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From Oslo to Delhi : Norway’s Ambassador EXCLUSIVE on Bilateral Bonds and India’s Green Future — Transcript

by Umashankar Singh Point · 7,526 words · 1,285 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:07[music]
0:07>> So, I want to ask you about your yoga
0:10session which you had. So, how was it?
0:12>> It was a very calm and nice meditative
0:16yoga session with a lot of breathing.
0:18>> How much Hindi you have learned till
0:20now?
0:20>> I am a thodi Hindi bolti hu.
0:24>> We are going to do this.
0:27>> Interview Hindi mein
0:30sikhna hai.
0:31>> Prime Minister Modi's a visit to Norway
0:34and it was first visit in 43 years by
0:37any Indian Prime Minister. So, do you
0:38think that it's a
0:41milestone?
0:41>> It was reinforcing
0:44the the very good relationship that we
0:46have between Norway [music] and India
0:49already.
0:49>> You are very much satisfied with the
0:51progress of the relationship.
0:52>> I am very happy with how this is going.
0:55I'm very happy with how this has
0:57developed in the years I've been here.
1:00>> As a diplomat, you have
1:02worked in different countries. [music]
1:04How you will recall your India tenure if
1:07you will write a book?
1:08>> We don't have the same traditions with
1:10the
1:11diplomats writing books as you have here
1:13in India, but I will keep with me
1:15impressions [music]
1:16from India for the rest of my life.
1:19India is just such a vast country. I
1:21keep on [music] learning new things.
1:23>> Two wars are going on. One is
1:26Russia-Ukraine war and another is West
1:28Asia war. How do you see those
1:30developments which is taking place in
1:32Switzerland and how hopeful you are that
1:34it is going to
1:36work out?
1:37>> The world situation is quite serious and
1:40quite volatile, unstable. All the
1:44efforts that are trying to calm down the
1:48situation in the Middle East, that's
1:49good. It's good that it's happening.
1:51It's good that the parties are trying to
1:54come together.
1:55>> If you talk about the Ukraine Russia
1:57war, US president said once he will come
2:00to the power, he will stop the war
2:02within 24 hours time and [music] war is
2:04still going on. What do you think that
2:07how it is going to end?
2:08>> Well, I cannot comment on the particular
2:11comments of another [music]
2:12president. When Russia
2:14is they were blatantly
2:17breaking international law when they
2:20were invading
2:22Ukraine in 2022 and they are the
2:25aggressor here.
2:27So for us it's very important to support
2:29Ukraine
2:31in the efforts that that they are making
2:34and we have not seen from Russia any
2:37serious willingness to try and stop the
2:41aggression from from [music] their side.
2:43>> One positive thing
2:45which surprised you about India.
2:47>> You know, the vastness of India
2:50and the diversity of India.
2:52>> If I ask about the Delhi traffic.
2:55>> Well, it's it's I'm getting used to it.
2:56I am afraid that I will be a bit too
2:58rough in the traffic when I come back to
3:00Norway also. You get used to you get
3:02used to it.
3:04I still have not got used to the fact
3:07that even though there is a zebra
3:09crossing,
3:09>> [music]
3:10>> the cars do not stop.
3:11>> What you have to offer for Indian
3:13students [music] if one wants to go
3:16there and study for the higher
3:18education?
3:18>> You know, sitting here in the heat of
3:22June in Delhi, I would say that we have
3:24colder climate to offer.
3:26>> [snorts]
3:28>> Oh, but at our Norway could be sun
3:30burned or be actually done you one.
3:34>> [music]
3:42[music]
3:49>> Namaskar point of swag
3:52at
3:52>> Mhm.
4:25Mhm.
5:56>> Very welcome to you, Excellency, to
5:58giving us the time and
6:00we'll start our conversation with a very
6:03informal, you know, chit-chat. So, I
6:07want to ask you about your yoga session
6:10which you had. So, how was it?
6:12>> Well, yesterday was
6:14World Yoga Day on the on 21st June and I
6:18attended the yoga session in Nehru Park
6:22organized by the Ministry of External
6:24Affairs and led by Minister of External
6:27Affairs, Dr. Jaishankar.
6:29It was a very calm and nice meditative
6:33yoga session with a lot of breathing.
6:35So, I learned a lot about that.
6:37>> So, you do it regularly or it was just
6:39for the this occasion?
6:41>> For me, yoga has been something that I
6:45have been doing quite a lot since I came
6:47to to India.
6:49>> Mhm.
6:49>> I'm
6:50I'm really enjoying it. I love yoga
6:54and it's a good way for me also to to,
6:58you know, train my body and set new
7:00goals.
7:00>> Okay.
7:01>> So, I'm doing doing quite a lot.
7:04>> So, you are more relaxed after, you
7:06know, starting doing yoga.
7:09>> Oh, yes. I start
7:10sometimes with yoga in the morning.
7:13Those days are much better because I
7:15have a different attitude to to life
7:18after a yoga session.
7:19>> So, today you have done yoga or not
7:21because I have a bunch of questions and
7:23I want to ask you. So, hope you are
7:26relaxed.
7:27>> I am relaxed, but this morning, it's
7:29Monday morning, I don't start with yoga.
7:32>> Okay. So,
7:34one one question I wanted to ask you,
7:36how much Hindi you have learned till now
7:38because you are here in India for last 3
7:40years.
