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Google Ads, Systemic Nuances, and Owning a Domain ft. Kasim Aslam — Transcript

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0:00Hey, best ever listeners. Welcome back
0:01to Unlimited Capital with Richard McGur.
0:04So, a lot of people don't know this.
0:05Well, nobody knows this because I've
0:07never said it on air, but the name
0:08Unlimited Capital, where it came from
0:11was a very well-known marketing podcast
0:14that was called Perpetual Traffic. It's
0:16a very long established uh like ad
0:20buying show. It's been about Facebook
0:22ads. It's been about PPC. It's been
0:23around there for a long time. It's a top
0:251% podcast in the world. One of the
0:27co-hosts for a long time was a guy named
0:30uh Kasum Oslam and he sold his agency
0:34solutions 8 while I was listening to the
0:36show for a very good outcome eight
0:38figures and his co-host asked what are
0:41you going to do next and he said I want
0:43to get into real estate syndications and
0:45that was about three years ago and so
0:47fast forward today when I was or not
0:50today about eight months ago when I
0:51started being a host on this show my
0:53producer Spencer when we were first
0:56starting up the concept to the show.
0:57Number one, I really like the name
0:59Perpetual Traffic because it it's like
1:01the outcome is right there in the show.
1:03And so the name Unlimited Capital was
1:06actually pretty directly, even though
1:07I'm not the one who came up with
1:08Unlimited Capital, Matt Faircloth was,
1:11but you can tell Unlimited Capital
1:14Perpetual Traffic very much kind of
1:16named after that show. And when you
1:19combine that with the fact that the guy
1:20said he wanted to go into syndications,
1:22Spencer said, "Who do you want on the
1:24show?" And one of the only names that I
1:25ever mentioned at the time was like, I
1:26want to talk to Kasam Muslim because
1:28he's like one of the best marketers in
1:30the game from the biggest marketing
1:31podcast and apparently been off the grid
1:34a little bit, but is doing real estate
1:36syndications now. And I said, I want to
1:37know what happened. And so, you're never
1:39going to believe it, but like two weeks
1:40ago, Spencer texted me and he said, I
1:42got him. Kum is coming on the show. And
1:45so without further ado, here is my
1:48interview with Kasum Oslam, formerly of
1:52the Perpetual Traffic Podcast and
1:54currently at a um offshore talent agency
1:58and also the owner of syndications.com.
2:00So I hope you guys enjoy this. Ium,
2:03welcome to Unlimited Capital.
2:04>> Richard, thanks for having me.
2:06Appreciate you a lot.
2:07>> Yeah. So I mean it's really a honor to
2:09have you on the show. I I would also
2:11tell you very directly that the name of
2:13the show Unlimited Capital is a direct
2:15homage to Perpetual Traffic when I was
2:18naming the show because it's a great
2:20name. I mean like as soon as back when I
2:22was studying ads, you read it and you're
2:24like, I want perpetual traffic.
2:25>> Yeah.
2:25>> Like that's an outcome.
2:27>> Can I tell you the story of the name?
2:29>> Yeah.
2:29>> I didn't know this. It was Perry
2:31Belchure. Perry Belchure coined the term
2:33perpetual traffic while he was still a
2:35part partner at Digital Marketer. and
2:37Perpetual Traffic went to Ryan Dice,
2:39which then went to Ralph Burns. And so,
2:41it's been like bought and sold half
2:43dozen times.
2:44>> And I think Ralph's about to take it out
2:46back and shoot it is is what I've heard.
2:48He didn't tell me that, but I I'm pretty
2:50sure they're rebranding.
2:52>> So, okay.
2:53>> Yeah. I And maybe I shouldn't have said
2:55that out loud. I don't know if I've just
2:57let Ralph's Ralph's cat out of his bag,
2:59but I think it's a beautiful name, and I
3:01do see how and why it could be limiting.
3:04>> Yeah, I see. I see what you mean. Yeah.
3:06I mean, the reason I like the the name
3:08is that it's got like the result right
3:10in the name.
3:10>> Yeah.
3:11>> You know, and you're just like, man,
3:13Barry's the best at naming everything.
3:15He he might be the smartest man I've
3:16ever been in business with. I love him a
3:18lot. He's so He's just I I always say
3:20this, there's not a human in the world
3:22that can skate to where the puck is
3:23going better than Perry Belchure.
3:25>> Yeah, that is a quite a skill. One that
3:28I wish that I had more of, that's for
3:29sure. I would say that I'm more of like
3:30a early majority guy. I don't have that
3:34like telepathic sense of like where the
3:35demand is going. I'd say you know who
3:37else is very good at that is of course
3:38who's the Bellarusian guy. Uh like the
3:40the hustle heart. Oh, what am I saying
3:42here? Anyways, we'll we'll edit this.
3:44Who was it? Oh, the guy
3:47>> Crayon.
3:48>> Oh, Gary Vee. Gary Vaynerchuk. How could
3:49I be so stupid?
3:51>> Is he from Barus?
3:52>> Yes, he was born there.
3:54>> Oh, I didn't know that at all.
3:55>> Yeah.
3:55>> Yeah. Yeah.
3:56>> I I used to have a business in Barus.
3:58That's the reason. And my wife is from
3:59there. So,
4:02>> yeah.
4:02>> Yeah. That's how I think of him. No one
4:03else identifies Gary Vee as like the guy
4:05from
4:05>> That's when you're like the Barus scene
4:06guy. I was like, dude, I have no idea.
4:08My Yeah, my Bellarus trivia is lacking
4:11for sure.
4:12>> Yeah. I mean, so anyways, the reason
4:15that I wanted to have you on here is
4:18that so a little bit of your background,
4:21you owned the largest Google SE or
4:24sorry, search engine marketing firm in
4:26the world. Correct.
4:28We were the the number one ranked Google
4:30Ads agency in the world when I sold it.
4:32And to my knowledge, now there's no
4:34governing body that tells you this, but
4:36to my knowledge, we were the largest uh
4:38Google Ads focused agency. So, we
4:40weren't the largest agency that did
4:42Google Ads because there's a bunch of
4:43great big agencies that do a billion
4:44things.
4:45>> But as far as like agencies that only
4:47did Google Ads, we were the biggest.
4:49>> Yeah. And then while I was a big
4:52listener, well, while while you were a
4:53host on Perpetual Traffic, after you
4:56sold the company, the co-host asked you
4:59a question like, "What are you going to
5:01do next?" And you said, "Real Estate
5:03Syndications."
5:04>> And so that's why when I started hosting
5:06the show and my producer Spencer said,
5:08"Who do you want on the show?" You were
5:10one of only a couple names where I was
5:12like, "I want to talk to that guy and I
5:13want to know like what happened." Uh,
5:15I'm still I'm working at it. I I Do you
5:17know Brandon Turner?
5:18>> Yes. So, the reason I wanted to do that
5:20was because of Brandon. Brandon's a
5:22buddy and I made my exit and Brandon
5:24gave me the best advice I I I got
5:26pre-exit. I'm about to get this great
5:28big bag of money. And I'm a dude. I
5:30mean, like, worst thing you do to poor
5:31people is give us money. You know what I
5:33mean? Cuz I'm a welfare baby. I've never
5:35seen, you know, seven much less eight
5:37figures. And Brandon's like, cuz
5:40Brandon's seen a lot of people come into
5:41a lot of money. That's what happens.
5:42People come into money and they go, they
5:44hand it to Brandon Turner. And he's an
5:46extraordinary human. He's I, you know, I
5:47have nothing but good things to say
5:48about him. And so I met Brandon through
5:50Steve Sims, who was my speaking coach.
5:53And Brandon, he's like, "Dude, you got
5:55to do me a favor." He's like, "You're
5:56not allowed to do anything for a year."
5:59And he's like, "I see way too many guys,
6:02they cash the check and they dive right
6:03into something and that you're just
6:05asking for problems and errors and
6:07issues." And I was like, "All right,
6:09okay. Good advice. And I really want to
6:13like I want to go after first I want
6:15$100 million and then I want a billion
6:17dollars. Like and you know people
6:19listening I guess this podcast might be
6:21a little bit more forgiving but so many
6:23folks like dude why do you I drive a
6:2540-year-old Honda. You know what I mean?
6:26Like I I'm not I don't have a San Diego
6:29beach house. I don't need a super car.
6:31For me money is how we keep score
6:34>> and I want to be in the room when
6:35conversations happen that matter. And it
6:37just feels to me like if you're going to
6:39play the entrepreneurial game, that's
6:40that's the way to play and to win. And
6:41so, you know, I had a 10igure exit,
6:44which is I excuse me, I had an eight
6:45figure exit. I want a nine figure exit
6:47and then I want a 10 figure exit. That's
6:48what I want. I want $100 million. I want
6:50a billion dollars. [snorts]
6:51>> And and so
6:52>> I very much relate to that, by the way.
