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Extraction 1 1 Interview RM 154 01 16 2026 66766 wmv Detective Adolf Interview with Elouise Leland — Transcript

by Fanny Carolina Margon Contreras · 20,288 words · 3,303 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:05What are they doing?
3:00I'm happy have a seat in one of those
3:01chairs right over there.
3:04>> Do you need a water or anything?
3:06>> Some water would be great.
3:07>> Some water. Okay. Let me see if I can
3:08get you some water.
3:09>> Oh, thank you very much.
3:11>> Sure thing.
3:16Uh we'll be I'll be right back with you.
3:18I'll get you some water and then
3:18somebody will be home with you in just a
3:20second. Okay.
5:46Okay, here you go.
5:47>> Thank you very much.
5:49>> It's cold.
5:50>> I know. It was a nice cold one in the
5:52fridge. Can you open it, please? Thank
5:54you.
5:58>> Thank you very much.
10:30Okay,
10:33>> all right. So, I think I introduced
10:34myself to you when you're out there, but
10:36if you didn't catch my name, I'm
10:37Detective. This is my partner, Detective
10:39Sim. Okay,
10:41>> tell me the names again. I'm Detective
10:42Adolf.
10:43>> Adolf. I'm Dan.
10:45>> Dan. Adolf. Dan.
10:47>> You can call me Charlie. Adolf might be
10:49more memorable, but you can call me
10:50Charlie. That'll be fine.
10:52>> Okay. Charlie and Dan.
11:02>> Well, that's a nice tie you have.
11:04>> Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. I like
11:05this tie.
11:06>> Yeah, that's
11:07>> I'll pull these these hand cuts off of
11:08you. Make you a little more comfortable
11:10if that's all right.
11:12Is that's a special tie or
11:14>> it's just one of one of the ties I
11:16choose to wear sometimes.
11:18>> And you're allow you're part of the
11:20force here though, right?
11:21>> Yes, ma'am.
11:22>> Well, that's neat.
11:23>> Sorry about that.
11:24>> Okay.
11:26>> Excellent.
11:30>> All right.
11:31Um, so I'll tell you what, while we're
11:34waiting on
11:36uh Dan to get back,
11:39go over a couple things with you.
11:41>> Sure. Sure, please do.
11:43>> Let's try and and sort this out. Okay. I
11:45want to make sure that I have all the
11:46spelling your your name down, right? So,
11:48spell your first name for me.
11:49>> E L O U I S E.
11:54>> And you said that you've never had a
11:55middle name.
11:57>> Well, I have. I've
11:58>> You just don't use it. What is it?
12:00If you have a middle name, you don't use
12:02it, but what what is your middle name?
12:03>> Let me think about it now. Okay. Eloise
12:05Leland. And then uh from Eloise Gosh,
12:09God, what did my mother do? She named me
12:11something. Um Eloise Ruth Leland. That's
12:14it.
12:15>> All right.
12:15>> That's been a lot of years ago.
12:18>> And Miss Leland, tell me again what your
12:20date of birth was.
12:21>> 3:15 1944.
12:25Okay. Um,
12:28busy night.
12:31And uh, tell me again what your phone
12:32number was. I know I wrote it down
12:33earlier, but I don't have that with me.
12:36352586309.
12:41>> All right. And that address that we came
12:43out and met you at, what was that
12:44address?
12:46>> It's my friend uh, my friend John's
12:49address. Um,
12:54352
13:00I I I have it my I can tell you my phone
13:05>> it's I think it's like 352
13:09>> uh give up I don't remember
13:12>> that's okay.
13:13>> Um so these are just demographic
13:15questions just to make sure that I have
13:16your information down current and
13:18correct. Okay. I don't like to make
13:19mistakes. I just want to cross check my
13:21work. Make sure I have everything down
13:22right.
13:22>> You made a big mistake. You got me here.
13:24That's a mistake.
13:25>> Let's figure this out. Okay. Um, I'll
13:28tell you what. Uh, you you're not in
13:30handcuffs right now. Uh, but you are in
13:33a police facility with multiple
13:35detectives here. Uh, and at this point
13:37in time, you're not free to leave. Um,
13:38so I'm going to read you your Miranda
13:40rights. Okay. I want you to understand
13:42that that you don't have to talk to me.
13:44Um, I want I want to respect your
13:46rights, but I'd imagine you'd like to
13:47know what's going on.
13:48>> I know what's going on. I sure would.
13:50This is bizarre.
13:51>> So, I'm going to read these to you off
13:52of my card here. Okay.
13:54>> Okay.
13:54>> Uh, the rule book says I have to read it
13:56off the card.
13:57>> So, you have the right to remain silent.
13:59Do you understand that?
14:00>> Yes.
14:00>> Okay. Anything you say can and will be
14:03used against you in the court of law. Do
14:04you understand that?
14:05>> Yes.
14:06>> You have the right to talk to a lawyer
14:08and have him present with you while
14:09you're being questioned. Do you
14:10understand that?
14:12>> You can decide. I'm sorry. If you cannot
14:14afford to hire a lawyer, one will be
14:15appointed to represent you.
14:16>> I don't need a lawyer.
14:18>> Question if you wish. I just have to
14:19finish reading these to you. Okay. Um,
14:21so just acknowledge yes or no as I read
14:23them to you. If you cannot afford to
14:24hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to
14:26represent you before any questioning if
14:28you wish. Do you understand?
14:29>> Certainly. Yes.
14:30>> Okay. You can decide at any time to
14:31exercise these rights, not answer any
14:33questions or making statements. Do you
14:34understand that?
14:35>> Yes.
14:35>> You understand all these rights as I've
14:37read them to you? Okay. Excellent. Just
14:39want to make sure that we're on the same
14:40page. Okay. Me and Dan are both pretty
14:42easygoing people.
14:43>> Yeah. You seem to be very you seem to be
14:45very nice. I don't know why you're
14:46picking on me.
14:47>> Well, I I don't want to pick on you. Um,
14:49but uh you know there's there's some
14:51information that has uh that has brought
14:53us together today and that's what we
14:54would like to talk about.
14:55>> Yeah, I would like to know what that is.
14:56>> So here's here's Dan again.
15:03All right. Um,
15:11Louise, it's kind of hard to see.
15:15>> What
15:16>> do you know that gentleman right there?
15:18I thought I don't know who he is.
15:19>> You don't know who he is?
15:25>> Okay. Who is he?
15:28What's going on with him?
15:30>> How do you know him?
15:32>> I I'm just No, I'm just saying. Are his
15:33hands behind his back?
15:35>> Yes. He's being put in the back of a
15:37patrol car.
15:37>> For what?
15:38>> How do you know him?
15:40>> I I mean, I don't know him at all. Now,
15:44he could be that some that a friend of
15:46mine
15:48said he needs to get a car. And I said,
15:50"Well, my brother's car um had the car
15:54sitting there for three years now." That
15:57you know,
15:59>> maybe you can make a deal with him, but
16:00that was I mean, it looks like him.
16:02That's what I'm saying.
16:03>> This was this afternoon, but I don't
16:05know if that's the same person or not.
16:08And why in the world is
16:11he?
16:12>> Basically, I there's one thing that I
16:15always like to lay out for anybody that
16:17I talk to in this room, whether they're
16:18a victim, a suspect, or a witness, or
16:20anything in between, okay? Um we both
16:22care a lot about our jobs. That's why
16:24we're being nice with you. All right?
16:26But but here's here's the thing, okay?
16:28Um our time is important just the same
16:30as your time is important. And there's
16:32one
16:33>> my bed past my bedtime. There's one
16:35opportunity here to be honest about
16:37what's going on. Okay? Understand that
16:40we're not just run-of-the-mill
16:42police officers, okay? We are
16:43detectives. Um, you would not be here if
16:47there was not certain information that
16:48we felt was compelling enough to bring
16:50you into this room.
16:51>> Why is he a
16:51>> Let me just let me finish real quick.
16:53Okay. Um,
16:55>> I know that you've got some knowledge of
16:57who that man is and this is your
17:00opportunity. He's I guess he he
17:02>> Mr.
17:02>> Friend of mine has known him for a lot
17:04of years.
17:04>> Just let me finish for a moment. Okay.
17:06>> If I is the same person.
17:07>> This is the opportunity for you to be
17:10forthcoming and truthful with what you
17:13know. Um and if if I get the impression
17:16that you're not being honest with us,
17:17I'm just going to end the interview.
17:19Okay? So, I would just ask that for the
17:21sake of not wasting your time or mine,
17:23please just be honest with me. And I'm
17:24going to give you that same courtesy.
17:26>> Okay? That is the person that I talked
17:28to this morning.
17:29>> Okay? I don't know why he's in
17:31handcuffs.
17:31>> Do you know what his name is?
17:33>> I don't I don't remember. It's a friend
17:35of a friend.
17:36>> Okay. Who's Who's the mutual friend?
17:38>> Mutual friend is His name is Michael.
17:41>> Okay. Do you know Michael's last name?
17:43>> Oh my goodness.
17:48I don't remember. I've known him for
17:50years and years.
17:51>> Okay.
17:52>> But I don't
17:52>> How do you know him?
17:54>> He used to work for me years ago.
17:56>> Okay. Yeah. I know you mentioned earlier
17:57that you did the wolf dog uh farm. Is
18:00that how y'all got acquainted?
18:02>> Right. Got he
18:03>> Okay. So, you've known him for a while.
18:04>> For a long for a long time. Yes.
18:06>> Okay. Um how often do you
18:09>> Not recent. I mean, not I knew him a
18:11long time ago,
18:12>> right?
18:12>> But not not that much lately except I
18:15did loan him some money because he's
18:17>> he's been through, you know, he's been
18:19through a lot of difficulties and all. I
18:22did loan him some money a couple times.
18:25>> Okay. lab.
18:27>> What kind of money are we talking about?
18:28How like dollar amounts?
18:31>> Just dollars, not anything super
18:33significant.
18:34>> Okay. Um, if you had to guess, I mean,
18:36are we talking 0 to $50, $50 to $100? Do
18:39you have any idea how much?
18:40>> Well, I gave him some money at different
18:41times, maybe $40, $50 maybe.
18:45>> Okay.
18:46>> I mean, different I mean,
18:48>> you know, he was a he was he was be he
18:51was a real I can't talk. It's so cold.
18:54Anyway,
18:56you know, I know it because he worked
18:57for me years ago.
18:58>> Mhm.
18:58>> So, I knew his whole life story. He'd
19:00been in spent most of his life in jail.
19:02Sounded sounded like in the past, not
19:05since he's been down here and
19:07>> and all this,
19:09>> right? Okay. Um, here recently, how
19:12often have uh have y'all communicated?
19:15you. I mean, do you all talk on a
19:16regular basis or No,
19:19>> not on a well done on a regular basis,
19:21but he's he's you know that these guys
19:24he's he stays at his he stays at his
19:27sisters and just
19:31they have a lot of money and they don't
19:32want to help them, but they do,
19:34>> right?
19:35>> Okay. So, you mentioned that this
19:38gentleman that that Dan showed you here
19:40in the picture.
19:40>> Well, yeah, I saw
19:41>> you were introduced to him. Is that how
19:42I understand that?
19:43>> Yeah. Okay. Uh, and what was the the
19:46reasoning uh for uh for y'all's
19:48introduction? because my because Michael
19:51said that he's Michael's been telling me
19:54that this
19:55>> this is the first time I've seen this
19:56friend,
19:57>> but he's telling me he's been he works
20:00for a he's a long haul driver or
20:03something and he's got a house here and
20:04he's out of town and his his wife anyway
20:09problems with his wife and they're
20:11selling he's selling the house now and
20:13anyway I just
20:16just said he asked me to help get I just
20:18he just borrowed some money from me to
20:19give to his friend. He said
20:21>> who borrowed the money from you? The M
20:24you're your friend Michael?
20:25>> Yeah. I mean
20:26>> borrowed money from you to give to his
20:28friend.
20:28>> Yeah.
20:29>> Okay. And his friend is the one that
20:30you're saying you met this morning.
20:31That's the federal picture.
20:32>> I guess I mean I guess that is
20:34>> okay.
20:34>> But you can look at the picture again if
20:37you want to see.
20:39So,
20:42our deputies stopped him earlier
20:47and he had a story to tell us.
20:49>> They stopped him.
20:50>> Yes.
20:51>> Where was he?
20:52>> Earlier this afternoon. I'm not sure.
20:55>> Why is he?
20:56>> Well,
20:58that's a different story as to why he's
21:01in handcuffs.
21:02>> Yeah. Cuz
21:03>> Okay. But
21:06while he was in those, he explained a
21:09story to us about his meeting with you
21:12today.
21:17Do you want to tell us about that?
21:20Like I said, he's my friend uh Michael
21:24has just talked about him saying all the
21:26things
21:27>> all the pro problems he's been going
21:29through. Michael went to pick him up at
21:32the airport and a deer hit his car and
21:35>> wrecked his car. I mean, it was just
21:37>> What kind of What kind of car was he
21:38driving today?
21:40>> I don't know cars.
21:41>> You don't know cars? You know what color
21:42it was?
21:45>> I think it was a I don't I'm sorry. I
21:48don't know.
21:48>> He said he I don't even know whose car
21:52it was.
21:52>> Okay.
21:53>> Because he said that uh
21:55>> he he told us all about the meeting he
21:57had with you today. Okay. He said, and I
22:01I told him, "My brother has this car
22:03that's been sitting there for three
22:04years." He said he had to
22:06>> he's going to need a car. And I said,
22:08"Well, it's sat there for three years."
22:10>> Mhm.
22:11>> Just so I don't know.
22:12>> There was there was some more that went
22:14on in that meeting.
22:17>> You told me that.
22:19>> Well, I wasn't in the meeting.
22:28>> Okay. How did this gentleman here that's
22:31pictured, you said you were going to he
22:33was going to get the the vehicle from
22:34you that had been parked? Is that right?
22:36>> Well, he said
22:38my friend Michael told him that I had
22:43my brother's car has sat there for 3
22:46years.
22:46>> Mhm.
22:47>> And he hasn't driven it in three years.
22:49He I guess
22:52he bought the car cuz he was he was
22:55getting divorced from his wife who was
22:58out of California. He bought the car to
23:01drove it out to California, picked up
23:04picked up his stuff and brought it back
23:05and it has sat there ever since then.
23:08>> So, we can just be we'll keep it simple.
23:11Um you have a car.
23:14>> Well, I don't have a car.
23:15>> Yeah, but the car that's parked there,
23:17right? Yeah. And Michael's telling you
23:19that his friend needs a car. Is that
23:20right?
23:20>> Right. Yeah.
23:21>> So, he brought his friend over
23:22>> and that was the purpose of him coming
23:24over today.
23:24>> Well, that's what as far as
23:26>> Is that what you're saying?
23:26>> Yes.
23:27>> Okay. And so, was he interested in the
23:29van? Is it something that he wanted?
23:31>> He said he was, but uh he didn't. I
23:32mean, the car sat there for 3 years.
23:35>> Sure. Did he have any money to pay you
23:36today for? Did he give you a deposit or
23:38anything?
23:38>> No.
23:39>> Okay. Um
23:40>> he did. He's Well, he was driving a car,
23:42so I don't know whose car he was
23:44driving, but um it wasn't my friend
23:46Michael's car anyway. I know that.
23:48>> Did uh did he offer to do anything in
23:51exchange for that vehicle
23:55>> service-wise?
23:57Now, what would I need done?
