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Fat Loss Scientist: It’s Easy To Lose Weight, But Here’s Why You WON’T Do It! | Dr Andy Galpin — Transcript

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0:00Everything you see in this table has a
0:01strong scientific evidence that it will
0:03help with sleep.
0:04>> So, we're going to dig into all of those
0:05in great detail.
0:06>> So, the first one is a really good one.
0:07Kiwis.
0:08>> Kiwis.
0:09>> Yeah. So, there's been good studies on
0:10them. So, if you have two to three kiwis
0:12before bed, you'll see people sleeping
0:13better. Next on our list is [music]
0:15sleep divorce. People generally don't
0:17sleep as well when you're in the same
0:19bed as others. Next, we want this.
0:21>> This is more evidence than the rest of
0:22these things combined, and it is
0:23effective. Another one to think about is
0:25sound. And
0:25>> it really matters sound when you sleep.
0:27>> Yeah. as much if not more [music] of any
0:28other factor. There's also screen usage,
0:31light, your pillow and wearables. But
0:33the other thing is we're spending more
0:34on sleep and sleep is getting worse. And
0:36for this last 20 years, I've been doing
0:38science coaching and education that
0:40enhances human performance. And I've
0:42been fortunate to work with the world's
0:43most elite athletes, entrepreneurs,
0:45leaders, and even 50% of athletes have a
0:48clinical sleep disorder. It gets worse.
0:5070 to 80% of people who have clinical
0:52sleep apnea will go undiagnosed. And for
0:55women, it's somewhere in the
0:56neighborhood of 90 to 95% and it is
0:58delletterious to your health because
1:00it's highly associated with long-term
1:02death risk, cognitive function, mood
1:04regulation, performance, recovery,
1:06metabolic health, and it happens for a
1:08bunch of different reasons and we can
1:09[music] go through them, but we look at
1:10the 8 billion person population. We need
1:12more people to pay attention to their
1:14health. And so I just want to get the
1:15best possible out of people. So this
1:17could be energy, could be metabolic, it
1:19could be cognitive function, could be
1:20muscle growth or fat loss. And so I want
1:22to give every person listening to this
1:24the opportunity to reach their goals and
1:25dreams.
1:26>> I'd love to go through all of those. And
1:27you have a 5 4321 method. What is that?
1:30>> Yeah, it's just a little thing I came up
1:31with that says, "All right, can we help
1:32people with fat loss?" So the first
1:34thing to think about [music] is
1:41this is super interesting to me. My team
1:43given me this report to show me how many
1:44of you that watch this show subscribe.
1:46And some of you have told us according
1:47to this that you are unsubscribed from
1:49the channel randomly. So, favor to ask
1:51all of you. Please could you check right
1:53now if you've hit the subscribe button
1:54if you are a regular viewer of this show
1:56and you like what we do here. We're
1:57approaching quite a significant landmark
1:59on this show in terms of a subscriber
2:00number. So, if there was one simple free
2:03thing that you could do to help us, my
2:05team, everyone here to keep this show
2:07free, to keep it improving year over
2:09year and week over week, it is just to
2:10hit that subscribe button and to double
2:12check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll
2:13ever ask of you, do we have a deal? If
2:15you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do.
2:17I'll make sure every single week, every
2:19single month, we fight harder and harder
2:21and harder and harder to bring you the
2:22guests and conversations that you want
2:23to hear. I've stayed true to that
2:25promise since the very beginning of the
2:26Dio and I will not let you down. Please
2:29help us. Really appreciate it. Let's get
2:31on with the show.
2:33[music]
2:36Dr. Andy Gin, before we started
2:38recording, you said you want to do
2:40scientific research, coaching for your
2:42clients, and you said education.
2:45You also kind of alluded to the fact
2:47that you were less interested in money
2:48and these kinds of things. So the
2:50question is why why do you do what you
2:52do and what is it you're doing and who
2:53are you doing it for?
2:54>> The most concise way I can say it is I
2:57want to give every person listening to
2:58this the opportunity to reach their
3:00goals and dreams. You want to look this
3:02way or not look this way and you want to
3:04perform this way. How can we get you
3:07there? I want to remove those barriers.
3:09And if you get there or don't get there,
3:11it was because of you. It was not
3:13because something was holding you back
3:14that was in your way.
3:15>> Mhm.
3:16>> And so that's why I get equally excited
3:18to work with the best linebacker in the
3:21NFL and some person who just wants to
3:24wake up and not be in back pain
3:25tomorrow.
3:26>> So tell me who you've worked with then.
3:27Who has been a client of yours?
3:29>> Yeah, I've been fortunate to work with
3:31the world's most elite athletes for 20
3:33years at this point. So this is your
3:35number one draft picks in every major
3:37sport. Hall of Famers, Sai young
3:39winners, MVPs, Olympic gold medalists in
3:41many sports, world champion fighters.
3:44We've worked with hemoplegics and
3:46paraplegic individuals. We've worked
3:49with, you know, the cliche executives,
3:52the mom and pops, the person dealing and
3:55struggling with parmenopause. Like,
3:56we've really done most of it.
3:58>> And what kinds of symptoms or goals do
4:00they come to you with?
4:02>> So, I'll go broad categories and
4:03specifics below that. broad categories
4:05we tend to say is either rebuild or
4:07upgrade.
4:08>> Mhm.
4:08>> Rebuild is there's something wrong,
4:11hurt, broken, damaged. I'm overweight. I
4:14can't fix it. I'm dying from sleep
4:16restriction. I have a clinical sleep
4:18disorder. I have some injury. I have
4:21some huge clear limitation that needs to
4:23be resolved. The second half is what we
4:26call upgrade. I don't have any of that.
4:28Feel pretty good, feel okay. Now, I just
4:30want to get the best possible out of my
4:32life. So, this could be energy. It could
4:34be metabolic. It could be cognitive
4:36function. Why I can accomplish that and
4:39our our folks I work with can is because
4:41I'm after the physiology.
4:43>> What's what does you mean by that
4:44physiology?
4:45>> It's your biomolelecular signature. Do
4:47you have a muscle imbalance that's
4:49creating neck pain that's making it hard
4:51to sleep and that's giving you a hard
4:53time regulating your emotions. It could
4:55be classic things like inflammation.
4:58everything that is inside of your body
5:00and both the way that it is running and
5:02expressing itself.
5:04>> And what are your credentials?
5:06>> So my PhD is in what's called human
5:08bioenergetics. I started my lab in 2011.
5:11>> Your lab?
5:12>> Mhm. So I'm an active scientist. I'm a
5:13professor. That's my real job for the
5:15most part. And so we conduct and
5:17disseminate research there that enhances
5:19human performance. And then I've started
5:21a number of companies and privately
5:23coach people. That's what I've been
5:25doing for over 20 years. We talked about
5:27the different personas and the types of
5:29problems they come to you with. If you
5:31had to, and this might be quite
5:32difficult, order them in terms of the
5:35frequency in which people come to you
5:37with these issues. What would that sort
5:39of top five be?
5:40>> I'll break them from our professional
5:43athletes and I'll probably spend more
5:44time on non-professional athletes.
5:45Assuming u most of your audience is
5:47probably not a professional.
5:48>> I won't take that.
5:48>> Pretty close.
5:49>> I won't take that, guys.
5:50>> 50/50. [laughter]
5:52We'll assume 5050. Yeah. Yeah. Great.
5:53The athletes typically come to us under
5:55two circumstances. Um, frequent injuries
5:58I'm getting or tanked energy, bad sleep.
6:01They they deal with the same human
6:02problems we deal with, right? The other
6:04one is what we'll just say is the
6:06upgrade, the optimizer. Feel great, feel
6:08young. I just want to get ahead of
6:09things and I want to catch things before
6:10they start. The general public is a
6:13similar breakdown because you have a lot
6:15of people who are like, I do feel pretty
6:16good. I'm great, but I don't want to
6:19play the game backwards. I don't want
6:21problems to come up and then I got to go
6:23scrambling and figure it out. So, let's
6:24collect baseline data now. Let's get
6:26ahead of things. Let's predict problems
6:28before they arise, but I've only got a
6:31few minutes a day,
6:32>> right? I'm not trying to like take over
6:34my whole life with all this stuff. Like,
6:36probably the most common ones are things
6:37like sleep and energy, performance
6:39goals, can't seem to get stronger, can't
6:42seem to lose that little bit of weight,
6:44maybe touch of brain fog, I don't feel
6:46as sharp. Well, I'd love to go through
6:48all of those. Sleep, energy,
6:50performance, strength, struggles,
6:51weight, but also I've got my blood test
6:54results here, which um Andy has taken a
6:58look at for me. It's not all good. Okay,
7:00so that's a pre-warning. It's not all
7:01good, but he's going to run me through
7:03my blood test results in this episode,
7:05tell me how I improve things. And there
7:06was a couple of deficiencies that I had
7:07that I had no idea that I had cuz I
7:10thought I was doing everything right,
7:11which have completely changed my
7:12supplement, um but also my behavior
7:15generally. And also you've got this here
7:18which is a gentleman I believe whose
7:21blood test results you did similar age
7:23to me and you took him from not so good
7:27to great and we'll talk about that as
7:29well. So hold on for a second while we
7:31we touch first on the subject of um
7:33sleep and energy which is one of the
7:35first thing you talked about. A lot of
7:36people listening struggle with sleep and
7:38they also in their waking life feel
7:41variances in their energy. Um, if we
7:44start then with sleep, what are the like
7:47most people problems of sleep?
7:49>> This is a great question. We'll start
7:51off and in fact I think this is a nice
7:52framing of everything we're going to
7:53talk about. We want to be weary of what
7:56we call health anxiety.
7:57>> Mhm.
7:58>> This is overfixation, over concern,
8:01worrying too much about little things
8:03with your blood work, with your sleep,
8:06everything. You're in a really great
8:07spot. So, we can look for some upgrade,
8:09but we want to be careful of pushing
8:10that line. Why that also matters is if
8:13we look at the 8 billion or so person
8:16population, we probably need more people
8:18to pay attention to their health than to
8:20not pay attention to their health,
8:22right? We're not in an abundance of
8:23people caring too much. But if you're
8:25listening to this show, you are probably
8:27not representative of the general
8:29population. And so I want to be really
8:30careful of everything I'm about to say
8:31for the next couple of hours.
8:34I don't want to create health anxiety. I
8:35don't want you to be so terrified to
8:37touch a receipt that it sends you in a
8:39three-day tail spin.
8:41Anytime we're talking about a health or
8:42performance, we want to run the spectrum
8:44of disease to optimization. We should
8:48not be playing around with optimization
8:49performance if we're in the presence of
8:50a medical disease. And why I say that is
8:53sleep is probably the biggest place of
8:56clinical disease that exists that no one
8:59knows about.
9:01Somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 to
9:0380% of people who have clinical sleep
9:05apnea will go undiagnosed.
9:09>> Wow. If that existed for a broken bone,
9:13>> right? If that existed for diabetes,
9:15you'd be like insane. It gets worse. 50%
9:19depending on which study you look at of
9:22athletes have a clinical sleep disorder.
9:24For women, it's somewhere in the
9:26neighborhood of 90 to 95% of women that
9:29have clinical sleep apnea will go
9:32undiagnosed.
9:33>> Why?
9:34>> If you were to look at me and you would
9:36say, if I said, "Stephen, you think I
9:38have apnea?" He said, "No." Right? If I
9:41were to bring in a whole table of 10
9:42people and I said, "Pick the person in
9:44here least likely to have sleep apnnea."
9:47You'd find the smallest girl.
9:49>> True.
9:49>> You don't think about apnea as something
9:51that can happen unless you're big and
9:53fat.
9:55Women also are less likely than men to
9:59complain.
10:02They're less likely to think about it as
10:04an anatomical issue. They're going to
10:07charge it to hormones. to their
10:09menstrual cycle, to their cognitive
10:11load, to what it's the demands that it
10:13is to be mom. All these are true. By the
10:14way, it is also in the same point true.
10:17You could have apnea that has nothing to
10:19do with body composition.
10:21>> And let's define apnea for a second.
10:23>> You stop breathing at night
10:24>> and that wakes you up.
10:26>> Sometimes it doesn't. No,
10:27>> that's the that's the problem is it
10:29won't necessarily wake you up, but it is
10:31delterious to your health. It's highly
10:32associated with consequences from
10:35long-term death risk to short-term
10:38cognitive function, emotion, mood
10:40regulation, performance, recovery,
10:42metabolic health. It's really really
10:44nasty. In fact, one of the larger things
10:46uh that can go wrong in your health is
10:48is not breathing at night.
10:49>> This might be a silly question, but does
10:51sleep apnnea disrupt your sleep?
10:54>> It it can.
10:54>> So, it doesn't always.
10:55>> Doesn't always. Okay.
10:56>> And this is why do you think it's so
10:58poorly diagnosed? So the classic
11:01giveaways, if you were that person who
11:03wakes up four counties because you snore
11:05so loud, snoring doesn't necessarily
11:07mean you have sleep apnnea, but it's a
11:08really strong indicator. That's one form
11:10of it. So apnea happens for a bunch of
11:13different reasons. More evidence
11:15recently has suggested like neck size
11:17was this kind of original thing that we
11:19say like a big neck is just a problem.
11:22Doesn't look like that's as true, but
11:24certainly it is true. As you increase
11:28obesity rates, you'll see an increase in
11:31apnea as well. So, what's happening here
11:33is now you're talking about I'll call it
11:35anatomical or physical like something
11:37physically is landing on your neck and
11:39your tongue and your throat, your larynx
11:41and esophagus and it's stopping your
11:43breathing. And why this matters is when
11:45you're standing here or sitting here in
11:46this chair, you're in this vertical
11:48position and as you go and lay down,
11:51anatomy shifts. You also have a lot of
11:54research showing that the larger the
11:56human being, the more fluid they have,
11:58which is pretty normal, right? So, a
12:00person who's twice your size will have
12:02twice the amount of water in their body
12:03that you do. Imagine if you had I mean,
12:05we'll take this beverage right here. Why
12:07do you have red wine? Well, anyways,
12:09we'll come back in [laughter] case you
12:10get thirsty.
12:12>> So, you see the water is sitting
12:13vertically, right?
12:14>> If I were to shift this cup
12:16horizontally, the water would shift and
12:17it would it would balance horizontally
12:19to where the gap in the air would be on
12:21the top, right? That happens in your
12:23body. So imagine this top piece start up
12:25here. That's your neck. Now when you lay
12:29down, your neck is over here. And I
12:30would tip this over, but it would spill
12:32everywhere. That fluid then shifts up
12:34into your neck. So it's not even
12:36necessarily a physical size thing, but
12:37it's the fluid associated with being a
12:39larger human being that the fluid shift
12:41can happen.
12:41>> Mhm.
12:43>> What we're now finding is a whole series
12:45of other types of apnea. Now there are
12:47neural causes to it. There are
12:50environmental causes. um there are
12:52positional causes. And so as a classic
12:54example to round the story out,
12:57traditionally if you're told you have
12:59apnea, you're going to be given one of
13:00about three choices. Medication,
13:04what's called a CPAP device,
13:07>> right? So that's the big like Vader
13:09breathing machine
13:11or potentially what's called an oral
13:12appliance. It's a mouthpiece that kind
13:15of repositions your jaw and neck. I'm
13:17for all of those treatments. Why they
13:20all have such low success rates is
13:22because they're given out generically.
13:24You come in, you have apnea, you get the
13:26same stuff. Now, what the field is
13:28moving towards is precision and saying
13:31you have this specific type of apnea. An
13:33oral appliance won't help here. You
13:35actually need this
13:37surgical intervention.
13:38>> I was looking at some of the data here
13:39and it says that sleep apnea is very
13:42common globally, much more common than I
13:44expected. It says men who are
13:46middle-aged
13:47have a 24 to 34%
13:51prevalence of apnea.
13:53Women 9 to 17%.
13:57Uh seniors
13:59>> 30 to 60%.
14:01>> That's right.
14:01>> Post-menopausal women 25%. So yeah,
14:04rough numbers. That means that listening
14:06now, if you're a middle-aged man
14:08listening, if there's three of you
14:09listening right now, one of you
14:11statistically might have apnea. Now,
14:14that's clinical sleep apnnea. That
14:17doesn't even count subclinical.
14:19>> And if you're a senior listening now,
14:20which is 65 years older, there's a 30 to
14:2460% chance. Wow.
14:26>> Depending on some numbers you see,
14:27Stephen, you'll see a billion people
14:29across the globe.
14:30>> Yeah, that's what it says. It says a
14:31billion people. Yeah.
14:33>> Now, that's only apnea. That's not
14:35insomnia. That's not all the other sleep
14:37disorders. That's simply the one variant
14:40of it.
14:40>> Why is this happening? Because again
14:43from an evolutionary perspective, sleep
14:44apnnea couldn't have been a great for
14:46survival.
14:47>> Yeah. Three primary reasons why this is
14:50happening. The first is the fact that
14:52our our environment is physically
14:54changing.
14:56Our ancestors never had to deal with
14:57this.
14:59Two, our current solutions for testing
15:02are either insanely outdated or
15:05incredibly difficult to get to.
15:08The third major one
15:10is our solutions that we provide people
15:12in public communication are wildly
15:14generic. Thus not helpful. In fact, if
15:17you were to pull everyone listening
15:18right now, sleep comes up and you go,
15:20"Oh, great." They're going to tell me to
15:22sleep in a quiet room that's cold and
15:24dark and they're like, "I've heard it
15:26all." And you have. Where we need to get
15:28to next is how do we help people find
15:29these precision solutions based on their
15:32type of sleep issues. But that's that's
15:34the three-part reason uh why this stuff
15:36is happening. I'd like to go into all
15:38three of them. I also would like to just
15:39pause on the diagnosis part because
15:40there'll be people listening here that
15:41might have a suspicion that they need
15:44help. But again, they're going off their
15:45feelings.
15:46>> Yeah.
15:46>> How can they know for sure what help
15:49they need and what their problem is?
15:50>> Yeah. I always start with subjective.
15:53How do you feel? If you feel good, let's
15:56now like immediately take a breath.
15:59>> You have good energy. You wake up. You
16:01feel good. Like everyone's going to be a
16:02little bit tired.
16:03We also don't we've actually had a I've
16:05been working with for several years a
16:07very close friend of you and I. We
16:08constantly have to battle because he'll
16:10just get like really honestly terrified
16:12because he gets sleepy at the end of the
16:13day. And I'm like bro that's the point.
16:17[laughter]
16:18People that are hard chargers, high
16:19performers are actually afraid of being
16:21tired. We have to recognize and realize
16:24that is natural and needed. You need to
16:28feel a little bit sleepy in the early
16:29afternoon and you should feel tired,
16:31unmotivated, lack of focus at the end of
16:33the day.
16:34>> What if I didn't used to? Because that's
16:36what people they compare it to old
16:38version of themselves.
16:39>> Sure. Again, we can say natural. When
16:42you are sub 25,
16:45like you're you're just a powerhouse,
16:47right? When you're past 25, we shouldn't
16:50just accept frailty. We shouldn't accept
16:53a permanent decline. But we do have to
16:54start to realize we're not going to have
16:57the energy of a 20-year-old. Like it's
16:59just it's just not typically super
17:00realistic. And if you do, you're
17:03probably getting there exogenously,
17:05right? Stimulants and other things which
17:08have a place, but we just want to be a
17:09little bit careful of those things.
17:11>> We'll talk about stimulants, melatonin,
17:12and all these things. But going back to
17:14this point of diagnosis, yeah.
17:15>> So Jenny who doesn't have much money.
17:17>> Y
17:18>> how does she get
17:18>> Okay, great. So one thing we can do and
17:20we can put these in your show notes for
17:21you for free. There are a ton of
17:23completely free short questionnaires
17:25that are scientifically validated.
17:27>> Okay?
17:27>> You can do these for RLS, you can do
17:29them for insomnia, you can do them for
17:31apnea, you can do them for circadian
17:33disruptions and disorders, you can do
17:35them for chronoype. Are you a a morning
17:38person or tons and I'll put as many of
17:40these for free. So my answer there would
17:42be start with one of those.
17:43>> Okay.
17:44>> If you flag that and you want to move up
17:45to the next step, then you kind of have
17:47a couple of different ways. And your two
17:49options are what we'll call wearables at
17:52home tech. These are typically we'll
17:53call the $100 to $600 range.
