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GEPC 2026 : De la COP30 à l'action locale : qu'allons-nous changer concrètement ? — Transcript

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0:17and deva kwenye Jehovah Jehovah Jehovah
0:49Jehovah Jehovah Jeo Jehovah Jehovah
1:19Jehovah, Jehovah. Act My the A big
6:53thank you to the musical group. Ladies
6:59and gentlemen, dear ITA leaders, dear
7:03guests, we would like to thank you once
7:05again. Please return to your seats in
7:08the room. We are now going to address a
7:12very important panel with a theme that
7:17invites us to move from international
7:19commitments to concrete achievements on
7:22the ground, and the theme is titled:
7:24From COP 30 to local action, what will
7:26we change concretely? So, to do this,
7:30we have the honor and pleasure of
7:32relying on one of our facilitators who
7:34needs no introduction and who will
7:36reveal the content of this panel to us,
7:39the panelists, and the rest of the
7:41activities. Let us all welcome Mr.
7:45Samuel Miaoui here. Can we give him a
7:50round of applause? Hello again. Hello
8:04everyone. You are not answering me.
8:08Hello everyone. Thank you again for
8:14your presence, for your patience, and
8:17for the rich contributions you are
8:20truly bringing to the success of this
8:233rd edition of the conference on
8:25environmental management and the
8:28protection of creation. As my colleague
8:34just introduced, the theme that will
8:37interest us in a moment is: From COP 30
8:40to local action. What will we change
8:44concretely? You know that a few months
8:49ago, specifically in December 2025, the
8:52parties were in Belém, Brazil,
8:55gathered for the Conference of the
8:58Parties, COP 30, from which a certain
9:02number of provisions and
9:04recommendations were issued. But for us
9:09here in Togo, thousands of kilometers
9:12from Brazil, what exactly can we take
9:14away from it? How can we practically
9:19implement all these things in our daily
9:21lives? That is what we are going to
9:26talk about with eminent personalities
9:28on the climate issue. And the first one
9:32I am going to invite to join the panel
9:35is a jurist first. Secondly, he is an
9:39expert in environment and climate
9:41change. He works at the Ministry of the
9:45Environment. I ask you to applaud Mr.
9:49Azanko Komlan to invite him to join the
9:53podium. Mr. Azanko, the applause is
9:57very weak. Thank you for your presence.
10:04The sec the second personality is a
10:12partnership facilitator at Compassion.
10:17I’ll let you in on a little secret.
10:19He was in Belém a few months ago and
10:23therefore experienced the COP 30
10:25activities firsthand. He is in charge
10:30of agricultural initiatives within the
10:33CLAR. He is someone you know very well
10:36and whom we are applauding, Mr. Anome
10:38Cossi Théodore. We have the honor, and
10:45it is always a great honor to have him.
10:48He was already on the first panel, but
10:50he is someone we never tire of hearing.
10:55Such initiatives are commendable, and
10:58his knowledge of the climate and
11:01environmental fields is extraordinary,
11:04which is why it is fitting that we
11:07wanted him to return to provide his
11:10perspectives on this subject. The
11:15promoter of the NGO Stade and GP Togo,
11:18Mr. B. Gado. Let’s applaud to welcome
11:22him. And we have a fourth personality
11:29on this set—well, I say "set" because
11:32I am used to televised debates. So on
11:36this panel, he is an agricultural
11:38entrepreneur and the West African
11:40representative to the Committee on
11:43World Food Security (CFS). He is the
11:48president of the Youth College of the
11:51CTO and of West Africa, Mr. Kouassé
11:54Afana Chao, whom we also welcome to
11:57this panel—let's give a warm round of
12:00applause for our various guests. With
12:08whom we will therefore debate the issue
12:10of COP 30. As I was saying, Togo was
12:15represented. I am a journalist, and
12:43I’m letting you in on the secret. I
12:45know how to interrupt people. So that
12:47we can really have discussions around
12:50this subject. And so we are going to
12:53pass the baton to Mr. Azanko. It is
12:57with him that we will begin. When we
13:00talk about COP today, the conference
13:03dedicated to climate issues. We were at
13:07the 30th edition in Belém last time.
13:11Very concretely and in a nutshell, what
13:13are the key takeaways from COP? 30.
13:28>> Hello, is it working? Before returning
13:34to the theme of the panel, I would
13:40first like to thank the organizers for
13:42inviting us to this debate, which
13:46serves as a framework for information
13:50and raising awareness among
13:52stakeholders. And before coming to COP
14:2430. When we talk about COP, it is the
14:28Conference of the Parties. That is to
14:30say, it is a meeting: International
14:41stakeholders meet first to develop
14:43decisions to be applied at the state
14:45level, at the national level. And
14:50secondly, they meet to assess the
14:53implementation of all the actions or
14:55decisions that have been taken. That
15:01being said, you know that 11 years ago,
15:05in Paris, an international agreement or
15:09treaty was adopted on the issue of
15:12climate change, which encompassed all
15:16states, including developed states,
15:19industrialized countries, and
15:22developing countries. On this basis,
15:28during COP 21 which gave birth to the
15:31Paris Agreement in 2015, this agreement
15:34innovated in this area by defining
15:37contractual actions, obligations
15:40towards territories, what we call
15:42territories, the territorial qualities
15:46which now, with the Paris Agreement,
15:48have a major role to play in achieving
15:52the objectives of this agreement. And I
15:56also want to recall that, um, when this
16:02agreement was adopted, there was a
16:04fundamental question at the center of
16:06this agreement, which is the
16:08development of a document that
16:10constitutes a pledge for each state to
16:13demonstrate its adherence to this
16:15agreement. The documents that we call
16:19nationally determined contributions,
16:22which are nothing other than, um,
16:24quantified commitments by states in
16:27terms of targets for reducing
16:29greenhouse gas emissions and adapting
16:31to climate change. So on this basis,
16:35>> bring the microphone a little closer to
16:36your mouth. OK. On this basis, this
16:39agreement had defined obligations for
16:42states, the implementation of which
16:45falls under a, what do you call it, a
16:48mechanism bottom-up; meaning that
16:53actions must be led from the base to
16:59the top, that is to say at the highest
17:02level, from the local authority base to
17:05the state level. that the states have
17:11what you call sovereign action to
17:14define or to regulate or to legislate
17:17and develop policies implemented at the
17:20base, this base that that's good. Hello
17:27? Hello? Is it good now? OK. So it is
17:32on this basis that this agreement
17:34defined commitments or implied a
17:36definition of the involvement of local
17:39authorities for the implementation of
17:41actions. Returning to COP 30 which took
17:47place from November to November 21,
17:492025 in Belém, this agreement, I would
17:52say that it follows the successive
17:54conferences of the parties that have
17:57taken place since COP 21. So what
18:01should we take away from COP 30? I will
18:07simplify the decisions into three,
18:11three words that I would call the three
18:14. OK. So in going to this agreement or
18:20this conference, the objective was to
18:22be able to mobilize actors for the
18:25implementation of concrete actions for
18:28the achievement of the objectives of
18:31the Paris Agreement, notably the
18:33implementation of the nationally
18:36determined contributions. If we take
18:40these nationally determined
18:42contributions, we know that most
18:44actions, or rather the fundamental
18:47actions that must be implemented to
18:49reach the 2 degrees Celsius target, or
18:52even 1.5 degrees by 2100, are found in
18:55most development sectors, notably the
18:58energy sector, the agriculture sector,
19:01and the waste sector. So it is on this
19:05basis that the COP had to adopt
19:07provisions on the obligation of States
19:09to renew their nationally determined
19:11contributions; which means renewing
19:13also means increasing ambitions and
19:15increasing the actions to be
19:17implemented. So one of the actions or
19:22decisions of the COP is to see States
19:25mobilize around the revision of the
19:28nationally determined contributions
19:30that were developed and submitted in
19:332015. I think, and I also wish to
19:37recall that, according to the
19:40obligations resulting from this
19:42agreement, States should develop,
19:45develop and submit, nationally
19:47determined contributions and renew or
19:50revise them every 5 years. And the
19:55first revision took place in 2020 and
19:57the second revision should take place
20:00in 2025 because the COP had made
20:02recommendations to all States to be
20:04able to revise these contributions, and
20:06these nationally determined
20:08contributions in terms of actions
20:10should be raised in terms of ambition.
20:14We have actions regarding renewable
20:18energy. You are not unaware that since
20:22a COP that took place in Glasgow, COP
20:2526, it was a question of transitioning
20:30gradually towards the phase-out of
20:32fossil fuels, which constitute the
20:35essential problem of climate change. So
20:39actors should ensure that we can
20:42gradually phase out fossil fuels in in
20:50the actions to fight against climate
20:52change and move from the use of fossil
20:55fuels to renewable energies. And when
20:59we talk about the use of renewables,
21:01you know that it is local authorities
21:04as local entities that had to mobilize
21:07actors and actions to be able to
21:09implement
21:10>> actions
21:13>> and in terms of project development in
21:17solar-based electrification or wind or
21:23energy thermal
21:27>> thermal, yeah.
21:28>> So on this basis, the COP had
21:31recommended that all States should take
21:33action, and saying take action means
21:36that local authorities had a major role
21:39to play in this field
21:41>> in this field. Thank you very much for
21:44this brief presentation. I now come to
21:48you, sir, as I mentioned earlier, you
21:50were also at that COP, of course, on
21:52behalf of Compassion. But in very
21:56concrete terms, what are the overall
21:57takeaways, and for Compassion, for the
21:59churches here, what lessons should be
22:01learned?
22:04>> Thank you, Mr. Samuel, for the floor.
22:08The question...
