From CEO to CFO: Rethinking Finance Leadership - Filip Dewaele, CFO Dewaele — Transcript

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1. 0:03brought to you by Robert Walters, your
2. 0:05global talent solutions provider.
3. 0:10Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a new
4. 0:13episode of the Schivel podcast.
5. 0:15De Wale Real Estate is currently one of
6. 0:17the best-known real estate groups in
7. 0:19Flanders.
8. 0:20A company active in real estate
9. 0:22brokerage, management, advisory, and
10. 0:24digital solutions for the real estate
11. 0:27market.
12. 0:28But this conversation is not just about
13. 0:30real estate.
14. 0:31It is about finance leadership.
15. 0:33Because Filip De Wale has not followed a
16. 0:36classic CFO path.
17. 0:39Filip was CEO of the company, also views
18. 0:41the group as a shareholder, and today
19. 0:44takes on the CFO role from a broad
20. 0:46entrepreneurial and executive background
21. 0:48.
22. 0:50The central question of this
23. 0:52conversation is therefore: how does a
24. 0:54CFO without a classic CFO background
25. 0:56still take on strategic finance
26. 0:58leadership?
27. 1:00This is the CFO podcast with Filip De
28. 1:03Wale.
29. 1:08>> Filip, welcome to our studios. Welcome
30. 1:11to Antwerp. It gives me great pleasure
31. 1:12to record this conversation with you.
32. 1:14But I always start with the floor
33. 1:16question. Filip, who is Filip? What is
34. 1:18your story?
35. 1:19>> Uh, yes, I am Filip De Wale, obviously,
36. 1:23still 3 years shy of sixty, so I am 57
37. 1:26years old. You can't tell at all.
38. 1:29There you go. I have been married to
39. 1:31Joelle for ages.
40. 1:33Uh
41. 1:33>> Proud Bruggeling.
42. 1:35>> Uh, proud dad of young adult daughters.
43. 1:38Three daughters.
44. 1:39>> It worked.
45. 1:40>> Yes, thank you very much. And, uh, well
46. 1:43, by training I studied economics in
47. 1:45Leuven.
48. 1:47Uh, slight preference for macroeconomics
49. 1:50and, uh, yes, started with my father in
50. 1:53'93 as a real estate agent. Yes.
51. 1:56>> Um, and then gradually grew through all
52. 1:59facets of the company, grew along with
53. 2:01the company, shall we say, up to CEO and
54. 2:04then CFO again.
55. 2:05>> Yes. And that is the reason why I wanted
56. 2:07to have this conversation, right?
57. 2:09>> As you just said, you have been CEO
58. 2:12>> and now you are CFO.
59. 2:14That is an amazing transition. How did
60. 2:16you experience that, actually?
61. 2:18>> Yes, I can imagine that that might not
62. 2:20be the classic path or, uh
63. 2:21>> No, I usually see it the other way
64. 2:23around, from CFO to CEO.
65. 2:24>> Yes. Yes. Um, yes, for me, that has
66. 2:27actually always felt very natural.
67. 2:31Um, but, well, I became CFO, uh, due to
68. 2:34the growth of the firm and I am the only
69. 2:36one named De Wale after my father, after
70. 2:39he passed away.
71. 2:42>> Um, but, uh, actually the principle is
72. 2:44that we believe enormously in temporary
73. 2:47leadership within the firm. And
74. 2:49>> temporary leadership.
75. 2:50>> Yes.
76. 2:51>> What does, what do you mean by that?
77. 2:53Well, we were inspired a bit by someone
78. 2:55, by Jan De Laar on our advisory board
79. 2:58at De Wale.
80. 2:58>> And um, what is actually the principle?
81. 3:01As a leader, as a CEO, you give the best
82. 3:03of yourself.
83. 3:04>> Yes.
84. 3:05>> Throughout the entire period.
85. 3:07>> And if you have done that well, then
86. 3:08after x number of years, you have turned
87. 3:10that company into a completely different
88. 3:12company.
89. 3:12>> That's right.
90. 3:13>> Um, then you also have to ask yourself
91. 3:15the question, are you still the are you
92. 3:17still the right person to actually take
93. 3:19the company to the next growth phase?
