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Eva Schloss: Holocaust Survivor — Transcript

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0:00okay if I'm so good to have you your 90
0:04year old young very good my mother's a
0:08hundred so you're a really young girl
0:10you know but earlier we decided that
0:16everybody here know about Anne Frank and
0:17you are one month older than aunt right
0:20and from the 11th year you move to
0:23Amsterdam and you live together opposite
0:27each other you play together your
0:28playmate right school friends is she
0:32very different from you I was a tomboy I
0:38like to be wild I played soccer and
0:43rugby and all those different things and
0:46that it takes on a bicycle is a boys and
0:50of us
0:51the acrobats and all this kind of things
0:53and uh nervous Moya a sophisticated
0:56little lady very interested in health
1:00dresses and her hairstyle but as well in
1:03boys he's 11 years old she was already a
1:06big flirt and when I told her I had an
1:11older brother she said oh when can I
1:13come and meet him okay um but you know
1:17he wasn't interested in a little girl's
1:19age of his baby sister I was his baby
1:23sister's over there only three years
1:24apart so nothing came of that but you
1:30know I met the family and they came from
1:33Germany I came from Austria so I didn't
1:36speak Dutch yet and so I met her father
1:39otto frank who later became my
1:41stepfather and he spoke German with me
1:44which was a great help at the time and
1:48yeah so far unfortunately not very long
1:52because we came to Amsterdam in 1940 and
1:55in 1942 when the Nazis had occupied
1:59Holland we had to go into hiding and so
2:04I never ever saw Anna anymore about two
2:08three years yeah two years two years do
2:12you know that he kept she can
2:13diary yes and news it she got it
2:16actually on her birthday her certains
2:20birthday just a few weeks before the
2:24family went into hiding so that was very
2:28lucky because because otherwise she
2:30would never have written it so it was
2:32for her 13th birthday Otto bought it
2:36here at the bookshop which is out the
2:38corner where we used to live Dora this
2:42bookshop has become very very famous
2:44because all the tourists who come to
2:48Holland go in this bookshop and the men
2:51who only didn't know well at the time he
2:54owned it there was a new owner
2:56why do all those tourists come in my
2:58book shop from all over the world and it
3:01turned out that they knew that the diary
3:04was bought there and so now this
3:06bookshop owner has made a statue on the
3:10square where we lived of an effect and
3:13to memory on Anna and when I went to
3:18first have to see that to visit there I
3:20said to him yeah it's very nice you've
3:23done that but in this area they lived
3:26many many many Jewish children and most
3:30of them haven't survived and haven't
3:32returned so you should really put on the
3:35plaque not just Anna Frank but for all
3:38the Jewish children who lived there
3:40yeah but she didn't bear diarrhea in my
3:42shop so he didn't want to know but did
3:46he know that you know and yes I told him
3:50I told him yeah so what's she a very
3:54literary person the 13 euros very young
3:57you know to be writing daily Diaries and
3:59so forth well when you read the diary
4:02she actually rewrite it she devoted
4:06herself because after a year in hiding
4:09there was a radio program from a British
4:13minister who said it is very important
4:17that people that Diaries because so we
4:20know what has happened in that time so
4:23after a year having written her diary
4:25she rewrote it for publication but he
4:29did she did herself she died before she
4:32died yes he was two years in hiding but
4:34she wrote it after one year he's right
4:37on top yeah not a whole book because he
4:40hadn't finished it yet but what she had
4:42written she found it was too childish
4:45which it was of course but so when she
4:48was a year older and has been a Yein
4:51hiding she had already matured quite a
4:54bit and so she rewrote said but later on
4:59after Otto died said that's the Otto
5:03left the diary to the Dutch government
5:05it was 1980 yeah when the father of Anne
5:09Frank and your stepfather died in not
5:12yeah in his will he left a diary to the
5:15government because if the Dutch
5:17government will always exist but if you
5:20leave it to anybody's event not look
5:23after it properly and so that's