22:10>> uh, I would like, I would like to
22:11address the question. First, say thank
22:14you to Joy for these contextual details
22:17and for providing these important
22:18reminders. I would also like to address
22:22the question with perhaps some figures
22:25that I invite you to note, and this
22:28will continue to fuel our reflections
22:30back home regarding the 30th conference
22:33held in Bonn. Note that there were
22:3842,618 participants coming from all
22:40over the world. That is a number, and
22:43more than 2,000 people participated in
22:46this conference remotely. There were 55
22:51decisions made at this conference, and
22:53120 countries renewed their commitment
22:56to climate issues. What also struck me
23:00about the figures is that we need to
23:03mobilize 1 trillion or, uh, 1.3
23:09trillion US dollars. I don't know if
23:13you can grasp that, per year, until
23:172030......35 for climate issues. For me
23:22, basically being a farmer by nature,
23:25the question I ask myself is: how will
23:27these figures change the daily life of
23:30a farm producer who is subject to
23:33climate difficulties and falling yields
23:36in Agombior? In Agombior, which is 40
23:39km from Schoa or in a community present
23:42here. How can these figures change
23:45anything? I have noted four lessons
23:48that we drew from the conference, and
23:52the first lesson is that climate change
23:55is a fact. It is something that doesn't
23:59need to be proven today. It is
24:02completely real in the daily activities
24:05of farmers, and we live it every day,
24:07so climate actions are becoming a
24:09priority. The second lesson I noted is
24:13that we must promote resilient
24:15agricultural practices or production
24:18systems. When we talk about agroecology
24:21, the panels—Panel 2 insisted on this
24:24yesterday—it is not a matter of
24:26choice. Climate change imposes these,
24:29uh, these realities on us, and we must
24:31adopt these sustainable practices when
24:33we talk about agroforestry, when we
24:35talk about sustainable farming
24:36practices. The third lesson I took away
24:41is that we, as producers, must be
24:44present in decision-making bodies in
24:46our countries or at all levels, even if
24:49it is at the community level, because
24:51why? We live this thing day to day. And
24:56if we don't report what we are
24:58experiencing, decisions cannot be made
25:01that address our questions, our
25:03realities, and our difficulties. But
25:05how can everyone, how can all farmers
25:07get together at the state level to make
25:10decisions? No, we must group ourselves
25:12together. We are talking about
25:14cooperatives. We as a church should not
25:17take this lightly. Cooperatives allow
25:20us to have representation at
25:23decision-making levels. The last thing
25:27I want to address as a lesson is that
25:29every organization that participated in
25:31this conference must return to take
25:32concrete actions at the Togo national
25:34office. When we returned, we worked
25:39with the experience we had in Brazil
25:41during this conference. We worked and
25:44outlined action points around three
25:47guiding axes that I want to share with
25:50you. And it is together with our
25:54partner churches that these action
25:55points will be implemented. The first
25:59thing is to consolidate strategic
26:01partnerships at the national and
26:02international levels. We met with
26:06technical partners like RAPAD globally,
26:09and we are working to strengthen these
26:13partnerships to better support churches
26:17in matters of combating climate change.
26:22We must also strengthen agricultural
26:24initiatives, or rather, we have planned
26:26to strengthen the agricultural
26:28initiatives you churches have
26:29undertaken, by doing what concretely?
26:33By mobilizing churches to secure
26:36agricultural land. The local partner
26:38centers have already started, it is a
26:40movement that has already begun. I am
26:42sure that if we were to share
26:43testimonies, the local partner centers
26:45could testify. For those who do not
26:47have land yet, the churches that have
26:48not yet acquired agricultural land. I
26:51believe we must join this movement to
26:53reach a vision of 5,000 hectares in
26:55Togo to promote sustainable farming
26:58practices. That is what Compassion is
27:01planning on this front, along with
27:03agroecology training at the NAPC level.
27:06We must continue with these initiatives
27:09. The other point I want to conclude
27:11with is the adaptation of interventions
27:13to meet the needs of the local partner
27:15centers. We must objectively assess our
27:20climate needs and report them to
27:22receive the necessary support from
27:24Compassion International. By doing what
27:27concretely? By conducting diagnostics
27:30of promising sectors. There are local
27:33centers that have already begun this
27:36process; I invite others to follow suit
27:38so we can venture into these sectors
27:41and adopt sustainable practices
27:43resilient to climate change, which will
27:45be a great help. We are going to
27:48structure the cooperatives and
27:50strengthen the parents 'cooperatives.
27:53This work has begun so that we can
27:56truly be strong cooperatives, capable
27:58of bringing our grievances or our
28:00challenges to the decision-making
28:03levels. And for this, we trust the
28:06church in Togo to carry this great
28:08project. Thank you. concrete actions.
28:11So, uh, you can applaud that, of course
28:14. Uh, it shows that Compassion
28:18International's participation in this
28:21COP 30, uh, was not just, or hasn't
28:24just been a walk in the park, but it
28:27was truly a learning moment. I listened
28:32to Mr. Azanko, who spoke a bit about
28:34what the COP is. I listened to Mr.
28:36Anomé, who presented in a very
28:38concrete way the lessons learned at a
28:40basic level. I have Mr. Bema by my side
28:44, who is a key player on this issue and
28:46was also at the COP. When Mr. Bema
28:50participated in this COP and listened
28:53to the discussions, how did you
28:55translate that into what you do every
28:57day? What did you take away from it,
29:00Mr. Bema?
29:01>> Thank you very much, Mr. G. Yes. Uh,
29:04you must understand that the first two
29:08speakers didn't tell you that to get to
29:11Belém, it's a 3-day journey. 3 days,
29:18you spend 3 days to arrive in Belém
29:21>> in the air.
29:22>> In the air. And when you arrive at uh,
29:29a transfer destination, you don't have
29:32—you have people who understand
29:34neither English nor French, who only
29:36speak Portuguese, and you have to fend
29:38for yourself to get by. These are the
29:45realities of the COP, first of all.
29:47Well, to say that, in fact, the COP is
29:50what we are currently experiencing. I
29:53think Compassion has better understood
29:55the principle of conferences, has
29:57better understood the principles of
30:00international meetings. The State
30:03participates in those meetings. To come
30:07and share information with the
30:09stakeholders so that they can be better
30:12oriented, not only to regulate part of
30:14the difficulties they face regarding
30:17the climate, but also to find niches to
30:20seek the means to strengthen their
30:22initiatives, and that is precisely the
30:25goal of the COP. And I would like for
30:29this purpose to congratulate Compassion
30:32International once again because
30:34churches should not just be destined to
30:36pray. Prayer is found even in work, in
30:42the work that we produce, the results
30:45that we yield, and the fulfillment of
30:48the needs that we set—that is to say,
30:51that we have. It is not, uh, staying in
30:56the streets that will bring us money to
31:00get us out of poverty or that will make
31:03us know God better. But it is finding
31:07the right niches to guide the actors to
31:10go and seek their needs and acknowledge
31:12, uh, to God, uh, the health and the
31:15energy He gave us and the intelligence
31:17He gave us to go, to go and accomplish.
31:22And that is what a good Christian is.
31:25And really, I would like to
31:27congratulate all these actions that you
31:29are leading for your congregation to
31:32show them the path of learning. It is
31:35very important to clarify that. So the
31:38COP, as they said just now, Mr. Corsi
31:41presented the figures to you, we are
31:44arriving at the COP. These are, right,
31:49negotiation meetings; that is to say,
31:52there are specialized people, at the
31:54level of sectoral ministries and so on,
31:57who meet to hold negotiations. But
32:02there are also initiatives that people
32:04promote, so exhibition centers, and
32:07people showcase their technologies,
32:09showcase their skills, showcase what
32:12they are doing in their countries, all
32:15so that people can buy. That's it. We
32:18go there to sell initiatives. And that
32:21is why generally when you go to the COP
32:23, do not go just because you see people
32:26going. Do not go just because you are
32:29necessarily going to find a partner at
32:31the COP. I have never liked the
32:34principle of saying, "We are going to
32:36look for a partner." You will never
32:38find one if that is the basis on which
32:41you are going. But if you go to see
32:44what people are doing in their other
32:46countries, what is interesting to take
32:48from what they are doing? What type of
32:51cooperation can we put in place between
32:54them and me? Because when you go, you
32:56also go with something. And when you go
32:59with something, you present to them
33:01what you have as a tool, as an element.
33:04I remember, there is a girl from
33:06Mongolia who even wrote to us here so
33:09that we could share our experience with
33:12them again because they had come to our
33:15pavilion and they saw the products I
33:17brought. I had brought plastic pavers.
33:21The pavers and the plastics that I told
33:23you about. I do recycling here. What do
33:25we do? We make pavers. And I even have
33:30another machine that will make tiles
33:32that will cover houses. The pavers are
33:35extremely good. If you want to see, if
33:38you want to know what it is about. When
33:41you leave this meeting, pass by the
33:44Atikoué roundabout. The central
33:47roundabout there, the green space that
33:49is currently being landscaped, it is
33:52our pavers that are being used there.
33:54And you will see the beauty of the
33:56pavers. You will see the consistency of
33:59the pavers because these pavers have
34:01nothing to do with ordinary pavers in
34:04terms of durability, in terms of
34:06capacity, and in terms of aesthetics.
34:09And these paving stones can be used to
34:12build streets, they can be used for
34:14landscaping house courtyards, and they
34:17can be used for sidewalks or green
34:20spaces. And I also make crutches for
34:23people with disabilities. The crutches
34:27you buy here, even the ones that come
34:29in—meaning those that have already
34:32been used and are resold here—the
34:34minimum price for a pair of crutches is
34:3610,000 francs, isn't it? But we are now
34:39manufacturing crutches for you in Togo.
34:41This is our home. We have machines to
34:45manufacture the crutches and we offer
34:47them to you at 7,000 francs a pair,
34:49which is 3,500 francs each. And if your
34:56crutch is damaged, meaning the handle
34:59is broken, you bring the aluminum pipe
35:02and we will remake what we call the
35:05handle for 1,500 francs. Starting in
35:14January, I am beginning the production
35:16of white canes for blind people. The
35:20white canes that are sold here for
35:2220,000 to 25,000 francs, I will sell
35:24those white canes for 5,000 francs each
35:26. That is something concrete. And so,
35:32it is these concrete things that you
35:34will present to show that you have new
35:36technologies, and it is waste that we
35:38use to make them. In Africa, there is
35:41no one doing this at the moment. So
35:43that shows what you are bringing to the
35:46table. And the people around you, from
35:50other communities and so on, they will
35:52tell you what they are also doing, and
35:54you see what you can take from them,
35:56what you can contribute to them, and
35:58that is what creates partnerships.
36:01Otherwise, no partner funds someone for
36:05free to develop. They fund them because
36:08they have an interest in gaining
36:10something from them. And today, what we
36:13are experiencing in our country,
36:16regarding the climate issue, is real.
