Eva Schloss Interview - Holocaust survivor and step-sister of Anne Frank — Transcript

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1. 0:00[Music]
2. 0:06Today, the update is speaking to Ava
3. 0:08Schllo, a Holocaust survivor who spent
4. 0:10the last year of World War II imprisoned
5. 0:12in the Ashitzburg Canal concentration
6. 0:13camp. Ava, thank you for being here
7. 0:16today. It's a pleasure. Thank you. So,
8. 0:19stories of survivors such as yourself
9. 0:21are vital to our understanding of this
10. 0:23part of history, and many of us students
11. 0:26study this history in class today.
12. 0:29um and we're supposed to learn important
13. 0:31lessons from it. But what if anything
14. 0:34did you take away from your time during
15. 0:36the war? That's difficult to say in a
16. 0:38few words but um it was unbelievable
17. 0:42that um Germany and Austria where Jewish
18. 0:45people were actually very well
19. 0:48integrated in society that suddenly they
20. 0:51were um enemies of the country and um to
21. 0:57be destroyed and this I don't think has
22. 1:00ever happened before in history and um
23. 1:04so this is why it is so very important
24. 1:06important to learn about it and realize
25. 1:10how it could have happened and why it
26. 1:12happened because it was not from one day
27. 1:14to the next. It was really to bring back
28. 1:16to the First World War. What was it like
29. 1:19being imprisoned in an environment where
30. 1:21the Nazis tried to dehumanize you? Did
31. 1:24you ever lose hope and feel like it was
32. 1:26starting to work? Um, well, one of the
33. 1:29reason why I'm sitting here and why I
34. 1:31survived is that I never ever gave up
35. 1:34hope. that um the war would end and I
36. 1:37would still be alive. Um and many many
37. 1:41little miracles happened which helped
38. 1:44me. So it was not just a hope but it was
39. 1:47really well I can only call it miracles.
40. 1:51What has stuck with you the most from
41. 1:53your experience in hiding?
42. 1:57Well, I was just um 13 years old when I
43. 2:01start started to be in hiding in
44. 2:031942. And um I was really um an outdoor
45. 2:08person, very sporty. And um I just hated
46. 2:12to sit down day in day out just sitting
47. 2:16and um being silent just with my mother.
48. 2:20I'm not able to go out and play and meet
49. 2:24friends and just be isolated from the
50. 2:26world. And then the Nazis did house
51. 2:29searches. And um really they wanted to
52. 2:33catch every Jew. So at night we had to
53. 2:36we had a hiding place within the hiding
54. 2:38place. Night when they came we had to
55. 2:41quickly go in there hoping they wouldn't
56. 2:44find us. So it was very frightening and
57. 2:46anxious if you're 13 years to go through
58. 2:50this for two years. Um a lot of what you
59. 2:53experienced was due to your faith. Um
60. 2:57did this experience affect your
61. 2:59connection to your faith in any way?
62. 3:02Um well we were of course a Jewish
63. 3:05family but not actually very religious.
64. 3:08So
65. 3:10um you know um where in the camp were of
66. 3:14course many many very religious people
67. 3:17who prayed all the time for um this
68. 3:21disaster to stop and um and eventually
69. 3:26we realized the non-religious people
70. 3:28realized that's the only thing we could
71. 3:31do to pray to God to stop this but God
72. 3:35wasn't there for us. So I came out of
73. 3:38the camp really an
74. 3:40atheist. But not only I didn't believe
75. 3:43in God, I didn't believe in humanity
76. 3:45either because I had experienced
77. 3:47unbelievable cruelty. And so I thought,
78. 3:51you know, if people are um created in
79. 3:54the image of God, how can people be so
80. 3:57evil? and um so and living without
81. 4:02belief in God or in humans make life
82. 4:06very very tough. So after the Russian
83. 4:09army liberated you um how did you return
84. 4:12to normal life and interact with people
85. 4:14who hadn't experienced what you had?
86. 4:17Well that's true. That was very very
87. 4:19difficult because I hated everybody. I
88. 4:22didn't trust anybody anymore. We were
89. 4:24betrayed by Dutch nurse and
90. 4:27um yeah this was that is why life was so
91. 4:31hard actually because I had nowhere to
92. 4:34hold on to and um it took um 20 30 years
93. 4:40to get over it and um I met of course
94. 4:43some wonderful people as well and um I
95. 4:47had three daughters and um I started to
96. 4:51try to try to get over it. But what was
97. 4:55the difficulty? I mean, I think if my
98. 4:57family, my brother and father had
99. 4:59survived, I probably would have got over
100. 5:02quicker. But to make a life without them
101. 5:05made it very, very difficult. Um, after
102. 5:08the war, did you feel any prejudice,
103. 5:11hatred, or bitterness growing inside
104. 5:13you? If so, who were these directed at,
105. 5:15and how did you deal with them?
