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Family Betrayal, Teacher Murdered in Strongsville | Jeffrey Scullin Interrogation — Transcript

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0:00Disclaimer. This video is for commentary
0:02and educational purposes only. All
0:04individuals are presumed innocent until
0:07proven guilty in a court of law. Any
0:09footage used in this video is obtained
0:11through public records and falls under
0:13fair use for the purpose of reporting,
0:15analysis, and public interest. Inside
0:17the interrogation room, detectives laid
0:19out Jeffrey's story piece by piece. He
0:22said he tried keys at the door, rang the
0:24bell, entered with Bruce, and eventually
0:26found Melinda upstairs face down. He
0:29claimed he shook her foot, told everyone
0:31not to touch anything, and called 911.
0:34But detectives weren't convinced. They
0:36circled back to every detail, asking why
0:38he never knocked even though a car was
0:40parked outside. Why his movements
0:42through the garage and patio didn't line
0:44up, and why his phone calls, texts, and
0:47gas stop left troubling gaps in his
0:49timeline. Again and again, they told him
0:52this wasn't about planning, but about a
0:54reaction. A single moment that spiraled
0:57out of control.
0:59They pushed him to admit it wasn't
1:00intentional. Jeffree refused. He said he
1:03didn't remember, that he was confused,
1:05that he would never hurt anyone. As the
1:07contradictions mounted, the detectives
1:09read him his rights, placed him in
1:11handcuffs, and continued pressing for
1:12the truth. Jeffree sat shackled to the
1:15chair, repeating his innocence while
1:16investigators bore down on every
1:18inconsistency.
1:24>> Okay, back again. You okay?
1:26>> Yeah. Okay. How's your head feel? A
1:28little better?
1:30>> A little bit.
1:30>> Good. Good. Do you need any more food or
1:32anything?
1:33>> Nothing.
1:33>> Okay. Do you want any more water or
1:35anything?
1:36>> Nothing.
1:36>> Okay. Hey,
1:38let me tell you. Take a look at this.
1:42This is what we want to do tomorrow.
1:44I'm not going to do you do any more
1:46testing with you tonight, but this is
1:48what I want to do tomorrow. Okay? But to
1:51do that, let's get let's get an
1:53understanding of what happened so we
1:54know what we're going to be testing on.
1:56Okay? so that I can test you on have you
1:58not made a truthful statement. Okay.
2:02Okay. So the two issues that I asked you
2:05to think about were this the the
2:07shooting. So what you tell me in your
2:10own words uh what happened with the
2:12shooting and then uh then we'll try to
2:15talk about the reason
2:20the why factor.
2:22So I'm just going to listen. So tell me
2:26about the shooting and then we'll get an
2:28understanding of that and then we'll
2:30talk about the Y factor and then uh
2:34we'll wrap we'll wrap some of it up and
2:36then uh we'll come back tomorrow to
2:38finish up on the on the testing.
2:41>> I think I'm being taken somewhere
2:42tomorrow. I don't know if I'll be here.
2:45Oh,
2:46>> if we want you here, we'll we'll we'll
2:47get you here. I'll talk to a prosecutor.
3:01I know it's not easy. I know it's not
3:02easy.
3:12She
3:14went downstairs and found that stuff,
3:17I'm pretty sure. Or she was looking
3:18through stuff.
3:19>> Oh, okay.
3:21She also had uh a piece of paper that
3:27Aurora might not have been mine for the
3:28longest time.
3:31>> What's that?
3:32>> Oh,
3:33>> an infidelity committed on Anna's.
3:36>> Okay. Okay.
3:39>> Which was
3:41an iffy subject with me and Anna.
3:43>> Okay.
3:45>> She found that
3:47and the
3:49gun the knife.
3:51>> Okay. And then what did she say?
3:56>> I don't remember to be honest.
3:57>> Was she threatening to
4:00So she's down in your room. She's
4:04She sees the guns. She sees the knives.
4:07She has She sees You said some paper.
4:09Did she have the paper or is this paper
4:11you and Anna had?
4:13>> It was a paper me and Anna had. I don't
4:15know where it is, but she said she saw
4:16it.
4:17>> Okay. And it was on a paternity test.
4:20Yes.
4:20>> Okay. So, are you in Are you Aurora's
4:23father?
4:24>> Yes.
4:24>> Okay. But she's kind of speculating that
4:27maybe you're not.
4:29>> Yes.
4:30>> Okay. So,
4:32>> that's sorry.
4:33>> Okay. No, no, that that's great stuff.
4:36So, that goes to the why. Okay. So,
4:38she's
4:39>> I don't remember what happened after
4:40that. I'm sorry.
4:41>> That's fine. Well, you know what? You
4:44did pretty well on breaks. I'll, you
4:45know, we'll talk about it some more. Uh,
4:48I'll give you a break.
4:49>> I'll get I mean when I left the room to
4:51just give yourself some time to to
4:53think.
4:53>> I can't I don't know what's wrong with
4:55me. I can't remember at all.
4:57>> You know what? You are remembering and
4:59that's sometimes how our memory works.
5:01It works slow and it
5:03>> was at the gas station and I'm so
5:05confused.
5:07>> Well,
5:09I'm not going to say that you weren't
5:10necessarily at the gas station. You
5:13weren't at the gas station at the time
5:15that you told the police you were. Got
5:17him.
5:18>> Right. Do you understand that?
5:19>> No.
5:20>> Okay. I'm sorry.
5:21>> You you told the police you were you you
5:23left the house around 3
5:26>> after after Kyle got off the bus. That
5:29never happened. Okay. But you told the
5:31police you did and then you ran out of
5:34gas for a period of time and then a good
5:37Samaritan came and then after he gave
5:41you some gas or which you purchased then
5:44you drove over to get to fill up to to
5:46put some more gas in your vehicle,
5:49right?
5:50>> Okay. That might have happened but it
5:52didn't happen in the time frame you said
5:54it did.
5:56Okay. So I'm going to ask them to go
5:58back and check all the time for the
6:01entire day.
6:04But but that's not even a even something
6:06that's germanine for us. Okay. The real
6:10issue is just like you said, uh Melinda
6:14is was in your room. She saw the guns.
6:17What did she say about the guns?
6:19>> Uh she didn't she just found that one.
6:22>> Oh, okay.
6:23>> But I don't even remember that one being
6:24there. I don't know. Well, you did
6:27remember it there because you just told
6:29me she found the gun that was in the
6:31room. Was there a fight about it? Was
6:33she threatening you with it?
6:34>> She just asked why it was there.
6:36>> Okay. So, she asked why the gun was in
6:38the house. Maybe she's like saying why
6:41would you have a gun in this house? Cuz
6:42there's a baby in the house or something
6:44like that. What? What was she saying
6:46about the gun?
6:47>> She just asked why it was there. But
6:49that's okay. Why?
6:50>> She asked about the test and everything.
6:54And then what'd she say about the knife?
6:56>> Nothing.
6:56>> Okay. But you said she found the knife.
6:59What do you mean she found the knife?
7:00Cuz the knife was with the gun.
7:02>> Yes.
7:03>> Okay. Okay.
7:06>> I don't understand. I can't remember
7:08what happened afterwards to be honest.
7:09>> Okay. So, she's in your room. She finds
7:13the gun that ultimately was used that
7:16that was used in the shooting. She found
7:18the knife. She found the knife cuz it
7:20was with the gun. She found a a
7:22paternity test. Mhm.
7:24>> Okay. But the paternity just shows that
7:26you're the father.
7:27>> Yeah.
7:28>> Okay.
7:32Well, obviously
7:35and and you are the father.
7:36>> Mhm.
7:37>> Okay. Good. Good. So, something happened
7:41where she went she must have left, ran.
7:45Maybe she she must have threatened you.
7:47She must have did something because she
7:49she was ultimately uh you know injured
7:52in the back. Okay. So
7:54>> back.
7:57What?
7:59>> Well, did you shoot her from the front
8:01or from the back?
8:03>> I don't know.
8:06I don't know.
8:07>> Well, I know she was she was lean she
8:10was found. How was she found? Face down
8:13or face up?
8:16>> I don't know.
8:17Well, right. But you were there. I mean,
8:19you you found her, right, with with
8:22Bruce,
8:26>> right? Just you two, right?
8:29>> Yes.
8:30>> Okay.
8:30>> Yes.
8:31>> Okay. Was she face down, meaning her
8:33face towards the the the floor, or was
8:36it looking up?
8:39>> Uh uh down.
8:41>> Okay. Okay. So, my understanding are the
8:43wounds were in the back.
8:46Maybe they came from the front. I'm I'm
8:48not That's up to you. That's what I want
8:50to find out from you.
8:53But it sounds like she finds the gun,
8:56she gets upset, she finds the, you know,
8:58the knife's there. She's concerned about
9:00this fraternity test. And
9:04this creates a lot of anger in you. As
9:06you said, it makes me mad. And you know,
9:11maybe you maybe you grabbed the gun and
9:13then it went off. Is that what happened?
9:15Is that when you grabbed the gun and it
9:16went off?
9:18>> Yes.
9:19>> Okay. Okay. Well, okay. And how many
9:24times do you remember shooting it?
9:26>> I don't remember.
9:28>> Okay. I grabbed the gun.
9:33It went off.
9:39Uh,
9:41did she continue out of the area or did
9:46it when the gun went off, where were
9:48you? Were you in the in your area, your
9:50living room, the kitchen? The the
9:53I don't know.
9:54>> Okay.
9:56I grabbed the gun, it went off. You know
9:58what? We're still we're still not
10:00addressing the same issue of why
10:03what what made you so mad
10:07what what is so embarrassing to you that
10:10what is so what is so bothersome that
10:14when you grabbed the gun and it went off
10:16it's because you were so mad what was
10:18that reason that caused you to be so mad
10:25>> I'm sorry what
10:27>> what was the reason why you grabbed the
10:30gun and then it went off and ended up
10:33shooting her. What was the reason for
10:35that? That's what I want to understand.
10:36That's what we we need to let Aurora
10:38know.
10:41>> She picked it up and kind of didn't
10:44necessarily point it at me, but pointed
10:46it near me.
10:47>> Oh my god.
10:49>> It wasn't at at me.
10:51>> So, she was threatening you. You took it
10:53as
10:53>> she was screaming at me.
10:55>> Okay.
10:55>> I don't know.
10:57>> She screamed. So she picked up right
10:58now.
10:59>> That's I'm So my head hurts so bad.
11:03>> Okay. So she's screaming at you. She
11:05picks up the gun, points it in your
11:08direction.
11:11What do you do? Do you grab it from her?
11:14>> That's where I don't understand.
11:17>> Oh, you got it somehow.
11:20>> What's that?
11:20>> I just reached up and grabbed it.
11:22>> Okay. I reached up and grabbed it.
11:28And then
11:30and and that's when you responded and
11:33and it went off.
11:36So you felt threatened by her
11:40>> for a minute. Yes.
11:41>> Okay. Okay. I felt uh threatened
11:49by her
11:53and and and that's what made you is that
11:56what made you so mad?
11:57>> No. She was yelling
12:00Aurora isn't yours. Aurora isn't yours.
12:08Just a million things. Okay. So,
12:13she's she's down there. She finds the
12:15paper. She sees the gun. She picks it
12:18up, points it at you.
12:19>> She She pointed it like at my feet.
12:22>> Okay. She points the gun at your feet
12:24and she's yelling at you, "Aura isn't
12:26yours. Aurora isn't yours."
12:29Is that Is it Did I understand that
12:32right?
12:32>> Yes.
12:33>> Okay. And And that's when you grabbed
12:35the gun and it went off.
12:39Yeah.
12:40>> Okay.
12:44>> I didn't even know it had anything in
12:46it.
12:46>> Right. Okay. I grabbed the gun. I think
12:49it I I knew I think I knew the one was
12:51loaded down there, but I didn't think it
12:53was
12:56It went off. I didn't think it was
12:58loaded.
12:59>> No, I didn't. I didn't know.
13:01>> Okay. I was that one.
13:03>> Okay. I didn't I didn't know that one
13:04was loaded. Okay. Let me write that
13:06down. That one. And which gun was that?
13:09I don't know. I don't know.
13:15>> Was it the revolver or the
13:16semi-automatic?
13:22>> What
13:22>> was it? A revolver or a semi-automatic?
13:25You're you're familiar with the guns.
13:26You know,
13:27>> revolver. Sorry.
13:28>> It was a revolver. Okay.
13:31So earlier you told me that you have a
13:36uh it the the revolver that you had was
13:38a 357 or the 44 Magnum. Was that it? Was
13:42it one of those two or was it another
13:44revolver?
13:45>> It was that one.
13:47>> Okay. Okay.
13:49And what did you do with that 40? Did
13:51you put it back into the bag?
13:54>> Yeah.
13:55>> Okay. Did you clean it?
13:57>> No, I didn't touch it.
13:59>> Okay.
14:01Just put it back.
14:03>> Okay.
14:07>> Okay. And and the police the police sees
14:10Did they they have that bag?
14:12>> Yeah.
14:13>> Okay. Okay. So, it was a revolver that
14:16was used. You didn't realize that it was
14:18loaded. She And I'm going to go back.
14:21She originally was angry cuz she didn't
14:24think Aurora was your child. She grabbed
14:27the weapon, was pointing at your feet.
14:30Uh, and as she was screaming at you, you
14:32grabbed the gun and it went off.
14:39Uh, and uh, I didn't think that one was
14:42loaded. It was a revolver. It's a 357 or
14:4445. Are you sure in the 357 or 40? It
14:47was in a nine or a 22 or any?
14:49>> I don't know.
14:50>> Okay. But it's the one in the bag.
14:53>> Yeah.
14:54>> Okay. It's the one in the bag. And
14:56that's the black bag that which the
14:57police have.
14:59>> Yeah.
14:59>> Okay. And then tell me about tell me
15:02about the what happened with the knife.
15:05Was you still so mad that
15:06>> I don't I don't know what that that's
15:08what I don't understand.
15:11>> Well, typically
15:13what that psychologically represents is
15:16a lot of anger and frustration.
15:20And and I'm thinking that anger and
15:23frustration is stemming from her trying
15:26to take Aurora away from you
15:29by her insinuation that you're not the
15:32father.
15:36That's what that's what I don't
15:37understand her.
15:39>> What's that?
15:39>> I don't know. That's what I don't know.
15:48>> Okay.
15:50Well, I'll tell you what.
