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FULL Police Interrogation 2 - Jennifer Pan — Transcript

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0:00welcome to eight minute crimes these full uncut interviews are obviously longer than
0:04eight minutes but I wanted people to have access to the full interviews and interrogations along
0:08with the highlighted version because if you're like me it's just interesting to
0:12watch we will be putting out multiple videos every week where we break down various cases
0:17in just eight minutes and give you the full interrogation and a condensed version or a
0:22highlighted version for those that just don't have the time so if this is your sort of thing
0:25we would love to have you as a subscriber enough rambling let's get into it thank you foreign
0:39okay Jennifer I'm going to explain this sworn video statement form and as I've we're now being
0:44recorded this is not new to you we've done this once before okay I want to take before we get
0:52this try and take that first interview that we had which was you know hours after what what had
0:58transpired put it aside it's almost like we've never spoken before okay so we're starting to
1:04Fresh we're starting from new that way you're not going to say I think I already told them
1:08that don't worry about what you've already told me so this is a statement of Jennifer
1:13Pan and the incident number is uh for the murder investigation is 310188 of 2010. Jennifer do you
1:23ever do you understand that everything that's being said in this room is being videotaped
1:31a Randy slate and active with the York Regional Police my badge number is 531.
1:35there's no one else present in the room other than you and I
1:38and monitoring this statement next to us is Deborah Gladding
1:47uh today is Thursday November the 11th 2010. the time on one my watch is 9 43.
1:57in the morning we are presently videotaping at five district in the town of Markham
2:02in the regional Municipality of York um is there anything we're back to this question
2:07again about is there anything else I need to know in order to better understand your statement and
2:11that is do you suffer from any mental illness have you been drinking did you take any drugs
2:16drugs no drinking so there's nothing that's going to influence your statement
2:29don't be nervous okay I know that's tough to say but don't be nervous the truth
2:36is always the best way to relieve anxiety okay we're investigating an allegation of murder
2:51of your mom pan as a part of our investigation of this Fest if offense I would like to interview on
3:00videotape and under oath saw my information or solemn declaration it is my obligation to
3:06advise you of certain information before we commence this statement just wanted
3:11redundant remember me telling you about that
3:21so just to reiterate uh we're in the middle are starting the middle portion of the video KGB I've
3:27just turned on my digital audio recorder just just in case for Fail-Safe measures it's now 9 45 we
3:33began the video statement portion at 9 43 and I'm just at the portion of the video statement form
3:41um Jennifer can you spell your name for me j e
3:46and last name okay so it's my obligation to advise you of certain information before we commence
3:53this statement you may be a witness in court concerning the events you're about to describe
3:57in your statement if at any time you change your statement or claim not to remember the events the
4:01contents of this video statement you give now may be used as evidence in court do you understand yes
4:10and for the audio recording just to date it it's the 11th of November and I already said 9 45.
4:16UM these are the criminal code sanctions remember I told you the explaining of the of
4:23the facts of that there's certain penalties for not telling the truth or misleading the police
4:29it's also my obligation to advise you that fabricating evidence with the intent to mislead
4:34is an offense under section 137 of the criminal code and if you give a false statement under oath
4:39you may be charged with fabricating evidence if convicted of fabricating evidence you could be
4:44sentenced up to 14 years in jail it is also an offense under section 139 of the criminal code
4:49to obstruct by willfully attempting to obstruct pervert or defeat the course of justice and you
4:54may be charged if you obstruct Justice if convicted of obstructing justice you could
4:58be sentenced up to 10 years in jail it is also an offense under section 140 of the criminal code to
5:04commit public Mischief by causing a police officer to start or continue an investigation by making a
5:10false statement that accuses some other person of committing an offense and you may be charged
5:14if you commit public Mischief you've convicted a public Mischief you could be sentenced up to
5:19five years in jail if you were charged with one or more of the above fences the statement may be
5:24used is evidence against you do you understand the criminal sanctions I've explained to you
5:31do you understand the criminal consequences of making a false statement yes
5:36do you understand that it's your choice to get whether or not you want to give a statement yes
5:42do you understand the importance of telling truth in regards to this investigation
5:48if you've spoken to a police officer any person in Authority in connection
5:51with this investigation I wanted to clearly understood I don't want it
5:54to influence you in making a statement do you understand that yes have any questions
6:03are you prepared to give a video statement under oath or so amount
6:06sorry solemn affirmation or Declaration at this time yes
6:11okay I'm just going to bring the Commission in and then we can get on with it
6:24hello I'm Sonia faccini I'm a commissioner and I'm just going to swear you in for your statement
6:29okay will you be swearing on the Bible or were you just place your right hand there please
6:41my first name is Jennifer yes last name of pan yes
6:46do you Jennifer Penn swear declare that the evidence that you've given this investigation
6:51shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth will help you God yes
7:06okay okay thank you thank you
7:17Okay so
7:22what we're going to do now is as I said what what education level do you have
7:29High School have you gone to any other like after a higher level of Education have you been working
7:35towards anything uh back to school and I have been working okay there's no other education
7:41that you've sought like you haven't gone to University at this point in time okay so um I want
7:50I want you to forget or put aside the first statement that we had talked about
7:58okay this is going to be where I'm going to ask you to start from the day okay on the 8th leading
8:09up until when you when the police become involved in an incident that takes place in your house I
8:14want you to tell me about your day what you do your interaction with your parents okay so we're
8:20at what we are is we're dealing with the incident we're not dealing with your history right now
8:23we're dealing with the incident again to see if anything else comes forgetting what you've already
8:28told me and bring you throughout self through that day and through the event and we'll see
8:35if what we're going to see if we've learned or if you've remembered anything else and there's some
8:39questions with respect to that statement that I'm going to ask you about okay but I'm going to let
8:44you start again and and let's let's move forward from any time in that day where you want to start
8:49if it's the time you woke up or if it's the time that your first interaction it's your choice
8:56I'm very nervous and I why are you let's why are you why are you nervous tell me about why
9:02you're nervous because I don't want to say the wrong so it was a lot you're right and I've been
9:14scattered and so bits and pieces are here and some pieces aren't here and
9:20I'm just so I want you to sit back in your chair okay just sit back in your chair take a deep
9:27breath okay close your eyes just follow my line just sit back in the chair for a second sit back
9:34relax is the best you can close your eyes
9:41and just breathe for a minute okay
9:52we're not in any type of danger we're nowhere we're in a very safe place okay
10:01and we're going to work through this and don't worry about what you forget or what you mix up
10:06or whatever you're doing is you start and push the play button for that day and if you stick to
10:15everything that you remember happening that day it will come out in sequence okay and I'm going
10:21to show you a technique after we go through this that will that will show it to you okay so let's
10:27just start you've taken a deep breath you've relaxed you're in a good position right there
10:31let's start from the beginning of the day when you wake up and let's start moving forward from there
10:39what I can remember is I woke up had some breakfast and I went upstairs
10:47to do some piano history and I was on the computer what time is that around
10:58I'm not 100 sure time is it like is it you know time is important meaning is it
11:03is it in the beginning of the is it morning is the light out is in the afternoon
11:09maybe before noon before noon sometime before noon yes for noon um
11:17I play some Facebook games so I was doing that and then I stopped and then I was doing
11:24some studying for my piano like I said I was working towards a piano degree in teaching
11:31so I was reading some history notes and going over some practice examination papers
11:40who's in the house at that time for work and my mother's home
11:44okay where's your mom do you know where she is
11:53don't remember at this point I'm getting the last few days all mixed up together uh I believe
12:02she had left with my aunt to go and visit my grandfather that morning or early afternoon
12:11um he is residing what
12:15sorry he reside resided at Manchester nursing home and he had just gotten back from the hospital
12:24Saturday okay so she went in I don't remember she took my aunt but she went in to see if
12:32she could see how the nurse the nurse got any updates on him and see if she could feed him
12:39um when she had left she had called me and she asked me to come out because there were
12:47some police officers on the street and I went out and I asked the police officers came up and they
12:54said that there was a gas leak on our street and to exit our exit our house so I said that
13:02if it would be possible could I go in and grab a jacket because I was still in just regular clothes
13:08so I went in and when I came out my mother said that they wouldn't let her take out the car either
13:13so we were gonna we decided to we were going to walk across the street to a relative's house there
13:20and before we could get to our relative's house uh the officers got a message or a memo from an
13:27from their fellow officers saying that our side was Secure and that it might be from another area
13:33so from there I went back into the house do you remember what time that was
13:38again it was before noon before noon okay okay I'm pretty sure it was before noon so before
13:45noon and now your mom's come back from no not yet she's she's on it she was leaving to go out okay
13:51so she left to go pick up my aunt and go in to my grandfather's and I went back up to
13:58on the computer to do a little studying taking a break and playing some games
14:06um
14:08do you remember speaking to anyone during the day on your on your phone or on the on Facebook
14:17later on in the day yes I spoke to a long time friend Andrew who I went to elementary school with
14:24um but it's the usual he he just asked if we could hang out anytime soon but I explained to
14:32him that I wasn't able to leave the house and I couldn't meet up with him so I asked him how
14:38his life was his girlfriend how his job was going um I believe that was later on in the
14:44day though that wasn't in the afternoon we'll go in later in the and when we talk about your
14:49past about why you couldn't leave the house okay so that isn't that hasn't gone unnoticed
14:54but we're not going to talk about that right now we're talking about that day okay so continue on
15:01mom came home at about three
15:07three or she went with my she uh came home and unpacked and started preparing dinner
15:17my father came home
15:22my father came home about for 20 4 30. it was later than he usually does he normally comes home
15:31about ten to four when my mother asked him where he had been he had said he had forgotten to lock
15:38his toolbox at work or something about along the lines of he had to go back to her because he had
15:45forgotten to uh close something or lock something up where does your dad work um Kobe and Stell
15:54um Middle Field and self-definch okay continue so he comes he's home now late at 4 24 30. 4 30 and
16:05he phoned and asked my uncle Nam if he wanted to go to go buy some heat covers and a USB pin
16:16so he immediately left not shortly after that maybe 4 30 a little bit after that
16:22and on Monday nights my mother goes dancing so we should finish dinner
16:28and me we're ate dinner first what time did you guys have dinner around
16:345 5 30. and then she had then my father came home and he had dinner what time did you Dad get home
16:46I
16:49I'd say sometime between 6 and 6 30 because my mother was able to clean up before going out to
16:57when your dad comes home do you remember seeing what type of bags he was carrying when he came in
17:07so you don't know where he went shopping at um all I know is that when I came down to greet
17:11him after he came home he had shown me this heating cover that he had bought for the house
17:19didn't have a label on it didn't you didn't he took it out of the bag or I don't he did he just
17:23showed me the the cover itself he didn't like did you see the USB stick I believe the USB stick was
17:30for my uncle if they bought it or not I don't know I'm not sure okay so it's now six to six
17:36thirty because your dad's now home and eating and your mom said you say your mom cleans up yeah and
17:41then she leaves at seven and my father goes up to his computer like he normally does yes and he's
17:47on the computer watch like news I'm not sure what he's doing I'm in my room well I believe at this
17:54point I had called my friend hang on let's make sure I gotta make sure that the the tape recorders
18:00didn't just click off okay because we had a bit of a power flicker so just give me a second
18:11okay so we're still we're still
18:17okay so we're at uh we're at seven o'clock right and your mom's getting ready to go so continue on
18:28so she leaves and I my friend Adrian had asked if we would do our movie night like
18:34we normally do he comes over with TV shows uh some of our favorites to watch um together
18:44so he had to come over I'm sorry I this the timeline's a little off he had come over around
18:52I think I told him I've messaged him around six o'clock he came over about 6 20 6 30. what did and
18:59when you say message him was it Facebook or was it your phone text message and what was the phone
19:03which phone is it that you use which phone number uh my Rogers you're Roger's phone and 647 uh
19:11nine six five two one one eight okay so that's the message and is that the
19:16First Communication you had with him that day I think I think three o'clock it'll
19:23sometime asking me if it was TV was on tonight okay and then I had messaged him I'm done you
19:29can come over whenever I think that was just the message I so what time does he arrive again
19:37between 6 and 6 30. so your mom and dad are both home my parents are home and
19:41he came in he greets them as usual they I ask him how everything was going and
19:48then my mom had left for uh dancing and we were downstairs watching um
19:57that day we watched Gossip Girl and How I Met Your Mother
20:01um is this are these live TV shows are these recordings uh he he brings them on a USB
20:08when your Mom leaves what is she wearing attention do you remember what she was wearing when you were
20:14having dinner she was wearing her pajamas when we were having dinner what do they look like
20:20they're like like green with like Winnie the Pooh poo okay um So when you say when she leaves to go
20:28out would she have changed yes because I was like I said my friend came around like 6 30. so we were
20:34already downstairs watching movies but when she went up to change quickly and to her dance class
20:40at seven okay and what car does she take when she leaves she takes the Alexis is that the only car
20:45she drives I've pretty much my father drives his Mercedes and my mother drives the Lexus
20:51do they have like parents have different kinds of routines do they have a routine where they
20:55park the car in the garage out of the garage normally inside but if we plan to go out again
