Full Interview With Billy McFarland of Fyre Festival — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00already committed the crime though right
2. 0:01stop what do you mean you need to give
3. 0:03him that money what does that mean
4. 0:05ultimately it was going to jail
5. 0:06regardless ultimately it was going to
6. 0:07jail
7. 0:08regard hey what's up guys what's up this
8. 0:11is Billy McFarland founder and CEO of
9. 0:14fire Festival yes introduce yourself
10. 0:17really quickly uh founder of Fire have
11. 0:19been working in the tech and
12. 0:20entertainment space for what 15 years
13. 0:22now decied to dive in yeah absolutely so
14. 0:26my biggest question is do you think
15. 0:28people are Bor
16. 0:30BN
17. 0:32frauders uh I would have said yes 5
18. 0:36years ago but after going to jail and
19. 0:39going in with this conception there are
20. 0:40good guys and bad guys in the world I
21. 0:41think that notion is totally false
22. 0:43interesting probably 5% of the people in
23. 0:45there were truly bad MH and they 95%
24. 0:48fall somewhere in the spectrum that the
25. 0:50rest of the world does and Desperation
26. 0:53and need leads to fraudulent decisions
27. 0:56whether that's selling drugs or
28. 0:58committing a financial crime inspiration
29. 1:00ultimately results in the ACT but a
30. 1:02small number of people probably are bad
31. 1:04yeah so one of the things that I've been
32. 1:05thinking about recently is like do you
33. 1:07think people who commit fraud that
34. 1:09that's just sort of what they know so
35. 1:10there's like an exposure environment
36. 1:12element and and I'll expand on that you
37. 1:14know I think kids back in the day in the
38. 1:16ghetto they see drug dealers right and
39. 1:18they wanted to be drug dealers Now They
40. 1:20See Kai Senate and they see streamers
41. 1:21they want to be streamers so do you
42. 1:23think it's a a factor of their
43. 1:24environment and their element I think
44. 1:26humans have always wanted a shortcut to
45. 1:28success and people who jump in that
46. 1:29shortcut train are more apt to commit
47. 1:32fraud and social media has almost
48. 1:34exacerbated this problem because we see
49. 1:36all these celebrities we see all these
50. 1:38business people who have the life you
51. 1:39want to have and we feel like we deserve
52. 1:41it and it's like why can this streamer
53. 1:43live like this and I can't when I'm just
54. 1:45as smart as him and I work just as hard
55. 1:47I think that almost contributed to
56. 1:49people wanting to commit fraud to take
57. 1:50that shortcut yeah do you think like
58. 1:52with fire for instance do you think
59. 1:54there was an element of misaligned
60. 1:55incentives like for instance you know
61. 1:57you were on the VC treadmill early like
62. 1:59did do you think it was so you know uh
63. 2:02Zero Sum game you're like I got to do
64. 2:04whatever it takes right now to make this
65. 2:05happen I was really scared of letting my
66. 2:07investors down so my mentality was my
67. 2:09investors want two things one they want
68. 2:10to make money and two they want to have
69. 2:12fun Through Fire and Fire festival and
70. 2:14if fire Festival doesn't succeed both of
71. 2:16those objects fail so I need to make
72. 2:19this work at all costs I think
73. 2:21ultimately my like shortcut decision-
74. 2:23making Behavior attracted other people
75. 2:25who wanted to take shortcuts too so I
76. 2:27believe that like the negative I was
77. 2:30putting out there and the bad decisions
78. 2:31were attracting hundreds of employees
79. 2:33who also share that same mentality which
80. 2:35led to a colossal failure yeah do you do
81. 2:37therapy uh I do now yeah cuz the one
82. 2:40thing I was wondering I was like what do
83. 2:41you think your underlying negative selft
84. 2:43talk is that's that's a good question
85. 2:46yeah yeah I think I really want to move
86. 2:48fast and I want to keep proving no
87. 2:51that's not negative selft talk it kind
88. 2:52of is it's like you're not doing enough
89. 2:53you're not going fast enough and
90. 2:55wherever you are today is like sucks
91. 2:56you're a [ __ ] loser like you need to
92. 2:58do more to push it to the next step yeah
93. 3:00one of my therapists said uh my negative
94. 3:02selft talk was that I am not wanted so I
95. 3:04would do all of these things to like
96. 3:06prove to the world that I'm worthy and
97. 3:08I'm wanted like all right if my family
98. 3:11doesn't want me well I'm going to make
99. 3:12you need me and then I would like do
100. 3:14those things you know bad no I think
101. 3:17well I don't know but I thought it was
102. 3:20interesting you know so the thing that I
103. 3:22was getting at is like do you think
104. 3:23you're doing or were doing these things
105. 3:26because you had this kind of like
106. 3:27childhood trauma whatever you want to
107. 3:30call it and then like Maybe This n That
108. 3:32was actually driving it I had four years
109. 3:34at prison to think about all of this and
110. 3:35this is probably the one question I