6:54>> Yeah. Right. I mean, it's kind of the
6:55it's kind of the thing, right? That's
6:56what we're going to go do. Brennan and I
6:58had a conversation about that and he's
7:00like honestly the only way I know of
7:03that I mean cuz unless you're in like
7:06biotech or pharma or big oil like if you
7:10look at all the categories that have
7:12nine and 10 figure possibilities
7:16you know I I affectionately refer to
7:18people like me as junkyard dogs right
7:20like I don't I have a 10th grade
7:22education never seen an Ivy League
7:24school
7:25>> don't have the pedigree I don't I've
7:27never been on you know what I mean like
7:28the the loafers with no socks and white
7:30pants type of people don't talk to me so
7:32I don't have access to all that [snorts]
7:34and Brandon's like paraphrasing he's
7:36like the only way I've ever seen
7:38junkyard dogs do that reliably
7:40predictably
7:41>> is real estate syndication. So that was
7:43the genesis of the conversation you
7:45heard on perpetual traffic was after me
7:47I spoke to Brandon Turner and I'm like
7:50and he's like this is the way to do that
7:51dude and uh and he's not wrong if you
7:53really look at the actuary tables like
7:55that's the way
7:57>> to to at least position the math in your
7:59in your favor. So here's what I did. I
8:01went and I bought syndications.com for
8:03way too much money Richard. Uh so I own
8:06I own the domain which in my world means
8:09I I'm about to own the industry now.
8:10Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. But
8:12Perry Belture taught me that too. Perry
8:13Belture owns conventions.com.
8:15>> And he he and he he told me he's like,
8:17"Dude, if you own a one-word domain, at
8:19an absolute minimum, it'll get your your
8:21phone call answered by just about
8:22anybody, you know." So Perry can call up
8:25the whoever the head of MGM and be like,
8:27"Hey, I own conventions.com." And and
8:28the guy's going to be like, "Okay,
8:29what's going on here?" So I own a few of
8:31those, but I own syndications.com.
8:34And since then I've partnered with and
8:37fun fact I I forced Brandon to take
8:39equity and syndication.com
8:41>> to his dismay to his I the poor man
8:44kicking and screaming let me tell you
8:46because he knew exactly what I was
8:48doing. I want to be able to drop his
8:49name everywhere I go
8:50>> you know. Yeah. And so uh God bless him.
8:53He's he's a kind individual. So he's
8:55he's an equity owner of
8:56syndications.com. I call him my business
8:57partner. Uh and he wants nothing to do
8:59with it and probably nothing to do with
9:00me. He's just too nice to shake me.
9:03Perry Belch is also an equity owner and
9:05I partner with some guys that uh they do
9:08tokenization at the highest levels. And
9:10so my plan is I want to be the first
9:13major platform to tokenize real estate.
9:16And I right now have an attorney who is
9:21who has about 35 to 40 years working
9:24with the SC and we're going to the SEC
9:27specifically with our technology
9:29requesting a no action letter which is
9:31what you have to do if you're going to
9:33do something like this because the last
9:34thing I want
9:35>> creative.
9:36>> Yeah. Well and and the people that got
9:38creative get they get shut down quick
9:40and other folks have tried this
9:42>> and so I'm taking the long way. We've
9:43invested heavily in the infrastructure.
9:45It's a multi6figure build. It's not some
9:47vibe coded Uh so I have a
9:49technical infrastructure and it's built
9:51now. I could go live tomorrow. We have
9:53the technical infrastructure to tokenize
9:55real estate which is already exciting
9:56for me. And and uh the SEC, it's funny
10:00we're having this conversation right
10:01now, dude. 30 days ago published a white
10:04paper that basically said, "Okay, we're
10:06more receptive now to the tokenization
10:08of assets than we have been.
10:10>> Here's how to not screw up." and we're
10:12going to them with just the the approach
10:15that we'd like to take from a technical
10:16perspective. I'm doing my best, Richard,
10:18here. You know what I mean? To like say
10:20things without saying them. And my
10:21expectation and my attorney's
10:23expectation is that we get our no
10:25action. And and the SEC will never say
10:27stamp of approval.
10:28>> All they'll say is
10:30>> we're not going to sue you yet. You
10:32know, like nobody's going to try to
10:34throw you in prison yet or now. So
10:37that's the no action. Like at the moment
10:39based off of this, we we don't plan on
10:40taking action. And things can change,
10:42regime change, you know, congressional
10:44change, whatever. And this is the
10:45direction things have to go. Have to
10:47have to have to have to.
10:48>> So, I think I've got a reasonable chance
10:52at being the first or one of the first
10:55to tokenize real estate and and the way
10:58we're going to do it is really exciting.
11:00It's a it's a democratization of the
11:02process. So, uh I think that we can make
11:05real estate syndication far more
11:06accessible. Like right now it doesn't
11:07make sense to syndicate something sub.
11:09You know, I mean 10 mil is really like
11:11if you have a shopping center, an
11:12apartment building or whatever
11:14>> if it's I mean I've seen syndications
11:16for less than that. It tends to be a
11:17couple of buddies getting together. It's
11:18not really syndication.
11:20>> But you know it costs 50 grand just in
11:22like legal fees and paperwork to throw a
11:24syndication together. I I think we could
11:26automate that entire process and and
11:27make it some thousands of dollars. And
11:30what that means really is on a long
11:32enough timeline and you know, who knows
11:33if we get there before we're like
11:36acquired or merged or rolled up or
11:37whatever, but my goal would be to be
11:40able to syndicate single family homes. I
11:42want MPA Kettle from Sou Falls, South
11:46Dakota instead of being able to having
11:49to go to the bank who they're just the
11:51banks. Let's if we let's you know what I
11:53mean? godless, soulless, spineless,
11:55evil, satanic, horrific, like the worst
12:01group of humans in the world, obviously.
12:04And we've always known that, right? It's
12:06the bankers and the lawyers. I say this,
12:07my business mentor is a banker. He's my
12:09favorite human on the planet, and I love
12:10him to death. And he's a he's a genuine
12:12being. So, if somebody goes to a bank
12:14for work, I'm not telling you that those
12:16people are bad. I'm they're they're
12:17going to heaven and they love their
12:18kids, and you know, they're probably a
12:20deacon at their church, whatever. But
12:21I'm talking about the avatar. You know
12:23what I mean? Like the the disembodied
12:26>> the system.
12:27>> The system. Thank you. Is just the worst
12:29part of our of the fabric of society.
12:33Fiat currency all that garbage.
12:35>> Yeah. Yeah.
12:36>> Imagine for a moment, Richard, that mom
12:37pa kettle in Sou Falls, South Dakota,
12:39instead of having to go to a bank or
12:42credit union or whatever and beg pockets
12:44turned out, please. You know, Mach
12:46Kettle works at the post office
12:48part-time and P Kettle's been a
12:50journeyman carpenter his whole life. You
12:52and I could say, you know what, first of
12:55all, I'm only getting four points at my,
12:56you know, my on my CD. I'll take five
12:59and a half points
13:00>> to back that. Like, that makes all the
13:01sense in the world. I can lend debt. I
13:03can lend equity
13:04>> or excuse me, I can lend that. I can
13:05take equity. Mhm.
13:07>> And if you could send if you could do
13:08that, if you could pull that off, I
13:10think you open up what ends up being one
13:13of the largest secondary markets that
13:15could ever exist with the most potent
13:19form of currency because it's based on
13:21the most important asset. Um, so that's
13:23my sales pitch. Dude, if you're
13:24interested and you're listening to this,
13:25I have not pulled it off yet, but you
13:27can go to syndications.com now and sign
13:29up for the newsletter cuz when I when I
13:31want to hit go, I I'd love to have a
13:33list of people. And this is the first
13:35time I've ever talked about it. And I
13:36don't know if I've said anything. Yeah.
13:37Yeah. This is the first time I've ever
13:38said anything about this this endeavor
13:42uh on any podcast, period. So, my
13:43attorney might be like, "Dude, what did
13:45you do?"
13:46>> But I'm pretty sure I haven't said
13:47anything that that oversteps. So, we
13:49should be we should be good. But go to
13:51syndications.com, sign up for the
13:52newsletter when things are ready.
13:53[snorts] I need I need help, dude. I
13:55need I need help. I need support and I
13:56need help on every level of analysis. I
13:58need people who just want to invest and
14:00put in money. I need syndicators. I need
14:03syndicates. You know what I mean? Like I
14:05need every party and participant. And
14:07I'm also the dumbest human who's ever
14:09entered the real estate world. I know
14:11nothing. So I need strategic partners
14:13and vendors and and all those things.
14:15And so anybody who wants to play, you
14:17know, the the dream is big enough for
14:19the whole for everybody. So I don't know
14:21how well I'm doing there. And I also
14:23didn't mean to turn this into a soap
14:24box, man. I'm so sorry.