5:26government decided they would published
5:29the first edition as well but Anna wrote
5:32first and so it's a very big book and it
5:36is actually there not so many copies
5:38made because it's for people to want to
5:41study her writing they can compare the
5:44different versions when you read it did
5:46anything surprise you or what surprised
5:50you the most well a new Auto Bastion
5:56already so he wasn't yet married to my
6:00mother but he came to our house he
6:03supported me very much I was very very
6:07depressed when I came back when I heard
6:10that lost my father and my brother and I
6:13was full of hatred not only against the
6:16German people but the whole world
6:18because the trouble was that in nineteen
6:24and Germans invaded Europe that the
6:29world didn't want any Jewish refugees so
6:33if the world had taken in more people
6:36the Holocaust would never have happened
6:39Canada even wrote as a book one is too
6:43many they really didn't want any Jewish
6:46refugees I do they I don't know and you
6:51know Jewish people have always left
6:53different countries and in there any
6:56persecution in Poland there was always
6:59anti-semitism in Poland or in Russia or
7:02in France or in Germany even in that in
7:07the early Middle Ages but it was never
7:10of course anything like the Holocaust do
7:14you think that that it can return could
7:17it come back such hatred we do see
7:20anti-semitism in many parts of the world
7:22today unfortunately people are starting
7:24to be worried again but personally I say
7:28it's not comparable to anything of the
7:31Holocaust so hatred and the planning of
7:34Hitler seventh there was a big
7:37conference of all the Nazis and they
7:40decided how is the cheapest the quickest
7:43way of killing the whole the whole
7:46Jewish population in Europe and you
7:50succeeded in parts of course in stress
7:53it has never ever happened anything like
7:55then there were always local
7:57anti-semitism and this is what it is now
8:00as well so I don't think ever anything
8:03like this happen again but we have to
8:06talk about it we have to teach use a
8:09young people how those terrible things
8:12can happen if we are not careful okay
8:18you were full of hatred after two years
8:22a year and a half about a year of
8:24imprisonment and almost died
8:26what healed you it took a line whatever
8:33time helped of course time helped said
8:36that got married said they had a family
8:39but it it was as well I realized in the
8:43early years after the war people had
8:47changed people had all suffered the
8:50whole of Europe was and Asia
8:52as well so there are terrible terrible
8:54things not just six million people have
8:58died but 40 million Russians millions of
9:02Germans was a bombarding British people
9:05innocent people living in the home we're
9:07bombarded and killed children repair
9:10were murdered in Asia in this medicine
9:15comes from the Japanese millions of
9:18people were murdered you know it was a
9:21terrible terrible time and people wanted
9:24to have peace come and change the world
9:27so there's a flower people all living in
9:32hope and so on and you know they it was
9:36a good attitude and I met some wonderful
9:38people I didn't speak about my
9:42experience for 40 years it was at first
9:47I wanted to speak but people didn't want
9:50to hear they said we have all suffered
9:52let's just move on
9:54so we suppressed it that not just me you
9:57will hear it from all the hall called
9:59the cross survivors they were not nobody
10:03wanted to hear horror stories and then
10:07after 10 20 30 years when people started
10:11to ask we they are not ready anymore we
10:14had suppressed it and we said that is
10:16our secret we have to cope with it
10:18ourselves
10:19right so but this was difficult what
10:24make you eventually come out after 40
10:26years not talking about well it was a
10:29funny coincident in Amsterdam anybody
10:34have you been in Amsterdam to the Anna
10:36Frank house a few people it's a
10:39beautiful city
10:40and the hiding place has become a museum
10:43they get more than a million visitors
10:46every year people it's the first thing
10:50unless you get a list what to see in
10:53Amsterdam the first thing is Anna Frank
10:56house many people go there not having an
10:59idea what Anna Frank house is so they
11:02learn about it so going through the
11:04house and
11:06but was the question what but you come
11:10out yeah and so other academics work