21:04um we park our car outside but only the Lexus so my mother when she came home from
21:10like I said going out with my aunt she had parked the car outside okay so when
21:14my friend came he parked it beside her okay closer to the door and where do they usually
21:20in the garage is there do they just take out either side or do they the Lexus IS normally
21:26when facing the house when looking at the house a left left side is Alexis and
21:33closer to the door no other cars in the house it's just those two okay so your mom's goes did
21:41you see her change her clothes unfortunately I was watching I was just watching my TV and
21:48where were you watching in the basement in the basement so when you say that she's wearing her
21:53her pajamas and she goes upstairs and change is that something you know or you're speculating no
22:00for sure she has to change into regular clothes to go and go dancing okay that's something that
22:07I didn't see it but I know for sure that that's what she does okay so your mom goes and where's
22:12your dad at this point he is uh well like I said around 6 30 he was just finishing up dinner and
22:18after he finished dinner he went up he goes upstairs and goes on the computer so let's talk
22:22about the layout of the house before we move on any further here you're in the basement yes okay
22:29um and it's just the two of you you and Adrian yes the main level the ground level
22:34what's on the ground level um what we call our living dining room with my piano yes and
22:41then behind that is my family room okay and then beside the family room is our kitchen
22:50so are they in separate locations living room dining room or is it living is it dining room
22:55dining room by more than a half like a there's a wall but there is a way to walk from living room
23:01dining room living room are combined sorry okay but to go to the family room there's like a wall
23:07but there is like a um not a doorway but like a opening yes to go through and the kitchen is where
23:16in the front back side the back of the house the back of the house yeah okay you go up the stairs
23:22what's what's on the stairs where what's upstairs how many bedrooms four bedrooms
23:29located um the front of the house beside my parents uh my parents Bedford okay and
23:36where's your bedroom located um the back of the house and is there another bedroom back there
23:42too uh there's one more bedroom back there and that's used for my brother or my cousin depending
23:50your cousin who's uh his name is Curtis and he goes to school in Waterloo okay
23:56um during Co-op season the last Co-op season he
23:59co-opped in Toronto so he stayed with us for four months Curtis's last name hello
24:07we'll get to Curtis after so now we're back to your your P your
24:11um your dad is upstairs did you see him go to the computer room like I said we're speculating
24:16yes that's what his normal routine is that's his normal routine you're in the basement yes
24:21did you hear me your mom leave or you're yes yes okay and how do your parents leave when they're
24:27taking their cars now this time you say the car was out in the driveway did you hear how did
24:31when you say you heard your mom leave how what what where did she go out because uh with how
24:36the house is laid out the stairwell is in the middle of the house so she would have to walk
24:45she would have to walk across the stairs to go to the front door so I I heard her pass through
24:54okay and leave through the front door if you park your cars in your garage how do you get do they
25:00do your parents come close the door and come out and into the house or do they no if they park in
25:05the garage they come through there's an entrance from the garage to the house inside the garage
25:10how many ways are there to get into your house other than breaking a window like how many times
25:17there's a door from the garage yes um the front doorway and the the
25:24backyard in the backyard okay so um it's now seven o'clock or beyond your mom's gone your dad's you
25:34believe upstairs in the computer room in the office and you're downstairs with Adrian watching
25:39either the How I Met Your Mother or Gossip Girl a few episodes talk to anyone or text message anyone
25:46throughout the time that you're with Adrian no does Adrian talk or text message anyone through
25:51at the time his phone wasn't I believe his phone was aside okay um and then what happens
26:00um nine o'clock comes and he says after that flat facility watches like it's time for me to
26:07meet and I went upstairs and got ready for bed okay and did you see your dad or hear
26:13your dad when you went upstairs when I went upstairs he was in his computer room like
26:17he normally is and on the computer at that point in time okay and your mom's not home no
26:27no okay so you're in your bedroom and what are you doing at this point I was on the phone with
26:32my friend Andrew okay okay and just talking to him and then event after and watching TV and then that
26:41was I don't remember how long the conversation was but then I ended up calling my friend Edward
26:45so Andrew Andrew is a old high school friend okay and is he the one that was you would talk to this
26:54is the person you said you were talking to you're trying who was asking about meeting up with you
26:59yes so you were actually talking on the phone with him now yes did you you were talking on Facebook
27:04with him earlier no I was uh text messaging him text messaging him were you talking to anyone on
27:10Facebook at the same time because I know I know you guys can multitask no I believe my Facebook
27:15I keep my there's a chat window and I keep that as offline unless I intend to speak to one of
27:22my friends regarding one of the games I play so when you're talking to Andrew you're not
27:27talking to anyone else no when you're talking to Edward you're not talking to anyone else I
27:34don't okay so that's that answers the question is that there's no computer in there how many
27:38computers are in the house Peter I'm not sure about Towers because my brother recently took
27:44one to school with him but I know there's one fully working computer and my mother has
27:50a laptop do you use either like I said I was on the main computer earlier yes
27:56and the laptop I use occasionally but not too often did you use it that day
28:08don't I don't remember to be honest but I don't believe I did and what services do you use when
28:15you're using the the laptop or or the other what what you say you're on Facebook is there any other
28:20chat lines or any other sometimes I have uh an MSN open but rarely I don't like to be on MSN
28:27too much okay um so uh now we're at nine o'clock and you're into the conversation you've finished
28:36your conversation with Andrew and now you're speaking to Edward what time is it do you think
28:439 15 9 30. when you're talking to Edward as your mom have you heard your mom come in yet I heard my
28:53her mom told when I went down I was like
28:55hi Mom and then I saw her she had changed into her pajamas
28:59and she was downstairs watching TV again so let's stop it right there just hold it in check is that
29:07when she came in did you see her I didn't see her come in okay no when you heard her come in
29:13and you say she changed into her position she went up the stairs you heard her come
29:16upstairs I heard my mom come up the stairs and go into her bedroom okay and then when
29:20I went downstairs like she went back down the stairs and that's when I went out and I went
29:24down the stairs and that's when I noticed she was in her pajamas and just watching TV
29:30did you see your dad he had gone back to his bedroom to call it a night his door was closed
29:37but uh he wasn't on the computer you could see in the computer room that he was not there so this
29:42is after your mom after your mom arrives home you've heard her come up the stairs go into the
29:48girl in the room you're suspecting she's changed because by the time you follow her down the stairs
29:53she didn't follow her she went down and then I went after sure he went down to talk to your
29:58mom just to make sure she was okay what kind of what kind of pajamas is she wearing at this time
30:13are you noticing is there any problems any issues anything out of the norm when you go down because
30:18you said you went down to check on her and see how she was is there anything that's strange is there
30:22anything different not that I know she was just on the couch like she normally is watching television
30:28okay and that's now I'm you're saying 9 15 to 9 30 she gets home that's after that obviously
30:37just a little bit after that okay and then what happens I go back up my stairs and I call Ed again
30:44I had to just wash them so I did put them on mute for a quick second
30:48and then I came back and I was just watching TV and talking with Ed
30:52okay how long are you now upstairs on the phone with it with Edward
30:58I'm sorry but that time frame just like I'm not sure okay
31:05um your cell phone records are going to give us the exact times okay okay so are you have you
31:10talked to anyone else is is it you hang up with Edward go down and see your mom come back upstairs
31:18call Edward yes use the washroom on the phone with Edward still have you talked to anyone else no
31:25okay have you text message anyone else no
31:31do you have more than one phone had one but I keep that I just keep the SIM card yes um again we will
31:43go into the history sure but uh my cell phone gets taken away from me sometimes okay and so I had
31:49um a friend of mine Daniel he bought he got a SIM card for me to use sometimes but I take the SIM
31:56card out when I finish it and I normally keep it in my pocket so my parents wouldn't find it
32:00yes but I don't remember the last time I I used it okay but you didn't use that SIM card that day no
32:09I did not know you did not I don't remember the last time maybe it was a few days before that it
32:15was the last time I remember using it was when my grandfather I was in the hospital and I had
32:21messaged him and he asked me how my grandfather was and how long when does that time frame that
32:26your grandfather went into the hospital he was in the hospital for about 10 days 10 days okay
32:31so that's the last time you remember using that SIM card Associated to from what your
32:36friend had given you was about 10 days earlier or even 12 days earlier because I believe you
32:42said your grandfather had come out of the hospital or was he still in the hospital
32:45no he was in the hospital for 10 days yes on Saturday he had gone
32:50back to his nursing home and this is Monday we're talking so it's about
32:5612 to 14 days earlier that this happened that you you use the Sim Card you're guessing with the
33:02probably within a week within a week yeah because it takes seven days is that we were saying yeah
33:13okay and where's that SIM card now sure I don't remember I had it in my jacket pocket but I don't
33:22remember where it is now okay so we're now back to you're on the phone with Edward and again the
33:30history stuff you're right I don't want it to get convoluted in here but we need to you know
33:33we'll talk about that stuff after so we're back on track here it's now you're back on the phone
33:40you've come from the watch I'm taking the unit button off and you're now on the phone with Edward
33:46where's your mom have you heard your mom come up the stairs is she still
33:49down she's still downstairs she's still downstairs okay
33:53continue on um just I had my TV on because I was watching TV yes
34:03show I was watching us I believe it was amazing Amazing Race I'm I'm not 100 sure
34:10at this moment uh I was watching TV and on the phone with Ed as well okay and then
34:18I the next thing I remember is my mother calling down for my father
34:24what is she saying she's calling him by his name and to come down
34:29okay so give us Verbatim what do you hear her saying is it in
34:34the Vietnamese Chinese or is it in Vietnamese okay what do you hear her say in Vietnamese she's like
34:41honey someday what does that translate to uh that's my father's name Han uh come down here
34:49does she say anything else associated with that with that I can't hear clearly because like I was
34:56on the phone the TV was on but that's what I heard is she yelling or is it um it's allowed it's she's
35:04not yelling but it's a loud tone okay and normally that tone means that I need to go down and see
35:11what's happening usually so that's when I told him I told Edward I was like okay I gotta go I'll call
35:17you later and hang up the phone with him have you heard anything else at this point in time as I'm
35:23hanging up the phone with him I hear footsteps going up the stairs okay but they're not there
35:29are heavier footsteps than what is to be expected from my parents okay and then I hear mumbling and
35:37someone's in the master bedroom and I hear the bed being tossed and I just froze where I was
35:47just hate I don't know they were in there but heard somebody go down the stairs
35:56so at this point I open my door I peered out and there was a person in the my what
36:07would have been my brother's room and where's your brother's room located uh just a little
36:11bit down like I could see my from my doorway to his doorway just a little bit down the hall okay
36:19and he looks at me and he pulls out his gun
36:23and he walks towards me and like sits me down on my bed because my bed is within
36:30a step from my door and he's like where's the money do you have any money give me your money
36:43so I had some money that I had saved up from serving and I was also planning on
36:48buying a new cell phone because my contract was finishing with Rogers
36:54and the phone I'm currently using has
36:57not good reception so I had about two thousand dollars saved up
37:07and so I opened my drawer and I pointed at it and he picked it up and took the cash
37:14and put it in his pocket
37:21at this point he ties my hands behind my back
37:25and he walks me out okay so stop right there for a second okay I want you now that you've
37:31got him right there I want you to describe him to me what you can remember every little detail
37:45it's black dreadlocks
37:49how long are the drugs a boat show me on your on your on your own body where they where you
37:55would see about shoulder length Okay but there were long enough that they were able to move
38:05uh he's I would use medium build and he is slight when I was standing I was almost I level with him
38:20when he came up to me I'm about five seven okay
38:29clothing all I can remember is dark clothing
38:38you got to you've got a gun pointed at you yes and then he told okay uh the gun was black with
38:50um almost not a triangle but it kind of tapered a little on the handle and I would describe it as
39:03like um what I see on TV for like police officers kind of like I guess like a handgun sort of thing
39:13and the whole time he kept telling me to look down
39:21because my bedroom was dark but the hallway was lit so we kept telling me to look down look
39:30at this point any accent
39:34um not from this particular person does he sound like he was born and raised in Canada
39:42I'd say I would say that he was born in Canada but
39:47it's like there was no sign of an accent in his and that's what we mean culturally I'm talking
39:53about the language you know like you can tell someone who's spent a long time as a young age
39:57from starting because there is no it's it's normal normal speech is that what you're saying yes okay
40:06can you see anything on his hands uh he's wearing gloves what type of gloves uh black leather gloves
40:15now Now official experience before you tells you to look down do you see anything is he
40:21does wide nose as he got is his any pock marks any acne any facial hair
40:38really I could really make out is just the general shape of his face which is
40:42because the only thing I could the thing that caught my attention was
40:49done okay what about his facial what about what he looks like
40:55tell me about that you said about the site or the shape of his face
41:03round but it's it's not a narrow face I
41:12um
41:15is he didn't have like his cheeks weren't protruding but they were
41:22they're not like the normal people
41:34I was like almost like a roundish squarish face uh is cheeks he had cheeks it wasn't like like
41:46um what they call um the defined um the the cheekbones yes like it was it was almost like
41:53round before for like there was some meat there right like I wouldn't I wouldn't say
41:58fat like it wasn't like a protruding but it was there was no like definition okay
42:06and now this guy's age and I know it's very difficult to Define but um you know people age
42:12differently and they have different appearances where would you put this this guy very late
42:1920s to early 30s so but I would if I had to put numbers I'd say somewhere between 28 to about 33.
