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From the Archives: Left to Tell, Part 1 [Immaculee Ilibagiza] — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:00you shall receive power when the Holy
0:02Spirit comes upon you and then you shall
0:04be my witnesses to the ends of the Earth
0:07for more than 2,000 years the commission
0:09and promise of the Lord Jesus has
0:11resonated in the hearts and minds of
0:13Believers all over the world and in our
0:15day God is pouring out his Spirit a new
0:18to prepare Humanity for a fresh
0:19proclamation of the Gospel now is the
0:22time of Awakening of conversion of
0:24transformation of every human heart and
0:26mind yet each day Christians are
0:28confronted with situ ations that
0:30compromise their faith and undermine
0:32even the most basic truths who is the
0:35person of Jesus how can we come to know
0:37him in a personal way what does it mean
0:39to live as his disciple where is he
0:42calling us to serve him God loves each
0:45one of us and is calling us to make an
0:47active decision for him in our lives by
0:49the power of the Holy Spirit we can live
0:51holy lives and take up his mission in
0:53the
0:54world these are the choices we face
1:00hey welcome to another week of the
1:02choices we face it's just so amazing to
1:05see what God is doing all over the world
1:07and so many countries and cultures and
1:09so many awe inspiring ways and today
1:12we're really privileged to have with us
1:14as our guest Peter herbeck of course is
1:16with me but uh we have Immaculate Iliza
1:19who has written a book that so many
1:21people are reading and talking about
1:23called Left To Tell discovering God
1:26amidst the Rwanda and Holocaust so
1:27welcome oculi thank you for having me
1:30well thank you so much for coming and uh
1:32what an amazing story you have to tell
1:35but we have a little video that you were
1:37involved in that gives some of the
1:38background of the historical events and
1:40so we're going to take a look at that
1:41first and then we'll we'll come back and
1:43uh talk about what it was like for Youk
2:05[Music]
2:14I was born in
2:16[Music]
2:18Rwanda Rwanda is a tiny country located
2:22in the central
2:24Africa it was and still is one of the
2:28most beautiful places in the world
2:31very green and perfect tropical
2:40weather my Village was in kibu our house
2:44was on a hill that overlooked like
2:57evil my mom and dad were teachers
3:00they were very good parents who were
3:02very respected in the
3:05village in my family we were four
3:07children I was one girl among three boys
3:12we loved each other a lot they were very
3:14protective until the last time we
3:18separated I remember when we were in
3:21primary school we all used to go to swim
3:24in the morning with my brothers and my
3:28father my mother would always stay home
3:32she never liked to
3:38swim the memories I have are of
3:41neighbors who were like parents to
3:45us we knew there were problems between
3:49the hus and
3:51Tois but we never thought they could do
3:55us any harm
4:02when I was in school in
4:031994 it was time for Easter
4:07holiday there was a rebellion going on
4:09an ethnically based Rebellion uh in
4:15Rwanda right after the holiday I had an
4:18exam really an important exam the regime
4:21and Rwanda that was responsible for the
4:23genocide was a criminal
4:25regime it operated uh according to the
4:29logic of criminal
4:31gangs so I wrote to my parents and I
4:33told them I wanted to stay in school to
4:36prepare for my exam and the aim of the
4:39uh of the uh military dictatorship was
4:43to preserve Power by eliminating that
4:46Rebellion my father said we miss you and
4:50you have been away so much away from us
4:53so I went
4:55home and it mobilized hu gangs known as
4:58the inter hamway iias by stoking Their
5:01Fear of of tootsies uh based on a
5:04history of Tootsie domination and
5:07exploitation going back to the Belgian
5:08colonial era is vacation that year
5:12changed everything in my
5:16life you know immaculately it's it's
5:19almost hard to even though I'm an
5:22outsider it's even hard for me to just
5:24even think about what happened you know
5:25the slaughter between the the two
5:28primary ethnic groups in in Rwanda the
5:30hutus and the tosis and a million people
5:35died and and horrible brutality and we
5:39we've seen this happen you know in the
5:41human race you know in different ways it
5:43Springs up this horrible horrible evil
5:46and you came back on Easter vacation and
5:50ended up right in the middle of it why
