YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → G. EDWARD GRIFFIN INTERVIEWS YURI BEZMENOV (1984)

G. EDWARD GRIFFIN INTERVIEWS YURI BEZMENOV (1984) — Transcript

by FraziorONE · 11,767 words · 2,094 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:13foreign
0:19my father was he is on the left here my
0:22father was officer of the general staff
0:24of the soviet army he was inspector of
0:26land forces soviet troops stationed in
0:29countries like mongolia cuba east
0:32european countries
0:33this is the picture taken at the
0:35entrance of my institute of oriental
0:38languages it's a part of moscow state
0:40university as every soviet student i was
0:43quote unquote volunteering for
0:45harvesting grain in kazakhstan
0:48by the end of my training in school i
0:50was recruited by the kgb this picture
0:52was taken on that day and you can see
0:54again how happy it feels to be recruited
0:57by the kgb
0:58pay special attention to number of
1:00bottles on the table one of my functions
1:02was to keep foreign guests permanently
1:05intoxicated the moment they land at
1:07moscow airport
1:09in 1967 the kgb attached me to this
1:12magazine look magazine a group of 12
1:15people arrived to ussr from united
1:17states to cover the 50th anniversary of
1:20october socialist revolution in my
1:22country
1:23from the first page to the last page it
1:25was a package of lies
1:27[Music]
1:44[Music]
1:46our conversation is with mr yuri
1:48alexandrovich besmianoff mr besmianov
1:52was born in 1939 in a suburb of moscow
1:56he was the son of a high-ranking soviet
1:58army officer
2:00he was educated in the elite schools
2:02inside the soviet union and became an
2:04expert in indian culture and indian
2:06languages
2:08he had an outstanding career with
2:10novesti which was the pr and still is i
2:12should say the press
2:14arm or the press agency of the soviet
2:16union it turns out that this is also a
2:18front for the kgb
2:20one of his interesting assignments was
2:22to brainwash foreign diplomats when they
2:25visited moscow
2:26and he'll tell us a little bit about how
2:29they did this and how they planted
2:30information which eventually wound up in
2:33the press of the free world
2:36he escaped to the west in 1970 after
2:38becoming totally disgusted with the
2:40soviet system and he did this at great
2:42risk to his life
2:44he certainly is one of the world's
2:45outstanding experts on the subject of
2:47soviet propaganda and disinformation and
2:50active measures
2:52mr besmianov i'd like to begin by having
2:54you tell us a little bit about some of
2:55your childhood memories
2:57well the most vivid memory of my
2:59childhood was second world war
3:02or to be more precise the end of the
3:04second world war when all of a sudden
3:06united states from a friendly
3:08uh
3:09nation
3:10which helped us to defeat nazism turned
3:14overnight into a deadly enemy
3:17and it was very shocking because
3:19all newspapers were trying to present an
3:22image of belligerent aggressive american
3:24imperialism most of the things that we
3:27were taught is that united states is
3:29aggressive power which is just about to
3:32invade our beautiful free socialist
3:35country
3:36that american cia is dropping colorado
3:39beetles on our beautiful potato fields
3:42to eliminate our crops
3:44and each schoolboy had a a picture of
3:47colorado bug on the on the back page of
3:49his notebook
3:51and we were instructed to go into
3:53collective fields to search for those
3:55little colorado bugs of course we
3:57couldn't find any neither we could find
3:59many potatoes
4:01and that was explained again by the
4:03encroachments of the decadent
4:05imperialist power
4:07um the anti-american paranoia hysteria
4:11in in the soviet propaganda was to such
4:13an
4:14uh of such a higher degree
4:16that many less skeptical people or less
4:20stubborn would really believe that
4:22united states is just about to invade
4:24our beautiful motherland and some
4:27secretly hope that it will come true
4:30that's interesting yes well getting back
4:32to uh life inside the soviet union or
4:35inside communist countries in general
4:38in this country
4:41at the university level primarily we
4:43read and hear that uh the soviet system
4:46is different from ours but not that
4:48different and that there is a
4:49convergence
4:51developing between all of the systems of
4:53the world and that really doesn't make
4:55an awful lot of difference what system
4:56you live under because you have
4:57corruption and dishonesty and tyranny
5:00and all that sort of thing from your
5:02personal experience what is the
5:03difference between life under communism
5:05and life in the united states
5:07well life is obviously very much
5:09different for simple reason that
5:12the soviet union
5:13is a state capitalist economically it's
5:17a state capitalism where an individual
5:19has absolutely no rights no value his
5:22life is nothing it's just like an insect
5:25he's disposable whereby in the united
5:27states even the even the worst criminal
5:30is treated as a human being he has a
5:32fair trial and some of them capitalize
5:35on their crimes they they publish their
5:36memoirs in their prisons
5:39and
5:40get handsomely paid by your crazy
5:42publishers
5:44the
5:45differences of course in the daily life
5:48are very various
5:51depending on who whom we are talking
5:53about
5:54in my own private life i never suffered
5:56from communism simply because i was
5:58brought up in the family of high ranking
6:00military officer
6:02most of the doors were open for me
6:04most of my expenses were paid by the
6:06government and i never had any troubles
6:09in with the authorities or with the
6:11police
6:12so in other words i i would say i i
6:15enjoyed
6:16or i had good reasons to enjoy all the
6:18advantages of so-called socialist
6:21system
6:23my main motivations to defect was had
6:26nothing to do with affluence it was
6:28mainly moral indignation moral protest
6:32rebellion against the inhuman methods of
6:35of the soviet system
6:37well specifically what did you object to
6:40i objected first of all
6:42against oppression of my own dissidents
6:45and intellectuals
6:47and that was the most disgusting thing
6:49that that i witnessed as a as a young
6:52man young student who was brought up
6:55a very troublesome period in our history
6:57from stalin to khrushchev from total
7:00tyranny and oppression to some kind of
7:03liberalization
7:05second when i started working for the
7:07soviet embassy in india
7:10i to my horror i discovered that we are
7:13millions times more oppressive than any
7:16colonial or imperialist power in the
7:18history of mankind
7:20that my country brings to india not
7:23freedom progress and friendship between
7:25the nations
7:26but
7:28racism exploitation and slavery
7:31and and of course economical
7:33inefficiency to this country since i
7:35fell in love with india i i developed
7:38something which by kgb standards is
7:40extremely dangerous thing it's called
7:42split loyalty when an agent likes a
7:44country of assignment more than his own
7:46country i literally fell in love with
7:49this beautiful country a country of
7:51great contrasts but also great humility
7:54great tolerance and and
7:56philosophical and intellectual freedoms
7:59my ancestors used to live in caves and
8:01eat raw meat when india was highly
8:03civilized nation six thousand years ago
8:06so obviously the choice was
8:09not to the advantage of my own nation i
8:11decided to defect
8:12and to entirely dissociate myself from
8:16that brutal regime
8:17mr besmianov we've read a lot about the
8:21concentration camps and the slave labor
8:23camps under the stalin regime
8:25now the general impression in america is
8:27that those things are part of the past
8:30are they still going on today or what is
8:31the status yes
8:34there is no
8:36qualitative change in the soviet
8:38concentration camp system
8:41there are changes in in numbers of
8:43prisoners
8:44again this is
8:47unreliable soviet statistics we don't
8:50know how many political prisoners are
8:52there in the soviet concentration camps
8:54but we sure know
8:56from from various sources that at each
8:59particular time there are close to
9:0225 to 30 million of soviet citizens who
9:06are
9:07virtually kept as slaves in forced labor
9:09camp system
9:11the size of a population of
9:14uh country like canada is serving terms
9:17as prisoners incredible so um i would
9:22say that
9:23those intellectuals who try to convince
9:27american public that
9:28concentration camp system is a thing of
9:31a past
9:32are either conscientiously misleading
9:36public opinion
9:38or they are not in very intellectual
9:41people they they're selectively blind
9:44they don't they lack
9:46um intellectual honesty when they say
9:49that
9:50well we've spoken about the
9:51intellectuals in this country and also
9:53the intellectuals in the soviet union
9:56what about down
9:58at the broad
9:59mass level
10:00do the people in general the worker and
10:03the working people the workers in
10:04general and the soviet union do they
10:06support the system do they tolerate it
10:08what is their attitude
10:10well average soviet citizen if there is
10:12such an animal of course
10:14does not like the system because it
10:17hurts it kills
10:19he may not understand the the reasons he
10:22may not have enough information or or
10:25educational background to understand
10:28but i doubt very much there are many
10:32people who are
10:34uh
10:35conscientiously supporting the soviet
10:37system that are not such
10:39such people in ussr even those who have
10:42all the reasons to enjoy socialism
