sentences you have to write them down
41:44correctly so it's a kind of test of
41:46grammar that's traditional dictation
41:49nothing wrong with that but dictogloss
41:52adds considerably to this basic
41:55technique do you know you know what I'm
41:58talking about anybody know dictogloss
42:04No okay good
42:08okay all right oh okay God something new
42:11okay so this is dig like it's fantastic
42:14a fantastic technique and you can do it
42:18in any level and you can do it online
42:22and you can do it in real classes yes
42:29Claire's is teacher read out something
42:31with Sutra
42:31okay yes okay so some of you do know so
42:35this is how it goes so instead of a
42:37sentence or instead of a word the
42:40teacher tells the students will reads a
42:42student a complete text
42:46it's a story or a poem or whatever but
42:49it's more than just a sentence the
42:52teacher reads it once
42:56and the students don't write when
42:58they're listening they just listen to
42:59the whole thing and then individually
43:04they tried to capture what they can
43:07remember and write it down and then they
43:13collaborate yeah in pairs or threes or
43:17whatever to see comparing their text to
43:20see if they can do it again and
43:23reconstruct the text again without
43:26having heard it they hear it once
43:29technically if it's well judged it works
43:31and if it's not too long a tape we talk
43:33about 50 words maximum a hundred so
43:36here's an example I did this with a
43:38group of teenagers in Spain I read them
43:43this little poem there was a young woman
43:46of Riga
43:48who went for a ride on a tiger they
43:52returned from the ride with a woman
43:54inside and a smile on the face of the
43:57tiger
43:59and then I said I co-write so each
44:02individual student in this class these
44:05are kind of be one ish maybe be two
44:11students teenagers in Spain and where
44:16did that come from this is what they
44:19wrote
44:25this is what one student wrote ah there
44:29was a woman from Riga who weren't a
44:30tiger to make a ride when the tiger
44:33when they come back the woman was in
44:35tiger and the tiger was smiling so you
44:37can see that this student has captured
44:40the sense of the story it's not exactly
44:43the same and there's a grammatically
44:45it's kind of fairly basic there's a she
44:47keeps switching backwards and frogs from
44:49present to past and so on then I put
44:51them into groups of three they don't
44:53hear it again yeah they're just doing it
44:55together now from but what this tells me
44:58is at least the student has got a
44:59picture clear picture of the story in
45:01her head she did understand the story
45:04now the challenges to find the English
45:06to recreate it and then the next group
45:09that okay working together in a group of
45:13three they come up with this there was a
45:15young woman from Riga who go for a ride
45:17on a tiger the tiger come back with a
45:21woman inside and a smile on the tiger
45:23now do you notice it's starting to
45:24improve
45:25we're getting a little bit more nearer
45:28the target and finally when all the
45:35class I put all the class together
45:37wasn't a very big class we're going from
45:40individual student groups of three to
45:43the whole class of nine again they don't
45:44hear it again they're just doing it from
45:47what they can teach each other I had one
45:50student at the board and she took the
45:53general opinion of what and this is what
45:55they came up with the final text
45:59you
46:01whoops there was a young woman of Riga
46:04who went for riding a tiger the Tiger
46:06returned with the woman inside in a
46:07smile on his face now look at that look
46:10at that that is not exactly what I said
46:13but it's the story - and it is 100%
46:16grammatically correct now they did this
46:18themselves they did this themselves they
46:21added the grammar now I created an image
46:25and they remembered some of the words in
46:28the image the story they grabbed the
46:32words they could remember some of the
46:33phrases and sentences they used their
46:35individual grammar and then working
46:37together they collaborated to use their
46:39joint grammar until they were able to
46:41come up with this perfect version of the
46:44text so that's again dictogloss is a
46:47great activity for adding grammar and
46:50you can choose your text often by
46:52anticipating what it is that the
46:54learners may not quite know maybe some
46:58of them will but together they can work
47:00it out so here are some texts from my
47:03book again that I've chosen short takes
47:07poems short news items that's about as
47:10long as you need you reader once at a
47:13natural speed if necessary if necessary
47:18can tell if necessary you can read it
47:19again but often it's amazing how little
47:22they need depending of course on the
47:24level okay finally tasks repetition
47:32tasks repetition
47:35is what it says - repetition is when you
47:38do the task again and I've talked about
47:41this at length and other webinars I'm
47:43just going to give you an example now
47:45going back to our story about the
47:47picture story remember the picture story
47:49well here's some students doing a
47:51picture story they're recreating a
47:53picture story there's three of them they
47:57can see the pictures and they're
47:59basically telling the story and they do
