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Female Detective Shot Ex-Lover’s Wife | Interrogation of Stephanie Lazarus — Transcript

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0:00If there's one case that pulled millions
0:02into interrogation videos, it's this.
0:04February 24th, 1986,
0:07Sherri Rasmussen is found beaten and
0:09shot in the Van Nuys apartment she
0:11shared with her husband, John Ruuten.
0:14LAPD calls it a botched burglary and the
0:16trail goes cold, but Sherri's father
0:19points to an uncomfortable truth.
0:21John's ex, LAPD officer Stephanie
0:24Lazarus, had confrontations with Sherri
0:26and wouldn't let go.
0:28For two decades, nothing. Until 2008,
0:32when cold case detectives revisit the
0:34file.
0:35A covert DNA take matches a bite mark
0:37left on Sherri's body.
0:39The spotlight swings to a cop now
0:41wearing a detective's badge, and with
0:43that, we roll into the interrogation of
0:46Stephanie Lazarus.
0:48I didn't want to bring this up
0:51in your squadron.
0:53Oh, no, it's fine. I think I
0:55recorded it.
1:00We're bringing you're going to bring
1:01somebody in, right?
1:02>> Yeah, I wanted to explain the whole
1:03situation.
1:05I don't want to talk about this in the
1:06squadron because I I don't know who
1:07people are listening, and if we go to my
1:09side, everybody's always wondering what
1:11everybody else is doing.
1:12Okay.
1:13But uh we're talking about being busy
1:16and stuff. We've been assigned a case
1:17that we've been looking at.
1:19It's a new case, and reviewing the case,
1:21there's some notes at the scene as far
1:24as your name being mentioned. Oh, okay.
1:26Do you know John Ruuten?
1:28John Ruuten?
1:30John Ruuten? Ruuten.
1:32Ruuten.
1:33>> I went to school with him. You did?
1:34Yeah. How long did you know him? Gosh, I
1:37went to school in um
1:38let's see, went to UCLA 19 78 I started
1:42and
1:43um
1:44you know,
1:45met him at school at the dorms. Mhm. Um
1:50Were you guys friends, close friends?
1:52>> Yeah, we were very close friends.
1:54I mean, what's this all about? Well,
1:55it's regarding it's a case we're working
1:57on and it involves John, and in there
2:00some of the statements that we we
2:01reviewed, you know, there's notes and
2:03stuff that he that he knew you and
2:04stuff.
2:05>> Oh, yeah, I mean, we good friends um
2:08lived in the dorms for
2:09I lived in the dorms for 2 years. Um You
2:12guys lived in the same dorm?
2:14Yeah. Okay.
2:15>> Yeah, Dykstra. Okay. Were you guys just
2:16friends or anything else or Yeah, we
2:19were we were
2:20good friends. Yeah. Was there ever any
2:22relationship or anything that developed
2:24between you guys? Yeah, I mean, we dated
2:26uh Uh-huh. You know, um I mean, is what
2:30what what's this all about?
2:31>> Well, it's relating to uh his wife.
2:36Okay. Okay. Did you know her?
2:38Not really. I mean, I knew that he got
2:40married years ago. Uh-huh. Did you ever
2:42meet her?
2:44God, I don't know. Um
2:46Do you know who she was or anything?
2:48Well, I
2:49let me think. God, it's been a long time
2:52ago. Um
2:54Um
2:55I I may have met her.
2:57Um
2:58jeez.
3:00You know,
3:01Yeah.
3:02Uh well, let me see let me ask you. You
3:04said you you dated John. How long did
3:05you guys date?
3:08I mean,
3:09what are you guys Is this something
3:12I mean, you said I was going to
3:13interview somebody about art and how you
3:15guys are Here's
3:16I mean,
3:17>> Stephanie, here's the situation. It's
3:18basically
3:19we, you know, we knew that this when we
3:22saw this in the in in this chrono that
3:24maybe, you know, there was some
3:25relationship there. That's what the
3:26chrono seemed to indicate, and we didn't
3:28want to come up to you at your desk and
3:30ask those kinds of questions or do
3:32anything, you know how up there people
3:34can see what's going on if you go into
3:35an interview room where people are in
3:36there getting supplies. So, we we wanted
3:38to afford you some privacy, some
3:40confidentiality to talk about this cuz
3:42we thought it might be, you know,
3:43something, you know, you're married to
3:44someone else, obviously, and so forth,
3:46and that you may not want to, you know,
3:48talk about these things in that setting
3:49where someone you know, we don't want
3:50the rumor mill or gossip or any of that
3:51kind of stuff to start.
3:52>> I mean, So, we we we did this just as as
3:55a means to try and speak to you in just
3:56a confidential place where you, you
3:58know, where where your business isn't
4:00out there for other people in in your
4:01your division to hear about.
4:03>> you know, God, that's been a million
4:04years ago. I mean,
4:05you know, um
4:09What year is it now? 2009? I mean, I
4:11graduated in '82. '82, yeah. Um
4:16you know, we dated. Um I dated other
4:18guys. I'm sure he dated other girls. Um
4:23Well, let me ask you this.
4:24Roughly, how long would you would you
4:25say you guys dated? Oh, jeez. Um
4:30I couldn't even say. I mean,
4:32I started school there in '78. I started
4:36UCLA in 1978.
4:38I graduated in '82. Um I don't even
4:42remember what year he graduated, if it
4:43was a year or two before me. Okay.
4:46>> Um I think he was a little bit older
4:47than I was. I mean, you know, I can't
4:50remember if he was born Let's see, I was
4:51born in '60, 1960. I don't know if he
4:54was born in '58 or '59. I mean, I you
4:56know, um I mean, I knew his parents. I
4:58knew his sister. His brother went to
5:00Northridge. Um
5:03Um
5:04you know, his sister spent the night at
5:06my house before. Obviously, I spent the
5:08night at his house before. He probably
5:09spent the night at my house before.
5:11Um you know, I
5:14I you know, I don't What
5:16Correct me if I'm wrong cuz from what
5:18you're telling me is you you guys dated
5:19while you were in college together,
5:21right?
5:21>> Yeah, and probably after college. Um I'm
5:24I can't
5:26Jeez, um trying to think when I met my
5:28husband. I met my husband
5:30in when I met Scott. Um
5:34Let's see.
5:35I was teaching DARE cuz I met Scott when
5:37I was teaching DARE up in Oregon. But
5:40we had long stopped, you know,
5:42dating before that.
5:44>> haven't talked to him for a long time?
5:46Oh, I I think I haven't talked to him in
5:48a long time. I couldn't even tell you
5:49when the last time I talked to him. Um
5:52I met Scott, I'm thinking, in
5:55'92, maybe. Um April of '92. It was
5:59Scott being your husband. Yeah, I'm
6:01trying to think. I was teaching DARE.
6:04Let's see. What year is this? This We'll
6:06be married. Like I got married in 1996.
6:09I think I met Scott in '92. Prior to
6:11that, I couldn't tell you how long I had
6:13talked, you know, talked to John
6:15prior to that. But since you since you
6:18met your husband, Scott, you haven't
6:19talked to him.
6:21I mean, he may have called me uh once or
6:24twice before we got married. Um
6:27you know,
6:29Jeez, I I lived I moved to Simi
6:31in 1994 because I lost my house in the
6:34earthquake. Oh. Um uh quite honestly, I
6:38probably keep in contact with
6:40a few people from the dorms. We We all
6:42We all lived on the 10th floor. Um and
6:46um
6:48there's
6:52about three or four people I keep in
6:54contact with. There's probably like six
6:56or eight of us that were all really
6:57close.
6:58>> Mhm. And who are those people?
7:00Oh, jeez. Um
7:01Diana Basta.
7:04Um
7:05The people I still keep I I haven't been
7:07in contact with her in a long time. Um I
7:10mean, what
7:11you know, what's
7:12what's I mean, what's this all about? I
7:14mean, Well, let me ask you
7:16What ended the relationship between you
7:18and John?
7:20You know, I don't
7:21It was kind of a weird relationship. I
7:23mean, we we we dated. Um I can't say
7:26that he was my boyfriend. I don't know
7:28that he would consider me his
7:29girlfriend. Um we just we dated. We did
7:33things. I played sports in college. He
7:34played basketball.
7:36His brother played basketball. Um it it
7:39we just, you know, it just
7:43didn't work out. I mean, I don't know
7:44what to tell you. It was like I went out
7:46with other guys. Um saw other guys. I
7:49went on lots of vacations.
7:51Um you know, And and once you guys
7:54split, were you guys still friends or
7:56kind of
7:57you know, I mean,
8:00friendly, not friendly? No, I don't
8:02think it was not friendly. I mean, we
8:03were friendly.
8:05I know that
8:07we went to Hawaii. The detectives open
8:09soft rapport, a private setting, and a
8:12we didn't want gossip pretext to lower
8:15defenses and frame themselves as
8:16considerate, and also because Lazarus
8:18was already a familiar face in LAPD.
8:22Then they pivot to John, name, timeline,
8:24living arrangements, and whether the
8:26relationship overlapped marriage.
8:29It's a classic funnel. Broad
8:30biographical recall to specific
8:32commitments while loading her working
8:34memory with dates, dorm floors,
8:36siblings, and vacations to observe
8:38hesitation and inconsistencies.
8:41Lazarus minimizes, we dated, kind of
8:44weird. Hedges on duration and drifts to
8:47irrelevancies. The investigators gently
8:50re-anchor to the wife and what ended it,
8:52quietly boxing her into a clean,
8:54checkable narrative. Um another friend
8:57of mine who's actually dying right now,
8:59uh was uh went to Hawaii with us um at
9:03some point. Um Do you remember roughly
9:05when that was? Oh, jeez. Um
9:09Let me think.
9:10Mhm.
9:12I'd have to check my pictures um or I'd
9:14I'd say I'd ask Greg, but my friend Greg
9:16is like dying of liver cancer right now.
9:18Um
9:20Yeah, I mean, I you know,
9:22And you were saying that um It's 2009
9:25now.