15:53>> Sorry. I'm not trying to
15:54>> No, you're doing you're doing a
15:56fantastic job. Do you see how your
15:58memory is is coming back?
16:00>> And it is.
16:01>> It's confusing though.
16:03>> Right. So, well, I understand and now I
16:06understand why the anger's coming
16:08because basically your daughter,
16:11somebody is trying to rip your daughter
16:13away from you. And that's not right.
16:16That would that can make a lot of people
16:18very angry. A lot of people that want to
16:21defend their child and defend their own
16:24life.
16:29Is everything that you've told me so far
16:31the truth?
16:32>> Yes.
16:33>> Okay. Would you pass another test if I
16:35tested you on that? We're not going to
16:36do that tonight.
16:37>> Yes.
16:37>> Okay. I'm going to go tell the
16:39prosecutor that. I'm going to talk with
16:41them and I I want you to think about the
16:44knives cuz we have to talk about that.
16:45We can't ignore that.
16:48Okay.
16:49>> And if if it was, you know, in a fit of
16:52rage, I I stabbed her too with the knife
16:54because I was so mad, then so be it. If
16:57it was some other situation, but we have
16:59to know
17:00>> some other situation.
17:02>> I don't know. Only you know.
17:04>> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't understand. She
17:06>> Okay. So, you realize she was stabbed,
17:10right?
17:12>> Yes.
17:12>> Okay. The the police didn't make that
17:14up.
17:16You don't need to see any stab wounds,
17:18right?
17:19>> No, I don't want to see.
17:21>> Okay. Okay. I'm going to leave for just
17:22a few minutes here and then what we're
17:24going to do is I just want to talk about
17:26the stab thing and then I'm going to
17:28I'll have you write your letter to
17:30Aurora. I'm going to have you hand write
17:31your letter to Aurora, letting her know
17:33the truth. Now, are you her dad?
17:36>> Yes. Okay, good. Okay.
17:39>> It was it was something that I tried to
17:42get Ann to do for months with the
17:45wedding closing in. It was it was like
17:48last month she actually did it, but
17:50after being like ever since she was
17:53born, long before she was born, I
17:55questioned.
17:56>> So, why was why was Melinda screaming at
17:59you that you weren't the dad when you
18:01had a letter that freaking showed you
18:02were the dad?
18:03>> I don't understand.
18:04>> Did she not read it right? Maybe she
18:06didn't read it right.
18:07>> I tried to say.
18:09>> Okay.
18:10>> It was, but she said no. No, no,
18:14>> okay.
18:16Okay. So, she's trying to destroy your
18:18family.
18:21Okay. I'm going to step up for just a
18:22few minutes. Okay. And then I'm then
18:24I'll have you uh uh Well, you know what?
18:28here.
18:32Why don't I Why don't I have you start
18:34here so you can get a little bit going
18:36and uh
18:38>> Okay. Okay. I'll be right back. Okay.
18:41>> I'm sorry.
18:42>> No. Hey,
18:45are you telling me the truth?
18:47>> Yes, sir.
18:47>> Okay. Then you're doing a great job.
18:49It's the only thing I want to hear is
18:51the truth. Okay. Hang in there. Okay.
18:55Hey, do you need anything?
18:58>> Okay, hang on. Hang on.
19:19Just come on for a second here.
19:22[Music]
19:29Okay. Hey, couple couple things I want
19:32to talk to you about. I talked with the
19:34um uh some of the agents or some of the
19:37investigators. The 357 that they had was
19:41not the not the gun used in the
19:43shooting.
19:45>> No, there's it's the
19:53It wasn't the big big one. There was
19:55another one.
19:55>> Oh, okay.
19:56>> The little revolver.
19:58>> Where did you put it? Cuz
19:59>> in the bag,
20:00>> it's that is not that small a small 357
20:04like a 38.
20:05>> Uh maybe.
20:07>> Okay. So, there's a small 357 revolver
20:11that is not was not recovered in the
20:13bag. So, we got to get that back because
20:17we can't have that sitting around. If
20:19you threw it in the lake, fine. You
20:20threw it in a lake. If you threw in a
20:21trash can, you threw it in a trash can.
20:23But we can't let some kid
20:24>> in the bag.
20:25>> Okay. It's not in the bag.
20:32>> Right.
20:37>> You understand? For public safety.
20:39>> Yeah. I got to They got to think.
20:42>> Okay.
20:45Was
20:48it silver or black?
20:51>> Black.
20:52>> Okay.
21:49Yeah, because that that's important not
21:52only for you but it's it's more
21:53important is to nobody gets hurt by that
21:56and if if you
21:58and sometimes people get scared and they
22:00hide them or they throw them places or
22:02they do that. We got to get it back.
22:04>> I know. I'm thinking I'm thinking
22:06>> plus it verifies what you said too.
22:09>> What do you mean it verifies what? So it
22:11just it cooperates what you're saying.
22:13>> Nobody's going to say, you know, hey,
22:15his statement is not truthful because he
22:18told us about the 357 and then this is
22:20where he put it. Oh, okay. That's fine.
22:22That what that's what happened.
22:24Otherwise, it's like, oh, okay. So,
22:42I put it somewhere,
22:45>> right?
22:47>> I thought I put it in the bag.
22:48>> Okay.
22:50>> I'm sorry. Give me a minute.
22:51>> No, that's fine. I think that's fine. Is
22:53it in the house?
22:56>> I don't know. Okay. No, you took stuff
23:00out of the house, but I don't think I
23:01took it.
23:02>> Okay.
23:03>> I can't
23:12Well, I'll give you as much time as you
23:14need, but that's a public safety issue.
23:16So, we'll we'll have to address that one
23:17first before we move on to the other
23:19stuff.
23:20>> It has to be downstairs somewhere then.
23:23>> Okay. Let's think about where it is
23:24downstairs.
23:28I thought I put it in the black bag.
23:30>> Okay, it's not in the black bag.
23:37>> Are you Are you absolutely sure it's in
23:39the house? Let's Let's I just want to
23:41eliminate the public safety issue cuz
23:43that's going to send people crazy.
23:44>> Yeah.
23:45>> Okay. So, it's it's definitely
23:46downstairs. Where'd you put it? Where'd
23:48you put it downstairs?
23:50>> I thought I put it in the bag.
23:52>> Okay. You didn't put it in the bag.
23:57Where else do you put them? Downstairs
23:59when
23:59>> Just in that bag.
24:00>> Okay. It's not in the bag.
24:04>> I'm sorry. I'm trying to think.
24:05>> That's No problem.
24:08>> But we have we have to deal with that
24:10issue. We have to eliminate the only way
24:12we're going to eliminate the public
24:14safety scare is by getting it.
24:17>> What do you mean scare? to make sure
24:19that there's not a gun sitting out there
24:20that some six-year-old's going to find
24:22and point at his friend and blow his
24:24head off.
24:27So, cuz you got to remember that's
24:30always going to be the worst case
24:31scenario.
24:33>> Yes.
24:33>> Okay.
24:36And this is not a threat. I I don't But
24:40you also will bear responsibility if
24:42it's outside somewhere and it's it's
24:45used to hurt people. You know, you
24:48can't. That's just that's why I say it's
24:50a major public
24:52safety issue.
24:53>> We took bags out of the house.
24:55>> Okay.
24:56>> We took a paperwork bag out of the house
25:00in a like two book bags.
25:02>> Okay.
25:04>> Out of the house. And we put them in uh
25:11my car, my laser.
25:14>> Okay.
25:15>> It could be there. Okay. So, it's
25:18possible. Where where's your laser?
25:20>> It's parked at my mother's house. Anna
25:22Anna has the keys in her car right now.
25:24>> Okay. Would you get permission?
25:26>> I can't get permission. My mother owns
25:28the car.
25:29>> Okay. Okay. Your mother. Okay. So, where
25:34would you put it in the car? In the
25:36where are the bags in the car?
25:38>> Just we threw everything in the back
25:40seat.
25:40>> Okay. So, that's is that where you think
25:43you put it? In the paperwork bag or the
25:45two book bags? Which one?
25:47>> In a book bag.
25:48>> Okay.
25:49>> There's a book bag that I used for work.
25:51It's got zip ties in it so I could zip
25:54tie cords together. And
25:56>> what color is the book bag?
25:59>> Black. It was next to the one bag.
26:01>> And what color is the other book bag?
26:05>> Uh, the other bag's a duffel bag.
26:08>> Okay.
26:09>> It's got just paperwork in it.
26:11>> Okay.
26:11>> It's should be right in the back seat.
26:13>> Okay. So, you have a I don't know what a
26:16book bag looks like. So,
26:18>> it's a bag just goes on your back
26:22bag.
26:22>> Like a uh napsack. Uh a bag
26:26>> like a school bag almost. You know, you
26:28put your books in it and you put you put
26:30it on your shoulder.
26:32>> Yeah.
26:32>> Yeah. Okay. Like a Oh, what the hell is
26:34that called?
26:37>> Okay. And uh so that's where the 357 is.
26:41>> Whatever it is, I don't know.
26:42>> Okay. Okay.
26:44Okay. And then you It's right in the
26:46duffel bag. What color is the duffel
26:47bag?
26:48>> It's black.
26:48>> Okay. So,
26:49>> that just says my like paperwork from
26:51the house.
26:52>> Okay. And then this this paperwork bag.
26:54What is that?
26:55>> It just has like birth certificates. Uh
26:58minor,
27:00>> social security cards.
27:02>> What is What is this paperwork mean? Is
27:04it Is it a Cuz you told me you have a
27:06paperwork bag. Is that the duffel bag?
27:09>> That's the duffel bag.
27:10>> Okay. Okay. Thanks. And then
27:12>> it just holds all my paperwork for the
27:14past two years.
27:15>> So you have a duffel duffel uh a duffel
27:19bag and then you have a book bag.
27:23>> Yeah.
27:23>> Okay. No other no other bags.
27:25>> No.
27:25>> Okay. And those are currently in your
27:27laser. And you remember that the the
27:30weapon the the pistol the black small
27:32pistol which you believe possibly could
27:34be a 357
27:35is in the your book bag.
27:37>> Yes.
27:38>> Okay. And we have and you have to talk
27:39to your mom for that for permission.
27:42They can go get a warrant, but we just
27:44want to get it. Make sure nobody gets it
27:46and gets that gun goes takes it or
27:47anything silly.
27:49>> I don't think anyone.
27:50>> Okay. Okay. Um
27:52>> that's the only place I can think of I
27:54thought was in the bag.
27:56>> Are you sure?
27:58>> Yeah.
27:59>> Okay. Okay. You're truthful on that? I I
28:02they just they just there's no room on
28:04that just because safety issue is, you
28:06know, with kids getting killed on the
28:07street, you know, just
28:08>> horrible.
28:10>> Okay. Uh let's talk about the knife.
28:13Tell me what happened on the knife
28:14issue.
28:17>> I don't know. That's
28:24>> Was it in the fit of anger? That's
28:26That's when she was stabbed.
28:28>> That's when I don't know. I just
28:32>> well
28:34to think
28:34>> okay
28:36well let me go pass on this knife thing
28:39I mean the the gun thing so they'll know
28:41so they can act on they have to and we
28:44don't want that and I'll come back we'll
28:45talk about the the knife thing
28:54let me
29:12I got a key. I got to get a key.
29:22>> Okay. Thanks,
29:33[Music]
29:34Okay, back keys here. Hey, this is
29:38uh I told them that what we talked about
29:40and they said we have to get uh a
29:43search. We're they're going to go get a
29:45search. They're going to go get but they
29:47need you to fill this out even though
29:49you you don't have consent to it.
29:52>> I'm not going to Uh, so you would say I
29:58write your name, authorize, just put the
30:01Strongsville Police Department, just
30:03circle it, and then you describe the
30:05vehicle and and where it's at. Your I
30:07don't know your mom's address,
30:08description, and then the the property
30:11is the same. And then description, just
30:13a I guess a small black uh revolver,
30:17possibly a 357.
30:22Okay, I'll be right back.
30:36[Music]
30:42Okay, ready. Sign. Uh, let me ask you a
30:46quick question here. Uh, small revolver,
30:48black. Okay. Um,
30:52the paternity test.
30:55Who did that?
31:00>> I don't know.
31:01>> I mean, who who paid for it then?
31:03>> Uh, me and Anna went together with the
31:06baby.
31:07>> Okay. Uh, you don't know where it was
31:10done?
31:11>> She arranged the whole thing. She can
31:13>> Okay.
31:14>> She can.
31:15>> Where's your record of it then? Where is
31:18that in the duffel bag?
31:19>> No, it wasn't in the duffel bag. It was
31:20just laying around downstairs.
31:22>> So, would Anna have that?
31:25>> I don't know about the I think I had the
31:28piece of paper, but I'm sure if you
31:31called the police, they could tell you
31:33>> the what?
31:34>> The place. She put it on a card, too.
31:36>> On her card.
31:38>> It was like
31:40a credit card.
31:41>> Whatever card she uses.
31:43>> Okay. And well, she'll know about it,
31:45right?
31:45>> Yes. Okay. Okay.
31:56Okay.
31:58Yeah, they they can talk with Anna about
32:00that, right? She's cool about that.
32:04>> What's that?
32:05>> I don't know, but yeah, just ask her.
32:07>> Okay. Um,
32:08>> she knows the place.
32:10>> Okay. And you said she put it on what?
32:12Her credit card.
32:13>> The card with the puppies on it. Card
32:15with puppies. Okay. One of the credit
32:17cards.
32:18>> I think it's your debit card.
32:19>> Okay. And when did she get this done?
32:24>> A month ago.
32:25>> Okay. And how much did it cost?
32:27>> Not much.
32:29Maybe 100 bucks.
32:30>> Okay. Approximately $100.
32:32>> Okay.
32:32>> That was the excuse for the longest time
32:34that I found out that part of all this
32:39there's a good chance the kid wasn't
32:41lying
32:42uh when she was about 6 months pregnant.
32:45Okay.
32:47>> Well, there's just some speculation that
32:48she wasn't yours,
32:50>> right?
32:51>> Yes.
32:51>> Okay. But the test shows she is yours.
32:54>> Yes. The test showed there was
32:55speculation that she didn't do it until
32:57like a month ago.
32:58>> Okay.
32:59>> Which did cause some problems.
33:01>> Okay. Okay.
33:02>> Between us, but not any physical sharing
33:06those lines.
33:07>> So,
33:07>> just arguments.
33:09>> Okay. Well, let's let's get that knife
33:11situation out out of it. What what's
33:13what's the what's the story with the
33:15knives now? Was it just a a fit of rage?