14:25>> No, no, dude. Actually, the worst is
14:26guests who don't turn it into a soap box
14:28because then I have to carry the entire
14:30show. That's incredibly frustrating. So
14:33couple angles that I want to take on
14:36that. I would say one, I know exactly
14:37what you're talking about about systems
14:39versus the people in them. Yeah. cuz my
14:41wife is don't worry it's not an
14:43emergency but navigating the US
14:45healthcare bureaucracy at this moment.
14:47>> Oh dude. Yeah.
14:48>> Yeah. And it's not not an emergency I
14:50should say like everybody's okay but
14:52nonetheless it's a health issue and
14:54she's she went to college here. I met
14:57her here and we lived overseas for a
14:58long time. So it's her first larges
15:00scale interaction with the healthcare
15:01system. And I just had to explain like
15:03well it's a giant bureaucracy. There's
15:05lots of incentives involved. It's a
15:07system designed to serve 330 million
15:09Americans and that that makes it so that
15:12like yes, you have to push super hard
15:13and you are not going to get your
15:15one-on-one care and that a lot of this
15:16falls on you and it sucks.
15:18>> Yeah.
15:19>> And I'm sorry and that that's just a
15:21commentary on your banking thing and
15:22like that's just what immediately came
15:23to mind. Second of all,
15:25>> it's the perfect analogy. It's the
15:27incentives are are all misaligned for
15:30everyone.
15:31>> Yeah, exactly. You can't solve for
15:33everybody.
15:34>> Yeah. It's it's it's horrible for
15:35everybody. The the doctors the incentive
15:38is to get us sick and keep us sick and
15:41>> or to serve as many patients and save
15:43money and conserve resources and and not
15:45do this and not do a test until it's
15:47well because what she figured out is
15:48that if she put the request for the test
15:50in writing in the portal,
15:52>> they would say yes because therefore if
15:54they didn't say if they said no and she
15:56had it, she could sue him. So she's
15:57essentially like like gaming that system
15:59where it's like, "Oh, I've created a
16:00liability service." and she figured that
16:02out on her own and I was like and she's
16:04just like I hate this so much.
16:06>> Yeah. Very smart lady obviously.
16:08>> Second of all, I wanted to go into the
16:10SEC thing. I applaud you for wanting to
16:12do this the correct way cuz I mean I'm
16:16okay. I definitely would not say I
16:17pushed the boundaries with the SEC
16:18because why would I ever say that on
16:19air? But you know like if you if you're
16:23trying to get anything interesting done
16:24in capital raising, which is an element
16:27of what you're trying to do, I would say
16:28overtly.
16:28>> Oh, that's the root of what we're trying
16:30to do, right?
16:30>> Yeah. Yeah. Like that's what you're
16:31trying to do is like doing almost if if
16:34you read the letter of the law like
16:36almost everything is illegal, right?
16:37Except
16:38>> it's funny you said that. My my partners
16:40in the tokenization space have have said
16:42something like it's technically
16:44impossible to be 100% compliant because
16:47eaten by geriatric morons 100 years
16:49before the internet existed and we've
16:50never changed it.
16:52>> Yeah. No. And that's why you get this
16:53this But I think the good news is and
16:56are you aware of the name of the new
16:58head of SEC enforcement by the way? No.
17:00>> And I'm gonna get blocked. And I'm not
17:02you. His name is David
17:04Woodcock. He's the new name of the SEC.
17:06Yeah. Great name.
17:08>> Yeah.
17:08>> Yeah. Like really great name. But he has
17:11I mean it's within this administration
17:13and I'll just say like let's isolate
17:14from the rest of the administration. And
17:16I'll just talk about this
17:17administration's priorities within the
17:19SEC are they want to clarify
17:22and they are pro business in terms of
17:25knowing that especially for small
17:27operators like enormous businesses have
17:29access to capital like everybody knows
17:31this right
17:31>> you know and in fact they have access to
17:33incredibly cheap capital and that
17:34however like who creates the most jobs
17:37small business you know where is all the
17:39dynamism small business and that like
17:42current securities laws are just not if
17:44you read the letter of the law what like
17:47mom and pop are going to go hire a
17:48broker dealer and get registered.
17:50>> Yeah.
17:51>> You know what I mean to like try and do
17:52this? It's impossible. And so their
17:55priorities are like clarify and actually
17:59focus on investor harm and you know as
18:02opposed to like letter what they call
18:04technical footballs and that's coming
18:06from the head of the SEC saying that
18:08we're not punishing technical footballs
18:09which I mean if you ask me that's
18:11incredibly strong language that's could
18:13be interpreted to say that
18:15>> permission over forgiveness.
18:17>> Yeah. Yeah.
18:18>> Permission. Yeah.
18:19>> Yeah. Or that like registration and
18:21doing all this other stuff. But I do
18:23want to applaud you for following that
18:24because there is another fairly
18:26high-profile startup around. I will not
18:28name them. Where the way that they are
18:30solving this is just like overtly
18:32breaking the law where they're just
18:33like, "It's a JV." And I'm like, "No,
18:35it's not a freaking JV. You know it's
18:36not. I know it's not. What are you
18:38talking about?
18:38>> It's all a definition of terms issue."
18:41And the problem with defining terms is
18:44the the courts do that for you.
18:47So, a lot of my my competitors or
18:49alternatives or whatever are banking on
18:52semantic defenses that will fall apart
18:55instantly.
18:56>> Yeah.
18:57>> Because we don't we don't get to define
18:59ter like that's not the way that you
19:01know what is it juristp prudence. I
19:03don't know.
19:04>> So, yeah, I appreciate that a lot. And
19:05it's honestly it's just because I'm
19:06terrified of all threeletter agencies.
19:08When I made my exit, dude, I made I paid
19:10a million dollars in taxes more than I
19:12needed to
19:13>> according to everybody that, you know,
19:15all these little experts that came out
19:17of the woodwork ask, you know, and it
19:19was because they had all these tricks
19:20and tips and like, oh, if you move this
19:22or this whole life insurance thing or
19:24this conservation easement and I was
19:27like, dude, I'm just going to pay the
19:28taxes because I just don't
19:30>> I can you for that.
19:31>> Yeah. I just don't want the IRS to come
19:33because they will. You know what I mean?
19:34They got they got everybody. They got
19:35Capone. I'm not any smarter than Capone.
19:37know that for a fact. Like, I'm just
19:40going to pay my taxes. And so, the same
19:41thing with the SEC. I'm like, I'm just
19:42going to pay my attorney his $1,200 an
19:45hour or whatever those guys cost. And,
19:47you know, we're going to go to the SEC
19:48and we're going to get our no action.
19:50>> Well, also because if you get like the
19:51way that this business works in capital
19:53raising, like you get one sanction, it's
19:54game over.
19:55>> Yeah.
19:55>> Like for life,
19:56>> forever essentially.
19:57>> Yeah.
19:58>> Yeah. And so, hold on. My wife
20:00apparently forgot her keys and I let her
20:03in the house. Sorry about that. I was
20:05like,
20:05>> "No, you're good to go." All right,
20:07back. Sorry.
20:08>> Hey, use that as an opportunity to do a
20:11quick task that was actually a little
20:13pressing. So, worked out.
20:14>> Productive.
20:15>> Very good. I commend you.
20:18>> Yeah. Um, so [clears throat] another
20:20thing that you mentioned in to change
20:22tracks a little bit in your onboarding
20:23forum for the show is that you ran one
20:25of the top real estate PPC campaigns. I
20:28did not know that.
20:29>> Yeah. I had the highest performing real
20:32estate investment campaign in the United
20:34States for seven years. Whoa.
20:36>> And I that's according to Investorfuse,
20:38which was a real estate investment CRM
20:40that all of the investors used. And so
20:42they had this data because they got I
20:44mean I beat Shawn Terry, Cody Sperber,
20:46Kent Clothe, like all the names. Sean,
20:49who I I have a lot of respect for all
20:50those guys, but Sean was paying $550 per
20:53lead in Phoenix and I was paying 80. Uh,
20:55and that that was I there wasn't a
20:57market, Richard, that I didn't win by a
20:59significant margin, just in the just in
21:01the cost per lead realm through Google
21:04specifically. And it was because I knew
21:07Google ads. And so it started I had a
21:09friend Greg Bilbro, brilliant, brilliant
21:11human being, one of the greatest sales
21:12guys I've ever known. He introduced me
21:14to fix and flip real estate.
21:16>> And we were just buddies. Greg just was
21:17just showing me what he was doing. And
21:19he was using door knockers, bandit
21:20signs, bird eyes.
21:22>> This was like property leads. Yeah,
21:24motivated seller leads is what we call
21:26them.
21:26>> Yeah.
21:27>> Sell my house fast for cash, right? All
21:29the home investors.
21:30>> So, Greg's doing all that and he's he's
21:32gened up these leads and I kept telling
21:34him, this was early early early Google
21:36Ads Days for me. We started in 2012 or
21:402011, which was the perfect time in the
21:43market to start.
