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Graham Hancock: They May Have Secretly Found Antarctica 300 Years Before Us! — Transcript

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0:00This could be the last time I speak
0:03about myself, my work, because there's a
0:05chance that I might not make it off the
0:07operating table this month. And a
0:09journalist who has very bad blood
0:11towards me has been trying to publish a
0:14story on me for more than 2 years now,
0:16and it will come out in the next [music]
0:17month or two, and I didn't want that to
0:19be the last word on my life.
0:21>> What do you want the last word of your
0:22life to be?
0:23>> I'm here to communicate about the
0:25possibility of a major forgotten episode
0:27in human story. I'm talking about a lost
0:30civilization.
0:32>> So, most people think civilization
0:33started 6,000 years ago?
0:35>> Yes.
0:35>> But you believe there's strong evidence
0:37that there could have been a previous
0:38civilization?
0:39>> 20,000 [music] years ago, and I'm going
0:41to present the evidence for that here,
0:42Stephen. And it suggests a golden age
0:45where there was no violence, no [music]
0:46cruelty, where great healers and sages
0:48were at work. They're extremely
0:50sophisticated. [music] However, if you
0:52follow the myths further, as I've done,
0:54you find something odd happens. You find
0:56that they stepped away from the original
0:57purity and become a culture that begins
0:59to impose its power on others around the
1:01world. And then, sewn into those myths
1:04is scientific information which record a
1:06gigantic cataclysm all but wiping out
1:09the human race.
1:10>> If what you're saying is true, what does
1:12that mean for our lives? I guess also
1:14our future.
1:14>> Well, there's always this feeling in the
1:16myths that we brought [music] this upon
1:18ourselves. And when I look at our
1:19civilization today, I see a civilization
1:21[music] that ticks all the mythological
1:23boxes for the next lost civilization,
1:25and that we are most likely to be the
1:27cause of that cataclysm ourselves,
1:29unless we wake up.
1:32>> Graham Hancock, what will you care about
1:35on your last day?
1:38>> Most of all,
1:44>> This is super interesting to me. My team
1:46gave me this report to show me how many
1:47of you that watch this show subscribe,
1:49and some of you have told us, according
1:50to this, that you are unsubscribed from
1:52the channel randomly. So, a favor to ask
1:54all of you, please could you check right
1:56now if you've hit the subscribe button.
1:57if you are regular viewer of the show
1:59and you like what we do here. We're
2:00approaching quite a significant landmark
2:02on this show in terms of a subscriber
2:03number. So, if there was one simple,
2:05free thing that you could do to help us,
2:07my team, everyone here, to keep this
2:09show free, to keep it improving year
2:11over year and week over week, it is just
2:13to hit that subscribe button and to
2:14double-check if you've hit it. Only
2:16thing I'll ever ask of you.
2:17Do we have a deal?
2:18If you do it, I'll tell you what I'll
2:19do. I'll make sure
2:21every single week, every single month,
2:23we fight harder and harder and harder
2:24and harder to bring you the guests and
2:25conversations that you want to hear.
2:27I've stayed true to that promise since
2:28the very beginning of The Diary of a
2:29CEO, and I will not let you down. Please
2:32help us. Really appreciate it. Let's get
2:34on with the show.
2:35>> [music]
2:38>> Graham Hancock, I guess the first
2:40question I wanted to ask you is what is
2:42it you've committed the last more than
2:4430 years of your life to understanding?
2:47>> What it is is a a puzzle.
2:50I'm puzzled by aspects of the human
2:53past.
2:55There could be
2:57and I think there's a lot to suggest
2:59there was a major forgotten episode in
3:01the human story. That's why I refer to
3:04us as a species with amnesia. And when I
3:07use that phrase, I need to give credit
3:09to Immanuel Velikovsky, who wrote a book
3:11called Mankind in Amnesia. I think we
3:14are a species with amnesia. I think we
3:16have forgotten something very important
3:18in our own past. And when I turn to the
3:21experts, I find much of what they say
3:23very interesting and very useful. But
3:26some of what they say extremely
3:27unsatisfactory and and not responding to
3:31the problems that that I have in the
3:33past. And that's led me to to take my
3:36own approach to the past, to look at
3:38that, and and to offer
3:40uh readers, cuz I'm mainly an author,
3:42occasionally make TV shows, to offer
3:44them an alternative point of view, which
3:46is rational and and and solidly based,
3:50but which is contrary
3:52to key aspects of the mainstream
3:54narrative. We only have decipherable
3:57written scripts from the last 5 and 1/2
4:00thousand years maximum. Before that, we
4:02don't have any any writing that we can
4:05at any rate read. Go back 10, 12, 15,
4:0820,000 years, all you can base it on
4:11from an archaeological point of view is
4:13what they can dig out of the ground. And
4:16I think what they're missing, the
4:18ancients did leave us memories of what
4:20they went through. We have myths and
4:23traditions and scriptures from all
4:26around the world which record a gigantic
4:30cataclysm affecting the human race and
4:33all but wiping out the human race.
4:35Everybody knows the story of the flood
4:37of Noah. Of course, the flood of Noah is
4:39just an one example of hundreds like
4:42that of stories from around the world.
4:45Uh archaeologists pour scorn on Plato's
4:48story of Atlantis. Uh but Atlantis is
4:50another of those stories that remembers
4:52a global flood that wiped out a former
4:55era of existence leaving only a few
4:57survivors. And the archaeological
4:59response to them is
5:01there was a local river flood.
5:04They exaggerated it. It was a big deal
5:06for them, so they said it happened to
5:07the whole world. And I'm sick of
5:08archaeologists saying that. This is the
5:10memory banks of our species. This is the
5:13record the only record we have of a
5:15period before 6,000 years ago. And we
5:18shouldn't despise it and scorn it as
5:20primitive superstition. We should say
5:22what can we find in here that we can
5:24coordinate with scientific facts that
5:26we're aware of. Let's see if there's
5:28something to this rather than just
5:30dismissing it. Many of these myths
5:33contain
5:34imagery and a series of numbers. A very
5:37important academic study published in
5:39the 1960s, a book called Hamlet's Mill
5:43by Giorgio de Santillana, Professor of
5:45the History of Science at Massachusetts
5:47Institute of Technology and head of the
5:48foundation Professor of history of
5:50science. This is not me speaking. This
5:51is major major historians of science in
5:53the 1960s. They found encoded in those
5:57myths numbers and imagery that could
5:59only relate to one thing and that's an
6:01obscure astronomical phenomenon called
6:03the precession of the equinoxes. I'm not
6:05going to go into the technical details,
6:07but to observe it and to record it and
6:09to predict it to predict its effects in
6:11the future involves very precise
6:13astronomical observations maintained
6:15over a very long period of time,
6:17hundreds and hundreds of years at least.
6:19So here we have myths of a global
6:20cataclysm. There is just so much else.
6:23There are ancient maps that show the
6:24world as it looked during the ice age
6:26again dismissed as just total
6:28coincidence and not significant by
6:29archaeology. I feel that archaeology has
6:32failed miserably in providing a
6:34nurturing satisfying answer to the
6:36questions we all have.
6:38>> So when you say global cataclysm,
6:41what does that mean? Means that some
6:43something hit the planet, there was we
6:45were wiped out?
6:46>> Yeah, there there there are a number of
6:48options and again I need to stress this
6:50because because there's so much
6:52propaganda in this business I'll be
6:53immediately accused of lunatic fringe.
6:56The solid science that's been done on
6:58this
6:59is twofold. One aspect of it, the one
7:02that I think it I find most persuasive
7:04is called the Younger Dryas impact
7:06hypothesis and this is a mainstream
7:08hypothesis, but it is severely
7:11criticized within academia. The
7:13hypothesis is that
7:15>> about 20,000 years ago
7:17>> [snorts]
7:18>> a very large comet
7:20came in from deep space and went into
7:22orbit around the sun.
7:24This would be a comet of the diameter of
7:26100 km, maybe 200. Comes in, gets
7:30captured by the sun's gravity, goes into
7:32an orbit. That orbit crosses the orbit
7:34of the earth.
7:35While you're dealing with one large
7:38object, the chances of getting hit are
7:40extremely low. It would be very bad if
7:42you did, but very low. Trouble is
7:46nobody disputes this. Once comets are
7:48caught by the gravitational field of a
7:50very large planet or of a sun, they
7:52start to break up into multiple parts,
7:55and this is what happened to the Younger
7:56Dryas comet. Instead of being a single
7:58bullet, it became a shotgun blast. It
8:00became thousands and thousands of
8:02objects, of which we've cataloged quite
8:04a lot. Numbers of them, comet Encke is
8:07the best known bit of that
8:09former comet. Many of the academics who
8:11look at this think that comet Encke,
8:13which is about 6 km in diameter and
8:15which does cross the orbit of the Earth,
8:17they think that that was the source
8:19comet. But whereas the other team are
8:21saying, "No, that's a bit of the source
8:22comet. There were many other bits as
8:24well." And 12,800 years ago, 12,860
8:28approximately, the Earth went into a
8:30storm of these fragments. None of them
8:34big enough to compare with the object
8:35that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million
8:38years ago,
8:39but all over the Well, the Earth is
8:40turning, this stuff comes in. They found
8:43it in the west coast of North America,
8:44they found it in Belgium, and they found
8:47it as far east as Syria. So, it's like
8:50the Earth turns and this stuff is just
8:51coming in. Most of it is blowing up in
8:54the air. It isn't even hitting the
8:55ground. But an airburst from an object
8:58that might be 100 m in diameter is
8:59equivalent to a very substantial nuclear
9:01blast. So, their argument is the Earth
9:04was hit by
9:06a comet storm. And this they then argue,
9:09and I think they're right, uh explains
9:11what happened then. Because 12,800 years
9:13ago,
9:14we were still in the ice age,
9:16uh but the Earth was coming out of the
9:18ice age. In fact, for about 1,000, maybe
9:212,000 years before that, the Earth had
9:23been getting warmer, getting quite nice.
9:26And you would normally expect that to
9:28continue. But then suddenly, 12,800
9:31years ago, give or take 60 years,
9:34there's a huge interruption. There's a
9:36radical change. The earth, instead of
9:38warming, it suddenly goes back into a
9:41massive deep freeze. And this is the
9:43time when all the famous
9:46big animals of the ice age, the
9:47megafauna, are wiped out. The woolly
9:49mammoths, the mastodons, the giant
9:52sloths, these things like 14 ft tall,
9:54you know, they're all they're all wiped
9:56out in that window around about 12,800
9:58years ago. And most important of all is
10:01a very mysterious sea level rise that
10:03occurs then.
10:05This you would not expect when the earth
10:06is entering a cold phase.
10:08Normally, when earth enters a cold
10:10phase, ice accumulates on the existing
10:12ice caps.
10:13It doesn't melt and go into the sea. So,
10:17the next thing is, how do we explain
10:18this sudden rise in sea levels at the
10:20beginning of Younger Dryas? It shouldn't
10:22have happened.
10:23The comet theory explains it perfectly.
10:25The the the mass, the impact, the heat,
10:28the air bursts, that would have been
10:29enough to send the ice sheets into
10:31meltdown and to
10:33cause this pulse of meltwater. Then the
10:35freeze sets in.
10:37You have about 1,200 years of freezing
10:40desperately cold conditions. And then
10:42again, 11,600 years ago, whoomph, it
10:45suddenly warms up. I mean, these are
10:46radical climate changes. They're beyond
10:48anything that's happening now. And uh I
10:51I think explanations are needed for
10:52them. And because 12,800 years ago may
10:55sound a long time ago, but it's really
10:57yesterday in the human story. Uh so,
11:00something very big
11:02happened to the earth and happened to
11:04our ancestors 12,800 years ago. If it
11:07wasn't a comet, another theory that's
11:09been put forward is a radical change in
11:11solar activity. This might have been
11:12involved with it as well. I
11:14don't find that as persuasive as the
11:16Younger Dryas impact hypothesis. And you
11:18know, maybe some other explanation will
11:20come up. But what nobody disputes is
11:21that the Younger Dryas was a
11:22catastrophe.
11:24Uh it was global
11:26uh and and it had huge effects.
11:28>> You um you chose intentionally to come
11:30and have this conversation today?
11:33>> W-
11:34>> today?
11:35>> Well, I've been quite unwell, really
11:37noticeably unwell since
11:40January, February this year,
11:42particularly very
11:44very short of breath. It's It's because
11:45of the one of the failed valves in my my
11:48heart is
11:49causing blood to regurgitate inside the
11:51heart rather than pumping it through the
11:53body. And that means that oxygenated
11:54blood is not getting to my lungs. I
11:57probably would live another two or three
11:59years without the surgery, maybe maybe
12:01even five. But the quality of life would
12:03be very low. I I can't even walk up
12:05three stairs without being being
12:06exhausted at the moment. So, I've
12:08definitely decided to to have the
12:09surgery. Why am I doing this interview
12:11now rather than postponing it until
12:13after the surgery and I've recovered?
12:14Well, there's a tiny chance, absolutely
12:17minuscule chance,
12:19that I might not make it off the
12:20operating table.
12:21>> This month?
12:22>> Yeah.
12:23This month. And if that were the case,
12:26this would be
12:27the last time I've spoken about myself,
12:30my work,
12:31my life, challenges I faced
12:33in an open forum like this. And And And
12:36I I
12:37I choose to do that, and I'm going to
12:38say specifically why
12:40without giving without mentioning names.
12:43I choose to do that because a journalist
12:46who has very bad blood towards me
12:49has been trying to publish a story on me
12:52for more than two years now.
12:54And it will come out in the next in the
12:56next month or two. And I didn't want
12:57that to be the last word on my life.
13:00That's why I'm here, Stephen.
13:03>> What do you want the last word of your
13:04life to be?
13:05>> I [sighs and gasps] would
13:07I would hope that
13:08people will come to understand that I'm
13:10not the person that
13:13a very small minority
13:15of archaeologists have mobilized social
13:17media to present me as. I'm not a
13:19grifter. I'm not a hoaxer. I'm not a con
13:22man. I'm deeply committed to this. I've
13:24devoted my my to it for more than for
13:26more than 30 years. I'm passionate about
13:29it. It matters [clears throat] to me.
13:30And I think again, I'll be laughed at
13:32for saying this, but I feel called to do
13:34this. I feel I
13:37I feel it's my obligation and my
13:39responsibility to do this.
13:41>> How is that disputed? Cuz I I I guess I
13:44need to understand human history to
13:45understand why
13:47the the the fundamental belief that you
13:49have that there was a civilization that
13:51we aren't talking about.
13:53>> Mhm.
13:53>> I I'd like to be clear
13:55>> It's not a belief. Um this is another is
13:57a mistake that my that my critics of
13:59often make. They they they think that
14:00I'm dealing with some sort of belief
14:01system or some sort of cult here. No,
14:03I'm not. I'm I'm just puzzled. I'm just
14:06puzzled by the past and I'm puzzled by
14:09the memories that have been
14:11passed down to us. And I'm puzzled that
14:13those memories
14:14concur all around the world on a serious
14:18cataclysmic event.
14:19>> What is it that the your your people
14:21that aren't puzzled and are certain
14:23belief?
14:23>> Yeah, they think that um glacial lakes
14:26in North America uh gradually grew in
14:29size and over spilled the ice dams that
14:32held them in place and that the um water
14:35from those lakes, some of it went into
14:38the Atlantic Ocean and cut the Gulf
14:39Stream.
14:40I don't dispute that. Glacial lakes were
14:42involved, but those lakes were filled up
14:44at a
14:45massive speed. Nobody disputes that the
14:48Younger Dryas was a cataclysmic event.
14:50It's just that the degree of the
14:51cataclysm that's disputed and what
14:53caused it that's disputed.
14:55>> But everyone agrees that humans are
14:58300 15,000 years old.
