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Feminist's take on Patriarchy, Rape Culture & Men's Rights Activists | Outtakes from "The Red Pill" — Transcript

by Cassie Jaye · 2,990 words · 427 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:05[Music]
0:14did we live in a picture if if by
0:18patriarchy we mean rule of the fathers
0:21no do we live in a society that is based
0:26fundamentally on gender inequality yes
0:30do we still have persistent gender
0:33equality and interpersonal relationships
0:35in institutional arrangements yes if you
0:39want to call that patriarchy you can
0:41call it patriarchy I call it gender
0:42inequality and do we live in a rape
0:49culture again by rape culture here's how
0:54here's the question do you know any
0:57women who don't think about this when
0:58they go out at night do you know any
1:02women who don't say well jeez I'm parked
1:05in a kind of remote parking lot it's a
1:06little late or you know gee it's getting
1:08kind of late to that work yes I stay in
1:10the library any longer you know maybe I
1:12should go back to my room maybe I should
1:14go back home
1:15you know I don't know about that you
1:17know going out it by myself late at
1:18night down in this neighborhood you know
1:20any women who don't think about that
1:22okay so we live in a way of culture we
1:24live in a culture in which rape is on
1:26people's minds on women's minds if 51%
1:29of the population is concerned about
1:32something and the 49 percent who loves
1:36them and care about them who are married
1:39to them who love them who are their
1:41fathers who are their sons who care
1:44about them if we all you know what can't
1:47you know don't think about it think
1:49about this a lot then yes we live in a
1:52rape culture is it does this mean that
1:54if
1:55is a rapist absolutely not does this
1:58mean in fact you know what are we
2:00talking about we're talking about like
2:01four or five percent of men maybe at
2:03most most men don't rape the
2:05overwhelming majority don't rape so if
2:07you're saying is rape
2:09normative but is it like a rite of
2:10passage of course not am i thing that
2:14you know that all heterosexual sex is
2:17really great no of course not but am i
2:20saying that everyone has to deal with
2:21this everyone has to contend with this
2:23everyone ought to be thick ought to
2:25think about this that that that we
2:27ourselves or the women that we love have
2:31to think about these sorts of things to
2:33me that's morally unconscionable it's
2:36unconscionable that people I care about
2:37have to think about the violation of
2:40their bodies like that so to me that's
2:42you know if you want you can call it
2:44what you like but it's it's a culture in
2:46which every woman I know and that
2:49includes you know my mother and my wife
2:52and my and my students and my and and
2:56all the women who are my friends and you
2:59know all of them have to think about
3:01this then it's it then it's a cultural
3:04problem and not a problem of bad
3:07individuals and if you want to make it a
3:10problem a bad individuals how is it
3:11possible that four or five percent of
3:13men have ruined it for everyone else
3:15however we let that happen all right
3:22[Music]
3:23what do you know about the men's rights
3:25movement I've known about the men's
3:28rights movement for more than thirty
3:30years I think that at their origins they
3:35came out of the same they came from the
3:38same kind of fertile soil of challenging
3:41and discomfort with traditional gender
3:43arrangements that the pro feminism
3:46that came from that we all were at one
3:48point allies doesn't surprise me for
3:51example that the Creek you know that
3:54someone like Warren Farrell was the
3:56president on the board of New York now
3:59for a couple of times doesn't surprise
4:01me you know we come from the same origin
4:03we moved in completely different
4:05directions what do you think feminism
4:08has so has had so much success while the
4:11men's movement has a pretty bad rap well
4:15I'm you know this will sound a bit harsh
4:18but a movement of the sub ordinate
4:22always makes a kind of moral claim on
4:25this the the culture because we do
4:30believe in the United States we believe
4:31in these values like equality and
4:35fairness and justice so when we hear
4:38that in justices are done to people
4:42simply because of their race or their
4:44gender or their sexuality we were
4:47morally offended I mean even even the
4:50most right-wing people you know who
4:51think it's a good thing would be morally
4:53offended if they felt that this was
4:55actually really you know happening and
4:57not justified for some reason so I so
5:01but if a movement of the superordinate
5:04is a little bit difficult it's a little
5:07bit different
5:07we don't have movements called you know
5:09straight liberation
5:11you know insta meant the question I
5:13would pose rhetorically is is the men's
5:15rights movement really the gender
5:18version of the white nationalist
5:20movement of because there are plenty of
5:24white people who say that they are the
5:26victims of reverse discrimination right
5:29and so and their evidence is there's a
5:32black man in the White House so is it
5:35costly and so we're totally I would say
5:37is this
5:38really analogous so it's of course it's
5:40not going to have very much attraction
5:41you can't really organize the people who
5:43are a superordinate and because it's
5:47hard for them to get because the
5:49political organizing comes from a
5:51feeling of victimization which is why
5:53the men's rights movement makes that
5:55claim that men are the victims of
5:57discrimination but it doesn't have much
5:59traction because you know you look
6:02around and it's hard to see it well see
6:19this is the point that I don't agree
6:21with I think that the the feminist
6:24movement is based on the idea that women
6:26have been have been victims but not that
