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FULL INTERVIEW | Sam Williams speaks for the 1st time on the murders of Johnny Clarke & Lisa Straub — Transcript

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0:00so what was your life like before
0:02september 22nd you said you were living
0:04the street life start
0:05i was living the street life yes i was
0:08um
0:08i was engaging in criminal activity i
0:12i did i call myself a petty drug dealer
0:15i wasn't this big time drug dealer where
0:18i made
0:18a lot of money but i made a little bit
0:21of money enough money to survive enough
0:22money to take care of
0:24my family and my kids pay the bills um
0:28then my girlfriend she we ended up
0:31getting married
0:32and we now have been divorced
0:35um she was engaging in prostitution
0:39i was agreeing to that i never
0:42told her hey don't do this i kind of
0:45like stipulated to it
0:46it was something that we both understood
0:50so um sam what kind of drugs were you
0:54dealing
0:55uh it varied but mostly
0:59it was heroin and um
1:02that was really it other drugs that i
1:05have
1:05dealt with before have been cracked in
1:08cocaine
1:10so talk about um the day that you were
1:12arrested september 22nd
1:14how did that all go down okay so
1:18september 22nd as i remember it
1:22it was a real kind of like just mope
1:25around me i woke up really late
1:28and um my then girlfriend
1:31she had went to work so i was at the
1:34house
1:35so i ended up having a couple friends
1:37come over and
1:39we just was playing the video game and
1:42uh
1:44so i went outside to meet
1:47um somebody and i really seemed like
1:52police like in unmarked cars driving
1:55around the house so it kind of made me
1:56paranoid
1:57and i was i really didn't understand
2:00that obviously i was selling drugs at
2:02the time
2:02so um so did you think that they could
2:05possibly
2:06be there to arrest you for the drugs
2:10um if that would have been a possibility
2:12however they wasn't looking at the house
2:14they wasn't looking at me in any kind of
2:16way they just
2:17what i thought to be true because there
2:20was one of my friends that lived two
2:22blocks
2:23uh from me i believe because they kept
2:26turning down that way
2:28uh towards dearborn that they was
2:32really gonna go raid his house that's
2:35what i thought
2:37so then what happened they uh go down
2:40so i was low on cigarettes
2:43so i asked my my brother ended up coming
2:45over to buy some drugs from me
2:47and then he um he as he was leaving i
2:51asked him i said hey can you go down to
2:53the corner store and buy me a pack of
2:55cigarettes he said
2:57i'll run down there but i don't want to
2:59come back in
3:00he was like just come down there with me
3:02so
3:03i was like well all right i'll run down
3:05there i ain't got nothing to do
3:07so i was going to get in the car and as
3:10soon as i crossed the street on spring
3:13grove
3:14then all of the unmarked cars the u.s
3:18marshals and the
3:19the detectives in the toledo police
3:22department
3:23had uh pulled out their guns and
3:26laid me down to arrest me
3:29and you had no idea why absolutely not
3:32when i
3:33uh talked to like they was asking me
3:37questions obviously what's your name
3:39you know who are you why do you got all
3:41this money in your pocket
3:43um at that moment i had said to him
3:47because i had a
3:48warrant for one of my domestic violence
3:51charges that i pled to
3:53and i was put on probation for at that
3:56moment i was like i got 30 days in jail
3:58i really don't
4:00care to do the probation when they catch
4:02me i'll go do my 30 days and i'll be
4:03done with it
4:05so at that moment i asked the u.s
4:07marshal that was a put in the handcuffs
4:09on me
4:10i said you guys really come and get
4:12people for misdemeanor domestic
4:14violence charges and at that moment he
4:17said
4:17yeah so i was
4:21mind-boggling that it was coming to get
4:24me for a misdemeanor four
4:26so when i was in the back of the the
4:29toledo police cruiser on my way to the
4:31county jail
4:33i was trying to engage in with the
4:36officers and ask them um what was
4:41i arrested for and they said
4:44it's bigger than me he said if you don't
4:46know you will real shortly
4:48and they took me to the front of the
4:51jail
4:52instead of behind the jail into booking
4:54so
4:55when they took me to the front of lucas
4:57county
4:58um two detectives which
5:02i believe it was kozak and williams
5:06came out in their suits and i seen the
5:09stars
5:10on their badge so i believe right then
5:13and there that there was the fbi
5:15um couple months well
5:18i take that back november of
5:22that that past year 2010
5:26i was arrested for promoting
5:27prostitution
5:29and they never indicted me on the case
5:32at all so
5:33what i thought in my mind was the fbi
