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From Film Sets to Federal Charges: John Santilli’s Survival Story @brentcassity — Transcript

by Brent Cassity - Nightmare Success · 16,907 words · 2,473 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00So my my mother um was sick for about a
0:02month with a back issue. We thought
0:04eventually it got so bad we took her to
0:06the hospital and um not even two weeks
0:09later she ends up dying. It was
0:11pancreatic cancer. It was a was shock
0:13and then about two weeks after that was
0:15when they raided me and I was told
0:18specifically cuz I asked my attorney
0:20many times I said you know are they
0:22going to raid anybody come into my
0:23house? I'll go and stay in a hotel if
0:25that's the case. I don't want my kids to
0:28be traumatized.
0:30They said they would let us know. Okay.
0:32Um
0:34>> April 13th, 2021, start, you know,
0:37before 5:00 a.m. banging on my door like
0:38crazy. I put a piece of tape over my
0:40Ring uh uh doorbell. And um I went down
0:44there and they said, "We have a warrant
0:45for your arrest, but not for your
0:47premises." So I had my hands up and I
0:49said, "I have kids upstairs."
0:52>> What happens [music] when your worst
0:53fear becomes your reality? Hi, I'm Brent
0:56Cassidy. Welcome to the Nightmare
0:58Success [music] In-N-Out podcast where
1:00we explore how to overcome your fears
1:02and nightmares [music] to set yourself
1:03free. We're going to be exploring this
1:05topic with guys I was in Levvenworth
1:07with and others who survived their own
1:10nightmare. These [music] stories can be
1:12inspiring, sometimes sad. There's some
1:15humor, but hopefully [music] you can
1:17come away with a nugget of something
1:18that'll help you knock down some of the
1:20prisons you built up in your own mind.
1:23>> [music]
1:24>> All right, welcome back nightmare
1:26success in-n-out listeners. This is
1:27where you come for what happens when
1:28your worst fear becomes your reality.
1:30How do you adapt, survive, overcome, set
1:31yourself free? And folks, don't forget
1:34to like this thing up, share it out,
1:37subscribe. It really helps the show and
1:40I so appreciate it. So, who are we
1:42talking to today on Nightmare Success?
1:45Uh well my guest today is filmmaker John
1:48Santelli and
1:51he is a producer whose fingerprints are
1:54on projects ranging from gr gritty indie
1:57films all the way to major studio
1:59releases like Bill and Ted Face the
2:01music with Kean Reeves. He's been
2:04executive producer on the English
2:06teacher with Julianne Moore uh Missing
2:09William and the thriller held hostage in
2:12my house. And of course, there's the
2:13Tales from the reboot.
2:16But here's what uh makes John a true
2:18nightmare success story. John went
2:20through his own personal nightmare. A
2:22federal securities fraud case that
2:24resulted in his conviction, his world
2:26collapse, his career, his reputation,
2:28his relationships, his identity. All of
2:30it was put through the fire. It was kind
2:33of like the moment where most people
2:35just say, "I'm done. Disappear. Never
2:38recover." But John didn't. He's fought
2:40through it. He survived it and he's
2:42built rebuilding his life piece by
2:44piece. Not not from hiding from it, from
2:47what happened, but by talking about it,
2:50learning from it, and continuing to
2:51create. Takes a little bit of grit, some
2:54resilience. I can't wait to jump into
2:57all this. Buckle up, folks. But before
3:00we do, I want to recognize uh our show
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3:31Autoplas. Tell them Brent from Nightmare
3:33Success sent you. Folks, I want to share
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4:01prison she had just been released from,
4:03Federal Dublin FCI was permanently
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4:25by her story.
4:27Welcome in, John. How are you, man?
4:29>> I'm good. Brent, how you doing?
4:31>> I'm doing good. Doing good. Um,
4:34so I don't know that I've there's been
4:37200 some odd interviews and I don't know
4:39that I've actually had somebody on who
4:42has been in film and like when you were
4:46growing up, John, was that something as
4:49a kid? I mean, were your parents
4:51involved in that stuff? Were you
4:52thinking of how did that all come around
4:55for you as a kid?
4:57Um, I think when um I think a lot had to
5:01do with probably my dad because um I
5:03wanted to be uh my father was a police
5:06officer and I wanted to be a police
5:08officer and I wanted to go to the FBI.
5:11>> Uh but then when I was um about 12 years
5:15old, I had I got uh type 1 diabetes.
5:18>> Okay. So, at the time, I'm not sure how
5:21it is now, but at the time, like certain
5:23um conditions, diabetes being one of
5:25them, type 1 diabetes being one of them,
5:27you couldn't be in the field like the
5:28FBI. And that's really what I wanted to
5:31do. So, that and you couldn't I don't
5:33think you I think you could be a police
5:35officer, but you couldn't you couldn't
5:38become a police officer. You could stay
5:40a police officer if you got it while you
5:42had it,
5:42>> but you couldn't go in with it.
5:44>> Yeah. So, um, that and then the me and
5:49my father, you know, I was a big sports
5:51fan, my father wasn't. The only thing we
5:52really had in common was I wanted to be
5:54a police officer and we loved movies.
5:56>> Well, I'm curious what growing up in a
5:58household um when your dad's a police
6:01officer, like what's that like as a kid?
6:04>> Um, you become a little bit of a
6:07monster. You think you whatever you
6:09want. [laughter] your father wants to
6:11kill you all the time because you know
6:13you're embarrassing him because you
6:14think oh my what happens is you know
6:17you're 16 you get pulled over they see
6:19the sticker on your car they say oh
6:20who's you know who's the sicker it's
6:22your father and they let you go
6:23>> you don't even have to do much and and
6:25and that happened a lot and I think as a
6:27kid you just get a little
6:29>> sometimes you get a free pass
6:31>> yeah yeah
6:32>> so yeah uh so growing up John was did
6:36you have a pretty normal I think you
6:37grew up up east
6:40Yeah, I grew up in Rhode Island.
6:42>> Okay.
6:42>> Born and raised um pretty normal, you
6:45know, I have a sister, very loving
6:47household. My parents were great. I
6:49mean, you know, it was a lower middle
6:51class, you know, we didn't we we always
6:54had food, we always had clothes, and we
6:55didn't struggle for that stuff. Um
6:59but um yeah, I mean, mostly a very very
7:02good family. Um
7:05>> brother, sisters. Yeah, just one sister,
7:08an older sister.
7:09>> Okay.
7:09>> Yep. And myself.
7:12>> So, you you move along, you got this uh
7:16your dad's a police officer and and uh
7:20you just you just early on decide that
7:22that's not going to be your route. Did
7:23you start thinking in high school about
7:25film or did that how how does that come
7:28to somebody?
7:29Um,
7:32I I have I guess the the curse and the
7:38[laughter]
7:39the blessing of being a bit irrational.
7:41>> Yeah, that helps.
7:42>> I've Yeah. Like [snorts]
7:45um I've always believed you can pretty
7:46much do whatever you want. And um
7:49sometimes, you know, I'm not saying I'm
7:52always rational, but I've always
7:53believed you can pretty much figure out
7:55whatever you want to do and do it,
7:56especially at a young age. And I just I
7:58wanted to do that and everybody thought
7:59I was crazy because we were in Rhode
8:01Island. Um but um you know I I uh I was
8:07interested in it quite you know right
8:09after high school I interned on a few
8:12films that were happening in Rhode
8:14Island and um I was waiting tables at
8:17the same time and then I had gotten out
8:19of it for a bit and I uh was teaching
8:21computers in like a nonprofit um
8:24organization and I did that for a few
8:26years. met my wife there and the program
8:29ended. It was DHS and and United Way
8:31funded and it ended.
8:33>> So I told my wife, we weren't married
8:34yet. We had just bought a house. I said,
8:36"I think I want to go back into film."
8:39>> And I was never in film when we were
8:41together.
8:41>> She'd never met you in film.
8:43>> Yeah. [laughter] She comes from a small
8:45town. Her father's in construction. Um
8:48very similar to my family.
8:50>> Yeah. Um and she thought I was crazy but
8:53um to her um credit and I'm very
8:57grateful she supported me. She said
8:58okay. And in her mind she was panicked.
9:01>> Sure.
9:01>> And so I had about you know seven eight
9:04months I was collecting because I got
9:05laid off in that program and I um I took
9:08bunch of I got on a bunch of films
9:11free. I would work for free and then
9:13people liked how I worked and they would
9:14hire me at odd jobs and just work my way
9:17through that way.
9:18>> Okay. So, getting into film in Rhode
9:21Island, um, were you thinking
9:24that you you were going to have to move
9:26to really get this thing going or did
9:29you think that the being in film and
9:31doing that could all just happen where
9:32you were?
9:34>> When I was younger, when I first got
9:36into it, so I did a movie called Outside
9:38Providence and then I worked like like a
9:40week on Something About Mary because
9:41they shot in Rhode Island, fresh.
9:42>> Oh, god. Yeah. I love that.
9:44>> Great show. Great movie.
9:47>> Yeah. Um, and I thought I was I thought
9:49I was going to have to move at some
9:51point. Um, but what ended up happening
9:54when I got back into it was the the tax
9:56incentives were very strong in Boston
9:58and Rhode Island. So, a lot of films and
10:00projects were coming because, you know,
10:03independent films, actually all films
10:05follow the the tax incentives. Wherever
10:07the tax incentives are, that's where
10:08they go and and shoot. So, that's it.
10:12There's there's a lot of business here,
10:13a lot of commercials, a lot of lot of
10:15opportunity. So, when did you first
10:17think, hey, this is going to work for
10:20me?
10:23>> Probably
10:24>> because you've been in some big stuff.
10:27>> Yeah. Well, you know, interestingly, I I
10:30worked a bunch of smaller jobs when I
10:32when I got laid off. Um,
10:35I got a position on a film called
10:38Telltale.
10:40Um, and it was uh, and I'll never I
10:42always remember it because I'm a big
10:43sports fan, but it was um,
10:47February 2018 because it was the day I
10:50started the day after the Patriots lost
10:52their perfect season to the Giants in
10:54the Super Bowl.
10:54>> Okay.
10:55>> Um,
10:56so,
10:58um, I did that. I was an assistant
11:00production coordinator. So, you have a
11:02production assistant, which is like the
11:03first position you go into. And an
11:05assistant production coordinator is
11:07you're in the office and you're again
11:09bottom of the barrel. And um I did that
11:13and the people that I worked with were,
11:15you know, they liked me. I I would get
11:18there before them, leave after them. I
11:20would end up taking some of the
11:20producers home and talking to them quite
11:22a bit. Um and a year later, I produced
11:25my first film with them, which was The
11:27English Teacher. So it was just um they
11:30they gave me a lot a lot of really good
11:32advice and um followed it and I just you
11:36know I was a hard worker. Um so I would
11:39I always I always made sure that I was
11:41busy whether I looked what I whether I
11:43was busy or not. I just looked busy. And
11:44that was one of the things one of the
11:45producers said that was his advice. He
11:47said I always act like you're busy even
11:49if you're not. And he and he was right
11:51because people like that and I I got
11:52there before them and I would leave
11:54after them.
11:55>> And so
11:55>> so what was what was your next step
11:56after that? So from there I I I was
12:00working on a lot of commercials um in
12:02between and um I worked on a movie or an
12:05Italian TV show in Massachusetts and
12:08then I worked on a second unit of a
12:10bigger film called Knowing with Nicholas
12:12Cage. And um the production managers,
12:16the unit production managers or line
12:18producers are the people that pretty
12:20much um run the day in and day out of
12:24the production.