17:56>> Mhm.
17:56>> And then [clears throat] past that, you
17:57have a true medical option, which is a
18:00sleep hospital. This is when you would
18:02go into, you know, the hospital, you go
18:04into that weird room, and you sit there,
18:06you get all the wires, someone looks at
18:07you through a window, you sleep in for
18:09one night. You can see from the look on
18:11your face sort of, you're just like,
18:12"All right, who wants to do that?"
18:14>> Mhm. If you have a true disease at this
18:17point, for the most part, the sleep
18:19hospital, depending on the disease, it
18:21is where you need to get to. Now, what
18:24our group is working on and others is
18:28can we bring the sleep possible into the
18:29home. It's not super affordable at this
18:32point. We're working to get it there,
18:33but that is the clear future. If you
18:35have insurance, take that validated
18:38questionnaire I just said. Go to your
18:39doctor and say, "Here's what I scored
18:41this thing. Will you order me that sleep
18:43study?" Mhm.
18:44>> is a giant pain. I know it, but it is it
18:46is probably worth it. If you want to use
18:48the wearable, you can do that. The
18:50problem with the wearables is numerous.
18:52They are awesome at things like
18:55awareness, at accountability, right?
18:58They're pretty good for things like
19:00total sleep time. They're really, really
19:02bad. And a major pitfall for wearables
19:05is predicting things like deep sleep and
19:08REM sleep. Do you know what I you know I
19:10was I was thinking about I was thinking
19:12about certain times where um I've done
19:14certain things behaviorally and then I
19:18got in bed woke up feeling terrible and
19:20my wearable said to me
19:23>> you had a bad really bad night's sleep
19:24and I could kind of put two and two
19:26together and kind of establish cause and
19:28effect and I could almost I guess test
19:30that then going forward and say okay
19:32don't do that or maybe get in bed
19:33earlier or the heat was was way too high
19:35whatever it might be and I could sort of
19:37AB test my way to a better outcome.
19:39Yeah. So they can give you things like
19:41total sleep time. As I said, what you
19:43want to be careful of are the
19:46aggregate sleep effectiveness score,
19:48sleep quality score. That's the stuff
19:50that directionally won't be there. But
19:52you actually said something interesting
19:53a second ago, which is you felt worse.
19:56>> Mhm.
19:56>> That's the only directional thing we
19:58need to have to pay attention to. If you
20:00go, "Wow, I felt worse today."
20:03>> And then you can go backwards and go,
20:04"Yeah, that's because I did A, B, and C
20:06yesterday or I felt better today."
20:08That's not the only metric. And to be
20:10really clear, I'm not advocating to
20:11ditch all the wearables. We use them
20:13extensively.
20:14It's just really being careful about
20:17what data from those we pay attention
20:18to.
20:19>> Mhm.
20:19>> And what we don't. So stuff that we do
20:21now is find big themes
20:24that they're often times missing. Here's
20:27a good example. We had 1,200 days of
20:29data from I think it was an aura ring.
20:32And we are actually able to find that in
20:34in one of our clients for every one drop
20:38in resting heart rate. So his resting
20:40heart rate say went from 65 beats per
20:42minute to 64.
20:43He got six more minutes of sleep.
20:47And so we were like, "Okay, great. You
20:48want to add an hour to your sleep. Let's
20:50continue to work on your cardiovascular
20:52fitness." Every time he got more fit,
20:55his resting heart rate dropped. He slept
20:56more. Additionally, every time you put
20:58and you invest in down regulation,
21:01you'll lower your resting heart rate
21:03going into bed. You will sleep longer.
21:05So, he was a classic case of like, I try
21:07to go to bed, I do all the things, but I
21:09just can't stay in bed. So, the key
21:10there to get him the more sleep is to
21:12put his physiology in a position that
21:13would allow him to have more sleep. And
21:15for him, like that was the canary in the
21:16coal mine. So, that's the type of stuff
21:18where wearables can be like you can't
21:20replace that. Not only from a data, but
21:24from a coaching perspective. It was so
21:26easy for me to communicate to him,
21:28here's your data.
21:30This is our target. And he's an
21:32extraordinarily busy person. He's like,
21:34great, I got one thing to pay attention
21:36to. Do whatever it takes to keep that
21:37heart rate low going into bed. Copy
21:39that.
21:40>> What in his case was making his heart
21:42rate high.
21:42>> When it comes to something like sleep,
21:44anything that is in your physical
21:46environment, that's in your lifestyle,
21:48that's in your physiology can impact it.
21:50I mentioned earlier one of the reasons
21:51why sleep is getting worse is because
21:53these physical changes in our
21:54environment. annual spend on sleep is
21:56like 600 billion right now, but yet we
21:59have seen a 60inute drop in total sleep
22:02time over the last 60 years. So you're
22:05seeing an inverse. We're spending more
22:06on sleep and sleep is getting worse. I
22:09think your team printed out some cards
22:10here and we can go through them. The
22:12first one is a really good one. The
22:14world is physically brighter. In fact,
22:15there's data from NASA satellite data
22:18that can look and say the world is
22:19physically brighter now. you're expected
22:21to be communicating with Singapore and
22:23Australia and the US, which means you're
22:26going to be up later. Your business is
22:27going to be on. Your lights are going to
22:29be on. There's also a phenomenon called
22:31skylow, where the light from Earth is
22:33going up, hitting the clouds, and being
22:34shot back down. And so, it's keeping our
22:37world brighter. So, when you hear people
22:39talk about things like you got to have
22:41these blackout curtains and masks, and
22:43you're thinking like, I never did that
22:45when I was a kid. Like, what's the big
22:47deal? It's because of this. I mean
22:49there's some graphs that I found here.
22:52>> Yeah. Yeah.
22:52>> Which kind of demonstrate this which
22:53I'll put up on the screen.
22:54>> Yeah. More people are moving into urban
22:56environments. And if you look at some of
22:57the studies, not to be dramatic, but
22:59some of the studies have found things as
23:00high as like anxiety and depression are
23:02up 20 plus% when you move into the city.
23:05And that's largely attributed to things
23:07like light and sound. It's extremely
23:10bright and extremely loud in cities. It
23:12doesn't mean they're bad or you can't
23:13live in them. It just simply means
23:16that's why you have to take extra steps.
23:18I think a lot of people listening to
23:19this will think, "Well, Andy, my my
23:21bedroom's very dark."
23:22>> Great.
23:22>> But that's actually not what you're
23:23saying, is it? Because the way I was
23:25thinking about it is we are here in New
23:27York City now, and if I walked to the
23:30shop last night at 10:00 p.m.
23:31>> Yeah.
23:32>> and walked back, I was exposed to so so
23:35much light outside at a critical time
23:38when my body should be not exposed to
23:40light that it's going to impact me even
23:42when I get into that dark room.
23:43>> It goes even better than that. There's
23:45evidence now that the light exposure you
23:46have both in the morning and throughout
23:48the day dramatically counteracts what
23:51you just mentioned. So yes, you went for
23:54that walk, you went for that thing when
23:56light was still out and you had a
23:57brighter light exposure in we'll just
23:59call it the 3 or 4 hours before bed than
24:01you would have had ever in the past.
24:02>> Mhm.
24:03>> But you can mitigate that damage by
24:06seeing light appropriately during the
24:08day and in the morning.
24:10>> Oh, okay.
24:11>> And and this is actually something my
24:13friend
24:14Andrew Huberman has talked about for
24:16years now and I'm like I've always joked
24:17and laughed at him but then I'm like
24:19damn he nailed this. Like he was way
24:20ahead in this one. Light exposure in the
24:22morning will impact your sleep at night
24:25the next day. He always explains it as
24:27setting your circadian rhythm but it's
24:29more than that actually. It's like
24:31that's the part where I was like yeah
24:32whatever. Like I'm in the same time
24:33zone. Why do I care? But now I'm like,
24:35"Oh." Because then if you were exposed
24:37to high amounts of light later in the
24:39day, that exposure to light earlier will
24:42help reduce that damage.
24:44>> There's this whole cascade of things
24:46that influence when it is time to be
24:48awake and when it is time to go to
24:49sleep. And this is both hormonal based
24:52as well as neurally based. So your brain
24:56will shut down or activate in response
24:58to light, in response to exercise, in
25:01response to arousal, in response to
25:02food, in response to stimulants and a
25:04whole host of other things. That light
25:06earlier in the day sets that rhythm.
25:08>> Okay? So it's like starting the
25:10>> it starts the clock. It starts the sleep
25:12pressure. This is uh oh this is the
25:14graph of rural versus urban plot. And so
25:17yeah, I mean you can see that pretty
25:18clearly. The red line here is the noise
25:21in in a rural environment. And this is
25:22the noise here. The typical number you
25:25want to see um for sound at night is
25:27like 35 dB, right? So if you see the
25:30rural environment, you're cruising at
25:32about that. And you see the urban
25:33environment, you're looking in the 60 to
25:357 as a baseline.
25:36>> And it really matters sound when you
25:37sleep.
25:38>> Tons.
25:38>> Really?
25:38>> Yeah. As much if not more of any other
25:40factor that the big thing with sound is
25:42inconsistency. A lot of people will do
25:44things like uh put a sound machine in
25:45the room. [clears throat]
25:46>> Most people put them too loud because of
25:49that thing. So you put them pretty
25:51common default is like 40 to 50 dB for a
25:54sound machine. More the data suggests
25:56sub 40 especially for kids if you're
25:58using a sound machine for your children.
26:00Most people put them too close and too
26:02loud.
26:02>> What's a sound machine?
26:03>> Uh just a little device that makes a
26:05white noise. And what that does is it
26:07cancels out a bunch of low-level
26:09inconsistent sounds. Oh,
26:11>> okay.
26:11>> So the dog getting up, the window
26:13creaking, the you know the car driving
26:16by and so it can kind of cancel that
26:17noise level out. How come I can have
26:19like a great night's sleep listening to
26:21a podcast falling asleep whereas my
26:24partner can't? She needs silence and I I
26:26I almost feel like I need to listen to
26:28something to fall asleep.
26:29>> Most likely you would do better if you
26:30didn't do that.
26:31>> Really?
26:31>> Yeah.
26:32>> You turn them off before you go to
26:33sleep, right?
26:33>> No.
26:34>> Yeah. Okay.
26:35>> That will never lead to your best sleep.
26:37>> Okay.
26:38>> What happens is you get to bed and
26:41something is happening cognitively
26:42>> and you're like, I need something to
26:44switch me off
26:44>> to distract me. [laughter] Yeah.
26:47>> Great. If we took that away from you,
26:50you might sleep worse because you're
26:52going to sit there and struggle through
26:53that moment.
26:55>> If you wanted to go from upgrade, we
26:56would say, "Okay, let's figure out what
26:58is actually a way for you to
26:59downregulate cognitively,
27:02give you that same thing that won't then
27:04disrupt your sleep throughout the
27:05night."
27:05>> Have you dealt with people in that
27:06situation before?
27:07>> Super common. Podcasts are an incredibly
27:09common one with that. Uh TV, books. My
27:12philosophy is let's step back and solve
27:15causes. Let's solve constraints rather
27:18than mask them. Uh you've got a host of
27:20different supplements over here.
27:22Everything you see in this table has
27:25moderate to strong scientific evidence
27:27that it will help with sleep.
27:28>> What are those things?
27:29>> So lovely, delicious looking tart cherry
27:32juice and I'll go through why that is.
27:34There you've got some chamomile tea. You
27:35would see this in a supplement form of
27:38apogenine. It's a really common way of
27:39that as kind of like distilled
27:40chamomile. Um look at these lovely
27:43kiwis. What's funny here is this is
27:45actually what happens in in research.
27:47They will give people two to three
27:48kiwis. They will eat them right before
27:50bed and you will very routinely see
27:52people sleeping better after ingestion
27:54of kiwis.
27:56Um other things that are high on the
27:59evidence-based list are of course
28:00magnesium and various forms. More of the
28:03research now on magnesium for sleep is
28:06turning to a particular form called
28:08magnesium bislycinate
28:10um rather than 38. That's up there as
28:13well. Uh, you will also see things like
28:16omega-3. This is your common fish oil.
28:17Oh, this is actually interesting because
28:19this popped up on your labs as something
28:22we have to work on.
28:23>> Oh, my test.
28:24>> Yeah, we'll come back to that in a
28:25second.
28:25>> Okay.
28:26>> And then of course you've got melatonin,
28:29right? The issue with all these is the
28:31same that you have with your podcast.
28:35These are doing the exact same thing.
28:37So, one thing we could do is say ditch
28:39the podcast and let's go with one or
28:41multiple of these options because
28:42they're doing the same thing. They're
28:43cognitive turnoff. Apen or chamomile
28:46specifically will play that role. It is
28:48a reasonable switch that says frontal
28:51cortex turn off. And so, you're getting
28:53there through the podcast where you
28:55could get through theirs through food or
28:56supplements if you'd like as well.
28:59>> Kiwis, Kiwis have scientific evidence
29:02that they improve sleep for some people.
29:05It's really common. If there's like
29:06levels to this, you'd probably like
29:08level one, two, and three. Level one
29:09being things like actually surprising
29:11enough magnesium, chamomile, melatonin,
29:14of course, lots of randomized control
29:16trials.
29:17>> Level one being the best,
29:19>> the best of the best,
29:20>> the best, highest quality.
29:21>> And you'd say what? Magnesium, kiwis.
29:23>> Yeah, kiwis would probably be like a
29:25level two or level three.
29:26>> Okay.
29:26>> So, there's been good studies on them
29:28enough to put them on this table. Enough
29:30to say there's data there. So, you're
29:32getting some product below it. In this
29:34case, epigenine, in this case, other
29:36phyitochemicals
29:38that either reduce a little bit of
29:40cognitive function, they reduce arousal,
29:42they put you in some sort of checkout
29:44state.
29:45>> And then there's this one over here,
29:46melatonin. Yeah.
29:47>> That a lot of people are aware of.
29:48>> Yeah.
29:49>> Strong. [clears throat] What level is
29:51melatonin?
29:52>> So melatonin probably has more evidence
29:54than the rest of these things combined
29:55because it's a medicine. It's a drug.
29:57There's a ton of research on it from
29:59children to aging to bone health and
30:02tons of other stuff, right? It's a
30:04hormone. You're going to be able to to
30:05move some units with this one. Um,
30:08nobody is going to be super concerned
30:10about risk factor profiles with eating
30:12two kiwis,
30:13>> but you start getting to the level of
30:15something like a melatonin and now you
30:17have to have real conversations about
30:18risk versus benefits. We typically don't
30:21use melatonin
30:23at the dosage that's normal. So a common
30:25dosage for melatonin is like 5
30:26milligrams, sometimes even up to 10.
30:28>> Wow.
30:29>> We will typically use like.3
30:31maybe 0.5. So about a tenth that dose. A
30:33lot of times we're trying to find like
30:34one milligrams, cut them in half, kind
30:36of things like that. The only real
30:39reason we use melatonin outside of some
30:41fringe cases is when we actually
30:43legitimately need to reset circadian
30:45rhythm, travel, jet lag,
30:49things like that. Uh and it is effective
30:51and it is useful there. It is safe in
30:52small doses. Where people mistake
30:56melatonin is I use it every night to go
30:58to sleep and or I wake up in the middle
31:00of the night, can't go back to sleep, I
31:02go grab a melatonin.
31:03>> Why is that bad?
31:04>> It doesn't work.
31:05>> It doesn't work.
31:06>> No, because the thing that melatonin is
31:08supposed to do is realign circadian
31:10rhythm. If you're in the middle of the
31:11night, you're already in that rhythm.
31:13It's not going to do anything. You would
31:15in fact, not to not want people to do
31:16this, but you would actually be better
31:18reaching for something like a chamomile
31:20perhaps because if you're having a hard
31:21time getting back to sleep cognitively,
31:24this is not going to do it. The other
31:25issue is we've done a lot of morning
31:28urine testing. There's enough studies
31:32that look at the dosage that's actually
31:33in the pill versus on the label and they
31:35can be up to 100x higher.
31:38>> 100x.
31:40>> And we see this in morning urine. We
31:42have seen people who are consistently
31:44tired.
31:45Their sleep doesn't look horrible.
31:47They're doing all the right things. It's
31:48cold. It's dark. They're meditating.
31:50They're doing all this stuff. They're
31:52popping in even a moderate dose of
31:53melatonin. And the amount of melatonin
31:56the next day in their urine is 100x the
31:59upper end of the reference range, which
32:01means they're spending the rest of their
32:04next day in a hyperdosed melatonin
32:07state. So they have to live then on
32:09stimulants to get better.
32:10>> How would they feel and horrible?
32:12>> They would feel sluggish and
32:13>> you wake up the next day and you're
32:15like, man, it's what we call sleep
32:16inertia.
32:17>> You're wildly groggy. You can't get out
32:19of bed or you're just getting throughout
32:21the day. This is a like don't talk to me
32:23until I've had my coffee kind of
32:25response, right? This is not a normal
32:27waking physiology that you should be
32:29going through.
32:30>> Presumably, that's just melatonin from
32:34sort of cheap sources that haven't been
32:36tested. That's going to knock off a huge
32:38part of your problem, right? Only this
32:40is why we'll always say you don't, no
32:41one needs supplements. Like no essential
32:44person needs to have any supplement to
32:45live a great happy healthy life. If you
32:48choose to use supplements though,
32:50just buy them from third-party tested
32:53transparent
32:54companies that place their testing on
32:57their websites that give you open access
32:58to it for for these exact reasons.
33:00Vitamin D's has a similar profile of
33:03inaccuracy. The other issue with that
33:05then simply let's say you're buying it
33:06from a high quality source. You're
33:07dosing it too much and you're taking it
33:09too late. So take it earlier than you
33:12think before bed so that your body has a
33:14chance to break it down before the next
33:16morning.
33:16>> What kind of time and how quickly acting
33:18is it?
33:19>> It's person to person dependent, but a
33:21lot of times you'll see things like an
33:22hour before. Uh some people will feel a
33:24response in 10 to 15 minutes. Some
33:27people will feel it closer to an hour.
33:28But that's a pretty good window.
33:29>> Hang on. If it's 2 a.m. in the morning
33:31and you're and you're getting in bed,
33:32don't take it. Don't take it at all.
33:34>> Okay,
33:34>> we're going to use this in very specific
33:36situations and then we're coming off of
33:38it. This is this should not be a part of
33:40your nightly routine most of the time.
33:41>> What exactly is going on in my brain
33:43when I take melatonin? Cuz a lot of
33:44people take it and we know that it makes
33:45us feel tired but but understanding the
33:47mechanism I think will help us under
33:49understand the application.
33:50>> So it actually doesn't really make you
33:51feel tired. That's part of the issue.
33:53>> Oh
33:53>> the mechanism is a circadian shift. So
33:55it's telling your indogenous system that
33:57this is nighttime. So it doesn't hit you
33:59with like a oh my eyes are there. This
34:02hits you with a shift in cortisol. This
34:04hits you with a shift in a whole cascade
34:07of epinephrine, norepinephrine,
34:09serotonin that are moving around and
34:11saying this is the millu that you need
34:12to be in that is consistent with a sleep
34:15pattern.
34:15>> Okay. So, I take it and then it
34:17regulates my other hormones which would
34:19be getting in the way of me feeling
34:21tired theoretically.
34:22>> That's probably more appropriate to what
34:23it does.
34:24>> Okay. Because yeah, I've taken it a
34:25couple of times again always for jet lag
34:28issues and within about 30 45 minutes I
34:30feel a bit drowsy and then I find my
34:32eyes going shutting and I'm off.
34:34>> Great. And then you get out of those
34:36that 2 or 3 day window,
34:38>> put it back away and you're off and
34:40going. That's a good use case for it.
34:42The mistake is when this is like I can't
34:44go to bed without
34:45>> I'm generally scared of all these things
34:46because um
34:47>> honestly anything that's effective I'm
34:49more scared of [laughter]
34:50>> and so sure
34:51>> it's really effective which makes me
34:53hesitant to use it frequently.
34:55>> Yeah,
34:55>> it's a good default position to be in by
34:56the way.
34:57>> It's a good strategy.
34:58>> Yeah, cuz I one of the things you learn
34:59from doing a podcast like this is you
35:01just learn that everything has a
35:02trade-off
35:02>> always.