10:44people like myself were a member of
10:46journalistic elite
10:48they they also hate system for for
10:51different reasons though not because
10:53they lack material affluence but because
10:55they are unfree to think they're in
10:57constant fear duplicity split
11:00personality and this is the greatest
11:02tragedy for my nation well what do you
11:04think are the chances of the people
11:07actually overcoming their system or
11:09replacing it
11:11there is a great possibility that system
11:14will sooner or later
11:16be destroyed from within there is a
11:18self-destructive mechanism built in into
11:21any socialist or communist or fascist
11:24system
11:25because there is lack of feedback
11:27because the system does not rely upon
11:29loyalty of population
11:32but until and until this
11:34soviet junta is being supported
11:37by the western so-called imperialists
11:40that is
11:41multinational companies establishments
11:44governments
11:46and let's face it intellectuals
11:49so-called academia in the united states
11:51is famous for supporting the soviet
11:53system
11:55as long as the soviet junta will keep on
11:58receiving credits
12:00money technology grain deals and
12:03political recognition from all these
12:05traitors of democracy or freedom
12:08there is no hope there is not much hope
12:11for
12:12for changes in my country
12:15and the system
12:17will not collapse by itself simply
12:19because it's being nourished
12:21by so-called american imperialism this
12:24is the greatest
12:25paradox in history of mankind when
12:28a capitalist world
12:31supports and actively nourishes
12:34its own destruct destroyer destructor
12:38i think you're trying to tell us
12:39something oh yes
12:41i'm trying to tell you that it has to be
12:44stopped unless you want to end up in
12:46gulag system and enjoy all the
12:48advantages of socialist
12:50equality uh
12:53working for free
12:54catching fleas on your body
12:56sleeping on on
12:58planks of
13:00plywood in in alaska this time i guess
13:04that's where americans will belong
13:06unless they will wake up of course and
13:08force their government to stop aiding
13:10soviet fascism
13:14well you told us a moment ago why you
13:16left the system
13:18i'd like to hear the details of how you
13:20did it it must have been a very
13:21dangerous thing
13:23it was not so dangerous it was crazy
13:26first of all because defecting in india
13:29is virtually impossible
13:31thanks to very strong pressure from the
13:33soviet government excuse me you were in
13:35india on assignment yes i was working
13:37for the soviet embassy in new delhi as a
13:40press officer
13:42and
13:43uh defecting
13:44for a soviet diplomat is next to
13:47impossible it's a suicide as i said
13:49because
13:50a great friend indira gandhi
13:53pushed a law through parliament which
13:55says and i quote
13:57no defector from any country has a right
14:00of political asylum in any embassy on
14:02the territory of indian republic
14:05which is a masterpiece of hypocrisy no
14:07other defector but the soviet one needs
14:09a political asylum
14:12so knowing that perfectly well
14:14i i planned a craziest possible way to
14:19defect i studied counter culture in
14:22india
14:23there are there were thousands of young
14:25american boys and girls
14:28with no shoes long hair
14:30smoking hush and marijuana studying
14:33sometimes
14:35indian philosophy sometimes simply
14:37pretending that they study
14:40and they greatly annoyed indian police
14:42and they were laughing stock of indians
14:45because obviously
14:46they were good for nothing students
14:49i studied carefully where they
14:51congregate what routes they travel what
14:54language they speak what do they smoke
14:56and one day i simply joined a group of
14:59hippies to avoid detection of indian
15:01police
15:03i was dressed as a typical hippie with
15:06blue jeans
15:07long cummies shirts with all kind of
15:10nice
15:11decorations like beads long hairs
15:15i i bought a wig because for several
15:17weeks i had to turn myself from a
15:19conservative soviet diplomat
15:21into a very progressive american hippie
15:25and that was the only way that that i
15:27could
15:28avoid detection
15:31it was very interesting experience
15:34but it was necessary because
15:36um from my own knowledge as a member of
15:40soviet embassy staff
15:42i knew that
15:43there were many cases when soviet
15:44defectors were betrayed by
15:47indian police
15:48and also some western embassies
15:51played a very dirty role in betraying
15:54the soviet defectors according to our
15:57information
15:58they were some i wouldn't call them
16:00double agents but simply
16:02a moral
16:03people working for this for the united
16:06states embassy and confining in people
16:10like this would be a suicide
16:12so i had to be extremely careful i could
16:14not trust anyone
16:17uh and that was the
16:19that was the reason for such a crazy way
16:21to defect well had you been
16:23caught
16:24in the act of trying to get out what
16:26would have happened to you oh uh most
16:29likely i would i end up in in
16:31concentration camp
16:34or depending on the situation and on the
16:38on the whim of some bureaucrat and kgb
16:41or maybe even executed that this is
16:43normal practice quietly of course not
16:46publicly
16:48but that would be the end of my
16:49defection of course
16:51well when did you finally make it to the
16:52united states
16:54uh
16:55in 1970 after about
16:58six months of debriefing in athens by
17:01the cia
17:03and i presume fbi too
17:05they let me go first to germany then to
17:08canada that was my decision i had to
17:11change my identity to protect my family
17:14and my friends in ussr
17:17and also i was little bit paranoid
17:21knowing that both soviet kgb and
17:24probably some double agents within the
17:26american system may be after me so i
17:29wanted to settle down as far away as
17:31possible
17:33i requested cia to give me some kind of
17:36new identity and just let me go
17:40on my own and i settled in canada i was
17:43a student
17:45i
17:46changed many professions from
17:49farm help and and laundry truck driver
17:52to
17:53instruct language instructor and
17:56broadcaster for canadian broadcasting
17:58corporations in montreal
18:00well have you had any threats on your
18:02life or any uh yes unpleasant uh in
18:05about five years kgb eventually
18:07discovered that i'm working for canadian
18:09broadcasting
18:10uh see i made a very big mistake i
18:12started talk i started working for
18:15overseas service of cbc which is similar
18:18to voice of america
18:21in russian language and of course
18:23monitoring service in ussr picked up
18:26every new voice
18:29every new announcer would they would
18:31make it a point to discover who he is
18:34and in five years sure enough slowly but
18:36surely they discovered that i am not
18:38thomas schuman that i am yuri
18:40alexandrovich bismianov and the time
18:42working for canadian broadcasting and
18:45undermining beautiful the town between
18:47canada and ussr
18:49and the soviet ambassador alexander
18:52yakovlev
18:53made it his personal effort to discredit
18:56me he complained to pierre trudeau who
18:59is known to be a little bit soft on
19:01socialism
19:03and
19:05the management of cbc
19:07behaved in a very strange
19:11cowardly way unbecoming to
19:13representatives of a independent country
19:15like canada
19:17they listened to every suggestion that
19:20soviet ambassador gave
19:22and they started
19:24shameful investigation
19:26analyzing content of my broadcasts to
19:29ussr
19:30sure enough they discovered that some of
19:32my
19:33statements were probably to
19:35um
19:37would be offending to the soviet
19:39politburo
19:41so i had to to leave my my job
19:44and of course subtle intimidations they
19:46would
19:46say something like please cross the
19:49street carefully because you know
19:50traffic is very heavy in quebec
19:53and
19:55fortunately i know about the psychology
19:58and and the logic of activity of the kgb
20:01and i never allowed myself to be
20:02intimidated
20:04this is the worst thing this is what
20:05they expect a person a defector to be
20:08intimidated once they spot that that you
20:10are scared they keep on developing that
20:13line
20:14and then uh
20:16eventually you either have to give up
20:18entirely and and and work for them or
20:22you they neutralize you they they would
20:25definitely
20:26stop all kind of political activity
20:28which they failed to do in my case
20:31because i was stubbornly working for the
20:33canadian broadcasting
20:35and
20:36in response to their intimidations i
20:38said that look this is a free country
20:40and i am as free as you are and i also
20:43can drive very fast
20:45and
20:45gun control is not yet established in
20:47canada so i had a couple of good
20:49shotguns in my basement
20:52so welcome to visit me someday
20:55with your kalashnikov's machine guns so
20:58obviously it didn't work intimidation
21:00didn't work so they they tried different
21:03approach as i described they approached
21:06on the highest level on the level of
21:08canadian bureaucracy
21:11and that level they were on that level
21:13they were successful on individual level
21:15they failed flat
21:18mr besmienoff has brought a series of
21:20slides with him that he has taken from
21:22the soviet union and i think this is a
21:24good time to
21:26take a look at the slides now the
21:27viewers will be able to see these slides
21:29as we talk about them yes this is a
21:32collection of slides which are
21:34some of them are
21:36snapshots from my family album some of
21:39them are documents which i smuggled from
