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FBII-Fernando Bermudez Is Innocent! — Transcript

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0:00welcome to the crime redefined podcast
0:03produced by zeroc Cliff media coming to
0:06you from the US Bank Tower high above
0:09downtown Los Angeles in our podcast we
0:12drill deep into forensics and criminal
0:15investigation from the Viewpoint of the
0:17defense as well as explore the
0:19intersection of the media and the
0:21justice
0:21[Music]
0:22system I'm Dion Mitchell here with my
0:25co-host mayle anderia on this episode of
0:28crime redefine we have very excited to
0:30have the honor of speaking with Fernando
0:33Bermudez Fernando triumphed over a
0:35wrongful conviction that took 18 years
0:38of his life away when Fernando was 21
0:41back in 1991 he was arrested for a crime
0:44he did not commit an altercation in a
0:47Greenwich Village Nightclub between some
0:49Hispanic and black teenagers resulted in
0:5216-year-old Raymond blun being punched
0:54by efran Lopez Lopez then recruited his
0:57friend Luis Munoz akaa wulu to help him
1:01exact Revenge when Raymond BL emerged
1:03from the nightclub that night he was
1:05shot dead meanwhile Mr rudez was nowhere
1:09near the nightclub and had a seemingly
1:12airtight Alibi like so many of these
1:14horrifying cases a badly flawed
1:17eyewitness ID procedure sealed
1:19Fernando's fate this despite a video
1:22existing of Efron Lopez identifying wulu
1:25as the shooter to the police after the
1:28trial the eyewitnesses rec handed their
1:30ID and stated that they were pressured
1:32by police to identify Bermudez however
1:36Fernando Bermudez had to Lodge 11
1:39appeals before finally being found
1:41actually innocent in
1:432009 after a hard-fought battle lasting
1:46years after this finding of actual
1:48innocence Fernando prevailed on lawsuits
1:50against the city and state of New York
1:52and finally was provided the needed
1:55compensation for him to attempt to
1:56rebuild his broken life well that's the
1:59backr you need to fully appreciate the
2:01harrowing story that we are now going to
2:03hear firsthand from a very courageous
2:06and inspiring
2:08man Fernando it's an honor to speak with
2:11you today we're so excited to have you
2:13your story is really amazing and and
2:15thank you so much for coming on crime
2:17redefined to share it with us thank you
2:19I'm happy to be here well I want to take
2:22you back to August of 1991 before the
2:26nightmare began so give us a picture of
2:30what your life was like and kind of what
2:32your hopes and dreams were at that time
2:35before you were
2:37arrested yes on August 6th 1991 I was a
2:41very happy fellow in fact because I was
2:43slated to begin college that September
2:46of 1991 I was going to enter the medical
2:48profession I wanted to make a difference
2:50I wanted to atone for past mistakes I
2:53just wanted to make my parents proud and
2:55I wanted employment stability and so I
2:57envisioned a career in in in medicine
3:02and I was set to en roll when suddenly
3:05while enjoying the night out with my
3:06friends my three friends who were with
3:08me in in my father's uh newly salvaged
3:10purchased car
3:12we uh were just driving around enjoying
3:15ourselves but two days later I'm
3:18arrested for a crime I didn't commit I
3:20had no knowledge of it I didn't even
3:21know why I was being
3:22arrested so I'm gonna I'm gonna stop you
3:25there just because um we were going to
3:26hit you on that next so on the night
3:29that Raymond Blount was murdered you're
3:31saying you were with some friends in in
3:33a car that your father just bought you
3:35mhm yes yes then so now take us now so
3:39now you get arrested take us through
3:41that day and talk about the arrest and
3:43the booking and and how you were treated
3:45and what you were feeling right well I I
3:51was uh two days later with my with my
3:53brother we were two female companions
3:55and we we drove him front of my parents
3:58home this is from Manhattan Washington
4:01Heights and we drove there and all of a
4:04sudden cops descended on US with guns
4:06drawn and and they placed guns all over
4:09the car and they told everybody to get
4:11out and we were just shocked we were
4:13just shocked we thought it was like a
4:15carjacking actually or some or something
4:17because they didn't identify themselves
4:19immediately and so we got out the car
4:21and then next thing I know I'm taken
4:23away my mother is uh screaming crying
4:26from the second floor story where we all
4:29lived with with my three other uh
4:31siblings and my father as well and we
4:34would just I was just stunned I was
4:36taken away and I would never see my my
4:39old home uh until many many years later
4:4218 years later but before that I was
4:45brought to the precinct and I was
4:48interrogated for 10 hours and I told him
4:52forwards backwards sideways everything I
4:55knew about the night of August 3rd and
4:564th in which there was an individual
4:58Raymond blown who had gotten shot and or
5:01after an altercation Spilled Out from a
5:03nightclub um incident and it spilled out
5:05into the streets and so I was in the
5:08precinct and then hours into the
5:10interrogation they dropped the bomb on
5:12me and said that I was being charged
5:14with murder uh and this is after I told
5:16them my whereabouts what I was wearing
5:18who I was with that I had never been at
5:20sign no
5:21nightclub and I was just stunned I was
5:24just stunned I felt I I really I really
5:26thought that it would be as simple as
5:28telling the pr and police where I had
5:31been what I had done and everything it
5:33would be that simple but it got much
5:35more complicated than that who were you
5:36with who were you with Fernando I was
5:39with my friend Leonard macaloo who was a
5:40childhood friend of mine I was with
5:42another guy named ukes and another guy
5:45named Ricardo so we were all just
5:47driving around
5:48enjoying it was a great night for us
5:51actually so I should ask you Fernando um
5:54how old were you at this
5:56time I was 22 at Point
6:02yeah you know um okay so you're with I'm
6:06I'm assuming that your your friends all
6:07stood up for you and said that you were
6:09with them tell us how the eyewitness
6:11identification of you came about and
6:14then what went wrong during that
6:17process sure well I was after a while I
6:21told him I said after a few hours not
6:24only say I not only did I say I was
6:25hungry because I really was but more
6:27than that I was in shock and I said man
6:29I speak to my mother and they said no
6:30you if you participate in a lineup then
6:33you could talk to your mother I said
6:34okay I thought I had nothing nothing to
6:37fear because I just felt again if I tell
6:39the truth and I comply everything will
6:40be simple I'll be able to go home and
6:41get my food everything that your parents
6:43tell you to do right you know tell the
6:44truth be straight be honest and you
6:46thought you okay sh yeah absolutely I
6:48really believe that and it's
6:50particularly you know in my private
6:51school upbringing where you know we
6:53pledge the leion the flag every day
6:55before class started and all this was
6:57ingrained in me that the American system
6:59would work work uh but a after after
7:03that I I sat in a lineup uh and I was I
7:07was a little shocked because I I always
7:09envisioned that lineups were things that
7:11people stood up and held held cards or
7:13numbers and walked in the room or stuff
7:15but it wasn't like that I sat down with
7:18other police officers who who were next
7:20to me in plain clothes I knew there were
7:22police officers I could tell their
7:24chains they had the bull bearing chains
7:26with the with the um police Shields
7:28underneath their shirts but you could
7:30see it but I didn't think much of that I
7:31just say hey just sit down I didn't
7:33think at that time that because I was 62
7:36220 that would be a huge
7:38discrepancy and so later I I I go back
7:43into the interrogation room and the
7:44prosecutor says that people picked me
7:46out the lineup and I was like what I
7:48said this is crazy this is a mistake and
7:50again I continue telling where I was and
7:5310 hours would pass and because I
7:55wouldn't admit guilt or or confess or
7:57anything I was then uh sent to write
7:59Island was there any other evidence
8:01linking you to the shooting at that
8:02point no there was nothing at all just
8:05so just pure eyewitness accounts yes the
8:08so-called
8:10eyewitnesses well Fernando I mean to
8:12this day Riker's Island is a notorious
8:14hellhole how long were you there
8:17awaiting trial and just tell us some of
8:19the the miserable experiences you had
8:21while you were waiting for
8:22trial right right well Riker Island at
8:25that point I I entered Riker island in
8:28the summer of 19 1991 and it it had just