35:03>> And I and again this might not be
35:04logically sound but I assume that the
35:06bigger the upside the bigger the tra
35:08like the trade I'm making on the other
35:09side as a general rule. So, do you know
35:11the only thing that I've still not been
35:12able to, I guess, understand the full
35:14trade-off of is coffee
35:16>> because the upside is so significant. No
35:19one can articulate to me the downside
35:21other than they say if you have it after
35:23midday, it's going to
35:24>> impact your sleep. But I'm like, come
35:26on, there's got to be.
35:27>> The phrase that I'll say in my class all
35:29the time is there's no free passes in
35:30physiology.
35:31>> Mhm.
35:32>> With coffee specifically, there actually
35:33we have a meta analysis led by my
35:36colleague Dr. Ben House puts this
35:39together. But if you look at the
35:40research on caffeine and sleep, it's
35:41very interesting because if you go
35:45through sleep deprivation, your physical
35:47and cognitive performance goes down. No
35:50surprise there. Coffee can offset that.
35:52Caffeine specifically is is the thing.
35:55But what it doesn't do, at least the
35:57data and the meta analysis suggests, is
36:00it doesn't actually put you back into
36:02the augmented spot. Meaning if you did
36:04you sleep great last night?
36:06>> I think so. Yeah.
36:06>> Full night. Okay. Let's just say you're
36:08there. If we took you out and we had you
36:10throw that medicine ball and we did a
36:13grip strength tester and we did what
36:15some sprints up and down or whatever you
36:16wanted to do, you would perform well.
36:19And then if we gave you caffeine, you'd
36:21perform better. It's why we call it
36:22erggoenicate. It's a performance
36:23enhancer. Caffeine is really effective
36:24primarily at endurance based events, but
36:27it is a stimulatory thing that people
36:29will use. So let's just say you have
36:31normal baseline performance, then
36:33caffeine augments that performance. If
36:35you go into sleep debt, the sleep itself
36:38will reduce your performance. And the
36:40coffee can bring you back to normal, but
36:43it won't bring you back to that
36:44augmented state that you had when you
36:45were rested and caffeinated. This is
36:48important because a lot of people will
36:50be like, "Ah, I'll throw away the sleep
36:52or I won't worry about it as much
36:53because I'll just take more stimulants
36:55tomorrow and I feel great." You will
36:58feel as good, but you will not perform
36:59as well. So, what you need to perform at
37:01your best if you're a caffeine user is
37:04to be both well-rested and then
37:06caffeinated. Another thing you want to
37:08pay attention to in your sleep
37:09environment, um, labeled ergonomics here
37:11is your pillow, your bed, your mattress.
37:15This is mostly
37:17based on feel.
37:18>> Is there any no- go in this regard?
37:19>> Not really.
37:20>> Not really.
37:21>> No. Unless, let's say you have a
37:23sleeping partner and you're sleeping in
37:24a bed that is too small and that results
37:26in you hitting each other or touching
37:27each other and you don't like that. So
37:29other than those uh the framework
37:31themselves there there's really no
37:33nothing to be concerned with.
37:34>> What about these like eight beds?
37:36>> Asleep is fantastic. So asleep is not a
37:38bed it's a cover
37:40>> which regulates temperature. If you are
37:42in a bedding situation where you're
37:43getting hot then that's a problem. So if
37:47then an eight will help you regulate
37:49that temperature it's a great solution.
37:51If you're not in that situation then
37:53you're going to be just fine. So
37:55temperature regulation is a really big
37:56deal
37:57>> and you'll quite often see people that
37:59do that. Whether that's getting a
38:01product like that or it's getting a
38:03sheet that's cooler or a mattress that
38:05is better with ventilation, then you'll
38:07often times see them sleep a little bit
38:08better. Next on our list is screen
38:12usage. Everyone has been told and you
38:14know perhaps nothing's more destructive
38:15when you're sleeping screen. What's more
38:17interesting here is the stuff that
38:19people generally don't talk about. It's
38:20not the fact that necessarily screen
38:23usage is shooting your face with a bunch
38:25of blue light. What's more dangerous
38:27about your screen is the arousal
38:30associated with the search for novelty.
38:33>> The search for novelty. What does that
38:35mean?
38:36>> You're engaging in a podcast,
38:40social media, a game is puzzle driven.
38:43It is solution. It is interest. It is
38:46engagement. It is search for the next.
38:48That's the stuff that more likely than
38:51not cause sleep disturbance
38:52disturbances.
38:54In the studies that have looked at
38:56things like TV time versus tablet versus
38:59phone versus reading, those all can be
39:02equally dangerous to sleep. Here is the
39:05example. I am a TV before bed guy. A
39:09giant TV with a blast of blue light. I
39:12sleep great with that. My wife is really
39:16struggles with light before bed. she
39:18will read and yet she chooses to read
39:21things that I don't think she should be
39:22reading for a night and then she'll wake
39:23up because of the topics that she's
39:25reading where I'm watching things on TV
39:27that are you know documentaries on
39:29Ulysius Grant or something and you're
39:31just like that is the least engaging
39:32thing ever. So it's not the fact that
39:34the light is there. Um I use that stuff
39:37much like you use your podcasts which is
39:39my entire day is so driven by somebody
39:41wanting my attention and time. I have to
39:44have something that gives me a cognitive
39:45switch that says you get to turn off.
39:47>> I wanted to add something to this which
39:49I've been thinking about this week. So
39:51in Meta, Meta own Instagram and Facebook
39:54and WhatsApp etc. In Meta's earnings
39:57call this week, Mark Zuckerberg talked
39:59about how they had changed the
40:00recommendation algorithm on social media
40:02apps using AI. And this was something
40:04that we've always forecasted would
40:05happen and we've been thinking about the
40:06creator economy and how it would impact
40:08it. But specifically for people
40:09listening, what essentially he said is
40:11every time you post something on
40:12Instagram, whether it's a real or or a
40:15normal post, they [snorts] now feed it
40:17to a large language model, an AI, and
40:19the AI effectively, and again, I'm
40:21summarizing here, watches it, and it can
40:23now understand the full context of what
40:25it's watching. So, if it's watching a
40:27clip of you and me right now, it'll
40:28understand that that is Andy Galpin.
40:30He's holding a card, he's wearing a
40:32black t-shirt, he's it'll look at the
40:34transcript, it'll know what you said.
40:35And this is all pertinent because it
40:37then can without in the past needing to
40:41look at the caption and the hashtags, it
40:44can then decide with way more context
40:47than ever before who exactly would want
40:50to see that. And the net impact of that
40:52for for the user of Instagram or these
40:54other social media apps or Tik Tok or
40:55whatever it is, is you're going to be
40:57more retained now than ever before. And
40:59as you were talking about that, I
41:00thought, I wonder if they think about
41:01timing of day. Like, I wonder if they
41:04think at 11 p.m. there's a certain thing
41:08that's going to keep Andy scrolling
41:10versus something at 9:00 a.m. when
41:12you're off to work. And of course they
41:14do because that and you know they were
41:16talking about on the earnings call Mark
41:18was saying how it's increased retention
41:20by I think 15 basis points. And there's
41:23this quote where he said there are
41:24already two large sets of content to
41:26draw from. first from your friends and
41:29people you follow and second from
41:31creators that you don't follow. But now
41:33there's going to be a whole new and
41:35nearly infinite universe of personalized
41:39content which from that I infer what
41:40they're saying is with their new large
41:43language model called Muse is we're
41:45actually going to make new content to
41:47show Andy Galpin
41:48>> that no one made no humans made. We're
41:50going to make stuff that we know Andy
41:53will like. And so I say all this to say
41:55that in this sleep conversation, we've
41:56been talking about as creators. We've
41:57been saying basically it's going to get
41:58really difficult if you're a creator
42:00because now if you have a million
42:01followers, it doesn't matter. No, if
42:02Jenny has zero followers, but she makes
42:04something that is contextually more
42:05interesting than the million follower
42:06guy, Jenny's thing is going to see be
42:08seen to everyone. But actually now
42:09you're going to be competing with an AI
42:11that's going to be churning out super
42:13personalized Andy Galpin content.
42:15>> Like that just Andy would just love at
42:1811 p.m.
42:19>> I said to my team this week, I was like,
42:20just take care of yourself. Do you know
42:22what I mean? Just be aware, you know,
42:25when you open your phone that the AI is
42:27doing everything it can to retain you.
42:29>> Yeah. I mean, just don't be on your
42:32phone. We've been making this argument
42:34for years, but gez, um, you got every
42:36disadvantage possible coming in your
42:38way. And and look, we're all human. I I
42:42think I remember
42:44last time I was here, you were talking
42:46about how like you wake up and your
42:47phone's right there, but your your
42:49fiance like doesn't touch your phone for
42:50the first hour of the day or something.
42:51and it's just like on the charger until
42:53noon or something. You're just like,
42:54"What? I'm more like you." Right? I'm
42:56like, "My phone is in my room. It's not
42:58three rooms. Like, I'm just not doing
42:59any of that stuff." Right? And we
43:01started this entire piece by saying the
43:02environment you're in is just different
43:03than it's ever been before. And it's not
43:05getting any better. And at some point,
43:08you have to make that decision of
43:11do you care about your own health? Do
43:15you care about the thing the next day
43:18that you didn't do well? And you care
43:21more about that than you cared about
43:22that next reel.
43:23>> What is it that's causing us to
43:25understand everything you just said, but
43:27to ignore it and to pick up our phone
43:29anyway?
43:30>> You are hard driven through the entire
43:32biology of our species to search for
43:34novelty.
43:36In fact, I I look at this from the lens
43:38of sports. Why do you care about high
43:42achievement? Why do I care about
43:44performance? There has direct
43:46translation. When someone breaks a
43:48barrier,
43:50we all benefit from that. And I could
43:52give you direct examples of this. But we
43:55have every story. You want to go to
43:58Joseph Campbell heroes journey, right?
44:00You want to go back to Hercules, the
44:02story of the marathon. Like you pull any
44:04story from history out and what are you
44:06actually looking at? You're looking at
44:08somebody did something that no one has
44:09ever done before. You care more about
44:11records
44:13than you do regular wins and losses.
44:15Why? because they're novel.
44:19Why are you more interested in watching
44:23Messi break that record
44:25than you are the other team winning in
44:28the exact same shot?
44:30It's because you saw something. You got
44:32to be there when someone did something
44:34for the first time in human history.
44:36>> I get more of a dopamine hit from the
44:37novelty, from the new thing.
44:38>> It's more than the dopamine hit, though.
44:40It's a sense of purpose. Your life
44:42mattered
44:44because you got to be involved in
44:45something no one else has ever seen. And
44:48even as that bystander on TV 30,000
44:51kilometers away, you got to be a part of
44:54that. And that all comes down to we are
44:58so wired
44:59to reward novelty.
45:02So then now that comes back to your life
45:04and you have to be thinking how do you
45:06walk away from that core drive? thinking
45:09about a study I read about in psychology
45:11class in school with pigeons getting
45:14variable rewards.
45:15>> I'm going to butcher this, but bear with
45:16me. They took a pigeon and they got a
45:18little lever for it to press and every
45:20time it would press the lever and
45:22sometimes it would get a reward. And
45:24they found from the study that if they
45:26made the rewards variable, i.e. it
45:28couldn't predict when it was coming, the
45:30pigeon was more likely to keep pressing
45:32the lever, i.e. it was more addicted to
45:33the behavior if it didn't know when the
45:35dopamine hit was coming or the the treat
45:37in that case. Scrolling on social media
45:39is kind of like the slot machine of
45:40variable rewards. I just don't know what
45:42I'm going to get. But every fourth, you
45:44know, scroll, I get something that
45:46>> or every 40th.
45:47>> Yeah. Orth better, right? Because the
45:50more unpredictable it is,
45:52>> the more likely you are to be like, "One
45:53more, one more, one more, one more."
45:55Right? Like, if it actually comes too
45:56quickly, you care less.
45:58>> So, you're going to scroll through all
45:59the boring stuff, boring stuff, boring
46:00stuff, boring stuff, boring stuff for
46:02the one out of every 40 that gets you.
46:04That's what you're actually there for. I
46:06mean, if I gave most people and I said
46:08like you can have $10,000
46:11or you can have $10,000 in equity in a
46:13startup.
46:15I look at your face. Like I know what
46:16you're doing, right? [laughter]
46:18You want to like people are it depends
46:20on where you're at, right? But it's just
46:21like okay. And if I said right now the
46:24most likely scenario is that $10,000 is
46:26go zero.
46:27>> Yeah.
46:27>> Which is what happens, right? You're
46:30like kind of hedge. Can I go five and
46:32five? like you're you're going to go you
46:33don't you unless you need the 10 grand
46:35which a lot of people do but you get the
46:37point because you're like man walking
46:40away from belief walking away from hope
46:43walking away from what if is in insanely
46:45hard to do.
46:46>> I deleted one of these social media apps
46:47just completely from my phone and
46:49honestly you always think that you're
46:50going to have like FOMO. You're not
46:52going to know what's going on or there's
46:53going to be some huge loss to your life
46:54if you don't have an app on your phone.
46:56And it's just remarkable when you delete
46:57these some of these social media apps
46:59how positive of a net impact it has on
47:01your life.
47:03>> I have a a friend of mine named Shaun
47:05Ali, a famous UFC fighter. He was
47:08sitting at his pool and he had his
47:10daughter was like one or two years old
47:11and he was like scrolling Twitter and
47:14was like, "What am I doing?" Like my
47:16daughter's over here in front of me.
47:18He's 2 years old and like I'm on
47:19scrolling like not doing work or not
47:21making a post. Not like I'm just
47:23scrolling.
47:24dumped it was just like team you guys
47:26handle it not on any social media more
47:29>> so that screens
47:30>> that's screens my friend another one to
47:32think about which we've sort of touched
47:33on is called the presence of other
47:35beings this is our classic sleep divorce
47:40I assume you uh as I do share your
47:44sleeping environment with your partner
47:45>> yes
47:45>> tough to make the argument of like get a
47:48sick divorce right
47:49>> yeah I'm not telling her
47:50>> you can tell that
47:51>> it's funny [snorts] if it was up to my
47:54if we would have a sleep divorce.
47:55>> You're joking.
47:56>> No,
47:56>> she's like, "Get away from me. Don't
47:58touch me." She wants to like if we could
48:00have separate beds in separate rooms,
48:02she I don't snore earning, but she just
48:03like
48:04>> My fiance is the opposite.
48:05>> It's not super realistic, but it is
48:07true. There are data behind it. People
48:09generally don't sleep as well when
48:11you're in the same bed as others. The
48:14realistic solution, try to get sheets or
48:17a sleeping situation in which when one
48:19partner moves, it doesn't roll the other
48:20person.
48:21>> Oh, like separate sheets. separate
48:23sheets or simply the type of sheets.
48:25>> Um my wife loves to be really
48:28constricted so she likes the sheets
48:30tucked in tight. She likes to bed and I
48:31hate it. Like
48:33>> I feel like I'm in Shaw Shank. I'm like
48:34break me out like rip it all out of
48:35there. So there's little things like
48:37that that don't require you to buy
48:38anything where you just change kind of
48:42the the setup and the scenario to where
48:45their movement doesn't impact you as
48:46much. Um noise would be the same one. if
48:48you are sleeping with somebody who makes
48:49a lot of noise, tosses and turns a
48:51bunch, um you could put a pillow in
48:53between, so when they roll over and
48:55move, they don't hit you, earplugs,
48:57things like that. So, that one's a
48:59pretty straightforward one, but that
49:00said, it's pretty impactful. It can
49:02really make a big difference. And if
49:03you're really struggling,
49:05maybe do a partial sleep divorce.
49:07>> Okay.
49:08>> Next, sleeping in new environment. Uh
49:10this would oftentimes be called first
49:12night effect. So your first night,
49:14whether it's back home, whether it's in
49:16a hotel or somewhere else, you don't
49:19feel as comfortable and as safe. And
49:21your circadian rhythms, the things that
49:22set your timing, aren't there. This is
49:25sound. This is light. This is feel. This
49:27is temperature. This is smell. What you
49:29can do if you travel a lot, our athletes
49:32travel every 3 to 5 days, right? This is
49:34what they do. You can try to mimic your
49:36sleep environment at home on the road.
49:38Some people will take their pillows.
49:40Other things that are on the similar
49:42list are smells like lavender.
49:45Lavender is moderately associated with
49:47helping people fall asleep. None of
49:49those is going to like knock you out.
49:52>> Mhm.
49:52>> What you're looking to do is stack
49:53winds.
49:55Next is temperature. You want to be
49:57cool. Generally, you're looking at 64 to
50:0068 degrees. This is personally
50:02dependent. Um, some people actually like
50:05to be a little bit colder so that they
50:08can have a heavier blanket because they
50:09like that feeling. When this idea got
50:11popular a bunch a few years ago, people
50:13just started raking the ACs, right?
50:15You're just like, get the room as cold
50:16as you possibly can. That can become a
50:18problem because we're seeing this
50:20somewhat consistency where when people's
50:21air conditioners kick on, it actually
50:24wakes them up. And as we talked about
50:26earlier with noise, it's not necessarily
50:28always about the volume, but it's the
50:30change,
50:31>> okay,
50:32>> in sound. And so you have something
50:33kicking on, kicking off, kicking on,
50:34kicking off. The other thing we see is
50:36because of air quality situations, uh,
50:39we've seen quite often when we have
50:40environmental sensors and stuff that if
50:42your air conditioner is not clean and
50:44the fan is out in there, you can
50:45actually kick a bunch of dander and
50:47particulates and other things into the
50:49air and then you start breathing those
50:51things in it overnight and your nose
50:53starts to get a little bit stuffed up.
50:54You can't breathe through your nose and
50:55then boom, you have this hypopnic or
50:58apnneic event. The last component that
51:01comes up, you know, pretty often at
51:03absolute rest is fans. This can make
51:06your mouth dry. So, if you're waking up
51:09with that and you're like, "Ah, I got to
51:10get a drink of water or something." Um,
51:12then maybe consider not having the fan
51:14blow directly out your face.
51:15>> An interesting thing I was thinking
51:16about there, which is there was the uh
51:18viral experiment done in 2009 by Mind
51:22Lab sleep study where they conducted um
51:24the sleep experiment at the University
51:25of Sussex. Researchers hooked men and
51:27women up to an ECG machine to measure
51:29their brain waves and played a variety
51:31of ambient sounds while they slept to
51:34see which noises triggered an immediate
51:36wake response. And the top wake
51:39responses from men and women was
51:40completely different. Men's top trigger
51:42was a car alarm. Women's top trigger was
51:44a baby crying. Men's top trigger was
51:47wind howling outside. Uh women's second
51:50top trigger, I should say, is a dripping
51:52tap. Yeah.
51:54>> Men's third top is buzzing or flying of
51:56a mosquito. Uh women's was um shouting
52:00outside. And both of their fourth top
52:02trigger was snoring. But it was
52:04interesting that the thing that woke
52:07most men, their top trigger in that
52:08study was an alarm outside, but women's
52:10was a baby's crying. Yeah. Every mother
52:13out there is gone. Yep. It's in in fact
52:15one of the largest causes of sleep
52:17disorders in women is having children.
52:20what happens after child birth and and
52:22it's a whole interesting field to hear
52:23of uh postpartum care is really poor in
52:26women like we just sort of like start
52:28paying attention to baby stop paying
52:30attention to mom as soon as baby comes
52:31out well I'm saying that because it is
52:34obvious and clear that the last
52:36trimester can present a lot of sleep
52:38challenges for women and then especially
52:39as soon as a baby's there like you're
52:41just going to have some known period of
52:42sleep deprivation whether it's delivery
52:44or having a newborn all that stuff and
52:47that can actually cause patterns this
52:49can cause insomnia. This can cause
52:51irregular sleep schedules, circadian
52:53disorders, natural things. Totally fine.
52:55In some percentage of women, those
52:58patterns will persist. And so, you'll
52:59see women who have sleep disorders, even
53:01with adult children that started because
53:04of the child birth. We were advocating
53:07at all times like, yeah, get through it.