42:28if you saw a picture of this guy in a composite like on a profile do you think you could identify
42:37I wouldn't okay so everyone looked if everyone had dreadlocks and the face was very familiar
42:46I didn't get a very very clear look at his face because I'm sorry but the the only thing I could
42:55really see was that he had pointed that at me and
43:00now I think another possibility is just based on you if we sat you in front of a composite drawer
43:06it sounds like you could give them some some raw information that might be able to help in
43:11that area Okay so if you can't do that I do that that one's still available okay so now he's uh
43:18you've given he's taken your money where and where exactly where's your money located uh uh TV's on
43:27a table and I keep it in a little book uh a day planner but I don't use it for day planning
43:35um it was a gift from friends what are you wearing right now
43:39um what I was to go to bed I'm wearing my black pants and an old figure skating sweater that I
43:50had gotten describe the sweater to me like what is it does it have pockets does it have a hood
43:55does it is it just a sweater no it's just a like a slip-on sweater no hood no pockets
44:00okay so when you get off the phone with Edward and you're saying where does this phone go I stick it
44:06right here on the back side of my pants back side of your pants yes so in the waistband yes okay
44:16you open the door you see this figure he's coming he's taking the money and the bed the nightstand
44:21is on what side of your bed if you're looking at that if you're looking at the front of your bed
44:25this way where is the nightstand it's in front of my bed okay so it's right beside the door yes
44:35the the nightstand the TV and my bed is along towards the TV to watch did he take anything else
44:44from your room not when I was there was there not when you were there no okay did he toss your room
44:55I don't while you were there no okay so he takes you your your let outside out
45:02of the hallway now and what happens and are the lights in the hallway still on
45:09yes but he's telling me to look down okay and at this point now he's behind me he had grabbed me
45:15at the shirt and he had pulled me in front of him and that was pushing me towards the stairs okay
45:27what does he say he keeps yelling hurry up hurry up
45:35do what we're saying and no one will get hurt
45:40okay
45:49and then he takes me down the stairs and the lights on the main floor all turned off
45:58we take
46:03my stairs are a little curved and we just went he sat he made me push me down
46:10but my shoulders and told me to sit on the floor do you feel the gun is he using his hand he's
46:17using his hand to lead me down the stairs and force me to sit down I'll only one hand okay
46:24you see the gun again at this point I'm looking down and he's behind me so I don't see his gun
46:32um but I can see there's two other shadows and I can see
46:40from where I was standing my father was sitting on the right and my mother was sitting on the left
46:45sitting where on a couch on our couch sitting on the couch are they looking out towards you
46:53oh their backs are towards me okay and you're now on the ground level are you on the floor or on the
46:59sitting on the floor I'm sitting on the floor all right where are your hands they had tied my
47:04hands so let's go inside let's go back up to the stairs remember we said take the other statement
47:09and whatever we said before I I said it earlier okay then we must let's let's get back to that
47:14area I think you might have touched on it we went back into the description so where does you where
47:18do you get your hands tied and where does the string come from I'm not sure where the string
47:23comes from but he had the string okay and he after I gave him my money that's when he tied my hands
47:32how did that happen where were you in the room in the hallway where he told me to sit down on
47:37the edge of my bed yes and that's when I opened he showed he told me show me and I pulled open
47:47my my drawer my dresser and he saw the money and he picked it up
47:54my book and then he opened up the book and grabbed the cash put in his pocket okay
48:00at this point he still has a gun pointing towards me and he
48:12you're doing great you're doing fabulous okay so he's got the gun pointed at you
48:20and how do the hands get behind your back he told me to put my hands behind my okay
48:29continue
48:40I believe he had
48:48I'm sorry I'm just trying to be 100 certain and it's just
48:51it's pieces them they roll through them we'll put the pieces together
48:58I you've got the money out of the drawer open the drawers
49:02you put it in his pocket I'm sitting on my bed yes
49:06and he had told me to put my hands behind my back okay
49:12but it was dark so I believe he told me to stand up so he could tie my hands together
49:21and I was trying to
49:24make it loose so I could I could do something but he had pulled him so tight
49:32and he made sure I squealed before he
49:37before he let go is your TV on okay my TV's on the whole time okay
49:48so you've squealed they're tight and they're behind your back and that's when he grabs me
49:52and starts leading me down the stairs does he pat you down or search you or do anything okay snow
49:58because if he had Pat me down he would have found my phone okay so you you're now down at the bottom
50:05of the stairs you at this point in time you've only seen one person or have you seen the others
50:09before you get to the bottom before I get to the bottom of the stairs I had seen one person okay
50:17so now you're at the bottom of the stairs and he keeps telling these guys to hurry up hurry
50:21up is taking too long and he he told me I looked down but I was able to see out of my peripheral
50:40a man that I will call number three because I associated with him the least
50:47he had a gun
50:52pointed at my father
50:56asking him if he had money in his wallet and where the money was in the house
51:04and he asked my father how much he had in his wallet and my father answered him sixty
51:10dollars and he kept yelling you better not be lying to me is there more where is the rest
51:18and
51:22another person who was hiding behind the wall in the kitchen from Where I
51:28Stood I couldn't see him at first he had was asking my mother where her purse was
51:35so hang on a second who is this is this another another guy is this number a number you've gone
51:40from a number one to a number three yes I I call this guy number two okay so number three
51:45let's stick with number three what what can you describe of him if anything including the gun
51:54I can only see that there was a round uh kind of like a revolver that's okay remember if you
52:04have to stop and take some deep breaths that really does help the process foreign
52:09I believe a revolver it's like one of those things you see in old old western movies
52:22and he had I could just see uh almost like a silhouette of it from the light
52:29uh coming through the the curtains so in proximity now you're looking through the peripheral okay
52:37is it you're looking right or left from where you are
52:40right you're looking right so you're looking over here to the right okay and you can see
52:46your back so your mom and dad who are sitting on the couch yes can you see what they're wearing
52:52see what my father's wearing can you see what your mom's wearing
52:57at that point in time I couldn't see what my mother's wearing it was later on that I
53:01saw what she was wearing okay so we'll go on to later on then so there you can see them in the
53:07back and where is the silhouette in relation to your mom and dad standing in front of my father
53:14so is is a house this the what what lights are on on the ground level
53:21he they cracked open the fridge a few times for light but
53:26the only light on the main floor was the one shining through the windows and doors
53:34the this number three guy you hear him speak what is what do you what do you
53:39notice about or know about his his um that the words he's speaking accent if any it's um
53:52he's not he wasn't the accent's not what I normally hear
53:57it was almost Caribbean like Jamaican or Guyanese and like that kind of accent yep um
54:09have you got friends who like reason I ask you is is the Jamaican accent or the Guyanese
54:14accent have you got friends who have that accent that you recognize it growing up there was uh
54:20growing up one of my friends was from guy Guyana and uh
54:26I remember vaguely like when his parents came for her school functions it was sort of something like
54:35that so it's tweaking you to some a care like a Western Caribbean Island area like Jamaica or
54:42or um Guyana some something like that okay so you hear him talk and he describe his
54:49silhouette to me what you see of it all I could see is that he's slim and tall
54:57again I was sitting on the floor but no race he it was dark but I
55:07you can't put a race to him would not with I don't want to put a race with
55:11voice I want a race by color could not see it was dark I think okay
55:20and now number two okay you say that doors fridge doors where does he come into play
55:26where do you first see him I first see him when he's asking my mother where her purse is
55:34they kept telling us that if we just cooperated everything would be okay
55:39so she just just to interrupt you because we I want to stay on get back to three before we
55:44move on to two is is three when is it is number three how is his interaction with your father when
55:49he's telling him about demanding the money and the only money in the lying to him is this like is he
55:56talking in a low monotone voice or is he yelling at him how is the how's the interaction going
56:05a Stern voice Stern but not screaming
56:10not angry okay so I interrupted you now back to number two where he's asking your mum for
56:19her wall her purse her purse at first and this is at the point where my mother stands up
56:30at this point in the night obviously uh and what is she wearing
56:35she's still wearing her Winnie the Pooh pajamas as she was when I had come down earlier okay
56:45all I could see was that he had pushed her back onto the couch and she pushed her number two okay
56:55pushing her back onto the couch and she kept saying where's my purse where's my purse
57:02I think I kept telling her to sit down and I didn't want my mom to get hurt
57:11how many times does she get up and get pushed back down
57:21I'd say she got up
57:27and then they told it's the first time she stepped back and sat down but the second time she was
57:33pushed back onto the couch this is only by number two because number one was standing behind me
57:39is he saying anything during this process he keeps uttering that we have to hurry up
57:47it's taking too long that's at that point that's he kept saying hurry up
57:54it's taking too long is there any other demands from either two or three or one about uh about
58:02wallet or purse is there any other two was the one talking to my father asking about his wallet
58:09and number one and he kept saying where's the rest of the money and where's the purse was
58:15coming from number one number one behind you I thought what number number two didn't speak
58:23okay well you just said number two is the one who's making demands no he's the one looking
58:28okay he's the one looking so number two as we we're stepping back to because I don't want to
58:33confuse this thing I want to slow it down no no no don't be sorry we're just gonna slow it
58:38down okay you're you're getting agitated and and and um you're anxious so we're gonna slow
58:45things down again because it's very important in this area right as you had said that number two
58:52talks to your mom and says where's your purse okay pushes her down so now you said that number two
59:00didn't speak so let's clarify that what I meant was number one had asked her where her purse was
59:05and she was mumbling where's my purse and number two was the one that pushed her so your number
59:11number one is talking to your mum from behind you okay where's your purse where's your purse yes
59:20number two number two steps forward and that's when my mom steps back and sits down
59:28as number two uttered a word at this point in time can't remember hearing
59:35so we're just correcting what you said earlier because you said earlier that it was number two
59:39who was asking where the purse is what are the purse is and now you've said now it's number one
59:44guy who would initially no no it's all a purpose but the purpose here is clarifying
59:50what you're saying so number one number one is the one who's doing
59:55the talking about the purse number three is focused on your dad's wall
1:00:01okay number two pushes your mom back into place into the scene now at this point in time can you
1:00:07see number two can you see his description at this point in time all I could see is a hoodie
1:00:13and slim build hoodie and slim build do you see a gun on him I'm on the floor I can't see what
1:00:21like what his hands were doing when you say you're on the floor how are you on the floor how are you
1:00:26what are you what's your position are you lying on the floor are you sitting on the floor I'm
1:00:30sitting on the floor cross-legged when with the number one behind me okay so you've now
1:00:42um you've now got your dad like who's told him about the wallet upstairs was sixty dollars you
1:00:49got your mom who's they're asking about a purse from number one let's go from there
1:00:58how is your mom dealing with this when she's getting up and getting
1:01:01pushed back down is she responding to them is she talking to them
1:01:05she keeps saying because they keep uttering if you cooperate no one will get hurt and
1:01:16she keeps asking herself where's my purse where's my purse in English
1:01:27and then I believe she remembers that she didn't take a purse so she only had a wallet that day
1:01:35after she came home she had a wallet
1:01:39she's trying to find it and number two was looking around for it anything to look for
1:01:46that the second time that's when she stood up to help and that's when she got pushed back down okay
1:01:55are they bound do you see their hands or my mother when she got up I she was not found okay so do
1:02:03they direct number two to wear this per where the wallet is or does he find it that you know
1:02:10I don't know okay so then what happens and then number one tells me to stand up
1:02:19and because I'm crossing on the floor I with my hands behind my back I couldn't get up very well
1:02:25and so he kind of he was one hand he kind of pulled me up
1:02:33and he said come here he didn't say who or what he just said come here
1:02:43and he brought me upstairs he said you're gonna take me to the wallet show me where
1:02:49your father's wallet where does he keep his wallet
1:03:01and at this point number two had come upstairs
1:03:05and since he was upstairs
1:03:09I'm just turning this off because it's going number two sorry sir let's start there hang on
1:03:13a second again come with me come with me they take me to my parents room and I can see the
1:03:19bed is turned over and everything's awry and you're with um number one is still behind me
1:03:26yes and number two at that point is on his way up okay so he's not up there yet okay do
1:03:33you hear any interaction going on between your parents and number three can you hear anything
1:03:46I don't recall anything okay so you get to the top of the stairs takes me to my parents standing
1:03:54go away like in the middle of the doorway and then you push me aside to my left a little so
1:04:00that number two can come in okay you get a good look at number two now of what he's wearing
1:04:06you could tell was he had a vest and his face was
1:04:15a dark hoodie okay was there anything on his face or was there could you see his face
1:04:21again he kept telling me to keep my head down and every time I tried to he used his hand and he'd
1:04:27because he had me by my shoulder he kind of just let go for a second push my head down to make
1:04:32sure I wouldn't look up okay is the where you know what the like what the lights you said are in the
1:04:37hallway upstairs were on are they on still yes okay when you're looking down can you see what
1:04:42number one is wearing on his pants or his shoes he was not directly behind me and I was there
1:04:51was just so much in front of me that had happened and I don't recall okay so where are you facing if
1:05:00you're at the doorway when you're looking in are the lights to your mom and dad's room on are you
1:05:06now facing into the room and what do you see you said you saw the bed turned up so it turned so the
1:05:13room has been rummaged through is is what you're is that the state of your parents room okay it was
1:05:22and when you say you move to the left are you still able to look inside the bedroom
1:05:28where do they have you look where are you looking now almost like I'm right beside the wall and my
1:05:33parents have a my mother has a sewing table there okay so I'm just kind of staring at I'm
1:05:40like looking down at the table peripherals you can't see where he's no and where is number one
1:05:48at this point he's still behind me okay so what's going on inside the room with number
1:05:53two now in there he's looking for my parents my father's jeans and he's asking me where is it
1:05:59but I don't know where it is because they had turned the room around
1:06:04and then number one pulled me backwards and told me to sit at the top of the banister
1:06:13and tied my hands back uh tied my arm to the banister okay now did did you
1:06:20see them recover anything inside your mom and dad's room I did not see anything no
1:06:27are you sure because uh we would when we spoke the
1:06:30last time there was some mention of some other money that went missing
1:06:44they're uh
1:06:48yes the U.S currency so how did that get found
1:07:04I believe when they were looking for my father's wallet they had opened the drawer
1:07:10and there was a it was in an envelope what drawer would that have been in on my on the if you're in
1:07:18at the door where we're all standing on the left side the bedside table whose side of the bed is
1:07:25it that's my mother's side and approximately how much money I'm not sure how much she took trip
1:07:40estimate about a few hundred dollars a few hundred
1:07:42because at the time the last time you told me you were pretty adamant about
1:07:46eleven hundred dollars so I'm curious to know how you came up with that number
1:07:54foreign ER we and we stopped at the duty-free my mother was deciding
1:08:02whether to use her U.S currency or her U.S currency or her Canadian currency
1:08:10so it was at that time you remember hearing eleven hundred dollars and that's what is that
1:08:15the inference you're saying is that because you're pretty solid saying that it was eleven
1:08:19hundred dollars it went missing that course it was taken and that you saw it when we spoke
1:08:31and who took it Who took possession of the money I'm sorry it's all right
1:08:40were you ever inside the room did they ever take you inside
1:08:43the room did you ever make it past the threshold of that door
1:08:57foreign
1:09:01so let's come back to now you're being taken to the the banister in
1:09:06the oven don't apologize okay I'm gonna try and ask you questions to
1:09:10try and clarify points okay if you don't remember you don't remember
1:09:16okay so don't there's no apologizing the only reason you would apologize to me is you've lied to
1:09:21me okay so then in this case then don't apologize to me it's okay okay I'm gonna ask you questions
1:09:28to clarify points so you're at the bit you've been taken back to the banister who is there
1:09:34number one talking about okay where's number two we're still in the bedroom okay
1:09:42how do you get tied to this banister
1:09:53number one number two had come out of come out of the room and he had told number two