24:00>> Miss Le, remember what I said about
24:01being honest? That's all that I'm asking
24:03of you. I want you to be honest with me.
24:07>> Well, I don't know anything about why
24:09he's in handcuffs. I don't know anything
24:10about this except
24:12>> Did you Did y'all ever go anywhere today
24:14when he came to look at the van? Did
24:15y'all Did y'all go anywhere? Did you
24:17stay there at the house?
24:18>> No, he never stayed at Did he drive down
24:20in the street, but that was it?
24:22>> Drove down to the end of the street, you
24:23said. For what?
24:26>> I don't know. He wanted to
24:28He wanted to talk away from Michael. I
24:31don't know why.
24:32>> Okay.
24:34Is this the outfit you've been wearing
24:36all day?
24:37>> Yeah.
24:38>> Okay.
24:39Um, I want to show you a picture here.
24:41Just make sure that I have the right
24:42person. Uh, would you agree that that's
24:44you?
24:45>> Yeah. That's not a very good picture, is
24:47it?
24:48>> Well, that's that's one of many.
24:54>> So, we we've asked you to be honest with
24:57us, so we're going to be honest with
24:59you.
24:59>> Okay.
25:00>> Okay.
25:02>> This gentleman that I just showed you a
25:03picture of,
25:04>> Uhhuh. He's an undercover police
25:05officer.
25:07>> And he said,
25:08>> "So you sat in that car?"
25:10>> My friend, my friend said he's known him
25:12for years cuz they were in jail
25:13together.
25:14>> That gentleman's an undercover police
25:16officer.
25:16>> So how'd you get up? How'd he get up
25:18with uh
25:20>> I called him I called that police
25:22officer to come up here and come sit
25:24with you and see what you had to tell
25:27him.
25:29>> Okay.
25:30>> I don't I don't understand all this. The
25:32picture you just saw
25:33>> Yeah.
25:34>> was from the video surveillance system
25:37that that officer was wearing.
25:38>> Yeah.
25:39>> Well, why was he doing that with with
25:42with uh Michael?
25:43>> He wasn't doing that with Michael.
25:45Michael doesn't know anything.
25:48>> And how did Michael Michael's been
25:50talking about him for about four or five
25:52months?
25:52>> Yeah. Michael Michael does Michael
25:55doesn't know that guy from that bottle
25:56of water right there.
25:59>> So, how'd this all come about? So, we
26:02have some information that you were
26:03looking
26:05You have some problems with your
26:06brother. Yeah.
26:08>> What problems do I have with my brother?
26:10>> That's what I'm trying to find out.
26:12>> Well, I don't have
26:12>> If I go play the 47 minute long video
26:15from earlier today, it's going to
26:16outline all the problems you have with
26:17your brother.
26:18>> I don't have any problems with my
26:19brother.
26:20>> Okay. I'm going to show you one more
26:21picture.
26:25>> Did you remember drawing that map today?
26:30doesn't look like a map to me,
26:38but I I really don't understand why I'm
26:44Do you remember drawing this today or
26:47Louise?
26:48>> Eloise.
26:58I asked you to be honest.
26:59>> Okay. I mean, I'm trying to
27:00>> and now now I'm being honest with you
27:03and we're putting our stuff on the
27:04table.
27:05>> Okay. Well, I I just don't understand
27:07what what all this is going on. I really
27:10don't.
27:10>> I will put it into a simple perspective
27:12for you. Okay.
27:14>> The gig is up.
27:16>> Okay. There is a very extensive
27:18video and audio recording of today's
27:21events and some things that led up to
27:23today.
27:23>> What led up to today?
27:25>> We have you on video drawing that.
27:27>> Okay. Well, what I don't understand what
27:29>> and so hold on a second. Okay. Uh
27:33everything that we're asking you about
27:35we know to be factual at this point.
27:37What I don't understand is is why. And
27:40so there's no changing the evidence
27:43that's in this folder or that's in these
27:46pictures or that's in the videos on this
27:47hard drive here. That's that's done.
27:50Hold on now.
27:50>> Okay.
27:51>> Okay. This is your opportunity to
27:53explain to me what is so bad with your
27:55brother.
27:55>> Nothing's bad with my brother.
27:57>> So I mean you don't strike me as a a
27:59merciless, hostile killer that just
28:02wants to kill somebody that didn't ever
28:03do anything wrong.
28:04>> My brother's never done anything wrong
28:06to me. He's he doesn't have a single
28:08friend in this world. His twin sister
28:10hasn't spoken to him in I don't know how
28:13many years. But no, he's never done
28:16anything to me.
28:18>> Okay. Um what about the topic of
28:21financial gain?
28:22>> What financial gain?
28:23>> The financial gain that you would be
28:25subject to receiving should your brother
28:27pass away.
28:31I don't know that I I have don't have
28:35know if I okay he's got two sisters I
28:39don't I don't know I don't think his
28:41money I don't think he has any money
28:42that he would come to anybody
28:46>> I don't know I don't know what he does
28:48with his money
28:49>> you seemed a lot more confident about
28:51his money when you were talking about it
28:52on the video earlier today and that's I
28:54guess why I'm a little bit perplexed
28:56>> I was confident about his Mhm.
28:59>> And and confident that here in the next
29:02week or so, specifically after Monday
29:04morning at 8:00 a.m., I think you said,
29:06uh, you were confident that you were
29:08going to be receiving a large sum of
29:10money.
29:10>> I did not say that.
29:13>> How would I be receiving a large sum of
29:15money?
29:16>> That's what I'm asking you. The way that
29:18you explained it is the distribution of
29:19assets and the properties that would be
29:21sold. And now you're telling me that
29:23that your brother doesn't have a mean
29:24bone in his body and that you never want
29:26to hurt him at all.
29:27>> So
29:28>> I never said he doesn't have a mean bone
29:29in his body. He doesn't have a mean bone
29:31in his body. Doesn't have a single
29:33friend in this world.
29:34>> That's okay.
29:35>> Well,
29:36>> but again, it doesn't change the fact
29:38that the only side of the story we have
29:40right now is is what you spoke of
29:42earlier and the evidence that's been
29:43collected up to this point. Um, Miss
29:46Leland, I need you to understand that
29:48the next few minutes that we have in
29:49this room together is your your one and
29:51only opportunity to tell your side of
29:53the story and maybe show a little bit of
29:55remorse for making a large mistake.
29:58Okay? Because if I march you out of this
29:59room in handcuffs, it's done. And
30:01whatever narrative gets shown to the
30:03world about who you are and the
30:05decisions you made, that's done.
30:07>> I haven't done anything.
30:09>> Okay, let me see other piece of paper in
30:11there.
30:16You know, Louise, you know what a an
30:19arrest warrant is?
30:20>> Mhm. Well, I
30:23>> This is an arrest warrant for you.
30:27>> This is the crime you're being charged
30:28with.
30:29>> That's a crime because I talked to
30:31somebody cuz you said
30:32>> No, no, no. Do you know you understand
30:34what solicitation is? You know what
30:36solicitation means?
30:38>> Well, I know the word. Yeah.
30:40>> You seem like a very educated woman. You
30:42you've been around the world according
30:44to you.
30:45>> Yeah.
30:45>> Your your husband your ex-husband.
30:47>> Oh my sister.
30:48>> Not ex deceased.
30:50>> Deceased. Yes.
30:51>> Was an airline pilot. Yes.
30:53>> So you used to fly a lot.
30:54>> Yes.
30:56>> So you you understand what solicitation
30:58is?
30:59>> Yes.
30:59>> Solicitation to commit first-degree
31:01murder is what this warrant is charging
31:04you with. This is what you're being
31:06arrested for tonight.
31:10It's all
31:12on that hard drive right there.
31:16>> This doesn't make any sense to me. So,
31:18>> basically that I understand that that
31:20you either are or are portraying that
31:23you're a little bit confused right now,
31:24but right before Dan started reading
31:26this to you here just a moment ago, you
31:28said, "So, it's a crime that I talked
31:30about, and I'd like to know what you
31:31That's what you just said. That's what I
31:33thought you That's what I I heard you
31:34say just now. So, that's what I'm What
31:36did you talk to him about? I mean, can
31:38you understand any reason why this would
31:40come up other than everything that we've
31:42just laid out? Is there some drastic
31:43misunderstanding here that I'm missing?
31:45>> Well, I'm missing the whole don't
31:47understand the whole thing. Why you have
31:50what what is this person's name?
31:52>> That's irrelevant.
31:53>> Well, okay. Why did Why did you have Why
31:56did you arrest him?
31:58>> He's not under arrest.
31:59>> Oh, why isn't
32:01>> He's not under arrest. Oh, he's not he's
32:02No, he's an undercover officer.
32:04>> Okay. Okay.
32:06He's the gentleman you met with today,
32:07>> okay,
32:08>> that recorded this video that we showed
32:10you your picture on
32:14that you discussed this with.
32:19We didn't just randomly come to your
32:20house for no reason tonight. Okay.
32:24This is this is the end of that
32:27investigation.
32:29This is the conclusion of it right here.
32:31>> What do you mean that investigation? Why
32:33was he investigating me?
32:35>> Because you did this. This is signed by
32:38a judge. We have proven to a judge that
32:41we have probable cause
32:43to charge you with this crime.
32:47So, we are at the end of our
32:49investigation.
32:50>> Your name has been on our desk for
32:52weeks.
32:54>> So, we
32:54>> So, you've been on for weeks?
32:57>> For weeks. Yes.
32:59So you've been dealing with this person
33:01for week
33:03>> you can forget all about him. Okay. He
33:05works for us.
33:07>> He's with the police
33:09>> because we were trying. We have to prove
33:11this right here which you did today. We
33:16received credible information. And you
33:18understand that you have a a cell phone
33:19on you, right? You communicate with your
33:20cell phone, right?
33:21>> Okay. Pardon?
33:22>> You communicate with your cell phone
33:23sometimes, right?
33:24>> Okay. You know that nothing is secure on
33:27a cell phone anymore,
33:28>> right? Okay. All it all it takes is is
33:31one little slip and the whole world
33:34knows what you're talking about.
33:35>> Okay. So, you understand why this might
33:37have originally ended up on our radar
33:38and why we might have had some more
33:40questions. Some of the conversations
33:41that you were having seemed a little bit
33:43out of the ordinary.
33:44>> Oh,
33:47I was having
33:49>> If you've made a mistake, we we've all
33:52made mistakes. this is the opportunity
33:54to to explain your mistake, but you're
33:56not helping yourself here.
33:58>> The playing dumb uh angle of this Well,
34:02I I respectfully disagree with you, Miss
34:04Luland, because you seem sharp as attack
34:06earlier today when when this video was
34:08taken of you cuz I listened to the audio
34:10live as this was happening.
34:13You are very smart in your own words.
34:15You have traveled and seen things that
34:17most people are never fortunate enough
34:18to see. You are well educated. You went
34:20to a prestigious school.
34:23Okay.
34:24>> So, it's my job as a detective to find
34:27out who I'm talking to before I talk to
34:29you. Okay. And that's why when I tell
34:31you that all of these things, all these
34:32facts are stacked up here.
34:34>> So, but
34:37Okay. So, um Michael says that he was in
34:41jail with this guy for years. So, you're
34:44saying that's not true?
34:45>> That's correct. That's not true.
34:46>> That's not true.
34:49That is that sounds very cuz pretty much
34:52>> what do you know about Michael's
34:53history?
34:54>> What do I know that he he worked for?
34:57>> No, I mean his legal history. You said
34:58that he had been in the pin at some
35:00point, right? He had been in some
35:02trouble at some point, right?
35:03>> Well, he told me a lot of trouble after
35:04all and then moved.
35:05>> Is that the reason that you hired him to
35:07work at your wolf farm?
35:08>> No, because he was
35:11>> Was it something? Were you trying to
35:12give him an opportunity maybe to
35:14overcome his past? Well, you that way.
35:18>> In the time that he worked for you, did
35:20you did you feel that he was a credible
35:21person?
35:23>> Well, he had a lot of uh a lot of um
35:30he has a lot of me of medical problems,
35:33but yeah.
35:34>> Do you know what the word credible
35:35means?
35:36>> Yeah, but I'm saying he
35:37>> Hold on. Let's just take this a step at
35:39a time. Okay.
35:40>> In your own words, what does credible
35:41mean?
35:42>> Believable. I guess
35:43>> truthful, right? Can you agree with
35:44that? Yeah.
35:45>> Okay. You feel that Michael was a
35:47truthful individual?
35:48>> Well, he was he certainly was truthful
35:50about, you know, coming about being in
35:53jail and up north and
35:55>> Right. And in the time
35:57>> and trying to trying to improve himself,
36:01I mean to
36:02>> right
36:02>> stay out of trouble.
36:04>> And now you had some other employees
36:05over the years as well that kind of had
36:07some similar background, right? And you
36:09were trying to give everybody a a new
36:10lease on life, basically trying to give
36:12them an opportunity to work.
36:15>> I mean, I commend you if that's the
36:16case. I'm just asking.
36:17>> Yeah. I mean, yeah, but not not anybody
36:19else that was in jail, but certainly
36:21people Yeah.
36:22>> people that had their history, their
36:23past. Okay.
36:24>> All right. Did you think that
36:28did you feel like because of Michael's
36:30past, you could you could trust him to
36:32confide in him about your life? And I
36:35don't just mean this incident, but just
36:36in general. Was he somebody that you
36:38trusted to talk to if you needed help
36:39with something? If you wanted to talk
36:41about something that was going on in
36:42life, is he somebody that you could turn
36:44to?
36:44>> I don't think I'd turn to anybody.
36:46>> No. I mean, everybody's got to talk to
36:48somebody. It's human nature. When I have
36:50a bad day, I come and talk to Dan.
36:53>> It's there's nothing wrong with it. And
36:55again, let's take this incident out of
36:56the equation altogether.
36:58>> Going back to your friendship andor your
37:00professional relationship with Michael,
37:02is he somebody that you would trust if
37:04you had to go to him with a secret?
37:08I never
37:10never thought about going to somebody
37:12with a I mean that's
37:16>> Mhm.
37:18>> Well, I mean he you know
37:23but I sounded from what he said back
37:26then that he spent most of his adult
37:28life in jail for different things and
37:30all and he was trying to
37:32>> trying to you know get a fresh start
37:34with Mhm.
37:36>> with his and his I guess his sister and
37:38her husband have a business and they've
37:40done very well and he was trying you
37:43know and she's staying on a trailer on
37:46their property.
37:47>> Mhm.
37:48>> So here's what I'm going to tell you is
37:49what I think.
37:50>> Okay.
37:51>> All right. Uh I think that you took
37:54advantage of of Michael's history and
37:56the fact that he is an ex-convict.
37:58Um, and I think that you thought he
38:02would be somebody that would help you
38:03out with doing the unthinkable.
38:05>> Well, I
38:06>> and I think that's why you went to him.
38:07Do you remember the time go to him?
38:09>> What do you mean?
38:10>> Oh, well, I know for a fact that's not
38:11true. Do you remember the time you went
38:12up to the hospital to visit him after
38:14his surgery here recently?
38:17>> Went up to the hospital to visit him?
38:20>> Yep. After he had surgery. In fact, I
38:22think you actually sent him a text
38:24message about it.
38:25>> I didn't go to the hospital. the rehab
38:27facility that he was at recovering. You
38:31went and visited him, right?
38:32>> I don't think so.