21:40the soviet embassy and some are
21:42reproductions from local mass media i
21:45usually show them to establish my
21:47credibility
21:48as a de facto this is a picture of my
21:50native town metish about 20 miles north
21:53from moscow
21:54uh characteristically there's a statue
21:56of comrade lenin in the central square
22:01this is myself at the age of seven
22:03again characteristically on the statue
22:06of comrade stalin extending his friendly
22:08hand to
22:09peoples of the world
22:11at that age of course
22:13i was still idealistically minded young
22:16communist
22:17and
22:18i still believe that sooner or later
22:20things will go for better
22:22but i realized that the system stinks
22:25that something is fishy and that
22:27ideology is is fake
22:30and the propaganda about
22:32advanced soviet agriculture simply
22:34didn't meet the criteria of reality if
22:37they talk about abundance of food and
22:39there's none in the stores there must be
22:41something wrong
22:43um my father was he is on the left here
22:46my father was
22:47um
22:49officer of the general staff of the
22:50soviet army he was inspector of land
22:53forces soviet troops stationed in
22:55countries like mongolia cuba
22:58east european countries were he alive
23:01today most likely he would be inspecting
23:03soviet troops in nicaragua angola and
23:06many other parts of the world
23:08fortunately he died and he didn't see
23:10the disgrace because deep inside he was
23:13a russian patriot he didn't he didn't
23:16like the idea of expanding soviet
23:18military might especially in the areas
23:20where we were not welcomed at all
23:23unlike many other military officers he
23:25was reporting directly to the minister
23:27of defense
23:28bypassing kgb and diplomatic service in
23:31other words he was a trusted military
23:33professional and my impression that this
23:36type of people are much less hawkish and
23:39adventuristic than party bureaucrats in
23:42kremlin
23:43when american mass media describes
23:45soviet military as potentially dangerous
23:48counterpart for pentagon
23:50i simply laugh because i know better i
23:53know that the most dangerous part of the
23:56soviet power structures are not military
23:58at all
24:00most likely if they come to power in my
24:02country they'll be more sensible
24:03negotiators for nuclear disarmament
24:06and withdrawal of the soviet troops from
24:08many parts of the world but if someone
24:10from the party structure or the kgb
24:13structure were to give the orders for
24:15military they have to obey these
24:20you see the triangle of power and hate
24:22in ussr is the party at the top
24:25the party elite the oligarchy of the
24:26party then the military and the kgb at
24:29the bottom
24:30they hate each other
24:32and the the most hated triangle uh the
24:35most hated corner of the triangle is the
24:37communist party bureaucrats
24:40they are the most adventuristic senile
24:42megalomaniacs they can start war i
24:45wouldn't be surprised not the military
24:47they know what war is yes at least my
24:50father did this is the picture taken at
24:52the at the entrance of my institute of
24:55oriental languages it's a part of moscow
24:57state university
24:59i uh graduated in 1963
25:02and i just excuse me which one were you
25:04on i am on the right you're on the right
25:06and on the left is my uh call my
25:09schoolmate vadim smirnov who later was a
25:12parachute in the central committee of
25:14the
25:14soviet union communist party what is an
25:17apparatchik it's it's a it's a function
25:19it's something like civil service in
25:21british empire
25:23some someone who is never fired from
25:25from the service he stays there
25:27internally he may not be promoted to
25:29high but he is a dependable
25:31bureaucrat who will stay forever
25:35i started not only languages but also
25:38history literature even music i'm
25:41on this picture i'm trying to learn how
25:43to play musical in uh indian musical
25:45instrument
25:47i even tried to look like an indian when
25:49i was second years too it's not bad
25:50right uh yes and actually it was
25:53strongly encouraged by the by the
25:55instructors in my school because
25:59these the graduates of my school were
26:01later on employed as diplomats foreign
26:04journalists or spies
26:08as every soviet student i was quote
26:10unquote volunteering for harvesting
26:13grain in kazakhstan
26:15this is a biggest
26:18agricultural blunder of the soviet
26:20government
26:22but i didn't have much choice of course
26:24because the communist motto borrowed
26:26from the bible says those who do not
26:28work
26:29shall not eat and you can see me eating
26:31therefore i was working and you can see
26:33how happy i was about it
26:36i went through a very extensive physical
26:38and military training
26:40uh including the manure
26:42including the
26:44military games in in
26:47areas
26:49suburban areas of moscow
26:51and here for example we are on the tour
26:53in arkhangelsk area
26:55and by the end of my training in school
26:57i was recruited by the kgb this picture
26:59was taken on that day and you can see
27:01again how happy it feels to be recruited
27:04by the kgb
27:06our conversation with yuri alexandrovich
27:08besmianov who is a defector from the
27:10soviet union a former propaganda agent
27:13for navasti and the kgb
27:16will continue after this message
27:22[Music]
27:38[Music]
27:40all right as every student in ussr i i
27:44went through very extensive physical and
27:47military training
27:48and civil defense training too unlike in
27:51united states where civil defense is
27:54virtually non-existent zero
27:56in ussr every student whatever is major
28:00subject has to go through very extensive
28:02four-year military and civil defense
28:04training you can see me here with a
28:06group of students during one of the war
28:08games in near moscow
28:12the main idea of course is to prepare a
28:16huge reserve army of of the ussr each
28:21student has to to graduate as a junior
28:23lieutenant in my case it was
28:25administrative and military intelligence
28:28service
28:29my first assignment was to india as a
28:32translator with the soviet economical
28:34aid group building refinery complexes in
28:37bihar state and gujarat state at that
28:40time i was still naively
28:42idealistically believing that what i was
28:44doing contributes to the understanding
28:47and cooperation between the nations
28:50uh it took me quite a number of years to
28:52realize that what we were bringing to
28:54india was a new type of
28:56colonialism thousand times more
28:59oppressive and exploitative than any
29:02colonialism or imperialism in history of
29:05mankind
29:06but at that time i was still hoping that
29:09well maybe it's not that bad could be
29:11worse and things may go for better
29:14and i even tried to
29:16implement the beautiful marxist motor
29:18proletarians of all the countries unite
29:21i tried to unite with the nice indian
29:23girl
29:24and i was
29:25actually i was fascinated by indian
29:27culture by by the family life in in this
29:29country
29:30but obviously communist party had
29:32different plans for my genes so i had to
29:34marry this beautiful russian girl
29:37in the span of my career i married three
29:40times most of these marriages were
29:42marriages of convenience on advice from
29:45the department of personnel this is
29:47normal practice in ussr when a soviet
29:49citizen is assigned to a foreign job
29:52he has to be married either to keep
29:55family in ussr as hostages or if it's a
29:58convenience marriage like mine
30:01uh so that the husband and wife are
30:03virtually informers on each other to
30:05prevent defection or contamination by
30:09decadent imperialist or capitalist ideas
30:12in my case i hated that girl so much
30:14that the moment i landed in moscow we
30:17we were divorced and i
30:20i married later second time by the end
30:23of my first assignment in india
30:25i was promoted to the position of public
30:28relation officer you can see me here
30:30translating a speech by a soviet boss
30:34and you're on the right i'm on the right
30:35here yes and it was the occasion was
30:38commissioning of the refinery complex in
30:40bihar barrani
30:43uh back in moscow i was immediately
30:45recruited by novosti press agency which
30:48is a propaganda and ideological
30:50subversion front for the kgb
30:5375 percent of the members of the novosti
30:56are commissioned officers of the kgb the
30:59other 25 are like myself co-opted agents
31:02who are assigned to specific
31:04operations in this particular case you
31:07can see me talking to students of
31:09lumumba friendship university in moscow
31:11um this is the you know
31:14a huge school under the
31:16direct control of the kgb and central
31:18committee
31:20where future leaders of the so-called
31:22national liberation movements are being
31:24educated
31:25and selected carefully
31:27and some of them have absolutely they
31:30neither this for example is a group of
31:32students from lumumba they don't look
31:33like students at all they look more like
31:35military and that's exactly what they
31:37were they were dispatched back to their
31:39countries to be leaders of the
31:41so-called national liberation movements
31:43or to be translated into normal human
31:45language
31:46leaders of
31:48international terrorist groups
31:51another uh
31:53area of activity when i was working for
31:55the nova sc was to accompany groups of
31:58so-called progressive intellectuals
32:00writers journalists publishers
32:04teachers professors of of colleges
32:08you can see me here in kremlin i'm
32:10second on the left with a group of