33:18You know, in the in the heat of the
33:20passion, I'm just going to shut up and I
33:21just want just tell me.
33:23>> Yeah. So,
33:24>> what's that?
33:26>> I just kind of saw right after that. It
33:28was all
33:30I don't really understand it was doing.
33:34>> Okay. So, so
33:38I'm sorry. I didn't hear it. I What?
33:41I kind of just saw red after the first
33:44initial.
33:45>> Okay. After shooting her
33:47>> ass just went off.
33:49>> Okay.
33:50>> Too bad that I don't.
33:52>> Okay. Um so I'll put here I I saw red.
33:56Um I just went off. Is that what you
33:59said?
34:00>> No, after it just after
34:04>> I just saw
34:06>> Okay.
34:06>> I don't know.
34:07>> Okay. How many times do you think you
34:10stabbed her? I don't know.
34:12>> Okay. You think it was more than 10?
34:14>> I don't know.
34:16>> Okay. Okay. But you do recall stabbing
34:19her?
34:21>> I think so. Yes.
34:22>> Okay.
34:24And it wasn't it wasn't a conscious
34:27thing. It was just just in the fit of
34:30anger.
34:33>> Okay.
34:36Okay.
34:40Um, where did where did all this take
34:43place?
34:47>> In the kitchen. Okay.
34:52Okay.
34:53Okay.
34:57Absolutely no premeditation, right?
35:01>> Okay. So all this is just about
35:07frustration because Melinda was was
35:12yelling and screaming at the that you
35:14weren't the father. She saw the gun.
35:17Did she run upstairs with it or No,
35:20>> she when she walked back in, she had it.
35:23I think she when she went
35:25I think she got it before she left. I
35:28don't understand that part. I don't know
35:30when she went downstairs.
35:32Okay. So, you guys were downstairs
35:34initially when she pointed the gun at
35:35you?
35:36>> No, we were all the whole time. We were
35:37upstairs.
35:38>> Oh, in the kitchen?
35:39>> The whole time?
35:40>> Oh, okay. This all happened. Okay. So,
35:44initially So, she had she So, she had
35:47both the gun and the knife.
35:49>> Yes. Knife was sitting on the counter.
35:51>> Okay. Had gun and and and the knife was
35:55on the counter.
35:57And did she have the gun in her hand or
35:59was that on the counter as well? It
36:01>> was on the counter at first, then she
36:02picked it up.
36:03>> Okay. Counter. And then she also had the
36:06paper, paternity paper.
36:09>> I don't know about that one.
36:10>> Okay. So, she she the knife. You walked
36:13in. She had the gun and the knife on the
36:17counter. Then she grabbed the gun in her
36:19hand.
36:21>> Mhm.
36:21>> Okay. And then she was screaming at you
36:23that you weren't the father. And I
36:26wasn't the father that I a whole bunch
36:29of other stuff.
36:30>> Well, what was some of the other stuff?
36:32>> I shouldn't be here. I shouldn't be a
36:35part of our life.
36:37It all makes sense now.
36:39>> Hang on. Shouldn't be here.
36:45>> Okay.
36:48So, she's she's yelling at you uh that
36:52you're not the father. uh that you were
36:54not the father, you shouldn't be here.
36:58Uh you shouldn't be a part of her life,
37:00meaning Anna's life.
37:02>> I think so. The baby.
37:04>> Okay. Or or or Okay. And then uh Oh, did
37:09did she mean Anna or Aurora?
37:11>> I don't know.
37:12>> Okay. Okay. Shouldn't be part of her
37:14life. And then then she picked up the
37:17gun and pointed it at your feet.
37:20>> Okay.
37:22Okay.
37:29Okay. And that's when you disarmed her.
37:33I just reached over and grabbed there.
37:35>> Okay. I grabbed gun.
37:40And what did she do? Because you said
37:44she was You told me you found her on the
37:47kitchen face down. So, did she turn and
37:50that's when it went off?
37:53I don't I can't I don't know. I don't.
37:57That's when it's all gets blurry and I
37:59don't understand.
38:00>> Okay. Do you remember? Was she stabbed
38:03in the front of her or the back of her?
38:07>> I don't know.
38:08>> Are you sure?
38:10>> I I don't know.
38:12>> I mean, I know.
38:13>> I just don't know.
38:17>> What's that?
38:18>> I just don't know.
38:20>> Okay.
38:23Okay. Well, I'll tell you what. Let me
38:26give you some time and then here's what
38:28we're going to do. Um, I'll have you
38:31write it up in your own words. You know,
38:33just the kitchen situation. Hey, they
38:36came in. Uh, the gun was on the counter.
38:40The knife was on the counter.
38:42>> You have to do that right now. No, you
38:45don't have to do it right now. I'd like
38:46to so we can have it so we can figure
38:48out what we want to do the testing on
38:52because and we may not need to do any
38:54more testing if they find the gun. I
38:55don't know. What you mean on me? I
38:59don't.
38:59>> Right. We're not going to do any more
39:00testing tonight. No way. But tomorrow
39:04you
39:10>> Is that okay or not?
39:12>> Okay. I don't know what to do anymore.
39:14>> Okay. Well, I'll tell you what. Let me
39:16step back. Let me let them know and then
39:20uh I'll be right back. Okay. You want
39:22anything to drink or eat?
39:24>> I'm okay.
39:25>> You okay?
39:26>> Okay.
39:49Okay. Sorry about that.
39:52Set a key. So,
39:55okay. Um,
39:58let's talk about the knife. Uh,
40:02where did where did you put it when you
40:04Cuz
40:05>> I don't know. I don't
40:06>> tell tell me why you put it where you
40:08put it.
40:09>> I don't even remember putting it
40:11anywhere to be honest.
40:12>> Do you know where it was recovered at?
40:14>> No.
40:15>> Okay. I I want you to tell me where I
40:17know where it was recovered at.
40:19>> I don't know where I put it.
40:23I don't
40:26I think the detective said I put it in
40:28the truck.
40:30>> Do you remember that?
40:31>> No.
40:32>> Okay.
40:38I want I know this part is painful, but
40:41you're doing a good job. Um, if you
40:44don't want to uh, you know, do an
40:46apology letter, you don't have you
40:47don't, you know, you don't have to. I I
40:50personally think it's important just
40:51because it shows your daughter, you
40:53know, now this date.
40:54>> I will do that.
40:55>> Okay. Um
40:59Okay. Um,
41:03do you remember
41:07when when when you shot her? Um, Melinda
41:11or I I know it's painful the stabbing
41:14part. Um, if she was looking at you, was
41:18she standing up? Cuz
41:19>> she was looking at me when it went off
41:21and then after that I don't know what
41:23happened.
41:23>> Okay. Okay. And how about on this? Okay.
41:26So, when the gun went off, uh, gun off.
41:29She was looking at you. Okay.
41:33And I don't know
41:35because they're going to, you know,
41:36they'll do an autopsy, right? And I know
41:38they've already done an autopsy, but I I
41:41don't I'm not privy to any details of
41:43it. Do you understand?
41:46>> Uh, yeah.
41:47>> Okay. They done You know what an autopsy
41:48is, right?
41:50>> When they look at your body,
41:51>> right? Right. They look at projection
41:53and they look where the entry was, where
41:55the exit point was. I just don't want
41:57your statements to be contradicted.
41:59>> I'm not. No, that's what
42:02>> Okay. And then and then on the knife
42:04wounds,
42:06I understand you saw red,
42:09was she on the ground when you stabbed
42:12her or was she standing up when you
42:13stabbed her or was she leaning on
42:15something when you stabbed her?
42:18>> I I don't know with that. I'm sorry.
42:20It's all That's where I don't know
42:22>> cuz I don't want you to be embarrassed
42:24by it.
42:25>> Be embarrassed by what?
42:27>> By by seeing red.
42:30>> No, that's I'm sorry. That's
42:32>> okay. That's fine. Okay.
42:34>> I couldn't tell that one.
42:36>> Okay.
42:38>> Okay. Um and that's just part of the
42:41red, you know, when you know that's the
42:43and the red goes off when somebody's
42:44threatening your family. Okay. Um,
42:50what how what do you I'm going to I'll
42:54give this to you then to write to
42:56Aurora.
42:59>> I don't know if they'll let me take it
43:00back there.
43:02>> Oh, back to yourself.
43:03>> I don't think they'll let me.
43:04>> Well, then just do it now. I I'll tell
43:06you what. I'm going to leave then. I'm
43:08going to even give you some private
43:09time.
43:09>> I don't know what to write right now. I
43:11I can't right now.
43:12>> Okay. Okay. Well, then you don't have
43:14to. Um, I I wish I could. I just came in
43:18right now.
43:19>> Okay. Okay.
43:21Do you Are you interested tomorrow then?
43:23Would you feel better tomorrow?
43:26>> Okay. Okay. Well, let me go pass that on
43:28to them. Okay.
43:31>> I'm writing a letter for Oh, wait. What
43:34is this?
43:35>> Oh, it's just their form. It's just
43:36their form. You could do it on a pen
43:39piece of paper. I just didn't have any
43:40big piece of paper.
43:45I just can't right now. I don't think
43:46I'd be able to.
43:47>> Okay. No, no, that's fine. You, you
43:50know, I think you've been very helpful.
43:52Um, I think we have a better
43:54understanding. And here's ultimately
43:56what I'm going to articulate when they
43:59ask me is is
44:01you come home. Uh, was was the baby in
44:05the house or in the car when all this
44:06happened?
44:07>> She was in the car.
44:08>> Okay. Okay. So, uh, this is when she
44:12comes home. Okay. Baby and car.
44:15And what was Kyle doing?
44:18>> I don't really know.
44:20>> Okay.
44:21And how long do you think it took for
44:23all this to happen?
44:28>> I I don't know.
44:29>> Okay. Quick, slow?
44:31>> Very quick.
44:32>> Okay.
44:44Okay. Um, and basically this is what
44:47what I'm going to talk to them just
44:48about the incident. I mean, we have a
44:49lot of historical say saying, "Hey,
44:51look, she came home. Was she angry when
44:54she came back from the doctors or uh did
44:58you guys have any bad words or you know,
45:00hostile words or something or was there
45:02bickering going on?" She when she came
45:04in, she came stopping
45:09and she started saying everything about
45:10that.
45:11>> Wait, hang on. She came She came in
45:13upset.
45:14>> Yes.
45:15>> Okay. So, she returned from doctors
45:17upset. She was hostile towards you.
45:21>> Yes.
45:21>> What was she saying?
45:25>> Uh, she's like, "Oh, you got anything to
45:27tell me at first?
45:29>> You You got anything?"
45:30>> And I said, "I don't know. No, I didn't
45:33know what she's talking about.
45:36>> Okay. I don't know what you're talking
45:38about.
45:39>> And after that, she like, "Oh, so you're
45:41not her father or whatever." And it went
45:43from there to there to there.
45:45>> Hang on. Hang on. I can't I don't know
45:47what they So, I said, "I I don't know
45:50you're talking about." Um, I say, "I
45:53don't know what you're talking about."
45:55And then she says, Melinda says, "You're
45:58not the father.
46:00Do you leave? Do you start getting angry
46:02at her and that's when you decide to try
46:04to get out of the house?
46:05>> That's when I left and then I came back
46:07in to get more stuff for the baby cuz I
46:09couldn't leave without any of her stuff.
46:11>> Okay. So I left. So did you take the
46:13baby and put her in the car?
46:15>> Yes.
46:15>> Okay. Left house, put baby in car.
46:19And then you returned to get baby items.
46:22>> Yes.
46:23>> Okay. I returned
46:26to get baby items. And that's when you
46:29and you went back into Did you go back
46:31in? Is that when you saw the gun in the
46:33knife on the counter?
46:35>> Yes.
46:36>> Okay. And so you went back in. What did
46:38you go in the kitchen to get for the
46:40baby?
46:40>> I had You have to walk past through the
46:42kitchen to get to the living room.
46:44>> Okay. So I had to uh go through kitchen.
46:52That's where we kept all the baby stuff
46:54that's in the living room.
46:55>> Living room
46:57where baby stuff is where baby
47:02stuff is. And so when you're in the
47:04kitchen, that's when you saw the gun and
47:07counter and that's when she started
47:08screaming at you again that you're not
47:10the father. And that's when she uh
47:20and previously and that's when the whole
47:23situation happened.
47:25>> Yeah.
47:25>> Is that correct?
47:26>> Okay.
47:27>> Okay. Okay.
47:31Screaming point gun. Okay.
47:36Grabbed
47:39and shot and stabbed.
47:42Okay. So, what I'll pass on then is in
47:46reference to the incident. She comes
47:48home from the doctor. She's upset. Uh,
47:52she's making comments to me. Uh, you got
47:56you got anything to tell me? I said, I
47:58don't know what you're talking about.
47:59She says, "You're not the father." I
48:02started getting upset and leaving. Took
48:05the baby.
48:08That's when I walked out.
48:09>> Okay. I walked out. I put the baby in
48:12the car, meaning the truck.
48:13>> Yes.
48:14>> Okay.
48:14>> I didn't have any of my stuff, though.
48:16The truck just happened to be unlocked.
48:18>> Okay.
48:19>> Uh I returned to get baby stuff. When
48:21you say baby stuff, what does that mean?
48:24>> Diaper bag.
48:24>> Okay. Diaper bag.
48:25>> Bottle. Baby food.
48:28>> Okay.
48:28>> Diapers and wipes. Spare.
48:31>> Okay. Outfits. Okay. And that's in the
48:34living room, which you have to go
48:35through the kitchen. So, you go through
48:37the kitchen. That's when you uh that's
48:39when you see the gun and the uh and the
48:41knife on the counter. That's when she
48:43starts screaming, "You're not the dad."
48:45She grabs the gun, points it at your
48:47feet area. You grab it from her and
48:50that's when when you shoot her, the gun
48:52goes off. And then because that happens,
48:55you see red and that's when you picked
48:56up the knife and and stabbed her. And
48:59then you uh took the stuff and left.
49:01Took got the baby stuff and left.
49:04I just picked up the nearest baby bag
49:06and I didn't even look to see what's
49:08inside of it.
49:09>> Okay. How did you Did you clean
49:12yourself? How did you clean yourself?
49:14Cuz when you stab
49:15>> clean myself.
49:15>> Oh, you didn't? Okay. Nothing?
49:18>> No, I don't think so.
49:19>> You didn't get any blood on your your
49:20clothes or anything?