48:01it first time and then do a second time
48:06they do it a third time and they're
48:08getting no help between each of these
48:10attempts and notice that in the first
48:13one it's pretty basic it's quite short
48:15they went to the park by car and he go
48:18with his dog and he take lunch box and I
48:21have sandwich and hamburgers but in the
48:24they do it again no help from the
48:26teacher but this tried again and then
48:29the third attempt was a nice sunny day
48:31so Tom and Victoria decided to go - now
48:33look at that again you see it's become
48:35Grammatik it's texturized
48:37it's a lot then we can see just looking
48:40at some of the differences I've
48:41highlighted here he go with his dog
48:44first - Tim say third attempt they went
48:46to picnic by car with their dogs
48:48I have sandwich they had lunchbox and so
48:52on you can see a huge improvement
48:54because now they've got the story the
48:57details of the story down they can start
48:59working on the fine-tuning so again
49:01grammar is all about fine-tuning for
49:04clarity fine-tuning for precision it's
49:07not about accuracy or correctness
49:10necessarily and that's one of the
49:12consequences but it's not just this is
49:13more accurate it's more complex it's
49:15longer and the vocabulary has improved
49:19look they had lunch box I mean lunch box
49:23didn't figure in the first one or we
49:25have a sandwich and hamburgers and
49:27champagne and so on so this is the value
49:30of task repetition people have studied
49:33this say that there is a strong positive
49:36effect for task repetition now the
49:39evidence strongly supports the view that
49:41the previous experience of a specific
49:43task aids speakers - had shift their
49:46attention from processing the message
49:48content
49:49to working on formulations the message
49:52getting the students to do it again
49:54getting the students to do it again now
49:56why don't teach us do this all the time
49:59because they think it's gonna be boring
50:01things gonna be boring to do it again
50:03students will be bored I'll be bored
50:05no not if you change something just
50:07change one thing in the way that you do
50:09this for example you can change they can
50:13do the same task but I can do it with a
50:14different student yeah I can tell a
50:17story about what I did at the weekend
50:19first if I do it with Juan and then I do
50:22it with Maher say and then I tell it to
50:26Jose Luis and so on so I'm doing the
50:29same story but each time I'm doing it
50:31I'm doing it with another different
50:32student and each time there will be
50:34improvement in the classroom we can do
50:37this in typical organizations like this
50:40kind of onion I call it an onion so you
50:43have an outer circle of students around
50:45the outer so I'm demonstrating this in a
50:48conference in Ramallah in fact in
50:50Palestine you have an outer circle and
50:52you have an inner circle and maybe there
50:54they've done they've drawn their family
50:55tree yeah and they're describing or they
50:57got photos of their family they're
50:59describing their family to their partner
51:02and it is signal from the teacher the
51:04inner circle move around once they've
51:06got a new partner and they repeat the
51:09task the challenge is on online teaching
51:11is how can we organize this so the
51:13students are doing the task again but
51:16they're doing it with another partner
51:19and yeah the important thing here is
51:21that they get feedback between each
51:24iteration of the task so they can keep
51:26improving so they do the task they get
51:29feedback they repeat the task and they
51:31get more feedback and so on and as you
51:34saw with the example of the picnic
51:37the grammar gets added it starts off
51:41more lexical and the grammar kids added
51:44okay folks those are the five activities
51:47I've done the challenges you know how
51:49can you adapt these for the online
51:52teaching if that's what you're doing I
51:53think you can and I think particularly
51:56students constructing stories together
51:58from pictures where you show them the
52:00pictures and using the chat room that
52:01they put them together collaboratively
52:04but also as a homework activity taking a
52:09text turning it to a poem turning it
52:11back into a text and so on and then
52:13dicta glosses I think can work where and
52:18there's two ways of doing a dick box
52:19they can hear the text well they can see
52:21a text and then you take it away yeah so
52:23you can put it on the screen you can
52:25take it away and say okay together see
52:27if you can reconstruct the text okay
52:31folks that's the book that I'm
52:32referencing here which came out some
52:36time ago but it's got a lot of those
52:37practical ideas in the back published by
52:39Macmillan and that's it from me so I'm
52:44going to
52:47go back to the group and keep my chat
52:53window open wherever it is and let's see
52:57we've got five minutes or so see if
52:58we're going to address any other
53:00questions that you're burning to ask
53:06here they come
53:08about to think oh can we see the book
53:12again
53:13yes it's called uncovering grammar
53:16uncovering grammar by Scott Thornbury
53:18published by McMullen okay any questions
53:31thank you to all of you thank you and
53:34good luck I mean as I said before you