94. 3:20Yes, so that self-reflection, or
95. 3:22reflection as a group, whichever you
96. 3:24prefer, um, you have to do that. Yes.
97. 3:27And six years ago, I came to the
98. 3:29conclusion that I was no longer the
99. 3:31right person to take those eh next steps
100. 3:33with the company.
101. 3:34>> Fortunately, there was a fantastic lady
102. 3:36walking beside me, Sofie Spriet, our
103. 3:38current CEO. And we were able to hand
104. 3:41over the CEO key with a lot of
105. 3:42confidence six years ago.
106. 3:44>> Okay.
107. 3:44>> Yes.
108. 3:46And then the second element of that
109. 3:47temporary leadership is that you
110. 3:49naturally have to ensure that you have a
111. 3:51job after you have been a leader, so to
112. 3:53speak.
113. 3:55>> And uh so you have to keep maintaining
114. 3:57your competencies. And for me, it was a
115. 3:59bit more in my DNA, the financial side,
116. 4:01and I actually went back to my old love
117. 4:04. Uh, the CFO position.
118. 4:05>> Yes. Yes. Okay. Now, from CEO to CFO is
119. 4:09, as I just said, quite a transition.
120. 4:13It is not easy.
121. 4:15And I can well imagine that you have to
122. 4:17learn quite a few things, but above all
123. 4:19, let go.
124. 4:21>> As uh as CFO or as uh CEO.
125. 4:23>> As in, from CEO to CFO.
126. 4:25>> Yes, it is, um, yes, you must of course
127. 4:28ensure that you do not remain a shadow
128. 4:31CEO. Yes,
129. 4:32>> but if you have a strong CEO, they won't
130. 4:34allow that anyway. Like uh in our in the
131. 4:36case of Sofie and me.
132. 4:38>> Obviously, there is a huge uh
133. 4:40interaction between a CEO and a CFO.
134. 4:43>> That's right.
135. 4:44>> Um, what is perhaps the
136. 4:48I think for CEO's, for CFO's, sorry, it
137. 4:50is important that you connect
138. 4:52sufficiently with the business.
139. 4:54>> Yes,
140. 4:55>> I naturally grew from within the
141. 4:56business, from the CEO position, right?
142. 4:59So I know, uh, well, that is an extreme
143. 5:01advantage, I think, if you look at the
144. 5:04job purely as a CFO, that you at least
145. 5:06>> know that business through and through.
146. 5:08I think there are also some pitfalls. Um
147. 5:10, yes, I am of course not a classically
148. 5:13trained CFO.
149. 5:15Much has been learned from good old
150. 5:16common sense. I think we have also found
151. 5:19the right format a few times.
152. 5:22Um, so yes, there are certainly pitfalls
153. 5:24where we think we probably didn't bring
154. 5:26in enough expertise and learned it
155. 5:28ourselves.
156. 5:30>> Yes, I understand that. Now, you just
157. 5:33mentioned that Sofie is obviously a very
158. 5:35, very good CEO now.
159. 5:38Rather, what did you have to let go of
160. 5:40during the transition?
161. 5:42Uh,
162. 5:42>> because, yes,
163. 5:43>> your brain is programmed to have been
164. 5:45the CEO.
165. 5:47Yes, to a
166. 5:49certain degree, let go. What were those
167. 5:51for you?
168. 5:52>> Yes, I think it's largely about
169. 5:53communication. Uh, both internal
170. 5:55communication. You have to, yes, no
171. 5:57longer stand on the stage, right? There
172. 5:59is someone else standing on the stage.
173. 6:01>> So you have to, well, uh
174. 6:03>> in itself, I don't have much trouble
175. 6:05letting that go, I think, but I do think
176. 6:07it would be a pitfall, right?
177. 6:09>> Also towards the outside world. How do
178. 6:11you handle external communication? Uh,
179. 6:13there, Sofie and I clearly made a, uh,
180. 6:16distinction between, uh, yes, Sofie does
181. 6:18all the communication regarding the
182. 6:21company itself.
183. 6:22>> Yes.
