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Exonerated: Kirk Bloodsworth, James Bain, Anthony Porter, and Alstory Simon — Transcript

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0:21subject is approached to lightheartedly
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0:57[Music]
1:33hello and thank you for checking out
1:35murder dictionary podcast my name is
1:38Breanna and with me is Kelly hey before
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2:04Brendan Dassey like so much so I've been
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2:41bathroom or a good time listen to murder
2:47dictionary podcast alright so today
2:52we're going to be talking about
2:54exonerations I feel like this is a
2:57subject where most of the time I'm
2:59getting really upset about lenient
3:02sentencing you know just like all crimes
3:04against women or crimes committed by
3:05white people or they just get off so
3:07easily
3:07but this one is equally as compelling to
3:10me just because it's so tragic every
3:13story is just years and years of
3:16people's lives just gone yeah and it
3:19just feels like um there's that
3:21nightmare I don't know how many people
3:23have it I think it's pretty common of
3:25just being in the middle of a surgery
3:28and waking up from anesthesia that's
3:30what this reminds me of and I know I
3:32mean personally I've had a lot of
3:34medical stuff so that's more personal
3:36for me but that's what it feels like is
3:38you're just trapped in in this situation
3:41and there's nothing you can do
3:43just hopelessness so anyway so this
3:46subject is really compelling and tragic
3:48and so instead of talking about the
3:51psychology like I usually like to start
3:53off with I actually found some
3:56statistics that I found are really
3:58really horrific and jaw-dropping so I
4:01wanted to share those with you guys so
4:03approximately 4% of those sentenced to
4:06be executed are innocents or percent yes
4:10for that yeah
4:13an astounding 125 exonerations were
4:18recorded in 2014 alone yeah well no
4:23that's I mean actually not too many
4:25that's I mean it's too many for it to be
4:27happening but yeah good that there was
4:29at least a high it's better than zero
4:30right yeah I mean I'm I'm glad that
4:33there's people that are being exonerated
4:35but it's also just like how are we
4:37getting this so wrong yes there's got to
4:39be something wrong with the criminal
4:41justice system absolutely
4:43so there is an exoneration every three
4:45days in this country as of 2015 one
4:49thousand five hundred and seventy nine
4:52people had been exonerated since 1989
4:55and that's according to the National
4:57Registry of exonerations 70% of
5:01exonerees are minorities 47% alone are
5:05African American and 99 percent are
5:08males what that [ __ ] tell you about
5:09our country right that just speaks
5:11volumes and just horrific when of course
5:15discussing exonerations you have to get
5:18into the Innocence Project they have
5:20just done so much work to get wrongfully
5:23imprisoned people freed they also need
5:25to be discussed because they have the
5:27most information statistics studies
5:30about the subject the work that they do
5:33is just so important so they were
5:34founded in 1992 by Barry Scheck and
5:38Peter new fields and since then they
5:41have freed 347 people 347 of the 1579
5:47array that have been exonerated from
5:491989 is a great number yeah I think so
5:52absolutely they're amazing so according
5:55to that
5:56the innocent project the average amount
5:58of time served was 14 years
6:01what yes oh my god yeah I'm gonna pass
6:08out the years served by the Innocence
6:12Project exonerees alone totaled
6:15approximately four thousand seven
6:17hundred and fifty as of 2015
6:20how much money that cost the state -
6:22yeah yeah it's the trade all the
6:26implications as far as on our our taxes
6:29and state funding but also I mean it's
6:34the years of their lives that's the most
6:38important part it's what their life has
6:41taken away but but it is so like even
6:44for the people that don't give a [ __ ]
6:46about the victims of these wrongful
6:50convictions even though it's like I'm
6:52just envisioning super super
6:54conservative people but I don't know
6:58maybe that's biased but people that are
7:00have a bias towards these minorities and
7:03wrongfully convicted people I feel like
7:06they could get behind that I'm just like
7:07it still impacts the state even if it's
7:11you don't care about their lives it
7:13still impacts us so the Innocence
7:16Project has also identified the real
7:19killers in 147 of those 347 cases Adam
7:24yes I love the work they do that's just
7:28amazing to me the Innocence Project has
7:31had to close 22 percent of their cases
7:33because DNA evidence was missing or had
7:37been destroyed mistress so they starts
7:40working on these cases and 22 percent of
7:43them you can't do anything because they
7:47got rid of the evidence like I just oh
7:49my god that fix it you can't prove
7:52anything you bring anything back up it's
7:54basically their conviction is their
7:56conviction you can appeal as many times
7:58as you want yeah there's just nothing
8:00you can do we lost the DNA right just oh
8:03my god oh you don't care I think it's
8:06just carelessness like oh we got in
8:08there in jail who
8:09cares I'm destroying this evidence
8:11anymore right like we got what we wanted
8:14so [ __ ] you about 3,000 prisoners write
8:18to the Innocence Project each year and
8:20at any given time the Innocence Project
8:22is evaluating 6,000 to 8,000 potential
8:26cases there are many reasons why
8:29wrongful convictions occur the most
8:32common reason is false eyewitness
8:34identification and the innocence
8:36projects studies eyewitness testimony
8:39played a role in more than 75% of
8:42wrongful convictions statistics are so
8:45high it's just oh like what a [ __ ]
8:49terrible not a good successful like a
8:51success rate yeah obviously we're doing
8:53something wrong and it again just a lot
8:56of it just speaks to racism it's just so
8:59much of it unreliable or improper
9:02forensic science played a role in about
9:0450% of Innocence Project cases
9:08scientific techniques such as bite mark
9:10comparison and fiber analysis were
9:13widely used but are now sought to be
9:15more subjective
9:17yeah like even back in the day to when
9:18they were using pubic hair like this is
9:20a black man's pubic hair that's so many
9:22times in cases and like now they have
9:25mitochondrial DNA that you write the
9:28pubic hairs but instead of mr. Brandon
9:30person looking at it this is a curly
9:32hair [ __ ] you dude yeah that's what has
9:37gotten people convicted right it's
9:39unbelievable and there's those people
9:42that like even with DNA - like that one
9:44lady that got caught wouldn't she
9:47tampered with like 50,000 cases she was
9:49a DNA and I remember that yeah and then
9:52the DNA analyst and she had tampered and
9:54destroyed and ruined and so many cases
9:58yes and now she's now they're all
9:59getting I hope new trials
10:01I hope so they're better in about 25% of
10:05DNA exoneration cases innocent people
10:07were coerced or threatened in the making
10:10incriminating statements or false
10:12confessions approximately 10% of the
10:15innocence projects DNA exoneration cases
10:18had pled guilty to crimes that they
10:20didn't commit
10:21often with the promise
10:23of reducing their sentence or even