38:33>> Okay. Um,
38:37see, the unfortunate thing is not
38:39everybody on the outside knows the
38:40friendship that you and Michael have.
38:42And and so you made the mistake of
38:46talking about something a little too
38:47loud and got the attention of the wrong
38:49person.
38:51And that's that's what has ultimately
38:53led to the culmination of everything
38:54that's in this file and where we are
38:55today.
38:57Okay. And so what started out as a tip
39:00of something concerning led to you
39:02sitting in a car today with an
39:04undercover cop with cameras and
39:07microphones all over the place
39:10and listening to you put out a hit on
39:13your brother. And so once again before
39:15Dan and I get up and walk out of this
39:17room with you in handcuffs because I'm
39:19tired of being you you acting like you
39:21don't know anything I'm talking about.
39:23Okay. This is your one and only
39:26opportunity remaining to be truthful.
39:28And I'm asking that you please do that.
39:30Help. You're 81 years old, right?
39:33>> Not 81.
39:35>> 81. Almost 82, right?
39:36>> Yeah.
39:37>> Okay.
39:38>> I mean, I I hope for your sake that you
39:41have lots of years left to seek
39:43forgiveness for what has happened and
39:45try and overcome this and be a better
39:46person. Um, but let's be real. Is this
39:50something that you want to go take with
39:51you when you walk out of this room
39:52tonight? Get it off your chest.
39:55>> Get what off my chest?
39:56>> The truth.
39:59That's all I'm asking you for. I'm not
40:01here to pass any judgment on you. I just
40:03want the God's honest truth as to what
40:04happened and what led up to this that
40:06was so bad that you felt the need to
40:08solicit somebody to commit murder.
40:10>> Nothing has happened bad. Nothing.
40:12>> Okay.
40:12>> So, what I'm getting is you are just a
40:13cold-blooded killer that wants your
40:15brother killed because you just simply
40:16have nothing better to do.
40:18>> I don't want my brother killed.
40:20>> That's not what that video said earlier
40:21today.
40:28Be honest, Miss Leand.
40:31>> Well, I don't, like I say, I I just
40:33don't understand.
40:36This seems to be very,
40:40very confusing.
40:41>> I think what's confusing you is you're
40:43wondering where it all went wrong and
40:44how we found out.
40:46>> No, you told me how you found out. So,
40:48>> well, to a degree.
40:51I think that's why you're confused.
40:56>> Confused on how you got caught.
40:59>> Everybody's always sorry when they get
41:01caught.
41:02>> And the worst part of this is that
41:03you're not even sorry because no matter
41:06I mean we're sitting here showing you
41:07physical evidence. I promise you we are
41:09not ones to make something up. This is
41:10not a bluff. Okay? We are sitting here
41:13showing you physical evidence, showing
41:15you pictures of you in a car. I just
41:16took that picture off this hard drive
41:18from a video that's I think it was 47
41:20minutes long of you in that car or
41:23leading up to it afterward. Okay. You
41:25weren't in the car quite that long. But
41:28regardless, we have a map that you drew.
41:32And like I said, Dan just said here,
41:34people aren't sorry until they get
41:35caught. And here you are caught
41:36red-handed, marched in here in
41:38handcuffs, and you're still not sorry.
41:40What do you think that paints of you for
41:42the rest of the world to see?
41:49I haven't.
41:54>> You know, you strike me as somebody that
41:56I could probably sit on the porch and
41:57have a glass of tea with and and hang
41:59out with. You seem like a nice lady. I
42:00enjoyed our conversation when we were at
42:02your house earlier when the deputies
42:04were there with us. And I I think it's
42:06it's really unfortunate that we're going
42:09to have to leave this room tonight with
42:11me thinking differently of you. Instead
42:12of me saying you're a nice lady that
42:13made a mistake, I'm going to leave here
42:16saying, "Wow, you really are just a cold
42:19blooded killer."
42:19>> I'm not cold blooded. I've never hurt
42:22anybody anything. I don't know.
42:26>> Well, that's I would assume that's why
42:27you wanted Michael to facilitate having
42:29the dirty work done for you. So that way
42:31you could go rest with that conscience
42:33that that you didn't kill somebody, you
42:35just had somebody else do it.
42:48I' I've already quoted some of your own
42:51words back to you.
42:54>> So, you know, you know, we're telling
42:56the truth
42:57about your deceased husband being a
43:00pilot and how you used to fly.
43:04>> Betsy used to run triathlons, too.
43:06>> Yeah.
43:08>> That's
43:09Not anything someone could guess.
43:16>> Didn't you mention to Mike in the car
43:19that used to run triathlons?
43:21>> I don't remember.
43:22>> You don't remember that?
43:23>> No.
43:26>> Well, I'm not saying I did or didn't,
43:27but I just don't see how that's
43:28important.
43:30>> What's going on on Monday? What's
43:33supposed to happen on Monday?
43:38I know. On Tuesday, we're supposed to
43:41take the car to Tuesday.
43:45>> We're supposed to take your car on
43:47Tuesday.
43:47>> Yeah.
43:49>> Cuz is it John took the light out of the
43:51car? The the security light, right?
43:54>> Now the car doesn't work anymore.
43:55>> Right. Yeah.
43:57>> Supposed to get towed on Tuesday.
44:01>> You're supposed to go somewhere on
44:02Monday, though.
44:06Wasn't Mike supposed to come over early
44:08in the morning cuz your brother sleeps
44:10in the morning?
44:11>> Mike?
44:12>> Mhm. The guy you met in the car today?
44:14>> Oh, Mike. Oh, okay.
44:15>> Yeah. His name's Mike.
44:18>> The other Mike.
44:19>> The other Okay. Michael. Okay.
44:21>> So,
44:25always what I'm trying to tell you is
44:28we're telling the truth. We know what
44:30happened today. We're trying to give you
44:32an opportunity to be truthful with us,
44:35to be honest, show a little bit of
44:37remorse. I I can't imagine
44:41my sister planning to have me murdered
44:45and meeting with people,
44:48offering them money or or a van.
44:53>> I think I'm more valuable than a van.
44:55>> Yeah, the vans. I mean that I mean when
44:58>> determining what day
45:00>> when he was talking about the van I was
45:01thinking the van has sat there for
45:03>> for three years. I don't know if
45:06>> how much how much did he tell you?
45:37I think you do.
45:47Like
45:50Detective Adolf said, we're going to
45:52leave the room and that's going to be
45:55your last opportunity
45:59to explain your side of all this. If if
46:03you don't do that,
46:05the next time your story is told, it's
46:09going to be to a jury and it's going to
46:12be on that video
46:15with you in the car
46:17drawing this map
46:21to where your brother's bedroom is
46:26so that Mike can go in and kill him and
46:31get the van as payment.
46:34>> That's That doesn't seem to make much
46:36sense.
46:36>> I don't know. Okay.
46:46Does that make any Does that make any
46:47sense that a van that's
46:50my brother paid 500 for three years ago,
46:54drove out to California, drove back that
46:58somebody's
47:00Does that make any sense to you?
47:04>> Did it make any sense to you or
48:01I'll tell you one more thing.
48:32See, what's funny to me is um
48:37about 5 hours and 24 minutes ago to be
48:40exact.
48:44You know, you had talked about It's
48:46okay. You can get the cap in a little
48:47bit. Look at me right now.
48:48>> Okay. I I want you when I when I talk to
48:51you about this. Okay.
48:54A little over 5 hours and 20 minutes
48:55ago. Um when the gentleman there in the
49:00car with you
49:01>> is that
49:01>> talked to you about how
49:03>> all it was was 5 hours ago.
49:04>> Mhm. when he talked to you about how
49:06this was.
49:31Just be honest.
50:03with you on that. I think that's one of
50:04the first things we agree on all night.
50:07But you said it, not me.
50:08>> I did not. I I don't believe
50:16>> wrote it down right there.
50:18>> Almost your exact words. I was trying to
50:20write. I had a lot to write. I that that
50:22does not make any sense. It just doesn't
50:24make any sense.
50:29I did not say that.
50:31>> Well, right. That wasn't your
50:57>> seems so
50:59just so bizarre. It's bizarre that you
51:02got caught. I know that's what you're
51:03feeling.
51:03>> No, I don't think that's
51:06just doesn't make any sense.
51:12>> Is Is there some ulterior motive with
51:15using something like insulin
51:20or was it just because you wanted him
51:21he's a miserable person and you just
51:23want him to be able to go peacefully?
51:29You can be honest with me, Eloise.
51:38Like I say, the whole thing just just
51:40doesn't make
51:43make any sense. I've known Michael for
51:45so many years and this all of a sudden
51:47this just I mean, not that I've known
51:49him for so many years.
51:52Just
51:54>> I understand that you're in shock about
51:55that right now about the fact that you
51:57feel like the the security net, the
52:00safety net that you had just totally
52:02collapsed without warning and now here
52:04you were today 5 and 1 half hours ago
52:06sitting in the car with an undercover
52:07coffin. You probably feel like you've
52:09been a little bit bamboozled,
52:11>> right?
52:14Well, I
52:14>> So once again, I don't
52:16>> it just doesn't make I just think it's
52:18all you all did a awful lot of
52:20>> research
52:21>> and stuff for what?
52:23>> For this so that an innocent person
52:26would not wind up dead.
52:31>> Well, I don't see.
52:32>> And here you are sitting in front of me,
52:33looking me right in my eye, stone cold,
52:35showing zero remorse for what I have you
52:37on video doing, soliciting someone to
52:40commit murder.
52:44Make it make sense.
52:46>> It doesn't make sense.
52:47>> It doesn't make sense. You're exactly
52:49right.
53:28So why why would I think that he has
53:30money? because he doesn't spend money on
53:32anything at all.
53:34>> Well, either
53:37what you told Michael was BS
53:41about the property being sold and you
53:44getting his half of the proceeds.
53:46>> What? I never said that.
53:48>> Well, there's a written agreement
53:49between you and and your brother that
53:51talks about the money that was invested
53:53in the dog farm, the wolf dog farm. um
53:57that that money should the farm ever be
53:59sold that y'all are going to split it.
54:00>> I've never seen What do you mean I've
54:02never heard that?
54:02>> There's there's an agreement between you
54:04and your brother.
54:05>> Where's that agreement? I've never seen
54:07that.
54:11>> And that is why you want him dead. So
54:13that you can have and his written
54:16Where's There's no rhythm.
54:18>> I bet Ireland is real nice, isn't it?
54:20You ever been to
54:21>> Ireland? By myself?
54:23>> No. You got family there?
54:26Well, my daughters
54:29would just
54:31No. No. I've never been to Ireland. No.
54:34>> Well, that's not what I asked the second
54:35time. Do you have family there or
54:36friends?
54:37>> No.
54:38>> No. You sure?
54:40>> No. Ireland? No.
54:41>> Have you ever had any dreams or goals of
54:43moving to Ireland? Get a fresh start,
54:44new lease on life?
54:46>> I'm thinking about going to a lot of
54:48different places, but
54:49>> like where?
54:51>> Like where? like places that are cheaper
54:54than Ireland.
54:56>> Ireland's pretty cheap.
54:57>> Well, it's
55:00it it depends in different areas. I
55:03mean, I've just been doing a lot of
55:04breeding. I don't know anything myself.
55:06>> If you could if I could take this and
55:09tear it up right now, say have your
55:11night, where are you going to go? If you
55:14could leave Citrus County, pick anywhere
55:16else on the map, where would it be?
55:20My concern is what's concerned of a lot
55:23of people is what's happening to this
55:25country,
55:26>> what it's going to be in the future,
55:28>> but that's not
55:30>> right. I that's a valid concern. I I
55:32wake up every day. I think I speak for
55:33Dan, too. Wake up every day and feel
55:34concerned about where our country's
55:35going.
55:36>> Yeah. When you see what's people getting
55:38I mean, but anyway, yeah,
55:40>> it could get really, really bad.
55:41>> What were you going to say? People
55:42getting killed. Is that what is that
55:44what you're going to say?
55:46>> I'm thinking about one person in
55:47particular. that's in the news a lot
55:49now. It's just really heartbreaking.
55:51>> Yeah. Who's that?
55:54>> The the the woman. Her last name's Good.
55:56Uh the woman who was shot.
55:59>> Mhm.
56:00>> Three kids.
56:03>> It is heartbreaking, isn't it? It's
56:04tragedy. Yeah.
56:08Yeah. Says this. If you don't have
56:10anything truthful to tell me, I think
56:12I'm I'm going to go ahead and walk out
56:13of this room and we're just going to do
56:14what we have to do. So, is there
56:16anything else? Well, I just don't see.
56:19>> Okay.
56:19>> I really don't see at all what
56:32is that?
56:33>> Yep. I'll be back with these in just
56:41>> We've We've explained it all to you. I
56:44mean, I can't I can't think of another
56:46way to explain it to you.
56:53How long have you and your your
56:57brother been working together? You've
57:00been in the dog farm business together
57:01or was that just yours?
57:03>> That was mine. That
57:04>> was yours. Did you he worked for you at
57:05the dog farm?
57:07>> What?
57:08>> He worked for you there?
57:09>> No, he didn't work for me there.
57:10>> What did he do for the
57:14What did he do for a living?
57:15>> Yes.
57:16>> Well, he had uh
57:20>> he had worked for for a company for a
57:23number of years.
57:24>> Mhm.
57:26>> But since he's been here, he hasn't done
57:28anything for a living.
57:30>> He retired.
57:34>> I guess he's retired. Yeah.
57:38>> How long have you lived up here? That's
57:41been about 20 years now, I think.
57:44>> If you don't mind me asking, when when
57:45did your ex-husband pass? Your former
57:47husband?
57:47>> Well, that's when I moved up here after
57:49he died.
57:49>> 20. So, 20 years ago. Yeah.
57:50>> I was down in Miami.
57:52>> Yes.
57:54>> What happened down there?
57:56>> What happened?
57:56>> Yeah. How How did your husband pass?
58:03>> Well, he died of a of a heart attack.
58:07>> Oh, the heart attack. Well, I mean
58:09pilots were pilots are very
58:11>> stressful.
58:12>> Very stressful.
58:15>> And then and then it's a big change to
58:18all of a sudden be retired
58:20and you're used to everything being you
58:24know perfect everything life depending
58:26on everything you do and then all of a
58:27sudden you retire. I think that's
58:30>> Yeah. So yeah he How long did he fly as
58:33a pilot?
58:35for a number of number of years he
58:37retired
58:38>> and then he retired and it's usually
58:40what they say you know these the high
58:42stress jobs like cops, firefighters,
58:45airline pilots, you know those high
58:47stress jobs 5 years after you retire is
58:50about your life expectancy.
58:52>> Yeah.
58:52>> Cuz you go from all the high excitement
58:55down to nothing.
58:57>> Yeah. So it's probably
59:00maybe two or three maybe two or three
59:01years.
59:02>> How how old was he if you don't mind?
59:03>> Well, he was still he was young. He was
59:05young. How old?
59:06>> But he was older than any man. But he
59:09said he was older than any man in his
59:10family had lived.
59:12>> Right.
59:12>> So, but he was
59:17how how old was he?
59:19>> Okay. Probably about 60.
59:20>> 60.
59:21>> I'm saying cuz we're about the same age.
59:24>> And I was
59:24>> um
59:27>> Did the medical office down there, the
59:30medical examiner's office find something
59:32unusual in his heart attack?
59:35I don't think so. I don't think so.
59:37>> Okay.
59:38>> I mean, there was I don't think so.
59:40>> So, then you got then you moved up here
59:42after that.