53:09I got two kids, you know, I've been
53:10there. But then just make sure you're
53:13you're providing care and going back to
53:14try to fix those things. And why that is
53:16difficult is because the study you just
53:18mentioned
53:19>> it's worth saying there is an
53:20evolutionary theory behind this that
53:22says you know men and women are attuned
53:24to different things. But there's also a
53:25counterargument that says the difference
53:27in who actually wakes up and who gets
53:29out of bed is often heavily driven by
53:30social roles. Parenting expectations and
53:32individual sleep depth rather than a
53:34biological inability for men to hear the
53:35baby. So how how do we close off on the
53:38subject of sleep? Is there anything that
53:40we haven't touched on that we should
53:41have touched on as it pertains to how to
53:43have incredible sleep? One thing that I
53:45think will help everyone whether you're
53:47at any of those stages free a little bit
53:49of money or you got to go the full end
53:52of the spectrum and use a hospital or a
53:54service like ours
53:56is everyone has the ability to run
53:58self-experiments. We we have a a free
54:01guide that anyone can go use and it's
54:03just a a quick tutorial about how to run
54:05your own self-experiment for sleep
54:07specifically.
54:08>> Oh, there you go. Yeah. Um so this is up
54:11and available for free on our website.
54:13Anyone can check it out. There's a lot
54:14of stuff in here we've covered. You can
54:16get more into it. But the short answer
54:17of it is we don't want to make people
54:20think sleep has to be the center of
54:23their life. I often times when sleep
54:25comes up, people start thinking, I'd
54:27love to sleep more, but I'm too busy.
54:30Hey, I'm [laughter] the same boat. Like,
54:33I can't afford to have a 12-h hour sleep
54:34routine. What we should be paying
54:36attention to is sleep resilience. Steve,
54:38I want you to be as resilient to bad
54:42sleep as possible.
54:44I don't want you optimizing your sleep
54:46because optimization turns into that
54:50giant routine before bed. I got to take
54:5212 different supplements and four
54:55different cocktails and I got if I have
54:57to do that along the way, great. The
55:00endgame though should be resilient.
55:02Meaning, you had a bad night of sleep,
55:05cool, and you still performed.
55:07We had this challenge. Flight got
55:09delayed. Great. We still executed. I
55:12want you to know how to get a good night
55:14of sleep so you can feel as refreshed as
55:16possible, execute the next day, and then
55:18get right back onto it.
55:20>> The way you get there is, and that's the
55:23way our company works, like we're just
55:24going to run a series of experiments.
55:26And everyone can do that. Start by
55:29changing one thing. Your trackers,
55:32your data are going to tell you how
55:35you're sleeping, but they're not telling
55:37you why you're sleeping that way. So,
55:38that's your quest. Go figure out why
55:40you're sleeping that way. Is it your
55:42bedroom temperature? Is it your partner?
55:45Is it the fact that you're sensitive to
55:47light? Is it the fact you're exercising
55:48too late? Are you eating too late? Like,
55:50all these things are possible.
55:53One at a time. Just like Jon Jones,
55:56where marginal improvements in your
55:58cognitive performance can have a massive
55:59impact. Sometimes I podcast for 10 hours
56:01a day. Over the last couple of weeks,
56:02I've been in filming for a TV show and I
56:05have like one or two days off to get all
56:06of my work done, which means there's
56:08lots of cognitive load. And so I turned
56:10to ketones because I find myself more
56:12articulate, able to think more clearly,
56:14able to work out better when I'm fueled
56:16by ketones. And so the reason I became a
56:19coowner of this company and the reason
56:20why they now are a sponsor of this
56:21podcast is because I remember one of my
56:23team members called Cristiana, she tried
56:24it once and came up to my desk and she
56:26goes, "This is the best product ever
56:28made." [clears throat] And I think in
56:29part that's because she really cares
56:30about those cognitive benefits as I do,
56:32as Jon Jones does, and as I think most
56:34of my listeners probably will. So if you
56:36haven't tried these yet, all you have to
56:38do is go to ketone.com/stephven,
56:42and you'll also get 30% off your first
56:43subscription order. You'll get exclusive
56:45Ketone IQ merch and of course cognitive
56:48benefits that might just change your
56:50life. If you're thinking about starting
56:52a business, one of the first decisions
56:54you'll have to make is actually one of
56:56the most important, which is where do
56:57you build that business? Our product
56:59team who manages everything we do from
57:00our conversation cards to our diaries
57:02has always used our sponsor Shopify.
57:06There are a few reasons for this, but
57:07one of the big ones is that when you're
57:09running a business, you really need your
57:11own store and your own customer data.
57:13And Shopify gives you exactly that. You
57:15aren't renting space from someone else's
57:17platform, hoping the rules don't
57:18suddenly change. And you avoid the
57:20classic founder challenges that
57:21inevitably come, like sorting out
57:23payments and logistics and storefronts,
57:25because it's already built into Shopify.
57:27Those early days are messy enough
57:28without the infrastructure challenge to
57:31create extra problems for you. And
57:33Shopify's distribution piece is
57:34underrated, too, because your products
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57:38Google, Tik Tok, YouTube, ChatGBT, which
57:40again isn't something you have to figure
57:42out yourself. It's just already built
57:44into their platform. If you are serious
57:46about starting your own thing, start
57:47your free trial at shopify.com/bartlet.
57:52I guess one could argue that the
57:53antithesis of sleep is being awake. And
57:56when we're awake, the thing we care
57:57about is energy. Now, [snorts] I had a
58:00really great conversation on this
58:01podcast with um several people that talk
58:04about mitochondria and energy and those
58:06kinds of things. And some some of those
58:08conversations have really really changed
58:09me. If you hadn't haven't listened to
58:10the more recent conversation we had on
58:12um mitochondria on the channel, please
58:14do go listen to it.
58:15>> Martin Peard.
58:16>> Martin Peard. It was a really honestly
58:18it's one of my favorite conversations
58:19I've had this year just because I've I
58:21knew about the mitochondria like I I
58:22conceptually knew what it was but I
58:24hadn't thought about it as being so
58:29central to everything in my life because
58:32energy is essential to everything in my
58:34life like my relationships, my ability
58:36to do this, my my joy, my everything. If
58:39someone is trying to improve their
58:41energy levels and that's what they come
58:42to you with in terms of a symptom that
58:44they self-describe, where do you aim?
58:46Okay, we talked about sleep, but where
58:48else do you aim?
58:50>> Energy is
58:52probably the number one thing on our
58:53list of reasons people come to us.
58:55>> What do they say?
58:56>> I'm tired all day, can't figure it out,
58:58or I don't have the energy I used to
59:01have, or I can't sustain output like I
59:04used to. Whether this is physical, uh,
59:06my recovery is longer than it used to
59:08be, or I just can't hang working as many
59:10hours as I used to do, I get fatigued at
59:13the end of the day cognitively, I'm not
59:15of the camp that this is entirely
59:17mitochondria. But I certainly will agree
59:19that energy would be the number one. In
59:20fact, probably the most common question
59:22I've ever got in my career is what
59:23separates these world performers from
59:25the rest of us? And people want me to
59:28say things like they work harder. They
59:31they don't. They are categorically
59:34though better at energy management.
59:36That is the one thing that seems to be
59:38most consistent again with the world's
59:40highest performers, athletes,
59:42entrepreneurs, leaders, executives, you
59:45name it, however you're defining
59:47success. When you get better at managing
59:49energy,
59:51you're more effective. This is
59:53everything from cellular energy to
59:56understanding things like your own
59:58interpersonal communication.
1:00:00What type of relationships give you
1:00:01energy? What type of relationships take
1:00:04energy from you? What type of activities
1:00:06give you energy? What types give you
1:00:07back? When can you be more efficient?
1:00:09When are you running for the sake of
1:00:11running and not actually running in a
1:00:12direction? And I mean this figuratively,
1:00:14not literally.
1:00:16This is all energy management. And what
1:00:18you'll see is these people are
1:00:19world-class performers. get incredibly
1:00:21good at going 80% of my energy suck
1:00:24comes out of here for 20% ROI. I'm going
1:00:26to switch that out. They're better at
1:00:28choosing what matters and what doesn't
1:00:29matter.
1:00:30>> Okay?
1:00:30>> And this is everything from what
1:00:31supplement is working to what type of
1:00:34person that they work with. Where people
1:00:36struggle is in the like what if I could
1:00:38also be doing this? What if I could also
1:00:40be doing this? What if I add this on
1:00:41top? What if I add this on top?
1:00:42>> Okay. So, I thought you were talking
1:00:43about um I guess if I try and put this
1:00:46into some sort of analogy or metaphor,
1:00:48>> the high performers wake up with 100
1:00:51energy chips, let's say, and they're
1:00:53really really good at allocating them
1:00:55against the most important thing.
1:00:56>> Yes.
1:00:57>> Whereas maybe Jenny and Dave listening
1:00:59kind of let it seep out. They put 20 on
1:01:01Instagram, 20 over here on this
1:01:03>> and they spin their wheels.
1:01:04>> They spin their wheels.
1:01:05>> They go, "Okay, great. I'm going to I
1:01:08listen to this podcast and I got super
1:01:10excited about zone 2. I'm going to go
1:01:12hop into a bunch of zone too. And then I
1:01:13listen to this other podcast and I get
1:01:14super excited about journaling. Let me
1:01:17go add journaling to my mix.
1:01:19>> And then what ends up happening is you
1:01:20see their daily routine and you're like,
1:01:23"Okay, your daily routine is 20 hours."
1:01:25And then at some point like you didn't
1:01:27actually do anything that mattered. What
1:01:29is the one thing that can get you to
1:01:31that goal in the most effective way
1:01:34possible? And then everything else has
1:01:36to actively be stripped away. So the
1:01:39traditional thing we like to do is we
1:01:41give one to two what we call active
1:01:44movements per week which is this is
1:01:47something Stephen you have to actively
1:01:48remember to do. You don't actively
1:01:51remember to brush your teeth. You don't
1:01:52have to actively remember to shower blah
1:01:54blah blah. You might at this point not
1:01:55have to actively think about your
1:01:57gratitude practice or your meditation
1:01:59time. Like you probably have these
1:02:00things you've been doing for years,
1:02:01right? I don't actually call those
1:02:03additive because you you do those.
1:02:04You're going to get those in. But I
1:02:06might ask you to do one thing different.
1:02:08I don't know what that would be, but I I
1:02:09would look at this and say, "Here's your
1:02:11constraint. I'm not going to ask you to
1:02:13do five things new. It's too difficult.
1:02:16Maybe this is a change in what time you
1:02:18eat."
1:02:18>> Okay?
1:02:19>> Your training style. Find what's
1:02:22constraining you from your energy.
1:02:24>> What things could it be?
1:02:25>> It could be sleep. It could be
1:02:26mismanagement of relationships. It could
1:02:28be you're working too much. It could be
1:02:30you're under fueling. You're not eating
1:02:32enough. It could be that you're
1:02:34overusing stimulants. sleeping poor and
1:02:36you're in that cycle, right? It could be
1:02:38you're not seeing sunlight. So, what you
1:02:40need to do is run a a quick analysis and
1:02:43think what is the single biggest thing
1:02:44in your way. Is it the fact that you're
1:02:47in pain?
1:02:49Great. Maybe the only one thing I want
1:02:50you to go after then is
1:02:53let's go figure out why that knee hurts.
1:02:55>> Okay. So, for me, you've seen my blood
1:02:56results.
1:02:57>> Yeah.
1:02:57>> So, what things might improve my energy
1:02:59from the blood results that you saw?
1:03:01>> What are you mid-30s? Early 30s. and 33.
1:03:05>> 33. All right. [snorts] You're lean,
1:03:07you're active. The first thing that
1:03:09jumps out on your report.
1:03:11>> Yeah. Can we skip that?
1:03:12>> I think uh [laughter] skip the page.
1:03:15You're going to see quickly the
1:03:16difference between medicine and
1:03:17performance.
1:03:18>> Okay. Um this is medical. So, we're
1:03:21looking at cholesterol and cholesterol
1:03:23related markers. You've got I don't know
1:03:25a dozen of them or so there. Not one's
1:03:27good.
1:03:29>> This is incredibly actionable.
1:03:31>> Can I ask a question about this? what
1:03:33what does it mean? And then I was going
1:03:35to ask a secondary question which is I
1:03:37was going to try and self diagnose why I
1:03:38think this is the case but
1:03:39>> I would love that second question
1:03:40that'll actually tell us where to go. So
1:03:42when you look at things like blood work
1:03:43these are secondary measures of
1:03:45physiology. They're trying to predict
1:03:47what I what we'll call an outcome.
1:03:49Meaning in this case we are looking at
1:03:50your heart health.
1:03:52>> Okay.
1:03:53>> There is an association and I choose
1:03:55that word carefully between cholesterol
1:03:57and cardiovascular disease.
1:03:59>> Okay. High cholesterol, low cholesterol,
1:04:01good cholesterol. All the above. Very
1:04:05traditionally, excessively high
1:04:07cholesterol is going to be associated
1:04:09with earlier heart disease, heart
1:04:11attack, could even manifest itself into
1:04:13strokes and things like that, right? So,
1:04:16if we were to just like zoom all the way
1:04:18out and we say, "All right, your
1:04:19cholesterol is extremely high. I'm
1:04:21concerned about your heart health."
1:04:23>> There's way more to the story, but at
1:04:26the top of it, that's where we're at.
1:04:28So, the second question I was going to
1:04:30ask is at the time that I did these
1:04:32blood test results, I was frequently in
1:04:34a ketogenic diet.
1:04:35>> I know there's a lot to unpack here and
1:04:37a lot of people are going to get mad
1:04:39online. Cholesterol has lifestyle,
1:04:42dietary, and familial causes. Often
1:04:46times, you might have high cholesterol
1:04:48and all these various markers simply
1:04:50because that's a familial genetic
1:04:51inheritance and there's not a lot of
1:04:53action behind it. When you see these
1:04:55things independent of obesity, now we
1:04:57have a different connotation. If I were
1:04:58to look at all this stuff and go, "Oh,
1:04:59yeah, sure. You're 35% body fat. I know
1:05:02you drink alcohol." Then I'm like,
1:05:04"Okay, this is true, but let's tackle
1:05:06those things first because those have so
1:05:09many robust implications on your
1:05:10health." That's the starting place. You
1:05:13don't drink alcohol excessively. I don't
1:05:15even know if you drink alcohol at all
1:05:17and haven't in years, I assume, right?
1:05:19You don't smoke. You don't like I know.
1:05:21So, all those things are checked off the
1:05:23list. This means this is actionable.
1:05:24>> I should give you some context here. My
1:05:26uncle died of a heart attack and my dad
1:05:27had a heart operation last week.
1:05:29>> Ooh.
1:05:30>> So,
1:05:30>> do you remember what kind of heart
1:05:31operation?
1:05:32>> He had a pacemaker put in. Um,
1:05:35>> but he's been on statins, I think, for
1:05:38>> to lower his cholesterol.
1:05:39>> A long time. I think he's been on
1:05:40statins for about 15 years if I was to
1:05:42guess. About 15 20 years.
1:05:44>> Yeah. So, when I look at this
1:05:46independent of your obesity with your
1:05:48familial history, do you remember what
1:05:49advice you got when you got these
1:05:51results of what to do? Do
1:05:52>> you know I did two two um tests. I did
1:05:55this one with Function Health, who I
1:05:57believe are a sponsor, so I should say
1:05:58that. Um, and I did the second one with
1:06:00Nico Health,
1:06:01>> where I'm a big investor in the company.
1:06:03They both said to me like, "Steve, stop
1:06:05eating steak all the time. Um, bacon,
1:06:07stop eating bacon all the time." The way
1:06:09that I heard it was, damn, this
1:06:11ketogenic diet you've been on, Steve,
1:06:12you need to just take it easy.
1:06:14>> And have you done blood work since then?
1:06:16>> No.
1:06:17>> All right. First thing that would pop up
1:06:19and this is the order I would do this
1:06:20in. When you get something like blood
1:06:22work,
1:06:23the value is not in the data. The value
1:06:27is in the interpretation. What they're
1:06:29talking about why you heard that as
1:06:31steak, butter, bacon is because those
1:06:34are food items high in saturated fat.
1:06:37Saturated fat is not evil. There are no
1:06:40evil foods. It's only evil context.
1:06:42Right? So in your particular case, if we
1:06:44saw those and we don't have this, but if
1:06:47we had your baseline
1:06:49before that test and then we had this
1:06:52and we went, okay, when you change your
1:06:54diet and increased your saturated fat
1:06:55intake and then we saw these numbers
1:06:57increase,
1:06:58most ethical people in this space would
1:07:00look at that and say that's not a
1:07:01positive thing. That does not mean
1:07:03ketogenic diets are bad or unsafe. Not
1:07:07at all. It only means if we had those
1:07:09theoretical data for you, it's probably
1:07:12not healthy. You stack that on top of
1:07:14the fact that you have your uncle and
1:07:15your dad in there. Then I would triple
1:07:17down and go talk to your doctor. I'm not
1:07:20your medical doctor, but I'd be really
1:07:22concerned about that. Then what I would
1:07:25do would be go to the next step. Let's
1:07:26run the experiment and see. This is an
1:07:29indirect marker. And remember, what is
1:07:31it trying to predict? Your heart health.
1:07:34Have you had your heart scanned?
1:07:36>> Yes, I have. And
1:07:37>> they said that I had like I had a thick
1:07:40wall.
1:07:40>> Okay. Exercise induced cardiac
1:07:43remodeling
1:07:45if especially if it's left ventricular.
1:07:47>> It's a good thing. Right. So your heart
1:07:48has four chambers. Two on top, two on
1:07:50bottom. The two on the top are called
1:07:51atria.
1:07:52>> Uhhuh.
1:07:53>> Ventricles on the bottom. Oh, you got a
1:07:54great image there as well. Yeah. So you
1:07:56can look at this as a maze. Okay. So
1:07:59we'll use double modeling here. Can you
1:08:01see how the left ventricle
1:08:05is much larger than the right ventricle?
1:08:07>> Mhm.
1:08:07>> There's a reason. The right ventricle
1:08:09only has to kick blood to your lungs.
1:08:12>> Yeah.
1:08:12>> Which are, you know, physically
1:08:14>> quite close
1:08:15>> a few inches away. The left ventricle
1:08:18has to kick it up out through your
1:08:21entire body down to the tip of your toes
1:08:23all the way back up against gravity and
1:08:25then back up into your heart. Mhm.
1:08:28>> And so what you're seeing here is
1:08:30strength training. This is resistance
1:08:32exercise. Your left ventricle is lifting
1:08:33weights. It has to be bigger. It has to
1:08:36be stronger so that it can contract
1:08:37really hard and shoot all that blood up
1:08:40and down and up and out. If you said you
1:08:43had a thicker wall either naturally or
1:08:46exercise induced, just like when you
1:08:48lift with your biceps more, it's larger.
1:08:51The same thing is happening your left
1:08:52ventricle. Incredibly common and healthy
1:08:55adaptation. Okay.
1:08:57>> What we would be concerned about is if
1:08:59there was any type of blockage
1:09:02or any type of plaque buildup.
1:09:05>> One of the things that I remember them
1:09:07saying is they, again, I'm going to
1:09:09butcher this, but they told me there's
1:09:10kind of like two types of plaque build
1:09:11up in my veins or my arteries, whatever.
1:09:13And they said, "The bad type you haven't
1:09:16got."
1:09:17>> And they said, "But the other type you
1:09:21have got." And they I think they were
1:09:22referring to like the bad type as being
1:09:23like more sticky.
1:09:24>> Yeah. and it like doesn't go,
1:09:26>> it'll dislodge.
1:09:27>> Oh, okay. And that can cause a risk.
1:09:29>> Yeah.
1:09:29>> They said I didn't have the bad type,
1:09:31but I had this other type that can is
1:09:32like temporary, but could turn into the
1:09:34bad type or something.
1:09:35>> Yeah. One thing you want to be really
1:09:36careful of, and this happened to a dear
1:09:38friend of mine, Joel Jameson, young,
1:09:40super fit, all the things. No stress,
1:09:43doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, much like
1:09:44you, all this stuff. Family history.
1:09:46>> Mhm.
1:09:47>> Didn't think about it. Blood work came
1:09:49back totally fine. still asked to get a
1:09:52CT angiogram scan of his heart. His
1:09:55cardiologist said, "No, you don't need
1:09:57it. You're young. You're all the thing."
1:09:58Got it anyways. And he had a I think he
1:10:00had a 50% blockage of his what's called
1:10:02a widowmaker.