5:37come and got me
5:38and that's what i was being arrested for
5:40was the prostitution charge
5:42so johnny and lisa were killed on
5:44longacre
5:45at uh at the straub home have you ever
5:49been to the straub home
5:51i've never been to the straw home at all
5:54and i told the detectives that when i
5:56was interviewed
5:58did you know johnny and lisa i never met
6:02johnny i never met lisa
6:04i never knew anybody that knew them
6:08at all until after i was in the county
6:12jail
6:12and i got my first um
6:16round of motion to discovery and found
6:19out that there was one person that knew
6:22them and knew us alexandra
6:26alexandra cruz yes
6:29how did you know her um
6:32victoria is my first son's mother
6:36um she had a baby with another man by
6:39the name of nate popovich
6:41nate popovich had two kids with
6:44alexandria
6:46so through growing up childhood friends
6:50um she was from oregon we was from the
6:54east side
6:54so when they ended up
6:57they were boyfriend and girlfriend
6:59before she was even pregnant
7:01they she would come over and hang out
7:03with us
7:04and kind of like you know kick it you
7:06know we would smoke weed
7:08things of that nature did she ever
7:10mention johnny or lisa to you
7:12i never at all you never heard that name
7:15i never heard the name ever until the
7:17day i was arrested
7:19did you know matey clark i never never
7:22met her don't know who that is
7:24um so let's talk about january 31st
7:28where were you that night
7:30so january 31st um
7:34i believe that at the time that i got
7:37arrested
7:38i really didn't know where i was at
7:40because of
7:42you know how long the time had he left
7:44it had been eight months
7:46i lived in the streets so really i would
7:48bounce from this house to that house
7:50and um so at that moment i couldn't
7:54i couldn't tell however since i have
7:57you know had the opportunity to examine
8:00my phone records and
8:02kind of like remember back and just have
8:04enough time to
8:06just really sit back and and think about
8:09it
8:10i know that i was at the bottom line bar
8:13watching the pro bow with a few other
8:17people
8:18which one was destiny madrid the girl
8:21that got arrested on my case
8:24um my cousin larry gilhouse was there
8:28eddie flores um was there
8:32and there was other people that was in
8:34that bar obviously
8:38um you said the bottom line bar where's
8:40that at exactly
8:42that's located on start avenue
8:45and i believe it's on the corner of star
8:48avenue and
8:48foster
8:52did you pay with a credit card that
8:54night
8:55no i did not everything that i paid with
8:57was all cash
8:59um i did have pre
9:02credit cards or debit cards with however
9:05i did not use them
9:07very rarely did i use them do you know
9:09if anybody that was with you use the
9:11credit card
9:14it's a possibility it's a it's a
9:17it's a high possibility that my cousin
9:19larry
9:20he had a legitimate job he he worked
9:24you know he didn't do the street life
9:26you know he actually had a
9:28a good paying job um eddie
9:31he's a you know upstanding citizen
9:34he had a good paying job so he could
9:37have even used
9:38you know a credit card
9:43did you end up telling your attorneys
9:44that you were at a bar
9:47or did that never come up because you
9:48just didn't remember that
9:50no i i did tell them that i was at the
9:53bottom line board
9:55probably
9:58my my trial was in july
10:03i believe so maybe a couple months
10:06before
10:08maybe may may june area
10:11you know um after i was going through
10:14discovery and really like i said looking
10:16into them phone records and sitting back
10:18thinking about where was i at night
10:22so the pro bowl started at seven o'clock
10:24that night
10:25i'm guessing it would have been over at
10:27about 10 15 or so
10:29you got a phone call at 10 27 from
10:32somebody do you know who that phone call
10:33was from
10:36yes i have um i have got that phone call
10:40and um i believe to
10:43believe that number was destiny madrid's
10:46phone number
10:48but you said she was at the bar with you
10:49right now now let me
10:51let me say this so i dropped
10:54my girlfriend off starla at her
10:58mother's house because children's
11:00services
11:01took the kids and we i wasn't allowed to
11:04be around them at the time because of
11:06the
11:07prostitution charge right um
11:10so on the way to
11:14bottom line there was text messages
11:18i was texting throughout that whole day
11:21i mean from my phone records that i that
11:23i
11:24that i have in my possession they start
11:27at 8 14 and there's text messages
11:31all the way through let's say
11:35hold on really fast
11:50do you have copies of the text messages
11:52sam
11:53i don't have i don't have copies of the
11:55text messages
11:56i want to know why they was not
12:00given in this report from the phone