11:16exist studying the Holocaust as well and
11:18everything and she decided not everybody
11:22can come to Amsterdam
11:23so they made started to make a traveling
11:26exhibition with the life of Anna and
11:29their race or as of Nazism and so on and
11:32the first exhibition came to London when
11:36I was living at the time it was in 1986
11:40so 41 years after we were liberated and
11:45this exhibition 57 at the time yeah
11:49that's right and Otto had died already
11:52met my mother was serviced with us
11:55staying with us at the time and of
11:57course we be invited to attend and the
12:00we're not quite as many people as now
12:02but about 200 people and there was a
12:06table access at top a platform was a
12:10table and there are many people sitting
12:12who were going to talk about the
12:14importance of learning about this event
12:17and studying it and so on and the
12:21organizer said come and sit with us at
12:24sit head table so I set up here on a
12:26platform and I just listened I was still
12:30very shy I had never spoken not only
12:33about the Holocaust but if two people
12:35were together I didn't dare to open my
12:37mouth I can't believe and beliefs that
12:39no I can't believe it either but
12:42honestly you know and so everybody spoke
12:46service as well somebody forgotten his
12:49name who was about at the movement about
12:53stopping the atom bomb at the time as
12:55well a very wonderful man spoke as well
12:58about the danger and so the young people
13:01to protest about it it's a rare load of
13:04protest to change themselves on the
13:06gates and things like that
13:08and then suddenly the organizer said and
13:11now either we want to tell you something
13:14I said no no nothing and I wanted to
13:18hide under the table but I could
13:20do that of us an adult after all so um
13:23so I got up and I had no idea it was all
13:27in my head but how do I start telling
13:29this horrible horrible story and
13:32everybody looked up and looked up and
13:35were silent and then suddenly everything
13:38which I had suppressed for forty years
13:40ago flattening out it was unbelievable
13:44it was of unbelievable relief for me
13:47that everyone can have spoken Eva did
13:52you ever tell your children about what
13:54you went through
13:55no never even today not until I smell
13:58and then people said she's Travis's
14:03exhibition travel to the whole of
14:04England and Scotland and she always
14:07asked me to say something and open it so
14:11I wasn't there public speaker of us as I
14:14say of us very shy so now we are now
14:17I've learned well I'm a bit older too
14:19and and I asked my husband to write a
14:22speech it's a head very badly because of
14:26us so nervous always had to take a
14:28tranquilizer before it says but
14:32eventually I found my own voice and then
14:35people said you have such an interesting
14:38story as well you should write a book
14:40and I did and that was Eva story and you
14:46know I had nightmare Stiller spoke I
14:48always dreamed about terrible events
14:50with that happen but once it was opens
14:54you open and I'd written about it I
14:56could let go and that was really very
14:59very important that for my whole being
15:02you know I started to be a person who I
15:05really wanted to be the advice that
15:08other people were gone through traumatic
15:10experiences that should have the writer
15:13broker right a moment to express it well
15:17people have realised now when I speak in
15:20America which I do an awful lot the
15:22first question I usually get so when you
15:26came back did you have counselling and I
15:29said no because at that time first of
15:32all we didn't have
15:33mommy secondly it wasn't done and no
15:37that was just not known at the time now
15:40in America practically everybody I meet
15:42says they have been or they still go
15:45counseling and I must admit my
15:48grandchildren all go counseling and I'm
15:51very much amazed I said why you have a
15:53good life what is your problem
15:54oh you don't know Omar you don't know if
15:59and you tell them oh you don't know what
16:02romano's has changed you know people but
16:08the soldiers who come from Wars or
16:11Afghanistan so they can t have
16:15experience or even from Vietnam zip
16:18they're veterans who have suffered so
16:20much who had done terrible things which
16:23they didn't want to do they have
16:26counseling now and then they need it
16:29just wonder just for you if you're