1:10:06go get cuzzy for this drink uh no it was go get cuz
1:10:18he has said that I need a string go get cuz
1:10:24and number two ran down the stairs and he came back up shortly after and then
1:10:44and I believe number two was the one that tied me up because number one was still holding the
1:10:49gun in front of me so number one is now in front of you he has been in front of me
1:10:54since he pulled me out of the bedroom okay and he sat me down and he was in front of me May
1:10:59or I was down so on this gun that you're looking at that's in front of you is there can you see
1:11:04what type of gun is it does it have a cylinder or a round thing like an old gun or does it look
1:11:08like more like uh it just reminded me of the like television police like the handguns yeah
1:11:18it's black can you see from there now you're in front of them and you're looking down can
1:11:23you see your shoes can you see anything else about them I want you to think right now just
1:11:27sort of it's tough to put yourself back in that spot but you've never
1:11:31been tied up I suspect or bound like that and now you're sitting there staring down
1:11:35and can you is there anything that you remember about his shoes or his pants
1:11:48any idea where this string came from does it does it when you're
1:11:52you're seeing it come around because it's now lit does it look like it's come from
1:11:57some from clothing or from shoes that you might have in your house
1:12:03or you don't know
1:12:06it just looked like a black shoelace I
1:12:11okay
1:12:13any any interaction any communication going on between you and number one
1:12:17and number two while this is being while you're being bound
1:12:21my mother's calling for me okay and I keep saying that just shut up
1:12:31who's saying that to who number three is downstairs and she's
1:12:35telling her to shut up she's telling her to shut up what's your dad doing
1:12:41okay
1:12:45you're now bound to this to the to the railing can you show me can you stand
1:12:50up and turn around and tell me just show on the camera how your hands are bound
1:12:55and how you are against the railing you don't have to sit down I just need to see how you work
1:13:07tell you the only reason that I'm trying to I need to do this is that I'm also going to
1:13:12ask you is that it's so take this back to from take it out of a traumatizing event which it
1:13:17is and put yourself into a more clinical position because I want to see how you could physically get
1:13:23your phone out of your waistband we're obviously going to need to know that it's very important so
1:13:28traumatize a wide way now put yourself into a just a state of I need to mechanically show how
1:13:34I can get access to my phone okay because that's obviously very relevant we know
1:13:39you made the phone call but questions are going to obviously raise is that
1:13:43if my hands are bound and I'm against the railing how do I talk to a 9-1-1 operator
1:13:49so clinically this is now a clinical demonstration just stand up focus in on how you did it
1:14:02stick that in your waistband as an example okay so take your just take your sweat off
1:14:07because this will be a very smooth very quick thing it's a one-time demonstration I'm not
1:14:11going to ask you to repeat it but I need to go through it okay so just take your sweater off
1:14:25stand up and turn around put this in the side that you believe it was in
1:14:32great turn around so that you only you're looking away from
1:14:36me you're looking exactly like now here is where the banister is put
1:14:40your hands back behind your back face yeah exactly how you remember they were
1:14:44okay now and are you restrained from movement how far can you move your hands from the banister
1:14:53my upper arm Mister yes but my hands are bound together so your hands bound
1:15:00together and this is the arm that's the the strings wrapped around against the banister
1:15:04okay so now how can you get to the phone
1:15:10and how do you make the phone call
1:15:15911 and do you talk down like that yes I'm yelling at the phone like this and how can you hear
1:15:24I turned the volume on Max yes so that's exactly the way that you're talking to
1:15:30her against the railing okay that's good enough sit down put your sweater back on
1:15:41yeah
1:15:43you want it you want some more water
1:15:49I really appreciate that obviously it's very important to see it because we can't put you
1:15:53either we it would be absolutely physically impossible to put you back into the same
1:15:59position but we just needed to see how you get the phone out and and make the call
1:16:13okay so sit back take a couple of deep breaths again
1:16:20when you're when you're up against the railing and now you've been bound and is number two and
1:16:32number one still there or are they gone number one was there for a little bit number two random
1:16:42he's saying you obeyed
1:16:47and just shut up and don't move
1:16:53and he continues yelling downstairs hurry up hurry up it's taking too long hurry up
1:17:06now tell me something okay which is kind of important
1:17:12there's a safe in the house is there none
1:17:18safe is in a fairly visible place within within your parents bedroom is it not
1:17:26it's inside their closet fairly visible according to at least from the pitchers
1:17:33was there ever mention of wanting the combination to that safe
1:17:42through any of the interaction of one two and three did they know that there was a safe in place
1:17:49I don't I I'm not aware if they knew
1:17:55I didn't so you never heard any of them demanding the safe the the um the combination to the safe
1:18:06was there anything else they were demanding in their yelling it was
1:18:09was it was it what was the focus of what they were looking for cash
1:18:18okay so number one's talking to you you obeyed and we need to go we need to go
1:18:29and where does he go from that point in time he's yelling down the stairs
1:18:34is there more and number two I can just hear him muffling something I I
1:18:41don't hear him clearly number two or number three I'm sorry number three number three
1:18:49number three okay
1:18:54but I can't I can't hear what he's saying okay
1:19:03at this point I started hearing my parents get up and they're moving and my mom's yelling
1:19:10with my daughter I want my daughter where's my daughter I'm yelling your mom I'm here
1:19:19are they saying anything to your parents
1:19:25you
1:19:28bring to you they saying anything
1:19:37like are they giving them directions as to where they're going
1:19:53foreign
1:20:02okay
1:20:06so you hear them get up and you're moving and they're moving to in what direction
1:20:17are you still hearing one and two or one and three are you hearing all three of them
1:20:22number one and what's he saying hurry up is there more
1:20:36okay at this point he throws my glasses
1:20:45and he walks down the stairs so he's still up there with you
1:20:50Wendy and and at this so you've had your glasses on the whole time when does he take them off right
1:20:55before he leaves right after so you're you're tied to the banister you're just before he leaves to go
1:21:01down the stairs your glasses are off you have had your glasses on the whole time prior to that okay
1:21:11so now you hear your parents up and they're moving towards the basement do you what do you hear
1:21:19it's the rest of the money
1:21:25whose voice
1:21:28the one with the Caribbean accent number three who we've called number three where's the rest of the
1:21:35money is that as your as you hear your parents moving I can hear them stepping down the stairs
1:21:43and then after number one joins them after he took my glasses
1:21:50you heard him go down the stairs as well number one then left me yes and he went
1:21:56down the stairs and I asked my mom was still calling for me and I wanted to go and he says no
1:22:08okay hang on a second hang on
1:22:14so number you hear number one say no to your response to your demand of wanting to go do
1:22:20you hear the questions coming or your mom saying where is she where is she are she starting to make
1:22:25her are they starting to go down to the basement are they on the stairs leading to the basement
1:22:30can you hear I'm I'm going to ask you to focus in because it's very difficult I'm
1:22:35going to ask you to focus in are you hearing all of them going downstairs
1:22:40can you hear that many footsteps that's five sets of steps
1:22:51because if your mom is moving down to the basement with these guys and number one is walking down to
1:22:55join them he would be but he would be later he'd be walking down does he go down to the basement
1:23:01or do you know
1:23:05can't tell
1:23:11Jennifer take it Kleenex in this take a minute
1:23:31okay so we're now down in the basement they're down in the video no your parents are down in the
1:23:37basement you don't know who's down there with them you can't tell how many people went down
1:23:43you know that number one left and was heading in down in that direction but you don't know if you
1:23:47buy footsteps Who's down there that's all right whose voices can you hear now down in the basement
1:24:01just number three say you lied there's more where is it you lied you're lying
1:24:16okay and then what do you hear
1:24:20foreign
1:24:45I heard pop and then my mom I heard her squeal so do you hear one pop or do you hear two
1:24:55I can't remember then don't it's one or two okay and then you hear your mom squeal
1:25:04and then what do you hear
1:25:11another one or two pops do you hear any voices in between other than your mom's squealing do
1:25:16you hear number three say anything oh I can remember calling for her okay
1:25:24don't apologize okay this is nothing to feel to apologize to me for this isn't
1:25:29something that you're trying to remember so you heard a pop you heard your mum squeal
1:25:35and then you heard another any idea how many more Pops you heard
1:25:43I just remember that I heard one or two and then there was a slight break
1:25:50and there was one more I don't remember if it was two in the break and then one or if it was
1:25:57one and I break and then one okay so you're saying that you heard a total of how many pops guessing
1:26:10four or five four five okay so you hear after those pops
1:26:16popping noises what do you hear after the last popping noise you've heard what do you hear
1:26:30that's it it's too long let's go okay I didn't hear a bunch of foot's going
1:26:42does it sound like they're obviously coming does it sound coming up the stairs
1:26:47do you know where they leave
1:27:00I believe they went out the front door okay but I couldn't see anything I just it's what
1:27:06I heard it's what you're hearing what else do you hear next have you heard was the door closed
1:27:21clothes yes once I heard him starting to move
1:27:24I that's when I pulled up the phone and I was trying to call 9-1-1 okay
1:27:35did you hear after you hear that's it let's go do you
1:27:38hear any more communication between the three guys
1:27:51okay
1:27:59okay so you're dialing 9-1-1 you've called the police you know you're on
1:28:03the phone with the dispatcher you're updating them as to what goes on
1:28:10my I hear my dad going out the door and he's like yelling on this tree
1:28:17okay and I'm calling for him but there's badly I'm trying to
1:28:28so when the officers arrive
1:28:33you get untied
1:28:50do you remember at first they were all outside and I I was screaming for them yeah
1:28:58finally someone heard me they came up the stairs
1:29:08they had to check all the rooms first but I just wanted them to get me out I said he's never
1:29:22so they how did they get you free foreign
1:29:33but the officer said to wait a few minutes because he didn't know how to
1:29:37how to do it procedure I wanted to get out I think it was near my dad
1:29:52he cut me he let me go but he he cut had to
1:30:06now you when you took you off your sweater to show me the demonstration there's still some
1:30:11marks on your arm are those the marks from the string no where are they from
1:30:19before so history wise we'll go into that okay so now as an event as to try and see this is the uh
1:30:32the little epis the little technique that we use to try and see if there's something during the
1:30:37course of what you've told me that boom I trigger something another memory okay we're gonna start
1:30:45right now we're going to start at the point that you're being you're the officers arrive
1:30:50okay and we're going backwards not nearly as I don't need you to go into the we're not going
1:30:56to be stopping here and going through to what about this and what about this it's you may come
1:31:01across something it's the reverse chronology of what you just described okay leading us back to
1:31:10time you're in upstairs talking to Edward so I want you to start right now with your police
1:31:17officers arrive and they're cutting you free and now let's start going backwards from that
1:31:49okay just don't want to see wrong things don't this is don't worry about saying wrong things
1:31:59because you'll be CL you'll be correct in a measure moving moving backwards okay it's
1:32:04a very well practiced technique to help in memories so especially in traumatic events
1:32:18so my dad was he had been out the door yes
1:32:25and he was moaning
1:32:35and just before that they had left the the people had left
1:33:06number one had said been too long
1:33:23before that was a gunshot
1:33:31before that they were scolding my dad for life and
1:33:34since there was more money and he wasn't telling them where it was
1:33:56before that
1:34:02they were going down
1:34:09you're doing great doing great
1:34:18before that they were going down the stairs
1:34:22but I can just hear my parents footsteps and my mom so I don't know how many of them went down
1:34:33but I know for sure number one was upstairs with me while they were starting to go down and then
1:34:40number one that's when like he was taking off my glasses and that's when he went down the stairs
1:35:08before that
1:35:14they tied me
1:35:28before that number two was upstairs as well
1:35:33you was helping number one timey the banister
1:35:39before that number one turned to number two and said go get I need get me the string go get cuts
1:35:55that's when number two went down the stairs and came back up with the string
1:36:12before that
1:36:15number one had taken me and told me to sit down the top of the stairs
1:36:24number two was still in the bedroom
1:36:54before that
1:37:16we were in my parents room and he was asking about the wallet where's my dad's wallet
1:37:43don't worry about it keep going I don't remember
1:37:56before that we always downstairs
1:38:00and they're looking for my mom's purse
1:38:06number three was asking about the wallet number two was looking for my mom's purse
1:38:13my mom kept standing up and sitting down and they pushed her number
1:38:36for that I was in my room
1:38:45that's when he tied me up
1:38:56but before that I showed him the money before that I had heard them toss my parents room and
1:39:04that's when I looked out no the guy went down the stairs and then I looked out
1:39:14that's when he came and he pulled out his gun and told me to sit on my bed
1:39:22before that I heard my mom tell my dad to come downstairs
1:39:31and that's when I told Ed I'd call him back and put my phone
1:39:36my phone in my back
1:39:41is that okay yes when you said um that you saw during this process you heard the steps
1:39:49of the guy someone going downstairs did you hear your father going down the stairs
1:39:54whatever at that point in time
1:40:07I heard him get out of his room
1:40:12but then that's when I was telling Ed that I'd call him back
1:40:16he was responding to your mom's command yes
1:40:24okay
1:40:27in your kitchen
1:40:31there is
1:40:34rear sliding doors these are not and you're in the
1:40:39back area I had to get out to the back of your house is it sliding glass doors
1:40:46how is that normally how do you what is the normal position of of the blinds or or
1:40:52whatever when you during the day do you keep them covered are they exposed can you easily
1:40:57have access to get out to the backyard or do you have to open them like how is the normal routine
1:41:08it differs from
1:41:13it differs from time of day and time of year um my mom
1:41:27my mother likes to plant so in the daytime we have our blinds open
1:41:35they're all the way out but they're open to let sunlight in
1:41:39and at night we close them because of our backyard Neighbors okay
1:41:48the sliding glass door is it locked all the time
1:41:54occasionally it's forgotten to be locked but for the most part we do check it before we go to bed
1:42:04before everybody the last person is supposed to check everything before turning in but on
1:42:09some occasions it's how do you know that it's been unlocked when my mother goes out
1:42:15to water the plants the next morning it's open she makes a comment about that she comments to
1:42:21my father that he had forgotten when he went out to water his grass and the night before
1:42:27what about your front door how do you what is that when you guys are home or when you guys are
1:42:34home in the house do you lock your front door do you keep it or do you keep it all unlocked
1:42:41occasionally it's left unlock
1:42:49the way our family is we have family that come over after dinner so sometimes we leave the
1:42:53door unlocked but it will always be locked before bed the last person going into bed
1:42:58the last person always likes it and you said something about activates the alarm as well we
1:43:07activate the alarm before we go well we leave the house so there's it's not activated when
1:43:12you're in the house and you're going to bed it's only when there's no one in the house
1:43:19um
1:43:27when was the last time that you went out through the back
1:43:29the back sliding glass doors that you remember
1:43:38for a while I'd say the only time I go back there is if I'm barbecuing
1:43:50um the occasion my mom needs help carrying a
1:43:58she needs help carrying something heavy okay
1:44:03what about a stranger's knock on your door
1:44:09whoever's downstairs normally goes to answer it they look out or will
1:44:16they just open the door no uh they tried to look through the sheerness of our curtain
1:44:24would you have you ever heard your mom or dad like if there's someone at the door who they
1:44:27don't recognize to go away and they won't open the door or will they always open the door to
1:44:31find out who even if they don't recognize someone well they well they had to go as
1:44:35quietly as possible and if they don't like a telemarketer or something they just walk
1:44:42okay so I think we've if there's something else that I can that'll that pops into my head while
1:44:51or when I go out to talk to them later if there's something else that they want to
1:44:55ask me I'll come back to it what I want to do now is I want to go into your past okay
1:45:05and start talking about things that have been going on with you in in relation to your life okay
1:45:14you know not I'm not going back to Childhood that's not my interest is
1:45:19obviously in the last few years is what's going on do you have a boyfriend
1:45:26I had a boyfriend but no I don't have one what's your what's your what was
1:45:30your boyfriend's name Daniel Daniel what tell me about your relationship with you and Daniel
1:45:38it was a really tough one
1:45:44we went to high school together he helped me through a really difficult time in high school
1:45:50um when I I have asthma but it it wasn't a concern I was only a concern I was younger
1:45:59but when I went over to Europe
1:46:03a lot of sick people were smoking cigarettes and it acted up over
1:46:07there and he took care of me over there when did you go to Europe
1:46:132003 okay and how long were you there for
1:46:20under two weeks I think okay so this is 2003 when you and Danny were started dating
1:46:27no well we were just friends okay what grade were you in at that point 11.