32:12pakistani and indian intellectuals
32:16most of them pretended they don't
32:17understand that
32:19we are actually working on behalf of the
32:21soviet government and the kgb
32:24they pretended that they are actually
32:26being guests a vip intellectuals that
32:29they are treated according to their
32:31merits and and their intellectual
32:33abilities
32:34for us they were just a bunch of
32:36political prostitutes to be taken
32:39advantage for various propaganda
32:40operations therefore you can see
32:43perfectly well
32:44the
32:45senior colleague of mine on the left
32:47doesn't really have that much respect on
32:49his face and myself with a very
32:52skeptical smile
32:54a typical kgb sarcastic smile
32:57anticipating another victim of
32:59ideological brainwashing
33:01this is how at a typical
33:04uh
33:05conference in novosti headquarters in
33:07moscow look likes
33:09sitting in the middle is boris burkhoff
33:12the then director of navy press agency
33:14high ranking party bureaucrat in the
33:17department of propaganda i am standing
33:19next to a famous indian poet sumitra
33:22nandan pant
33:24he was famous because he was an author
33:27he was the author of the famous poem
33:30titled rhapsody to lenin that's why he
33:33was invited to ussr
33:35and everything was paid by the soviet
33:37government
33:39the pay special attention to number of
33:41bottles on the table this is one of the
33:43ways to
33:44kill the awareness or curiosity of
33:48foreign journalists
33:50my one of my functions was to keep
33:52foreign guests
33:53permanently intoxicated the moment they
33:56land at moscow airport i had to take
33:58them to the vip launch and toast to
34:01friendship and understanding between the
34:03nations of the world class of vodka then
34:06the second glass of vodka and in no time
34:08my guests would be feeling very happy
34:10they would see everything in kind of
34:12pink
34:13nice color
34:14and that's the way i
34:17i had to keep them permanently for the
34:19next
34:2015 or 20 days
34:23at certain point in time i had to
34:24withdraw alcohol from them so that some
34:27of them who are the most recruitable
34:29would feel a little bit shaky guilty
34:31trying to remember what they were
34:32talking last night that's the time to
34:35approach them with all kind of nonsense
34:37such as joint communicate or statement
34:39for for soviet propaganda
34:42that's the time they are the most
34:43flexible
34:45and of course what they didn't
34:46understand they didn't realize or
34:48pretended not to realize that myself who
34:51was drinking together with them
34:53was not drinking at all i had ways to
34:55get rid of alcohol through various
34:58techniques including special pills which
35:00were given to me by my colleagues
35:03but they were taking it seriously in
35:05other words they they would consume
35:06quite a large volumes of alcohol and
35:09feel quite uneasy next morning
35:14in 1967 the kgb attached me to this
35:18magazine look magazine a group of 12
35:21people arrived to ussr from united
35:23states to cover the 50th anniversary of
35:26october socialist revolution in my
35:28country
35:29from the first page to the last page it
35:31was a package of lies
35:33propaganda cliche which were presented
35:36to american
35:37readers
35:38as opinions and deductions of american
35:41journalists
35:43nothing could be far from truth
35:45this were not opinions they were not
35:48opinions at all
35:49they were
35:50the cliches which
35:52the soviet propaganda wants american
35:54public to think that they think that if
35:58it
35:59does make any sense at all it sure does
36:02because from the viewpoint of the soviet
36:04propaganda although there are some
36:05subtle criticism of the soviet system
36:08the basic message is that russia today
36:11is a nice functioning
36:13efficient system supported by majority
36:15of population that's the biggest lie and
36:18of course american intellectuals and
36:20journalists from luke magazine
36:22elaborated on that untruth in various
36:24different ways they intellectualized
36:27that lie
36:28they found all kinds of justifications
36:32for telling lies to american public
36:37this is excuse me it was partly your job
36:39to make sure that they got these ideas
36:42and accepted them as their own ideas
36:44right actually even before they arrived
36:46to ussr and they paid astronomical sum
36:49of money for that visit
36:50uh
36:51they were submitted this novice press
36:54agency developed so-called backgrounders
36:5720-25 pages of information and opinions
37:00which were presented to the journalists
37:02even before they bought their tickets to
37:04moscow they had to analyze this
37:06situation and judging on their reaction
37:08to that background the local novice
37:11representative or local soviet diplomat
37:14in washington dc would assess whether
37:16they have whether they be given visa to
37:19ussr or not
37:21but they were selected oh yes they were
37:23they were pre-selected very carefully
37:25and there is not much chance for honest
37:27journalists to arrive to ussr
37:30and to stay there for one year and to
37:32bring this
37:33package of lies back home
37:35this for example is a center fold of the
37:37tie of the look magazine
37:39they presented this monument erected by
37:41communist party in stalingrad as the
37:44symbol personification of russian
37:46military might
37:48and they said in the article which is
37:51published on the side that soviets are
37:53very proud of the victory in the second
37:55world war this is another big myth a lie
37:59no sensible people would be proud to
38:01lose 20 millions of their countrymen in
38:03the war which was started by genocide
38:06hitler and comrade stalin and paid by
38:08american multinationals most of the
38:11soviet citizens look at this type of
38:13monuments with disgust and sorrow
38:15because every family lost father brother
38:18sister or child
38:20in the second world war
38:22yet american journalists who were trying
38:25to appease to please their hosts
38:28presented this picture on the centerfold
38:31as the symbol and personification of
38:33soviet national
38:35they call it russian national spirit
38:38and it was greatest
38:40greatest misconception and a very tragic
38:43misunderstanding
38:45of course look magazine was not
38:46distributed in ussr the main
38:50audience was in the united states
38:53but uh i presume that many americans
38:56millions of americans who were reading
38:58look magazine at that time
39:00had absolutely wrong idea about the
39:04sentiments of my nation about what the
39:07soviets are proud of and what they hate
39:10this is a group you see the same lady
39:12with the sword in stalingrad this is the
39:15group of journalists myself is in the
39:16center with the same devilish smile and
39:19mr philip harrington is on the extreme
39:22left there with with his camera
39:24this is the gentleman which was so
39:28deaf
39:29or so uninterested in what i had to say
39:32to him
39:34uh this is the same picture a blow up of
39:37the same of the same picture
39:40many many guests from various countries
39:43in this particular case from asia and
39:45africa were taken by me
39:48as a novice to press agency employee
39:50uh for a tour across siberia for example
39:53we would show them typical kindergarten
39:56you see nothing special by american
39:58standards
39:59just nice children sitting eating their
40:01breakfast or or lunch
40:04what they could not understand
40:07or they pretended not to understand that
40:09this is an exemplary kindergarten this
40:11is not the kindergarten for average
40:13person or average family in ussr
40:16and we maintain that illusion in their
40:19minds
40:20you can see myself under the red spot in
40:22the middle there with the same
40:24business-like expression
40:26i'm on you know i'm doing my job that's
40:29what i'm assigned to do and that's what
40:30i was paid to do
40:32but deep inside i still hope that at
40:34least some of these
40:35useful idiots would understand that what
40:38they are looking at has nothing to do
40:40with the level of affluence in my nation
40:43this is a better picture which reflects
40:46the true
40:48spirit of of the
40:50soviet uh soviet childhood this picture
40:53was printed in a canadian government
40:55publication by mistake
40:58in the middle you can see children
40:59playing on a small courtyard and the
41:02caption goes this is a typical
41:04kindergarten in siberia
41:06what these idiots didn't understand that
41:08it is not kindergarten at all it is a
41:11prison for children of political
41:14prisoners
41:16but there was not a single mentioning
41:18that what they were visiting actually
41:19was an area of concentration camps
41:23and the job of people like myself to
41:25help them to
41:27not to notice that they are actually
41:29talking to prisoners
41:31most of the children were dressed
41:32especially on the occasion of the
41:34foreigners visit
41:36the
41:36of course there were no corpses in on
41:38the ground there were no machine gun
41:40guards
41:42and the well it looks not very pleasant
41:44as you see it
41:46it looks dull but obviously it does not
41:48create an impression that this is
41:50actually a prison well did any of the
41:52journalists have the uh curiosity to ask
41:55about uh prisons and that kind of thing
41:57they were in siberia this is what you
41:59saw yes some of them asked questions and
42:01naturally we would give them the for the
42:03stupid question we give them stupid
42:05answer no there are no prisons in
42:06siberia no most of the people who
42:09you see are free citizens of ussr
42:12they're very happy to be here