21:44>> And so, I'm like, dude, I bet you Google
21:48Ads can be any one of, you know, door
21:50knockers, man, any one of these. And and
21:52he was he was great at it. He was a he
21:54was a an artist. The way this is bandit
21:57signs like he had split tested bandit
21:59signs. He knew that handwritten bandit
22:01signs outperform printed bandit signs
22:03and he knew to put them on an angle make
22:05it make it kind of look like a
22:06>> so you notice it. Yeah.
22:08>> Yeah. Well, not just that, but his
22:09theory was if people see a wellplaced,
22:12well sign, that's not a that's not a
22:15sucker selling a house, that's a that's
22:17a sophisticated seller. Nobody wants to
22:19buy.
22:19>> Dude, that's like when the HVAC guy
22:21shows up to your house with an iPad.
22:22You're like,
22:23>> "Yeah, you're like, "Oh, I'm about
22:24to pay three times what I should pay."
22:26Yeah. So, he was like, "If you're
22:28running around with bandit signs that
22:29look handwritten by somebody desperate,
22:31you're more likely to get somebody who's
22:33who thinks they're going to be able to
22:34take advantage of you." It's the whole
22:35you can't con an honest man.
22:37>> So, he knew all that. And I kept telling
22:40him like, "Dude, I think Google can beat
22:41it." So, he came he just came to me as a
22:43client. We spent $1,000 a month for
22:47seven months and got goose eggs.
22:51Nothing. leads were coming in, but they
22:52weren't closing. There were bad leads.
22:54They were the wrong whatever. And I I at
22:56five or six month, I was like, "Hey,
22:57man, I'm I'm wrong. I'm so sorry. Let's
23:00just pull the plug." And he he's a
23:02really bullish human. I really love the
23:04guy a lot. Uh and he's like, "No, no,
23:05no, keep at it. Keep at it. Keep at it."
23:07And month eight, we did a wholesale deal
23:10that made all of our money back plus a
23:12grand. And that's when both of he and I
23:14were like, "Oh this is there's a
23:15real there's meat on this bone." And so
23:17for the first year, I was just joining
23:19up leads for him. We we stopped being
23:22vendor client. We started being
23:23partners. I was 30. He was 70.
23:25>> And so I jenned up all the leads. He
23:28worked the deals. Uh we split the the
23:31costs 3072 in in you know direct
23:33proportion to our partnership. And so we
23:35were we were pouring all of our money
23:36into ad spend. And all the sudden one
23:40day I dude I just cracked the freaking
23:42code.
23:43>> And I and and it was really at the time
23:45it was Google was still allowing you
23:47search term manipulation. And so I
23:50learned granular things, Richard. Like
23:52for example, I learned that there was a
23:54massive difference between the quality
23:56of a lead if they used word house versus
23:58if they used the word home,
24:01>> right? A home. That's my home. But then
24:03my house is a four walls in a ceiling.
24:05Do get rid of it. So and and I mean that
24:07was one example of 150 little nuances
24:11that we were split testing and
24:12optimizing for. And I just got I and I
24:14got better and I got better and I got
24:15better. And it wasn't really me. It was
24:17a vendor that
24:18>> this was all search PBC.
24:19>> All Google ads. Yeah. All search PB.
24:21Exactly. Right. And a lot of these guys
24:24just they were just paying some agency
24:26to run their ads. And we were we were
24:27and and Greg is a is a math wiz. And so
24:30we just we started jetting up so many
24:32more leads than he could work. And that
24:34became a problem. And we actually tried
24:36we tried to build a sales team and that
24:38was hard. And uh and then I started
24:40generating leads from outside of my
24:43geography. And then we started to rank
24:44organically. And then it got it just got
24:46bigger and finally I was like, "Dude, we
24:47should just sell the leads. Like, let's
24:48just sell and work the leads." And we
24:50failed at that. We tried to sell the
24:51leads. And I'll tell you, real estate
24:52investors, they don't want to pay.
24:55They're all interesting. And so,
24:58>> oh, dude, they are like the worst people
24:59to negotiate with in the world.
25:01>> Like a fellow real estate guy, you're
25:03just like, "My god.
25:04>> Oh my god." Yeah. And it's like they're
25:06so shortsighted because I'm like, "Dude,
25:07you're if you like if you take advantage
25:09of me to this degree, I'm not going to
25:11be in business next month and I'm I'm
25:12the golden goose right
25:14I'm just going to do this for you as
25:15long as I have to and then I'm out.
25:17>> And well, that's actually what happened.
25:19So, when we were trying to sell per
25:20lead, and what investors kept doing is
25:22they fought us on every lead that didn't
25:23close. And I'm like, dude, I'm not
25:25selling you per deal. I'm selling you
25:27per lead. If there's a human being on
25:28the other end of the phone with the
25:29house, that's a lead. And so, we kept
25:31having that argument. I kept having that
25:32conversation. And our leads were so much
25:34cheaper than everybody else's leads,
25:35which was pissing me off. So, we finally
25:37said, "You know what? Screw this." It
25:38was Greg's idea. It was brilliant. We
25:41offer geographic exclusivity.
25:44>> So we were like, we're only going to
25:45take one. First of all, I have the
25:46highest model.
25:47>> Yeah, exactly. I have the highest
25:49performing campaign in Atlanta. I'll
25:50show you my numbers. I'm going to sell
25:52Atlanta to one guy. Our Atlanta guy was
25:54Anthony Eps. Brilliant, brilliant,
25:55brilliant real estate guy. Loved him a
25:56lot. But what we did was we sold every
25:59geography cheap for the first year. So
26:01you could buy and in Atlanta, it's all
26:03you can eat, dude. Give me five grand a
26:04month or 10 grand a month or 50 grand a
26:06month, whatever the whatever the market
26:07allowed for. Some geographies are more
26:09expensive than others, right? El Paso is
26:11going to be cheaper than San Francisco.
26:12So, we would go and and we we ended up
26:14partnering with InvestorFuse, which was
26:15really really helpful. That's how we
26:16found most of our clients because they
26:17were all using that CRM at the time. It
26:19was a Podio modification basically.
26:22>> And so, we sold the geographies cheap
26:24the first year. And so, our first year
26:26was pretty lean. They paid us the fee
26:28and then they paid all the ad spend. And
26:31our second year,
26:32>> did you get their data on the back end
26:33of like knowing if they were actually
26:35closing?
26:35>> Well, here's the thing that we did that
26:36was smart. If if you don't, and Greg
26:38insisted on this, too. He's he's a
26:39really brilliant entrepreneur. If you
26:41don't follow your leads, if you don't
26:42follow up, if you don't call them, we
26:43had a fiveminute rule. If you're not on
26:45your leads within five minutes, we fire
26:46you as a client. We go to our next
26:47client.
26:48>> Wow.
26:48>> Because we realized that if you screw up
26:51our data, you also screw up our
26:53optimization.
26:54>> Well, that's the classic problem with
26:55selling leads is that like people can't
26:56close and can't sell.
26:57>> That's exactly right.
26:59>> Well, it's actually also like a classic
27:01marketing agency problem. Yeah. You
27:02know, like, oh, I got you all these
27:04leads. You don't call them,
27:05>> right? We we kept ourselves basically
27:07working with just the best of the best
27:09of the best. Year one was lean, but what
27:11happened and and and none of the real
27:14none of the real estate investors wanted
27:15to sign for more than a year agreement
27:16obviously, but after year one, we got to
27:19go to every so you're Anthony apps in
27:21Atlanta and I get to go to everybody in
27:22Atlanta and be like, "Hey, look at
27:23Anony's numbers." Greg called it the
27:24golden ratio. He put in $1, he got $6
27:26out. We can prove it. These are the
27:28leads. This is the cost. This is
27:29whatever. And then we let them bid on
27:30the geography. And people were pissed.
27:33They're like, "What are you doing? Why?"
27:34And I'm like, "No, no, no, no. We tried
27:36playing the other way where it was in
27:37Zaggress. You don't want to play that
27:38way." And so we let people bid on geos.
27:41And the thing that happened that blew my
27:43mind, and this was really interesting,
27:45we had investors buy geographies from us
27:48to close them down. They didn't want us
27:52bidding in that geography because our
27:54search campaigns were eating because
27:55they were spending all this money on
27:56radio, television, newspaper, and we're
27:58going to Google and just skimming off
28:01the top.
28:02or the bottom of the funnel, skimming
28:03off the bottom.
28:04>> Yeah, that's exactly that's the way to
28:05phrase it. Yeah. So, they they're
28:06spending a billion dollars generating
28:08all this awareness and we're eating all
28:09of their
28:10>> demand. So, they were like, "What do we
28:12have to do to get you out of my city
28:14basically?" And so, they'd buy the
28:16geography to keep us out, which ended up
28:18not being good for us because then we
28:19weren't able to juice the campaigns. The
28:21thing that I did that was really smart,
28:22and I never would have admitted this at
28:24the time, but this was secret sauce.
28:26Every other Google Ads agency was
28:27running all of their clients in
28:29independent campaigns and independent
28:30accounts. So your your Atlanta client
28:33would be one campaign, your San Antonio
28:35client would be I had we had them all in
28:37one
28:38>> and we proxied the leads using a a lead
28:40routing service like Bobber do. We used
28:42something different. It was proprietary
28:43to us.