16:31wondering how come she calls her Anna
16:34her real name is Anna
16:36Frank and I mean the father knows her
16:38enim Anna yeah Anna I'm Elise is really
16:42a full name but she was always called
16:44Anna I know since the German but in an
16:47English one in English relations and
16:50right yeah that's right even you talk a
16:53lot so far about Anna about Anne Frank
16:56and I think everybody knows about Don
16:59Frank but during your visit this time
17:01we've also learned about another very
17:03special person and that's your brother
17:06Hines and could you share a little bit
17:08about your brother Hines so that more
17:10people can know his story the one who
17:13was not interested in an that's right
17:15yeah yes he was my older brother called
17:20Hines Felix Felix is a let'em meaning
17:23happy he was a very happy young boy
17:28McCain father years older than you three
17:32years older than me my grandfather was a
17:35amateur pianist and when my brother was
17:39four years old he took him already on
17:41his lap and I showed him how to play
17:43piano his two fingers and my brother is
17:46see
17:47years old took to the piano as if he was
17:50born to it
17:52and he started to play amazing he had
17:57the perfect year later in Holland
18:00he played Peter in we're in the furnace
18:03department where we lived there was a
18:06piano when he was 16 years old he could
18:10place a hepcidin blue from Gershwin by
18:12heart a very difficult piece of music he
18:16composed you he had all kind of talents
18:21I was most a belt person he was very
18:25very gentle it was a big big reader he
18:30taught himself in hiding later for
18:33languages besides German that's French
18:37he taught us have Spanish and Italian
18:39and in hiding of course you couldn't
18:45music here to be quiet so he started to
18:49paint and he created some amazing
18:51artwork which he was all fantasy still
18:58lifes first a petal
18:59gets a material with glass and and
19:02velvet at Coppa but then he bade scenes
19:06with people on it all just fantasy and
19:10before they were arrested she hits a
19:13paintings under the floorboard of that
19:16house and in the kettle talk when we
19:21were transported to Auschwitz because we
19:23they all betrayed he told me it's a
19:28paintings with a note on it this belongs
19:30to hansen.eric gang-up and after the war
19:34is coming to pick it up again so you
19:37survived so well he was going to another
19:41safe place never expecting that he
19:43wouldn't survive unfortunately we're
19:46betrayed and he didn't make it if you
19:50saw the paintings though and when my
19:53mother and me returned and specially
19:55after Otto got the diary of Anna which
19:58sort of saved his sanity
20:01because he was 57 years old when he
20:04heard that his whole family had perished
20:07and when he told us a news and he left
20:12us my mother and me how can this man
20:16carry on in his life he has nothing
20:19really to live for and then he gots a
20:22diary and that gave him something to
20:25think about and to do and he was so
20:27proud of it he showed it to everybody a
20:30diary is a very personal book you know
20:34and he wasn't sure if he wanted to share
20:38it with the world it was his book and
20:40and I had left it but he was he showed
20:43it off to everybody and people said it
20:46is your duty to publishes it's really a
20:49work of literature and that was - so in
20:55Holland when it was published he had
20:57difficulty finding a publisher but
20:59eventually it was a publisher who
21:02Catholic publisher and any wrote as well
21:06about her flirtation with the young boy
21:09who was hiding there and about her
21:12sexually development which at said time
21:15for something you didn't talk about so
21:18he had to take it out so it was not so
21:20regional but then days later at back
21:24yeah yeah later it was all put back
21:26again because now sex is something
21:29everybody talks about it just no no no
21:32no her school about talking about all
21:35those things now are you giving this
21:37student some idea no yeah so the world
21:42has really changed to give a kiss to a
21:44boy you didn't and he knows it was not
21:46something you are doing and she writes a
21:48mother of Peter was very upset that she
21:51was flirting with her son you know you
21:54have to wait till you're married so but
21:57things have changed of course so Otto
22:00published it of course and in 70
