Former Trans Kid Chloe Cole on Why She Left Transgenderism — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00it is my honor today to welcome to the
2. 0:03show former trans kid Chloe Cole Chloe
3. 0:05thanks so much for being here thank you
4. 0:06for having me so Chloe you're 18 years
5. 0:08old where did you grow up
6. 0:11um I grew up in the Central Valley
7. 0:12California okay and do you remember you
8. 0:16know as we're jumping in talking about
9. 0:17your story your life this whole process
10. 0:20in the transgender movement do you
11. 0:21remember the first time that you heard
12. 0:23that word transgender or started to
13. 0:25think maybe that's Me Maybe I identify
14. 0:29as someone who's male I mean the first
15. 0:31time I heard the word I must have been
16. 0:32like eight or nine I just like overheard
17. 0:34it from the adults but I never really
18. 0:36I never really thought about it because
19. 0:38like
20. 0:39I was just I was just a kid and I wasn't
21. 0:41really yeah I didn't know anything about
22. 0:43it it wasn't until I was about 11 and I
23. 0:46started using social media that I
24. 0:48started to learn more about it and
25. 0:50start to like kind of apply that
26. 0:52information to myself and wonder
27. 0:55about like my identity and things like
28. 0:57that okay so it was through social media
29. 0:59you kind of start questioning your own
30. 1:01identity what what were you feeling at
31. 1:03that point when you were you know 11 12
32. 1:0513 you're scrolling through social media
33. 1:07and you're starting to kind of think
34. 1:08about gender identity yeah I mean
35. 1:12I would say
36. 1:14before that I was already kind of
37. 1:15vulnerable because
38. 1:17you know growing up I'm
39. 1:18it actually turns out that I'm on the
40. 1:22Spectrum but I didn't get a proper
41. 1:24diagnosis until
42. 1:26I basically wasn't a kid anymore but um
43. 1:29my parents struggled a lot with uh
44. 1:32with they're basically constantly at
45. 1:34odds with like my school my Physicians
46. 1:36you know I
47. 1:38at school
48. 1:40um
49. 1:41I was getting bullied a lot from young
50. 1:43age and um
51. 1:47I tended to struggle my classes and with
52. 1:49socialization I mean in fourth grade I
53. 1:51finally managed to make a group of
54. 1:53friends and that was kind of the first
55. 1:55time that I've really felt I guess you
56. 1:57would say
57. 1:58included with my peers but then I had to
58. 2:00move schools pretty quickly after that
59. 2:02and I was basically back at square one
60. 2:04and
61. 2:05my my second the second Elementary
62. 2:08Middle School that I went to
63. 2:10um
64. 2:12there was a lot of favoritism among
65. 2:14students and I was not one of the
66. 2:15favorite students I was actually getting
67. 2:18mistreated by both students and staff
68. 2:20and so I was pretty lonely and I turned
69. 2:24to the internet and I got my first phone
70. 2:26when I was 11. and
71. 2:29um
72. 2:32because because I didn't it was it was
73. 2:34quite difficult for me to make friends
74. 2:35and um
75. 2:42you know my parent my parents tried to
76. 2:45um
77. 2:45get me diagnosed for for autism because
78. 2:48my a lot of my teachers would tell them
79. 2:50that they
80. 2:52they noticed that I had some pretty
81. 2:54distinct signs of being on the Spectrum
82. 2:56but when they tried to get me diagnosed
83. 2:58The Physician just told them like oh no
84. 3:01she's she's too smart to be autistic
85. 3:02like there's there's no way she's
86. 3:04autistic and when they tried to get a
87. 3:05second opinion my mental my healthcare
88. 3:08provider just
89. 3:09said no and then they got me a diagnosis
90. 3:12for ADHD instead and then they started
91. 3:13medicating me at 10.