9:25>> Had you ever met his wife?
9:28I may have. Do you know Do you remember
9:30her name or anything or
9:32Um
9:35Um
9:38or what she did for a living or where
9:40she worked or anything about her?
9:42Well, I think she I think I'm going to
9:43say that I think she was a nurse.
9:46Um
9:48Man, I can't even remember how he he
9:50said he met her.
9:51Uh yeah, I mean, I I Yeah, I mean, it's
9:53been so long ago. Well, let me ask Did
9:55you go to their wedding, you know?
9:57>> No, I didn't go to their wedding.
9:59Um no, I don't did not go to their
10:01wedding.
10:02Um
10:04I couldn't even tell you what year he
10:05got married. I mean, you know, it's it's
10:07been a million years ago. Do you
10:08remember if you ever talked to her cuz
10:09it seems like a lot of you who were
10:11at at the school at UCLA, you guys kind
10:13of were friends during and after school,
10:15so I don't know if you guys still
10:17associated afterwards when once he was
10:18married or anything.
10:20With him? Yeah.
10:22No, I don't think so. I mean
10:25I would say
10:27you know, the the people that were on
10:29the dorm floor, we'd have we'd have
10:31get-togethers.
10:32Um there's probably like four or five I
10:35don't think he ever came. Um
10:38Yeah, I don't think no. There was there
10:39was like it was mostly girls.
10:42You know,
10:43um a girl named Smita, Diane, um
10:47There's another There's two Dianes, but
10:49the one Diane I don't think she ever
10:50came. I kind of lost contact with her.
10:53We were good friends on the floor.
10:55Um yeah, I mean, I don't you know,
10:57again, I I mean, what
11:00you know, I I don't understand why
11:01you're talking about some guy I dated a
11:03million years ago.
11:04>> you know what happened to his wife?
11:06Yeah, I know she got killed.
11:08What did you What did you hear about
11:09that?
11:10I got I saw a poster at work. Um I'm
11:13sure I spoke to him about it. Um
11:17I think I spoke to another friend of his
11:19about it.
11:20Um And how did How did you first learn
11:22about that?
11:24Geez.
11:26Someone could have called me. I could
11:28have heard it at work. Um
11:31I think at one point there may have been
11:32a flyer or something. I know a good
11:34friend of his um
11:35>> Were you on the job back then when that
11:37happened?
11:38Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I'm sure I was
11:40on the job. That's why I would have
11:41heard about it with a flyer. Um
11:43He had a good friend Mike
11:45Mike
11:46Boldrick, Mike
11:48Um
11:50Um
11:53Anyways, a uh I he may have lived in the
11:55dorms. I don't remember if that's how I
11:57met him. Um I I may have talked to him.
11:59I mean
12:01you know, I don't remember how I heard.
12:02I mean, I don't even remember what year
12:03it was. And you think you you thought
12:05you said you thought his wife was a
12:06nurse. Do you have any idea where she
12:08was working at the time or
12:10did he ever mention that to you?
12:11Was it a hospital or a doctor's office
12:13or
12:13>> he must have mentioned it. Now now that
12:15you're bringing that up, I think she
12:17worked at a hospital somewhere. And
12:19yeah, I may have met her at a hospital.
12:21Um I may have talked to her once or
12:23twice. Um
12:26At a at a hospital?
12:27>> Um
12:28you know, But being that you were kind
12:30of
12:31you used to see uh John
12:34you know, was it Did everything okay
12:35between you guys? I mean, there wasn't
12:36any anything uncomfortable or anything
12:38between you and her?
12:40Um
12:42You know, I don't know. I mean, it's
12:44kind of it's been so many years. I mean
12:47the uncomfortable, I mean
12:51I can't even I can't even remember if we
12:53had a conversation. I mean we may have.
12:55I may have I may have seen her at his
12:57apart I you know,
13:00Geez, how many years ago was that? I
13:02don't even know what year she you know,
13:03got killed. Where was his apartment? On
13:06Roscoe. Okay. Yeah, Roscoe and um
13:10um
13:12East or West of De Soto uh either East
13:15or West of De Soto.
13:16Do you know where he moved after did did
13:18he move after he got married or do you
13:19know or
13:23Huh.
13:25I'm sure he did. Did you know where he
13:26was living or
13:29Somewhere in the Valley.
13:31Did you ever visit him and his wife? No.
13:34No? Never went out to you know,
13:36get-togethers, dinners
13:38I don't know.
13:39No. Like I said, his sister used to come
13:42over. His sister had had had come to my
13:44place. I knew his I knew his brother cuz
13:47his brother played basketball at
13:48Northridge. Um in fact, I was just
13:50coming across some pictures that I just
13:52scanned.
13:53Uh scanned from um
13:56I take a lot of photos. Um like 10,000.
14:00And I just did a service where I scanned
14:03everything.
14:04Um and I'd seen some pictures of his
14:05brother playing basketball.
14:06>> put them all on your computer so you
14:07could have them accessible and do things
14:09with them.
14:09>> Well, my partner is a big photo thing
14:11and he got a deal to scan. Huh. So I
14:15spent a ton of time just scanning
14:17photos. I mean, I paid a company to do
14:19it. Mhm. Um so I've got photos of I
14:22mean, his brother, his sister, you know,
14:2410,000 pictures? Oh, yeah. How long did
14:27that take them?
14:28Months. Okay.
14:30Now, what what are they Do they put that
14:31on a I'm just curious myself. Do they
14:33put it on a Do they get get that all on
14:35one DVD? They don't need like a hard
14:36drive or anything?
14:37>> There's like I think 11 DVDs. Yeah, I
14:40haven't even I don't even have time to
14:41go through
14:41>> It's It's a series of DVDs that they put
14:43them on? Oh, yeah.
14:44>> Oh, okay.
14:45>> Yeah, I mean, I got I'm not that
14:46familiar with computer stuff, so that's
14:47why I was asking.
14:48>> like 11 DVDs.
14:49>> Oh, okay. So, you know, um I haven't had
14:53chance to go through them. I I
14:55You could go through and pick which ones
14:56you don't want. I don't have time to do
14:57that. Right.
14:59>> so I so I like you said, did I you know,
15:01I I don't think we ever socialized. Um
15:05you know, uh he'd still call me. Um I
15:07can't say that I would I mean, if he's
15:09married, I don't know that I would have
15:10called him. I mean, maybe. Who knows? I
15:12I you know, I I don't know. It's been a
15:13million years ago. How long was John
15:16married before his wife died? I couldn't
15:18I have no idea.
15:20I have no idea.
15:21And uh
15:23after his wife died, did did you talk to
15:25him again or anything? Yeah, I mean, I
15:28did talk to him. Mhm. I talked to him,
15:31probably his parents, um probably some
15:34other friends. Um you know,
15:38I'm sure I talked to him. Yeah. Um
15:41But you don't you don't you're not sure
15:43where he moved to after he got married.
15:45No idea. I mean
15:46>> Never went over to to visit him or
15:48>> think I mean, I don't think so. I mean
15:51Um
15:52I don't know. I don't I mean, I don't
15:54think I did. Um
15:56I know he lived on Roscoe for a long,
15:58long time.
16:00Um
16:04I mean, he I may know. I mean, he may
16:06have told me where they lived. Somewhere
16:08in the Valley. I mean, he may have said
16:09he I lived over such and such, but I I
16:12couldn't tell you specifically where.
16:14But you don't remember specifically ever
16:15going over to visit him or visit them at
16:17where wherever he moved when he left
16:19Roscoe.
16:20I I I honestly I don't know. I don't
16:22think so, but Okay. I you know, I don't
16:25want to say no, I don't think so and
16:27then he says, "Oh, yes, she came over
16:28for something, dropped something off."
16:31You know,
16:32I'm I don't know. So if you did go over
16:34there, it'd just be like a a quick thing
16:36like like you were saying, drop
16:37something off or Maybe. Um
16:40But you don't remember as far as like
16:41going there to have dinner or like a
16:43social anything at the house, party?
16:47Well, if you guys know something, I I
16:49just I can't I don't know. I don't think
16:51so.
16:52I mean, but
16:54After uh
16:55John's wife died, and you said you may
16:58have been talking to him. Did uh your
16:59relationship
17:01start up again?
17:03I would say no. Um
17:06Again, can you give me a year? I mean,
17:08this is like 2009. She died in 1986.
17:13Yeah, I think it was '86.
17:14>> 1986. Okay. Um
17:17Like I said, I'm I'm faintly remembering
17:19that
17:21um I went to Hawaii
17:24with my friend Greg. Greg and I got
17:26certified scuba diving.
17:28Um and I'm thinking that John met us
17:31there, meaning Greg and I.
17:33Um
17:36That could have been
17:38I got certified
17:40toward the end of
17:42'88 or I mean, yeah, '88, '89.
17:46Um
17:48cuz I got recertified again and it had
17:51been like over
17:5310 10 years, so I got recertified. My
17:56husband and I got recertified. Um
18:00and I'm pretty sure that John met us
18:03there.
18:04Um again, I'd have to tell you what year
18:06it was. I'd have to look at my pictures.
18:09Um
18:10you know,
18:11um and other than that, I can't even
18:14say. He may have called me
18:16you know, at my home. Um I may have
18:18called him.
18:20Um I don't think
18:22he got together with our group. Um You
18:25don't think after his wife's death? Uh
18:27or even before I don't
18:30You know,
18:31we went to weddings together. You know,
18:34Did you
18:34>> pictures. I like I said, I couldn't tell
18:36you years. It's been a million years
18:39ago. After he after he got
18:42uh married or whatever, were you were
18:43you dating anybody?
18:45In particular or with anyone
18:47>> was what what year? 1986 you said?
18:49>> he got married yeah, in around '85, '86,
18:51something like that.
18:53Were you seeing anyone seriously or
18:55God.
18:57I couldn't say.