8:32been simmering after a riot there the
8:34year before so that kind of carried over
8:36into the tension of that summer because
8:39people were still talking about it and
8:41so uh I didn't have to see or feel it I
8:44didn't have to feel it I saw it for
8:46myself I should say and it was something
8:48where immediately I entered Rikers and I
8:50was afraid I'm not gonna lie I was a big
8:52dude but there was just a lot of things
8:54going on particularly in control over
8:57the phon so they had two phones and it
8:59was it was cut across across racial
9:01lines one group couldn't use the phone
9:03over the other and if you trespassed or
9:05even tried to use the phone without
9:06permission no matter what group You' get
9:08beat up cut any number of things can
9:11happen so it was that type of situation
9:13of you know trying to re uh reach out
9:16and and touch someone you know your
9:18family member so you I took the letter
9:20writing and fortunately I was fortunate
9:22to get some phone time and things like
9:23that but it was it was it was definitely
9:26a continuous tension filled atmosphere
9:29were yeah there was some good people
9:30that I met but mostly people were just
9:33angry and frustrated and and because
9:36they hadn't even been sentence yet there
9:38was a lot of violence going on it was
9:40just the level of Despair there was was
9:43so
9:44thick so talk to us uh Fernando about
9:47some of the prosecutorial misconduct
9:50that was going on even before your trial
9:53and specifically with the regards to the
9:55issue of ephra Lopez and
9:57wulu yes well we were able to find out
10:00later after the trial uh but not before
10:04not even during uh because the pro
10:08prosecutor starting with him him James G
10:12Rodriguez from the Manhattan District
10:13Attorney's Office who knew better he was
10:14a a veteran already at this and yes he
10:17was uh dealing with his about third
10:20homicide case of that night he would
10:22later testify but that's no excuse to
10:24flout the law how did he flout the law
10:27well uh when epim Lopez came into
10:30contact with him he because what let me
10:34backtrack for a moment before the
10:36prosecutor it was the detective uh
10:38detective Daniel mazanova and that was
10:40his second homicide case incidentally
10:42his first homicide case of that
10:43Greenwich Village area would be
10:45overturned um and we were just months
10:47apart it was another Latino male who was
10:51um caught by them and then he was later
10:53proven innocent as well but during this
10:55time I was the next case months later
10:58and so this Pro this this detective he
11:01took uh a picture of of uh mugshot
11:06pictures and he showed it to this guy
11:07named eram Lopez who would be the state
11:09star witness he was 16y old who a sconed
11:12for work release program and he had told
11:16the police and prosecutor that this guy
11:18wulu or Lewis and all this would be
11:20around this West neighborhood uh 90s
11:23neighborhood and he was a drug dealer
11:24and so forth but they ignored all of
11:26that they ignored this in part because
11:29the first illegal thing that happened
11:31was that the witnesses uh four Teenage
11:34Witnesses and others were placed in the
11:35room and were allowed to share pictures
11:37together so one young lady picked out my
11:39picture and and she said I look cute or
11:42whatever and for then on she shared it
11:44with the other Witnesses so then they
11:46all say yeah it's probably him or
11:47whatever and they all agreed on that and
11:50they took my picture after that after
11:51that conf after that illegal
11:53identification procedure and they showed
11:55it to Lopez about a day later and Lopez
11:58says you could see the look on Lopez's
12:00face in the video he's like dumbfounded
12:02like I told you everything of who this
12:04person was but then when they showed him
12:06isn't this him isn't this him you can
12:08see his look like huh but he knew Street
12:11Savvy as he was that to get himself out
12:13of accessory to murder charges he he
12:16would pick me uh at the behest of the
12:18detectives and that's what he did so now
12:21after this is done the prosecutor tells
12:24him okay now you're going to testify and
12:27he threatened him with accessory to
12:28murder charges if he didn't tell the
12:30truth so based upon the story the lie
12:32that he already started telling he went
12:34with that and that then my fate was
12:36sealed yeah I was just going to say that
12:38the fix was in and you weren't going
12:39anywhere for a very very long time
12:41that's right right tell me about the uh
12:43the the uh the jury selection so when
12:45the when the when the jur elction was
12:47set for your trial what was the ratio
12:49makeup of the panel do you remember
12:51right yes I do yes I do you had you had
12:54a you had a quite let me see you had
13:00about maybe six white jurors you had an
13:04Asian I think and then you had you had
13:06about three blacks and then you had
13:08about two Latinos but those Latinos were
13:11immediately disqualified throughout like
13:13I wasn't the prosecutor used this
13:15preemptive rights all right to be able
13:17to knock off the the Latino jurors and I
13:20was like what's going on here and so at
13:22the end I ended up with no Latino jurors
13:24he struck them all you must you must
13:27just feel like just every day they're
13:29just it's just another chip that they're
13:31they're kind of taking away the
13:32foundation of you actually having a fair
13:34trial in this
13:35right yeah and at that time I didn't
13:38know it was it would be a potential
13:40violation of the law if if taken to to
13:43to the extreme under Batson versus
13:45Kentucky that's a violation of the
13:46Constitution but it just felt weird it
13:50felt like wait a minute why am I not and
13:52then a Latino jur would later he was
13:54waiting like he wanted to hear this case
13:56he would tell my father later he was
13:57waiting for for my dad to come out he
13:59says you know I want I really wanted to
14:01see this case you know like he told my
14:04dad and I was like man me and my dad
14:06would always talk about that what if
14:07that juror had stayed you know what had
14:09he blocked the lies that were unraveling
14:11I don't know you know it must have felt
14:13like as you're describing this and I'm
14:15listening it's just really an amazing
14:16story it must have felt a little bit
14:18like a a Twilight Zone episode is this
14:20really happening am I awake or is this a
14:22is a
14:24nightmare yeah yeah it really was
14:26especially when I hit Rikers and I had
14:28to endure all that type of stuff going
14:30on there the bus rides the brutality you
14:33know uh people locked up versus each
14:36other the cosos against the people
14:38locked up it was it was you know it was
14:41barbaric at times to see people stabbed
14:44with so I can't I can't imagine I I just
14:46I
14:48canot it does something to you it does
14:50something to your spirit to see someone
14:51hurt that way what was the just tell me
14:54about the relationships between the
14:56black and the Latino communities up in
14:57in Manhattan at that time
15:01well in Manhattan I could tell you
15:02Manhattan it was one where you know you
15:04have Harlem and then you have Harlem
15:06where the majority of people there at
15:08that time were were of color and so
15:10forth but then you have Washington
15:12Heights where it starts turning
15:13Dominican and Latino uh of you know it
15:16could be Puerto Rican it could be but
15:18mostly once you hit Washington Heights
15:20we're talking a great connection of of
15:22Dominican or Latino uh people there and
15:26so through this people know each other
15:29from the streets I mean people were drug
15:30dealers moving around in cars people it
15:33was a a common thing for people to know
15:35each other what by the car that they
15:36drove oh homie drives this car he drives
15:38that car you know that's how it was in
15:40prison like I learned that's how people
15:42were talking like yo he drives he drove
15:43this he like you try to identify so
15:45people knew each other however there was
15:48still that racial barrier that that to
15:50an extent existed but that grew worse
15:52inside prison because now despite no
15:55alliances on the street you know people
15:58whatever how ever they knew each other
15:59through interracial relationships who
16:02whatever now in prison it changed it
16:03might have helped but it complicated it
16:06because that phone was one for the
16:07Latinos and one for the
16:10black you know when you were in jail
16:13during the trial being transported back
16:16and forth to the courtroom every day
16:18what was the routine like and what did
16:20you have to endure before you even went
16:22to court and went through all that you