36:19Have you seen, even in Lome, the short
36:22season, the monsoon? You have seen how
36:26the duration of the monsoon...Generally
36:29, the rains stop around the end of June
36:32and July, as they did this year, and
36:34already by early October, we have
36:37abundant rain until the end of the
36:39short season. How much rain have we had
36:43since the start, since the start of the
36:46new rainy season? And between the two
36:50rains? Look at the distance, the gap
36:51that existed between the two rains. If
36:53you plant crops, they will be lost, you
36:56won't get anything from them. On the
36:59other hand, in the north, the seasons
37:01have completely changed. Generally in
37:06the north, the first rains begin at the
37:09end of March, and we, as poor farmers,
37:12plant cowpeas at the end of March,
37:15harvest them by late May or June, and
37:18then switch the field from cowpeas to
37:21corn. Can we still grow two crops today
37:24? If you don't have two fields or two
37:28areas of cultivable land, you can no
37:30longer do it. And that is how you have
37:33to adapt. You must understand that the
37:34climate is changing. The climate, that
37:36is climate change right there. I mean,
37:38to better understand and appreciate
37:41climate change, you have to look at the
37:44accompanying changes, whether it's in
37:46the nature of the soil. So, how the
37:49soil has become impoverished today. If
37:51you previously used three bags of
37:54fertilizer, right, for one hectare, to
37:58amend your one-hectare plot, today you
38:01need seven or eight bags to get the
38:05same yield as before. Because I have
38:08done farming; I’ve grown corn and
38:11yams, even when I was in the sixth
38:13grade; it was my yam field that bought
38:16me my first bicycle for school. So you
38:20see, that's how it is. We used to know
38:24how the seasons varied over time, but
38:26today we don't anymore. Climate change
38:31is real. The information we give you is
38:34meant to spark innovation. The
38:36professor said it this morning just a
38:38moment ago, saying that whenever there
38:40is a problem, God has already planned
38:42the solution right beside it. But you
38:45must have an open mind to recognize
38:48>> the solution.
38:50>> And it is through commitment,
38:52determination, and initiative that we
38:54find solutions to the problems we face.
38:56Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr.
38:58Bema. Don't be stingy with your
39:02applause for the great announcements he
39:04made, to see today that Togo will
39:07produce its own white canes, its own
39:09crutches, and that we are already
39:12producing plastic-based pavers that are
39:14starting to be used. So today we have
39:19concrete things to present at the
39:20international level, as he said. And so
39:24we can act practically within the
39:28realities of our daily lives and
39:31provide solutions. So you see that for
39:34us here, he reminded us, it's a bit
39:36like our COP here, it's the Compassion
39:39COP, which has very concrete solutions
39:41today. Mr. Koudas, everything being
39:44said about the COP, it’s true that
39:47when we talk about it, it seems like
39:50distant international meetings despite
39:53the figures my colleague presented. We
39:57have this idea of a meeting where you
39:59have to travel for 3 days by plane to
40:01get there, sit down, and talk about
40:03this and that. You are also an actor in
40:06climate issues. For you, do these
40:09things impact national policies and the
40:13various daily policies?
40:18>> Thank you very much Mr. Ahoui, it is a
40:21pleasure for me to share the stage with
40:23you. I would first like to thank
40:27Compassion and also Théo, young Théo
40:31who is your colleague. He is my
40:34colleague too, he is someone who is
40:36becoming more and more essential in the
40:38Togolese movement. I don't know if you
40:42know it, he is the president of the
40:43college of young farmers. So I mean I'm
40:46talking about the network of
40:47professional young agricultural
40:47producers of Togo that has been hidden
40:49until now. That is not right.
40:53>> It has just been revealed and we
40:54applaud that.
40:56>> What he does in the Togolese
40:58agricultural world, I thank God that I
41:02found him in any case at Compassion in
41:052017, we have walked the path together
41:08until now. Why do I say that? Because
41:12at a certain point in the life of the
41:15network, had it not been for his taking
41:18office as president, we would be in
41:20confusion. He had to bring his genius
41:26to be able to restore this network.
41:29Beyond that, when we were in Belém, I
41:32met another year, Mr. Iréné who has
41:35always been an honorary older brother
41:38to me, someone who taught me in class,
41:41what do we call it, for the for the for
41:48the new ones, Sunday school. He has
41:51always been an older brother who does
41:53his job very well at Belem. I saw them,
41:57I had trouble greeting my older brother
41:59because he was running with Théo to
42:01all the meetings, as he says, there are
42:03tens of thousands of people. If you
42:07don't have a clear idea of what you
42:08went looking for at COP, it's a big
42:10market, so you're going to walk around
42:12without being able to eat. There is
42:15water. You will drink, but you will
42:17come back without results. But I saw
42:20Mr. Iréné doing the job with Théo on
42:22the ground. As for me, I was sent by
42:26the ROPPA, the Network of Farmers' and
42:28Agricultural Producers 'Organizations
42:30of West Africa, of which COP is a
42:35member. So once there, the instructions
42:39were clear. What are we bringing back
42:42for the Togolese peasant movement and
42:45for West Africa in general? So it was a
42:50matter of seeing the different parties
42:53that gather to discuss family farming.
42:57So when I speak of family farming, I am
42:59talking about that agriculture
43:01practiced in our countries where the
43:03family is at the heart of it. It is
43:09different from industrial agriculture
43:11because industrial agriculture is based
43:14primarily on profit; what people eat or
43:16what it does to them does not matter.
43:20All we want is money. Ah, that is
43:22industrial agriculture. Industrial
43:24agriculture is different from modern
43:26agriculture. What is family farming can
43:28be modernized. So, once there, the
43:32question was to see what to do about
43:35family farming, which employs 80%of the
43:38world's population and also provides 70
43:41%of the world's food needs. And so,
43:45when the different parties gathered,
43:48they told themselves it is good that in
43:51our countries and our regions we can
43:54continue to defend the role that family
43:57farming plays. Because we cannot do
44:00otherwise. We cannot now ask the State
44:04to invite people to produce food whose
44:07origin we do not know, which is just
44:10transforming waste into food for us for
44:13the sake of money. Fortunately, in Togo
44:18, these organizations, together with
44:21other partners including Formation,
44:23were able to set up the PNAFAT, the
44:25National Platform for the Promotion of
44:28Family Farming, which fights, with the
44:30support of the Ministry of Agriculture,
44:33to give a significant place to family
44:35farming in our country. And so, this is
44:39the activity that we have been doing
44:41since the dawn of time on the ground. I
44:44even think that it is great. The
44:47Togolese government and the regional
44:49network are a bit ahead of everything
44:51that has been said regarding family
44:53farming at the global level. Beyond
44:56that, we have relied on the promotion
44:59of agroecology, and as it has been said
45:02, the regional network is doing a very
45:06good job with the support of partners
45:09like the FAO and so on. So, as for the
45:13agroecology he mentioned, we must do
45:15everything to bring our environment
45:17back to life, to make what we eat and
45:20the waters that surround us healthy,
45:22and so on. Everything we do to
45:26drastically reduce the draconian use of
45:28chemical products must be done. So this
45:33is what the regional network, in
45:34concert with other platforms, is doing
45:36on the ground. Beyond that, there is
45:40climate adaptation. As the
45:42representative of the Ministry of the
45:45Environment said. We cannot do
45:47otherwise. Environmental degradation or
45:50climate degradation is following its
45:52own path. We can do nothing to stop it.
45:57However, we can adopt behaviors to
46:00reduce the consequences on our lives.
46:05Everything we can do to try to adapt
46:08our existence to all these changes
46:10affecting the world. Beyond that, there
46:14is the protection of our lands, the
46:16protection of the environment and our
46:18waters so that industrialists do not
46:21wallow with impunity in dumping
46:23chemical products into our waters
46:25everywhere. Therefore, the whole fight
46:29must take place at our level, as
46:31farmers, with everything that
46:32Compassion is doing and other partners,
46:35so that the fight becomes a political
46:37fight to defend our environment and our
46:39living conditions. So that is the whole
46:43process I have participated in at the
46:45Bélèqu level; we are working in West
46:48Africa and in Togo in particular. Thank
46:51you.
46:51>> Thank you very much Mr. Couass; I see
46:53that on this panel I am the only one
46:55who was not in Bem. So, I am learning a
46:59lot from you. I also want to point out
47:03to everyone following this panel online
47:05that you can also participate by
47:07posting a comment, or rather by writing
47:09your comments in the chat, which we
47:11will be happy to read here, or your
47:13questions when we open the question
47:15phase. We are going to be very, very
47:19brief now to say as much as possible
47:21before the end of this interview. Mr.
47:24Azanko, now that we have an idea of
47:26everything that was said in Bem, I have
47:28learned from all these actors
47:30everything that was said, and I have
47:32seen the practical application of these
47:34things. My question now is to know how
47:39all of this is transposed into national
47:42policies. Very quickly, your microphone
47:46. Okay, thank you very much. How is
47:53this transposed into national policy?
47:56You know that, uh, the adoption of
48:00treaties falls within the scope of
48:02states. Now, in order to implement them
48:06, states must transpose the decisions
48:08of the treaties into what we call the
48:11legal framework, that is to say, into
48:13our national laws, starting from the
48:16constitution, so that they can be
48:18implemented at the national level. How
48:22is this done concretely in our
48:24countries? I will take the example of
48:26the issue of adaptation. Uh, to be able
48:29to implement adaptation actions, it
48:32will naturally be necessary to develop
48:35plans that we call national adaptation
48:38plans. And in this regard, I think Togo
48:41has already developed one that was
48:43revised in 2023. Beyond the national
48:49adaptation plan, this must also be
48:51transposed at the community level. at
48:55the local level, and that is where we
48:58talk about the LAPs, that is to say,
49:00local adaptation plans. This means that
49:05what is developed at the national level
49:07must reach the regional and municipal
49:10levels so that it can be effectively
49:12implemented. I also spoke about a
49:16strategic document we call the
49:18Nationally Determined Contributions,
49:20which are simply the quantified
49:22commitments of states. For this to be
49:24implemented at the national level, I
49:26spoke about the role of local
49:28authorities. Therefore, this must also
49:30be carried over to the local level. And
49:33how could we carry it over? By breaking
49:37down the actions included in the
49:39national contributions into local
49:41actions that can be structured into
49:43projects to submit to partners, in
49:45order to secure funding to implement
49:47activities. That is what I can say
49:50regarding adaptation.
49:51>> Now, do you feel this in the context of
49:54our country? Because that is what
49:57interests us, what will be done that
49:59will benefit the small-scale producers
50:01that we are here. Do you feel this
50:04transposition happening?
50:07>> Naturally, we have proceeded with this
50:11transition. Especially since I just
50:13said that Togo has developed national
50:15adaptation plans at the national level
50:17that are being transposed to the local
50:19level. So today, for most local
50:22authorities, I think between 2023 and
50:252024, at the Ministry of the
50:27Environment, we received support from
50:30the FAO to assist a certain number of
50:33local municipalities in developing
50:36their local adaptation plans. Beyond
50:40that, we also accompanied them in
50:43developing their energy-climate plans,
50:45which are nothing more than the
50:47breakdown of the nationally determined
50:50contributions, where actions
50:52specifically concern energy,
50:54sustainable development, sustainable
50:57transport, and sustainable agriculture.
51:00He spoke of agroecology; all of that is
51:03transcribed in the municipal plans of
51:06...It is now up to the municipalities
51:10and local authorities to take the
51:12initiative to develop projects to
51:14submit to partners so they can
51:16implement them; that is what I...