12:25>> They make the they make everything go.
12:27Yeah. Yeah.
12:28>> So, um there were two people um the one
12:32the gentleman from the Italian show and
12:34then the the um woman from the uh show
12:38knowing that I did really liked me. Uh
12:41thought I was a hard worker. I was
12:42starting a family and um and they were
12:45super helpful and and they would kind of
12:47coach me along and I would go for jobs
12:49and I would get jobs that I wasn't
12:50qualified for and I would talk to them
12:53every day during the job before at the
12:55end and they would tell me, you know,
12:57you know, this you got to do. You got to
12:58stand here, you know, when everybody's
13:00wrapping up and I stand there and just
13:01stare at them, you know, so nobody gets
13:03extra overtime and just really I was
13:07very fortunate.
13:09So you step into this, you start making
13:11stuff and you and and it's u
13:15how long between the time we're talking
13:17about right now to when the nightmare
13:20started for you?
13:23>> So
13:25I would say
13:272001 two
13:31I said 17 already that was 200 2008 not
13:3418.
13:35>> I got that. I figured that. [laughter]
13:37>> Um, so I got back into film around 2006.
13:44>> Okay.
13:45>> It was about 10 years. About 10 years
13:47cuz 2016 is when everything happened.
13:50And it was for something
13:52>> I had never done before. It wasn't even
13:53in my wheelhouse as far as the film
13:56industry.
13:58Well, let's talk about that because the
14:01I mean when in fact you just sent me
14:03something that almost had a timeline on
14:05it and yeah
14:06>> a chance to read all of it, but it's
14:07it's it's I mean you really went through
14:10a lot and and there were a lot of
14:12different pieces of people involved.
14:14>> Yeah.
14:15>> Um
14:17and you had partners and you never know,
14:19you know, when you have these partners
14:21when this all started kind of getting
14:24crazy. Um,
14:27when did you feel like things didn't
14:29feel right?
14:33>> So, the show was 2016.
14:38Um, I mean, there were things. It was
14:41craziness when we put it together
14:43because, um, there was a lot of people
14:44involved, a lot of attorneys involved.
14:46Um, and again, it was something I had
14:48never done before. Um,
14:51so I would say
14:53before it got to the point where I was
14:56concerned, it was probably 2018 about
14:59two years.
15:00>> Yeah.
15:02>> Walk us through what happened.
15:04Um, so
15:06we had ownership in the project which
15:10was um in Vegas and
15:15my company owned I I was on the board uh
15:18with with three other very large people
15:22or entities and um I was by far the
15:25smallest um fish in that pond. Um but we
15:29had you know about 22% of of the show
15:31which was significant and we had
15:33investors that came through us. Um
15:38when everything was happening originally
15:40we were going through another company um
15:42a management company who brought us the
15:43deal. They were getting kicked out and
15:47we were asked to be the direct owners.
15:51We spoke to that company because we
15:53didn't want to circumvent them because
15:55they brought us to the table. Um there
15:57was a legal issue with an investor that
15:58they had and and they said if you can
16:01keep us on as a management company
16:02that's how we make our money that's all
16:04we care about. So we said okay and we
16:05went back to the show and we said that's
16:07what we've said and they said he said if
16:09they if you keep them on as a management
16:11company we'll still come in and and do
16:13that. They agreed. We were given um a $2
16:17million piece. Um that ended up changing
16:20to 1.875.
16:23Uh the reason that's significant is
16:24because they that was one of the things
16:26they portrayed that I misrepresented. It
16:29wasn't I was misrepresenting it. That's
16:31what we had at the time. Then it
16:33changed. So our documents had that and
16:34then it changed and I would tell people
16:36this is what this says but it's actually
16:38going to be this.
16:39>> Mhm.
16:40>> So um it was a little bit of a different
16:44structure than I had dealt with. Um and
16:46it's actually very simple. So, I feel
16:48silly saying that I didn't understand it
16:50because when looking back, it's actually
16:52fairly simple with limited partnerships,
16:54but I never dealt with one before with
16:56the GP and the LP. And we had an
16:59attorney that was creating all of
17:02our contracts and he created the
17:04companies, which we always do. We always
17:06have a special purpose vehicle for for
17:08whatever project. So, like if I have
17:11John Santelli Productions and I have a
17:14movie come through, I create an LLC
17:16underneath me.
17:17uh for that movie. So, it's standalone
17:19so that all the other projects don't get
17:21hurt if there's an issue on that
17:22project.
17:23>> Um we did that. Um the at like I said,
17:27the attorney has drafted all that. Um
17:31went back to the show and said, "We need
17:33to change the name on the contract
17:34because we're creating this special
17:36purpose vehicle." The attorney who I
17:38spoke to daily at that point said,
17:40"Let's just There's a lot of It's Vegas.
17:43There's a lot of um
17:46there's a lot of uh things that we had
17:48to I guess do and qualify for. We had to
17:50be on the liquor license. So there's a
17:51lot of like red tape we had to go
17:53through. So we said let's do it with the
17:55main company and then we'll change it to
17:56the other company because they're not
17:57going to know the other company because
17:58it's a brand new company.
17:59>> Mhm.
18:00>> Said okay.
18:02We did that. Um,
18:05at one point, um, we closed the deal and
18:09we have investors in our company and we
18:11have investors
18:13in this limited partnership. Um, and
18:16that's where it got a little bit wonky
18:18because the way the contracts were
18:19created was very confusing. So just to
18:22give you an example, my company was
18:25Alloris Entertainment. Then my attorney
18:28created a Loris Entertainment LP and
18:31then a Loris Entertainment GP which was
18:33the general partner. So it was and then
18:36the LLC was
18:39a limited partner and the in the
18:43limited partner. It was just very
18:44confusing. So, so, and I guess the other
18:46part of the confusing part of it, it's
18:48all the same name, just with the back
18:50end of it. It's different.
18:51>> That's why. And I didn't understand what
18:53everything was. And my partner wasn't,
18:56one of my partners was an attorney.
18:58>> Um, but this deal was
19:00>> Did he know all these guys? Have you
19:01done deals with them in other deals?
19:03>> No.
19:04>> Okay. So, this was this is this was a
19:06new
19:07>> thing. Yeah. Yeah. And and the people
19:09that you were in bed with were new
19:11people that you hadn't been partners
19:14with in the past.
19:15>> The the people on the Vegas show, the
19:17the partners I had I I did I I was I was
19:20with them for a while.
19:22>> Um so my partner that was an attorney um
19:25his cousin was an attorney and he
19:27created all the documents and um
19:31uh this was going on like as far as
19:34putting the deal together with one of
19:35our bigger investors. This was happening
19:36late at night. I didn't raise the money
19:38myself. There was somebody that came in
19:39and brought the investors in.
19:41>> Okay.
19:42>> One of the things that they said was
19:43>> that was his job to go out.
19:45>> I was technically soliciting. I was I'm
19:47not saying I wasn't, but I was delegated
19:49that out.
19:49>> It wasn't me going out to people as it
19:51seemed.
19:51>> Right. So, there was this guy that was
19:53um handling all that and um he had a big
19:57investor who was one of the major
19:59investors and going back and forth.
20:03You know, I was, you know, for for
20:05several days cuz we were right up
20:06against the deadline for several days up
20:08until we had to um close. I was probably
20:12up until 6:00, 7:00 in the morning. They
20:14were they were uh in LA, but I'm in in
20:16Rhode Island. So, I was up overnight and
20:18my attorney and um I'm sorry, my my
20:21partner who was an attorney doesn't work
20:24after hours pretty much. So, I had to
20:26handle all that. And I was not um
20:30I was not qualified. Let's just say that
20:33I wasn't qualified. I'd go back and
20:34forth with I never talked to the
20:36investor directly, but this one guy I
20:38talked to every day, he'd go back to him
20:41and call me back and go back and you
20:43know, he wants this or that. And and
20:45because of that, we ended up getting a
20:47really um they put something in the
20:48contract that we didn't know about that
20:51I didn't know about and basically took
20:53advantage of us.
20:54>> But um uh because I didn't know again
20:57what to look for and my attorney wasn't
20:59available. So that was kind of the how
21:01it all the process happened. Once we
21:04closed with that person,
21:06he had come up with an idea of selling
21:09off our shares for a higher value, which
21:13you could sell them off, keep a piece,
21:15but because the show is now gaining
21:17attention, we can make money that way.
21:20>> So that's what we ended up doing, and
21:23that's what ended up causing the
21:25problem.
21:27So did I mean but that seems like that's
21:28something that people do all the time
21:30where you you get the you get the show
21:32funded, you get it then you start
21:34getting recognition and then you can
21:35bring other people in and you can you
21:36know basically make money on the on the
21:39gap.
21:40>> Yeah.
21:40>> Um so when did it come to you that oh my
21:44gosh I'm in trouble?
21:48So, [sighs] we
21:51there's a lot of backstory and I I don't
21:53want to get into because it's long and
21:54it's boring, but um I had a dispute with
21:58the main investor.
22:00>> Okay.
22:00>> Um
22:02we also had a slate of shows with this
22:04management company which was um The
22:07Voice um America's Got Talent and then
22:10another um new show that they were doing
22:13in Vegas. And this investor was putting
22:15a lot of money into it. uh something
22:17around 24 million.
22:19>> Okay.
22:19>> And
22:20>> that's a lot of money.
22:21>> Yeah. So,
22:23when there was an issue with this
22:25particular investor, um I probably let
22:28it go on for a little bit too long
22:30because I didn't want to blow the other
22:31deal.
22:32>> Mhm.
22:33>> And um he ended up backing out of that
22:36anyway. once he did um
22:40that caused some problems
22:42>> like when when all this was put together
22:44and you know you were looked like you
22:47had it set to roll because you were you
22:49you done kind of the
22:51the major pieces of it. When did you get
22:55because you know a lot of times you know
22:57in business it's it's a funny thing in
22:58business when it's it's you're I've
23:01never been in the film business but I
23:03know that in business as an entrepreneur
23:06you're building a business you take risk
23:08and sometimes you take risks that you've
23:10never taken before to try to get to the
23:12next step and it sounds like to me what
23:15we're talking about John is that you had
23:17an opportunity
23:19it was a bigger opportunity and you had
23:21to take risk to get this thing to make
23:23it happen. But because you had these
23:25partners, it kind of looks like it fell
23:27apart around it and you were standing
23:30there and they started making
23:32accusations to try to limit their
23:35exposure to get out.
23:37>> Yeah. Yeah. Um that's a lot of truth to
23:42that. Yeah. Um
23:44the you know with with the when we had
23:47an issue with one investor, what
23:49happened was he had backed out of that
23:50one uh that larger slate
23:54and um he had purchased he had sent us
23:58money for additional ownership of this
24:01the Vegas show because we were we were
24:04again selling them for higher value but
24:06he was just buying them onetoone. So he
24:08he sent us money, cashier's checks to
24:10buy additional shares.