15:01>> at present. When I started on this quest
15:03back back in the late '80s, early '90s,
15:06it was felt that
15:08anatomically modern human beings had not
15:10existed for more than 50,000 years. Very
15:14recent, really. But this turned out to
15:16be complete rubbish because anatomically
15:18modern humans are much older than 50,000
15:20years ago. We have 196,000
15:23year-old anatomically modern human
15:25remains from Ethiopia. And then finally
15:29315,000
15:31years ago, a recent find in Jebel Irhoud
15:35in Morocco,
15:36again anatomically modern humans. So we
15:39can say that
15:41if we define ourselves by
15:44our anatomy,
15:45uh brain size,
15:48capacity of the skull, if we define
15:49ourselves in those ways, we've been
15:51around for at least 315,000 years and
15:53probably much longer. That's That's just
15:55an accident of discovery. And that's one
15:57of the things that puzzles me. If we're
16:00anatomically modern, if we've got all
16:01the modern kit, if we've got the same
16:03brains, we've got the same neurology,
16:05everything is there, why do we wait
16:09more than 300,000 years to establish
16:13something recognizable as a human
16:15civilization? Why do we wait so long? We
16:17got all the kit. There's evidence that
16:20that our ancestors were aware of
16:22agriculture, just chose not to use it
16:24much much much earlier than that. The
16:27complex of
16:28events that leads to a city-based
16:31civilization,
16:32which is the kind of civilization we
16:34have now all over the world, that you
16:37can only really trace that back to 6,000
16:39years ago.
16:41Yes, you can say that before 6,000 years
16:43ago there was build-up to what became
16:46the high civilizations.
16:48But my question is why not much earlier?
16:51Why
16:52Why did we wait until that moment? And I
16:55don't find a satisfactory answer to that
16:56question, except perhaps we didn't wait.
16:58Perhaps we're missing part of our story.
17:01And when I say a lost civilization, I do
17:04not mean a civilization like ours. I do
17:07not mean an industrial civilization. I
17:09don't mean they had cell phones or flew
17:12to the moon or any of that I
17:14think they were very different
17:15civilization from ours, but they had
17:17conquered a number of peaks. And one of
17:20those peaks was navigation and ocean
17:23seafaring, hence the survival of maps
17:26which show the world as it looked during
17:28the ice age. And another was astronomy,
17:31uh and another really important
17:34breakthrough evidenced by by the ancient
17:36maps, but particularly a category of
17:38maps called the Portolanos,
17:40is accurate relative longitudes. This is
17:43the Orontius Finaeus map. It shows
17:45Antarctica
17:46uh right there.
17:48Uh and and um
17:50this is interesting cuz this map was
17:51drawn in 1531.
17:53Uh the problem is that our civilization
17:56didn't discover Antarctica until 1820.
17:59So, its appearance on a map drawn in
18:011521,
18:03particularly when we know that the map
18:05was based on older source maps, and the
18:08mapmaker tells us in his own legend that
18:10he has uncovered material previously
18:13hidden in darkness,
18:14when we find that,
18:16uh we have to begin to wonder what is
18:18what is going on here. Had somebody
18:20found Antarctica long before long before
18:23we did,
18:24uh and mapped it with extremely accurate
18:26relative longitudes. And that's
18:28important because our civilization
18:31didn't crack the longitude problem until
18:33the mid-18th century. What that meant
18:35was that if you're on a vessel sailing
18:37west or east, uh you might be 300 mi
18:41closer to a coastline than you think you
18:44are. And suddenly, you're on it in the
18:46night and you're dead. Once you've got
18:47longitude worked out, you know exactly
18:49where you are. And we didn't get that
18:50until 1750, 1760s there about with
18:53Harrison's chronometer. So, finding good
18:56longitudes on very ancient maps is
18:57another puzzle that I don't think
18:58archaeologists solved.
19:00>> So, you think there could have been a
19:01civilization 20,000 years ago which was
19:03before this Younger Dryas moment where
19:06um I mean, I've got this photo here
19:07which I'll throw up on the screen
19:09I think you say is evidence that
19:11something took place.
19:12>> It is. That's That's the Younger Dryas
19:13boundary. And I'm with Alan West, who's
19:16one of the scientists from the from the
19:17comet research group who are working on
19:19the Younger Dryas hypothesis. And our
19:21hands are on that black stripe running
19:24through the middle of the draw. And that
19:25is soot. That is evidence of wildfires
19:28burning.
19:30It's full of nanodiamonds, tiny little
19:32diamonds, microscopic size, which are
19:34classic product of comet impacts,
19:37microspherules, some platinum, some
19:39iridium. All signatures of a cometary
19:42impact. And there it is. It's about 5 in
19:45thick. That layer is the Younger Dryas
19:46boundary layer. It dates to 12,800 years
19:49ago.
19:50>> So, for anyone that can't see, it's just
19:52like a slice of earth and there's this
19:53black line going through through the
19:55earth.
19:55>> We're in a draw here where a river has
19:57cut a channel. And it's exposed the
19:59sides of the channel. And on the sides
20:01of the channel, we can see this black
20:02stripe running through. And that is
20:04precisely the Younger Dryas boundary.
20:06>> And the current hypothesis is from a lot
20:08of archaeologists is there wasn't a
20:09human civilization before this point,
20:1212,000 years ago. But you believe
20:13there's strong evidence that there could
20:15have been.
20:15>> Yes.
20:16>> So, civilization then in your definition
20:17of the word, how do you define that? A
20:20group of people gathering and working
20:22together?
20:22>> Fundamentally, it involves It involves
20:25the willing organization or the
20:27unwilling organization of labor. If you
20:29look at a site like Göbekli Tepe in
20:31Turkey, we have it on our timeline here
20:33somewhere. It's 11,600
20:36years old. This is really an
20:39extraordinary site. It's a It's a very
20:41sophisticated site. It's very large. It
20:44consists of large T-shaped megaliths
20:46that can weigh up to 20 tons. There are
20:49precise astronomical alignments in it.
20:52This was not done by two or three people
20:54working together. This was
20:56Well, that's the Göbekli Tepe today
20:57covered by a modern canopy to keep Fair
21:01enough to keep the the weather off it
21:03cuz it was previously deliberately
21:04buried by its builders.
21:07But of course, there's much more around.
21:09Hundreds and hundreds more pillars are
21:10still underground. We know they're there
21:12because of ground penetrating radar, but
21:14they've not been excavated yet. So So
21:16this was a major project. And
21:18interestingly, the people who built
21:20Göbekli Tepe at that at the time Göbekli
21:22Tepe began, there was no agriculture
21:25happening there. They were all
21:27hunter-gatherers.
21:28>> Mhm.
21:29>> Nevertheless, they did something that
21:30archaeologists used to say
21:32hunter-gatherers couldn't do. They
21:33organized themselves. They made a huge
21:36project. They implemented it and they
21:38delivered it. And Göbekli Tepe is not
21:39alone. It's one of dozens of sites like
21:42that all over Anatolia in in in Turkey.
21:45This was a highly organized
21:46sophisticated hunter-gatherer
21:48civilization that was involved in making
21:50this place.
21:51>> I'm I'm a little bit confused. So if the
21:53ice age ended 11,700 years ago,
21:56>> Yeah.
21:56>> and Göbekli Tepe is 11,600 years ago,
22:00>> Mhm.
22:00>> that means there's a 100-year gap
22:02between the end of the ice age and
22:04something as sophisticated as Göbekli
22:06Tepe.
22:06>> Not exactly because because dates in
22:09this frame they're not spot-on accurate
22:12dates. Some will say the ice age ended
22:1411,600. Some will say it ended 11,700
22:18years ago. But the fact is that in this
22:20window, the world was warming up again.
22:23It was getting better. And that's when
22:25this project was was created. And the
22:28mystery is mystery for for
22:29archaeologists anyway is that it was
22:31hunter-gatherers. And archaeologists are
22:33now having to come to terms with that.
22:35You see, the idea was you had to have an
22:36agricultural community first
22:39in order to create projects like this
22:42because that allows people to become
22:43specialists. If you generate a food
22:46surplus that you can rely on, then you
22:48can take people with certain skills and
22:50say focus on that. Become an astronomer.
22:52Become an architect. Become an engineer.
22:54We'll support you in doing that. That
22:56was the idea and that was why it was
22:57felt that something like Göbekli Tepe
22:59couldn't be built until about 6,000
23:01years ago when there was widespread
23:03agriculture, but that turned out not to
23:05be true.
23:06Uh it was built by hunter-gatherers, but
23:08within a thousand years of it being
23:09built, agriculture becomes present in
23:12that whole area.
23:13>> Mhm.
23:14>> Origins of agriculture are definitely
23:16earlier than we've than we've been
23:18taught.
23:19>> So, I I funny cuz I I don't know a lot
23:21about the ice age, but humans survived
23:23the ice age?
23:23>> Oh god, yes. We we we we did. It's just
23:26It's just um
23:28Where do you want to be during an ice
23:30age? That's the question.
23:32>> What are my options?
23:34>> If you were a rational being, which most
23:36human beings are,
23:37you would immediately exclude northern
23:39Europe.
23:40>> Mhm.
23:40>> Absolutely [clears throat]
23:41no point in being in that frozen,
23:43miserable wilderness.
23:45>> Mhm.
23:45>> You'd immediately [clears throat]
23:46exclude the northern part of North
23:47America, too. No point in being there.
23:50It's just horrible at that time.
23:52Siberia, pretty rough.
23:55No, you'd look for the tropics. You'd go
23:57you'd go down close to the equator.
23:59You'd go to the places that weren't
24:01affected by the ice age, that were
24:03actually the best real estate on Earth.
24:05That's where you'd go. That's why uh if
24:08we are looking for
24:11a missing episode in the human story,
24:13we're wasting our time looking for it in
24:15northern Europe or North America. Uh we
24:18should be looking for it in Mexico. We
24:21should be looking for it in India. We
24:22should be looking for it in Indonesia.
24:25We should be looking for it uh
24:27around Papua New Guinea. All of these
24:30areas that were that were really great
24:32places to live during the ice age.
24:34That's That's the kind of place that the
24:35sort of civilization I'm talking about
24:37could have thrived.
24:38>> What is the difference, you know, cuz on
24:39here it says the earliest known humans
24:41were 300,000 odd years ago?
24:43>> Yeah.
24:43>> What is the difference between these
24:45humans 300,000 years ago and the
24:48civilization you're describing 20,000
24:50years ago that you believe existed?
24:52>> Apart from what is perhaps wrongly
24:55described as a slight refinement in
24:57human features, natural selection
24:59operating on what humans perceive as
25:01beauty, I don't know, but otherwise the
25:03same.
25:04>> The same?
25:04>> The same, yeah. Yeah. And again, that's
25:06not that's not disputed. Nobody's saying
25:08that Jebel Irhoud human beings were
25:11somehow different from us. They're
25:12anatomically modern humans.
25:14>> But how did they live um
25:16versus your definition of a
25:17civilization?
25:19>> They lived a simple hunter-gatherer
25:20life.
25:21>> Okay, in small groups.
25:22>> Yeah. But somehow
25:25around 11,600 years ago
25:27people started accumulating
25:30monuments that can only be made with
25:32large groups and organized organized
25:34labor. You've got to you you have to
25:36have a system. You have to have play
25:37can't build something like Göbekli Tepe
25:38without planning it out in advance.
25:40You've got to draw it out somehow. There
25:41has to be a plan. It's not something you
25:43just wing.
25:45Uh so so there has to there's a missing
25:47background to all of that which bothers
25:49me.
25:49>> And again, so most people think
25:50civilization started what, 6,000 years
25:53ago?
25:54>> Yes, that would
25:55that would be when civilizations become
25:57archaeologically visible. So you have uh
26:01ancient Sumer, Mesopotamia.
26:04Uh which
26:06roughly 3,500 I'm going to use BC
26:09because everybody's familiar with that.
26:10There are roughly 3,500 BC
26:14which is 5,500 years ago, approximately,
26:17we start seeing cities being built. We
26:19start seeing the beginnings of writing
26:20taking place round about the same time.
26:23The same thing is happening in Egypt.
26:24Maybe a couple of hundred years later,
26:26but the new work that's being done in
26:28Egypt is pushing Egypt much closer to to
26:31Sumer.
26:32Narrowing that that window.
26:34Effectively, you can say that these two
26:35civilizations become archaeologically
26:38visible at the same time. And uh they're
26:40not alone because on the other side of
26:42the world in Peru uh there's a
26:45civilization now recognized called the
26:46Caral Supe civilization which built
26:49pyramids uh which also goes back 5,500
26:52years. Uh, and and this is one of the
26:55mysteries I'm I'm looking at now is is
26:57why we have these
26:59apparently coincidental emergence of
27:02high civilizations in the same window
27:05all around the world. Indus Valley
27:07Civilization, roughly the same, 5,000
27:09years old. Yeah, we're looking at Caral
27:12here, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
27:14And these classic these The feature is
27:17these circular plazas in front of them
27:19and then the pyramid with her.
27:20And and uh, you know, these were not and
27:23not expected in Peru. When
27:25archaeologists think of Peru, they tend
27:27to think of Machu Picchu, the Inca
27:29civilization. That's what gets all the
27:32coverage.
27:32>> And that's 600 years ago.
27:33>> That's 600 years ago. That's yesterday.
27:36Whereas these Caral Supe pyramids,
27:40Caral, Aspero, Bandurria,
27:43Penico, these ones are
27:46much older. Thousands of years older.
27:49They're extremely sophisticated. They're
27:51built with an earthquake-proof
27:53technology. They
27:55instead of using blocks, they put small
27:57stones in in textile bags. Um, those
28:01allow a certain amount of shifting, so
28:03the thing doesn't collapse in an
28:04earthquake. And this is 5,500 years old
28:07getting on. So, again, not an
28:10agricultural civilization at the at that
28:12time. They're a hunter-gatherer
28:14civilization. So, so archaeologists are
28:16having to confront a reversal of their
28:18model at the moment. And I think there's
28:20room in that reversal of the model for a
28:22forgotten episode in the human story.
28:25>> Tell me about this forgotten episode in
28:26the human story.
28:28>> Yeah, it's uh, it's remembered it's
28:30remembered all around the world as a
28:32golden age, where there was no violence,
28:35no cruelty.
28:36Um, where great healers and sages were
28:40at work. Where powers that are scorned
28:44in our society today, such as telepathy
28:47and telekinesis, which are regarded as
28:50completely non-existent by our
28:51scientists,
28:53uh were regarded as a matter of fact of
28:55life in in in this ancient world. That's
28:59uh a civilization that emerged out of
29:02shamanism uh and
29:05made something good.
29:06But then,
29:08if you follow the myths further as I've
29:09done, you find something odd happens.
29:12You find
29:14that they stepped away from the original
29:17purity.
29:18That they've become
29:21a culture that begins to impose its
29:22power on others around the world. And
29:26that's always given as the reason for
29:28the cataclysm in the myths that that we
29:30angered the gods. It might have been
29:32with our noise. It might have been with
29:33our irreverence. We angered the gods and
29:36they sent a flood. They weren't happy
29:39with their creation. They wanted to
29:41start again, wipe the slate clean. And
29:44so there's this There's always this
29:45feeling in the myths, and it's And I
29:47can't explain it. I don't know what what
29:49it comes from, but it's always there.
29:51Is that in some way we ourselves
29:56brought this upon ourselves.
29:57>> Is this those people not understanding
29:59the forces of Mother Nature
30:01and trying to sort of justify it as
30:04uh
30:05>> Or or perhaps a deeper understanding of
30:07the forces of Mother Nature.
30:08>> Maybe.
30:08>> Perhaps the way that human beings are
30:10operating in the world today um should
30:14be
30:15included amongst the forces of nature.