59:44>> Um
59:46John, you've been with John for John
59:48said like 15 years.
59:51>> Well, well, that's
59:54that's friends.
59:56>> Friends. You guys aren't like boyfriend,
59:58girlfriend. You're just friends. They're
1:00:00really good friends.
1:00:01>> Okay.
1:00:01>> Yeah. I mean that's he's a
1:00:08yeah I mean we would
1:00:11we've been we've been friends but he you
1:00:13know he really he needs to be wanted. He
1:00:17needs to have feel like he's
1:00:20>> Mhm.
1:00:21>> So that that's I think so it worked out
1:00:24for both of us. I had somebody who could
1:00:26take care of a lot of things and he
1:00:28needs to be needed.
1:00:30How long has Stan been living with you,
1:00:33your brother?
1:00:34>> Oh, off and on for
1:00:39>> Well, at least 20 years anyway.
1:00:42>> Where was he at
1:00:44before he moved in with you guys? Well,
1:00:46he was married and uh
1:00:49and because I remember talking about the
1:00:52van that John remembers that he bought
1:00:55the van in order to to drive out to
1:00:59California to get his stuff when he got
1:01:02divorced out there and then drove back
1:01:04and then the van has sat there now for
1:01:06three years.
1:01:07>> He hasn't done anything with it. What
1:01:10does he do all day?
1:01:13He stays up most nights and sleeps
1:01:15during the day.
1:01:17>> Does he have some kind of
1:01:19mental ailment or physical ailment or he
1:01:22just
1:01:23>> Well, yes. He he started out um you know
1:01:27in high school as being a you know a
1:01:29star.
1:01:30>> Mhm.
1:01:31>> And then he was um
1:01:32>> I'm talking about now is he
1:01:35>> Well, I'm trying to get to now,
1:01:36>> right? Then he was um he has uh
1:01:43anyway I'm trying to think of the name
1:01:45of the disease he has. I can't think
1:01:47right now but anyway that so he went
1:01:51from being a star to
1:01:54having a health issue.
1:01:56>> Mhm. Okay. And so,
1:02:00and uh he's been married twice and
1:02:02divorced twice. And
1:02:04>> so, now he's kind of just a
1:02:07hanging around wherever
1:02:10you're older, right? You're the older
1:02:12sister. So, he's just kind of
1:02:14>> tugging along with the older sister
1:02:15wherever she goes.
1:02:16>> Yeah. Kind of old. Yeah. When he was
1:02:19back when he was in health, he did a lot
1:02:21of things. We did a lot of things
1:02:22together.
1:02:25>> And I mean, I did
1:02:27I competed in motocross, triathlons and
1:02:30all that.
1:02:32>> But as you know,
1:02:33>> you said that earlier, I
1:02:35>> and he's
1:02:37and he tried to do cuz here I was doing
1:02:40that and here he's
1:02:41>> right.
1:02:42>> But he couldn't
1:02:45he, you know, he never could really
1:02:47succeed. And
1:02:48>> I know his motor he bought a bike
1:02:51motocross bike and I had a motocross
1:02:52bike and then he's then he left it
1:02:55outside and somebody stole it. I mean it
1:02:57was just
1:02:58>> Mhm.
1:02:58>> things like that.
1:03:00>> So what's he doing now? Just just stays
1:03:03at the home. Just stays at the house all
1:03:05day. Not doing anything.
1:03:06>> Well, no. He's he just hangs sleeps all
1:03:11day.
1:03:12>> Who does all the who who makes all the
1:03:13food? Who cooks?
1:03:15>> He cooks his own.
1:03:16>> He cooks his own meals. Yeah.
1:03:20>> Just always just always there though.
1:03:22>> Yeah. Well, there's nothing wrong with
1:03:24that.
1:03:25>> Yeah.
1:03:26>> You're not bothered by it at all.
1:03:28>> No, not at all. John doesn't I don't
1:03:30Well, actually, John was
1:03:32>> Cuz it's John's house.
1:03:34>> Yeah.
1:03:35>> And you live there with John?
1:03:36>> Well, now that I've sold my house, but
1:03:39I'm waiting for the house next door that
1:03:42um
1:03:43>> Who's who's who owns the house next
1:03:45door? Or is that yours or is that
1:03:46Stanley's?
1:03:47>> No. Not Stanley. Stanley doesn't have
1:03:50anything. I mean, he's got here. He's
1:03:52making good money. I don't know what But
1:03:54he doesn't spend money on anything. So,
1:03:56I don't know what he has or doesn't
1:03:58have.
1:03:59>> Where is
1:04:01How does he get money? How does he make
1:04:03a living? Does he get a retirement check
1:04:06or
1:04:07>> Oh my god, he totally does. Yeah, sure
1:04:09he does.
1:04:12>> Where how you get your living? Yeah,
1:04:14I've got to
1:04:16I get this retirement or whatever you
1:04:19want to call. I'm getting cold in here.
1:04:21Yeah, I get um
1:04:23retirement. Yes,
1:04:25>> retirement. Okay.
1:04:27But Stan is always there
1:04:30being a pain.
1:04:32>> Being in a pain?
1:04:33>> No, not at all. He's
1:04:36>> He gets up. He stays up at night. He
1:04:38sleeps all day.
1:04:39>> Mhm.
1:04:40>> It's not
1:04:41>> What are you doing during the day?
1:04:44What am I doing right now? What I'm
1:04:46doing is
1:04:46>> What do you Yeah. What do you How What's
1:04:48your typical day? I mean, he's in
1:04:50sleeping.
1:04:57He's in sleeping. What do you do?
1:05:00>> Well, right now what I'm doing is
1:05:03because I've got neuropathy is that uh
1:05:06I'm going to the gym every day because
1:05:08that seems to be
1:05:09>> Mhm.
1:05:10I had brought a wonderful doctor here
1:05:13that I was had for years and everything
1:05:16was fine
1:05:17>> until you know I went to him. I said my
1:05:19feet are just burning and then he's just
1:05:21so you got neuropathy. He gives me a
1:05:23prescription and here I thought this
1:05:25doctor was I mean don't
1:05:27>> nothing to do what we're doing talking
1:05:29about now but he was my doctor for years
1:05:31and I really trusted him
1:05:33>> and then people started telling me that
1:05:35I you know was you know which I could
1:05:37see was I was struggling for words and
1:05:40everything and then I went and looked up
1:05:43the prescription he gave me and that's
1:05:45the side effect of the prescription
1:05:49so I stopped taking it. So that's what
1:05:52I've been doing now is
1:05:54>> typical the side effects are worse than
1:05:56what
1:05:57>> was made to treat.
1:05:59>> Yeah.
1:06:00>> So, you know, I'm going to the gym, but
1:06:01I found that the one thing that
1:06:03absolutely
1:06:04worked was uh was the gym was the uh
1:06:09>> the elliptical machine.
1:06:12>> Yeah.
1:06:12>> Goes like goes like this. Yeah. Yeah.
1:06:14Yeah. that I I mean I would go there
1:06:16just having trouble walking
1:06:19>> and get get off that and I can walk fine
1:06:21and um and now it has spread up to to my
1:06:24knees. Now I am working with
1:06:26>> say well the first thing I did when I
1:06:28found out that this prescription which
1:06:31is the only thing that's really seems to
1:06:33be available for it was causing these
1:06:36problems.
1:06:38So then um
1:06:40so then I start I called every doctor
1:06:44within her driving range.
1:06:46>> Mhm.
1:06:47>> That you know said neuropathy and
1:06:48everyone said they were backed up you
1:06:51know for for weeks for a day
1:06:53>> and all and then um so then I kept doing
1:06:57then I started doing then I started
1:06:59talking anyway and it came down to
1:07:01thinking well I could just accomplish
1:07:03the same thing myself. So that's what
1:07:06what I've been focusing on is
1:07:09>> well
1:07:11Detective Adolf is probably going to
1:07:15look for you for a ride to take you over
1:07:18to the jail.
1:07:19>> It's so cold there. I
1:07:22>> Well,
1:07:23like I said,
1:07:27this is the end of our investigation.
1:07:31This is what this is what the end when
1:07:32we do our investigations. This is what
1:07:34they look like. Okay. A warrant to
1:07:37arrest. We've showed a judge that we
1:07:41have the evidence
1:07:42>> just to arrest you.
1:07:44>> Just the day you did all this.
1:07:46>> Mhm.
1:07:47>> Well, it's been over a week or so.
1:07:51>> But the final conclusion, it only takes
1:07:53that long to write a little piece of
1:07:55paper.
1:07:55>> This whole thing is
1:07:56>> explain it to a judge and explain
1:07:58explain to the judge.
1:08:00>> Okay. that we have all the evidence
1:08:04to charge you with solicitation for
1:08:08murder.
1:08:09Okay?
1:08:14So,
1:08:17he's going to go find you a ride. And
1:08:19like I said earlier,
1:08:23it it isn't something we just made up.
1:08:26Okay. It does. It sounds very like It
1:08:30does sound bizarre. It's very bizarre. I
1:08:33thought it was bizarre when I first
1:08:34heard about the tip. I'm like, there's
1:08:36no way.
1:08:39A sweet old lady 80 80 years old.
1:08:42There's no way she wants to commit
1:08:44murder.
1:08:46And then as we dug in and we dug in,
1:08:50I was sitting there and I was listening
1:08:52to the video and the audio from
1:08:56your meeting today. I'm like, well,
1:08:59there it is.
1:09:00>> Well, that's where
1:09:01>> I took all the notes. Those are all my
1:09:04notes.
1:09:05As I was writing it down and listening
1:09:07to the audio.
1:09:10So, when Detective Adolf prepared this
1:09:13warrant, we had all the information
1:09:14right in front of us.
1:09:18All our notes went into here,
1:09:20backed up with all that audio and video
1:09:25of your meeting today with Mike.
1:09:30We picked you up at the house. You guys
1:09:32went down the street.
1:09:41I don't want the next time
1:09:44somebody hears your story
1:09:46that what's on that video is the only
1:09:49story they're going to hear.
1:09:53I I want to give you the chance right
1:09:55now to explain
1:09:58why you got to this point.
1:10:01why I got to this.
1:10:03>> Why did you How did you get to that
1:10:04point that you made
1:10:07this offer to that gentleman
1:10:11to kill your brother? That's what this
1:10:13is.
1:10:15I'm asking someone to kill my brother.
1:10:18That's what this warrant says.
1:10:33help me understand.
1:10:34>> Yeah, I I don't understand at all.
1:10:36>> You do.
1:10:37>> I don't.
1:10:38>> You're You're very intelligently. You
1:10:41understand. You know, there's no more
1:10:44there's no more playing it off.
1:10:49The next time somebody hears your story,
1:10:53it is going to be that you wanted to
1:10:56kill your brother.
1:10:59If you don't tell us now that there was
1:11:02a reason behind it, that you're sorry,
1:11:04that you're sorry, you don't that you
1:11:07didn't you care about your brother and
1:11:10you made a mistake. Mistakes happen.
1:11:13It's okay.
1:11:17But if you don't tell us, no one's ever
1:11:19going to know that.
1:11:22They're going to know what we play on
1:11:24that video. That's all they're going to
1:11:26know.
1:11:28Well, I don't know how you got how this
1:11:31came about. I really don't.
1:11:33>> No, I don't.
1:11:34>> It doesn't matter how it came about.
1:11:36>> Well, it does matter.
1:11:37>> It doesn't matter how it came about.
1:11:40It came about because you said the words
1:11:58You know what? What I'm telling you is
1:12:00the truth.
1:12:05I've been straight forward with you. All
1:12:07the things that we've shown you, it's
1:12:08all the stuff that happened from today.
1:12:13You know it's the truth.
1:12:21You can't make it go away at this point.
1:12:22I can't make it go away at this point.
1:12:26It's It's done.
1:12:33I can see that you're sorry. I see that
1:12:35in your eyes right now.
1:12:37It's just hit you. The reality of where
1:12:40you're at just hit you.
1:12:41>> Yeah.
1:12:43>> No,
1:12:54you
1:12:56But I feel like this is just a setup.
1:12:59I don't know how I got into this. I
1:13:01really don't.
1:13:03You said the words.
1:13:24somebody out to my house
1:13:29>> that tells us to go out there. Yeah.
1:13:34>> This is what you said that got us to
1:13:38come talk to you.
1:13:40>> But how'd you send that person out?
1:13:43>> Because you said this.
1:13:46>> You didn't say this the the big legal
1:13:49ease. You said you wanted somebody to
1:13:51kill your brother.
1:13:54That's what this is. You said that.
1:14:00>> Is there a restroom here?
1:14:01>> There is.
1:14:02>> I'm going to have to go.
1:14:04>> Okay.
1:14:06Give me a minute. I have to get somebody
1:14:08to walk you down there. Okay.
1:14:10>> Thank you.
1:14:12>> Don't even interrupt you.
1:14:13>> Well, it's all right. I know you've been
1:14:15drinking your water.
1:14:21Give me one second to go find somebody.
1:14:23Okay.
1:14:24>> Thank you very much.
1:16:23Okay, Elise, you want to come this way?
1:16:24>> Sure.
1:16:26>> Take your time.
1:16:31Don't grab that chair. It'll slide
1:16:32around.
1:16:35Okay, we're going to go down here and go
1:16:36down this hallway. Just follow this
1:16:38deputy right here.
1:23:24Okay, come on in. Have a seat for me and
1:23:26I'll be right back with you. Okay,
1:23:28>> sure.
1:24:14Okay.
1:24:17Well, anyway, the idea
1:25:19No, I don't.
1:25:20>> You do. You do. What do I understand?
1:26:40Now is your chance.
1:26:41>> Chance to do what?
1:26:43>> Chance to show me that you're sorry
1:26:47for trying to get your brother killed.
1:26:50>> You set it up, Eloise. Nothing. You said
1:26:53that nothing was going to happen.
1:26:55>> When was it supposed to happen?
1:26:57>> Nothing was going to happen.
1:26:58>> Yes, it was.
1:26:59>> No, it wasn't.
1:27:01>> What was What did you want What did you
1:27:03want him to do to kill your brother?
1:27:05What did you tell him you wanted him to
1:27:07do?
1:27:08>> What did I tell him?
1:27:09>> Yeah. How did you want Mike to do it?
1:27:13How' you want him to kill your brother?
1:27:20>> This doesn't make sense. How did how did
1:27:22you want him to kill your brother?
1:27:26>> Do you think that somebody's going to do
1:27:28somebody that I don't know that doesn't
1:27:31know me
1:27:32is going to it's going to do for a car
1:27:35that hasn't
1:27:36>> How did you
1:27:38want him to kill your brother?
1:27:42>> Nothing was going to happen.
1:27:44>> How did you want him to kill?
1:27:46>> What do you mean how did I want him to?
1:27:49You told you asked him to do a certain
1:27:52thing to kill Stanley.
1:27:58What was it you wanted him to do to kill
1:28:00Stanley?
1:28:05>> I don't.
1:28:05>> You said it on the phone.
1:28:09>> What do you mean on the phone?
1:28:10>> When you talked to Mike on the phone,
1:28:15Mike was sitting right in that room and
1:28:17we were all listening. I was talking to
1:28:20to Michael, you mean?
1:28:21>> Yes.
1:28:22>> My friend Michael?
1:28:23>> Yes.
1:28:27>> Michael has a conscience. Michael's a
1:28:29human. He has a conscience.
1:28:32He's not going to kill somebody for you.