92. 3:15um
93. 3:18so
94. 3:19when I started using social media at 10
95. 3:21you know by the no 11 by that point in
96. 3:24time I was um
97. 3:28started I I had some some body image
98. 3:30issues you know I was kind of a tomboy
99. 3:32from a young age and I wasn't very
100. 3:34developed especially not in my chest
101. 3:36area but I did have slightly larger
102. 3:37shoulders I did have a bit more muscle
103. 3:39in my body from being a little bit more
104. 3:41on the athletic side yeah and I liked
105. 3:43having my hair short but I often felt
106. 3:46like I couldn't match up to other girls
107. 3:47in terms of appearance and I started to
108. 3:52you know I I I had difficulty especially
109. 3:54socializing with them and maintaining
110. 3:56friendships with them and so I started
111. 3:58to wonder if like something was wrong
112. 4:00with me and I often felt like I would be
113. 4:02better off as a boy okay and social
114. 4:05media introduced this idea that I could
115. 4:07that it could be a boy
116. 4:10um you know a lot of the a lot of the
117. 4:12feminist content I was seeing alongside
118. 4:14the LGBT content that I was exposed to
119. 4:17um
120. 4:18painted a very negative picture of being
121. 4:20a woman being feminine
122. 4:22um I was actually despite being a tomboy
123. 4:25I was actually I had a feminine side but
124. 4:28um I was ashamed of it because a lot of
125. 4:30cartoons and um other children's content
126. 4:33I would consume growing up kind of was
127. 4:35focused on boys and they kind of
128. 4:37portrayed like uh like girls and
129. 4:40especially like feminine girls as stupid
130. 4:42and not really contributing anything to
131. 4:44the story yeah just just being a
132. 4:46nuisance and I wanted
133. 4:48I wanted to be something more than that
134. 4:49you know absolutely but um
135. 4:54I also
136. 4:57from other women and girls growing up I
137. 4:58would often hear about the negative
138. 4:59parts of the female experience like how
139. 5:01painful periods and childbirth and
140. 5:03pregnancy and menopause are nobody ever
141. 5:05really talked about all the good things
142. 5:07that come with those things yeah and I
143. 5:10mean
144. 5:12naturally
145. 5:14hearing all that hearing all those
146. 5:16things about growing from a girl and so
147. 5:18a woman made me not want to do that yeah
148. 5:21um
149. 5:22I also hit puberty from a young age so I
150. 5:24was dealing with it kind of just like
151. 5:26hit me full force
152. 5:28um it's a lot yeah I would a lot of my
153. 5:31my peers and sometimes even adults would
154. 5:33make some really uncomfortable comments
155. 5:35about my body and I really wanted it was
156. 5:36something that I really just wanted to
157. 5:38escape and
158. 5:42like I said
159. 5:43um
160. 5:45the LGBT and especially the trans and
161. 5:48queer content that I was that I was
162. 5:51seeing taught me that I didn't have to
163. 5:54be a girl I didn't have to deal with any
164. 5:56of this I could just I could have a way
165. 5:58out and
166. 6:00I mean learning about this
167. 6:02and
168. 6:04learning about this kind of
169. 6:07gave me like a sense of relief because
170. 6:09it was like
171. 6:10there was all these things that I
172. 6:11thought was wrong with me and it all
173. 6:13finally made sense after I learned about
174. 6:15this
175. 6:16and it was I thought it was the answer
176. 6:18so yeah
177. 6:20you know I started uh
178. 6:22before I decided that I was actually a
179. 6:26boy I
180. 6:28no I kind of experimented with certain
181. 6:31labels I was like maybe I'm bisexual or
182. 6:33by gender or genderless
183. 6:35and eventually it just became
184. 6:38I'm I'm not a girl at all I'm just I'm
185. 6:40just a boy and I started how old were
186. 6:43you when you started saying I'm a boy I
187. 6:46was 12. you're 12. um I started cutting
188. 6:48my hair shorter and wearing more boys
189. 6:50clothes and um
190. 6:53I told my told some friends at school
191. 6:56about this and some friends online some
192. 6:59of my some of my siblings and eventually
193. 7:01I
194. 7:03um I decided to come out to my parents
195. 7:06because I decided that I wanted to
196. 7:09medically transition and I knew that I
197. 7:11would have to get them on board with
198. 7:12that in order for that to happen
199. 7:15um
200. 7:16you know they
201. 7:19they were pretty surprised they do like
202. 7:22I was I was a tomboy but they can I