184. 6:23>> Uh, I do the communication that has more
185. 6:25to do with the real estate expertise as
186. 6:28, uh, experts and now, for once, as CFO
187. 6:30. Yes. Uh, so, well, you have to make
188. 6:33good agreements about that.
189. 6:36Um, I think that would be a bit of a
190. 6:37challenge for CEOs who like to be on
191. 6:39stage and like to have the last word.
192. 6:43>> That it would be. Let's double-click on
193. 6:44the real estate side for a moment. Good
194. 6:46. What, what do you actually do? What is
195. 6:49the, what is the business model?
196. 6:51>> Yes, we have since evolved into a group
197. 6:54of about fifty offices in all Flemish
198. 6:56provinces and Brussels.
199. 6:59Uh, 300 men and women strong. All
200. 7:02fantastic employees. Mm-hmm.
201. 7:04>> Um, and let's say that a large part of
202. 7:06our turnover is classic real estate
203. 7:08brokerage. Let's say the sales and
204. 7:10rentals
205. 7:11>> is just core business, actually.
206. 7:12>> Core business.
207. 7:14Um, but where we...and we do that in
208. 7:16both residential and commercial real
209. 7:19estate.
210. 7:20Um, that's what everyone sees, of course
211. 7:23, but we have a large part of our
212. 7:25business that consists of related
213. 7:26services in real estate. But if I may
214. 7:29name three.
215. 7:29>> Yes, please.
216. 7:31>> Uh, then, for example, 8 years ago we
217. 7:33developed a service for the
218. 7:35do-it-yourselfer.
219. 7:37If you want to sell your home yourself,
220. 7:39without a broker, you can call on some
221. 7:41of our services. Completely free. That's
222. 7:44called Dealen do it yourself.
223. 7:46There is an online auction system
224. 7:48attached to it.
225. 7:49Uh, why did we do that? Uh, on one hand
226. 7:51, to gain experience with digital
227. 7:53products. Secondly, a part of the market
228. 7:56doesn't reach the broker. Those were the
229. 7:58drivers, I think. Two other initiatives
230. 8:00on the sidelines are two joint ventures
231. 8:02we have.
232. 8:03On one hand, with insurance brokerage
233. 8:06group Casier, we have a joint venture,
234. 8:08Siguru, where we combine our expertise
235. 8:10to create insurance policies for the
236. 8:12real estate sector. Okay.
237. 8:15We have our own policy for apartment
238. 8:17buildings, a policy for tenants that we
239. 8:19have them sign digitally to completely
240. 8:21unburden the tenant.
241. 8:24Our latest joint venture that we are
242. 8:26very happy with in Super 4 is our joint
243. 8:28venture Partalis.
244. 8:29That is a 50/50 joint venture with Bank
245. 8:32van Breda.
246. 8:32>> Okay.
247. 8:35With which we actually provide real
248. 8:38estate advice to wealthy clients,
249. 8:40conduct real estate portfolio analyses,
250. 8:42and an important branch is actually the
251. 8:44transfer of real estate patrimony
252. 8:46companies, which requires very specific
253. 8:48know-how.
254. 8:52>> You are not just CFO, you are also a
255. 8:54shareholder and chairman of the board of
256. 8:57directors, if I'm not mistaken.
257. 9:00That's correct.
258. 9:01>> That is a lot of roles. How do you keep
259. 9:03those roles separate from each other?
260. 9:06>> Yes, that is of course entirely in
261. 9:08accordance with corporate governance.
262. 9:11Uh, I think I will need to reread the
263. 9:13book by Baron Buysse.
264. 9:15>> Yes. Yes.
265. 9:17>> It is, of course, from the context of a
266. 9:19family organization and growth.
267. 9:21>> Hm.
268. 9:22>> As a small business, you are everything
269. 9:24, right?
270. 9:25>> That is true.
271. 9:27>> You have to let everything go a little
272. 9:28bit.
273. 9:29And that will likely remain the case in
274. 9:31the future with the partnership.
275. 9:33Today, we obviously combine that.
276. 9:37And I think for myself that I don't have
277. 9:38that much trouble with it.
278. 9:41As a CFO, you are in the middle of an
279. 9:43executive committee, right?