16:24know draining mental activity of court I
16:26mean what were some of the sights and
16:27smells you know that you had to endure
16:30sure well you know when you're in Rikers
16:33for example that's where I I did the
16:35majority of my court trips too uh you
16:38you wake you get woken up very early
16:40usually with a flashlight in your face
16:42and then you're told to wake up the guy
16:44has your card he's telling you got to go
16:45to court sometimes you don't even know
16:47you got to go to court but but usually
16:49you know you got to go to court and so
16:50you get a little bag then you're ushered
16:52with the group of Court people that are
16:54going into a bullpen well first you go
16:56to the mess hole and you eat in a in a
16:59crowded loud mess hle um where the cops
17:03are are are are hitting the the the
17:05metal railings and it creates a tuning
17:07tuning fork effect you know like
17:11the you know and it's like wow because I
17:14guess people are making too much noise
17:16that's the way of calming everybody down
17:17shut up like that and so now you get
17:20you're herded into a crowded Bullpen and
17:22that's what called Bullpen therapy it's
17:24almost like that a throwback to that
17:27time in the Inquisition where would put
17:29you in a in a in a sort of room and make
17:32you confess and you know but in this
17:34case people confessed because they were
17:36so tired of or they would take plea
17:38Bargains I just say you know uh because
17:41they wanted to get out of prison that's
17:42how bad those breaking you down breaking
17:43you down breaking you down breaking you
17:45down because not only after that long
17:46Bullpen therapy where there's fights
17:48there's just crowdedness there's a
17:49standing room only then you put on a bus
17:52shackle with a with someone else so now
17:54you shackle into the bus and then you go
17:56to once you get to the the courtrooms
17:59then you're put in a Detention Center
18:01like not a detention in a holding pen
18:03where the same thing has happening
18:04you're waiting for your court now to see
18:06the judge and then you gotta wait to go
18:08back so if you miss your bus you can
18:10come back at midnight you know all tired
18:13smelly so you you you're coming back
18:16with even a smell on you that in my
18:18opinion is one of sweat fear anxiety you
18:22know just an
18:25unsavory collection of just people some
18:27who don't even care about bathing so
18:28you're all in there and so it's just a
18:32bad smell I mean one of fear you you
18:35could smell fear
18:38sometimes Fernando when you finally got
18:40to the courtroom during your trial were
18:42you able to wear a suit or did you have
18:44to wear the the prison
18:46uniform I when when it came to my trial
18:49I was then allowed to receive a suit and
18:52some nice clothing for for my
18:55appearances and I would you know I would
18:56get it at Riker's Island and I would
18:58wear it
18:59too uh through the woan and all that
19:02stuff like that on the bus and so yeah
19:05it would be like a moment where I would
19:06feel a little bit a little normal for a
19:08bit yeah a little bit normal because you
19:11know in the prison visits you had to
19:12wear these great jumpsuits and things
19:13like that and that would mean a lot to
19:15me because later on in upstate prison
19:18you would just wear mostly green
19:21clothing when I ask you I want to frame
19:23this for you a little bit and so we can
19:25you can really for our listeners set
19:26this up for us I want to know your
19:28thoughts thoughts and emotions during
19:30that awful window of time from when you
19:32learn a verdict had been reached and the
19:35time it's read aloud in
19:38court yes well for me it was a palpable
19:42uh
19:43unmistakable level of tension that to me
19:47was like almost like water dripping out
19:49of a faucet and it sounding louder than
19:53it should you know time just dripping
19:56that way the clock almost as if it's
19:57chained and you're just waiting you're
20:00waiting for the decision that you know
20:02is going to change your life for better
20:03or worse because that's what that's what
20:05it had been up until that point after
20:07over a year of Rikers um I mean my trial
20:10began actually in six months because I
20:12wanted to get out of it so bad that I
20:13told hey give me a speedy trial it's my
20:15constitutional right you know I didn't
20:17know that then but my lawyer said you
20:19know you want speed I said yeah I want a
20:21speedy trial I'm telling the truth so
20:22there should be no I want Speedy Justice
20:25well it didn't turn out that way uh I
20:27would end up at right for over a
20:30year and then I would uh well let me
20:34rephrase the question cuz I yeah so yeah
20:36during that yeah in terms of for the
20:37verdict and so when I got the verdict
20:40you know it was it was a very like you
20:43get into the room you you walk and
20:44you're under control this is not like
20:46you can just Gant in there no you you're
20:48control you're in handcuffs and then you
20:51sit down they make you sit down and then
20:53you wait and then they and then they
20:55reveal that you know we we the jury the
20:59state of New York find you guilty I mean
21:01that thing reverberated throughout my
21:03psyche my very being particularly uh I
21:06was in shock but what the the pain that
21:10was real for me undeniable was seeing my
21:13family crying you know falling on the
21:15floor in the courtroom and the gavel
21:17pounding furiously and the judge yelling
21:20to my to my family and all the audience
21:23there to calm down that as if this
21:25doesn't mean anything you know or we're
21:28supposed to compose ourselves even
21:30though we knew that as the trial
21:32unraveled because as it did unravel we
21:34were seeing this guy from Lopez was
21:35clearly lying because he was naming me
21:38someone I wasn't and I was like yo this
21:40guy is like I'm not even this person I
21:42don't even live in this neighborhood
21:43where where he's saying so you know what
21:45I mean it was that outrage that at the
21:47end you expect a better conclusion but
21:52you're you know you you're paralyzed
21:55with with a
21:57shock so I understand though Fernando
21:59that after the verdict hit you know
22:02there was a gap of time of course before
22:03the sentencing and wasn't there some Ray
22:06of Hope that emerged in terms of some
22:08new
22:10information yes there actually was
22:13because as a result
22:16of the uh the trial we were able to see
22:21the lies that eim Lopez told up until
22:24then we didn't know all these key leads
22:26because for example the prosecutor
22:29turned over boxes of of of material of
22:33evidence just days into my jury
22:35deliberation like once my jury
22:37deliberated then that's when he like
22:39turned it over wow like right before my
22:41trial actually began it was like Martin
22:43Luther King um holiday that right after
22:47that he turned it over and was like how
22:49can we review this you know it was weird
22:51but the point is is that um the the
22:55prosecutor he could have he could have
22:57uh helped me with this by sharing it
22:59with the defense early on and he didn't
23:01do that you know but what was I think I
23:04lost you on the question I'm sorry yeah
23:06no you hit it exactly so I was just
23:07wondering like it it sounded like um
23:10after the the verdict you know that you
23:12learned some stuff that maybe should
23:13come before the court before you're
23:15actually
23:16sentenced got it okay so right so then
23:19that's what happened so as a result of
23:20turning us investigating the the boxes
23:23of evidence the redacted videotape
23:25because it was a videotape where eram
23:27Lopez is is talking and he's telling the
23:29police and prosecutor he lives in this
23:30area but then it's blocked um he goes by
23:33the name of and in some instances is
23:36blocked I we like what and then we got
23:38the other redact now he's saying his
23:40name is wulu his name is Lewis why was
23:43this stuff redacted out of out of the
23:45version that the jury saw so based on
23:47this and the testimony that emerged from
23:51uh E from Lopez and other witnesses as
23:53well we were able to then begin an
23:55investigation into the West 90s
23:57neighborhood of former homicide
23:59detective who already had been working
24:00on my case uh named Mike Gainer he
24:03started working on my case pro bono and
24:05then he got an attorney and then they
24:06started investigating it all these
24:08Witnesses were yearning to tell the
24:10truth early on they said they were
24:11pressured coerced threatened some had
24:14made deals uh with the prosecutor that
24:17in exchange for their testimony their
24:19own charges would be dropped and we
24:20found the paperwork on this we were like
24:22whoa this happened December 19th right