24:13After he backed out of the other one, I
24:14had a conversation with my attorney and
24:17we had no contract, but there's no um
24:20agreement if you don't have
24:22>> a contract, right? Consideration of I
24:25can't remember what it is. So we sent
24:27him back the his c um his his um
24:31investment was $375. We sent him
24:33cashiier checks. They they would they
24:35were sent in two uh 100,000 and 275. So
24:38we sent him two, one for 100, one for
24:40275 and then we my attorney wrote a
24:43letter, sent it registered mail. He
24:46never responded to that. Um
24:50fast forward a few more months. This was
24:53just before the show was um this is just
24:56after the show opened. Fast forward a
24:58few months until the uh when the first
25:00distribution was coming and he um had
25:04reached out to the show and threatened
25:07to sue them. It was me, said it was a
25:09Ponzi scheme, all this stuff. And um at
25:12that point, that's when everything got
25:14really kind of crazy. [snorts]
25:16>> Well, and if I remember right, that's
25:18$375,000
25:21was and your bank recommended that that
25:24you cancel those checks after 6 months.
25:26And as soon as you canceled those checks
25:28is when he said uh it was all wrong and
25:30you never had attempted to pay and all
25:32the other things that that that went
25:34through. So that's really
25:35>> afterwards like it was being checked
25:36every day. Yeah. He said uh he cancelled
25:38those.
25:39>> So what happens next in that situation?
25:42>> Well, so before we canceled the uh those
25:45checks, we had sent them. He reached
25:47out. Um we had our first distribution.
25:50Um the distribution was paid out to all
25:52the investors. Everybody read a
25:54contract, got paid by the contract. Um,
25:57this investor reached out. I never got
26:00paid again by the show. They just
26:02stopped paying me. And that's that's
26:04what started causing problems with the
26:05other investors during this process.
26:08That 6 months goes by and that's when
26:11they added the oh, it's bank fraud
26:13because you you didn't um you cancel
26:16these checks. But I had a conversation
26:18with the bank manager who um advised me
26:21of this. you know, it's that that claim,
26:25although it's out there, they didn't
26:26have a lot of room to stand legs to
26:29stand on with that that claim. But they
26:32did they did make it um
26:36about a year after that initial um when
26:40he initially reached out to the show
26:43um he filed a lawsuit and they filed
26:48arbitration on the same day. So, they
26:50were obviously in coordination. He was a
26:52very wealthy person. He made it known to
26:53them that he he, you know, he'd be
26:56around and invest in future stuff and
26:59wanted this taken care of. And
27:02so, you know, a year just about about a
27:05year after that, they filed on the same
27:07day. And then I had to go to
27:08arbitration. Eventually, I had multiple
27:11attorneys, but it was just um it was
27:14expensive. It was very expensive and I
27:16didn't have the money. Eventually, I ran
27:18out of money and couldn't fight
27:20everything. I was getting sued by, you
27:22know, there's a lot of smaller
27:23investors, and this was what really bugs
27:25me. Um,
27:29everybody, like I said, everybody was
27:30paid when I got paid. I didn't get paid
27:32again. These people were brought in
27:34through someone else. They don't know me
27:35from a hole in the wall.
27:36>> Mhm.
27:37>> Um,
27:41they invest in something, get paid once,
27:43and then never see anything else, and
27:45nothing makes sense to them. Why aren't
27:46you getting paid? I don't know. They're
27:48just not paying me. Well, how can they
27:50do that? I don't know. They're just not
27:51paying me. And that's, you know, that
27:53ended up pissing people off. And I
27:54don't, you know, although it was
27:56frustrating, I don't blame them. I mean,
27:58how how
27:59>> because they don't know, they don't know
28:00the inside of what anything is going on.
28:02They just know that they've invested
28:03money.
28:04>> Yeah. Yeah. And and you know, and who
28:06knows what they were told. I know in the
28:08stuff that I saw, uh, things that they
28:10were told. I mean, you know, you talk to
28:13a lot of people. A lot of these people
28:15were approached with, "Did you know this
28:18happened?" And then the story was told.
28:20So much after the fact when everything's
28:22going on, when they're trying to indict
28:24you, this is the story. It's, "Did you
28:26know this person did this?" And then
28:28they say these things and of course the
28:30people, what are they going to say?
28:31>> Like they're going to be pissed off.
28:32They're not going to call me up and try
28:34to talk to me and and they don't know
28:36me. They just think I'm, you know, I'm a
28:37scam artist now.
28:39>> Well, you have some crazy things that
28:40happened. um you know the
28:45you have you know the the uh the FBI
28:48comes over to your place uh and you know
28:53they weren't supposed to and and your
28:55kids are there and your wife um what
29:00when that day happens what what's what's
29:02going through your mind?
29:04Well, you know, they they reached out um
29:07for the first time
29:09um end of the end of 2020,
29:12>> and I wanted to
29:16speak to them. Uh they would never speak
29:19to me. They would never look at anything
29:20that I had.
29:21>> Well, yeah. You actually just wanted to
29:22show them what everything was.
29:24>> Yeah.
29:24>> You were you wanted to show what the
29:27situation was because it's kind of
29:28confusing.
29:30>> Yeah. There's an issue with a contract
29:32change that was they they blasted out
29:34there, but I have an email from my
29:35attorney telling me to change the
29:37contract. I asked him, I said, "They
29:39didn't make this adjustment." He said,
29:40"Just change it yourself and redline
29:41it." I changed it. I didn't redline it.
29:44I was wrong. But but I I was
29:47>> trying to do what the attorney was
29:48telling you to do. The intent was was to
29:51try to make it right. And the contracts,
29:53the way they were writt, you know, they
29:54they put out there that
29:57the con like I I sold something I didn't
30:00own for one. And that's and half the
30:02news outlets out there just ran with
30:05that and said I didn't own anything when
30:07I was in the press releases. Like
30:10>> I can't put myself in their press
30:12releases,
30:13>> right? So they said I didn't own
30:14something, but the way it was
30:15structured, the contract literally said
30:18they're buying a share in this company
30:21that's owned by this company. So the
30:24main company owns them and it's passing
30:26them through this company. They're
30:27getting the financial interest. So it
30:29was I didn't design the contract. That's
30:31just the way it was. But there was it
30:33was all kind of lined up like that. So
30:35they
30:38>> the media version narrative was is that
30:40you had designed a scheme through these
30:44random uh shell companies. I mean, it's
30:49what happens in these situations when
30:51something's complicated.
30:53The way that you're supposed to design
30:56things um looks if you put it on up on a
31:00wall and they put it on the news, it
31:02looks bad [laughter] because it's
31:04because it's like you like in our case,
31:06we had an insurance company and we had a
31:09an LLC in every uh state because we were
31:12audited differently and that's just the
31:13way that it was. That's the way the
31:14attorney set up. But when they put it up
31:16on a huge board and you're in 25 states,
31:18it looks like you're you're creating
31:19some kind of weird maze and it's
31:23something you didn't create. It's just
31:24the way that the legally that it's set
31:26up. So, you get through all this, John,
31:30and you know that things you don't have
31:34money to fight this thing. It's coming
31:36at you from different angles. Um,
31:40did they contact you and say, "Listen,
31:42we're we're going to indict you or we're
31:44going to arrest you." what like how does
31:46this come down for you?
31:47>> No, they um they eventually reached out
31:49to my attorney um and and that's when I
31:53had said that, you know, let me just
31:55>> myself I said I'm willing to if I did
31:58something wrong, I'm willing to um take
32:01responsibility for that. Uh
32:03>> and I just wanted to talk. I wanted to
32:05show what I had. So because they were
32:08saying that, you know, they come how
32:11they reached out was with a plea
32:12agreement. They sent a plea agreement to
32:14my attorney which was terrible and
32:17that's and I'm like no that's crazy. So
32:18I asked to speak, they said no and they
32:21came back with the worst plea agreement
32:23and then that happened three or four
32:24times. But going through this um
32:28one of the things I wanted to tell them
32:30well the show itself we had I had the
32:34ownership in the show that I I had
32:37approached the show when things got
32:38really bad and people weren't getting
32:39paid and I said I'll step out
32:42or we'll break this one person off he'll
32:44make more money because now he doesn't
32:46have to share with me and then I'll keep
32:48my other people
32:49>> and everybody will make out and and
32:51they'll make out better. The only person
32:52that loses is me and and my partners. Um
32:56they refused that and then when the
32:58government had reached out that was the
33:00show itself refused that and they and
33:02the uh investor the government I had
33:05wanted to say yes. I tried to make this
33:07right. I I was very naive. I thought and
33:09I thought that they cared about intent.
33:13>> Um so I said I I said I want I wanted to
33:16show this. And then we had another very
33:18large um production that I just
33:20finished. It was a a live event and it
33:24made a ton of money and my my partner,
33:27my other partner out west and I were
33:30going to make quite a bit of money and
33:31we said we can pay those investors back
33:33so at least they're whole once that
33:35money comes in and then we'll deal with
33:38fighting whatever we have to fight with
33:39the show and all that.
33:41>> And um
33:44the uh the
33:45>> was that the boxing event that Yeah.
33:47That did really well. Yeah.
33:49>> Yeah. And I had to stay on the outside
33:51mostly because of um I was being sued by
33:55everybody. So my name couldn't be on
33:56anything at that point.
33:58>> Which ironically the reason my partner
34:00who did that wasn't on the actual
34:02company for the show was because he had
34:06issues before and he couldn't be on it
34:07and I was the only one that was clean.
34:10>> Yeah.
34:10>> Um but boxing is not very uh not very
34:14clean itself. We don't really care as
34:16much I guess. But that there was a lot
34:18of money that came in. Long story short,
34:20um I found that well he went and bought
34:23a very nice multi-million dollar house
34:26with it and um I have no direct proof of
34:31this um that he was uh he made a deal
34:34with the FBI and the government.
34:37However, he was my business partner. we
34:40did everything together and there was no
34:42statement or discovery from him
34:45>> in in the case file. So that didn't make
34:47a lot of sense. So I can you know put to
34:51>> which is common. That happens a lot.
34:52They use one person to get to another
34:54person.
34:55>> Yeah. And they and they didn't care.
34:56They let I mean there was so much money
34:58coming in from that.
35:01>> You know it was it was it was more than
35:03enough to take care of people.
35:04>> Could you could have solved all the
35:06issues of whatever you were dealing
35:07with.
35:08>> Yeah. So, getting back to the the plea
35:11agreements and and the the refusing the
35:13plea agreements. Was was the raid a
35:17shock?
35:18>> Yes. So, my my mother um was sick for
35:21about a month. It was a back issue. We
35:23thought eventually it got so bad we took
35:25her to the hospital and um not even two
35:29weeks later she ends up dying. It was
35:31pancreatic cancer. It was a was shot.
35:33And then about two weeks after that was
35:35when they raided me. And I was told
35:38specifically because I asked my attorney
35:40many times, I said, you know, are they
35:42going to raid anybody come into my
35:44house? I'll go and stay in a hotel if
35:46that's the case.
35:47>> Mhm.
35:47>> I don't want my kids to be traumatized.
35:51>> They said they would let us know. And
35:54Okay. So, um, April 13th, 2021, they
35:59start, you know, before 5:00 a.m.
36:01banging on my door like crazy. I put a
36:02piece of tape over my Ring uh uh
36:05doorbell and um I went down there and
36:08they said, "We have a warrant for your
36:10arrest, but not for your premises." So,
36:12I had my hands up and I said, "I have
36:14kids upstairs."
36:16>> Mhm.
36:16>> Um they brought me outside and then I
36:21still can't get an answer on this, but
36:22then the agents just kind of all came in
36:24the house and went upstairs, downstairs
36:27just told me they had no warrant. But
36:29there was about I maybe 12 13 cars, 15
36:3417 agents, and I live on a small little
36:37dead end in a condo. It's not like I'm
36:39in this multi-million dollar mansion. I
36:42live, you know, three-bedroom condo um
36:44on at the end of a dead end on a very
36:47quiet street. So, it was um
36:49>> chaos.
