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Forensic Drawing and the Common Read: An Exploration of the Process and the Ronald Cotton Case — Transcript

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0:09- Good afternoon, everyone.
0:12Ooh, let's do it again.
0:13Good afternoon, everyone.
0:14- [Audience] Good afternoon.
0:15- I hope everyone's doing okay.
0:16We're all inside.
0:18It's nice and warm and dry in here.
0:19I'm glad you're with us today.
0:21My name is Susan Madera.
0:22I'm director of the Common Read Initiative
0:24here at Queensborough Community College.
0:26I wanna thank you for coming today and tell you
0:29that you are in for something very exciting.
0:32We have with us today presenting, Doctor Cary Lane.
0:35Cary Lane has been teaching in the
0:36Department of Academic Literacy
0:38at Queensborough Trinity College since 2010.
0:41He received his Masters in Fine Arts in Art Theory
0:44and practice from Northwestern University in 1996
0:48and his doctorate in postsecondary in adult education
0:51at Cappella University in 2015.
0:55One of Lane's main research interests
0:57is examining how image-based instruction affects
1:01text-based learning at the postsecondary level.
1:05He has engaged in several service learning
1:07and pedagogical research projects
1:09that have implemented image-based high-impact pedagogies,
1:13including the
1:152014 to 2015 NEH Challenge Grant.
1:19Prior to his work at Queensborough Community College,
1:21Doctor Lane has taught painting,
1:23drawing and communication skills
1:26at John Jay College of Criminal Justice
1:29and he still teaches forensic drawing there once a year.
1:33Please join me in welcoming our special guest,
1:35Doctor Cary Lane.
1:36(claps) (audience clapping)
1:42- Thank you very much.
1:44Thank you Susan Madera for your introduction
1:47and for your invitation to speak here at the Common Read,
1:52also to my colleague, Doctor Kerri-Ann Smith,
1:55who nominated me for this presentation
1:58so it was my pleasure to say yes.
2:00The Common Read is a wonderful
2:03high-impact practice here at Queensborough
2:06and so I'm really happy to see so many students here,
2:10some of which are my own and my former students.
2:12So everybody, welcome.
2:14This is gonna be an interactive
2:16and I think fun sort of session for you.
2:19We're gonna look at forensic drawing
2:22not only in terms of its role
2:24in the Common Read for Picking Cotton,
2:27but also taking a look at the process
2:30of forensic drawing, which is a very intricate process.
2:37These are three sketches I did myself,
2:40wanting to do three different ethnicities.
2:41I'm gonna get into sort of drawing different ethnicities
2:45and how difficult it is for witnesses
2:47of other ethnicities to describe
2:49suspects of different ethnicities.
2:52So we're gonna get into all that.
2:53First I wanna give you a brief history of forensic drawing.
2:56This is the first forensic drawing
2:59that was ever created in 1881.
3:04Just to give you an idea how little
3:06the field has changed in 130 years,
3:09here's a forensic drawing from 2010
3:12from the New York City Police Department.
3:15I actually happen to think that the first forensic drawing
3:17from 1881 is actually better than the one from 2010
3:22and that maybe because the suspect in the sketch on the left
3:25has a much more sort of interesting face
3:29whereas the suspect on the right is a more generic face,
3:35but whether a sketch is done in 1881 or 2010 or 2016,
3:40or in the case of Picking Cotton in 1984,
3:43the principles of what makes a good
3:45forensic drawing remain the same.
3:52(clears throat) I'm gonna give you a brief
3:54description of the uses of forensic art.
3:55Generally forensic art is any police
4:00or judicial system use of art.
4:06If you find skeletal remains,
4:08you can do a two-dimensional facial reconstruction.
4:13Oftentimes forensic is used in the court room
4:15where a forensic artist will create
4:17demonstrative evidence for the jury to see.
4:23Sometimes sculptures are made
4:24of when you have skeletal remains.
4:27It is possible to surmise what the victim looked like
4:32based on the structure of their skull,
4:35and we'll take a look at some examples as we go forward.
4:40There is age progression or age regression
4:43so if a suspect was missing and we want
4:45to anticipate what that, or a suspect or a victim,
4:49look like 20 years, 10 years, 30 years later,
4:52we can do an age progression.
4:57The Etan Patz case which many of you might be familiar
5:00in New York City which is now 40 years old,
5:06Associated Press called me and they wanted me to do an age
5:08progression of what Etan Patz would look like at the age of,
5:13I think he'd be 48 years old at this point.
5:16I said, "I would do it,
5:17"but only with the permission of the mother,"
5:18who is still alive,
5:20and that was the last I heard from Associated Press
5:22because I wanted family permission
5:24before I went ahead and did that.
5:27Lastly the most frequent use
5:28of forensic art is forensic drawing,
5:30which in the case of Picking Cotton,
5:34forensic drawing was the form of forensic art
5:37used to try identify the rape suspect.
5:42Does anyone have any guesses,
5:44I just wanted to show a little
5:46example of two-dimensional facial reconstruction.
5:49Does anyone have any guesses of who,
5:52this is a deceased woman
5:54and I'll just give you clue
5:56that this is 50 years old, this image.
5:59Does anyone have an idea or a guess
6:02who this woman was when she was alive?
6:09A lot of changes happen when we die and you're
6:12gonna be a little shocked to see who this is.
6:18I think it was a two-year difference
6:19between when the photo on the right
6:21was taken from the photo on the left.
6:23So as a forensic artist we have to understand what happens
6:26physically to the human body when we die in order
6:30to recreate what the person might
6:33look like when they were alive.
6:35Here's some famous forensic drawing
6:38over the course of the last 40 years.
6:43Does anyone recognize any of these?
6:47Doctor Smith?
6:50- [Doctor Smith] She said unabomber at the top.
6:54- The unabomber's on the lower right.
6:57On the upper left is Timothy McVeigh, Timothy (chuckles).
7:04He blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City.
7:08Do you guys think these are good sketches,
7:10these are good renderings?
7:10Which one is the most accurate would you say?
7:20Which would you say is the most accurate of these?
7:23(audience speaking off microphone)
7:25Why is the top left most accurate?
7:33What facial features do you think the artist rendered
7:35based on description that really captured,
7:37when they actually captured the suspect,
7:40what aspect of the face really jumps out?
7:43That mouth area?
7:45- [Woman] Chin.
7:46(man speaking off microphone)
7:46- Right, I think the nose.
7:48Those little sort of pocket of fluid underneath the lip
7:51or that really distinctive shape that Timothy McVeigh has,
7:56the artist really sort of accentuated those
7:58and I think that's one reason why it's effective.
8:03On the lower left, this was an interesting sketch.
8:05This was from Petaluma, California.
8:08A man invaded a house in the middle of the night.
8:12There were three young girls having a sleepover.
8:17He abducted one of them.
8:19This is the Polly Klaas case and unfortunately
8:22the young girl was murdered by this man,
8:26but the sketch was made by the other two girls
8:29who were in the room and it was dark
8:30and it was in the middle of the night
8:32and they both described the man's
8:33face to the forensic artist.
8:36Between those two descriptions,
8:39the artist was able to get a composite
8:41that ends up looking fairly close to the suspect.
8:46On the upper right, this is not a very good sketch,
8:48the Son of Sam sketch from the late 70s in New York City.
8:55Maybe the facial shape is similar,
8:57but the facial features don't really match very well.
9:00But the point is is when there's no other evidence
9:03and there's no video footage and there's only
9:05an eye witness testimony or eye witness
9:08that can help capture a suspect,
9:10a forensic drawing is used.
9:13A forensic drawing is not evidence
9:15and it's important to remember that.
9:16A forensic drawing is an investigative tool for police
9:20to use to capture a suspect or to arrest the suspect.
9:24Once a suspect is arrested, evidence takes over.
9:27So no one can be and should be
9:29put in jail because of a sketch,
9:32but a sketch may get you arrested if you match
9:38the drawing.
9:40So that's an important distinction to make
9:42that a forensic drawing is not evidence.
9:44It is an investigative tool
9:46that police use to catch wanted criminal.
9:52Now looking at the unabomber sketch, one of the reasons,
9:55this sketch is made fun of a lot.
9:57In fact, when I was in college,
9:58a lot of people were wearing this as a Halloween costume,
10:03the hood, the sunglasses and,
10:05"Oh, it's the unabomber.
10:06"It's the unabomber,"
10:07but I actually think this is an
10:08excellent sketch because it shows us
10:10that a sketch can only be as good
10:13as the description the witness gives.
10:16So in this case,
10:17they saw the unabomber coming out of the
10:19store wearing a hoodie and sunglasses.
10:21It is the forensic artist's job to just
10:24draw what the witness described.
10:26So in this case, if it's a hoodie and sunglasses,
10:28you draw the hoodie and sunglasses.
10:31You can't guess what the eyes look like.
10:33You can only draw what the witness described.
10:35So in this case,
10:37look at the jaw line and look how well
10:39that jaw line matches with the actual suspect,
10:43and it's pretty impressive.
10:49Does anyone recognize who this man is?
10:51(man laughing)
10:53That's Sammy Sosa.
10:54Sammy Sosa is Dominican.
10:57Does he look Dominican on the left?
11:00Does he look Dominican on the right?
11:02Okay, because he's Dominican.
11:05The reason his pigment looks different is because he says,
11:09I think he said he had a blood disease,
11:10but I think it was performance-enhancing drugs,
11:14steroids that did this to his pigmentation,
11:17but I want to show you this because it just shows
11:20that a Dominican face is a Dominican face
11:23no matter how dark the skin is,
11:25and that goes for African-American or Caucasian or Asian.