30:17We we are a geological force. Uh and
30:20worse than that, we're a psychic force,
30:22which is full of anger and hatred and
30:24suspicion and and and mutual
30:26destruction. That's not going to be good
30:28for nature. That's [laughter]
30:30That's going to be disturbing. We're an
30:32integrated system in my view. We we
30:34we're not separate. Human beings are
30:35part of all of this, and what we do
30:37affects all of that. And that's what the
30:39ancient myths seem to testify to.
30:42So,
30:43if I may finish on that,
30:46when I look at our civilization today, I
30:48I don't want to go off on a rant, but
30:49when I look at our civilization today, I
30:51see a civilization that ticks all the
30:53mythological boxes, every single one,
30:56for the next lost civilization. And I
30:59envisage a situation
31:0110 or 15,000 years from now, when we
31:04will be a myth,
31:06a fantasy,
31:07that our
31:08our ancestors
31:10actually could speak to one another on
31:12opposite sides of the planet, that our
31:13ancestors, they could fly to the moon.
31:16Uh, you know, they could go to the
31:17depths of the ocean. The archaeologists
31:19of that time will say, "Complete
31:20fantasy, just made up, never happened."
31:23But it did.
31:25We're that lost civilization.
31:28And we don't need a comet, and we don't
31:30need solar activity, because of we're so
31:33psychically messed up as a species,
31:35we'll probably end up doing it to
31:36ourselves.
31:39That's what nuclear weapons are about,
31:40mass species suicide.
31:46And the mental
31:47processes that drive that,
31:50very dangerous,
31:51very effective of the world we live in.
31:55>> [sighs]
31:56>> Hatred is a
31:57psychic force, and
32:00the way it's being generated around the
32:01world at the moment and mobilized and
32:03focused,
32:04is um it's got to be bad for all of us.
32:07>> Especially when we have such powers to
32:09self-destruct.
32:10>> Oh, it's terrible. This
32:11This is what drives me nuts, is is
32:14looking at the low consciousness level
32:16of the so-called leaders on this planet.
32:19When I look around the whole bunch of
32:21them,
32:22I just see very low consciousness
32:24individuals who define everything in
32:27material terms,
32:29uh who who are who are
32:31who are focused on
32:33This also gets me into trouble, but I
32:37I think nationalism something that
32:38humanity needs to grow out of. We need
32:41to grow out of nationalism. It's just an
32:43extension of tribalism. We need to grow
32:46out of it soon. And let me be clear, I
32:49am not talking about world government. I
32:52don't want anything like I don't want
32:54any government. I'm an anarchist
32:55basically. That's what anarchy means. It
32:57means without government. I don't want
32:59any government at all. But we have to
33:02get past this notion that by accident I
33:05was born with this particular skin, you
33:07know. The notion is that this these
33:09accidents of birth define us. That we
33:12must somehow massively respect and love
33:15people who look like us and and and kind
33:17of hate and fear people who don't look
33:19like us. We have to get past that. We
33:21have to get past that as a species. It's
33:23really important. All human beings
33:25everywhere all the same fundamentally.
33:27Of course we're vastly diverse. We have
33:29we have incredible different gifts.
33:32I value and appreciate the differences
33:35in different cultures all around the
33:37world. This is wonderful, but it doesn't
33:39have to come with and we are better than
33:40you. And we're going to kill you because
33:42you don't share our ideas. This is
33:45insane. It's it's crazy. We're not a
33:47mature species. We're we're a childish
33:49species and leading our species are
33:52leaders who have the mentality of
33:56deranged teenagers.
33:58>> We elected them.
33:59>> Yeah, we did. Very unfortunately, which
34:02shows how easy it is to manipulate the
34:06narrative in the world today. Today who
34:08wins in elections isn't the best person.
34:11Isn't the good person. Isn't the person
34:13who's going to do good. It's the best
34:14communicator who wins.
34:16>> So this
34:17ancient civilization that we could have
34:18theoretically forgotten, you were
34:19somewhat implying that maybe they were
34:21right that their own actions
34:24caused the
34:26great flood as they say. They they they
34:28talk about it in mythology.
34:29>> floated that notion, yeah. Yeah. They
34:31might be might have been. but it's
34:33enough to say that that's what they
34:34believed.
34:35Because that's what all the myths say.
34:37The Noah story is prefigured in ancient
34:39Sumer,
34:40um with um
34:42an almost identical flood myth. The gods
34:45are angry.
34:46A great flood is going to be sent. The
34:48intention is to wipe out humanity.
34:51But this this god who's called Enki
34:54says to Atrahasis, "I'm going to save
34:56you.
34:57Build a boat. Build it now, a big one.
35:00Put into it the seeds of all things that
35:02you will need. Bring each animal of
35:04every kind into your boat. This is This
35:06is a kind of survival ark, which is
35:09exactly the same as Noah. Noah's ark is
35:11just copied on that. It's just borrowed
35:12from that.
35:13>> And to people that say, "Well, these are
35:14just stories. These are fictions that
35:16someone wrote and then they passed them
35:17down and there's no truth in these
35:18things at all."
35:19>> They're welcome to say that. Uh I I I
35:21just happen to think they're not. And
35:23And my job has been to make that case. I
35:26do not claim that I have proved there
35:29was a lost civilization. Any
35:30archaeologist who says Hancock claims
35:32he's proved that is lying. I don't claim
35:34that. I claim I'm puzzled and mystified
35:36and I'm going to I'm going to com-
35:38plete that journey as long as I can. I'm
35:41going to carry on investigating and
35:42looking into all aspects of this because
35:45that's what I'm here to do.
35:47>> And that lost civilization, you said
35:48they were sea-bearing potentially.
35:50>> Sea-faring, yeah. Yeah.
35:51>> Which means they had boats.
35:52>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we know for example that
35:55anatomically modern human beings uh
35:58reached Australia 60,000 years ago. So,
36:00that those involve significant sea
36:01journeys. They reached Cyprus uh in the
36:04Mediterranean 14,000 years ago. Again,
36:07they involve sea journeys. Not engine
36:09boats, not metal boats. You can do it on
36:11quite simple craft. Look at Look at the
36:13Polynesians. Look at the vast distances
36:15that they explored on outrigger canoes.
36:18Uh so, yeah, boats, but not
36:21our kind of boats.
36:22>> Hm.
36:23I just don't understand how if if
36:25they're traveling the seas in boats,
36:27have they they aren't classified as a
36:28civilization?
36:30>> Well,
36:31because
36:32according to the mainstream model, which
36:34I am trying to provide an alternative
36:37to, they never existed.
36:39There was no such people. They never did
36:41these things. The maps are just
36:42coincidences, irrelevant. Just odd They
36:45put Antarctica They put a a landmass in
36:47Antarctica cuz they felt it would
36:49balance the world. That's the theory
36:51that's given. And it's just To me, it's
36:53not It's not satisfactory. Doesn't It
36:55just doesn't add up. These things need
36:57to be explained. And it's why it's why
37:00in every society which wishes to make
37:03progress,
37:05uh
37:05mavericks, people who go against the
37:07grain, no matter
37:11how much they have to take, are
37:13needed. They're needed in our society to
37:15provide a balance to this
37:17overwhelming
37:19mass that science now occupies. Science
37:22has now come to occupy the space that
37:24religion occupied in many people's
37:26minds.
37:27And again, I need to emphasize I'm not
37:29against science. Science Science is
37:30about to save my life. I have major
37:32heart surgery coming up in 2 weeks'
37:34time. I'm not against it at all, but I
37:35think it should be one weapon in our
37:37armory, not the only weapon.
37:40>> There should be a button just down below
37:42here. And if it says subscribe, you're
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37:49do us a favor and hit that button. It
37:51helps the show more than you know. And
37:52according to the algorithm, you're
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37:55haven't yet hit that button. Thank you
37:57so much.
37:58One of the
37:59things I was super curious about cuz I
38:00was actually there last last week
38:03is this place.
38:04>> Giza.
38:05>> Pyramids of Giza.
38:06>> The Great Pyramid of Giza.
38:09Here we look at it.
38:10Attributed to the pharaoh
38:12Khufu.
38:13>> [sighs]
38:14>> Who was a pharaoh of the fourth dynasty.
38:17>> What is the mystery here? So, again,
38:19pyramids are this big stack of like
38:21concrete blocks in Egypt.
38:23What is the Why is it so mysterious?
38:25>> Well, first of all, they're not
38:26concrete. They're They're hewn limestone
38:29um and granite.
38:30Uh
38:31First of all, it's mysterious for the
38:33sheer size of it. Look.
38:36So, you got roughly 750 ft along each
38:39side, okay?
38:41>> [snorts]
38:41>> And
38:42they vary in length by only fractions of
38:46an inch. They've got it just about
38:48spot-on exact on the side length, and
38:51you want that in a pyramid because if
38:53you get it wrong, you're going to end up
38:54with a corkscrew rather than a pyramid.
38:57If you get it wrong at the bottom, those
38:59errors are going to magnify, and they're
39:00going to get worse and worse, and it's
39:01not going to be a pyramid at the end of
39:03the day.
39:04Secondly,
39:05weight calculated at about 6 million
39:08tons.
39:11More than 2 million individual blocks of
39:13stone.
39:14I've climbed the pyramid five times.
39:16Once I climbed it when there was an
39:18event taking place on the Giza Plateau.
39:21Picnics, basically. And And a lot of
39:24Cairoenes just decided to climb the
39:25pyramid. As I say, I've climbed it four
39:27other times without other people there,
39:29but this time there were hundreds of
39:31people on the pyramid.
39:33That's when I realized how difficult
39:35this thing is to make because the
39:36biggest danger was the other people.
39:38Once you're up
39:40two or three courses, you fall, you're
39:41dead. It's uh it's a 52° slope. There's
39:45no way you're going to stop. You're
39:46going to come down and still every year
39:48people die on the Great Pyramid. That's
39:50why they've made it illegal to climb it
39:51now.
39:53So, there's that. Then there's the
39:55almost perfect alignment of the Great
39:57Pyramid to true north, not to compass
40:00north, which is about 10 or 11° off true
40:02north, but to astronomical north, real
40:04north. The Great Pyramid is aligned
40:06within 3/60 of a single degree. I put it
40:10that way because degrees are divided
40:12into 60 minutes. So, 3 minutes of arc.
40:14The Great Pyramid is aligned to that
40:16level of precision, 360th of a single
40:18degree to true north. And they've done
40:20that on a 6 million-ton monument, which
40:22is 481 ft high,
40:25if you take account of its original
40:26height, which has a 52° slope, which is
40:29filled with internal corridors and
40:31spaces, grand gallery, the ascending,
40:34the descending corridors.
40:36All of this is extremely difficult to
40:39do. It is It's not impossible to do
40:41because we see it there. Could our
40:43civilization do it? Yeah, I think we
40:45could.
40:46But, would we do it? No, I don't think
40:49we would. The motive wouldn't be there.
40:51People say, "Well, why I mean why do you
40:53want to align it perfectly to true
40:54north? It's enough to ask me to build a
40:566-million-ton monument, but you want it
40:59aligned to true north as well? Come on.
41:01I mean, that's a really difficult
41:02specification." We'd find that hard.
41:06Um a kind of artistry
41:09was put to work on the Great Pyramid as
41:11well as skill. Let's get rid of any
41:13notion that slaves were involved. They
41:15were not. There there wasn't slavery in
41:17the Old Kingdom anyway, but this is a
41:19work of love from the first to the last
41:21stone. It's a work [clears throat] done
41:23with great skill and care. It's a
41:25beautiful and extraordinary thing, both
41:28inside and out. It sits almost exactly
41:33on latitude 30, which is 1/3 of the way
41:35between the North Pole and the equator.
41:38And
41:39it incorporates the dimensions of the
41:42Earth
41:43on a scale of 1 to 43,200
41:46in its own dimensions. So, if you take
41:47the height of the Great Pyramid and
41:49multiply it by 43,200,
41:52I'll explain why that number matters.
41:54Multiply it by that number, you get the
41:56polar radius of the Earth. Measure the
41:58base perimeter of the Great Pyramid,
42:00multiply it by the same factor, 43,200,
42:03you get the equatorial circumference of
42:05the Earth.
42:07Archaeologists know this.
42:09They say it's a coincidence, total
42:11coincidence, just by chance.
42:13However, I could agree with them
42:15actually if the scale was not 1 to
42:1843,200.
42:20But the fact that it's 1 to 43,200
42:23changes everything because that belongs
42:25to a sequence of numbers that is found
42:27in ancient mythology all around the
42:30world. And those numbers are all
42:32multiples of the number 72. And I
42:35mentioned at the beginning of our
42:36discussion the book by the great
42:39historian of science, Giorgio de
42:41Santillana, professor of the history of
42:43science at MIT. He was the first to
42:45identify that these numbers and the
42:48imagery that go with them
42:50derive from a phenomenon called the
42:52precession of the equinoxes. I better
42:54explain that a little bit. The
42:56precession of the equinoxes
42:58Everybody's heard the song, "We live in
43:00the dawning of the age of Aquarius."
43:02I'm sure you've heard that.
43:05>> Uh no comment.
43:06>> [laughter]
43:07>> We live in the dawning of the age of
43:08Aquarius.
43:10That's astrology.
43:11At the moment, and for the last 2,000
43:13years, on the spring equinox, the sun
43:16has risen against the background of the
43:18constellation of Pisces.
43:21That's the age of Pisces. We live in the
43:24age of Pisces. It's not an accident that
43:25the early Christians used the fish as
43:28their symbol.
43:30The next constellation on the zodiac,
43:32when you go backwards around it, is
43:34Aquarius.
43:36And the precession is actually caused by
43:38a wobble on the axis of the earth. I'm
43:40going to pretend that this is the earth.
43:42>> Okay.
43:43>> And
43:43instead of just doing this, while it's
43:46doing that, it's also doing that. It's
43:49wobbling.
43:49>> Mhm.
43:50>> And that affects the rising time and
43:51season at which particular stars rise.
43:53It affects
43:54two things noticeably. One thing it
43:56affects is the pole star. At the moment,
43:58the pole star is Polaris. The pole star,
44:01this is a strong astronomical north.
44:03It's the star towards which the the
44:05north pole pole of the earth points most
44:08directly.
44:09>> Okay.
44:10>> At present it's Polaris. It hasn't
44:11always been Polaris. 4,000 years ago it
44:13was Thuban in the constellation of
44:14Draco. That's because the earth axis is
44:17doing this. At the horizon it does the
44:19same thing with the zodiacal
44:21constellations. We shift gradually
44:23through each constellation. Last about
44:252,000 years in each constellation. The
44:27great year where we come back to square
44:29one is just under 26,000 years. 25,920
44:33years is the convention that's applied
44:35in ancient mythology. So, the fact that
44:38one of those numbers is the scale used
44:41to encode the dimensions of the earth in
44:43the Great Pyramid cannot be accidental
44:45in my view. It's a deliberate choice. If
44:47it was 1 to 57,000
44:49I wouldn't pay attention to it. If it
44:50was 1 to 20
44:521,000 I wouldn't pay attention to it.
44:54But 1 to 43,200
44:56that's the number of syllables in the
44:58Rigveda for example. You find this all
45:00over the world, everywhere.
45:02>> So, what does that imply?
45:03What suggest?
45:04>> What it suggests is that incorporated
45:06into the building of the Great Pyramid
45:09was knowledge that was not supposed to
45:11have existed 4 and 1/2 thousand years
45:12ago. In fact, knowledge that was not
45:15supposed to have existed until 2,000
45:17years ago. Hipparchus of Alexandria is
45:19the Greek who was supposed to have
45:20discovered precession.
45:22Uh but
45:23the incorporation of precession in the
45:26structure of the Great Pyramid says to
45:28me that that knowledge is much older. It
45:30was already old then.
45:31>> I really want to make sure I'm clear on
45:33this precession thing cuz I'm not I'm
45:34not super clear.