28:44>> So that like pumped up your quality
28:46score and matching.
28:46>> That's exactly what happened. Every all
28:48rising tides. Yeah. So and our ad spend
28:52was higher than anybody else's could
28:53compete with. And we got the you know we
28:55reached critical mass from a data
28:56perspective. We got the optimization. We
28:57got the data blah blah blah. So we ended
28:59up having the highest quality leads at
29:01the lowest cost and I dude I had that
29:02for seven years. So my first real shot
29:05in the pocket like the first real money
29:07I made I paid off my house. I paid off
29:08all my debt. I was hor I was multi6
29:11figures in debt. I it everything dude my
29:13entrepreneurial life has been
29:14interesting but [snorts] my first real
29:16round of money was geoflip is what we
29:19called it. The business still exists.
29:20Greg ended up so 2019 rolls around.
29:23We're seven years into this and all of a
29:25sudden the campaigns start to slow and
29:28and I told him I was like, "Dude, the
29:31only tool on my tool pelt is Google Ads.
29:33That's all I've got."
29:34>> And Google Ads is a demand genen
29:37platform. It's based in a in a buyer
29:40market. It's going to work for us. In a
29:41sellers market, it's going to flip.
29:43>> And he had an entirely different thesis.
29:45And so I sold him the business in 2019
29:48and he still runs it. And I I don't know
29:50every tool in his tool belt now. I'm
29:51pretty sure he's diversified far beyond
29:52Google ads. But you can go to Geof Flip,
29:54you can look up Greg Bilbro, super good
29:56dude, wildly integrous, and they're
29:59still doing it. But I I was in business
30:00with him for seven years. And for seven
30:02years, we were minting money. And then I
30:04sold, jump ship, took the money that I
30:06made and, you know, diversified and did
30:08other things.
30:09>> So you've actually been in real estate a
30:10long time, it sounds like.
30:12>> Kind of. You know, it's funny, dude. I I
30:13mean, I never once went into a house,
30:16you know. I was on the back end. So for
30:18me, it was I mean, Google Ads is Google
30:19Ads. You could have been a dentist and
30:20it's the same It's split testing
30:23and and ad copy and hooks and, you know,
30:26optimization. So, it was all, you know,
30:28was I'm pretty solution agnostic in that
30:30way. But, yeah, the real estate piece
30:32has always been something I've been
30:33close to. And I I've got I'm a
30:35libertarian that hates other
30:36libertarians. And so, I have a a
30:38visceral response to fiat currency, a
30:40love for, you know, anything commodity
30:42backed. And real estate sits at the
30:44center of all of those things. And so
30:45just philosophically that's been you
30:48know it it draws me in regularly because
30:51of what it is and what it represents.
30:53There's something to
30:55>> human sovereignty
30:57begins with a place to stand.
30:59>> Oh dude 100%. I actually one of the
31:02reasons I so I owned a service business
31:04previously and actually my ROI on Google
31:06ads is enormous because I got like one
31:08client that did two million bucks you
31:10know and I was advertising in Hong Kong
31:11so it was spending almost nothing and
31:13you know I got that one $2 million
31:14client and I'm like yeah
31:16>> done yeah
31:19>> but the reason that I wanted to get into
31:21real estate is that I've like done
31:23business around the world and that every
31:25culture desires land.
31:27>> Yeah. and that people are very different
31:29in like I've done a lot of business in
31:30Eastern Europe and a lot of business in
31:32Asia and like for example my wife when
31:34we were starting to make good business
31:35good money on our last business I was
31:37like hey we buy stocks that's what you
31:39do and my wife of course comes from a
31:41country with no capital markets and
31:42she's like that's all fake no
31:44>> land yeah
31:44>> yeah and then as soon as I was like this
31:46is how you manipulate an Eastern
31:48European woman I was like I had a dream
31:49where we bought a rental property and it
31:51went really well and my wife was like
31:52I'm in
31:54>> that's so funny
31:56>> and that Like what got me to like get
32:00into this business, like I said, is that
32:02there is clearly like a human biological
32:04desire to control land.
32:06>> Yeah. Well, even what you said in the
32:09beginning, I I think was really
32:10profound. Every culture desires land.
32:12Here's what's interesting about that.
32:14>> You can't have a culture until you have
32:17>> a land mass. The the the the what would
32:19you call it? It's like the perimeter
32:21around which you would establish said
32:24culture. So it's it's almost a
32:26survivorship bias like no culture or
32:29country or language or people or
32:30religion exists outside of
32:34>> Well, and also like you can even go like
32:36lower in the stack beyond humans. Like
32:38they've got like waring tribes of
32:40chimpanzees in the Congo last year.
32:42>> Yeah.
32:42>> Right.
32:43>> You know, and then like two ant colonies
32:45get too close to each other and then
32:46they like wipe each other out and you're
32:48just like, man, like
32:49>> I want to sell a product where the
32:51demand is already there.
32:52>> Yeah. It's a biological imperative,
32:53dude. 100%.
32:55>> Yeah.
32:55>> And that like you don't have that demand
32:57genen problem in real estate where it's
32:59just cuz like everybody already wants
33:00it. Like you don't have to prove
33:02convince someone that they want to buy
33:04land. They want to buy land. Now that
33:06said, the the difficult part is that it
33:08once you actually get into selling
33:10investments that is incredibly
33:13competitive, incredibly competitive
33:15because there are many many many firms
33:16that are like competing for investor
33:18capital and everything like that. And
33:20so, have you ever worked on anything
33:23like around capital raising
33:25>> poorly? And and only on
33:28>> It's hard. I was going to say that.
33:29>> Yeah. If Yeah. Here's the thing,
33:30Richard. I I actually I can make you and
33:32all your listeners a billion dollars
33:33guaranteed. This is 100% validated and
33:35guaranteed.
33:36>> It's never not proven true. Okay.
33:38Statistically,
33:40>> here's what you do. You short any stock.
33:44It does not matter the stock.
33:45>> You short any stock. Doesn't matter. And
33:49then you tell me what that stock is and
33:51I buy it
33:52>> and God will see that I've bought that
33:54stock and it will instantly plummet.
33:56It's it's 100% proven statistic
34:00statistical modeling retroactively for
34:02my entire life.
34:03>> It's a 100% back tested strategy.
34:05>> 100% back tested. Just buy any just
34:07short any stock and when I buy it
34:09>> and God sees that I own that stock,
34:11>> it will I'm the I my thesis has been buy
34:14high and so low. Mhm.
34:16>> And so, yeah, I've I've been on the the
34:18the attempted end at putting deals
34:22together. And I'll tell you what my
34:24problem is, dude. I I really believe
34:25this.
34:26>> I have this horribly
34:28childish belief that I can outsmart the
34:30market.
34:31>> It's hard to
34:32>> and I always have and and I and and
34:35here's the thing is I've done it like I
34:36did it in Google Ads. There's there's
34:38with with mechanisms like that, smaller
34:40mechanisms that are less dynamic and
34:42more contained, there are tips and
34:44tricks and things that you you know that
34:45this lever, this knob, the economy is
34:48just too freaking dynamic. So, it's not
34:50that other pe other people can do it,
34:52but they're all like Goldman Sachs, Ivy
34:53League, super geniuses. I am incapable
34:56of outsmarting the market, but I still
34:58convince myself that I can. And so when
35:01I've attempted to do fundraises or
35:02attempted
35:03>> well I would argue that that's actually
35:04one of my big angles when selling
35:06private real estate to be honest is that
35:08like and it's very tough for me to admit
35:10this publicly but a major angle is
35:12people think that they're very smart and
35:13they're very proud of themselves for
35:14making an investment.
35:16>> Yeah.
35:16>> And they're trying to feel sophisticated
35:18and that they are getting like a major
35:20emotional
35:22>> like thing out of it and that is very
35:24ego-driven. making any private
35:26investment is incredibly ego-driven and
35:28then they justify it with your financial
35:30model.
35:30>> 100%. Yeah, that's what angel investing
35:33is is just people running around
35:34throwing their weight around, you know,
35:35like I guess I'll give you
35:37>> Yeah, I did that. Yeah.
35:39>> Yeah. So, anyway, yeah, I've done it and
35:41I've done it horribly and don't follow
35:42me into the markets and don't take my
35:44investment advice and you know, I'm I
35:46dude, I'm rich because I'm lucky. I've
35:47been right place, right time a couple of
35:50times. You know what I mean? And I'm
35:51just like, thank God. And I guess to my
35:54credit and maybe to be a little less
35:56selfd deprecatory, is that a word I just
35:58invented?
35:59>> Self-depreciating.
36:00>> Thank you. Self appreciating.
36:02>> Sounds right.
36:03>> Yeah, sure sounds better than me. I just
36:05stuck it out, dude. I just, you know,
36:07like I just stayed out in the rain. And
36:08I think that that's about all it takes.
