Floyd Landis: Lance Armstrong’s drug test cover up — Transcript

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1. 0:00[Music]
2. 0:03What role did Lance's training advisor,
3. 0:06Dr. Ferrari, play in the use of illegal
4. 0:08performance-enhancing drugs? He's the
5. 0:10best that there is in in cycling and at
6. 0:13giving advice. At giving advice, giving
7. 0:16advice on how to go about doing it, how
8. 0:18to avoid being detected. Um, he must
9. 0:21have had sources within within the
10. 0:22anti-doping labs and and other sources
11. 0:25that would tell him how the test worked
12. 0:27because they often try to keep it
13. 0:28secret.
14. 0:29Um, but the things that we did were were
15. 0:31fairly
16. 0:33wellnown anyway. We didn't do anything
17. 0:35extremely exotic that I know of. If
18. 0:37Lance did other things that we weren't
19. 0:38doing, then I didn't certainly didn't
20. 0:40know about it. But blood transfusions,
21. 0:42for example, and and things like that,
22. 0:44they're really not that comp complex,
23. 0:45but he was the guy you'd go to to ask
24. 0:47him how to do it. He wouldn't physically
25. 0:48show up at the tour by that time. There
26. 0:50probably was a time in his career in his
27. 0:52life when he did, but by this time he
28. 0:54had been investigated once in Italy and
29. 0:56he didn't want to be seen around the
30. 0:58team and things like that. So I know
31. 1:00that the doctors and and the writers had
32. 1:02contacted with him and gotten advice
33. 1:03from him, but he didn't physically show
34. 1:05up there and do this stuff. This was the
35. 1:07doctors the team had hired. What about
36. 1:09the role uh Johan Bernal played? He
37. 1:12would orchestrate all between the
38. 1:13doctors and the and the writers and
39. 1:15things like that. He liked to boast a
40. 1:16lot of times about how he was actually
41. 1:18the team doctor. But really? Yeah. Why?
42. 1:21Well, because he did. I mean, he was
43. 1:22really knowledgeable about it and and
44. 1:25like I say, there's it's not highly
45. 1:28scientific stuff. I mean, you just have
46. 1:29to physically know the amounts you can
47. 1:31use and what you can use and things like
48. 1:32that. And he liked to be the guy that
49. 1:34knew what was going on and like to
50. 1:35orchestrate it all. And he was good at
51. 1:36it. I mean, he was he's a smart guy. He
52. 1:38was a good director. What about coach
53. 1:40Chris Carmichael?
54. 1:42Well, he was a complete smokec screen.
55. 1:44He's not a coach at all. Lance at some
56. 1:46point decided to create a um a business
57. 1:50and Lance was, if I understand it
58. 1:52correctly, at least he or some of his
59. 1:54friends had equity um stakes in his
60. 1:57Carmichael training systems, which is
61. 1:58his coaching business. And so it served
62. 2:01a couple purposes. In fact, um it was
63. 2:03well known that Dr. Ferrari had had at
64. 2:06least questions and investigations um
65. 2:08into his um giving advice for doping and
66. 2:13cycling in the past. And so Lance didn't
67. 2:14want to wanted to be seen as he was as
68. 2:18Ferrari was his coach. So um they
69. 2:21created a business to make some money
70. 2:22with Carmichael Training Systems. And at
71. 2:24the same time, it just deflected the
72. 2:26information away from from Ferrari being
73. 2:28Lance's coach. But I can tell you that
74. 2:30um it was it didn't take me long to
75. 2:33figure out that that Carmichael had
76. 2:34nothing to do with coaching Lance. Um
77. 2:37nothing whatsoever. No, because the
78. 2:38first few months that I spent um
79. 2:40training with Lance and Samaritz, you
80. 2:43could check on on Chris Carmichael's
81. 2:45website to see what Lance had done that
82. 2:47day. And I physically spent the time
83. 2:48with him. I knew what he did. I did what
84. 2:50he did and it was just fabricated.
85. 2:52Wasn't even close. But he wasn't there.
86. 2:55I mean, we never saw Chris Carmichael
87. 2:56except maybe at the tour he would come
88. 2:57with some of his clients. I would I
89. 3:00would venture guess that Carmichael
90. 3:01talked to Lance once a month and not
91. 3:03about training. He's not the coach. What
92. 3:05about Lance's agent, Bill Stapleton? You
93. 3:09know, I don't I I cross paths with him
94. 3:10quite a bit um here and there. Never had
95. 3:12any really long conversations with him.
96. 3:14Um, I talked to him about um the end of
97. 3:182002
98. 3:20uh when I was negotiating a contract
99. 3:22contract for 2003 and four in his office
100. 3:24about it and he let me know um perfectly
101. 3:27clearly that he understood what was
102. 3:29going on in cycling with the doping and
103. 3:30he understood how much I had done and
104. 3:32how much there was to go if I wanted to
105. 3:34do it. And it was his way of saying he
106. 3:37knew how much potential I had at that
107. 3:38point. But I to me he seemed more of a
108. 3:42sin sinister character. I never really
109. 3:44liked him and I didn't really have that
110. 3:46much reason to be around him too much.