36:51>> Yeah. I didn't There was uh they knew I
36:53wasn't a risk or a flight risk or a
36:54danger.
36:55>> Right. Right. And as we were talking
36:57about before this this uh before we hit
37:00the record button, they they they
37:02randomly just choose who and when
37:04they're going to do that. They there's
37:05there's no set. It's just random. They
37:08you know you're it.
37:10>> So uh I I know that had to have been
37:13horrific. Uh your kids are in there,
37:15your wife's in there. Uh you weren't
37:17expecting this. Uh you obviously weren't
37:20expecting them to go in the place that
37:22you live.
37:23What was the next thing that happened?
37:26Uh, so
37:29you know, after they they I guess came
37:30through everything, they they went
37:32upstairs and they said stuff for my wife
37:33and kids, told my wife in front of the
37:36the kids what was going on and um
37:40took me in um
37:44you know, booked me. I was there for not
37:47>> and the charge the charge that you're
37:48being booked for is is securities
37:50selling stock selling shares
37:53>> uh for whatever they say the wrong
37:56intent is right
37:57>> it was uh wire and securities fraud
38:01which this one was a shock to me which I
38:03I think they put on a lot of people is
38:04aggravated identity theft
38:06>> okay
38:07>> because I didn't make sense I'm like I
38:08didn't steal anybody's identity but it's
38:10>> um the changing of the contract they
38:12said was aggravated identity theft which
38:14I think that was probably my strongest
38:16um defense because I had so much proof
38:18that it was not
38:20>> right.
38:20>> No, it was it was
38:21>> right and through an attorney.
38:22>> Yeah. But um they they charged me with
38:2410 or 12 counts. They put in the press
38:28release
38:29um and this is one of those things
38:31>> and they were probably agitated, John,
38:33honestly because you turned down three
38:35or four of these plea agreements. So
38:36they thought, well, you know what? We're
38:37just going to go on. We're gonna take
38:38him. We're going to scare the crap out
38:40of him and take him and see how he likes
38:42all that.
38:43>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. But they um they
38:46put out a press release that said I was
38:48facing 182 years statutory maximum.
38:51>> Okay.
38:51>> Now,
38:53you know, I didn't know the legal system
38:55very well. Most people don't. And I
38:57think we talked about this before. I
38:59said, "Nobody trusts the government
39:00until they put a press release out.
39:01Government puts a press release out.
39:03Everybody's 100% true.
39:04>> I see I see press releases. I can't
39:06believe so and so did." And I All right,
39:08stop. You know, you know better.
39:10>> Yeah. So 182 years a a a few months
39:14after I was arrested that the guy out in
39:18California with like a $600 million
39:21fraud, a Ponzi scheme,
39:23>> Zachary Harowitz gets arrested and they
39:25put in facing a maximum of 20 years.
39:28Same office, same prosecutor,
39:31you know, like
39:32>> Yeah.
39:32>> So, you know, I think they pick and
39:34choose that. There's something the guy
39:35didn't like about me. I I don't know
39:38what the connection was, but there's
39:40something that he just
39:42>> So, did you go in and out or did they
39:44keep you there?
39:45>> No, they tried to they tried to say I
39:46was a flight risk and luckily the judge
39:48said that's ridiculous. He has family.
39:50He's not going anywhere. They took my
39:51passport. Uh we were in Providence. I
39:53don't remember the weather if like in my
39:56mind it was like zero, but it wasn't. It
39:58was probably 40° or something, but I'm
40:00in shorts and a t-shirt and and
40:03sneakers. And they said they would let
40:05me use the phone. They said they would
40:06feed me cuz I was a type 1 diabetic.
40:08Luckily, I didn't have an issue. They
40:10didn't feed me. They didn't let me use a
40:12phone. They let me out of the federal
40:14building in the middle of I had no
40:16phone, nothing in the middle of
40:18Providence.
40:20And luckily, my attorney was about four
40:23or five blocks away, so I just walked
40:25there.
40:26>> But they just just said, "All right,
40:28you're you're out. Here you go." So,
40:31>> wow. Well, let's jump into what happened
40:34after this because I know you went
40:35through a battle and and I mean you're
40:38here and you survived it, but uh let's
40:40take a break here. I I want to say a lot
40:41of people don't like how they show up
40:43online. Many individuals think there's
40:45there's no hope when it comes to
40:46managing your reputation on Google.
40:48There is hope. It's called the
40:49discoverability company and they can
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40:59to learn more about the Discoverability
41:01Company, go to discoverability.co.
41:04Uh if you uh use the uh coupon code
41:08nightmare success, you can get a $100
41:10off getting started. This is this is a
41:12company that can help you and they know
41:14what they're doing. discoverability.co.
41:16and the nightmare success podcast is
41:18sponsored by the white collar support
41:19group. The world's first support group
41:21devoted to people navigating the white
41:22collar criminal justice system. I'm a
41:24member of the white collar support
41:26group. John is too. And I can tell you
41:28this is a bunch of people who help each
41:30other through the criminal justice
41:31journey for free. Whether you are just
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41:37Monday 7 p.m. Eastern time. For more
41:40information, go to prisonist.org. That's
41:43prisonist.org.
41:45Okay. So, John, you What are you
41:48thinking? I mean, your your head has to
41:51be spinning, right?
41:53>> Yeah. I I um I I don't know what I was
41:56thinking to be honest. I
41:57>> I mean, you're walking four blocks in in
42:00cold weather and shorts and a t-shirt
42:02thinking, "Holy wow."
42:04>> I I I think I was just
42:08I don't I didn't, you know, I didn't
42:10grow up sheltered. I I you know, I I'm
42:13pretty street smart.
42:14>> Yeah. Your dad was a police officer.
42:16>> Yeah. And like I I've I've been in, you
42:19know, I've been around some tough
42:20situations. I've um [clears throat] I I
42:23I don't I don't think that I, you know,
42:25I didn't grow up in in the hood. I'm not
42:27like I don't claim to be a tough guy. Um
42:30but I've I've seen a lot. I've been
42:32around a lot. I think I'm pretty street
42:33smart. Um and I think a lot of that
42:35helps in business. Um
42:38totally naive to this. I I I was just so
42:42naive to this. I thought I truly
42:45believed that the government um I didn't
42:49think the government told the truth
42:50about everything, but as far as the
42:52criminal justice system, I didn't think
42:54things went like this. I I really
42:56didn't. I I thought
42:58it I thought you dealt with human beings
43:00and and it turns out a lot of times you
43:02don't. You deal with robots and and it's
43:05just this is what needs to be done and
43:07that's that. And they don't care about
43:10people. They don't care about families.
43:12They don't care about the truth. They
43:13don't care about the victims.
43:15>> They don't They care about how they
43:17look,
43:18>> right? Convictions.
43:20>> Yeah. Yeah.
43:20>> And that's how the promotion system
43:22works, too, which is it's unfortunate.
43:24You know, I had Scott Rosenlum on the on
43:27this show
43:29couple months ago and and he's he's been
43:32very successful as an attorney and and
43:35taking cases to trial. And you know, he
43:38said the only way that you can truly get
43:40justice, and he says it's very, very
43:42rare, is it if you have a good judge,
43:46>> Mhm.
43:47>> And he said that's the only real way
43:49because everything else is is is really
43:52all set for
43:54>> uh wins on the on the government side.
43:58>> Yes.
43:58>> So, when you get to that office of the
44:00attorney, what's what's she saying?
44:03What's what's the what's the discussion
44:06now?
44:07So, I had I had I went through so many
44:09attorneys, but I had two attorneys at
44:10this time. The other attorney that I had
44:12is the one who told me that they're not
44:14coming to your house. This attorney had
44:16told me, "You need to get somebody in LA
44:19um uh uh local council in LA so we can
44:24use them." And my mother had just died.
44:26So, I said, "Give me a week or two. Let
44:27me let me just deal with my mom and my
44:29father is, you know, devastated. So, let
44:31me just deal with this and my kids." Um,
44:34and [clears throat] his was pretty much,
44:35"I told you so."
44:37>> And I didn't use him after that. He was
44:38like, "I told you this was gonna happen
44:40and I didn't want that's not what I want
44:42to hear right now."
44:42>> Yeah.
44:43>> Um, I didn't appreciate that. He was he
44:46was very much the attorney. He's a very
44:49good attorney, but he pleads. That's
44:52what he does. He cleans everybody out.
44:54He's a former Jag.
44:56>> Um, very accomplished. But uh I at that
45:00point again naive I was hellbent on
45:03fighting. I'm like I'm fighting this.
45:04I'm not. There's no way I'm I'm
45:06pleading.
45:08So yeah. So I uh he didn't have great
45:10advice. So my wife came and picked me up
45:13and you know just a
45:16you know
45:17>> well
45:18your I mean your wife has obviously been
45:21supportive. I mean she has to be in
45:22complete shock of what happened and
45:25you're a filmmaker.
45:27>> Yeah. this isn't this is not the world
45:29that we know. Um and uh listen I I I
45:33felt um I I you know this stuff that
45:36happened with my mother um was awful and
45:40and and
45:42of course I don't you know didn't want
45:44to see anything happen to her. But thank
45:45God it was before I was arrested. That's
45:47all I said
45:48>> because I I to do that to her too.
45:51Especially if she was sick. if she was
45:53sick and they oh god I it was it was uh
45:59you really find out so much about people
46:02when you deal with something like this
46:03because
46:05just people you're just friends with or
46:06you think are are are you close with or
46:10have your back and you're not asking
46:11them to do anything. You're not asking
46:12them to lie. You're not asking them to
46:14to even have your backy
46:16>> but just some people just disappear.
46:18>> They just they're gone.
46:20>> Well, and some of it is by design. you
46:22know that there's a lot of people that
46:24you don't even know that have a fear of
46:27being around somebody because somehow
46:29they could get, you know, it falls on
46:31them, the feathers, you know, lands on
46:33them. And in some cases, it really does.
46:36And and and we don't even know if
46:37they're talking to those people. You
46:39know, you can't because you're not
46:41you're not in discussion about this. And
46:43a lot of people just of of the the
46:46government just as a fear factor can
46:48create a wall around you and talk to
46:50people to scare them off that they won't
46:52even attempt to reach out to you because
46:54they think that somehow it's it's it's a
46:56fear of theirs that they could somehow
46:58get involved. And and I know that's a
47:01paranoid thing to say, but there's some
47:03people that actually do. And and there's
47:05a lot of very innocent people that get
47:08tied up into a system just because
47:11they're around it. And so that fear is
47:14real.
47:14>> Yeah.
47:15>> But it makes you feel like you're on an
47:16island. And and when you when you're
47:19dealing with something that you've never
47:21dealt with before, being on an island,
47:24not knowing what's next, the unknown is
47:26is a is a place, you know, I don't wish
47:29on anybody.
47:31>> Yeah. It's um it's a very lonely place.
47:34Um,
47:36you know, for you know, fortunately for
47:39me,
47:41um, I'm not I'm not great at this. I do
47:45my best. Um, but when everything started
47:48getting bad, um, I started meditating.
47:50Always wanted to meditate my whole life.
47:52Never really could, but I started
47:53meditating because I needed to do
47:54something because I was a wreck and I
47:56was dealing very I was I was responding
47:58very emotionally to everything and it
48:01was affecting my kids. something would
48:03happen on a Friday, the whole weekend
48:04would be gone.