49:23>> No, I got I got blood on the
49:28I think on a pair of sweatpants that I
49:29was holding.
49:33I don't know. Maybe. I don't I'm not
49:35sure.
49:37>> And what kind of Where are those
49:39sweatpants?
49:40>> I don't know.
49:41>> Okay.
49:42>> I'm sorry.
49:43>> Do you think they're still at the house?
49:45>> I think so. Yeah.
49:46>> Okay. What color are they?
49:47>> Gray.
49:48>> Gray.
49:48>> I picked up a pair of sweatpants cuz it
49:50was cold.
49:51>> Okay. And where those You think those
49:53are back at Melinda's house or back at
49:55your mom and dad's house?
49:56>> They're not at my mom and dad's house.
49:58>> Okay. Okay. Pause. Did you leave it in
50:01the car or did you drop the sweatpants?
50:03>> I don't know. I'm sorry. I don't
50:05>> Okay. Okay.
50:09>> Okay. Okay.
50:10>> I'm trying to answer it all.
50:13>> Have you told me the truth?
50:15>> Yes, sir.
50:15>> Okay. Are you hiding anything?
50:17>> No, sir.
50:18>> Are you Are you trying to minimize any
50:20involvement or anything else?
50:22>> What is that?
50:23>> You're trying to I'm sorry. My my
50:25mistake. Are you trying to hide what
50:27happened? Okay. And once again, that was
50:30not a planned out thing. You didn't plan
50:32this 3 weeks earlier, a year earlier.
50:34Okay. Okay. Okay.
50:39Okay.
50:42Okay. I'll be back and then we'll try to
50:44get you back to yourself. Okay.
50:55[Music]
50:58All
51:09right. Come with me.
51:11>> Do you need handcuffs?
51:21>> Hang right.
51:22Okay.
51:30Jeff, this is Lieutenant Mason.
51:33Okay. Um Jeff, I'm going to read you
51:35your rights again. Okay. And just tell
51:38me that you understand them.
51:45>> Do you understand that? Before we ask
51:47any questions, it's my duty advisor of
51:49your rights. Okay. Do you understand you
51:52have the right to remain silent?
51:53>> Yes.
51:54Do you understand that anything you say
51:56can be used against you in court during
51:58their proceedings?
51:59>> Yes.
52:00>> Do you understand you have the right to
52:02consult an attorney for making any
52:03statement or answering any questions,
52:05you may have him or her present without
52:07with you during the question. If you
52:08can't afford one, the court will appoint
52:10you an attorney.
52:11>> All right. Do you understand if you
52:13decide to answer questions without an
52:15attorney so the right to stop the
52:16question at any time for the purpose of
52:18assaulting one?
52:20>> I'm sorry.
52:22Do you understand that if you decide to
52:24answer questions without an attorney
52:26here, you still have the right to stop
52:28our question at any time for a purpose
52:30of consulting one.
52:32>> Okay.
52:32>> You can stop us at any time.
52:34>> Do you understand? You may however wave
52:36that right to remain silent. You may
52:38answer questions or make statements
52:40without consulting attorney if you want
52:41to.
52:42>> Okay. Do you understand these rights?
52:45>> Okay.
52:46Give me one second, please.
52:48[Music]
53:03Okay.
53:05All things considered, how are you doing
53:08compared to yesterday?
53:12I know you share some things with Lance
53:14and do you feel a little bit better? Get
53:16some things off your chest while you and
53:18I
53:19>> I'm still confused.
53:21>> What are you confused about?
53:25>> Hey,
53:28after talking to him and looking at the
53:30pictures, stuff started.
53:33I don't know.
53:36I started realizing stuff, but I thought
53:38I left. I still don't understand some of
53:41it.
53:41>> Okay. What can I uh help you understand?
53:44What are you uh confused about?
53:47I thought I was at the Gecko gas
53:50station. I thought I stopped for gas,
53:52but I don't understand.
53:55You know what? I just don't
54:02>> What else? What else are you confused
54:03about?
54:07>> She needs I thought I got there a lot
54:08earlier, but I guess I didn't. if you
54:10guys
54:14I'm just confused about some stuff I
54:16guess.
54:17>> Do you think Jeff and it'd be
54:19understandable?
54:21Um I think that day got out of hand and
54:25I think with the suddenness of things. I
54:29think it'd be easy to lose track of
54:31time.
54:33So I don't think you should beat
54:34yourself up over times. Do you know what
54:37I'm saying?
54:39Yes.
54:39>> Okay. And and like we said yesterday, I
54:43don't I don't need from you like down to
54:45the minute, you know, I wanted to at
54:46least understand what happened that day
54:48and get a general idea of the times, but
54:52I think it's perfectly natural for you
54:54to uh not be able to recall the exact
54:57time. Now, to be off is another story,
55:01but you know, 15 minutes, 20 minutes
55:03here and there, I think that's
55:04understandable. I think that was that
55:06had have been a traumatic day for you,
55:09was it?
55:11>> I guess so.
55:12>> Guess so. Okay.
55:16>> Um,
55:18you want to tell me a little bit what
55:20happened that day? You know, I still
55:22feel and I hope you feel the same way.
55:25Like I said yesterday,
55:27you know, I think I think I think now
55:31what's done is done and now you can
55:33start helping yourself and you know your
55:35family. And I think the only way to do
55:37that well I don't think I know the only
55:39way to do that is to
55:42um
55:45help us understand you know how did the
55:46day go that route? How did how did
55:50things end up that way? and you make
55:52things better when you know eventually
55:54we're going to have to talk to a judge
55:56and they're going to ask the same
55:57questions. They're going to ask me
55:59before you get there what happened. Give
56:01me an idea what happened. They want to
56:02know you. They want to know what
56:04happened.
56:06You know, at the end of the day, it's
56:07not it's not going to be acceptable to
56:12not help a judge understand where you're
56:15coming from. They don't want to know who
56:16you are. You know, it would happen. So
56:21things sometimes happen and you can't
56:23take them back, but you could start
56:26going down the road of making it
56:27somewhat better, you know, for yourself.
56:29So I think that's where we're at. I hope
56:30you share that same opinion.
56:34Um, you know, I'm not here to trick you
56:37or anything like that. I think that's
56:38just a fact. I think anybody that you
56:40talk to is going to tell you, you know,
56:42now is the time to help people
56:45understand what happened because when
56:48the
56:49the day of sentencing comes, they're
56:50going to want to know and they're going
56:52to want to
56:56want to know. They're going to want
56:58they're going to have to answer some
56:59questions.
57:00So,
57:04>> now's the time now's the time to start
57:05helping yourself.
57:07>> When will I be able to to call my family
57:09>> after right after this?
57:11>> Right after this.
57:12>> Yep. Yep. I told you I won't lie to you.
57:15I won't trick you. Um, you know, you'll
57:17have an opportunity to call them after
57:19this. Uh, your dad was here yesterday.
57:22You know, obviously he knows you're
57:23here. I did not talk to your mother. I
57:25spoke to him directly. Um, you know,
57:28they have questions. I want to be able
57:30to give him some answers. You know, you
57:31could do that on your own, but you know,
57:33it was difficult to go to your your
57:36father. I mean, this is your
57:40he raised you. You know, he brought you
57:41into this world. He raised you. And so
57:42it's
57:44it was tough to do that without every
57:46wants to know why. Not only you know why
57:51was done is done. So it's that the
57:53reason why
57:56is is now the the million-dollar
57:58question.
58:00>> I have one more question.
58:01>> Sure.
58:02>> You could leave these on, but can you
58:03loose them a little bit? The lady did
58:04put them on.
58:05>> Yeah, you can do that. Thank you. You
58:08need to be set a certain way or
58:12Why
58:12>> don't you stand up for him, Jeff, if you
58:14could? It'll be a little bit easier.
58:16>> Are they both bothering you?
58:17>> Yeah. Okay.
58:20>> I'm sorry. I think you're a good guy.
58:34[Music]
58:44Thank you.
58:44>> Does that one feel better?
58:45>> Yeah.
58:45>> Okay.
58:51[Music]
58:56That good.
58:56>> Thank you.
58:58Do
58:58>> you want something to drink
59:01or
59:01>> water, please? A
59:03>> water. Get one. Thank you.
59:06>> Okay.
59:12Hey, you want to tell me what happened?
59:17>> When When do you want me to start?
59:23>> We'll start with the day of.
59:26>> Can you Can you take your hands off your
59:28face, though, cuz I can't hear you.
59:29>> Sorry.
59:30>> It's okay.
59:31>> It's killing me. I don't know why.
59:32>> You got a headache?
59:33>> Yeah, I had one last night.
59:36I saw the the aspirin here. Is that for
59:38you?
59:40>> There's aspirin here. She got
59:42>> someone. Yeah, someone kind of last
59:44night.
59:46>> I get uh I get headaches all the time,
59:48migraines. So, you know how it is.
59:57>> Did you think before I leave this going
59:59for a little bit here?
1:00:01>> No, just you know, if you talk to
1:00:03Douggee, he as long as he has
1:00:05everything. Yeah, he's on his way, I
1:00:06think, already.
1:00:07>> Okay,
1:00:09>> thanks.
1:00:10>> Okay. Yeah, let's let's let's start with
1:00:12the day of, you know, what what happened
1:00:14over there? How did it end up the way it
1:00:16did?
1:00:18>> I woke up any other normal day and I
1:00:20woke you up.
1:00:23>> And I woke you up.
1:00:24>> Yeah.
1:00:24>> Yeah.
1:00:25>> She went to work,
1:00:27just watching the baby, playing with the
1:00:28baby any normal day.
1:00:30>> Uhhuh.
1:00:31>> Uh worked on accounting, tried to do the
1:00:34ABCs.
1:00:35didn't work out. Ended up just playing
1:00:37around with her,
1:00:39>> playing with the dogs a little bit.
1:00:41>> Mhm.
1:00:43>> Uh, fast forward a while,
1:00:46Linda comes home, talks, like anything
1:00:49else,
1:00:50just normal stuff, talking about the
1:00:52baby and everything.
1:00:54>> Is this when she comes home at like
1:00:5612:00 or?
1:00:57>> Yeah, whenever she came home.
1:00:58>> And you didn't know she was coming home,
1:00:59right?
1:00:59>> No, she just walked in. Okay. I got up.
1:01:02I was like, "Who's there?" She said,
1:01:03"Oh, it's me." and shut the door.
1:01:07Um,
1:01:10she went upstairs and changed into
1:01:12something else. When I came down, was
1:01:14talking and playing with the baby for a
1:01:16minute cuz the baby went over to say hi
1:01:18to her.
1:01:18>> Mhm.
1:01:20>> Uh, she fed her like a food pouch and
1:01:22then after a while she just left
1:01:26and then I continued playing with the
1:01:28baby.
1:01:33Uh then she came back
1:01:37kind of like
1:01:39just came back, you know, came home.
1:01:41>> Mhm.
1:01:42>> Came inside, was in the kitchen for a
1:01:44minute and went somewhere and came back
1:01:48and she like said all that stuff down on
1:01:51the counter.
1:01:52>> What she sat down on the counter?
1:01:54>> The gun and the knife.
1:01:58And she asked what it was. And then she
1:02:00>> Where did she get that knife and gun
1:02:02from? Where was it? I think it was
1:02:03downstairs. It was downstairs in the
1:02:06bag.
1:02:10It's downstairs in the bag.
1:02:20This stuff that I never like even touch.
1:02:27I'm sorry. Can I have a minute?
1:02:29>> Sure.
1:02:48And then she uh she talked about she
1:02:52asked me if there's anything I needed to
1:02:53tell her and I was like, "What do you
1:02:54mean?" You know, "What are you talking
1:02:56about?" before I saw that
1:03:00stuff. And I guess she met the the
1:03:03paternity test that we took a month ago,
1:03:05maybe maybe a little bit more than a
1:03:07month ago or just under a month ago.
1:03:09>> Mhm.
1:03:11>> It was downstairs. I don't know exactly
1:03:12where. It was kind of just floating
1:03:14around.
1:03:15>> Okay.
1:03:17>> It wasn't really in like anything. It
1:03:18was just I didn't really set it in the
1:03:21paperwork bag or anything like that. I
1:03:23just tossed it down.
1:03:24>> Mhm.
1:03:30And then um
1:03:32she asked me if I was the father and
1:03:35everything. I said yes. That's what the
1:03:37test said.
1:03:38>> Test gave up positive. You were dead.
1:03:41>> Yeah. If if she asks Anna about it, she
1:03:43can give you the information. I don't
1:03:45know where we went.
1:03:47>> Mhm.
1:03:48>> Somewhere over near Ridge something, I
1:03:50think.
1:03:52>> I can't remember.
1:03:54It's like AMC something or
1:03:58it's like this little little store and a
1:04:00little strip by a music shop.
1:04:04>> Okay.
1:04:06>> We went there a while ago. We
1:04:09we kind of had little arguments, me and
1:04:11about it forever cuz I found out that
1:04:13she there's a good chance she wasn't
1:04:15mine.
1:04:17She was like 6 months pregnant.
1:04:20>> Mhm.
1:04:21>> It was way too expensive. Then she said
1:04:23then after she just never did it. She
1:04:26would say, "Oh, we'll do it this day."
1:04:27And then she'd never do it. We'll do it
1:04:28this day. We'll never do it.
1:04:29>> Was it uh was it tough on her when I was
1:04:32born cuz you were sure? Was that tough
1:04:34on you?
1:04:36>> Not I honestly didn't really care about
1:04:38her at first. As soon as I saw her, she
1:04:41was just great.
1:04:42>> She was yours. Yeah.
1:04:45>> It It started to bother me like months
1:04:48down the line.
1:04:50>> Mhm.
1:04:50>> After she was born. Yeah.
1:04:52>> When I started like, you know, thinking
1:04:54about it.
1:04:55>> Mhm.
1:04:57>> I'd ask Anna to she never did it. And
1:04:59then finally we did do it.
1:05:01>> You were asking to do it. Yeah.
1:05:04>> Mhm.
1:05:05>> Yeah.
1:05:07And the results were was great. Great
1:05:09news.
1:05:10>> It was great. Yeah.
1:05:11>> Which was great, you know, made me feel
1:05:14like an idiot
1:05:16>> for questioning her.
1:05:17>> Yeah.
1:05:18>> Yeah.
1:05:26you know, just made me feel like I kind
1:05:28of I just kind of threw it down the
1:05:29paper somewhere down there. I can't
1:05:31remember where. I know it was floating
1:05:33around cuz I found it a few times like
1:05:46>> it's okay. Take your time.