106. 5:18I I did hate everybody and I and I was I
107. 5:23didn't trust anybody. I was miserable.
108. 5:25So um that made life very very
109. 5:28difficult. But it wasn't me. It wasn't
110. 5:31my nature, you know. I was I loved
111. 5:33people before. I was very friendly like
112. 5:36to have many people around me and so on.
113. 5:39And it was actually Otto Frank who and
114. 5:42his father who came to our house very
115. 5:45often and he who had lost everything all
116. 5:48his family he said you know I don't hate
117. 5:51anybody I said it was a terrible thing
118. 5:54in history but um it won't help you to
119. 5:58hate people they don't know that you
120. 6:00hate you will only miserable so um he
121. 6:04tried to teach me to become more
122. 6:06sociable he said put a smile on your
123. 6:08face that go out in the world, you will
124. 6:10see it's not as bad as this past years.
125. 6:15And I tried, but it was easier said than
126. 6:17done. I was not successful for many,
127. 6:20many years, but I didn't give up trying.
128. 6:24It's been said that a lot of Nazis acted
129. 6:27out of fear of Hitler and what he would
130. 6:30do potentially to their families and not
131. 6:32because they actually believed in what
132. 6:35his views were. Is this a fair argument?
133. 6:38and having been aided by those who
134. 6:40decided to um risk themselves instead of
135. 6:44following him. Do you have any sympathy
136. 6:47for those who decided instead to follow
137. 6:50him? Um for many many years I didn't
138. 6:53have any sympathy. I really hated those
139. 6:56people who did this to us. But through
140. 6:59history now I've learned that um there
141. 7:03was actually quite a lot of resistance.
142. 7:07But many people who resisted were
143. 7:09imprisoned, were killed as well. And um
144. 7:13I actually um had a letter the other day
145. 7:16from a woman who told that her father
146. 7:20was a Nazi and a murderer, but he was
147. 7:24not really an evil person. It was
148. 7:26through
149. 7:27circumstances that he was drawn into a
150. 7:30situation where he was perhaps weak but
151. 7:34not evil. And I considered that and I
152. 7:38realized that fighting and we heard that
153. 7:41with Americans in Vietnam, but they did
154. 7:44terrible things to the local population
155. 7:47and those were not bad people but it is
156. 7:50in in situations you do things which you
157. 7:53would never do in an ordinary situation.
158. 7:57So I have now um more accepted of course
159. 8:01the people who planned all this you know
160. 8:04there was the one day conference where
161. 8:06all those Nazis had together and decided
162. 8:10final solution would be to guest all the
163. 8:13Jewish people. They had no reason to be
164. 8:17distracted by terrible circumstances.
165. 8:19They were really evil. They really
166. 8:21wanted to kill people. For those people
167. 8:24I have no pardon. and I would never
168. 8:26forgive those people. You spoke just
169. 8:29then about uh the Americans in Vietnam
170. 8:32and I was wondering uh when the American
171. 8:35bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki took
172. 8:37place uh a lot of people thought this
173. 8:39was targeting innocent
174. 8:41people just as the Nazis targeted other
175. 8:44innocent people, but these bombings were
176. 8:46in the hope of ending the war and
177. 8:49defeating the allies of the Germans.
178. 8:52What are your thoughts on those actions?
179. 8:56Well, it was of course killing and
180. 8:59killing many many millions of people and
181. 9:03civilians, but I think the effect of the
182. 9:06atom bomb was not known at the time. You
183. 9:09know, um the English um bombed the
184. 9:12English man bombed Restston with
185. 9:14firebombs. It was horrific. They knew
186. 9:17what was happening then. But in
187. 9:19Hiroshima, they didn't really know that
188. 9:22it would affect people for many
189. 9:26generations. And um but perhaps they
190. 9:29could have waited a bit longer because
191. 9:31the war would have ended
192. 9:33anyway. Japanese were on the point of
193. 9:36giving up and I think they knew that.
194. 9:39But they prepared the atom bomb and they
195. 9:41wanted to use it. So I think it's not
196. 9:45really forgivable. How long do you think
197. 9:47the German government should pay for the
198. 9:50crimes committed by the Nazis during the
199. 9:52war? Should they still feel guilty?
200. 9:57Um, I don't really know, but a fact is
201. 10:01that many young people who had nothing
202. 10:04to do with it do feel
203. 10:06guilty. So, um, I don't think and I've
204. 10:09talked to them and I said, um, you don't
205. 10:12have to feel guilty. It had nothing to
206. 10:14do with you. And um but the perpetrators
207. 10:18I mean now there are not many alive
208. 10:20anymore but those were actually those
209. 10:24people who did those crimes were guilty
210. 10:27and I don't think they even were sorry
211. 10:29for what they done so they should have
212. 10:32been punished and not not many enough
213. 10:34were punished many got away um Mangal a
214. 10:39camp doctor who killed many many
215. 10:42thousands of people um escaped to South
216. 10:45America and lived there his whole life
217. 10:47happily.