203. 7:24don't think any parent could really
204. 7:25foresee that kind of thing their their
205. 7:27kid
206. 7:28saying that kind of thing but they they
207. 7:31wanted to support me but they're also
208. 7:33they're also pretty cautious they didn't
209. 7:35understand why I was pushing so much for
210. 7:38medically transitioning
211. 7:40um
212. 7:42and so
213. 7:44after I got the the gender dysphoria
214. 7:46diagnosis when the
215. 7:49somebody on my medical team had told
216. 7:52them that
217. 7:54um they never they never presented any
218. 7:56options other than transitioning okay
219. 7:59and um the doctors didn't yeah they um
220. 8:04when my dad asked he
221. 8:08he asked um
222. 8:10what the regret rate looked like and
223. 8:12they gave him a figure of wrongs
224. 8:16one to two percent if not less okay and
225. 8:19they never talked about what would
226. 8:21happen if I were to regret my transition
227. 8:23and go back on that decision and they
228. 8:26told them that
229. 8:28if I wasn't affirmed to my identity and
230. 8:31allowed to transition as I wanted then I
231. 8:34would be at risk of suicide so they were
232. 8:37pretty much coerced into allowance
233. 8:39happened okay
234. 8:41okay so uh you start taking
235. 8:44[Music]
236. 8:46a lot of different medicines puberty
237. 8:48lockers
238. 8:49um then it was at 15 that you had a
239. 8:52double mastectomy correct yeah okay do
240. 8:54you remember what was kind of going
241. 8:56through your head when you're coming out
242. 8:58of surgery
243. 8:59you realize okay I've just had a double
244. 9:01mastectomy what were you feeling
245. 9:04I felt great actually I was
246. 9:06the time I was actually quite happy
247. 9:08um
248. 9:09you know I thought of myself
249. 9:11to generally be a boy despite being in a
250. 9:16female body
251. 9:17um
252. 9:18the justification was that I had a male
253. 9:22gender identity that didn't match with
254. 9:24my body and I thought that this meant
255. 9:27that I had um
256. 9:30the brain of the opposite sex this is um
257. 9:32part of a theory called the brain sex
258. 9:34Theory which has been disproven but
259. 9:39um
260. 9:41you know not not only that not only did
261. 9:43I want to look like the boys my age
262. 9:44because I thought I was one but
263. 9:47um
264. 9:49I also had been using
265. 9:51um the compression device called a
266. 9:53binder to flatten the appearance of my
267. 9:55breasts for about two years before my
268. 9:58mastectomy and
269. 10:00it was tiring I I got really sick of it
270. 10:03quick
271. 10:04um you know I would wear this thing for
272. 10:06about eight to twelve hours a day
273. 10:07sometimes and I would I would wear it
274. 10:09basically whenever I was out of the
275. 10:11house or whenever we had guests over and
276. 10:13you know I I would be I'd wear it while
277. 10:15I was like on a run or working out or
278. 10:19swimming or um
279. 10:22yeah you know sometimes I'd be walking
280. 10:24home from school and and like 110
281. 10:27degrees in this thing yeah it sounds so
282. 10:29uncomfortable yeah it was I wanted to be
283. 10:32free of it yeah but I also had um this
284. 10:36never really went and dressed
285. 10:38um
286. 10:39partly because I had a lot of Shame
287. 10:41around it but I also had been
288. 10:43um I was sexually assaulted in eighth
289. 10:45grade
290. 10:46um
291. 10:47I had been groped by a male classmate
292. 10:50who
293. 10:52um had been bullying me for over the
294. 10:54course of that school year
295. 10:55and I kind of just brushed off my head
296. 10:58because this is this was when I was
297. 10:59early in my transition so I was like
298. 11:01well I'm supposed to be a guy and it's
299. 11:02just it's just boys being boys so I
300. 11:04should just be a man about it and not
301. 11:06not not complain about it not really
302. 11:09bother with it and I knew that even if
303. 11:10it did really bother me I wouldn't be
304. 11:12able to speak out anyways because
305. 11:14school would have
306. 11:16definitely given the kid a slap on the
307. 11:17wrist yeah and I knew that if he came
308. 11:19back from school after that he could
309. 11:21have done something worse and so I
310. 11:24couldn't really speak out on it and I
311. 11:25didn't really realize just how much it
312. 11:27affected me yeah um
313. 11:30were you talking to any counselors or
314. 11:32anything like when you were saying I
315. 11:35think I'm a man I mean were people