5:52don't you tell us what it was like for
5:53you and what what you experienced yeah
5:56actually I came home for Easter holidays
5:58and um we need knew something was coming
6:02was going to happen but it haven't yet
6:04started it was like 3 days after 2 days
6:07after Easter actually it was Wednesday
6:09morning when my brother came and broke
6:12the news to me that the plane of the
6:14president was shut down and he died so
6:17in previous Wars any time they killed
6:20people of my tribe was when they were
6:22changing the president and then this
6:24time I remember screaming oh my gosh
6:26they going to kill us and that was
6:29really the beginning instantly I
6:31remember we went outside and to meet my
6:33parents and we heard on radio we were
6:36capturing BBC Radio France everywhere in
6:39the country they gave order that nothing
6:41else Works no Market no school no Bank
6:44opened no work nothing was working
6:47except killing they started to kill
6:49right away like 10 minutes after the
6:51shooting down of the president they
6:53started to kill people saying that Tois
6:56are the ones who have just killed the
6:58president oh so from that time on like 2
7:01days after the whole thing have started
7:03my parents asked me to go to hide
7:05somewhere because it was just like going
7:08crazy and they were burning houses of
7:11toties and they were running people
7:14away wow wow did did you go and hide
7:18then yeah I did went to hide it was I
7:21went to this person who was a pastor he
7:24was a Protestant pastor and um and
7:26actually I remember when I was
7:27separating my parents the last thing we
7:30ever told I didn't even say bye to them
7:33my dad gave me a rosary and I remember I
7:36had a scapular I handed it to him almost
7:40like you know well that this is maybe
7:42the last time you are going to see them
7:44and I really went because I was just
7:45like one daughter they had otherwise I
7:49was asking them why am I the one have to
7:51go to hide but they were more worried
7:53that if any attack comes I want to be
7:56able to run or to protect myself so they
7:58sent me away before and I remember when
8:00he handed me the rosary it was the last
8:03thing he ever gave me and I just left
8:05and I went to this person who was
8:07Protestant pastor and from the Hutu
8:09tribe who were not the Target and when I
8:12reached him he put me to sit in the
8:14bathroom isn't that wonderful I mean
8:17Rwanda I know is a predominantly
8:18Catholic country you're a very committed
8:20Catholic but it was a a HW Protestant
8:24Minister who took you in that that is
8:27that that's wonderful in itself isn't it
8:29yeah and it was really the whole
8:31genocide is something that definitely
8:33taught me a lot taught me a lot of
8:35lessons about life and during the
8:38genocide was a time when you knew that
8:41it didn't matter where you belonged
8:43which religion you belonged to What
8:45mattered was the relationship you have
8:46with God the kind of person you are how
8:49do you respond to to the love the law of
8:51love how do you respond to God's will
8:54not just because you belong somewhere
8:56because after that we realize is that
8:59some priests were involved in killing
9:02some pastors also from Protestants were
9:04involved in killing some head of you
9:08know Muslims and it was just a time
9:10where each individuals have definitely
9:12to to to be who they are no matter where
9:15they belong so that person we knew that
9:18he was autu from the tribe that was
9:20killing but my parents were able to
9:22trust that he can be a person to to hide
9:24you and being even a Protestant then you
9:27can you look at the heart that time not
9:30just where you are yeah and he hit how
9:32many of you how did how did it how did
9:34you all come together were just people
9:36coming to his door and trying knocking
9:37his door help help is that what was
9:38happening yeah that what happened really
9:41they came different ways I never knew
9:43them before only three of them have seen
9:45before three women so we were eight
9:48women and he we just met in the bathroom
9:51and we didn't even care about knowing
9:52who is who where you come from what is
9:55your name and remember when he put us to
9:57sit in the bathroom he told us not to
9:59speak to each other not to make any
10:01noise not even to flush the water of the
10:03bathroom until the toilet until somebody
10:06is flashing the water in the next
10:08bathroom and yeah so no one could hear
10:11now is that because there were lots of