51:19>> Mr. Nomet, regarding the adaptation
51:23opportunities today for our churches
51:26that are involved in production, and
51:30Mr. Gado mentioned earlier the entire
51:33impact of climate change on their daily
51:37production. What are the adaptation
51:41opportunities for churches today?
51:43>> Thank you for that question. I find
51:47this question very relevant because we
51:50believe that the institution God
51:52mandated for the holistic development
51:55of human capital is the church; it is
51:58the institution He put in place. So, if
52:03we are talking about climate change
52:06that needs to be corrected or acted
52:08upon concretely, churches must step
52:11into their role. I have four proposals
52:15for the churches, four action proposals
52:18that I am going to share. The first
52:22proposal is to continue raising
52:25awareness. It is true, we say we are
52:29already doing it, but they say
52:30repetition is pedagogical. We must
52:33continue and strengthen
52:35awareness-raising efforts on climate
52:38issues so that every church member can
52:42understand, but also go beyond the
52:44church into the CDEJs and communities
52:48to talk about climate issues so people
52:51understand and take action. And that
52:55falls to the church. I know there are
52:58biblical foundations that justify this,
53:00which pastors can even use to develop
53:03their preaching. And it is part of the
53:06gospel of faith because we are mandated
53:09to manage creation. It is what God told
53:12Abraham: to cultivate and tend the
53:15garden that is meant to feed him, and
53:17as Christians, it is our duty to take
53:19care of the earth. So we must continue
53:22raising awareness. But I also encourage
53:25the CDEJs to set up educational spaces
53:28within the centers themselves and in
53:31the community to allow children and
53:33young people to learn. If we take an
53:37agroecological educational garden as an
53:40example, young people can come and
53:42learn things there that we are doing at
53:45Nabas NPC today, and at the project
53:48level itself. We have gained field
53:51experience and realized that farmer
53:53field schools are an approach that
53:56teaches small producers best. The
54:00church can take the lead and set up
54:03farmer field schools for sustainable
54:06agriculture and agroforestry where
54:09parents will go to learn, see the
54:11process, and see the results. Once
54:15convinced, they will only then apply it
54:17to their own farms. I believe that we
54:19must engage as a church in these
54:22initiatives. The next point, the third
54:25one, is to promote climate leadership
54:27among our youth. We can develop climate
54:31champions who are young people in our
54:34communities. Imagine if every church or
54:38CDEJ community had an environment club
54:40or a climate club, and at the cluster
54:43level, they formed climate committees
54:45that could approach their local
54:48authorities. As the ministry said
54:52earlier, there are communal climate
54:54change adaptation plans, and they will
54:56be able to work with their local
54:58authorities as a communal or zonal
55:00climate action committee, working with
55:02them and the state at the local level
55:05to meet this challenge. I believe we
55:08must start by engaging champions on
55:11climate change. If it is only us doing
55:13it while leaving the youth aside, it is
55:16not sustainable. I believe that is what
55:18, uh, Paul said to Timothy, right? "
55:22What you heard from me in the presence
55:24of many witnesses, be able to pass on
55:26to others." Is that what we must also
55:29do regarding climate issues? Passing on
55:32this expertise to young people who will
55:34develop climate solutions in their
55:36communities. Uh, the last point of
55:39action I want to propose to the
55:41churches is to promote green
55:43entrepreneurship. I am happy that Mr.
55:47Gado is here to motivate those of us
55:50who are young. It is green
55:52entrepreneurship that Mr. Gado is
55:54currently doing. While there are
55:56climate problems in their communities,
55:59you know that in terms of business,
56:01problems are project ideas. Project
56:04ideas are born from the problems we
56:06experience. So we must lead young
56:09people to be capable, to strengthen, to
56:11equip these young people, these
56:13children, to meet, to be able to meet
56:14climate challenges and propose
56:16solutions. That is what is called, uh,
56:19uh, green entrepreneurship. A young
56:22person who produces compost, there is
56:23the case of PV1, the young people
56:25produce compost that they provide to
56:26parents for production. They sell it,
56:29they earn money, they are, uh, uh, they
56:31are here, their products are on display
56:33, you can go see them. So these are
56:36things we can also engage young people
56:39in to be able to, uh, turn climate
56:41problems into job opportunities,
56:43economic opportunities for their
56:45survival. Thank you very much. Which
56:48goes to show there is always fertile
56:50ground for opportunity. Even when we
56:55mention all the difficulties posed by
56:58climate change, there are always
57:00adaptation opportunities to get out of
57:02this situation. Mr. Gado, the question
57:07I am going to ask you might be a bit
57:09bothersome because you mentioned it
57:11when you took the floor, and I will
57:13come back with the same question for
57:14Mr. Azanko. I am going to talk about
57:17funding. Uh, you said that, for you,
57:19participating in the COP is not to go
57:21looking for funding. But you know that
57:24when we, our states reflect, it is
57:26first: we have, it's good, we have all
57:27that. Now, we have developed national
57:31policies, sectoral policies, local
57:32policies, and everything. Now, we are
57:35waiting for the funding. Is that, for
57:38you, the right approach, or how do we
57:40adapt in terms of funding? Thank you
57:43very much, uh, sir. I believe that Mr.
57:47Azamko knows me well and he knows my
57:49positions well regarding the question
57:52of funding, and it has been at least 3
57:55years. I’ve done other shows on One
57:59Plus and elsewhere, and I told them
58:02that Africa must not go to the
58:04Conference of the Parties as a beggar
58:07for money. The more you seek money, the
58:11less you are respected. But when you go
58:15as a giver, that’s how it is, my
58:17friends; I told you, I’ve always said
58:23back when I was an intern at the
58:25Ministry of the Environment, Mr. Azanko
58:27was at the Environment Directorate. And
58:31they know me; he’s known me since—
58:33well, in 2013, I did my internship at
58:35the Ministry of the Environment, and
58:37most of them called me "promoter"
58:39because I’m someone who pushes, who
58:41seeks. And today, I am a key civil
58:47society actor—I’m not bragging—
58:51who participates alongside the ministry
58:55in drafting policies and strategic
58:59guidelines. And this is why I would
59:05also like to say, regarding what Mr.
59:08Théo said earlier, that you must seek
59:12to set up structures at the local level
59:16, go to the communities, and present
59:20your initiatives. Not to go looking for
59:24money, but to present what you are
59:26doing so that you are taken into
59:27account. No one is going to make you a
59:29champion, you know. You are the ones
59:31who will create your own champion, and
59:33people will recognize it later. Now, on
59:36the issue of funding, I have a
59:40philosophy, since difficulties have
59:43taught me a different way of looking
59:46for money. When I started, I looked for
59:51money everywhere, within the university
59:54, at the institutional level, and at
59:57embassies. I had written letters
59:59everywhere. It was at that moment that
1:00:01I learned that ministries don't provide
1:00:02funding, that they are also looking for
1:00:04money themselves. And so, finally, I
1:00:10managed to develop my own
1:00:13income-generating activity. So, this
1:00:17income-generating activity is what
1:00:19sustains the structures today. And I
1:00:21assure you that it is the partners who
1:00:23come to us. It is the partners who come
1:00:27to us. We don't draft projects anymore.
1:00:29I haven't drafted a project since 2020.
1:00:33But when a partner comes and says, "
1:00:35Well, they express that they want to
1:00:37support us in this or that," then we
1:00:39draft the project according to the
1:00:41partner's direction; meaning we no
1:00:43longer write into the void. You see?
1:00:47No. So, at a certain point, when you
1:00:50bring your position to a certain level,
1:00:53you are carrying something, and people
1:00:57also need to be seen in your thing. And
1:01:01that is when the partnership is forged.
1:01:04But what Africa presents today at the
1:01:07COP, and that is why every day or every
1:01:10year we find ourselves arguing, is that
1:01:13the major powers make commitments to
1:01:15finance a certain amount, but they
1:01:18never release those funds. And worse,
1:01:22when they are truly compelled to
1:01:25release a portion of that funding, when
1:01:28they delegate it, they put it into
1:01:30agencies where they tighten the
1:01:33conditions, so countries find
1:01:35themselves working for years just
1:01:37trying to meet those requirements. You
1:01:42will realize this with the Green
1:01:43Climate Fund. We started the story of
1:01:47the Green Climate Fund here, yes, back
1:01:50in 2010, and it is only recently that
1:01:53the country, Togo, was able to mobilize
1:01:56a green fund through the ANPC. And
1:01:59today, when we were in Béem, the
1:02:01Director General of the ANPC told me
1:02:04that they were going to launch the
1:02:06project in January. To this day, I
1:02:10don't know if it has actually been
1:02:11launched or not because so many
1:02:13conditions are imposed; you mobilize an
1:02:15enormous amount of energy just to go
1:02:16looking for that money. Meanwhile, we
1:02:21have so many opportunities; he
1:02:23mentioned arable land, but look at all
1:02:26the opportunities that exist in the Mô
1:02:28plains, in the Oti plains, all the
1:02:31agricultural opportunities that exist
1:02:33in those areas. If Togo says: "Well, we
1:02:37are going to take climate action in the
1:02:39field of agriculture, we are looking
1:02:41for the means." Even if it is bank
1:02:45investment, private investment that we
1:02:48put in place, where we engage private
1:02:50actors working in the agricultural
1:02:53sector, we work to make land available
1:02:56to those actors to allow them to
1:02:59develop farmlands to serve our
1:03:01industries. We set up industries within
1:03:05the country, and you will realize that
1:03:07Togo will go to the COP saying that I
1:03:09am contributing this much to reduce
1:03:13emissions and I am ready to finance
1:03:15this amount for the reduction. Every
1:03:19country will come running to the
1:03:21country to say that they also need to
1:03:24seek funding from us. But if we go as
1:03:29beggars, people will deceive us, they
1:03:31will lead us astray. We will remain in
1:03:34a state of permanent search for
1:03:36financing. They will develop strategies
1:03:40that direct you to mobilize energy to
1:03:43go look for that funding for 10 years
1:03:45while your populations are suffering,
1:03:48and we are stuck on program after
1:03:50program after program. And on that, my
1:03:53philosophy is clear. Africa must change
1:03:55its position. But if Africa is to
1:03:57change its position, it is not only
1:03:58Togo that must change its practices,
1:04:00but the entire African continent.
1:04:03African leaders must manage to unite in
1:04:05this direction to say: this is what we
1:04:08are capable of contributing in terms of
1:04:11funding to reduce climate consequences,
1:04:14and only then can we effectively shift
1:04:16paradigms. Thank you.