280. 9:46We naturally take care of the daily
281. 9:48management and leadership.
282. 9:51We keep each other in balance.
283. 9:54We carry out a strategy within our
284. 9:56financial capabilities, of course, when
285. 9:59we have the general meeting or advisory
286. 10:01board, yes, we indeed put on a different
287. 10:03hat.
288. 10:06The hat story is very prevalent for us
289. 10:08because our partners—we are a
290. 10:10partnership structure—they all wear
291. 10:12different hats. They have an operational
292. 10:14role
293. 10:14>> and a partner role. So in those meetings
294. 10:17, we really say, "Guys, it's the
295. 10:19partner's hat."
296. 10:20>> It is explicitly stated, as it were.
297. 10:22>> That is always our first slide of every
298. 10:24meeting. Great.
299. 10:25>> Putting on the other hat.
300. 10:26>> Yes.
301. 10:27>> So, break free from your daily task. And
302. 10:30now you are a partner of the whole group
303. 10:31.
304. 10:32>> Yes.
305. 10:33>> And naturally, in the shareholder
306. 10:35meetings and the advisory boards, we
307. 10:37look more at the long term and approve
308. 10:39the strategy.
309. 10:40>> Yes.
310. 10:41Decisions with a very significant
311. 10:43financial impact are also decided there
312. 10:45, of course, and we are primarily
313. 10:47focused on value creation within the
314. 10:49group.
315. 10:51So, all the margins that we create, we
316. 10:53reinvest back into the group.
317. 10:56It is important that there is
318. 10:57transparent communication about this
319. 10:59between the partners. So, we are focused
320. 11:01on that. For example, we have no
321. 11:03dividend policy in the group. So, value
322. 11:06creation is super important. The growth
323. 11:09story. That is where we are heading.
324. 11:11>> Yes. Okay, that is clear. And to come
325. 11:13back to the question of how do you keep
326. 11:15those roles distinct? I find it
327. 11:16interesting that you have, as it were, a
328. 11:19very clear way to physically signal it
329. 11:21to each other. We are now in a different
330. 11:23setup, so we put on a different hat.
331. 11:25>> Yes.
332. 11:27>> But you, as CFO, must also play
333. 11:29different roles in those three areas.
334. 11:32How do you do that for yourself?
335. 11:35Yes, my main role remains the
336. 11:36operational one, the CFO position. You
337. 11:39are in the business all day long. The
338. 11:41moment we have our advisory board or
339. 11:43board of directors meeting, you are
340. 11:45pulled away from that entirely. And
341. 11:47actually, it happens in a somewhat
342. 11:49natural way. I have never known it any
343. 11:51other way. So...
344. 11:52>> I can imagine not doing it.
345. 11:56If I were to take a next step or join
346. 11:57another firm, then it would be much more
347. 12:00difficult.
348. 12:01It is a natural evolution, I think. Yes
349. 12:03.
350. 12:04>> But it is a point of attention.
351. 12:05>> Yes.
352. 12:07>> And I think if we were to have this
353. 12:08interview again in a few years, I
354. 12:10probably won't be sitting here as CFO.
355. 12:13>> Yes.
356. 12:14>> That...
357. 12:14>> Probably chairman of the board of
358. 12:16directors, and that will be it.
359. 12:17>> I hope I can do that for a long time.
360. 12:20Thank you. Filip, we will take a break
361. 12:22shortly, and I am very curious about
362. 12:24part two of our conversation. Ladies and
363. 12:27gentlemen, we are taking a very short
364. 12:29break, and soon we will continue with
365. 12:31our conversation with Philip de Walen.
366. 12:33CFO of de Walen Real Estate.
367. 12:36Being a CFO can be lonely, not because
368. 12:39you are alone, but because the decisions
369. 12:41you face are often complex, sensitive,
370. 12:44and difficult to discuss openly.
371. 12:48That is why we created the CFO network,
372. 12:50a trusted community for CFOs and finance
373. 12:53leaders who want to meet the right
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376. 13:02Not more noise, just a better room for
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380. 13:10Join the CFO network for free at
381. 13:12cavios.be. B.