42:14and they are contributing to the glory
42:16of the socialist system
42:18uh some of them pretended that they they
42:21believe what what i was telling them
42:24and um
42:26most of them we may discuss it later
42:28what are the motivations of these people
42:30why would they stubbornly bring lies to
42:32their own population through their own
42:35mass media
42:36i have various answers to this there is
42:38not a single explanation it's a complex
42:40of explanations
42:42it's fear pure biological fear they
42:45understand that they are on the
42:46territory of an enemy state a police
42:48state and just to save their rotten
42:51skins and their miserable jobs their
42:53affluence back home they would prefer to
42:56tell a lie than to to ask truthful
42:58questions and and report truthful
43:00information
43:02second most of these schmucks were
43:05afraid to lose their jobs because
43:07obviously if you tell truth about my
43:09country you will not last long as a
43:11correspondent of new york times
43:13or los angeles times they will fire you
43:16what kind of correspondent are you you
43:18obviously cannot find common language
43:19with russians if they kick you out in 24
43:22hours so
43:23just by by trying to be conformists to
43:26their own editorial bosses
43:28they tried not to offend the sentiments
43:31of the soviet administrators and people
43:33like myself deep inside i hope they
43:35would insult my
43:38or offend my sentiments obviously they
43:40preferred not to
43:43another reason
43:44uh i did i refuse to believe it but
43:47obviously there is another reason
43:49obviously it's agreed these people earn
43:52a lot of money when they come back to
43:54usa
43:55they claim that they are experts in my
43:57country they write books which sells in
44:00million copies
44:01titled like russians the truth about
44:03russia most of it is lie about russia
44:06yet they claim to be sovietologists
44:10they they break they play back myth
44:12about my country the propaganda cliches
44:15yet they are stubbornly resist
44:17the word of truth
44:19if a person like solzhenitsyn
44:22is either defecting or kicked out of
44:23ussr they try all their best to dis to
44:27discredit him and to discourage him
44:30i don't have much chance to appear on
44:32national network
44:33with the true story about my country but
44:36a useful edit like hendrik smith or
44:38robert kaiser they are big heroes they
44:41come back from ussr they say oh we were
44:43talking to dissidents in russia
44:45big deal
44:47soviet distances are chasing american
44:49correspondents in the streets and they
44:51are cowardly escaping from these
44:53contacts
44:54for some strange reason if you want to
44:56know more about spain you refer to
44:58spanish writers if you want to learn
45:00more about french you read
45:03french or writers
45:05even about antarctica i bet you would
45:07read penguins only about the soviet
45:09union for some strange reason you read
45:12hendricks and schmendricks and all kind
45:13of kissingers because they claim that
45:16they know more about my country they
45:18know nothing or next to nothing or they
45:21pretend that they know more than they
45:23actually do
45:25i would say they are dishonest people
45:27who lack integrity and
45:30common sense and intellectual honesty
45:33they bring back all kind of stories like
45:35that a kindergarten in siberia
45:38a meeting the most important fact it's a
45:41prison for children of political
45:44prisoners
45:47another greatest example of monumental
45:50idiocy of american politicians
45:53edward kennedy was in moscow
45:56and he thought that he is a popular
45:59charismatic american politician
46:02who is easy going who can smile dance at
46:04the wedding in in russian palace of
46:07marriages what he does what he did not
46:09understand or maybe he pretended not to
46:11understand that actually he was being
46:13taken for a ride
46:15this is a staged wedding especially to
46:17impress foreign media
46:20or or useful idiots like ed kennedy
46:23most of the of the guests there
46:26they had security clearance and they
46:28were instructed what to say to
46:30foreigners
46:31this is exactly what i was doing you can
46:33see me in the same damn bedding palace
46:37in moscow where ed kennedy was dancing
46:39here you see smiling
46:41he thinks he's very smart from the
46:43viewpoint of russian citizens who
46:45observe this idiocy he's
46:48he's narrow-minded egocentrical idiot
46:51who tries to earn his own popularity
46:54through the
46:55through participation in propaganda
46:57forces like this here you can see myself
46:59on the right again exemplary soviet
47:02bride
47:03on the left three journalists from
47:05various countries asia africa and latin
47:08america
47:09obviously they
47:10enjoying the situation they they will go
47:13back home and write the reports we were
47:15present in the on a regular soviet
47:17wedding they were not present on a
47:20regular soviet wedding they were present
47:22they were part of a farce of a circus
47:24performance
47:27another thing which
47:29i had to sometimes risking my life to
47:32explain to foreigners
47:34time magazine for example is very
47:36critical of south african racist regime
47:40the whole article
47:42was dedicated to the shameful internal
47:45passport system where black blacks are
47:47not allowing to live with whites
47:50for some strange reason for the last 14
47:52years since my defection nobody wanted
47:54to pay attention to my password
47:56this is my password it also shows my
47:59nationality and it it has a police
48:02rubber stamp which is called prapiska in
48:04russian language which assigns me to a
48:07certain area of residence i cannot leave
48:10that area same way as this black man
48:13cannot leave the area in south africa
48:16yet we call south african government
48:18racist regime not a single jane jane
48:21schmonder or fonda is brave enough
48:24courageous enough to come to media and
48:26say look this is what happens in ussr i
48:29send a copy of my passport to many
48:32american liberals and civil rights
48:35defenders and all the other useful
48:37idiots they never they never bothered to
48:39answer me back
48:40this shows what kind of integrity what
48:42kind of honesty these people are
48:45they're a bunch of hypocrites because
48:47they don't want to recognize a good
48:49example of racism in my country
48:54this is the first stage of befriending a
48:56professor you can see myself on the left
48:58with the same james bond smile on my on
49:01the right is my kgb supervisor comrade
49:04mitrochin and in the middle a professor
49:06of political science in delhi university
49:09the next stage would be to invite him to
49:11a gathering of in the soviet friendship
49:13society there he is sitting next to his
49:15wife
49:16before he is being sent to ussr for free
49:19trip everything is paid by the soviet
49:21government
49:22he was made to believe that he is
49:24invited to ussr because he is a talented
49:27sober thinking
49:28intellectual
49:30absolutely false he is invited because
49:33he is a useful idiot because he would
49:35agree and subscribe to most of the
49:37soviet propaganda cliche and when he is
49:40coming back to his own country he is
49:42going for years and years to teach the
49:45beauties of soviet socialism to
49:48newer and newer generations of his
49:50students
49:51thus promoting the soviet propaganda
49:53line
49:55the kgb was even
49:57curious about
49:58this gentleman it may look innocent
50:01maharishi mahesh yogi a great spiritual
50:03leader
50:04or maybe a great charlatan and crook
50:07depending on which from which side you
50:09are looking at him
50:10beatles were trained at his ashram in
50:13hardware in india how to meditate mia
50:16faro and and other uh useful idiots from
50:19hollywood visited
50:20his uh
50:22school and they returned back to to
50:24united states absolutely zonked out of
50:26their minds with marijuana hashish and
50:28crazy ideas of meditation to meditate in
50:32other words to isolate oneself from the
50:34current
50:35social and political issues of your own
50:37country
50:39to get into your own bubble to forget
50:41about troubles of the world
50:43obviously kgb was very fascinated with
50:45such a beautiful school
50:47such a brainwashing center for stupid
50:50americans i was dispatched by the kgb to
50:53check what kind of vip americans attend
50:55this school that's you on the left yes
50:57i'm on the left i i i was trying to get
51:01enrolled in that school unfortunately
51:03maharishi mahashiyogi asked too much he
51:05wanted 500 american dollars for
51:07enrollment
51:08but my function was not actually to get
51:10enrolled in the school my function was
51:12to discover what kind of people from
51:15united states attend this school and we
51:18discovered that yes there are some
51:20influential members of family
51:23uh
51:25public opinion makers of united states
51:28who come back with the crazy stories
51:30about indian philosophy
51:33indians themselves look up upon them as
51:35idiots useful idiots
51:38to say nothing about kgb who looked at
51:40them as as as extremely naive misguided
51:44people
51:45obviously a vip say a wife of of a
51:49congressman
51:50or or a prominent hollywood personality
51:53after the after being trained in that
51:55school is much more instrumental in the
51:58hands of manipulators of public opinion
52:01and kgb than a normal person who who
52:04understands who who looks through this
52:06this
52:07this this type of
52:09fake
52:10religious training why would they be
52:12more susceptible to manipulation i just
52:15mentioned that because you see a a