53:37have to do the math yeah you have to
53:39convert these ideas into Mandarin or
53:41Croatian or whatever it is that you're
53:43teaching and see if they work I think in
53:45principle there's no reason they
53:47shouldn't work of course some languages
53:49have you know in a sense more grammar
53:52certainly inflectional grammar than
53:54others but all languages have grammar
53:56and all languages have Alexis and the
53:59challenge to you is saying okay how can
54:01we adapt this to as I say to teaching
54:03Thai to teaching overdue to teaching
54:06Arabic or whatever
54:11thank you very much all of you
54:14it's great being with you how many
54:16people do we have in the end Alec my god
54:18202 it's must be every teacher in
54:22Australia who's teaching community
54:24languages well that's wonderful that
54:26you've put the time aside and I hope
54:30that you did get something out of this
54:32and that next time I meet you I'll meet
54:35you face to face
54:40Alex anything ah have you tried these
54:44principals non-english oh no I haven't
54:46and that's what I'm I'm saying that's
54:48for you to try I've only done them with
54:50English but I see no reason why they
54:51shouldn't work with other languages
54:54apart from English how do you
54:57differentiate teaching grammar at
54:59different levels yeah me the levels I my
55:02feeling is that you let the students in
55:04a sense to be your guide
55:06don't let the course book be your guide
55:08necessarily in terms of the level what
55:10grammar what level Road my time magazine
55:13story they were producing sentences they
55:16wanted to express sentences in the past
55:18technically they didn't have the part
55:20ends but yeah whatever the past is
55:22incredibly important if you can't talk
55:24about what you did at the weekend if you
55:26can't talk about when you first came to
55:28Australia then hmm you're really limited
55:30if you're always talking about I get up
55:32at 5 o'clock and I wash brush my teeth
55:34that's not really interesting pass the
55:36range say I say follow the students work
55:39they want to talk about let them talk
55:41about teasing the grammar that will
55:42enable them to do that
55:43the book again I love showing my book
55:46again that whoops I'm covering grammar
55:50it's got Thornbury published by
55:52macmillan that's me
55:57and
56:01introduce different grammar structures
56:02in the new language that they're
56:03learning verb at the end instead of
56:05beginning of the sins yeah I mean I
56:07think again through things like
56:09dictogloss so you give them a text which
56:11has got the new structures embedded in
56:13they they try to recreate it from memory
56:16they get it wrong they can compare it to
56:18the original take say oh the verbs cover
56:20the end I forgot about that yeah so
56:22using language in context grammar and
56:25can't remember grammar is about language
56:27in context then that may be a way of
56:30feeding it in rather than just lecturing
56:33them about the grammar so giving them
56:36examples in little stories little texts
56:38some languages have spoken language in
56:40written language yes okay that's true
56:43some languages have a sort of higher
56:46attic and a domotic form they have like
56:50Greek for example or Arabic etc
56:53depending again on what the Salone is
56:55need you will have to tailor those
56:59choices so giving them examples of
57:01spoken language transcriptions of short
57:04conversations etc to show the spoken
57:06language and maybe convert the spoken
57:08language into written language and vice
57:09versa take a dialogue and say okay
57:11here's a dialogue now turn it into a
57:13written text and so on I have an
57:18activity I didn't show you called paper
57:20conversations which works really well at
57:23the beginning of every lesson and I
57:25think it could work online and you just
57:27simply the students have a conversation
57:28but they're not talking they're writing
57:31it's like texting text text text text
57:33text so they text what did you do at the
57:35weekend and the other one takes I went
57:37to the beach and then one takes did you
57:40go alone no I went with my friends what
57:43did you eat what was the weather like
57:44blah blah blah they're writing now
57:45writing it down has the advantage that
57:47focuses their attention a little bit on
57:49the grammar but also it gives you the
57:51teacher something to look at you can
57:53pick it up and say oh okay not what did
57:56you do by the weekend but at the weekend
57:58yeah preposition mistake did you go
58:00beach no did you go to the bit Osetra
58:02cetera so it gives a teacher lots of
58:03data and then they can feed back to the
58:05learners okay i think alex is back
58:09online
58:09alex is it turned to will wrap up
58:13I want you to
58:15to any to unmute you
58:21you
58:25you
58:27okay that's great yes Here I am Thanks
58:31all right I'm not sure if you can still
58:33see me scar look thank you so so much it
58:35was really really interesting and I'm
58:37sure I speak on behalf of was actually
58:38208 people this evening which isn't too
58:42bad for this time of the day a lot of
58:45people are still working so look Scott
58:47that was really really interesting thank
58:48you so so much I'm gonna keep going I
58:50just need to pass on some information