10:25avoiding the death penalty [ __ ] trap
10:27it's just so common it's so unbelievably
10:31common that they get these people in
10:33rooms and just badger them and bully
10:35them into saying that they did something
10:38that they didn't do it's unbeliev and
10:40you're in rooms for hours and hours and
10:43days sometimes it goes through to two or
10:46three days and you also see what you saw
10:49kind of in you know the good example of
10:51that is making a murderer with Brendan
10:53Dassey again it's just you saw them
10:57telling him he could go home yeah and
10:59that's what they do they say that they
11:01and I know that it it takes a certain
11:05intelligence level to believe that and I
11:09feel bad saying that but it's just like
11:11you shouldn't believe that if you're a
11:13smart person you'd know that that's not
11:14the case but there's so many times that
11:16they're playing on the fact or relying
11:19on the fact that someone is going to be
11:20uneducated poor yeah impoverished you
11:25know just not know any better and just
11:27be unfortunately I hate to say it but
11:31too dumb to know that they're lying and
11:33I didn't I mean if they had the evidence
11:35they wouldn't be asking any questions
11:37right but if you ever get questioned by
11:39the cops am I being charged and with
11:41what charges if not I'm out yeah yeah I
11:44don't care how that looks I you know
11:46yeah now I know that not being younger I
11:49would raise well I'm just gonna tell the
11:50cops because I think there's just a
11:53certain amount of deductive reasoning
11:54that you develop over time or that you
11:57have from a young age that the people
11:59that are maybe a little bit slower that
12:01are oftentimes being caught up in these
12:03situations are they just don't have it I
12:07just feel bad saying that that's a part
12:10of it but really it is you know so we're
12:13going to start off with the first person
12:15to be exonerated Kirk Bloodsworth and he
12:18was the first man who was on actually
12:21death row but he was freed because of
12:24DNA evidence all right so on July 25th
12:281984 two young boys are fishing in a
12:31small pond behind an apartment complex
12:32when they witnessed nine-year-old dawn
12:34Hamilton walk off into the woods with a
12:36man
12:37described as skinny six-foot-five with a
12:39bushy mustache and blonde hair they were
12:42the last people to see her alive
12:44hours later Dawn's body was found lying
12:46face down in the woods the next day and
12:48the autopsy found that the manner of
12:50death was strangulation and blunt force
12:51trauma to the head and one of the really
12:54awful things that I saw about this case
12:57and it's just I'm just a visual person
12:59so when I read things I just I see it or
13:02like I relate it to something and I read
13:06that when they found her she had one of
13:09those like little girl purses hmm and it
13:12was found with her body that's just and
13:15she was still wearing it like she had
13:17one of those little like Barbie purses
13:19or whatever and yeah just the visual of
13:23that and it's just so tragic I just
13:26decide I'm gonna hang out on the edge of
13:29the woods and just make stop everyday
13:31you shall not pass
13:34especially if you have a kid definitely
13:38I'm only stop if you're with a kid or a
13:40woman just no no you're getting [ __ ]
13:42I'm gonna be a detective right where are
13:45you going at the time of the murder
13:48former Marine Kirk Bloodsworth did not
13:51live in the area he was not six foot
13:53five skinny nor was he blond with the
13:55bushy mustache
13:56he was six-foot brawny redhead with
13:59mutton-chop sideburns who had worn
14:01glasses since age five arrested within
14:03three weeks of the murder Kirk
14:04maintained his innocence from day one
14:06assuming somehow some way the police
14:09would realize they had the wrong man in
14:10the nightmare would end I just can't
14:12believe his description was so different
14:15it's just crazy
14:17doesn't everyone look the same in like
14:18the late 70s moustaches bushy something
14:23Bush is definitely in every person's
14:25rage like they could be in Led Zeppelin
14:28yes or Jimi Hendrix Experience you
14:31either had afro or long hair that there
14:33was were there two types of people
14:35nothing else but you definitely had a
14:36mustache some facial facial hair he
14:40witnesses who the place in my home at
14:41the time of the murder and there was no
14:43physical evidence that linked Kirk to
14:45the crime scene despite all of this Kirk
14:47was ultimately convicted by his slim
14:50once to a campos it drawing based on
14:52eyewitness testimony of the young two
14:54boys and the eyewitness identification
14:56of three others one of which identified
14:58Kirk after seeing him on the news
15:00that's just terrible [ __ ] just by like
15:04I mean dude you just need to get like
15:05six people that all [ __ ] hate you and
15:08then just write you out and be like oh
15:09she definitely did it I was there ya
15:11know like okay Bloodsworth was
15:14ultimately found guilty but the Maryland
15:17Court of Appeals overturned Bloodsworth
15:18conviction in 1986 after finding that
15:21the prosecution had illegally withheld
15:23potentially exculpatory evidence from
15:26the defense however Bloodsworth was
15:28retried convicted again and sent to two
15:31life terms so you too [ __ ] up defense
15:35in the beginning basically right yeah I
15:38don't know if it's definitely the it's
15:41the prosecution I'm sorry yeah I had
15:43withheld information and then you get
15:45retried you get a mistrial or whatever
15:47you get a new trial and then they can
15:49thank you again yeah it's awful that he
15:52was convicted again but the only good
15:54thing was that it was reduced from the
15:57death penalty to two to life yeah
15:59initially so I mean at least he would I
16:02mean who knows he could have been killed
16:04if the DNA evidence had not been found
16:06he would have been killed
16:08Wow it's just yet awful so even though
16:11appeals are made the conviction and
16:12sentence was not overturn it I feel like
16:14that's like winning a million dollars at
16:16the lottery and then they're like psych
16:18like the fake scratchers with like
16:20$10,000 yeah like I'm out I'm free and
16:24then nope so in 1992 Bloodsworth read an
16:27account of how the new technology of DNA
16:29fingerprinting had led to a conviction
16:31of a murder suspect hoping to prove his
16:34innocence he pushed to have the evidence
16:35against him tested by the then novel
16:38method initially available evidence in
16:41the case
16:42Oh initially the available evidence in
16:44the case traces of semen in the victims
16:45underwear was thought to have been
16:47destroyed however it was eventually
16:49located in a paper bag in the judge's
16:51chambers why yeah well I don't isn't
16:54this was being an evidence room yeah
16:55that's just really suspect was he
16:57sniffing him
16:59like so he gets ready just let me go to
17:03this trial testing proved that the semen
17:06did not match Bloodsworth DNA profile in
17:091993 Bloodsworth was released by that
17:11time he had spent almost nine years in
17:13prison two of them on death row
17:15Bloodsworth was released on June 28th
17:181993 he was the first u.s. death row
17:21prisoner to be cleared by DNA in
17:23December 1994 Maryland governor William
17:26Donald Schaefer granted Bloodsworth a