11:31Thus back to my sketches
11:32where I did an Italian-American white,
11:35African-American and Latino.
11:40So did I use more graphite in any of these sketches,
11:45that is am I laying down more pencil marks
11:48in any of the sketches or is it fairly equal?
11:53Yet we can clearly make a distinction
11:55between race and ethnicity can we not?
11:59One of the reasons is because of
12:00the skull structure underneath.
12:02So what I did was I put a corresponding skull,
12:05although I have to say that number C is incorrect,
12:07number C is an Asian skull,
12:10but A is a Caucasians skull,
12:12B, if you look underneath,
12:15B is African-American or Afro-base skull,
12:19and C is an Asian skull.
12:21So notice that an Asian skull is fairly flat,
12:25an African-based skull is where the
12:27mandible is a little bit protruding
12:29and a Caucasians skull is a little bit in between.
12:35A Hispanic skull would be somewhere between A and B.
12:39So an excellent forensic artist understands
12:42the anatomical differences and the
12:44anthropological differences of the skull
12:46and that's really how we indicate ethnicity.
12:48It isn't about putting a lot of graphite in
12:51if they're a dark African-American.
12:53It's about drawing the skull well.
12:59So one thing to remember when we talk about how,
13:03and we're gonna get into the Ronald Cotton case,
13:05is the difference between what's
13:07called recognition versus recall,
13:11that is it's easier to recognize something
13:13than it is to remember something,
13:15and we're gonna do a little game right now to prove
13:17that it's easier to recognize something than it is
13:20to remember something, let alone describe something.
13:23So I'm gonna show you four images.
13:26I want you tell me who you see.
13:31- [Audience] Abraham Lincoln.
13:33- All right, that took like, what,
13:34half a second? (audience laughing)
13:36I just showed you a pixelated blob
13:38and you're like, "Abraham Lincoln."
13:40"It was Abraham Lincoln."
13:41It was like, what, a half a second.
13:44That just goes to show you it's much easier
13:46to recognize something than it is to remember.
13:48Now if I asked you to describe
13:49Abraham Lincoln's face right now, you'd be like,
13:53"I think he had mole,
13:57"high cheekbones I think, drawn face,"
13:59it would get harder and harder,
14:01although he has actually a very distinctive face.
14:03That'd be pretty easy.
14:04He's on the $5 bill.
14:06Let's do it again.
14:08Who's that?
14:09- [Audience] Angelina Jolie.
14:10- Okay there are seven billion people on this planet.
14:14There's seven billion people on this planet
14:16and I put up some lips and you know,
14:18like "Angelina Jolie." (audience laughing)
14:24How did that happen?
14:26How did you guess Angelina Jolie in a half a second
14:28out of seven billion lips in this world?
14:30- [Man] Well, I don't wanna tell you why.
14:32- (laughs) Precisely. (audience laughing)
14:34Yes, yes, it's Angelina Jolie.
14:37Who's that?
14:38- [Audience] Zac Efron.
14:39- Oh man, you are recognizing very well.
14:43Recognition versus recall.
14:47Okay, correct.
14:48That's an old picture.
14:51Who dat?
14:51- [Audience] Obama.
14:53- Okay.
14:54(chuckles) (audience laughing)
14:59So that's recognizing.
15:02Now it's time for you guys to recall.
15:05Everybody has a index card in front of them, correct?
15:08Okay.
15:09What I want you to do is pretend I was a criminal.
15:12You've had the luxury of seeing me for the last 15 minutes.
15:16I want you to put your name at the top of the index card.
15:18I want you to describe my face
15:20and body per these instructions.
15:22You may begin now.
15:24I'm gonna put you in the witnesses' shoes.
15:29So pretend I committed a crime.
15:33What you're gonna do is you're gonna pretend
15:35that I committed a crime and I want you to describe
15:39my height, my weight, my build, my ethnicity,
15:42my hair, my skin,
15:45everything about my head, face, eyes,
15:48anything else you remember about me.
15:50You're gonna write this down on your index card.
15:54Let's see how well you can recall.
15:58This is recognition versus recall.
16:01You're now remembering and describing what I look like.
16:13How much were you paying attention?
16:16What kind of detail will you describe my body and my face?
16:23Please put your name at the top of the index card.
16:31Yeah.
16:33(woman speaking off microphone)
16:36They're describing my face.
16:43Would it help you if I came back
16:44in the room and you cheated?
16:46- [Man] Yes.
16:47- I'm not gonna give you that luxury.
16:49Try and remember.
16:54They're gonna say (mumbles).
16:56(man speaking off microphone)
16:58Oh yeah, but that...
17:00I'm making it easier for them
17:01'cause I was in there for 10 minutes, yeah.
17:03They woulda never remembered.
17:04They woulda never remembered.
17:14Man, I must've been talking to you for 10 minutes.
17:16That's a long time.
17:18You got no excuses not to remember.
17:34(person speaking off microphone)
17:41(woman giggling)
17:47Be as descriptive as possible.
17:49I'm gonna single a few of you out.
17:51I'm gonna read your cards to everybody.
17:55Take another two minutes, two minutes.
18:06(people speaking off microphone)
18:25When you're done,
18:26I want you to pass your index cards to the aisle.
18:29Susan and Doctor Smith, Doctor Shre-nah-mah-kers,
18:32if you can please collect the cards for me.
18:55(woman speaking off microphone)
19:00Please pass your cards to the aisle.
19:03(people speaking off microphone)
19:18In 30 seconds, I'm gonna come back in the room.
19:2520 seconds.
19:45Okay, here I come.
19:49Okay, ready?
19:51Ready?
19:53Are we good?
19:55(people speaking off mic) Pass 'em up.
20:09Okay.
20:13- [Woman] Did we get it right?
20:15And we know you.
20:16(people speaking off microphone)
20:25- You had a front row seat.
20:27(woman speaking off mic) All right, here we go.
20:31Here we go.
20:35First, I wanna ask you,
20:38was that a little harder than seeing Angelina Jolie?
20:43How many of you had real difficulty
20:45with remembering my body and face?
20:50How many had relative ease
20:55describing my face and body?
20:57Okay, well, you guys are my students, so you...
21:01(audience laughing)
21:02- [Man] I said kind of (speaking off microphone).
21:03- You've been watching me all semester, so,
21:07but imagine if you were held up at gunpoint
21:10and you saw the suspect maybe for 10 seconds
21:14and there's a gun in your face.
21:15A lot of times what we have as witnesses,
21:17"I remember the tint of the gun, the metal of the gun,"
21:22and that's all they remember compared
21:25to the nuances of the suspect's face.
21:27It's very, very difficult.
21:28You had the luxury of seeing me for 15 minutes
21:31and I was talking and I was moving around.
21:36I mean most crimes occur, they take 10, 20 seconds.
21:40"Give me your wallet.
21:41"Give me your purse."
21:41Sometimes they're longer like in the
21:43Picking Cotton case, in the Cotton case,
21:47but this was to show you how difficult it is
21:50to be an eyewitness, recognition versus recall.
21:54This is your recall.
21:55Let's see how you did.
21:57You did very well.
21:58(audience laughing)
22:00Someone says I'm five-foot-eight or six feet.
22:03(audience laughing)
22:05Weight, 150.
22:06(audience laughing)
22:10My build is little.
22:12(audience laughing) (chuckles)
22:17Hair is brown
22:20and my ethnicity is white slash Jewish.
22:22This is (chuckles), (audience laughing)
22:25that you got correct.
22:27Everything else, I mean 150 pounds!
22:31Who here is five-foot-eight?
22:34Come on up.
22:35(audience laughing) All right, come on up.
22:38This is five-foot-eight versus Professor Lane.
22:41(audience laughing) Okay, okay.
22:43How much do you weigh?
22:45- I'm like 140.
22:46- So he's five-eight, 150.
22:48(audience laughing)
22:50I guess that would've been my day to commit
22:53a crime 'cause I'd never be caught.
22:55(audience laughing)
22:58So Iman says I'm six-foot-two, 250.
23:01That's 100 pound difference from the last description.
23:05Build, stocky, ethnicity, Caucasian.
23:10Fair, ashy brown hair.
23:12(audience laughing) (chuckles)
23:15Eye shape, round,
23:17eye color, brown,
23:18face shape, NA.
23:21(chuckles) (audience laughing)
23:26Husky build,
23:28long, oval-shaped head,
23:30brown eyes, long chin, mustache.
23:33(audience laughing)
23:35Yes (mumbles).
23:37Here's one that says tall, around five-foot-nine.
23:41(chuckles) (audience laughing)
23:44Has a mustache, wearing a suit.
23:47(audience laughing)
23:50Has brown eyes, has an oval-shaped head.
23:53Well, I guess I have an oval-shaped head.
23:55(chuckles) (audience laughing)
23:57Nobody mentions my hair loss.
24:00Where's the detail?
24:02So all you English students go,
24:04"Good writing is detailed writing."
24:06Where's the detail?
24:07Where's the description?
24:12This one's a little bit more descriptive.
24:13Six feet to six-one, 160 to 170 pounds,
24:17not too muscular.
24:19(audience laughing)
24:20Oh she goes, oh not too muscular, but strong.
24:23(audience laughing) (chuckles)
24:25White. (audience laughing)
24:27Ginger-yellow, ivory-colored hair.
24:31(audience laughing)
24:32Oval head shape, you got the oval part right (chuckles).