382. 13:19>> In the second part of this conversation
383. 13:21, we are going to the next layer. Filip
384. 13:23, welcome back. Uh, before the break, we
385. 13:26were naturally talking about the role,
386. 13:28of course, the transition, and the
387. 13:30various roles that you obviously, uh,
388. 13:33accumulate.
389. 13:34Now, you naturally have Sophie, who is
390. 13:36the CEO, and you have a certain dynamic
391. 13:39there, of course. And so, I assume that
392. 13:42you have a certain type of relationship
393. 13:44.
394. 13:45That, yes, in her role as CEO, she, um,
395. 13:48manages you in a certain way as CFO, and
396. 13:50that dynamic also ensures that you are,
397. 13:53uh, very well aligned with each other,
398. 13:56right?
399. 13:58>> That's correct. It is a, um, I always
400. 14:00put it this way: I was a CEO once. I sat
401. 14:03in the front of the tandem, then in the
402. 14:05back. And four years ago, we switched
403. 14:07roles.
404. 14:08>> She now holds the steering wheel firmly
405. 14:10and sets the direction,
406. 14:12>> naturally. We are also super
407. 14:14complementary. That is, of course, very
408. 14:16important, and we have 100%trust in each
409. 14:19other. Um, but also, for her—and it was
410. 14:21the same in my time—because of our
411. 14:23consultative culture. Um, yes, as CEO,
412. 14:25you don't just do whatever you want in
413. 14:28our organization.
414. 14:30You have to create broad support.
415. 14:32Um.
416. 14:33>> Yes, it is truly a service sector with,
417. 14:36uh, people. Our employees know very well
418. 14:38what they want, uh, but keeping everyone
419. 14:40pointed in the same direction is key. I
420. 14:42think that, uh, for the CEO, that is
421. 14:44very important in our organization and
422. 14:46service sector. Yes, we don't have
423. 14:48little machines. Uh, we have to rely on
424. 14:50our people.
425. 14:51>> Exactly. Exactly.
426. 14:52>> Hm.
427. 14:53>> How do you actually manage this as a
428. 14:55company? I count on the business model.
429. 14:57What are the KPIs that are important for
430. 15:00you to, yes, uh, manage daily, weekly,
431. 15:02monthly, or quarterly?
432. 15:04>> Uh, to manage?
433. 15:06>> We, um, my day actually begins in the
434. 15:08morning by saying good day to my
435. 15:10colleagues at the second job.
436. 15:13Uh.
437. 15:13>> Important.
438. 15:14>> Yes, is standard, looking at, uh, at
439. 15:17three figures. Um, how much did we
440. 15:19invoice yesterday?
441. 15:21How much did we sell yesterday?
442. 15:23And how many orders came in yesterday?
443. 15:25So very sales-driven. So it really is a
444. 15:27sales organization.
445. 15:29>> Yes. Yes. But why is it so important?
446. 15:31Obviously, uh, yes, if you invoice
447. 15:33enough, that is your barometer for
448. 15:35whether you can pay your costs,
449. 15:37naturally. Um, if we sell enough, we
450. 15:39know we will be able to invoice, because
451. 15:41there is a period in between, right?
452. 15:44Between a sale, well, a compromise you
453. 15:46sign and the invoice at the notary, for
454. 15:49example, 3 or 4 months. So, yes, you
455. 15:51have to ensure the business keeps
456. 15:53running and, of course, the assignments
457. 15:56we get ensure tomorrow's revenue.
458. 15:58>> Correct.
459. 15:58>> Um, so simply with those three simple
460. 16:01figures, you can already manage a great
461. 16:03deal, of course. Behind every single
462. 16:05figure lies an entire system. Um.
463. 16:09>> Our billing, um, reporting.
464. 16:12We work with, with, yes, Bright
465. 16:14Analytics. A bit confusing, Bright.
466. 16:16>> Not at all. I know them very well too.
467. 16:19>> Okay. Yes, our controller still calls it
468. 16:21Brecht, so I often say "Bright" to
469. 16:23Brecht. So, quite a lot of situations.
470. 16:25>> Um, but it is a good reporting system to
471. 16:28actually see on a day-to-day basis where
472. 16:30the group stands across the companies,
473. 16:32and so on.