1:06:00And uh
1:06:02and she was yelling at me, screaming at
1:06:04me about
1:06:06me not being the dad and everything. I
1:06:09don't even think she read the paper.
1:06:11>> She was yelling at you screaming at you.
1:06:13Mel was
1:06:14>> Yeah. like her little not like screen
1:06:16scream but like her yell and talk tone
1:06:20like you know
1:06:23oh
1:06:25she called me dad
1:06:29and everything
1:06:32I don't know why
1:06:35but she knew at that time she knew at
1:06:38that time that you were the father and
1:06:42then are you saying that you think she
1:06:44was unhappy about that. Is that what
1:06:45you're telling me? I don't know.
1:06:47>> Maybe. I don't know.
1:06:48>> Okay. Well, she knew you were the dad.
1:06:50>> She read I don't know if she read the
1:06:52paper. It confused me at first when I
1:06:54read it. It's cuz it's like there's a
1:06:57something chance that I'm positive or
1:07:00whatever. The way they did it is stupid.
1:07:02>> I'm pretty sure that paper is still
1:07:04downstairs
1:07:05or I don't even know where it would be
1:07:07to be honest.
1:07:10But
1:07:10>> Jeeoff, are you saying
1:07:12>> when she set the the gun and knife down
1:07:14and asked her something that you want to
1:07:16tell her, you don't think that she knew
1:07:18the results or do you think that she
1:07:20did?
1:07:21>> I'm not sure.
1:07:22>> I don't know if she did. She just
1:07:25she started saying it wasn't the father
1:07:27and stuff it was.
1:07:29>> Okay.
1:07:31>> You guys are in the kitchen still?
1:07:33>> Yeah. All this happened in the kitchen.
1:07:35>> Okay.
1:07:38That's when I walked out with the baby
1:07:40and put her in the car. I had to go back
1:07:42for her stuff cuz I didn't think we were
1:07:44going to come back till late.
1:07:48You can't have the baby get a rash or
1:07:50anything or get sick.
1:07:51>> Mhm.
1:07:54>> I walked in and she screed at me some
1:07:56more.
1:08:00I just threw some stuff in the bag and
1:08:01walked out. Then I had to walk back in
1:08:03for my phone and wallet.
1:08:11When I walked back in, I was sitting
1:08:13right there on the counter. I just tried
1:08:15to grab it and leave. And she kind of
1:08:19screamed and was screaming and she said
1:08:20something and I turned around. I said,
1:08:22"I am the father." Rose is my kid of I
1:08:26don't know exactly what all was said to
1:08:28be honest.
1:08:29>> Okay.
1:08:33And then she picked up the little gun.
1:08:36>> I didn't even think it was
1:08:39I
1:08:50sorry. It's okay. Take your time.
1:09:23She picked it up. K just pointed at my
1:09:26feet.
1:09:28She like pointed pointing at me, but it
1:09:30was enough to be like, "Hey, hey, hey,
1:09:32stop."
1:09:35You know,
1:09:38I reached up and grabbed it by her hand
1:09:48when I was like pulling it back.
1:09:51>> You said you were pulling it back,
1:09:53taking it from her.
1:09:55>> Reached up and just kind of snatched it
1:09:56from her. She wasn't holding it right.
1:10:01>> She wasn't holding it right. I can't
1:10:02hear you, Jess.
1:10:03>> She She wasn't holding it right. I'm
1:10:05sorry.
1:10:06>> Did she just have her hand on the
1:10:08handle?
1:10:09>> Mhm.
1:10:10>> Okay. Nothing on the trigger.
1:10:12>> No, I don't think so.
1:10:14>> I think she was just holding it with
1:10:15like three fingers
1:10:17or handle and then she had her something
1:10:20else or like a fork or something
1:10:23>> in the same hand. She was holding
1:10:26something small in her other hand. In
1:10:28her hand like it's like this
1:10:32>> in her other hand.
1:10:33>> No, this
1:10:35Okay. She has two things in her same
1:10:36hand. Okay.
1:10:38>> Something small and black. I don't know
1:10:39what it was.
1:10:41>> Okay.
1:10:44But um
1:10:47grabbed it when I was pulling it away
1:10:49from her. It kind of just went off
1:10:54after that. That's where it was like,
1:10:57you don't really exactly understand
1:11:00what happened.
1:11:03>> What do you mean you don't understand
1:11:05what happened?
1:11:06>> Everything's all like blurry.
1:11:09I don't know. It's kind of just like I
1:11:11lost control, I think.
1:11:14>> Mhm.
1:11:28Oops.
1:11:35Take your time.
1:11:42I went downstairs
1:11:46and I I thought I put it in the bag. I
1:11:50don't know if you guys found it or not.
1:11:53I hope you did. It's It's either
1:11:54downstairs somewhere or might be in that
1:11:57one bag that I used for work.
1:12:02I don't know.
1:12:06Did you think that you put the the knife
1:12:08and the gun in the same bag?
1:12:13>> No, I don't know. I don't know.
1:12:16>> What? What bag from work are you talking
1:12:17about?
1:12:18>> I
1:12:20I I thought I put the gun in the black
1:12:22bag with all the guns in it.
1:12:24>> Oh, the one that uh you're talking
1:12:26about.
1:12:28>> Okay. You thought I put in there?
1:12:30>> You said no. And the only other bag I
1:12:31think I would put it in
1:12:35was like my work bag which was
1:12:36downstairs on the pool table.
1:12:41>> What's in your work bag?
1:12:43>> Like what would be
1:12:44>> just a pocket knife and like zip ties to
1:12:47zip tie [ __ ] together. I think some
1:12:49cough medicine.
1:12:50>> Mhm.
1:12:52>> Yeah. That's that's the bag that we
1:12:54found the gun in. That's your work bag.
1:12:56>> Yeah. I used to just throw all my stuff
1:12:59in there.
1:12:59>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's where it
1:13:02was. I threw what I throw my wallet and
1:13:04stuff in the one pocket. I have pens and
1:13:07paper in the other in case I need to
1:13:08write something down to remember it.
1:13:10>> Yeah, that's exactly what was in there.
1:13:12The zip ties, cough medicine, cold
1:13:14medicine.
1:13:15>> Yeah.
1:13:16>> Yeah.
1:13:18>> And you don't remember where you put the
1:13:19knife?
1:13:21>> I don't remember any of that. I had a
1:13:24trouble. I I was so convinced that I
1:13:27went to all those places.
1:13:34I just I'm still confused about some
1:13:36stuff.
1:13:36>> Mhm.
1:13:40>> And then what happened when you went
1:13:42downstairs or did you uh what did you do
1:13:44downstairs?
1:13:46>> I just put that stuff away, I thought.
1:13:48And then I left.
1:13:49>> Did you change clothes downstairs?
1:13:52>> No.
1:13:53>> No. Did you have blood on you?
1:13:56>> Uh no.
1:13:57>> No,
1:13:58>> I don't think so.
1:14:00I think I was holding a change of
1:14:02clothes and I just threw them somewhere.
1:14:07I was holding something
1:14:10>> downstairs.
1:14:12>> No, during the whole thing when I picked
1:14:13up clothes, it was cold. I picked up I
1:14:15think a sweatshirt and a pair of pants
1:14:18or something like that. They were slung
1:14:20over my shoulder. Mhm.
1:14:24>> Slung over my left shoulder or right
1:14:26shoulder or whatever. You know, you just
1:14:27throw them over.
1:14:29>> Yeah.
1:14:30That's the only thing I can think of.
1:14:36>> And then when you when you grab those
1:14:38clothes,
1:14:41>> put the gun in the bag, did you take all
1:14:43that with you out of the basement or did
1:14:46you do anything else in the basement?
1:14:48>> No, the baby was outside. I wanted to
1:14:50get outside, I think.
1:14:52>> So, are you telling me you left right
1:14:53away?
1:14:54>> Yeah.
1:14:55>> Did you check on uh Melinda? Did you see
1:14:57if she was breathing before you left?
1:15:00>> I don't know. I don't think so. I don't
1:15:02know.
1:15:03>> Mhm.
1:15:03>> Did you uh secure the dogs or do
1:15:05anything with the dogs?
1:15:06>> They were already all locked up.
1:15:09>> Mhm.
1:15:12>> And then did you leave then?
1:15:14>> I think so.
1:15:15>> Okay. So, I'm not sure.
1:15:18Thought I left before, but then not
1:15:21sure. So,
1:15:25>> could you leave it? After the
1:15:27confrontation with Melinda, how long
1:15:30were you in the house before you left?
1:15:31Do you remember?
1:15:33>> I don't know.
1:15:35>> Did do you do you remember it being
1:15:38quickly?
1:15:40>> I think so. I'm I don't know. I'm so
1:15:42confused about all this stuff.
1:15:45>> I'm just guessing that it was somewhat
1:15:47quickly because Aurora's in the car,
1:15:48right? Why this happens?
1:15:51>> Yeah, I think so.
1:15:53>> Mhm. And where do you where did you go
1:15:56afterwards?
1:16:00>> That's what I don't understand. I don't
1:16:02know.
1:16:04>> Where do you remember going? What do you
1:16:05remember?
1:16:07>> I could swear my life that I got learned
1:16:10at a cast and everything, but I don't
1:16:11>> that I'm sorry.
1:16:13>> I said I before today I could have swore
1:16:15in my life that all that stuff happened,
1:16:17but now I don't think it did and I don't
1:16:19understand.
1:16:20>> You don't think it did? Do you think
1:16:22that that you didn't run out of gas?
1:16:25>> I don't understand.
1:16:27I remember. Like, I remember it, but it
1:16:30doesn't make sense.
1:16:33>> You're not sure if you really did.
1:16:35>> I'm not sure.
1:16:37>> Mhm.
1:16:37>> Where do you remember going um after you
1:16:41left the house?
1:16:52I don't know.
1:16:53I think I went to Genies maybe or I went
1:16:56to
1:16:57I don't know if I went to Genies.
1:17:05I think
1:17:08I think I did. Think you went to your
1:17:10aunts? I
1:17:11>> mean, that's the only place you said I
1:17:13actually went. So,
1:17:14>> you did go there. Yeah, you did go
1:17:16there.
1:17:19You didn't stop down for gas and stuff.
1:17:21>> You don't remember if you actually
1:17:22stopped for gas?
1:17:24>> I thought I did yesterday, but now it
1:17:26doesn't. I don't think I did. I don't
1:17:27know.
1:17:28>> You don't think you did? Um, and I don't
1:17:31I don't know for certain. Um, you didn't
1:17:33go to the CatCo like you uh remember
1:17:35doing, but
1:17:37when you were at Applebee's, you did go
1:17:39to Applebees. Do you remember going
1:17:40there?
1:17:41>> Yeah.
1:17:42>> Meeting Bruce
1:17:44and Anna was working. Do you remember
1:17:45that?
1:17:46>> Yeah. Do you remember putting gas in
1:17:49your in your truck after you guys left
1:17:52Applebee's?
1:17:53>> Yeah.
1:17:54>> So, just knowing that, there's probably
1:17:56a pretty good chance that you didn't
1:17:58actually go to Gecko or run out of gas
1:18:00on the way cuz you needed to put gas in
1:18:02your truck.
1:18:03>> The gas can is in the garage. I think
1:18:09>> you didn't have both cans in the back of
1:18:11your truck.
1:18:12>> No, they were both there. was from when
1:18:15I did the lawns the other day. I threw
1:18:17them in the back of the truck.
1:18:19>> Do you think it's just a chance that you
1:18:21used that gas at Applebees and didn't
1:18:24actually stop at Gecko?
1:18:26>> I remember talking to that guy and all
1:18:28that stuff,
1:18:29>> Daryl.
1:18:30>> That's what I don't understand.
1:18:31>> Talking to Daryl or the Good Samaritan?
1:18:34>> Okay.
1:18:35>> Okay.
1:18:38Yeah. I was just wondering,
1:18:41you know, I know you said the truck is a
1:18:43gas guzzler, but if you really did get
1:18:46gas and stop at Gecko, but you weren't
1:18:49at Gecko, but and then to add gas at
1:18:51Applebees, it just seemed like a lot of
1:18:52gas. It's just going a short distance in
1:18:55a Strongsville. Even being a gas
1:18:57guzzler, um, you know, just when you
1:18:59were telling me, it just seemed like a
1:19:01little bit, uh, could not guzzle gas
1:19:04that much. But, nonetheless, you did put
1:19:06gas in there. Do you remember doing
1:19:07that?
1:19:09>> Where was that?
1:19:10>> You did Applebee's? Yeah.
1:19:12>> I remember pouring a little bit in
1:19:13there.
1:19:14>> Yeah. Yeah. And then your truck right
1:19:17now is between a quarter and empty. So,
1:19:19you have a decent amount of gas in
1:19:20there.
1:19:21>> Yeah. I poured the whole thing in.
1:19:22That's why the whole container.
1:19:29>> Um.
1:19:31>> And what else do you remember?
1:19:41I think I don't know.
1:20:00Take your time. Do you remember anything
1:20:02else about the day?
1:20:06raining all day. Mhm.
1:20:19It was raining.
1:20:35There we go.
1:20:39I don't know what else there is. I can't
1:20:42remember it all.
1:20:44I don't know what's going on.
1:20:48Jeff, back to the house.
1:20:52And you said it when you
1:20:56the first time Linda was shot. Where did
1:20:59it hit her? Where the bullet hit her?
1:21:02>> I don't know.
1:21:03>> You don't remember? Do you remember? She
1:21:04was facing you or was her back to you?
1:21:09>> I think she was facing me.
1:21:10>> She was facing you?
1:21:14>> Do you remember what that caused her to
1:21:16do? Did it cause her to fall or?
1:21:19>> No, I don't. I'm sorry. That's where it
1:21:22gets all
1:21:32everything like fine and then everything
1:21:36like
1:21:44do you remember any
1:21:48when you were pulling the gun from
1:21:51Do you remember her fighting back? The
1:21:53you had scratches on your face. Do you
1:21:55remember her scratching your face?
1:21:57>> No, that was from the day before. That
1:22:01was all there yet the day before.
1:22:04>> That was from the car accident from the
1:22:05day before.
1:22:06>> That was from the car accident or moving
1:22:08stuff. Yeah.
1:22:10>> Mhm.
1:22:11>> That was all there before.
1:22:13>> The I think she pushed me, but that's
1:22:15it.