24:36Brown eyes, glasses.
24:38First time we heard about glasses.
24:41Almond-shaped eyes.
24:43Yeah, so...
24:44(audience laughing)
24:47Has a full beard and mustache that connect,
24:51regular kind of nose, long and thin,
24:54so our best one so far as description.
24:57So as a forensic artist,
24:58our job is to elicit this information out of you,
25:02and we're gonna talk about what's
25:04called a cognitive interview.
25:07I'm gonna go through the steps of what I would do
25:08and what I do do with witnesses to get
25:10them to remember a little bit more clearly
25:12with a little bit more detail than this,
25:14but this one wasn't bad.
25:18Sierra did a nice job, olive-ish skin.
25:21Again, five-11, 160.
25:27This picture is six years old
25:29so this is what I look like six years ago.
25:30Talk about age regression.
25:32(chuckles) (audience laughing)
25:35So I had a little more hair then.
25:39Six-two, when I'm standing straight,
25:42I may be a little bit more.
25:45Yeah.
25:48I am Jewish.
25:49It is an oval head,
25:53but a good witness is specific in their description
25:56and a good forensic artist will elicit detailed information.
26:01Five-11, 230, black hair, pale skin.
26:06Five-10, 200.
26:08Nobody thinks I'm as tall as I am.
26:10Why is that?
26:11Is it 'cause I'm lower than you and you're higher?
26:15This one, brown hair, beard, glasses, white.
26:18Well, that describes every Wall Street crook there ever was.
26:21(audience laughing)
26:25So let's go through the process
26:26of how we do a forensic drawing
26:29and then we'll look at the Ronald Cotton.
26:32So there are three ways to do a forensics drawing.
26:35You can do it hand-drawing, which I prefer,
26:37and I prefer teaching hand-drawing.
26:40There's software,
26:43Identi-Kit,
26:44which is what they used in the Ronald Cotton case,
26:46although they didn't use a software.
26:47They actually used the transparencies.
26:50They didn't have forensic drawing software in 1984,
26:52well, maybe the FBI did,
26:54but the Greensboro, was it,
26:57what, North Carolina?
26:58What is it, Burlington, North Carolina?
27:00Burlington, North Carolina.
27:01They didn't have a dedicated forensic artist
27:04so what they do is they use Identi-Kit,
27:07which is a manufactured way to do a sketch.
27:10It's a little bit like Mr. Potato Head.
27:12You choose the eyes.
27:14So there are 200 eyes to choose from,
27:15you choose the eyes.
27:17There's 200 mouths to choose from,
27:18you choose the mouth,
27:20and together they make a composite.
27:22So that's this word, composite,
27:24the different facial features together as one,
27:27and then there's a hybrid.
27:28So this is actually,
27:30they tried to do a recreation of Jesus.
27:32This is a forensic artist's recreation of Jesus
27:36using both hand-drawing and software.
27:44There's a five-step process.
27:45First, the crime takes place.
27:49This is a visual, physical,
27:50and emotional experience for the witness.
27:53There's a lot going on in their mind.
27:57Memory is a little shaky, as we did,
27:58and we just proved that,
28:00how you looked at me for 15 minutes
28:01and you dropped the ball hard.
28:06I would've escaped for sure.
28:07Either that or somebody else would've
28:09been put in prison, like Ronald Cotton,
28:11but we'll talk about that next.
28:14So someone's a victim of a crime.
28:17The witness then describes a suspect to a forensic artist
28:19during what's called a cognitive interview,
28:21and we'll go into what a cognitive interview is.
28:24The forensic artist creates a first draft
28:26using notes and photo references.
28:28They then take that sketch back to the witness and says,
28:31"How am I doing here?
28:32"Is this close?"
28:34The witness helps in the editing process.
28:37This is something that did not happen in the Ronald Cotton.
28:41What the police did,
28:42they showed her the Identi-Kit composite,
28:45and then and she was like, "Yeah, that's him.
28:48"That looks really good,"
28:49and that was kind of the end of it.
28:50There wasn't really a nuanced detailed
28:52editing process that happened.
28:55In fact did any of you remember
28:56how long the whole process took place?
29:00It was like around page 20 or 30 in Picking Cotton.
29:0490 minutes from the beginning to end they had this sketch.
29:10Five is very important 'cause once the sketch is completed,
29:13the detectives then have to use the sketch very effectively,
29:16and we'll talk about that a little bit later.
29:19So in the cognitive interview,
29:20it's very important that you get the witness to remember.
29:24So first you build a rapport.
29:27You tell the witness, "I'm here to help you.
29:29"There are no wrong answers.
29:31"Whatever you remember would be great.
29:33"Start from the beginning.
29:34"Tell me what you remember from this crime."
29:36First, you say, "I'm very sorry about your loss.
29:39"I'm sorry you had to go through this."
29:41In a way you have to be very gentle in speaking with the
29:44witness 'cause usually when I'm called in, it's a trauma.
29:47It's either an attempted murder or a rape.
29:49It's a very serious crime so you have to be very
29:51sensitive with the witness and build rapport.
29:55Then you ask an open-ended question.
29:56You say, "Tell me everything you remember about his face,"
30:03and you let them speak and you don't interrupt,
30:08which is a very difficult thing to do.
30:10Listening is a very giving act.
30:12As a forensic artist,
30:13you have to be an excellent listener.
30:16You have to start sifting through the information:
30:18Which is more accurate, which is less accurate?
30:21Which should I feature in my sketch?
30:24Which aspects of the face should I feature in my sketch?
30:26Which should I leave out a little bit?
30:32Stage two,
30:35the witness gives an open-ended narrative.
30:40Once the witness has exhausted all the information,
30:43they possibly can't describe anymore,
30:45you can then go in based on the information
30:47that you took notes on and probe for more specificity.
30:50So with you guys, I say, "You said he had an oval face.
30:54"Tell me about some of his facial features.
30:56"What were the shape of his lips?"
30:58Not one of you went into like,
30:59what were the shape of my lips or what is the proportion?
31:02Was it a large nose compared to my lips?
31:05Were my eyes large or proportionate?
31:08Were they wide apart?
31:09Were they close together?
31:10Was there a bulb at the end of my nose?
31:13Was my top lip bigger than my bottom lip?
31:18Did I have big ears?
31:22One of you got into the details of my goatee,
31:24whatever this is on my face.
31:26You got into the details of
31:30that the mustache connected to a goatee of some kind,
31:32but I say, "Oh, he had a mustache."
31:36I mean that's important information you left out.
31:38So as a forensic artist,
31:39I probe that and I try to elicit
31:42more information out of you.
31:45Stage four, like a piece of writing,
31:47you always have to edit what you do.
31:49So I like taking my sketches back to the witness and say,
31:51"One a scale of one to 10, how close am I right now?"
31:55They'll say, "Six or seven.
31:57"What would you add or take away to this?"
32:00and the witness can guide me.
32:01They can say, "Oh, you got his chin right,
32:03"but I think the nose was a little wider."
32:05So then I adjust the nose, and back and forth.
32:08So we're a team.
32:09Then I actually like to sit side-by-side with my witnesses.
32:12Why do think sitting side-by-side
32:14is better than sitting across from them?
32:17I'm sorry, speak up.
32:22You're comfortable and you're giving them trust, very good.
32:27You're like a team when you sit side-by-side.
32:30If I was sitting across from them,
32:31what is the vibe or the feeling?
32:33It's like, yeah, it's an imbalance of power.
32:35They've already been through a crime, a horrific crime.
32:38You don't wanna make them feel any worse
32:40so I like sitting side-by-side and working as a team.
32:42I let them touch the erasers.
32:44I let them touch the pencils.
32:47They're part of the team,
32:50unless you close the interview.
32:52You tell them, "If you remember anything else,
32:54"be sure to come back to me and we'll fix it,"
32:56'cause sometimes they'll go home and at night,
32:59they'll say, "Oh I forgot to tell him
33:00"he had a dimple on his chin,"
33:02and they can come back to me the next day
33:04and I can draw the dimple.
33:06So you have to remember this.
33:09You saw how difficult it was when you tried to describe me.
33:14Imagine then,
33:15the forensic artist has to take the information
33:17that you give and then re-visualize it.
33:21So it starts as a visual.
33:23The crime is visual.
33:24You're looking at something,
33:28then the witness describes it with words,
33:33and then it's your job to then turn
33:34those words back into a visual.
33:36So it's a little bit like vapor
33:38turns to water, turns to ice.
33:41A lot can be lost in translation
33:42so this is an extremely nuanced and difficult process.
33:46It doesn't mean we don't do it
33:49because if there's only a eyewitness testimony,
33:52we wanna make a sketch 'cause we wanna catch the bad guys.
33:58So here where mistakes can be made,
34:02poor, missing or misleading information from the witness.
34:05Remember that sometimes it's best not to do a sketch.
34:08If I had to compile all of these descriptions,
34:13I think
34:15I'd be able to get the picture.
34:16Certainly I'd draw an oval face.
34:19As far as the height was concerned,
34:20you guys really were way low.
34:22Some of you guys thought I was skinny.
34:24Some of you guys thought I was heavy.
34:26When a person is tall, those bones weigh,
34:30and the pizza weighs,
34:32(audience laughing)
34:34but I think I'd be able to get an amalgam,
34:37taking an amalgam from your descriptions.
34:39I think I'd be able to get a close facsimile,
34:41although your descriptions
34:42on the whole were not very detailed.