48:06>> So, I started doing that and I have a
48:07very obsessive personality, so I was
48:09doing that like crazy.
48:11>> That helped me more than anything as far
48:12as just perspective. When everything
48:14went bad, I was able to stop at some
48:16point and relax a bit. And
48:20I have a a pretty good ability to
48:25reframe things in my life. Um, I think I
48:28always have. um can certainly be
48:31negative, but a lot of times I get
48:33really negative and then I take a day
48:35and then I sit back and then I
48:37reprocess. And I was able to do that
48:39with this and I was able to plan and I'm
48:41very motivated by these things. I wish I
48:43wasn't wish I was motivated just by
48:45getting up and you know wanting to have
48:47a good day but motivated by bad things.
48:50>> So um I was very obsessive for a long
48:54time. I had to go through emails and and
48:56it's it's literally like close to a
48:59million emails because the back back and
49:01forth and it's
49:01>> back and forth. Yeah.
49:03>> Um there was just so much
49:06minutia to try to figure out. Um, I
49:09ended up getting an attorney out in LA
49:12who was a um, a prosecutor in that same
49:16office and um, he had just went on his
49:19own um, and I was one of his first
49:21clients and I'm I'm lucky I was because
49:24we had a really good relationship and he
49:26went way above and beyond. I got charged
49:28so much more by other attorneys. Charged
49:31me once, said if you can pay again, you
49:33pay again. If you can't, don't. And I
49:35wasn't able to. I would have if I could
49:37have. and um incredibly grateful to him.
49:41But he was he was really good in walking
49:43me through everything because so much of
49:45the stuff is you just don't it's not
49:47just the research of figuring out every
49:50part of this and making sure everything
49:51connects because you forget a lot of
49:53stuff like you don't you're not trying
49:54to lie but when you tell the story I
49:56have to look back sometimes and say did
49:57this happen or did that happen because
49:59there's so many little events. So he was
50:02he was great. He was he was patient with
50:05me. He spent an incredible amount of
50:07time. But one of the things they did was
50:09they my evidence was under seal and I
50:14had to be with my attorney to view it.
50:17So he's in LA and I'm here.
50:20>> Mhm.
50:20>> It's and I'm sure they do this to a lot
50:22of people, but it's you have this
50:25voluminous amount of evidence or
50:27discovery that you want to go through,
50:30but you have to be with your attorney.
50:32The attorney is charging you an hourly
50:34fee. Mhm.
50:35>> So it it just it wasn't really like I
50:38want to be able to get up in the middle
50:40of the night and go downstairs and look
50:41at something that I remember and and go
50:42through. So that was that was tough. But
50:46the they said there was personal
50:48identifying information, but it was all
50:50my information.
50:52>> It wasn't who you going to harm.
50:54>> Yeah. Very few things were from other
50:57people. It was my bank accounts. It was
50:58my like I didn't care. But so that was
51:01tough. But that's I think another thing
51:03that they do to um to kind of uh to make
51:08it more difficult. I think
51:10>> one of one of the things when they when
51:12they have that kind of thing happen,
51:13John, is they'll they'll put in, you
51:15know, they have all those boxes and
51:16they'll put boxes and boxes and boxes in
51:18the room, you know, for you know, in our
51:20case, we had 12 million documents. So,
51:22you know, it's like that's a lot.
51:24>> Yeah. And then then they know that
51:26they're looking for one thing and
51:27they'll put that in like one file and
51:29in, you know, 56 boxes and you have to
51:31go through all 56 boxes to find that one
51:34file
51:35>> and and that's that's real. I mean, they
51:37and they can do that. There's nothing
51:38wrong with them doing that, but it's
51:40it's um it's it's a lot.
51:43>> Yeah.
51:43>> So, you get this attorney, uh you like
51:45this attorney, you start going through
51:47all this stuff. How long from the time
51:48that they take you and they take they
51:50raid your house? Are you in a position
51:52to where you think you're getting
51:53resolution to this?
51:57>> About
51:59[groaning] um year and a half maybe
52:02before I pled.
52:03>> Before I pled it was a year and a half.
52:05And um my
52:08>> And when you pled was it a lot different
52:10looking than what they were trying to
52:12present to you in those original plea
52:14agreements? Well, this is something I
52:17didn't understand. Um, because my plea
52:20agreement was worse. When you read it,
52:22it looked worse. My guidelines were
52:24high. It was 70 to 87 months. And my
52:27guidelines before were like 40 to, you
52:29know, 48 or something. I don't remember
52:31the the exact uh number,
52:34but my attorney
52:38wanted me to do he thought this was a
52:40better deal because it left several
52:43things open to argue.
52:45>> Okay. know several of the enhancements
52:47and um and it was very aggressive which
52:51I think also um
52:56I think I think it portrayed their side
53:00a little negatively because it was so
53:02aggressive for what they were charging
53:04like the actual charge and all the stuff
53:06that they were trying to say and and the
53:08guidelines were I mean I was up there
53:11with like rapists like it was really it
53:14was high.
53:15>> Mhm.
53:15>> So, um, he had wanted me to do it. I
53:18didn't want to. I was very adamant. I
53:20didn't I was
53:23I was very against it. Um, because I
53:26think I figured once I pled that was it.
53:29So,
53:31we went back and forth. He he convinced
53:33me that it was the best deal. Um, I and
53:36I can make out. He was he convinced me
53:38that I can make out with probation.
53:40Okay.
53:40>> I'm like I I'm researching everything.
53:43I'm like, "Nobody makes gets probation
53:44with this." I said, "I I don't even
53:46qualify for it." And then he was
53:47explaining to me how variances work and
53:49departures and all that.
53:50>> Well, him being a prosecutor from that
53:52office, he would know a lot more than
53:53most.
53:54>> Yeah. So, uh, I said uh I I I said I
53:58agreed to do it. I said the only thing I
54:01asked I said in LA County there's two
54:03million people. My town there's a few
54:05thousand.
54:06>> So, I said I'm not saying they don't
54:09have to put a press they can't put a
54:10press release out. I said, "But can can
54:12they just leave my town out of it?" So
54:14my son, who was in middle school at the
54:16time, um doesn't get affected by it. Um
54:21so we said, "I'll talk to him." So we
54:22talk to the prosecutor and the
54:23prosecutor says, "Yes." Okay. We
54:28I go to California. It was I think it's
54:30September. Uh we go we do the plea
54:33agreement. We take care of it. Go back
54:36to his office. Um within an hour, I'm
54:40getting calls. They put a press release
54:41out, has my town in it, has everything.
54:43They did they they just lied again. Um I
54:47the other thing I had asked was can they
54:49like wait until I get back so kids see
54:51this I can be there,
54:52>> right?
54:53>> They they put it out right away. They
54:54put everything they said they wouldn't
54:55put in there
54:56>> and then they told my attorney, "Oh, we
54:58tried but you know couldn't we couldn't
55:00uh
55:02>> couldn't get Yeah.
55:04>> So it was just it was just shitty. I I
55:07just I
55:10regardless if I'm 100% guilty and I'm
55:13the biggest scumbag in the world, why do
55:16it to my kids? Everybody's going to know
55:17who I am. The business that I'm in, like
55:20the people that I work with are going to
55:21know it's me.
55:22>> Why do it to the kids? I don't
55:24>> I don't get that.
55:25>> Collateral damage.
55:27>> Yeah.
55:28>> Yeah. When you go to your sentencing
55:30hearing, what are you thinking?
55:34So
55:36there was a lot of stuff that happened
55:37in between. Um and I think it had a
55:42direct impact on as there's stuff with
55:44the state of Rhode Island and um that
55:47was that was more brutal than the
55:50federal as far as my family is
55:52concerned. Um
55:56I don't if you want me to go into it.
55:58I'm happy to.
55:58>> Well, you can because they were two
55:59separate cases but really the same
56:01thing.
56:01>> Yeah. So, I was charged with uh
56:04obtaining money under false pretenses
56:07um in the state. And it was a really
56:09weird case because it was somebody I
56:11didn't deal with and it was somebody
56:12that wasn't even the investor on the
56:14contract until the day of my former
56:17partner dealt with them. I went to
56:18dinner with them, emailed, talked to
56:20them. I didn't. I spoke to his lawyer.
56:24um we negotiated a a deal for um a
56:27project that we owned and um we were
56:31doing it to get paid. That's why we were
56:33doing the deal. We were doing it uh we
56:35had producer fees. We had it for a while
56:36and it was a big project so we were able
56:38to um take an advance. Basically what
56:41you do in that situation is you take an
56:44advance uh on what you're
56:47>> right. So, it's more risky for the
56:48investor because you don't know what's
56:50going to move forward, but it's um worse
56:53for the producer because you're giving
56:55away a bigger piece of something for for
56:57u later on.
56:58>> Mhm.
56:59>> So, we did that. We had no issues. 6
57:02months later, the guy had an issue. Um
57:06it was I didn't want to get into all
57:09that. It was so complicated. It was just
57:11nonsense. But there was an issue. we um
57:15were going to arbitration to fight it.
57:17My attorneys at the time told me the guy
57:19doesn't live here. He lives in like
57:22Sweden or something.
57:24>> So if you win, you're not going to
57:26collect anything from him. Um the
57:29company doesn't have any assets. Just
57:31bankrupt the company and plead to the
57:34award and then you'll be done. So we did
57:37that. We also signed a side agreement
57:39with that guy saying that we would pay
57:41him if it went forward anyway, like he'd
57:43get his money, which it was going to be
57:44forward. I had a $20 million offer, by
57:46the way,
57:46>> on that project. I had a $20 million
57:48offer in writing in email. I still have
57:51it. Um,
57:55a few months later, state police come to
57:57my house. Uh, I was taking pictures on
58:00the last day of school with the kids to
58:02arrest me. Blown away. I had no idea
58:04what was going on. Um they arrest me.
58:08That was before I got indicted for um
58:12>> on the federal side.
58:13>> Yes.
58:14>> And I had found that the federal
58:16government reached out to the state as
58:18well. They were
58:19>> kind of kind of all coordinated and
58:21helping each other through the process.
58:22Yeah.
58:23>> Yeah. So that goes on for several years.
58:27Um where it's just pre-trial.
58:30Um and eventually we get to the point
58:33where there's going to be a trial. So, I
58:35I told my attorney, "I want the trial
58:37before my federal sentencing. I want to
58:39prove to the judge that I'm innocent."
58:41>> Uh-huh.
58:42>> Um,
58:45my attorney
58:47about a month before the trial
58:49disappeared, would not respond to me,
58:51would not get back to me. The trial was
58:54on a a Monday. on Friday, my um he
59:00reached out about the federal case to
59:03ask me some questions. And then I said,
59:07"All right, can we talk about Monday,
59:09the trial?"
59:11>> So he said, "Um,
59:13yeah." He said, "Sunday, I'm working on
59:15this all day." So he said, "As of
59:17Sunday, um,
59:20we should, uh, we'll have a
59:22conversation. We'll go through all the
59:23stuff." And I was sending him stuff. I
59:25had that pro program I was telling you
59:26about before that that legal program.
59:28So, I had like deposition questions. I
59:30had everything laid out. Um,
59:34Sunday he doesn't get back to me. He
59:36doesn't call me back. Disappears. So,
59:37now I'm worried I'm going to walk into
59:39court and I'm defending
59:40>> without an attorney without
59:41representation.