10:13hoos around or coming into the house or
10:15what happened exactly he even his
10:17children didn't know he somebody who
10:19have lived the previous Wars the first
10:21war against Tois was in
10:231959 30 years before another one was
10:261973 and he was there he watched how
10:29killing and most of the time somebody
10:31who would say where somebody's hiding is
10:34just your child who just go and talk to
10:36their friends and say something so he
10:39knew so well and he wanted no one to
10:41know so that no one would ever give news
10:44to what is going on or if he's hiding
10:46anyone and then he had to tell us please
10:48be quiet if not they going to find you I
10:51know this kind of thing it so the
10:53children couldn't even hear you he
10:54didn't want even the children his own
10:56children to hear you CU they might end
10:57up telling another child who's going to
10:59tell someone else and before you know it
11:00there it is they come to get you he told
11:02them he lost the key of the bathroom and
11:05it was only house in the whole village
11:07that had two bathrooms in one house oh
11:09and that house was given to him as a
11:11gift when I think about it I'm like God
11:14thank you yeah what what providential
11:17care of God that the only house that had
11:19two bathrooms and people wouldn't expect
11:21the house to have two bathrooms so they
11:23weren't looking for another bathroom
11:25yeah yes that's exactly what happened
11:27because beside that they were k in
11:29public places outside like Tois who run
11:32to stadiums who went to churches many
11:35churches were destroyed in Rwanda
11:37Protestant churches Catholic churches
11:39where people run to they were destroyed
11:41and killed they weren't respected as
11:42places of Refuge were they they just
11:44went right into the churches and
11:45slaughter people burn churches down
11:48exactly and then from that killing
11:50people in public places they were
11:52searching houses so each home every hu
11:55home because they didn't trust that
11:57every H will be willing to kill so they
11:59were going through houses to search so
12:01when they came to search which was
12:04horrible the horrible time you can
12:06imagine when you know that somebody's
12:08searching for you and is right inside
12:10the house and if they find you there's
12:11no pity they can ever have on you they
12:14have all the guns and machetes it was so
12:16hard to to have them there so if it
12:19wasn't for that bathroom that they would
12:21go in one bathroom and when they sarch
12:23there they felt okay that there's no
12:25other bathroom and then in front the
12:27bathroom we were in
12:29we I remember one time I asked the
12:31pastor to push a wardrobe right in front
12:33of the door and then they never found
12:36yeah the door so he disguised it yeah
12:38didn't even see that the door was there
12:39was there now how big was the bathroom
12:42all eight of you in there for 3 months
12:44how how how big was the bathroom how
12:46tight was it for all of you in there and
12:47it was tight the bathroom was 3x 4 ft it
12:51was really small with the first day I
12:53went there I almost told him we can't
12:56fit here but I remember he told us that
12:59how many women were in there eight yeah
13:01the younger one was 7 years old so that
13:03one was always on our lap and he put the
13:05mattresses which really made it much
13:07easier he put like twin mattresses two
13:10of them in the bathroom and we had like
13:12a sink no no we didn't have any sink
13:15actually it was just like a toilet and a
13:17shower not like a tub so we were able to
13:19put them there and leaning you know to
13:22the mattresses so it was easier really
13:24to sit and then the girl was always like
13:26sitting on the top of us the 7y old so
13:29it was just like impossible in the first
13:32you know when you just look at it but
13:33then when they start to hunt for us it
13:36became even too big for us you know like
13:38you want a little hor to hide in so no
13:40one would ever see you so yeah what what
13:44actually was happening in your mind and
13:46Heart during those those 91 days like
13:50what what was it what was going on it
13:53was lifetime
13:55school I was like growing from a minute
13:58to a minute the first week many things
14:00happened in my mind and really changed
14:02completely who I was or the way I
14:04thought about life before the first time
14:07I I felt tired like the first 3 days
14:09four days I thought I couldn't take it
14:11anymore like how somebody can spend this