34:45So if the information that the
34:47witness is giving you sounds sketchy
34:51or inconsistent,
34:53or one time I was, for Yonkers Police Department,
34:56I was doing a sketch and she saw the back,
34:59like she saw the back of the,
35:01it was an attempted rape in a park and it was dark.
35:05He was African-American and she only saw
35:08the back of his or the side of his head.
35:11I told the detective after interviewing her for an hour,
35:14I said, "I have to tell you something.
35:15"I know this is gonna cost me money
35:17"because I get money when I'm hired."
35:19I said, "I don't think we should do the sketch.
35:23"We basically have a good sketch of his ear.
35:26"What are we gonna do?
35:27"We're gonna put a ear on the local news?"
35:33Sometimes it's best not to execute a forensic drawing,
35:35depending on the information you get from the witness.
35:38Maybe the forensic artist isn't so good
35:41and there about 200-plus forensic
35:43artists in the United States,
35:45every major city has one,
35:47some have two, like New York City, Detective Perez,
35:54but not all the forensic artist are very good.
35:59Sometimes, in the case of Picking Cotton,
36:01the chief software Identi-Kit isn't the best way to do it.
36:05I'm always a big fan of a trained artist with a hand sketch
36:08'cause you can do a much more detailed and nuanced
36:12sketch using your hand than you can software,
36:14and we'll see why.
36:17Lastly, once a sketch is disseminated,
36:19I talk to the detectives to use that sketch well.
36:22For Yonkers Police Department,
36:23one time I did a sketch and I said,
36:25"Well you're gonna put this in the
36:26"newspapers in the local news."
36:29One of the detectives was like, "No.
36:30"We don't really have a very good
36:31"relationship with the local newspaper.
36:33"We got into an argument with them
36:35"last year and there's kind of a feud."
36:37I said, "Feud?"
36:39I said, "You gotta suspect.
36:41"Put it in the newspaper, man!
36:43"That's the whole point of this.
36:44"If you're not gonna disseminate and use the sketch,
36:46"what's the point?"
36:49Here's the Ronald Cotton sketch or it's not even a sketch,
36:51it's a transparency using Identi-Kit tool,
36:571984,
37:01took 90 minutes.
37:03I mean 90 minutes for an interview and a composite,
37:05that's pretty quick.
37:11If I read correctly, there were two rape victims,
37:14one identified number four in the lineup
37:18and then Jennifer Thompson identified number five.
37:21Doctor Smith earlier was saying that number two looks
37:23like number five a lot or that's Mister Cotton, number five,
37:28but this is a blurry picture and it's 30 years old.
37:36It's harder for
37:41white people to describe black people.
37:43It's harder for Asian people to describe white people.
37:46It's easier for us to describe people within our own race
37:49'cause we're used to seeing our face,
37:51so then there's that complication.
37:53So witnesses and memory
37:58can be distorted based on ethnicity
38:00and our exposure (mumbles).
38:01In Queens we have an advantage
38:03'cause we see all sorts of ethnicities,
38:05but it's still harder for a
38:07white person to describe an Asian face
38:09and an Asian person to describe a white face
38:12than it is to describe someone within their own culture.
38:15So he was arrested (clears throat).
38:23The eventual criminal who confessed
38:26to the crime is on the right.
38:29Did the sketch look more like Ronald Cotton or Poole,
38:36or does it look like neither of them?
38:39It was kind of a hasty,
38:40it's not even a clear sketch.
38:43I mean Identi-Kit, this is a case where I wouldn't want,
38:46listen, if a relative of mine went missing,
38:49I wouldn't want them to use Identi-Kit.
38:51I will want a skilled forensic artist to do a hand-drawing
38:54because there's no nuance in his face.
38:56There's no detail.
39:01They're not alone.
39:03I'm gonna show you some examples of some
39:04poor sketches over the course of history.
39:08This is the Zodiac Killer from 1969.
39:10Anyone see that movie, the Zodiac?
39:13It was a few years ago,
39:15and this case is from the late 60s.
39:18This man killed five people.
39:21He was a serial killer and this is the best
39:24San Francisco Police could do in a sketch.
39:27I'm not saying that they had the most
39:29accurate information from the witness,
39:31but you could at least draw the face
39:33so it looks three-dimensional.
39:34I mean this is a basic drawing class.
39:36I mean there's really no detail in this face.
39:40So this is San Francisco Police drawing a serial killer.
39:44Are you kidding me?
39:46It's kind of outrageous.
39:49How about this one?
39:50(chuckles) (audience laughing)
39:53This falls under the case of,
39:55sometimes if you don't have enough information,
39:58don't do the sketch!
40:01You could see the eyes, I guess,
40:02but the eyes aren't even drawn well.
40:05Vallejo, California,
40:06I guess they have a problem
40:07in the east bay or in the bay area.
40:09They got a problem with sketches there.
40:12(audience laughing) (chuckles)
40:14Yeah.
40:15- [Man] Wow.
40:17- Well, I think they found their man.
40:20(audience laughing)
40:23Yeah,
40:26made it easy for the detectives.
40:31I am not alone.
40:33Here's one of my sketches from Yonkers Police Department.
40:36What did I do wrong?
40:38This is an actual attempted murder case that the detectives,
40:41this is an actual sketch from, when did I do it, 2009.
40:46- [Woman] The ear?
40:46- Okay, so what did I screw up?
40:49- [Woman] The ear?
40:50- Yeah, one ear's bigger than the other.
40:51- [Woman] Is it the eye?
40:52- And one eye is bigger than the other.
40:55(audience chattering)
40:58Well, the mouth being crooked is not so bad.
41:03This was an interesting case where she spoke Spanish.
41:06I took French in high school,
41:07which is the dumbest decision I ever made.
41:09(audience laughing)
41:11So I'm doing a sketch from a Hispanic witness.
41:16Now this suspect was Mexican, but she said,
41:19"Oh, he's a light Mexican, like Northern Mexican."
41:23I said, "Okay,"
41:24so I did the sketch and interview through a translator,
41:28which makes it even harder.
41:30So at the end of the sketch, I always like to say,
41:32"Okay, how am I doing on a scale of one to 10?"
41:35So I said to the police officer,
41:37"Ask her on a scale of one to 10, how close am I?"
41:40and I heard the the witness say, "Nuebe."
41:45So I said, "Nuebe.
41:48"I'm done," (audience laughing)
41:51but we make mistakes, mistakes happen.
41:54It's easy to make mistakes.
41:55There's a lot of pressure
41:57because you wanna catch the suspect.
41:59So I'm guilty too, but I mean he had a scar.
42:04He had a hoop earring and a ball earring.
42:08He had a hoop earring on the right ear
42:10and a ball earring on the left.
42:13So they never caught 'em
42:17and I wonder if that's my fault.
42:19This is serious business.
42:21You have to be accurate.
42:24You do the best you can.
42:28So knowing that problems happen,
42:30such as in the Ronald Cotton case and my own history
42:33and as you saw from around the country,
42:36I developed a course at John Jay College of Criminal Justice
42:39to combine critical thinking and forensic drawing
42:42so that I could graduate better forensic artist
42:45so we can catch more criminals more efficiently.
42:50This was, oh, wow.
42:52I think that's about eight years ago, maybe 10 years ago.
42:57I guess I gained weight.
42:59Now if you look at the prerequisites,
43:01how many people here are in the
43:02Justice Academy, Justice Academy?
43:04One, that's it, two.
43:07So you'll be at John Jay.
43:10Take my course when you get there.
43:15Why do you need basic drawing to take my class?
43:18Why do I have two prerequisites?
43:20Why do I need basic drawing?
43:22- [Man] Isn't it (speaking off microphone) art skills?
43:25- Because you want pre-existing art skills
43:26because this is advanced drawing, good,
43:30but why do you need English 101?
43:33(woman speaking off microphone)
43:34Description and descriptive writing
43:35and just being able to organize information
43:38because in forensic drawing, there's a lot of words,
43:41there's a lot of text and you need to know
43:43how to organize text and be very aware
43:45of description and descriptive writing.
43:47Very good.
43:5112 years ago. (audience laughing)
43:54- [Man] Why do you look like that?
43:55(audience laughing)
43:57- I was describing something really important.
44:00(chuckles) (audience laughing)
44:02That's how I look (chuckles).
44:04- [Woman] (speaking off microphone) that right now?
44:05- Well, I was a boy, I was a boy.
44:08Man, that hair.
44:14So I wanna just quickly compare the skills
44:16that you have in an English class or a developmental
44:20reading or writing class and those of a forensic artist.
44:23So the ability to read, write, think, listen,
44:25analyze, visualize, create, edit,
44:28and speak are universal, transferable,
44:30and essential skills in college,
44:33as well as in forensic art.
44:34So this is Bloom's Taxonomy.
44:37By the time you graduate from college,
44:39every level of this you should be able to sort of execute.
44:43It starts with remembering what you read
44:45or remembering what you see and at the very top,
44:49creating on your own.
44:51In the middle are the very sort of interesting
44:53and very necessary elements of critical thinking
44:56to synthesize, evaluate information,
44:58analyze information, put the pieces together.
45:03So in high school, if you notice,
45:05you did a lot of tests on,
45:06what year was George Washington born
45:09and how many citizens are there in New York City?
45:13The understanding and remembering and the knowledge part,
45:16but in college,
45:18we tend to sort of exercise and use the higher end
45:20of this critical thinking pyramid, Bloom's Taxonomy.
45:24I guess the part of the middle
45:25would be remediation, what I teach,
45:30that sort of overlap between high school and college
45:34where we're starting to get into synthesis,
45:37but we're still having a little trouble with understanding.