1:10:04You're flipping the dice whether you're
1:10:05going to die here, right? So, this is a
1:10:06classic case to me where he's doing all
1:10:08the right things, but imaging saved his
1:10:10life. Let's not live in fear. Let's go
1:10:12look. He went had a looked. I'll just
1:10:14trust your physicians. Great. then I'm
1:10:17less worried about this because this
1:10:19could be a direct response to your
1:10:21ketogenic diet, which it almost
1:10:22certainly was. And if it's presenting no
1:10:25risk to the place we actually care
1:10:26about, then I'm less concerned about
1:10:28your cholesterol.
1:10:29>> But is if it carries on like this, could
1:10:31it create a risk?
1:10:32>> Absolutely could.
1:10:32>> Okay. Cuz they all did tell me to fix
1:10:34this.
1:10:35>> Yeah. Just keep getting it scanned every
1:10:36few years and if you see any aggress any
1:10:38any buildup at all, then I would manage
1:10:39it.
1:10:40>> Okay.
1:10:40>> Now, in what you're seeing over here is
1:10:42that client of ours. And so as an
1:10:45example, I'll give you a specific
1:10:46number. His total cholesterol was 347.
1:10:50We got him down to 223.
1:10:51>> What did you do?
1:10:52>> Fiber.
1:10:53>> Why fiber?
1:10:54>> Stress reduction. Fiber, depending on
1:10:57the type of cholesterol, will actually
1:10:59bind to the cholesterol and clear it
1:11:00from the system.
1:11:01>> You will physically reduce it.
1:11:02>> That's why they one of the supplements I
1:11:04was told to take is a fiber supplement.
1:11:06>> It's not always going to solve
1:11:08something. And I want to be really
1:11:09clear.
1:11:11If you have numbers like you had, you
1:11:13need to work with a doctor. and you need
1:11:14to get screened. Don't just be like, I
1:11:16took Fiber. I'm fine. This guy said on a
1:11:18podcast. That's not what I'm saying. But
1:11:19it is, it can be effective. The other
1:11:21thing we did was massive stress
1:11:22reduction. Guy was a a very hard
1:11:24charging CEO for a large company.
1:11:26>> How is stress reduction going to impact
1:11:27my cholesterol?
1:11:28>> Things like cholesterol can be what are
1:11:30called acute phase reactants, some parts
1:11:32of them, not all of them. Meaning it
1:11:34responds to acute stress and stimuli.
1:11:36When you look at things like blood work,
1:11:38they aren't static. They are responding
1:11:40to the entire system. And so if you were
1:11:42to be stressed, and we not to blame
1:11:44anything on cortisol, but cortisol is
1:11:46elevated. You are in a uh heightened
1:11:48alert state. This causes short-term
1:11:51inflammation. In fact, if you look at I
1:11:53think your inflammation was a little bit
1:11:55um nuts over there. Oh, this guy as
1:11:56well. Probably like your most classic
1:11:59inflammation marker is called CRP. His
1:12:03was at two, which is really high. We got
1:12:05him from two to 2. So 10x reduction that
1:12:08then allowed cholesterol to normalize.
1:12:10Um the the easiest most technical way to
1:12:13get to say it is it's an acute phase
1:12:14reactant. Meaning it will change in
1:12:16response acutely to inflammation. Some
1:12:19markers will go up and some will go down
1:12:21in response to that like like D like
1:12:22vitamin D goes down
1:12:24>> if what if you
1:12:25>> in a a stressed environment. Some go up,
1:12:28some go down. Blood glucose goes up.
1:12:30>> So you got stressed down, you got his
1:12:31fiber up.
1:12:32>> And that took him from 347 to 223, which
1:12:35is still high. Went from 223 to 163. Now
1:12:38that took a statin.
1:12:40>> Oh. Obviously you did give him a statin.
1:12:41>> We didn't but his medical team did.
1:12:43>> Okay.
1:12:44>> And so this I why I want to draw this
1:12:46point out is we were able to go a long
1:12:48ways with lifestyle.
1:12:52But he wanted to go more. He wanted to
1:12:53be green green green.
1:12:56So that's when medicine came in. And I
1:12:59to me this represents a a great marriage
1:13:01of the two. Some people are very anti-
1:13:04medicine. Some people are that's not my
1:13:06decision. That's up to you and your
1:13:07medical provider. But I think it's it's
1:13:09it's unfair to tell people things like
1:13:12all of it can be done with lifestyle and
1:13:15there's no need for medicines ever or
1:13:17the opposite of just like oh just take
1:13:18the drug don't worry about it. He needed
1:13:21all of it. He needed stress reduction.
1:13:23He needed some changes in his diet and
1:13:25that made a huge change in his
1:13:27biological health. So if you were to be
1:13:29like look this is so complicated this
1:13:31guy like how can I make actional advice
1:13:33of all this stuff this guy's saying I
1:13:34don't have a private doctor and cool
1:13:36just run the experiment. Try more fiber.
1:13:38try to regulate your stress. If you want
1:13:40to go the opposite route and jump right
1:13:42into the the medical side, that's fine,
1:13:43too. Um, but it doesn't need to be super
1:13:46scary or super daunting because these
1:13:48are not like especially if your heart
1:13:50has been scanned. I'm not concerned
1:13:51about an acute emergency.
1:13:53>> The two things on here that I thought
1:13:54were were shocking to me are my my
1:13:58vitamin D levels and my omega levels,
1:14:00which I was told were deficient.
1:14:02>> Yep.
1:14:03>> I thought I was smashing it with those
1:14:04two cuz I think I was living in LA at
1:14:06the time and
1:14:07>> Yeah. So your vitamin D was borderline
1:14:09low. Fairly traditionally people of
1:14:13African heritage are going to be lower
1:14:14in that marker.
1:14:15>> Okay.
1:14:16>> You're at 37.
1:14:18Kind of lower end of that number is 40.
1:14:21That might actually be fine.
1:14:22>> I think I heard you say something about
1:14:24vitamin D. Again, I don't want to
1:14:25butcher your words if this wasn't what
1:14:26you said, but you kind of make the
1:14:28assumption that most people are
1:14:29deficient.
1:14:30>> Yeah, it is true.
1:14:30>> Why does it matter?
1:14:31>> So vitamin D is a nice microcosm of
1:14:35overall health. So what I mean by that
1:14:36is you will tend to see people low in
1:14:38vitamin D who are also tending to make
1:14:40poor health choices. So it's a little
1:14:41bit like grip strength and all that
1:14:43where it's kind of a one snap shot at
1:14:46saying are you generally healthy or not?
1:14:49Why is it needed specifically? It is
1:14:52involved in every reaction from your
1:14:55brain to your gut to your hormones, your
1:14:57immune system, metabolism and everything
1:15:00in between. It's critical to maintaining
1:15:02bone health. that's critical to being
1:15:03able to grow skeletal muscle. It's also
1:15:07clinically low in a high percentage of
1:15:09the population and even subcl clinically
1:15:11low in a vast majority of the
1:15:13population.
1:15:14>> So, should we be supplementing if we are
1:15:15low?
1:15:16>> The real world will always win. Whole
1:15:18foods, sunlight, positive social
1:15:20environments. That's always the place to
1:15:22start. So, do you want to supplement
1:15:24with it? That's up to you. I would much
1:15:26rather you get sunlight if possible.
1:15:28Now, enter everyone in the chat going,
1:15:29"I live in the UK. There's no sun. sort
1:15:32of up here. Fine. If you want to choose
1:15:35a supplement um because you live in
1:15:37those situations, then that's absolutely
1:15:39fine.
1:15:39>> Or I work in an office for 12 hours a
1:15:41day. It's it's interesting because there
1:15:42is a bit of a paradox here in we're all
1:15:44in search of very natural solutions in a
1:15:47very unnatural way of living. I had this
1:15:50conversation with my fiance a couple of
1:15:51couple of weeks back about a few things
1:15:52where in one area of our life we're
1:15:54trying to be really really natural.
1:15:56>> Y
1:15:57>> um [laughter]
1:15:58>> but I'm like babe like look at the rest
1:16:00of our lives. so unnatural. We get on
1:16:02planes and have these smartphones and
1:16:03and so almost forcing this one part to
1:16:05be natural is
1:16:07>> arguably going to cause a bit of a
1:16:08problem.
1:16:08>> I mean, it happens to me, right? Like
1:16:10I'll
1:16:11put in the entire hours of the day and
1:16:13not even realize I didn't step outside.
1:16:15>> Yeah,
1:16:15>> it absolutely happens.
1:16:17>> So, what I think you have to do is
1:16:19number one, give yourself grace, right?
1:16:21Like you're not going to be perfect. I'm
1:16:22especially thinking about like single
1:16:24parents. It's just like you're not going
1:16:26to go out and spend 30 minutes in the
1:16:27sun.
1:16:27>> Night shift workers.
1:16:28>> Totally. Boy, that's a really hard
1:16:30thing. Um, we've dealt with a lot of
1:16:31nurses and surgeons and things like that
1:16:33where you're on call, you're out. And
1:16:35that's when we can lean towards modern
1:16:37medicine, modern supplementation. It
1:16:39that's why those things are not trash.
1:16:40They're not garbage. They're not fake.
1:16:42Our strategy typically is that's can we
1:16:44find one actionable thing, one thing
1:16:46that you're doing as a focus that is
1:16:48something you got to go out of your way
1:16:49and do. And that might be you have to go
1:16:52outside today. You have that might be
1:16:54your one thing to pay attention to. When
1:16:56you start asking for more than one to
1:16:57two active things per week, you start
1:17:00end up failing.
1:17:01>> Okay, fine.
1:17:01>> So, with your omegas, so your omega
1:17:04score at five is low.
1:17:07>> Mhm.
1:17:07>> You want that to be eight. But you
1:17:08probably didn't notice your mercury was
1:17:10right on the line of high as well. Those
1:17:12things will typically track. The more
1:17:15omega-3s you consume, the more mercury
1:17:17goes up.
1:17:18>> Oh, really?
1:17:19>> Because most omega-3 sources
1:17:22are going to be filled with mercury. But
1:17:24I was low omega and high mercury.
1:17:26>> So what that tells us is if you were to
1:17:29jack your omega-3s up, your mercury is
1:17:32going to get into the line that we don't
1:17:34want it to be in. So solution,
1:17:38you need to alter the source of your
1:17:40omega-3s. Get it from a higher quality
1:17:42place. So I'm not sure where you were
1:17:43getting them from there.
1:17:44>> All over the place.
1:17:45>> Yeah. But you would want to to either
1:17:47choose your supplement more carefully or
1:17:50choose better quality foods. What
1:17:52actually moves the needle on this
1:17:53subject of energy, which is what we're
1:17:54talking about here. Is there anything
1:17:56that is more consequential as it relates
1:17:59to these people that are trying to get
1:18:01more energy in their life? They feel
1:18:02lethargic. We talked about sleep as
1:18:03being a real foundation here.
1:18:05>> If you're looking for more energy, I
1:18:06would divide everything into two
1:18:07buckets. Hidden stressors and visible
1:18:10stressors. Visible stressors are things
1:18:12like you're not exercising. We know from
1:18:16excellent databases, physical exercise
1:18:20enhances energy. Why? And how?
1:18:22>> Mitochondrial health is one of the many
1:18:24aspects of it.
1:18:25>> You'll have more mitochondria if you
1:18:28exercise more.
1:18:29>> Generally, not only will you have more,
1:18:31they'll be larger and they'll be
1:18:32healthier.
1:18:32>> And mitochondria basically process your
1:18:34energy. So, you get more efficient
1:18:36energy production.
1:18:36>> They're one of the ways you can make it.
1:18:38You can make energy a lot of different
1:18:39ways. It is the end path of all aerobic
1:18:42exercise. So, in other words, anytime
1:18:44you're using oxygen as a byproduct to
1:18:46make fuel, mitochondria have to be
1:18:48there. So, it is central and core to
1:18:50that. Um, but it is more than
1:18:51mitochondria. You'll have more total
1:18:53blood
1:18:54>> if you exercise.
1:18:55>> Yes.
1:18:56>> It's one of the primary adaptations to
1:18:57endurance is you'll physically have more
1:18:59blood in your body
1:19:00>> and that will mean
1:19:01>> you carry more oxygen.
1:19:02>> Oh, okay.
1:19:03>> You have more red blood cells.
1:19:05>> So, you're able to carry more oxygen to
1:19:07fuel those mitochondria.
1:19:09>> Is that a certain type of exercise that
1:19:11gives you more?
1:19:12>> Generally, anything that demands blood
1:19:13flow will increase blood supply.
1:19:17>> Cardiovascular exercise
1:19:18>> can be can be anything.
1:19:19>> Okay. Stress equals adaptation. Meaning,
1:19:22if you put a demand on your heart to
1:19:23pump more blood, it'll get better at
1:19:25pumping more blood. If you put a demand
1:19:26on bone to resist tension, it'll get
1:19:29better at resisting tension. You run the
1:19:32whole cascade of connective tissue to
1:19:35cellular health. It is simply what's
1:19:38called the said principle. S A I D,
1:19:40specific adaptation to imposed demand.
1:19:43And also is it fair to say then if we
1:19:45take the word exercise out of the
1:19:47traditional definition which is like in
1:19:49a gym doing a thing and we broaden it to
1:19:51work [snorts] or just you know cognitive
1:19:55performance. Remember exercise is a
1:19:57novel madeup term. This is a new thing
1:20:00to us. Historically humans have carried,
1:20:03have sprinted, have jumped, have
1:20:04climbed, have grappled, have done all
1:20:06those things. putting that into a
1:20:08structured non-aily activity is a last
1:20:1275 year phenomenon, right? It wasn't
1:20:14actually until we started to realize
1:20:16that stress reduction to the end of the
1:20:19limit is a bad thing and then we had to
1:20:21recreate stress into our lives. One form
1:20:23of that was we call that exercise. So
1:20:25yes, if you think about exercise as
1:20:28either running, cycling, swimming or
1:20:30lifting weights, you have left a bunch
1:20:33on the table. I don't care how you're
1:20:35challenging yourself. Even if that
1:20:37structured exercise in your example is
1:20:39more vocationally based,
1:20:41>> it's the stress being provided to the
1:20:43system. And so when you start to look at
1:20:45things like what's the best exercise
1:20:46protocol for AB and C, one of the things
1:20:48you start to realize is all of them can
1:20:50have equal responses given a few
1:20:54constraints and if they hit that
1:20:55constraint, they work. So if you have a
1:20:58movement practice, you skateboard, you
1:21:00play pickle, you walk, you garden, fine.
1:21:03All those can have equal clinical
1:21:05outcomes.
1:21:06mortality, joint pain, body composition
1:21:09because they're getting to the same
1:21:11spot.
1:21:12>> Does this make sense then? So, if I'm
1:21:14say I'm a podcaster and I want to have
1:21:16more energy to podcast,
1:21:17>> Yeah.
1:21:17>> I should podcast more.
1:21:19>> Yeah. You'll be more resilient, right?
1:21:20>> Okay. So, you could apply that to sort
1:21:22of any vocation or activity. If I want
1:21:24to have more energy to
1:21:26uh lift my kids up and run with them in
1:21:29the garden, then I should lift things
1:21:31and run with them.
1:21:33>> Stress inoculation. And then in the
1:21:34future my body will adapt and it will
1:21:36give me more energy for that particular
1:21:37activity.
1:21:37>> Yep.
1:21:38>> So sometimes when people say they don't
1:21:39have energy for a thing, it's because
1:21:41they haven't challenged themselves in
1:21:43that particular activity enough to
1:21:46expand and adapt.
1:21:47>> It's it's really difficult, right? So if
1:21:49if walking up the stairs is a V2 max
1:21:52test for you, how likely are you to walk
1:21:55upstairs? Oh,
1:21:56>> okay. So it's like a downward spiral.
1:21:57It's
1:21:58>> too difficult, right? So then what
1:21:59happens?
1:21:59>> You don't do it
1:22:00>> and you get
1:22:01>> Yeah. less good at it.
1:22:02>> Able to do it, right? Yeah.
1:22:03>> So when we start thinking about energy
1:22:05and I started talking about like hidden
1:22:06visible stressors, right? I'm looking
1:22:08for constraints. Do you have an
1:22:11undiagnosed pathogen in your body? We
1:22:13have a major league baseball player.
1:22:16Felt horrific. I'm talking like can't
1:22:18make it through a baseball game. Legs
1:22:20are shot. No energy whatsoever. In his
1:22:24particular case, we were able to confirm
1:22:26in his blood, in his physical bedroom,
1:22:30and with a bunch of other tests for
1:22:32actually you test his eyes and you test
1:22:34a bunch of other stuff. He had a very
1:22:36gnarly exposure to mold.
1:22:38>> Oh yeah.
1:22:39>> All we had to do in large part was get
1:22:42that cleared and his energy came back.
1:22:44That's an example of a hidden stressor.
1:22:46But one of the things we're always
1:22:47looking for is are you an energy
1:22:48toxicity? Meaning, are you eating too
1:22:50many calories, which is not the same as
1:22:52being obese, or are you in low energy
1:22:55availability? You're sleeping fine, but
1:22:57you're of low energy.
1:23:00Are you eating enough calories? Oh,
1:23:01you're not. Like, we have to go no
1:23:03further on this train. You are
1:23:04underfueled for what you're asking. So,
1:23:07there's things that are hidden stressors
1:23:08like that. There are visible stressors,
1:23:11which we just talked about. Like, you're
1:23:12not actually doing the thing. Another
1:23:13easy way to explain this is cognitively.
1:23:16If you want to write a book and you
1:23:19don't currently write and you sit down
1:23:21to write, it's going to be exhausting.
1:23:23>> Mhm.
1:23:24>> And then you talk to a writer and
1:23:25there's like, oh yeah, like I I need 45
1:23:27minutes so I can crank out a thousand
1:23:28words.
1:23:29>> Mhm.
1:23:29>> It's like not exhausting at all. Right.
1:23:31Stress inoculation. This is exactly what
1:23:32you said before. You can build up
1:23:34endurance in those things by them.
1:23:37>> This is one of the things I've learned
1:23:38from this podcast and meeting all these
1:23:40exceptional people is um this like use
1:23:42it or lose it principle.
1:23:43>> Oh yeah. you know, because I'm getting
1:23:45older and you start to feel the odd
1:23:46pain,
1:23:47>> you know, and so you start to like not
1:23:49use that part, you know, your back for
1:23:51example.
1:23:52>> Yeah.
1:23:52>> Or bending down and so you find ways to
1:23:55not bend down properly so you can avoid
1:23:57the pain.
1:23:58>> And what's happening there is because
1:23:59something is difficult, you do it less,
1:24:01which then means it becomes more
1:24:03difficult. So you do it less and there's
1:24:04this downward feedback loop to decline.
1:24:07>> Atrophy leads to atrophy.
1:24:09>> Yeah. And like, you know, I think the
1:24:10critical idea that got in my head a
1:24:12couple of years ago from someone I was
1:24:13interviewing on the podcast was that
1:24:16aging isn't always the excuse. And I
1:24:18think we assume it's just aging so we
1:24:21accept it and we don't fight back.
1:24:23>> When I sat here with one of the
1:24:25exceptional PhDs that I interviewed, she
1:24:27showed me I think it was a DEXA scan of
1:24:29a 70-year-old.
1:24:30>> It was like a pentathlete and then a
1:24:33DEXA scan of someone that was like 30
1:24:34years old. And this 70-year-old was just
1:24:38phenomenal. Yeah. Their their sort of
1:24:40bone, their muscle, etc. And she
1:24:41basically proved to me. I'll put up the
1:24:43scan on the screen. It really is a
1:24:44mind-blowing scan. I've actually sent it
1:24:45to my best friends because it really did
1:24:47I couldn't I couldn't get this idea out
1:24:48of my head that actually don't accept
1:24:50everything as an aging problem because
1:24:51the minute you do, you go on this
1:24:53downward cycle. And it blew my mind. And
1:24:55that was such an important idea to get
1:24:56in my head at my age at 30 years old. So
1:24:58when I feel like a pain in my back, my
1:25:00my solution isn't, oh, okay, Stephen,
1:25:02you're getting older. stop bending down
1:25:04and protect the pain. It is go to the
1:25:06gym and start squatting and bending etc.
1:25:09There are some things that will go down
1:25:10with age. Sleep is actually one of them.