316. 11:36asking you questions like have you ever
317. 11:38experienced sexual assault or anything
318. 11:40like that
319. 11:41um
320. 11:42I can't really remember that far back
321. 11:44but that happened actually after I I
322. 11:47started it yeah okay medically
323. 11:49transitioning okay okay
324. 11:51so what happened and I also it's also
325. 11:53important to note that I didn't
326. 11:54recognize it as sexual assault because I
327. 11:57you know I was thinking of myself as a
328. 11:59boy as it just being like a like boys
329. 12:02being boys type thing yeah so in in a
330. 12:05lot of ways
331. 12:06and this is just one one of many ways
332. 12:08that I wasn't really
333. 12:10mentally confident enough to
334. 12:13go through this kind of thing you were a
335. 12:15child exactly yeah
336. 12:18what made you then at 16 say
337. 12:23I made a mistake
338. 12:26I I don't want to be a boy I'm a girl
339. 12:31um there were a few factors after my
340. 12:33mastectomy I started to
341. 12:36I wouldn't say I realized that the
342. 12:39regret set in very quickly it took uh
343. 12:42nearly a year okay but I started to miss
344. 12:46being feminine
345. 12:48um being able to look pretty and wear
346. 12:50makeup and present myself in such a way
347. 12:52and um
348. 12:54in secret I would actually buy women's
349. 12:56clothes and wear some of my my old girls
350. 12:58clothes just whenever nobody was was
351. 13:01home and I would I was alone I was I was
352. 13:04pretty ashamed about this because by
353. 13:06this point in time I was already
354. 13:07medically transitioning for so long and
355. 13:10I didn't have breasts anymore I didn't
356. 13:12really look like a woman
357. 13:15so it was something that I just kept to
358. 13:17myself for a while but these feelings
359. 13:19just kept building up and it got worse
360. 13:21and I just assumed that it was part of
361. 13:24the post-op period like you're gonna
362. 13:25experience some depression but it didn't
363. 13:28get any better yeah
364. 13:30um
365. 13:34about a year after my surgery I started
366. 13:39taking classes on psychology in my
367. 13:41junior year and one of the the chapters
368. 13:43was focused on Child Development and
369. 13:46parenting and I learned that
370. 13:49breastfeeding is not only that but it
371. 13:52also plays a role in the bond between
372. 13:53mother and child and that Bond goes on
373. 13:57to affect that child's later cognitive
374. 13:59and emotional and social functioning
375. 14:02and
376. 14:04upon reading this I felt like a monster
377. 14:08I felt like
378. 14:10I realized that I took something not
379. 14:12only for myself but also potentially
380. 14:14from
381. 14:15my future children
382. 14:17and I think that's when the realization
383. 14:18really hit that I shouldn't have been
384. 14:20allowed to go through this
385. 14:21I mean not only that but also the
386. 14:23lessons about um like like um
387. 14:27cognitive
388. 14:28and emotional development in kids and
389. 14:30teenagers made me realize that
390. 14:34I at an age where I was
391. 14:37naturally where everybody really
392. 14:39naturally is prone to making some pretty
393. 14:41rash decisions
394. 14:42I was allowed to make one that was
395. 14:45permanent yeah under the guidance of
396. 14:48adults medical professionals yeah
397. 14:52and um
398. 14:55a few weeks later I
399. 14:58decided to stop transitioning entirely
400. 15:00it was just it was too much for me and I
401. 15:02knew that I couldn't keep lying to
402. 15:03myself and I went cold turkey off of
403. 15:06testosterone
404. 15:07um
405. 15:09in the school year that followed was
406. 15:11really tough yeah
407. 15:14because what happened
408. 15:16[Music]
409. 15:19the community that had been supporting
410. 15:20you and and really championing you in in
411. 15:23the transition
412. 15:25were they supportive of you saying hey
413. 15:27I'm no longer a transgender
414. 15:29no um
415. 15:31I was getting attacked online actually
416. 15:33um by this point in time
417. 15:35um
418. 15:36coveted hit and so all the quarantine
419. 15:39laws in my state were pretty pretty
420. 15:40strict
421. 15:42um my relationships at school suffered
422. 15:44because of it and I was mostly online by
423. 15:46that point in time
424. 15:47and a lot of my support system was
425. 15:49people online and as soon as I started
426. 15:51talking about like my transition my
427. 15:52transition regret I started getting