22:04languages and like I go everywhere in
22:08the world I mention the name of Anna
22:10Frank and everybody knows who she is and
22:13so my task is fill left in life and I'm
22:17succeeding already quite nicely to make
22:20hands my brother as well who was it was
22:24not quite 18 when he was murdered by the
22:27Nazis and nobody really marry off my
22:30mother and me said well Anna is so well
22:33known just become immortal but hence
22:36nobody knows about him
22:38so I wrote another book by second book
22:41called the promise because when hands
22:43was 12 years old
22:46we shared the room in Amsterdam he said
22:49to me every I'm scared from dying and
22:53what will happen when we die I said well
22:56I don't know let's ask our Father who
22:59has all the answers and in the morning
23:02he went to him and he said poppy what
23:04will happen when we die and my father
23:07said well yes everybody has to dies
23:10that's a natural thing of life but if
23:13you have children you live on in your
23:16children that's a seed of you will carry
23:21on and then this 12 year old boy said
23:24what if I die before if any children and
23:27my father sought a bit and then he said
23:31well whatever you have achieved if it
23:33was a short life somebody will remember
23:37somebody will knows that you have been
23:40on this earth that you had a life here
23:42even if it was short you sure you've
23:45said something you've done something
23:47perhaps a little drawing and so you will
23:51not be forgotten so he had to accept
23:54that and then of course when I realized
23:57he left a lot behind wonderful artwork
24:00and as well a lot of very very deep
24:04singing poems which I have published
24:08unfortunately in Dutch but some of them
24:11are being translated now so my task is
24:14still to make his life that people
24:17remember that he has been on this earth
24:19and that yes even if it was a short left
24:23still achieved something and you know
24:26the museum in
24:27is a yacht wash em they're trying to
24:30find the six million names and when I
24:34was once in in Russia I met a man who
24:38had come from there and he said he still
24:40goes it was a few years ago he still
24:43goes into the Russian villages where
24:46Jewish people have lived tried to find
24:49people who remembered the Jewish
24:52families who lived there and who
24:54remember perhaps the name of them then
24:56they can put him at least on the list in
24:59Yad Vashem so that at least the name of
25:02those people is I remembered what would
25:05you do with the artwork of your brother
25:08hunts well I donated to this resistance
25:12museum so they made an exhibition and of
25:16course museums have so much material
25:18it's not are there all the time but some
25:21paintings are there permanently and as
25:24well we had in America created another
25:28exhibition and they're traveling around
25:31copies of their paintings and in South
25:34Africa they made as well exhibition and
25:41and also gentlemen who play not just
25:47clan with another clan was impressed
25:50with his story
25:51and he has made a copy so you have here
25:56now as well a copy but it is at the
25:59moment going to be open after New Year
26:01you knew you Chinese New Year and I hope
26:06it will come to this part of Hong Kong
26:09as well and but it's not so far to go to
26:12this mic oh okay thanks for that either
26:16Ronny one of the things that you know we
26:18do in with our centre - we really
26:21mindful that when even mentions the
26:23number six million I hope that the
26:27students here understand the relevance
26:29of that number six million Jews were
26:33murdered in the Holocaust or died
26:38unnatural deaths in the Holocaust
26:40and so it's sometimes tough to
26:42understand what that number means
26:43nothing natural unnatural but in Europe
26:49before World War two the number of jews
26:54that were living in what was
26:56nazi-occupied Europe was only about nine
26:59plus million right that would be two out
27:01of every three Jews was murdered in the
27:05Holocaust and so what we try to do is we
27:08think about first there's a miracle that
27:13we have survivors we have even here to
27:16be able to talk with us we also think
27:18about the people that didn't make it so
27:21honor didn't make it
27:22Heinz didn't make it we had all these
27:24voices all these people that had so much
27:27to bring to the world that were lost
27:29could give you some idea Hong Kong had