1:28:35>> Well, then why is what's all this thing
1:28:37then about?
1:28:38>> Because Michael
1:28:40>> found his buddy Mike the truck driver.
1:28:43And you asked Mike to do it.
1:28:45>> I don't know.
1:28:46>> How did you ask Mike? Never even
1:28:48>> What did you tell Mike? How you wanted
1:28:50him to kill Sam?
1:28:52>> That doesn't make any sense. Now,
1:28:55>> how many mics are there?
1:28:56>> There's two, but the other Mike is a
1:29:00police officer. How did you
1:29:02>> The one Okay,
1:29:03>> the guy you talked to today
1:29:05>> is a police officer.
1:29:06>> How did you want him to kill Stanley?
1:29:08>> Nothing was going to happen. Nothing.
1:29:10>> How did you want him to kill Stanley?
1:29:14>> He wasn't going to do anything.
1:29:20No, cuz he's a good person. But you
1:29:23wanted him to. You asked him to.
1:29:28How did you ask him to do it?
1:29:37>> Pick one of four cuz you gave up four
1:29:40different ways. I did.
1:29:42>> Yes, you did.
1:29:48The words came out of your mouth, Elise.
1:29:51We all heard them.
1:30:03>> I don't know how you would
1:30:06go.
1:30:06>> We showed you the picture.
1:30:07>> I know. I'm just
1:30:08>> I showed you your drawing. You showed
1:30:11that guy. You showed that guy how to get
1:30:15in the house, how to get to Stanley's
1:30:18room
1:30:20>> so he could kill him.
1:30:23>> How did you tell him?
1:30:24>> Nothing was Nothing was going on.
1:30:26>> How did you tell him to kill him? You
1:30:27set all the plans into motion. You made
1:30:30all the plans. You arranged to pay him.
1:30:33>> Arranged to pay him. No, I the a vehicle
1:30:36that hasn't been driven in three years.
1:30:40>> You offered it to him. He asked me about
1:30:43it.
1:30:44I didn't offer it to him. He asked me.
1:30:46>> You offered it to him.
1:30:48>> He asked me about the car.
1:30:50>> How did you want him to kill Stanley?
1:30:55>> Why are you asking me this when nothing
1:30:56was going to happen?
1:31:00>> You asked him to kill Stanley.
1:31:11I did not ask him to kill Stanley.
1:31:13>> You did?
1:31:19>> There were a couple of different ways
1:31:21you asked him to kill Stanley
1:31:27and he was going to do it.
1:31:32>> You think that's believable?
1:31:35What's believable is I heard you
1:31:39ask him to kill Stanley multiple times.
1:31:50Multiple times.
1:31:52>> This is
1:31:53>> We told you. I already told you this has
1:31:55been going on.
1:31:55>> He's a complete stranger
1:31:59>> cuz you wanted Mike to do it. Mike's not
1:32:01going to do it. your friend Michael that
1:32:02worked for you at the farm. He's not
1:32:05going to do it.
1:32:05>> No, he's not. He never said he
1:32:10>> told you he'd find somebody for you,
1:32:11though.
1:32:12>> Well, he didn't.
1:32:13>> He did?
1:32:14>> No, he did.
1:32:14>> You sat with him in the car today.
1:32:16>> He didn't find him.
1:32:18>> Yeah, he did.
1:32:19>> How did he find him?
1:32:21>> Run in the paper and say,
1:32:23>> "Told you he was your his his buddy,
1:32:25right? He was his buddy from prison."
1:32:28>> Well, that's what wasn't true.
1:32:30It isn't now. Now that we've told you
1:32:33it's not true,
1:32:36but that doesn't take away from what you
1:32:39asked him to do and the way you asked
1:32:42him to do it
1:32:46>> and he was going to do it for
1:32:48it that doesn't make any sense at all.
1:32:52>> It's what you agreed to.
1:32:55It's what you agreed to.
1:32:57>> I agreed that he would get a car. That's
1:33:00that sat in the sat there for 3 years
1:33:03and he was going to That's ridiculous.
1:33:09>> It's what you agreed to. You agreed for
1:33:11him to kill Stanley
1:33:14>> for for a car that sat me for three
1:33:17years. That doesn't this doesn't make
1:33:19any sense at all.
1:33:25>> So make it make sense.
1:33:26>> It How do you make sense of it? It
1:33:28doesn't make sense.
1:33:31>> So that whole video was me just
1:33:35imagining stuff.
1:33:36>> No, I just think it doesn't. Nothing was
1:33:38going to happen.
1:33:40>> This detective imagining things. Charlie
1:33:43imagining things.
1:33:44>> No, I
1:33:45>> all the other people that said
1:33:48that were listening to that, that was
1:33:50all us just imagining things.
1:33:53>> No, not but nothing was going to happen.
1:33:55Nothing was. That doesn't make any sense
1:33:56that somebody would do something like
1:33:58that. That's ridiculous.
1:34:01So why did you ask him?
1:34:10>> Nothing was going to happen.
1:34:11>> Why did you ask him?
1:34:24Your brother's done something to you.
1:34:26>> My brother has
1:34:26>> Your brother's done something to you.
1:34:28You You asked somebody.
1:34:29>> My brother has
1:34:30>> to kill your brother.
1:34:31>> My brother has never done anything to
1:34:34me. My brother's a
1:34:36>> He's a pathetic person.
1:34:38>> He's a pathetic person.
1:34:40>> Well, I mean, I think he is.
1:34:42>> How is he a pathetic person? somebody
1:34:43who's stays up all night and then sleeps
1:34:47all day and doesn't do anything. I think
1:34:54>> if your brother's done something to you
1:34:56that never that never goes away.
1:34:59>> My brother's never done anything goes
1:35:00away.
1:35:01>> My brother has never done anything to
1:35:03me.
1:35:03>> That's not what the rest of you is
1:35:05telling me.
1:35:07>> He's never done anything to me.
1:35:08>> But he's a pathetic person and you want
1:35:10him to go away.
1:35:15Well, it' be nice if he doesn't have any
1:35:16place to go. I He's got He could if he
1:35:20wanted to, but anyway, I imagine. But
1:35:22>> But you came up with a plan to get him
1:35:24to go somewhere.
1:35:25>> Well, we
1:35:26>> six feet under
1:35:27>> and somebody's going to do that for
1:35:30for I guess I keep saying the same
1:35:32thing. I think somebody's going to do
1:35:34that. Did you know? Sorry, but did you
1:35:36know today's meeting was just kind of it
1:35:39wasn't going to happen, but you had it
1:35:41anyways?
1:35:42>> Well, it was ridiculous.
1:35:44>> I know it seemed ridiculous.
1:35:46>> I mean, a ridiculous I keep saying the
1:35:48same thing for a for a car that sat in
1:35:52the yard for three years. The car isn't
1:35:55even the engine's never been started on.
1:35:57>> So, you you I mean, when you got in the
1:35:59car, you knew right away it was this is
1:36:02just I'll just go along with it. But um
1:36:05and what was he wanting to do? He was
1:36:07saying he was going to do something for
1:36:08that car.
1:36:10He was claiming he was going to do what?
1:36:14>> Well, he
1:36:16said that the whole thing didn't make
1:36:18any sense.
1:36:19>> I know it didn't make sense. It It
1:36:21didn't make any sense to any of us. Um
1:36:24well, was that he he it was agreed upon
1:36:27that he was going to smother your
1:36:29brother, I think, for $3,000 car or
1:36:31whatever it is.
1:36:32>> It's not as if
1:36:33But the
1:36:35>> $500 car. How much is it?
1:36:36>> I have no I mean I think the car is
1:36:38worthless.
1:36:39>> Oh, but it was like agreed upon that he
1:36:42was going to
1:36:43>> I don't think there was any agreed.
1:36:49>> You think he was lying to you
1:36:51>> about what?
1:36:52>> About doing whatever he was going to do
1:36:53for the car.
1:36:55>> Well, it doesn't make any sense, does
1:36:56it?
1:36:57>> No,
1:36:59but you talked about it. Well,
1:37:11>> the car doesn't sit out for 3 years and
1:37:13be worth anything.
1:37:15>> Well, you showed him the car.
1:37:18You took him back to the house and let
1:37:19him see the car.
1:37:20>> Well, he looked looked through and I The
1:37:23whole thing was I mean, it was just so
1:37:25so ridiculous. He didn't even go look at
1:37:27the car. He just Oh, the car is there.
1:37:29Well, that's the whole thing is just
1:37:32>> So, what I'm trying to get at is
1:37:35nothing was going to happen.
1:37:37>> No, nothing was
1:37:38>> You guys made a plan, but you knew that
1:37:40it was just a fantasy. Really?
1:37:43>> We didn't make a plan.
1:37:45>> You didn't make a plan at all.
1:37:46>> Well, I mean, I don't remember making a
1:37:48plan. The whole thing was just
1:37:49>> But you said nothing was going to
1:37:51happen. implying that
1:37:55you guys talked about something, but you
1:37:57knew that it was too good to be true
1:37:59pretty much.
1:37:59>> Well, ridiculous when he says he does
1:38:01this for whatever amount. He said
1:38:0318,000, but he'll do it for a for a car
1:38:06that's sat up for 3 years.
1:38:08>> Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. Um, and then
1:38:12I mean
1:38:15and especially the way that he was going
1:38:16to do it because if you're going to
1:38:19smothering somebody is not worth a van
1:38:23like that or shooting somebody in the
1:38:24head
1:38:26>> is not worth something like that. Um,
1:38:30but he wanted to get Where did he want
1:38:31to get back to?
1:38:34Wasn't he on his way somewhere?
1:38:37Um,
1:38:45said something.
1:38:46>> Was it Florida or was North Florida?
1:38:48>> I don't know.
1:38:49>> Tennessee
1:38:53and some money was given to him or to
1:38:58somebody for gas.
1:39:01>> I I gave some money to um
1:39:05to uh Michael for some gas, but not
1:39:08enough to
1:39:09up the drive up there, wherever it was.
1:39:11>> How much did you give him?
1:39:13>> I I gave I gave I have given him over
1:39:16the last I've given him some money at
1:39:18different times cuz
1:39:20>> I felt bad that his sister is wealthy
1:39:23and
1:39:24>> and he's staying in a trailer there and
1:39:26he asked
1:39:28because he did work for me at one time
1:39:30and he was
1:39:32you know he was that's the only reason I
1:39:35didn't have dealing with him.
1:39:37>> Yeah.
1:39:38I understand that. But so these
1:39:41detectives here, they they were uh you
1:39:44know trying to just get something across
1:39:46to you. I know nothing was going to
1:39:48happen and thank God nothing did happen.
1:39:51Do you agree?
1:39:51>> Of course.
1:39:52>> Right. Um because if we were in a
1:39:54situation to where
1:39:57this guy that you met today
1:39:59uh and drove down to the end of the road
1:40:01and then went back to the house to show
1:40:04the van, if it was somebody that ended
1:40:06up killing your brother and we found out
1:40:08about it, you would be going to jail for
1:40:10murder. Um accessory to murder, right?
1:40:14And that's the worst of the worst.
1:40:18Luckily, we didn't get to that point. It
1:40:20was just talked about today about coming
1:40:23up with a plan,
1:40:26but nothing was going to happen because
1:40:29the plan was too good to be true is what
1:40:31you're telling.
1:40:31>> Too good to be true. The whole thing was
1:40:33just ridiculous.
1:40:35>> Yeah. Nobody's going to go smother
1:40:37somebody for a van that's been sitting
1:40:39for 3 years.
1:40:40>> I mean, it just
1:40:42>> it didn't make sense.
1:40:43>> No, that doesn't make sense.
1:40:44>> Um,
1:40:46and especially shooting somebody. I
1:40:48mean, that's horrific.
1:40:49>> Did he say that? I don't remember.
1:40:51>> Oh, I think he uh he might have said
1:40:53something or maybe it was there was
1:40:56there were a couple ways.
1:40:58>> I know I didn't say
1:40:59>> no. What what
1:41:10I don't even know how it got into.
1:41:15I mean, but
1:41:17the whole thing seems so ridiculous.
1:41:20Well, it it's but like I said, thank
1:41:24goodness we're not at murder.
1:41:26>> Well, yeah,
1:41:27>> right. Because if the wrong person got
1:41:29this information, you would be in a
1:41:31different situation. Here is just
1:41:33solicitation to commit murder is what
1:41:35the charge is.
1:41:36>> But what? I don't have any money to pay
1:41:38anybody. So, what I mean, that doesn't
1:41:40make any sense, does it?
1:41:42>> I I agree. And that's why we're just
1:41:46trying to figure out well what
1:41:49>> if he didn't have money to do it.
1:41:50>> So how did he I mean how did he get
1:41:54>> how did he get what?
1:41:55>> So how did he get I mean I don't
1:41:58I don't understand how he got involved
1:42:00in this. I know that I understand that
1:42:02you all
1:42:04>> but it doesn't
1:42:06>> I know it's
1:42:07>> it doesn't make any sense at all. And
1:42:09I'm going to help you make it make sense
1:42:11just like they did. And unfortunately it
1:42:13works. But we found out that you were
1:42:17having some issues with your brother.
1:42:19Big or small, who knows?
1:42:21>> Wait, I've never had any issues with my
1:42:23brother.
1:42:23>> You just
1:42:25and you reached out and tried to find
1:42:27somebody to get get rid of your brother
1:42:29in some way.
1:42:30>> No.
1:42:32>> And you agree?
1:42:33>> My brother is a miserable person, but
1:42:35that's
1:42:35>> that's fine.
1:42:36>> His life.
1:42:37>> Yep. And then you agreed to
1:42:39>> he stays up all the I mean he's I don't
1:42:42very rarely see him.
1:42:45>> It's his he's I think he's got a
1:42:49that's kind of a wasted life but that's
1:42:52his
1:42:54so I I don't know.
1:42:58Yeah. Then he got in the car with them
1:43:01this morning
1:43:03or afternoon and he went
1:43:05>> whatever it was.
1:43:07>> What?
1:43:08>> Oh, I I guess I'm trying to remember. I
1:43:10guess guess it was afternoon somehow.
1:43:16>> And uh and then you started talking to
1:43:20this guy, the truck driver. Um
1:43:23>> all those
1:43:25>> whatever he does for a living, I don't
1:43:27know. Right. And uh and then come to
1:43:29find out you guys talked about a plan,
1:43:34went back to your house, showed him the
1:43:37van
1:43:40>> from a distance.
1:43:41>> From a distance, which is probably a
1:43:44good thing. Um
1:43:47and then we we reviewed all the
1:43:49information. The person that you were in
1:43:51the car with today was a law enforcement
1:43:53officer. undercover just trying to
1:43:57figure out were you really wanting to
1:44:00kill your brother or not? And that's why
1:44:02we we wanted to see that and you said
1:44:05you don't want to kill your brother. Um
1:44:09but you talked about it with this guy
1:44:11and you guys came up with a plan which
1:44:13you thought was silly and then thought
1:44:15nothing was going to happen.
1:44:16>> Yeah.
1:44:21We're just confused on the why is all we
1:44:24know.
1:44:25>> I guess my I guess my brother's going to
1:44:27be really wondering. But
1:44:29>> we already talked to him.
1:44:30>> Oh, you did?
1:44:31>> Yes, ma'am.
1:44:32>> So, what did he have to say?
1:44:33>> Um, he's in complete shock.
1:44:36>> That's understandable.