14:14many days in one place and I just
14:17thought that it can't be possible even
14:18to move on for another day I would die I
14:21never had any hardship in my life before
14:23that I was one daughter my brothers my
14:25parents protected me helped me to do
14:28everything I was doing and all of a
14:30sudden I'm there so the first week was
14:32different like tired and then I moved
14:34from that to be angry and I can't take
14:36it yeah how people can do this to us
14:39yeah and then I moved the place where I
14:41was accepting and decided to beg God to
14:44help me yeah even even to reach where I
14:46was begging God to help me I passed
14:48through a place where my fate was
14:50completely crushed like does God exist
14:52yeah is he here does he listen can I how
14:55could there be a god when this horrible
14:57thing is happening where is he exactly
14:59yeah and then feeling like actually like
15:02almost feeling like the devil was there
15:03like in the physical form completely
15:05telling me don't worry God doesn't exist
15:08like a little angel or so something
15:09somebody telling me just don't worry ask
15:12him ask him don't hold on to him he's
15:14only one reading in this time and then
15:17just like that I was asking him give me
15:18a sign that you are here yeah and that
15:21sign came one day when they came to
15:23search it was the first day before the
15:26first time they ever searched and the
15:28door was not covered there was no
15:30wardrobe I remember when we came to
15:32search I was so scared I remember my
15:33mouth going dry and my whole body become
15:35numb hearing them outside CU I just saw
15:38them through a little window and they
15:40were like dressed like the devils and
15:42they were trying to look like the Devils
15:43they were never hiding it they're trying
15:45to scare peopleare how horrible they
15:47were how evil they were exactly they had
15:49done like this banana leaves all around
15:51their body and sometimes they put like
15:53horns goat horns on their head and then
15:56have all kind of arms so they came to
15:59search like you know every single place
16:01in that house and and and that time I
16:03remember I said God if you exist if you
16:06exist because in my human imagination I
16:09couldn't think that there's any way they
16:11can miss that door how do they miss a
16:13door when they are 200 people in a
16:15three-bedroom house impossible in your
16:17human imagination and I wanted to come
16:19out just to give myself to them before
16:22they search they found me yeah and I
16:24remember asking God if you exist just
16:26give me a sign that you are somewhere
16:29don't let them find us today they can
16:31find us tomorrow but today yeah yeah
16:34yeah I'm begging you one more day one
16:36more day give me a sign that you are
16:38there so at least I can hope for maybe
16:40heaven cuz everything was completely
16:42gone like if my parents are not here the
16:44leaders are calling us to kill does God
16:47exist beside everything so that day
16:49remember they came right to the door of
16:51the bathroom after searching every
16:53single place on the top of the house in
16:55the ceiling under the beds they even
16:58open c thises to see if there's any baby
17:00hiding oh yeah this like 200 people in
17:02the house the last place they search was
17:05that was going to be our bathroom and
17:07then they touched the the door of the
17:09bathroom and before they open it they
17:12told the pastor you know what we trust
17:15you there's no way you can hide those
17:16snakes and then went back it was oh that
17:21was air that was a miracle was it was a
17:23miracle it was a miracle remember the
17:25pastor when he came to us later he said
17:28I don't know what you praying but
17:30whatever you do just keep doing it oh
17:32yeah he said I cannot believe that we
17:34can go back at the time we found yes and
17:38then when he said that I said the only
17:40thing they showed me it wasn't like oh
17:41we are lucky it was more like I think
17:43God listens yes God heard your prayer I
17:46think I think God is somewhere even if
17:48they have killed us at least there was
17:50hope that even Heen exist maybe yeah
17:52yeah it was more like just give me a
17:54sign that you listen and from there I
17:57tried to say you know what maybe God is
17:59only thing that is there I asked the
18:01pastor to give me the Bible I start to
18:03read like just like tell me you will
18:05tell me whatever you want I will do it
18:07even in this bathroom and I took my