6:29many of the perpetrators that feminism
6:32is about you know is about systemic
6:35inequality it's not about blaming men
6:37you know men you know - once you know
6:42about this once you see the
6:44discrimination once your child comes to
6:47you and says this happened to her once
6:49you know once your mother tells you that
6:51she was sexually an arrest when we know
6:54when she was in college or and in high
6:56school once your partner says well I was
6:59actually assaulted at a party you know
7:01it when I was in college well then you
7:04know then you have then you kind of face
7:06to the existential choice now you can't
7:07ignore it anymore you either say well
7:10you know I well I'm I'm I'm a victim too
7:13or you say that's wrong right I don't
7:17want that to happen to somebody else and
7:19so it seems to me that you know the idea
7:22that that we we have this Mars Venus
7:24women victims men
7:28perpetrators I don't know any feminist
7:31women who think that I think that's a
7:34myth I mean most of the feminist women I
7:38know would love men so much that they
7:41say we need you to be around the kids
7:44more we need you to be home more we need
7:47you to be our allies and our partners
7:49you know we don't we want you to you
7:51know we want to have good conversations
7:54with you want to be as smart as you we
7:55want to be as interesting as you because
7:57we want to have really good
7:58conversations with you
7:59we're absolutely convinced that you
8:01don't want to be around an airhead
8:03Victoria's Secret model we're convinced
8:05of this we believe in you so I think
8:08prove them right it's gonna get a little
8:15off track your first day but I want I
8:18can cater advice on this so you know I'm
8:22a FEMINIST for at least a decade at my
8:26dolet so but when I started researching
8:32the men's rights movement sort of
8:34talking to Emory's and they say that
8:37feminists attack men essentially and
8:41just in the language and make men to be
8:43out to be the perpetrators and then I I
8:45didn't buy that I didn't feel that way I
8:47wasn't a feminist to attack men I love
8:49them
8:51but when I started reading the Emery's
8:54books the myth the male power all the
8:59National Coalition for men writings I
9:02couldn't help but get angry reading it
9:05because it sounded like they were
9:07attacking women and it sounded like they
9:10were placing all the blame on women and
9:12that men were victims who when women
9:14were perpetrators and when they're
9:15talking about domestic violence
9:17situations where the husbands are being
9:20abused and their slave to work while
9:22their moment get to stay home and have
9:25freedom I couldn't help them feel
9:28attacked and and be on the defensive and
9:31so now I'm trying I'm trying to look at
9:34these gender politics I try to look at
9:37it through an MRIs lens and when I read
9:41your book
9:42angry white men I was thinking okay if
9:46this is angry white women feminists
9:49would be outraged by that book talking
9:52about all the women who are snapping you
9:55know snapped or whatever but you know
9:58killing their husbands or their kids or
10:00molesting kids or whatever I just think
10:03society would have a problem with that
10:04okay what are you thoughts on that I
10:08have a lot of thoughts of that about
10:10that you know I think that there is
10:16there are you know there are a lot of
10:18women who have written books semanas
10:21books out there that have expressed
10:23their outrage at inequality the men's
10:27rights books strike me as not outraged
10:30about inequality but actually angry at
10:33women in personally or something and and
10:37it seems to me illogical
10:40two things that don't that strengthening
10:41a somewhat contradictory here's the
10:44first you'll hear on some men's rights
10:46websites that the men are working their
10:48butts off there to support a family to
10:52be providers and detectives all good
10:54things not bad things and what and their
10:57wives are sitting home eating bonbons
10:59being gold diggers etc they won't hang
11:02out with working-class guys they're
11:05always looking for rich guys whatever
11:07and you'll hear that and that much likes
11:09me is a very 50s kind of argument that
11:13women are gold diggers they're only
11:14after you for your money they want you
11:16know the commitment they want to be
11:17taken care of all of this sort of stuff
11:19and then you get the other thing which
11:20you just also said that the men's rights
11:22movement says which is women are now
11:24equal they can be anything they want
11:26they can don't wear and that's great
11:28they'll say right which is it are they
11:32you know all in over-ambitious you know
11:35heart surgeons who are taking away men's
11:36jobs or are they gold diggers right you
11:39know you you you can't cut right out of
11:42both ways there's another thing that
11:45strikes me it's contradictory in the
11:47heart of the Men's Rights argument let's
11:48grant every single empirical case as
11:52being true yes it is true let's just say
11:56I mean it is not true but let's just
11:58assume that that there is gender
12:01symmetry engine in domestic violence
12:03that women hit men as men as much as men
12:06hit women are you then saying that there
12:11if I were to say that I would say and
12:13therefore we need boatloads more funding
12:17for domestic violence to develop
12:20shelters and adequate interventions
12:22because this is hidden epidemic of men
12:24who are being beaten up by weather or I
12:28could say as the men's rights remember
12:30do therefore we shouldn't have these
12:31shelters and we shouldn't fund them
12:33because the women are all lying well
12:35it's
12:36to me that if you really believe in
12:38gender symmetry it's not that you want
12:39to you're not questioning the number of
12:42women you're just saying the number of
12:43men inside you would want to join with