7:40>> Mhm.
7:41I'm a Tory Hindi
7:44>> Okay, I don't interview Hindi make me
7:46are you okay with it?
7:48>> I'm going to do this interview totally
7:49Hindi
7:51>> What do you mean Hindi
7:53>> Interview Hindi may
7:56take my head.
7:58>> Interview Hindi may take my head because
8:00I'm
8:01We'll start with the first question and
8:03obviously that question is related to
8:05Prime Minister Modi's a visit to Norway
8:07and it was first visit in 43 years by
8:10any Indian Prime Minister. So do you
8:12think that it's a
8:14milestone, a turning point between India
8:17and Norway relationship?
8:18>> Well, as you are saying it was the first
8:21visit by an Indian Prime Minister to
8:23Norway for 43 years and it was Prime
8:25Minister Modi's first visit to Norway.
8:28So it was a very important visit.
8:31It was reinforcing
8:34the the very good relationship that we
8:36have between Norway and India already
8:39and we signed a lot of MOUs.
8:44We have a new green strategic
8:46partnership. So it has for sure been
8:50reinforced
8:52and it has laid a very good ground for
8:57for stronger even relations now to come
9:01in the in the next years.
9:03>> We will go deeper in this
9:06conversation.
9:07But my curiosity is that
9:10as an ambassador you are here for 3
9:12years. So how you prepared, how you work
9:15for this visit to let it happen?
9:18>> Well, the visit of Prime Minister Modi
9:21was was
9:23was also because we had the Nordic India
9:26Summit in
9:28in in in Oslo this this year. So we also
9:32had in addition to the bilateral visit,
9:34we had them uh India Nordic Summit with
9:38all the five Nordic Prime Ministers
9:42meeting
9:43the Indian Prime Minister. This is a
9:46format that is now happening for the
9:48third time. This is the only format that
9:51Nordic Ministers Prime Ministers are
9:54meeting another Prime Minister like like
9:57that. And the last Nordic India
10:02meeting was in Copenhagen 4 years ago.
10:05>> Yes.
10:05>> Our Prime Minister suggested them to
10:07have the next one in Oslo. And I have
10:10been in India for just under 3 years
10:13now, meaning that ever since I came to
10:16India, I've been preparing for this this
10:19this visit. And we have been building up
10:22all the relations and we have been
10:24preparing for the MOUs to be signed.
10:27And there there there has been a lot of
10:29preparations going into this. And that's
10:31what I can assure you.
10:32>> Yeah, that's why I asked this question
10:34because it's like an achievement for you
10:36as an ambassador.
10:38>> This is a big achievement for me
10:41personally as as ambassadors as
10:44ambassador, but of course for the very
10:47good team that I've had here at the
10:49embassy also for the embassy.
10:52It's and for all of us here being
10:56here when we have this visit happening
10:58since it's 43 years since last time. It
11:02it's something that we are very happy
11:04about.
11:05>> I know due to
11:06protocol issue you cannot disclose many
11:09things which went behind the curtains,
11:12but if you can throw some light what was
11:14the challenges and how you cope up with
11:17those challenges to make this visit
11:19happy.
11:20>> Well, I am I would not say there were
11:23big challenges preparing for this visit.
11:27It was supposed to happen a year ago
11:29as is quite widely known.
11:32But then in May last year uh also
11:36operation Sindoor happened and the
11:38horrible terror attack in Nepal gun in
11:41in April and therefore the meeting was
11:44postponed.
11:45Of course, we had then prepared already
11:48a lot
11:49and
11:50and we would have wanted it to happen
11:53last year.
11:54Then we we got another year of
11:58of preparations and of
12:00work.
12:02Some things we then managed to do even
12:05better
12:06and we managed to have more MOUs and
12:10I think in that sense it was a challenge
12:13that it was postponed, but it was also a
12:16good thing because we got to have the
12:18visit I think in the even better way. We
12:21conducted it very very well.
12:23>> So it turned to be later and better.
12:27>> This is this is my view, yes.
12:29>> Okay. As you mentioned that many MOUs
12:31got uh signed and I what I got to know
12:33that 12 agreements MOUs got signed and
12:38India Norway green strategic
12:40partnership. That was the flagship or
12:43the big ticket collaboration between the
12:45two countries. So can you throw some
12:48light on that how it is going to help
12:50India to get a greener energy?
12:52>> Mhm.
12:53Uh well, it was actually 30 MOUs signed
12:57in in Oslo. Three of them uh were
13:00government-to-government.
13:02We have an MOU on
13:05on on a on a health partnership between
13:08India and Norway now. We also have an
13:10MOU about
13:13digital public infrastructure and
13:15digital public goods. It's about how
13:18Norway and India can work to help other
13:20countries get as good DPI and DPG as you
13:24have in India. And then we also have a
13:27third MOU on space cooperation.
13:30>> Mhm.
13:31>> In addition, there were then
13:33many
13:34business-to-business
13:36MOUs.