24:24before the trial that these part changes
24:26were dropped you know we found all this
24:28too late and they just try to cover it
24:30up so good it was it was so difficult it
24:33sounds like if any one of those would
24:34have come to light of the trial you
24:35would have walked that
24:36day well yeah it would have helped cast
24:39out on the eyewitnesses right a
24:42testimony because these were all
24:43teenagers but again they had criminal
24:45records that were dropped eam Lopez in
24:47particular as you know he had accessory
24:49murder charges he would have told baby
24:50on his mother if if it meant getting
24:52outs I hope he wouldn't but maybe you
24:55know and so you know he certainly was a
24:58Pinocchio in court the more lies he told
25:00I could almost touch his nose as he
25:02testified I mean I could almost ticket
25:04it I pull it off if I could I got to
25:06tell you I'm so impressed of how you
25:07handled this because uh I don't know if
25:09I would have lasted a second to be
25:11honest with you well that's well sir
25:13that's what my father say said man I
25:15would have been my father had a few
25:16outbursts in the court and he said I
25:19said I didn't want to mess up my my
25:21proceedings man you know I'm dealing
25:22with you're trying not you're trying to
25:24walk on
25:25eggshells dad
25:28yeah and that will be tested later as
25:31I'll tell you later as to how eventually
25:33I ended up in the federal court
25:35proceedings 10 years later actually on
25:38on on the my daughter's first birthday
25:40we went to federal court and they
25:42mistakenly put me in a bullpen with efim
25:44Lopez I don't know how that happened but
25:46after yeah yeah I couldn't believe it
25:48this was like it was like a sign are you
25:50gonna mess up your case or not and they
25:53put me after he testified in in court
25:56and you know told the truth why l he
25:58lied and all that and I had a moment to
26:01to beat him up right there and I didn't
26:03I just I'm not going to mess up my
26:04proceeding we got another round to go
26:06this afternoon you know what I mean yeah
26:08no I I agree it seems like at every turn
26:10they're just trying to you know those
26:13cinder blocks around your feet bigger
26:14and bigger when they already had it I
26:16mean it was that's the definition of a
26:17fixed game I don't know what is yeah
26:20yeah okay so you your sentence they
26:22they've read the verdict and you touched
26:24on a couple of these um earlier but I
26:26I'd love know if there's any other some
26:28of the horrors that you endured at sing
26:30sing and then how did you cope with them
26:32right well singing will come much later
26:34you know Rikers Rikers was was my my
26:37city jail detention where then
26:39eventually I would go upstate Amara
26:41Southport
26:43Sullivan uh shaan Gunk you
26:46know and then and then sing Singh sing
26:48Singh was the place I was eventually
26:50released from but like to just to
26:52quickly ask your question we thought
26:54that the evidence that we were gathering
26:56through the investigation would stop the
26:57verdict
26:58or the sentencing I should see not the
27:00verdict the verdict already came but it
27:02didn't the judge didn't want to test it
27:03he didn't want to hear anymore because
27:04it was coming in peace meal through the
27:07investigation that that the lawyers were
27:09conducting and then I got sentenced
27:11again now I go up state My Life Begins
27:14one of of learning the law trying to get
27:16out of there and filing appeal after
27:18appeal until it ended up with my 11th at
27:21Sing Sing where finally I was
27:24exonerated I want to switch to something
27:26so basically kind of working getting you
27:28know engrossed and working on your own
27:30case that was helped you kind of cope
27:32with your surroundings but I want to get
27:33on a couple of positive things tell me
27:35how you met your
27:36wife oh yes well my wife who just
27:41celebrated her birthday yesterday and
27:43we're in the quaran primary Define to
27:45her thank you sir thank you team I
27:47appreciate that we cre her uh we we had
27:50her birthday yesterday in quarantine and
27:52I met my wife early on early on in my
27:55prison experience she found me she
27:57invested my case after seeing it on TV
28:00she had a big burden over my seeing my
28:02father on The Crusade and then uh she
28:06was touched by the case and she started
28:09researching it was working for the phone
28:11company at the time and finally found me
28:13um after so many tries as we connected
28:15she wrote me a letter we quoted and we
28:18got married we started having children
28:20in prison through conjugal visits wow
28:23that's that's that's an amazing story
28:24did she help you I understand that you
28:26get into fashion which is crazy while
28:28you're in prison those two things
28:30usually don't go together so you get
28:32into but this is America so you get into
28:34fashion business tell me how you you got
28:36that clothing started uh clothing
28:38company started and then did she work
28:40with you you
28:42inside absolutely I mean I you know I
28:45had studied business in prison I I was
28:47always trying to study personal finance
28:50and I always because I was earning 38
28:52cents an hour so for me I would try to
28:53stretch that money I would save it I
28:55would starve myself to save that money
28:57by sneaking food out the prison kitchen
28:59where I worked you know and sometimes
29:01with a wink the officers would give me
29:03extra food to take home and that would
29:05save me money and and so um I saw I said
29:08what can I do so I start I took the
29:10money I gave it to my wife and I said
29:12listen go buy clothes
29:14wholesale wherever you can find them and
29:17I'll retail them in here in prison
29:19because there was a a big demand for
29:20clothing the catalogs had too many
29:22restrictions they would send the wrong
29:24sizes it was just a lot of complications
29:27with guys getting the right side in in
29:28colors and Varity and I started filling
29:30that Niche and so my wife would come and
29:33drop off the the clothing and prison
29:36visits and so with my mother and so and
29:39I would get all these clothing and I
29:40would just sell them and I would borrow
29:41them for cigarettes even though I didn't
29:44smoke a detergent stamps
29:47Cosmetics soap toothpaste and I would
29:49send it to my wife and lump some and
29:51then she would use that not only to
29:52offset her economy you know throughout
29:55the troubl times of us trying to survive
29:57as a family but also it would it would
30:00help her pay off some bills CU she would
30:02liquidate packs of cigarettes and stuff
30:04like that and that helped you know every
30:06little bit helped because it was
30:07difficult really by virtue of my
30:10wrongful conviction we became a
30:13dysfunctional family not only with my
30:14parents on that end but also uh now the
30:18over
30:191.5 million I think households without
30:23two parents in them in America you know
30:26and that forced to live that experience
30:29she was a single mother in one sense
30:31without my
30:33help Fernando when you were in state
30:35prison I'm curious about this um we know
30:38some of the horrors about the other
30:40inmates and how they behave but what
30:42about the guards themselves what kind of
30:45abuse and Corruption did you witness by
30:47the actual prison prison
30:50guards yes well I'm sad to say that you
30:54know you would think that under some
30:56condition of of already being punished
30:59and incarcerated that that would be
31:01enough but unfortunately there's other
31:02layers and on one end there's the layer
31:05of people being frustrated and angry and
31:08and combustable while in prison by
31:10virtue of in some cases their crime or
31:12their their attitude but another
31:14instances there's also just the aspect
31:16of trying to survive so the correctional
31:18officers have the responsibility of of
31:21of three CES care custody and control
31:26they fail in all this when they in
31:28abusing uh you know people who are
31:31incarcerated and it could be just
31:32something as simple as because you
31:34didn't get your rights met the the
31:37adequate medical attention that you
31:38start filing either a lawsuit or a
31:41complaint or the officer purposely does
31:44not do something for you when it's it's
31:46under his purview to do it and so you
31:48file a complaint against him there
31:49Begins the retaliation so you're walking
31:52one day in one instance a report writer
31:56he may be right walking all a sudden
31:58he's put against the wall and so the
32:00officers start you know uh Pat frisking
32:03him a bit more aggressively than what is
32:05a called the normal Pat Frisk and so
32:08they might do the credit card swipe
32:09which is which is when they will put