18:58Um
19:00Geez, I'm trying to think. I mean,
19:02you know, I dated a fireman. Um What was
19:06his name? Mike Grant. Um and I'm trying
19:10to think when I
19:10>> the LAFD or He was LAFD. Mhm. Um
19:14trying to think when I went I probably
19:16met Mike. I went to Devonshire
19:19Let's see. I left Hollywood in '80 I I
19:22worked Hollywood '84
19:25to '85, I think.
19:27And then I went to Devonshire and that's
19:28when I met Mike.
19:30Um
19:32and some other firemen.
19:34And What at the station next door? No,
19:36actually. Cuz I used to work Hollywood,
19:38so I was just wondering if it was the
19:39station
19:39>> No. It was in When I worked Devonshire,
19:41I met Mike.
19:42>> Oh, okay. All right.
19:44And I'm trying to think. I went to
19:46Devonshire in '85. And I'm thinking that
19:50I would have met him probably sometime
19:53shortly after I went to Devonshire cuz I
19:55met him and his I actually met his
19:57buddies at a fight.
19:59Um, and then
20:02Mike and I dated
20:04you know, just really kind of casually.
20:06>> Uh-huh. Um,
20:09and we remained very you know, we
20:10remained good friends. Um,
20:13>> in touch with him or Unfortunately, he
20:15passed away. Oh, really?
20:16>> He died in a um, he had a car crash um,
20:20he did uh, race cars and um, he went
20:23head-on into a wall.
20:25>> Mhm.
20:26I couldn't tell you what year that was.
20:28Um, but he passed away. He was in a coma
20:31and they pulled the the plug.
20:32>> Right. Seems like mhm, uh, anyway. Um,
20:36so
20:37you know,
20:38I couldn't even tell you what what year.
20:41I'm thinking I went to Devonshire in '85
20:42and I know I met the guys cuz I it was
20:44kind of a funny incident of how I met
20:46them. And that's how I remember. It was
20:48sometime probably '85. Right. Um, you
20:51know, if we specifically I don't even
20:53know if they remember. The other two are
20:55now married to somebody else cuz I kind
20:57of
20:59all three I mean,
21:00>> Did you guys socialize like when you
21:01were out with Mike did those guys come
21:03out with you too? Was it kind of like
21:04did you do stuff with his friends or
21:06>> um, there were three there was two
21:08firemen Eric and Gary.
21:10Um, I met them first.
21:12Then they introduced me to Mike.
21:14So that's how I met Mike and Mike dated
21:15Mike Mike and I dated.
21:17>> Mhm. So The detectives stay friendly but
21:19narrow in. They ask simple checkable
21:22facts about the wife, name, job,
21:24wedding, where John lived and whether
21:26Stephanie ever visited. Then they lock
21:29the timeline by stating she died in 1986
21:32and watch how her story fits. Stephanie
21:35answers with lots of maybe and long side
21:37trips, a dying friend, scanning photos,
21:40which signal distance and fog.
21:42>> I wouldn't even say I couldn't even tell
21:43you for how long because then it was so
21:45we decided I it wasn't working out and
21:47we'd be better friends and
21:50you know, he introduced me I think
21:52to some other guy on that who now is on
21:54LAPD. Um,
21:57uh,
21:59Randy Cordobas.
22:01Um,
22:02I don't think I know him.
22:04>> He's got a twin brother who's on the
22:05fire department. That's how I met Randy.
22:08Um, because he had a twin brother a
22:10identical twin on the fire department.
22:12>> Okay. Um,
22:14and And what you you were already
22:16>> I dated him.
22:18When I couldn't tell you. It was before
22:19he came on the job.
22:21Oh, before Randy came on the job? Yeah.
22:23>> Oh, okay. And that was
22:26um,
22:27I Oh, I'm trying to God, I'm trying to
22:29remember if Mike Mike may have
22:34I'm trying to remember.
22:36Mike may have dated um,
22:39a girl that he dated.
22:41I don't God, it sounds too weird. Um,
22:45Randy may have dated a gal that Mike was
22:48dating.
22:49And that and then Mike
22:51Randy broke up with that gal.
22:53I couldn't even tell you what the gal's
22:55name if I'm even thinking of the story
22:57right. And then I started dating Randy.
22:59Yeah. Oh.
23:01I you know, so again, I mean,
23:04not like I was a huge floozy or
23:06anything, but
23:07>> No, but you know, I mean a lot of times,
23:09right? At least from my female partners
23:11that I've had, you know, it's hard
23:12dating guys that aren't involved in kind
23:15of our circle, right? Because some a lot
23:16some guys are intimidated by you know,
23:18women police officers and Yeah, Randy
23:20was like an engineer at the time. Uh, he
23:22was like a some kind of an engineer. On
23:24a truck on a rig on a fire truck?
23:26>> Um, an engineer um, Oh, professional
23:28engineer. I Okay.
23:30>> lost a job and then came on on the
23:32department.
23:32>> I see. So um, But getting back to some
23:35stuff
23:36as far as you recall after John's wife
23:38died,
23:41did you start a relationship again with
23:43with John or
23:44dating casually or anything like that?
23:48Like I said,
23:50he met Greg and I in Hawaii, okay?
23:53Um,
23:56That was something you guys kind of
23:57planned together like go as a group or
23:59you you got ran into him or No, I I
24:01think that
24:03obviously I must have talked to him
24:05and I said, "Hey, I'm going to Hawaii
24:07with my buddy Greg. We're we're scu
24:10we're scu we just got certified scuba
24:11diving. Um,
24:14uh, we're going to be in Hawaii. Hey, if
24:15you want to come and join us, come join
24:17us." Right.
24:18>> And I I think that's what it was. Okay.
24:20>> Um,
24:21I met I may have asked some other people
24:23to as well.
24:24Um,
24:25you know,
24:26uh, what island did we go to?
24:30I think the Big Island and Kauai. He
24:32either met us on the Big Island or
24:34Kauai. I'm thinking of
24:35scu Greg and I might have scuba dived a
24:38lot in on the Big Island
24:40as well as Kauai. I'm I I don't remember
24:43which island again. I'd have to look at
24:44my pictures. Um, I traveled a lot
24:48Uh-huh. um, on my vacations. I mean, I
24:49was always gone for at least a month.
24:52Um,
24:54and I would go places and I would either
24:56run into people or you know,
24:58you know, meet people.
25:00Um,
25:01And
25:02Greg, uh, this Greg we're talking about
25:04he was
25:06like a someone you were dating or just a
25:08buddy or No, you know what? I would I
25:10would say
25:11we started out um, probably just
25:14buddies. Um, and either I was with
25:18somebody or he was with somebody, but we
25:20kind of like we ended up just kind of
25:22being like brother and sister. Um,
25:25and maybe he wanted something more, but
25:27um,
25:28you know, it just it never you know,
25:31worked out, but we we we did things
25:32together. Um, you know, I consider him
25:35I've probably known him
25:39let's see, I've been on the job almost
25:4026 years.
25:42I've probably known Greg 23, 24 years.
25:45Um, So you still talk to him?
25:47Oh, yeah, he's dying of liver cancer
25:49right now. Yeah. Yeah, so um, so you
25:53know, I I consider him a good friend.
25:55Um,
25:56you know, um,
26:01you know, I don't know what to tell you
26:02on that. Um, I mean, when when you heard
26:04about uh,
26:06John's wife being killed, I mean, what
26:07was your what was your reaction? I mean,
26:09would you
26:10you thought you heard about it what
26:11through a friend or in a bulletin or
26:13something?
26:14>> friend or a bulletin. Um, I obviously I
26:16mean, I called I called the family. Um,
26:19I called maybe some of his friends that
26:21that that I knew and I mean, obviously
26:22it shocked you if you're if I heard it
26:24at work, you know, um, which I may have
26:27I I faintly remember a bulletin going
26:29around.
26:30Um,
26:31either that or somebody called me. I I
26:33also don't remember. Right.
26:35>> Um,
26:35uh, and then I called probably called
26:37his family.
26:38Um, called uh,
26:41I
26:41don't know initially
26:43I can't say if I initially spoke to him
26:45or not. I honestly don't remember.
26:47I may have said to somebody, "Hey, have
26:49him call me if he wants to talk."
26:51And then he may have done that.
26:53>> Uh-huh. Um,
26:55you know, um,
26:57Do you know what the circumstances were
27:00regarding her death? Mhm.
27:04Geez, let me think back.
27:06Um,
27:08geez,
27:09I don't know if it was you know, if it
27:11was a burglary or something. Uh, yeah,
27:14it's I mean, it's been so many years I I
27:16mean, I can faintly think that I may
27:18have saw a flyer. Yeah. Uh, may have had
27:21her picture on it, you know, um, I mean,
27:24that's why I say if somebody had called
27:26me,
27:27I may not have known what her last name
27:29was. I may have I mean, maybe if you
27:31told me I would remember it. Um, Do you
27:34remember her first name?
27:36Shelly, um, Sherry.
27:40I don't know something maybe you know,
27:42um, like I said, it's been so many years
27:44and
27:45um,
27:46From all the years as far as you can
27:48remember, do you don't do you do you
27:49remember ever talking to her? Just Well,
27:52I
27:52I said earlier, you know, I mean
27:55I may have, you know, I may have talked
27:58to her. Um, it sound I you know,
28:02You mentioned a hospital maybe. You may
28:03have talked to her at the hospital.
28:06Yeah, um,
28:08yeah, I may have
28:09you know, I'm I'm I'm thinking back now
28:10you guys are bringing up all these whole
28:12memories. No, it kind of dusts off the
28:13cobwebs and stuff.
28:14>> jeez.
28:15Um,
28:19I'm thinking that
28:22because I mean, we would date he would
28:23date other people. I would date other
28:25people. Mhm. And I think you know,
28:30at one point I mean, he may have been
28:32dating her or I don't know. Maybe he was
28:35married. I don't even remember.
28:37And I'm like, "You know what? Why are
28:38you calling me if you're either dating
28:41her or living with her or married to
28:42her?" I I cuz I honestly don't remember
28:44the time frame. Mhm. Um, and I'm like,
28:45"Come on, knock it off." And I'm And now
28:47I'm thinking I I may have gone to her
28:49and said, "Hey, you know what?