1:44:38and and you know and he he thanked the
1:44:41sheriff's office and said that we may
1:44:43have saved his life, but he doesn't know
1:44:45just like we don't know what why is to
1:44:48what we're just trying to figure out.
1:44:50And I'd love to help answer that
1:44:52question for everybody. I think um
1:44:55you've been sweet and respectful and uh
1:44:59I think you love your brother also as
1:45:01much as you think he's a miserable
1:45:02person. Um, but I was just wondering is
1:45:06are you were you just trying to help him
1:45:08not be miserable anymore?
1:45:10>> Um,
1:45:11>> well, I wouldn't do anything that
1:45:14>> cause pain.
1:45:15>> No, I mean I wouldn't that's that's his
1:45:17life. It's not not my it's not me to
1:45:20determine his life. If he's happy with
1:45:22his life,
1:45:24I don't know how he can be happy with
1:45:25his life, but if he is, that's
1:45:27>> Well, unfortunately, we got to a point
1:45:29today um that you were making that
1:45:33decision for him with somebody else. And
1:45:36the thing,
1:45:37>> but it wasn't ever,
1:45:39>> but I know and that's fine.
1:45:42Was this like a
1:45:45game for you? Were you just playing
1:45:46around with that?
1:45:47>> It's not like But you said it's never
1:45:50going to happen. What if it did?
1:45:54Have you thought about that?
1:45:59>> It's It's If he's happy with his I don't
1:46:02know how he can be happy with his life,
1:46:03but if he's happy with his life, that's
1:46:06>> But what if this guy killed him?
1:46:09>> That's It doesn't make any It's
1:46:11>> But what if he did?
1:46:12>> He wouldn't.
1:46:13>> Why not?
1:46:17Then you would be in big trouble.
1:46:20Some complete stranger is going to go
1:46:24for a car that doesn't even drive.
1:46:26That's doesn't make the whole thing
1:46:27doesn't make any sense.
1:46:31>> Would you have felt sorry if he killed
1:46:32him?
1:46:35>> It It's not possible.
1:46:37>> Why isn't it? It is possible
1:46:39>> that he would kill my brother, but I
1:46:42don't think so. I don't see how it could
1:46:43be possible.
1:46:47>> But what if
1:46:50But what if he did? Would you be happy?
1:46:52Would you be sad? That's what I'm
1:46:54asking.
1:46:56>> Well, I certainly wouldn't be happy. I
1:46:58don't think I wouldn't
1:47:00be
1:47:03I don't think I be I mean, I don't My
1:47:06brother's I very seldom see my brother.
1:47:09This was unusual that he was up. I don't
1:47:11know why he was up at that time today.
1:47:13But um
1:47:14>> would you say that you love your brother
1:47:16or no?
1:47:23I don't know.
1:47:23>> You don't know?
1:47:25>> I don't That doesn't That doesn't I'm
1:47:27just wondering. I mean, some people have
1:47:29siblings that they're not close with and
1:47:31don't have that I love you feeling.
1:47:36>> Well, of course. I mean,
1:47:39certainly in all these years, he's never
1:47:41I mean, that doesn't that sounds
1:47:42bizarre.
1:47:44>> What?
1:47:47I don't think he'd ever say he loves me.
1:47:49Say
1:47:50>> So he's never said he loves you and
1:47:51you've never not.
1:47:53>> Okay. And have you said you love Do you
1:47:55But do you Yes or no? Do you love your
1:47:57brother?
1:47:59>> I feel sorry for my brother.
1:48:02Like I think I said to somebody here
1:48:04before that uh you know back many years
1:48:07ago when I was doing a lot of things. I
1:48:10was competing in triathlons. I was doing
1:48:12a lot of things and he's you know 10
1:48:15years younger than I am. He
1:48:19he was doing very well and I mean
1:48:22mentally until he found out he had this
1:48:26this neurop this disease that um so that
1:48:30kind of you know he was a he was an
1:48:33athlete and then all of a sudden you
1:48:36know he wasn't
1:48:37>> wasn't ever going to be.
1:48:40But um
1:48:44you know he's had he doesn't have a
1:48:46single friend in the whole world. He's
1:48:49got two ex-wives that hate him. He's got
1:48:52the one wife. He's got the you know two
1:48:55kids that absolutely nothing to do with
1:48:58him.
1:48:59He sounds it's he sounds like he's the
1:49:02way you portray him that he's miserable
1:49:04and
1:49:04>> well he doesn't I don't think he thinks
1:49:06he's miserable but um
1:49:07>> well the life I guess then you think
1:49:10that he's miserable um
1:49:12>> well I think it's that's the way he's
1:49:14always been I mean this he was he was
1:49:18really he was um I guess athlete in high
1:49:23school then all of a sudden he wasn't
1:49:26all of a sudden you know he was
1:49:28diagnosed
1:49:31Do you think that life would be better
1:49:34if he passed
1:49:36>> for him? He's I don't think I don't see
1:49:39that he's unhappy with I mean he doesn't
1:49:42say anything about being unhappy with
1:49:43his life.
1:49:45>> Would it be So would it be better? Would
1:49:48it be would your life be better if he
1:49:50wasn't here anymore?
1:49:51>> No, I don't.
1:49:56It wouldn't make any difference.
1:49:58>> Okay.
1:50:03>> I mean, like I said, he he sleeps all
1:50:06day. I hear him in his room at night, so
1:50:10he's up doing, you know, he's in his
1:50:11he's awake at night, but we never do
1:50:14anything together. He never I don't see
1:50:16that he ever gets on his bicycle and
1:50:19goes to the store to buy things
1:50:20sometimes.
1:50:23So he doesn't contribute to rent at the
1:50:25house.
1:50:26>> Well, he didn't for all these years now.
1:50:29Now, um he is contributing to
1:50:32>> Oh, nice.
1:50:33>> But you know, he didn't. I mean, he's
1:50:35been there for a long time. This is
1:50:38here. Anyway, no, now he is contri
1:50:41That's. That's between him and John.
1:50:42Okay.
1:50:43>> Nothing to do with
1:50:44>> So, you're not you're not owed anything.
1:50:46>> Oh, no.
1:50:47>> He doesn't owe you any money at all. No,
1:50:50>> I don't owe him anything. He doesn't owe
1:50:51me anything.
1:50:52>> Okay, so we've estab Okay. But worst
1:50:55worst things he really does is he stays
1:50:57up all night and sleeps during the day.
1:50:59>> Well, that's not the worst. I mean,
1:51:01that's his life. I'm not saying that's
1:51:04the worst thing he does.
1:51:05>> Doesn't bother you. He's not not mean to
1:51:08you.
1:51:08>> No. No. If I was
1:51:11>> He's never May have money. Does he have
1:51:14money?
1:51:16He has a um
1:51:19I know. Yeah, he gets he gets social
1:51:22security.
1:51:23>> So he gets social security. Does he own
1:51:25anything?
1:51:27>> Does he own anything?
1:51:28>> Yes, ma'am.
1:51:29>> He owns the the car that sat out there
1:51:31for 3 years.
1:51:33>> So the van today that you showed that
1:51:35guy was his van.
1:51:37>> Yeah. Oh.
1:51:38>> Well, I guess if he was no longer here,
1:51:40it have to go to somebody.
1:51:42>> Yeah.
1:51:43>> Um
1:51:43>> I mean, I can't imagine after three
1:51:45years that it's worth anything.
1:51:48>> Well, I mean, if everything is worth
1:51:50something to somebody, right?
1:51:52>> Let's say in Florida. Okay. All right.
1:51:54Now, if you had two vans
1:51:58>> before this one, he had one that was
1:52:00over at my house
1:52:02>> and that
1:52:06rats got into it. I mean, it was worth
1:52:08it was worthless. No matter whatever he
1:52:10paid for it, it was worthless,
1:52:11>> right?
1:52:13And this one, I'm sure, was heading in
1:52:14the same direction.
1:52:16>> For somebody that doesn't have a
1:52:17vehicle, it would be
1:52:21>> um
1:52:22>> nice. So, I mean, better than no
1:52:24vehicle.
1:52:25>> If it sat for 3 years, it's probably not
1:52:28running.
1:52:28>> It probably would cost a lot of money to
1:52:31>> I know I know the one that was over at
1:52:33the other house, the rats got into it.
1:52:35The wiring all got chewed up. It was It
1:52:38was worth it.
1:52:39>> Is that all you had to offer today? Did
1:52:42you not have anything else to offer
1:52:43other than
1:52:44>> I didn't I wasn't discussed. I didn't
1:52:48>> What do you mean it wasn't discussed?
1:52:50>> I mean,
1:52:50>> this lead.
1:52:53>> Okay. You said he wanted
1:53:01but then but all you have But what I'm
1:53:04saying is is all you have right now. Do
1:53:06you have anything worth any money? Do
1:53:08you own anything?
1:53:11that
1:53:11>> you could have gave today other than
1:53:13>> No, I mean
1:53:15>> so the van Why wasn't the van offered
1:53:18when it was your brother's?
1:53:22>> I I mean he's I don't think I I didn't
1:53:25offer I think he did. I think I don't
1:53:28know
1:53:28>> he brought it up.
1:53:31>> I I don't I really don't remember
1:53:33because the whole thing was so
1:53:34preposterous. I don't remember. I don't
1:53:37know sure.
1:53:40you
1:53:40>> the whole thing is just doesn't make any
1:53:42sense.
1:53:43>> Well, you facilitated trying to find
1:53:46somebody to fulfill um
1:53:51the murder of your brother Stan
1:53:54and then it happened today.
1:53:57>> But it wasn't
1:53:58>> but and then you unfortunately for you,
1:54:00you met an undercover detective.
1:54:04>> Um
1:54:04>> well, nothing was going to happen
1:54:06though.
1:54:06>> I know. We know. We know.
1:54:10We're We're trying to help you and your
1:54:12brother here.
1:54:14>> Well, maybe
1:54:15>> that's why we were doing it to stop
1:54:16this.
1:54:17>> Maybe you did help Maybe you did help my
1:54:18brother. Maybe he'll
1:54:20>> I think we did. And I think
1:54:21>> I think maybe he'll see how
1:54:23>> And I think we helped you see that you
1:54:27might have made an error in in making
1:54:29those decisions. And thank God we didn't
1:54:32get to the point to where
1:54:34>> nothing was going to happen.
1:54:38Because we were involved.
1:54:40>> No. What was going to happen?
1:54:44>> The stuff that you and him talked about
1:54:46could have happened.
1:54:48>> Not with him.
1:54:49>> Why not with him?
1:54:52>> Because it would
1:54:54nothing's I mean because the whole thing
1:54:56is just
1:54:57>> It's okay. Where'd you go to college?
1:54:59>> Ambassador.
1:55:00>> Okay. Anywhere else?
1:55:02>> No.
1:55:03>> Okay.
1:55:04Um,
1:55:07Detective Adolf had mentioned it and so
1:55:09did Detective Slingerland, but you
1:55:14educated individual. Um, like I said,
1:55:17and you've been very respectful. You
1:55:18haven't been rude or anything.
1:55:20>> Well,
1:55:22Go ahead.
1:55:23>> Well, I don't know if there's there's
1:55:25nothing to be rude about. I mean, this
1:55:27whole thing is just
1:55:28>> But but you're you're you're
1:55:31kind of and and we'll end here shortly
1:55:34so we can get this rolling. You keep
1:55:37saying nothing's going to happen and
1:55:39beating around the bush and we we have
1:55:41told you that we have watched and
1:55:44listened to everything. I was in the
1:55:46truck.
1:55:46>> Yeah. Right. And then you keep like just
1:55:49acting like none of this ever happened
1:55:50today. And
1:55:51>> I'm not saying didn't happen today. I'm
1:55:53saying nothing just
1:55:54>> nothing was going to happen. But you
1:55:55keep like just beating around the bush.
1:55:57I know. I I know when you got in a car
1:56:01or you got into the passenger seat. We
1:56:02all do. We watched it on video. It's
1:56:04live feed. We were It's a cop.
1:56:07>> We know what you guys discussed
1:56:12and and and and the plan for the next
1:56:16coming days and about the van and you're
1:56:18like nothing's going to happen.
1:56:21Was it a mistake? Were you not thinking
1:56:23straight? Is he really mean and you just
1:56:26would like him gone from the house and
1:56:27we'll just tell him to move out?
1:56:30>> He's not mean.
1:56:30>> He said he'll move out if you want him
1:56:32to move out.
1:56:32>> I don't It doesn't bother me.
1:56:35>> So then
1:56:36>> I don't even see him. I just said
1:56:37>> when the video is played in court
1:56:41of you in that car and then you get on
1:56:43the stand beside the judge
1:56:46and they play the video and you go, I
1:56:48don't nothing was going to happen.
1:56:52How do you think that's going to
1:56:54Well,
1:56:55>> look.
1:56:57Well, look how it look. I mean, the
1:56:59whole thing's so ridiculous.
1:57:01>> I know that,
1:57:05but you said it.
1:57:10We're just trying to figure out why.
1:57:23I can't tell you anything because it
1:57:25doesn't make any sense.
1:57:34>> Do you know the date today?
1:57:39>> 13th for 14th. I don't know for sure.
1:57:5116
1:57:53day.
1:58:05What What day was your friend supposed
1:58:07to come back into town to meet you? Do
1:58:09you remember that?
1:58:13Were you supposed to meet this week at
1:58:14any point with your friend Mike?
1:58:19Michael. Um,
1:58:21I don't think so. Today was the only
1:58:24day.
1:58:27Yeah, I think
1:58:38I didn't even I just I don't think I
1:58:40even
1:58:41>> And then when when the car pulled up,
1:58:43you said he was there and then you guys
1:58:46went down the road, right? Yeah.
1:59:12Yeah. I don't I don't know what I don't
1:59:13know what Michael was doing actually.
1:59:16There was only one car, right? They came
1:59:19over. Is that right? They came over
1:59:20together. Yeah.
1:59:22It's the only word Michael was and
1:59:24that's a good question.
1:59:25>> So, we've established, you know, people
1:59:27showed up at your house.
1:59:29You've told me that your friend was
1:59:30there and you got out of the car. You
1:59:32were in the car alone.
1:59:34You remember that?
1:59:38>> You guys had conversation
1:59:40although you said nothing was going to
1:59:42happen. You guys conversation was about
1:59:48was it about
1:59:51>> with this guy that was there?
1:59:52>> Yeah.
1:59:54Was it about
2:01:24No,
2:01:26>> no.
2:01:26>> I mean, it didn't get any more bizarre.
2:01:31I just don't
2:01:33understand why um
2:01:36why Michael I mean,
2:01:41just doesn't make any sense. Well, it
2:01:43doesn't make sense to a lot of people
2:01:45because um
2:01:48it's unfortunate and not right that
2:01:51somebody would want to kill their
2:01:52brother or a loved one and murder is
2:01:56>> Yeah.
2:01:56>> is is there's no going back from that.
2:01:59Taking somebody's life is the worst of
2:02:01the worst.
2:02:02>> Yeah.
2:02:03>> Right. Right.
2:02:06>> Well, yeah. I mean, oh the news every
2:02:10single day. I mean, it's just it's just
2:02:13awful all across the world. It's just
2:02:15>> what's what
2:02:18tell me about that. What what's the most
2:02:20recent thing that's awful that you've
2:02:21seen on the news? Well, and that um
2:02:25well, of course, it's the ones that gets
2:02:26all the the one that gets all the
2:02:28attention where the that woman was
2:02:31killed, but then there's
2:02:35right now um they say 15,000
2:02:39people were just killed in this one
2:02:41country just in two days. I mean, I
2:02:43don't know whether that's true or not,
2:02:44but that's what I mean, that's just
2:02:46>> But so that's your thought process
2:02:48there.