45:35>> Yeah.
45:35>> Um what does it what does it mean
45:37precession? It means that there's a
45:38certain star pattern that we see once
45:41every 20,000 years?
45:42>> It it it it precesses. It goes
45:44backwards.
45:45>> Okay.
45:45>> The direction through the through the
45:47zodiac is is forwards in the normal
45:50year. But in the long-term year because
45:52of the wobble the sunrise against the
45:54background of the spring equinox the sun
45:56rises perfectly due east. It always
45:58does. It also rises perfectly due east
46:01on the autumn equinox. On the summer
46:03solstice, the sun rises in the northern
46:05hemisphere north of east and south of
46:07east on the on the winter solstice. The
46:09key moment
46:10for the ancients was the equinox.
46:13It was considered to define the
46:15character of the year and what defined
46:17it was the constellation that housed the
46:20sun, that was the house of the sun.
46:22>> Okay, so the star pattern.
46:23>> Yeah, the
46:25a zodiacal constellation. These The
46:27constellations of the zodiac lie along
46:30what is called the ecliptic, the path of
46:32the sun.
46:32>> Okay.
46:33>> Okay, the Earth, the Moon, we're all on
46:35the ecliptic within
46:37a few degrees above or below it. And and
46:40therefore, these are constellations that
46:42we can see the sun against the
46:44background of.
46:44>> Mhm.
46:45>> Constellation like Orion, you'll never
46:47see the sun against the background of
46:48it. You're only going to see it against
46:50the background of the zodiacal
46:51constellations that lie on the so-called
46:54path of the sun. And those are the 12
46:56familiar constellations of the zodiac.
46:58And as I say,
47:00we're living in the age of Pisces right
47:01now and according to ancient astrology,
47:05we're going to be making the transition
47:08into Aquarius within about the next 150
47:10years. The sun will have left Pisces and
47:12will be rising in Aquarius. So that
47:14actually the song is true. We do live in
47:16the dawning of the age of Aquarius. The
47:17only question is whether that means
47:18anything or not. The ancients thought it
47:20did.
47:21We think it doesn't.
47:23I'm not sure who's right.
47:25>> So, I'm going to repeat this back to you
47:26to check if I'm I've got it correctly,
47:28but [clears throat] I suspect I might
47:29not have. Within the design of the
47:31pyramids, there was a number which you
47:34said was 43,200.
47:36>> It's a scale.
47:37>> It's a scale that's used for the height
47:39and the base perimeter of the Great
47:41Pyramid. Base perimeter measure, four
47:43sides added together, height, the actual
47:46height of the Great Pyramid. It's true
47:47original height. It lost about 30 ft in
47:50an earthquake in 1301, but you can
47:52calculate the true original height from
47:54the angle of the
47:56of the sides.
47:57>> Ah, yeah, Right.
47:58>> Um and when you take that height
48:01and multiply it by 43,200,
48:05you get the polar radius of the Earth.
48:07>> You get the radius of the Earth.
48:08>> that's from the center of the Earth to
48:11the edge of the Earth. It's not the
48:12diameter of the Earth. The diameter is
48:14twice the radius.
48:15It's the It's the polar radius.
48:17>> Okay.
48:18>> A key dimension of the Earth.
48:20Measure the sides and you get
48:23on the same scale, 1 to 43,200, you get
48:26the equatorial circumference of the
48:28Earth. What the Earth measures at its
48:29equator, its largest its largest
48:31measure.
48:33Um and and that
48:35uh is either a coincidence or is
48:37deliberate. And because of the number
48:39chosen and because that number is all
48:42over ancient mythology, I think it's
48:44deliberate.
48:45>> Did that means that they must have known
48:47the circumference of the Earth?
48:48>> Yeah. It means that they knew the
48:50circumference of the Earth and it means
48:51they chose
48:52a place to put the Great Pyramid which
48:54also was relevant.
48:56This isn't latitude 23 or latitude 37.
49:01This is just a fraction off latitude 30°
49:04north. So, therefore, 1/3 of the way
49:07between the equator and the North Pole.
49:08It's a It's a It's a significant
49:10relative What it's telling us is this
49:12monument speaks to the Earth. This
49:14monument is locked into the true north
49:17of this planet.
49:18This monument gives you the dimensions
49:21of this planet. This monument is
49:23speaking to this planet.
49:25>> How could they possibly know the
49:26circumference of the Earth 4,500 years
49:28ago?
49:28>> Because they're a lost civilization.
49:30Because the the knowledge comes down
49:32from a former time. I don't think the
49:34Egyptians knew it. I think it came down.
49:36I think it was inherited knowledge from
49:40what I'm here
49:41to advocate for and to speak for, the
49:44possibility of a major forgotten episode
49:46in the human story.
49:47>> Which could be 20,000 years ago.
49:49>> Yes.
49:49>> And they've passed it down in in myths
49:52and stories.
49:53>> Yes. Passed it down but not only in
49:55myths and stories.
49:56Um this is something else that I will
49:59I'll just hint at here that I intend to
50:01get into
50:03in the new book
50:04is that there appear to have been
50:06organizations
50:07in each of these civilizations. In Egypt
50:10they were called the followers of Horus.
50:15In Sumer they were called the Apkallu.
50:19They served as advisers to kings. They
50:21were called sages. There's a reference
50:23to them. Many cultures refer to them as
50:25the seven sages.
50:27They provided advice to kings in the
50:29historical period.
50:31And I'm wondering whether we're looking
50:32at some kind of
50:34long-lived organization here which is
50:36carrying down information looking for
50:39the right time to switch the engine of
50:42civilization back on again. I know it's
50:45sounds extreme but
50:47that's what I do. I explore I explore
50:49extreme ideas and see whether
50:51and see whether they fit or not. And I'm
50:53beginning to find this idea does fit. It
50:56It fit It fits with a whole range of
50:57information which will be in the next
50:59book.
51:00>> A sage that reports to the king and
51:02dictates
51:02>> only reports to the king but advises the
51:04king.
51:05>> On what?
51:05>> On everything. On what to do.
51:07>> Oh okay.
51:08>> Yeah.
51:09The Apkallu in the ancient traditions of
51:12Sumer they existed in the pre-diluvian
51:15world. They were there in the world
51:16before the flood.
51:18Then there and and they taught mankind
51:21knowledge then.
51:23But
51:24the flood came, the cataclysm came. They
51:26were wiped out but some of the Apkallu
51:28survived and they appear after the flood
51:31as advisers to the earliest historical
51:33kings of Sumer. And I'm just wondering
51:36whether
51:37you know, there are there are religions
51:40in the world which have maintained
51:43traditions and maintained offices,
51:45priesthoods for example, for thousands
51:47of years. I don't see why the same
51:49shouldn't be true here, why there
51:50shouldn't have been some driving motive
51:53at the end of the Ice Age to preserve in
51:55a way what they knew, and to find
51:56mechanisms to pass it down. One
51:58mechanism is to embed it in wonderful
52:00stories that will go on being told, and
52:02another mechanism is to set up some kind
52:05of secret society, which is operating
52:07behind the scenes to guide and steer
52:09society. I'm not going to present the
52:12evidence for that here, but it's an
52:13avenue I'm pursuing. If I If I don't
52:16find it a satisfactory avenue, I'll
52:18abandon it, but at the moment it's
52:19looking very interesting.
52:21>> Then where did all this information
52:23go? You know, cuz if the people who
52:26built the pyramids of Giza had this
52:27information, where did the sages go and
52:29with their information?
52:30>> Yeah, it's very it's very odd, actually.
52:32What What happens after Giza is
52:33fascinating,
52:35um because once you
52:38once you leave the Fourth Dynasty
52:39period, you get into the Fifth and Sixth
52:42Dynasties, pyramid building collapses.
52:46The stuff they're making in the Fifth
52:47Dynasty, like the Pyramid of Unas,
52:49Fifth Dynasty pyramid
52:51in Saqqara,
52:54inside, it's stunningly beautiful.
52:56Beautiful tomb chamber, stars on the
52:59ceiling, incredible hieroglyphs on the
53:01side. It's
53:02magical. But outside, it's just a pile
53:05of dust. It's a mess. It doesn't even
53:07You could hardly recognize it as a
53:09pyramid. And it's true of all those. So,
53:11this is odd in itself.
53:13Normally, when human cultures create
53:17something, they continue to work on it,
53:19and it tends to get better and better,
53:21not worse and worse. So, it's odd what
53:24happens to the pyramids, that they get
53:25worse and worse in Egypt. It's like,
53:27"Job done. Done that. Move on." And
53:29that's there.
53:31And that's going to speak
53:33to human beings not just for a
53:35generation, not just for a hundred
53:37years. It's going to be there speaking
53:38to us for thousands of years. It's going
53:40to be sitting there on the Giza Plateau,
53:42like an enormous question mark,
53:44calling towards it those who don't see
53:46it just as a heap of stones, but
53:48actually see it as something wonderful
53:49and magnificent and mysterious, calling
53:52them to it and saying, "Learn about me.
53:55Figure me out. And in the process of
53:57learning about me, you're going to learn
53:59so much else." Well, in learning about
54:00the Great Pyramid, I find that it is
54:03encoded with astronomical information
54:04that should not be there if the current
54:07model of the history of science is
54:09correct.
54:11I think the current model of the history
54:12of science is wrong. I think this
54:13information was known much earlier, and
54:15it's encoded in the Great Pyramid. Once
54:17I know that, then I have to start
54:19thinking, "What else does that mean?"
54:20And what else it means to me is a big
54:24forgotten episode in our story.
54:26>> Again, why?
54:28Because they had intelligence that
54:29they're not credited with having at that
54:31time.
54:31>> Yes, because it's there. Because they
54:33should not be a monument of this
54:36scale, which incorporates into it
54:40information that was not supposed to be
54:41available to human beings for another 2
54:43and 1/2 thousand years.
54:45>> So, they must have got it from
54:45somewhere.
54:46>> Yes, they must have got it from
54:47somewhere. And and the fact that it's
54:50there is it's
54:52it's just a fact. And all that's left
54:53for us to say is
54:55either it's a coincidence, complete
54:57coincidence, or
55:00it's the result of a deliberate
55:02decision.
55:03And if it's the result of a deliberate
55:04decision, that weighs much more towards
55:07a deliberate decision because of the
55:08scale chosen. Because the scale is part
55:11of a system that is found all over the
55:13ancient world. It's not a random number.
55:15It's a very specific number.
55:18Uh and it's a number that is derived
55:20from a motion of the Earth itself, from
55:22the precession of the Earth's axis. It
55:24is derived from that. So,
55:26I'm situated at a significant latitude.
55:29I'm oriented to true north, and I
55:31incorporate the measurements of your
55:34planet
55:35on a scale derived from your planet
55:37itself. That's what the Great Pyramid is
55:38saying to us, and it's saying,
55:40"Figure that out."
55:42>> Do you think there's something
55:43underneath it?
55:44>> Oh, there's definitely something
55:45underneath it.
55:46>> Cuz we think of it as this sort of like
55:47building with the with tunnels inside
55:49it, but
55:49>> Yeah, when you go into the Great Pyramid
55:51now, you go in through what is what is
55:54called the Robbers' Tunnel or Mamoun's
55:57Hole. The Caliph al-Mamoun
55:59had a notion that
56:01there would be a entrance to the Great
56:02Pyramid in its northern face.
56:05Other pyramids had been found with
56:06entrances in their northern face, but at
56:08that time, the Great Pyramid was
56:09completely covered with perfectly smooth
56:12limestone facing stones, and nobody
56:13could see the entrance.
56:15They came off later in that earthquake
56:17in 1301, but when he broke in in the 9th
56:19century,
56:21they didn't know where the door was.
56:23Apparently, there was a place you could
56:25almost literally press a switch and open
56:27that door, but they couldn't find it.
56:28So, they broke in with sledgehammers and
56:30chisels, and they smashed their way into
56:32the Great Pyramid, and then,
56:34at a certain moment when they're about
56:3660 or 70 ft into the Great Pyramid, they
56:38hear something dropping in a hollow
56:40space.
56:41A big
56:42something has fallen in a hollow space.
56:44They head towards that sound,
56:47and then, they enter the original
56:49corridor system of the Great Pyramid.
56:50And that's the way we all go in now. We
56:52go in through that Robbers' Tunnel, and
56:54then we go up the Grand Gallery, but we
56:56can also go down. We can go down to the
56:58subterranean chamber, which is 100 ft
57:01vertically beneath the base of the Great
57:03Pyramid, deep in the bedrock. I actually
57:06think that was the original sacred site
57:08on that monument is that subterranean
57:10chamber.
57:11I don't advise anybody with
57:13claustrophobia to go down there.
57:15You're very conscious that you've got a
57:166-million-ton monument sitting right
57:19above you in a place that has
57:20earthquakes.
57:21Um it can be quite oppressive, but
57:24that's just a hint of what's under the
57:26Giza Plateau. That's just that's an
57:28accessible bit.
57:29Uh but it's it's it's already obvious
57:31that there there there is so much more.
57:33Some of it's been picked up with ground
57:35penetrating radar. And I'll take this
57:37opportunity to say that the hysterical
57:40reaction of mainstream scientists to the
57:44announcement by Filippo Biondi uh
57:47>> What is he saying?
57:48>> He's saying that there are enormous
57:49structures under the second pyramid,
57:51that not the Great Pyramid, under the
57:52pyramid attributed to Khafre, Khufu's
57:55successor. The the structures that go
57:58hundreds of feet deep under there.
58:01Structures that involve spiral
58:04kind of stairways. The reaction has been
58:07overwhelmingly dismissing this.
58:09Archaeologists have not They won't look
58:10further. They say it's impossible, and
58:13they won't look at it. And I think
58:14that's shameful for people who imagine
58:16they're scientists. They should be
58:18looking further. I'd like to see the
58:19technology trialed in Turkey. There are
58:21underground cities in Turkey, Kaymakli,
58:24for example. We know every room in those
58:26underground cities. Run this technology
58:29on them. If they accurately reproduce
58:31what we already know is there, then we
58:33can be pretty sure they're accurately
58:34reproducing what's under the Giza
58:36pyramids. We need to do a lot more work
58:38before dismissing this. So I'm I remain
58:40open to the notion that a huge
58:42underworld awaits discovery under Giza.
58:45And the ancient Egyptians themselves
58:47felt that way. They felt that Giza, the
58:49ancient name for it was Rostau, it was
58:51an entrance to the underworld. They saw
58:53it as an entrance to the afterlife
58:55realm. It makes sense that there would
58:57be much much underground structures
58:59there.
58:59>> And you've been alone in the pyramids?
59:01>> Being with large groups in the pyramid
59:03is difficult in the sense that the
59:04pyramid to me feels like a personality.
59:07When I'm in there with a large group, I
59:09I feel the pyramid withdrawing. It It
59:11It's like it doesn't want to speak to
59:13you anymore. It's The place becomes a
59:15dead space.
59:16But But if you can be in there with a
59:18very small group or be there alone
59:21and just be still
59:24let the silence descend,
59:26sit in that silence in the very low
59:28lighting that's in there.
59:31Just pause and
59:35remind yourself that you're in the last
59:36surviving wonder of the ancient world.
59:38It's an incredible privilege to be
59:40there.
59:42And just let it speak to you.
59:44And it does.
59:45This is of course my critics will say
59:47another proof that Hancock's a lunatic.
59:49But
59:51I'm just telling you what what what what
59:52happens to me. It's a I I think it's a
59:54monument that communicates.
59:56>> What did it say to you?
59:58>> It said to me go further.
59:59>> [laughter]
1:00:01>> Very much so.
1:00:02I've I I I feel
1:00:06in a weird way
1:00:08validated by the Great Pyramid. I think
1:00:10it's um
1:00:12not only me, others as well
1:00:15who've devoted big chunks of their lives
1:00:16to the Great Pyramid like Robert Bauval
1:00:19who is a great man by the way.