428. 15:53harassed a lot
429. 15:55and um
430. 15:59even just bringing up that I stopped
431. 16:01transitioning and like trying
432. 16:03there are instances when I would try to
433. 16:05like connect with with
434. 16:07um trans women because they were
435. 16:10you know they had a lot of them had they
436. 16:13were
437. 16:14they already went through puberty they
438. 16:16had like
439. 16:17masculine features but they were trying
440. 16:19to represent themselves as women and
441. 16:21trying to adjust socially into the role
442. 16:24of a woman and so I felt like I could
443. 16:26relate to them that way and I often try
444. 16:28to make friends with them but I would
445. 16:29get shut down they would basically tell
446. 16:31me to just shut up and stop interacting
447. 16:32with them and that I was making them
448. 16:34uncomfortable I got that a lot actually
449. 16:36I would a lot of people told me that by
450. 16:39talking about
451. 16:40my experiences and how transitioning
452. 16:43harmed me I was harming a larger
453. 16:46community of people who would benefit
454. 16:47from transition and that I would scare
455. 16:49them off from
456. 16:51getting their they call it life-saving
457. 16:54care
458. 16:55um and I did I didn't I did give in to
459. 16:58the Mob for a little bit but I also
460. 17:01started um doing some research on
461. 17:04detransitioning and I was in some
462. 17:08communities online of other people who
463. 17:10were in my situation
464. 17:13um
465. 17:15and I realized that
466. 17:17what
467. 17:20the information that I was given not
468. 17:22only by the medical professionals and
469. 17:24like all the
470. 17:25all the stuff I was seeing online but
471. 17:27also from other transgender people was
472. 17:29all just prop basically wow just just
473. 17:33made up and that I was basically that I
474. 17:35was that I was being lied to and
475. 17:41I realized that
476. 17:43I couldn't stop speaking about it like
477. 17:45somebody
478. 17:47I I I was I was talking to a lot of
479. 17:49adults who had stopped transitioning but
480. 17:52I knew that there have there has to be a
481. 17:54lot more kids who were in my situation
482. 17:55and I think that's really the biggest
483. 17:57thing that prompted me to start speaking
484. 17:59up again
485. 18:00um and so I did I started becoming
486. 18:03more vocal about my experiences and how
487. 18:07my
488. 18:08um
489. 18:09how My Views have been challenged and
490. 18:13trying to challenge other people's views
491. 18:15online
492. 18:16um
493. 18:18and I lost a lot of friends both online
494. 18:21and from school
495. 18:23um
496. 18:24by this point in time I also wasn't the
497. 18:26most emotionally stable and it did
498. 18:27impact a lot of my my um
499. 18:30my interpersonal relationships
500. 18:33um
501. 18:34but I basically spent my senior year
502. 18:36alone because I didn't really have any
503. 18:39friends at school I was kind of a
504. 18:41freak
505. 18:42I I looked
506. 18:44I looked like a Boy by that point in
507. 18:46time I I still had some pretty rough
508. 18:48features but I was you know I was
509. 18:50growing my hair out wearing
510. 18:52presenting myself feminine and there was
511. 18:54I guess you could say
512. 18:57kind of an incongruence in my appearance
513. 18:59and it was very obvious and I got picked
514. 19:00on
515. 19:01for it sometimes and um
516. 19:05it really did suck but I managed to find
517. 19:08new friends outside of school and
518. 19:12um
519. 19:13reconnect a little bit with my family
520. 19:15members and
521. 19:17the support that I've been getting from
522. 19:19from them has really been what's keeping
523. 19:22me going that's awesome that's huge to
524. 19:24have that support Chloe looking back is
525. 19:27there something that you think whether
526. 19:30it was a counselor or doctor a parent
527. 19:34some some role model in your life could
528. 19:36have
529. 19:37said to you or something they could have
530. 19:39done
531. 19:40that would have kept you from making
532. 19:43that decision to start on hormones to
533. 19:46get a double mastectomy to go on that
534. 19:49full path of walking walking towards
535. 19:52quote becoming a man
536. 19:55it's hard to say because I was
537. 19:57so stubborn especially towards the
538. 20:00beginning and middle of my transition
539. 20:01but
540. 20:02um
541. 20:05you know recently I had an interview
542. 20:08with um with Jordan B Peterson and it