17:28full pardon based on innocence which is
17:30good too because sometimes they make you
17:31plea you know like right you don't have
17:33that on your record or whatever yeah get
17:35out or that weird situation with the
17:38West Memphis Three yes that's exactly
17:40where they and but they they did it
17:42right and they they basically agreed
17:45that they were guilty it seems yeah it
17:47was a weird thing I don't remember the
17:49name for it but it was super super rare
17:52like the last case of it was something
17:53like a hundred years ago or something
17:55crazy so ridiculous but then some people
17:57have so much pride to where they're like
17:58they do that when I was take taking even
18:01in the West Memphis Three Damien Echols
18:03had said yeah he was like I didn't want
18:05to do this but because I think it was
18:07his my right no I think it was one of
18:10the other accused okay miss Kelly I
18:13think or one of the other ones
18:14he was like because there were two other
18:16people involved if it was just me I
18:18never would have said I'm gay
18:19yeah but because it's two other people
18:21and that's what they wanted of course I
18:24have to look out for their like yeah
18:25yeah okay so thanks to what was then a
18:40new technology called genetic
18:42fingerprinting Kirk Bloodsworth became
18:44the first death row and me exonerated by
18:46DNA since his exoneration in 1993 kyrgyz
18:50found his voice making it his life's
18:52mission to foster change in the criminal
18:54justice system especially regarding
18:55issues surrounding wrongful convictions
18:57and the death penalty
18:58he's become a vocal opponent of the
19:01death penalty speaking publicly the
19:02small groups and large audiences
19:04lobbying politicians and working with
19:06other activists to rehabilitate the
19:08penal system the pinnacle of his work to
19:11date came in 2004 when
19:13g-dub signing the law the Kirk noble
19:17Bloodsworth post-conviction DNA testing
19:19program which provides block grants to
19:21states to pay for m8 post-conviction DNA
19:23testing like I think all of that's
19:26positive but if I was Kirk I would just
19:29be like um can we get this associated
19:33with someone that's not George W Bush
19:34like really [ __ ] that guy yeah because
19:37he's been ok he's been part of the Texas
19:41death penalty issues like obviously his
19:43state was all about the death penalty
19:45and then you're coming to me and being
19:47like oh I'm gonna like do this
19:49initiative in your name that's against
19:52every one of my actions like you know
19:54his actions are not consistent with this
19:57this I don't remember who was the
19:59majority at the time was the house of
20:01the center oh yeah if it was Democrats
20:03and that makes more sentence and he just
20:05has to yeah which I mean I guess right
20:07yeah maybe you worst into it yeah he
20:10could have been like veto which or maybe
20:12he gave him a five dollar grant like
20:15here's ten bucks
20:16enjoy don't spend it all in one case and
20:22see what you did there in his home state
20:26of Maryland Kirk also played an integral
20:27part in the successful campaign to
20:29repeal the death penalty in 2003 nearly
20:32a decade after Bloodsworth release
20:34prisoner DNA evidence added to state and
20:37federal databases identified the real
20:38killer
20:39Kimberly Shay Ruffner and of course his
20:42name was Kimberly Kimberly it's like
20:44it's like a boy named Sue yeah a girl
20:48named Kelly I'm naming my son Brianna a
20:59month after the 1984 murder Ruffner had
21:03been sentenced to 45 years for an
21:04unrelated burglary attempted rape and
21:06assault with intent to murder he had in
21:10fact been incarcerated and I sell one
21:13floor below Bloodsworth cell yes it's
21:16crazy oh my god so Ruffner arrived in
21:20prison just a month after Bloodsworth
21:21and knew about Bloodsworth case the
21:24attempts to win a new trial and his
21:25of actual innocence he knew everything
21:27you never send me thanks but what a
21:30[ __ ] piece of [ __ ] yeah so off or
21:32maybe I mean I wonder if he knew the
21:33girls names but like dude if you killed
21:35know he knew everything okay you [ __ ]
21:39piece of [ __ ] yeah however Ruffner said
21:42nothing to leave Bloodsworth suspect
21:44that Ruffner had killed dawn Hamilton
21:45Bloodsworth learned the news from
21:47prosecutors shortly before Ruffner was
21:49formally charged with the crime on
21:51September 5th 2003 Kirk had said that he
21:55and Ruffner knew each other
21:56Bloodsworth was the prison librarian who
21:58would deliver books to Ruffner and they
22:00would sometimes even work out together
22:01yeah Bloodsworth was just like yeah he
22:04spotted me yeah I spotted him I mean he
22:06has said that in interviews like
22:08friendly oh my god yeah it wasn't just
22:12some guy that he had seen he really like
22:15worked out dude and the guy never said
22:19anything he's already in there for 45
22:22years
22:23yeah just see like it doesn't matter I
22:25don't know so in 2004 Kimberly Shay
22:28Ruffner who had a history of sexual
22:30attacks pled guilty to the murder of
22:32dawn Hamilton Ruffner was near Don
22:34Hamilton's apartment complex to smoke
22:36PCP he had just gotten out of jail days
22:39before after being acquitted after being
22:42acquitted on charges that he had
22:44sexually assaulted another girl Ruffner
22:46had also drank a fifth of rum before he
22:48saw the nine year olds girl the attack
22:50was not premeditated or planned he just
22:52happened to see the girl Ruffner was
22:55convicted of Dawn's murder in 2004 and
22:57will spend the rest of his life in jail
22:58at least he fessed up yeah I mean at
23:02least he's being held accountable for it
23:04it's not a waffle yeah yeah I just can't
23:06believe that he didn't say anything like
23:08of course I mean he's a murderer why
23:10would I think that he's an honest guy
23:12yes like yeah I'm gonna say something
23:13cuz it's the right thing to do like yeah
23:15of course she's a [ __ ] piece of [ __ ]
23:17here's my redeeming moment just oh my
23:21god right so moving on to the next case
23:24on June 4th 1994 19 year old JC Taylor
23:28was found dead in her bathtub in
23:31Palisades Colorado neighbors had
23:33discovered a leak in their apartment at
23:357:00 a.m. that morning
23:36upon entering Taylor's apartment two
23:39hours later they found her naked body in
23:41the bathtub and called the police
23:44according to the medical examiner who
23:46examined the body Taylor appeared to
23:49have been strangled by a nylon dog leash
23:51or horse lead and had been sexually
23:54assaulted shortly before her death
23:56police focused their investigation on
23:58Robert Dewey who was a 33 year old biker
24:00nicknamed rider
24:02Dewey was an addict who had been drawn
24:03to the neighborhood by the availability
24:05of meth in the area I mean that's a
24:08pretty bad neighborhood if they're just
24:09like oh that's where all the methods
24:12that's where I belong it's basically
24:14Simi Valley he was a bike rider that it
24:22was nicknamed Reiter that's like a
24:24Harley guy yeah yeah
24:26super simple writer you won't forget it
24:30the police and prosecutor began to build
24:33a circumstantial case against Robert
24:35Dewey he had initially emerged as a
24:37suspect in the case when police heard
24:40from several of Taylor's friends that
24:42she was afraid of him police also
24:44learned that Dewey and several of his