218. 10:49So they should have called more of them
219. 10:52I think at the time. But now we have to
220. 10:56forgive people it's past. In a previous
221. 10:59interview you said that countries
222. 11:00refused to accept immigrants when you
223. 11:02and your family were moving around. Do
224. 11:04you think we're handling refugees better
225. 11:06especially in light of the current
226. 11:07crisis? No, I think we make exactly the
227. 11:12same mistake. um they are not treated as
228. 11:15human beings. They are not welcomed and
229. 11:18everybody besides Germany is trying not
230. 11:22to take any in at all. Um I think
231. 11:26Germany like you said still has a guilt
232. 11:28feeling about um what happened in the
233. 11:31Second World War and that's why they are
234. 11:33trying to make amends. But of course not
235. 11:36everybody agrees.
236. 11:38So it is difficult but people should
237. 11:42really realize that those are people who
238. 11:45need definitely be
239. 11:47helped and it is a part the fault of
240. 11:50America and England and France who have
241. 11:53attacked those countries because without
242. 11:56having attacked those countries there
243. 11:57wouldn't be those refugees. Um, today
244. 12:00political ideologies from the extreme
245. 12:02right are growing rapidly, such as the
246. 12:06in France and Donald Trump in the USA.
247. 12:10Their methods and opinions are built on
248. 12:12racism and discrimination similar to the
249. 12:15core beliefs of the
250. 12:17Nazis. Why do you think we haven't
251. 12:19learned the lessons from history and
252. 12:21these parties continue to grow and
253. 12:23attract large followings?
254. 12:26I think people are afraid of people they
255. 12:29don't know. You know, they are
256. 12:32different. They have different uh rules,
257. 12:35different manners, different languages
258. 12:37and um they are scared of this I think.
259. 12:40But I I wish I know would know why
260. 12:44people are so much against it because in
261. 12:47every country um when I was in America I
262. 12:50said I speak to spoke to a big audience
263. 12:53and I said to them you know I don't
264. 12:55think anybody of you here is really a
265. 12:58native American you know you're all from
266. 13:02descendant of refugees and you have done
267. 13:05very well in this country so why not
268. 13:07carry on with the tradition of letting
269. 13:09people in and you know I fly sometimes
270. 13:12from east coast to west coast and
271. 13:15America is huge has enormous empty
272. 13:18spaces and those people can start new
273. 13:21towns new villages like the refugees
274. 13:24have done um from England from Italy and
275. 13:27from Norway from everywhere in the world
276. 13:30and um eventually they will become
277. 13:32Americans and um um you know you should
278. 13:36let those people give give them a
279. 13:40Um, as the number of survivors like
280. 13:43yourself dwindle, is there a risk that
281. 13:45younger generations begin to think that
282. 13:48World War II and all its accompanying
283. 13:50history is so far in the past that it
284. 13:53doesn't really affect them? And if so,
285. 13:57what's to be done about this? Well, we
286. 13:59in England have now a committee where I
287. 14:02on it um to see what we can do for the
288. 14:06future um in in England now they're
289. 14:09going to be build a new museum and um a
290. 14:13learning center. So I don't think like
291. 14:16Jewish people you know we remember all
292. 14:18our tragedies in life um the slavery in
293. 14:22Egypt and um all kind of things which
294. 14:25happened to us the um can't think of it
295. 14:29in Spain the Inquisition when Jewish
296. 14:33people were banned from Spain and
297. 14:35Portugal and you know a lot of tragedies
298. 14:39have happened to the Jewish people and
299. 14:41it is always remembered so I think we
300. 14:43will remember the Holocaust. But it's
301. 14:46more important to learn from it. Not
302. 14:48just remember, but to learn how
303. 14:51dangerous and how bad it is to attack
304. 14:54other people who are not from the same
305. 14:56religion. And we see this now with the
306. 14:59Muslims, the Sunumi and the Shia. Both
307. 15:02Muslim people attack each other and kill
308. 15:04each other. But that happened with
309. 15:06Christianity as well. when Martin Luther
310. 15:10in Germany in 1500 in Holland we had an
311. 15:1380year war between Christian um
312. 15:16Christian people became Protestants and
313. 15:19Catholic and in France the hugonauts um
314. 15:23the Protestants were murdered by the
315. 15:24Catholics. So it's not something new
316. 15:27really. And the crusaders when the
317. 15:30Christians went to murder the Muslims in
318. 15:34in Palestine, you know, it's something
319. 15:36which has been with us for generations.
320. 15:40And um I'm afraid um it's going on still
321. 15:44and it will go on for more um many many
322. 15:48more years. But I hope that eventually
323. 15:51we will learn that it is stupidity to
324. 15:55kill other people just because they are
325. 15:57different. Well, thank you so much, Ava.
326. 16:00We're really honored that you took the
327. 16:01time to sit with us. Well, thank you.
328. 16:04Thank you.