27:32seven point four million people so six
27:34million people is what roughly eighty
27:36percent so one out of five so if I would
27:40account one two three four five four of
27:43you who died another one two three or
27:45five for you will die
27:47that's how many or of Hong Kong right
27:49and the numbers actually when you got to
27:52it you experienced in Auschwitz either
27:55they were much worse how many people
27:58were still alive in Auschwitz when the
28:01Russians came to liberate about five
28:04hundred out of a total of of its and
28:10about tens of thousand because the we're
28:13workin and lot of them died the reserve
28:16have taken from the whole of Europe
28:18people are aware that supported to
28:21Auschwitz I doctor Vaught I hope you
28:23don't mind me asking you but we have a
28:25specialist expert here my recollection
28:27is that the number of people that were
28:29sent to Auschwitz is something close to
28:311.3 million would that be correct more
28:35I'm sorry yes so and three in Auschwitz
28:39alone just ashes dilemma have been over
28:41over 300s comes in Germany and Poland
28:45three hundred so you can imagine the
28:49odds of being able to survive or so-so
28:53no I just have two questions and then I
28:56will invite the other three student
28:57moderators to join me number one can you
29:01tell who has a better chance of
29:04surviving is it psychologic is it
29:07physical stamina is it psychological
29:11strength what is it that well the
29:14interesting thing is that in the camps
29:18under worse conditions and the men where
29:22more women have survived so I mean
29:25that's affect the women in in
29:28auschwitz-birkenau bakunawa so women's
29:31camp was the conditions were much much
29:34much worse in the women screaming women
29:37scam and nevertheless more women
29:40giraffes and men that's interesting
29:44really right they say because we are
29:48used to suffering more than men so
29:52giving birth to pain I don't know that's
29:55not the only thing I think we just have
29:58but I don't know we've we seem to be
30:01stomer history so it's a fact it's
30:04effective the fastest it's ever made up
30:06it is they made statistic about that
30:09right and not just in Auschwitz but in
30:11all the camps a proportion where more
30:14remain survivors what about personality
30:17does it come into the picture
30:18people who spunky boy boyish tend to
30:22survive better or what you somehow
30:27tougher I don't know
30:28yeah I think so okay what other thing
30:34either that you've spoken about and
30:35we've had other survivors say there's
30:37another aspect of survival that is
30:39really at the top of the list which is
30:41luck right
30:42yeah of course as well I found a lot of
30:44luck to me little miracles happened can
30:48you tell about the story and then I
30:50invited two student and mother to come
30:52up about your mother your mother it's
30:56half love and half brain I suppose that
31:00caused her to survive I'm well it was
31:03bad luck passed she had been one select
31:07that you know so we're an arrival of
31:10Kosovo's immediately selection meanings
31:13that no children know all the people
31:17we're going into the camps event arrival
31:21already separated and guests immediately
31:25at arrival the older ones and the
31:27younger ones and the weaker ones
31:28immediately guessed well Vika ones I
31:31didn't know yet but aged young ones and
31:35older ones were taken away and then well
31:40we were working of course and we're
31:42starving to death people became weak
31:44they're not able to work anymore
31:46so from I would say every month severe
31:50selections naked you had to parade in
31:54front of the camp doctor who decided who
31:58was going to die and to live and at one
32:01of those selections
32:04I passed we had to turn around naked in
32:08front of this doctor called Mengele and
32:11my mother followed me and she was
32:14selected with 40 of our Dutch transport
32:18at the time to be taken out naked and go
32:22to the gas chambers and I had thought of
32:26cause I had lost my mother but against
32:28who were miracle she was saved and we
32:32very United again and glad you want to
32:37quickly tell the story why she survived
32:40well first so on this story my
32:44understanding of this is that your
32:48relative and this is somewhat complex
32:51but a relative from back in the days
32:53when Ava was in Austria was actually
32:58they're working with this infamous dr.