24:46friends had hid from them when the
24:48police came to question them but I feel
24:50like if he's like a biker gang meth head
24:53guys yeah it's not about the murder it's
24:56just about like either knowing that you
24:58have drugs on you or just paranoia from
25:01yeah much drugs like I mean that's kind
25:03of I feel like they could predict that
25:05behavior better and see that it's not
25:07related to the murder but Who am I and
25:09she was probably scared of him because
25:10he was on meth I'm yeah I mean some
25:13biker dude that's just kind of tweaked
25:15out like of course you're gonna be a
25:16little sketchy around them furthermore
25:19when police later found and questioned
25:21him he initially gave police a fake name
25:24all right I would have thought he was
25:26guilty there's no meth involved I
25:27ability this guy's [ __ ] guilty yeah I
25:29mean it's right off the bat yeah I I
25:32don't know despite this Dewey ultimately
25:35cooperated with the police during the
25:37investigation and subsequent
25:38interrogations Dewey admitted he knew
25:42the victim and he had been to her house
25:44but denied any involvement in or
25:46knowledge of the crime when he was
25:48questioned again police recover
25:50a t-shirt that belonged to him which was
25:52stained with oil grease and blood okay
25:55guilty I know but just wait yep
26:00during the investigation police
26:02recovered the shirt do we was wearing
26:03when the crime occurred the shirt had
26:07several bloodstains on it do we claim
26:09that it was his blood on the shirt but
26:12police didn't believe him using the
26:18methods of DNA testing that were
26:20available in the 90s police tested the
26:23blood from Dewey's shirt the testing
26:25confirmed that the blood on the shirt
26:27was consistent with Dewey the victim and
26:31forty-five percent of the population
26:33that's a terrible [ __ ] test yeah it
26:35just seems like why bother he's just a
26:3750% that's really a basically oh it's
26:41one out of two like it's a it's you may
26:43as well just guess or flip a coin that's
26:45awful
26:46in addition and also it's just like you
26:49can't rule him out but you can't convict
26:51him based on that even though they're
26:52gonna [ __ ] try yeah in addition to
26:56testing Dewey's shirt the state
26:58conducted DNA testing on the victims
27:00fingernails and semen from a blanket
27:03where she was raped the testing
27:05confirmed that Dooley was not the source
27:06of the semen or the DNA found under the
27:09victims fingernails
27:10despite this prosecutors continue to
27:12pursue him based on other circumstantial
27:15evidence that should have been enough
27:16right there to get him out right now
27:19your semen it's not you're scraping like
27:21this someone else like obvious value so
27:24I know if I ever get raped or murder I'm
27:26scraping the shoe I'm gonna just pretend
27:29like you're getting good yeah I'm a baby
27:32kittens like tiny little scrapes yeah
27:35I'm just gonna scratch the [ __ ] out of
27:37someone and then I'm gonna try and hold
27:39the [ __ ] inside me Oh
27:41the real-time no you're gonna rub it all
27:44over my body but oh my god just douse
27:48myself so no traces just in case some
27:51idiot cop like [ __ ] up the semen like
27:53yeah there's no way everywhere it's
27:56literally I'm covered in it and maybe a
28:01little thing that he like here they have
28:03to convict the man cuz I like what kind
28:04of man rubs his but it was really me
28:10you're just a genius yeah to get his ass
28:12convicted yeah a Dewey's trial in 1996
28:17the prosecution relied on the DNA
28:19results from testing the blood on his
28:22shirt emphasizing that the profile was
28:24consistent with the victim's blood
28:26but leaving out the fact that it was
28:28also consistent with him and 41 yeah
28:32that's awful the prosecution also
28:35emphasized Dewey's suspicious actions
28:37during the initial stages of the
28:39investigation even though he eventually
28:41cooperated Dewey's defense team asserted
28:44that the blood on his shirt was his own
28:47blood not the victims and argued that
28:49the real perpetrator was the person who
28:51left the semen on the blanket and male
28:53DNA under the victims fingernails the
28:57prosecutors countered this by arguing
28:59that there must have been a second
29:00perpetrator who assisted Dewey in
29:02committing the crime [ __ ] Touche
29:05yeah that's a good comeback [ __ ] but
29:09it's I mean it worked but it's still
29:11just like that's not what happened
29:13the jury found Dewey guilty of
29:15first-degree murder and sexual assault
29:17he was given a life sentence with no
29:20possibility of parole at a sentencing
29:22hearing Dewey warned the judge there's
29:24still a killer out there it's
29:27infuriating
29:28Dewey's conviction was affirmed when the
29:31appeals did not overturn the rulings the
29:34Innocence Project began working on his
29:36case in 2007 when Dewey and his
29:39appointed post-conviction counsel
29:41Daniel Jaffe reached out to the
29:43Innocence Project for assistance in late
29:462009 Joffe and the Innocence Project
29:49discovered that forensic analytical
29:51sciences retain DNA extracts from the
29:54pre
29:54trial DNA testing of the blood on
29:56Dewey's shirt FAS retested the evidence
30:00using more advanced methods and this
30:02testing definitively excluded the victim
30:05as the source of the blood on Dewey
30:07shirt furthermore the DNA of the semen
30:10from the blanket matched the DNA from
30:12the victims fingernail scrapings neither
30:15of which matched Dewey it's free he's
30:18off right they're gone just let him go
30:21immediately the Innocence Project and
30:24jothee brought this evidence to the
30:26attention of the Colorado Attorney
30:28General's justice review project a
30:30grant-funded organization tasked with
30:32reviewing cases in which DNA evidence
30:35could lead to exonerations that'd be an
30:37awesome an organization to work for I
30:39think that in the Innocence Project is
30:41dream job and I should just reach out to
30:45them and donate and volunteer that's
30:48what we gotta do how the amazing the
30:50project agreed to retest several
30:52additional items of evidence at the
30:54Colorado Bureau of Investigation
30:56laboratory this testing confirmed the
30:59results from the FAS and developed a DNA
31:02profile suitable for comparison to the
31:04CODIS DNA databank
31:06gotta love CODIS yay CODIS we're all
31:08about that that code or anything like it
31:11incomparable the comparison yielded a
31:15hit to another man in the database that
31:18man was already serving a life sentence
31:20for a 1989 home invasion rape and murder
31:23in Fort Collins after an extensive
31:26investigation the Sheriff's Department
31:29concluded that Dewey was innocent and
31:31that the actual perpetrator was the man
31:33whose semen and DNA was left at the
31:35crime scene
31:36well now [ __ ] duh like we should have
31:39known that from the beginning but
31:40whatever on April 30th 2012 Joffe the
31:44Innocence Project and the Mesa County
31:46District Attorney's Office jointly filed
31:48a motion to vacate Dewey's conviction
31:50the court granted the motion and
31:53declared Dewey innocent after serving 17
31:56years in prison
31:58Robert due he became a free man in his
32:01civil suit he was compensated
32:03approximately 1.2 million dollars as he
32:06should be yeah
32:08the same day the court issued an arrest