12:03records
12:04that's a very important issue that
12:08will determine and prove my innocence
12:14that is very very very important
12:18so 8 14
12:22p.m on this sheet
12:25the first text message is recorded
12:30the
12:31[Music]
12:35last text message
12:38recorded is
12:4311 43
12:47so to be exact there was
12:5226 incoming text messages
12:56in that time and 20 outgoing text
12:59messages
13:00at that time
13:03that is a whole conversation to
13:07two different people
13:13who were the two people one was
13:17my first ex-wife's sister
13:20um nikayala garcia
13:24and then the second one
13:27is to um the number of who i believes it
13:31was
13:31destiny madrid's phone number
13:37so destiny wasn't at the bar with you
13:39the entire time
13:41so the plan was for me to drop starla
13:45off
13:46so she can hang out with her kids
13:50and for me to really have free time to
13:54do whatever i wanted to do
13:56what i chose to do was i chose to go
13:59pick up destiny and spend time with
14:01destiny
14:02so on the way to picking destiny up i
14:05was texting her trying to make plans as
14:07to what we was gonna do that night
14:09okay um so
14:13i went and picked her up her grandmother
14:15lived
14:17on thurston street the corner of
14:19thurston
14:20and i believe it's mason so it was like
14:23maybe a block away from
14:25the bar
14:30and then we went straight to the bottom
14:32line bar
14:36where did you go after the bar or how
14:38long were you at the bard you know
14:40so to my recollection i believe i was at
14:44the bar
14:45that entire night at least until last
14:47call
14:48at last call was i believe at two
14:50o'clock in the morning
14:52um after that
14:56there had um been conversation
14:59that we was gonna try to go to another
15:01bar
15:03and uh you know still try to get that
15:05last
15:06that last beer in and uh
15:09i can't remember exactly where i went to
15:14specifically however
15:18through my phone records it can show
15:21that i was
15:22nowhere other than the east side of
15:25toledo
15:27throughout that whole night
15:36so starting at like 2 30 between 2 30
15:39and 3 30 there were six phone calls from
15:41you
15:43trying to reach cameo i don't think he
15:45picked up
15:46on any of those why were you trying to
15:48call him i was looking for a place to
15:51ultimately take this woman and have
15:54relations with
15:55um she was what some people would call
15:59a mistress you know so
16:03my then girlfriend was pregnant with my
16:07son
16:08and i did not have any intentions on
16:12going back
16:12to her and sleep with her because she
16:16stayed at her mother's that night
16:18so i had foreign to do whatever i wanted
16:20to do
16:21that night so i was looking for a place
16:24other than
16:25having to spend money at a hotel for a
16:28couple hours
16:29because i was supposed to go pick her up
16:32in the morning
16:34that next morning
16:37so you're trying to get a hold of cameo
16:39why
16:41to go to his house to to sleep at his
16:44house
16:45ultimately i know he would not
16:48tell on me for taking another woman
16:52other than
16:53the woman that i was with the mother of
16:55my child
17:00so let me let me ask you this because i
17:02know this was a big
17:04part in the trial i understand you were
17:07texting throughout but they were
17:09focused on the phone calls and so you
17:11got that phone call
17:13at about 10 27 and you said those you
17:16believe that with destiny
17:18and then there weren't any other calls
17:20until like
17:212 30. hold on no that's wrong that's
17:24that that is not accurate okay i have
17:27the i have the toledo police
17:29the toledo police report right here that
17:32was admitted in my trial
17:34that was false so
17:37to
17:42okay so
17:45i have when it comes to phone calls
17:51i have in total between a 10 hour
17:54and 46 minute window between
17:578 14 p.m on the 30th
18:00and 703 a.m on the 31st
18:04there was 58 incoming calls
18:08and text messages and there was 30
18:12outgoing calls and text messages
18:16there was 32 incoming calls
18:19that they didn't even speak about and
18:22there was
18:2210 outgoing calls so actual phone calls
18:26not text messages
18:28okay so you said between the hours of 2
18:3130 and 3 30 well you talked to cameo
18:34six times between or you tried calling
18:37him six times between
18:382 30 and 3 30. but the
18:42the records that i see are between 10 30
18:45and 2 30 that you had no phone calls
18:49that's inaccurate i have i have the the
18:53okay so so straight phone calls
18:57i have a phone call to a unknown number
19:01at 1203 am
19:04incoming call that lasted 44 seconds
19:09so you answered it i answered that phone
19:12call
19:15and then between
19:18between 2 30 and you said
19:22the door
19:28okay so there was a there was a 178
19:32second call at 301.