111. 3:36can't answer still so yeah I think it's
112. 3:38really hard to understand like why and
113. 3:40what actually drives us yeah and the
114. 3:42little surface level things are pretty
115. 3:44easy like yeah it's great to push
116. 3:45boundaries it's great to take people to
117. 3:47place never been but ultimately like I
118. 3:49think it's hard to pinpoint what that
119. 3:50one internal driver or desire really is
120. 3:53all right my one question I forgot about
121. 3:55this so you get out you're out on bail
122. 3:57you have this email list people who have
123. 3:59a lot of discretionary income they
124. 4:02bought a trip to the Bahamas for a music
125. 4:04festival you send them emails to go to
126. 4:06these exclusive events the Met Gala
127. 4:09Victoria Secret fashion show that's a
128. 4:11quick cash grab do you think it's a
129. 4:13compulsion to like do that or is that
130. 4:16all you knew like I'm curious like the
131. 4:18the why behind that it was just purely
132. 4:20living out of fear I had an investor
133. 4:22tell me I need to give him X or else I
134. 4:24was going to go to jail so I was show
135. 4:25like one track mind I need to give him
136. 4:27this money and it turned out not do you
137. 4:29mean you need to give him that money
138. 4:30what does that mean it wasn't true he
139. 4:32called like his LP is like I need a
140. 4:34return like they sorry it an individual
141. 4:36Angel so it's a guy who brought in a
142. 4:38group of friends I'm like yeah they're
143. 4:40well-connected guys but ultimately I was
144. 4:41going to jail regardless so he called me
145. 4:43and said I need X millions of dollars or
146. 4:44else you're [ __ ] and the call had
147. 4:47already been made and I was already
148. 4:48[ __ ] I committed a crime and I was
149. 4:49scared and delusional thinking I could
150. 4:50still pull things off and yeah it was
151. 4:52totally wrong so you needed the cash
152. 4:54you're in a bind and that's the only way
153. 4:56you're able to do it so you're like I'm
154. 4:57willing to do this because it's the only
155. 5:00thing I know yeah I think it's hard like
156. 5:02you wake up one day and you had 700
157. 5:04employees dat before now you have
158. 5:06nothing and you have an investor who's
159. 5:07incredibly powerful who calls you and
160. 5:09says if you don't give me X millions of
161. 5:10dollars you're going to be in the cover
162. 5:12of the Washi journal the handcuffs and
163. 5:13you're 25 years old and trying to
164. 5:15realize all of that like I think it's
165. 5:16like yeah it led to rational behavior
166. 5:18and you had already committed the crime
167. 5:20though right I already committ the crime
168. 5:21yeah cuz I was going to say I feel like
169. 5:22if I hadn't committed the crime it
170. 5:24depends where I was at in my life but if
171. 5:26I was confident enough I would have told
172. 5:27him to kick rocks you know
173. 5:30uh and hard to say when the FBI is being
174. 5:32none your door yeah yeah I mean if you
175. 5:33already committed the crime that's just
176. 5:35not great I don't know not great I think
177. 5:37I would use his money charter jet and go
178. 5:39somewhere else but anyway I don't have
179. 5:41your balls then so uh all right so do
180. 5:45okay so I'm all right so back to the
181. 5:47question do you think uh do you think it
182. 5:49is like a compulsion and I I said um I
183. 5:53said to someone yesterday I was like do
184. 5:54you think it's I I almost was thinking
185. 5:56of it like addiction I don't know if you
186. 5:57have any experience with like addiction
187. 5:59or recovery like I do and uh I was
188. 6:01wondering like do you think it's kind of
189. 6:03like that like this gambling like fraud
190. 6:05compulsion or or is it really just
191. 6:07that's all I knew I think there's like a
192. 6:08compulsion against being bored and I
193. 6:11think we all kind of different levels of
194. 6:12boredom but one of my biggest flaws is
195. 6:13that I would have a dream or have a goal
196. 6:15and I would get there be like oh this
197. 6:16kind of sucks like what's the next thing
198. 6:19and instead of taking a level-headed
199. 6:20approach to finding what the next thing
200. 6:22is it's like jumping off a higher diving
201. 6:24board right away to get that next thrill
202. 6:26or like try to push a level to the next
203. 6:28next crazy Stone yeah do you think
204. 6:32uh that's interesting um why do you
205. 6:36think you you can't sit still I don't
206. 6:37know I wish I could I wish I could
207. 6:39figure it out but what are what are some
208. 6:41potential ideas if you're whiteboarding
209. 6:43why why Billy can't sit still I think we
210. 6:45are I personally like uh believe that
211. 6:48different goals or outcomes or level of
212. 6:50success comes with various things that I
213. 6:52desire and once you get there you
214. 6:54realize like life isn't all that
215. 6:55different and why do you desire those
216. 6:58things I think I think I just desire the
217. 7:00challenge right and saying like why