1:00:22The Orion Correlation the recognition
1:00:24that the three pyramids on the ground
1:00:25are laid out in the pattern of the belt
1:00:27stars of the constellation of Orion
1:00:29makes radical and important changes to
1:00:31our understanding of ancient Egypt.
1:00:32Again, that's another thing that's been
1:00:34leapt upon by the archaeological mafia
1:00:37because they want to destroy every new
1:00:38idea
1:00:39rather than spend a bit of time thinking
1:00:41about it.
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1:02:45If what you're saying is true around the
1:02:49you know, the first civilizations being
1:02:5020 plus thousand years ago, what does
1:02:53that mean for us, for our lives?
1:02:57>> Oh, it's it's really important meaning
1:02:59for us because because it will finally
1:03:01remind us and tell us once and for all
1:03:03that we're not what it's all about.
1:03:05It's not all about us. The whole human
1:03:07story is not about us. It's not
1:03:10inevitable that it comes to this, and
1:03:12that we are temporary like every other
1:03:14civilization. We're so filled with
1:03:16arrogance and pride right now with our
1:03:18technological achievements, our great
1:03:21abilities, our great powers.
1:03:24And the arrogance that comes with that,
1:03:27the Greeks used to call that hubris.
1:03:29It's it's
1:03:30ultimately ends in nemesis. Ultimately
1:03:33brings you down. Arrogance arrogance is
1:03:35not a good thing. It's not a good thing
1:03:37in an individual and it's a terrible
1:03:39thing in a civilization.
1:03:41>> It also means that a lot of the things
1:03:43that we've dismissed as
1:03:45you know, conspiracy or you know, hocus
1:03:48pocus, whatever,
1:03:49might not be. I mean, you talk a lot
1:03:51about like astrology and stuff like that
1:03:52and
1:03:53>> Yeah, I think we should keep open to to
1:03:56systems that the ancients used which
1:03:58we've dismissed.
1:03:59>> Like
1:04:00>> Which might be very Astrology is one of
1:04:02them. What does astrology ultimately
1:04:04say? It ultimately says that
1:04:07we, these beings, these humans,
1:04:10aren't isolated, but are connected to
1:04:12the universe and are affected by
1:04:14everything that happens in the universe.
1:04:16And it's And it's recognizing that there
1:04:18may be patterns in that. And instead of
1:04:21instead of just rubbishing that or doing
1:04:23a few investigations, I think it maybe
1:04:25worth looking further into that. Worth
1:04:27looking further into telepathy, too. My
1:04:29friend Rupert Sheldrake, serious
1:04:31scientist, one of the very few who's
1:04:33doing serious scientific work on
1:04:37issues like telepathy and like
1:04:39telekinesis, being able to move things
1:04:41with your mind.
1:04:42Mainstream scientists, most of them will
1:04:44just laugh at that. Absolute rubbish.
1:04:46Yeah, go away, you're a lunatic.
1:04:48But why are we lunatics to look into
1:04:50those things? It's really interesting
1:04:52and it's really worth investigating. We
1:04:54should realize that we have a heritage
1:04:57of hundreds of thousands of years and I
1:05:00believe it's even older than 315,000
1:05:02years. We do not have a heritage of 100
1:05:05years, which is the heritage of modern
1:05:07science. Well, let's let's be generous.
1:05:10Let's put modern science even back to
1:05:12the Greeks in a way, but it doesn't
1:05:14become what we would recognize as
1:05:16science until the 19th century really.
1:05:19So, it's a very young thing.
1:05:22If you take the human being as the
1:05:25as the heart of this and and and you
1:05:27were to find a little pimple on the nose
1:05:29of that human being, that would be
1:05:30science.
1:05:31>> Mhm.
1:05:31>> It's a pimple on the nose
1:05:34of hundreds of thousands of years of
1:05:35human experience. Why should we be so
1:05:37arrogant to dismiss those hundreds of
1:05:40thousands of years of human experience
1:05:42in the favor of 150 years maximum of
1:05:45so-called science?
1:05:47>> I mean, one of the interesting things is
1:05:49I actually did go to the Amazon
1:05:51rainforest in Peru.
1:05:52>> Um
1:05:53and they've discovered these like big
1:05:55square things underground.
1:05:56>> I've been involved in that.
1:05:58>> What is What is that?
1:05:59>> Well, the the name that's been given to
1:06:01them is is geoglyphs.
1:06:03>> Geoglyphs.
1:06:05>> I think I know this one. Nobody knew
1:06:06they existed at all until about 40 years
1:06:10ago.
1:06:10>> Really?
1:06:11>> And uh because the Amazon rainforest is
1:06:14a rainforest and and densely covered
1:06:17with uh canopy.
1:06:19However,
1:06:21it's constantly being settled. This is a
1:06:23problem in itself. It's constantly being
1:06:25settled. The Amazon is being cleared and
1:06:26it's being turned into farms. It's the
1:06:28clearance of bits of the Amazon
1:06:29initially that exposed
1:06:32these huge geometric structures
1:06:34>> Mhm.
1:06:35>> under [clears throat] the rainforest. No
1:06:36longer under because they cleared the
1:06:37rainforest. Now, with lidar, I've been
1:06:39involved with Martti Pärssinen. In fact,
1:06:41he was on my Netflix show. He's a
1:06:43archaeologist from Finland and and with
1:06:46Alteo Ramzi, a Brazilian geographer, um
1:06:50what they're doing is a
1:06:52dense lidar survey of the whole of Acre
1:06:54province in Brazil.
1:06:56This is in Acre province as well. The
1:06:58areas that are still under canopy
1:07:00rainforest. And lidar can see through
1:07:02the canopy and it can see raised objects
1:07:05underneath and it can actually give you
1:07:06the shape of that object. Then they can
1:07:08go in low
1:07:11you know low impact just a few of them
1:07:13go in check it out see what's there and
1:07:15then begin the archaeology on the site.
1:07:17>> I mean this is a prime example. I've got
1:07:18a I've got a list here of things that we
1:07:20used to believe and things that
1:07:22[clears throat]
1:07:23how those beliefs have changed and one
1:07:24of them was that we used to believe that
1:07:25the Amazon was an untouched wilderness.
1:07:28But in the 1970s we discovered yep what
1:07:30a thousand of these structures?
1:07:32>> At least
1:07:33they're they're they're confident now
1:07:35from the lidar work talking of thousands
1:07:393 5 6000 there are also roadways that
1:07:42run for 100 kilometers plus.
1:07:44There's absolutely no doubt that the
1:07:46Amazon once supported a population of
1:07:48millions with extraordinary clever
1:07:51management of rainforest soils by
1:07:54creating a man-made soil that they call
1:07:56terra preta. It's still used in Brazil
1:07:58today. We are having to
1:08:01completely reconceive the Amazon.
1:08:04It was thought of as a pristine
1:08:06rainforest which a few human beings
1:08:09wandered around aimlessly in hunting
1:08:12whatever.
1:08:13Now we know that it was
1:08:16the homeland
1:08:18of a very large population who lived in
1:08:20city-sized communities
1:08:23um
1:08:24who joined those communities with long
1:08:26straight roadways.
1:08:28It's it's as though the veil is being
1:08:30pulled back and we're beginning to see a
1:08:32completely untold story in the Amazon
1:08:35and these geoglyphs
1:08:37very precise rectangles triangles
1:08:40circles squares all of these geometry
1:08:44geometry what what's it what's it doing
1:08:46there in the Amazon? And and when I when
1:08:48I talked to a local shaman about this
1:08:50and I did on on camera in the in the in
1:08:52the Netflix show
1:08:53he talked to me about how important
1:08:56these places still are to him that these
1:08:57places were made by their ancestors that
1:09:00they're are for shamanic gatherings.
1:09:03Places for shamans to use specifically
1:09:07to contact the world beyond. Let's be
1:09:10clear about this. All civilizations,
1:09:11including ours, although we may deny it,
1:09:14all of them emerged from shamanism.
1:09:16Shamanism is the essence
1:09:18of the human adventure. And and all
1:09:22civilizations emerged from shamanism and
1:09:23this one was shamanism, yes. Shamanism
1:09:26being the system of using altered states
1:09:29of consciousness to gain direct access
1:09:33to other levels of reality.
1:09:35>> Like psychedelics?
1:09:36>> Yeah, psychedelics or you can fast for a
1:09:39month. That will give you some visions,
1:09:41too. There there are there are other
1:09:43ways, but but psychedelics are the most
1:09:45efficient way to enter the altered state
1:09:47of consciousness and shamans are masters
1:09:50of the use of plant medicines everywhere
1:09:52in the world, but particularly in the
1:09:53Amazon rainforest. This is this is where
1:09:54you you see it most strongly. And DMT,
1:09:57the active ingredient of ayahuasca,
1:09:59is very fast-acting in the way that it's
1:10:01normally consumed.
1:10:03Okay? It's normally vaped or smoked.
1:10:07It produces a 10-minute journey
1:10:10literally to the other side of reality.
1:10:13And there's not much you can do about it
1:10:14once you're in there.
1:10:16But then you're out again.
1:10:18Ayahuasca
1:10:20is a very clever technology. The
1:10:22ayahuasca brew contains DMT.
1:10:25DMT is not orally active. So, you can
1:10:28drink a tea made of with loads of DMT in
1:10:31it and it's not going to do anything to
1:10:32you because there's an enzyme in the gut
1:10:34that destroys it.
1:10:36>> [clears throat]
1:10:37>> The ayahuasca vine
1:10:39contains a chemical that shuts that
1:10:41enzyme down and allows the DMT to be
1:10:43absorbed orally, producing an experience
1:10:46that can last for hours that can be
1:10:48physically very uncomfortable.
1:10:50What they're doing at Imperial College
1:10:52is they're giving them DMT by
1:10:54intravenous infusion.
1:10:57Using basically anesthesia technology to
1:11:00constantly top up the dose to keep the
1:11:02individual in the peak state. And unlike
1:11:04other psychedelics, there's no tolerance
1:11:06with DMT, so you can keep on
1:11:08dosing people.
1:11:10>> When you you've taken ayahuasca 80
1:11:12times?
1:11:12>> Something like that. Something like
1:11:14that. Um
1:11:16It's not just
1:11:18It's important to be clear about a
1:11:20number of things.
1:11:22First of all,
1:11:24all psychedelics are extremely serious
1:11:27matters. They are not to be taken
1:11:28trivially. They are extremely serious.
1:11:31With uh
1:11:33experienced use of ayahuasca, one of the
1:11:35very common reports is this moral
1:11:38dimension. That you are presented with
1:11:40your own life, with what you've done
1:11:43with your own life, with the pain that
1:11:45you may have caused to others. And
1:11:47suddenly, that pain that you caused to
1:11:49another person, which you dismissed as
1:11:51they just deserved that, they just
1:11:52deserved those words, you suddenly get
1:11:54it from their point of view. You feel
1:11:55the agony that your words caused that
1:11:58person.
1:11:59And
1:12:00and you find yourself that did I do
1:12:02that? Did I say that? You suddenly see
1:12:06what you are.
1:12:08You can't go back into your own past and
1:12:10change negative and useless and
1:12:12pointless things that you did. You can't
1:12:14do that.
1:12:15But you can avoid repeating them in the
1:12:17future.
1:12:18And it's that teaching of a moral lesson
1:12:21uh that I find most valuable in
1:12:23ayahuasca. It's helped me to come to
1:12:25terms with my tendency to swift anger.
1:12:28I'm I'm very aware that that's a problem
1:12:30I have and it's something I need to do
1:12:32something about. And I I was goes helped
1:12:34me with that. I've I've become gentler
1:12:37and and softer. Not gentle enough,
1:12:38maybe. It's a journey. It's not a It's
1:12:40not an overnight transformation, not a
1:12:42magic pill. Uh the main work with
1:12:45ayahuasca comes after the medicine. The
1:12:48main work comes with what you do with
1:12:49the experience, how you integrate it
1:12:51into your life. That's where the work
1:12:52begins. People say "Oh, it's so easy to
1:12:54take a
1:12:55a brew." Well, it's not actually not
1:12:57that easy cuz you're going to vomit and
1:12:59have diarrhea, but but easy.
1:13:01Um
1:13:02but that's where the work begins, not
1:13:03where it ends.
1:13:04>> And that emotion, is that Does that stem
1:13:06back to your relationship with your
1:13:07parents?
1:13:08Because I was reading about your early
1:13:10your early life.
1:13:10>> Yeah.
1:13:11Look, we're all frail human beings.
1:13:13We're all messed about in lots of ways.
1:13:15We all have We all have issues in our
1:13:17lives. Um and
1:13:18>> regret.
1:13:20>> Regret. Yes, I I do regret saying
1:13:22hurtful and unkind things to a number of
1:13:24people over the years. I do I do regret
1:13:27that very much. I do regret very much
1:13:30that I wasn't
1:13:33I wasn't mature enough to realize why my
1:13:35parents were so difficult. Uh that I
1:13:38never really forgave them for that. I
1:13:40never really forgave them for
1:13:42the strangeness of my childhood and and
1:13:45uh
1:13:46the various things that that that that
1:13:48happened. I never really saw it from
1:13:50their point of view. My mother lost
1:13:51three children aside from me. I'm an
1:13:53only child, but her first child was
1:13:55carried to term before me and born dead.
1:13:58Then I was born, I lived, and then the
1:14:00next two both died at the age of a year.
1:14:02Well, I know now, as a father, I know I
1:14:05know what what kind of catastrophe that
1:14:08is for a person for a for a mother to to
1:14:10lose three children like that.
1:14:12>> You said weird childhood.
1:14:15>> Yeah.
1:14:16So, this is me.
1:14:18This is little Graham here with my
1:14:20mother and my father. I was It was 1954
1:14:24that we landed in India. My father was a
1:14:26surgeon consultant surgeon, and so he
1:14:28went as a missionary surgeon to India to
1:14:31a place called the Christian Medical
1:14:32College in Vellore in South India. Um
1:14:35and we lived in a tin hut. But he was
1:14:37following his faith. He was doing what
1:14:39was what was right for him. He was
1:14:40giving his skills to help to help
1:14:42people. I I realize that now, and a a of
1:14:45resentment I have towards him, I
1:14:47probably, you know,
1:14:49shouldn't have. Um he was an odd guy. He
1:14:52was very eccentric. He used to take me
1:14:54in to watch dissections.
1:14:56Um
1:14:57there there were still hangings in India
1:14:59at that time, and he would dissect the
1:15:01prisoners after the hangings. He had me
1:15:03in there watching it. Um he took me
1:15:05later on when I was what age? Uh
1:15:08uh
1:15:08five.
1:15:09>> You were watching bodies being cut up at
1:15:10five?
1:15:11>> I was, yeah. Absolutely. Very strange.
1:15:13See, it was presented to me as
1:15:15completely normal. Um but but it was it
1:15:18it it was strange. Fundamentally, he was
1:15:19a good man, I believe.
1:15:22>> But I think
1:15:23allowing a four- to five-year-old child
1:15:26be
1:15:27to see those things is deeply traumatic
1:15:30in a way that you probably don't
1:15:31recognize until later.
1:15:33>> I I agree. It's it's come home to me
1:15:35more and more as the years have gone by
1:15:38that what happened to me in those years
1:15:39in India
1:15:41scarred me deeply. It wasn't just the
1:15:44operating theaters and the dissections
1:15:47the dissections. It was
1:15:49the gloom and the misery and the despair
1:15:53that settled over my family at that
1:15:55time, and I don't think I ever really
1:15:56recovered from that.
1:15:57>> Did you have nightmares?
1:15:59>> Yeah.
1:15:59>> And what what were those nightmares?