18:10rosary I started to pray from morning
18:12until night just like asking God you are
18:15here give me your will tell me what you
18:16want I remember I prayed the the rosary
18:1927 times 27 times a day a day from
18:23morning until night and then to finished
18:25like around 6:00 from 6:00 in the
18:26morning until 6:00 and then I said this
18:3040 times Divine Mercy Rosy chap just to
18:34reach like 10:00 before I sleep for 3
18:36months and in the middle of that I would
18:38be reading like each around each Mystery
18:41I would go and you know go in the Bible
18:44where happened you know like if like the
18:46Gabriel came to Mary you know I will go
18:50in the Bible like how did it happen
18:51exactly it wasn't anymore like I'm just
18:53like praying it was like I want to know
18:56what do you mean we have to trust you so
18:59you mean I can trust you that you can
19:00help me out it was like I really it gave
19:04me a chance to create a relationship
19:05with God so it really it really deepened
19:07your relationship with God in a very
19:09very significant way before that you
19:11were you were a believing Catholic I but
19:14it wasn't as deep or as personal or as
19:16real or as important to you and that's
19:18how I knew how how important it is to
19:21have a personal relationship before I
19:24prayed but all of a sudden in front of
19:25hardship my fa was gone gone completely
19:28I didn't even remember why were I
19:29praying before and in my family we
19:31prayed all the time before we go to
19:33sleep we are tired about we praying but
19:36we never talked about it yeah like who
19:38is that God how do you apply him in your
19:40everyday life what what happened to your
19:43family remember your two brothers and
19:44your parents yeah through the whole
19:46thing I left them behind when I went to
19:48hide hoping that maybe them to they find
19:51a place to hide but I ended up staying
19:53in that bathroom three months from April
19:56to July and the first day I came out I
19:58rushed to find out from somebody who was
20:01outside and he told me everyone died MH
20:04yeah different places your mother and
20:07your father my mother my father my two
20:09brothers two brothers that were there my
20:10uncles my aunts my grandma my grandpa oh
20:14my goodness neighbors friends school
20:16mates it was horrible it was a time
20:19where you feel like is this real is it
20:22nightmare maybe I'm going to wake up and
20:24find my family is still sleeping yeah is
20:27it is is Am I Dreaming or is it the end
20:31of the world is it the beginning of the
20:33world you know even when I cried I felt
20:35like no it is not really but somehow and
20:38I had this is so horrible how could it
20:39be real how can it be apocalyptic almost
20:42it's just just beyond imagining like the
20:45end of the world like the final judgment
20:48EXA it was more like the Revelation I
20:49was reading when I was there then you
20:51feel like how do you continue like this
20:53you want like somebody to happen to tell
20:55you how to do about it what to do and I
20:57just said you know to run to God and
20:59pray and somehow I had so many dreams
21:02about my family and I remember one time
21:05which was completely changed so much
21:07pain I was experiencing at one time I I
21:10saw like my brother my brother my mom my
21:13dad they were like in heaven in as a
21:15dream not a vision and like read outside
21:18and then they were telling me like you
21:20are crying but you don't realize that
21:22where we are we are much better off oh
21:24oh isn't that wonderful that the Lord
21:26did that for you yeah yeah it's not
21:28wonderful and I have told this story to
21:30many survivors who told me you know what
21:32we don't have to suff anymore and who
21:34put aside the pain of like feeling what
21:36happened yeah the darkness didn't get
21:38the last word exactly and I saw them
21:41like they were standing like in a bright
21:43light happy I mean their skins have
21:45become much nicer I can see my Mommy's
21:48hair was much nicer oh yeah than before
21:51and they looking at me and my brother
21:53who was my best friend really with so
21:55much like always work together I knew
21:57every story had his friends my friends
22:00and he came in front of them and he said
22:02look where we are and the funny how
22:04really it was they were in bright light
22:07and where I was standing on Earth it was
22:09dark oh yeah and it was wet it was not
22:11nice and then the only light that
22:14lightened my way from was from them it