474. 16:33You can go into real depth, as I think
475. 16:36all CFOs do. So that is good. The second
476. 16:39is our, um, yes, we call that our
477. 16:41operational reporting.
478. 16:44That is linked to our CRM package. Our
479. 16:46registered CRM package, in which we can
480. 16:48really follow up very well on a
481. 16:50day-to-day basis. Yes, which deals have
482. 16:53we done? Um, what is in the pipeline? Um
483. 16:55, what is coming in?
484. 16:58And that is really at the office level,
485. 17:00group level, business line, even at the
486. 17:02employee level. Because, of course,
487. 17:04>> those are purely financial KPIs.
488. 17:07That data is, of course, also used in
489. 17:09sales, coaching, and marketing.
490. 17:12>> Yes.
491. 17:12>> Um, we try to get all our employees to a
492. 17:15higher level, but if we see that they
493. 17:17have insufficient assignments, well,
494. 17:19then a potential problem arises.
495. 17:22>> Sure.
496. 17:24And that, um, that allows us to really
497. 17:26do a forecast.
498. 17:28Um, we know, of course, if we get an
499. 17:30assignment today, how long it takes on
500. 17:33average to sell, how long it takes on
501. 17:35average to invoice. So, regarding
502. 17:37forecasting, we have a lot of data.
503. 17:40>> Okay. Okay.
504. 17:42Now, the real estate market has
505. 17:44obviously, to say the least, gone
506. 17:46through a very interesting dynamic.
507. 17:49Mm-hmm.
508. 17:50>> How has that actually influenced you as
509. 17:52a CFO to perhaps steer the Waal Group
510. 17:54differently from a financial perspective
511. 17:56?
512. 17:57Actually,
513. 17:59>> I always start by saying about that, the
514. 18:01real estate market does not exist. It is
515. 18:03a lot of sub-markets.
516. 18:05>> Yes.
517. 18:06>> The group's strategy has always been to
518. 18:08choose diversification.
519. 18:09>> Mm-hmm.
520. 18:10>> Um, and why?
521. 18:12Because, of course, we are sometimes in
522. 18:14a cyclical market.
523. 18:16>> Mm-hmm.
524. 18:18I think half of our revenue, our core
525. 18:20business, is the sale of existing homes
526. 18:22and luxury real estate.
527. 18:26A big advantage of that market is that,
528. 18:29while you do have cyclical trends, it
529. 18:31remains a basic necessity.
530. 18:33Everyone needs a roof over their head.
531. 18:35Everyone has to sell sooner or later, or
532. 18:37whatever. So you might see some
533. 18:39hesitation, but the business doesn't
534. 18:41just fall flat.
535. 18:42>> Yes.
536. 18:45>> Diversification plays a major role in
537. 18:47niche markets, to take the new
538. 18:49construction market as an example.
539. 18:52Yes, it has had a very difficult time in
540. 18:54recent years. It’s been four years now
541. 18:56that they’ve really been in a slump.
542. 18:58Revenues there have dropped by, say, 30
543. 19:01to 40%.
544. 19:01>> Mm-hmm.
545. 19:02>> Of course, for us, that used to be 10%
546. 19:04of our revenue. That has dropped to 6 or
547. 19:077%.
548. 19:08So that is manageable.
549. 19:10>> That is manageable. Yes.
550. 19:13>> Another strategy we support is shifting
551. 19:16towards more recurring business models.
552. 19:20Property management, for example, falls
553. 19:23under that. We manage about 3,500
554. 19:25properties for investors, for private
555. 19:28investors.
556. 19:30That is growing and it fits perfectly
557. 19:32into our "life partner" narrative, as we
558. 19:34stay in constant contact with those
559. 19:36people.
560. 19:39And the final strategic line we follow
561. 19:41is that we try to set up specialized
562. 19:43services at the top of the pyramid, as
563. 19:46we say.
564. 19:49So shifting toward more specialist work
565. 19:51, toward larger deals, or toward the
566. 19:53transfer of company assets, for example
567. 19:55.
568. 19:58So, through this diversification policy
569. 20:00and regional spread, our experience is
570. 20:03that we can handle major fluctuations
571. 20:05well.