59:42>> Yeah. So, I I get into court. The judge
59:46says it's going to be about a five-day
59:47trial. Um the the trial um
59:54you know we go into juror selection
59:57which lasted about a day and a half and
1:00:02the trial ends up being about two days
1:00:05>> before this. My what he ended up telling
1:00:08me what my attorney said was he said um
1:00:11we're not going to put up a defense. I
1:00:13said what do you mean? I said we have
1:00:15all this Yeah. He said they have no
1:00:18case. They have the burden. This is a
1:00:20valid strategy.
1:00:23>> Burden's on them.
1:00:24>> Yeah.
1:00:25>> If they don't prove their case, you'll
1:00:26walk out. Yeah.
1:00:27>> Right. They had there was an attorney
1:00:28that I talked to. The only person I
1:00:29talked to was the attorney. They
1:00:31couldn't get him to come in. The only
1:00:34person that came in was the alleged
1:00:35victim.
1:00:37Said, "Okay." I didn't like it. Um I
1:00:39texted people. I didn't I was very
1:00:40nervous by it. My my judge was a former
1:00:42federal prosecutor.
1:00:45Didn't like it at all. very
1:00:46uncomfortable. So the the trial was a
1:00:49day and a half. The investor got up
1:00:51there and lied. Said we spoke, said we
1:00:54emailed.
1:00:55>> I have my computer on the side of me. I
1:00:57show my attorney like this is my partner
1:01:00email is emailing me. I spoke to this
1:01:02guy, you know, give me a call.
1:01:05>> I have everything in in writing
1:01:08the um I also have a contract by the way
1:01:12with this with this person. So even what
1:01:14there was multiple levels here. Even
1:01:17what he was saying
1:01:19we had a contract for. So the charge
1:01:21didn't make sense based on the contract.
1:01:23But then he's saying that I talked to
1:01:24him which we could prove I didn't. I
1:01:26said pull my phone records. Attorney
1:01:28didn't do any of it. He he confused me
1:01:30with my apartment whose name was also
1:01:33John.
1:01:34>> Okay.
1:01:34>> Uh who we spoke to.
1:01:37Regardless of that, I still don't think
1:01:39we did anything wrong. but he confused
1:01:40me with somebody else and they use that
1:01:41and they said I spoke to him and I
1:01:43manipulated him and I I can prove that I
1:01:45didn't. It's right there in black and
1:01:47white. So the jury goes back
1:01:52come back in an hour find me guilty. I
1:01:54was I I
1:01:56>> and this is before sentencing of the uh
1:01:58Yeah.
1:01:59>> federal side and and the prosecutor in
1:02:02that
1:02:03painted me out to be
1:02:05>> a monster.
1:02:07>> Yeah. He was he did a very good job.
1:02:09Yeah,
1:02:09>> that this guy was desperate. He was
1:02:11gambling, which I was I was uh but one
1:02:14doesn't have to do with the other. I can
1:02:16gamble with my own money.
1:02:18>> So, he said he was gambling. He was
1:02:19desperate and he was he was, you know,
1:02:22lying and and
1:02:24it was he he crafted it very well. And
1:02:28my attorney was very much fat fact,
1:02:32right?
1:02:33>> In his closing argument, which they
1:02:35didn't hear any of that. They
1:02:37>> they were they're much more as you know
1:02:40the story is always better than just the
1:02:42facts.
1:02:43>> Yeah. So um that happened to everybody's
1:02:47surprise to everybody's surprise even to
1:02:50this day the judge remanded me after
1:02:52that into um the judge on record said
1:02:55there's several appellet issues with
1:02:57this case because there were a lot of he
1:02:59made some errors too. He's like but he
1:03:01>> but he immediately remands you into
1:03:03custody.
1:03:04>> Yeah. Which
1:03:06listen, we had during my trial, we had
1:03:11like a break during lunch once where he
1:03:13had a murder sentencing.
1:03:16The kid was convicted of murder and he
1:03:18let him stay out for 60 days to get his
1:03:20affairs in order. And I had been on
1:03:22pre-trial for 5 years, federal and
1:03:24state, not a single issue. I was a
1:03:26low-risisk offender, which means I'd
1:03:28write something in and he remanded me.
1:03:31And he did that because he knew that was
1:03:34the only way to make sure that I was he
1:03:37got me because
1:03:38>> How long were you in?
1:03:40>> So that was in October and I was in for
1:03:4289 days. And
1:03:44>> what's that like?
1:03:46>> So it was it was high security and it
1:03:49was um
1:03:52uh intake.
1:03:53>> So I was in the hospital for the first
1:03:55few days. Um I'm a type 1 diabetic. They
1:03:59don't understand type 1. They treat you
1:04:00like type two. I had so many issues.
1:04:02I've never passed out before. I passed
1:04:04out multiple times. Hit my head. I was
1:04:06taken to the hospital multiple times.
1:04:08They almost killed my blood sugar was
1:04:09over 600 multiple times. And the nurses,
1:04:15listen, I I have all the respect in the
1:04:17world for nurses. I love them. I go to
1:04:19the hospital. I think they're the most
1:04:20wonderful people. In there, there were
1:04:22two that were just monsters. They called
1:04:24us cockroaches. They would withhold
1:04:28insulin if they were mad at me. They
1:04:30would they they claimed you're doing all
1:04:32these things. The um
1:04:37I always thought going to prison if I
1:04:40went I would be a little concerned about
1:04:42my safety and you know other inmates and
1:04:46we were being targeted.
1:04:48Not a single issue with an inmate. The
1:04:50the cos were awful.
1:04:53>> Awful. they would call you the most
1:04:56derogatory terms just entering the
1:04:59entering the the you know the the quad
1:05:02over there. So I was there for that
1:05:04period of time. We tried to get myself
1:05:07out multiple times with medical um
1:05:10emergency bail. Um
1:05:15judge judge just wasn't having it. We
1:05:18knew that wasn't going to happen. We we
1:05:19tried to get him to overturn as a 13th
1:05:20juror. We tried to get it overturned.
1:05:22without a rule I think 16 because he he
1:05:26allowed evidence in that wasn't
1:05:28substantiated and the jury used that to
1:05:30convict me.
1:05:31>> Um
1:05:33did care. The judge said if I didn't
1:05:36spend the money so quickly,
1:05:39she would see my attorney. He would see
1:05:40my attorney's point, but I spent it too
1:05:44quickly. And my attorney said, "But
1:05:46judge, if I get paid on a Friday, I can
1:05:48spend that money on whatever I want."
1:05:50but he couldn't see that the the state
1:05:53police had the wrong bank records. They
1:05:56said I spent money on myself right away.
1:05:58I sent 45,000 to my partner. They said I
1:06:01sent it to myself. I moved it from my
1:06:04checking to the savings of the same
1:06:06business account and then I sent I wired
1:06:09money out through there. Everything was
1:06:10documented. They said they wanted
1:06:12receipts. I put up 101,000. It was it
1:06:14was $99,000. It was 100,000. I put up a
1:06:17100,000 101,000 in receipts without
1:06:19myself or my partner getting paid just
1:06:21to prove to them I had that the
1:06:22expenses. We had the deal. We had all
1:06:24the stuff in place. Nobody cared. So,
1:06:27what ended up happening was I had an
1:06:29appeal. I had an appeals attorney
1:06:31and
1:06:33I had to make a deal. Uh I was I went in
1:06:37a few days before my 11-year-old's um
1:06:409th birthday. Um she was devastated.
1:06:43They were devastated. Like I if I if I
1:06:46had expected to be remanded or even for
1:06:48the trial to end death, I would have
1:06:50prepared them for something. I didn't
1:06:51even tell them about this because I
1:06:52never expected this.
1:06:55>> Um but um I ended up making a deal to
1:06:59get out. Um which was frustrating
1:07:02because I I got out two days before
1:07:04Christmas. This is why I did it. Um I
1:07:07had to pay that guy the money back,
1:07:10which that wasn't even the biggest
1:07:12issue. I didn't have it. Um, so I had to
1:07:14borrow it. Um, but I had to pay him back
1:07:19basically pay for for my partner getting
1:07:21paid and all that stuff and I but the
1:07:24biggest thing was I had to wave my
1:07:25appellet rights. So they wouldn't let me
1:07:28out unless I wave my appellet rights
1:07:29which is you know kind of interesting
1:07:33that they do that. They they didn't want
1:07:35to lose
1:07:37their conviction. They didn't care if I
1:07:40was innocent. They did not care.
1:07:44One other part to this, the person who
1:07:47made this claim against me
1:07:50had the attorney that I spoke to, he
1:07:52sued his attorney for fraud and
1:07:54malpractice in Chicago in federal court.
1:07:58Saying his attorney did what he said I
1:08:00did. They had a settlement.
1:08:03His attorney brought in all other people
1:08:05as third party defendants.
1:08:07He didn't bring in me. my name wasn't in
1:08:10there besides saying I own the project.
1:08:12So if this attorney is at risk of losing
1:08:16his license,
1:08:17>> he's going to bring in everybody that he
1:08:19thinks had anything to do with it. He
1:08:20would have brought me in in a second.
1:08:22>> Mhm.
1:08:22>> Didn't bring me in. Why wasn't I brought
1:08:23into that? So, it's just a frustrating
1:08:26thing because that then changed the
1:08:28whole dynamic
1:08:31of everything around me with people
1:08:32because now I'm a habitual offender and
1:08:37obviously everything I said on the
1:08:38federal was a lie because obviously I
1:08:40did this.
1:08:41>> It just strengthens the narrative that
1:08:42they have out there.
1:08:43>> Yeah. But having said that and I said at
1:08:46the time
1:08:49>> I got the worst possible judge in the
1:08:51state case. I got the best possible
1:08:53judge in my federal case because what I
1:08:55was told uh by by uh a consultant who um
1:09:02has been around for a while, not one of
1:09:04the the more loud ones, but he's been
1:09:06around for a while uh out in DC.
1:09:10>> Keem is very kind and spoke to me for a
1:09:12bit and he said about my judge, he's um
1:09:15he doesn't like bullies.
1:09:17He does what he thinks is right and
1:09:19doesn't care what anybody else thinks.
1:09:21Um, and he has a a a very strong sense
1:09:26of family and obligation.
1:09:28And all of those things held true.
1:09:32>> Um, when it came to my sentencing. So,
1:09:35my sentencing got pushed a few times
1:09:37because of that.
1:09:39>> Um, and then other reasons. And then
1:09:42when we were in my sentencing after
1:09:45that, um, which was 2024, I was like
1:09:48June 2024,
1:09:51um, the government got all my records
1:09:53from the state,
1:09:56put those forward, said I was
1:09:57manipulating the system, sent in my
1:10:00healthc care records, saying, um, you
1:10:04know, I was trying to make myself sick
1:10:07to get out of prison. I'm a scam artist.
1:10:09And then they recommended originally
1:10:11they were saying like 70 something
1:10:12months. They were recommending now 87
1:10:14months. PSR still said 70, you know,
1:10:17both times.
1:10:19>> The um
1:10:22the judge went through that stuff. Um I
1:10:26rebuted it line by line
1:10:30and showed that my medical records from
1:10:32the state contradicted themselves. They
1:10:34would say something and then there'd be
1:10:36something different written. So they
1:10:37would and then they would also do things
1:10:40in pencil because they think they erase
1:10:42they would erase certain things. Um
1:10:46I was shocked because the one thing I've
1:10:47always heard about the government is
1:10:49they're very very thorough. I don't
1:10:51think they looked at any of the records.