28:51You know what? Is he dating you? He's
28:53bothering me." Um, and so I'm thinking
28:55that we had a conversation about that.
28:58Um,
28:59one or two maybe. I
29:01You know, I it could have been three. I
29:03don't want to say I had three
29:04conversations with her. Like at like at
29:06her work or at their at their house or
29:09No, I'm thinking that I
29:11you know, he obviously must have told me
29:12where she worked. I'm thinking it was a
29:14hospital somewhere
29:16in LA and I just I mean, I could have
29:19been
29:20again, what year was that? Where was I
29:21working? Um,
29:29you know, I don't I don't I'm trying to
29:31think of where
29:32You when did you say they got married?
29:35I don't know. I think it was like
29:37in '85 or '86 or something like that.
29:41Yeah, we we we we just kind of picked
29:43this up. We don't you know, I don't know
29:44a lot about it.
29:51>> He fought me.
29:52I mean, I could have been working in
29:54Hollywood, it sounds like, if if that's
29:56where I was working.
29:57Um so, I could have said, "Okay, well,
30:00you know," and I would have talked to
30:00her. Um and just said, "Hey, you know
30:03what?
30:04You know, if he's dating you, he's he's
30:06keeps calling me. Why don't you tell him
30:08to knock it off or whatever?" And No,
30:10because I probably would have told him
30:11to knock it off. You would have called
30:13John? Oh, yeah. I mean, I would have
30:15said, "Hey, you know,
30:17And again, But you wanted to tell her,
30:19too? You wanted them both to know?
30:21>> Yeah, I mean, you know, if you get
30:22you're getting her
30:23called and then I'm try I'm faintly
30:25remembering
30:26uh
30:27when Scott moved in with me in 1993.
30:31Sometime in '93, cuz I met Scott in in
30:36in April of '92. I was teaching DARE up
30:38in Oregon. Mhm. Um
30:41and
30:43um
30:45he moved down. In fact, he may have
30:47moved down in '92.
30:49'92 or '93, there was a big earthquake.
30:51No, when was the big earthquake?
30:53No, '94. '94, yeah. 5.9
30:58I think Scott might have might moved in
30:59in '93, sometime in '93.
31:03Excuse me.
31:05I haven't had my breakfast yet.
31:07Um
31:08and so,
31:09um
31:11Excuse me.
31:12Um
31:13and so, I faintly recall that John may
31:16have called a few times and I'm like,
31:18"Hey, you know, I've got He goes, "Look,
31:20can you I like, you can you talk or
31:22something?" I'm like, "You know, no, I
31:23can't talk. I've got you know, I'm
31:24living with somebody." Right.
31:26>> You know, and then that could have been
31:27a few times, it could have been once,
31:28could have been twice, could have been
31:29three times. Yeah, I don't know, you
31:31know? Um And that's during the period of
31:33time of the earthquake that you were No,
31:36probably probably after Scott moved in.
31:38I think I met Scott in April of '92.
31:40>> Okay, right before.
31:42April of '92, cuz I was I I stopped
31:44teaching DARE.
31:51Think I stopped teaching DARE sometime
31:52in '92. Mhm. Um
31:57And when you and when you say that you
31:58may have
32:00um you know, that you talked to his
32:01wife, said, "Hey, you or you know, I
32:03don't know if it was I guess it wasn't
32:04his wife at that time, girlfriend or
32:06whatever." And
32:06>> Yeah, I don't know if it was his wife or
32:07his I I I I mean, quite honestly, I
32:09don't even remember.
32:10>> When you said like, "Hey, you know, he's
32:11calling me, he needs to knock it off or
32:12what have you." I mean, was that was
32:14that civil? Was there Oh, yeah, no,
32:15there was not I don't think there was
32:16anything It was if the conversation
32:18lasted a
32:20a few minutes, I can't even remember. It
32:21wasn't like, you know, we went out to
32:22lunch or anything.
32:23>> Right, but there was no like arguments
32:24or fights or it didn't get heated or
32:27anything like that.
32:28>> I recall, no. I mean,
32:30I would think that would stand out, I
32:31would think. Now, again, that's not
32:33standing out in my mind. Um
32:36you know,
32:39So, you didn't have any problems with
32:40her then? No.
32:42No.
32:42>> No, I mean, But let me let me ask you.
32:45Seems like you didn't have any issue.
32:47Now, did she have an issue with you as
32:49far as because now you you're telling
32:51her, "Hey,
32:52you know, have him to stop calling us."
32:53You know, she's like, "Yeah."
32:54You know, you figure she'd be threatened
32:56by you.
32:57>> You know, I
32:58I don't know. I mean, From what you
33:00remember as far as when you talked to
33:02her, maybe you didn't take it as
33:04serious, but maybe, you know, did she?
33:06Maybe she was bugged.
33:07>> like was she throwing things at me or
33:08something or
33:09>> Well, no, just
33:10as far as
33:11you're trying to explain like, "Hey,
33:12have him stop calling me, you know, stop
33:14playing games."
33:15>> I I tell you
33:17if the conversation I couldn't even tell
33:18you how long the conversation If you
33:19said, "Did it last a half an hour? Did
33:21it last 3 minutes? Did it last 20
33:23minutes?" I can't even remember, it's
33:25been so long ago, you know? Um You just
33:28remember talking to her, telling her
33:29that that
33:29>> why you said, "How many times you talked
33:30to her?" I don't know how many times I
33:32talked to her. Maybe it was once, maybe
33:33it was twice, maybe it was three times.
33:35You know, I I I honestly don't know.
33:37Now, this is true. You can't possibly
33:39expect someone to remember conversations
33:41he had 20 years ago. But the detectives
33:44know that she is guilty. They have the
33:46evidence. And I suppose that if you
33:48murder someone, you will remember
33:50everything about it for your whole life.
33:52in such and such year, I'd go Okay,
33:53well, I don't even know what year year
33:55he met her. Um
33:57I graduated from UCLA in 1982, okay?
34:01I graduated in '82.
34:03Like I said, I don't know if he
34:04graduated I know he was
34:06a little older than I was. So, I don't
34:08know if he graduated a year before or 2
34:10years before because people are on
34:11different
34:12um either on the 4-year program or the
34:145-year program.
34:15>> Mhm. Um What year did you come on the
34:17job?
34:18'83.
34:20Oh, so almost pretty much immediately
34:21after you got out of school?
34:24Yeah, I worked at a law firm for a year.
34:26Um
34:28and then came on the job.
34:30But in anyway, in regards to seeing him,
34:32not seeing him,
34:34we went to friends' weddings that were,
34:36you know,
34:37from UCLA.
34:39I may have gone to some of his friends'
34:41weddings from where he worked.
34:43He may have gone to things with me, you
34:46know? Um
34:49You know, I mean, I I
34:50I don't know how many times we went to
34:52do things, you know? Or didn't do
34:54things.
34:55>> Right. Like I said, his sister
34:57um
34:58um I know his sister uh
35:01his brother, his sister I know stayed at
35:03my townhouse
35:05a number of times. I couldn't tell you
35:07how many times.
35:08>> Right. Um
35:10I would watch his brother, you know, I
35:12she uh take pictures at a basketball
35:14game or or two.
35:15>> Where was your townhouse at? In Granada
35:17Hills.
35:18Um uh below the Odyssey.
35:21I don't know what the Odyssey is. Oh,
35:22I'm sorry. The 405 and the 5 um the 405
35:25and the the the 405 turns into the 5,
35:27the 118. Um they they came down in the
35:30earthquake. Okay. So. Okay.
35:34And you were saying
35:35when you went to see her,
35:37do you do you remember if it was at her
35:39house or at
35:41at the place she worked at?
35:44No, I'm thinking that I'm thinking that
35:45it was probably
35:48For some reason, I want to say that the
35:50hospital seemed that, you know, if if
35:52you say he got married in
35:54'85 or something, I'm thinking that, you
35:57know, maybe the hospital was on my way
35:59to work in Hollywood. I mean, that's
36:01kind of sounding familiar.
36:03Um
36:05Would you have gone on duty?
36:07Oh, uh no. I'm sure I wouldn't. If I No,
36:09I'm I'm pretty good about not doing
36:11stuff. Okay. You know, I mean, now I'm
36:12not saying that, you know, you haven't
36:14done stuff on duty, but I I I would have
36:18I mean, I would have been working with
36:19somebody. Okay. You know, so
36:21I wouldn't I wouldn't think I mean, I
36:23try to avoid doing stuff on duty. So.
36:26>> So, you would have gone if it was in
36:28route to work, you more than likely
36:30would have gone to her work and had this
36:32discussion with her. I mean, that's
36:33sounding familiar. I mean, that's Now
36:35that you guys are bringing this stuff
36:37up, um
36:38I mean, it sound that sounds familiar.
36:40Um but again, I mean, you know,
36:44What's I mean, what's this got to do
36:45with me dating him and, you know, her
36:47getting killed? I mean, I I I don't you
36:49know, I don't have anything to do with
36:51it and
36:52you got something that's somebody said,
36:54you know, whatever. I mean, Well, like
36:56we said, we we just literally got this
36:58the other day and and you're going
36:59through it. Yeah.
37:01>> see your name
37:02>> next next door. Right. And so, you know,
37:04I mean, obviously, it's like we
37:05recognize the name, we know that you
37:07know, you work next door to us. And so,
37:09we're trying to get some background,
37:10we're trying to figure this out. I mean,
37:11this is from a long time ago. You know,
37:13and and and and things have been kind of
37:14slow for us. And so, you know, Chief
37:16Beck has said, "Hey, you know, I want
37:17you guys working. I don't want you to
37:19sit around reading the paper."
37:20>> Yeah. So, he's kind of pushing some
37:22older cases out even to the guys that
37:23work active cases because, you know, and
37:25so we see this and we're just like, "Oh,
37:26well, you know, we want to talk to you
37:27about it." But of course, the only
37:29reason we did it here is because we're
37:30getting into some pretty personal stuff
37:31in your relationship.