22:17was coming from heaven like this going
22:18down and I was standing right in a ray
22:21of light that came from heaven from them
22:24and then they told me he said look where
22:26we are we know you love us and look
22:28where you are do you really want us to
22:30come back or do you want to wait until
22:32you come back to join us and I said of
22:34course I want you to stay where you are
22:37yeah and I remember I was singing I'm
22:39like thank God thank God for the great
22:41thing you have done for my family thank
22:43God is a song in Randa we sing and I
22:45suang that night the song loud and the
22:48lady where I lived she came to wake me
22:50up she's like why are you singing you
22:52are sleeping that how real it was and
22:55then I woke up and I'm like oh you don't
22:58know what happened she's like what
22:59you're just dreaming so I went back to
23:01sleep but in the morning I I completely
23:04my tears
23:05dried yeah it was so I can remember the
23:07cloth they had when I'm like why I have
23:09to worry is that part of what allowed
23:11you also to forgive didn't didn't you
23:13end up meeting someone who killed one of
23:15your family members or that's right yeah
23:17I did I think I did meet him after that
23:20I mean the pain of feeling like why they
23:22died and the fear of how they suffered
23:24was gone the understanding of forgiving
23:27I think they came from from the when I
23:29was sitting in the bathroom cuz I was
23:31praying so much and then you know our
23:33Lord is prayer and like I said I think
23:36what helped me was so much that I wanted
23:38every prayer to be real like every word
23:40I'm saying I want to mean it when I said
23:42our father and there was something like
23:44you don't mean it do you realize that
23:46even the killers and the God is children
23:49like are they your children really you I
23:51was like fighting to make these words
23:53become real and I remember I had such a
23:56hard time saying the words forgive us us
23:58our trespasses as we forgive those who
24:00trespass against us because I wanted it
24:02to be so real MH and then time I reached
24:05them like no God I don't mean it I'm
24:07lying to you I don't want to say the
24:08words and I used to skip the words until
24:11one time I felt like the bless man is
24:13telling me look I hope you know that the
24:15words were given by our Lord as himself
24:19don't change them I ask him to help you
24:21to understand them better wow it was
24:23such an experience and you know what
24:26imaculate we're we're running out of
24:27time for this program but would you be
24:29willing to come back next week and
24:31continue the story oh I would be love to
24:33definitely really good well I want to
24:34tell everybody about mle's book it's
24:36called Left To Tell and you can get it
24:38at any bookstore you can get it at
24:39amazon.com you can get it through
24:41Renewal Ministries website and uh it it
24:44just really gives a tremendous account
24:45of of what Immaculate is sharing with us
24:48today and you know not everybody is
24:51going to live through what immac live
24:52through but there's a lot of pain in the
24:54world there's a lot of loneliness
24:56there's a lot of suffering we get
24:57letters all the time from people who
24:59watch the program and listen to the
25:01radio and there's a lot of illness out
25:04there there's a lot of Sorrow there's a
25:05lot of broken family situations there's
25:07a lot of uh Sons and Daughters who have
25:09drifted away from the faith there's a
25:11lot of people who are living on very
25:13very little money and and the tremendous
25:16lesson from what I'm actually sharing is
25:18that if God exists somehow or other it
25:21all can be made right and if we don't
25:23see it in this life we're going to see
25:25it in the next so the important thing is
25:27to Keep On Believing and keep on hoping
25:29and keep on loving keep on forgiving and
25:32keep on pointing in God's direction I've
25:34written a booklet called overcoming sin
25:37which can help us to kind of turn away
25:39from the things that hold us back and
25:40turn towards God himself and gain the
25:43freedom and gain the the increase of
25:45faith that can help us live through
25:47difficulty in this life until next week
25:50this is Ralph Martin and Peter herbeck
25:52and Immaculate wishing you the very best
25:54A a life of trust and faith in God
25:56because God is real and he will Triumph
25:59and victory and Justice and peace will
26:02come

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