45:44I would argue that visual should be in this pyramid.
45:47Visualization is a very essential tool that we all use.
45:51I'm gonna put that in there.
45:52Yeah, there we go.
45:53Here we go, all right, in there.
45:57In forensic art, we use all of these things.
46:01So in my forensic drawing course at John Jay
46:04or whether I'm teaching English here at QCC,
46:07we're really learning the same things.
46:10We're listening, we're annotating,
46:13we're analyzing information, we're synthesizing information.
46:17My students are creating films this term
46:19where they're organizing an interview
46:21of a Holocaust survivor and putting it
46:23into a cohesive unit, same with an essay.
46:30So here I just articulated everything I just said here.
46:34So forensic art is really like a one-stop shop
46:37of college-level study skill, as is English 101.
46:41So what I do is when the students come into my class,
46:44I have them do self-portraits
46:46and I have them do self-portraits using software,
46:50except the difference is I have them do
46:52a self-portrait without using a mirror,
46:54remember what you look like.
46:56You think you could do a
46:57self-portrait without using a mirror?
46:58You think you know what you look like?
47:00Pretty good.
47:01Let's see how they did.
47:03Let's see how they did.
47:04So he's thinking about what he looks like.
47:07He's in that moment where he's synthesizing information.
47:12He's thinking about his nose.
47:14He's thinking about his complexion.
47:15He's thinking about his head.
47:18The key to a good forensic drawing
47:20is five critical facial distances.
47:24None of you guys sort of went into this detail,
47:26but if I were interviewing you, I'd get into it.
47:29"How is the distance between my bottom lip and my chin?
47:32"How did that compare,
47:34"proportion to the distance between the
47:35"tip of my nose to the top of my lip?
47:38"How wide was my head compared to the width of my eyes?"
47:41So we get a proportion.
47:42So if you can get these five critical
47:44facial distances down, this proportion,
47:46you can make a good sketch.
47:48So we have the five critical facial distances.
47:50This is why this is such a good sketch right here.
47:53It's proportional, it's proportional.
47:58How did she do, one my students, how'd she do?
48:03She didn't look in a mirror,
48:05so I put them in the witness' shoes.
48:07I also put them in a forensic artist's shoes.
48:09Did she do well?
48:11I think she was honest.
48:12She's a beautiful girl.
48:14She has a large nose, true,
48:16but she's still beautiful,
48:16but she said, "You know what, I do have a long nose,"
48:19and she went for it and that's why it looks like her.
48:27A lot of times what happens is when we do self-portraits,
48:31we wanna make ourselves a little manlier than we are,
48:34or the girls, they make themselves a little thinner,
48:36a little more feminine than they really are.
48:41For instance, this student.
48:44I'm not saying this student wasn't a good-looking guy,
48:47(audience laughing)
48:48but he kinda made himself to be a little bit
48:50of like a Greco-Roman wrestler on the right,
48:53not quite what he, yeah.
48:56He must have gotten a new,
48:57he broke his nose at some point.
48:59You see the nose?
49:02It slants.
49:05He gave himself a nice, perfect,
49:06straight nose in this rendition.
49:09He did an excellent job and he did an
49:11excellent job because his five critical
49:13facial distances are pretty much spot on,
49:16so perfect proportion.
49:18The only thing he messed up was he made
49:20himself a little heavier in the sketch
49:23and you notice a couple millimeters difference
49:25between his actual face and the composite.
49:29How'd he do?
49:30(chuckles) (audience laughing)
49:38He's from the the Island of Dominica,
49:42Dominica.
49:49That's what's called an overhanging brow
49:51where his eyes are really recessed in the back
49:53so it's a very prominent brow.
49:57That's a strong skull he's got.
50:00He couldn't quite get his eyes to recess
50:03into the back of his head like it is in actuality
50:05and those cheekbones are, I mean, they're very prominent.
50:09He could've got a little bit more.
50:13Sergeant Sollitti or now Captain Sollitti
50:15of Jersey City Police Department.
50:17He's the forensic artist at Jersey City Police,
50:20one of my students.
50:23He's kinda got a baby face.
50:24He made himself a little older in his composite
50:28and he made himself a little heavier in this composite.
50:31Notice how he's off on the width of his face.
50:37So, oh, my lord.
50:38(chuckles) (audience laughing)
50:41One of my students, yeah, it used to be me.
50:45That's, yeah, maybe 15 years ago.
50:49- [Man] Spot on.
50:50(audience laughing)
50:52- One of my students, it was a Christmas gift.
50:55My students signed it.
50:56They did it and I was embarrassed.
50:59(audience laughing) (chuckles)
51:05To get them off of the software, I get them onto drawing.
51:08Remember when I showed you the different
51:09ethnicities and the skulls?
51:12It's important that the students
51:13learn how to draw the skull.
51:14So I have
51:1720 skulls in the art room there and we draw the skull.
51:23Yeah he's having coffee there with the skeleton
51:28and he's listening to music and it's really kinda fun,
51:30and look at what they came up with, man?
51:32Very nice drawing,
51:34so this is a nice foundation.
51:36You wanna become a forensic artist?
51:37Know the human face, and it starts with the skull.
51:40So these are foundational,
51:42then we practice interviewing skills.
51:45No, what do I say here?
51:47Oh, then we do other drawing exercises.
51:49I have them bring in a picture, I slice it in half,
51:53and then they do the other side
51:55so half of it's a photograph and half of it's a drawing.
51:58So this is good.
51:59This is like training wheels,
52:01and eventually I take the training wheels off.
52:06So I said, "Bring in a picture of anybody you want,
52:08"a friend, girlfriend, whatever,
52:10"and finish the other side of the face."
52:17I think they look pretty good,
52:21then what I do is I give 'em two pictures and I say,
52:23"Combine the two pictures as if they mated."
52:28I should really have the comparison photos to show,
52:30but these are very intricate, it's a very difficult,
52:33and in fact the one on the upper left,
52:35one picture is of a woman and one's of a man
52:38and they combined it into one
52:39humanoid on the upper left there.
52:41So you could see some facial features
52:44that are actually feminine in the upper left,
52:46but then it was also half-man.
52:48So it's half-woman, half-man.
52:49I don't know what you call that.
52:51Human (chuckles). (audience laughing)
52:56Students at our classes.
52:57I have the students assess how they're doing.
53:00I have them peer review.
53:02We have midterm critiques.
53:04This was, six, five, five and a half years ago.
53:07She's discussing her successes and failures.
53:10The students help her out.
53:12I say, "This is what I think was working well.
53:15"This is what I think you need to improve on
53:17"on the second half of the class."
53:23Remember that, what was it,
53:26the Zodiac sketch from San Francisco.
53:29The Zodiac sketch was basically
53:30a stage one-and-a-half drawing.
53:32The goal is to get to that stage three,
53:34a fully rendered drawing.
53:37So many sketches end up at stage two.
53:40They don't make it to stage three
53:41because the artists are not skilled enough.
53:43So my goal with my students is,
53:45"Always get them to stage three,
53:46"a detailed rendering, three-dimensional look.
53:49"Get away from stage one.
53:50"Let's put some pigment on the paper.
53:52"Take a chance, you have erasers.
53:53"We can edit."
53:56This is one of my favorite artists.
53:59His name is Gil Zamora.
54:01He's a sketch artist for San Jose, California.
54:04What I like about Gil Zamora is that,
54:08there's an ethereal quality to his sketches
54:10that they almost look like memories.
54:13They're kinda detailed,
54:14but they're also a little fuzzy too
54:17so they capture the essence of who the
54:20suspect is without that sharp detail.
54:23So I think he's a really wonderful sketch artist.
54:29Indianapolis Police Department.
54:32I like the three-quarter view.
54:33That's an interesting take.
54:40My students at work.
54:44Then I take the training wheels off.
54:48What I do is I have a mock witness come in,
54:51a friend of mine, the secretary of the department,
54:55someone I know.
54:58At first the class interviews 'em as a group
55:02'cause there's safety in numbers.
55:03So if someone's asking a question
55:06or fails to ask a question,
55:07another member of the class can fill in.
55:17Here's my mock witness and I told her,
55:19she's a friend of mine,
55:20I said, "Describe your husband to my students."
55:23I made it easy for her, describe her husband's face,
55:26but I told her, "just pretend it was armed robbery case."
55:30So she was saying, "He came up from behind me
55:31"and he hit me with a wrench,
55:32"and then, 'Give me your money.'"
55:34So my students, so basically,
55:35this is their kind of final exam (coughs).
55:39Notice the note-taking.
55:41Notice the listening.
55:45He's not even looking at her.
55:47He's really listening.
55:52In the probing stage, stage three, he's like,
55:55"What does his chin look like?
55:56"Did his chin look like this?
55:58She said, "No, I think it looked more like this."
56:00So there's a lot of good communication happening here.
56:04There's a lot of information that sort of
56:08being shared.
56:10Concentration, this is a moment of concentration right now.
56:16Again, see this guy right here?
56:19I love this.
56:21He's having a dialogue with her.
56:23"Did his chin look like this?
56:24"No, I think it looked like this."
56:25What's he doing?
56:27He's absorbing it, man.
56:28This is a moment of concentration right here.
56:31If I could frame a picture about learning,
56:33I mean this is it right here.
56:35He's in the zone right here.
56:39(clears throat)
56:43We take the notes.
56:45We use the notes (coughs).
56:49We contemplate about the notes.