1:46:36so how does your relationship with Danny develop where does it go and how long does it last
1:46:42Ed about six years
1:46:46um it began in the summer of 2003 before my grade 12 year uh we were just really good friends and
1:46:55I guess it just been like we just started going out well saying that we were going out but
1:47:05I didn't really get to see him much let's talk about that why didn't you get the chance to
1:47:09see him much I wasn't allowed to have a boyfriend and that was when you were 18.
1:47:17I was 17. 17 turning in your 18th year we're going into grade 12. okay
1:47:25and uh so who was against you having a boyfriend your father how is your mother in this
1:47:37to his opinion um she would tell me that I'm going to find someone who was devoted to me
1:47:46at that time she just my father was the one that enforced the rules and what were the issues your
1:47:52father had with a boyfriend was it Danny in particular or was it just a boy just any boy
1:47:57at that point so what happens how are you saying that you're not allowed to see this what what I
1:48:05know I know that there's certain ways that you can still get around your father not allowing
1:48:11you to see it when in grade 12. we went to school together he transferred out um but he'd come over
1:48:17uh to our original high school and he'd come see me okay and once in a while I'd go and skip class
1:48:26and go see him so you were seeing you were dating him essentially without your parents knowledge and
1:48:32consent yes what would they have done to you if they have found out and did they find out not in
1:48:39high school no okay so you finish high school and then what do you do when you finish High School
1:48:49I was I wanted to do kinesiology but my my father was very adamant on doing
1:48:58something in the medical field that was a little bit more um in his opinion more
1:49:08like a more successful I guess you can say um he knew I didn't have the stomach for being a doctor
1:49:15um so he wanted me to become a pharmacist okay did you go to school for pharmacy to get into
1:49:20University for pharmacy so if you're you finish your grade 12 you go to Hawaii your OIC here
1:49:28that grade 12 is your finished your OIC here I don't have always I didn't have OAC I finished
1:49:33my grade 12. and then where where do you what do you do for the next few years well your
1:49:38dads want you to get into the medical field what do you do I was trying to get into piano
1:49:44what school I I was still taking classes at a conservative like a a school but I still
1:49:50recognized in the community as a teacher's license through the Royal Conservatory yes
1:49:55Okay so how is this interaction how is this going with your dad how is the how
1:50:02is your home life with the you're not now not living up to his expectations you didn't know
1:50:08I lied to him what did you lie to him what did you tell him that I was going to school
1:50:14four uh for just Prem not pre-med sorry science for science Bachelor of Science
1:50:22you would have had bills for school how was how was that coming up how are these bills
1:50:26being paid for for University that you weren't going to I was working at Eastside Marios and
1:50:32I took care of myself so financially my father was never he never took hand in bills
1:50:42so he didn't know anything about pills did your mom know that you weren't going to University no
1:50:47so both your parents thought you had gone to University yes
1:50:53yes and um how long did that how long did they still to this
1:50:57point in time think that you had gone to University for for pharmacy for Sciences
1:51:04and how did you feel about that how did you feel about having to lie to your parents
1:51:10I felt guilty but every time I tried to bring it up
1:51:16there was just so much so much expectation
1:51:24did you have any resentment towards them for this
1:51:28I chose what I chose but in the end I chose my family
1:51:34Okay so now you're not allowed to see boys how do you continue really your relationship while you're
1:51:41supposed to be at University working at Eastside Mario's are you working during the deities
1:51:45um sometimes but not all the time
1:51:49so how do how do you maintain this relationship with with Dan I I'd bust down to see him or
1:51:56my parents would drive me down to Toronto and they thought I was getting going to school but
1:52:03I'd go see him and I'd come back what school did they think you're going to right okay um
1:52:11was Daniel aware of what was going on in here with the issues in your life with your parents not at
1:52:16first but eventually he found okay and um what would your parents do find out did they ever find
1:52:26out that you were dating Danny Daniel eventually well how long into the relationship was that
1:52:31say five years five years so that brings you up to 2008 or 2009 2008 to 8 2007 2000 yeah
1:52:42how do they find out
1:52:45my mother saw him dropping me off
1:52:49the location uh Pacific Mall where they come to pick me up and how did that go over
1:52:56not well explain to me what not well means
1:53:05my mother she said At first she was like not supportive but she said you need to tell me
1:53:16and she basically gave me the
1:53:20um the sex talk which basically was one moment could ruin your entire life
1:53:27um but once my father found out without even knowing him he automatically
1:53:33put judgment what kind of judgment did your father pass on him he blamed My Lying
1:53:45oh um profiling on him and what does that mean I don't know about the racial profile
1:53:53he is half Filipino half Chinese yes and my father Associated him with Filipino and
1:54:01said that you know he wasn't a good match for me he wasn't going anywhere in life and
1:54:09that he wouldn't be able to support a family
1:54:16so tell me about about Daniel we've interviewed Daniel okay so tell me about Daniel
1:55:44he was I believe uh selling selling selling some marijuana I believe okay you weren't aware that he
1:55:54was up to this type of business is that what you're is that what you're saying to me yes
1:55:59so um when he is
1:56:04when your parents find out what happens to you at home
1:56:10they pretty much make sure that I wouldn't contact him again and how do they do that they take away
1:56:20my cell phone and restrict internet access like they have to be in the room or not at all
1:56:29do you have a curfew if I go out with a friend that they know I have to be home before nine
1:56:36before nine o'clock yes and is that even up until Monday did you have a curfew up until Monday
1:56:45technically but I don't I haven't gone out and why is it that you haven't gone April
1:56:52because they gave me an ultimatum either choose
1:57:00or two about a year and a half ago and I chose to stay home with my family
1:57:06but even though he had moved on I we still wanted to be friends
1:57:14we went through a lot I was there for him and he was there for me when we needed each other
1:57:20so I whenever I could I would sneak a phone call here a sneak a phone call there I'd ask
1:57:27a friend of mine to pick me up and to take me to see him and then take me back who is that friend
1:57:35uh Gary look Gary Gary Gibson uh I met Gary through Daniel
1:57:43and he he picked me up and took me to see Daniel and he made sure I got home afterwards
1:57:51so tell me about uh how come your parents allow you to speak to Edward or to Adrian in
1:57:58fact allow Adrian into the house Adrian has been a friend of mine since uh beginning of high school
1:58:07um he my parents agree with his how do I explain this he went to school for engineering
1:58:19he has a job and his mother was is a piano teacher as well like myself
1:58:27so in their eyes he had like a well a well-rounded life and because he didn't he took me out once
1:58:38like once in a while but not really but because he he has a car of his own so he
1:58:45comes over therefore they were able to interact with him and accepted him okay what about Edward
1:58:53um Edward was an old co-worker of mine um Edward only met my mom once at a gym at when we went to
1:59:01the gym I introduced him to my mom but he he only stops by while my parents are not home
1:59:10for about like an hour or so just to catch up but I haven't gone out to actually like
1:59:17we talk on the phone but that's pretty much I tried to meet him at the gym but that's so
1:59:23for the last year and a half since you chose the ultimatum was given to you as you in your words
1:59:29it's either Daniel and or your family yes and you say that you chose your family and you stayed home
1:59:36what have you been when when you say I stayed home what is your routine tell me for the last
1:59:42year and a half what what have you been doing I'm continuing my piano studies and my parents
1:59:52who at first I didn't have enough marks to get into the program I wanted so I had to do one
1:59:59year of uh like refresher course of a calculus High School Credit and they never said to you
2:00:07you can get in and graduate with a science degree but you can't take
2:00:13that and now get in they never question you about college now
2:00:16you can't you don't have the marks to get into college how did you get around that
2:00:22I lied to them and said that calculus wasn't a big thing when I first applied
2:00:28uh one science but now calculus is more of a mandatory course what um
2:00:36and when was this happening that you were going back to school recently I went back Last Summer
2:00:44what's which college and I went to high school after school program
2:00:49um it was at very believe it's Brave buff on steals in Bayview and you graduated with that
2:00:58yard you've you've finished I completed the credit uh creating my mind and have
2:01:03you did you apply to college yes yes and you were accepted I'm susceptor Virginia
2:01:08College okay in what program um bio bio biotechnology engineering okay so
2:01:24the last year and a half you've been doing your piano studies yeah what is your routine daily
2:01:31routine for the last year and a half when you say that I chose my family I chose to stay home
2:01:36well at first I continued phone contact with Daniel but uh that only lasted about
2:01:46um one time I like I told you Gary came to pick me up to go see Daniel and I got caught
2:01:53and um that's when they took away my cell phone and they said that they'd drive me places
2:02:03and so pretty much I wake up I do my piano studies I may go see my teacher for lessons
2:02:11at first they took me but then uh my teacher was like yeah she's with me I was able to go and see
2:02:19him at his house um once a week sometimes it was once every other week if he was busy
2:02:26and then I had another studies at a place called Euro music for the actual pedagogy
2:02:33course which is the actual teaching course and uh I went to those two classes once a week as well
2:02:41um and pretty much it was home help up with housework and
2:02:46practice my piano and just wait for the college application a college acceptance and did you
2:02:54go out were you allowed to go out at night I don't go out no the only time I went out was
2:03:02last time I went out was for my
2:03:09firm my one month uh my um my birthday and I was able a week ago to go see my
2:03:17friend on how on night of Halloween my mom would help um do a dance dance thing so it
2:03:24was Saturday night not Halloween night it was Halloween weekend Saturday night
2:03:28um my friend topaz and I had made plans but my grandfather we wanted to go skating
2:03:34because I love to skate And since they know topaz and they like they confirmed that she
2:03:42was in fact going with me skating and they have her number to call her to make sure I was there
2:03:48um and that I called when I got to her house um I got there and because I had let my friends know
2:03:56that my grandfather was ill and that I wasn't 100 sure she did she had to talk but she couldn't be
2:04:02friends to get a hotel a babysitter so we just stay inside her house with her husband
2:04:09and then
2:04:15there's other phone the Danny that Daniel gets to you how long do you are you able to
2:04:22keep that from your parents attention and how long are you in how long do you have that film
2:04:32you've had it for three months the last three months when do you switch from just using
2:04:39the phone to just pull on the SIM card I'm using it just using some fluency in foreign
2:04:47okay so this SIM card that you say was in your jacket pocket Which jacket is it that
2:04:55you're talking about um I have a flat jacket with the furry foot yes that I use in the fall
2:05:04and the last time you knew about it it was inside that jacket jacket yes
2:05:08and you believe you would believe there's no reason why it wouldn't still be there
2:05:11yes okay and where would that jacket be located either hanging in my room or hanging behind by
2:05:21the garage the door mud room area what we call the mudroom area the garage door is it a laundry room
2:05:26where there's where you come in from the garage yeah okay not a laundry room but it's like a
2:05:31little Nook little Nook there's no the laundry is done we took the laundry downstairs okay
2:05:36okay um Danny Danny and and um his activities his his drug related activities did you ever
2:05:47engage or assist him in this in this practice I told him I did not want anything to do with it
2:05:56um it's a tough question right right is that are you involved in any type of illegal activity
2:06:04that would draw the attention of these type
2:06:07of people to come to your house looking for something I have no
2:06:15well not to your knowledge like are your parents is there any source of money coming into your
2:06:22house that is unaccounted for no no would it be something that your parents would engage in
2:06:30gambling or illegal or illegal drug activity no well not all the bills and everything and
2:06:38nothing she never doesn't have like anything how new was that basement the setup of the basement
2:06:492004 we moved in in 2004 I believe we moved in for about a year so I'd say either 2005
2:07:01or 2006. they moved it you guys renovated yes
2:07:06and um and at that time the basement was completed yes were your parents working it both at that time
2:07:16when we first moved into 2004 my father was unemployed he had gotten laid off from Magna yep
2:07:23my mother had transferred up to a place in Newmarket um then my father found the job
2:07:29at uh where he's he was currently working at Kobe and stealth and then I forgot the year
2:07:42my mother got laid off believing 2008 or so and she's been looking for a job and been at home now
2:07:57um
2:08:02after talking to Daniel and when's the last time you you text message or communicated with
2:08:08him was what my grandfather was ill have you have you been experiencing anything what you
2:08:16would call in the last little while of any type of threats or threatening behavior yes tell me
2:08:22about that um his I don't well he says it's just a friend but everyone says it's his girlfriend
2:08:32um she has messaged me telling me to back off to leave Daniel alone
2:08:39and he's messaged me and he's like is that you calling but I wasn't calling or I'd be on the
2:08:45phone with him he's like your other my Rogers line because I called him on the the phone he gave me
2:08:51yes any day that my Rogers line was calling him and when I looked into it it was like on
2:08:58the on my bills those phone calls were made but I know I didn't make them so I couldn't explain it
2:09:09and I did get a letter in the mail saying that uh you're a dead person walking
2:09:17now why didn't you tell me about that last one I spoke to you the other day
2:09:24I everything had just happened I wasn't
2:09:30just simply a letter yes it was uh cut out
2:09:35where is that letter it's garbage it's in the garbage yes
2:09:44I didn't think too much of it at the time and what did you equate it to
2:09:49just jealousy you still are equating it to the friend of the girlfriend
2:09:55well I don't want to like I don't know 100 so I don't want to point fingers why so if you're not
2:10:03100 and you don't want to point fingers why do you believe it's her because she has personally
2:10:09messaged me on Facebook telling me that I'm stupid and to back off and to leave Daniel alone
2:10:17okay and sometimes when I text him um she textses me using his phone telling
2:10:24me that he's with his girlfriend Christine and to leave him alone
2:10:31the
2:10:35is there something that happened to you that you never disclosed to the police before um
2:10:43that is something I lied to him about
2:10:46tell me about that um I told him I was raped but I was just very depressed and
2:10:57sorry this is very embarrassing don't don't you haven't reported it to the police right
2:11:01this is a this is an interaction between you and an ex-boyfriend okay so you're you're not
2:11:05in any trouble for this and it's important that we clear it up because he's telling us stuff and then
2:11:11we're coming back to you so this is something I lied to him about and why did and you say
2:11:17you were depressed and and when did this happen when did this when did you tell them about this
2:11:23maybe a year ago a year ago and what was it that you told me
2:11:28that um someone came to the door and when I went to open the door they pushed me down and raped me
2:11:37did you give descriptions did you provide descriptions to them about it to him about it
2:11:44might have I
2:11:49I but you're telling me to my face that this never happened this never happened okay so it's not this
2:11:58isn't something that we need to be looking at as something that's tied to this no this
2:12:02is that was my lie to him okay for attention now did he what is he what was his reaction to that
2:12:13poured it but it wasn't real so I didn't report it
2:12:20now um