218. 7:02could I sit around when I can like try
219. 7:03to reach this level when you get to that
220. 7:05level in some capacity you're like oh
221. 7:06wait this isn't giving me what I thought
222. 7:07it would give me so I need to do more to
223. 7:09get there and ultimately it's like a
224. 7:10never ending path and it doesn't end
225. 7:12well what's your attachment style what
226. 7:14does that mean like insecure attachment
227. 7:16are you like secure attachment are you
228. 7:18anxious attachment I don't know is there
229. 7:20like an an adrenaline
230. 7:22attachment no like like one of the
231. 7:24things again I've only only recently
232. 7:26been doing a lot of like therapy that's
233. 7:27why I'm curious in asking these
234. 7:29questions but you know like for instance
235. 7:31with anxious attachment it's like you
236. 7:32you think people are going to leave you
237. 7:34so like you want the connection to them
238. 7:36but you're actually not able to connect
239. 7:38because you're like you push them away
240. 7:39you keep them at a distance and I was
241. 7:41actually curious if that was kind of
242. 7:43like playing into a lot of this stuff
243. 7:45you know you're like I don't I'm not
244. 7:46going to let people fully in maybe you
245. 7:48let people kind of in but you still keep
246. 7:50everyone at a distance and then when
247. 7:51you're not actually like connecting with
248. 7:53them and like getting the like chemicals
249. 7:55you know released you actually feel
250. 7:57alone interesting I definitely think
251. 7:58that was a factor
252. 7:59I think I was craving a large number of
253. 8:01relationships and ultimately had very
254. 8:03few real relationships so I was looking
255. 8:05for numbers like quantity over quality
256. 8:08and I didn't I didn't know that was a
257. 8:09problem yeah I think that's actually
258. 8:11super interesting right there it's like
259. 8:13why could I bring five people when I
260. 8:14could bring 50 people but then
261. 8:15ultimately they're all empty and you
262. 8:17know everybody's there for an nefarious
263. 8:19reason it's like that saying it's like
264. 8:20there's all these people around but I
265. 8:21feel alone yeah I still have no friends
266. 8:23no true like connections yeah that sucks
267. 8:26yeah do so like do you think this is a a
268. 8:28problem not not necessarily fraud like
269. 8:30this but again I'm kind of getting back
270. 8:31and obviously I want to tie it back into
271. 8:33like Sher Willow stuff but like when
272. 8:34incentives are misaligned you know it's
273. 8:36like what can companies do to make sure
274. 8:39and definitely don't plug any of our
275. 8:41[ __ ] but like it's like what can
276. 8:42companies do to kind of ensure that this
277. 8:45doesn't happen incentives are align for
278. 8:47instance right now like we integrate
279. 8:49into a platform where we show our bank
280. 8:51account to all of our investors you know
281. 8:52we show our like stripe account like
282. 8:54they can see everything right and then
283. 8:56like our employees I'm pretty
284. 8:57transparent about sort of everything
285. 8:59like what do you think can be done now
286. 9:01to sort of like make sure this doesn't
287. 9:03happen I mean that's great and like I
288. 9:05think it's the biggest first step I
289. 9:06think number two is if someone is always
290. 9:09only telling you positive news and
291. 9:11everything is always Rosy that person is
292. 9:13hiding something pretty bad uh I was
293. 9:15really bad every investor update this
294. 9:17was our best one ever yeah it's not it's
295. 9:19not possible and I was really bad at
296. 9:21delivering bad news and it led me to
297. 9:23start lying about how great things are
298. 9:24going and I think one I was committing
299. 9:26fraud but two I was also scaring away
300. 9:28the help that I need to succeed because
301. 9:30smart people who didn't know me would
302. 9:31see this and be like hey this is not
303. 9:33possible 100% that's whenever someone
304. 9:35like whenever I feel like someone not
305. 9:37being like authentic with me I'm like I
306. 9:39can't connect with them because like I
307. 9:40don't feel like they're being honest and
308. 9:43it's like why would I want to be how can
309. 9:44I help them you know if they're not
310. 9:46doing that interesting so so what are
311. 9:48you up to now yeah working on Fire 2
312. 9:50stop stop it's going to be a hit I'm
313. 9:54sure it is yeah yeah so uh so what else
314. 9:57so doing a lot of marketing work for
315. 9:58other Venture back startups to kind of
316. 10:00keep the lights on but main focus is on
317. 10:02Fire 2 and a lot of ancillary projects
318. 10:04we're doing a Broadway musical doing a
319. 10:06couple of TV shows so have products
320. 10:08around Fire 2 but ultimately like
321. 10:10executing Fire 2 is the is the goal nice
322. 10:12man well I wish you I wish you the best
323. 10:14thank you so much for doing this
324. 10:15interview thank you of course yeah
325. 10:17thanks guys yeah