32:13their that if if you figure your hand
32:16like a karate chop chopping boards well
32:18that hand they'll put it and they'll put
32:19it up your butt like it's a swiping a
32:21credit card now that would offend some
32:23people quite frankly and when they turn
32:25around to complain that's when they get
32:27beat up so seen that you know I've seen
32:31I've seen it from both sides as well you
32:32know quite interestingly but more more
32:36so with the correctional officers
32:39sometimes jumping people I saw one
32:41instance that troubled me I'll tell you
32:43a quick story I saw one instance where
32:45there was a correctional officer who I
32:47knew I was kind of cool with him because
32:48he worked in the prison kitchen and so
32:50you know he let me bring out food and
32:52stuff like that and I appreciate that
32:53but on the other hand he one day had a
32:56an argument with a with a with a black
32:57inmate and the black inmate uh him him
33:00got into so because the correction
33:01officer says he's a boxer they said I'll
33:03give you a fair one I'll give you a fair
33:05one you know and so the the the the
33:08prisoner got the better of him so then
33:12they they they Shackled they they they
33:15handcuffed the guy who had a fight with
33:17him on the fair one brought him to a
33:18undisclosed area and beat the crap out
33:21of him so you know there's all these
33:24type of abuses that happen I mean
33:25there's the planting of evidence meaning
33:27that if they want you out of a Cell
33:29Block they'll just throw a weapon in
33:31there you know and next thing you know
33:34they'll come search your cell and it's
33:36already in there like you may have been
33:38out in the record in the yard but they
33:40already slapped it in there and then
33:42when they'll come in you come in they'll
33:43come sell your search and oh what's this
33:45a weapon ah and now you know how much
33:47trouble you can get in for finding a
33:50weapon so these are abuses
33:53constitutional uh on all levels you know
33:56that I've seen it and it's sad but on
33:58the other hand they have been
34:00correctional officers who who who are
34:02standup people to the extent that
34:03they're not there to make it difficult
34:06for people personally in my case I I had
34:10some good favor because my the publicity
34:13of my case sometimes helped me or when
34:15they cell searched uh my my my cell they
34:19would find the kind of books I read and
34:21sometimes that would give me a break
34:22other times it was declared a fire
34:24hazard for having too many books and
34:25they would confiscate my books so it was
34:28a lot of things going on it's a very
34:30tense
34:31filled situation of living in prison
34:33where you you come to start feeling less
34:37than a person less than a man because
34:38you're under so much
34:40control so I'm gonna turn it back to the
34:43positive again and talk to us a little
34:46bit about this arduous appeals process
34:49and the role of Maryann debari and I
34:52understand you had like a little team
34:54called fbii
34:58wow you've been doing your research yeah
35:00definitely we don't leave anything
35:02unturned oh who you guys yes the
35:06Fernando Bermudez is innocent that's the
35:08acronym for fbii and it began it really
35:12began with Maryann the Barry yeah
35:14leading leading the Crusade early
35:17on uh after my father found her you know
35:21my father is first accredited with
35:23finding Maryanne because he was referred
35:25to her by a German judge who worked in
35:28the parking garage and so he always knew
35:30he always saw my father's sadness and
35:32hustle to try to find lawyers to help me
35:34and one day he recommended Maran de
35:36Barry so she got on my case in like late
35:3892 and never stopped never stopped even
35:42until even until she passed uh right
35:45when I got right when I bought my home
35:46in North Carolina she always was a
35:49spiritual mother she she tied my collar
35:53uh when I graduated college as a free
35:55man she was just my spiritual godmother
35:57who who wanted me to be a priest but
35:59also a lawyer you know I'm really
36:02impressed that it was such a team effort
36:04and that everybody stayed with you and
36:06you were able to bring other people onto
36:08the team that really believed in you yes
36:11that's good to hear I'm very I'm very
36:13grateful because the team grew Maryann
36:16the private investigator my parents my
36:19wife all the reporters who were early on
36:21from 1992 like Claude Sonic he always
36:24stayed on the case until it ended and
36:26you know all these different people and
36:29they just grew and grew and grew holding
36:30petitions protests rallies uh giving a
36:33tape sometimes to the Manhattan district
36:36attorney that had my evidence in their
36:39hands like waiting for them outside here
36:41take this tape this shows the latest
36:43news interview with Fernando help him I
36:46mean with people like that you know
36:48that's that's incredible before I ask my
36:50next question please tell me that you've
36:53trademark fbii and it's on your clothing
36:56line no doubt
36:59hey I gotta talk to the film guy who's
37:01the one who who created the organization
37:03by name I hope he did yeah yeah GNA be
37:08here somewhere I think right yes yes it
37:11is it is so here's my my uh question
37:14around the 2009 hearing you were offered
37:17an Alfred plea tell our audience what
37:19that is and why it was used yes an alha
37:22plea is one in which uh the defendant or
37:25person still under
37:28incarceration uh accepts the opportunity
37:32to to enter a plea of saying that you
37:36can still be convicted but that you're
37:39not saying that you're
37:41guilty uh or innocent you you you remain
37:45I mean it's one of a position of that
37:46you could still maintain you're Innocent
37:48but it's not recorded on the record so
37:50you voluntarily say that you believe
37:52that the state has enough evidence to
37:54still convict you uh and that you you
37:57know and and that and yeah you accept
37:59that and so your your conviction remains
38:01and then usually you get a chance to get
38:03out of
38:04prison and obviously you told them to
38:06take that plea and shove
38:07it that's right I told them where the
38:10sun don't shine that's right you gave
38:12them the credit card swipe yeah
38:17yeah so now over in 2009 you've got your
38:21eviden you're hearing it's it's sort of
38:22the big moment but I understand that you
38:24had to wait for a bunch of weeks for a
38:26decision from the judge um during that
38:29period of time where were you housed and
38:31what was that like for you and your
38:33family just awaiting that basically the
38:34final
38:36verdict right right well at that at that
38:38time I was incarcerated at sing sing so
38:40I was being shuttled back and forth to
38:42Rikers so it's it's so interesting
38:44because after so many years Rikers is
38:47still the same in so many ways it's just
38:48a whole new generation of of of trouble
38:51makers or Misfits or people who don't
38:53belong there I'll leave it at that and
38:56so um
38:58it was it was
39:00uh it was it was a matter of just
39:02adjusting to to the proceeding I mean
39:05let me file your question again please
39:07ask it because I got a little distracted
39:09oh yeah sure so I was just curious you
39:11know I understand that you have the
39:13hearing and you had to wait for that
39:15verdict was was it like a month or
39:17something I got it yes so right so now
39:19again I'm being I'm I'm being sent back
39:21and forth but the worst part of it was
39:24being stuck at downstate Correctional
39:26Facility so it's a Midway State Prison
39:29in between the the the Rikers and my
39:32main prison Upstate and there oh I was
39:36like starving I mean I'm talking
39:39about hungry hungry hungry I mean I was
39:41sneaking in bread in my pockets because
39:44you got very you got three meals a day
39:46you had to you had to walk out to get
39:48them uh and then you had a it was a
39:51small meal there was no food no
39:53commissary nothing so there was no
39:55sharing of food so it was very bad it
39:57was no change of clothing you know I had
40:00to wash myself in the in the cell it was
40:02just bad being there waiting to go back
40:05either to sing sing or Rikers it would
40:06be like my it would be like a limbo if
40:08you were a Purgatory I guess um you know
40:12so not only are you incarcerated they're
40:14not they're starving you to death as
40:16well yeah it was it was very bad you
40:18know so then the best part would be when
40:20I go to back to my sing sing and I would
40:23wait there because at least I would know
40:24a lot of people and I would have more
40:25food but then I would have to go to
40:27Rikers and then wait for the proceedings
40:29there as well because sometimes there'll
40:30be a postponement but yeah ultimately I