56:50We think about what the suspect might look like.
56:52We're putting the pieces together.
56:56Here's the notes.
56:57The witness comes in and she helps the artist.
57:00"You're doing well in the nose.
57:01"I'd fix the ears.
57:02She helps them.
57:04She's going down the line.
57:06I had them use software for this one.
57:08Whoops.
57:11Here's the husband.
57:13(coughs)
57:15He's five-foot-nine, 175.
57:17See this?
57:21He's Jewish,
57:23lives on Upper West Side.
57:25Look at this, hairy chest.
57:27So the wife described him as having a hairy chest.
57:35So which one is your favorite?
57:40Middle left, I heard.
57:42(audience chattering off microphone)
57:44What about this one?
57:45- [Audience] No.
57:46- What about this one?
57:49If you squint your eyes, I kinda like,
57:51if you combined all six, it would kinda look like him.
57:55I think it's hard.
57:56This is hard, by the way.
57:57Yeah, I think they did a pretty good job.
58:00So this is in the middle of the process.
58:02This is what happens.
58:03Notice the notes on the side here.
58:05Look at all the tools here.
58:07It's basically pencils and eraser.
58:11Here's an electric eraser.
58:12It's called an electric eraser.
58:14It really helps you erase,
58:17so it's powerful. (audience laughing)
58:19It's got batteries.
58:22So, again, back to the critical thinking skills.
58:27We use the FBI Identification Catalogue to help.
58:31Remember recognition versus recall?
58:35So the FBI book,
58:36they can look and they categorize his nose and chin and eyes
58:40and different shaped heads and they can help choose.
58:43So they can choose different models.
58:47Both the witnesses and the artist
58:48could use these books as a guide.
58:52There's Sergeant Sollitti, Jersey City.
58:57Remember that sketch I did, I showed you?
59:00Whoops.
59:01Here are the notes from my sketch.
59:05(coughs) Armed robbery,
59:07September 6, 2007,
59:09and I did a little what's called a thumbnail sketch.
59:11So while I'm doing my initial sketch,
59:14I show the witness my little, I said, "How am I doing here?
59:17"Is this about the proportion?"
59:19She goes, "Yeah,"
59:21so this is really the more detailed
59:23version of this based on my notes here.
59:26There were other notes,
59:28but we put the pieces together as best we can,
59:31but there's listening,
59:32there's remembering, there's synthesis,
59:35there's evaluation, there's analysis.
59:37It's visual, it's verbal.
59:38It's a puzzle,
59:41with high-stakes.
59:45(clears throat)
59:47Here's one of my student's drawings.
59:49How'd they do?
59:52The witness described the top lip as larger than the bottom.
59:55He took it a little too far, don't you think?
59:57(chuckles) (audience laughing)
59:59But in fact, and this is very rare, by the way,
1:00:02most people's bottom lips are bigger than their top.
1:00:06Maybe one in five or one in seven,
1:00:09the top lip will be equal or bigger.
1:00:11Well, in this case,
1:00:12his top lip is actually bigger
1:00:13than his bottom, which is pretty rare,
1:00:16but they took it a little too far.
1:00:17What about the little mustache here?
1:00:22You have to appreciate how hard this is.
1:00:26You have a John Jay forensic artist
1:00:28student doing the best they can.
1:00:30Still better than that Zodiac sketch.
1:00:35How did one of my students do here?
1:00:41They got the glasses.
1:00:43"Glasses were on top of the head," the witness said.
1:00:48Very interesting.
1:00:51I showed this because, again,
1:00:52remember when I said I did a sketch
1:00:53and it was translated through Spanish?
1:00:58The student was from Israel.
1:01:02She was listening in English, taking notes in Hebrew,
1:01:09and the numbers are the same,
1:01:12but talk about
1:01:15the languages of both image and text-based language.
1:01:19She's thinking on four different levels.
1:01:21She's listening in English, taking notes in Hebrew,
1:01:25and then translating back into an image.
1:01:28So she's working on here proportions here,
1:01:30the five critical distances I described earlier.
1:01:34I just thought it was interesting
1:01:35'cause her notes were in Hebrew.
1:01:36I just thought it was wild.
1:01:41Sergeant Sollitti, how'd he do?
1:01:46He's a working forensic artist now.
1:01:48He's probably doing a sketch right now in Jersey City.
1:01:50There's a lot of crime there.
1:01:53The witness said he looked like a southern hick.
1:01:55(audience laughing) (chuckles)
1:01:57"He had a dopey look on his face,"
1:02:00the witness said, the mock witness.
1:02:03Buck tooth, buck tooth.
1:02:06So Sergeant Sollitti, now Captain Sollitti,
1:02:11droopy eyes, he looks sleepy,
1:02:15southern looking, like he's from Kentucky or something.
1:02:18(audience laughing)
1:02:20These are very good descriptions
1:02:21and I think he captures the essence.
1:02:24It's a very interesting face, very interesting,
1:02:26a lot to work with here.
1:02:31This is Doctor Larry Kobilinsky,
1:02:32the world's foremost DNA expert.
1:02:35He was walking down the hall.
1:02:36I said, "Hey Doctor Kobilinsky, come in.
1:02:37"Would you like to be a mock witnesses?"
1:02:39He's like, "Sure."
1:02:40He was like on CNN that night
1:02:41talking about the Johnny Ramsey case.
1:02:44So he was helping out the course being a fake witness.
1:02:48I think he described one of his students.
1:02:53So look at my students.
1:02:55Look at the sort of hand,
1:02:58there's a lot of physical language in communication.
1:03:00"His eyes look like this.
1:03:02"I was surprised,"
1:03:04and he's listening to my student
1:03:07who's asking him a question.
1:03:08He's pondering.
1:03:09My students taking notes here, there's a lot going on,
1:03:13a lot of information both visual and verbal being exchanged.
1:03:17It's my student' job to synthesize this information.
1:03:22Why is this not such a good sketch?
1:03:25It looks a lot older in the sketch, very good.
1:03:28He's a boy.
1:03:30He's a 19-year-old.
1:03:31It makes him look 29 or 39.
1:03:35The scar that the witness described,
1:03:38it looks like a smile mark or smile line.
1:03:41It should be a lot higher.
1:03:42There's where the scar should go,
1:03:43but as we learned, the memory is very difficult.
1:03:46Memory is
1:03:49delicate.
1:03:54More of my students.
1:03:58Here's the suspect.
1:03:59Here's some hand-drawings.
1:04:01We're off of the software at this point.
1:04:04Which is your favorite?
1:04:08Tatyana's, mine is this one.
1:04:15I like this one.
1:04:16This one goes for it, I think.
1:04:19There's a lot going on in this nose in the drawing,
1:04:22but you know what, his nose is kinda,
1:04:24I guess the shape here is pretty good.
1:04:27This one, this one,
1:04:29this one looks like something from cats (mumbles),
1:04:32(audience laughing) (chuckles)
1:04:34but, hey, these are solid attempts.
1:04:41The difference between male and female is seemingly simple,
1:04:45but a little bit difficult.
1:04:47I have my students draw men and women.
1:04:49I have them do at least three ethnicities
1:04:52during the course of a semester
1:04:54and I have them do both men and women
1:04:57because guess what, women commit crimes too, maybe only 10%,
1:05:01but I want my students to know how to draw men and women
1:05:06in the event that it is in fact
1:05:07a woman committing the crime.
1:05:09So what I did is I actually went
1:05:12to the New York State or in this one, no.
1:05:15The Florida website for Corrections has a listing
1:05:19with photographs of each inmate in their prison.
1:05:22This is public knowledge.
1:05:23So I just download an actual convict that we, whoop,
1:05:29anyway we sketch actual criminals.
1:05:31So this is somebody who's actually in prison
1:05:33and my students rendering that person from memory.
1:05:39So we had a exhibit
1:05:42and I was featured in it.
1:05:45This was when, 2009.
1:05:51There's one of my former students
1:05:52and Donna Fontana who's a forensic anthropologist
1:05:55from New Jersey State Police
1:05:58who does skeletal reconstructions.
1:06:02That's her at work,
1:06:03taking the actual skull
1:06:05and simulating what the person looked like
1:06:07based on the measurements from their skull.
1:06:12So she brought photographs of her process into the gallery.
1:06:16She's talking to my students about the process.
1:06:22I don't know where I'm looking here.
1:06:24(audience laughing) (chuckles)
1:06:25I don't think I'm talking to anybody actually.
1:06:29So some of my prior students.
1:06:33Once again, CUNY, you got to love the racial diversity here.
1:06:37This is the Israeli student who took those notes.
1:06:43This was like the president of the senior class.
1:06:46He's the president of student government.
1:06:47He's got that smile (chuckles).
1:06:53There's the president of John Jay, Jeremy Travis.
1:06:57That's me.
1:07:00We had a famous artist, Jonathan Santlofer,
1:07:02who writes about forensic drawing.
1:07:04He came and he's autographing a book for me here,
1:07:07so I'm happy about that.
1:07:08(audience laughing)
1:07:11I thought that was really cool.
1:07:12Death Artist.
1:07:14- [Man] You looked more than happy.
1:07:15(audience laughing)
1:07:18- If you wanna read more about forensic art,
1:07:20this is fiction, but it's really cool fiction,
1:07:22and it goes into forensic art in a little bit more detail.
1:07:27My students admiring their skulls.
1:07:30I think the president of John Jay's drunk here.
1:07:32I think this is whiskey,
1:07:33(audience laughing)
1:07:35and he's talking to one of my students and I don't know.