36:10It's like I just kept going and going
36:11and going and going and then every dog
36:13has his day, you know, and I've had a
36:15couple of them. So that's, you know,
36:17that's my my secret to success is just
36:19be obstinate mules. I I think there's a
36:23slightly I would only give you a little
36:25more credit than that and of course I
36:26don't know your story deeply, but I I
36:28clearly feel the same way that there's a
36:30lot of luck and a lot of being in the
36:33one room in the one city and then $20
36:35million client kind of thing and you're
36:37just like damn like you know and then
36:39like made my whole career right like
36:41everything I have today is one client
36:42and
36:44>> however
36:45I think what is in people's control is
36:48giving yourself quality at bats
36:50>> you can generate more chances. Like I
36:53think that is totally within your
36:54control
36:55>> and that everyone I see who is like very
36:57actively putting that to sound weird but
37:00like putting that energy into the world
37:02where they are like trying very hard and
37:03trying a lot of things and trying to
37:05generate a lot of bad bats that's the
37:08majority of the people that I know
37:10typically like a fat pitch finally comes
37:12along and they have their eye on it and
37:13then they hit it.
37:14>> Yeah.
37:14>> But there is
37:16>> there's a lot of people who simply do
37:17not take those at bats like
37:20>> Yeah. There's a devastating type of
37:23person in the in the in the atbat ven
37:25diagram. There's the people that will
37:27never take at bats, right? That's your
37:29traditional 9 to5 or I'm gonna be just
37:31safe and whatever. And then there's the
37:33people that
37:33>> I have to form an LLC.
37:35>> That's the best one. I haven't formed my
37:36LLC yet.
37:37>> Well, so that's actually the devastating
37:39group that I'm talking about. There's
37:40the people that never will.
37:41>> That's they're on the far end of the
37:43spectrum. There's the people that just
37:44can't stop swinging probably to their
37:46detriment. And in the middle is a person
37:49who thinks they're swinging and they're
37:52doing what you're saying. They're
37:53they're watching all of Alex Ramos's
37:55videos, reading all of Steen Cubby's
37:57books, taking all these courses, and
38:00there there's this mental masturbation,
38:02spinning tires, and they think that
38:05they're doing
38:05>> that the content consumption being equal
38:08to action thing. Yeah. Yeah. Of course.
38:09>> Yeah. Yeah. there's just this perpetual
38:11learner
38:12>> and I and I dude I find a lot of them or
38:14a lot of them find me through my content
38:16and it's funny because I I watch them
38:18and I and I and I I I have a heart for
38:20them dude I love them and I want them to
38:21succeed
38:22>> and it's like when you look at them long
38:24enough you're like oh you don't ship
38:26>> you don't ship print push swing you
38:29don't so and but they if you were to ask
38:31them how long have you been at it they'
38:32be like oh three years or 30 years and
38:35it's like well show me one website
38:38that's gone live one offer that you've
38:39someone. Yeah. When's the last time you
38:41like asked for money?
38:42>> Yeah. And they never have.
38:44>> And and it's just this it's just this
38:46devastating no man's land. And so again,
38:48if you're listening to this,
38:49>> go
38:51like I like what you said. When's the
38:52last time you pitched somebody? Go ask.
38:54Go do something. Go verb. You know what
38:58I mean? Go do a verb.
38:59>> And and I promise you, you do it a 100
39:03times and one of them just on accident
39:05will actually hit. You know, when
39:07>> a lot of people say yes. The thing is if
39:09you have like a pitch,
39:11>> even poor offers get takers.
39:13>> Yeah.
39:14>> Well, you see that at the bar, you know,
39:16like all of us. I Dude, I'm so I have I
39:18I you know, thank God I I've found the
39:20love of my life and I never have to
39:21attempt this again. But as a young man,
39:24>> I was so horrified of the cold approach.
39:27>> Yeah. Yeah.
39:27>> And I could not for the life of me walk
39:30up to a girl and open a at all. I had to
39:32be, you know, in school with her or at
39:34work with her or, you know, if you gave
39:36me a couple of weeks, I' I'd find a way
39:38to just casually find, you know, but
39:40there's the cold approach was absolutely
39:41impossible to me. And [snorts] I would
39:43sit there and I'd watch these guys that
39:45were just,
39:46>> you know, like not admirable humans, but
39:48it was just one after the other after
39:50the other after the other after
39:52somebody's gonna say yes. And you'd be
39:53like, "Holy how did you do that?"
39:55You know, and yeah, I think it's true
39:56for all things in life.
39:58>> Yeah. Yeah. I think that I'm very lucky
40:02that I started my first business pretty
40:05early and I I won't share the story on
40:06here because it's like pretty
40:08embarrassing, but I was in a place of
40:09desperation. I'll put it that way. Where
40:11I was like, I need to find a client that
40:14doesn't involve me going to work.
40:16>> Yeah.
40:17>> And that like showed up, pitched a guy,
40:20and he signed a $2,000 a month contract
40:22>> and I was a college student. You know
40:24what I mean? And then from then on, I
40:26was like, a lot of people don't realize
40:28that that is the definition of starting
40:30a business.
40:31>> It's like the business has now started.
40:33>> Yeah.
40:33>> And that all it required was like
40:35getting someone to say yes and taking
40:36payment. Like
40:37>> Yeah. Your domain name's worthless. The
40:39website doesn't matter. Writing the
40:41content. The amount of that people
40:42spend time pretending they're doing when
40:44they start their business blows my mind.
40:46>> No, it's like just go cash a check.
40:48>> Go sell something.
40:49>> And I tell I call them the zero to ones.
40:51My my heart is most potent for the zero
40:54to ones. It's the people that need to go
40:55from zero to a dollar, right? Like, and
40:58I'm not talking about Peter Teal 0 to1.
41:00That's a wholly different flow.
41:00>> I actually have a signed copy of that
41:02book, by the way.
41:02>> I do really.
41:03>> No. Go on.
41:04>> Yeah. It's one of my favorites. It's one
41:05of the best. But, but different
41:06paradigm. 0ero to1 for me is if you've
41:09not sold anything, you just need to go
41:12sell a dollar. And I don't care what it
41:13is. Go. And when I tell everybody, and I
41:15swear to God, I mean this, this is not
41:17me exaggerating or sock puppeting the
41:19argument. If you want to start a
41:21business, stop obsessing over the idea,
41:23the model, the offer, any of that stuff.
41:25Go to Home Depot and spend 50 bucks. And
41:28everybody's got or can find $50. Go to
41:30Home Depot and buy yourself a bucket and
41:32one of the little squeegees and some
41:33soap and you are now you have a window
41:35washing business. Swear to God, I'm not
41:37kidding. Cuz here's what's going to
41:38happen. True.
41:38>> First of all, your first business is
41:40going to fail 100% of the time
41:42statistically no matter what.
41:43Everybody's first business fails.
41:45>> But at least now, and you said this
41:46earlier, you're like, I want a business
41:48where there's demand. There's not a city
41:49in the world that doesn't have buildings
41:52with dirty windows.
41:53>> Dirty windows. Yes.
41:54>> So, you're just going to go door knock
41:55and you're gonna wash windows and you're
41:57gonna learn everything there is to learn
41:59about entrepreneurism, market demand,
42:01how to take money cuz somebody's going
42:03to say, "Here's taxes, invoices,
42:05accounting,
42:05>> merchant processing, banking."
42:07Somebody's going to say this. You're
42:08going to be like, "Oh
42:09>> what do I do now?" And they're going to
42:10be like, "Do you take credit card?" And
42:11you're like,
42:12>> "I I got to go figure out find out like
42:15>> Yeah. No, here's what's going to happen.
42:16You're not going to make money washing
42:18windows or a lot of it. You're going to
42:19make some. You're going to go zero to
42:20one.
42:21>> Yeah.
42:21>> You're going to you're going to pay your
42:22bills. Maybe you're going to eat, maybe,
42:24but you're going to keep knocking doors
42:26if you're persistent. And what you're
42:28going to find is this. You're going to
42:29knock on these doors of all these office
42:31buildings or medical supply buildings or
42:32whatever. And you're going to you're
42:34going to you're going to think to
42:35yourself, you know what? Every
42:36receptionist in every office I've been
42:39in is either overwhelmed, busy, on the
42:41phone, or not even present. All of these
42:43folks could really use a virtual like
42:46what if I had an iPad app where you walk
42:48in and there's an IP or I or who knows
42:51what it's called the corridor principle.
42:52You're never going to identify the real
42:54opportunity until you're in the
42:56corridor.
42:57>> So now your window washing business
42:58which is a horrible non-scalable
43:00>> because you don't even know how to
43:01identify opportunities. It's impossible.
43:02Yeah.
43:03>> Yeah. Yeah. So, and now you're in the
43:05virtual reception business or I don't
43:07know what you might be like, gosh,
43:08everybody's lobby is the carpet's dirty
43:10or everybody needs better lobby
43:11furniture or who knows what. Every
43:13business I've ever started has been
43:16birthed from a defunct. I you know, it's
43:18so funny. My my talent agency.