111. 3:47So I I didn't really spend a lot of time
112. 3:50to getting to know him. After you were
113. 3:52already on the postal service team, you
114. 3:54made some negative comments to a
115. 3:56reporter about UCI dealing with the fact
116. 3:59that you still hadn't been paid from a
117. 4:02team you raced on prior to the postal
118. 4:04service team, the Mercury team. What did
119. 4:07Lance say to you after that? The um the
120. 4:10UCI was unhappy with a comment that I
121. 4:12had made about it, which I still stand
122. 4:14by the comment. I said that they hadn't
123. 4:16followed the rules. They have a set of
124. 4:17protocol that they follow if somebody's
125. 4:18not paid. They have a they have an sort
126. 4:21of an insurance policy. They call it a
127. 4:23bank guarantee that pays at least three
128. 4:24months of your salary. If if a sponsor
129. 4:26discontinues a team or if a team goes
130. 4:28bankrupt or something, at least you have
131. 4:29three months, right? Well, I couldn't
132. 4:31get them to follow their own rules and
133. 4:33pay the three months. So, I made this
134. 4:34comment when someone had asked about it
135. 4:36and rather than contact me about it, it
136. 4:38was clear that the the UCI president
137. 4:40called Lance and called Johan and asked
138. 4:42them to tell me to correct this
139. 4:44situation. Why would they call Lance and
140. 4:46Johan about it? At the time, I it wasn't
141. 4:49clear to me how much power those guys
142. 4:50had with the UCI and what had
143. 4:52transpired. I mean, I was still learning
144. 4:53things at that at that point, but what I
145. 4:56know now, it makes perfect sense. The
146. 4:58easiest thing to do was to call them
147. 5:00because they're all in it together. I
148. 5:01mean, between Johan and Lance and and
149. 5:04the UCI at that time, that that's who
150. 5:05ran cycling, and so why not just ask
151. 5:08them to do it? They're my employer. I
152. 5:10mean, it makes sense now. At the time,
153. 5:11it seemed completely out of out of the
154. 5:12ordinary. And how surprising would that
155. 5:15be that UCI,
156. 5:18Lance, and Johan would be working
157. 5:20together? Well, it runs completely
158. 5:23contrary to what they claim to be doing,
159. 5:26which is what? Well, the UCI claims to
160. 5:28be the federation that runs cycling from
161. 5:30a neutral standpoint and and is there to
162. 5:31promote races, a few races, and to to
163. 5:35enforce the rules. I mean, they're the
164. 5:37the governing body. So, to have a vested
165. 5:40interest with a with a particular team,
166. 5:42and that particular team have the best
167. 5:43rider in the world, and I mean, all of
168. 5:45it is is a conflict of interest, but So,
169. 5:48what did Lance say to you? He told me
170. 5:50that he didn't he understood that that I
171. 5:52might be telling the truth. He didn't
172. 5:54really care about the details, I don't
173. 5:55think. But he said, "Look, we're going
174. 5:57to need these guys at some point in the
175. 5:58future. So, you got to you're going to
176. 6:01have to apologize to Verbugan." Mr.
177. 6:03Verugan was the the president at the
178. 6:05time and retract your statement because
179. 6:08if you don't, when we need these guys,
180. 6:09they're not going to be there. Uh Don
181. 6:11Catelan, who ran UCLA's Olympic
182. 6:14anti-doping lab for 25 years, what was
183. 6:17his role in everything? Well, it's
184. 6:19become evident now that that he's been
185. 6:21involved in some cover-ups of
186. 6:22testosterone positives for Lance
187. 6:24Armstrong. But, um, the only
188. 6:26relationship that I know for sure
189. 6:27between them, uh, Armstrong and and Don
190. 6:30Catelyn is that Don Catelyn was
191. 6:33allegedly going to conduct this this,
192. 6:35um, anti-doping program for Armstrong in
193. 6:382009, I believe, when he made his
194. 6:39comeback. They announced it with, you
195. 6:41know, at some sort of press conference
196. 6:43and it was going to be the greatest
197. 6:44anti-doping program ever, but within two
198. 6:46or three months, they just I I mean, one
199. 6:49of the dumbest quotes I ever heard, Don
200. 6:50Catelyn said that they decided that
201. 6:52something sometimes when you try
202. 6:53something so so big and difficult,
203. 6:55sometimes it's best to just quit. And
204. 6:56that's what he said. The negotiations
205. 6:59with Postal after Phoneac offered you
206. 7:04$500,000
207. 7:06a year contract or a $500,000 contract.
208. 7:10How did they go? Johan came to me at one
209. 7:12point during the during the tour to
210. 7:14France and told me they would like to
211. 7:16keep me on the team. This was 2004 and
212. 7:20my contract expired at the end of that
213. 7:21year and I didn't have any offers yet at
214. 7:23that point. And so, um, I said, "Well,
215. 7:27I'm gonna go find some other offers."