13:37And those, together with a green
13:40strategic partnership, I think to they
13:44they they constitute
13:47a much better basis for the work that we
13:50will do with Norway and India in in the
13:53months and in the years to come. Um the
13:57green strategic partnership is a very
14:00important one because between Norway and
14:03India, what we work on
14:06are
14:07mostly connected to green
14:11the green space. It's on green energy,
14:14green maritime cooperation, circular
14:17economy, and we also work
14:20work a lot together
14:22on how to combat climate change. Uh so
14:26these are
14:27are the issues that
14:29have been important between Norway and
14:31India. These are the issues that will
14:33remain important between Norway and
14:36India, and it will be more and more
14:39important in in the years to come. We
14:41have in Norway great admiration for the
14:45for the um
14:47for the ambitions of India when it comes
14:49to green energy, when it comes to the
14:51building up of solar and wind energy.
14:54Uh and we very much want to support
14:57those
14:58those
15:00ambitions.
15:02It's already being done with Norwegian
15:04companies
15:06who have good technologies in those
15:08areas coming to India, but it can be
15:11more, and it will be more.
15:13>> So,
15:14would you like to put it in a manner
15:16that it may become a role
15:21model
15:22for you know partnership between India
15:24and Norway as a global role model.
15:27>> Who says that?
15:29>> Well, the cooperation level in green
15:32energy sector can be a role model for
15:34for the
15:36cooperation between the two countries.
15:38>> Well, in Norway, you know, we found oil
15:40and gas in the early 70s.
15:43We are now ourselves transitioning into
15:47green energy and also transitioning into
15:51to cleaner energy generally. For
15:54example, by by carbon capture and
15:57storage
15:59and and also in
16:01in other ways. So, we have some
16:04particular expertise in the energy field
16:07because of our
16:08our history in the last 50 to 60 years.
16:12And these technologies are very useful
16:15for
16:16for India and India when you are looking
16:19also at
16:20how to build up your green energy. And I
16:24think in that space we have some
16:25technologies very particular
16:28and India has a scale and a pool of
16:32talents that is very unique. So,
16:34together this is quite unique and
16:37together this is I think also something
16:40that will be an example.
16:42And other example is in the maritime
16:44area.
16:46Norway has the second biggest coastline
16:48in the world.
16:50So, it's even slightly bigger than
16:53India's coastline. We are both very
16:56important maritime nations
16:59Norway has because of our long coastline
17:02and our history
17:04also been a big maritime nation for many
17:07for for long long time. We also in that
17:10space have technologies
17:15and and
17:17other cooperation that is useful to
17:19India and that India has now also with
17:22big ambitions in in shipping
17:26are looking to so also there because
17:29India's talent India's
17:32India's
17:33vastness
17:35is something that um
17:38Norwegian ship owners Norwegian
17:42Norwegian businesses in the maritime
17:44space are very interested in and they're
17:46looking to scale up. This is also quite
17:49unique and something that can be a good
17:51example.
17:52>> Okay. And if you talk about the India
17:55EFTA TPA agreement which implemented
17:59last year October and Prime Minister
18:01Modi visit set a goal of almost
18:04100 billion investment and 1 million job
18:08from EFTA. So my question is that what
18:11kind of steps Norway is taking to
18:14fulfill this goal?
18:16>> Well,
18:17these days when we are talking about
18:21entry into force of the UK India FTA and
18:26when we are also talking about the EU
18:30free trade agreement being signed and
18:32implemented next year.
18:34I am quite proud to say that Norway
18:38as an EFTA member is part of the Euro
18:41European group that signed and trade
18:44agreement with India first already in
18:472025 2024 and that this agreement
18:51entered into force last year in on 1st
18:54October.
18:56So so we are already working hard to
19:00implement this this agreement. It is
19:03taking some time
19:04obviously we see a lot of interest from
19:07Norwegian companies
19:09and they are looking at different
19:11possibilities.
19:13And
19:14when it comes to the
19:16investment chapter of the trade and
19:19economic partnership agreement between
19:21EFTA and India, you are right. There is
19:24a commitment commitment there to promote
19:27investments. For government, of course,
19:29we can only promote investments. These
19:32will be investments from
19:34private
19:35companies.
19:36>> be B2B, B2B.
19:38>> B2B
19:39and foreign direct investments. So, we
19:42can only encourage. But we do that.
19:45For example, in April, I was on a trip
19:48together with our trade representative
19:50Innovation Norway
19:52>> Mhm.
19:53>> to Telangana and Andhra. And we looked
19:55at possibilities there for Norwegian
19:57companies. We see it's a very thriving
20:00thriving environment there in those two
20:03states, in Hyderabad.
20:05Opportunities are growing by the day.
20:07And also in Andhra by the coast there,
20:10there are a lot of opportunities for
20:11Norwegian maritime industries.
20:14So, what we are doing then as a next
20:15step is to tell about these
20:18opportunities for to the Norwegian
20:20companies. And we're also looking at
20:22taking a business delegation to those
20:25those states. The just stands as an
20:27example as how we are working with this
20:30investment investment commitment.
20:33>> Okay.
20:34>> So, we have already a lot of
20:39Norwegian companies who have invested in
20:41India. I can mention for example the
20:43fertilizer company Yara.
20:46They have a
20:47big factory in Babrala in Uttar Pradesh.
20:51They are there
20:54producing fertilizers
20:57and also fertilizers for for Indian that
21:00are better for the Indian soil
21:03and for Indian farmers that will also
21:05better than Indian farming. It's a good
21:08example of an investment
21:11and we have several of of those already
21:14and before the treaty
21:16was was signed. But now also we have a
21:19lot of interest coming from from from
21:22Norway to look at the new
21:24possibilities for investments.