1:22:16>> She pushed you?
1:22:17>> Yeah. while you're trying to grab the
1:22:20gun.
1:22:21>> Yeah, she is that you're saying?
1:22:22>> Yeah.
1:22:24>> But when I grabbed it, she kind of
1:22:26pushed. But
1:22:28>> that's all I mean I that was all the
1:22:31scratches were from the core.
1:22:36>> But why did you why did you grab the gun
1:22:38from her? I mean, she wasn't even
1:22:40holding it, right? And I'm sure she's
1:22:41not comfortable with the gun, so that's
1:22:43understandable. Um, I just didn't want
1:22:45her to point it at me.
1:22:54Jeff, why did uh
1:22:58>> why did you continue to shoot her?
1:23:03>> You don't understand?
1:23:05>> What do you mean by that? What is that?
1:23:10>> It's like,
1:23:11>> do you remember how many times you fired
1:23:12the weapon?
1:23:13>> I don't. Do you remember how many times
1:23:16you actually hit her, shot her?
1:23:20>> I don't I don't
1:23:23Everything after after it went off,
1:23:26everything kind of just got blurry, I
1:23:28think, cuz I can't even remember.
1:23:32>> Don't understand at least now.
1:23:35>> What do you remember? What else? What
1:23:36else do you remember about the the
1:23:38confrontation after you you shot her?
1:23:43>> We're going downstairs. Roger Hindut
1:23:47report
1:23:52leaving.
1:23:58>> Do you know how Melinda died? Do you
1:24:00know from what?
1:24:03>> What do you remember?
1:24:05>> Kiss me.
1:24:08>> Yeah.
1:24:10But do you know what kind of injuries
1:24:12she sustained?
1:24:17just around the news.
1:24:19>> What did you use?
1:24:23The gun and like the knife.
1:24:26>> The knife.
1:24:28>> Jeff, why did you transition from the
1:24:31gun to the knife?
1:24:32>> That's what I don't know. I don't
1:24:34understand it.
1:24:35>> Was she still alive after you shot her?
1:24:38>> Did you Did you feel the Why did Why did
1:24:40you transition to the knife?
1:24:43I don't know. I don't understand that
1:24:46part. I've never been a violent person
1:24:49or anything like that. I've never done
1:24:50anything to anybody.
1:24:53>> So, you don't know why you reacted that
1:24:54way?
1:24:56>> Don't.
1:25:03>> Do you recall how many times you may
1:25:04have stabbed her?
1:25:06>> No.
1:25:08>> A little or a lot?
1:25:10>> I don't know. You don't remember?
1:25:14Do you remember where she was when you
1:25:15stabbed her? I mean, I know you're in
1:25:17the kitchen, but was she standing up?
1:25:19Was she sitting? Was she laying down?
1:25:25>> I don't know.
1:25:33>> You don't remember?
1:25:34>> Don't remember using the knife.
1:25:36>> You don't remember using the knife? I
1:25:38remember it being there, but I don't.
1:25:43>> Earlier, Jeff, you had said that you
1:25:46thought you put the knife in the bag,
1:25:48but you don't remember using it.
1:25:51>> No,
1:25:52I don't. Everything's all fuzzy and
1:25:55everything. I don't understand.
1:26:03So, right now as we sit here, you don't
1:26:05remember where the knife is?
1:26:07No.
1:26:17>> Jeff, you said that uh Aurora was
1:26:19already in the car when this happened.
1:26:23>> Are you sure about that?
1:26:25>> Yes.
1:26:26>> Where was Kyle?
1:26:28>> He was outside.
1:26:30>> And how do you get outside?
1:26:32>> He followed me outside, I think.
1:26:36when probably outside when
1:26:38>> when I first walked out I think I don't
1:26:40understand I don't know
1:26:41>> do you think um you didn't want Kyle to
1:26:44see something maybe sent him outside
1:26:47>> he wouldn't have listened to me if I
1:26:49asked him to go outside he didn't listen
1:26:50to me
1:26:53>> but you seemed like a a pretty big part
1:26:55of his life and obviously he needs care.
1:26:58You don't think you would have brought
1:26:59him inside back with you? You know, it's
1:27:01kind of you guys got to look out for him
1:27:03and if he gets outside, you gota you got
1:27:05to bring him back in. When he when he
1:27:06followed you outside, you didn't ask him
1:27:08to come back in.
1:27:10>> I don't know.
1:27:12>> Is that something you normally would
1:27:13have done?
1:27:14>> Normally, yeah, but I don't I don't
1:27:16know. He never listens to me. I have to
1:27:18like actually hold him and grab him.
1:27:20>> Mhm.
1:27:26>> But you think he was outside when this
1:27:28happened? or or if you don't know, it's
1:27:31fine. I mean, it's it's if there's
1:27:33things that you don't know, you just got
1:27:34to tell me, you know, that you don't
1:27:36know. So,
1:27:36>> I think so. I'm not sure.
1:27:38>> You're not sure. Okay,
1:27:44>> Jeeoff, from what you know of Kyle, if
1:27:47Kyle saw this, what kind of reaction do
1:27:50you think Kyle would have?
1:27:52>> I don't know.
1:27:53>> You don't know?
1:27:56Do you think it would upset him? You
1:27:58know that somebody's being hurt?
1:28:00>> I don't know. I really don't. Sometimes
1:28:04he understands things, sometimes he
1:28:06doesn't.
1:28:22>> What was Melinda saying to you
1:28:25when this was happening? She
1:28:28screaming, yelling for help, telling you
1:28:30to stop. Do you remember her saying any
1:28:33to you?
1:28:34>> No, I don't remember any of that.
1:28:37>> Do you remember anything saying to her?
1:28:39>> No.
1:28:43>> What about um did you check on her? Did
1:28:46you try to
1:28:49try to give her some help? CPR?
1:28:54>> I don't know.
1:28:55>> Undo things in any way? Did you try to
1:28:58>> I looked at her and I
1:29:05>> I don't know what we did.
1:29:06>> When did you look at her?
1:29:11>> I don't know. After After I came
1:29:13upstairs, I think.
1:29:14>> Mhm.
1:29:16>> And where did you look at her from? Did
1:29:17you go into the kitchen?
1:29:21>> In the dining room area, I think. I you
1:29:24walked up from the basement.
1:29:26>> Okay.
1:29:26>> Sorry. I realized
1:29:28>> your last what' you see
1:29:31>> her.
1:29:34And I don't understand.
1:29:39>> What don't you understand?
1:29:48>> I just feel confused. Really, really,
1:29:50really confused.
1:29:55Did you ever check her paws? Touch her?
1:30:00>> I touched her, but I don't know what I
1:30:02did.
1:30:02>> Where did you touch her?
1:30:04>> Her back.
1:30:07>> Her back.
1:30:09This is after you came from upstairs.
1:30:11>> Yeah.
1:30:12>> Okay. Cuz just before you said you just
1:30:14looked at her. So, but do you remember
1:30:15going up to her now?
1:30:16>> Yeah, but that's all I did. I touched
1:30:18her back
1:30:19>> just to feel for what? I don't know.
1:30:24>> Do you remember how you felt at that
1:30:25time?
1:30:28>> Scared.
1:30:28>> Scared.
1:30:31>> Scared about what?
1:30:32>> I don't know. Just scared.
1:30:39>> That's what I
1:30:44Jeff. It sounds like
1:30:48when Melinda came home uh the second
1:30:51time,
1:30:52I know you're having some time
1:30:54difficulty remembering or recalling. And
1:30:55again, I don't I'm not asking for it on
1:30:57the minute, but
1:30:59would I be mistaken? Does it sound It
1:31:01sounds like this happened pretty quickly
1:31:03after she got home. Would that be true?
1:31:08>> Yeah.
1:31:09>> Uhhuh.
1:31:13Do you remember
1:31:16transitioning? When do you when did you
1:31:18take the gun from your truck and put in
1:31:21a saber? When did you do that?
1:31:27>> I never saw the lightsaber that day. It
1:31:29was down the bag was downstairs
1:31:32underneath the pool table or next to the
1:31:34pool table.
1:31:36>> So you put the gun down there and left
1:31:37it down there in that bag.
1:31:39>> Yeah. And you don't remember what you
1:31:40did to the knife?
1:31:42>> No.
1:31:43>> Okay.
1:31:44>> I think I thought I put it in the other
1:31:46bag with the guns, but I know we grabbed
1:31:49the black bag from the house the other
1:31:51day when we were there yesterday or
1:31:53wherever whatever day we were there.
1:31:56>> You grabbed the the bag with the gun in
1:31:58it.
1:31:59>> Yeah, but I thought it was just my work
1:32:02bag at first, but thinking back on it
1:32:04now, I don't know. And then it's it's
1:32:09Wednesday right now. Um,
1:32:14and I know you guys were there a couple
1:32:15times, either on Sunday or Monday. So,
1:32:17you think on Sunday or Monday is when
1:32:19you you took the gun and put it on the
1:32:21saver?
1:32:23>> I think it was Tuesday or Tuesday.
1:32:26>> Today's Wednesday. So, yesterday, do you
1:32:28think you did it
1:32:29>> before you came in here?
1:32:32>> No, I think it might have been Monday. I
1:32:34don't know. whatever day we got the dog
1:32:36cage and everything.
1:32:37>> Mhm.
1:32:38>> But recently
1:32:39>> Yeah.
1:32:40>> Um just just to give you a time frame
1:32:42because
1:32:45um this all happened a week and a half
1:32:47ago. So you just did this a couple days
1:32:49ago,
1:32:51right?
1:32:54>> Okay. Well, that that would make sense
1:32:55because like I said, I I won't lie to
1:32:57you, but um I went through the saber, so
1:33:00that
1:33:01>> that makes sense. Um, I was surprised to
1:33:05see
1:33:06>> um early I'm sorry, not early, but um in
1:33:09the middle of last week um remember you
1:33:12told me you kind of parked like a dick.
1:33:15You did. So I you know your your dad was
1:33:19calling up here, your mom, and uh
1:33:22>> pissing the neighbors off.
1:33:23>> Yeah. So we uh I went over there and
1:33:26they gave me permission to uh I know
1:33:27it's registered to your mom and but you
1:33:29you're the primary driver. You're the
1:33:30only driver of it really, aren't you?
1:33:33or unless she needs it for something.
1:33:35>> Well, I I uh I was surprised that it was
1:33:38in there. Um we retrieved it yesterday
1:33:41with your help and we appreciate that.
1:33:42That's important. Um you did the right
1:33:44thing. Um but I was surprised it was in
1:33:47there because I've already been through
1:33:49it and it wasn't in there. Um
1:33:52>> I don't think it was in
1:33:54the baby,
1:33:55>> right? That would make sense. So,
1:33:59um,
1:34:00but, uh,
1:34:07let me ask you, um,
1:34:10a question that a lot of people have,
1:34:13the burglary and the other incidents
1:34:15there. Why were you doing those things?
1:34:18>> Doing what things? I I swear I saw
1:34:21somebody, but I think I did it. I don't
1:34:23know.
1:34:25>> Well, how would that happen?
1:34:28because you're not under, you know, I
1:34:30understand maybe not remember anything
1:34:31from the day of. It's it's it had been
1:34:34and it is extremely traumatic, but but
1:34:37the Thursday before this happened when
1:34:39you said that someone tried to break in,
1:34:43you know, like I said, I'm not going to
1:34:44lie to you that um you know that
1:34:46playground in the backyard.
1:34:47>> Yeah.
1:34:48>> It it really does have it really does
1:34:50have a camera. And I know you didn't
1:34:51know that, but it really does. And um
1:34:54you know
1:34:57it it's it's pointed right at the back.
1:35:00Um
1:35:03so
1:35:05why do you why did you do that? Cuz no
1:35:07one understands that. I don't understand
1:35:09that.
1:35:11>> I could have swore someone would say.
1:35:12That's what I don't understand.
1:35:17>> Yeah. It's unusual too. Like with that
1:35:19in mind, um I mean a lot of times people
1:35:22think about burglary and you know back
1:35:24in the day they they come in at night
1:35:26when you're sleeping and that's you know
1:35:28when your TV would be gone or um DVD
1:35:32player you know nowadays it's it's it's
1:35:35during the day when you're not home and
1:35:39you know they they knock they see if
1:35:41you're home they don't want a
1:35:43confrontation.
1:35:44Um, so it was just at the time was even
1:35:47unusual to us because like I said,
1:35:50normally they go to your front door to
1:35:51even see if you're home and if you are
1:35:53home then they rather they rather go to
1:35:55a house that doesn't have anybody there.
1:35:58So that video
1:36:01camera captured that day and you could
1:36:04see uh Detective Deren came there and
1:36:06he's looking at the door and processing
1:36:08the scene and I know you told your aunt
1:36:11that uh moose bid him and you know none
1:36:14of that stuff happened. There's nobody
1:36:15at at your sliding glass door at 11:00
1:36:18in the morning. I think they have around
1:36:2111 that you called. So that really
1:36:23didn't happen. You know, I'm not lying
1:36:25to you. Um, so why did why did you do
1:36:29that? Nobody understands.
1:36:32>> I don't understand. I thought
1:36:35I thought
1:36:41Should I wait?
1:36:42>> What's that?
1:36:43>> Should I wait? You guys are good. No,
1:36:45it's
1:36:47>> I don't understand.
1:36:51I thought someone was there.
1:36:57And then the the the car alarms going
1:37:00off. And you know that was you. Why? Why
1:37:04do you
1:37:07>> I didn't take any keys.
1:37:14When you when you went back to the door,
1:37:16Jeff, after Applebee's,
1:37:18I'm sure you were pretty scared because
1:37:20you knew this is now all of a sudden it
1:37:23come to a head and is going to find out.
1:37:26Um,
1:37:28>> did sorry,
1:37:30>> what you guys went back to the house
1:37:32after Applebees and you know, and now
1:37:34you know that Bruce is going to see
1:37:35Melinda. Were you afraid to go in that
1:37:37house? Did you not want to be the first
1:37:38one in the house and didn't didn't want
1:37:40to open that door?
1:37:42>> I don't. That would be understandable.
1:37:44Do you remember? Do you think you could
1:37:46have got in that house so that the key
1:37:48worked?
1:37:51>> Do I think what
1:37:52>> do you think you could have got in that
1:37:54house? Were you pretending that uh did
1:37:55you just not want to be the first one in
1:37:57there?
1:37:58>> No. The keys to your work?
1:38:00>> No.