19:38which number i believe was my cousin
19:40larry's
19:41after we left the bar we was gonna go to
19:45eat at denny's or we was gonna go to
19:47freeway
19:48to grab a bite to eat was the
19:53that was that phone call um
19:57but but you also had just said that you
19:58were going to get together with
20:01the mistress yes she was with she was
20:04like
20:06okay she was with me and the woman that
20:09larry
20:10was with i believe her name was teresa
20:14right we planned on meeting going to eat
20:16and then
20:17going our separate ways and i was
20:19looking for a place to
20:22lay down right so
20:25sam do you have any explanation
20:28as to how a cigarette with your dna
20:33got into the straub house
20:37i have no explanation i know i did not
20:40place that there
20:41um from the picture that i have seen and
20:44from the information that i heard in my
20:46trial
20:48they did not smell any smoke in that
20:50house
20:51that cigarette butt did not leave any
20:53marks on the floor
20:55that um that cigarette blood was placed
20:59by that door so investigators can find
21:02it
21:03i know that to be true
21:06is it unusual that yours and cameo
21:09dna would both be on that cigarette
21:14there's as um times in the past that
21:18me and him have smoked after each other
21:21so it's not unusual for that to happen
21:24no
21:24okay now another
21:28key point i think in the trial is when
21:30they played a
21:32jail call between you and stephen
21:35pettaway and on that jail call my
21:39understanding and i just saw the article
21:41i haven't actually heard the call
21:44you said something to the fact it was
21:46supposed to be you with me
21:49a little bro had to step up he didn't do
21:52it right
21:53but he did it good enough what was going
21:56on there
21:57okay that was just a piece of the phone
22:00call that they played during the course
22:02of my trial
22:03and um that fit the the narrative that
22:06they was trying to make out
22:08okay um the hope phone call
22:11steven was incarcerated for a while
22:15and me and him had engaged in
22:20when i first started the prostitution
22:23promoting prostitution it was me and him
22:27that really had thought about it and
22:30really said you know what this is
22:31something that we're gonna do
22:33and uh he ended up going to jail on
22:36other charges
22:37now after i was incarcerated
22:43i was talking to him about you know some
22:46of the places that we went
22:47me and keville had went to pittsburgh
22:49pennsylvania
22:50um on a trip strictly for business
22:54um sarah ruper and his
22:58kids mother michelle wayne wright
23:01was with us and starla
23:04was with me and i believe um
23:08there was another girl with me
23:12um marie brewer
23:15um that was what i was talking about
23:19there was other occasions where me and
23:21camille went to
23:23promote prostitution in sandusky ohio
23:29me and cameo really wasn't um
23:33when stephen was out me and cameo he
23:36hung out that was
23:37that's my brother i consider him my
23:39brother we always all of us been close
23:41friends
23:42however when steven's out me and stephen
23:44are together a lot more
23:46when he went to prison you know me and
23:49cameo picked up and
23:51really hung out a lot more so what did
23:54you mean specifically when you said
23:56cameo didn't do it right
23:59but he did it good enough okay so
24:03when i say that he didn't do it right
24:05but did it good enough is
24:08by the laws of promoting prostitution
24:11in my eyes he wasn't doing it the way
24:14that
24:15stephen has done it in the past but he
24:17was making money at doing it
24:20okay um i call him
24:23a petty pimp now he really wasn't making
24:28a a lot of money and when he did make
24:31money
24:32he was spending it on the wrong things
24:34in my eyes
24:36that's what i mean by that so this
24:38conversation was about prostitution
24:40total prostitution it was criminal
24:43activity
24:44that's why i used another person's
24:47pin number when i called from the county
24:49jail i was
24:50let's make this clear while i was in the
24:53county jail
24:54facing these murder charges i still was
24:57engaging in
24:59criminal activity i still wanted the
25:01drugs to be sold
25:02i still wanted the money to come in from
25:05the prostitution
25:09talk to me about eric yingling did you
25:11have a conversation with him
25:13at all related to anything he had tried
25:17to approach me
25:18when i was in the county jail didn't
25:20know who he was
25:22i was very skeptical about him first and
25:24foremost
25:25um i have overheard another guy that was
25:29incarcerated that
25:31um was a little bit older pretty much
25:34kind of knew that he was somebody that
25:37had told previous in the past
25:40and um kind of said
25:43you know hey that guy snitches so
25:45instantly
25:47my red flags had came up and i just
25:50stayed away he did try to engage in
25:53conversation with me so for me to say
25:55that he didn't
25:56would be me lying he did however
25:59i did not have not one single
26:03conversation with him about anything
26:07and when i say anything i mean anything