1:04:18>> Thank you very much, Mr. Bema, for that
1:04:20advice. Mr. Koudas, uh in light of
1:04:26everything just said, for you, how can
1:04:29we formulate an advocacy today with the
1:04:32actors we are here, uh, who are in
1:04:35practice; how can we formulate a
1:04:37climate advocacy today?
1:04:42>> Thank you very much. uh to be able to
1:04:46formulate a climate advocacy. I will
1:04:49start, I will proceed on the principle
1:04:52that the ROPPA is already adopting with
1:04:55these national platforms, which is a
1:04:58tool called the family farming
1:05:00observatory. With this tool, it is no
1:05:04longer just people well-trained in
1:05:06universities who will come. So that is
1:05:10the framework that, at the level of
1:05:12ROPPA and the CTOP, the Togolese
1:05:13coordination of farmers' organizations
1:05:15and agricultural producers in Togo, is
1:05:17using. That is the framework we are
1:05:21adopting, and it did not start recently
1:05:23. The observatory began in 2014, and we
1:05:27have already produced a lot of
1:05:28information that can serve as advocacy
1:05:31on the climate front. Thank you very
1:05:33much.
1:05:34>> Thank you very much, Mr. Nomé. To add
1:05:37a point on this aspect.
1:05:40>> Indeed, I would just like to add to
1:05:43what was said, a well-structured system
1:05:45at the level of ROPPA, but it is not
1:05:48possible if the farmers are not united
1:05:50together and if everyone is in
1:05:52dispersed ranks; it is not possible.
1:05:57Yesterday, the representative of the
1:05:59CTOP said it, the doctor said it, uh
1:06:02today, there is no project at the
1:06:04Ministry of Agriculture, or even the
1:06:06Ministry of Environment, deployed in
1:06:08Togo without the CTOP being involved.
1:06:13The CTOP is the platform for
1:06:14agricultural producers, right, for
1:06:16small producers like you and the
1:06:18observatory of the farmer or the
1:06:19farmers 'tool. Every week, I receive
1:06:23requests about climate trends in my
1:06:26area and I provide that information.
1:06:29Why did they land on me? Because I am
1:06:31part of a network of young farmers and
1:06:34they chose me so that I could report
1:06:36what young farmers are experiencing in
1:06:39a concrete way. That is why we say that
1:06:42as a church, we cannot be in dispersed
1:06:44ranks, leaving our faithful in
1:06:46dispersed ranks to fend for themselves
1:06:48in their fields. who will suffer from
1:06:51these climate changes until the end.
1:06:54But we must unite into functional
1:06:57cooperatives that work, operate, and
1:07:00join farmers' networks to be taken into
1:07:03account, so that our voices can reach
1:07:07the decision-makers. It is often said
1:07:10that those closest to the mill hear or
1:07:13understand the sound better. We are the
1:07:16ones who are, we are the ones living
1:07:18the situation. We are the ones who can
1:07:20bring it up. So, let us organize
1:07:22ourselves, take the issue of
1:07:24cooperatives rigorously, and move
1:07:26forward. Thank you very much.
1:07:29>> Thank you, Mr. Anomé. It's true that
1:07:32we are churches and that we are going
1:07:35to heaven, but in the meantime, we eat
1:07:37on earth, and therefore earthly
1:07:39realities must truly interest us. We
1:07:43must act on them so that our existence
1:07:45and our living conditions on earth are
1:07:48improved. We are now at the point where
1:07:51we will take questions from you if you
1:07:53have any. While you are preparing your
1:07:56questions, I am going to return to Mr.
1:07:58Azc. I promised I would come back to
1:08:01you. What do you think in a practical
1:08:08way? What can we do to solve this
1:08:11specific funding issue? We can no
1:08:15longer be dependent, meaning waiting
1:08:18for funding before we take action. But
1:08:21perhaps, as Mr. B said, we have
1:08:24concrete things that interest our
1:08:26partners. Thank you very much. Before
1:08:33answering that question, I will make a
1:08:35small clarification regarding my friend
1:08:37B's statement. You know, there is a big
1:08:43difference between the civil society's
1:08:45approach to resource mobilization and
1:08:47the approach of states. But when states
1:08:53mobilize behind these funding requests,
1:08:56it is not a way for states to beg or
1:09:00anything. Regarding states, we say that
1:09:05this stems from our most absolute right
1:09:09to address our partners. Especially
1:09:14since the funding obligation is written
1:09:16in black and white in the conventional
1:09:19provisions. To set things straight, the
1:09:24conventions and treaties have defined
1:09:26obligations for developed countries,
1:09:29industrialized countries that are
1:09:31responsible for climate change, and
1:09:33they have accepted these obligations to
1:09:36mobilize resources for the benefit of
1:09:38poor countries to support the fight
1:09:40against climate change. It is in this
1:09:44dynamic that we say we must apply the
1:09:46law. You see, I take the example of
1:09:50Article 4 of the convention, which
1:09:52states that developed countries must
1:09:54provide—in the text, if you can read
1:09:56it—developed countries must provide
1:09:58financial support to developing
1:10:00countries and the least developed
1:10:02countries to facilitate adaptation and
1:10:04to reduce emissions. It is written, and
1:10:07they themselves recognized this
1:10:08obligation when the time came. They
1:10:11honored your commitments. This does not
1:10:14stem from—I don't know how to say it.
1:10:16It is not a way for States to demand,
1:10:18but we say that we are claiming what is
1:10:20rightfully ours. Well now, I return to
1:10:24a only States are parties to the
1:10:29conventions or treaties. Therefore,
1:10:32only States can demand the application
1:10:34of these treaties. And I return now to
1:10:37the conditions, or the financing
1:10:39conditions, or the criteria. It's true,
1:10:44he noted it, he highlighted it. It is
1:10:47true that today the criteria for
1:10:49accessing funding are very tough, and
1:10:52to be able to access funding, you
1:10:54really need to know the criteria, the
1:10:57criteria surrounding resource
1:10:59mobilization. We say that the issue of
1:11:03climate change is not a question of
1:11:05traditional development. When you want
1:11:09to develop a project, it's not the
1:11:11economic project, the economic
1:11:14development project itself, that needs
1:11:16or requests the funding, but the aspect
1:11:19related to the climate that we call in
1:11:22our jargon "climate additionality."
1:11:26That is to say, the problem that the
1:11:28climate brings to your traditional
1:11:31development model. So that is what must
1:11:33be resolved. Now, if you want to
1:11:36develop, you want to request funding to
1:11:39build roads, to, I don't know, develop
1:11:42agriculture as we do. We have channels;
1:11:45let's talk today about this
1:11:47relationship between States called
1:11:51Official Development Assistance. That's
1:11:52it, isn't it? ODAs. Official
1:11:57development assistance to resort to the
1:12:00development aid channel to finance
1:12:02traditional development. But if you
1:12:06want to solve a climate problem with
1:12:08the support you are requesting from
1:12:09these partners or donors, the project
1:12:11you develop must meet climate criteria.
1:12:15You see, it is in this dynamic that
1:12:17sometimes, it is true that it is up to
1:12:19the States to be able to develop
1:12:21projects that really meet the criteria.
1:12:24It is for this reason that every time
1:12:26we ask for support to do what we call
1:12:28capacity building, to train
1:12:30stakeholders, to train experts on how
1:12:32to develop projects that meet climate
1:12:34criteria. That is often what happens
1:12:37because they will tell you to integrate
1:12:39this aspect of demonstrating that the
1:12:41problem you want to solve with our
1:12:43support, our money, is really linked to
1:12:45the climate and that it is
1:12:56>> like giving that
1:13:00>> to strengthen our capacities using
1:13:02international experts to train local
1:13:05stakeholders on the development of
1:13:07climate projects. Now, if you develop
1:13:11traditional projects, the projects you
1:13:13want, you will be told they don't meet
1:13:15the criteria. It is for this reason
1:13:17that sometimes it's difficult when we
1:13:20develop projects and submit them to
1:13:22donors; it's not a rejection, but
1:13:24rather that our projects most of the
1:13:26time do not meet climate criteria.
1:13:29>> And that is what we must now work to
1:13:31fix.
1:13:32>> Yeah. projects to climate criteria. Yes
1:13:36, to climate criteria in order to
1:13:38benefit from financing. I was going to
1:13:41invite myself to give the floor back to
1:13:43Mr. Bema because I know it's a gap that
1:13:45we won't be able to close, but very
1:13:46quickly.
1:13:48>> No, no, I just wanted to say that Mr.
1:13:50Azamo is right. It is for legal reasons
1:13:54, for reasons of international
1:13:56commitments, they have an obligation to
1:13:59give us money. But it’s a bit of a
1:14:03diversion. But today, our country has
1:14:06understood the direction. I think that
1:14:10today, we are preparing to go to COP
1:14:12with a project portfolio. A project
1:14:16portfolio that is not focused solely on
1:14:19the issue of subsidies, but on
1:14:21investments. And this is an important
1:14:24innovation at the country level and it
1:14:27is what we have always recommended.
1:14:30Togo is going to COP today with a
1:14:33project portfolio that is not focused
1:14:35solely on subsidies, but with
1:14:37investments and private partners who
1:14:40can collaborate with the State to raise
1:14:43repayable financing. And in those cases
1:14:47, it is easier to mobilize climate
1:14:49financing than when you are looking
1:14:51only for subsidies. There you go.
1:14:54>> Thank you very much, Mr. Bema. Now, we
1:14:56give the floor. If there are a few
1:15:00questions or just a specific
1:15:03intervention, you may speak. Be very
1:15:07concise, we will be able to do two
1:15:10rounds quickly and close this panel;
1:15:13introduce yourself and ask your
1:15:16question directly. If it is addressed
1:15:19to someone in particular, please
1:15:20specify that. Thank you very much. You
1:15:22have the microphone.
1:15:26>> uh pastor and we have
1:15:33>> pastor, give your name please, we
1:15:35support children with Compassion
1:15:36International.
1:15:38>> Can you give your name please?
1:15:40>> I am Simon Pierre.
1:15:42>> Okay.
1:15:46>> Theologian, missiologist, and doctor of
1:15:48business and administration. I must
1:15:54first thank Compassion International,
1:15:57its director, and its team, really,
1:16:00because it is Compassion that brings us
1:16:03great minds; otherwise, we wouldn't
1:16:06know you exist. Now, apart from that,
1:16:12Compassion really covers many areas of
1:16:16life, and that too is a point to
1:16:19congratulate them on. Now, you spoke
1:16:24about uh, the climate adaptation plan,
1:16:29that is very good. But I think at the
1:16:34foundation, there is something you can
1:16:38perhaps do, especially in the
1:16:40agricultural and veterinary education
1:16:44curriculum, because when we go to the
1:16:47villages, from here to Dapaong, we find
1:16:51that the vast resources we have in Togo
1:16:54, uh, should not yield such a low
1:16:58production. That is to say, there
1:17:03should be an education program that
1:17:06encourages communication between
1:17:09agronomists, farmers, and livestock
1:17:12breeders. It is very important. You
1:17:15know, sometimes we suffer when you go
1:17:19to the villages and find that in the
1:17:22villages, they burn everything and
1:17:24anything. Every time, everything they
1:17:27cut is just to burn it. So matters of
1:17:32waste, matters of composting are really
1:17:36ignored, and they also ignore that fire
1:17:40kills the nitrogen, and you know that
1:17:43nitrogen is very, very, very important
1:17:47for legumes.