1:38:02>> Keys wouldn't open. You could test them
1:38:04yourself in the truck somewhere.
1:38:07>> Okay.
1:38:08>> Threw them down in there and the
1:38:10floorboard.
1:38:16I don't think I understood normalized.
1:38:18>> I'm sorry.
1:38:20>> I don't know if I realized everything
1:38:22was actually happened or going. I don't
1:38:25know why. I'm still
1:38:36Jeeoff. You describe the family as being
1:38:38great and everybody taking you in and
1:38:40you know outside the normal butting
1:38:43heads. If if you and I and Lieutenant
1:38:46Mason
1:38:48live in the same under the same roof,
1:38:50it's inevitable we we butt heads. So
1:38:52outside of that, did you have a a good
1:38:54relationship with Melinda?
1:38:57>> Yeah.
1:38:58>> Yeah.
1:38:59>> And Bruce.
1:39:01>> Yeah.
1:39:01>> And Anna, everybody. I didn't really
1:39:03talk much to Bruce most of the time, but
1:39:05when we did, it was always nice.
1:39:07>> Uhhuh.
1:39:08>> Um,
1:39:10talked to them more than anything cuz
1:39:12she would always come home and stuff
1:39:14like that.
1:39:16>> She'd always come home and we'd talk
1:39:17about stuff and everything.
1:39:20>> She seemed we've talked to a lot of
1:39:22people, she seemed very excited about
1:39:23the wedding. Is that true?
1:39:26>> Yeah.
1:39:26>> Yeah. Were you excited about the
1:39:28wedding?
1:39:29I was, but
1:39:32same time it was kind of iffy for the
1:39:34longest time.
1:39:35>> Iffy how?
1:39:36>> Because of the test.
1:39:38>> Mhm.
1:39:38>> The paternity test.
1:39:40>> So naturally, you wouldn't be married.
1:39:42Well, I shouldn't answer for you. I'm
1:39:44sorry. Would the wedding have still gone
1:39:46forward if if if you were not the
1:39:48father?
1:39:49>> No. That was one of the big things.
1:39:51>> They wouldn't know. Is that what you're
1:39:52saying?
1:39:53>> Yeah.
1:39:53>> Is that from you or
1:39:55>> That was from me.
1:39:56>> From you. And who else knew that? Anna
1:39:58knew that. She wouldn't tell her parents
1:40:00anything.
1:40:01>> Okay.
1:40:02>> That's why she waited so long to do the
1:40:04test, which was freaking us out.
1:40:06>> How did Melinda find out about the
1:40:08paternity test?
1:40:10>> I don't know.
1:40:11>> Why Why do you think she was questioning
1:40:13you?
1:40:15>> I don't know if Anna told her. I don't
1:40:16know.
1:40:17>> I'm sorry.
1:40:17>> I don't know if Anna told her. I don't
1:40:19know if she found the paper or whatever.
1:40:21>> Mhm. Do you think that's what she was
1:40:24when she came up and
1:40:26uh put the gun down, the knife, and she
1:40:29asked anything you want to tell her?
1:40:31What do you think she was referring to?
1:40:33>> I think she she she
1:40:35didn't say when I said I told her,
1:40:38"Don't worry, that's it's not loaded.
1:40:40It's everything is safe downstairs. It
1:40:42was only going to be here for a little
1:40:44bit."
1:40:45And she's like started screaming,
1:40:48"You're not the father. You're not the
1:40:49father." M.
1:40:50>> So I took that as you want to talk about
1:40:53that when the other stuff
1:40:55>> more than a gun and a knife.
1:40:57>> Yeah.
1:40:59>> Mhm.
1:41:11>> At least that's what I took it as.
1:41:16When you were at the house, Jeff, do you
1:41:19remember moving things, setting anything
1:41:22up?
1:41:23>> What do you mean?
1:41:24>> Well, you know, once once Belinda was
1:41:26dead, I'm sure your mind was racing. Do
1:41:28you remember?
1:41:32>> I went downstairs.
1:41:35That's it. I went downstairs and I came
1:41:37up and I walked out.
1:41:42Is there a way to turn these lights down
1:41:43or something? My eyes are killing me.
1:41:45There's not. I apologize. They're not on
1:41:47dimmers, but you know how you feel.
1:41:49Yeah, that helps. It
1:41:50>> does.
1:41:51>> Um,
1:41:54do you remember using Melinda's phone?
1:41:58>> No, I don't think I did. I might have. I
1:42:01don't know.
1:42:01>> You might have
1:42:03if I if I told you about a certain text
1:42:06message, that would help you.
1:42:09>> Uh, sure. Do you remember texting Bruce
1:42:13for him to meet Melinda somewhere?
1:42:16>> No.
1:42:17>> Using her phone? Why do you say you
1:42:19might have used her phone?
1:42:21>> Everything was all blurry for the
1:42:22longest time. I couldn't still having
1:42:25trouble trying to figure out what
1:42:26happened.
1:42:27>> Mhm.
1:42:28>> What's not real and what's real, I
1:42:30guess.
1:42:31>> Yeah. Well, I could help you out with
1:42:32what's real and not real.
1:42:34>> You know, like the gas station if you
1:42:36have questions. Um, you know, we have
1:42:39strong reason to believe that you
1:42:41actually used her phone. You don't
1:42:42remember doing that? Cuz you said you
1:42:43might have. There's that.
1:42:45>> I don't think so, but I I could be
1:42:47wrong.
1:42:47>> You could be wrong.
1:42:49>> You never used her phone in the past,
1:42:51correct? You have your own.
1:42:52>> Yeah. I don't know her colored or
1:42:54anything, so I don't know how I would.
1:43:06Okay.
1:43:11Well, tell me tell me how you feel right
1:43:13now. I mean, after looking back and
1:43:16everything, thinking about Melinda.
1:43:19>> Sick to my stomach.
1:43:20>> You're sick to your stomach.
1:43:23And why is that?
1:43:26>> This never hurt anybody before.
1:43:35She was just drove away. Left everything
1:43:38in there.
1:43:39>> Mhm.
1:43:43>> Linda was,
1:43:46you know, I'm not going to sugarcoat it.
1:43:48Was was brutally attacked.
1:43:52>> I never even heard anybody before.
1:43:56and hearing that what would how would
1:43:59this happen that she so verbally
1:44:01attacked
1:44:05>> I don't understand
1:44:06>> because
1:44:07I don't believe that it was an
1:44:08accidental shooting at first because
1:44:11that is one thing and that's something
1:44:12where you could
1:44:15you could do a anment
1:44:18and
1:44:20get her help call come to us and say
1:44:23this this was a complete accident
1:44:27and we're not sitting here. But when
1:44:30she's shot multiple times and stabbed
1:44:32numerous times, that changes things. So
1:44:36that just leads me to believe that the
1:44:38first one wasn't accidental because the
1:44:42your actions afterwards
1:44:45suggest completely suggest otherwise.
1:44:48>> That's what I don't know. I know it went
1:44:50off. I don't
1:44:52>> I mean, do you think you were just so
1:44:54angry that you shot her once and then
1:44:58there was that, oh, what' I just do? And
1:45:00then did you feel you couldn't turn back
1:45:03or she's going to tell somebody? And I
1:45:06don't
1:45:08don't know. I've never done anything.
1:45:13I don't know.
1:45:25Am I right that the the first one
1:45:26probably was an accidental?
1:45:28>> I don't know.
1:45:29>> You don't know? Okay.
1:45:32>> I never hurt somebody. I just didn't I
1:45:35don't know what I did. I don't know why.
1:45:39>> You don't know what you did or why.
1:45:51[Music]
1:45:57Sorry, my eyes are killing me.
1:45:59>> I I
1:46:02I get headaches and migraines all the
1:46:03time. My eyes are sensors in a light as
1:46:06well. And these hallogen type lights,
1:46:09they don't help.
1:46:13What else? What else would you like to
1:46:14tell me? I appreciate I think this is
1:46:18this is what I was talking about
1:46:19yesterday. I mean, I think this is a a
1:46:21big step in the right direction. I I Do
1:46:23you feel better talking about it? Not
1:46:26following it up.
1:46:28>> What What are you thinking? What would
1:46:29you like to say to me?
1:46:32>> I I don't feel better, but I don't I
1:46:36don't think I know what to happen still.
1:46:38I'm still very confused.
1:46:40>> You don't feel better?
1:46:44I feel better kind of knowing what
1:46:46happened, I guess. But otherwise,
1:46:47though,
1:46:50>> I don't understand. I went I
1:46:53feel like I remember going right to the
1:46:55gas station after that guy helped me,
1:46:57but I don't think it happened.
1:47:00>> Well, the guy last night said it didn't
1:47:02happen. Didn't happen.
1:47:04>> Yeah. No, I mean, I told you that. And
1:47:06like I said to you yesterday, that that
1:47:08camera on the back and gecko's camera
1:47:10and you know there's Applebees and um
1:47:14um you know and eventually like I said
1:47:16like a lie letting for me to hide you
1:47:18know eventually like your GPS
1:47:19coordinates will come back. It hasn't
1:47:21come back yet. So we'll know your exact
1:47:22route because you asked me about that.
1:47:23Aren't you going to find out and we will
1:47:25I don't have that right now. So um you
1:47:28know obviously I know you went to your
1:47:29aunts. Um I did want to know when you
1:47:32put that gun in there and you answered
1:47:34that for me and that makes sense. So
1:47:35that happened. Um, you know, the things
1:47:38that I know are factual, you already
1:47:40know.
1:47:41>> Okay.
1:47:42>> But I don't understand. I like remember
1:47:44it. That's what I
1:47:45>> But you seem And listen,
1:47:48that that is an
1:47:51a whirlwind of a day, you know, but you
1:47:53seem stuck on the gas and where you went
1:47:56where I'm on a different page and I'm
1:47:59I'm at the house.
1:48:00>> Just confused what you remember it.
1:48:03That's all.
1:48:05Mhm.
1:48:05>> Yeah. I don't know. But do you
1:48:07understand? I'm I'm on a little bit
1:48:08different page here. A much different
1:48:09page. You know, I'm concerned about the
1:48:11house, not if you got gas or not.
1:48:13>> It's okay.
1:48:15>> What else? What else do you want to
1:48:17know?
1:48:17>> Well,
1:48:19I mean, did I miss anything? I mean,
1:48:20what is there something that you know
1:48:22that I don't know or something you'd
1:48:23like me to know?
1:48:25you know, I'm trying to just piece
1:48:26together what happened there and and you
1:48:28have a
1:48:30you know, you're having difficulty
1:48:31remembering exactly how it happened, but
1:48:34you know, I'm asking you to to remember
1:48:36it.
1:48:38>> I don't know if there's anything else.
1:48:45>> I don't know.
1:48:46>> You know
1:48:49what else would there be?
1:48:53Well, like I said, you know, I don't
1:48:56believe that the first shot was
1:48:57accidental. I just want to know what's
1:48:58going through your head after that first
1:48:59shot, how you felt.
1:49:02>> You're not sure if it was or not. And
1:49:05>> I don't know what happened after the
1:49:07first shot.
1:49:08>> I wanted to know why why you
1:49:10transitioned from the gun to the knife.
1:49:14>> I don't know.
1:49:16>> How many times did you stab her?
1:49:18>> I don't know that.
1:49:20>> Where was she laying? standing, sitting.
1:49:23>> That's everything after the first shot's
1:49:26like,
1:49:27it's almost like a dream, I guess. I
1:49:29don't know.
1:49:30>> Well, what's in that dream?
1:49:33>> What was the dream? What do you remember
1:49:35doing?
1:49:37>> I remember shooting her, but that's kind
1:49:39of
1:49:41after that it's kind of like
1:49:44I just go upstairs.
1:49:47That's all.
1:49:50You're telling me that you remember
1:49:51shooting her and then the next thing you
1:49:54remember is going downstairs.
1:49:56>> Yes.
1:49:57>> Okay.
1:50:00>> I don't remember stabbing her.
1:50:04Don't remember doing that.
1:50:06>> You stabbed her
1:50:09a lot.
1:50:12>> Remember doing that?
1:50:17>> Do you want to know how many times she
1:50:18was stabbed?
1:50:20No.
1:50:21>> No.
1:50:23I remember doing that.
1:50:27>> Do you want to know how many times she
1:50:29was shot?
1:50:30>> I want to know.
1:50:31>> You don't want to know?
1:50:38>> What would you like me to tell the
1:50:39family and your family?
1:50:42>> I don't know right now.
1:50:45I don't know.
1:50:50you feel
1:50:52you you have a lot of questions. I
1:50:53understand you know I'll answer whatever
1:50:55I can for you. Do you have something
1:50:56that you want to ask me? Something
1:50:58that's on your mind besides the stopping
1:51:01at Gecko and uh the old gentleman that
1:51:04gave you gas?
1:51:06>> I don't know.
1:51:11>> I don't know.
1:51:24I don't know, Jeff. I'm a little
1:51:27concerned for you. Um because you know
1:51:30when you you're going to leave our
1:51:32police department here, we're going to
1:51:33you're going to probably go down to
1:51:34county jail and um Detective Stoultz has
1:51:39been very forthcoming with working with
1:51:41you to try to resolve everything. And
1:51:44I'm just concerned that once you leave
1:51:46here that you won't have an opportunity
1:51:48to talk to him.
1:51:50>> I don't know what else to say. Well, I'm
1:51:52just making sure you understand that you
1:51:55have a real good chance now to to to
1:51:58open up and release the information that
1:52:00you have in your brain and and let him
1:52:03know because when he when you leave here
1:52:05and he's not here, I don't know who
1:52:08you're going to be talking to that you
1:52:09can trust to to share this information
1:52:12because he's had such great open um
1:52:15conversation with your family and he is
1:52:18he's the guy that can really deliver a
1:52:20solid message to your family. And right
1:52:23now, we just don't have that complete
1:52:25message. And I'm just afraid that we're
1:52:27going to lose an opportunity to tell
1:52:29them. I would tell my family whatever I
1:52:32want to tell them.
1:52:33>> That's part of it. Sure.
1:52:36>> That's fair enough.
1:52:37>> Understanding what happened is a big
1:52:38part of it. Anything else that you want
1:52:40to make sure that they hear?
1:52:43I think that's really, really important.
1:52:46I don't know. And as you're as we're
1:52:48reviewing everything, you said there's a
1:52:50dream. You know, the more we wake up
1:52:52after having a dream or a nightmare, we
1:52:55start remembering certain parts of it
1:52:58more and more and more. And when we
1:53:01mentioned that you transitioned from a
1:53:03gun to a knife, there's got to be an
1:53:06image in your mind about what happened.