26:10not the case not my life not who i was
26:14what i
26:14was arrested for nothing at all
26:18so all the things that he talked about
26:20at at trial
26:21that was all known i guess it was in
26:24newspapers it was
26:26known information yes
26:29um to my knowledge everything that he
26:33had
26:34brought up at trial had been either
26:37published in the newspaper or it was
26:39placed on search warrants
26:41and people could obtain that from public
26:43information
26:46even the iraqi dinar information
26:49absolutely they was talking about
26:53the iraqi um currency
26:57on a website called mock form
27:02what what's the website called sam it's
27:04called
27:05mac i have it right here i have the
27:08actual article i had somebody print off
27:10and send it to me
27:14mock forum yes yeah
27:18i think i've seen that so they were
27:19talking about that so it's possible that
27:21he could have seen it
27:23there or somebody told him that
27:25information
27:26well he admitted in my trial that
27:30his wife had researched my case
27:36that was his specific testimony
27:39during direct examination in my trial
27:51but then he got he actually ended up
27:55getting freed from
27:56jail pretty quickly after he told the
27:58story about you
27:59is that correct so this was the thing to
28:02my understanding from the police reports
28:04and the interviews that i have read
28:08his first initial um interview with
28:11the detectives was five days before
28:14christmas
28:15okay he was already sentenced to 10
28:19months
28:20in prison for not paying his child
28:23support
28:27in the moment he was really really
28:30desperate
28:31to not go to prison because he had put
28:34people in prison
28:35before it was christmas time
28:39he's been in the legal system
28:42pretty extensively so he knew that
28:46if he went to the detectives with this
28:49case being
28:50so high profile and then being desperate
28:53that 90 chance he would have
28:56of being able to get released and be
28:59with his family
29:02so you believe that he probably thought
29:04that his life was in danger because he
29:06had snitched before and if he went to
29:08prison
29:09that he could possibly be in danger
29:12absolutely
29:14so let's talk about when you got
29:16arrested so
29:19did they interrogate you did they have a
29:21conversation with you did you lawyer up
29:23what happened
29:24so initially when detective kozak and
29:27williams
29:28met the tpd officers they switched cuffs
29:33they took me into the detective bureau
29:35into an interrogation room
29:37and i told them that i didn't want to
29:40talk
29:40that i wanted to speak to my lawyer
29:43um at that moment they still was trying
29:47to
29:48um talk about you know what's your name
29:52and
29:53you know just um what they call
29:55preliminary things
29:57and uh i answered them questions
30:00um they asked me did i know johnny and
30:02lisa
30:03i specifically told them no they asked
30:06me have i ever been to longacre
30:08and i specifically told them no
30:11and at that moment
30:15when they seen that i wasn't
30:20giving them the information that they
30:22was hoping for
30:23then that's when kozak said then explain
30:26why is your dna on my crime scene
30:29at that moment i had told him this
30:31conversation is over
30:33i want to speak to my lawyer so why
30:36didn't you just say
30:37i have no idea what you're talking about
30:39why would i mean why did you at that
30:41point
30:41say this conversation is over well
30:45i'm not how do i say this um
30:51i have been incarcerated before right
30:53and i know that murder cases
30:55are um very serious um this is a very
30:58serious crime
31:00and i didn't know at that point if
31:04they was using that as a tactic
31:08to get me to talk or
31:12what the intention was however
31:15i knew that if i spoke to my attorneys
31:18i would be able to find more information
31:20now that was more
31:22accurate to me and they would have my
31:24best interests
31:26that's the reason why i did that
31:30did they ever offer to give you a
31:33polygraph
31:35never not one time ever offered to give
31:37me a polygraph test
31:38did you ever offer to take a polygraph
31:41that was never
31:42in no kind of way a discussion between
31:45me and my attorneys
31:46uh attorneys and prosecutors um
31:50attorneys and detective never not one
31:52time did that come to my
31:54um
31:58awareness because you know there are
32:01several people involved in this case
32:03that they gave polygraphs too
32:06absolutely
32:09i mean i would guess that that's
32:11probably got that's got to be a little
32:13upsetting that they offered all these
32:15other people uh
32:16polygraphs and they didn't offer you one
32:19well
32:20i'll say this uh
32:24at the time it does it
32:27it's concerning that why would they ask
32:30all these other people but not ask me
32:33however since um
32:38i know the law about polygraphs and
32:40things of that nature regardless if i
32:43passed it they would say that it's not
32:45admissible in court
32:46and if i don't pass it they're trying to
32:48use it to slander me