40:33had to wait a month going back and forth
40:35and it was like wow you know just stuck
40:39at stuck at down state for a while okay
40:42so I want to frame this next question
40:43for you uh Fernando yeah sure I want I
40:46GNA move on to something you know even
40:47more positive so okay I read you know we
40:50read as we're reading about your story
40:52and there's reading about it and there's
40:53obviously experience in this but I want
40:55to have you take our audience
40:58to some of the culture shock that you
41:00encountered when you were released um
41:03and if you don't mind can I tell us
41:04about your uh your encounter with some
41:06skinny jeans and then what you first
41:09experienced uh when you were were
41:10relased and and how that
41:12felt yeah well you know it felt
41:15wonderful because for so long I had worn
41:18the state green
41:20clothes and so I now I had the liberty
41:24of being free uh but yes I was in shock
41:28over just the dramatic changes just
41:30being in a car folks so weird floating
41:32by like that in society and seeing all
41:35the changes and yet when I got when I
41:38got to my parents home where we were
41:40celebrating they told me that um you
41:42needed some new clothes all the clothes
41:44I had were were not good and so they uh
41:48they threw me some pants on and they
41:50said you put these on and so I had
41:52trouble putting them on and it was like
41:56you know stepping into into the leotards
41:58it felt like and I told the guy I got a
42:01had a complex and I told the guy this
42:03these things don't fit right he go no
42:04that's a style dude I said they all on
42:06my butt man my Dominican butt sticking
42:08out you know and everybody was laughing
42:11at me think you gotta get with it and
42:13people walking around with things
42:14blinking in their ear like lights I said
42:17what's that people talking to themselves
42:19they said that's Bluetooth so I was just
42:22shocked the the technology had changed
42:25prior to me going to prison they had no
42:29internet or or computer technology
42:31laptops as such the cell phones were so
42:34big in comparison to the sizes I saw
42:36before me in
42:392009 so much had changed I was just
42:41shocked the buildings were no longer the
42:43same the way they were the people I saw
42:46who were little or or I didn't remember
42:49remembered me when they were little and
42:51so it was it was a big shock it was a
42:53big shock to me did the courts provide
42:55or the jails provide you with any
42:57resources for your re-entry into society
43:00I was I was given nothing at all I was
43:02just giv $40 go yeah good luck and there
43:05you go that's it that's
43:08it well and given that you were found
43:11actually innocent why then was it such a
43:14grueling process to get that financial
43:16compensation that you deserve to get
43:18your life back on
43:20track well it's just like you have to go
43:23through another trial again
43:25unfortunately you have to in some instan
43:27is reprove your innocence on the level
43:30that it substantiates a lawsuit or
43:32they're just going to battle you because
43:34they don't want to give the money and
43:36this even happens in states where they
43:37even have poultry compensation I and
43:40that's even worse but in my case New
43:43York they just fought me
43:45because I guess I was asking for too
43:47much in their View and so I fought them
43:50I fought him for seven years before I
43:52got my first
43:54settlement uh and it took a long time
43:56seven years is a long time when you're
43:57free and I I had no job I had to support
44:00myself by cold calling universities
44:03writing them you know with emails of
44:06people I didn't know asking for
44:08references thereafter if I made if I
44:09made a hit with a lecture University and
44:12also working with New York Innocence
44:14Project who gave me gigs early
44:16on so I I have a question so when you're
44:20found actually
44:22innocent theoretically the whole thing
44:25should fall off your record
44:28correct yes so if
44:31you once you're found uh uh actually
44:33innocent and you go to apply for a job I
44:36mean technically you shouldn't have to
44:37say that you were convicted and have a
44:40record but I'm assuming that it's not
44:41that
44:43easy well it it it that's true because
44:46you could say that you haven't been
44:48convicted of a crime but it could still
44:49be on your record unfortunately in some
44:51instances even if you're exaggerated
44:53sometimes the court proceeding does not
44:56catch up up with the state reflection of
45:00the disposition of your case right I
45:03think that's not a priority for them
45:05right that you go it's almost like they
45:07ain't gonna do it for you you gotta kind
45:08of go and do it yourself so I've heard
45:11of people having that trouble definitely
45:14even after being exonerated so so they
45:17they you're convicted of a crime that
45:20you did not commit then they they won't
45:22give you the compensation and then on
45:25top of that you can't get it removed
45:27from your your work record it's like
45:30they own the ball the bat and the
45:32field yeah there you go there you go
45:36that's right and no no psychological
45:38counseling I mean I started realizing
45:40that I was acting strange when I got out
45:42like I I lived in a controlled
45:43environment where it was very me it was
45:46very uncomfortable mentally and
45:47everything but at least when I was in
45:48that prison cell I had to deal with my
45:51own demons and all the fears and
45:53frustrations within that 6x9 foot cell
45:55limitation until the next I dealt with
45:57the public but in outside I'm free and
46:01now I could walk wherever I want in one
46:03sense but I didn't feel like I could I
46:05didn't feel like I had permission I
46:06didn't feel like I I could have money in
46:08my pocket you know or a credit card so
46:12any you know any number of things that
46:13people I think took for granted I still
46:15had trouble with adjusting even a shower
46:17I would go with my underwears and then
46:19wash them and then hang them up and then
46:21I made like a line across a room and
46:23they were all dripping and my wife what
46:25are you doing you know what is this
46:27these underwear hanging out on the line
46:30what you in prison still no that's
46:32probably I'm sure that probably took a
46:34while to to shake yeah yeah she told me
46:37we have a washing machine learn how to
46:39use it it did sound like it did sound
46:41like um you know your plans before this
46:45craziness started you know obviously to
46:47go to school and so on it sound like you
46:48were able to pick that up tell us about
46:50your impressive academic and other
46:52achievements post
46:53incarceration well everything for me
46:55began inside because the dreams that
46:58were deferred were just that deferred
47:01but I never stopped working on them
47:03until I can get out so early on I
47:06realized the power of Education I mean
47:08from 1992 on I never stopped reading or
47:11self-educating myself even through the
47:13formal college education that I got in
47:15prison through the virtue of a
47:17scholarship and so that helped me obtain
47:19an associates degree and then when I got
47:21out I got my bachelor's degree in
47:23Freedom and so I got my bachelor's I got
47:26straight days I was impressed by that to
47:28the extent that I was like wow look at
47:31this if I applied myself I could so I
47:34learned things about myself in other
47:36words uh because prior to that I was
47:38just really interested in in school for
47:40me was a dating field where I tried to
47:43get as many girls in my ZIP code and
47:45Beyond I didn't care about anything else
47:47that's the only subject I wanted to pass
47:49but to apply myself revealed a different
47:52purpose meaning and potential and so
47:54after that I never stopped after I got
47:56my bachelors and before I started
47:58lecturing not only in prison and
48:00teaching Latin American history and
48:01writing for the prison newspaper in
48:03prison but when I got out I started
48:06lecturing at universities again code
48:08calling places writing places I wrote
48:11the uh people in France I wrote them in
48:13I used a translation service and I
48:15translated my English to French and they
48:17accepted it and invited me to speak in
48:20Leon France at the law school I was like
48:22yes we we mer
48:27you
48:28know and so that's what I did and I you
48:30know I wrote some academic papers for
48:32the newsp for the um you know for
48:34newspaper articles always involved in
48:37lectures lobbying for to change the laws
48:40if you want to consider that academic as
48:42well and so I never stopped and it has
48:45culminated in me working finally to
48:49finish my book that's I think the the uh
48:52cream cre de la of my academic work once