32:10warrant for the actual perpetrator named
32:12Douglas Thames [ __ ] Douglas Dewey who
32:16was 51 at the time now faced the
32:18challenge of finding work with a prison
32:20record and fixing a back problem that
32:23worsened in prison he also joked that
32:25there was a matter of learning about
32:27texting cell phones and computers which
32:30is a joke but it's like true two years
32:32in prison at that time were so much
32:34technology change 39 year old Douglas
32:38Thames the one who actually committed
32:40the crime was renting an apartment in
32:431994 on the opposite side of the street
32:46two or three buildings down from where
32:49the 19 year old JC Taylor was discovered
32:51raped and murdered witnesses told
32:53investigators over the recent months
32:55that Thames girlfriend at the time was
32:57friends with JC Taylor and that Thames
33:00and his girlfriend had classes with
33:02Taylor at Palisades high at the time of
33:05the DNA there at the time of the DNA
33:07exoneration Thames was serving life in
33:10prison without the possibility of parole
33:11for his conviction in a 1989 rape and
33:15murder of Susan Dahl and fourth Collins
33:18Thames was charged in 2012 for the
33:21murder of JC Taylor he was found guilty
33:23on charges of first degree murder felony
33:26murder and first degree sexual assault
33:28by the Mesa County jury and 2015 Thames
33:32was sentenced to a term of life in
33:34prison without the possibility of parole
33:35plus 48 consecutive years in prison
33:39the next case we have is one of the
33:41longest incarcerations before
33:43exoneration it's not the absolute
33:46longest but it's pretty high up there on
33:49the evening of March 4th 1974 a
33:52nine-year-old boy sleeping at his home
33:54in Lake Wales Florida was dragged to a
33:57baseball field and raped baseball fields
33:59are really lit up too crazy like the
34:03woods makes more sense woods the victim
34:06told police that his assailant appeared
34:08to have been 17 or 18 years old and had
34:10a mustache and bushy sideburns
34:11definitely again 70s and 80s style
34:16according to the victim the man has said
34:19his name is Jim or Jimmy the victims
34:21thought in his description sounded a lot
34:23like Jimmy Bain police showed the victim
34:25six photographs of potential suspects
34:28and he chose the one of Bane however of
34:30the photographs in the lineup only Bane
34:33and one other man had sideburns so he
34:37would pick out of the two yeah that's
34:40[ __ ] so it could have just been luck I
34:43mean just yeah terrible luck so the boy
34:45also told police that he remembered
34:46seeing a red motorcycle which by
34:48coincidence Bane own that's a little
34:50suspicious I mean if he remembers that
34:52yeah got to me again they sound guilty
34:55at first to me I would like the evidence
34:57but I guess I approach it with the eyes
34:59of like knowing that they're innocent
35:02like yo that's random a red recycle I
35:06get how the details matched up yeah it's
35:09a really strange coincidence and yeah
35:11these do happen like that it's not
35:12impossible right so during the time that
35:15the crime was committed then
35:16eighteen-year-old Bane had just walked
35:17home from a party at a friend's house
35:19just down the block from his own place
35:21in Bartow Florida when he walked in the
35:23door at 10:30 p.m. Eastern to watch TV
35:25with his sister and soon fell asleep the
35:28police showed up at the Bane house to
35:30question him on March 5th 1974 he
35:32immediately cooperated with the police
35:33questioning and said I'm thinking I'm
35:36just gonna go clear this matter up I
35:37didn't even say anything to my parents
35:39or sister yeah of course and that's
35:41really the tell-tale sign of an innocent
35:44person like you just don't think that
35:46it's even possible that someone could
35:48think that you did this cuz you know in
35:50your heart in your mind that you just
35:51didn't do it yeah so when you're
35:54innocent and you just go along with it
35:55they convinced anyways but when you
35:57don't when you ask for a lawyer you look
35:58guilty as [ __ ] right like you just
36:00screwed either way um let's see but
36:03after two nights in the Polk County Jail
36:05Bane's still didn't know the accusations
36:07against him which is weird two nights in
36:10jail you should probably know what
36:11you're there for yeah that sounds like
36:12miss condom No yeah cuz then you get
36:17like a bail amount and based on your
36:19whatever yeah I'm in for finally police
36:22told him about the rape of a local nine
36:24year old boy band inform police that he
36:26had been at home watching television at
36:28the time of the attack an alibi that was
36:30supported by Bane sister nevertheless
36:32the police arrested him Bane said I told
36:35them you
36:35the wrong person but I knew then from
36:38that point on my life would be totally
36:40discombobulated according to FBI
36:42analysis presented at the trial of the
36:45rapist did leave semen on the victims
36:46underwear
36:47the trial occurred however before DNA
36:49testing was available so Bain could not
36:51be definitely tied to the semen he could
36:53however match its blood group again the
36:56same thing as the previous one yeah
36:57where it's just you're just gonna be
36:59with 45% of the population so I mean
37:02there's only like what four blood groups
37:04so right the percentages on that are
37:06awful an FBI analyst testified as a
37:09prosecution witness that the semen on
37:11the underwear was a blood group be beans
37:13blood group was a V but according to
37:16them analyst Baynes group had a week a
37:18and thus could not be excluded from
37:20having deposited the semen this is not
37:23the same as a match it just means that
37:25his blood type
37:26couldn't be rolled out that's just so
37:28awful that that's the kind of testing
37:30that they had yeah to be convicted on
37:32that it's not even the right blood group
37:36it's just that it's half of it yeah it's
37:37just part of it
37:38yeah so we can't rule it out which I
37:41guess make sense but not really I mean
37:43yeah that's not enough to convict
37:44somebody but they do it mm-hmm and an
37:47expert for the defense testified that
37:49Bane's group actually had a strong a and
37:51therefore he could be definitively
37:53excluded conclusive DNA evidence as used
37:56today didn't appear in court until 1985
37:59this is 1974 the rape also occurred in
38:03the woods two miles from the house where
38:05Bain spent most of that night again a
38:07really weird coincidence right so they
38:10logically couldn't have left the party
38:12committed the crime and arrived at home
38:14within the specified timeframe and he
38:16had 12 witnesses to testify he attended
38:19the party his defense only called for
38:21mostly his family
38:23typically family members don't make good
38:25alibi witnesses because juries believe
38:27that they could be biased just saying
38:28what's good for their family member
38:30why would you out of 12 witnesses why
38:32would you call most of them being family
38:34like yeah it seems like but also 12:12
38:39not one that's not that's a bunch of
38:42people that are saying the same thing I
38:43know it's one thing to be family but
38:46that's a lot of people never call
38:48they only call a third of those people
38:50raise so that's that's crazy they cut
38:52out of the third they could have picked
38:53the other two-thirds who are not family