1:07:38Yeah, no, he's a really wonderful man,
1:07:40very supportive of this program so...
1:07:46I put out the software in the exhibit
1:07:48so the students could or, excuse me,
1:07:50so the gallery goers could try their
1:07:52hand at making a self-portrait.
1:07:57Oh, here are the combination drawings.
1:08:00So what they did is they took the two faces
1:08:02and they turned into a third face,
1:08:04so some aspects of this face and some aspects of this face.
1:08:08So it's called a combination facial exercise.
1:08:15One professor was doing a Frankenstein
1:08:17book for his English class.
1:08:18He says, "Can I use your sketch for the cover of my book?"
1:08:21I said, "Yeah, for $500 you can," and he says, "Done."
1:08:25So I got a check for $500 and my
1:08:26sketch is on the Frankenstein book.
1:08:29That was interesting.
1:08:32The New Museum called me.
1:08:33They said, "We need a forensic artist."
1:08:35We're almost done, and then we'll have questions.
1:08:38They said,
1:08:39"We need an artist to draw live on the museum floor.
1:08:43"We want you to draw live,
1:08:45"people to sit with you and you're gonna
1:08:47"do a forensic drawing of the first
1:08:49"person they ever fell in love with."
1:08:53So I said, "Okay,"
1:08:56and they said, "We'll give you $50 an hour."
1:08:58I said, "Absolutely."
1:09:00So I sat for all summer.
1:09:03I did about 20 hours a week.
1:09:06It was high-pressure because not only did I
1:09:09have to listen to the witnesses describe
1:09:11the first person they fell in love with,
1:09:12but there was always 20 people looking at me
1:09:17and parsing everything.
1:09:18They were listening to my conversations.
1:09:20They were watching me draw live.
1:09:22It was kinda harrowing.
1:09:24I got used to it.
1:09:28I slowly began to realize that women dig forensic artist.
1:09:32(chuckles) (audience laughing)
1:09:38Here's some of sketches I did for this exhibition.
1:09:45So this one was was an interesting one
1:09:47because it was a 90-year-old man describing his wife from
1:09:531945.
1:09:55So it was a 70-year-old memory.
1:10:01I was drawing it and I looked up and there were 20 people
1:10:04and they were all sobbing, crying,
1:10:07listening to the story.
1:10:10She had just passed away
1:10:13and he says, "Would you like me to describe her
1:10:15"from like last year or from when I met her?"
1:10:18I said, "Describe here from when you
1:10:20"met her in Coney Island in 1945."
1:10:23So he was describing what happened.
1:10:24"It was on the boardwalk and I walked up to her,"
1:10:27and people were crying listening to the story.
1:10:30So I wanted to do a good job here
1:10:32and the daughter said it was just like her,
1:10:35so I was happy with that.
1:10:39So again, I sit side-by-side.
1:10:43The witness helps me,
1:10:45saying, "Ah, the hairline was right about here,"
1:10:47and I'm changing it up.
1:10:54Kids were getting into my drawing supplies.
1:10:56(audience laughing)
1:10:57I mean I'm trying to concentrate here and they're like,
1:11:00"What's this?
1:11:03"What's this eraser?"
1:11:06Yeah, it was cool.
1:11:08The Times covered it,
1:11:11The Daily News covered it,
1:11:14and I was tired at the end of the day.
1:11:16(chuckles) (audience laughing)
1:11:18- [Man] At the end of the day, you was famous though.
1:11:20(woman laughing)
1:11:23- Still am, no.
1:11:24(audience laughing)
1:11:27To me the best part was when I couldn't come in
1:11:30or I didn't want to or I went on vacation,
1:11:33I allowed my student,
1:11:34my 21-year-old John Jay student to sub in for me,
1:11:38and I just wanna show you her drawings
1:11:42and that's a 21-year-old forensic drawing student of mine
1:11:48and compare that to the San Francisco.
1:11:50(audience laughing)
1:11:51Okay, I'm just saying.
1:11:53I'm gonna show you a
1:11:56three-minute video from this installation,
1:11:58and then we'll have about 10 minutes to take questions.
1:12:03So think of questions you wanna ask and we'll have
1:12:05a discussion about Picking Cotton and forensic drawing.
1:12:08So anything you wanna discuss, we have two microphones.
1:12:15So let me show you this video.
1:12:16Channel 11 came to the exhibition on the first day
1:12:21and it's a funny little three-minute segment
1:12:23they did for the 11 o'clock news.
1:12:28- Your first love is maybe fantasized
1:12:30by reuniting with him or her.
1:12:32Well a new exhibit on the Lower East Side
1:12:34is calling up those memories and putting them in a picture.
1:12:37Monica Morales explains.
1:12:39- [Monica] The New Museum on the Bowery
1:12:41has some great pieces of contemporary art.
1:12:44On the third floor getting a lot of attention is Cary Lane.
1:12:47An artist from Morningside High,
1:12:50his day job is helping catch criminals,
1:12:52sketching bad guys for the Yonkers Police Department.
1:12:55He's now getting a break from all the drama.
1:12:58- This is really,
1:12:59it's fun to do it in this sort of heartfelt way
1:13:01instead of in a criminal context.
1:13:04- Drawing the faces,
1:13:05not of the most wanted, but the most loved,
1:13:08actually, first loves.
1:13:10What's the story behind this one?
1:13:12- He was on vacation in England 15 years ago and he met her.
1:13:17It's that Speakers' Corner or something like that
1:13:20and I think it was just a weekend thing.
1:13:22- [Monica] The piece is called
1:13:23First Love and it's a two-hour process,
1:13:26but the end product is pretty accurate.
1:13:28- If they say it's an eight out of 10 in accuracy,
1:13:32that's pretty good in the forensic art world.
1:13:34- [Monica] Lane's working on Emily Greenquist's first love,
1:13:36a high school sweetie who broke her heart.
1:13:39- He didn't love me back, unfortunately,
1:13:42but he was very sweet about it.
1:13:44It sort of got my heart broken, but--
1:13:45- I don't like him.
1:13:46So is it him?
1:13:47That's your first love.
1:13:48He's cute.
1:13:49- Yeah, he is very cute.
1:13:52- French school boy crush.
1:13:55- Gabriel, second grade.
1:13:57He was cute as a button.
1:13:58He made out with my best friend though.
1:14:00He wouldn't dance with me
1:14:01(mumbles) and he was adorable.
1:14:03Think you can help me?
1:14:04- I think we can capture this heartbreak for you.
1:14:06- (chuckles) Great.
1:14:08- Okay, Monica.
1:14:09So what I want you to do is remember
1:14:11Gabriel when you saw him at that reunion
1:14:13and why don't you start by just telling me
1:14:16everything about his face that you remember.
1:14:17What'd he look like?
1:14:19- Oh, he's so handsome.
1:14:20He has like eyes that are like buh-duh.
1:14:22He asked me about the shape of Gabriel's face, then nose.
1:14:26I'm gonna pick my nose,
1:14:27then his chin and complexion.
1:14:30He has a dark complexion,
1:14:31kinda looks like my photographer, Roman.
1:14:33(dreamy instrumental music) (audience laughing)
1:14:35(Cary chuckling)
1:14:36- [Monica] Like Roman.
1:14:37- [Cary] Okay.
1:14:38- Which is scary (chuckles).
1:14:39- Well, Roman's a handsome man, so.
1:14:41- (chuckles) Roman, where have you been all my life?
1:14:43And if I didn't have words,
1:14:45I flipped through an old FBI catalogue to find a match.
1:14:48That looks like Gabriel's head.
1:14:50Let me tell you,
1:14:51the whole thing brought up all kind of emotions.
1:14:53This feels like a therapy session.
1:14:55- [Cary] It is a little bit and I think
1:14:56that's what the artist basically wants.
1:14:58He wants the people to reminisce, open up and--
1:15:02- [Monica] I don't want to.
1:15:04- Work with me.
1:15:05- That's enough.
1:15:06Just go crying.
1:15:07It's more than a face.
1:15:08It's memories and old feelings kinda washing back.
1:15:12Who was your first love, if I might ask.
1:15:14- I've been watching Channel 11 my whole life.
1:15:16I have to say that Kaity Tong is my first love.
1:15:19- Kaity!
1:15:22I'll let her know.
1:15:23My long lost love.
1:15:25Wow. - Here you go.
1:15:26- Oh, can I kiss it?
1:15:28(smacks) (Cary chuckles)
1:15:29If you wanna participate,
1:15:31email [email protected].
1:15:34On the Lower East Side, Monica Morales PIX11 News.
1:15:38- Slightly embarrassing, but it was fun,
1:15:40(audience laughing)
1:15:42and she actually did tell Kaity Tong that this guy,
1:15:44this artist at the New Museum was into her,
1:15:47but, I don't know.
1:15:49(audience laughing)
1:15:50I had a girlfriend at that time, just didn't work out, so.
1:15:55So let's talk.
1:15:57We have two microphones.
1:16:00Certainly,
1:16:02no question is silly.
1:16:04So let's open up this discussion
1:16:05about the process, the Ronald Cotton case.
1:16:09Now that you know a little bit
1:16:10about recognition versus recall
1:16:13and the difficulty and nuanced
1:16:16process of forensic drawing,
1:16:20does someone have a question?
1:16:25- [Man] What are methods--
1:16:26(woman speaking off microphone)
1:16:32For your favorite method,
1:16:33you said that you prefer freehand, just hand-drawing.
1:16:38Do you think that's easiest for the witness?