43:19>> Same here. I know exact I'm on my like
43:21third major one and I'm just like, yep,
43:23yep.
43:23>> It always starts It's Dude, the the soil
43:25of a of a good business is failure. It's
43:28another failed business.
43:29>> So, I own an agent. We just passed 102
43:32placed right hands. I I place the top
43:34talent in the world. Takes a thousand
43:36applicants to produce just one. I'm so
43:38proud of this business. It's the most
43:39fulfilling thing I've ever done. We take
43:40people in emerging nations. We help them
43:42find meaningful work. We place them for
43:43overwhelmed entrepreneurs. It's like a
43:44business partner for hire.
43:46>> Mhm.
43:46>> It's called PTO Talent. I'd love to work
43:47with anybody that wants a right hand.
43:49What's funny about it is we just have
43:51passed $3.5 million gross revenue. It's
43:53a great little business. It it came
43:56because me and my business partner were
43:58trying to start a marketing agency for
44:00mobile home and self- storage
44:02facilities.
44:02>> Oh, no way.
44:04>> Yeah. Which I have a whole little pocket
44:05there that I can tell you about if you
44:06have any interest.
44:07>> And we just failed miserably. We tried
44:10to build the tech stack and the SAS and
44:12I partnered with Mike Wagner, who's a
44:13great big name in the self- storage
44:15business. And and I and we just it we it
44:18just beat our heads against the wall,
44:19failing miserably every step of the way.
44:21But out of that came this because
44:23everybody kept asking us how do you find
44:25these people that we we were finding
44:26people for the marketing agency and
44:27we're like well that's that's table
44:29stakes dude that's what I do is I find
44:30talent and so here comes my talent
44:33agency and everybody can do that but
44:34just go get on the field you know what I
44:37mean get on the field and you're going
44:38to do it poorly and it's going to suck
44:40and you're going to fail but then from
44:42that because you can mitigate your
44:44downside risk it's 50 bucks at Home
44:45Depot and but then from that you find
44:48your $2 million client who says yes to
44:50something you're like oh god I can't
44:51believe You said yes to that and then
44:52you go figure that out.
44:52>> Yeah.
44:53>> Well, and and the best part is I was
44:55like, "Why did you hire me?" And it was
44:56because I had like paid for an award on
44:58the site. You know how that goes. And
44:59he's like, "Oh, yeah. You won the best
45:01IT company in Hong Kong." And I'm like,
45:02"That's right. I did."
45:03>> That's you're damn right. [laughter]
45:05>> Yeah. Yeah. Like,
45:06>> but it I mean something I was going to
45:09say is that I'm so lucky that I did that
45:11in college because if you've never
45:13collected that first dollar,
45:16>> dudes are
45:16>> and you don't understand how simple it
45:18is and that like well and that it's
45:20possible. Like you just keep pitching,
45:21you're going to find it, you're going to
45:22get a yes and that that's really all
45:23that takes is like continuing to close
45:25clients faster than you turn them and
45:27then eventually you stop turning them.
45:29>> You know what I mean?
45:30>> Yeah. And it's, you know, who learns
45:32this lesson the most. This is going to
45:34get real racist real quick, but we're
45:35going to see how effectively I get
45:36myself canceled. I have a strong
45:38affinity for Mormon kids.
45:40>> Okay.
45:41>> My my favorite group of
45:42>> I'm a big respector of the Mormons.
45:44>> I I dude I'm I I live in Arizona.
45:46There's a huge Mormon community.
45:48>> You know, if you're just judging a
45:49culture by its output, I think the
45:51Mormons win.
45:52>> Oh, dude. Big time.
45:53>> Just good folks. You don't to stereotype
45:55a whole
45:56>> Yeah. Yeah. to paint with an incredibly
45:57broad brush.
45:58>> To paint with an incredibly broad brush.
45:59Like if you're if if I had nothing else
46:01to go on and you're like, "Hey, who do
46:02you want to sit next to at dinner? A
46:04random human or a Mormon?" I'm like,
46:05"Bring me the Mormon."
46:06>> That's that's why Russell Brunson to
46:07name another marketing guy. He's always
46:08like he puts the Mormonism like right
46:10out of front because you're just like,
46:11"I trust that guy."
46:12>> Yeah.
46:13>> All other things being equal, that's for
46:15me it means something, you know? Like
46:17I'm not I'm not going to comment on the
46:18dogmatism because I don't know anything
46:19about it, but the output does seem to be
46:22pretty effective. Here's what's
46:24interesting about Mormon kids, and the
46:25reason I love hiring them, especially
46:26for sales roles, is you take a human
46:28being at the most potent point in life.
46:31At 18 years old, dude, you've never been
46:33full of more piss and vinegar. You've
46:35never wanted to go and screw up more
46:36than than it's the most important epoch.
46:39And you you not force them, I shouldn't
46:41say that because they volunteer, let's
46:42say, but you put them in a position
46:44where they have to donate, dedicate this
46:46time to a a sub superordinate principle,
46:50let's say, which for them is God. and
46:53spend two years knocking doors selling
46:56the hardest thing any human has ever
46:58sold.
46:59>> Right? Like I'm I'm in my own way. I
47:02have theological commitments. I believe
47:04in God if we're allowed to define God as
47:05something ineffable and ethereal and
47:08ephemeral
47:09>> and it's still the hardest cell a
47:11human's ever made. So these kids just go
47:13and and they're on their little tent
47:14speeds with their super creased pants
47:16and they run around knocking doors
47:17>> name tags.
47:19>> Yeah. With name tag for two years. you,
47:21bro. There's not a there's not a more
47:23bulletproof human on the planet two
47:25years later. They're fearless because
47:28they there's nothing worse than that is,
47:30you know, going to Honduras and selling
47:32a bunch of Hondurans in Invisible Man in
47:34the Sky. And now I'm like, "Hey, I
47:36actually have a high ticket offer that
47:37makes a lot of sense and would make
47:38people a lot of money." They're like,
47:39"Oh, they freaking crushed that shit."
47:40The only the the second the very very
47:42very very very far second is anybody
47:45that's been in Cutco longer than a year.
47:47They call them the Cutco Mafia, and it's
47:49the same thing. They've just survived
47:51this this freaking horrible meat
47:54grinder. Yeah.
47:55>> And they come out the other end just
47:56fearless and bulletproof. Man, I love
47:58them a lot. So, if there's a way for you
48:00to artificially inseminate that
48:02experience for yourself, go do that.
48:04>> Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I think that
48:06that's usually the main thing when I'
48:08I've met Okay. So, there was a a
48:12colleague or let's just say like a
48:13friend of mine that I had back in the
48:14day and she's a very smart lady. She
48:16worked at Standard Empors as like an
48:18executive. So, this is a very smart,
48:19capable person and that she wanted to do
48:22like selling Turkish delights because
48:24she was from a Turkish family. And I was
48:26like, they're like, "Oh, I got to do all
48:27these things." I was like, "No, you
48:28don't. You just got to like sell one
48:30like like they're like, we got to do
48:32this and this and this." And I'm like,
48:33"No, you don't."
48:34>> Yeah. Dude, it's funny. I I had the a
48:36very similar experience within uh and I
48:38won't I'll veil their identity so I
48:40don't piss them off and I doubt they'll
48:41ever listen to me but somebody very
48:43close to me who I've known my entire
48:45life brilliant human quite literal Ivy
48:48League education fortune 100
48:52you know call him a C-level type
48:54>> couldn't be smarter couldn't be more
48:56successful has entered a new phase in
48:58life and came to me which was really
49:01interesting because this is a person
49:02I've come to my entire life for advice
49:03and guidance Mhm.
49:05>> But they're, you know, corporate and
49:06have been their whole life and I'm
49:07entrepreneurial. So came to me and said,
49:08"Hey, you know, I'm interested in new
49:10phase entrepreneurship." And put this
49:13plan in front of me. The type of thing
49:14of a Fortune 100 Calele exec would do.
49:17>> And I was like, "Bro, don't do any of
49:19that Like I don't even know what
49:20this is." You know, this is such
49:21buzzword gobbly goop corporate speak
49:24like
49:24>> you what? And and they had the the the
49:27the entity creation was months long. And
49:30like, bro, that is a day on business
49:32rocket, you know? like you don't need to
49:34do any of this
49:35>> and that's easy. That's just cuz you
49:36don't know how to log into the Secretary
49:37of State website. It's like 10
49:38[laughter] minutes if you know what
49:40you're doing.
49:41>> Like I was like, bro, you just need to
49:43go just sell some and the thing
49:45that you think you're going to sell cuz
49:47and they wanted to do like, you know, of
49:48course they needed to copyright their
49:50trade name and patent this process. And
49:53I'm like,
49:54>> you're not going to be in this business
49:55in six months. I promise you. Like, go
49:58just start smacking some balls. And you
50:00know the thing, to their credit, it was
50:01very wellreceived. They're like, "Okay,
50:04because you know, I mean,
50:05>> your commentary, I thought you were
50:06going to say the idea worked." And I was
50:07like, "What?"