32:50in court so i mean it's kind of like a
32:53catch-22 when it comes to polygraphs
32:56cameo took a polygraph test nobody
32:58speaks about that
32:59why because he's passed it
33:02so it's at what point at what point did
33:06you know you're in trouble
33:09as far as well that
33:12oh man they're gonna they're they're
33:14trying to send me down
33:15for uh a murder and i think they're
33:18really
33:19dead set on you know pinning this on me
33:23at what point did you like because i'm
33:25guessing when you went in there you're
33:26like look i had nothing to do with this
33:29at what point did you like oh wow
33:32they're really dead set on pinning this
33:34on me
33:35so when they started
33:38certifying all these confidential
33:41informants
33:42um there was five confidential
33:44informants that was certified against me
33:49what did they say what did who say i'm
33:53sorry
33:54well the confidential informants i mean
33:56what what was their
33:57testimony i mean what were they telling
33:58the police about you okay
34:00so there's to my knowledge there's five
34:04however there are three
34:07that really um
34:10kind of spoke in terms of
34:13of me all of them was while i was
34:16incarcerated
34:18in jail um travis jones
34:23he had been in jail i believe for
34:26i don't know exactly how many counts of
34:29robbery but
34:30he had a x amount of robberies
34:34and he was trying to
34:37get his sentence reduced which he did
34:41he got his sentence redo was because
34:44he said that i don't remember exactly
34:47what he
34:48said uh about me i can get back to you
34:51on that
34:52um eric england he was the most
34:55uh convincing one that's why they put
34:58him on the stand
35:01and uh i can actually send you
35:04all the reports that have
35:07the narratives on what they said about
35:10me
35:11sure that'd be great and then there's
35:13another
35:15ivory carter he was another guy while i
35:18was incarcerated
35:20that um had said things about me
35:25extensively he had five interviews with
35:28the detectives
35:29um eric ingling had five interviews with
35:32the detectives
35:33and i don't know how many travis had
35:36however
35:37all of them was trying to get either
35:41less time or let out in every single one
35:44of them three
35:45had got either less time or let out
35:47behind this
35:48ivory carter was involved in a another
35:51cold case that i worked on
35:53when um kevin carr was killed in toledo
35:56ivory carter was one of the people
35:59suspected in that case
36:02so i'm i'm familiar with that name
36:05um sam let me ask you this what do you
36:08want to say to the families
36:10of lisa and johnny
36:13i would like them to know that i didn't
36:16have anything to do with this
36:18um they only heard the narrative from
36:21the lucas county prosecutors
36:23and i totally understand their pain and
36:25i feel their pain
36:27i too am a victim so i truly do
36:30understand what they're going through
36:32however i did not do this i had no
36:35involvement in this case at all
36:37and i pray that they seek justice for
36:40their family members
36:42i pray that the truth is told one day
36:44that lisa and johnny's killers
36:46will be put behind lars where they
36:49deserve to be
36:51so you believe that you were set up i
36:54believe
36:55that i was set up
36:58i believe that whoever done this
37:02placed that cigarette butt there to
37:04throw investigators off
37:06and i believe that
37:10with the
37:14past record that i had and that promote
37:17and prostitution
37:18charge that i had um detective kozak
37:22arrested me on that case
37:24all right do you know why
37:27somebody would try to set you up
37:31i don't know because there was dna
37:34from me and cameo on there i don't know
37:37specifically if it was me
37:39or if it was cameo however i do know
37:42this
37:44people known that i have um
37:48been in trouble before with the law so
37:51if they thought that wow
37:54this guy put this cigarette butt out and
37:57this would be a good
37:58way of throwing the police off
38:01um he's already been in trouble before
38:04so
38:05possibly his dna is already in this
38:07system
38:08do you know who might want to set you up
38:12do you have suspicions
38:15um i really couldn't answer that
38:18question for you no
38:27let me ask you this and we can we can
38:29talk off the record about this
38:31if you want um
38:34because i understand obviously i'm very
38:36sensitive the fact that you have
38:38litigation
38:39and other stuff but is there information
38:42that you know
38:44that that could help me in going forward
38:46and trying to figure out
38:48who's behind this and again this can be
38:51off the record
38:51nothing you say here would ever be used
38:54on tv
38:55but i'm just wondering if you can help
38:57me
38:58i have no idea who done this i have no
39:02idea
39:03i can't tell you how many hours
39:06i have spent reading the paperwork that
39:10is
39:11in my case i'm talking about hours
39:15and hours and hours of analyzing
39:18re-reading analyzing re-reading
39:21um i can come up with all these theories