38:55right it created a stronger case yeah I
38:58think they mainly convicted me when the
39:00victim stood up in the courtroom and
39:01pointed at me as the perpetrator he was
39:04crying and everything in the process
39:05being said that's like that seals the
39:08case that's a nail in the coffin right
39:09there he went he gets up he's crying
39:12he's overwhelmed I mean you sympathizes
39:14them and he points at you
39:15misidentification from an eyewitness
39:17accounts for 75% of all convictions
39:20later overturned by DNA evidence
39:22according to the Innocence Project yeah
39:24and we mentioned it on the beginning of
39:27the show but it's just like this is
39:28where it really comes into play I mean
39:31there's a lot of them that have DNA
39:32evidence where the technology just
39:34hadn't caught up and wasn't good enough
39:35but there's so many where people are
39:38just flat out saying this person did it
39:40and that's what gets them convicted even
39:43though it's just not true
39:44and in a state of shock like that like
39:46you don't know like yeah I can't
39:49remember so many things that were
39:50important that happened in my day how am
39:52I gonna remember exactly what this
39:54random person looked like that happen to
39:56be walking behind this random apartment
39:58building yeah like you just don't
39:59remember those things accurately I know
40:01and I'm trying like and you're trying to
40:03block this whole thing out to if you're
40:04being raped like you were having an
40:07out-of-body like you're not you're
40:09trying to disassociate you so but also
40:11the witnesses not just oh yeah so what I
40:13mean yet it's just like you it's just
40:16too much randomness to really remember
40:18it's not important enough you know to me
40:20like I don't know I understand them for
40:23getting it more than someone that's a
40:25victim you know yeah they only got him
40:27on witness testimony right yeah in spite
40:31of this conflicting serological evidence
40:33and Bane's alibi Bane was convicted of
40:36rape kidnapping and burglary and
40:38sentenced to life in prison
40:39I want to be a serological list study
40:43bodily fluid they're a logician there we
40:46go yeah just studying semen all day the
40:49prosecution's case I think you already
40:51do that the taste test
40:57the prosecution's case rested largely on
41:00the victims identification of being and
41:02photoline up one of the many things that
41:04bothers me about this case is that he
41:06got life in prison but I feel like you
41:09constantly hear about white people
41:11getting three years or nine years for a
41:14crime very similar to this just one
41:15victim me myself I'm not minimizing that
41:18I know that that's horrific one victim
41:20but it seems like the legal system
41:22doesn't take that as seriously and when
41:25there's just one person that has been
41:28the victim of a white person they get no
41:31time less than 10 years every time but
41:34that a black person comes along and does
41:35it and they're like light prison
41:38Oh makes me so mad it's just infuriating
41:41so over the course of his sentence being
41:44spent time in six different prisons his
41:47family visited almost every weekend even
41:49when he transferred to Hendrie
41:50Correctional Institution almost a
41:52four-hour drive for them it's just so
41:55sad
41:55yeah being earned about 40 dollars a
41:57week working as a prisoner welder and
41:58doing laundry aside from his jobs being
42:01also went to school for 27 of his 35
42:04years behind bars he often played chess
42:06to take his mind off his situation you
42:09just had to try to fit into this
42:10horrible society if not you'll go crazy
42:12in there do something crazy sudden bang
42:15grew close with many other prisoners but
42:17often waited years to tell them that he
42:18was innocent that's just crazy to me I
42:21feel like if I was imprisoned for
42:24something that I didn't do I always just
42:26be screaming it all day every day
42:28everyone says it right oh my I think is
42:30completely bragging about it or they're
42:32just you're innocent but I guess that
42:35maybe that's another telltale sign of
42:36someone that's innocent it's just being
42:38quiet about it because there's so many
42:40people in jail are just like I do yeah
42:42yeah and you can't believe anyone hmm I
42:45had to know someone before I told them
42:46anything could go wrong if they don't
42:48believe you they could get mad y'all
42:50have a fight and someone winds up dead
42:52he said being admitted that he had
42:54multiple fights while in prison just to
42:56survive you can get killed for a look or
42:59just bumping into someone it's a miracle
43:01I survived he said from his first day
43:03behind bars being tried to fight his
43:05conviction he requested his prison
43:07transcripts multiple times a right
43:09granted by the Supreme Court but he
43:11neither received them nor heard back
43:13from the court still
43:14he had chain gang lawyers or like
43:16prisoners that have like legal knowledge
43:18yeah he had them write requests to the
43:21court for DNA testing the court denied
43:23him all five times they're just standing
43:26in the way of everything yes they don't
43:28want him to have justice fairness is in
43:32the way of justice like it's so so
43:35infuriating and devastating he said my
43:38first 10 13 20 years in there I thought
43:40I would never get up out of there I
43:41thought that even more when I got into
43:43the 30s in 2001 Florida passed a statute
43:46allowing cases to be reopened for DNA
43:49testing being submitted handwritten
43:51motions for time seeking such testing
43:53but was denied each time so it's like
43:56nine times God his fifth attempt was
43:59successful after an appeals court ruled
44:01he was entitled to a hearing so it's ten
44:02times he's right to appeal when arguing
44:05for DNA testing one problem stood in the
44:07way Bane didn't have his court
44:09transcripts even after he asked for it
44:11like plenty of time yeah so this is the
44:14worst
44:15after years of requesting them being
44:17finally learned only through the help of
44:19the innocent project that the court had
44:21lost them and just like destroying did
44:24evidence and yeah carelessness by the
44:27justice system carelessness or downright
44:30corruption like it's one thing to just
44:32be like oh I forgot to do that it's
44:33another thing to be like I'm gonna get
44:35rid of this because you don't deserve to
44:37have fair trial and these are
44:39transcripts they're papers that should
44:41be smiled it's not like in real evidence
44:44and a bin where I can see how they might
44:45have lost it like not knowing where it
44:48is yeah but a big bin and like you know
44:50it's just it's someone's job to protect
44:52this like it's someone's job to keep
44:55track of these things and come up with a
44:56filing system and all that like I just
44:58think of how people are inept in
45:00inadequate and just don't give a [ __ ]
45:02enough you know get lazy getting high on
45:05the job protecting evidence alright so
45:08getting high on the evidence maybe
45:10that's why it's not there because I
45:12found this coke and this weed and so now
45:15your papers are gone yeah and I just
45:17started you know I didn't have any
45:19papers so I just used your papers to
45:21roll up my weed oh your transcripts
45:25love those those were of zigzags I don't
45:27know [ __ ] what the aid of the Innocence