12:45women who are anti violence to say we
12:49have a real problem here you know it's
12:52not even a gender problem it's a problem
12:54of women hitting men and men hitting
12:55women we've got to get boatloads more
12:57funding let's work together that seems
13:00the logical response to this but instead
13:02they're saying it's like a zero-sum game
13:04if if we fund the women then we're gonna
13:07ignore the man well we're not we're not
13:10gonna ignore the women because we all
13:12agreed that the levels are as high as we
13:15say it's about you know are there men
13:18who get beat up by women of course there
13:20are are there are there children who get
13:23beat up by their moms of course there
13:24are and we should be concerned about
13:26that and we should look around the the
13:29political landscape and say who's
13:31addressing these issues of child abuse
13:34and child sexual abuse oh I see those
13:36groups let's work with them it just
13:40seems logical there's things that you're
13:52not that that there's a word we haven't
13:55used yet and there's a word that Warren
13:58uses occasionally that I think is really
14:00it really important fact it's that it's
14:04sort our now one would say that men's
14:09power is a myth were male powers of myth
14:11because men don't feel powerful he says
14:15it's not power to work really hard in a
14:19job you hate for a boss who's an [ __ ]
14:21who treats you like three too terribly
14:23to come home to kids who don't like you
14:25and don't understand you and you know
14:27and have their headphones out all the
14:28time and a wife who basically is
14:30spending all your money that's not power
14:31he's right okay but here's the here's
14:35the the thing that I think is really
14:37really important about to understand
14:39about
14:39men's rights groups one thing about them
14:42and then about their reversals and one
14:44thing in more in general general terms
14:46so there are some things that there are
14:50some wrinkles in our system in which men
14:52do get short shrift right we and we'll
14:55probably talk you'll probably want to
14:57talk about them there's problems for
14:58example with you know with with custody
15:00child custody and divorce courts and you
15:03know many of the father rights groups
15:05really do have some some really good I
15:07think important things to say that we
15:09need to pay attention to there are also
15:11places that have been remedied like the
15:13all-male draft well women said well we
15:16don't like that either we want to be in
15:17the army and we we turn Reza oh no you
15:19can't do that
15:20but we're discriminated against right
15:22again a lot of reversals but so let me
15:26talk about a couple of them that I think
15:27are important when feminism as a system
15:32feminism is an ideology basically said
15:35two things it said women as a group are
15:39not in power right and this you could
15:42measure as a group you could measure
15:44this by looking at the boards of every
15:46Corporation University you know
15:48religious organization whatever and you
15:51would say you would agree that women
15:53were not in power the second thing that
15:55feminist said was individual women don't
15:57feel powerful right they don't feel like
16:00they are able to do all the things that
16:02they want to do in their lives because
16:04they're held back by these archaic ideas
16:06or by these institutional arrangements
16:08so they want more equality they want to
16:10feel more personally powerful so
16:12feminism had a nice symmetry women as a
16:15group weren't in power women
16:17individually didn't feel powerful so now
16:19you apply this to men men as a group are
16:22in power of course obvious look at every
16:24one of those boards and corporations and
16:27universities or whatever and you'll see
16:29men are in power and then you say men
16:33must therefore feel powerful and that's
16:36where you lose men because most men if
16:39you say and therefore most men feel
16:40powerful you look look if you like
16:43what are you talking about I have no
16:45power my wife bosses me around my boss
16:48bosses me around my kids boss me right
16:50I'm completely powerless so women
16:54feminists feminism offered women as
16:56symmetry
16:56a graded powerlessness and individual
17:00feeling of powerlessness the
17:01contradiction for men and this may
17:03explain why it's hard to get traction
17:05the contradiction for men is that all
17:08the power in the world didn't trickle
17:11down to individual men feeling powerful
17:14this is really important because most
17:17men don't speak from a position of
17:19feeling powerful they speak from a
17:21position of feeling powerless and that
17:24feeling of powerlessness is real and I
17:27think we have to pay attention to it but
17:29I don't think it's true in the sense
17:32that it's not an accurate analysis that
17:34therefore since you don't feel powerful
17:36men aren't powerful men as a group are
17:39it didn't trickle-down trickle-down
17:41economics didn't work either
17:42trickle-down gender power didn't work
17:45most men don't feel powerful
17:48so the men's rights groups seem to say
17:51you know how you don't feel powerful
17:53you're right the women have all the
17:55power let's go get it back that's where
17:57it feels to me like they lose most men
17:59because they they may not feel powerful
18:02but they don't blame women for it and
18:05they don't blame feminism for it and
18:06they don't blame gender equality for it
18:09they are right to blame the companies
18:12that downsize and outsource us the the
18:15culture that focuses on crass
18:16consumerism over internal meaning and
18:19there are many other groups that sort of
18:21minister to that and so the men's rights
18:23groups are kind of angry but they think
18:26they deliver their mail to the wrong
18:28address
18:31[Music]
18:34you
18:36[Music]

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