21:26>> And why I ask this question because as a
21:28journalist I have seen many countries
21:31making many promises and when it comes
21:33to implementation
21:35you know. So I thought ask
21:38thought to ask you this question. So I
21:41also want to touch upon the fact that
21:43Prime Minister Modi's visit gave a very
21:46good boost to India-Nordic relation.
21:49So
21:52how
21:53you would like to
21:55know
21:56characterize it that
21:58how it gave a great boost and what we
22:02are going to achieve from that.
22:04>> May I first comment one more thing on
22:06the investment because you are saying
22:08that
22:10that you know
22:12people are coming here making promises,
22:14countries are coming here making
22:15promises. But there is one thing that is
22:17quite special about the trade and
22:19economic partnership agreement between
22:21India and EFTA. There is a commitment to
22:23promote investments from the EFTA
22:25countries but
22:27but also India has helped in
22:30establishing a
22:31an office for the EFTA countries
22:34in investment in in invest India that
22:37are helping EFTA
22:40EFTA companies who coming in having
22:42problems trying to make it easier for
22:45them also to invest. That is why I
22:47believe that you know this will not only
22:49be promises.
22:50>> mechanism will help getting investment
22:53here in India and
22:54vis-a-vis
22:55>> And then
22:56>> any hurdle if if the investors feel they
22:58can go to that mechanism and sort it
23:00out.
23:01>> Yes, you know there there are hurdles
23:03coming into India They having trying to
23:05invest. It's a complicated environment
23:08here. It's 28 states
23:11and with different
23:13with different ecosystems.
23:15But this office at Invest India is here
23:18to help those companies who are who are
23:22meeting problems and I have have already
23:25helped some of them.
23:26>> So seems you are very much satisfied
23:28with the progress
23:30in the relationship of India and Norway.
23:32>> Mhm.
23:34>> You are very much satisfied with the
23:35progress of the relationship.
23:37>> I am very happy with how this is going.
23:39I'm very happy with how this has
23:42developed in the years I've been here
23:44and when it when I have
23:47have
23:48followed it very closely
23:50and I'm also very hopeful that it will
23:53it will um
23:55uh develop even further. For example,
23:57you know, we have 160 Norwegian
24:00companies present and working here in in
24:03India today.
24:05This is this has doubled in the last 10
24:07years. Trade between our two countries
24:10is still quite small, but it has doubled
24:12the last 10 years. So I really think
24:15with this treaty in the next 10 years it
24:18will more than double.
24:20>> So as an uh
24:22as a diplomat you have uh
24:24worked in different countries
24:26uh you headed different organizations uh
24:30of Norway. I would like to ask one
24:32question. How you will recall your India
24:35tenure as an ambassador when and if you
24:39will write a book?
24:41>> Uh in Norway we don't have the same
24:43traditions with
24:45diplomats writing books as you have here
24:47in India.
24:49So I'm not sure whether I will write a
24:51book, but I will keep with me
24:52impressions from India uh, the rest of
24:55my life. And, uh, these impressions are
24:58very, uh, are very strong.
25:01Uh, India is just such a vast country. I
25:03keep on learning new things all the
25:06time, every day, everywhere I travel.
25:09There is something, there is something
25:11new, and it's a very vibrant, uh,
25:14environment in, in India. Uh, people,
25:17and the young people are very
25:19competitive, competitive in a positive
25:21way. Uh,
25:23make them ask questions, look for new
25:25opportunities, and I think this will,
25:28uh, really take India even more forward
25:30in the years to, years to come. And for
25:33me, I will really, you know, uh, I have,
25:36uh, I'm already,
25:38uh, reading a lot of books about India
25:40and from India. I will continue doing
25:42that, I think, for the rest of my life,
25:44because there is, there, there is so
25:46many, and there are so many
25:47opportunities.
25:49>> You have also traveled a lot.
25:51How many states you have visited, if you
25:52have counted it?
25:54>> I have counted, uh, and I have now
25:57visited 19 states.
25:59>> 19 out of 28?
26:01>> 19 out of 28, yeah.
26:03And two of the union territories.
26:05>> And rest you will cover, I think, when,
26:07till the time you are here, you will try
26:09to cover more and more states.
26:11>> Well, I've been [snorts] in India for
26:12almost 3 years now, uh, and I have just
26:16over 1 year left on my tenure. And my
26:19ambition is definitely to cover even
26:21more of, uh, of this vast country.
26:24>> Best of luck to you for that. And if you
26:26move towards the global, uh, situation,
26:30and as we see that
26:32two wars are going on. One is
26:34Russia-Ukraine war, and another is West
26:36Asia war.
26:38Recently, there are some development, so
26:41how do you see those developments which
26:43is taking place in Switzerland, and how
26:45hopeful you are that it is going to
26:48work out?
26:49>> Mhm.
26:50Well, um, from Norway's, uh, point of
26:53uh,
26:54uh, we really think that the world
26:57situation is quite serious and quite
27:00volatile, unstable,
27:03as it is as it is now. We are very much
27:06looking with positive eyes at all
27:12the efforts that are trying to calm down
27:16the situation in the Middle East and all
27:19efforts to get the parties to speak
27:22>> [snorts]
27:22>> with each other.