45:30Project of Florida Bane was finally
45:32granted access to post-conviction DNA
45:34testing the state sent the DNA found on
45:37the victims underwear to the DNA
45:38Diagnostic Center this testing excluded
45:41Bane as the source of the DNA yup the
45:44Polk County State Attorney Jerry Hill
45:46then joined the defense and a motion to
45:48declare Bane innocent on December 17th
45:512009 a judge signed the order releasing
45:53Bane from prison after 35 years at the
45:56age of 54 that's just terrible and what
45:59he said earlier just like oh the first
46:0010 20 I'm just like oh my god that's
46:04Donnie here oh dang myself honestly I
46:06can't do that I don't have that kind of
46:08like pause I'm positive but I'm not that
46:11positive dude no way
46:13there's nowhere that it's just amazing
46:16he's a [ __ ] miracle yeah and in that
46:18environment do you like I couldn't I
46:20couldn't get in through my regular life
46:22I couldn't be on house arrest the judge
46:31said you're a free man congratulations
46:33and the courtroom erupted into applause
46:36Bane said I'm not angry how can I be
46:39can't go back after the hearing in
46:41Bartow Florida as soon as Bane was
46:43released he used a cell phone for the
46:45first time to call his mother
46:48so Bane was devoutly religious while
46:51incarcerated and stayed that he actually
46:53feels blessed for this experience
46:54comparing himself to Joseph a biblical
46:57character wrongfully imprisoned before
46:58merging with a greater power to create
47:00change which I didn't know that about
47:02Joseph I don't remember that from my
47:03children's name I really don't like the
47:07person but not of that aspect yeah so
47:10Bane received 1.7 million from the state
47:12of Florida for his wrongful conviction
47:14so it's about 50 grand every year he
47:16spent in prison his mother also put her
47:18house and her car and her son's name
47:20stating I want him to have something by
47:22himself he suffered enough so
47:25devastating Bane is a leading advocate
47:28for the innocence movement sharing his
47:30wrongful conviction experience from
47:31middle schools to colleges across the
47:33country during an event at Florida
47:35Southern College a student asked him
47:37what he thought about all the technology
47:38jaysene since Lily's Bane said that cars
47:41and telephones were the most surprising
47:43to him
47:44even though there had been cars before
47:46he was incarcerated he he explained that
47:48there were none that talk back to me so
47:52cute no his humility and kindness even
47:55extended to the rape victim whose
47:56misidentification helped put Bane behind
47:59bars when the two met after his release
48:01being apologized for what happened to
48:04him boo that's just as well yeah way to
48:07go man this guy's an upstanding like
48:09just amaze inspirational for sure I was
48:12very very sorry that I had to occur to
48:14him at such a young age being said I
48:16know what his family and uncle had to go
48:18through to try and prove me guilty at
48:20the time Bane is married has a son and
48:22is now in the process of writing a book
48:24and I was like I'm gonna die yeah
48:26amazing he was in college for use in
48:29school for 27 years oh wow I really want
48:32to hear I mean I'm sure his book will be
48:34really phenomenal that's crazy
48:36but let's hope it's on audible because I
48:39don't read the next one is interesting
48:46and we chose to put it in because
48:48there's a few twists and turns and
48:50flip-flopping back and forth and it's
48:52kind of more of a roller coaster story
48:54on August 15th 1982 two teenagers
48:58Marilyn green and her fiance
49:00Jerry Hillard were shot and killed near
49:03swimming pool in Washington Park on the
49:06south side of Chicago Porter then a 27
49:09year old gang member was identified by
49:11several witnesses including William
49:14Taylor who had been swimming in the pool
49:16at the time of the shooting initially
49:19the witness Taylor said he had not seen
49:21the crime itself only that he had seen
49:23Porter run past shortly after the shots
49:26were fired
49:27eventually he admitted to have seen
49:29Porter actually firing the shots
49:31ultimately at least six witnesses
49:34identified Porter in the shooting
49:36including one who had said he had been
49:39robbed by Porter at gunpoint a short
49:41time earlier in the same park so this
49:44one's kind of tough for me too because
49:45he is like a game member so he probably
49:47does have like violence in his past or
49:50whatever but it got his
49:51you instantly think he's guilty of
49:53course there's six people point out a
49:55known gang member yeah
49:57you're obviously I can see why they jump
50:00to conclusions yeah I can see how that
50:02stacks up against him yeah it makes
50:03sense if you saw someone running and
50:05then then all of a sudden you see
50:06someone shooting that's like completely
50:08different right but yeah that sucks to
50:11be a gang member dude because if you
50:13really don't do it yeah you need to not
50:15even steal a lollipop because you did
50:17everything wrong you're a psycho police
50:22were given leads pointing towards other
50:24suspects though including information
50:26from greens mother suggesting that a man
50:29named Elstree Simon had killed the pair
50:32for drug-related reasons but they chose
50:34to pursue only Porter upon hearing that
50:38he was under suspicion Porter went to
50:40the police in the hope of clearing his
50:42name so he came forward first like they
50:44didn't even have to seek him out which
50:46it's just again speaks to his innocence
50:49because he felt so confident and assured
50:51that he would be found innocent just
50:53gonna clear things up later oh my
50:56goodness and that's crazy for a gang
50:58member to go in there to the cop station
51:00right oh I'm gonna I know I didn't do
51:02this I'm just gonna let you guys know
51:03the truth he was immediately arrested
51:06and charged with two murders one count
51:09of armed robbery one count of unlawful
51:11restraint and two counts of unlawful use
51:15of weapons during the short trial
51:17Porter's lawyer reportedly fell asleep
51:21and never met with Porter himself until
51:24just before the start of the proceedings
51:26oh my god Judge Roberts Ladell ski
51:30sentence Porter to death calling him a
51:33perverse shark an appeal to the Illinois
51:36Supreme Court was denied in February
51:381986 and an appeal to the United States
51:41Supreme Court was denied again in 1987
51:46Porter continued to file Appeals in the
51:49years that followed which delayed the
51:51execution in 1995 during the appeals
51:55process Porter was tested to have an IQ
51:57of only 51 meaning that he may have been
52:01moderately [ __ ] in light of the new
52:04information another
52:05appeal was filed on the grounds that
52:07Porter was incapable of understanding
52:08his punishment if I I'm gonna fail that
52:12test the IQ you're taking a test I'm
52:14just gonna not good a test if I'm in
52:18jail and I need to get out of inning the
52:22death penalty then I'm gonna fail that
52:24test like I've never failed at it I'm
52:27gonna actively try to be [ __ ] oh my
52:30goodness why wouldn't you yeah I know I
52:33can understand but a lot of people try
52:34and use that as a defense and I feel
52:36like the system is pretty skeptical like
52:39you're not [ __ ] okay yeah so I feel
52:41like it I don't know I feel like it had