1:17:49>> Go ahead quickly, please. There is also
1:17:52what is killed. There are good microbes
1:17:55that are killed, whereas these microbes
1:17:58promote soil fertilization.
1:18:01>> Yes.
1:18:02>> So what I would like to propose is, for
1:18:05example, in the programs, try to add
1:18:08certain things that will foster this
1:18:11communication.
1:18:12>> Agreed?
1:18:13>> When one looks for a name
1:18:15>> Thank you very much, Pastor. We
1:18:17understood, given the time. We will
1:18:19move on quickly. The microphone will go
1:18:21behind you. There is a hand raised
1:18:24behind you that will ask their question
1:18:26, and after them, it will move to the
1:18:28next row. Go ahead quickly. Uh
1:18:32>> OK, thank you. Uh, I am Kaa,
1:18:35coordinator
1:18:37>> CL in Hauite.
1:18:38>> Yes.
1:18:40>> And my question goes directly to the
1:18:43lawyers who continue to use the concept
1:18:47of "poor country." After 30 years, I
1:18:53don't know what we are missing, why
1:18:56they qualify us as "poor countries."
1:19:02And now the second question is for the
1:19:05entrepreneur. I would like to know if
1:19:07these serv-
1:19:08>> the entrepreneur, you are speaking of
1:19:09Mr.
1:19:10>> Mr. exactly
1:19:12>> if these services are limited to Lomé
1:19:14or if they can be found inside the
1:19:16country. Thank you.
1:19:18>> Thank you very much. Any other
1:19:21questions? Here is the microphone. Go
1:19:24ahead.
1:19:24>> Thank you very much. There is an issue
1:19:31with the sound. Can we quickly change
1:19:33his microphone? I would like to thank
1:19:50Compassion International
1:19:52>> uh
1:19:53>> for this organization for bringing us
1:19:56up to speed on what is happening
1:19:58regarding environmental problems and
1:20:01climate change issues.
1:20:03>> May we know who you are?
1:20:05>> Pujo AD.
1:20:06>> Thank you very much.
1:20:07>> OK. TG 515.
1:20:08>> All right. So, I wanted to ask a
1:20:11question specifically. Is it that at
1:20:16the local level us farmers that we are,
1:20:22if we truly want to adopt measures or
1:20:27actions to reduce climate change, to
1:20:32act on climate change, for example by
1:20:37doing agro uh uh how agriculture Uh how
1:20:43agroecology for example,
1:20:47>> can us farmers that we are, can we make
1:20:51it?
1:20:52>> Okay.
1:20:53>> Because it's clear that the problem of
1:20:56climate change does not come from us.
1:20:59Now, if as farmers, poor farmers that
1:21:03we are, we start doing agroecology,
1:21:08will our children one day also be able
1:21:12to become what the developed countries
1:21:17are?
1:21:19>> Okay. Second thing, it's regarding uh
1:21:24the action of the church. Things could
1:21:28change if the church truly played its
1:21:31role. Let me explain. If Christians
1:21:36worked to be in high places, it can
1:21:39change if farmers, all the funding, for
1:21:42example, for agriculture to be able to
1:21:45help farmers to allow them to develop.
1:21:50If all this funding were well used,
1:21:53countries could adopt agroecology and
1:21:56in return money to evolve. But we
1:22:01realize that it doesn't work. Billions
1:22:06that go and ask that we finance because
1:22:08they polluted and then they pay in
1:22:09return to help their farmers. Is it the
1:22:12poor farmer who benefits from this
1:22:14funding in return? But if Christians
1:22:17work effectively and they rise up and
1:22:19they are the ones who are in the high
1:22:22places now and who are honest, they can
1:22:25now help the others who are truly
1:22:27farmers.
1:22:28>> Okay. Thank you very much.
1:22:29>> I wanted to say thank you.
1:22:30>> Thank you. Coming back, there is a hand
1:22:34in front, there we go. Yes, put it
1:22:39there and then we will finish at the
1:22:41front.
1:22:42>> Thank you.
1:22:42>> Yes,
1:22:43>> it is Mr. Mousou. Mr. Mouso,
1:22:46>> it is a small remark that I would like
1:22:47to make.
1:22:48>> Yes,
1:22:49>> we see before us people who are
1:22:53knowledgeable. But we have made a
1:22:57remark, we asked you for their contact.
1:23:01It is only Mr. Gado who gave the
1:23:04contact of one of those with whom he
1:23:07works. If we are here, these panelists
1:23:11pass without contact, which would mean
1:23:13that you do not want the development of
1:23:16those who are invited. It is a reality.
1:23:21You do not want the development of
1:23:23those who are invited. You see that Mr.
1:23:26Theo said that he was chosen because we
1:23:30saw him do something and surely we had
1:23:33his contact. What is "we"? the guest.
1:23:37If at the end you don't get to ask
1:23:39questions, if we have the contact, we
1:23:41quickly write to the person and we
1:23:43start to build relationships so that
1:23:45things can be born. So, change the CIT,
1:23:48send us the contacts on the thing. When
1:23:51the panelists speak, we need their
1:23:53contact info so we can take it and
1:23:55contact them all later. That is the
1:23:58remark I wanted to make, because I
1:24:00already asked, and they tell us all to
1:24:02go to Amana. No, we are going to go to
1:24:05him, that's impossible. Thank you.
1:24:07>> Thank you very much. You have been well
1:24:09understood. Uh, there was a hand in
1:24:12front. Uh, there. Go ahead.
1:24:18>> My name is Bou et Sorana.
1:24:21>> Can you repeat the name?
1:24:22>> Belou et Sorhanam. TJ 180.
1:24:24>> Alright.
1:24:26>> And for sustainable development. and
1:24:31having seen or having listened to
1:24:33everything you taught us. I would like
1:24:36to see in the educational system in
1:24:38Togo. Uh, I don't want to ask a
1:24:42question right away. Uh, when we look
1:24:46at the Togolese system and the
1:24:49teachings we receive in schools, our
1:24:52little brothers—we received them and
1:24:55our little brothers continue to receive
1:24:58them today—and seeing what we must do
1:25:01to sustain and to fight against climate
1:25:04change. in primary school. starting
1:25:11with primary school. and here. we
1:25:18should put these kinds of teachings. We
1:25:22see that in secondary school, these are
1:25:24subjects where we are told about things
1:25:27, we have never heard of these kinds of
1:25:30things. I would like to suggest, I
1:25:35would like to propose if possible, uh,
1:25:38in secondary school, if there are
1:25:41school gardens, if our teachers are
1:25:44trained to help, uh, our little
1:25:46brothers to really acquire this
1:25:49knowledge. But pitifully or
1:25:53unfortunately in the educational system
1:25:56in Togo, we don't have these kinds of
1:25:58education in the educational system in
1:26:01Togo. And I see that it is deplorable
1:26:05since, uh, these kinds of teachings, I
1:26:08think that it is with that that we can
1:26:11develop Togo. Why is agriculture. from
1:26:17a young age? It's maybe, maybe it's
1:26:21after the baccalaureate where you have
1:26:23to spend money so that your child can
1:26:26go to a specialized school, uh, a child
1:26:29of Tvé, to do agriculture. If you
1:26:32don't have the money, your child cannot
1:26:35go. Why don't we want to reflect on
1:26:38bringing these teachings from a young
1:26:40age so that the child from a young age
1:26:41can acquire that knowledge?
1:26:44>> Agreed?
1:26:45>> Why can't agriculture even be a
1:26:47fundamental subject? in schools and
1:26:50even be a coefficient of four, even.
1:26:52Why even a coefficient of 5?
1:26:55>> If you set that to a coefficient of 4,
1:26:56we are going to fail.
1:27:02>> To summarize what I wanted to say.
1:27:03>> Yeah, we have, we have understood what
1:27:05you said anyway. We are going to, we
1:27:07are going to, there, we will move
1:27:08quickly. We understood the questions.
1:27:10Thank you very much, uh, for these
1:27:12questions. I will start with Mr.
1:27:14Azankou. There is a question online
1:27:17that I would like to address to you
1:27:18before we move on to the questions
1:27:20asked here. The online question is,
1:27:23since we were talking earlier about
1:27:25criteria and you said that to develop a
1:27:27project that receives funding, it must
1:27:30be aligned with climate. Exactly. Now
1:27:33the person is asking to know the
1:27:35criteria upon which these climate
1:27:37projects can be validated. Do you have
1:27:41the microphone with you? Okay, thank
1:27:48you very much for this question, and as
1:27:51I said, I assumed that for a project to
1:27:54benefit from funding, it must be
1:27:57aligned with climate criteria. And
1:28:02among these criteria, we have two
1:28:03fundamental criteria. First, before we
1:28:06maybe break them down into several
1:28:09sub-criteria. The first fundamental
1:28:13criterion is that the project must
1:28:15address the need to mitigate greenhouse
1:28:17gas emissions, which are the
1:28:19fundamental problem at the root of
1:28:21climate change. The project must have
1:28:24the objective of reducing greenhouse
1:28:28gas emissions; that is the fundamental
1:28:30criterion. The second criterion is that
1:28:34the project's objective is to allow
1:28:37communities or ecosystems to adapt.
1:28:40Those are the two fundamental criteria.
1:28:42Now, if you develop a project, perhaps
1:28:44for the Green Climate Fund that is
1:28:47there somewhere, the Adaptation Fund,
1:28:49and then you have a project where you
1:28:51want to...help farmers increase their
1:28:57cultivated area or increase their
1:29:00yields, that does not meet any climate
1:29:04change criteria. So, that is what I
1:29:07mean. So beyond these two fundamental
1:29:09criteria, there are other criteria. You
1:29:12must demonstrate that this project can
1:29:14solve a climate problem and that the
1:29:17problem you want to solve is linked to
1:29:20climate change, and being able to
1:29:23demonstrate that is often difficult.
1:29:27You must be able to justify that the,
1:29:30the, what do you call it, the increase
1:29:34in drought or the, the, what do you
1:29:37call...
1:29:38>> rainfall all of that is linked to
1:29:43climate change.