1:25:13We typically just see you will sleep a
1:25:15little bit less as you age. Fine. There
1:25:17are some aspects of that but I think you
1:25:19can resist and fight as much of that as
1:25:20possible. This is actually you're seeing
1:25:23a turning of a tide right now that just
1:25:25starting to emerge with longevity.
1:25:28longevity is currently being positioned
1:25:30as this anti-aging
1:25:32phenomenon and people are already bored.
1:25:35[laughter] Like, is your goal to just
1:25:37not age or is your goal to dunk a
1:25:41basketball at 70? Do you want to have
1:25:43the 4x4 truck that has the best off-road
1:25:46package ever and it stays in your
1:25:48garage? Probably not, right? like you
1:25:51want to be able to be like no you you
1:25:53want to live
1:25:56because you want to experience life and
1:25:59so then you want to be able to take
1:26:00advantage of those capacities and
1:26:02functionality.
1:26:03>> Yeah. Someone said to me you want to
1:26:04extend your health span not necessarily
1:26:05your lifespan.
1:26:06>> It's not health span though.
1:26:07>> Oh really?
1:26:08>> No that's what I'm that's what I'm
1:26:09pushing back on. Hell span cool. I mean
1:26:11lifespan fine great. We're all past
1:26:13that. Health span though is still like I
1:26:15don't want to be in pain. I don't want
1:26:16to be I'm saying performance span. I'm
1:26:20saying I want you to be focused on
1:26:22having the most skill. I want you to
1:26:25just be crushing cognitively. I want you
1:26:28to be able to do anything you want
1:26:29physically for as long as we possibly
1:26:31can. And not just being like, well,
1:26:33that's going to go away. Let's just stay
1:26:35alive and be out of pain. I want you to
1:26:37be thinking about, no, like, I'm going
1:26:39to be doing awesome stuff in whatever
1:26:41venue you like to do it in for as long
1:26:44as you possibly can.
1:26:44>> I think people want both.
1:26:46>> Yeah, of course.
1:26:47>> Yeah. But let's not for let's just not
1:26:49leave that end of the table off and
1:26:50assume the performance has to go away.
1:26:53[clears throat]
1:26:54>> So on [snorts] this point of energy then
1:26:55I think we've we've covered a lot of it
1:26:56and given me some sort of like really
1:26:58actionable principles there for how to
1:27:00have more energy. I do notice I have to
1:27:03say cuz I travel quite a lot and so on
1:27:05on occasion my gym routine will be
1:27:08impacted
1:27:09>> and there's quite a clear correlation
1:27:10for me between the amount of times I've
1:27:12gone to the gym in previous weeks
1:27:14>> Yeah. and how I feel in terms of energy
1:27:16today. I was thinking about this this
1:27:18morning. We're in New York here and over
1:27:20the last couple of weeks, I've probably
1:27:21been going to the gym like three or four
1:27:23like three times a week if I'm being
1:27:24honest. Whereas usually I'd go almost
1:27:27every day and I have felt a difference
1:27:29in my energy. And I wasn't sure if that
1:27:30was just like psychological or if that
1:27:32was supported by science.
1:27:33>> Both. If you go and do a a moderate to
1:27:36to light lower intensity exercise
1:27:39session, those are generally going to
1:27:40provide energy. Mhm.
1:27:41>> If you're like, "No, I did a like to the
1:27:43death training. I I pegged it. I went
1:27:45all the way." Whatever that is, whether
1:27:46you're lifting weights, intensity,
1:27:47whether you're getting your heart rate
1:27:49all the way up, then you might walk out
1:27:50of those and be like, "Woo, I'm
1:27:52exhausted." But on aggregate, those will
1:27:55provide more daily energy. If you're
1:27:57traveling, sick, super busy, do the
1:28:01former. Like, just get in some motion.
1:28:03You'll feel better. You'll get a sweat
1:28:04in. You there. If you're healthy and
1:28:06looking for long-term adaptation, then
1:28:08that's when you can start to push the
1:28:10pace on the training.
1:28:12>> I want to speak to the business owners
1:28:13listening and watching right now. I know
1:28:15what it's like to be personally
1:28:16responsible for every decision. I
1:28:18founded my first company at 21 years
1:28:19old, and honestly, the pressure can be
1:28:22immense. It's the kind of mental load
1:28:24that takes its toll below the surface. I
1:28:26recently did some tests through our
1:28:27sponsor, Function, which got me thinking
1:28:29about that invisible impact. I found
1:28:31that I had low levels of omega-3s. I had
1:28:35deficient levels of vitamin D, probably
1:28:37because I sit inside this dark room all
1:28:39day. And that has totally changed how I
1:28:42construct my day going forward. I get up
1:28:43in the morning and the first thing I now
1:28:45do is I go for a walk outside in the
1:28:46sunshine. In part to help my vitamin D
1:28:48levels increase, but also because it
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1:29:28hit that button. Thank you so much.
1:29:30>> Speaking of training, you know what this
1:29:32is, don't you?
1:29:32>> Sure.
1:29:33>> This is a a grip strength machine.
1:29:36>> Yeah.
1:29:36>> A lot of people told me that um grip
1:29:39strength is the single biggest predictor
1:29:41of I think they said like longevity and
1:29:43stuff like that.
1:29:44>> I wouldn't call it the number one
1:29:45predictor of mortality. It is a really
1:29:47nice scientific test. late 1980s,
1:29:51Stephen Blair and his team started
1:29:52looking at giant databases and started
1:29:55to realize that cardiovascular fitness,
1:29:58V2 max, V2 peak, things like this were
1:30:01predicting how long people were going to
1:30:02live.
1:30:04And in fact, they started to realize it
1:30:05was out predicting what we call
1:30:07traditional clinical markers, blood
1:30:09pressure, your cholesterol levels,
1:30:10things like that. And this launched an
1:30:13entire 45 year field that we're in now,
1:30:16which is like, wait a minute, these
1:30:18performance-based markers are actually
1:30:21predicting health more than these
1:30:23indirect markers.
1:30:25The unfortunate problem is that got like
1:30:27too taken too far. And so when you hear
1:30:30things like people and my colleagues who
1:30:32have been on your show and said things
1:30:33like, "Oh, grip strength is an important
1:30:35predictor of mortality." It's good. It's
1:30:36great. It's an important message. But we
1:30:38have to be careful in being lost in what
1:30:40that means. Getting a grip strength
1:30:42device like that, which is probably
1:30:44under $40 is amazing. And what you will
1:30:48see consistently is those people that
1:30:49are really, really, really weak,
1:30:51are in worse health on average. Where we
1:30:54come become false is saying, okay,
1:30:56therefore, you need to alter your
1:30:58lifestyle to maximize grip strength.
1:31:00>> I did do my grip strength results
1:31:02actually.
1:31:03>> Do you remember how they were?
1:31:04>> It was they was it was good. It was uh
1:31:06it was high. You know what that tells me
1:31:08about your health? Well,
1:31:09>> nothing.
1:31:09>> Okay.
1:31:10>> Why wouldn't it be high? You're young.
1:31:11You're fit. I have all those other
1:31:12markers. It's not going to tell us
1:31:13anything. You know, these things are
1:31:15really powerful. Somebody who doesn't
1:31:16have blood work or doesn't have a body
1:31:19composition test or doesn't have
1:31:20anything else. It can give us a crude
1:31:22strength or a crude metric. Let's say
1:31:25this person's probably at a health risk.
1:31:28So, I've always been quite confused by
1:31:30this because is grip strength a proxy
1:31:32for my overall strength of my entire
1:31:35body and therefore it's just indicating
1:31:37that my overall strength is low or is it
1:31:40actually like my arm?
1:31:41>> It's both.
1:31:42>> Oh, okay.
1:31:42>> It's both. Here's why. You know what
1:31:44you're really testing right there?
1:31:45>> What's that?
1:31:46>> Ner nervous system.
1:31:48>> Oh, really?
1:31:48>> You're testing your brain.
1:31:50>> So, you're not testing your strength as
1:31:51much.
1:31:51>> You are,
1:31:52>> but it's both.
1:31:53>> There's an overlap. Mhm.
1:31:54>> That's why your grip strength does it
1:31:56indicate general poor health? Yes.
1:31:58>> That's the value. Does it tell you
1:32:01anything directly about your It can. And
1:32:04so this is when you see two camps here.
1:32:06So camp one is like great, I'm going to
1:32:08open up a gym down the street and it's
1:32:10going to test your grip strength and
1:32:11then we're going to focus all of your
1:32:12training on grip strength training. That
1:32:14is we've exaggerated the point. The
1:32:16other camp is it doesn't matter. It's
1:32:18all indirect. That's not true either. is
1:32:20an actionable, useful thing where you
1:32:22don't need to worry about us optimizing
1:32:24maxing it. Like I if you're in the 80th
1:32:26percentile, going to the 90th percentile
1:32:28probably doesn't make you live a day
1:32:29longer. Over the last probably 3 years,
1:32:32I would imagine there's over 20 to 25
1:32:35studies that have been published on a
1:32:36very specific type of grip strength, and
1:32:38that's grip strength asymmetry.
1:32:40Do you know why that matters?
1:32:42>> I don't, but I know that I'm I'm
1:32:44stronger on my left side than my right.
1:32:45>> It's not uncommon. Um, typically your
1:32:48force dependent limb is not your neural
1:32:50control limb. So you write right-handed
1:32:52because you have to have fine motor
1:32:54control.
1:32:54>> Okay.
1:32:55>> Gross strength can be in the opposite
1:32:56side.
1:32:57>> Go like this. You know, keep it in here.
1:32:59Don't touch your arm to the table at
1:33:00all. Keep it 90° like that. Yep. And
1:33:03then you're just going to squeeze, you
1:33:05know, one good effort as hard as you
1:33:06can.
1:33:08>> All right. Don't blow out now.
1:33:11>> All right. Let's see.
1:33:12>> Oh gosh, my head nearly exploded.
1:33:13[laughter]
1:33:16130. So you're you're above average. So
1:33:19>> can I try this side as well?
1:33:20>> Yeah.
1:33:21>> This is my So this is my weaker.
1:33:22>> All right. Here we go.
1:33:23>> My weaker hand.
1:33:24>> All right. You got to beat it though.
1:33:25Now [sighs and gasps]
1:33:27[snorts]
1:33:27>> gosh, it's a bit slippery.
1:33:31>> I think you did.
1:33:31>> Did I beat it?
1:33:32>> Oh my god. Wow. 160.
1:33:35>> No, you're joking.
1:33:36>> 160. Not the
1:33:39lot crunching there. [snorts]
1:33:42>> 130.
1:33:43>> Okay. Okay. On that side
1:33:44>> and your left side.
1:33:45>> Let's see.
1:33:51>> 110.
1:33:52>> Crossing, man. That's really good.
1:33:54>> But it what it taught me is that it's
1:33:55not it doesn't correlate to overall
1:33:56strength because Jeff is definitely
1:33:57stronger than me.
1:33:58>> For sure. For sure. [laughter] Yeah. I
1:33:59mean, it's a very specific type of
1:34:00strength, right? So, the asymmetry
1:34:02actually matters because most of the
1:34:04work in that area is in groups with
1:34:06neurological disease. So, you're trying
1:34:08to look at early predictions of
1:34:09Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and things
1:34:10like that. which ties into my earlier
1:34:13point is it is not simply an overall
1:34:15proxy of your health. It can tell us
1:34:17direct things like nerve denervation
1:34:20and overall neurological health. So it
1:34:23to me is a it's a great tool but what we
1:34:26don't want to do then is optimize
1:34:30for that.
1:34:30>> What is a better marker of my overall
1:34:31health?
1:34:32>> There's not a single marker that will
1:34:34tell you everything.
1:34:35>> What about muscle power?
1:34:36>> Muscle power is great as well.
1:34:38>> What is that?
1:34:38>> Power is defined as force multiplied by
1:34:40velocity. So if I
1:34:42>> Yeah.
1:34:43>> If I throw this
1:34:44>> Yeah.
1:34:45>> Do you want to throw it?
1:34:46>> Go ahead.
1:34:46>> Okay. Put your hand [laughter] on there.
1:34:48>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:34:49>> Yeah. Great.
1:34:50>> Is that Is that muscle power?
1:34:52>> That wasn't much power because you did
1:34:54it slow.
1:34:54>> Okay.
1:34:55>> So, think about it this way. This is uh
1:34:5812 kilos, right? 12 kilos. I don't know.
1:35:01Pounds. Kilos. That is mass. Kilos.
1:35:05Pounds is a unit of mass. Force. That's
1:35:08what you think when you think of
1:35:09strength. That's force.
1:35:11Force is defined as F= ma. It's mass
1:35:13times acceleration is force. Okay? So
1:35:15it's the mass multiplied by how you can
1:35:18how well you can accelerate it. Power
1:35:21is your force multiplied by your
1:35:22velocity. So here's the difference. If I
1:35:25were to take this 12 pounds of mass or
1:35:2712 kilos and hand it to you slowly.
1:35:29>> Mhm.
1:35:30>> Okay. That is an expression of 12 pounds
1:35:33of force is how we'll think about it.
1:35:34Now if you hand it back to me the exact
1:35:36same speed that is the same amount of
1:35:38newtons of force. How I create power is
1:35:40now I do that same thing with speed.
1:35:42Ready?
1:35:44>> So there are two ways you can get more
1:35:46powerful. More force, more velocity.
1:35:50>> You would use an implement like that
1:35:51because you're trying to say give me a
1:35:52little bit of mass but you can obviously
1:35:54lift more than 12 kilos. But now I'm
1:35:57going to emphasize the velocity into the
1:35:59spectrum. Where people make the mistake
1:36:01in training for power is if you go slow,
1:36:04the mass is too light to do anything. So
1:36:06you don't get stronger and you don't get
1:36:09faster. Why this matters in the current
1:36:11conversation is you see power and what
1:36:15some people will call call things like
1:36:17powerpenia.
1:36:19So the the term that we've been using
1:36:21for a long time is sarcopenia and this
1:36:23is the the accelerated loss of muscle
1:36:25and probably muscle strength with aging.
1:36:28You're going to drop some but sarcopenia
1:36:30is are you dropping faster than you
1:36:32should? And now there's a turn of
1:36:34scientific attention to powerpenia,
1:36:36which is are you losing the power faster
1:36:39than you should be losing power. That
1:36:41matters because it is everything from
1:36:43prevention of fall,
1:36:45>> catching yourself when you slip to be
1:36:47able to move and accelerate quickly. And
1:36:49so you see that thing that stuff highly
1:36:51associated with breaking of bones uh
1:36:55fractures, dislocations
1:36:58which are incredibly impactful to health
1:37:00especially post age 60 or 65.
1:37:04>> I think a lot of people listening and me
1:37:06too. So I guess one of the questions we
1:37:09have as it relates to the gym and
1:37:11working out is we often think that in
1:37:13order to get better results in the gym
1:37:15and you can define that however you want
1:37:17to. fat loss, muscle gain, whatever,
1:37:19strength,
1:37:20>> we need to go more often.
1:37:22And I was curious, someone who spends so
1:37:25long with athletes,
1:37:27is that a bit of a myth? Because even my
1:37:29even me, I'm thinking, well, if I want
1:37:30better results in the gym, I probably
1:37:32just need to I'm currently going three
1:37:34or four days a week. I need to go back
1:37:35to going six or seven days a week to get
1:37:36better results.
1:37:37>> You could go either way. It is generally
1:37:39true that if you train more, you give
1:37:42yourself more opportunity to create
1:37:44stress, which is more opportunity to
1:37:46create adaptation.
1:37:48But that said, depending on the marker,
1:37:50the answer here could range from yes to
1:37:52no. Let's use muscle growth as an
1:37:54example. As long as you hit the same
1:37:58volume throughout the week, the amount
1:38:01of times you go to the gym doesn't
1:38:03matter that much in theory.
1:38:05>> Volume. How much load did you lift? How
1:38:09many times
1:38:10>> does time period matter? I.e. if I
1:38:12lifted four weights in 1 hour versus
1:38:15lifting four weights in 20 minutes.
1:38:17>> No, because now all you've changed is
1:38:19really the rest in between.
1:38:20>> Yeah. Does that matter? It does in the
1:38:22sense that if you take a short rest
1:38:25interval and that leads to excessive
1:38:28fatigue accumulation and then that
1:38:30compromises how heavy you can lift or
1:38:32how many reps you can do or how many
1:38:33sets you can do. That will have
1:38:35compromised your volume.
1:38:36>> Wait, so cuz everyone talks about taking
1:38:39shorter rests in the gym to build more
1:38:42muscles.
1:38:42>> Not consistent with the evidence.
1:38:44>> Really?
1:38:44>> Yep. But this is this is the game you're
1:38:47playing at all times, right?
1:38:49Who has the time to wait two and a half
1:38:51minutes between every set? You're going
1:38:52to be in the gym for an hour and a half.
1:38:54>> A lot of people are on their phones.
1:38:56>> Totally. And then because of that,
1:38:58they're like, I got to get out of here.
1:38:59So they do half the amount of stuff,
1:39:00they leave cuz they're out of time. So
1:39:03the battle is in an isolated world,
1:39:08if you were to probably spend 60 to 90
1:39:11seconds or maybe up to two minutes
1:39:12resting in between each set, generally
1:39:14you recover enough to have a higher
1:39:16quality set the next one. So, is that
1:39:18the most important thing to be
1:39:19optimizing for is the high making sure
1:39:21the next rep you do is high quality?
1:39:23>> In my world, quality is always number
1:39:25one.
1:39:26>> So, you're saying take a bigger break as
1:39:28long as you can recover and are more
1:39:31strong for the next rep.
1:39:33>> As long as it doesn't put you in a
1:39:35position where you're in the gym so long
1:39:37that you won't do all the stuff you
1:39:38needed to do.
1:39:39>> But in a world where you had unlimited
1:39:41time
1:39:42>> really
1:39:42>> generally
1:39:43>> depends on what adaptation we're working
1:39:44for. If we're working on endurance, then
1:39:47we don't necessarily have to do that.
1:39:48>> Okay?
1:39:48>> But if we're working on speed or skill
1:39:51or flexibility or balance or muscle
1:39:53growth or fat loss, now we have options.
1:39:55So depending on the outcome you're
1:39:57looking for, you have tools. I I think
1:39:58the biggest point we want to make here
1:40:00is
1:40:01where the field struggles right now is
1:40:05making a little bit of information get
1:40:07in the way of motivation.
1:40:11If you're going to the gym three days a
1:40:12week, I'm clapping.
1:40:15done. Like, we're winning. I don't want
1:40:18you to hear messages and go, "Oh, I'm
1:40:20doing it all wrong. I'm not going to get
1:40:22any results. I'm tanking my metabolism.
1:40:25I'm breaking my hormones." That's the
1:40:27that drives us nuts. You're
1:40:29motivated. It's hard enough to get to
1:40:31the gym and when you get there to try
1:40:33really hard. We've gotten over the hill.
1:40:36Now, if you're past that point, we could
1:40:37start tinkering with some things. But I
1:40:38hate it when people leave conversations
1:40:40like this and go, "Oh, did you know that
1:40:42if you don't rest more than 60 seconds
1:40:45that you're not getting anything?"
1:40:47That's not true. So, we can get like
1:40:50upgrades, but in general, I think most
1:40:53people quality should be the biggest
1:40:56thing you pay attention to because this
1:40:57is going to reduce your likelihood of
1:40:58injury. And there's even evidence that
1:41:01whether you're trying to get stronger or
1:41:04grow muscle,
1:41:05the quality of the repetition as defined
1:41:07by your technique, as defined by your
1:41:11range of motion, as defined by your
1:41:13intent, as defined by what we call your
1:41:15mind muscle connection. So like are if
1:41:18you're trying to contract your shoulder,
1:41:20are you really contracting your should
1:41:21like all these things start to matter.
1:41:23And so what you'll see happen is you can
1:41:25get more results
1:41:28with less work and shorter time because
1:41:31each individual repetition is of a
1:41:33higher quality and a more focused
1:41:35intent.
1:41:36>> I mean this might be a good time to just
1:41:38quickly take a I mean everyone's talking
1:41:41about creatine at the bloody moment. Do
1:41:42you have your athletes taking it?
1:41:43>> Yeah, of course
1:41:44>> you do.
1:41:44>> Yeah, everybody.
1:41:46>> Do you take it?
1:41:46>> Yeah.