37:32>> I I my husband's on the job. We've been
37:34married a long
37:35time.
37:36>> to take the risk We don't want to take
37:36the risk in one of those interview
37:37rooms. And even with the door closed,
37:38someone's going to get supplies and see
37:40us on a monitor or hears or whatever.
37:41>> I appreciate it. I mean, I appreciate
37:43it. Like I said,
37:44>> That's where people go when there's
37:44quarrels, you know, when they're doing
37:45quarrels, guys will go in there and try
37:46and watch and be like, "Oh, what are the
37:47answers to the questions, you know?"
37:49>> know that. Yeah, so so we just we just
37:51want to afford you the most privacy and
37:52confidentiality we could. No, I
37:54appreciate it. Like I said, I mean, this
37:56goes way back and I mean, it was very
37:58sad, you know, obviously um
38:02I I haven't you know, I
38:04When we were in college,
38:06some of us would go down to his house in
38:08San Diego. I went down to his house with
38:10him,
38:11you know, with with him. I know I'm
38:14trying to think of some of the people
38:15that may have gone down to his house.
38:16>> grew up? Is down there? Yeah, down in
38:17San Diego.
38:19I know his dad was a professor at San
38:21Diego State. I don't know if he still
38:23is. Mhm. Um
38:25I don't know what happened to his
38:26sister, don't know what happened to his
38:27brother. Um
38:30You know, I'm sure his dad's probably
38:31retired by now.
38:33He was I think older
38:35um even back then. Right.
38:38>> Um
38:39and I I can't even tell you the last
38:41time I had any contact with any of them.
38:43It's been so long. Did he tell you what
38:45happened? Like what he heard from the
38:46detectives or the police or
38:50You know what? He may have um
38:54For some reason, I'm thinking that
38:57I mean, again, this is like
39:04drugs or something. I mean, I think I
39:06faintly remember him
39:08mentioning something maybe about
39:10cocaine.
39:11Um
39:13That she was involved with that? You
39:14know, I don't know that he said she was
39:16involved or they thought she was you
39:18know, again, it's been so long. I you
39:20know, he could have mentioned he could
39:22have told me the whole story of what
39:24happened. And I mean, like I said, I'm
39:26faintly remembering even between him or
39:28the flyer um
39:31that there was some kind of a burglary.
39:34Um
39:36You know,
39:37Let me ask if the did the detectives
39:38ever reach out to you? Ever No, no one's
39:41ever talked to me. I don't think anybody
39:42ever talked to me about about him.
39:45You know, well, I take
39:50I'm thinking that I did talk to a
39:52detective.
39:54Um
39:55God.
39:57Well, what division was it?
39:59In Van Nuys?
40:01Hm.
40:03And where was I working?
40:05Um 1986?
40:08I would have been working Devonshire.
40:12You know, I'm thinking that I did speak
40:14to somebody. Oh, really?
40:16>> I couldn't tell you who it was.
40:18Cuz it doesn't it doesn't say anything
40:19about
40:20>> the phone. Okay.
40:22Would have been somebody in regards to
40:24this or just
40:25>> Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Um
40:29I don't even know if you said a name if
40:30I would have remembered it. Because I
40:31worked Van Nuys for a while. Oh, you
40:33did?
40:34Yeah, I worked um Detectives patrol?
40:36>> No, we're detectives.
40:38>> Uh-huh. Um
40:40When did I go to Van Nuys?
40:43I worked Devonshire till '88. Then I
40:46went to DARE till '92.
40:49I worked twice at Van Nuys.
40:51Um Both as detective? Yeah.
40:58Sometime in the '90s. Okay. Um
41:04Yeah, I
41:05I know before I busted my leg up, I was
41:07there in '98 cuz that year sticks out
41:10because I had a really bad leg injury.
41:12Um
41:14and I was there prior to that, but I
41:16couldn't tell you what year. It was just
41:18a few years. I made detective, I think,
41:19in '93.
41:23'93. So, um
41:26I was at Van Nuys and then I went back
41:29and then I had a leg injury and then
41:31they transferred me to Devonshire cuz I
41:32couldn't drive. Uh-huh. I couldn't drive
41:34very far with the my bad leg injury. So,
41:38um
41:39But yeah, I I I think I talked to
41:41somebody. Um Remember any Would you
41:44remember any of the conversation as far
41:46as what they were looking for or
41:49Couldn't say. I mean, they may have told
41:51me I said, "Hey, you know, I went to
41:53school with him."
41:55Um I either they either somebody called
41:57me or I saw the flyer. I may have seen
41:58the flyer at that point and I called up
42:01if if someone's name was on the flyer, I
42:03may have called to speak to them. I
42:05said, "Hey, if there's anything I can
42:06do, you know, um call me. This is where
42:09I work. You know, I went to
42:12you know,
42:13school with them. Uh-huh. Um
42:17Couldn't say. I couldn't tell you who it
42:18was.
42:20But you do remember that that someone
42:22you think reached out to you.
42:24You mean a detective?
42:25>> Yeah. Called you up and talked to you.
42:28Or I called them. One of the two. Yeah,
42:30I
42:31You know, I I remember talking to
42:33somebody, but
42:35I'm thinking it was a man.
42:37I'm sure there's probably more men back
42:39then. Right. I'm back. Um
42:43So, again, that's
42:45I mean, that's all really all I can
42:47remember about that. Yeah.
42:50Let me get back to
42:53as far as when you said that uh
42:55John was calling you to to see you. And
42:58during that time you felt that he was
43:00was felt he was either seeing her, was
43:02he engaged or married? Did Did you know?
43:05Couldn't say. You don't remember? You
43:07know, I don't know. Uh-huh. Um I
43:09Did he ever appear
43:10>> Well, let's see. My husband Did it ever
43:12appear
43:12>> Well, no. No, that would have been
43:14Scott moved in '93.
43:17So, that would have been You said '86 or
43:19'85 or something.
43:20>> Scott's your only husband? You've never
43:21been married?
43:21>> Yeah. No. Never been married. I got
43:23married in I think '96. When I I know I
43:25got married in '96, but he moved in in
43:27'93. Uh-huh.
43:30But uh
43:31during that time that you were seeing
43:32John, uh
43:34you know, was he acting kind of you
43:36know, kind of squirrely or kind of
43:37sneaking around when he'd hook up with
43:39you or anything like that
43:41to make you think, "Hey, you know, yeah,
43:42this guy is kind
43:43>> was. I mean,
43:45I mean, cuz I from the impression I get
43:47is you've known him a long time. Well,
43:49let's see. From what earlier
43:50>> I met him in '78. No, I
43:52I met him in school I started UCLA in
43:54'78. Um So, you know him well.
43:58During that period of time. Yeah, I
44:00mean, was he acting squirrely?
44:04You know,
44:05I don't even remember where he was
44:06living in then. You know, I
44:09Well, that's
44:10>> I know Well, let me ask you after he
44:12hooked up with I mean, if he was living
44:13on Roscoe or wherever else he was
44:15living. Right. Well, after he hooked up
44:18with
44:19with Sherry,
44:20do you know
44:21where they were living?
44:23No, you asked me that already. Uh-huh.
44:25And I said, "Well, obviously we're
44:26living in Van Nuys division." Yeah.
44:29Um
44:31I may have known. I mean, I you know,
44:33again, I you know, did he ever give me
44:35the address?
44:37Maybe.
44:38You know, I don't remember. I mean, I
44:40don't know.
44:42Cuz the only reason I'm asking you again
44:44is cuz as we've been talking, I know
44:45some stuff has come to you cuz you're
44:46like, "Oh, this is something You know,
44:48So,
44:50that's why I'm asking if you've ever
44:50been to the house.
44:51>> And when you said Van Nuys division,
44:55you know, I'm just
45:01I'm sure he could have told me. I mean,
45:02he could have told me. He could have
45:03told me where he lived. Um
45:08Did you ever have gone there?
45:10I don't think I've ever gone there.
45:12That's what I'm saying. I don't
45:13I don't want to say no, I've never gone
45:15there and then you say, "Oh, I was at a
45:16party."
45:17Cuz I I I don't you know, I don't think
45:20so. Yeah. Um like I said, we've got
45:23these friends. We have different We have
45:24parties.
45:26Um
45:27my house, their house.
45:29I I just don't think John ever came to
45:32an
45:33Again, you know, at one point because we
45:36we knew people from school together.
45:38I knew different people. Oh, he knew
45:40different people. I knew people that he
45:42knew from his work. Um
45:44You know, that lived in the valley.
45:46Um
45:48You know,
45:50So, as far as for social events or
45:52anything, I mean, it's
45:55I mean, you're not sure if you've ever
45:56been to the house cuz
46:02But it's safe to say that would have
46:03been the only time like for something
46:04social.
46:06Yeah, if I went there for something
46:08social, yeah. I mean, Because I know you
46:10you went to talk to her
46:12at at the hospital
46:14uh regarding this issue with John
46:17to you know, kind of like they you know,
46:19what's going to happen here with this
46:20thing.
46:21But would this ever have followed up to
46:23her house where you went to talk to her
46:24to say, "Hey, you know what?" So far,
46:26the detectives stay casual, but keep
46:28circling the same points.
46:30Did Stephanie see John after he married?
46:32Did she meet the wife and where? She
46:35drifts into long side stories, friends,
46:37photos, earthquakes while giving
46:39slippery answers.
46:41She first says no detectives ever
46:43contacted her, then changes it to maybe
46:46a male detective on the phone.
46:49She's vague on the wife's name and cause
46:51of death and shifts on meeting the wife
46:54maybe at a hospital once to one, two,
46:56maybe three times.
46:57>> I know that I knew where they lived. I
47:00you know, that's what I'm saying. I
47:00don't If I knew where they lived and I'd
47:03been there if it was for something
47:04social,
47:05I I would I'm I'm
47:07and I can't see how many times I I saw
47:09her face to face.