1:29:44>> I will take another example. The
1:29:46Togolese coast, it is said that the
1:29:47Togolese coast is impacted by the
1:29:49climate
1:29:50>> and that it is because of the climate
1:29:51that the sea is advancing. Advancing.
1:29:53>> You will have to be able to truly
1:29:55demonstrate that it is climate change
1:29:57that constitutes the fundamental cause
1:29:59of the sea's advance. Sometimes you
1:30:02will develop projects where you want to
1:30:04reinforce the coast. will tell you no,
1:30:06that it's because when the sea advances
1:30:08in Togo, the sea is taking over the
1:30:10entire
1:30:13>> the commune of Aneho, that it's because
1:30:15there is downstream work being done at
1:30:17the Ghana level or something like that.
1:30:20You see roughly. So it is the
1:30:21demonstration, you know, that is
1:30:23difficult, the cause-and-effect link
1:30:25between climate and your project.
1:30:28>> Aside from that, there are other
1:30:29criteria that perhaps if we have time
1:30:31he could approach us
1:30:32>> Yeah. to to learn more. Thank you very
1:30:35much, Mr. Anome. Uh, there was the
1:30:37question from Doctor Pierre, the pastor
1:30:39, who who
1:30:41>> Yes, I will come back to you in a
1:30:42moment, uh, who was talking about the
1:30:44agricultural and veterinary education
1:30:45program. Uh, today, we know that
1:30:48Compassion has a curriculum that is
1:30:50provided, and in your intervention
1:30:53earlier, you encouraged, uh, churches
1:30:56to raise awareness. I think, if I want
1:30:59to summarize his question a little,
1:31:01wouldn't it also perhaps be good if
1:31:03this subject were part of the
1:31:04Compassion curriculum? Yes,
1:31:08agricultural issues, uh, schools don't
1:31:12really, our schools are not, you know.
1:31:16We are children of farmers, but at
1:31:18school, we aren't taught much until you
1:31:19land in higher education at the
1:31:21University of Lome. But I tell you that
1:31:24I work with many students who have
1:31:26graduated from the University of Lome,
1:31:28and the reality on the ground, uh, is
1:31:30sometimes different. Sometimes
1:31:32different, and it's on the ground that
1:31:34one must adapt to realities. Now, we
1:31:37can take, well, actions at our level,
1:31:39and that is what I believe Samuel is
1:31:41proposing, that these teachings become
1:31:44part of our curricula. I believe it is
1:31:47very important regarding questions, for
1:31:49example, of climate and environment. I
1:31:51believe that Compassion has worked a
1:31:53lot. We have resources today, uh, that
1:31:56can help us in these climate awareness
1:31:59and education activities centered on
1:32:01the Bible. That is the particularity.
1:32:05Centered on the Bible, because it is
1:32:07God who created the Earth, and if the
1:32:09Earth must be protected, the principles
1:32:12will come from the word of God, and
1:32:14these resources can be made available
1:32:16to churches for these teachings. We
1:32:19address agricultural issues, we have
1:32:22certain themes that we develop in terms
1:32:24of agroecology in our centers that we
1:32:26can, we can make available to churches.
1:32:30For these activities, we reinforce in
1:32:32terms of permagarden and permaculture;
1:32:34we have resources that are adapted to
1:32:36our realities that we can deploy at the
1:32:38level of churches that are willing to
1:32:40go through this journey with the young
1:32:42people and children by providing them
1:32:44with education. I don't know if I may
1:32:47take the liberty of addressing the
1:32:49question of agroecology.
1:32:50>> Yes.
1:32:51>> The question of agroecology
1:32:53>> many people say it, and it sparks a
1:32:55debate. If we commit to agroecology,
1:32:58can we, can we make it? "Making it."
1:33:02But I ask myself the question: what
1:33:03does "making it" mean? I have been
1:33:07lucky enough to visit the countries we
1:33:09call developed, to visit their farms on
1:33:11two different continents. I saw a
1:33:14person who operated more than 250
1:33:17hectares 500. but with unbelievable
1:33:23practices. But what I want to tell you
1:33:26is, they produce corn excessively, but
1:33:28they have never eaten this corn. They
1:33:32produced sorghum excessively but with
1:33:36many inputs, which they never ate. Now,
1:33:40we produce, and it is what we actually
1:33:43eat. If we reject agroecology, do we
1:33:47want to eat and die early? Is that "
1:33:50making it," or do we want to practice
1:33:53good methods, eat healthily, and be in
1:33:55good health—is that what "not making
1:33:58it" is? I think we need to reframe the
1:34:00debate. Western countries have largely
1:34:03created the climate problems we are
1:34:06solving today. Do we want to reproduce
1:34:08it, even if the income...I don't think
1:34:14that is the model we should copy. We
1:34:18compile the models, we see that it
1:34:19succeeds in production, but does it
1:34:21succeed climatically? I think we must
1:34:24raise this debate. And if we talk about
1:34:26agroecology, it does not immediately
1:34:28exclude chemical inputs, you know. We
1:34:30are talking about an agroecological
1:34:32transition. I don't want to get into
1:34:35the details, but as for "making it," we
1:34:37really need to reframe the debate, and
1:34:39our parents who never used fertilizer
1:34:41didn't look for food from the West. It
1:34:45is only today that our states are
1:34:46running there instead to get funding. I
1:34:48know it's grounded according to the
1:34:50experts, but if that is what we mean by
1:34:52"making it," I think we need to rethink
1:34:54this debate. Thank you very much.
1:34:57>> Thank you very much. Yes. Uh, we are
1:34:59going to, I want to move the question
1:35:01forward. Mr. Couass wanted to add
1:35:03something? Go ahead.
1:35:04>> There you go. I would like to add
1:35:05something to what Mr. Théo just said.
1:35:09It is practically the same example that
1:35:10I would like to give. I have had the
1:35:13opportunity to do the same, to visit
1:35:16farms in the West. I was one day on a
1:35:2050-hectare farm with only one person,
1:35:23and he managed it with only two
1:35:24tractors. A tractor from 6 a.m. to 11
1:35:29a.m. finished plowing the 50 hectares,
1:35:31and then another machine, the seeder,
1:35:34arrived and unfolded its arms—it’s
1:35:3725 meters here, 25 meters to sow—and
1:35:40in 2 hours, it had sown all 50 hectares
1:35:42, and then we left. There now, around
1:35:46the 50.
1:35:47>> When you say that, I see it makes you
1:35:49laugh; how long would that have taken
1:35:51here? 3, 4, or 5 weeks.
1:35:59>> There is an irrigation system installed
1:36:01all around the field. They don’t wait
1:36:05for rain, and they use practically
1:36:08around 12 bags of 50 kg per hectare.
1:36:13And beyond that, they have set up what
1:36:16are called methanizers. Methanizers are
1:36:21large structures where cow manure and
1:36:23animal waste are put to produce
1:36:26electricity. And after the electricity
1:36:29is generated, they drain it, and all of
1:36:31that is also spread onto the same plot.
1:36:35Even in the dry season, the state
1:36:37grants funds to these producers to
1:36:39maintain ground cover. The sun must not
1:36:42see the soil. It means all the support
1:36:45is there. But this production is not
1:36:48intended for human consumption. In any
1:36:51case, it is corn produced, uh, these
1:36:54are GMOs intended for animal production
1:36:57, and then that feed is processed to a
1:37:00certain extent, and that is what they
1:37:02send us in the supermarkets here. And
1:37:07then on Sunday, you will see our
1:37:08friends who are here with their
1:37:09families. Well, there you go. In the
1:37:11supermarkets, that is what is happening
1:37:13. That is why we are dragging so many
1:37:15things from them. They don’t drink
1:37:18canned things. They don’t eat canned
1:37:20things. I have never seen canned
1:37:22tomatoes in the European countries I
1:37:23have traveled through. No canned
1:37:26tomatoes, ever. Milk is always in
1:37:29containers like this; you collect it
1:37:30and then you drink. It’s just that
1:37:33they have a different way of doing
1:37:35things, and since we are dependent,
1:37:37they send us what they want to send us.
1:37:39Now, beyond that, why do we insist on
1:37:41agroecology? It is our practice. It is
1:37:44what we have already done, it is what
1:37:46we are already doing. If the soil is
1:37:49poor, we don’t completely forbid the
1:37:51use of a mineral input to give it life.
1:37:54What is happening over there is
1:37:56industrial agriculture intended to make
1:37:59money. It is not meant to feed anyone.
1:38:03That is the difference. I am ready to
1:38:05always be able to provide my support.
1:38:10FISEC is currently soliciting my
1:38:13organization. Uh, I have a farm to help
1:38:18many producers in the Haro area
1:38:20understand what is called
1:38:22climate-resilient agriculture and to
1:38:24adopt resilient practices. This is
1:38:27currently being done. If microfinance
1:38:31institutions start getting involved,
1:38:34well, of course, people confuse the
1:38:36agriculture we ask people to practice
1:38:39with industrial agriculture to some
1:38:42extent. Agriculture is modernized, but
1:38:45it is not yet industrial agriculture to
1:38:47a certain extent as well. And so we
1:38:50will have to distinguish between the
1:38:51two. We are always available and
1:38:53willing to support all producers. This
1:38:56is what we had already started doing
1:38:58two or three years before Naba was set
1:39:00up, and we are always ready to do the
1:39:02same whenever the need arises. So there
1:39:04is no need to worry; if we ask "can we
1:39:07make it?", you will make it, and we
1:39:10will make it, as long as we don't end
1:39:11up dragging a lot of illnesses around
1:39:13soon. That is the problem.
1:39:15>> Unfortunately. Thank you very much, Mr.
1:39:17Gado. The question about the
1:39:19availability of your services within
1:39:21the country.
1:39:22>> Thank you very much. Uh, I think I said
1:39:26it, uh, in the first panel: we are in
1:39:29Lomé, we are in Takwamé, we are in
1:39:32Kara, meaning the processing units are
1:39:36in those three regions. Now, uh, we
1:39:41have a branch in Vogan. So there, it's
1:39:44really about collection with the town
1:39:46hall. We are doing waste collection
1:39:49directly there. There are centers that
1:39:52are currently being created in their
1:39:54entirety. We created a center there
1:39:58that will be operational by next year.
1:40:02So, we have built it, we are finished,
1:40:04and it just remains to be implemented.