52:17person who is too much involved in in
52:21in introspective meditation you see if
52:24you carefully look what what maharishi
52:26mahashiyogi is teaching to to americans
52:28is that all most of the problems most of
52:31the burning issues of today can be
52:34solved simply by meditating
52:36don't don't don't rock the boat
52:39don't get involved just sit down look at
52:41your navel and meditate and the things
52:44due to some strange logic due to cosmic
52:46vibration will will will settle down by
52:49themselves
52:50this is exactly what the kgb and marxist
52:53leninist propaganda wants from americans
52:55to destruct their opinion
52:58attention and mental energy from real
53:01issues of united states into a
53:03non-issues into a non-world non-existent
53:06uh harmony
53:08obviously it's more beneficial for the
53:10soviet aggressors to have a bunch of
53:12duped americans than americans who are
53:14self-conscious
53:16healthy
53:17physically fit and alert to the reality
53:21maharishi mahesh yogi obviously is not
53:23on the payroll of the kgb
53:26but
53:27whether he knows it or not he
53:28contributes greatly to demoralization of
53:30american society and he is not the only
53:33one there are hundreds of those gurus
53:36who come to you to your country to
53:37capitalize on naivete and stupidity of
53:40of americans it's a fashion it's a
53:43fashion to meditate it's a fashion not
53:46to be involved
53:48so obviously
53:49you can see that if kgb were
53:52that curious if they paid my trip to
53:54hardware if they assigned me to that to
53:57that strange job obviously they were
54:00very much fascinated
54:01they were convinced that that type of of
54:04brainwashing is very efficient and
54:06instrumental in demoralization of united
54:08states our conversation with yuri
54:11alexandrovich besmienov who is a
54:13defector from the soviet union a former
54:15propaganda agent for navasti and the kgb
54:19will continue after this message
54:25[Music]
54:41[Music]
54:44this picture shows the part of the
54:45building of ussr embassy and my
54:48supervisors on the left is comrade mcd
54:51an indian communist and on the right
54:53comrade mitrochin
54:54my supervisors in the secret department
54:56of research and country propaganda
54:59it has nothing to do with either
55:00research or country propaganda
55:03most of the activity of the department
55:05was to compile huge
55:07amount volume of information
55:10on individuals who were instrumental in
55:12creating public opinion
55:14publishers editors journalists
55:18actors
55:19educationalists professors of political
55:21science members of parliament
55:24representatives of business circles
55:27most of these people were divided
55:29roughly into groups those who would tow
55:31the soviet foreign policy they would be
55:33promoted to the positions of power
55:36through media and public opinion
55:37manipulation those who refused the
55:39soviet influence in their own country
55:41would be character assassinated or
55:45executed physically come revolution
55:48same way as in the small town of hewa in
55:51south vietnam several thousands of
55:53vietnamese were executed in one night
55:56when the city was captured by viet cong
55:58for only two days an american cia could
56:01never figure out how could possibly
56:03communists know each individual where he
56:06leaves where where to get him
56:08and would be arrested in one night
56:11basically in some four hours before dawn
56:14put on a van
56:15taken out of the city limits and shot
56:18the answer is very simple long before
56:20communists occupied the city there was
56:22extensive network of informers
56:25local vietnamese citizens who knew
56:27absolutely everything about people who
56:30are instrumental in public opinion
56:32including barbers and taxi drivers
56:34everyone who was sympathetic to united
56:36states was executed
56:38same thing was done
56:39under the guidance of of the soviet
56:41embassy in hanoi and same thing i was
56:43doing in new delhi to my horror i
56:45discovered that in the files where
56:47people were doomed to execution there
56:50were names of of
56:51pro-soviet journalists with whom i was
56:54personally friendly
56:56yes
56:57they were idealistically minded leftists
57:00who made several visits to ussr and yet
57:03the kgb decided that com revolution or
57:06drastic changes in political structure
57:08of india they will have to go
57:11why is that because they know too much
57:14simply because you see the useful idiots
57:17the the leftists who are idealistically
57:19believing in the beauty of soviet
57:21socialist or communist or whatever
57:22system
57:24when they get disillusioned they become
57:26the worst enemies that's why my kgb
57:28instructors specifically made the point
57:31never bother with leftists forget about
57:34these political prostitutes aim higher
57:37this was my instruction try to get into
57:40into
57:42large circulation established
57:44conservative media
57:45reach filthy reach movie makers
57:48intellectuals so-called academic circles
57:51cynical egocentric people who can look
57:53into your eyes with angelic expression
57:55and tell you a lie
57:57this are the most recruitable people
57:59people who lack moral principles who are
58:02either too greedy
58:03or to
58:04suffer from self-importance
58:07they feel that they they matter a lot
58:11these are the people who kgb wanted very
58:13much to recruit
58:15but to eliminate the others to execute
58:17the others don't they serve some purpose
58:19wouldn't they be the ones that rely they
58:20serve purpose only at the stage of
58:22destabilization of a nation for example
58:25your leftists in the united states all
58:27these professors and all these beautiful
58:30civil rights defenders
58:32they are instrumental in the process of
58:34the of the uh subversion only to
58:37destabilize the nation
58:40when their job is completed they're not
58:42they're not needed anymore they know too
58:44much
58:45some of them when when they get
58:47disillusioned when they see that marxist
58:49lenin has come to power obviously they
58:51get offended they think that they will
58:53come to power that will never happen of
58:55course they will be lined up against the
58:57wall and shot
58:58but they may turn into the most bitter
59:01enemies of marxist leninists when they
59:03come to power and that's what happened
59:05in nicaragua you remember most of these
59:08former marxist leninists were either put
59:10to prison or one of them split and now
59:12he's working against sandinistas it
59:15happened in
59:16grenada when maurice bishop was he was
59:19already a marxist he was executed by by
59:21a new marxist who was more marxist than
59:23this marxist same happened in
59:25afghanistan when uh first there was
59:27taraki he was killed by amin and amin
59:29was killed by barbara karmal with the
59:31help of kgb same happened in in
59:33bangladesh when munjibur rahman very
59:35pro-soviet leftist was assassinated by
59:38his own marxist-leninist military
59:41comrades
59:42it's the same pattern everywhere the
59:44moment they serve their purpose all the
59:46useful idiots are used either be
59:49executed entirely all the idealistically
59:51minded marxists or were exiled or put in
59:55prisons like in cuba many many former
59:57marxists are in cuba i mean in prison so
1:00:01most of the indians who were cooperating
1:00:03with the soviets especially without
1:00:06the department of of uh information of
1:00:09the ussr embassy were listed for
1:00:11execution
1:00:14and when i discovered that fact of
1:00:16course i was sick i was mentally and
1:00:18physically sick i thought that i'm going
1:00:20to explode one day during the briefing
1:00:22of the ambassador's office i would stand
1:00:24up and say something that we are
1:00:26basically a bunch of murderers that's
1:00:28what we are we it has nothing to do with
1:00:30friendship and understanding between the
1:00:32nation and blah blah blah we are
1:00:34murderers we behave as a bunch of thugs
1:00:37in a country which which is hospitable
1:00:39to us a country which with ancient
1:00:41traditions
1:00:43but i i did not defect i tried to get
1:00:46the message across to my horror nobody
1:00:48wanted even to listen least of all to
1:00:50believe what i had to say
1:00:53and i tried all kind of tricks i would i
1:00:55would i would
1:00:56leak information through
1:00:58letters uh or
1:01:00lost documents or something like that
1:01:02and still i got no message the message
1:01:04was not published even in the
1:01:05conservative mass media of india
1:01:09the immediate impulse to defect was
1:01:10bangladesh crisis which was described by
1:01:13american correspondents
1:01:15as islamic grassroots revolution which
1:01:18is absolute baloney
1:01:20there was nothing to do with islam and
1:01:22there was no grassroots revolution
1:01:24actually there are no grassroots
1:01:25revolutions period any revolution is a
1:01:27byproduct of a highly organized group
1:01:30of conscientious and professional
1:01:33organizers but has nothing to do with
1:01:36grassroots
1:01:37in bangladesh
1:01:38it was nothing with grassroots most of
1:01:41the avami league party members of
1:01:44amilign's people's party
1:01:46were trained in moscow in the high party
1:01:48school
1:01:49most of the muktifaci leaders muktifajis
1:01:52in bengali means people's army same as
1:01:54swappo and and all kind of liberation
1:01:57armies all over the world the same bunch
1:01:59of useful idiots they were trained at
1:02:01lumumba university and various centres
1:02:04of the kgb in simferopol in in crimea
1:02:07and in tashkent
1:02:09so when i saw