2:02:50But then you arranged
2:02:53to have your brother killed.
2:02:54>> No, I didn't.
2:02:55>> You did today. You tried.
2:02:58>> I didn't. I mean, what do
2:02:59>> you mean you didn't?
2:03:00>> That was because it was just it just was
2:03:04just bizarre.
2:03:06>> Well, I don't understand what you mean
2:03:08by bizarre. Before we leave today, I got
2:03:10to figure out what do you mean by
2:03:11bizarre?
2:03:13>> That anybody would
2:03:16would do something like that for one
2:03:18thing. It just doesn't make any sense.
2:03:21>> Set it up or to do it.
2:03:25>> Well, the one we I mean it doesn't make
2:03:28any sense.
2:03:32>> But then why did we why did we go
2:03:34through with this today if it's so
2:03:36bizarre?
2:03:39Well, what do you mean? We we didn't go
2:03:41through with this. I mean, you you had
2:03:43your
2:04:04I mean, you all spent an awful lot of
2:04:06time and effort on something that was
2:04:10doesn't make any sense.
2:04:17All right.
2:04:21Well, you've talked to me about it. You
2:04:24talked to them about it. You told me you
2:04:26agreed to meet with them. You met You
2:04:29told me that you you agreed to meet with
2:04:31them. You told me that the conversation
2:04:33was over the murder, although it didn't
2:04:37make sense to you and didn't
2:04:41all over getting paid for a a van. You
2:04:43were going to pay in a with a van.
2:04:45>> Yeah. That's
2:04:46>> um you know,
2:04:48>> a van. That's
2:04:49>> You beat around the bush a lot. Uh
2:04:51>> I beat around the bush
2:04:52>> without telling
2:04:55why this bizarre meeting happened today.
2:04:58Uh, and we might never know what the
2:05:01real motive is, but it's okay.
2:05:03>> Well, it's a waste of all your time.
2:05:05>> Absolutely. But I am very glad and so is
2:05:07your brother that he is still alive and
2:05:10that you didn't meet the wrong person
2:05:12today. Um, because we would be in a
2:05:15different situation.
2:05:16>> Well, there I don't think there is a
2:05:19wrong I don't think there's anybody that
2:05:20would do it. So, that doesn't make I
2:05:23don't think it's the wrong person. It's
2:05:24just just it's just bizarre.
2:05:28Well, I think scheduling a meeting to
2:05:30have somebody killed
2:05:32for $100,000, a million dollars,
2:05:36or for $5 is wrong.
2:05:39>> Well, I don't think I
2:05:41>> You were coordinating it with people. I
2:05:45mean, what else how else did a day
2:05:47happen?
2:05:52Somebody came to us with this
2:05:54information
2:05:56and sure enough it was for real.
2:06:04Just as confuses you why he would want
2:06:06to do it. But well I mean there
2:06:13isn't I mean I say we he
2:06:17and I he's We very seldom see each
2:06:21other. We don't we in all these years
2:06:23we've never had any disagreements. I
2:06:25mean it's
2:06:29there isn't any reason
2:06:34>> which is bizarre to me.
2:06:40This whole thing is bizarre to me. I
2:06:42mean this is
2:06:46>> all right. I mean, somebody
2:06:50out of the blue. I mean, some I mean, I
2:06:52don't know. Like you say, if turns out
2:06:54to be to be a police officer, that's
2:06:58just doesn't make any
2:07:00>> Well, the evidence will show. There's
2:07:03plenty of evidence in the case. Um, we
2:07:06keep going in circles and and never
2:07:09really getting to where we need to get.
2:07:10You've told us enough. Um,
2:07:14u So, we're going to end up going to the
2:07:15jail. I don't think we really have much
2:07:17more to ask because they're not going to
2:07:20talk anymore about it and just keep
2:07:22saying the same stuff over and over.
2:07:24>> And um
2:07:26>> so I'm being arrested for
2:07:28>> Yes. Yes, ma'am. Solicitation to commit
2:07:31first-degree murder.
2:07:34What happened in the car today is the
2:07:36reason why you're being charged. Okay.
2:07:38>> All right. and
2:07:40you know,
2:07:43so um
2:07:46it's unfortunate, but I'm very glad that
2:07:48your brother is still alive.
2:07:50>> Well, there wasn't any question that my
2:07:52brother's not going is going to be
2:07:54alive.
2:07:55>> Oh, you're just lucky that the guy that
2:07:57you were in the car with wasn't a legit
2:07:59criminal that needed something
2:08:03and
2:08:06the right thing happened. justice was
2:08:08served today.
2:08:09>> The whole thing is just just ridiculous.
2:08:12>> Oh, well, you shouldn't have you
2:08:14shouldn't have asked for help to get rid
2:08:15of your brother or we wouldn't be in
2:08:17this situation
2:08:19and that's the wrong thing to do. Yes or
2:08:22no?
2:08:24What do you think?
2:08:25>> Well, yeah. I don't think
2:08:29what
2:08:29>> I'm here to ask is like, well, what was
2:08:31it? What happened?
2:08:39All right, I'll go get the deputy.
2:08:42>> Okay.
2:08:44>> You have anything else to say?
2:08:46>> Well, I can say that I would
2:08:50I've got neuropathy and I cannot be in
2:08:53the cold and the jail is absolutely
2:08:55cold. I will not survive this. So,
2:08:59that's
2:09:00>> okay. We can let the jail staff know.
2:09:03All right.
2:09:05Can't just let you go home.
2:09:07>> But you could.
2:09:08>> I can't. You just solicitated to have
2:09:10your brother murdered and your brother
2:09:11lives there.
2:09:16Think it would be right to just drop you
2:09:17off at the house.
2:09:19>> If your brother did what you did today,
2:09:21would you want him in jail?
2:09:23>> Would I want my brother in jail?
2:09:26>> No. What
2:09:27>> if he met somebody today out at the road
2:09:30and talked about having you murdered?
2:09:35>> What would you want to happen to him?
2:09:40>> Well, I don't think he wouldn't do it.
2:09:42>> He wouldn't do it?
2:09:43>> Yeah.
2:09:44>> But if he if he did what if he did what
2:09:49you did today, what would you want to
2:09:51happen to him?
2:09:53>> I didn't do anything today.
2:09:55>> If he
2:09:57Okay.
2:10:04All right.
2:10:06Definitely will be in here in a second.
2:10:07Thank you.
2:10:47Elise.
2:10:47>> Yes.
2:10:50>> Um,
2:10:52>> I want to be totally honest with you. My
2:10:54my patience is probably too thin for us
2:10:56to keep talking. Uh, because I think we
2:10:58wasted a lot of time here tonight. We
2:10:59both know the truth. Just we're just not
2:11:01going to admit it. That's okay. Um,
2:11:05I still get paid the same at Canada
2:11:06today. I still have a judge's signature
2:11:09on an arrest warrant for your arrest.
2:11:12Um, so I'm going to leave you with this
2:11:15and if you tell me you want to finish
2:11:17talking about this, I'll sit here and
2:11:19and give you that honor for a few
2:11:20minutes. Otherwise, we're going to go
2:11:21ahead and walk you out of here. Okay.
2:11:23Um,
2:11:25we've discussed a lot tonight the charge
2:11:27that is on this warrant solicitation to
2:11:29commit murder. Okay. And um as we've
2:11:33explained to you,
2:11:38the facts and circumstances that are in
2:11:40the affidavit for the warrant, basically
2:11:43the the information that we gave the
2:11:45judge that allowed the judge to sign
2:11:47this warrant is from what we have to go
2:11:50off of today. Yeah.
2:11:51>> Okay. Meaning the video of you in the
2:11:53car, right? You understand that video
2:11:54you in the car talking about it. That's
2:11:56what kind of that that outlines
2:11:58everything as to why we have this crime.
2:12:00Do you understand that?
2:12:01>> Well, there hasn't been any crime.
2:12:03Nothing's happened.
2:12:05>> Well, a judge a judge wouldn't have
2:12:06signed this. So, here here I'm I'm I'm
2:12:10It's late. You said earlier it's past
2:12:13your bedtime.
2:12:14>> Um I'm not going to make you sit here
2:12:15and keep saying words that are
2:12:17meaningless to me. So, the words bizarre
2:12:20and doesn't make sense. I think you've
2:12:22probably said it about 150 times
2:12:23tonight. Um I realize that this is still
2:12:26you're in a state of shock right now.
2:12:28And so here's what I'm going to leave
2:12:29you with, okay? And I'm just speaking
2:12:31factually here.
2:12:34You are being charged with solicitation
2:12:36and commit first-degree murder because
2:12:37of everything that happened today. The
2:12:39only way that charge would go down and
2:12:42potentially have any outcome on the
2:12:44effect, you know, on what happens as
2:12:46this goes on through the court system
2:12:47and all of that is if you give us
2:12:49something else to go off of. And I'm not
2:12:50telling you that you can change this
2:12:53right now. We're right here. Okay? This
2:12:56is done. It's signed by a judge. It does
2:12:57not change anything tonight. But as
2:13:00Sergeant Dowling and Dan and I all
2:13:03explain to you tonight, this is your one
2:13:06and only shot to tell us what happened
2:13:08because the video tells everything that
2:13:10we need to know. That video, you might
2:13:12as well not even show up for court for
2:13:14your trial because the jury's going to
2:13:15watch that and it's very it's very
2:13:17damning. Okay. So again, the only the
2:13:20only way that you are going to get
2:13:22>> understanding that somebody
2:13:24says that he'll do it for a van that sat
2:13:28there for 3 years.
2:13:28>> It's ridiculous, isn't it?
2:13:30>> It's absolutely ridiculous,
2:13:31>> right? So here's the deal.
2:13:34Did you ever ask him not to do it?
2:13:37>> Not to do it. He wasn't ever going to do
2:13:39anything.
2:13:40>> Well, that's you just said that he was
2:13:42taking the van in exchange for doing
2:13:43what? It's ridiculous to consider
2:13:45murdering somebody in exchange for a
2:13:47$500 van, right? Well, that's
2:13:51>> Would you agree? I mean, that's
2:13:52>> of course it's ridiculous,
2:13:53>> right?
2:13:53>> It probably It's sat for 3 years. It's
2:13:56probably not even going to
2:13:57>> Agreed. Agreed. So, why didn't you say
2:14:01no? Why didn't you ask him not to do it?
2:14:04>> Not to do what?
2:14:05>> Not to murder your brother.
2:14:06>> He wasn't going to do it.
2:14:09>> That's where we disagree.
2:14:11>> You think?
2:14:13>> I know.
2:14:17He wasn't going to do it.
2:14:21>> I think this is really an unfortunate
2:14:23situation.
2:14:24>> Well,
2:14:25>> and I think that we're going to leave
2:14:26this room on on uncomfortable terms
2:14:28because I'm not happy with where we're
2:14:29ending up and and I don't think you're
2:14:31happy with where you're about to end up.
2:14:33>> Well, I know I'm not be not going to be
2:14:35happy because I've got neuropathy and
2:14:39>> you don't understand. No, I can't hardly
2:14:41sleep at night cuz because the pain is
2:14:44so bad.
2:14:45>> Well, and and now you add in the guilty
2:14:47conscience that I'm sure you're feeling
2:14:49deep inside. Whether you want to admit
2:14:50it here or not, I would imagine that
2:14:51probably does.
2:14:52>> I'm not feeling deep inside because I
2:14:55didn't do anything.
2:14:56>> Well, and again, that comes right back
2:14:58to where we were about 30 minutes ago
2:15:00when I was in here, where either you're
2:15:02going to be somebody that says, "Hey, I
2:15:03screwed up and I made a mistake." Or
2:15:05you're just going to be cold-hearted and
2:15:06you're going to act like this never
2:15:07happened and it's not going to phase
2:15:09you. And at the end of the day, I can
2:15:11tell you through all of my experience in
2:15:12law enforcement and the the two
2:15:14detectives that were just in here
2:15:15talking to you, through everybody's
2:15:17experience, we know what happened.
2:15:19That's indisputable at this point.
2:15:22>> You know, it's it might as well be like
2:15:23DNA. There's there's no way around it.
2:15:26Oh, I I
2:15:31>> So,
2:15:32>> if if that's where we're going to where
2:15:34we're going to leave it and and you want
2:15:35to walk out of this room in denial, I'm
2:15:36going to give you that opportunity to do
2:15:38it because you're going to have a lot of
2:15:39time to think about it where you're
2:15:40going.
2:15:41>> All right.
2:15:42>> There's nothing else that that nothing
2:15:43else you're going to do. So,
2:15:45>> well, like I say, I mean, I I will never
2:15:47hold back. If you explain a different
2:15:50way to look at this tonight, I'm going
2:15:52to document it. I'll write it down for
2:15:53the judge to read and if it makes more
2:15:55sense to everybody else, you know, back
2:15:58when your brother hurt you and all that.
2:16:00>> My brother never hurt me.
2:16:01>> Well, emotionally, it sounds like
2:16:03there's some some history there.
2:16:06You know what I mean? Like there there's
2:16:08some kind of dynamic here that I don't
2:16:10understand because let's be real, you
2:16:12met me a few hours ago, right? So, I've
2:16:15gotten to know you for a few hours of
2:16:17your life when you've got 81 years of
2:16:19life ahead of me today. Okay. I I don't
2:16:23know what you've been through and that's
2:16:25what I'd like to find out. What led to
2:16:27where we are today where this got just
2:16:29so bad that you felt this had to happen.
2:16:32>> What? That's ridiculous. Things never
2:16:35That's that word that I told you. We're
2:16:37going to avoid the words ridiculous and
2:16:38bizarre. I'm sorry. It's been too much.
2:16:40>> Okay. My brother has his own life. I
2:16:44very seldom, you know, he sleeps most
2:16:47during the day. I'm busy during the day.
2:16:51some it's just very unusual that he was
2:16:53up tonight. I very
2:16:55>> When
2:16:56>> so what
2:16:57>> when you called Michael I think uh maybe
2:17:00yesterday or the day before within the
2:17:02last couple days and you told him you
2:17:04asked if he still had if he was still
2:17:06taking his psychotic medication, right?
2:17:10>> No,
2:17:11>> you don't remember that.
2:17:12>> But Michael's taking his psychotic
2:17:14medication.
2:17:14>> You asked that because then you asked if
2:17:17you could crush it up and put it in the
2:17:18pancakes.
2:17:19>> What? You don't remember that?
2:17:21>> Crush it up and put it in the
2:17:23>> psychotic medicine.
2:17:25>> Mhm.
2:17:26>> You remember that?
2:17:29>> I did not know he takes any psychotic
2:17:31medication. You talk about Michael.
2:17:34>> That's what you said.
2:17:35>> I said
2:17:36>> yes, ma'am.
2:17:40>> That doesn't I've never heard of him
2:17:43taking any
2:17:44>> Okay. He takes medic he takes
2:17:46medication, but I never heard of him
2:17:48taking.
2:17:49>> What does he take medication for? Maybe
2:17:50maybe I just misunderstood.
2:17:52>> Well, because he's
2:17:55he's been beat up a lot. He's got a lot
2:17:57of a lot of physical problems. He does
2:18:00>> sure
2:18:01>> take medications. He was saying he
2:18:03didn't have money to get it or
2:18:05something. I don't know.