1:41:47>> What do you take? What's in your
1:41:48supplement stack? my personal supplement
1:41:50stack.
1:41:52Same with all of our clients and
1:41:53athletes. There's two things. Correct
1:41:55physiology, performance enhancement.
1:41:58Totally separate categories. Correct
1:42:00physiological
1:42:02deficiencies are, in your case, your
1:42:04vitamin D. What is low, what is high,
1:42:06what is off track based on blood work,
1:42:08right? We try to solve this through
1:42:10food. But what this often time looks
1:42:12like is a high quality multivitamin,
1:42:15oftentimes fish oil. Now you have
1:42:17performance accelerators on the other
1:42:19side of that equation. This is when
1:42:20creatine can come in. If I'm traveling,
1:42:23I'm going to take things like fiber,
1:42:26right? Because it's harder to get
1:42:28vegetables when you travel. You probably
1:42:30know this, but airplanes, airports,
1:42:32restaurants, like vegetables are nowhere
1:42:34to be found. And so I know those are
1:42:36going to be a struggle. I'm going to
1:42:37take fiber there. I'm generally not
1:42:39taking it as much when I'm home because
1:42:40I can control my diet. Performance
1:42:43enhancers are things like creatine, are
1:42:45things like beta alanine, sodium
1:42:47bicarbonate. So depending on what
1:42:49fitness training goal I have at the
1:42:50moment, I'm going to alter those based
1:42:52on if I'm looking for muscle growth or
1:42:53endurance or
1:42:55>> What are you taking right now?
1:42:56>> Zero.
1:42:57>> Zero vitamin D like this week.
1:42:59>> No. No. Summertime.
1:43:01>> Okay.
1:43:02>> I live in I live in the forest.
1:43:03>> Omega-3.
1:43:04>> Nope.
1:43:06>> Why?
1:43:06>> I got full control of my diet and we got
1:43:08a lot of fish right now. So we are good
1:43:10there. I also have I'm fortunate I get
1:43:14to harvest my own meat and one of the
1:43:16things you'll see pretty consistently is
1:43:18even in red meat sources they're higher
1:43:21in a lot of nutrients wild caught versus
1:43:23unw wild. So we're in a pretty good plus
1:43:27I have my blood work I know where my
1:43:29omega-3 numbers are. So I'm going to get
1:43:30there if I don't have to take those
1:43:32things I don't.
1:43:32>> A lot of people I imagine come to you
1:43:34for with weight loss goals whether
1:43:35they're trying to cut weight for a a
1:43:37fight or if it's just mom and pop
1:43:39looking to lose a few pounds. What are
1:43:40the big misconceptions about weight
1:43:43loss?
1:43:44>> Yeah, it's the magic of it, right? It's
1:43:46the there's one specific element you
1:43:49can't eat or one way you have to train
1:43:51or can't train. That is the the biggest
1:43:54misconception around fat loss. The
1:43:56specificity. It is
1:44:00categorically quite simple to lose fat.
1:44:03It's practically hard. It's difficult
1:44:06human endeavor, but categorically it's
1:44:08incredibly simple. We only have a few
1:44:09things we have to do and now you have a
1:44:12billion choices of how to get there. So
1:44:14if you are the type of person who
1:44:17struggles with moderation,
1:44:20then I'm not going to give you
1:44:21moderation.
1:44:22>> Moderation of calories
1:44:23>> could be or exercise or environment. Do
1:44:28you know the difference between baking
1:44:30and cooking?
1:44:31>> Uh yeah, I guess so. Conceptually,
1:44:33>> baking is chemistry.
1:44:35>> Okay.
1:44:35>> You mix something together and put in
1:44:36the oven. You can't just fake the
1:44:38amounts
1:44:39>> because [clears throat] it won't rise,
1:44:40it won't set, it won't do the things,
1:44:42right? If you're cooking on a stove and
1:44:45you could just be like, "Okay, what's in
1:44:47the
1:44:48>> fridge? Put it in there."
1:44:49>> You can't do that in baking, right?
1:44:51Depending on what you're baking. We will
1:44:53address this fat loss problem with
1:44:54trying to identify, are you a cook or
1:44:57are you a baker personality type? Here's
1:45:00what I mean. If you came to me and we
1:45:01were going to help you lose some fat,
1:45:02you're already pretty lean, but let's
1:45:03say you wanted to just get super lean.
1:45:05All right, great. I would I first
1:45:07question I would ask you is how do you
1:45:08want this to operate? You get one of two
1:45:10ways.
1:45:12One way is I tell you exactly what to
1:45:15eat. You weigh and measure every single
1:45:17thing. You do not deviate. You check
1:45:20your weight every single day and you
1:45:22follow exactly
1:45:24what I tell you. The other option is I
1:45:26give you concepts. We have one to three
1:45:28rules. You're going to check weight
1:45:31maybe daily, maybe once a week. And I
1:45:34want you to stay airtight to those
1:45:35concepts.
1:45:36>> I prefer the concepts.
1:45:37>> Concepts. Great. Concepts or cooking.
1:45:40>> Okay.
1:45:42>> Baking,
1:45:43weigh and measure everything. Right.
1:45:45Here's why this matters. You're a
1:45:47concept kind of guy. Why? You do not
1:45:49want to be thinking about all that
1:45:51little stuff cuz you got other stuff
1:45:52you'd rather be thinking about, right?
1:45:54>> It's great because it's freeing.
1:45:57You know, the downside is
1:45:59if you don't know exactly what's in your
1:46:01food and you don't have a really good
1:46:03eye in calibration, someone like you
1:46:05might have a hard time losing fat
1:46:06because you're already at the end. We
1:46:09need to be weighing that olive oil. We
1:46:11need to be measuring that rice cup. We
1:46:12can't just be like, a little bit of rice
1:46:14over there, right? If you're trying to
1:46:15lose a 100 pounds,
1:46:17we can probably eyeball a lot of things
1:46:19and get really, really far.
1:46:20>> Yeah.
1:46:21>> But personality type is what I'm really
1:46:22getting at here. Okay.
1:46:25If I gave that concept to some people
1:46:28listening, some people would be going
1:46:32like like how many meals am I eating? Um
1:46:34like what's what's the fiber? Like they
1:46:36want the detail, right?
1:46:37>> What's the what's the concept?
1:46:39>> The concept could be something like
1:46:40>> give me an example of a
1:46:41>> I want you eating fresh vegetables at
1:46:44every meal and I want you to have a
1:46:46dedicated protein source every time you
1:46:48eat.
1:46:49>> Okay,
1:46:49>> that might be the only rule I give you.
1:46:52Well,
1:46:52>> could it be an eating window? Could be.
1:46:54Sure. I could say, "Eat whatever you
1:46:56want, but you're only going to eat
1:46:57between these hours."
1:46:58>> Okay?
1:46:58>> I could do whatever kind of one to three
1:47:00rules I want. I could say none of those
1:47:03things and I'll just say, "All right,
1:47:05just cut out all your junk food."
1:47:06>> Okay?
1:47:07>> I'm not going to tell you what to eat.
1:47:08I'm just going to give you a list of
1:47:09things not to eat. I could only give you
1:47:11I prefer to do the opposite. Defer to
1:47:13give you things rather than take things
1:47:14away because you're going to take those
1:47:16things away, right? So, I could play
1:47:17with your meal timing. I could play with
1:47:20your meal frequency. I could play with
1:47:21your meal composition. So, what types of
1:47:23food you're eating, the combinations of
1:47:25them, I could do anything there. And why
1:47:28all those work because those are simply
1:47:30different strategies to likely reduce
1:47:33food intake.
1:47:36That's all that's all we're really
1:47:37doing. But some people hate that because
1:47:39it's not enough detail.
1:47:41>> There's no specificity. There's no
1:47:43precision. They get anxiety from
1:47:44guessing. I've had plenty of athletes
1:47:46before just be like, "Okay, but like 6
1:47:48ounces of chicken or seven?" And I'm
1:47:49like, "6.3." Like, "Okay." Like who
1:47:52cares? Like it doesn't matter. But
1:47:53they're just like they want they don't
1:47:54want to make any decisions.
1:47:56>> Mhm.
1:47:57>> You have to make decisions about what
1:47:58you're going to eat because you got only
1:47:59have concepts. The nice part about the
1:48:02way you measure is you have no choices.
1:48:03>> I think the the average people listening
1:48:05would rather have the concepts. Like
1:48:06it's much easier for me to they they
1:48:09busy lives. They don't want to be
1:48:10weighing 6.3 g of so
1:48:12>> so you'd be stunned.
1:48:14Most people want that.
1:48:16>> Most people want the
1:48:17>> they want the detail because they don't
1:48:18have to think. They don't have to guess.
1:48:20They don't have to worry. They don't
1:48:21have to go, "God, like maybe I ate too
1:48:22much today. Maybe I didn't or whatever."
1:48:24>> But that's like hard to measure.
1:48:26>> Super hard. So, here's the
1:48:27recommendation.
1:48:29Do the baking approach first for two
1:48:31weeks.
1:48:32>> And by that, you mean measure
1:48:33everything. Understand what's in it.
1:48:35>> 100%. Then you can back off and start to
1:48:39go, "Okay, I have a better sense of what
1:48:41a tablespoon of peanut butter looks
1:48:43like. I have a better sense of what a
1:48:44cup of rice is.
1:48:46>> I'm getting a better sense of what
1:48:49>> 3 ounces of this is, whatever. now I can
1:48:51start toning things back.
1:48:52>> I think this is really great advice
1:48:53because I think the big shifts that I've
1:48:55seen in my own diet have have um been in
1:48:58that exact order where for one
1:49:00particular week I did it might be
1:49:02calorie counting or it might have been
1:49:03some of these apps where you can scan
1:49:05the food by using the barcode
1:49:07>> and it tells you what's inside there.
1:49:09And through that it only took me a week
1:49:11or two to discover that the things I ate
1:49:13frequently weren't what I thought.
1:49:15>> Yeah.
1:49:16>> Both in quantity but also in like
1:49:17nutritional profile. I think it's just
1:49:19super important for as many people as
1:49:22possible to spend at least a week doing
1:49:24that.
1:49:25>> And then I could make informed decisions
1:49:26about what I wanted to keep and what I
1:49:29actually didn't really like that much.
1:49:30Anyway,
1:49:30>> you know, I used to run this experiment
1:49:32in class every year. These are graduate
1:49:34students getting master's degrees in
1:49:37this particular field and we would have
1:49:39them do a seven-day diet recall. Just
1:49:41measure weigh everything you eat for
1:49:43seven days. Consistent themes that
1:49:45popped up.
1:49:47Almost everyone ate way more fat than
1:49:50they think.
1:49:51>> Is that a bad thing?
1:49:52>> If you're eating more calories than you
1:49:54need.
1:49:54>> Oh, fat. So, it's the calories is the
1:49:56problem versus the
1:49:56>> That's not bad for you. And there's no
1:49:58evil foods.
1:50:00People ate way more carbohydrates than
1:50:02they realized. Same answer. People ate
1:50:05way less protein than I think.
1:50:06>> What about sugar?
1:50:08>> Everyone knows they're eating sugar.
1:50:09where they're always stunned is they're
1:50:11like, "Whoa, I thought I was eating a
1:50:15small percentage, you know, 20% of my
1:50:17calories from fat." They didn't realize
1:50:18they're at 40%.
1:50:19>> This is why the keto diet actually did
1:50:20help me because it forced me to check
1:50:23everything for a while.
1:50:24>> So, this is great.
1:50:25>> It was really learning. It was learning
1:50:27what was in all these things that I
1:50:28loved. And keto forced me. You know, the
1:50:31the principle of a concept that I had
1:50:32when I was on keto was that I could have
1:50:33about 50 grams of carbs a day roughly
1:50:36>> and stay in ketogenic keto ketosis
1:50:38rather. Yeah. So I would think about it
1:50:39like a budget. I'd be like, "Oh, hm, I'd
1:50:41spend 23 carb, you know, grams of carbs
1:50:44on this particular thing." But but to do
1:50:45that, I had to look at everything,
1:50:47research everything.
1:50:48>> Yeah.
1:50:48>> Um and now I have an intuitive idea.
1:50:50>> Exactly. The point is simply your
1:50:52awareness and consciousness of what is
1:50:53actually
1:50:54>> in the elements that you want. And then
1:50:55if you want to change and tweak, you can
1:50:57do that cuz you know, but if you don't
1:50:59have the knowledge, you can't even play
1:51:01the game.
1:51:01>> What are the big misconceptions about
1:51:03exercise's role in weight loss?
1:51:05>> It is valuable. forever we've been
1:51:06telling people burn more calories than
1:51:09you ingest, right? And then then it's
1:51:11still true. And then we had a bunch of
1:51:13research pop out that was sort of like,
1:51:15hey, exercise is not playing the role we
1:51:17think it is in fat loss. And those data
1:51:19still hold true in the sense that you
1:51:21don't burn as many calories in your
1:51:22workouts as you think. Most of the time,
1:51:24if you hop on a piece of exercise
1:51:26equipment and it tells you you burned x
1:51:27amount of calories, you burned most
1:51:29likely significantly less than that.
1:51:32It's also true that there's there is
1:51:34places where you can get to with
1:51:37adaptive thermogenesis. Meaning if you
1:51:40burn say 500 calories with exercise,
1:51:44if you are lean enough or non-lean
1:51:47enough or fit enough or not fit enough,
1:51:49your body will change how many calories
1:51:51it burns throughout the day in response
1:51:54to that 500 calories from exercise.
1:51:55Meaning, you could be in a situation
1:51:58theoretically where you burned 500
1:52:00calories in your workout, but then your
1:52:03body downregulated your energy
1:52:05expenditure by three or four or even up
1:52:09to 500 calories
1:52:10>> to make up for it. So, it was
1:52:12>> you're neutral.
1:52:13>> Okay.
1:52:13>> When you're lean like that, that can
1:52:16happen quite often, right? And so then
1:52:17what do you do? You pull more calories.
1:52:20You train harder. You get a more of a
1:52:22response. This is a like oh okay calorie
1:52:25counting doesn't matter like it
1:52:26absolutely matters may not be the
1:52:28strategy you want but it matters there.
1:52:31So then there was a big push of like
1:52:33exercise is playing no role in fat loss
1:52:36which was fundamentally also not true
1:52:38because now we have meta analyses in the
1:52:41recent years as well as more studies
1:52:42showing probably the fairest way to say
1:52:44it is exercise is a fantastic way to
1:52:48burn some calories. It is not the only
1:52:51thing that you can do though to lose
1:52:55weight. You can handle weight loss
1:52:56entirely through nutrition if you want.
1:52:58That said, people who exercise during
1:53:00their weight loss journey consistently
1:53:02are better at keeping that fat off over
1:53:06the weeks to years at the end of the
1:53:08diet.
1:53:08>> You have a 54321 method. Oh,
1:53:12>> sure. 54321 was is just a little thing I
1:53:14came up with that says, "All right, can
1:53:15we help people with fat loss rules? Five
1:53:18days a week be active.
1:53:20Now this can be exercise. It can be
1:53:23walking. It can be your vocation. I
1:53:25don't really care. But what was cons has
1:53:27to happen with fat loss is you have to
1:53:30be able to produce caloric expenditure
1:53:34and you got to do a lot of it. This is
1:53:36my way of saying be active. And also I'm
1:53:39saying it's cool to take a rest day too.
1:53:41Like it's totally fine to just veg. You
1:53:43can do that. But be as active as you
1:53:45possibly can. Then from there, I want
1:53:48four days a week of structured exercise.
1:53:52One of these days can be a super hard
1:53:54day. It can be light. One of those days
1:53:56could be a yoga day. Like not all four
1:54:00days have to be head to the gym, volume
1:54:0211, like train as hard as you can. But
1:54:05four days a week where I want you doing
1:54:07structured exercise, at least three days
1:54:09a week, I want you training hard enough
1:54:11to sweat. If you're doing all that,
1:54:14you're active five days a week, you're
1:54:16doing structured exercise four days a
1:54:18week, three of those sessions, you're
1:54:19doing it hard enough where you're
1:54:20getting a really good solid sweat,
1:54:22you're probably doing enough to burn
1:54:25enough calories to give yourself a
1:54:27chance from the exercise perspective
1:54:29um to losing weight. If you've done
1:54:32those first three, we could even we
1:54:33could even just call it the 543. Like,
1:54:35you're in a pretty good spot. If you
1:54:37mean more granular, I would love a
1:54:38couple of days a week of strength
1:54:40training and I would love at least one
1:54:42day where your heart rate's getting
1:54:43really, really, really high.
1:54:45>> So, a lot of people, including myself,
1:54:47often think, you know, I'm going to the
1:54:48gym 3 4 days a week, but nothing's
1:54:50changing. I feel like I've stagnated.
1:54:52>> Yeah.
1:54:53>> What is going on there? Typically,
1:54:55>> typical solutions for this are lack of
1:54:57focus. And I don't mean in your
1:54:59training. I mean in your programming.
1:55:01So, if you are looking at your program
1:55:02saying, I'm going to the gym 3 or 4 days
1:55:04a week. First question would be, okay,
1:55:06what type of training program are you
1:55:08on?
1:55:08>> I'm kind of just winging it.
1:55:09>> That's why.
1:55:10>> Okay.
1:55:11>> If I said the same thing to you and gave
1:55:12you any business analogy here, you would
1:55:14look at me in the face and smile. I'd be
1:55:15like, you have a plan. Why would you
1:55:18expect without a plan to get to any
1:55:21particular direction?
1:55:21>> It's a good point.
1:55:22>> 80% of the time, that's the answer. Now,
1:55:24here's the thing, and we have literature
1:55:26on this. There's good evidence. The plan
1:55:29itself isn't the biggest factor. It's
1:55:33actually just having a plan.
1:55:35>> Interesting.
1:55:36>> Because you have the ability to
1:55:37progressively overload.
1:55:39>> What does that mean?
1:55:39>> Meaning you were able to increase your
1:55:42number of repetitions than you did last
1:55:43week. You can do a few more sets than
1:55:45you did. You can increase the load. You
1:55:48can increase the range of motion.
1:55:49There's all kinds of ways that we can
1:55:51overload the system progressively. You
1:55:55can't do all that.
1:55:55>> This is, you know, I think this is
1:55:56really the heart of it, which is most of
1:55:58us go to the gym and we do the same
1:55:59thing.
1:56:00>> Totally.
1:56:00>> We do the same thing we did last week.
1:56:01We put the the stair master machine on
1:56:04level eight and we do 10 minutes. And we
1:56:06did that for the last 7 months.
1:56:07[laughter]
1:56:08>> Yeah.
1:56:08>> Whereas we should really just put it up
1:56:10one. But in order to do that, we kind of
1:56:11need a plan as you say
1:56:12>> because you can't just go up one every
1:56:14time.
1:56:14>> Yeah.
1:56:15>> Like how many how many weeks in a row
1:56:16can you add 5 lbs?
1:56:19>> Three, four. Like it's not going to be
1:56:20very long. This is the entire reason
1:56:22exercise is a scientific field, right?
1:56:24We have that. So my strong
1:56:26recommendation would be if you're a
1:56:28absolute beginner and you're not going
1:56:30to the gym at all, you're not doing
1:56:31anything, you can probably use AI tools
1:56:35and give you some basic starting
1:56:36program. In fact, I people send these
1:56:38things all the time to me be like, "Hey,
1:56:40I prompted my thing with like all of
1:56:42your content and I have a complete
1:56:45personalized training program from Andy
1:56:47Galpin." I'm like, "Great." And I look
1:56:49at them, I'm like, "Pretty good." Like,
1:56:51"All right, that's pretty reasonable."
1:56:53And it's they're good enough to get you
1:56:54started. They're going to get you the
1:56:55basics. They're going to get you going
1:56:56and then you have something to follow
1:56:58for six, eight, 10 weeks, whatever.
1:57:01>> Let me ask AI for Andy Galpins.
1:57:05>> Put in your constraints. Tell it how
1:57:06many days a week.
1:57:07>> Okay, let's do it like so everyone can
1:57:08hear.
1:57:10Hi. Um, I want to go to the gym 4 days a
1:57:13week and I want Andy Galpin's formula
1:57:16for me to gain muscle, but what are the
1:57:20principles that I need to apply based on
1:57:23Andy Galpin's work over the next 4
1:57:25months in order to gain this muscle?