572. 20:07>> Yes.
573. 20:09Does this influence the way you as CFO
574. 20:11manage the business, using the same
575. 20:13tools and techniques, or have you had to
576. 20:15adjust a number of things?
577. 20:18I think our reporting system is, of
578. 20:20course, primarily geared toward our core
579. 20:23business, whereas the niche markets...
580. 20:26>> Yes, that is a work in progress,
581. 20:28naturally.
582. 20:29We need to get a better handle on the
583. 20:31numbers there—not on the feeling, but on
584. 20:33the numbers.
585. 20:35Yes, that is certainly something that
586. 20:37must improve for the future.
587. 20:41The margins realized in each niche could
588. 20:43also be presented more clearly.
589. 20:45>> Okay. Okay. What does the team look like
590. 20:47?
591. 20:50Our finance team consists of about six
592. 20:52people, let’s say three or four people
593. 20:54purely in accountancy.
594. 20:59A controller, a corporate finance lady,
595. 21:01and well, we do our financial closings
596. 21:04externally.
597. 21:06So a relatively lean team.
598. 21:09But it is managed very centrally.
599. 21:12The group's policy is that offices
600. 21:14should be busy with the business as
601. 21:16little as possible.
602. 21:18with peripheral issues such as
603. 21:20>> so all support services are naturally
604. 21:22managed from HQ, actually. That's what
605. 21:25it comes down to.
606. 21:26>> Right, right. Because it’s all about
607. 21:28focus, obviously, also in the business
608. 21:30itself. Yes.
609. 21:31>> Yeah. Okay. You mentioned at the start
610. 21:34of our conversation one of the
611. 21:35partnerships you are particularly proud
612. 21:37of, namely that with Bank van Breda.
613. 21:40What is that, exactly? What makes that
614. 21:43partnership so special?
615. 21:46Gosh, I think it’s not exactly common
616. 21:48for a banking organization to form a
617. 21:50partnership with the real estate sector
618. 21:52.
619. 21:54>> In the distant past, there was the
620. 21:56Optima story, and that left a certain
621. 21:59trauma in
622. 22:01>> in the banking world.
623. 22:03>> So, I think we are also the only
624. 22:05organization that has such a partnership
625. 22:07so far.
626. 22:09>> Yeah.
627. 22:10>> Why were we able to do that?
628. 22:13First, because there was a huge DNA
629. 22:15match between the culture and the DNA of
630. 22:17Bank van Breda.
631. 22:19Hm
632. 22:19>> hm.
633. 22:20>> The Bank for Entrepreneurs and the
634. 22:22liberal professions, which is also a bit
635. 22:24of our clientele.
636. 22:25And they were looking for ways to better
637. 22:27serve their customers in terms of all
638. 22:29real estate matters.
639. 22:31>> Yes, real estate is a very local affair
640. 22:33, isn't it?
641. 22:37It's very difficult to give the right
642. 22:38advice from the headquarters here in
643. 22:40Antwerp all the way to West Flanders and
644. 22:42Limburg.
645. 22:45So you need those local hands and feet
646. 22:46on the ground.
647. 22:48>> And that is naturally what we provide.
648. 22:50>> Um
649. 22:53concluding the partnership itself, let's
650. 22:55say that was quite a journey.
651. 22:57As real estate agents, we are also
652. 22:59monitored by our professional institute
653. 23:02.
654. 23:03I think banks play in a slightly
655. 23:04different league.
656. 23:06>> In terms of compliance, it's much, much
657. 23:08, much stricter. The FSMA and the
658. 23:10National Bank looked into it all very
659. 23:13closely.
660. 23:14We passed those tests very well.
661. 23:17So, for us, it has brought us to a
662. 23:19slightly higher level in that area.
663. 23:23And we see enormous future potential in
664. 23:25it.
665. 23:25But it is a joint venture.
666. 23:28It is a standalone organization.
667. 23:31Partaal does, um, yes, service clients
668. 23:33of Bank van Breda, but not only those of
669. 23:36Bank van Breda. They can make use of our
670. 23:39offices, but not exclusively our offices
671. 23:41. They have to service their own
672. 23:43clientele as well as possible themselves
673. 23:45. So, um
674. 23:46>> And how is that actually managed from
675. 23:48your CFO role then?