2:12:25did you ever would you ever have a figure of Danny if Daniel stopped being a drug dealer or
2:12:31engaged in or is he still dealing with that again this is not criminal it's more in lines of you
2:12:37know what would link someone to think that they're coming to your house for a large quantit for money
2:12:43which is an obvious question I I don't I've asked him
2:12:52asked if but I don't ask him into detail so when he says he's doing runs you're equating
2:12:56that too he's running still running drugs running errands running drugs seeing people
2:13:03you just didn't ask him I just kind of
2:13:07okay did you ever receive again coming from we're going to ask you did you ever receive any
2:13:13other type of threatening text messages that you know More Than Just Words of what a person says
2:13:20you know don't see him or don't did you ever read receive anything that was certainly yeah I did get
2:13:28um some but I couldn't uh what's what I'm looking for it said that we have people
2:13:37that can erase this message um but it was just words it was just just stay away
2:13:45what were the words just stay away stay away Chris Christie and Danny go one one life
2:13:56so it was more in line with Danny and Miss more in line with it just pretty
2:14:00much just leave like for me to stay away there's never any threat to a threat to you
2:14:06from any other Anonymous read it always seems to you to have
2:14:11the heir of Danny's girlfriend or friend that's sending these threats just he says that is not
2:14:18her but from the all the messages are pretty much just to leave him alone so he can be happy
2:14:25there's no there's no phone number that these things are coming back from no being sent from no
2:14:34um did you I know it was absurd but I couldn't explain it
2:14:37no well I don't I I with the technology today anything is possible I'm not I'm not I'd never be
2:14:46able to to look you in the face and say that's not possible because what kids can do with computers
2:14:51and do with technology I I you know anything in my opinion is now but it was just words it was never
2:15:00anything to the effect of seeing Bang Bang to me yes no are you aware of someone else
2:15:07getting a message like that Daniel said that he got messages saying fun fun bang bang bang
2:15:14what did he ever equate that to you tell you he just said these messages basically
2:15:21kept telling him to make sure I stayed away from him and to make that girl happy
2:15:27okay and that they knew what he was up to they even said that they knew like
2:15:35what are like I'd text him something and for some reason they knew that I texted him and that they
2:15:41knew that I called him stuff like that do you have um have you ever received other than that letter
2:15:52that other thing I also made up the bullet in the mail and I made that up and how long ago was that
2:16:00just a few months ago okay and was that an attention grabber for him again
2:16:05you still have feelings for Daniel don't you yes so you're having trouble with
2:16:10that you're having trouble getting over the fact that the relationship is over
2:16:14the terms of how it happened I've accepted that that it's over but I still to take care of him
2:16:25I had to defy it your relationship with Daniel was broken up because of your parents ultimatum
2:16:31not because she didn't care for him anymore yes that's that's an obvious what you can say right
2:16:37because you still have feelings and you're still trying to trigger them with the bullet
2:16:41you know even just that that are these tech text messages you're receiving are they
2:16:45fictitious are you making that up a hundred percent okay now the letter you received
2:16:54is it fictitious or did he make it up or sorry is it fictitious or is it real it's real it's real
2:17:00and how sorry no it just happened like before most of this stuff happened so I just brushed it aside
2:17:08okay so what happened before what most of what stuff happened most of like before I knew
2:17:16before she messed
2:17:20my message how often did you use this other phone you said you said it was
2:17:24back when your father that's the last time you used it but how many times
2:17:28would you you know like from the last year once a day once a day or usually
2:17:35um yeah once a day who was paying for that Daniel's paying for that
2:17:45um so the the incident those two incidents that
2:17:49you made up the bullet and the and the the being right those never happened no
2:17:57is there anything else you can think of in this were you dating anyone else did you see anyone
2:18:03else during these during during this year and a half no they are uh dating no no I just I
2:18:11saw Adrian because he came he came over but I wasn't seeing him like romantically or anything
2:18:17um I saw just my uh Titanic group of friends which are uh my girlfriend's topaz topaz yes topaz last
2:18:28name chew topaz chew uh her husband and where okay we won't say where they live because it's being
2:18:35videoed but I need to get an idea if we haven't spoken to him we'd like to speak to them okay
2:18:39who else um Adrian Chung he lives in he lives away but sometimes he comes into town and he'll
2:18:49come to my house and ask my parents to take me out just for a coffee to catch up about
2:18:53half hour and then he takes me back home okay that's that's three who else is Adrian
2:18:59um Adrian uh you've spoken to him you've spoken to already Edward uh and so he's in that Loop of
2:19:10tight-knit friend uh no he's uh separate okay who else is in his other tight-knit group of friends
2:19:16well we're it type oh I don't speak to them often um Cecilia Pang and uh Jerome we fall in and out
2:19:24like periodically like maybe a couple months where we talk almost every week and then sometimes we
2:19:30go a month or two without talking Jerome Liu okay um so that's Adrian Adrian topaz chihay
2:19:41Cecilia myself and um there's one more Carson
2:19:52his last name
2:19:55he's more like a fur he him and myself aren't that close but he does hang around all of us if
2:20:02we go to um for example when my friend had a baby we were all there together now what about again
2:20:09I apologize for the name Gary Gibson Gibbons or Gibson Gibson yes where is he in this I haven't
2:20:16spoken to him in a long time I'd say about a year but prior to that we spoke quite a bit
2:20:24um yes but he was your link to Danny right to get to Danny to drop you off
2:20:29well he he spoke to he'd call Daniel if I like if he didn't answer my calls and
2:20:34um we hung out on our own as well what do you know about Daniel's girlfriend Christine
2:20:50um I believe she has a child and I don't know where the father is in that okay um Daniel's
2:20:58told me that this is just what Daniel has told me that uh she's going through a custody battle
2:21:04and uh that every time I ask him like are you what are you doing he's like making runs with Christine
2:21:13making runs with Christine yeah and I'm sorry when you say what runs would you know for me listening
2:21:20to making a run are you making would you draw the inference that that's back to the drug business I
2:21:26I but I kind of I didn't go more into that don't go more into it what do you
2:21:31what do you take that as as just hearing it at face value that he
2:21:35was going to meet somebody for drugs or and Christine's along for the ride
2:21:40I was told like in his words that he was the one taking her to go see people that she knew she knew
2:21:51and that everything was at her house or something like that okay
2:21:59I want you to sit tight do you want to get you some water yes please okay I want you to sit tight
2:22:04I'm just gonna go talk to uh to Deborah she's Deborah Gladding she's been monitoring I'm also
2:22:08going to talk to the primary investigator okay um we're gonna get you some water and and we're
2:22:15sort of moving through this this is great okay I appreciate the fact that you're honest with me
2:22:19to tell me that these things were made up it's very I can't lie right and you can't because it
2:22:26well if you're if you were raped and you received bullets those are some pretty significant threats
2:22:31right I understand okay um um there was also one other thing um we were getting private phone calls
2:22:41um at my house as well I didn't never told my brother because he was at school yeah
2:22:46um when we picked up they'd always hang up and one time my father had picked up and like I said
2:22:57Mondays my mother would go dancing yes and when this one time I picked up the phone with my father
2:23:05was already on the phone and there was this woman on the other line and I don't know who it was
2:23:10and and they were speaking Chinese which is a little bit off for me because my father's
2:23:17Chinese isn't isn't his first language okay and uh my father doesn't even know I was on the line
2:23:24but this woman was saying you have to come over right away right away you have to come now and
2:23:31my father kept saying I can't come over no and she's like I don't care you have to come now
2:23:38um like I said he still does to this day doesn't know that I heard that conversation and
2:23:45when he went uh down the stairs to see me because I was in the main on the main floor
2:23:51he was upstairs when he answered the phone he was like I'm going to go and my cousin Michelle
2:23:59she said I'm gonna go to Michelle's house to I believe their tap was running or he
2:24:04had he's a handyman with a housework so they asked him to fix it but I believe
2:24:09I don't remember where they were they were out and I remember because I was uh I believe this
2:24:15is during the summer of this past year 2010. yes like summer of 2010 and me and
2:24:22Michelle we went to we go to the gym together so uh she had mentioned that day that she had
2:24:30I'm sorry I don't remember what but she had an errand to run with her mother and I was like
2:24:34I think it was a doctor's appointment or something and I told my dad that I
2:24:37believe they're out they're not home and he's like I'm gonna go so he left and when he left
2:24:45um I had called my my aunt had I believe my aunt had called me back where I had called
2:24:49her somehow we connected with each other and they said that he uh they were not home yet but they're
2:24:54on their way they would be there in about a half hour okay by that my father never came home and
2:25:01my father says he was driving around their block waiting for them but when I confronted him I said
2:25:08I thought they were they said that they weren't home he's like I was driving around the block but
2:25:13when I had I didn't know how to process this and so I confided in Michelle when we're at the gym
2:25:19and she said that when she came home she did drive because they have um her garage
2:25:27is in the back of her house so there's like a street way that's just garages and when
2:25:32my father goes over he likes to use the back door and knocks on the door in the back door
2:25:36because it's convenient because everyone's in the back of the house usually with a kitchen
2:25:41um so she said that she ran like she drove in two circles before
2:25:45and she drove around to check before she went in but my father was never there
2:25:50did Michelle speak Chinese yes um yes yes she does is your Aunt this is your cousin
2:25:58is Michelle yes my cousin Michelle yes and your aunt's name is oh uh
2:26:05and uh so did was your father ever at that house eventually she said that he did come
2:26:11over and he helped them out and came back home but when you listened on the phone line did you
2:26:16recognize the female as being Michelle it was not it was not her and her mother I know that
2:26:21but it was a voice I've never heard before a ladies voice that I've never heard before
2:26:27and like I said these phone calls were happening periodically but every time we answered they
2:26:32they'd hang up on us meaning you or your mom yes because my mother and I had voiced it and my
2:26:39we voiced it and a few days later I was home by myself and I got a private call and I didn't hear
2:26:48them click like hang up clicking so I yelled in Chinese do not call this number ever again
2:26:55and they called probably once after that and never returned like the private call stopped
2:27:00and so when did this stop when did this happen and what is he said the summer by the end of
2:27:05the summer the summer is August September like late August early September and this
2:27:11is the to the house line yes and what's the house line phone number 905-477-3867
2:27:19okay
2:27:22sit tight is there any other any other incidents that jog your memory
2:27:31any other boyfriends in between this time period no
2:27:36okay sit tight let me get you some water let me ask some questions okay if you want to stand up
2:27:40and walk around I understand it's not we're not telling you to sit tight literally but it may
2:27:44be a couple of minutes okay what did you need to go to the washroom no I just I don't like being
2:27:50myself right now I'm gonna leave the door open a little bit okay is that does that work for you and
2:27:55remember right through that glass you can actually I don't know sear but that's where she's sitting
2:27:59so she actually you're you're just she's just in another room but she's a part of this room okay
2:28:08foreign
2:28:48foreign
2:30:22foreign
2:30:38him okay so
2:30:45do you need a bathroom break yes let me just clear the hallway and then I'll escort you out okay
2:31:17okay
2:31:24foreign
2:33:44foreign
2:33:58it's up to you I'm just uh we'll just wait by the door then that's fine
2:34:10are you doing fine trying my best you're doing good you're doing good
2:34:24are you hungry no no
2:34:31choices I've made it in the best but it's just
2:34:37you know what
2:34:41it's just part of life I mean it's it's you know we have to relearn
2:34:48I've been making mistakes and make mistakes and
2:34:57Neon
2:35:23it's okay
2:35:29okay
2:35:35you might can't worry about that
2:35:44when you did what I had to do right I know that you felt that you needed to do
2:36:09just
2:36:13maybe close the door too much
2:36:49thank you
2:37:20foreign
2:38:27things going over everything
2:38:33I'm just going it through everything and I just
2:38:39it's just like pieces here and pieces there and I don't I don't want to save if I'm wrong or like
2:38:48just having an overthinking everything and it's just like I don't think you can
2:38:57we the truth is the truth right it's not it's not you're wrong no okay it is it is what it is
2:39:04and no it doesn't like what the details and everything you could just
2:39:11want to get right so like everything could be
2:39:15everything could be right but it's just like it's pieces and yeah but I mean then you know you know
2:39:22all the pieces are gonna they're not they're all gonna come together and you're it's it's all gonna
2:39:28fit right because what you're gonna be what you're saying is true
2:39:33just trying to like every time I think of those things it just it gets me all worked up
2:39:39but I have to think about it but I don't I don't want to and then like it just
2:39:46it brings back all everything okay that's gonna happen for a little
2:39:52bit though too you realize that right I know it's just good it's a lot yeah yeah
2:39:58just like I did it I don't want to do it again
2:40:02I mean even when you least expect it even you know it's it's gonna happen
2:40:10and now it's just like he's asking me these questions like I should have I should have
2:40:17I know it's like maybe I should have been more like attentive like
2:40:22it just happened so fast and it's like he's asking me like the shoes and everything and
2:40:27yeah I can't give him the answer because I don't know and that's right right and we
2:40:33don't expect you to you know you don't want to make up something no I'm not because you
2:40:37know you want I wish I was able to answer like I want to be able to answer it so
2:40:43it'd be not easier but it's it helped yeah but if you don't know you don't know
2:40:51really that's that's the one if you don't know you
2:40:55know you don't know who are we to say because we weren't there you you're the
2:40:58one that's going through this we're not there so Randy was saying what you remember back then
2:41:07you know we've had a couple of days and you know things start to come back in your mind you know it
2:41:14so don't be too hung up on oh well I didn't remember oh I should have
2:41:20remembered oh why couldn't I remember don't make me feel like I should have no
2:41:39unless I still like beating myself up like I should have
2:41:43don't do that you don't like you know there's no apologies needed there's no there's none of
2:41:49that there's none of that gen you don't need to to be beating yourself up over this okay
2:42:02this is some heavy duty stuff
2:42:05this is uh you've been through you've been through something that you know is very traumatic
2:42:14yeah no I haven't still haven't heard yet
2:42:24and I kind of want to be here if you need me right on the uh right
2:42:29on the go so but you know what once once I'm able to to touch base with
2:42:34her again I'll do I'll do that and I know that she'll get in touch with you
2:43:39I'm trying to either add anything to help like
2:44:36foreign
2:44:39just goes in this way
2:45:03is there anything else you can you know what you've no I'm I'm
2:45:20it's it's just like going over again it's okay just wait till Randy comes back and
2:45:26you know what if you have some other questions for you he'll he'll ask them
2:46:09foreign
2:46:37business
2:48:07okay
2:48:14The Thing You Do
2:48:18it's embarrassing
2:48:21uh when I when I lose control I don't think I feel I can control is what I feel okay
2:48:29no I just I just heard the sound but it was like it was sound that Drew my attention so
2:49:55foreign
2:50:44foreign
2:51:51I don't
2:51:56everybody knows that everyone perceives