47:10You know, he lived on Roscoe. Did I ever
47:12see her there? I don't know. I mean, I
47:15may have seen her at his apartment on
47:17Roscoe. Uh-huh.
47:19I may have met her there. Um
47:21you know, I I mean,
47:23But you didn't have any issues with her,
47:25right?
47:26No, I mean, you know, obviously if he
47:29was dating me and dating her, I I
47:30probably said, "Hey, pick or something."
47:32You know, you know, back then. Um
47:36I can't say that we ever screamed or
47:39yeah you know, it's I mean, he was a
47:41pretty mellow guy.
47:43You know, um
47:45I think I was pretty mellow. I don't I
47:47don't think we had some big huge blowup
47:49to say
47:50you know, why we stopped dating or you
47:52know,
47:53and I even think that when I was dating
47:55him, I was probably like I said, I was
47:57probably going out with other guys and
47:58he was probably going out with other
48:00girls. You know, I don't know. I mean,
48:02would you remember if she snapped on you
48:05and just like, "Hey, man, it's my man.
48:06You know, you get Leave him alone." You
48:08know, blah blah blah. That kind of
48:09stuff.
48:10You know,
48:12And would you remember an incident like
48:14that? I mean, cuz that would be like
48:15what? Well, you know, and maybe that
48:17happened. I mean,
48:19I I I
48:20Gosh, I you know,
48:22it's been so long ago. I you know, I
48:24just I mean, that's not ringing a bell.
48:27>> Uh-huh. Um I mean, cuz the times I've
48:29seen you around at our office,
48:31>> I'm crazy. You know, but you're always
48:33kind of like real
48:35I mean, you seem kind of bubbly. Oh, I'm
48:37I'm you know, people think I'm really
48:38hyper. Um but I can I mean, I can get
48:42I can get upset. You know, and and then
48:44I forget 5 seconds later. You know, you
48:46know how guys rag you and you go Ah, you
48:49know, um
48:51I mean, I've done that in the office,
48:52you know, but it's like and then I'm you
48:54know, and then I'm
48:56you know, uh you know, I mean, people
48:58think
48:59>> Yeah, I mean, it's like people think I'm
49:00crazy and then they think I'm crazy at
49:03home and I'm you know, more I'm I'm a
49:05hyper person at work. I'm you know, I I
49:07enjoy my job. I get excited. I you know,
49:10um
49:11I I enjoy the job. I've always enjoyed
49:14the job.
49:15Um Well, you got a good gig, so.
49:17You know,
49:18um so, you know, I
49:21I you know, I don't know. It's like I
49:22said, this stuff's been so long ago. Um
49:25You know, I'm sure as soon as I walk out
49:27here, I'll go, "Oh, shoot. I did 25
49:29things I'll remember."
49:31Um you know, But you should call us or I
49:33mean, you'll just come over our desk and
49:34tell us. mean,
49:35>> I don't know what else you need to know.
49:36Like I said, you know, we we knew
49:38friends together.
49:40A lot of the friends that, you know,
49:42that we socialized in the dorms. I would
49:44say, I mean, there was a group of us
49:46that
49:47um we were all really close. I mean,
49:50even this one guy I was thinking of, you
49:51know, um Diana Basta. We were all really
49:54close. I haven't talked to her in a
49:56million years. Um Diana Basta being a
49:59friend of you and John's or
50:01>> Yeah, we all lived on the dorms on the
50:03dorms together. I don't know if she
50:04lived on the same we
50:06I'm trying to think I think I know John
50:08lived on our floor because his roommate
50:09was Dave Newman. Dave Newman now is a
50:12big huge big shot.
50:14Whatever.
50:15Movie producer, director, something. I
50:17don't know. Um And that was John's
50:19roommate? Yeah. And then the guys that
50:21lived across from me
50:23um Jim Jascul and Roy
50:27Sakaboo Sakaboo, something like that. Um
50:29they lived across from me.
50:31Um Diana Basta
50:35I don't know if she lived on our floor.
50:36Maybe she was the RA.
50:38Um
50:40Diane Sherman
50:42um cuz I still remain friends with Diane
50:44Sherman.
50:45Um not that I'm not friends with the
50:46other people. I just don't see them. Um
50:50a girl named Smita
50:52um
50:53Sally
50:56Kathleen. You know, so we we were all on
50:59the floor. I mean, some of them were
51:01athletes, some of them weren't. You
51:02know, I said John played basketball, his
51:04brother played basketball. I played
51:05basketball at UCLA for 2 years. Um
51:08one of the girls swam on the team, one
51:09was on the crew team. So, we all did
51:11stuff together. Um and then I'd say
51:14after we all graduated, um we went to
51:16weddings, you know, I went to weddings.
51:18Um
51:19uh
51:21But Sherry wasn't part of this circle.
51:23No, I don't even know how he how he met
51:25her. I don't even know where I mean, I
51:27don't know where he met her from. I
51:28don't even know he told me where he met
51:30her from. I mean, he may have told me. I
51:32you know, that's not ringing a bell. Um
51:36And there was lots I mean, you know,
51:38there's just
51:39there was other people that knew other
51:40people
51:42um you know, that were friends of
51:44everybody's. Um
51:47you know.
51:49Um I mean, I don't know what else to
51:50tell you. Well, one of the concerns I
51:52have as we're looking at some of the
51:53notes is uh
51:55some of Sherry's friends said that
51:58you and her were having a problem
52:00because of the John situation.
52:06Well,
52:07I number one, I don't know who her
52:08friends are.
52:09Um cuz again, I don't I don't recall if
52:13he did tell me where he met her.
52:16I don't even who these friends are.
52:18A problem?
52:19Like I said, if I spoke to her
52:22I mean, I'll go out as far on as a limb
52:24and I don't even want to say I spoke to
52:25her five times cuz that's probably not
52:27even true. I I I can't even remember. Um
52:31Again, did I meet him at her place when
52:33he you know, he lived on Roscoe for I
52:34think
52:35uh quite a while, but I couldn't tell
52:37you how long he lived on Roscoe. And the
52:39only reason I remember the place now is
52:40because it's like a huge dope dope place
52:42now where they, you know, it may have
52:44been back then, but you know, maybe we
52:46didn't know back then. Um
52:49I could have met her there. I could have
52:50you know,
52:52uh
52:52For the
52:54You know, I don't even know that I met
52:56any of their friends.
52:58I I you know, I don't I I I can't say
53:00that. I don't know that that's a true
53:02statement. Well, that's what I'm reading
53:04is that
53:05you guys had problems with each other
53:06and words were being exchanged and it's
53:08all relating to John.
53:12You know what? I I I I I just I can't
53:15say. You can't say it? No, I that
53:17doesn't even ring a bell. I mean I mean,
53:19it seemed like yeah, you would recall
53:21something if somebody's going off on
53:23you, right?
53:23>> would think. I mean, I would think.
53:26I would think.
53:27>> Yeah. I mean, cuz it's But that I, you
53:30know, Cuz it seems like your
53:31relationship with John was
53:34kind of
53:36I mean, you've known each other for a
53:37lot of years. Yeah, it was just kind of
53:38it was like
53:42But it doesn't seem to me from what
53:43you're telling me
53:44>> I mean, we were never engaged. I mean,
53:45it wasn't like we were planning to get
53:47married. Um
53:48you know, it was like it it was uh
53:53I don't know how to describe it. I mean
53:55Would you say there wasn't a lot of
53:56drama in this relationship?
53:58>> Oh, no, I don't think there was drama.
53:59Okay. Yeah, I mean That's why I'm asking
54:01as far as what the friends are saying in
54:03regards to
54:05this, you know, the problems that
54:06they're saying you were having with with
54:08Sherry.
54:09I mean, it seems like the relationship
54:11is just going on even plane.
54:12>> That just does I I I that I don't have a
54:15recollection of that at all.
54:16>> No. No. And cuz from what you're telling
54:18me is when you guys met at the hospital
54:21uh
54:22I mean, you guys talked, but it wasn't
54:24from what you recall confrontational
54:27from either side?
54:28I I mean
54:30I'm trying to, you know, turn my memory
54:32back, you know,
54:34and I'm trying I can't even can't even
54:35picture the, you know, picture the the
54:38conversation. I mean, I can't even
54:40picture the conversation.
54:41>> Well, let me ask you. I mean, at the
54:42hospital it never got to the point where
54:43people are going, "Hey, hey, you know,
54:45go to everybody go to your own corner
54:46there" type of thing? I don't think so.
54:48Nothing like that?
54:49>> I don't think so. I mean, I really
54:51don't. I mean, if you you know, if you
54:53say people said that
54:54that's not ringing a bell to me at all.
54:56I mean, it's not. I mean, that that's
54:58not ringing a bell. Was there ever a Was
55:00there ever a time when you and Sherry
55:01were talking and John had to maybe go
55:03like, "Hey, you guys
55:04relax" you know, or anything like that?
55:07I don't think so.
55:09About, you know, ever going to her house
55:11and having a dispute like that.
55:14You know,
55:15I'm just
55:17if I met her ever at his apartment,
55:20maybe. I mean, maybe we could have met
55:21at I could have met her at his
55:22apartment.
55:24I'm thinking that
55:26the hospital thing, that sounds familiar
55:28that I I met her there.
55:32I just can't say that I've ever
55:34Again, was I there with other people?
55:36You know, I don't I I I
55:38I don't know. Um I don't think I ever
55:41met her there or him there.
55:44Um
55:45I mean, him one or the other.
55:47I don't think so.
55:48I I just I can't
55:50I don't think so. Cuz I mean, I know the
55:52way my wife is
55:54at our house she wouldn't want my old
55:55girlfriends there, you know. So, I don't
55:57know if maybe she had the same mentality
56:00towards you if as far as you having her
56:02there or being welcome there, you know,
56:04cuz it's You know what?
56:06If somebody said I was there when they
56:07were there, then that's possible, but I
56:10just I
56:11I don't recall. I mean, I don't think
56:13so. I don't I I it's not sounding
56:15familiar.