27:24So, in that light, efforts and what is
27:27taking place in Geneva right now as as
27:30we speak, they that's good. It's good
27:33that it's happening. It's good that the
27:35parties are
27:36trying to come together. Good that
27:39someone is trying to bring them together
27:42and we will support those kind of
27:43efforts as much as we can.
27:46And we will do that, of course, also in
27:49in in in the future. We believe very
27:51much in in
27:53rules-based world order, rules-based
27:56world trade.
27:58With the closing of the Hormuz Strait
28:01and with the with the the different wars
28:04going on,
28:06this is challenged and this is also what
28:08we need to to to work on.
28:11>> And if you talk about the Ukraine-Russia
28:13war,
28:14uh,
28:15US president said that
28:19when he will come to the power, he will
28:22stop the war within 24 hours time, but
28:24it's more than 1 year now
28:26and war is still going on. So, what do
28:29you think what is lacking at the part of
28:33America as a mediator and for that
28:35matter as the party Ukraine and Russia.
28:40So,
28:41what do you think that how it is going
28:43to end and how Norway can play a role if
28:47at all.
28:47>> Mhm.
28:48Well, I cannot comment on the particular
28:52comments of
28:55President and from a close ally of
28:58Norway. But what I can say is that we
29:01support the ambition.
29:03We support the ambition of
29:06trying to get the parties together
29:09and
29:11and trying to get also Russia and
29:13Ukraine to to
29:15to
29:16get a solution to the war going on
29:18there. But that being said, from
29:21Norway's point of view,
29:23Russia is a neighbor of Norway as well.
29:27For us,
29:29it's when when Russia
29:32is they were blatantly
29:35breaking international law when they
29:37were invading Ukraine in 2022 and they
29:42are the aggressor here.
29:44So for us it's very important to support
29:47Ukraine
29:48in the efforts that that they are making
29:51and also to to listen to them in what
29:55they are saying
29:57in terms of what is important for them
29:59to solve this situation as we are in
30:02now. And we have not seen from Russia
30:04any serious willingness to try and stop
30:09the aggression from from their side. But
30:12of course, we are
30:15always willing to try look at different
30:17solutions and if if powerful countries
30:21like the United States are doing that,
30:24that is commendable and we will support
30:27that too.
30:28So Norway is doing quite a lot to
30:31support Ukraine in this situation and
30:34also in terms of supporting them
30:37to
30:38to solutions to questions that they
30:41would like to solve.
30:42>> So, a lot of resentment we notice uh
30:45when we talk about the India buying
30:47Russian oil.
30:49And especially the European countries,
30:51they are very much against it. What's
30:53your take on that? Should India stop
30:55buying Russian oil? Whether uh
30:58it doesn't matter whether America is
31:00giving a waiver or not. So, fully uh
31:03India should fully stop the Russian oil?
31:07Importing Russian oil?
31:08>> Well, let me pick up on the questions
31:10that you asked a little earlier on the
31:13Nordic India Summit.
31:15Uh
31:16and at that summit, the six prime
31:18ministers sat together and they
31:21discussed these issues quite thoroughly.
31:23>> Mhm.
31:24>> Um the it is a values-based partnership
31:27also between India and the Nordic
31:30countries. We are all democracies.
31:33Uh we are we we all want to adhere to
31:37rules-based world order, and we support
31:40support the multilateral system as it
31:43is. Um so, in in
31:46in this perspective, also the issues of
31:51um
31:52how to work on and with Russia, how to
31:56work on and with the
31:59the
32:00the Russian aggression towards Ukraine,
32:02they were discussed.
32:04Uh and
32:05and uh
32:07solutions were not made were might not
32:10have been found to all
32:12all the issues, but they were discussed
32:14and there is there is um
32:17debate around these issues also on India
32:21buying Russian Russian oil. Uh and from
32:25Norwegian side,
32:26it's um
32:28uh it's important for us to say that you
32:30know, we need to adhere to international
32:32law. Other sanctions, they should be
32:35adhered to. That's the only way they can
32:37be effective. Uh but uh if there are
32:40not, we just need to discuss, you know,
32:43how to conduct this in the best possible
32:45possible possible way. And this was
32:48discussed between our prime ministers.
32:51>> One question from
32:54this point of view that you have
32:56almost uh more than three decades
32:59experience in diplomacy.
33:01>> Mhm.
33:01>> A lot of countries, they talk about
33:03peace, but that is not giving any
33:06result. So, do you think that global
33:09diplomacy has lost its influence?
33:14>> Uh no, I don't think so. I don't think
33:16it has lost its influence. Um
33:20and in some processes,
33:23we might not There might not be
33:25long-term diplomats as me having the
33:28most influence.
33:30But for sure, I can say that in the
33:32world we're living at in today, it's
33:35more complex. Uh and
33:38it's it takes more to understand what
33:41will be the right solutions. So, I
33:44definitely think that diplomacy is ever
33:48more relevant. Uh more relevant than
33:51ever.
33:52And in that context also, diplomats will
33:55be as
33:57as influential and and and as relevant
34:02as we have been if not more.
34:05>> Norway as a country, it has played many
34:08important role we from childhood person
34:11like me heard about Norway playing role
34:14when it comes to Sri Lankan crisis or
34:17whatever.
34:18So, how Norway is playing now its role
34:22and how Norway is protecting its
34:25interest
34:26between the major power?