1:10:52I think they trusted the state and that
1:10:54blew up in their face because I think
1:10:56that was one of the biggest factors for
1:10:58the judge. the judge knew I got screwed
1:11:00there and he was he was pretty pissed
1:11:03off about it and um I think that worked
1:11:06in my favor. So I got pushed a few more
1:11:08times.
1:11:10We went out there. I think in that
1:11:12October, my wife and I landed. My
1:11:14attorney texts me. He goes, "I know
1:11:16you're in the air, but they just moved
1:11:18they just moved the uh uh sentencing."
1:11:21So we couple months you go back land
1:11:25again. Same exact thing happens. so
1:11:27sorry. Soon as we landed in California
1:11:30and then we went back in February 25 and
1:11:32that was the final sentencing.
1:11:34>> What happened?
1:11:35>> I ended up getting uh 3 years um
1:11:41uh uh
1:11:43was it uh not probation pro I say
1:11:46probation but it's um
1:11:47>> supervised
1:11:48>> supervised release.
1:11:49>> Three years supervised release with um
1:11:53uh home confinement as a condition.
1:11:56>> Okay. Um, but I'm allowed out for
1:11:59anything with my kids, my wife, mental
1:12:01health, anything with them and my father
1:12:03who's been sick for a while. Um, and
1:12:06work and, um, they've been very, uh,
1:12:10very fair.
1:12:12Well, I could tell you this. Everything
1:12:14that you just said about that judge is
1:12:16what Scott I mentioned earlier when we
1:12:19were talking about the only way that you
1:12:20get justice is if you have a judge that
1:12:23is fair and and that's, you know, it's
1:12:27just the luck of the draw, man. And you
1:12:30had you had those things that he was
1:12:32looking for
1:12:34>> and also being this family guy and it
1:12:38all checked the boxes and he went with
1:12:40what he was going to do, not what they
1:12:42told him to do through their charging
1:12:44documents, which is unbelievable. And
1:12:46you know, it doesn't happen very often,
1:12:49John. I mean, I know your story, but
1:12:52even when I hear it again, it's it's
1:12:54>> it's just fascinating.
1:12:56Well, and then and then I'm not sure if
1:12:58you knew, but then they appealed it. Did
1:13:00I have
1:13:01>> No, no, I did not know that.
1:13:03>> So, no.
1:13:04>> So, they appealed the fact that you got
1:13:06the uh sentencing that you got.
1:13:08>> So, my my attorney was a
1:13:12was a prosecutor and he was telling me,
1:13:14"All right, they have two weeks before
1:13:17you're in the clear." So, but he was
1:13:19thinking when he was a prosecutor, it
1:13:21was we had two weeks to appeal. they had
1:13:2430, but he was he just he just mixed it
1:13:26up. So, I start looking and I see 30
1:13:29days a lot. So, I didn't say anything to
1:13:31him, but we get past it. Um about the
1:13:34third week, I write out. I said, "Hey,
1:13:35Michael." I said, "I think uh I looked
1:13:38and I said, "Everything's saying 30
1:13:39days." He goes, "Yeah, he beat me to it.
1:13:41I misspoke." And he explained that
1:13:43there's uh you know um is 30 days. So,
1:13:47on the 30th day, they they appeal. So,
1:13:51>> what happened with that? Did they I'm
1:13:53sure you had to go through a hearing and
1:13:54all that kind of stuff.
1:13:56>> Yeah. So, I didn't when they appealed I
1:13:58didn't tell my wife. I didn't tell
1:13:59anybody cuz I didn't want like they went
1:14:01through enough that point. Yeah.
1:14:02>> I didn't want them to have to go through
1:14:04>> You're going to live on this one your
1:14:05own.
1:14:06>> We just had great news and I'm like you
1:14:07got to be careful
1:14:08>> like again.
1:14:10>> So,
1:14:10>> it's all good. Everything's fine.
1:14:12>> Yeah. So, uh,
1:14:17they had, I think, 30 days for their
1:14:18first brief and, um, the 29th day they
1:14:23filed an extension for 90 days. Um, and
1:14:27you know, and all this is doing is
1:14:28obviously there's a fear there, but all
1:14:30this doing is just prolonging it for
1:14:34you. You're like,
1:14:35>> yeah, it's torture.
1:14:36>> Yeah. There's pride mental torture.
1:14:37There's work I can't do until this is
1:14:39done. Like, there's things I have to get
1:14:41moving forward on. Um, so
1:14:46that went on until about two or three
1:14:49days before their uh that their their um
1:14:54filing was due. And my attorney emailed
1:14:58me and and forwarded their email saying
1:15:00uh we suppose there's no objections if
1:15:03we withdraw our appeal. So I said, no, I
1:15:07think we're good. I'm not going to
1:15:08object to that.
1:15:09>> No,
1:15:10>> they did. And um I was I was very very I
1:15:14had looked up the statistic for for them
1:15:17for the government appealing case
1:15:20>> 2024 because it's not available for
1:15:222025. In 2024 the government out of like
1:15:2660,000
1:15:27uh sentencings right around there.
1:15:29>> They only appealed 21.
1:15:32>> Wow.
1:15:33>> So
1:15:34>> that is that is a number I didn't wasn't
1:15:36familiar with. That's incredible.
1:15:38>> Yeah. It's insane. So again, it made me
1:15:42think
1:15:44and there are some connections.
1:15:45>> Well, you know what's something about?
1:15:47Yeah. The crazy part of your whole this
1:15:50whole journey you've been on, you've
1:15:52gotten the harshest part of the equation
1:15:55until you got to the judge. And that's
1:15:58where you got some some realness and and
1:16:03you know, somebody that was uh didn't
1:16:05look at you u looked at you like a
1:16:08person and what's really going on here
1:16:10and and then you got the best outcome at
1:16:12that point that you get because hardly
1:16:13anybody gets that.
1:16:14>> Yeah.
1:16:15>> Um usually they max you the other way. I
1:16:17had I had probation of five years and
1:16:19got five years. But um so let's let's
1:16:23talk about now. I mean, you're in the
1:16:25midst of having really good news. Um,
1:16:28they appeal the thing and it doesn't
1:16:30happen. Um, you're unsupervised release,
1:16:33but you're living your life. You've got
1:16:34the, uh, uh, you're a partner in Dial 9
1:16:37Entertainment. What's What's going on in
1:16:39your world now, John?
1:16:42[snorts]
1:16:42>> So, um, you know, I've I've been doing
1:16:45>> you survived a war. [laughter]
1:16:49>> I've, uh, I've I've, you know, I think
1:16:52it's real easy. I get frustrated with my
1:16:55my wife and kids sometimes about this,
1:16:57you know, and listen, they're just
1:16:58they're not they're just living their
1:17:00life. They they didn't My wife dealt
1:17:02with a tremendous amount. My kids, we
1:17:05kept out mostly, but
1:17:07>> um I get frustrated and it's it's you
1:17:09know, we all deal with this differently
1:17:11because I I'm like we went through
1:17:13something that was so it was just a a
1:17:16bad experience all around. It was
1:17:18traumatizing for a lot of people.
1:17:20>> Yeah.
1:17:20>> Different ways. And
1:17:24we are blessed. We got the the the the
1:17:26best possible outcome you can imagine.
1:17:29Um
1:17:31so like when when things happen, we get
1:17:34frustrated about these little things. A
1:17:36lot of times I can step back and say,
1:17:37you know what, it happened. It happened
1:17:39um about a week ago. I had uh reached
1:17:41out to Jeff. I forget what it was.
1:17:43Somebody somebody said some Oh, somebody
1:17:46did a podcast about me and they just
1:17:48said I didn't own anything and they they
1:17:50just, you know,
1:17:50>> Yeah. said a bunch of stuff that wasn't
1:17:52even remotely true. And I sent it to
1:17:54Jeff and I'm like, you know, I I ranted
1:17:57a little bit and then the next day I
1:17:58texted him. I said,
1:17:59>> "This is Jeff Grant, the founder of the
1:18:01White Color Support Group you're talking
1:18:02about."
1:18:03>> And it is great. So, um, and I wrote
1:18:06back the next day, I said, "You know
1:18:08what? Sometimes I rant about these
1:18:10things and I step back and say, I could
1:18:12be in jail right now."
1:18:14>> Right? And if somebody came to me and
1:18:15said,
1:18:16>> "You have the choice to go to jail for
1:18:18three years or have 50 podcasts
1:18:22disparaging you, put out, what will you
1:18:24do?"
1:18:24>> I wouldn't even think twice. I wouldn't
1:18:26even blink. I would just say podcast do
1:18:28100. I don't care.
1:18:29>> Yeah.
1:18:30>> Like you you get in a situation that's
1:18:32good and then that happens. It's gets
1:18:33frustrating, but it's just perspective.
1:18:35You're not going to change everybody.
1:18:36>> It's definitely perspective. and and you
1:18:39know I I would assume that John in your
1:18:42business you know world the world you're
1:18:44in um it's all creative talent and um if
1:18:49you can bring things to the table I'm
1:18:51sure that um which the experience that
1:18:55you have is in a chapter of your life
1:18:57it's not your whole life and and you
1:18:59know you've you've done some great work
1:19:02um in the film world and I would think
1:19:05that that would be because It's
1:19:08it's not Wall Street. It's artistry and
1:19:11and movies and film. I I would I would
1:19:14think that you would have
1:19:18possibly a path back because there's a
1:19:21lot of different people in Hollywood
1:19:23have things happen to them.
1:19:25>> There's a lot of people with a hell of a
1:19:27lot worse things that they've done uh
1:19:31legitimately have done. And
1:19:33>> there's a lot of people that have done a
1:19:35lot of bad things that people know about
1:19:36and they continue to go on and work.
1:19:38>> Yeah.
1:19:39>> Um
1:19:40part, you know, for me, um it was
1:19:44important to
1:19:46get I said I'm not going to change I'm
1:19:49not going to remove the government press
1:19:51releases. I'm not, you know, when I got
1:19:53my sentence, they didn't they didn't put
1:19:54a press release out about that.
1:19:56>> Why? if they're being fair and is just
1:19:58reporting news when they put the press
1:20:00release out about my sentence. No,
1:20:02because it didn't look good for them,
1:20:04>> right? Not on their side, right?
1:20:05>> No. So, you know, that's that stuff is
1:20:08what it is. Um,
1:20:10you know, I work in although I'm in a
1:20:12creative business, I work in the
1:20:14business end of it. Um, uh, a lot of
1:20:18times the financial end, not just I
1:20:20raised money in the past, but like, um,
1:20:23planning like how money is going to be
1:20:25spent. um putting the actual package
1:20:29together. This is what we need here,
1:20:30here, here, or here.
1:20:31>> So, I won't raise money. I don't want to
1:20:33deal with it. I don't want to do any of
1:20:35that. Um I could I could ask to do it
1:20:37for my uh probation officer if I wanted
1:20:41to, but I have no interest in raising
1:20:42money. I never like raising money, but I
1:20:44do um make sure people stay on schedule.
1:20:48So, what I've done, and I did it
1:20:49throughout this to make it easy because
1:20:51I I don't want to be on bank accounts.
1:20:53So, I just need reports. I need to know
1:20:55the plan. I need to help create the plan
1:20:57and then when we're making a movie, I
1:21:00get reports and I can see where the
1:21:01spending is and I can determine what's
1:21:04where we're spending too much, where we
1:21:05got to cut back.