1:16:03>> Um
1:16:04usually nightmares of loss, usually
1:16:06nightmares of
1:16:08suddenly I'm alone. I'm in a I'm in a
1:16:11I'm completely isolated, lost, alone.
1:16:15>> The reason I ask these questions is
1:16:17there's only ever been one other guest
1:16:20who I sat here with a couple of years
1:16:22ago
1:16:23>> Mhm.
1:16:23>> [clears throat]
1:16:23>> who I believe's dad was a surgeon.
1:16:25>> Mhm.
1:16:26>> And his dad brought him in to watch
1:16:29operations and dissections when he was
1:16:31young.
1:16:32>> Yeah.
1:16:32>> And it scarred him in a way that he
1:16:35didn't realize until later.
1:16:37>> Yeah.
1:16:37>> And he told me about the nightmares of
1:16:38waking up in the night and seeing those
1:16:40bodies of those people around his bed on
1:16:43a predictable basis and told me he he's
1:16:45actually the guy that um
1:16:47coached Michael Jordan.
1:16:48>> Mhm.
1:16:48>> And then um
1:16:50Kobe
1:16:51bef- before Kobe Bryant um passed away
1:16:54and he told me still as an adult those
1:16:56bodies to join him at night time. So,
1:16:57he'll wake up at night time and he'll
1:16:59see them around
1:17:00around his bed. So,
1:17:01>> Well, thank you, universe. That didn't
1:17:03happen to me. I I I do not have I don't
1:17:05remember having gruesome nightmares. I
1:17:08remember a feeling of loneliness and
1:17:11abandonment. That's what I remember.
1:17:13>> Loneliness and abandonment.
1:17:15>> Mhm. I've always felt that way. I was
1:17:17always an outsider at school. Uh
1:17:21everywhere I've been all my life. That's
1:17:24what I'm for. I'm here to be an
1:17:25outsider. I've come to that conclusion.
1:17:28And and uh
1:17:30I need to do that well.
1:17:31I need to provide an alternative point
1:17:33of view on the past.
1:17:35>> There's a real cost to being an
1:17:35outsider.
1:17:36>> Oh, yeah. But, there are also some
1:17:38benefits. You know, we are what we are.
1:17:40And and for me, I was always strange. I
1:17:42had this childhood in in in India. I
1:17:45didn't fit into the British school
1:17:47system.
1:17:48I was a total failure at school. I could
1:17:51not connect. I could not connect with
1:17:54any of it. It seemed I just didn't get
1:17:56it. What was this about? And and and the
1:17:57cruelty, the viciousness. My my dad went
1:18:00to a boarding school and had a good
1:18:02experience. So, he sent me to a boarding
1:18:03school in Durham in the north of
1:18:05England. It was the cruelest place.
1:18:08Beatings going on I I was repeatedly
1:18:11beaten about the bare buttocks by a
1:18:13sadistic headmaster with a cane. I
1:18:16couldn't fit in with the other kids at
1:18:17school. And uh I don't feel victimized
1:18:20for being an outsider. I feel I feel
1:18:21it's a privilege. I feel I've been given
1:18:23I've been given an opportunity to take a
1:18:26different view of things as a result of
1:18:28being an outsider.
1:18:30>> Are there words unsaid here with these
1:18:32two people in your life?
1:18:33>> are there are so many words unsaid. I'd
1:18:35like to go back to my mom and say
1:18:39you know, I understand why you were so
1:18:41obsessed with keeping me alive and
1:18:42making sure that I did something with my
1:18:44life. And I'd like to say to my dad,
1:18:46"Look, you you were pretty crazy, but
1:18:48you you did at least inspire me to be
1:18:50eccentric."
1:18:52It's funny thing getting older. I'm 75,
1:18:5576 in August.
1:18:57>> [snorts]
1:18:57>> One of the things it does is it you
1:18:59realize how collapsed life actually is.
1:19:02I remember being a teenager, and I
1:19:04remember being a young man, and and and
1:19:05I remember being middle-aged, and the
1:19:07feeling is
1:19:08you're immortal. It's going to go on
1:19:10forever. Everything's going to go on
1:19:11forever. And it's long, long, lots of
1:19:14time to do the things you want to do.
1:19:17I have a message. No, it's not long.
1:19:19There is not lots of time. If there's
1:19:21things you want to do with your life,
1:19:23start now. Start right away. Don't wait.
1:19:26Otherwise, you'll not have the
1:19:27opportunity. Life is very short. It's a
1:19:29beautiful, beautiful gift that the
1:19:32universe has given to us.
1:19:34We are responsible for returning that
1:19:36gift by as far as possible within the
1:19:38circumstances that the universe has
1:19:40given us living a full life and
1:19:42contributing something worthwhile to
1:19:44that life. Not being a robot, not being
1:19:48commanded what to do. Not We We need to
1:19:51learn to think for ourselves. This This
1:19:53is something that
1:19:55is so easily forgotten.
1:19:57It's a miracle
1:19:59that you and I are sitting here at all.
1:20:00I'm here, that you're here, that we're
1:20:01here together. It's absolute miracle.
1:20:03It's the result of billions and billions
1:20:06of years of processes in the universe
1:20:08which had nothing to do with us randomly
1:20:10bring us together at this at this point.
1:20:13It's It's really quite a miraculous
1:20:14situation to be alive, to be born at all
1:20:17is a miracle.
1:20:18Um I think it was Voltaire who, talking
1:20:20about reincarnation,
1:20:22uh who said, um "It's no more
1:20:24extraordinary to be born twice than to
1:20:26be born once."
1:20:28Uh and I think there's a point in that.
1:20:30>> Are you religious? Do you believe in a
1:20:31god or
1:20:31>> I would
1:20:32>> that I am um that I pay
1:20:35attention, close attention, to what I
1:20:38would regard as the spiritual,
1:20:39non-physical side of life. Um but I do
1:20:42not belong to any organized religion.
1:20:44One of the things I don't like about
1:20:45organized religion is that your
1:20:47relationship to the divine, whatever you
1:20:49call the divine, spirit world, whatever
1:20:51you want to call it, your relationship
1:20:52is mediated in some way, some priest or
1:20:57rabbi or mullah teaches you how to
1:21:00mediate that relationship. And I I think
1:21:02what's important in for me anyway in in
1:21:05the spiritual inquiry is a direct
1:21:06relationship, a direct experience,
1:21:08rather than being taught something. I
1:21:10want to experience it for myself. And
1:21:12that's why I found ayahuasca very, very
1:21:14valuable um because it has enabled me to
1:21:17experience something that is absolutely
1:21:20impossible to experience in normal
1:21:22everyday life. We're so plugged in.
1:21:24We're so plugged in to the physical
1:21:26world, and we have to be. We got to be.
1:21:28We got to obey the laws of physics. We
1:21:29got to deal with the economics of our
1:21:31circumstances. You know, we have to make
1:21:33our way through life. All of those
1:21:34things we've got to do.
1:21:36Um
1:21:37but
1:21:39if they become our total focus,
1:21:42we become shut off from everything and
1:21:44anything else that may exist. And what
1:21:47the big psychedelics can do, if they're
1:21:50taken in the right circumstances with
1:21:51the right advice,
1:21:54with sincere intention, what they can do
1:21:56is get you out of your own way and allow
1:21:59you to connect to that wider realm that
1:22:01normally you cannot connect to. And yes,
1:22:03I do believe that a wider realm exists.
1:22:06Uh just in the same way that uh you you
1:22:08you you
1:22:09you know, before the invention of the
1:22:10microscope, we had no idea that there
1:22:12were bacteria. I think I'm right about
1:22:14that. We started seeing these tiny
1:22:15little things swimming around. Gosh,
1:22:17major discovery. Well, they were always
1:22:19there. We just didn't have the kit to
1:22:20see them. And I'm suggesting that what
1:22:23psychedelics can be, and certainly what
1:22:24they're used as shamans by for, is a
1:22:28technology, a device.
1:22:30for getting you out of your own way and
1:22:32allowing you to connect with other
1:22:33levels of reality that in daily life it
1:22:36doesn't serve you to be connected with.
1:22:40>> The interesting thing about DMT in
1:22:41particular is when you speak to people
1:22:43who have done DMT. You know, I spent
1:22:45about a year working in a quite a big
1:22:47psychedelics company just to I got
1:22:49really fascinated. I'd left my company.
1:22:50I didn't have anything to do with my
1:22:52time.
1:22:53So, I started this podcast and I also on
1:22:55YouTube and I also started working at a
1:22:58psychedelics business cuz I found the
1:22:59the studies on mental health and
1:23:01psychedelics really interesting. So, I
1:23:02have quite a deep understanding, I guess
1:23:04higher than average of ibogaine and
1:23:06ayahuasca and DMT and my partner
1:23:09is very very spiritual and has done all
1:23:11these things as well. So,
1:23:13one of the fascinating things is how
1:23:14similar people's experiences are on
1:23:16something like DMT. The fun funnily
1:23:18enough, your description of these
1:23:20creatures saying, "You'll you belong to
1:23:23us now." is almost verbatim
1:23:26what what what one of my friends
1:23:28described 2 weeks ago.
1:23:30That they were teleported into this like
1:23:324K realm where these creatures that are
1:23:35like slightly animal in their anatomical
1:23:38structure, maybe slightly a little bit
1:23:39human as well, basically was like had
1:23:43had taken hold of him
1:23:45and they were very curious and
1:23:46inspecting him. Very colorful realm and
1:23:48then they kind of sent him back or at
1:23:49least, you know, after the And it and it
1:23:51does make one wonder. I think one of my
1:23:53conclusions was if if inhaling a small
1:23:55chemical
1:23:56can completely take me to another place,
1:24:00then and and if you from a reasoning
1:24:02perspective, it's just a it was an one
1:24:04inhale of a chemical,
1:24:06then it goes to say that my current
1:24:08perception of reality yeah,
1:24:11is just is as fragile as an inhale of a
1:24:15chemical. Like me thinking that I'm here
1:24:17with you now is as fragile as inhaling
1:24:21one chemical. So, to think that this is
1:24:23base reality when the difference between
1:24:25this and being with some grasshopper
1:24:27people
1:24:28>> Yeah.
1:24:28>> in 4K [laughter]
1:24:29>> Exactly.
1:24:30>> is literally an an ale. It just That for
1:24:32me I was like, "Oh, wow. Okay."
1:24:34>> It's an extraordinary realization when
1:24:37that comes and it causes us to question
1:24:38the nature of reality itself. And this
1:24:41is um
1:24:43This is what's really important about
1:24:45these medicines. First and foremost,
1:24:46you're right. The these um psychedelic
1:24:49medicines are proving incredibly
1:24:51effective as therapeutic tools. And
1:24:53that's great. I I I really
1:24:55think that's incredibly valuable. But
1:24:57there's another level to go, which is to
1:24:59the inquiry into the nature of reality
1:25:02and the inquiry into what consciousness
1:25:04is.
1:25:05These medicines are very effective means
1:25:07to conduct that inquiry and that's why I
1:25:09applaud what they're doing at Imperial
1:25:11College in London. They're also going to
1:25:13be doing trials at the University of
1:25:16California, San Diego.
1:25:18Um they're going to be doing trials in
1:25:20Costa Rica.
1:25:22Uh a whole range of places now are
1:25:23looking into this cuz it's really
1:25:24interesting. People coming back and
1:25:26reporting the same experience when they
1:25:28haven't compared notes yet. How do we
1:25:30explain that? Because it's in a vision
1:25:34and people say that at the moment the
1:25:36default mode is to dismiss it and say
1:25:38that's just rubbish. Don't waste time on
1:25:39it. Our preconceptions about the nature
1:25:43of reality should not limit our inquiry
1:25:47into the nature of reality. And at the
1:25:49moment, still unfortunately, there are
1:25:52preconceptions about the nature of
1:25:53reality, which is that it's
1:25:55material-based, that there's nothing
1:25:57else to it really. Everything is reduced
1:25:59to matter. Even consciousness is reduced
1:26:02to matter. It's reduced to the physical
1:26:04matter of the brain. We don't know that
1:26:06for sure. We don't know what's going on.
1:26:08Consciousness is absolutely not
1:26:10understood. And so, when we have
1:26:11mysteries like people who are injected a
1:26:15small dose of a chemical like DMT and go
1:26:17off into a completely other reality.
1:26:20That's really interesting. And it's it's
1:26:22it's it's at at least as interesting, if
1:26:25not more interesting, than exploring
1:26:27other planets right now. I think we need
1:26:29to I think we need to explore ourselves
1:26:31first. We need to
1:26:33We're not in shape as a species to start
1:26:36exploring the universe. We don't want to
1:26:38export our toxicity to other parts of
1:26:41the universe until we've overcome it,
1:26:43until we've grown up as a species, which
1:26:46we haven't done yet. We need to know
1:26:47ourselves. Psychedelics are one way to
1:26:49do that, not used irresponsibly, but
1:26:53used responsibly in a structured,
1:26:55careful, thoughtful way. They can be
1:26:58very helpful in knowing ourselves.
1:27:01That's the journey we need to do first.
1:27:03Go to Mars by all means, you know, go to
1:27:05the moon, we go even further, but do
1:27:08this first. Know who you are first
1:27:10before you start doing those bigger and
1:27:12wider investigations. Get all that
1:27:14sorted out, cuz we hardly sorted out
1:27:16anything on this planet, and we're
1:27:18talking about exploring other planets.
1:27:19Well, I'm all in favor of exploring
1:27:22other planets, but I'd like to sort out
1:27:24things on this planet first. That's
1:27:25where the resources should be going, and
1:27:27we should stop kidding ourselves that we
1:27:29can just escape this planet and make a
1:27:32complete of it, leave it, and
1:27:34go and live somewhere else. No, we can
1:27:35fix this. We are capable of fixing this.
1:27:38We are capable of fixing everything.
1:27:40Human beings have enormous potential.
1:27:42We're just using a fraction of 1% of it
1:27:46at the moment.
1:27:47>> The question I you know, I mean the
1:27:48obvious question that comes to mind is
1:27:50how. I see, you know, maybe
1:27:53I don't know, maybe some kind of leader
1:27:54comes along.
1:27:55>> Could be. Um
1:27:57I think we need to
1:27:59need to move past leaders.
1:28:00>> I just don't know how else humans would
1:28:01change without some kind of leadership.
1:28:03>> difficult to see. I agree with you. It's
1:28:05very It's very difficult to see how it
1:28:07happens. One person at a time,
1:28:09um slowly through through word of mouth,
1:28:11through experience. But look,
1:28:14everything in the ayahuasca garden is
1:28:16not all flowers either. There's a lot of
1:28:18very wrong behavior going on there.
1:28:20People are exploiting that medicine.
1:28:22Basically, drug dealers are exploiting
1:28:24that medicine and offering it
1:28:25irresponsibly to people in groups of 100
1:28:28or even more. That that that's that's
1:28:31actually really really stupid to do
1:28:33that. Ayahuasca is an intimate
1:28:35experience and it needs to be done in a
1:28:37very small group, not a very large
1:28:39group.
1:28:41So it's not it's not all roses. I'm not
1:28:43I you know, I'm not trying to paint
1:28:45these medicines in a
1:28:46in in a false light. They have their
1:28:48downsides. They have their problems.
1:28:50They are extremely serious. We should
1:28:53always research and investigate before
1:28:55any experience with psychedelics, but
1:28:57they have a part to play and it's an
1:28:59important part and thank God we're
1:29:01seeing its effects in psilocybin effect
1:29:03on long-term depression. Very important.
1:29:06Post-traumatic stress disorder, very
1:29:08important. These therapeutic
1:29:10breakthroughs hopefully will open the
1:29:13door to further inquiries into the kind
1:29:17of work that's being done at Imperial
1:29:18College. What does this really tell us
1:29:20about the mystery of consciousness? What
1:29:23does this really tell us about what we
1:29:24think is real?