34:30>> Well,
34:31I I am uh
34:34after these three years in India. I have
34:36become to be
34:38an admirer of the Indian foreign
34:42policy which is to align with many
34:45countries and which is which is well
34:49multi-alignment or strategic autonomy as
34:52it is also called and it leads to India
34:56wanting to have relations with a lot of
35:00different countries and also those
35:02countries who do not agree.
35:05I think
35:07also in Norway, we are a small country.
35:10We are aligned with with as a founding
35:14member of NATO. We are aligned aligned
35:17with Europe and and the North North
35:19America, but we still also try to speak
35:22to everyone. We try to keep open
35:26channels
35:28and that I think is a reason why
35:32we have been used as a mediator in
35:34several conflicts
35:36between other countries because we try
35:38and have an open line to all countries
35:42in different ways,
35:44but we also believe in in that and that
35:47has been
35:49a basis for the work that we have done
35:52in
35:53in peace diplomacy
35:56and
35:57it has also been a reason for several
36:00countries
36:02that are in conflict to ask us to be a
36:06mediator.
36:06>> As you mentioned about uh India's
36:09foreign policy and you appreciated that
36:11Indian foreign policy is doing good. So,
36:13one question came in your mind that
36:15do you think that India and Norway can
36:17do something good better
36:20in present time and if
36:24that can be done, how it is possible?
36:27>> Well, India is much bigger country than
36:29Norway.
36:31India is now the most populous country
36:34in the world.
36:36Norway has a small population.
36:39And India is
36:41aspiring to be a great
36:43power and it has really been working.
36:47It
36:48is really looking like one of the great
36:51powers in the multipolar world right now
36:53also. And Norway in that context is a
36:57smaller country.
36:59We are however
37:02an active country in a lot of areas.
37:06We are
37:08relatively big economy compared to the
37:10population and
37:13and we are also I would say sometimes
37:16punching above our weight. And in this
37:19context I really think that Norway and
37:21India can work quite a lot together. We
37:24can work together to reinforce the
37:27multilateral system,
37:30to together
37:33support the the
37:35rules based world order, rules based
37:37world trade. These were also issues
37:41discussed between the Nordic Prime
37:43Minister and Indian Prime Minister at at
37:46the summit in in Oslo. And if we stand
37:49together
37:51in these issues I really think that we
37:54can we can do something and we can try
37:57and preserve
37:59the good worlds based world order that
38:02we have seen
38:04in after the Second World War.
38:06>> That's why I ask you because it's not
38:08about the size of the country or the
38:10population of the country. It's about
38:12the
38:13meeting the mind because you people have
38:15a lot of experience when it comes to
38:17world diplomacy
38:19as I mentioned that I have seen I have
38:21read about Norway playing vital role in
38:23different crisis. So, Norway's
38:26diplomacy, diplomatic experience, and
38:28India's capability to do the same. And
38:33if both can
38:36get together and do something good for
38:38the world, that's why that was the
38:40context of my question. So, moving ahead
38:43uh
38:44uh now uh I'm going in a
38:48uh
38:49in a session in which I will be asking
38:51more questions with a personal touch.
38:54So, so you have spent almost 3 years,
38:56and we have talked about that also. So,
38:59what
39:00one positive thing
39:02which surprised you about India?
39:05>> Well, um
39:07I would not say it surprised me, but I
39:09it it came, you know, the vastness of
39:12India
39:13and the diversity of India.
39:16It did not surprise me, but it it it's
39:18really something that I'm thinking about
39:20more and more and more, and uh and I'm
39:24realizing more and more the diversity
39:27and how that is a strength for India.
39:30>> India has a huge youth population.
39:34And when we talk about the solutions,
39:37because India is still progressing, and
39:40we need a lot of job opportunities, a
39:41lot of opportunities in different areas.
39:44And the kind of uncertainty, you know,
39:46prevailing
39:48at present. So, what do you suggest that
39:51how
39:52one youth should prepare him or herself
39:56to cope up with this kind of situation
39:59and get opportunities either in India or
40:02or or outside India, country like
40:04Norway. How Norway is
40:06willing to, you know, uh
40:09adopt Indians
40:11for their own, you know,
40:13betterment, or how Indian can contribute
40:15in the growth of Norway.
40:18>> So, um
40:19uh
40:20there there are, as you are saying, a
40:22lot of young
40:23people here in here in India. So, it's a
40:25big part of your population is a is a
40:28young population. We also see a quite a
40:32quite a lot and more and more young
40:34Indians in Norway. They are coming as
40:38engineers to work in the IT industry in
40:41Norway. They're also coming to work in
40:44the service industry. Very well
40:47qualified young people and young Indians
40:49coming to Norway. They definitely are
40:52contributing also to to Norway's
40:55economy. We will welcome that also now
40:58in in in the future. What what will
41:03what will if you want to go to Norway as
41:05a young Indian, my advice then is to be
41:08quite specialized because we need that
41:10specialization that that uh
41:14the for example, the engineers can can
41:17can provide. We don't have such a big
41:20young population, so we don't don't
41:24need
41:25we don't have have that and that's why
41:27they are coming. So, but more on the
41:29general basis, I think
41:33you know the young uh Indians,
41:36they are very competitive. They are also
41:40working hard to achieve something. My
41:42advice is to continue doing that.
41:45>> Mhm.
41:45>> I am a great admirer of it. Continue to
41:48know put yourself on on the stage
41:51and take those opportunities that that
41:53come to you.