56:16Yeah, cuz I guess basically what I'm
56:17asking is, you know, were you ever
56:18welcome to the house like, you know,
56:20"Hey, Oh, come over?" Yeah, come on
56:21over. I'm having a barbecue, you know.
56:25A dinner party, Christmas party,
56:26whatever.
56:28I don't know. I don't know. I'm just
56:30trying to think.
56:33You know, like I said, because there
56:35were so many of us that
56:37the the two Dianes,
56:39um Jim Jascul, Roy, um Smita, this girl
56:42Smita, another friend of ours Beth. I
56:46She pa seems like everybody I know
56:48passed passing away. Um she passed away.
56:50She was a child diabetic and and got
56:53very ill. Um we would all socialize. Um
56:57like I said, I don't think John ever
57:00it's hard I don't want to say he never
57:01socialized with us. Um
57:05you know, it it's been I I'd have to go
57:07almost go back and look at pictures
57:09because I take pictures. I mean, I
57:10usually when I have I go to functions, I
57:13have 10,000 pictures, okay? I'm a
57:15picture nut.
57:16[Music]
57:18Let me ask when you were seeing John,
57:20would you
57:21I I take it he would pick you up in his
57:23car or you go in her you know, your car,
57:25things of that nature?
57:26When you guys would go out?
57:29Well, yeah, I mean
57:29>> Do you remember what he what he drove?
57:34Well, I know at one time he drove either
57:35a 240Z
57:37or 260Z.
57:39Any other cars that stand out in your
57:40mind?
57:42Mm.
57:50[Music]
57:52I I don't know how long he drove that
57:54240Z or 260Z for. Um and the only reason
57:57I say that is cuz I think
58:00I may have a picture of it um with him
58:03in it. Um
58:06What kind of car did you have back then?
58:09Let's see.
58:10What year?
58:11Or are you like one of those young cops
58:13that like, "Oh, I got a paycheck and
58:14bought a new car" or
58:15>> no, I've only had like a few cars in my
58:17whole life. So, what did you have when
58:18you came on the job?
58:23You know, my first car was a '68
58:25Chevelle.
58:27A '68 Chevelle.
58:31And then I had
58:34a
58:35Toyota.
58:39Mm.
58:40Some kind of a Toyota. Mm. Um
58:44hatchback, but I forget what the name of
58:46it was.
58:47Um Like a Corolla or Tercel or
58:50>> Tercel. Something like that.
58:51>> Tercel. Yeah. And then I had my truck.
58:55Did you ever have any problems with your
58:56cars?
58:59Like what?
59:01Just anything in general. You know, car
59:02wrecks, anything Yeah. No, my car's
59:05never been stolen. Oh, no, crashed.
59:09Hit and run.
59:10Um
59:13uh
59:15Hit and I mean, my Tercel was hit and
59:17run. Again, I got I got pictures of the
59:19hit and runs. Um
59:21Yeah, I don't think any of my cars had
59:22ever been stolen. No.
59:24My car's never been stolen.
59:27Broken into.
59:30Um None of that, huh?
59:32Oh, yeah. They My car's been broken
59:33into.
59:35Um
59:37you know,
59:38but no cars have ever been stolen. Mhm.
59:44Hold on. Well, when Tell me about this
59:46uh car getting broken into.
59:48Well, my car's been broken into several
59:50times. Oh, really?
59:52You ever lose anything or
59:54Yeah.
59:56Now that you mention it,
59:58let's see.
1:00:01I had a gun that was stolen. Mhm.
1:00:03Um I had other stuff that was stolen.
1:00:05Not your duty gun, was it?
1:00:07No. That's good.
1:00:09Um Was it ever recovered?
1:00:12I don't know. No, I don't think so. Not
1:00:14that I know of.
1:00:15>> Never been notified? No. Car's been
1:00:17broken into
1:00:19Yeah, several times. Where did that
1:00:21happen when your gun was taken?
1:00:24Mhm.
1:00:28Trying to remember.
1:00:32I'm sure you guys must know.
1:00:34Um
1:00:36cuz my car was broken into in Ventura.
1:00:42I think in Santa Monica. I have
1:00:44relatives that live in Santa Monica and
1:00:45Venice.
1:00:47Um
1:00:47>> Who lives there?
1:00:48My uncle. Well, I had I had several
1:00:50uncles. The detectives keep it calm, but
1:00:53keep looping key anchors. Did she ever
1:00:55go to their home? Meet Sherry? Any
1:00:58fights? Stephanie shifts. First, she
1:01:01didn't know where they lived, then maybe
1:01:03at his Roscoe apartment, then probably
1:01:06at a hospital on my way to work.
1:01:08She insists there was no drama, then
1:01:10concedes maybe that happened.
1:01:13Too many inconsistencies in her story.
1:01:16They baseline her personality, cycle
1:01:18through dorm friends and social events,
1:01:20and introduce third-party claims her
1:01:22friend said there were problems to
1:01:24confront gently.
1:01:28Yeah. Could have been Santa Monica,
1:01:30um Venice.
1:01:32My My car's been broken into in Ventura
1:01:34before.
1:01:36So.
1:01:37Is your mom still around or Mhm. Yeah.
1:01:40Your dad?
1:01:41Yeah. But I don't really have that much
1:01:44of a relationship with my dad.
1:01:47So.
1:01:48I couldn't tell you where he lives if
1:01:49you're you want to know. Oh, really?
1:01:52No. Mhm.
1:01:53Yeah, I couldn't tell you.
1:01:55Well,
1:01:57like I said, as we were looking at the
1:01:58case, and you know, we'd read the notes
1:02:00as far as from uh
1:02:03Sherry's friend saying
1:02:05you you guys had problems or words, and
1:02:08they got heated.
1:02:10You know, the reason we're asking you is
1:02:12they had mentioned that an incident at
1:02:13her work had occurred.
1:02:15And they they've also told us that an
1:02:17incident at her house occurred.
1:02:21You know what? And this is at her house
1:02:23during the period of time that they're
1:02:25married.
1:02:28And that's just not sounding familiar at
1:02:30all. I mean, I You know what? I
1:02:33That's just not sound I I
1:02:35Again, if someone says that I was at her
1:02:37house and I had an incident with her,
1:02:40I I you know, I that just doesn't sound
1:02:42I I I I I I I I I
1:02:44You know, was John there? Did John say
1:02:45this happened because and other people
1:02:47were there?
1:02:48I just I don't recall. I mean, it just
1:02:51doesn't sound, you know, familiar. And
1:02:53this is an incident where you showed up,
1:02:57you weren't supposed to show up,
1:02:59and
1:03:00things got heated.
1:03:01At his house? Yes.
1:03:05It I you know, I that just doesn't sound
1:03:08familiar. I mean,
1:03:09>> Nothing? No.
1:03:10I you know, it's not sounding familiar.
1:03:13So Not at all. Now you're saying not
1:03:15familiar cuz it's just Do you you
1:03:16remember or is it just
1:03:18>> you know what? I would have then I'd
1:03:19have to say I don't remember cuz I don't
1:03:21remember. I That doesn't sound familiar.
1:03:24I
1:03:25I mean, would you remember something
1:03:26like that in your life if Well, I would
1:03:28think, but
1:03:29>> drama involving
1:03:31the other woman type of thing?
1:03:32>> Sure. Did you ever fight with her?
1:03:34You mean like we fought?
1:03:35>> Yeah. Did you ever duke it out with her?
1:03:37No, I don't think so. I mean, You'd
1:03:40remember that, right? That would be
1:03:41pretty Yeah, I would think so. I mean,
1:03:44>> you know.
1:03:45>> Yeah, like I said, I mean, obviously
1:03:48I
1:03:49You know, I mean,
1:03:50it just doesn't sound familiar.
1:03:53I mean, I mean, what are they saying?
1:03:55So, I I I fought with her, so So, now I
1:03:57mean, I I I I I I I'm
1:03:58get getting the jump or the leap.
1:04:01Excuse me. I haven't eaten. Um They're
1:04:03saying, "Okay, I fought with her, so I
1:04:05must have killed her."
1:04:06I mean, come on. I mean, that's, you
1:04:09know, I
1:04:11I don't even know who these people are.
1:04:12I I can't even say I met any of these
1:04:14people. I mean, that's it's insane.
1:04:16I
1:04:17If it happened, I honestly don't
1:04:19remember it.
1:04:21That's all I can tell you. I mean, I
1:04:23mean, both
1:04:24I don't know if you
1:04:25would be something you would remember. I
1:04:27mean, cuz it's I don't know if any other
1:04:29intense incidents in your life that have
1:04:31occurred. I mean, you'd recall those,
1:04:33right? I mean, Well,
1:04:35like a use of force at work or car
1:04:37crash, something you're involved in,
1:04:38you'd be like, "Yeah, I remember
1:04:39>> think I would remember. I mean, I would
1:04:41think if it was something that crazy, I
1:04:43mean, I I I can't say You say, "How many
1:04:45fights have you gotten into, you know,
1:04:48in your life?"
1:04:50You know, I mean, a few at work.
1:04:52>> Well, fights at work are kind of
1:04:53different cuz we've all had uses of
1:04:54force or whatever, but I mean,
1:04:55>> Well, I mean, I haven't had even a lot
1:04:56of those.
1:04:57>> Right. But if you're if you're actually,
1:04:59you know, I mean, I've played
1:05:01>> if Dan and I got mad at each other and
1:05:02we threw blows in the squad room, I
1:05:04mean, 20 years later, I I would remember
1:05:05it. I mean, I would think I would
1:05:07remember it, but
1:05:08that's what I'm saying. That's not
1:05:09sounding familiar to me at all. I mean,
1:05:13Let me ask you. I mean, throughout your
1:05:14life,
1:05:17you know, would you remember the number
1:05:19of fights you've been involved in?