1:16:41- Do I think?
1:16:42- [Man] That way is easiest for the witness?
1:16:47- A hand-drawing,
1:16:50you need training for it, but once you're trained,
1:16:53I think it's in fact easier to execute than even a software
1:16:59because in software you're limited
1:17:01because the software only provides you
1:17:04with 300 pairs of eyes or 400 pairs of ears.
1:17:08It's a little bit like the game, Mr. Potato Head.
1:17:11What happens if the eyes don't exactly
1:17:13match what the witness is saying?
1:17:16So hand-drawing gives you that absolute
1:17:18freedom to draw, not only draw,
1:17:20but edit and adjust because the difference between,
1:17:25it's millimeters difference between the corner of a mouth
1:17:28or the shape of an eye and you need that control.
1:17:34I think that's why the John Jay course is so important
1:17:37and that's why they need basic drawing before they enter
1:17:39the course is because it's an advanced drawing course,
1:17:43but by the time they're done,
1:17:45look, I let my student draw at the New Museum.
1:17:48She kicked ass.
1:17:51So once you're trained, it needs training,
1:17:53and that's expensive, but it's more accurate,
1:17:56and in the hands of an effective forensic artist,
1:18:01the investigation is much easier.
1:18:04Good question, thank you.
1:18:07Here's a question.
1:18:13- [Woman] My question is why isn't
1:18:16the sketch considered to be evidence?
1:18:19- Remember that
1:18:24we're interested in apprehending a suspect.
1:18:28So when I say that a sketch is an investigative tool,
1:18:33somebody is on the loose
1:18:37and when the only means to catch that suspect
1:18:40is through an eyewitness' memory,
1:18:44a sketch is made.
1:18:46It's then up to the detectives to use that sketch
1:18:48and disseminate it in a way that they can maybe bring in
1:18:51a suspect so that they can then question them.
1:18:54You saw the frailty of the accuracy of some of the sketches.
1:18:59We wouldn't want it to be evidence, however,
1:19:02if we can bring in a suspect for questioning,
1:19:05and then real evidence takes over.
1:19:08One of the problems with the Ronald Cotton case
1:19:10is that the only evidence was her testimony
1:19:13and she picked him out of a lineup
1:19:16and she goes, "Yes, that's him.
1:19:18"I remember," and it took five minutes,
1:19:20and the sketch took 90 minutes, and that was it.
1:19:22There was no DNA.
1:19:24There was no blood.
1:19:25He went to jail because she picked him out of a lineup.
1:19:29That's a very dangerous thing
1:19:30as we learned from Picking Cotton.
1:19:33So yes we want sketches to help us in the investigation,
1:19:37but after the suspect is brought in
1:19:40for questioning or arrested,
1:19:42we really want due process and the
1:19:45criminal justice system to use real hard evidence.
1:19:49A sketch is just an investigative tool.
1:19:51It's not hard evidence,
1:19:53nor would we want it to be.
1:20:01Ray's gonna bring in the microphone.
1:20:03There we go, that's service.
1:20:04Hi.
1:20:05- [Woman] So say you interview a witness
1:20:07and they give you a face and everything
1:20:10and you end the process and then they go home
1:20:13and then they think of something
1:20:14and then they come back to you and you guys fix it.
1:20:17What happens if however they keep
1:20:20remembering different things about the face
1:20:22and then it sort of gets distorted?
1:20:24What do you do then?
1:20:27- If their memory keeps changing,
1:20:29I think at some point you have to make an assessment
1:20:31whether the witness' memory is so capricious
1:20:36that the sketch itself is in jeopardy from being accurate,
1:20:40and a lot of that is a gut,
1:20:41a lot of that's an instinctual thing.
1:20:43There are actually cases where somebody's
1:20:46boyfriend or girlfriend will describe
1:20:49their boyfriend to frame them.
1:20:52So remember when I said, "On a scale of one to 10,
1:20:56"how accurate is this sketch?"
1:20:58If a witness tells you it's a 10,
1:21:01you should be very suspicious because,
1:21:03as you see in forensic art,
1:21:04it's almost never fully accurate.
1:21:07You really can get an essence.
1:21:10So a lot of times eyewitnesses will come in and they'll lie
1:21:16because they wanna frame somebody
1:21:18and you have to be aware of this.
1:21:20A lot of times the witnesses,
1:21:22their memory is too shaky to hold much weight
1:21:25and so you have to make a decision.
1:21:27Should we go forward with this or should we hold back?
1:21:31So it's a very nuanced decision.
1:21:33If they kept changing their mind time and time again,
1:21:35I would think about not doing the sketch at all
1:21:40'cause their memory's too frail.
1:21:45(clears throat)
1:21:48- [Woman] What happens if you have multiple offenders
1:21:51and you have to draw pictures of multiple people,
1:21:53like gang rape or something?
1:21:56- Yeah, well, it looks like this could be a long night.
1:21:58I mean...
1:21:59(chuckles) (audience laughing)
1:22:01I showed you an example.
1:22:02When you have multiple witnesses
1:22:06describing the same individual,
1:22:07in fact that's what we did today
1:22:11when I humiliated everybody.
1:22:16So this is the opposite case where multiple
1:22:18people are describing one person.
1:22:20What you're saying is what happens if one
1:22:22witness is describing multiple people?
1:22:28Yeah, I haven't been involved in a case like that,
1:22:31but your example of let's say, god forbid, a gang rape,
1:22:34it depends how strong their memory was
1:22:37and I would have to feel them out
1:22:38and it's like, how sure they were.
1:22:40Maybe they would
1:22:42remember one of the perpetrators better than the other.
1:22:46I had a case for Yonkers Police Department
1:22:48where a man came to their door.
1:22:52He pretended to be Con Ed to read the meter
1:22:55and then he robbed their basement.
1:22:59It was an older couple
1:23:01and the husband and wife both saw him,
1:23:06but I just used the wife's description.
1:23:09After interviewing the couple,
1:23:11the husband was, he just kept going,
1:23:14he was so angry that he was robbed that he goes,
1:23:17"Oh, that jerk."
1:23:19He was just like, "I hated him."
1:23:21He was so upset that he got robbed.
1:23:23I said, "Well, tell me about his face.
1:23:25"I'm so sorry, sir, that you got robbed.
1:23:27"Tell me about his face."
1:23:28He goes, "He was a punk.
1:23:31(audience laughing) (chuckles)
1:23:32"I tell you he was a punk."
1:23:33Meanwhile, the wife was like, "Oh."
1:23:35She goes, "He had beautiful eyes."
1:23:38(audience laughing) (chuckles)
1:23:40Then she goes, "Oh, if I was younger, I would've dated him."
1:23:47So after about 15 minutes of the husband being so angry
1:23:50that he was robbed and so spiteful at this punk who did it
1:23:55and then listening to sort of like this
1:23:57beautiful description from the wife,
1:24:00I excused the husband.
1:24:01I said, "Sir, we have soda and candy outside.
1:24:06"We'll be out in half an hour."
1:24:08So I just (soft whistling), bye bye.
1:24:11He wasn't giving me any good information,
1:24:13but the wife did and you go with what's best, and that's it.
1:24:16You gotta be very diplomatic about it, but...
1:24:23They caught him without the sketch.
1:24:27They ended up doing it to another house
1:24:29and they caught him the next week.
1:24:31They tried it again, so...
1:24:34I'm sorry?
1:24:35- [Woman] Do you focus more when you meet people
1:24:37like on the way that they look because of your job?
1:24:39- Oh.
1:24:41Am I an observant person?
1:24:43- [Woman] Yes.
1:24:45- I'm looking at your nose right now.
1:24:47(audience laughing)
1:24:52Okay, I got it.
1:24:53(audience laughing)
1:24:54So don't steal anything from anybody 'cause I got you.
1:24:58I'm an observant person.
1:25:00I think my visual intelligence is higher
1:25:02than some of my other intelligences,
1:25:06but you have to be a good listener to see and focus.
1:25:09What happens with my students in John Jay
1:25:11is once they get training in the cognitive interview
1:25:14and they get used to studying people,
1:25:17they go on the subway and then they're like,
1:25:20(audience laughing)
1:25:21they start checking people out
1:25:22'cause they got a mole and they're like.
1:25:25I've had my students say like a guy said,
1:25:27"What are you staring at?"
1:25:28because they're looking at the person
1:25:30as if they were gonna sketch them.
1:25:35How about in relation to the Ronald Cotton case,
1:25:37anything from the book compared to what you know now?
1:25:43Do you think if you were able to describe me now,
1:25:45I'm not gonna have you do it, but if I left the room now,
1:25:49how would your ability to remember me, would it be improved?
1:25:54I think so too.
1:25:55I think so too.
1:25:57It just takes some training,
1:26:00but your question about being observant.
1:26:03As you go forward with college,
1:26:05your ability to be observant will improve
1:26:07and your ability to listen well will improve
1:26:09and your ability to annotate will improve,
1:26:12and most importantly,
1:26:13your ability to put the pieces of information together,
1:26:16whether it's words, images or both,
1:26:18will all continue to improve.
1:26:21It just takes practice.
1:26:22Forensic drawing happens to be a very difficult and nuanced
1:26:27process where we organize information,
1:26:30but it's a very interesting and important one,
1:26:32and I thank you for coming today.
1:26:35- [Susan] Please join me in thanking Doctor Cary Lane
1:26:38for coming today. (audience clapping)
1:26:39This was fabulous and incredibly
1:26:41interesting. - Thank you.

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