41:55>> And I I would also like to know briefly
41:56that what you have to offer for Indian
41:59students. If one wants to go there and
42:03study for the higher education, what you
42:05have to offer? Because it's a very big,
42:07you know, uh
42:08I would not say business, but it's a
42:10very big area for the cooperation
42:12because a lot of countries they are
42:13looking for Indian students footfall in
42:16their country and they are offering many
42:18things like I would not like to name any
42:20particular country, but I would ask you
42:23what you have to what you have to offer
42:25to to Indian students.
42:27>> You know sitting here in the heat of
42:31June in Delhi, I would say that we have
42:33colder climate to offer.
42:35>> Yes, [laughter] that's for every Indian,
42:37you know, not just for the students.
42:38>> it a little colder, you can come to
42:40Norway.
42:41>> Mhm.
42:41>> So but but of course joking a little bit
42:46bit aside, we have a
42:49quite big research and education
42:53cooperation with India. We have 68
42:56agreements now with researchers in
42:58Norway and India working together in
43:00different fields.
43:02>> Mhm.
43:02>> This means that you know when
43:05if you specialize in an area, there is
43:08big opportunity to work together and to
43:11work together
43:12in with with India India Norway. So for
43:15example, if you want to go to Norway and
43:18and study, you can tap into one of these
43:20projects
43:22and be part of
43:24the Norway India journey.
43:27We have had we had um
43:29an education delegation here last
43:33month or maybe in April. They
43:36participated also at some of the fairs.
43:38They were at the universities here in
43:40India also trying to get some
43:43more Indian students to to Norway. So
43:46the there are opportunities there.
43:47>> And you are also helping with the
43:48startups. If I not I am not wrong.
43:52>> We We have
43:54We have a provisions for helping with
43:56startups in Norway, yes. And also in the
44:00Norway India research cooperation,
44:03there are
44:04several of these projects that are
44:08researching on on issues that would be
44:10very interesting for a startups to look
44:12at.
44:13>> And you just talked about the as you
44:15talked about the the climate of Norway.
44:17So, Norway Norway means Nordic lights.
44:21And every Indian whoever wants to go
44:23there, they have one ambition that we'll
44:26go and we'll see the Nordic light. Apart
44:28from that, what Norway
44:31has to offer to tourists from India and
44:34so that you can also have more
44:35footfalls. I know that Norway believes
44:37in quality tourism, not the quantity
44:39tourism, but what more you can you know
44:43describe what more you know
44:46hidden gem kind of thing that you can
44:49throw some light that if one Indian goes
44:52to Norway, what he or she
44:55can
44:56have a look very close look on those
44:59those areas or or or the those tourist
45:01places.
45:02>> Well, Indians want to come to Norway to
45:04see the northern lights. Uh
45:07if they want to see the northern lights,
45:09they have to come
45:10at a very cold period when it's also
45:13dark and you have to go north of the
45:15Arctic Circle. And you're not guaranteed
45:18because this is these are light
45:20movements on the sky that that are not
45:24always always there. But of course,
45:26Indians are welcome to do that. But also
45:29Norway has a beautiful nature to offer.
45:32We have also nice cities not as big as
45:36those in India, but nice cities of Oslo,
45:40Bergen, Trondheim,
45:42which are nice and good to visit. We
45:45also have a history not as vast as
45:48one the one in India, but also
45:50interesting to to to
45:53discover. And I would also say if you
45:56come in the summer, it's not as cold and
46:00you can see the not the northern lights,
46:04but you can see the midnight sun. This
46:06is also very beautiful. And even if
46:09you're not north of the Arctic Circle,
46:11and you don't see the midnight sun,
46:14you have very long days and very nice
46:16light in Norway during during summer.
46:20So, I would recommend
46:22to come to Norway as a tourist, but
46:24already a lot of Indian tourists are
46:26coming to Norway.
46:28We see a lot
46:28>> And you are satisfied with that. You
46:30don't need more footfall.
46:31>> You know, we see a little more
46:32cautiousness now
46:34with the with the war in the war in the
46:37Middle East. So, the number of tourists
46:40this year has fallen.
46:42We would like it to be
46:44as it has been the last years. So, we
46:47would like more Indian tourists to come
46:49to Norway than are currently coming.
46:52>> So, you are describing every good aspect
46:55of
46:57Norway's climate, fresh air, everything.
47:00So,
47:02when as a an ambassador you got posted
47:05here, you certainly you miss those
47:09climate and that kind of fresh air. So,
47:11how you coped up
47:13cope up with the situation here in Delhi
47:16as far as pollution is concerned?
47:18>> Mhm.
47:19Well,
47:20it's it's at at at these at these times
47:25now, we are I'm not so bothered with the
47:27pollution. It's more the heat.
47:29>> Yes.
47:30And that also bothers you, right?
47:31>> [laughter]
47:32>> It does not bother me so much. The the
47:34most the big biggest problem is that
47:36when I can come back to Norway now, I'm
47:38I really feel cold because it's
47:40it's I'm I'm getting used to the heat
47:43here in here in here in Delhi.
47:45But, you know, being also from from a
47:48cold climate,
47:50we are quite used to being inside.
47:53And and that is one way that I am coping
47:56with the with the the pollution here in
47:59Delhi is that we
48:01have air purifiers and and the air
48:04inside is is quite good.