676. 23:50What role do you play in the operational
677. 23:53, um, um, yes, how is that actually run
678. 23:55from your position?
679. 23:58Well, at the start-up phase, you have,
680. 24:00of course, the budgeting and the
681. 24:02business plan, which we created together
682. 24:04from both organizations. How do we do it
683. 24:07today, now that you are closing joint
684. 24:09ventures? Yes, transparency is, of
685. 24:11course, super important. Good
686. 24:13communication regarding that.
687. 24:15>> And very concretely, yes, everything
688. 24:17that has to do with the accounting, we
689. 24:19divide the tasks a bit, right? So some
690. 24:21tasks are with our finance team, some
691. 24:23tasks are with their finance team.
692. 24:25Actually, a bit based on the principle,
693. 24:27the four-eyes principle. It’s many more
694. 24:29eyes, of course, to keep each other in
695. 24:31good balance so that no trouble arises
696. 24:34there.
697. 24:34>> Yes.
698. 24:35>> Purely from finance, um, yes, it’s the
699. 24:38business planning. We are, of course,
700. 24:41still investing in that joint venture.
701. 24:43Our resources are probably more limited
702. 24:46—not probably, I’m sure they are more
703. 24:48limited—than Bank van Breda’s.
704. 24:50>> Yes.
705. 24:52But still, in the boards of Partaal, and
706. 24:54I admire that enormously.
707. 24:58The CEO of Bank van Breda.
708. 25:01It’s exactly like his start-up and he
709. 25:03reasons completely from an SME mindset.
710. 25:06So it is definitely—we are certainly not
711. 25:08in the "ivory tower." It is really with
712. 25:10that mindset that it is
713. 25:13>> being looked at, also from the finance
714. 25:15side.
715. 25:15>> Very clear. Filip, I thought it was a
716. 25:18very good conversation. I still end with
717. 25:20the same question. What kind of passions
718. 25:22do you have?
719. 25:23>> Well, I listened to a few podcasts and I
720. 25:26heard the word "sport" come up a lot. I
721. 25:28fear that I fall into that category too
722. 25:30. So I do triathlons—small ones,
723. 25:33quarter-distance, half-distance. So I
724. 25:36spend quite a bit of time on that. In my
725. 25:38eyes, not fanatically.
726. 25:40Though some of my partners sometimes
727. 25:42think otherwise.
728. 25:44I’m also a fanatical skier, so in the
729. 25:46winter you can find me on the slopes.
730. 25:51And then, my true passion is traveling.
731. 25:54We take quite a lot of adventurous trips
732. 25:56.
733. 25:57They can even be very basic and
734. 25:59primitive. Because the day you return,
735. 26:01you know how good we have it here after
736. 26:03such a primitive trip.
737. 26:04>> Yes. Yes. Great. It was a very good
738. 26:07conversation, Filip, and I look forward
739. 26:08to seeing you again. Thank you. Thank
740. 26:10you. Thank
741. 26:11>> you.
742. 26:12Ladies and gentlemen, what this
743. 26:14conversation makes clear is that
744. 26:15strategic finance leadership doesn't
745. 26:17always have to come from a classic path
746. 26:19.
747. 26:21Anyone who is simultaneously CFO,
748. 26:23shareholder, and chairman must keep
749. 26:26their roles distinct.
750. 26:29And anyone active in a constantly moving
751. 26:31market must use finance to sharpen their
752. 26:33decision-making.
753. 26:36This makes Filip's story relevant for
754. 26:38current and future CFOs.
755. 26:41Thank you for watching this episode of
756. 26:43the CFO podcast.
757. 26:45Next week, we'll welcome another sharp
758. 26:48CFO to our studios to inform you,
759. 26:50challenge you, and who knows, inspire
760. 26:53you.
761. 26:53See you next week.
762. 26:57Next week in the CFO Playbook.
763. 27:00Filip de Walen, CFO of De Walen Real
764. 27:02Estate.
765. 27:11Robert Walters, your global talent
766. 27:13solution provider.