1:40:07So there you go. There you go. Now, a
1:40:10word on a certain number of aspects and
1:40:12questions: agroecology, its practice,
1:40:15and especially what we are leaving our
1:40:17children in this area if there is fear
1:40:19today? No, we are children of farmers,
1:40:24and I think that most of those in the
1:40:27room had parents and grandparents who
1:40:30lived in the village. You have seen
1:40:34that, even though they practiced
1:40:36agriculture, went to the fields, and
1:40:38did hard labor, You see how long they
1:40:41lived before passing away. But today,
1:40:45for us who are somewhat in urban areas,
1:40:48you can see our life expectancy. At 50,
1:40:53we start developing terrible diseases,
1:40:57cancers, and so on, and as he just said
1:41:00, everything they send us from abroad
1:41:03is extraordinary. Do you realize that
1:41:09people export organic products from
1:41:13here in Togo to send to the United
1:41:16States, to France, to Great Britain, to
1:41:20...We export organic products, what we
1:41:25call organic goods and so on, we export
1:41:29from Togo to Europe, from Africa to
1:41:33Europe. Meanwhile, what are they
1:41:35sending us? Pasta. Pasta. But how do
1:41:40they produce that pasta? And he just
1:41:43said it, we travel everywhere. When you
1:41:47arrive in Europe, you won't see people
1:41:50there going into shops to buy pasta.
1:41:55You will see supermarkets with organic
1:41:58products. I went to Switzerland and we
1:42:04often go to Germany. I was in Zurich.
1:42:09We go to Germany to buy products to
1:42:12bring back, and when you enter the
1:42:15supermarket, it's as vast as this place
1:42:19and you have sections with fresh food
1:42:22mainly coming from Africa. Yes. And
1:42:30everything that enters the supermarket
1:42:32is checked to ensure that it really is
1:42:35organic produce entering. And that is
1:42:38where we get our supplies. But
1:42:41everything they send us here in Africa,
1:42:44it's diseases. And today, we aren't
1:42:48saying that Togo or Africa shouldn't
1:42:50practice industrial agriculture. Let's
1:42:56have industrial agriculture, let's
1:42:59develop everything they've developed on
1:43:02the other side, livestock and the like,
1:43:05to truly do animal production as it
1:43:08should be, but let's not use the
1:43:11practices they use over there to kill
1:43:14us. Let's practice agroecology to eat,
1:43:22to consume. And I tell you that if we
1:43:25practice agroecology, you will realize
1:43:27that we will serve our country here and
1:43:30people will come from abroad to buy it,
1:43:32and it will be even more expensive if
1:43:35you produce it. If you are truly
1:43:38certified organic, you will sell your
1:43:39products at a high price, it's
1:43:41incomparable. You will struggle to
1:43:43cultivate, but you will sell it for a
1:43:44very, very high price. So don't get
1:43:46discouraged. While you are speaking,
1:43:48this question quickly before going to
1:43:50Mr. Azou is finished. The person says,
1:43:53"The population is growing, we don't
1:43:56have enough food, that's why we use
1:43:58chemical products for agriculture, and
1:44:00farmers are not supported by the
1:44:02government." We depend on the West,
1:44:07they send us whatever they want, and we
1:44:09get sick. What must we do, Mr. Gado?
1:44:12Yes. Well, I think what we need to do,
1:44:14the person has already identified the
1:44:17keys, right? He said here, even though
1:44:20they make chemical products and all
1:44:21that, which they send here, the State
1:44:23supports them. So, we will need to
1:44:27review our economic model in our
1:44:29countries; yes, our economic model, it
1:44:31is very important to really allow young
1:44:34people, that is to say, to better guide
1:44:36them and put the necessary means in
1:44:39place to support them. If elsewhere
1:44:42today they even provide machines,
1:44:45tractors, and all that to support
1:44:48farmers in their crops and provide
1:44:52seeds to assist in production, I think
1:44:55that in Togo too, we can move in that
1:44:58direction to truly support the actors,
1:45:02whether in production, marketing, or
1:45:05processing. It is only through these
1:45:09paths that we will be able to get by. I
1:45:13know that Togo has had some
1:45:15agricultural programs in the past whose
1:45:18results may have been a bit mixed,
1:45:20otherwise people wouldn't be struggling
1:45:23so much today.
1:45:25>> That's it. So, these programs must be
1:45:29strengthened, and intervention
1:45:31strategies must be changed to provide
1:45:34much more support to young people
1:45:37because they are leaving the farms
1:45:40today. When you go to the farms today,
1:45:44you won't see young people; they leave
1:45:47and migrate to urban areas to do odd
1:45:51jobs and other activities. And the
1:45:54elderly are left in the villages,
1:45:56unable to go to the fields anymore.
1:46:00Particularly toward the savannah, you
1:46:02won't find a single young person left.
1:46:05It's "Galamsé." Do you know "Galamsé"
1:46:08? Searching for gold. They go to Ghana,
1:46:14they go to Mali, they go to Côte
1:46:17d'Ivoire to look for gold in extremely
1:46:21difficult areas. You won't find any
1:46:24young people. Even for me here, my
1:46:27brothers have lost all their
1:46:28grandchildren, their young ones. They
1:46:31have left. And there are even some—I
1:46:36have a brother who is a driver who even
1:46:38gave his truck to his son to work. But
1:46:41when he saw one of his friends go there
1:46:43and come back having built a house. He,
1:46:46too, abandoned the wheel and left. So
1:46:49today, you will no longer find young
1:46:52people in the villages. So because
1:46:54there isn't really any guidance, there
1:46:57isn't really any accompaniment, there
1:46:59isn't really any support to allow young
1:47:01people to stay in their community and
1:47:03work.
1:47:03>> All right.
1:47:04>> The land is no longer being worked in
1:47:05Togo.
1:47:06>> In Togo,
1:47:06>> Mr. Zano, we've said a lot of things.
1:47:10Uh, you have some pending questions,
1:47:12along with everything Mr. Gado added.
1:47:15I'm adding two questions for you to
1:47:16cover along with all that. In 3 minutes
1:47:19, what is the government doing
1:47:21regarding the import of chemical
1:47:23products? Does Togo have an operational
1:47:27legal arsenal to deter environmental
1:47:30delinquents? That is what is written.
1:47:32So, brush over all the pending
1:47:34questions and these two questions to
1:47:36finish up. The question is, uh, the
1:47:41pending questions. I think you want to
1:47:44answer those in a moment before I take
1:47:45the microphone back. But the question
1:47:49here is: does Togo have an operational
1:47:51legal arsenal that deters environmental
1:47:54delinquents? Yes. Which needs to be
1:48:01defined.
1:48:01>> It is the concept of environmental
1:48:03delinquent now that needs to be defined
1:48:04.
1:48:04>> And those who infringe on environmental
1:48:07rules.
1:48:07>> Environmental.
1:48:08>> OK.
1:48:09>> Or regarding importers of chemical
1:48:12products.
1:48:12>> Yes.
1:48:14>> We know, we do have, it is true, tests
1:48:16that regulate these chemical products.
1:48:19I'll take the example of, let's call
1:48:21them inputs, uh, what do you call them?
1:48:24>> Fertilizer.
1:48:26>> Not just fertilizers, but herbicides.
1:48:29>> Or pesticides, let's call them
1:48:32insecticides.
1:48:33>> Chemical inputs.
1:48:34>> Chemical inputs, all of that.
1:48:37>> We have tests that regulate all of that
1:48:39to verify if these inputs meet the
1:48:41standards.
1:48:43>> Yes. And in this matter, we have at the
1:48:45ministry of agriculture, the ministry
1:48:47of...
1:48:48>> Speak into the microphone.
1:48:50>> The ministry of the environment is also
1:48:51part of these approval committees;
1:48:53there are approval committees to be
1:48:54able to verify if these inputs really
1:48:56meet the standards before certifying
1:48:58them to allow them to enter the country
1:49:00.
1:49:01>> That's what I can say.
1:49:02>> So there are regulations.
1:49:04>> Now, those who do not respect these
1:49:06regulations, I think,
1:49:08>> are often really exposed to sanctions.
1:49:11>> OK. Uh, I would perhaps like, uh, there
1:49:15was a question in su...
1:49:17>> Yes,
1:49:19>> he had asked the question of why after
1:49:22>> 60 years of independence we speak of
1:49:24poor countries. Yes.
1:49:25>> Well, I think this question is not for
1:49:28Mr. Jancou to resolve. Yes. The
1:49:32qualification of countries on what you
1:49:34call the classification of countries in
1:49:36terms of development and regarding the
1:49:37criteria, we base it on economic
1:49:39criteria.
1:49:40>> Yes.
1:49:42>> Only economists here can help you to
1:49:44tell us why Togo is currently qualified
1:49:46as a country. But
1:49:48>> Mr. Azanco, I I can understand his
1:49:50question, to tease you a bit. I mean,
1:49:54in my village, I have my grandfather, I
1:49:56have my father who lives well, who
1:49:58doesn't need 2 dollars a day, but who
1:50:00lives well, and for someone else to
1:50:02come and tell him: "Because you don't
1:50:05have 2 dollars, you are poor." Should I
1:50:07repeat that? In any case, I think there
1:50:10are
1:50:11>> there are economic criteria, as I say.
1:50:15We talk about a development index or
1:50:17human index or something like that.
1:50:19>> It's in relation to that. And if you at
1:50:21the state level have accepted it, and
1:50:23internationally, you can agree that it
1:50:25is defined.
1:50:26>> Yeah.
1:50:27>> Okay. That's what I can say. I'm also
1:50:29coming back to tease Mr. G
1:50:31>> Mr. B on the question of
1:50:34>> the definition of agroecology. Hm.
1:50:37Speaking of agroecology, he mentioned
1:50:40supporting actors with tractors to be
1:50:43able to cultivate surfaces. And I'm
1:50:47going to tell him that, if we have to
1:50:49stick to the strict definition of
1:50:51agroecology, agriculture that uses
1:50:54tractors does not meet the standards of
1:50:56agroecology, especially since these
1:50:59tractors use fossil fuels to work the
1:51:01soil. So that is not part of it if we
1:51:04want to move toward true agroecology.
1:51:07>> All right. Thank you very much. Uh
1:51:09unfortunately time is against us. I
1:51:12will return to Mr. Mozou's concern, and
1:51:16it will serve as final words. Would you
1:51:19like to give your contact information?
1:51:22I'll go around and I'll start with you.
1:51:26Mr. Kouassé,
1:51:27>> thank you very much. My contact
1:51:29>> yes,
1:51:30>> it's 98 30. 90 91.
1:51:36>> Thank you very much. He says it's a bit
1:51:37fast, say it again.
1:51:38>> 98, West Africa meal break. Please join
1:51:43me in thanking our panelists with a
1:51:46round of applause. Thank you to each of
1:51:51them for their contributions. It is
1:51:531:28 PM, we are now heading for the
1:51:57break. The next panel starts at 2:30 PM
1:51:59. Enjoy your meal, everyone, and let's
1:52:03be back on time for the next panel. See
1:52:06you soon. Thank you very much.

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