52:43to been pretty accurate because they
52:45have tried so hard to keep it so
52:47accurate because so many people have
52:48done that same thing yeah same thing
52:51with insanity pleas mm-hmm absolutely
52:53in 1998 Northwestern University
52:56professor David protests investigated
52:59the crime as part of a class assignment
53:00for the Innocence Project the students
53:04assigned to the porter case gathered
53:05evidence exposing major holes in the
53:08prosecution's case student Tom McCann
53:11and private investigator Paul J colino
53:14spoke to the witness William Taylor who
53:16in December 1998 recanted his original
53:19statements saying that Chicago Police
53:22had threatened harassed and intimidated
53:24him into accusing Porter another student
53:28noted that the shot had been fired by a
53:30left-handed shooter Porter was
53:32right-handed I want to I know that I
53:35don't know yeah I mean it must have been
53:37one of the eyewitness accounts or
53:38something yeah the Cook County State
53:42Attorney's Office launched a new
53:43investigation into the Porter case two
53:46days later and only 50 hours before
53:49Porter was scheduled to be killed by
53:51lethal injection
53:52he received a stay of execution from the
53:55state Supreme Court citing research that
53:58showed that his intelligence level was
53:59too low for him to understand what was
54:01going on his conviction was overturned
54:03in 1999 following the discovery of new
54:07information by the same Northwestern
54:09University students working for the
54:11Innocence Project
54:12Anthony Porter was freed from prison two
54:15days later after 17 years
54:18the charges against him were dropped the
54:20following month why would it take a
54:22month [ __ ] whatever yeah
54:26On January 29th 1999 Inez Jackson came
54:31forward saying she witnessed her
54:32then-husband Elstree Simon we talked
54:35about previously commit the crime in
54:38retaliation for the victim Jerry Hillard
54:41skimming money on drug deals she also
54:44said that she had never met or seen
54:46Porter before
54:47Inez Jackson's nephew whose apartment
54:50Simon allegedly fled to after the
54:53shooting came forward to corroborate her
54:55story four days later on February 3rd
54:59Simon himself appeared to confess to the
55:02crimes on videotape al-suri Simon was
55:06formally charged in September 1999 and
55:09pleaded guilty to two counts of
55:10second-degree murder he was found guilty
55:13and sentenced to thirty seven and a half
55:15years in prison she's a really low time
55:18for two counts of second-degree murder
55:19yeah that's not enough so in 2005 Inez
55:25Jackson and her nephew Walter Jackson
55:27who were the witnesses against al-suri
55:30Simon recanted their statements the
55:33explanation that they gave was that the
55:35Northwestern University Innocence
55:37Project director David Protess
55:39had promised them money and also
55:42promised to help them free their family
55:45members from prison in exchange for
55:47lying and saying that they had seen a
55:50Sri Simon so his motivation was
55:53basically that he wanted to get the
55:56convictions overturned and get these
55:58people exonerated so it looked better
55:59for the Innocence Project and it looked
56:01better for the Northwestern University
56:03Innocence Project ulcery Simon also
56:06recanted his confession he said that he
56:09was pressured into making a false
56:11statement by the Innocence Project as
56:13well he said he was shown a videotape of
56:17an actor pretending to be a witness who
56:19implicated him in the crime and he had
56:22also been promised by the Innocence
56:24Project that he would get a short prison
56:26sentence and a movie deal if he
56:28confessed it's just not enough
56:32for me to confess to a crime a movie and
56:35a short sentence you're still going to
56:37prison you're still a [ __ ] murderer
56:39wouldn't trust anyone no way
56:42so David protests from the Northwestern
56:45University Innocence Project and Paul
56:47quily no have vigorously denied any
56:50wrongdoing they protest that a number of
56:53Simons claims are false and stand by
56:55Simon's guilt in 2011 David protests was
56:59placed on leave from Northwestern
57:01University after school officials found
57:03that he had deliberately falsified
57:05evidence related to a subpoena for
57:08another wrongful conviction case so he
57:11was clearly had a pattern of this so
57:13much so that Northwestern University let
57:15him go it's apparent that the
57:18Northwestern University Innocence
57:20Project was more concerned with
57:21undermining
57:22Illinois's adoption of the death penalty
57:24than with identifying the truth of the
57:27murders so they kind of prioritized
57:29lying about these cases so they could
57:32get their case rates up and so they
57:34could fight the death penalty and that
57:35was ultimately their caused they wanna
57:37make another about yeah they would just
57:39do anything for it yeah whether it be
57:41money or promises lying and all that it
57:44was so corrupt it's disappointed I know
57:47I guess this is probably a bad way to
57:49end the episode that they can be they're
57:52not all innocent I mean there are all
57:54great people they do the same [ __ ] that
57:56cops do you know pay for testimony they
57:59go where see with shorter sentences you
58:01know I mean yeah I just think that this
58:03is a situation of the bad apple spoiling
58:06it for the Munch I don't think that most
58:08people in the Innocence Project are
58:10doing this I think that it's the case of
58:12just one person doing it and maybe a
58:14couple corrupt people but I don't think
58:17that's by enlarge the way that people do
58:19it most cops aren't all bad - we just
58:22liked it that we just find a lot of
58:24cases where they [ __ ] up yeah yeah I I
58:27definitely think that that's worth
58:29mentioning yeah there's a small
58:31percentage of people there doing bad
58:33things
58:34yeah and they think they're doing it for
58:35the right reason I think yeah where
58:37they're just like oh I want to get the
58:38death penalty overturned or the cops
58:40want to put people in jail that they
58:42think are not innocent yeah but it's
58:46the people like cops medical
58:48professionals all the ones that have to
58:50be really really careful with their jobs
58:53are the ones with 12-hour shifts yeah
58:55you know what I mean where you're a
58:57certain amount of hours your brain just
58:59can't function right so it's like what
59:01that's your last call tonight yeah I
59:03don't want to go home do you not want to
59:06go sit in my bed and Netflix yeah I get
59:10it but I don't like that we should shut
59:12we should cut down hours you know maybe
59:14they would function a little bit better
59:15yeah I just think that there's no excuse
59:18for that kind of be no question if
59:20you're gonna be a cop you need to like
59:21take your job seriously yeah absolutely
59:23so ultimately the Cook County
59:26prosecutors finally threw out Simon's
59:28conviction in October 2014
59:31leaving unanswered questions of who
59:34committed the murders so they hopefully
59:36they're still unsolved
59:37so they both got exonerated exactly Wow
59:40yeah that's pretty crazy one on that
59:44note thank you for checking out another
59:47episode of murdered dictionary again it
59:50would be greatly appreciated if you
59:51would rate review and subscribe and give
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