216. 7:29And I really, in the back of my mind, I
217. 7:30wanted to leave, but I didn't want to
218. 7:31have a debate during the race. I just
219. 7:32wanted to deal with it. So, I said, "I'm
220. 7:34going to find some other offers." And he
221. 7:36said, "Well, we don't we don't this
222. 7:37team's the best team in the world. We
223. 7:39don't match other teams offers. We pay
224. 7:41people what they're worth." Which didn't
225. 7:42make any sense to me because I was
226. 7:44always told what you're worth is what
227. 7:45people will pay. So, he obviously had a
228. 7:47different point of view. He said, "Okay,
229. 7:49well, go find some offers and let me
230. 7:50know what they are." And so, when I
231. 7:52finally got some offers, um, I got I had
232. 7:54a couple from some other teams and they
233. 7:56were more or less the same amount of
234. 7:57money. Um, I went back to him and I
235. 7:59said, "Because in the contract, they had
236. 8:01the right to match an offer, right?" So,
237. 8:04I took it to him and he said, "Well, we
238. 8:05didn't want to match it." And I said,
239. 8:06"Okay, good. Then I'll leave." And I got
240. 8:08a bunch of calls. I got a call from
241. 8:10Lance at some point in the next few
242. 8:11days. And I got a call from Bart Eggs
243. 8:12trying to tell me to stay. And I said,
244. 8:13"No, I'm not going to stay." And so
245. 8:17finally, Bill Stapleton, I believe
246. 8:19himself, called me and said that they
247. 8:21decided they wanted to match the offer.
248. 8:22And by this time, my mind was made up. I
249. 8:24mean, I did not want to stay. So I told
250. 8:26him, "Well, you you already waved the
251. 8:28right to to match the offer. He told me
252. 8:30he didn't want to, so I'm leaving." And
253. 8:33then he got mad and he said, "Well, you
254. 8:36know, you can't do that. That's what the
255. 8:38contract says. You can't do it." And I
256. 8:39didn't really want to pay a lawyer, so I
257. 8:41said, "All right. Well, if you want to
258. 8:43pay me half a million dollars to sit
259. 8:44around and get fat for two years, that's
260. 8:46fine, but I'm not going to train. I'll
261. 8:48be happy to take the money. And then he
262. 8:50got mad and he said, "You can't do
263. 8:51that." And I said, "Well, I thought I
264. 8:53told you I don't want to stay." And he
265. 8:54said, "Well," he said, "Well, what do
266. 8:56you want?" And I think I told him I I
267. 8:58think I doubled it. I said, "I want a
268. 9:00million dollars." And then he got even
269. 9:01more mad. He said, "This is this is
270. 9:02bull." And then he had Lance call me and
271. 9:04tell me how disloyal I was and
272. 9:06everything they had done for me and that
273. 9:08I would be living on the streets and
274. 9:09some long bull story. And eventually I I
275. 9:12just never talked to him again. But
276. 9:14actually I did talk to him again
277. 9:16following that because uh well on the
278. 9:18same subject the team we weren't sure
279. 9:20about whether phone act was going to
280. 9:21continue because of an incident with
281. 9:23Tyler Hamilton that fall and so they
282. 9:25called me again and and asked if I
283. 9:26wanted to come back and told him no
284. 9:28again and then they were even more mad
285. 9:31than the first place. But anyway, I
286. 9:34didn't talk to him after that for
287. 9:35probably a year. Probably a year. I mean
288. 9:38I raced beside Lance. Didn't say a word.
289. 9:40Not it. To what extent did that
290. 9:43incident, that situation make you both
291. 9:45enemies of each other? I guess you say
292. 9:48we're enemies of each other. He went out
293. 9:49of his way and he had his team go out of
294. 9:51their way to to damage my results when
295. 9:54he wasn't there to win. Like I remember
296. 9:55a race at the Delphi, the race before
297. 9:57the tour in 2005. What would they do?
298. 10:00They would just make sure that I
299. 10:01couldn't do anything. They would have
300. 10:02their entire team work against my team
301. 10:04to prevent me from having any
302. 10:05opportunities. And you can do that in
303. 10:06cycling. It's easy to prevent somebody
304. 10:07from winning. Um,
305. 10:10but I can't say I was an enemy of him. I
306. 10:12really didn't care if if he didn't like
307. 10:13me. I didn't want to be his friend. I
308. 10:15didn't feel like they owed me anything,
309. 10:17but he certainly felt like I owed him
310. 10:19something. So, the way he behaved to me
311. 10:21just seemed like a waste of time. I
312. 10:23mean, it was upsetting. It wasn't like I
313. 10:25was happy about it, but I didn't care
314. 10:27for the guy. I didn't wasn't like I felt
315. 10:30any sort of loss not being his friend.
316. 10:32[Music]
317. 10:39[Music]
318. 10:41Hey, be
319. 10:43[Music]