2:52:07I don't want to disappoint my mother like I don't want to
2:52:14like I said I haven't told her like they don't know about that University stuff
2:52:22and I don't want people who saw one mother as a good person I think
2:52:32okay well what you're saying in here is not going to go anywhere
2:52:41because everyone says she's such a good mom
2:52:52what you're saying in here is is then the confines of this police station and
2:53:00our investigation so it's not you know that's not something that we would release out okay
2:53:17I didn't no no if there's another officer that did another detected that um
2:53:32have they been able to find out anything
2:53:37know when Randy comes back in here you can ask them all you can ask them
2:53:44those questions and as well he's not the lead investigator on this he there is a different
2:53:50individual that's the lead investigator so if you've got some questions I'll certainly
2:53:59try to answer them
2:54:05that I don't want to give you information that is not corrupt so I just specific that you want
2:54:12to know do they have any like leads or suspects or did anyone say where the car went after and
2:54:22that that I don't know so that would be something that you know what I'd have to find out for you
2:54:29it's like is there any
2:54:33I know I know you have a lot of it a lot of questions
2:54:39can't I don't know the answers for you it just feels like I'm answering questions but
2:54:45you're not giving a lot you're not getting a lot of answers right now
2:55:20the waiting
2:55:27I can't understand I don't like it out there like if he's here he can ask me I can
2:55:32give him anything I can think of but I know
2:56:42fine
2:57:32foreign
2:58:02are you do you want something to eat I'm starving I don't know about you I don't know how you can
2:58:07go without I can get you something to eat even if it's a bagel okay but you're feeling
2:58:17a little white-headed you want some chips or something like that do you need some junk food
2:58:24sure
2:58:27what can I get you can eat something right now what would it be
2:58:34huh yeah but you're light-headed
2:58:41maybe you should sit down a little bit too okay
2:58:45it's been doing a lot of pacing and you need to just sit down for a bit
2:58:51if you need something with some sugar in it just to give you some energy
2:58:57stomach you've heard it but it's just you know what's your stomach saying saying hungry
2:59:05you want a candy bar
3:00:18foreign
3:00:25more water I'm okay
3:03:12foreign
3:03:20foreign
3:03:48foreign
3:05:10foreign
3:05:19here take some Kleenex take some Kleenex tell me what you're feeling right now what's going on
3:05:33you might as well get used to this you got to get it out so tell me what you're feeling right now
3:05:42I'm just gotta think if it makes me feel like I should have
3:05:50it's a thing called Survivor is guilt that you're gonna go through you're gonna you're gonna need
3:05:57and this is like the the stuff about the therapy and and getting to speak to someone because their
3:06:01stages of grieving that you're gonna go through okay and this is the only way you're going to
3:06:07go through this is what properly is with help I think victim Services is engaged right they're
3:06:12trying to help you so just stick with them it's a long road but it's it can be a very successful
3:06:19Road okay and and what you're feeling I hate to say is normal but it is it's something that a
3:06:26lot of people who are in the same circumstance will feel okay but what I want to do is I want
3:06:32to finish off on this so that we can let you go and get and get all get out of the police station
3:06:38because I appreciate your time and I appreciate your help so what is in the safe
3:06:55I opened it my mom took out our passports I
3:07:00I said she has the combination I don't have the combination you don't have the combination for
3:07:06the safe just your mom okay and so there was passports no large quantities of cash in there
3:07:15um
3:07:17not that I'm not that I know of because she asked me to help pay for our two trips
3:07:28and what did you get that what did you have the two thousand dollars
3:07:30for what did you where did you make that money had
3:07:37I was saving up to get a new cell phone do you have a BlackBerry
3:07:42oh you gave it to Dan okay my brother gave it to me from his friend but you have so the
3:07:48Blackberry is it in your name that you've given to Daniel so does Dan it was yours and you've
3:07:52given it my brother's friend didn't it was an old blackberry and my brother's friend gave it to him
3:07:59and I gave it I gave it to Daniel when did you give it to dania
3:08:10I gave it to a friend to give to Daniel how long ago
3:08:15couple maybe a week a week ago a week maybe a week what's the PIN command for that you
3:08:23know do you have a personal identification number for security reasons have you ever
3:08:27been given that by by Blackberry no no there's no lock that I know okay so um
3:08:37Daniel is was and likely Still Remains to be a drug dealer self-admitted when he was in the air
3:08:47the other day you know so stepping back from that is I had asked you is prior to the incident when's
3:08:53the last time you spoke to Daniel what I should have said to you is when is the last time from
3:08:58today for back that you spoke to Daniel when is the last time you met with him and spoke with him
3:09:07you talk to him
3:09:12you didn't see him or talk to him any other times other than right here in the police station
3:09:20and if I told you that Daniel says that you spoke to him
3:09:23he did have a conversation with him somewhere else
3:09:39he would be lying
3:09:47the last time I spoke to him was when he asked for the Blackberry
3:09:52and that was a week ago
3:10:00he was in the hospital and I took over
3:10:04a friend at his painful place and who is the friend that you gave it to I only
3:10:12person and where's the paintball place
3:10:15Victoria Park in Phoenix right at Victoria Park in McNichol between McNichol and Steele on this
3:10:27when
3:10:30there's a lot of people remember I told you about the media
3:10:33they're bad they can be very bad when they start to sniff around and they they sense something
3:10:39and I can tell you that the media is portraying that this was supposed to be some sort of drug
3:10:45related that you guys weren't a random Target that you were a targeted house because of drug activity
3:10:55what would you say to that
3:10:59I don't deal the drugs okay tell me more about that you don't deal the drugs are you involved
3:11:05in the transportation and just distribution no have you ever been with Danny this is
3:11:10something that's very important have you ever been with Danny when Danny's doing that
3:11:15he normally leaves me with friend and says he's going out with his friend
3:11:20and like normally when is that normally that was three four years ago three or four years
3:11:38was he dealing with big qualities were you aware of it honestly I I wanted nothing to do with it
3:11:44so I refused to know what he was doing okay and the times that you've snuck out and spoke to him
3:11:51how many times a month up until the last time you handed the Blackberry you'd see them once a week
3:11:57well prior to this I'd only see him once a month because I went away twice with my family yeah so
3:12:05I wasn't able to uh go anywhere I was out with them so this month I've only seen him
3:12:11twice this month I mean October I saw him twice in October and you but you texted you
3:12:17said you text message him every day once you at least once more or less
3:12:21um you know and that could be a string of text messages right it's not just hey how are you doing
3:12:25fine and that's the end of the text message it'd be a string of communication you were texting it
3:12:30was you'd just be where you at are you at work how are you and miss you or what are you doing today
3:12:40and the so when you go out and see them for once during the time once once a week I I
3:12:49tell my parents that I was going to class yes and before class or after class I'd go buy him
3:12:54lunch and bring it by his work and sometimes I would see him and sometimes I just give it to a
3:12:59co-worker to give to him and how long when you see him how long would you see him for
3:13:07when you weren't when he wasn't working and you were able to get out and see him how long
3:13:11hasn't happened in a long time and how long is a long time
3:13:15the last time I saw him outside of that was when Gary picked me up and
3:13:23I've been at a year and a half and why why did he want your blackberry
3:13:28he said that he had sold his BlackBerry so he needed a phone
3:13:35and that BlackBerry what like I'm kind of confused is was that an active film
3:13:43no because now we're talking about three phones now we're talking or we got a SIM card we got
3:13:47the phone that your parents know you have and you got a BlackBerry up until a week ago
3:13:53so the Blackberry is what I was using with this phone I'm using now was an old phone that I no
3:14:00longer used okay so because the reception the Blackberry was your normal phone that you were
3:14:06using on a regular basis and um and you would switch SIM cards if so if you were going to
3:14:12communicate with him with the other SIM card you put the SIM card in that blackberry and talk to
3:14:15him through that I had an iPhone I had an iPhone I kept in my room that my parents didn't know about
3:14:22um because my brother I had one that Daniel gave me earlier but it broke yeah so my brother what
3:14:27he did was he fixed the part so he can have one that he used himself but uh the one I had wasn't
3:14:33fully functioning it was just it was it had no internet access on it so I just kept it for
3:14:39phone calls and I kept it and where is that phone now it should be still on my in my room yes where
3:14:50I believe it was on my laptop table or something or on my counter and
3:14:55it doesn't have a SIM card in it right now I don't get this right in it just
3:15:01Okay so there's an iPhone on by your desk on your desk somewhere in that in your room yes and um the
3:15:12Rogers I mean the Blackberry that you had had up until a week and it went to Daniel and and
3:15:16for what reason it went to David he had a black another a newer BlackBerry but he said someone
3:15:22wanted to buy it like a friend of his wanted to buy it and that he needed a phone temporarily
3:15:28so he took your phone so I I had another phone as well so I said okay I'll lend you this one
3:15:35so um it sounds as if you couldn't let Danny go
3:15:42like you're you're still there that you're still hoping The Hope isn't much but but you're still
3:15:48hoping I still can't you're not you're not walking away from them right you haven't
3:15:53walked away from them even with the comments that you've received these comments from I had and then
3:16:02but I had for a while I disappeared from him for a while but I needed it was just he said
3:16:13calm that he can make me calm so I reached back out to him so is the is it you instigating all the
3:16:21communication or does he reach but does he start he reach back as well okay now you have to figure
3:16:30as I said the media can be horrific in some cases and I I told you not to read or pay attention to
3:16:36the news and I know for a fact that in one of the newspapers that the angle that's being portrayed
3:16:42right now is that this was a drug that you guys were um uh not a random but a targeted residence
3:16:49because of drug-related activity you and your family were engaged in drug related activity
3:16:57now is it possible that Danny that you are being mistaken somehow as being involved in his life
3:17:08in that angle of things well I haven't been around his for a while like going out with him
3:17:16but I wouldn't say it's completely out of the question but I haven't I don't I don't go around
3:17:22with him when he's doing that kind of stuff I I don't like it and I refuse to be a part
3:17:27of that and now what do you say about Chris the comment about Christine and the running
3:17:33I kind of took a blind eye today but are you is it is it your understanding that she may
3:17:38be not only part of it but linking him to the people involved in this activity and because
3:17:47like I told you he gives me that answer and I kind of take a blind eye but if I were to
3:17:54tell you what I thought of what was that I would think that she she also has her own thing going
3:18:05her own business does she work for a living what I know of her is that
3:18:13afros but it wasn't work often like I think he mentioned that she doesn't have a job once
3:18:20but I know she worked for Northfield I don't know if she still does
3:18:25um which No Frills do you know unfortunately she's not sure do you know what area of town or where
3:18:31she lives she lives at Midland and steals at Mid linen Steels on the Markham or Scarborough side
3:18:40the Scarborough said and Christine you don't know her last name Felipe what's
3:18:46that what nationality is she Filipino Filipino and how old is Christine I only know she's old
3:18:57did he ever see where he met her well we all went
3:19:06to school was that Mary Ward yes
3:19:12no how would you feel if you know like Daniel is the one who's
3:19:23through through whatever activity that he's engaged in and you've been around but not
3:19:27necessarily having an understanding because you're seen with him that he's brought this back to you
3:19:42I don't know if that's in fact happened I'm trying to find a Rhyme or Reason for why
3:19:45your house was targeted I'm still trying to figure out how they got in your house
3:19:52like you didn't hear you didn't hear a doorbell you didn't hear a door knock you didn't
3:19:56you did her door kicked in you know I was I said I was watching TV on the floor I I don't know how
3:20:04yeah I I know we went over that back and back and forth we don't know how
3:20:10so somehow they got into your house am I getting through your mom down on the lower
3:20:17level right because she's the only one who's down there so it's very confusing
3:20:25um we do have surveillance cameras from the area right that explain
3:20:30that well hopefully but it's that's you know that's still in work in progress
3:20:37um
3:20:39but generally random events are not in most cases random there's a Rhyme or Reason Why they've come
3:20:49to your house but from what you've told me inside the house the only thing that you hear them saying
3:20:55to you is they're looking for money they're not looking for a specific quantity of money no no
3:21:01do you ever hear number one telling number three about the quantity of money that he's recovered no
3:21:15all the comment you hear from number one really is is it's time to go we've been here
3:21:19too long we've been here too long yeah and number three was the one that says was was
3:21:24my father and all I could what I heard from him was basically where's more you're lying
3:21:35so you're telling me that you you had no involvement in what happened
3:21:41meaning not saying how the outcome came but you you had no involvement
3:21:45in in any type of illegal activity that would have drawn you or the attention
3:21:50of you to have bad people come to your house looking for large sums of money
3:21:56you're not involved in this Any Which Way because the question obviously stands Jennifer is
3:22:05you're upstairs and they're downstairs
3:22:10right so it's a natural concern
3:22:15when why would they leave you alone why would they not do the same to you
3:22:27you can't answer that question
3:22:31I'm telling me I can say is he said I cooperated
3:22:35but I asked him to take me the number one guy the number one guy said you're cooperated
3:22:42okay there's no you had no threats and again we're back to the fact that you admittedly lied okay
3:22:50not to me right not to me no you admittedly lied you've lied to your parents right about going to
3:23:00school you've lied to Danny about being Daniel about being raped and about receiving a bullet
3:23:09who's to say this whole thing isn't a lie that what you're telling me is a lie because if you
3:23:16are lying it's the most cold-blooded thing that I have ever faced in my life
3:23:37there is nothing that you've said to me today is a lie
3:23:41and I want to they want a crew just put a little Preamble not nothing in here that
3:23:47you might have mistaken because of order of events I'm saying to you right now
3:23:54is there anything throughout the course of your statement today where you've lied to me
3:24:04from your interaction with Danny Daniel from your I'm not involved in drugs and
3:24:11I don't have anything to do with them and we don't have large sums of money
3:24:15what about life insurance policies do your parents have life insurance policies
3:24:26we had a
3:24:30I I have one on myself yes and uh my mom they used to have one for me when I was younger
3:24:39but uh half of that went to education half went to life insurance and when they found out I
3:24:49I didn't go to university they they asked for the money back so hang on a second here you
3:24:56told to me that you told me that they never knew you didn't go to university when did they find
3:25:01out that you didn't go to university I told them that I graduated but I never went to University
3:25:08that I went for two years but I never finished okay
3:25:13and they wanted the money back as a result of that so you did actually tell your parents somewhat of
3:25:18the truth that you never went to University or but it's it's half truth yes so back to this line is
3:25:29where we're talking about the fact that of the line right is that it's I don't
3:25:34deal with the drugs I don't associate with that okay I honestly I don't now
3:25:44back to another very difficult question but if I don't ask it I'm going to be it's an obvious one