543. 20:11didn't really feel like an interview it
544. 20:12felt like I was
545. 20:16I feel like if I had a psychologist like
546. 20:18him back then none of this would have
547. 20:20happened wow none of it wow
548. 20:22that's pretty incredible he's pretty
549. 20:24amazing we need more people like him out
550. 20:27there yeah what what was it about the
551. 20:29way that he talked with you and the
552. 20:31questions that he asked that can have
553. 20:33you say today if I had someone like him
554. 20:35in my life I I wouldn't have
555. 20:36transitioned yeah his he probed pretty
556. 20:38deep and he was also he was very
557. 20:40informative I that that was one of the
558. 20:42first interviews where I really
559. 20:45I really feel like I I learned something
560. 20:47even wow that's cool yeah it was really
561. 20:51cool
562. 20:52well now you're on this wild Road of
563. 20:54advocacy and you're speaking out and
564. 20:56you're sharing your story and you're
565. 20:58even sharing your story with leaders in
566. 21:00Congress
567. 21:01what ultimately is the end goal of all
568. 21:04of this advocacy of sharing your story
569. 21:06of being willing to be so vulnerable
570. 21:09um
571. 21:10well I really want to stop transitioning
572. 21:12from happening in children in minors and
573. 21:17I want to reform in the affirmative care
574. 21:20system and how we treat
575. 21:22um people with people who present with
576. 21:24General dysphoria or Express the desire
577. 21:26to transition to the opposite sex
578. 21:27because really the model right now is
579. 21:30very one size fits all and it doesn't
580. 21:32take cases like mine into account
581. 21:36um I mean a lot of people who are
582. 21:38transgender or dysphoric
583. 21:42have some sort of comorbid condition
584. 21:43either alongside their their dysphoria
585. 21:46or possibly even having
586. 21:49led to the development of their
587. 21:51dysphoria I mean every every young
588. 21:54transgender person that I know
589. 21:56personally
590. 21:57has either been sexually assaulted or
591. 21:59they have
592. 22:00um some sort of family trauma or they're
593. 22:04on the spectrum they have ADHD or
594. 22:07depression
595. 22:10and it's it's never
596. 22:13none of that has ever really taken into
597. 22:14account
598. 22:15and I feel like that's something you
599. 22:17have to address before
600. 22:18you allow somebody to make a
601. 22:21life-changing decision yeah
602. 22:23and with that one of the actions that
603. 22:26you've decided to take is to file a
604. 22:27lawsuit against some of those people
605. 22:29some of those doctors who you feel like
606. 22:32should have been giving you a bigger
607. 22:33picture of what was happening talk just
608. 22:36a little bit about that what's happening
609. 22:37there
610. 22:38um
611. 22:39yeah so
612. 22:42in in November we I my my team sent out
613. 22:45a letter of intent to sue
614. 22:48um
615. 22:48address to my surgeon
616. 22:52my gender specialist who referred me to
617. 22:54that surgeon my endocrinologist who got
618. 22:56me on hormones and then the hospital
619. 22:58that did it and Kaiser as a whole okay
620. 23:02um we're still in the 90-day period so
621. 23:03not really any updates there but we're
622. 23:06starting to near the end of it wait and
623. 23:08see what happens there we'll definitely
624. 23:09following that Chloe for those that want
625. 23:11to follow your story that want to keep
626. 23:13up with your work that want to support
627. 23:14your work how can they do that so
628. 23:17I'm I'm most active on Twitter
629. 23:21um
630. 23:22my username is c h triple o c o l e
631. 23:26awesome you can also just search for
632. 23:28Chloe Cole in Google and yeah a lot
633. 23:31comes up I'm also I'm also active on um
634. 23:34on Instagram awesome and um and YouTube
635. 23:37I'm not nearly as active as I should be
636. 23:39on this platform but well we can only
637. 23:42give so much time to social media so
638. 23:44well Chloe thank you really appreciate
639. 23:46your willingness to share your story
640. 23:47your vulnerability it takes an insane
641. 23:50amount of Courage you're 18 and you're
642. 23:53doing what most people at any age would
643. 23:55be terrified to do so thank you really
644. 23:58appreciate it
645. 23:59um and know that we're we're all from
646. 24:01the daily schedule team we're all
647. 24:02cheering for you thank you so much
648. 24:05[Music]