1:29:26>> If you're thinking about starting a
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1:29:35our conversation cards to our diaries,
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1:30:27>> Through your journey through um ancient
1:30:29civilizations, what have you come to
1:30:31learn about what this consciousness
1:30:32thing is, if anything at all? Or at
1:30:34least what people believed?
1:30:35>> Yeah.
1:30:36>> Um and how those similar mythologies
1:30:37were similar.
1:30:38>> Yes, I've partly I've partly come to
1:30:40this through the ancient texts. There's
1:30:43a very specific uh scene in a number of
1:30:48the ancient Egyptian funerary text. It's
1:30:50called the judgment scene.
1:30:52And what you see is you see the deceased
1:30:55entering into a hall, into a room, at
1:30:57the end of which sits the god Osiris
1:30:59enthroned.
1:31:01And uh the deceased is led into the hall
1:31:04by the goddess Ma'at. She's recognized
1:31:06by a feather that she wears in a
1:31:08headdress. She's the goddess of truth,
1:31:10justice,
1:31:11and cosmic harmony.
1:31:14He enters
1:31:16the hall. There's a scale in the hall.
1:31:20In one pan of the scale
1:31:22is an object that represents his heart
1:31:24{oblique} his soul. Heart and soul were
1:31:27the same thing for the Egyptians in that
1:31:29sense.
1:31:30And in the other pan
1:31:32is the feather of Ma'at.
1:31:34The feather of truth, harmony, and
1:31:36cosmic justice.
1:31:38You do not want your heart to outweigh
1:31:40the feather
1:31:41at that moment.
1:31:43You want at the very least to be in
1:31:46balance.
1:31:48And in order to be in balance, then
1:31:50comes into question the whole way that
1:31:52you've lived your life. Up on the wall
1:31:54of the hall, there are 42 little
1:31:56figures. They're called the 42 negative
1:31:58assessors. Each one of them's going to
1:32:00ask you a question.
1:32:02Did you steal?
1:32:04Did you kill? Actually, the 10
1:32:05Commandments are all in there and a lot
1:32:06more as well.
1:32:08Ideally,
1:32:10you should be able to answer no to all
1:32:11of those questions, but the ancient
1:32:12Egyptians
1:32:14always understood how frail human beings
1:32:15are and that we can always make
1:32:17mistakes. The question is, what do we do
1:32:20when we make a mistake? Do we learn from
1:32:21it or do we keep on repeating it? And
1:32:23what I read into that is
1:32:25you were given
1:32:27you, the deceased, you were given an
1:32:29incredible opportunity.
1:32:31We allowed you to be born in a human
1:32:33body.
1:32:34You could have a range of experiences
1:32:36that no other physical form on your
1:32:38planet could have. You you you had this
1:32:40huge brain. You had this enormous
1:32:42capacity. We gave it this to you.
1:32:44What did you do with it?
1:32:48Did you use it well?
1:32:49Or did you squander it and waste it? And
1:32:51at that moment, you'd better be there
1:32:53with some answers about how you used it
1:32:55well.
1:32:56So, as I come towards the end of my
1:32:57life, I look very carefully at my life I
1:33:01and um
1:33:02I try to undo wrongs that I have done in
1:33:05the past if I can and I try to make sure
1:33:07I don't do any more in the future. I
1:33:08want to be a nurturing
1:33:11and positive
1:33:12and useful person to the people around
1:33:14me.
1:33:16>> The the health situation you've gone
1:33:17through is clearly made you quite
1:33:19introspective, probably more so than you
1:33:20you might have been 10 years ago, I'm
1:33:22guessing.
1:33:22>> Oh, yeah. Ab- absolutely. I was still
1:33:24immortal 10 years ago.
1:33:26>> [laughter]
1:33:27>> Listen, each and every one of us, every
1:33:29single human being on this planet could
1:33:32die in the next minute.
1:33:34Life is that fragile. It's that sudden.
1:33:37You can never predict you you how long
1:33:39you're going to live, but what something
1:33:41like this does, it focuses the mind and
1:33:44it does make me wish more and more that
1:33:47I can leave this life with
1:33:49as few regrets as possible
1:33:52and that I can feel that I played a
1:33:54useful and positive role
1:33:57in the life of others and that I
1:34:00even played
1:34:01in some way a useful and positive role
1:34:05in the life of the species
1:34:07to which I belong.
1:34:09>> Are you happy?
1:34:11>> I am very happy.
1:34:14In a lot of ways, I'm blessed to have
1:34:18lived the life I've lived,
1:34:20to have traveled the world, to have the
1:34:23adventures that I have had.
1:34:25I'm blessed with a beautiful and
1:34:27wonderful wife and companion, my wife
1:34:29Santha.
1:34:30>> I've got this wonderful picture of her.
1:34:31>> Yeah.
1:34:31>> She glows.
1:34:32>> That's me and Santha.
1:34:34We met when we were about 40 years old.
1:34:37And um
1:34:38I don't think we've been apart more than
1:34:414 days in the entire 30-plus years
1:34:44uh since then.
1:34:45>> Wow.
1:34:46>> Uh we do everything together. We travel
1:34:47together. Santha's a photographer,
1:34:49brilliant photographer. Um and and uh I
1:34:52do not have a great visual eye. So, we
1:34:53work together. I do the words, Santha
1:34:55does the pictures. We have the
1:34:56adventures together. We did the scuba
1:34:58diving together. Santha nearly lost her
1:35:00life twice in intense currents
1:35:03scuba diving. She's brave. She's an
1:35:06adventurer.
1:35:07She's a wonderful mother.
1:35:09This is so important. Santha and I have
1:35:11six children between us. Santha brought
1:35:14two from her previous marriage.
1:35:15I brought two from my first marriage and
1:35:17two from my second marriage.
1:35:19So, six children from three broken
1:35:21marriages is a potential disaster.
1:35:24Santha brought them all together into a
1:35:26group of loving, deeply committed
1:35:28siblings who care for one another, who
1:35:31are constantly in each other's lives,
1:35:32who are there to support one another.
1:35:34Santha did that
1:35:36by just being a brilliant, loving
1:35:38person. So, I'm very happy
1:35:41to have such a great partner
1:35:43who's stood by me through thick and thin
1:35:46and who's brought out these wonderful
1:35:48characters in in in our children and now
1:35:51our grandchildren. You know, nine
1:35:52grandchildren, six grandkids.
1:35:54All of it's down to Santa.
1:35:56>> It's remarkable that through all the
1:35:57wonders of human history and all the
1:35:58things we talked about, that love,
1:36:01like this kind of romantic love, is
1:36:05so central, so important, so central to
1:36:07our happiness. I just thought, "Oh, it's
1:36:09so It's just a wonderful reminder of um
1:36:11how easy it is to get caught up in the
1:36:13material and and all the toxic, whereas,
1:36:16you know,
1:36:17so much of it comes from just the
1:36:19simplicity of falling in love with
1:36:20someone."
1:36:20>> Love is what it's all about. And and
1:36:22love is love is giving. It's giving
1:36:24yourself
1:36:26to somebody else. It's putting the other
1:36:28person
1:36:29Sorry, I'm going to end up crying. This
1:36:31This is what my [clears throat] wife
1:36:32does
1:36:33all the time with everybody.
1:36:37She puts other people first.
1:36:39And uh
1:36:41others benefit enormously from that. I'm
1:36:43very fortunate.
1:36:45I think I think if I hadn't met Santa
1:36:49when I did and we hadn't formed this
1:36:51joint life,
1:36:53I think
1:36:55I would have made nothing of my life.
1:36:56Nothing at all. I think it would have
1:36:58just gone down the tubes. I needed a
1:37:00loving steering hand at that point.
1:37:03Anyway, very lucky. I I I am happy.
1:37:05There are things that make me unhappy,
1:37:06of course, just like every every every
1:37:08other human being. I I
1:37:10don't understand why those who are
1:37:13bitterly opposed to my work want to try
1:37:15and present me as some kind of fraud or
1:37:17grifter, but I suppose it's a easy way
1:37:20to lazily dismiss somebody else. Uh
1:37:22another thing that has been used
1:37:25is because I've considered the
1:37:27possibility of a lost civilization
1:37:29having an influence on other known
1:37:32historical civilization, uh I've been
1:37:34accused of racism, as well.
1:37:36That I've been I've been accused of
1:37:38taking away the authenticity of
1:37:40indigenous achievements.
1:37:42Um and and that again has been without
1:37:45without any receipts. It's not been it's
1:37:47just thrown out there as an accusation.
1:37:50Now, for me with with a multi-ethnic
1:37:52family,
1:37:54uh that racism abuse that has been
1:37:56thrown at me constantly uh is extremely
1:37:59hurtful and extremely painful. It's one
1:38:02of the few things that have been thrown
1:38:03at me that I actually cannot forgive.
1:38:06It's unforgivable to use that lazy
1:38:11easy dismissal.
1:38:14In a society where a lot of people don't
1:38:15read anymore, I mean, I can pretty much
1:38:17guarantee people who hear that on the
1:38:19internet, they're not going to go and
1:38:20read the books and actually find out
1:38:21what I said. They're just going to take
1:38:23it as face value. So, that does hurt and
1:38:25it does make me sad. But generally, I'm
1:38:27blessed. I'm lucky. I've lived a
1:38:29fantastic
1:38:31privileged life. I've explored the
1:38:33world. I'm surrounded by love and
1:38:36onwards and upwards as far as I'm
1:38:38concerned.
1:38:39>> Well, you know, Graham, I think at the
1:38:41end of the day, the thing that endures
1:38:43is
1:38:44the impact the curiosity that you've
1:38:46you've provoked in people, allowed them
1:38:48to wonder beyond the narrowness of our
1:38:50lives, which is quite miserable. A
1:38:52narrow life is feels kind of like a
1:38:53miserable life where you can't be
1:38:54open-minded and explore. And And that's
1:38:56why I love these conversations. It's not
1:38:57to say that I
1:38:59that I always accept when I have these
1:39:00kind of conversations everything to be
1:39:01100% true. But the net benefit for me is
1:39:04just expanding my mind to possibility.
1:39:07>> Absolutely.
1:39:08>> And like, please don't rob me of the
1:39:09opportunity to expand my mind to
1:39:11possibility.
1:39:12What would my life become without
1:39:14possibility or hope or all these things?
1:39:16And And actually, when I look at
1:39:18graphs like this that show how our
1:39:19beliefs uh and scientific understanding
1:39:22has changed even in recent times as as
1:39:24recent as 2017
1:39:26on this particular graph, I go, "Well,
1:39:28I'd have some arrogance to assume that I
1:39:29know it all today."
1:39:30>> Totally. Thing Things are Things are
1:39:32constantly changing. You know, every
1:39:34turn of the spade in an archaeological
1:39:37dig can change the whole story. Change
1:39:39the whole story. This is not limited to
1:39:41archaeology. This is found in all fields
1:39:43where there are specialists
1:39:45that they they tend to get locked into a
1:39:47particular reference frame and actually
1:39:49defend it in a territorial way. It
1:39:52becomes like a war and they they they
1:39:55feel absolutely responsible to defend
1:39:57that territory against all comers and
1:39:59will use any dirty tricks that are
1:40:00needed to be used in order to defeat the
1:40:02enemy. So you asked me a straight
1:40:04forward question,
1:40:06am I happy? Yes, I am happy and I
1:40:08honestly answered you that there are
1:40:09certain things particularly the racism
1:40:12assaults on me that do make me extremely
1:40:14unhappy.
1:40:15>> What else do I need to know about
1:40:18the the possibility of an ancient
1:40:19civilization that might inform how I
1:40:22think about myself, my life and I guess
1:40:25also our future. What I found so
1:40:26fascinating is especially we're in a
1:40:28moment of this AI revolution where
1:40:30you've got these sort of big forces of
1:40:31you've got nuclear weapons over here,
1:40:32you've now got this advanced
1:40:33intelligence, there's humanoid robots on
1:40:35the horizon.
1:40:36And if there was ever a moment where the
1:40:38word you know existential is being used
1:40:41in a in a way that is probably
1:40:42appropriate, for me it feels like now.
1:40:44>> Yeah, feels like now to me too.
1:40:47This is a no doubt
1:40:50our species is poised on the edge of an
1:40:52abyss right now.
1:40:54Our technology has outgrown our
1:40:56mentality
1:40:58and we're not
1:41:00we're not in good shape to deal with the
1:41:02times that lie ahead. I I
1:41:04unfortunately the chances of a nuclear
1:41:07exchange are just higher and higher and
1:41:09that's just a realistic assessment of
1:41:10the way the world is with this maniacal
1:41:12leaders. So what could we learn from the
1:41:14past that we I I I believe we can learn
1:41:16that there's another way to live, that
1:41:18we don't have to do it this way.
1:41:20>> How do you know?
1:41:21>> I I that's that's something I believe.
1:41:24>> Okay, believe.
1:41:24>> That's something I don't know.
1:41:26>> Okay.
1:41:27>> I guess I'm optimistic that human beings
1:41:29have made it through
1:41:32all these centuries, all these thousands
1:41:34of years, all these hundreds of
1:41:36thousands of years, that we've made it
1:41:38through, we've made terrible mistakes,
1:41:40done terrible things. I mean, look at
1:41:41the Second World War.
1:41:44God knows how many people were killed
1:41:45there. 20 million Russians alone, if I
1:41:47remember correctly. It's just horrific,
1:41:48absolute horror.
1:41:50It's on
1:41:52When I was born in 1950, the Second
1:41:54World War was only 5 years away and at
1:41:56the end of it and it hung over us, you
1:41:58know, you were our generation were aware
1:42:00of that, but it seems to me
1:42:02people today aren't aware of the horror
1:42:04of global war in the way that they were
1:42:06then and and and that adds to the
1:42:10to the danger that we will immolate
1:42:13ourselves.
1:42:14I think a new approach to the nature of
1:42:16reality is really vital. I think we we
1:42:18need to begin to understand
1:42:20consciousness better.
1:42:22Uh and what I would wish for the human
1:42:24species
1:42:27is that we understand we are actually
1:42:28all one.
1:42:30Incredibly diverse,
1:42:32full of creativity and differences, but
1:42:34but all one and a mother in the middle
1:42:38of sub-Saharan Africa and a mother in
1:42:40New York City, they love their kids in
1:42:42exactly the same way.
1:42:45They hope for their kids in exactly the
1:42:46same way. There's no difference between
1:42:48them at all.
1:42:50As long as we're as long as we're
1:42:51indoctrinated into this notion of
1:42:54divisive differences. I'm all in favor
1:42:56of differences between human beings.
1:42:59That's part of our creativity as our
1:43:01species, but divisive differences,
1:43:04that's what's going to kill us off.
1:43:06Uh and that's I think the message that
1:43:08comes down from the past, whether it's
1:43:10correct message or not, the message is
1:43:14we
1:43:15a former civilization
1:43:17made a terrible mistake and it resulted
1:43:22in a cataclysm that brought us down.
1:43:25I think we need to realize that can
1:43:26happen again
1:43:27and that we are
1:43:29most likely to be the cause of that
1:43:31cataclysm ourselves.
1:43:33There may there may be a danger of
1:43:35further comet impacts. The Younger Dryas
1:43:38comet fragments, it's called the Taurid
1:43:40meteor stream. The Earth passes through
1:43:42it twice a year
1:43:44in June and in October-November.
1:43:47There are hundreds of deadly objects in
1:43:50the Taurid meteor stream. It could
1:43:52happen, but I think a much more likely
1:43:54way that we're going to
1:43:56bring our civilization
1:43:57back almost to the Stone Age
1:44:01is nuclear war.
1:44:03We're going to do it to ourselves.
1:44:05Unless we wake up, unless we
1:44:09become more conscious of what it is to
1:44:11be a human being, of the privilege and
1:44:12the gift of being a human being, and how
1:44:15that privilege and gift belongs to every
1:44:17human being, not just to us.