1:21:07>> So, you just categorize everything that
1:21:09has to happen in the film and make sure
1:21:10that they have the money to make it
1:21:12happen as it goes through so that they
1:21:14don't not have any money at the end. I
1:21:15get it.
1:21:16>> Yeah. And there's people that I worked
1:21:17with that I worked with before and
1:21:18there's people that I started working
1:21:19with afterwards
1:21:20>> that like me and trust me and I
1:21:24>> everything I did was on my reputation in
1:21:26the business. So it was a a big hit when
1:21:28it
1:21:28>> when this happened.
1:21:30>> Oh, for sure.
1:21:31>> And I was somebody that was
1:21:33>> so focused on what other people thought.
1:21:36>> And so that's one of the other good
1:21:37things I think about this. It was such a
1:21:39rational um fear of what other people
1:21:42think that when this happened.
1:21:44>> Yeah. You hit the rock bottom, you got
1:21:46to step back up and it doesn't You don't
1:21:48have to worry about that anymore.
1:21:50[laughter]
1:21:51>> What can you do here? This This is
1:21:52>> Yeah. I I remember when I I I had a lot
1:21:55of money and I, you know, I thought,
1:21:56gosh, what if what if I lost it all? And
1:21:58then you you know, when you do lose it
1:22:00all, well, you don't have to worry about
1:22:01that anymore. No more of that fear.
1:22:03>> I'm gonna worry about something else.
1:22:06Right. [laughter] So I, you know, can I
1:22:08have there's some things I'm working on
1:22:11um in this in this realm, you know, and
1:22:15and I I think I told you this. Well, I
1:22:16want to talk to you about that at some
1:22:18point. Um
1:22:20of getting attention to a lot of this
1:22:22stuff. Um one of the things when I was
1:22:25at the state, um that I that I quickly
1:22:27realized was
1:22:30there was so many kids there
1:22:32>> that
1:22:33>> a lot of them were guilty. Mhm.
1:22:36>> But they were there for so much worse
1:22:38than they did.
1:22:39>> They were way
1:22:40>> overcharged.
1:22:42>> Yeah. And other people, maybe they were,
1:22:43maybe they weren't. Who knows? But the
1:22:46one thing that was consistent was
1:22:49regardless of the situation, they they
1:22:51most people were overcharged, taken
1:22:53advantage of, leveraged into the
1:22:55situation that they were in. And um
1:22:59you know, that's that's hard. And I I
1:23:02there's so many elements that people
1:23:03don't see. The behind the scenes stuff,
1:23:05the family stuff, how they're affected.
1:23:08Um you know, people think on the white
1:23:10collar end, they just think, "Oh, rich,
1:23:12rich asshole." That's usually what they
1:23:15think. Um but until it happens to you,
1:23:20people don't really understand that it's
1:23:22not just that, there's so many other
1:23:25pieces to it and things. And I wish
1:23:28there was I wish there was a better um
1:23:31system in place
1:23:34to keep people accountable,
1:23:37but to focus on the people that get
1:23:39hurt.
1:23:40>> Um destroying somebody's life so they
1:23:42can't work again and and they can't make
1:23:44money when there are victims involved
1:23:46makes no sense. I don't think the
1:23:48victims want that.
1:23:50>> You can very easily they monitor
1:23:51everything. they can very easily monitor
1:23:53you and every dime that you make and if
1:23:55you can make good money, you can pay
1:23:56people back.
1:23:57>> Mhm.
1:23:58>> Why not do that instead of
1:24:01>> destruction,
1:24:02>> get the head headlines and jail time and
1:24:04it just doesn't make,
1:24:06>> you know, doesn't make a lot of sense.
1:24:07And I I wish there was a better way and
1:24:09I hope there is. And
1:24:11>> well, I mean, it's it's it's one of
1:24:12those things, John, where um
1:24:16the
1:24:18re-entering society after something
1:24:21happens to you like this and it's made
1:24:22so public, uh you know, people have
1:24:26trouble with housing
1:24:28>> um because you've got to put down, you
1:24:30know, a lot of times it's it's legal to
1:24:32discriminate against you. So, that's the
1:24:34really bad part of it. It's really
1:24:36actually legal to discriminate. It's
1:24:37it's it's legal to not give you a job
1:24:41because of your record. It's legal to
1:24:44debank to debank you. It's legal for
1:24:46them to just say that we don't want you.
1:24:48You we don't like what happened to you,
1:24:51so you can't bank here.
1:24:53And you know, the community part of it
1:24:55is is that you you have this situation
1:24:58where you have the, you know, the
1:24:59scarlet letter F on your head and you
1:25:01have to figure out how to live with that
1:25:04and um own a story so that you can be
1:25:08somebody again and not be hiding in a
1:25:11corner. So all those different things
1:25:13are a lot of moving parts
1:25:15>> and
1:25:17they're stacked to where what you're
1:25:19talking about is we don't necessarily
1:25:21have to destroy somebody when they get
1:25:25out and then just push them back. Um you
1:25:28know if you can't get housing and you
1:25:29end up in the worst part of town that's
1:25:32bad and you know you're in the worst
1:25:34part of town and and how do you get out
1:25:35of that? So, it's there's so many pieces
1:25:38to it, but there are ways I think that
1:25:41it could if if people were more aware of
1:25:44it that people would want to make it
1:25:46better because um it's broken,
1:25:49>> systems broken,
1:25:50>> process is broken,
1:25:52>> but because it's broken, there are
1:25:54things that people can do to fix it if
1:25:56people know more about it. I just don't
1:25:57think enough people know about how bad
1:25:59things can get
1:26:00>> when somebody has to go through a system
1:26:03that uh basically
1:26:06strips you down to, you know, your rock
1:26:08bottom moment and then you have to try
1:26:10to get back and that's it's a tough
1:26:12thing.
1:26:14>> But going through all that, John, what
1:26:16do you think's your biggest takeaway
1:26:17through all this that you've
1:26:18experienced?
1:26:21>> I think um
1:26:26I've learned a whole heck of a lot,
1:26:29that's for sure. Um
1:26:31I think
1:26:34um in business I took away that
1:26:39um
1:26:40just to document stuff uh I didn't
1:26:43document a lot of things even
1:26:44conversations just following up with a
1:26:47conversation hey based on this
1:26:48conversation little stuff like that
1:26:50which could have helped me tremendously
1:26:52I think in my personal life um like I
1:26:57said it some of it sucks because you you
1:26:59realize as some people just turn their
1:27:00back on you and family some family um
1:27:04the way some people act is is uh
1:27:06difficult because um it's just hurtful
1:27:10um you know and they're looking from
1:27:12their perspective and you're looking
1:27:13from yours but I think um you know you
1:27:17learn who the people that really care
1:27:19about you are
1:27:20>> and um I think the biggest takeaway in
1:27:24all of it and I I think I throughout
1:27:27this whole thing I get I would tell my
1:27:29wife all the time. I'm not going to let
1:27:30that make me like them cuz there's a lot
1:27:34of things I wanted to say or do and be
1:27:36more,
1:27:38you know, angry at at, you know, when
1:27:41speaking about it. But I said, I'm not
1:27:43going to let I'm not going to do what
1:27:44they do. I'm not going to be them. Um,
1:27:48but I think I and I would always say it
1:27:52I have my wife who stood by me through
1:27:55all of this and she went through a lot.
1:27:58>> Um, like and people don't see the little
1:28:01things that are involved in the
1:28:02community that she's affected by. Um,
1:28:05you know, she has her business, she's a
1:28:07photographer. Luckily, her business has
1:28:09done well, but um you know,
1:28:13she's gone through a lot and then the
1:28:15things your kids go through. But I've
1:28:16said if I have them behind me, then
1:28:21hopefully I have other people that are.
1:28:23But if I don't, as long as I have them,
1:28:24that's that's my world. So,
1:28:27>> that's the strong takeaway. You find out
1:28:29who the people are that are with you.
1:28:31And if you got your family, that's a lot
1:28:33of everything.
1:28:34>> Oh, yeah.
1:28:34>> That's it's a big deal.
1:28:36>> It is. It is. I I've I've I've second
1:28:39that. Uh wow, what a what a thing, John,
1:28:45that you experienced. And then to have
1:28:47all that ugliness and end up with a fair
1:28:51judge is incredible that that all
1:28:54happened the way it did.
1:28:55>> Incredibly I I I I want to write a
1:28:57letter to him, but I can't until I think
1:28:59I'm off. But my wife said it, too. He
1:29:01just I
1:29:03I can't explain. Again, I've never been
1:29:06in this situation before, but when I'm
1:29:08giving my allocution and speaking to
1:29:10him,
1:29:13my wife said it, too. He just
1:29:16had like kind eyes. He looked like he
1:29:18actually cared about me as a person.
1:29:20>> Mhm.
1:29:20>> And like I'm just
1:29:23>> I I will And it's not He could have done
1:29:26that and given me a year.
1:29:27>> Yeah. you know, because as you know,
1:29:30they get what they get. And
1:29:31>> he already know you'd been through hell.
1:29:33>> Yeah. So, he could have done a lot and I
1:29:34still would have been grateful to him,
1:29:35but he just he I I feel like he really
1:29:38took me and my family into account,
1:29:42which they say that they're supposed to,
1:29:45but so many don't.
1:29:46>> It happens.
1:29:47>> Yeah. and and um that was as a matter of
1:29:51fact one there was one particular
1:29:53investor that was at the at my
1:29:55sentencing
1:29:56>> that as I got up to get my allocution he
1:29:59started to record me and the judge
1:30:02caught him and was pissed and said if
1:30:05you do that again you're out of here and
1:30:07um I don't know if that had anything to
1:30:10do with anything but um he just he was
1:30:13very just what the guy said he was he
1:30:16was fair
1:30:18>> was he did what he thought was right and
1:30:19didn't really care what anybody else
1:30:21>> didn't let anybody pressure him.
1:30:22>> Yeah. So
1:30:23>> yeah, it's huge. Huge. Well, speaking
1:30:25about gratitude, I I love the fact that
1:30:28Homestead Financial Home Mortgage lets
1:30:30me use this podcast studio. Um if you've
1:30:33got home mortgage needs out there, Greg
1:30:35Afdav, he's your guy. He knows it all.
1:30:38Um if you're looking for a book, uh get
1:30:42it. It's nightmare, success, loyalty,
1:30:44betrayal, life behind bars, adapting,
1:30:45finally breaking free. Uh, it's the
1:30:48story of my world. And um, if you want
1:30:51to know anything about me, go to brick
1:30:53cassy.com. I spell it wrong. I spell it
1:30:55with a ty, not a dy. And if you want to
1:30:57see all the episodes, you know, you can
1:31:00see it on all the platforms, but you can
1:31:01also go to nightmaresuccess.com
1:31:04to get a little bit further background.
1:31:07And as I used to say to my people when I
1:31:09was writing my emails back and forth
1:31:11from Levworth, stay strong. I'll do the
1:31:13same. John, man, I appreciate you coming
1:31:15on, sharing your story. And you got it,
1:31:18man. You made it to the other side and
1:31:19you survived and I think you're going to
1:31:21go on and do some things that uh we're
1:31:23going to be reading more about all the
1:31:25stuff that you do and and uh this is
1:31:28just a chapter.
1:31:29>> Yeah, I appreciate it, Brent. Thank you
1:31:31for having me on. I appreciate the
1:31:32opportunity.
1:31:34>> All right, folks. Nightmare success in
1:31:36and out.

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