50:08>> No, no, no, no. They were like, "All
50:09right, makes a lot of sense." Like, go
50:11out and Yeah. And and Yeah. So, anyway,
50:15it's just a different way of doing
50:16things, dude. That's the That's the
50:18thing that's really interesting about
50:18entrepreneurs. I'm going to take the
50:20long way and you can tell me how I do
50:21here, Richard. Okay,
50:22>> go for it.
50:23>> I was listening to Jaco Willink talk
50:25>> and he
50:27>> I love him. He's amazing.
50:29Jaco was talking about Navy Seals and he
50:31goes, "Everybody has this image of
50:34Captain America, cleancut, very
50:38well-dressed, very, you know, helps old
50:40ladies across the street." And they're
50:42like, "That's what they think a Navy
50:43Seal is." And he goes, "They, it's the
50:45furthest thing from the truth." A Navy
50:47Seal is a cod
50:50convict in any other life path. Yeah,
50:54>> they're horrible addiction, horrible
50:56temper, going to go to prison. They're a
51:00Viking raiding party. They're they're
51:02>> they're just in a permission structure
51:04to do violence.
51:05>> Yes. This is This is not a human that is
51:08in full control of all their capacities.
51:10And and the way he described it, you're
51:12like, "Oh, that's actually really scary
51:13that they exist." And it is. He's like,
51:14"We take the most."
51:17>> Yeah, that's what he said. He goes,
51:18"You're lucky they're on your side."
51:20>> Yeah. because if they weren't, they're
51:22going to annihilate everything in front
51:24of them. And he didn't they're just, you
51:26know, these roided out pitbulls that can
51:29can barely be contained. And that's in
51:32the way he described it. You got to find
51:33the episode because it was so good. He's
51:34like, they we've barely got them on on,
51:38you know, when in our structures. So
51:40anyway, that's the difference. Everybody
51:42thinks Captain America roided out
51:44pitbull. Entrepreneurship is the same
51:46way. People think about, you know, you
51:48read like J. Abraham, who I think is so
51:51full of just so you know. I'm so
51:53sorry to talk. I And I But you just you
51:55read these books, I don't think Jay's
51:57ever actually really started a real
51:58business in his life. I could be wrong.
51:59Who knows? Somebody come correct me. But
52:02when I read what he says, I'm like,
52:03that's not an like you you you picture
52:05the captain. He he writes the book of
52:06the Captain America entrepreneur, which
52:08is like structured business plan, and
52:10it's the opposite, dude. Entrepreneurs
52:12are the Navy Seals of the business
52:14world. Well, because the guy that you're
52:15describing needs too much of a
52:17permission structure to like go and take
52:19the risk and like just go do it.
52:20>> There's there's all these rules and
52:22there's these these rubrics and these
52:24frameworks and these books and it's like
52:25it's none of that. It's go just try.
52:28It's and and when you see the really
52:30successful entrepreneurs and I think you
52:32and I might be good examples if I can
52:34sit here like neither of us look like
52:35men with a plan. My dad keeps telling me
52:38I don't have a college degree. Like when
52:39you were talking about your speech at
52:40the beginning and I have such a chip on
52:42my shoulder and that is like my fuel
52:44where I'm like I'm going to make a
52:45billion dollars because I'm mad about
52:46high school. Like I got a 10th grade
52:48education. Yeah. My my dad told me after
52:50I made my second exit, he goes he was
52:52just looking at me and this wasn't a
52:54compliment. He was looking at me with
52:55disgust. He goes, "You know, the more
52:57money you make, the more homeless you
52:59look."
53:01>> Oh, bro. Like I Yeah. I'm just just more
53:03disheveled. I don't shave. I've got long
53:05If you're listening and you're not
53:06watching, I long greasy hair. It's not
53:09really grease. It's coconut oil. But
53:10people think it's greasy. And it's it's
53:13that that's the entrepreneurial path is
53:15just bat Insane, you know, doesn't
53:18make a lot of sense to most folks. And
53:20th those are the folks that make it. I
53:22got soap.
53:23>> Usually really good monologues.
53:24>> Yeah. This is the second soap box I've
53:26jumped on. Forgive me.
53:27>> Well, I was going to say that that type
53:28of person usually can like monologue
53:30hard with like Yeah. I'll never shut the
53:32up, dude. I love the sound of my
53:33own voice. That's why I do these
53:34podcasts.
53:35>> Yeah. No, I I'd say
53:38A benefit that I had was
53:42because I was like that and very like
53:43shoot from the hip and and like look for
53:46better or worse my life depends on
53:48closing more clients. You know what I
53:50mean? And then only later you get better
53:52at delivery and like two things happened
53:55to me. One was I worked in a big
53:56financial center Hong Kong and therefore
53:58I was surrounded by the other type of
54:00guy of like Ivy League. You have to wear
54:03the costume. you have to like put on
54:05like big time and otherwise you will not
54:07be
54:08>> I actually wore a collared shirt for
54:10like the first week when I I sold a
54:12company and worked at a venture capital
54:13firm for a year
54:14>> and then my boss like let me wear a polo
54:17shirt for a week and then he's like
54:18here's 400 bucks go buy three suits you
54:20can wear this on Fridays and I was like
54:22okay but that I was like very much very
54:25insecure about the fact that I was
54:27surrounded by like actual investment
54:28bankers and actual people who went to
54:29Harvard and everything like that and
54:31like like for better or worse well just
54:33because it's a banking driven
54:34environment like that becomes the high
54:36status thing and so therefore like I'm a
54:38creature in society
54:40>> you know like society tells you what you
54:42want to
54:43>> go after but that second of all
54:45something that happened to me was that I
54:46got a series of like Fortune 100
54:49contracts that were very large like very
54:51very very large and that you need the
54:54animal energy without a doubt because
54:56otherwise you will never get off the
54:57ground and like never be able to pitch
54:58someone with a straight face and be like
55:00I'm some dumb kid and I'm asking you for
55:01a couple million dollars here you
55:04But learning how to work, you can still
55:06learn a lot from those kind of people
55:08and how do they're the smartest people
55:10in the world. It's why they they just
55:12>> doing things for a reason.
55:14>> Yeah. Yeah.
55:15>> Yeah. And so I I just want to throw out
55:17there that it's not like both worlds are
55:20important. However, I would argue that
55:22if you only need like there's one that
55:24you actually need to go from zero to one
55:25and that is the animal energy, right?
55:27>> Like and that that like just structure
55:29and processes and books and everything
55:30like that alone. Well, the thing about
55:31the structure guys, and this is true of
55:33every CFO I've ever had in my life,
55:35except, you know, the one exception is
55:37the guy that I have right now because
55:38he's very entrepreneurial. But if you
55:40talk to every CFO who's ever lived, no
55:43business from the outside looking in
55:44makes any sense. They're all flawed
55:48ideas. They're never going to pencil.
55:49They don't because there there is
55:51elements of faith, love, serendipity,
55:54luck that just require to get you over
55:56the hump, you I mean, you see that with
55:58guys like Elon who I I'm obsessed with,
56:00dude. I think anybody who hates on him
56:02just doesn't understand him.
56:03>> Oh, I was defeated. I was a hater and
56:05then I defeated myself and I I like gave
56:07myself up. I was like reborn. Like I've
56:09been wrong too many times. Like
56:11>> I repented.
56:12>> This guy's the greatest that's ever
56:14lived. That's like all
56:15>> And everything he's done before he did
56:18it was counted as impossible.
56:19>> Oh, that that's what like when you're
56:21like skating where the puck is going.
56:22Like damn.
56:23>> Yeah. Damn. And dude, he doesn't even
56:24skate to where the puck's going. He
56:26decides where he wants to go.
56:27>> The goal.
56:28>> Yeah. Yeah.
56:29>> And this has been a a great show. Thank
56:30you for coming on, sir.
56:32>> Yeah. Thanks for having me, dude. I
56:33appreciate you a lot.
56:34>> Absolutely. So, unlimited capital uh
56:37listeners, hope you guys enjoyed the
56:39show.
56:39>> Oh, where can people find you? KM there.
56:41That's the last
56:42>> You can go to kum.me kasim.me.
56:45Uh you'll find my books are all free. I
56:48have a free forever community for
56:49entrepreneurs. Most of what I do is
56:51free. I've got some businesses that I
56:52own, of course, but you know, the one
56:55thing that I'm really passionate about
56:57is helping people in emerging nations
56:58find meaningful work. So, if you want an
57:00assistant who's not an assistant, who's
57:01truly a right-hand, go to ptoalent.com.
57:04But if you just want to hang out and
57:05follow my socials, go to cost.me.
57:07>> He's very educational and entertaining.
57:09Follow everyone. See you around. Best
57:11ever listeners.

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