2:18:06>> Yeah.
2:18:12Why wasn't smothering uh your brother
2:18:15the first choice?
2:18:16>> What?
2:18:16>> Well, earlier you said that that we
2:18:18could, you know, you would have him
2:18:20smothered.
2:18:21>> So, I would
2:18:22>> Yeah. When you were talking to Mike in
2:18:24the car and you said, "I don't I don't
2:18:27care how you do it." Smother, you talked
2:18:30about using a telephone cord.
2:18:31>> Yeah. That's
2:18:34>> I mean, that was pretty out there,
2:18:35wasn't it? Yeah,
2:18:36>> I know that's not what that wouldn't
2:18:37have aligned with what you wanted
2:18:38because I know you don't
2:18:40>> you never wanted to to hurt your
2:18:41brother. I I don't think I think that
2:18:43like you said he's living a miserable
2:18:45life and
2:18:45>> Oh, that's I mean
2:18:46>> and that's your opinion.
2:18:48>> But but he's living a miserable life. I
2:18:50mean, even John said the same thing. He
2:18:51lives a miserable life, right?
2:18:53>> Oh,
2:18:54>> we talked to him. Yeah.
2:18:55>> Well, I don't think my brother said he
2:18:57lives a miserable life.
2:18:58>> Well, naturally, but you see from the
2:19:01outside looking in, he's living a
2:19:02miserable life. He's probably bringing
2:19:04everybody down around him. I mean,
2:19:05shoot, he sleeps half the day away every
2:19:07day, right?
2:19:08>> And you strike me as the early to bed,
2:19:10early to rise kind of person, right? So,
2:19:12I mean, I know it would frustrate me if
2:19:14I saw somebody basically just being in a
2:19:16dead beat, you know, just sleeping their
2:19:17life away.
2:19:18>> Well, that's his
2:19:22>> and then that's his life to live. But
2:19:25that's it all comes back to this. You
2:19:27know, murder is this big scary
2:19:29>> Why would I
2:19:30>> murder is this big scary word, right? It
2:19:33sounds horrible. All right. But at least
2:19:36in my mind, there's a difference between
2:19:39going and blowing somebody's brains out
2:19:42versus taking them out of their misery
2:19:44with insulin. Insulin, they don't feel
2:19:46anything. And I know that's probably why
2:19:48that came to mind, cuz you don't strike
2:19:50me as the type that would have wanted to
2:19:51cause pain and torture.
2:19:53>> Well, of course not. And
2:19:58>> I mean, the whole I mean, I just can't
2:20:00believe that you all think that
2:20:02something was going to happen. I mean,
2:20:04That's that's why Sergeant Don talked
2:20:06about this. We know nothing was going to
2:20:09happen. And it's just fantasy talk
2:20:12really is what it comes down to. And but
2:20:16do you understand what what I mean when
2:20:18I say it's a difference if it's a a
2:20:19fantasy of wanting to use insulin so
2:20:22somebody passes away peacefully versus a
2:20:24fantasy of wanting to go violently
2:20:27murder somebody. Do you do you
2:20:28understand what I mean by that? It it's
2:20:30different the way that it appears.
2:20:31>> Yeah. But it's I mean the whole thing is
2:20:33just
2:20:36why would I want to?
2:20:37>> Well, that's you know we've been over
2:20:39those reasons and at the end of the day
2:20:42I we don't have to prove your motive for
2:20:44anything. It's you had a conversation
2:20:47about it today with Mike in the car on
2:20:50video.
2:20:52Okay. And that's it's written on a hard
2:20:54drive. It's already it's already put in
2:20:56the evidence system. Okay. And again,
2:21:00that's we're I'm about to tell this
2:21:02deputy to put you in handcuffs and walk
2:21:03you out of here if we're not going to
2:21:05get anywhere with it.
2:21:06>> Well, what what do you want me to do?
2:21:08>> I just want you to be honest with me,
2:21:09Miss Land.
2:21:11>> Say that I thought it would really
2:21:13happen. No, I didn't think
2:21:14>> Well, no. I I don't I don't need you to
2:21:15say that.
2:21:16>> That's what I'm saying. If it's if it
2:21:18was just a fantasy, I fine. I'll listen
2:21:20to you explain that.
2:21:23>> I I will listen to you all life. You
2:21:25want to sit here and explain to me how
2:21:26this fantasy goes if you didn't think it
2:21:28was ever going to happen. That makes me
2:21:29feel a lot better.
2:21:30>> Of course, it wasn't going to happen. I
2:21:32mean,
2:21:32>> so walk me through it. If it's just a
2:21:34fantasy, what what made you what made
2:21:36you start to think about that stuff?
2:21:38What pushed you to the point where you
2:21:40felt like talking to Michael was a good
2:21:42idea about it?
2:21:46Just be honest with me, please.
2:21:55How did we get to where we are right
2:21:56now?
2:21:57>> Yeah, that's
2:22:01>> Did you just wake up one day and it just
2:22:03po was it a dream that just popped into
2:22:05your mind?
2:22:06>> No, I never.
2:22:07>> Was there an argument that led up to it?
2:22:09>> My brother and I have never had an
2:22:10argument.
2:22:11>> Okay.
2:22:12>> Like I say, I very seldom see him.
2:22:14>> Mhm. Cuz he sleeps a lot.
2:22:16>> Yeah.
2:22:17>> Right.
2:22:19So, was this just a
2:22:22how did how did we arrive at this? If if
2:22:24you there there's a a
2:22:28deductive reasoning here, right? So,
2:22:31either you wanted the plot to actually
2:22:33have your brother killed
2:22:35>> or this is just some silly thought that
2:22:37probably got probably got blown out of
2:22:39proportion. Silly in the sense that you
2:22:40didn't want it to happen.
2:22:41>> Of course. I mean,
2:22:44>> and do you understand what I'm saying?
2:22:45We we can agree that it's just a silly
2:22:47thought. And do you understand what I
2:22:49mean when I say the headline on
2:22:52woman wants to have her brother murdered
2:22:55is a little bit different than woman has
2:22:58crazy fantasy and everybody's going to
2:22:59say, "Oh, wow. That's wild." And they're
2:23:01going to move on and forget about it,
2:23:03right?
2:23:06Do you get what I'm saying with that?
2:23:08I'm I'm trying to spare you of the
2:23:10public shame that this would bring if it
2:23:12without you giving me anything else to
2:23:15to understand. All that we have to go
2:23:18off of to share with the public because,
2:23:19you know, we're we're a government
2:23:21agency. We have to there has to be
2:23:23public record here.
2:23:25>> All that we have to go off of here is is
2:23:27what's written in the warrant. And
2:23:29that's pretty graphic stuff. I think
2:23:31it's that you sent somebody out to
2:23:35to actually make it look like this was
2:23:38was going to happen when nothing was.
2:23:39>> Think about it this way. We sent
2:23:41somebody out to find out if you were
2:23:42actually wanting this done or if this
2:23:44was just a fantasy,
2:23:46>> right?
2:23:47>> Well, I wouldn't call it a fantasy.
2:23:49>> Well, figment of the imagination, all
2:23:51talk. Whatever you want to call it is
2:23:53fine. I'll call it whatever you want me
2:23:54to call it.
2:23:56But we can agree that you didn't want it
2:23:58to actually happen. Well, nothing was
2:24:00going on.
2:24:00>> It was just it was just small talk about
2:24:02it,
2:24:03>> right? That's all it was.
2:24:06>> Yeah.
2:24:07>> But I mean, what
2:24:12>> were you uncomfortable talking to Mike
2:24:14in the car today
2:24:16about this stuff?
2:24:18>> Well,
2:24:21I don't know about being just the whole
2:24:23thing. It just seemed to be ridiculous.
2:24:25>> Kind of surreal.
2:24:26>> Yeah.
2:24:26>> Yeah. I mean that's once you when you
2:24:29think about something for so long
2:24:30leading up to because I we know this has
2:24:32been a discussion for close to a year
2:24:35before it got to this point and it
2:24:37sounds like just recently is when you
2:24:39really started thinking about it more
2:24:40and more but after you think about it
2:24:42for so long it consumes the mind and you
2:24:44think about it for so long and now when
2:24:46you're actually sitting face to face
2:24:48with somebody who I mean yeah I know it
2:24:50kind of sucks he was actually a cop but
2:24:53>> well he he but he came there to talk to
2:24:55you about this and at least At least in
2:24:57that moment you thought you were talking
2:24:58to somebody that was actually hit.
2:25:00>> Well, except that that was so
2:25:02ridiculous.
2:25:02>> I know. But in that moment, you didn't
2:25:04>> Oh, I
2:25:12threw you for a loop there, didn't it?
2:25:14Did it have you wondering?
2:25:16>> Well, the whole thing, nothing made any
2:25:18sense.
2:25:19>> Well, I know. I mean, it made perfect
2:25:20sense when we listened to it
2:25:23as this was unfolding. I mean, it's you
2:25:26you asked him for a service and to pay
2:25:28him for the service, it was the car, but
2:25:30you knew in your mind that he didn't
2:25:31want that damn car. That man's in
2:25:33terrible shape, right?
2:25:36>> I mean, it's
2:25:37>> So, that's what I'm saying.
2:25:38>> It hasn't been driven in 3 years,
2:25:39>> right? So, you knew that it wasn't
2:25:41realistic for him to It's just a car.
2:25:43Yeah.
2:25:44>> Right. And he's and and what y'all
2:25:45talked about, what you asked him for
2:25:46something that gosh, if you go ask some
2:25:49random person to do it, they're going to
2:25:50either think you're crazy or, you know,
2:25:53go to prison for it, right? So you you
2:25:55knew that it wasn't going to happen.
2:25:56>> No.
2:25:57>> It was just a talk.
2:25:59>> That's what I'm saying. Let's let's
2:26:01chalk it up to what it is instead of
2:26:03beating around the bush. We can't change
2:26:04it. It's written on the paper here. All
2:26:05you can change is how I feel about you
2:26:06when you walk out of this room. And I'd
2:26:09like to have respect for you when you
2:26:10leave here. I'll always respect you.
2:26:11When we talk, I'd be respectful. But do
2:26:14you understand what I'm saying?
2:26:17Just lay it out for me. That's we're
2:26:19we're past it. It's fine. I just want to
2:26:21talk about it. You didn't think it was
2:26:23going to happen.
2:26:24>> Well, I mean, the whole
2:26:25>> Today was probably was Was today getting
2:26:27a year's worth of emotion off your chest
2:26:29more than anything when you talked to
2:26:30him in the car?
2:26:32>> No, it was I mean
2:26:36I don't have any problem with my
2:26:38brother. I don't even I don't know what
2:26:40>> Well, but that's that's where I'm not
2:26:43understanding why we got to this point.
2:26:44>> Yeah, I don't either.
2:26:46>> You don't understand it?
2:26:47>> No.
2:26:47>> No. Okay.
2:26:51If I can be honest with you, I think
2:26:52what's really got you bothered right now
2:26:54is the fact that somebody you trusted
2:26:58turned against you.
2:27:01I think that's what really has you
2:27:02bothered right now and caught off guard.
2:27:05Because I think out of all people in
2:27:06this world, you never thought that
2:27:07Michael would would turn against you.
2:27:10>> Well,
2:27:12I mean, I don't
2:27:14say the way the world is. I'm not
2:27:19>> I mean, I don't think I mean I guess
2:27:22that's who he is. I don't know.
2:27:26>> Do you think he did the right thing,
2:27:28>> Michael?
2:27:29>> Mhm.
2:27:31I don't think it I don't think it was
2:27:33this was he
2:27:35why in the world was he pursuing all
2:27:37this if it wasn't
2:27:39>> if it wasn't what
2:27:42>> I mean this is did Michael think this
2:27:44was just a big joke or what? No, man.
2:27:46That's that's that's how we ended up
2:27:48here. Because here's the thing, like I
2:27:51told you before, Michael might have a
2:27:52past, but he also has a conscience. And
2:27:55>> was
2:27:57when Michael got hemmed up before, it
2:27:59wasn't for killing somebody.
2:28:01>> Pardon?
2:28:01>> It wasn't for killing somebody when he
2:28:03got hemmed up before. And when you came
2:28:05to him, you know, imagine how Michael
2:28:07felt because he respects you. He he
2:28:10wants to help you.
2:28:12But at the same time, Michael knew that
2:28:15he as a person was not capable of doing
2:28:17what you had asked him to do.
2:28:20You know, I it tore him up a bit when
2:28:22when you started talking to him about
2:28:24this and he thought for a while he
2:28:25thought maybe you weren't serious. And
2:28:27even now, you know, he says maybe it's
2:28:29still a fantasy. But either way, you
2:28:31know, you said things to Michael that
2:28:32were concerning to him, right? And
2:28:35that's why the individual that went out
2:28:37today, Mike, that
2:28:39was actually a police officer. to the
2:28:42mic. So,
2:28:43>> right, that's that's why he went out and
2:28:45asked you some of those questions and
2:28:46y'all had those conversations in the car
2:28:48earlier. And so, don't you realize that
2:28:52that kind of adds merit to Michael's
2:28:54statement when Michael says, "Hey, this
2:28:57is this is concerning."
2:29:00You know, you you talked to him on the
2:29:02phone just this past week about how to
2:29:04make it look natural and like an
2:29:06accident. I heard that conversation.
2:29:09That's why the insulin is being used.
2:29:11And again, in that moment and the way
2:29:13that this is all written, it's yeah,
2:29:16you're trying to basically stage a
2:29:18murder so that it looks like it's
2:29:19natural with insulin. And the way that
2:29:22I'm seeing this right now is that
2:29:23insulin is your your choice because you
2:29:26want it to be peaceful. You don't want
2:29:28your brother to suffer. And even if
2:29:30that's all just some far out dream
2:29:31that's never going to happen, you know
2:29:33it's never going to happen. That's all
2:29:34I'm trying to get you to talk to me
2:29:36about today.
2:29:37I mean, I I want to know why why insulin
2:29:39is your is what you chose.
2:29:41>> Well, I don't
2:29:42>> Have you ever done this before?
2:29:44>> Of course not. And I don't I mean, I
2:29:46don't
2:29:48I don't actually remember talking about
2:29:51insulin. I really don't.
2:29:52>> Oh, come on now. Sure you do. That's
2:29:54been Insulin's been the one topic for
2:29:56the last year up until today when you
2:29:58said have him smother. Insulin is what
2:30:01you'd always chosen.
2:30:04>> I know.
2:30:06I don't I honestly don't remember
2:30:09talking about insulin, talking about
2:30:10anything. I really don't.
2:30:14>> Yeah. Well,
2:30:16you never injected anybody else with
2:30:18anything in your life?
2:30:20>> No.
2:30:20>> No. To try and put somebody out of their
2:30:22misery?
2:30:37This I mean this whole thing just seems
2:30:40really bizarre.
2:30:41>> Yeah. All right. Well, go ahead and
2:30:43stand up for me.
2:30:50>> But honestly, I'm
2:30:55I cannot
2:30:57This is going to be
2:30:59>> like this. Wait. Pardon?
2:31:02me. Okay.
2:31:04>> Come here.
2:31:06We're not behind your back.
2:31:10>> See, I do have neuropathy. Every night I
2:31:13have a terrible
2:31:14>> We'll make sure that we inform the jail
2:31:15staff. Okay. It's
2:31:16>> not doing anything. I don't know.
2:31:28Amen.
2:31:46Beautiful.

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