1:44:20Now, I don't know how that's going to be
1:44:21done. I I I do think psychedelics can
1:44:24play a role.
1:44:26I've said many times, and I'll say it
1:44:27again, if I if I had the power to do so,
1:44:30I would insist that every world leader
1:44:33has at least
1:44:34at least a dozen sessions of ayahuasca
1:44:37before they even apply for the job.
1:44:40>> Because you believe that would give them
1:44:41the same feeling of oneness that
1:44:43>> I think most of them wouldn't apply for
1:44:44the job at all.
1:44:45>> Oh, really?
1:44:46>> And those who did would would probably
1:44:48do a much better job.
1:44:49>> Hm.
1:44:50>> Because they'd understand themselves
1:44:52better.
1:44:54>> Graham, what is the most important thing
1:44:55we haven't discussed as it relates to
1:44:58our past and what it might teach us or
1:45:01you know, how it might inform how we
1:45:02choose to live our lives today
1:45:04and that we haven't discussed?
1:45:06>> Look, the most important thing as far as
1:45:08far as I'm concerned is independent
1:45:09inquiry.
1:45:11We need to start thinking for ourselves,
1:45:13and that's true of the past and it's
1:45:14true of everything else.
1:45:16To the to the extent that I that I do
1:45:19get positive feedback from young people,
1:45:21and I do
1:45:22a lot, that feedback is
1:45:25thank you for being an example to
1:45:27question everything.
1:45:28>> Mhm.
1:45:29>> It happens that what I'm questioning is
1:45:32the past, but that can be a model for
1:45:35questioning everything. I I feel that
1:45:39that
1:45:41very poor journalism
1:45:43being used to smear my name because I
1:45:47asked questions and because I asked them
1:45:49vigorously
1:45:50and because most important of all I
1:45:53reached a large audience.
1:45:55That's it, really. They won't smear
1:45:57smear your name if you don't reach a
1:45:58large audience. You're not worth their
1:46:00trouble.
1:46:00>> I know the feeling.
1:46:01>> Yeah.
1:46:02>> But I think you do. But you know, for me
1:46:04my thing has always been that um
1:46:06all it's done is made me clearer, like,
1:46:08you know, you have a bigger platform,
1:46:09more people um watching you, etc., and
1:46:11talking about you. All it's done for me
1:46:13is made me clearer on my principles and
1:46:16what I believe.
1:46:17>> Yeah.
1:46:17>> And I'm actually really thankful for
1:46:18that in a weird way.
1:46:19>> Yeah.
1:46:19>> Because you're forced to, you know, when
1:46:20you hear so many things said about said
1:46:22about you, written about you, whatever,
1:46:23it does focus one's mind like, like, who
1:46:25am I?
1:46:26>> Yeah.
1:46:26>> And what matters? What am I Where am I
1:46:28uncompromising in terms of the
1:46:30conversations I want to have, the way I
1:46:31want to do it? And that's given me a
1:46:33huge amount of clarity. And one of the
1:46:34things that I'm really I really want to
1:46:36make sure is that it doesn't make me um
1:46:39bitter or resentful in any way.
1:46:42>> And you can see how it happens.
1:46:43>> Yeah, I can I can absolutely see how it
1:46:45happens.
1:46:46>> Cuz you you have to live with this with
1:46:47with um
1:46:48injustice potentially or being
1:46:51mischaracterized or whatever, so
1:46:53it's easy to see how one can slip off
1:46:54into bitterness and resentment and to
1:46:56>> That's a That's a big part of the work
1:46:57I'm doing on myself at the moment. I I'm
1:47:01confident that I am doing the right
1:47:03thing with my life. I'm doing no harm to
1:47:05anyone
1:47:06and I'm putting ideas out there that are
1:47:08worth thinking about. I'm confident of
1:47:10that. I have no I have no doubts about
1:47:11that.
1:47:12>> And what will you care about on your on
1:47:14your last day?
1:47:16>> Most of all
1:47:17the love of my family.
1:47:20That's the most important thing to me.
1:47:22And um
1:47:23I don't know. The feeling that
1:47:28I did my best.
1:47:29I did the best I could to
1:47:32carry out the task that uh fell upon me
1:47:36quite by accident. I didn't I was a
1:47:38current affairs journalist in the 1980s.
1:47:40I had no idea I was going to go down
1:47:42this rabbit hole into the ancient world.
1:47:44It was a series of accidents that led to
1:47:47it. But having gone down it, I feel very
1:47:50very very committed to it.
1:47:52>> It's interesting cuz well one of the
1:47:53ways that I um I've always chosen to
1:47:55conduct my interviews is just to um
1:47:57touch people as I find them. I remember
1:47:59once upon a time I had Brian Johnson
1:48:00coming on my podcast and you know, he's
1:48:01quite a he's a he has some radical
1:48:04beliefs about living forever etc. He's
1:48:05the longevity guy. [clears throat] And I
1:48:07remember one of my team members walking
1:48:08up to me beforehand and saying before he
1:48:10had arrived and saying, "What do you
1:48:10think of him?" And I remember saying,
1:48:12"I've no idea. I've not met him yet."
1:48:13>> Yeah.
1:48:14>> And then I sat down with him, had this
1:48:15interview, and he said this thing to me
1:48:16at the end of the interview where he
1:48:17goes, "Thank you." And I go, "What do
1:48:19you mean?" He goes, "Thank you."
1:48:20>> This is the first time I've done an
1:48:20interview in my life where the
1:48:22interviewer had like no preconceptions
1:48:23of me. And he goes, "That meant that I
1:48:25was relaxed and able to be myself and
1:48:27blah blah blah." And I And I say that
1:48:28because
1:48:30my opinion of you is someone who is
1:48:33really curious about about humanity and
1:48:36has this interesting idea that is really
1:48:38expansive for one's mind about what
1:48:40could have happened. And um I again the
1:48:43net benefit for me of that is just
1:48:46expanding my mind in a way that makes me
1:48:49empathetic to other people.
1:48:50>> Yeah.
1:48:51>> Makes me feel like me and you aren't
1:48:53different.
1:48:54>> Yeah.
1:48:54>> Like I've not I've met you today, but
1:48:56we're probably you know, we we we go
1:48:57back a long way. Maybe consciously we're
1:48:59the same, but
1:48:59>> Mhm.
1:49:00>> in our history and our lineage we are we
1:49:02are one of the same. And um it also
1:49:05gives me a huge amount of respect for
1:49:08other living things including my
1:49:11ancestors.
1:49:12>> Mhm.
1:49:12>> In a way that you kind of think of your
1:49:13ancestors as these like monkeys that
1:49:14lived in trees potentially.
1:49:16But actually hearing some of these
1:49:17stories makes me go, "Oh my gosh." And
1:49:19actually it gives me a huge sense of
1:49:20responsibility
1:49:22to leave this planet and this earth in a
1:49:24way that's going to be good for,
1:49:26you know, the future the future kids
1:49:28that will live 20,000 years from now in
1:49:29the future and that will probably look
1:49:31at our um fossil records and wonder.
1:49:33>> I think I think those of us who have a a
1:49:35platform do have a responsibility.
1:49:37>> Mhm.
1:49:37>> Very [clears throat] very definitely. I
1:49:39mean, we're living in this strange new
1:49:40world. This this this this this world
1:49:42was inconceivable even in the beginning
1:49:44of the 1990s.
1:49:45>> Mhm.
1:49:46>> This this [clears throat] this this
1:49:47world of communication that we live in
1:49:49now. And there's no doubt that that um
1:49:52this is where influence
1:49:54can be applied. And and
1:49:57if that influence is
1:50:00encouraging all that's good in the human
1:50:02race, then that's really great. That's a
1:50:04wonderful thing. And if it's encouraging
1:50:06all that's dark and negative and cruel
1:50:08and unkind and vicious in the human
1:50:10race, cuz that's also out there on the
1:50:11internet, then it's not so good.
1:50:14>> We have a um
1:50:16closing tradition on this show where the
1:50:17last guest leaves the question for the
1:50:18next, not knowing who they're leaving it
1:50:19for. And the question left for you is,
1:50:22is there a danger of us sleepwalking
1:50:24into worshipping a machine god?
1:50:29>> Do you want me to answer that question?
1:50:30Yes, we're already worshipping a machine
1:50:32god. As I said earlier in our
1:50:34discussion,
1:50:36uh in the minds of many,
1:50:38science has already been elevated to
1:50:40occupy the space that was once occupied
1:50:42by religions.
1:50:45That is a belief in a machine
1:50:47fundamentally that's taking place there.
1:50:50Science should be seen as a tool, one
1:50:52amongst many tools that we as human
1:50:55beings have at our disposal. It should
1:50:57never be the only tool, and it should
1:51:00never be worshipped. I don't ever want
1:51:02to hear the words, "Trust the science."
1:51:06The words for me are, "Investigate the
1:51:08science. See whether it's right for you
1:51:11or not. See what else is available in
1:51:14the in the in the situation. Don't just
1:51:17routinely, without thought, without
1:51:19question, trust the science. Don't do
1:51:21that. That's That's betraying science as
1:51:23well.
1:51:24One of fundamental ethics of science is
1:51:26not to trust the science. It's to
1:51:28question
1:51:29and challenge the science. That's what
1:51:32we should be doing with the science. And
1:51:33yes, we are in danger of creating a kind
1:51:37of
1:51:38multi-dimensional machine which reaches
1:51:41into all aspects of human consciousness
1:51:43and and controls us, yeah.
1:51:46We've got to stop worshipping science.
1:51:48That's for sure. We've got to
1:51:50put it in its rightful place as an
1:51:52incredibly valuable tool which which can
1:51:55do great things for human beings, but
1:51:57which can also do terrible harm and
1:51:59damage.
1:52:00>> Because when we trust science, there's
1:52:01something we stop listening to?
1:52:04>> Well, when you put your trust in
1:52:06anything, you better have good reason to
1:52:07put your trust in it.
1:52:09If I If I'm going to trust another human
1:52:11being
1:52:12with my life, I I really want to know
1:52:15that I can trust that person. I'm I'm
1:52:16not just going to say
1:52:18Oh, you're a doctor, so I trust you. No,
1:52:20it's not That's not enough. I want to
1:52:21know more about that doctor. And uh in
1:52:25in in indeed I have pursued that just
1:52:27recently.
1:52:28Science is great. Science is really
1:52:30useful, but we're not
1:52:32we're not being what we should be. We're
1:52:34not
1:52:35living up to the potential that the
1:52:37universe gave us if we just go around
1:52:39trusting everything all the time. We're
1:52:42here to ask questions. That's what we
1:52:44got these enormous brains for and this
1:52:46incredible connectivity is to ask
1:52:48questions. Anybody who says don't ask
1:52:51questions is doing a great deal of harm.
1:52:53>> Well, I hope my audience are very
1:52:55curious. Um and I think they must be by
1:52:57now if they're still hanging around on
1:52:58this platform because we've had lots of
1:53:00very curious conversations and hopefully
1:53:02expansive. I We have this acronym DAC
1:53:05obviously it for Darvo CEO, but also we
1:53:07think of it as like
1:53:08being for dreamers and open-minded
1:53:10people, which is the O, and that the A
1:53:11being about expanding awareness, and the
1:53:13C really being about feeling more
1:53:14connected.
1:53:15>> Brilliant.
1:53:15>> Like hearing your story and about your
1:53:17your partner and your journey and your
1:53:18parents all makes me all, you know, I
1:53:20think if there's it makes us like
1:53:22spiritually connected in a way that's
1:53:24>> increasingly rare. If people want to
1:53:26learn and read more from you, Graham,
1:53:28where do they go?
1:53:29>> Mhm.
1:53:29>> I mean, you've written so many wonderful
1:53:30books. You've got another one on the
1:53:31way.
1:53:32>> I have another
1:53:32>> all of these books you've written and
1:53:34the others that aren't here below.
1:53:35>> Okay. Um um very briefly, the the
1:53:39the book that put me on the map was
1:53:40Fingerprints of the Gods.
1:53:42>> Yeah.
1:53:42>> And that's the book where I really
1:53:44investigate begin to investigate the
1:53:46possibility of a lost civilization.
1:53:48Before that came The Sign and the Seal,
1:53:50which was which was about Ethiopia's
1:53:53claim to possess the lost Ark of the
1:53:55Covenant. It happened that as a reporter
1:53:57in the 1980s, I spent a lot of time in
1:53:59Ethiopia, and I came across this
1:54:01tradition, which is fundamental to
1:54:04all religious life in Ethiopia. Uh and
1:54:07and um ended up writing a book about it
1:54:09that
1:54:10put me on the track of a lost
1:54:11civilization, led to Fingerprints of the
1:54:13Gods.
1:54:14Then, after Fingerprints of the Gods,
1:54:16there's a book that's not here, which is
1:54:18Keeper of Genesis, that I wrote with
1:54:19Robert Bauval. Underworld. This was 7
1:54:23years of scuba diving that Santha and I
1:54:25did all around the world following up
1:54:27tips from local fishermen, local divers.
1:54:30They'd seen something interesting,
1:54:32something that looked man-made at a
1:54:34depth of 30 m just offshore there, and
1:54:37they would take us and we would find it.
1:54:39Uh so, Underworld is about all those
1:54:41flooded continental shelves, 27 million
1:54:45square kilometers of continental shelf
1:54:47were flooded at the end of the ice age.
1:54:49That's 27 million square kilometers.
1:54:51That's Europe and China and a bit more
1:54:53combined. Uh were the best real estate
1:54:56on Earth
1:54:57uh 20,000 years ago and are all
1:54:59underwater today.
1:55:00>> And and there's signs that there was
1:55:01life there.
1:55:02>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
1:55:04>> Civilizations though?
1:55:04>> Yeah. Well, there Well, we found very
1:55:06large structures underwater.
1:55:08Um so, that's that's uh Underworld.
1:55:10Then, after Underworld, I wrote
1:55:12Supernatural, which is that one there.
1:55:15Which has been reissued in America under
1:55:17the title Visionary. And that's where I
1:55:20went deep into the shamanistic
1:55:22medicines, the the ayahuasca,
1:55:26psilocybin, the and and the whole notion
1:55:29that cave art, the art that we see in
1:55:32the painted caves,
1:55:34is
1:55:35an art of visions. That this is shamans
1:55:38who had entered deeply altered states of
1:55:40consciousness. They'd remembered what
1:55:42they'd seen. And when they came back to
1:55:44the everyday state of consciousness,
1:55:45they painted their visions in caves.
1:55:47It's the best explanation for cave art
1:55:49and why cave art is so similar all
1:55:51around the world. And so similar to the
1:55:53visions of ayahuasca shamans to this
1:55:55day.
1:55:56>> Graham, thank you so much for all that
1:55:57you do. I I won't repeat every all the
1:55:59reasons why, but you've you've blown my
1:56:00mind open in a way that's just driven
1:56:02curiosity. And I think that's maybe
1:56:05the start of all inquiries deep
1:56:06curiosity, and that's what you've done
1:56:07for not just myself, but the hundreds of
1:56:09millions of people that have watched you
1:56:10over the years um all over the world.
1:56:12And I hope long may it continue, and
1:56:14good luck with your heart operation. And
1:56:16hopefully we'll be back again to
1:56:17continue this conversation soon.
1:56:18>> Absolutely. Thank you very much.
1:56:20>> it. Thank you so
1:56:20>> Really good to be here.
1:56:21>> Thank you so much. That was brilliant.
1:56:22YouTube have this new crazy algorithm
1:56:24where they know exactly what video you
1:56:26would like to watch next based on AI and
1:56:28all of your viewing behavior. And the
1:56:30algorithm says that this video is the
1:56:33perfect video for you. It's different
1:56:35for everybody looking right now. Check
1:56:37this video out. I bet you you might love
1:56:39it.

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