39:25i can come up with all these people who
39:28i believe that was involved
39:30but that would be wrong of me because i
39:33have been wrongfully convicted
39:35and i don't want to do this to nobody
39:37else
39:38that's not who i am as a person i truly
39:42couldn't do that to nobody
39:44this was a brutal crime it was brutal i
39:47mean to
39:48put a bag over someone's head duct tape
39:51around their neck
39:52torture them is this something
39:57that you're capable of even doing i
40:00never
40:01contemplated even killing anybody
40:05let alone killing these people in this
40:08manner
40:10um it hurts me every day
40:14to know that the people that are
40:16responsible for this
40:18is outside still walking around
40:22your children my children um
40:25my children soon to be children and
40:28there has been no answers it's alarming
40:31to me
40:31that there was so many people fixated on
40:35this case from day one until my
40:38conviction
40:39and then nobody else has
40:42publicly spoken about this it is
40:46outrageous to me
40:47to know that it is
40:51only what they want to put out
40:55to get a conviction and then when
40:58they want to suppress the rest
41:01that all that matters it it just
41:05it isn't right sam do you believe that
41:07the police had tunnel vision once they
41:09kind of got
41:10your dna and they were just hell bent
41:13on pinning this on you i mean do you
41:16think that they
41:18just got tunnel vision they didn't look
41:20at anybody else i mean talk about
41:21kozak i mean i believe that
41:25the minute that travis
41:29jones and eric ying ling and and and
41:32i've written something
41:33that i would like to read to you
41:48so i was arrested on september 22nd
41:532011 by the lucas county sheriff's
41:55office
41:57i sat in the lucas county jail and i was
41:59prosecuted by the lucas county
42:01prosecutor's office
42:04when i was arrested detective kozak told
42:07me
42:07because i did not talk to him and i
42:10quote he said this
42:12i will make you look like a monster
42:15his goal wasn't to seek truth it was to
42:18get a conviction
42:20so the pressure would be relieved there
42:23was so big of a spotlight on this case
42:26that it didn't matter how it had to be
42:28done
42:30so when travis jones came forward to get
42:33a deal
42:35there was open ears when eric england
42:38came forward
42:40to get out of being sent to prison after
42:42he was already sentenced
42:45they became only more focused on me and
42:48after yingling
42:50comes ivory carter and at last
42:53jason westover now with this false
42:56information
42:58the investigators chose to suppress all
43:01other evidence that points away from me
43:04instead of the ones that actually was
43:08guilty of this crime every false story
43:14every one of these guys told wasn't able
43:16to be corroborated
43:18every single thing that they told
43:20investigators
43:21that they would find evidence here or
43:24there that i told them that evidence was
43:26here or there
43:27they never was able to cooperate not one
43:30thing and investigators was so
43:35desperate it didn't matter to them that
43:37did not matter
43:40from that point on the goal wasn't to
43:42seek justice
43:44for johnny and lisa it was just to
43:46convict samuel williams
43:50there is many questions that need
43:51answers and i will do my best to tell
43:54the truth
43:55in everything that i know i make it my
43:58mission
43:59to seek justice for johnny
44:02lisa and myself and i mean that to you
44:05brian while i sit here today anything
44:09that i can possibly do
44:11to help i'm willing to help
44:14i don't know who done this but i do know
44:18that
44:19there was so much pressure coming from
44:22media
44:23family people across the world
44:28that after my name
44:31was brought up in these confidential
44:34informants came forward they didn't care
44:36about nothing else
44:38there's other evidence that was
44:41in that house that wasn't tested there's
44:44um
44:45unknown male dna on the victims bodies
44:49that's on the cigarette but in the sun
44:51room with sharita crumby's
44:53dna nobody speaks about that there's a
44:56lot of evidence brian that that hasn't
44:58been exposed
45:00and i'm willing to work with you to
45:02expose that
45:05i really appreciate that and i
45:07appreciate what you just said there
45:09um what went through your mind when
45:13you're sitting in the courtroom
45:15and i'm guessing in your mind maybe you
45:17have an idea that this could go bad but
45:19probably in your heart you know that
45:21hey i didn't do this there ultimately
45:23they're gonna find me not guilty but
45:25what went through your mind when they
45:28read
45:29the guilty verdicts
45:35it was a miscarriage of justice i
45:37believe
45:38in that moment that because of
45:41the the heinous crime that had occurred
45:44the brutality that was put in place
45:47i believe that the jury didn't
45:50care about certain facts
45:54i believe that um
45:57they believed eric english and i'm going
45:59to tell you this today as i sit here
46:01right now
46:02had i been a jury member on that journey
46:06and had i not known the truth i too