3:25:50the resentment that you had that you may have had towards your parents for the interference
3:25:56in your relationship and your life and essentially locking you down in your house
3:26:02at the end of the day I love my parents and I chose to be with them
3:26:08if I wanted to I could have just left but I didn't I wanted to stay with them and take care of them
3:26:17so this wasn't some evil plot that you thought up to oh my God no
3:26:24no interaction no belief no you didn't have anything to do with this thing at all whatsoever
3:26:29you don't engage in illegal activity no
3:26:34because you know that it'll be very easy it will be a very easy thing to discredit
3:26:38you on right we're in the process of trying to add credibility to what you tell us and that's
3:26:42through the process of asking people and doing whatever through that same process it will be
3:26:47very easy to find the flaws in what you've said which again then turns the focus back to you
3:26:55it's a natural progress It's a natural thing that investigators do we eliminate people or
3:27:01we draw our attention to them it's a natural thing it's if it's not brain surgery okay
3:27:11what did you talk to Michelle about did you talk to Michelle last night
3:27:16or the day before you were coming they're both talking to the police I just asked her how she
3:27:22was feeling because she was nervous what did you tell her tell the truth tell you what you know
3:27:30and the threats that you you say that you've received the threats that you've
3:27:34talked about are the same threats that you're mentioning from the text messaging
3:27:39they're not really you did you receive any life-threatening or are they basically to
3:27:43stay away from just the email saying the the messages saying stay away
3:27:51okay I heard a knock on the door give bear with me
3:30:57thank you
3:34:31foreign
3:35:10come in
3:35:18come here come right here
3:36:49foreign okay
3:38:43foreign
3:38:47okay be right back I'm just up there
3:40:55foreign
3:43:38foreign
3:44:05foreign
3:44:09we're done essentially how are you feeling you're really scared did I what I scare you about sit
3:44:18down sit down and take a load off tell me how tell me how you're feeling and how I scared you
3:44:26I don't want you walking away from here thinking I'm evil I want you to walking around from here
3:44:29thinking that this guy is helping investigate my mom's murder and he's going to turn over
3:44:34every stone possible to make sure that we catch the people who do that that's what I want you
3:44:38feeling so I don't want you walking away from here thinking that I'm I'm I scared you or I'm
3:44:43I'm a bad man sometimes we have to ask very very difficult questions but it's my job okay and you
3:44:52would expect that from me and it's not you're not the only person that we're asking this stuff of
3:44:59but you're the most obvious person that we have to ask this stuff to
3:45:06and there's it's just it's just the way we operate it's the way we have to operate it's
3:45:12a tough job to to deal with someone's murder and there's some very bad people and there's
3:45:17some very tough questions that need to be asked so you have to I hope you understand
3:45:25you understand that it's just
3:45:33have you lied to me no you haven't lied to me about anything
3:45:40I said whatever I could to help okay so if you've always told the truth the truth will never hurt
3:45:47you it may get you into a bit of trouble right the truth can get you into trouble if you've done
3:45:51some things wrong but generally in most cases if you tell the truth you'll always be fine
3:46:02so that's that's the Avenue that that's the Avenue you have to think about and what you I
3:46:07can always I never do anything wrong if I tell the truth and if I've made if I've said some
3:46:11things that are lies or I've held something back because I think it might hurt me those
3:46:17are the things that will cause people to look at you more intently because the question is
3:46:24is why would that person do that to me they've got something to hide right so
3:46:32you know the fact that you've lied to your parents over a long period of time the fact
3:46:36that you've lied about to Daniel about those other two events you know those are disturbing
3:46:43right but I don't live in your shoes and I would never judge you on that fact but from
3:46:49an outsider looking in to have to live under those conditions to have to lie continually
3:46:57you're going to ask a question why
3:47:07and if that's the way that you have to live that's the way you have to live
3:47:11but people will judge you on your life right
3:47:21so is there anything else that you that you think that you can think of that might help us
3:47:46there was this one person who added me on Facebook
3:47:58and I found it weird that he had added me out of nowhere
3:48:04and I had looked in common friends and saw that he was friends with this girl that girl Christine
3:48:11when I spoke to Daniel about it I don't know if he told her or not
3:48:16but I asked him like is she just casual friends with him or is he she good friends with him
3:48:25and the day after I asked him this they were no longer friends on Facebook
3:48:32who is this guy what did he look like Casey law I've never met him apparently
3:48:38went to high school as well but I don't recall ever meeting him
3:48:45and he kept asking me questions that
3:48:49I don't know if it's just his personality but he asked me questions as that were
3:48:54too abrupt someone you just met like what give me an example
3:49:02he asked if I had a boyfriend and if I was looking for a boyfriend and if I engaged in Sex and
3:49:12things like that so that's the kind of question he was you know provoking you
3:49:21Casey law and did you recognize the name from school
3:49:27but again I don't remember ever even having a conversation with him and so he said he went
3:49:33to your school yeah but he was older than me he's older than you and what what does he look
3:49:41like Chinese guy yeah when I when I talked to him he said that he was working like security
3:49:52okay so that's that's on on things that strange things that have happened to you recently that's
3:50:00that's it that you can think of is that that one and plus obviously the the stuff that was
3:50:05going on with Christine and then because the ghost messages that you were receiving right
3:50:10from from these were numbers that didn't exist or they didn't have anything no
3:50:15it was blocked block numbers and when I called Rogers they said that's not possible
3:50:22for a text message to come in with a block number yes
3:50:26okay
3:50:35so um you know that whenever everything you've told us has been under oath
3:50:42you know that part of it our job is is to go back and
3:50:48look at what you've told us to try and match up to the reality of what we have
3:50:53evidence that we have right and you said you're you where you you said essentially
3:51:01nothing you didn't really change much from your first statement to
3:51:04your second statement right you've uh you've explained more we've we've covered off more
3:51:11but is there anything in this course of these that you think you want to change
3:51:23you made me like it now I feel like I've said something wrong you have not
3:51:27I I don't know if you said do you have to me oh no I've said everything that I know
3:51:31that's true and I'm asking you is it from reflecting on what you've told me today
3:51:36which is fairly consistent with the first statement it's just there's more detail now
3:51:41is there anything in there from what you've been going down and what you think it should
3:51:45be right on the tip of your tongue if you want to change something it would be like
3:51:50you know what I said this and I I really meant this it's not something you've missed
3:51:55it's something that you knowingly have said that you want to change that you
3:51:58know was wrong or could be taken wrong okay well well first thing the school
3:52:04thing yes I didn't go to university but I told my parents that I went for a few years
3:52:11right hello how long did you tell him that how long ago did they find out told them everything
3:52:17when I was going I was seeing Daniel and that I only I told him I only went partial school okay
3:52:25and I told them all and when was that what year was that when how long ago a year and a half ago
3:52:29so is this when the ultimatum come down is after is that at that point the ultimatum care about it
3:52:36uh there there's always been ultimatums like they always gave me a second but the one that
3:52:41you made the choice where you were at because you say that was about a year and a half ago
3:52:44too is that part of when you came clean to a certain extent you say you came clean coming
3:52:51clean would be Mom and Dad no I didn't clean but I came like when I when I said
3:52:58when I said what they know and that was a year and a half ago yes okay
3:53:05so there's one that you've we've clarified is there anything else that you can think of
3:53:15there anything
3:53:19that like I everything I said is what I said that's all I know yeah and we feel like you're
3:53:26looking at me to for me to try and tell you what I think you've said was wrong
3:53:30I don't know I I'm telling you that I'm um I I've heard everything that you've had to say
3:53:38I don't have this uh miraculous TV ability that says I can pull out a chunk of this and say to
3:53:45you that portion's wrong I can tell you from what you've told us we're going to compare it with all
3:53:51the evidence we have and see how consistent it is there's no way you're expected to be a
3:53:57hundred percent it's impossible okay eyewitnesses for every event we know are have don't have the
3:54:04ability to recall everything so that's why we ask you due to the best of your ability
3:54:11my concern lies in the fact of your lying okay in you've never lied to me
3:54:19before I've never met you to be a liar but the fact is is that you've lied about
3:54:26stuff to Daniel you've lied to your parents so
3:54:33could you be lying to me I can't why couldn't you be lying because you're scaring me
3:54:39doesn't mean that you couldn't be lying to me right I don't know you I've known you
3:54:45now for probably five hours intermittent I hope you're not lying to me that's all I can hope for
3:54:55but the fact of the matter is is that those three things are sitting there saying you know like
3:55:00the ability to trick your parents for a long period of time
3:55:08very explainable and I also weren't lit I wasn't living Where You Are right and I'm
3:55:13so I'm not going to prejudge you because I people do what they need to do to survive
3:55:19so it could very easily be justified as a survival mechanism this is the best Avenue that you saw it
3:55:23and you were stuck in it okay but the fact is is that my job is is trying to get the root of a of
3:55:30a severely serious crime and I have to explore every Avenue that we possibly can so I'm going
3:55:37to do everything in my power to either prove us as our police agency prove or disprove what you've
3:55:43told us the more we prove or can corroborate the more credibility you you have as as a witness okay
3:55:53okay that's going to happen we may even ask you to come back again again it will be not for you will
3:56:02not be explaining what happened in a grand scheme of things because you've done that up and down and
3:56:08backwards it may be for points of clarification okay because again we're speaking to we're going
3:56:13to be going and likely speaking to some of your friends and your relatives and it's just points
3:56:19of clarification may not happen it may you know I'm only saying that it may I told you I didn't
3:56:25want to do the five and six and seven interviews with you well after today that's not going to
3:56:30happen but we may be contacting you to help us for some other points that we come across okay again
3:56:37it goes back to your credibility but I don't no one's going to sit you down and crank you through
3:56:44the events unless you were involved in it right and then I can't then all
3:56:50all promises are all everything comes off if you had some involvement in this then
3:56:57I'm just saying all the all the rules if you didn't have anything to do with this
3:57:03and you're telling me the truth then we may be calling you to add is this true what this
3:57:10person's saying that this way and we may be asking you points like that okay you you're our only link
3:57:18you're it until your dad regains he is back and being able to be be spoken to right now you're our
3:57:25only linked to this case so where we may rely on you heavily on until we can speak to your father
3:57:34so don't be afraid if you've told the truth the last thing you should be afraid of is is
3:57:39anything if you've told the truth and you've been truthful through this whole process
3:57:44then you're helping you're doing your part okay and don't be afraid of me
3:57:50I'm just afraid because you know I know everything is just all pointing
3:57:57negatively right now and I I don't understand why it's not all pointing negative and you know
3:58:02what you're you're so you're misunderstanding things that you're thinking it's all negatively
3:58:06pointing anywhere it's not pointing anywhere right now we are still Gathering and Gathering
3:58:11and Gathering there is no direction that we're there's nothing you are
3:58:16not a suspect in this in this investigation okay you're a witness and a victim of a crime
3:58:27you're you're speaking to me it's kind of like I know you said that you had to
3:58:32say those things but it's yeah it's here and I've already said it to the special victims
3:58:40yesterday but there's like ideas in my head yeah and I'm afraid to say it out loud but
3:58:48ideas about speculation of what happened how it happened ideas of why why wasn't I there
3:58:59it's you you that psychologically is an issue that you need to straighten out with counseling
3:59:08okay for you to speculate into the investigation as to why you weren't there unless unless it's
3:59:14standing out I believe you said in your opinion was is that they said I cooperated right
3:59:22and in uh in a case that makes no sense that could be the only sense that we get out of
3:59:28the investigation is that strange things happen strange things happen so yeah unfortunately uh
3:59:38at times some of us have to point the finger seem like we're pointing the finger and it
3:59:42really is just to provoke you to see what you're going to do how you're going to respond Okay so
3:59:50it's only a question and it it's been answered and if you've been truthful
3:59:54okay you have nothing to fear absolutely nothing okay
4:00:03what do you want to say
4:00:07that I got a phone call once and like I said earlier I don't know if you it it was like zoned
4:00:15in but they caught it they said that they can make everything disappear and that's what I'm afraid of
4:00:21because you're asking me all these questions and I'm answering them truthfully but I'm afraid that
4:00:27well I can't answer them for you well there's some you know not your the technology exists you know
4:00:34um there is some technology out there I'm sure that can make things disappear and I know that
4:00:39not everything is captured so you know we go back to interviewing someone else who may say
4:00:44yeah well she told me about this and uh or I had similar things so there's other ways around it
4:00:51it's not this case isn't going to hinge on small inconsistencies right it's not going
4:00:57to hinge on something it's not doing consistency it's I'm afraid of what is out there because you
4:01:04you shine a light that it could have been because of what he's involved in is it not a possibility
4:01:12I know like you have given me that and with that I'm just like I'm scared because
4:01:20it could be anybody out there right now it could be anyone
4:01:24and that's the reality of it we don't we're the theories we're we're at the
4:01:30same position you as speculating as the theories and reasons why
4:01:35you can't be confined in your theories because you know if you're sitting here looking like this
4:01:40you know at a small with the blinders on that this is it's like this we got to think at every
4:01:46possible way that it could that this crime could have been happening and you know saying
4:01:50that it could have been Daniel yeah could have been in a random act could have been a
4:01:56random could they have been targeted because of something that yeah it could have been
4:02:00we've got to explore them all and then try and figure out which one through motive and
4:02:06opportunity and means was likely to have occurred and hopefully we start to focus down on suspects
4:02:14but right now there's no fingers being directed at anyone
4:02:18it's just I feel that's what you're meant to feel okay that's what you're meant to feel
4:02:29but there's nothing right now other than what you told me about the changing where you fix it at the
4:02:33end of it I just wanted to clarify that okay so is there anything else not off the top of my head
4:02:51so we're back to this last question that uh comes back to is is there anything else I should
4:02:56note of uh to understand your statement fully and that's again is that this is where you'll
4:03:00drop in that I took five hits fast and before I you're not on drugs you're not uh taking like or
4:03:06you're not taking any medication here you you voluntarily gave this statement and you did it
4:03:16having a full understand of what you've told me yes yes
4:03:30okay so the recorders are being shut off as we speak
4:03:36the type thank you so much for watching if you'd like to support my channel the
4:03:42best thing you can do is like And subscribe we will see you next time

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