48:07Also, I'm monitoring
48:10the the air quality and I'm trying to
48:13get out and go to the park for a walk or
48:15run when the air is good enough to do
48:18that and I find that those opportunities
48:21are also quite a lot even during winter
48:24when there is a lot of pollution. Of
48:27course, if you have to go out with a
48:30high AQI level,
48:33you may the sometimes I also have to
48:36wear wear a mask.
48:38>> So, I have last two three questions,
48:39small questions.
48:41I have noticed that
48:43as an ambassador you
48:46organize a lot of, you know, cultural
48:48activity very much here in the premise
48:50of your residence. What forces you to do
48:53that? I'm using word forces because, you
48:55know, it cannot be done without having
48:59that kind of zeal or that kind of, you
49:01know,
49:02commitment that we have to do some
49:04certain things for the people of
49:05people-to-people contact. So, what makes
49:08you
49:09very much proactive on that front?
49:12>> Well, nobody forces me to to do those
49:16cultural cultural events, but you know,
49:19what drives me to do that is a strong
49:24>> [laughter]
49:24>> So, that's a strong a strong feeling
49:27that people-to-people
49:30connections are important. If we don't
49:32have strong people-to-people connections
49:34between Norway and India, we will not
49:37have a strong relationship between our
49:38two countries. It's about cultural
49:41culture, it's about the book, it's about
49:43the art,
49:45and it's it's about the music, and it's
49:48about how we come together. So, that is
49:50what drives me to to also uh do a lot of
49:54cultural events here at the embassy.
49:56>> If I ask about the Delhi traffic, what
49:59would your reaction on that?
50:02>> Well, it's it's I'm getting used to it.
50:04It was it seems quite chaotic.
50:06>> years so you have
50:08got used to it or or still you need to
50:11get used to it.
50:12>> I am afraid that I will be a bit too
50:14rough in the traffic when I come back to
50:15Norway. Also, you get used to you get
50:18used to it. Uh I do uh I do walk uh a
50:22little bit around in Delhi and I I I
50:25still have not got used to the fact that
50:28even though there is a zebra crossing,
50:30the cars do not stop when I want to walk
50:33over the over the street. So, that is my
50:36wish for the Delhi traffic that the cars
50:39can stop
50:41when when when you want to walk over the
50:44zebra crossing.
50:45>> So, as a driver, when I
50:49tend to do this,
50:51I always think that someone will come
50:53from the backside and it will hit my you
50:55know
50:56car. So, I will have to see in the back
50:59mirror also that okay, the pedestrian is
51:01going to crossing the road. So, I have
51:03to stop. But that fear is always there
51:06that someone will hit you from the
51:07backside. So,
51:08uh
51:09I can understand your your your your
51:11fear. So, final question is that because
51:14you have a spent so much time here, it
51:16might have changed your
51:17food habit also.
51:19So, what kind of Indian food you have
51:22started liking?
51:25>> You know, I liked Indian food long
51:26before I came to India. And in Norway we
51:29have a lot of Indian restaurants and
51:32some very good restaurants also.
51:35But most of the Indian restaurants in in
51:37Norway, they are they are they serve
51:41North Indian food.
51:43Uh after I came to India, I've got to
51:45know much more about South Indian food
51:48Um
51:49uh I really must say that I've got to
51:52like much more South Indian food.
51:55The dosas
51:57and and also the more spicy
52:00spicy prawn curries from Kerala and and
52:04uh
52:05the South Indian food I really
52:07appreciate.
52:08>> And my final question, if you allow me
52:12how much weight you give the
52:16press freedom index. Do you think that
52:18it carries some weight?
52:21Press freedom index. I'm talking about
52:22the press freedom index.
52:24So Norway is at number one and India is
52:27at number 157.
52:29So do you think that that is
52:32that carries some weight?
52:33That particular index?
52:35>> Uh well,
52:38um
52:38as a Norwegian diplomat and as Norway,
52:41we strongly believe in in press press
52:45freedom. As for particular press freedom
52:48index or particular way of measuring
52:51that, as a diplomat I I cannot really
52:54comment on
52:55on that.
52:56You know, that's also
52:58part of press freedom that anyone can
53:00comment in the way they will, but as a
53:03civil servant it's not for me to judge
53:06>> And before I leave you, if I can mention
53:09one incident which took place when PM
53:11Modi was there.
53:12So how do take that? Was it a
53:16embarrassing situation or it was you
53:19think that it was part of of that
53:21particular journalist who tried to ask
53:23one question. So what's your take on
53:25that if you if you want to share that?
53:28>> Uh well, same as
53:29as for the press freedom index, for me
53:32as a civil servant
53:34believing in press freedom, representing
53:37a country that believes in press
53:39freedom, I cannot comment on one
53:41particular journalist
53:44conduct yeah.
53:45>> And one final word to my viewers what
53:49whatever you want to say whatever
53:50message you want want to give please
53:52please go ahead.
53:54One final message from your side.
54:03That's very great.
54:11I have seen you speaking a bit Hindi
54:13when there was some function in the MEA
54:15and you spoke in Hindi and that was very
54:17you know very impressive.
54:20So thank you for giving time to us and
54:23hope we'll have more conversation in
54:25future at different point of time and
54:28once again thank you very much.
54:30>> Thank you very much. Thank you very
54:31much.

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