48:55I finished that piece right there until
48:57I can move further into more ad
49:00Adventures hey Fernando I'm curious to
49:02hear about your interest in graffiti art
49:04and jiujitsu did I read that you
49:06actually trained BJJ in
49:09Brazil Yes Yes actually yes so okay well
49:14let's let's go let's go to graffiti for
49:16a moment let's let's tunnel back in time
49:18if you will to use a train analogy uh to
49:21describe what Hem Hem Hem Hemingway said
49:24in different terms on movable feet
49:27to me that was trains trains at 40 foot
49:31long uh each would be moving canvases
49:34and so I caught the graffiti bug early
49:38on because I was just fascinated at
49:39seeing so much rolling art and
49:41everything around me in my neighborhood
49:44and beyond that at 12 years old I
49:46started I started riding on walls and I
49:50wasn't good at at first but then I
49:51started getting a talent and I I got
49:54down with a a graffiti crew and we
49:56started riding throughout the entire
49:58five buroughs on subway trains walls uh
50:01rooftops anywhere we can get to and that
50:04was just an adventure in itself in that
50:06obviously we're not supposed to be
50:08riding in those places and that
50:10attracted the the Eye of authorities who
50:12would chase us uh who would arrest us at
50:15times the juveniles let us go to our
50:17parents and we would get into fights
50:19with other graffiti Vandal because if
50:21one one graffiti group uh went into
50:24another person's train yard that can
50:26caused trouble or if others were abusive
50:29trying to steal the spray cans that
50:30meant you had to fight or if people
50:33crossed you out out of
50:35jealousy or Envy um then that could
50:39cause uh a level of War where if you saw
50:42the person the most respectful thing to
50:43do instead of dueling it out like in in
50:45the cowboy times we us just thr it out
50:47with
50:49fists so that was my life until uh from
50:53about 82 about to 1987 where I said you
50:56know what I'm I'm 17 now time to stop I
51:00like girls more than graffiti and so I
51:02started I started
51:04bodybuilding and that became my next
51:06Obsession and then um the next the next
51:10level to your question beyond the
51:11graffiti was was what again oh Jiu-Jitsu
51:14and and training Brazil so now Jiu-Jitsu
51:17came as a result of later on when I
51:20finally moved to North Carolina in
51:222015 I we move my family in here moved
51:25uh with a two children and my other
51:28daughter was was moving was living with
51:30her husband elsewhere and I started
51:33doing a lot of planting but it wasn't
51:35enough I needed to do something one
51:37thing I always wanted to do I wanted to
51:39begin learning how to defend myself
51:41better it was something I felt that I
51:43was deprived of because of my
51:45incarceration and so one day I walked
51:47into into a Jiu-Jitsu with all these big
51:49dudes and different colored belts and
51:53got my ass my ass whipped a little bit
51:56and I realized that this was something I
51:58wanted to do not only to Humble me but
52:00also to teach me this amazing skill
52:02where even a little guy could have an
52:03advantage over a big guy so uh and I
52:06started I started trading it and I I did
52:08it for three over a little bit over
52:10three straight years in North Carolina
52:13with my son which is also why I began it
52:15I wanted to create a bonding experience
52:18with my son so not only he could defend
52:20himself but that we can journey together
52:24and so for my birthday uh uh I was still
52:27a white though at that point I wanted to
52:30take the mecca which was going to Brazil
52:33Brazil is the mecca of Jiu-Jitsu if you
52:36go there it's like getting like kned in
52:38one sense um especially if you go to the
52:40lineage of your school in America Soo or
52:44Rio Rio we went to Rio and this after
52:47the night of caraval picture that
52:52partying you know how that goes
52:54everybody just we I I I kept promise and
52:57we went and I trained on my birthday and
52:59we had a grp session in the hot in the
53:02hot Academy of that place and when I
53:04come back my professors were were so
53:06impressed they were like Wow you went
53:08all the way out there this is usually a
53:11a planned trip with the professor from
53:12over there I guess it's a moneymaking
53:14thing I I I short I I
53:18short yeah short circuit and went on my
53:20own because it's just what I wanted to
53:22do and I didn't know that there was a
53:24little you know people get a little cup
53:26back when you booked the airline and all
53:28this whatever anyway that's in my
53:29business uh and so it was great and
53:32listen it was the best thing I did it
53:34let it led me into a level of I learned
53:36how to play human chess I grew a level
53:39of confidence and and Physical
53:42Agility and training that serves me well
53:45to today still uh and and it's something
53:48that after the covid thing I had to stop
53:50I had to stop uh because now we have
53:52this restrictions on the gym we're still
53:55in phase two which means people can't
53:57even be in the same room and all that
54:00and it led me to an opportunity to
54:03discover myself in a lot of ways which I
54:05think I've spoken to you about yeah it's
54:07it's an amazing it's amazing sport I I
54:09think the word you you sold my word
54:11which was uh humble I remember the first
54:13time I walked in and and got my ass
54:15kicked and thrown all over the all over
54:17the gym by guys and it is very very
54:20humbling thinking that you're a young
54:21stud coming in there to do some battle
54:23and these guys didn't even break a sweat
54:25while they're tossing me
54:27well yeah because you know um you know I
54:29was a bodybuilder still at that time so
54:31I'm I'm a big dude but these dudes is
54:33not about musles it's about technique
54:35leverage it's about learning to exhaust
54:38your opponent they they an opponent can
54:40exhaust themselves if they don't know
54:41Jiu-Jitsu that's put it like that and
54:43then that's when the the person comes in
54:45hits you with that kud the gr ow tap
54:49well beyond the Jiu-Jitsu and some of
54:51the other uh philanthropic work you're
54:52doing what does your day-to-day look
54:54like what's uh what's you know just
54:56obviously I guess we need to reframe
54:58that because uh pre pandemic you know
55:01what does what does that look like or
55:02what did it look like pre- pandemic
55:04what's what do what fills up your day
55:06well good question gentlemen I it for me
55:08it was also a matter of homeschooling my
55:11son one of the main responsibilities
55:13which began every day at 10:30 uh for me
55:17with with my son was homeschooling him
55:20uh for several hours in the home so this
55:22happened for about two years throughout
55:24our Jiu-Jitsu journey together uh of
55:27over three years and so he had got
55:29attacked on the bus and so we had to
55:32pull him out to school and then we
55:33started homeschooling him until we
55:35finally got a tutor to help offset some
55:37of the burden because I there's other
55:39things and the other things I do
55:41throughout the day apart from the
55:42homeschooling requirement is just paying
55:44bills you know uh studying personal
55:48finance um working on the book you know
55:51reaching out networking what happened
55:54what happened is is that through
55:55Jiu-Jitsu I got I admit I had stopped my
55:58criminal justice work because it was so
56:00intense that it led me to not even want
56:03to do any more speaking or things like
56:05that because I was just so preoccupied
56:07with this surviving it learning and
56:09stuff but then afterward it gave me it
56:13gave me a Revival to to begin again so
56:15my day now apart from having studied and
56:19going training all that because it was
56:21training for three years it was you know
56:22training a lot now it's just a matter of
56:24taking care of the of of the outside
56:27planting a lot of different species of
56:29plants and flowers and all that stuff
56:31I'm always busy with that as a secondary
56:33workout and working out and that's what
56:36I do you know and and now and now I'm
56:38doing the real estate now well I I I
56:41think you're definitely making up for
56:42last time that's a quite a quite a plate
56:44I I I want to ask a question now dayto
56:46day what are some of the permanent
56:48emotional scars that you have to deal
56:49with like what's something that in the
56:51morning or during the course of the day
56:54that is still from Life on on the inside
56:56that you have to deal with every
56:58day if there are any well yeah no no
57:02there that definitely is I mean I always
57:04think about what happened every day a
57:06day does not go by without thinking
57:08about what happened and trying to
57:10reflect uh more with gratitude than
57:13anything else so that I could overcome