1:57:27>> To gain muscle in strength over the next
1:57:294 months, you'll want to focus on a few
1:57:31key principles from Dr. Galpin's work.
1:57:34First, prioritize progressive overload
1:57:36by gradually increasing the weight,
1:57:38reps, or sets over time. Second, use a
1:57:41variety of repetition ranges,
1:57:43incorporating both heavy low rep work
1:57:45for strength and moderate to high rep
1:57:47work for muscle growth. Finally, ensure
1:57:49you're taking adequate rest between
1:57:51sets, usually two to 5 minutes for heavy
1:57:54compound movements to allow for full
1:57:55recovery and maintain high quality
1:57:57effort.
1:57:59Pretty good. That's not There's a little
1:58:00bit of hallucination in there, which is
1:58:02AI, but that's pretty close.
1:58:04>> A lot of people aren't doing this now,
1:58:06aren't they? using AI is like the
1:58:08>> we saw a huge pendulum in the last 5
1:58:09years. 2020 almost ended health and
1:58:13fitness.
1:58:15Gyms went out of business. Everyone went
1:58:17home. Everyone bought their exercise
1:58:18equipment. And as soon as AI came
1:58:20online, online coaching tanked and
1:58:22online companies got crippled cuz
1:58:25everyone was like, "Why am I going to
1:58:26pay you a hundred bucks a month, 200
1:58:27bucks a month, 300 bucks a month for
1:58:29that?"
1:58:30>> And they were right. It's going the
1:58:32exact opposite now. It's already swung
1:58:34back. In-person training is way more in
1:58:37demand.
1:58:37>> I'm not surprised
1:58:38>> because
1:58:39>> everyone's tired of that.
1:58:40>> It's also personal trainers don't just
1:58:42tell you what to do. No,
1:58:43>> they make sure you do it, you know? So,
1:58:45>> how do I do it? It's the emotion. It's
1:58:47the connection.
1:58:48>> It's the emotion. It's the connection.
1:58:49It's the like holding me accountable.
1:58:51>> So, what you're seeing is people going,
1:58:54"It was never about the information."
1:58:55>> Yeah. We always had the information.
1:58:57>> We always had it. Nothing in that
1:58:59>> I made up.
1:59:00>> Yeah. That stuff's been around for like
1:59:03it's funny. Every time I talk about like
1:59:04exercise prescription, somebody will hit
1:59:06the comments and be like, "Why don't you
1:59:07give credit to blah blah blah? They're
1:59:08the one that invented that." And I'm
1:59:09like, "None of us invented this stuff."
1:59:12>> Mhm.
1:59:13>> Dumbbells, barbells, like rep rang. This
1:59:14is
1:59:16It's not the information. It's never
1:59:17been it.
1:59:18>> So, what is it then? Like, why why do
1:59:20people keep listening to these
1:59:22conversations when they kind of a lot of
1:59:24them kind of know the stuff? I don't
1:59:25know what's happening on your platform,
1:59:27but a lot of people are not listening to
1:59:30podcasts anymore because you're going to
1:59:32see this probably in the comments
1:59:33section. Hey, Grock, tell me the 10
1:59:35actionable things from this three-hour
1:59:36conversation.
1:59:37>> Cuz [clears throat] they just try and
1:59:38extract the data, right?
1:59:39>> Mhm.
1:59:40>> And then they don't do anything. You
1:59:42know who's going to take action from
1:59:43this? The people who listened.
1:59:47>> True. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's not it's
1:59:49the it's not the information.
1:59:50>> Yeah. In part in part it is the story.
1:59:52And I say the story in particular
1:59:54because one of the most compelling
1:59:55things that we see on these podcasts is
1:59:57when you tell me real case studies of
1:59:59real people. You talk about what Jenny
2:00:01did and you were training Jenny and she
2:00:02had this thing and she was permenopause
2:00:04and she did this thing with this thing
2:00:05and da
2:00:06>> and people go ah okay those stay with
2:00:08me.
2:00:08>> You know what I'm willing to pay for you
2:00:10know what the world is willing to pay
2:00:11for. Have you done it before?
2:00:14>> Oh yeah. Yeah. True. Human experience
2:00:15like lived experience. So when you see a
2:00:17story, you're able to go, "Okay, I
2:00:20believe that person's done it
2:00:22>> and now I trust that opinion because I
2:00:23could just go grab the program, right?"
2:00:25The other thing is it's saving me time.
2:00:27Like you could sit there and go, "Okay,
2:00:29here's all the prompts and whatever,
2:00:30throw it in there and get your own
2:00:32training program." Or you could be like,
2:00:34"Yo, I'm just going to go pay Andy. I
2:00:36know he's done it before. I trust him
2:00:38and now I'm going to go spend my time on
2:00:40this other thing that I care about
2:00:41learning about and spending my time on."
2:00:43Are there any commonalities in the
2:00:45catalyst moment that causes behavior
2:00:48change in people who are otherwise
2:00:50stubborn? So I think everyone that I I
2:00:52sit with and just even myself there's a
2:00:54there was a moment in my life where I
2:00:55heard something or something happened
2:00:57where I go Yeah.
2:00:58>> And that was the day it was like a
2:01:00before and after moment I call them that
2:01:01was the day that I decided to take this
2:01:03seriously.
2:01:04>> Yeah.
2:01:04>> And do you see any commonalities in what
2:01:06that is for different people?
2:01:07>> It's such a fabulous question and I
2:01:08don't have a good answer for you
2:01:10>> because it's always so different.
2:01:11>> It's so hard. I would love to say
2:01:14it was the rock bottom moment. I mean,
2:01:16it can be true. It's not always true.
2:01:19>> Can I suggest another
2:01:20>> please?
2:01:20>> Maybe like big life changes like kids,
2:01:24>> death, friend, family, life becomes
2:01:26real.
2:01:27>> I've heard that a few times on this show
2:01:28actually.
2:01:29>> You'll see that. Um,
2:01:30>> my dad had a heart attack and that's
2:01:31crazy. The threat of death doesn't
2:01:33motivate anybody,
2:01:35>> right?
2:01:35>> If it would have, we wouldn't have a 40%
2:01:37obesity rate.
2:01:38>> Yeah. Who doesn't know obesity tanks?
2:01:42Everybody knows. It's not a information
2:01:44issue. You know the risks associated
2:01:46with alcohol, smoking, social media.
2:01:49That does not change behavior. You get
2:01:51closer though when it it's at home,
2:01:54right? Somebody died in the car
2:01:56accident.
2:01:57I'll I'm going to stop looking at
2:01:59my phone while I drive cuz my neighbor
2:02:02just died. My ex Like that's the thing
2:02:04that makes you go
2:02:06>> too close to home.
2:02:07>> That's so true. I was saying to my
2:02:08fiance when I was um driving the other
2:02:10day in the car cuz I'm notorious for
2:02:11asking everybody to put their seat belts
2:02:13on. If we get in a car, I'm the guy in a
2:02:15black cab or I'm like, "Everyone, could
2:02:16you put your seat belts on, please?" My
2:02:17team know this as well. Like if we going
2:02:19anywhere, I look around at every single
2:02:20person to make sure they have their seat
2:02:22belts on. Yeah.
2:02:22>> When did this begin? When I was 10 years
2:02:25old.
2:02:25>> Yeah.
2:02:26>> And they came to my school. I remember
2:02:27being sat in the front row. I almost
2:02:28remember my seat number. It was that
2:02:30vivid for me. Two things I remember from
2:02:3210 years old.
2:02:33>> They brought a mother who had lost her
2:02:35child in a car accident. And then they
2:02:37brought out a police person and he
2:02:38described going to the scene of the
2:02:40accident, looking down at the person who
2:02:42had just been in a car accident's phone,
2:02:44realizing that they were deceased, and
2:02:46then looking down and seeing their phone
2:02:47ringing and it said, "Mom."
2:02:50>> And I just I've never forgotten it. It
2:02:53was somewhat [laughter] traumatic, but
2:02:54it's meant that for the rest of my life,
2:02:56I've policed seat belts.
2:02:58>> Yeah.
2:02:58>> And that's what I mean by these catalyst
2:03:00moments where an idea gets in your head
2:03:01and it just completely changes.
2:03:03>> Yeah. And so I'm wondering what those
2:03:04ideas are for people as it relates to
2:03:06like weight loss and health. And so we
2:03:08we ticked off some of them. Someone gets
2:03:10a line in your family. Maybe a diagnosis
2:03:12in the performance perspective. This is
2:03:14when we would argue for data
2:03:16because we've had this happen earlier in
2:03:19my career with a professional athlete
2:03:20who was not fast enough and was
2:03:22convinced he was fast. And then we put
2:03:25him on a force plate and we started
2:03:27collecting objective data. And at the
2:03:29same time, I had some of my students
2:03:30around and I had them do it kind of like
2:03:32what you did with your grip strength
2:03:35with Jeff and was like, "You see how
2:03:37they're as fast as you are?" And he was
2:03:39like, "Oh,
2:03:42everything changed." Like he was totally
2:03:43bought in, made every training change
2:03:46that we asked. He had to see it in front
2:03:48of his face. Like he had to see his
2:03:49data. So my other answer to that to you
2:03:51would be now that we've democratized
2:03:54health in this sense, the ability to see
2:03:55your own data, I would be willing to bet
2:03:59had I pulled up a blood panel that had
2:04:02the cholesterol levels that you saw and
2:04:04I said, "Oh, this is a client of mine."
2:04:06You would be like, "Oh, okay, great.
2:04:08Uh-huh. Uh-huh." But then when I pull up
2:04:10yours and say, "This is," you're like,
2:04:12"Sit
2:04:14over." Like, "We're done with that."
2:04:16Right? Like there's no question. I was
2:04:18looking for some research and there's
2:04:19some um evidence here backed by some
2:04:21research that goes to answer the
2:04:23question and I think we actually
2:04:24answered we hit most of them which is an
2:04:26acute health shock or diagnosis which is
2:04:27the primary catalyst
2:04:29>> um various health events which become
2:04:31wakeup calls which you talked about as
2:04:32well which is
2:04:33>> someone else a peer or friend or
2:04:35sibling. Number three you touched on as
2:04:36well which is this quantitive biometric
2:04:38feedback so data.
2:04:40>> Yep.
2:04:40>> Um yep
2:04:41>> it says major life this one we didn't
2:04:43touch on major life transitions i.e.
2:04:46>> Yeah. um such as becoming a parent,
2:04:48turning a landmark age like 30, 40, or
2:04:5150.
2:04:51>> Yeah.
2:04:52>> Or reaching retirement. You see that a
2:04:53lot?
2:04:54>> Yeah. You know what? Actually, that made
2:04:56me think. Here's one we've seen the
2:04:57most. Sold my company.
2:05:00>> Oh,
2:05:02>> that one changes everyone's life. It's
2:05:04similar to post gold depression.
2:05:06>> Oh, you've lost purpose.
2:05:08What do I do?
2:05:09>> I need to do something.
2:05:10>> Now I got Now I got money. Now I have
2:05:12time.
2:05:12>> Interesting.
2:05:13>> I'm investing in my health now. like I
2:05:15didn't I sacrificed my health the last
2:05:1620 years. Ding ding ding ding ding. Now
2:05:19I got to turn around and I'm like okay.
2:05:21>> But is it also just like I need a new
2:05:23purpose and my body then becomes the the
2:05:24project.
2:05:25>> That's exactly what it is where in the
2:05:26past I had the excuse of sacrificing for
2:05:30the company
2:05:31>> and I I couldn't focus on myself. It was
2:05:34selfish. It wasn't fiduciarily
2:05:35responsible to do that. And now I have
2:05:38no more excuse. Well, looking at this
2:05:40list then, listen, we can't we're going
2:05:42to pray no one in your family or no one
2:05:44you know gets sick. So, let's stay away
2:05:45from that one.
2:05:46>> Um the the two of them there that can be
2:05:49quite motivating and again, we don't
2:05:51want to motivate you if you're
2:05:52completely fine. But this actually
2:05:54answers the question is to go and get
2:05:55your health checked.
2:05:56>> Yeah,
2:05:57>> that's like a simple solution because
2:05:58maybe you're fine and that's great.
2:06:00maybe you're doing everything right, but
2:06:01also um just saying, "Oh, I want to lose
2:06:03a bit of weight or I want to do this
2:06:05isn't as solid enough as going and
2:06:07finding out how you're doing."
2:06:08>> One thing also I think is important cuz
2:06:11I will default to performance and
2:06:14optimization and getting the best and
2:06:15excellence. Like that's just the
2:06:16language and stuff I do, but that's not
2:06:19the opposite of what you just said. To
2:06:22be really clear on that point,
2:06:24not everyone gravitates the idea of
2:06:27being the best possible ever.
2:06:29>> Yeah. Totally fine. But that still
2:06:31doesn't mean it's okay to just check out
2:06:34on your health. You can have it both
2:06:36ways. You can be like, "Look, I'm not an
2:06:37optimizer. I'm not a maximizer. I'm not
2:06:39that doesn't
2:06:41li live with my ethos." And cool. We can
2:06:45still though say you still want to live
2:06:47that life for as long as possible,
2:06:49right? All right. Let's just make sure
2:06:51we're paying enough attention to where
2:06:52nothing catches up and we're not waking
2:06:54up one day and being like, "Oh my gosh,
2:06:57now I've got to go invest all these time
2:06:59and resource energy and all those things
2:07:01and go backwards in that." So pay
2:07:02attention enough.
2:07:03>> How important is it to get clear on your
2:07:05why?
2:07:06>> You're not going to love the answer
2:07:09because
2:07:10traditionally when people approach me,
2:07:13they already have that figured out.
2:07:15They're getting to me. they figured out
2:07:17why they're here or they're if they
2:07:19haven't figured it out, they at least
2:07:20have had the motivation to seek outside
2:07:22counsel like that.
2:07:23>> Mhm.
2:07:24>> So now they're getting to the what and
2:07:26how part.
2:07:27>> What about bad goals? I I look back at
2:07:30my life and I had some bad goals that
2:07:31set me up for
2:07:32>> that's more realistic to what we will
2:07:33do.
2:07:34>> Okay.
2:07:34>> And this is a you're aiming at the wrong
2:07:37target.
2:07:37>> I was aiming at my goal when I was 20 I
2:07:39think it was 27 was to go to the gym
2:07:41every day and I failed.
2:07:42>> Oh yeah. Yeah.
2:07:42>> I failed six months later but then once
2:07:44I failed it was catastrophic for me. How
2:07:45are you not going to fail?
2:07:46>> Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. And
2:07:48>> like were you going to go every day the
2:07:49rest of your life?
2:07:50>> It was a terrible goal because the day
2:07:52that I missed one day cuz some flight my
2:07:56it was like my entire motivation was
2:07:57over.
2:07:58>> Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
2:07:59>> And I was like, "How do I get back on
2:08:00the horse now?"
2:08:01>> Yeah. Here's an example. You want to
2:08:02lose fat.
2:08:04>> Your goal is fat loss. Cool. Why aren't
2:08:06you leaner right now? And you
2:08:09automatically think, "I have to exercise
2:08:10more and diet." And I'm like, "Great.
2:08:12That's the tactic.
2:08:14I want to know why you're not there
2:08:15right now.
2:08:17>> Like what is the thing that's actually
2:08:18getting in the way? Because like
2:08:20calorie, fine. Like yeah. Yeah. Like you
2:08:21know that though, but it's not working.
2:08:24What is really in the way? Do we
2:08:27actually have some hidden stressor? Um a
2:08:30lot of times people will say things like
2:08:32I I got to lose fat so I can get
2:08:34healthy.
2:08:35>> And we will generally say you need to
2:08:37get healthy first
2:08:40>> and then the fat loss will be a whole
2:08:41lot easier. That's the bad goal. And and
2:08:44so we'll ask this question like, "What
2:08:46would success look like? What would
2:08:48failure look like?" And when we hear
2:08:50things like, "Oh, success is I'll lose
2:08:52these 25 pounds." All right, great. Let
2:08:55me ask you this.
2:08:57If we lost 12 pounds and then your
2:09:00shoulder pain went away, you have normal
2:09:03bowel movements now for the first time
2:09:04in 10 years. Your energy is way up.
2:09:09Is that all a failure? No. That's
2:09:11success. So then we didn't just find
2:09:12success properly.
2:09:13>> So it is a huge focus of of how we help
2:09:16people actually make progress in those
2:09:18areas that they've struggled with. Dr.
2:09:20Andy Galpin, we have a closing tradition
2:09:22where the last guest leaves a question
2:09:23for the next, not knowing who they're
2:09:24leaving it for. And the question left
2:09:25for you is, if you were sure to fail,
2:09:31what would still be worth doing?
2:09:35What a great question.
2:09:36>> Yeah,
2:09:37>> fantastic question. I am
2:09:41ultra competitive,
2:09:43but I really don't mind losing. So, my
2:09:46answer to that question was, it sounds
2:09:48like a copout, but it's all of it cuz I
2:09:51actually don't care about failing that
2:09:52much. It just doesn't bother me. Like, I
2:09:54just like the competing thing. I like
2:09:56the doing thing. So, my initial reaction
2:09:58to that was like, God, being around my
2:10:01kids, right? There's you fail anything
2:10:03you want there. And I'm like, winning,
2:10:04right? And then I went to business
2:10:06things and I'm like I don't even really
2:10:07care about losing those like
2:10:10>> cuz you get to do it. You get to be
2:10:11active and whatever. So kind of a cop
2:10:12out but my answer would be all of them
2:10:14man. Like
2:10:16>> the process is dope.
2:10:17>> The podium is the process.
2:10:18>> Yeah man.
2:10:20>> Or the process over the podium.
2:10:22>> Dr. Andy Galbin, thank you so much.
2:10:24Thank you. You're held in such high
2:10:25regard by everybody. I think there's two
2:10:26reasons. I think it's so you're so
2:10:27deeply obsessed with this subject matter
2:10:29for reasons that we talked a lot about
2:10:30last time, but also I think the essence
2:10:34of your motivations is so unbelievably
2:10:36pure. You before we started recording
2:10:38you were saying to me how like you
2:10:40you're really not that concerned with
2:10:41the business side of things because what
2:10:43you'd love to do is just be focusing on
2:10:44the research, the education, and the
2:10:46coaching. And I think that says a lot
2:10:47about you and it comes through. People
2:10:48understand that you're just deeply
2:10:49obsessed about this stuff in a way which
2:10:51allows us to benefit tremendously from
2:10:54all the work that you have done. and
2:10:55you're a wonderful synthesizer of very
2:10:58very complex things. So please carry on
2:11:00doing what you're doing. If people want
2:11:01to go and listen to your show or if they
2:11:03want to go consume more of your stuff,
2:11:04if they want to continue this journey
2:11:05with you, where do they go? Where's the
2:11:07best place to send them?
2:11:08>> Well, first of all, thank you for those
2:11:09kind words and to be invited back. It's
2:11:11it's a huge opportunity. I will never be
2:11:14ungrateful for it. Uh my podcast is
2:11:16called Perform with Dr. Andy Galpin.
2:11:19Available everywhere. and then
2:11:21andygalpin.com and social media,
2:11:23Instagram and all that stuff is probably
2:11:24the easiest way to follow along.
2:11:26>> I highly recommend you go and subscribe
2:11:27to Andy's channel and we're going to
2:11:29link it down below now. But it's um it's
2:11:31what you're incredibly rigorous with all
2:11:33the work that you do. Having spoken to
2:11:35Andrew Andrew Huberman, who's a good
2:11:37friend of both of ours. He he's also
2:11:40told me just how utterly obsessed you
2:11:41are with truth and also your mission of
2:11:44helping people become who they could be.
2:11:47Um and that shines through in all of
2:11:48your work. So, please go and subscribe
2:11:49to Andy's podcast as well, perform, and
2:11:52um I shall link all of his other
2:11:54resources below, including some of them
2:11:56that we've mentioned today, including
2:11:57the tests and questionnaires that we
2:11:59talked about. Andy, thank you. YouTube
2:12:02have this new crazy algorithm where they
2:12:03know exactly what video you would like
2:12:06to watch next based on AI and all of
2:12:08your viewing behavior. And the algorithm
2:12:10says that this video is the perfect
2:12:13video for you. It's different for
2:12:14everybody looking right now. Check this
2:12:16video out and I bet you you might love
2:12:18it.

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