1:02:10that india indian territory is being
1:02:12used as a as a jumping board to destroy
1:02:15east
1:02:18of so-called pakistan
1:02:21traveling through india to east pakistan
1:02:23through the territory of india and
1:02:26indian government pretended not to see
1:02:28what was going on they knew perfectly
1:02:30well the indian police knew it the
1:02:32intelligence department of indian
1:02:33government knew it the kgb of course
1:02:35knew it and the cia knew it
1:02:37that that was most infuriating because
1:02:39when i defected and i explained to the
1:02:41cia debriefers
1:02:43they should watch out because east
1:02:44pakistan is going to erupt any moment
1:02:47they said i i was i was reading to too
1:02:49many james bond novels
1:02:51anyway so east pakistan was doomed
1:02:55uh one of my colleagues in in the soviet
1:02:58consulate in kolkata when he was dead
1:03:00drunk he ventured into the basement to
1:03:02relieve himself
1:03:03and he founded big boxes
1:03:05which said printed matter to dhaka
1:03:07university
1:03:09dhaka is a capitalist pakistan
1:03:11and since he was drunk and curious he
1:03:14opened one of the boxes and he
1:03:15discovered not printed matter he
1:03:17discovered kalashnikov guns and
1:03:19ammunition in there anyway it's a long
1:03:21story when i saw the preparations for
1:03:23the for the uh invasion into east
1:03:26pakistan obviously i wanted to defect
1:03:28immediately
1:03:29the only thing i couldn't i couldn't at
1:03:31that time
1:03:33make up my mind when and where and how
1:03:36one of the reasons of course you see i
1:03:38was
1:03:38in love with india i mentioned that
1:03:40before i spoke the languages i
1:03:43socialized with people and i understood
1:03:45that
1:03:46i had to to act fast unless i want this
1:03:49beautiful country to be
1:03:51permanently and irreparably damaged by
1:03:54our presence
1:03:56one of the reasons not to defect was as
1:03:58you can see i was living in relative
1:04:00affluence
1:04:01who the hell in in the normal mind would
1:04:04defect and do what to be abused by your
1:04:07media to be called mccarthyist and
1:04:09fascists and paranoid
1:04:12or to drive a taxi in new york city what
1:04:14for what the hell for should i defect
1:04:17to be abused by americans to be insulted
1:04:20in exchange for for my effort to bring
1:04:22the truthful information about impending
1:04:24danger of subversion
1:04:26as you can see i was living in quite a
1:04:28comfortable conditions next to swimming
1:04:30pool where indians were not allowed by
1:04:32the way i was highly paid expert in
1:04:34propaganda i had my family i was
1:04:37respected by my nation
1:04:39my career was cloudless
1:04:41the third reason how to defect with the
1:04:43family
1:04:45to defect with the baby and the wife
1:04:47would be
1:04:48virtual suicide because according to law
1:04:51that hypocritical law which i quoted
1:04:53before the indian police will have to
1:04:55hand me over back to the kgb and that
1:04:57will be the end of my defection and
1:04:59probably my life
1:05:01again
1:05:02i cannot smuggle my wife because she was
1:05:05not quite sure what what i was doing
1:05:07she was not that idealistically involved
1:05:09and she was definitely not in in the
1:05:13total picture what i was doing for the
1:05:15kgb she would be shocked
1:05:17if i if i
1:05:19you know put her in my van and driver to
1:05:22your american embassy or elsewhere
1:05:24that would be a greatest danger
1:05:27so again i had to defect in such a way
1:05:29that my defection would look as simple
1:05:31disappearance and there were many cases
1:05:33like that when the soviet agents simply
1:05:36disappeared either killed in action
1:05:38or
1:05:39thanks to their curiosity and their
1:05:42close contacts with radicals some of
1:05:44them were killed by the marxist by the
1:05:46way
1:05:47it happened in many african countries
1:05:48when the soviet kgb were killed by
1:05:50africans themselves not because they
1:05:53hated marxism leninist but because they
1:05:55were simply trigger happy
1:05:57bunch of unruly characters if you give
1:05:58them machine gun they will shoot
1:06:01and some of the soviets obviously were
1:06:03not careful enough to protect themselves
1:06:05and they got into embarrassing
1:06:06situations when they were shot
1:06:09at the crossfire between factions of
1:06:11so-called liberation movements
1:06:14anyway so i i decided as i said to study
1:06:16the counter culture i decided this
1:06:19probably would be the best way to
1:06:21disappear
1:06:22i socialized with characters like this
1:06:25on the left you see he is a barefoot
1:06:27american hippie
1:06:30it took me quite a long time to study
1:06:32exactly what they were doing and how to
1:06:34mix with them
1:06:36but eventually i did it most of indian
1:06:38newspapers carried my picture and
1:06:40promise of 2 000 rupees for information
1:06:43about my whereabouts
1:06:45but they were looking for wrong person
1:06:46because they obviously tried to stop
1:06:49a young soviet diplomat in
1:06:52white shirt and thai and this is how i
1:06:54looked at the time of defection nobody
1:06:56could possibly
1:06:58think that the soviet diplomat would be
1:06:59as crazy as to join a bunch of hippies
1:07:02that's you yes travel indian smokehouse
1:07:04so i made it
1:07:06literally
1:07:08almost like a hollywood style
1:07:11detective story uh from under the nose
1:07:14of the kgb in bombay airport i landed
1:07:17the plane and i flew to to greece where
1:07:20i was debriefed by the cia that's
1:07:22basically most that's all for my
1:07:25slides we can turn off the projectors
1:07:27and that's very interesting
1:07:29well you spoke several times before
1:07:31about ideological subversion that is a
1:07:34phrase that
1:07:35i'm afraid some americans don't fully
1:07:37understand
1:07:38when
1:07:39the soviets use the phrase ideological
1:07:41subversion what do they mean by it
1:07:43ideological subversion is is the process
1:07:48which is legitimate overt
1:07:51and open you can see it with your own
1:07:53eyes all you have to do all american
1:07:56mass media has to do is to unplug their
1:07:58bananas from their ears open up their
1:08:00eyes and they can see it there's no
1:08:02mystery there's nothing to do with
1:08:04espionage i know that espionage
1:08:06intelligence gathering looks more
1:08:08romantic it sells more deodorants
1:08:11through the advertising probably that's
1:08:12why your hollywood producers are so
1:08:15crazy about james bond type of thrillers
1:08:19but in reality the main emphasis of the
1:08:22kgb is not in the area of intelligence
1:08:25at all
1:08:26according to my
1:08:28opinion and opinion of many defectors of
1:08:30my caliber only about 15 percent of time
1:08:33money and manpower is spent on espionage
1:08:37as such the other 85 percent is a slow
1:08:40process
1:08:41which we call either ideological
1:08:43subversion or active measures
1:08:46activeness in the language of the kgb or
1:08:50psychological warfare what it basically
1:08:52means is to change the perception of
1:08:54reality of every american
1:08:58to such an extent that despite of the
1:09:00abundance of information
1:09:03no one is able to come to sensible
1:09:05conclusions
1:09:07in the interests of defending themselves
1:09:09their families their community and their
1:09:11country
1:09:13it's a great brainwashing
1:09:15uh process which goes very slow and it's
1:09:18divided in four basic stages
1:09:22uh the first one being demoralization it
1:09:25takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize
1:09:27a nation why that many years
1:09:30because this is the minimum number of
1:09:32years which requires to
1:09:34educate one generation of students
1:09:37in the country of of your enemy
1:09:40exposed to the ideology of the enemy in
1:09:44other words marxism leninism ideology is
1:09:46being pumped into the soft heads of of
1:09:48at least three generations of american
1:09:50students without being challenged or
1:09:52counterbalanced by the basic values of
1:09:55americanism american patriotism the
1:09:58result the result you can see most of
1:10:01the people who graduated in 60s
1:10:03dropouts or half-baked intellectuals are
1:10:06now occupying the positions of power in
1:10:08the government civil service business
1:10:10mass media educational system you are
1:10:13stuck with them you cannot get rid of
1:10:15them they are contaminated they are
1:10:18programmed to think and react to certain
1:10:20stimuli in a certain pattern
1:10:22you cannot change their mind even if you
1:10:24if you expose them to authentic
1:10:27information even if you prove that white
1:10:29is white and black is black you still
1:10:32cannot change the basic
1:10:34perception and the logic of behavior
1:10:37in other words these people
1:10:40the process of demoralization is
1:10:42complete and irreversible to get rid
1:10:44society of these people you have you
1:10:46need
1:10:47another 20 or or 15 years
1:10:50to educate a new generation of
1:10:52patriotically minded and and
1:10:55common common sense
1:10:57people who would be acting in
1:11:00favor and in the interests of of the of
1:11:03the united states society and yet these
1:11:06people have been programmed and as you
1:11:08say in place and who are favorable to
1:11:11an opening with the soviet concept these
1:11:13are the very people who would be marked
1:11:15for extermination in this country most
1:11:16of them yes
1:11:18simply because
1:11:19the psychological shock when when they
1:11:22will see in future what the what the
1:11:24beautiful society of equality and social
1:11:27justice means in practice
1:11:29obviously they will revolt they they