1:05:21And I don't mean kind of like a bump or
1:05:22something, just a physical fight where
1:05:24you
1:05:26everybody's hitting each other,
1:05:27scratching, pulling, you know, whatever.
1:05:30Maybe. I mean, I can't say I've been in
1:05:31a lot. You know, I played sports. Yeah.
1:05:35You know, you get into scuffles there,
1:05:36and
1:05:37>> Mhm.
1:05:37um
1:05:39And you recall some of those, right? Let
1:05:40me just
1:05:41Yeah, I can recall some of them.
1:05:43>> Okay. Yeah, games get intense
1:05:44>> but like I said, this you saying this
1:05:46this is just not ringing a bell. I mean,
1:05:48but you know,
1:05:50I don't know what to tell you. It's it's
1:05:52just that's just not ringing a bell to
1:05:53me.
1:05:54It'd be something I would think I would
1:05:57remember. I mean, I'm
1:05:59If you're in this other
1:06:00>> so, too.
1:06:00>> If you're in this other girl's house and
1:06:02But
1:06:02>> words are exchanged, I mean, you figure
1:06:04you'd recall. I would think.
1:06:06>> Especially if it got physical, right?
1:06:08Well, I would think. And it's relating
1:06:11to
1:06:12you know, a guy that you were dating,
1:06:13and but she's dating now, you know, and
1:06:15it's like a whole
1:06:17love triangle type of thing. I mean, you
1:06:19figure you'd remember that, right? Well,
1:06:20I would think.
1:06:24So.
1:06:26I mean, I don't know what to tell you.
1:06:28Yeah.
1:06:29No, cuz I don't I mean, I'm trying to
1:06:31I'm looking at the notes, and these
1:06:32people are kind of
1:06:34I mean, they're pointing the finger at
1:06:35you. Well, and I mean,
1:06:39that's not ringing a bell to me, so
1:06:42>> Mhm. you know, I don't know you know,
1:06:45it's I I
1:06:47I don't know what to tell you. I mean,
1:06:48that just sounds crazy to me. Yeah. So,
1:06:50you offhand, you don't recall ever going
1:06:52into her house and
1:06:53having words and physically,
1:06:56you know, No. I mean,
1:06:57>> attacking her, her attacking you. No.
1:07:00>> Nothing like that? No. I mean, that's
1:07:02No.
1:07:03Nothing?
1:07:04>> No.
1:07:05No.
1:07:06Not at all. Okay.
1:07:09Well, on some of the
1:07:11uh on this case,
1:07:12you know,
1:07:13this is occurring in what, '86? Right?
1:07:16Uh
1:07:17detectives processed the scene, things
1:07:19of that nature. Uh
1:07:21They did fingerprints and all that
1:07:23stuff, you know, that you Well, you know
1:07:24the standard stuff. I mean, you've been
1:07:25been doing this longer than I have.
1:07:27Uh I don't know about that.
1:07:29I got 20 years. You're on going on 26.
1:07:3219, so.
1:07:34But,
1:07:36you know, as they processed everything,
1:07:38uh they did the best they could at that
1:07:39time, and they looked at a lot of a lot
1:07:40of people and different things in this
1:07:42case.
1:07:42And you're right.
1:07:44>> you guys are claiming that I'm a
1:07:45suspect, then, you know, I I got a
1:07:47problem with, you know, with that. Okay.
1:07:49Okay? So,
1:07:52you know, if you're if you're doing this
1:07:53as an interrogation, you're saying,
1:07:55"Hey, I'm a suspect." Well, now I got a
1:07:57problem with, you know, now you're
1:07:58accusing me of this. Is that what you're
1:08:01Is that what you're saying?
1:08:03We're trying to figure out what
1:08:03happened, Stephanie.
1:08:05Uh Well, I'm I was, you know, I'm just
1:08:08saying.
1:08:09Uh you know,
1:08:10do what I need to get a lawyer if you're
1:08:12accusing me of this?
1:08:13>> you know, You don't have to I mean, you
1:08:15know, you're here of your own free will.
1:08:16I mean, you you know
1:08:17>> I know, but I mean,
1:08:18>> not you're not under arrest. You can
1:08:19walk out whenever you
1:08:20>> whenever you like.
1:08:21>> Well, But you know,
1:08:23I'm trying to give you some background
1:08:24of, you know, how I knew him,
1:08:26and now you're telling me that some
1:08:28somebody's saying that we had this big
1:08:30old fight, and I don't even know what
1:08:31you're talking about. Um you know, and I
1:08:34don't want to, you know, get in trouble
1:08:35for something that I didn't even do, or
1:08:37you're saying I did something.
1:08:40Okay. Yeah, we understand.
1:08:42I mean, how would you guys like it if if
1:08:43tables were turned on you?
1:08:44>> I understand. No, it's
1:08:46No, that's what we're telling you. I
1:08:47mean, you're free to go whenever you
1:08:48want. If if this makes you
1:08:49uncomfortable, and you want to you want
1:08:50to
1:08:51>> you're starting to make me
1:08:51uncomfortable.
1:08:53The thing is, I mean, detectives did
1:08:55what they could at that time on the
1:08:56crime scene. Okay? And the burglary
1:08:58thing you're talking about, that is an
1:08:59angle that they looked at.
1:09:01I go, "But now we're looking at
1:09:02everything else on the case." Cuz nobody
1:09:04was ever arrested on the case. I
1:09:06I don't know that or not.
1:09:08>> Okay.
1:09:10Now, what we'd like to do is
1:09:12obviously, you know about all the DNA
1:09:14stuff and things of the nature that, you
1:09:15know, gets done on cases nowadays.
1:09:18You know, if we asked you for a a DNA
1:09:20swab, would you be willing to give us
1:09:21one? Well, maybe.
1:09:24Cuz now now now Yeah, because now
1:09:27>> Now I'm thinking I probably need to talk
1:09:28to a lawyer.
1:09:30Okay. I mean
1:09:32What? I cuz I know how this stuff works,
1:09:33okay? Don't get me wrong, you're right.
1:09:35I have been doing this a long time. And
1:09:36and I wish I had been recording this
1:09:38because because now it sounds like, you
1:09:40know, there's
1:09:42you know, you're selling these people
1:09:43saying I'm a fighting with her and now
1:09:45you sounds like you're trying to, you
1:09:47know,
1:09:48I've been doing this a long time.
1:09:49>> Yeah, we know.
1:09:49>> Okay. And then and now it almost sounds
1:09:51like you're trying to pin something on
1:09:52me. Now I got that sense. Well, what it
1:09:55gets to on these on these cases and you
1:09:56know it as well as I do. Our job is to
1:09:58identify and eliminate suspects.
1:10:00>> believe this. So, if we ask you to a
1:10:02point give us a DNA sample
1:10:05a buccal swab so we can
1:10:07identify or eliminate you
1:10:09you should be willing to do that. Maybe.
1:10:12Cuz I know this I I I I That's where
1:10:14we're at, too. I mean, because
1:10:17right now from looking at the evidence,
1:10:19it's, you know, it's possible we may
1:10:21have some DNA at the location.
1:10:23That's great. And
1:10:25we're going to do what we can to try to
1:10:27put this thing together.
1:10:29And your name's in the book. These
1:10:31people are pointing at you for whatever
1:10:33reason. I don't know why. That's just
1:10:35crazy. I mean, that's just that's
1:10:36absolutely crazy. And
1:10:39it would be irresponsible on our part
1:10:40not to look at it.
1:10:41>> I know. Are you guys have to do your job
1:10:43and I guess I'm going to have to contact
1:10:45somebody. So. That's fair. I mean, it
1:10:48cuz I know how this stuff works. I mean,
1:10:50I I I I I just can't believe it. That's
1:10:53I mean, we we understand that. I mean,
1:10:55if we were in your position, I mean, we
1:10:56would feel the same way.
1:10:58I just can't even believe it.
1:11:00I mean, it's just
1:11:02I mean, I'm shocked. I'm really shocked.
1:11:04That somebody would be blame saying that
1:11:06I did this. I mean, we had a fight and
1:11:08so I went and killed her. I mean, come
1:11:09on. Well That's
1:11:12Okay.
1:11:13All right.
1:11:14Well, thanks for giving me the courtesy.
1:11:15I wish I
1:11:16could record again. Thanks for your
1:11:17time. Yeah, thank you. All right,
1:11:19Stephanie. Take care. All right.
1:13:23This is absolutely crazy. Have a seat,
1:13:26Stephanie.
1:13:28This is insane. Okay.
1:13:37Give me one second.
1:13:42Okay.
1:13:44Stephanie, you know you have the right
1:13:45to remain silent. Do you understand?
1:13:47Yes.
1:13:48Anything you say may be used against you
1:13:49in court. Do you understand? Yes. You
1:13:51have the right to the presence of an
1:13:52attorney before and during any
1:13:54questioning. Do you understand? Yes.
1:13:56If you cannot afford an attorney, one
1:13:57will be appointed for you free of charge
1:13:59before any questioning if you want. Do
1:14:00you understand? Yes.
1:14:02Do you want to talk to us right now? No.
1:14:05All right.
1:14:05>> Okay. This is crazy. Okay. This is
1:14:08absolutely
1:14:09I'm like I'm like in shock. I'm totally
1:14:11in shock.
1:14:16When they finally dropped the DNA swabs,
1:14:18she realized she was in big trouble and
1:14:20started asking for a lawyer. This is how
1:14:23she realized she is cooked. Stephanie
1:14:26Lazarus was convicted of first-degree
1:14:28murder in March 2012 and 2 months later
1:14:31received a sentence of 27 years to life,
1:14:34parole eligibility beginning after
1:14:36roughly 14 years.
1:14:38Back at the start of the case, December
1:14:402009, a judge set her bail at $10
1:14:43million
1:14:44and every attempt to lower it failed.
1:14:46Years later, freedom kept slipping
1:14:48further away. Her parole was denied in
1:14:512024 and denied again in February 2025.
1:14:55The headline never changed. Time,
1:14:57appeals, and hearings, but the door
1:14:59stayed shut.

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