58:51for our people we nearly already you can
58:54go back to Barcelona and into your daily
58:58activities and down we hope to see you
58:59in Australia sometime Scott that was
59:01really great thanks very very much
59:04all right okay
59:09all right so what we're gonna be doing
59:10everybody just before you go I'm going
59:12to ask you just very oh we can't do any
59:15screen show because Scott some Scott has
59:18actually taken over my screen so that
59:21doesn't matter too much what I'd like to
59:23do is if I can here we go I'll sleep I
59:26can share a screen with you and
59:29hopefully we will be able to just I just
59:32want to pass on some information
59:34anyway let me do it right okay look
59:37don't worry about it everybody I'd like
59:39to again thank everybody that came I'm
59:41just gonna plug plug his book this is
59:44the the new edition of Scott Thornberrys
59:47uncovering grammar okay
59:49I just like to let you know that the
59:53he's a he's a he's a brilliant speaking
59:57speaks all over the world he did say
59:58that it was for um for English but
1:00:02basically a lot of his ideas are
1:00:04relevant so if you go through this book
1:00:06I've actually used it quite a lot and
1:00:08it's great to get ideas now we've all
1:00:10got Alex I think sorry Alex I think you
1:00:14can probably open I've just made it
1:00:16available the screen if you want to try
1:00:18now thanks um thank you thank you thank
1:00:20you thank you alright there we go
1:00:22alright so we'll just have a quick look
1:00:24at that
1:00:25and let's just quickly
1:00:32all right doesn't matter about the book
1:00:33let's have a look at what I've got to
1:00:35tell you I've got some messages for you
1:00:36so just to go on about that particular
1:00:38about that particular book flow of ideas
1:00:42everybody very successful and and by all
1:00:45means if you if you meaning information
1:00:47I mean I've got it here we actually
1:00:48might even have a copy of the Federation
1:00:49wants to borrow but we've got one for
1:00:51what four thousand tweeters now and just
1:00:54before we let everybody go off to to
1:00:57dinner a lot of the material that we
1:00:58have in fact there will be all of it
1:01:01very soon is already on a Google
1:01:03classroom now you at this stage you'll
1:01:05need a gmail account that'll make a lot
1:01:09easier we're having issues with some hot
1:01:11mail accounts but that's okay just write
1:01:14to me and Mel implied shoot now if
1:01:17you've got some issues with it that's
1:01:19the Google classroom that's the code and
1:01:21you'll find on arm some videos of this
1:01:23as well as other instructional videos
1:01:25that the Federation's make now on that
1:01:28particular one don't forget that we've
1:01:30also got a YouTube channel if you just
1:01:31google or while you're on YouTube you'll
1:01:33see the videos on the new south wales
1:01:35federation chemicals youtube channel
1:01:38this thursday everybody is what we're
1:01:42doing a another teacher forum so if
1:01:45you're interested in getting together
1:01:47with other teachers and sharing ideas
1:01:48such as it may seem tonight so quite a
1:01:51few of you are very very up to speed
1:01:55very quick if you're with your your chat
1:01:58and your and your ideas and their
1:01:59suggestions so it's a great i'm know
1:02:01especially the ones gone online to share
1:02:04ideas so please in come along come to
1:02:07this some to this webinar it's a teacher
1:02:10forum you'll be able to do exactly what
1:02:12i did you can share your ideas or pass
1:02:14over the microphone to you and you can
1:02:15if you've got something send it to me
1:02:18and I can put it online and we can all
1:02:20see it that's this Thursday at 6 p.m.
1:02:22the other thing is that our next session
1:02:26is on the 25th of May and that's with a
1:02:31local but very popular speaker that's
1:02:34Matthew Absalom some of you may have
1:02:36seen him already at our conference again
1:02:39a teacher of a lot of English but a
1:02:43teacher of language and he's at
1:02:45in uni and he's going to be it was
1:02:48forced to go online like all of us and
1:02:50he's got some great ideas to share with
1:02:53you about what to do and what not to do
1:02:55when it comes to teaching online now
1:03:00everybody good night thank you very much
1:03:04please get in touch if you've got
1:03:05anything to say you've got our emails
1:03:08you've got our in all the emails that
1:03:11you've already received you've got phone
1:03:13numbers there so please do keep in touch
1:03:14and we'll see you at our next webinar
1:03:17we've got one this Thursday and the one
1:03:19next Monday and many more to come with
1:03:22some some special guests very special
1:03:25guests indeed all right so thank you
1:03:27everybody and good night don't forget
1:03:29this is recorded this is recorded well
1:03:30and we will

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of 'Grammaring' activities by SCOTT THORNBURY video master class by NSW Federation of Community Language Schools INC, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 9,564 words across 1,360 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to choose a caption track available on the video.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, caption language selection, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.