1:53:09>> I just see her laying there. I don't I
1:53:11don't remember using a knife. I told
1:53:14>> Do you remember kneeling on the kitchen
1:53:16floor, being on your knees, or laying on
1:53:19the floor? Do you remember any of that?
1:53:24>> No.
1:53:24>> No.
1:53:25>> No.
1:53:26>> Do you remember seeing blood anywhere?
1:53:31>> On her, I think.
1:53:32>> On her. Where on her?
1:53:35Wow.
1:53:39On her shoulder. on her shoulder, front
1:53:42or back, side
1:53:46>> back.
1:53:48>> Do you remember her falling down or
1:53:50being pushed down or tackled?
1:53:52>> She fell down.
1:53:54>> She fell. When did she fall?
1:53:57>> That's what I don't understand.
1:54:00She fell down. I think
1:54:05>> when
1:54:07I don't know.
1:54:10when she fell down.
1:54:12>> Was it before you shot her or after? Did
1:54:15when you guys got when she pushed you?
1:54:17Did you
1:54:17>> It was after all that happened.
1:54:20>> After all, what happened?
1:54:23>> Uh when the gun
1:54:27after you shot her, she fell down.
1:54:30>> Yeah.
1:54:30>> I don't want to put words in your mouth.
1:54:31Is that what you're saying?
1:54:32>> Yes.
1:54:33>> Okay.
1:54:39You don't remember grabbing that knife?
1:54:41>> No.
1:54:42>> No. Okay. All right. Before Before we
1:54:47leave, is there anything that you want
1:54:48me to know?
1:54:51>> Uh, like what?
1:54:52>> Well, just anything that I may have
1:54:54missed. You know, you the reality of it,
1:54:57Jeff, is you're the only one that can
1:55:00tell us exactly what happened. You know,
1:55:02so I wasn't there. you know, I we piece
1:55:05it together as best we can, but um you
1:55:08know, Melinda and you are the only ones
1:55:09that know. So,
1:55:12I'm not perfect. If I miss something
1:55:14that you're thinking something, he
1:55:16didn't ask me or he you know, I mean,
1:55:18let me know. I mean, I'm I'm open and
1:55:20honest with you, and that's all I'm
1:55:21asking in return.
1:55:29I don't understand how the dogs got out.
1:55:31The dog got out. I think the door was
1:55:34locked. All the doors were locked.
1:55:40>> You remember opening any of those doors?
1:55:42>> No.
1:55:43>> The slider was partially open.
1:55:46>> I left everything locked up before cuz
1:55:48with me sitting there, if I'm going to
1:55:50go to sleep, I'm going to lock it all
1:55:52up.
1:55:52>> Mhm. Mhm.
1:55:54>> I don't know why the dog got out.
1:55:56>> Jeff, do you remember walking over to
1:55:57your neighbor's shed after this
1:55:59happened? to my neighbor's shed.
1:56:02>> Mhm.
1:56:02>> If you're in the back the backyard
1:56:05backyard.
1:56:06>> You remember going to your neighbor's
1:56:08shed?
1:56:09>> My neighbor's shed.
1:56:10>> So if I'm in your backyard, the house to
1:56:12the right of you, Ronnie lives next door
1:56:15and mother.
1:56:17>> I have gone to the shed.
1:56:19>> You don't remember walking over there?
1:56:21>> No.
1:56:23>> Would it surprise you if I told you that
1:56:25you did?
1:56:28>> I never walked outside. It was raided.
1:56:34>> What did I do there?
1:56:36>> It look like you tried to get in the
1:56:37shed.
1:56:39>> I didn't get in the shed.
1:56:40>> Yeah, it was locked.
1:56:42>> I didn't even try to go over there.
1:56:45>> Okay.
1:56:46>> Are you positive about that?
1:56:48>> Yeah, I'm positive.
1:56:50>> Okay.
1:56:51>> Does it show that on the security team?
1:56:53>> Yeah, it does. Um, you know, again, to
1:56:56be to be open and honest with you, um,
1:56:59it it looks like you, you know, it
1:57:01doesn't look like Ronnie, but, you know,
1:57:03I I can't say that 100%. Um, it's a very
1:57:06good video, but um, you guys are of
1:57:08similar size, so um, but it does look
1:57:12like you that you went over there.
1:57:14>> You don't remember doing that?
1:57:16>> I don't I never been to the shed before.
1:57:18I didn't mean to go to the shed.
1:57:19>> Okay, that's fair enough. It could have
1:57:21been Ronnie. And uh
1:57:23>> you know, we've looked at it already.
1:57:25>> We thought it was you. It looks like
1:57:26you, but again, do you know what Ronnie
1:57:28looks like?
1:57:30>> Yeah. He's got he's got that fuzzy hair.
1:57:33>> Yeah. You guys not not that you guys are
1:57:35identical twins, but you know, it's not
1:57:38like uh some super short, super tall
1:57:41guy, you know, walked over there. You
1:57:43guys are a little similar build. So,
1:57:45okay. Not say not saying that you did.
1:57:48It looked like you did. Okay. Yeah,
1:57:50>> I believe you.
1:57:52>> I never been to that [ __ ] before. I've
1:57:54watched them put up a door on it, but
1:57:56that's it.
1:57:56>> Yeah. Yeah, I think they did that
1:57:57recently. I think so. Last within the
1:58:00last month,
1:58:00>> something like that.
1:58:02>> Okay. All right. Well, listen. I'm going
1:58:04to I'm going to get you out of here. Um,
1:58:07is there anything you want to tell me?
1:58:09>> I think I
1:58:13>> Okay.
1:58:14>> Okay. I'll walk you back uh there and um
1:58:18you'll have opportunity to use uh call
1:58:20your parents and whatnot. Okay.
1:58:23>> I don't have the number.
1:58:25>> I gave them a number yesterday. They do
1:58:27not have a number back there for your
1:58:29mom and dad. I got a different
1:58:31>> He is a different
1:58:32>> He has a He has a 280 8040 or something.
1:58:35I remember a lot of zeros and um but you
1:58:38should have both numbers. I gave it to
1:58:40him yesterday. If they don't have it for
1:58:42some reason, tell them to call me and
1:58:43I'll get that to you. All right. Cuz I
1:58:45have it.
1:58:46>> I don't think there's anything else.
1:58:48>> Okay. You're going to be going you're
1:58:51going to be transferred to county today.
1:58:54Uh I don't know how soon or how late,
1:58:56but if there's something that I miss,
1:58:57something you think of you want me to
1:58:59know, you know, this is your
1:59:00opportunity, okay? Cuz you and I are
1:59:02more than likely not going to talk
1:59:04again.
1:59:05>> Um you know, I I appreciate you sitting
1:59:07down with me today. Um
1:59:10>> there's nothing I have to hide. I don't
1:59:13think there's anything.
1:59:14>> Okay.
1:59:15>> I think that's all of it.
1:59:17>> Okay. Well,
1:59:18>> you know, we we've come a long way. I
1:59:20mean, we've gotten some answers, not all
1:59:22of them, but um I'm not at square one
1:59:26anymore. So, again, is there something
1:59:29that you think of that you want to tell
1:59:31me or I missed and then let me know
1:59:33before you go down to uh your transport
1:59:35downtown? Okay.
1:59:37>> Uh I don't know where that paper is.
1:59:41That's paternity,
1:59:44>> but Anna has information on that.
1:59:46>> Yeah, I'll talk to her about that.
1:59:48>> Did anybody else know about the
1:59:49paternity test except for you and and
1:59:52Anna?
1:59:52>> Just me and Anna.
1:59:53>> Okay.
1:59:55>> It was just us who knew about it.
1:59:58>> I wanted to ask you too, the the
2:00:01revolver used in uh
2:00:05in this case, whose is it?
2:00:09>> Uh my dad's. your dad's. When did you
2:00:12get it from your dad?
2:00:13>> I had it for a while.
2:00:15>> What's a while?
2:00:17>> I don't know. Like maybe a couple
2:00:19months.
2:00:20>> You had it for a couple months.
2:00:21>> And why did you take it from your dad?
2:00:24>> Just because you always bring guns into
2:00:26the house with my little sister and I
2:00:27didn't want him to do that so I just
2:00:29kind of threw him in the car.
2:00:31>> But Jeff, he has a lot of guns. You
2:00:34That's only one of of many. Many. He
2:00:37Your dad doesn't He couldn't even tell
2:00:38me all the guns he has. He has so many.
2:00:41>> So what is one small gun?
2:00:45>> One swirl gun that I don't know
2:00:47>> how that
2:00:48>> reminded me that he shot himself a while
2:00:50back. It reminded me of that gun. It
2:00:52looked like that gun
2:00:54>> and that bothered you.
2:00:56>> Yeah.
2:00:57>> And your father shot himself?
2:00:59>> Yeah, that's what happened when I was in
2:01:02my freshman year or something.
2:01:03>> Why did he shoot himself?
2:01:05I don't know the exact specifics, but we
2:01:09we were sleeping and he got
2:01:12shot himself in the mouth and we called
2:01:14the cops and everything.
2:01:17That's not a I'm not making levity of
2:01:20it, but that's not that's an unusual
2:01:21place to get shot to shoot yourself.
2:01:24Sometimes, you know, you shoot yourself
2:01:25in the leg or sometimes you're cleaning
2:01:26it, but to get shot in the mouth is
2:01:29>> I don't know.
2:01:30>> Okay. So, you
2:01:32>> I was like 13 or something at the time.
2:01:34Yeah. Yeah.
2:01:35>> Was younger.
2:01:37>> But of all the guns in his house and
2:01:40with your little sister being there, I
2:01:42don't see how one gun is going to make a
2:01:44difference.
2:01:51>> I don't know.
2:01:52>> And what about the knife? Where did that
2:01:54come from? Whose is that? That your
2:01:55father's as well?
2:01:58>> Uh, I think so. Yeah.
2:02:00>> And why did you take that?
2:02:02>> I've had that for a long long time. Like
2:02:04ever since I moved out, it was just
2:02:06something I had in my car and
2:02:08everything. Thought it was cool. So
2:02:10wasn't
2:02:11>> Okay. It's in your car, but why did it
2:02:13How did it end up in your house?
2:02:14>> When I cleaned out the car for my mom a
2:02:16while back, I just took everything and
2:02:18put it downstairs.
2:02:26None of that stuff had like bullets or
2:02:28anything. None of it
2:02:30>> even been used.
2:02:31>> Well, the gun obviously had bullets in
2:02:33it. Did you have to put bullets in it
2:02:34that day?
2:02:35>> No, I never put bullets in it.
2:02:37>> Well, how did the bullets end up in the
2:02:38gun?
2:02:39>> I don't know.
2:02:42>> I doesn't There's nobody in that house
2:02:44that seems comfortable with guns that
2:02:46would bother to put bullets in it.
2:02:48>> I didn't put bullets in it. I didn't
2:02:50think I there were bullets downstairs or
2:02:52there were bullets in the car. I don't
2:02:53think there was any bullets for that or
2:02:55anything.
2:03:00I don't think there were bullets.
2:03:03I didn't think it was even.
2:03:09>> Well, you're proficient with with
2:03:12firearms,
2:03:14so
2:03:17I'm sure you knew it was loaded
2:03:22or you put them in there that day.
2:03:24Which one is it?
2:03:26>> I put them in there that day. I didn't I
2:03:29didn't think it was loaded. I just
2:03:31>> Well,
2:03:31>> I just thought it was a gun from
2:03:33downstairs.
2:03:34>> Mhm.
2:03:35>> But Jeff, if you're telling me that you
2:03:37took a gun out of your father's house,
2:03:40one of many,
2:03:42and you wouldn't have done that if it
2:03:44wasn't loaded from his his house, there
2:03:46would be no how would that endanger your
2:03:50sister?
2:03:50>> I just didn't like it. That's all. It
2:03:53wasn't just because of her. I just
2:03:55didn't like it being there. I didn't
2:03:56like it.
2:04:01>> Was that the gun that your father shot
2:04:03himself with?
2:04:04>> No, I don't think so. I don't know which
2:04:06one he shot himself with. I was young at
2:04:09the time. I didn't No one told me
2:04:11anything really.
2:04:12>> Mhm.
2:04:14>> I just know he shot himself and it
2:04:17>> was a big thing.
2:04:18>> Mhm.
2:04:19>> My family.
2:04:23That was when we were all really big
2:04:25into guns. And after that, no one
2:04:27really, you know, go shooting every
2:04:29other day.
2:04:31>> Mhm.
2:04:33>> Always help dad with stuff. Guns, you
2:04:36know.
2:04:36>> When's the last time you went shooting
2:04:37at a range? I know your dad says he goes
2:04:39a lot.
2:04:40>> A long time ago.
2:04:41>> Yeah.
2:04:43>> Six maybe eight months. Very long. When
2:04:48>> my brother and my dad, we went to We
2:04:51used to work at BNC shooting. the range
2:04:53over there
2:04:56>> was spec.
2:05:14All right.
2:05:16All right, Jeff. Well, I appreciate your
2:05:17time. Um, I'm going to walk you back.
2:05:19Okay. You can take your water with you.
2:05:30I stand up.
2:05:31>> Yeah. Yeah, please. Yeah, we have the
2:05:32water.
2:05:39>> Yeah.
2:05:40>> Justice eventually caught up to Jeffrey
2:05:41Skullin. Faced with overwhelming
2:05:44evidence, he entered a no contest plea
2:05:46and was sentenced to life in prison with
2:05:48the possibility of parole after 33
2:05:50years. For the Pleskovich family, the
2:05:53punishment could never undo the
2:05:55devastation. A beloved wife, mother,
2:05:58grandmother, and teacher was taken from
2:06:00them in a brutal act of betrayal
2:06:02committed by someone she had trusted
2:06:04inside her own home. Melinda
2:06:06Pleskovich's legacy lives on through the
2:06:08student she taught, the family who loved
2:06:11her, and the community that continues to
2:06:13honor her memory. But the tragedy of her
2:06:16loss remains a haunting reminder that
2:06:18danger can come not from the shadows
2:06:20outside, but from those welcomed within.
2:06:22If you found this video informative,
2:06:24please consider leaving a like and
2:06:26subscribing to the channel, as it really
2:06:28helps support our work and allows us to
2:06:30continue covering important stories like
2:06:32this one. Thank you.

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