1:11:31will
1:11:33they will be very unhappy frustrated
1:11:35people
1:11:36and the marxist leninist regime does not
1:11:38tolerate these people
1:11:41they obviously they will join the links
1:11:43of dissenters
1:11:44dissidents
1:11:46uh unlike in present united states there
1:11:49will be no place for descent in future
1:11:51marxist leninist america
1:11:54here you can you can get
1:11:57popular like daniel ellsberg and filthy
1:12:00rich like jane fonda for being dissident
1:12:02for criticizing your pentagon in future
1:12:05these people will be
1:12:06simply squashed like cockroaches nobody
1:12:09is going to pay them nothing for their
1:12:11beautiful noble ideas of equality
1:12:14this they don't understand and it will
1:12:16be greatest shock for them of course
1:12:19the demoralization process in the united
1:12:21states is basically completed already
1:12:25for the last 25 years
1:12:27actually it's over fulfilled because
1:12:29demoralization now reaches such areas
1:12:32where previously not even comrade drop
1:12:34off and all his experts would would even
1:12:38dream of such a tremendous success
1:12:40most of it is done by americans to
1:12:43americans thanks to lack of moral
1:12:45standards as i mentioned before
1:12:48uh exposure to true information does not
1:12:51matter anymore
1:12:53a person who was demoralized
1:12:55is unable to assess true information the
1:12:58facts
1:12:59tell nothing to him
1:13:01even if i shower him with information
1:13:04with authentic proof with documents with
1:13:06pictures
1:13:08even if i take him by force to the
1:13:10soviet union and show him concentration
1:13:12camp he will refuse to believe it
1:13:15until he he is going to receive a kick
1:13:18in the in his fat bottom
1:13:20when the military boot crashes his balls
1:13:22then he will understand but not before
1:13:24that that's the tragic of the situation
1:13:26of demoralization
1:13:28so basically america is stuck with
1:13:30demoralization and unless even if if you
1:13:33start right now here this minute you
1:13:35start educating new generation of
1:13:37americans it will still take you 15 to
1:13:3920 years to turn the tide
1:13:42of ideological perception of reality
1:13:46back to normal normalcy and
1:13:49patriotism
1:13:51the next stage is destabilization
1:13:53this time subverter does not care about
1:13:56your ideas and the patterns of your
1:13:58consumption whether you eat junk food
1:14:00and get fat and flop it doesn't matter
1:14:02anymore this time and it takes only from
1:14:05two to five years to destabilize the
1:14:07nation
1:14:08uh it's what what matters is essentials
1:14:11economy foreign relations defense
1:14:13systems
1:14:16and you can see it quite clearly that in
1:14:18some areas uh
1:14:20in such sensitive areas as as
1:14:22defense
1:14:23and economy
1:14:25the
1:14:26influence of marxist leninist ideas in
1:14:28the united states is absolutely
1:14:30fantastic i could never believe it 14
1:14:32years ago when i landed
1:14:34in this part of the world that the
1:14:36process will go that fast
1:14:39the next stage of course is crisis it
1:14:42may take only up to six weeks to to
1:14:44bring a country to the verge of crisis
1:14:46you can see it in in central america now
1:14:49and after crisis with a violent change
1:14:51of of power structure and economy you
1:14:54have so-called the period of
1:14:56normalization it may last indefinitely
1:14:59normalization is a cynical expression
1:15:01born from soviet propaganda when the
1:15:03soviet tanks moved into czechoslovakia
1:15:05in 68 comrade brezhnev said now the
1:15:08situation in brotherly czechoslovakia is
1:15:11normalized this is what will happen in
1:15:14united states if you allow all the
1:15:16schmucks to bring the country to crisis
1:15:19to promise people all kind of goodies
1:15:21and the paradise on earth
1:15:23to to destabilize your economy to
1:15:27eliminate the principle of free market
1:15:29competition and to put a big brother
1:15:32government
1:15:33in washington dc
1:15:35with the benevolent dictators like
1:15:37walter mondale
1:15:39who will promise lots of things never
1:15:41mind whether the promises are
1:15:42fulfillable or not he will go to moscow
1:15:45to kiss the bottoms of new generation of
1:15:48soviet assassins never mind he will
1:15:50create false illusions that the
1:15:53situation is under control situation is
1:15:55not under control situation is
1:15:58disgustingly out of control
1:16:00most of the american politicians media
1:16:02and educational system
1:16:04trains another generation of people who
1:16:07think they are living at the peacetime
1:16:11falls
1:16:12united states is in the state of war
1:16:14undeclared total war against the basic
1:16:18principles and the foundations of this
1:16:21system
1:16:22and and the initiator of this war is not
1:16:25comradero of course
1:16:27uh it's it's the system
1:16:30however ridiculous it may sound the
1:16:32world communist system or the world
1:16:35communist conspiracy whether i scare
1:16:37some people or not i don't give a hoot
1:16:40if you are not scared by now nothing can
1:16:42scare you
1:16:44but you don't have to be paranoid about
1:16:46it what what actually happens now
1:16:50that unlike myself you have
1:16:53literally
1:16:54several years to live on unless the
1:16:56united states wake up
1:16:58the the time bomb is ticking with every
1:17:00second
1:17:01the disaster is coming closer and closer
1:17:04unlike myself you will have nowhere to
1:17:06defect to
1:17:08unless you want to live in antarctica
1:17:10with penguins this is it this is the
1:17:12last country of freedom and and
1:17:15possibility okay so what do we do what
1:17:17is your recommendation to the american
1:17:19people
1:17:20well uh the the uh
1:17:23the immediate thing that comes to my
1:17:25mind is of course there must be a very
1:17:28strong
1:17:29national effort to educate people in in
1:17:33in the spirit of real patriot is number
1:17:35one number two to to explain them the
1:17:38real danger of socialist communist
1:17:40whatever welfare state big brother
1:17:42government if people will fail to grasp
1:17:46the impending danger
1:17:48of that development
1:17:49nothing ever can help united states you
1:17:52may kiss goodbye to your freedom
1:17:53including freedoms to homosexuals to a
1:17:57prison inmate all these freedoms will
1:17:59vanish evaporating in five seconds
1:18:02including your precious lives
1:18:05the second thing i the moment at least
1:18:09part of united states population is
1:18:11convinced that the danger is real they
1:18:14have to force their government and i'm
1:18:16not talking about sending letters
1:18:17signing petitions and all this beautiful
1:18:20noble activity i'm talking about forcing
1:18:23united states government to stop aiding
1:18:26communism
1:18:28because there is no other problem more
1:18:30burning and urgent
1:18:32than to stop the soviet military
1:18:34industrial complex from destroying what
1:18:36is whatever is left of the free world
1:18:39and it is very easy to do no credits
1:18:42no technology no money no political or
1:18:45diplomatic recognition and of course no
1:18:47such idiots has grain deals to ussr
1:18:50the soviet people 270 millions of
1:18:53soviets will be eternally thankful to
1:18:56you if you stop aiding a bunch of
1:18:59murderers who sit now in kremlin and
1:19:01whom president dragon respectfully calls
1:19:04government they do not govern anything
1:19:06least of all such complexity as the
1:19:08soviet economy
1:19:10so basic two two very simple maybe two
1:19:12simplistic answers or solutions but
1:19:15never nevertheless they are the only
1:19:18solutions educate yourself
1:19:20understand what's going on around you
1:19:21you are not living at the time of peace
1:19:24you are in a state of war
1:19:26and you have precious little time to
1:19:29save yourself
1:19:30um
1:19:31you don't have much time especially if
1:19:33you are talking about young generation
1:19:35there's not much time left
1:19:37for
1:19:37convulsions and sexual masturbation
1:19:41to the beautiful
1:19:42disco music
1:19:44very soon it will go just just overnight
1:19:47if we are talking about capitalists or
1:19:50or
1:19:51wealthy businessmen
1:19:52they i think they are selling the rope
1:19:54on which they will hang very soon if
1:19:57they don't stop if they cannot curb
1:19:59their unsettled desire for profit
1:20:03and if they keep on trading with the
1:20:04monster of the soviet communism
1:20:07they are going to hang very soon and it
1:20:10they will pray to be killed but
1:20:12unfortunately they will be sent to
1:20:13alaska probably to manage industry of
1:20:16slaves it's it's simplistic i know it
1:20:19sounds unpleasant i know americans don't
1:20:22like to listen to things which are
1:20:23unpleasant
1:20:24but i have defected not to tell you the
1:20:26stories about such idiocies as microfilm
1:20:30james bond type espionage this is
1:20:33garbage
1:20:35you don't need any espionage anymore
1:20:37i have come to talk about survival it's
1:20:40a question of survival of this system
1:20:44you may ask me what is it for me
1:20:46survival obviously because unlike
1:20:49i as i said
1:20:50i am now in your boat if we sing
1:20:54together we will sing beautifully
1:20:55together there is no other place on this
1:20:58planet to defect
1:21:01[Music]
1:21:23[Music]
1:21:26you

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of G. EDWARD GRIFFIN INTERVIEWS YURI BEZMENOV (1984) by FraziorONE, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 11,767 words across 2,094 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.