57:15any little feelings that over you know
57:18that sometimes pop up of of of taking
57:20things for granted even myself like hey
57:23man you're out why are you sad you know
57:25hey man you you uh you got a little
57:28money now so why you complaining you
57:30know things like that and so I try to
57:32tell I try to kick myself in the butt as
57:34well um so I I have PTSD I'm GNA tell
57:37you the truth I I wake up sometimes with
57:40a level of distress that only my wife
57:43can help me through scratching my back
57:45and you know other things and so you
57:48know I don't know if I'll ever be healed
57:50from this thing because I deal with that
57:522019 in particular was was a very very
57:55very difficult I tried to change my
57:58anti-depression medication I tried to uh
58:01do a number of things and I was just so
58:03so depressed because one of the biggest
58:05wounds that I have sir uh is that you
58:09know my family is still separated
58:12alienated not talking to each other
58:15because of the conflicts over my
58:16wrongful conviction whether it's about
58:18money whether it's about me not spending
58:20time with one group or the other and me
58:22being so devoted to my family here that
58:24it's caused a grudge so I deal with that
58:27I deal with that every day the
58:29separation of of me dealing with this
58:31tension between you know my my my wife
58:33and my family and things like that
58:35where's Carolina and they're still in
58:37New York yeah they're still in New York
58:40yeah and so I my father never even came
58:42to my house in five years that I've
58:44owned this home now I'm happy to say I
58:46own my home for five years and it's it's
58:48it's a paradise for me here uh I'm about
58:51to go planting right when I finish
58:53talking to
58:54you and I'm sad to say that because of
58:57all this mess my father has not visited
59:00my home or been a grandfather to his to
59:02his kids and nor has my mother so it's
59:04it's the scars that I carry because of
59:07the the resentments that happen because
59:10of this wrong for conviction and and the
59:11challenges that it still has for my
59:13family it's the saddest part of my whole
59:16exoneration well Fernando my friend you
59:18are a true inspiration and I think we
59:20need to let you go
59:23planting well yeah I mean yeah I'm I'm
59:26going to do it when I when I finish
59:28talking yes when I finish talking but
59:30but if this is the is is is the if the
59:32conversation is closing if it is if
59:35that's a hint I I will say that I will
59:38say that it's a pleasure definitely
59:40talking to you and and and the other
59:42gentlemen there I I hope that the public
59:45understands that losing one's freedom is
59:48such a tragedy having to endure this but
59:51I tell you what one thing I can say is
59:54that I'm fortunate to be alive because
59:56now today with so much police brutality
59:58and so much uncertainty you know with
1:00:00what's happening in the world that some
1:00:02people based on police brutality and I'm
1:00:05a victim too based on what happened to
1:00:07me don't live to even tell the story or
1:00:09become an actual individual Agent of
1:00:12Change I survived and can tell my story
1:00:16and so that's what I want to do I want
1:00:17to continue being an agent of change to
1:00:19continue developing ways to help
1:00:21Humanity to develop ways of making money
1:00:24using my brain in a way where I can help
1:00:27causes and do the right thing by
1:00:29creating a legacy that that will
1:00:31continue the Innocence movement even
1:00:33even when I'm gone well Fernando the
1:00:35pleasure was all ours keep up the
1:00:37awesome work and you know please keep us
1:00:39posted on all these wonderful things
1:00:40that you're doing to help the criminal
1:00:42justice system you have two fans uh I we
1:00:46think you're a hero you have two fans
1:00:47here in Los Angeles and it was an
1:00:49amazing story and I thank you we really
1:00:52appreciate your honesty and sharing it
1:00:54with us and I think our our list are
1:00:56going to go crazy and really enjoy this
1:00:57we really appreciate your time today you
1:00:59know you can't help but being a bit
1:01:01shook after hearing that shook is an
1:01:06understatement I'll grant you that you
1:01:08know as a matter of fact I've been
1:01:09watching this uh the show on Netflix the
1:01:11Innocence files and those cases are so
1:01:15disturbing that I can only watch one
1:01:17episode at a time and really Fernando's
1:01:19Cas is just like those cases I mean it
1:01:21is appalling how easily someone can be
1:01:24swept into the system
1:01:26have their life destroyed not just by
1:01:28one bad actor in the system but by
1:01:30different Bad actors all throughout the
1:01:32chain of the justice system yeah I think
1:01:34that was the scary part is that all of
1:01:35the safeguards that are in place to
1:01:37prevent this kind of stuff all failed
1:01:39and I mean if the police and the
1:01:41prosecutor are both in cahoots to get a
1:01:43conviction at all costs what resource do
1:01:45you have I mean that's true there's
1:01:47instances where you could have the best
1:01:48attorney in the world but if the the
1:01:50deck is stacked that bad there's just
1:01:51nothing you can do that's right it's it
1:01:53is to it totally is a um David and
1:01:57Goliath scenario with the all the
1:01:59resources that the state has available
1:02:01to them and you know what also scary is
1:02:03that when all the New Evidence came to
1:02:05light it's appalling that it still took
1:02:0611 appeals for Fernando to Prevail man
1:02:10is it ever I mean how frustrating that
1:02:12someone can just one day lose their
1:02:14freedom with basically no evidence
1:02:16against them now think of this scenario
1:02:19what if you had a case where you had
1:02:21flimsy scientific evidence or maybe even
1:02:23downright false scient ific evidence if
1:02:27that's not properly vetted and defended
1:02:29against you've now got a situation where
1:02:31this kind of case would have an even
1:02:33higher probability of a conviction than
1:02:35Fernando's where there wasn't even one
1:02:37shred of physical evidence I mean we've
1:02:40got a hell of a long way to go and
1:02:41Criminal Justice Reform yeah there's no
1:02:43doubt about that you know May and all
1:02:45the money in the world can't make
1:02:46Fernando whole again after that
1:02:48nightmare but he sure is bound in
1:02:49determined to now live his best life and
1:02:51help raise awareness so the other lives
1:02:53can be saved yeah that's an excellent
1:02:56point I mean the flip side of this
1:02:58tragedy is the incredible bravery and
1:03:02just Brazen Persistence of Fernando I
1:03:04mean it's off the charts and in his
1:03:06freedom he's just not surviving but it
1:03:09sounds like he's excelling as a husband
1:03:12as a father and as a change agent and
1:03:15educator in criminal justice I me I just
1:03:17wanted to add that how many couples
1:03:19where one member is incarcerated you
1:03:22know how often does the marriage survive
1:03:24decades after that I would think it's
1:03:26pretty rare yeah it's got to be probably
1:03:29less than 0 one of a percent that's
1:03:31something else that came through when
1:03:32when when we were interviewing him was
1:03:35uh his sincerity and his energy that was
1:03:38coming through I mean most P people
1:03:39would just go hide away somewhere and be
1:03:41beaten down by the process but he was
1:03:43really positive through through the
1:03:45interview with us and I thought that was
1:03:46really impressive yeah it's a testament
1:03:48to his strength because I mean he's
1:03:50plowing through I mean the guy has been
1:03:52scarred he's been through a lot he still
1:03:54got the PTSD but but he's staying
1:03:56positive and he's got a cause and he's
1:03:59you know really going after it and on
1:04:01that note and as a a really good example
1:04:04uh Fernando is about 75% through writing
1:04:06a book and a film is apparently in
1:04:08development to learn more about Fernando
1:04:11check out represent justice.org you can
1:04:13also find him on Twitter at Fernando
1:04:16bermude 6 on Instagram at Fernando
1:04:19Bermudez free and on Facebook at
1:04:21Fernando Bermudez Exon and professional
1:04:24speaker you know we really appreciate
1:04:27all of our listeners and social media
1:04:29followers and hope that you weigh in and
1:04:30tell us your thoughts on crime redefine
1:04:32all episodes are now available at crimer
1:04:35R define.com
1:04:38thank you for listening to the crime
1:04:41redefined podcast like us on Facebook
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1:04:47redefined please send us your comments
1:04:49and questions and join us for the next
1:04:51episode
1:04:53[Music]

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