46:09probably would have believed eric king
46:11wing that's how convincing he came
46:13across
46:14um he is a master manipulator he
46:17is a person that is only
46:21cared about himself and how he can get
46:24out of the things that
46:26he puts himself in and um
46:30i believed in the moments that i was
46:32going to be sentenced to death
46:34for a crime that i didn't commit wow
46:38and i know when you left the the
46:39courtroom after you know you've been
46:41found guilty
46:42you know some of the people in the media
46:44like you know he showed no remorse
46:47he showed no emotion
46:50but what were you feeling inside and i
46:53think i mean why
46:54why were you trying to be maybe in that
46:57moment
46:57it seemed like you're maybe you're
46:59trying to be tough and not show any
47:01emotion
47:02um i don't know
47:07i don't see it in the light of me trying
47:09to be tough
47:10obviously i was trying to hold it
47:12together um
47:14for my family's sake um for my sake but
47:18i'll tell you what
47:20the minute that i went back to myself
47:23it really hit me i was numb
47:27at that moment however and it still hits
47:30me today
47:31it hurts me to know that i may have to
47:35spend the rest of my life in prison
47:38for something that i didn't do it does
47:41it hurts me for that however i still
47:44have hope
47:45and i still believe that there
47:49is dna that proves my innocence
47:53and there is good people out there that
47:56is willing to
47:57help and find the justice for lisa
48:00johnny and myself
48:04did you know eric taylor
48:10i know him from
48:13being around the east side um it's not a
48:16character that i
48:18have been extensively hanging out with
48:21or was part of my inner circle um
48:25i believe he may be been a friend of
48:28another one of my friends um
48:32however i don't know him um specifically
48:35no
48:36so on the night of the murder he had no
48:38communication with him
48:41i haven't had no communication with that
48:44man
48:44in i mean years before that murder
48:48had occurred and and let me make this
48:51clear too
48:52i haven't even had any conversation or
48:56um interaction with alexandria pujno
49:00even months before the murder even
49:04occurred
49:05i couldn't even i think it was like
49:07maybe in 2008
49:09around my felonious assault uh
49:12charge that i got was like really the
49:15last time
49:16that i was like hanging around with her
49:21did did destiny did she ever come and
49:23tell the
49:25the police that hey sam was with me that
49:28night
49:29yes and the story that she gave them
49:33was that we went to a hotel
49:37and obviously there was
49:40eight months that had elapsed and there
49:42has been times where i did take her to a
49:44hotel
49:46however it wasn't that night
49:50so they believed that she was lying
49:53and anything else that she said it
49:57didn't matter to
49:58them because what she told them wasn't
50:00correct you did not take her to a hotel
50:03that night
50:04not that night right there was not no
50:07records
50:08from that exact night of us being in a
50:11hotel
50:12no um
50:16so i've got two more questions and i
50:18know uh michelle is gonna
50:20kick me off here but um hey
50:24so why didn't you testify did you want
50:27to testify
50:28then ultimately why didn't you testify
50:31so i was opposed to testifying however
50:34my counsel um had advised against it
50:38um due to some of the police work
50:42reports that um had been against me
50:45with um relations to me and victoria
50:49while we was going through our divorce
50:52i'm not going to sit here and say that i
50:53didn't
50:54say harmful things to victoria i'm not
50:56gonna sit here and try to make it out
50:58like um
50:59i didn't do nothing wrong we was going
51:02through a divorce
51:03um when he was in a custody battle over
51:06our first son and uh
51:08i did say hurtful things to be exact on
51:11what i said
51:12i couldn't tell you because it's been so
51:15long ago
51:16but me and her talk on a day-to-day
51:18basis and me and her have a friendship
51:21and we try to co-parent as best as
51:23possible
51:24and i'll tell you what i didn't do no
51:26harm to that woman
51:28and i would never do no harm to that
51:29woman
51:31so i'm guessing you have a lot of
51:32regrets in life
51:36um you can say
51:39that i have made some mistakes but i've
51:42learned from each and every one of the
51:43mistakes that i've made
51:46what what do you want people to know i
51:49mean so this
51:50is ultimately your story
51:53what do you want people to know i want
51:55people to know that i was wrongfully
51:57convicted of these murders
51:59and that ultimately there are people
52:01that are responsible for these murders
52:04that are still walking around amongst
52:06them each and every day
52:07thinking life goes on and everything is
52:10okay
52:11however one day they will be in the same
52:13position that i was once in
52:17but the tables will be turned and they
52:19too
52:20will never have another opportunity to
52:22do this to nobody else

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