33:02Mengele and convinced this doctor that
33:06out of the 40 woman taken that Eva's
33:10mother should not be gassed and it was
33:14only much later that she found out about
33:16this we talk about miracles and before
33:20we get to the next section
33:21I think there's one of their remarkable
33:25thing that happened with you Eva which
33:26is when you first got to Auschwitz and
33:30there were the selections of the people
33:33that were going to live and and those
33:37who would be going to the to the to be
33:41guests and you were selected not you
33:44were not selected right so how did that
33:46happen because my mother got a transport
33:49to the test camp she got from somebody
33:52in the holding camp every Van Hollen a
33:56coat and a head and my mother gave me a
33:59coat and a hat yeah and it was a hat
34:03with a big rim and it was a bright May
34:07Day and it's this hat beta shadow over
34:11my face and so when this doctor meg and
34:14I looked at me just for a fraction of a
34:17minute
34:18he sort of us older he didn't seem a
34:21young face so I was still among the
34:25living and there were girls from 18
34:28years 19 years and living it
34:30particularly tall or looked pale of that
34:33horrific journey were taken away and
34:36killed okay can now invite the three
34:39students to join us first Billy Billy
34:43used to work for Hong Kong you back to
34:45university majoring in geography work
34:48last summer at the Asia Society really
34:50come on up Ivy idea is now working for
34:53the a society so she must be the best
34:55right
34:56and then finally Harrison Harrison
34:57you're always been interested in Jewish
35:00affairs and Israel and so forth so
35:02please join us and I will now keep quiet
35:04and leave it to the students to ask the
35:09questions here's your microphone begin
35:15IV hi good evening Eva thank you for
35:19being with us tonight
35:20so I guess to start off I understand
35:23this is your first visit to Hong Kong
35:25tell us how has it been for you
35:28well a of course I've heard a lot about
35:31Hong Kong but that didn't really
35:34much I knew it was part of China ones
35:41and it was a bad boy all I knew and I
35:46was very anxious because to everybody I
35:48said I was going to Hong Kong's I said
35:51oh how lucky your ass is is beautiful
35:53there
35:54you'll be amazed and it is to ever sub
35:58take it to the hotel and we looked out
36:01without the service second floor we have
36:04never been so high in a building and I
36:06looked out that I saw them there hills
36:09with previous houses on top Caesars
36:12enormous skyscrapers
36:15it's I said to by Francis's future
36:19ballistic acronym I imagined it how can
36:21look like that so um I think it's
36:25beautiful and I haven't seen too much
36:28yet and all the family in England who
36:32had to me I hope you have some time for
36:35sightseeing as well we want to hear how
36:37I'll cook it well I haven't had much
36:39time yet all of us too tired from the
36:42jet lag or I'm busy talking so I think
36:48it's the last point it has been talking
36:50a lot in Hong Kong it is great but I'm
36:53just coming over over my jet lag it's
36:56quite a long journey from from London
36:59the time difference is 8 hours so it's a
37:03bit difficult to sleep and be awake but
37:06I think I'm got over it now did you get
37:09a chance to try some of the Hong Kong
37:10cuisine yes we went to a oriental or
37:15Hong Kong Festival and but of course we
37:19have a lot of Chinese people in London
37:21and I love their goats and eat back know
37:29where - Yamcha actually our Sunday we
37:32went for dim sum is very good okay so
37:36shall we move on to the next question
37:38and as much as we read about about the
37:42Holocaust and accounts and what's
37:45happened there is imaginable to most of
37:47us
37:48so could you share more about the
37:50day-to-day life in the camps well so you
37:57live in huge huge barracks where in each
38:02barrack about 500 people such a woman's
38:06came I'm not talking about the men men
38:08situation was actually quite different
38:10but useless you sleep in big banks where
38:15eight people sleep in three high you
38:20have only one garment you sleep day and
38:23night in the same garment what is in
38:27suspect but in those bunks is no blanket
38:30no straw no pillow nothing but what is
38:34in it is bedbugs and lice so within the
38:38first day already you already covered in
38:41lice I'm not just hit last but body lice
38:44so it's a terrible signal scratch the
38:49whole time
38:50the bedbugs the size of your thumbnail
38:54of little lakes who cling to your skin
38:58and suck your blood and they're very
39:01difficult to get off your body when you
39:03succeed it leaves a wound which gets of
39:07us infected so within days you'll
39:10scratch you're full of wounds already in
39:14the morning when it's still dark summer
39:17and winters over five o'clock four
39:19o'clock you'll get woken up as I say
39:22eight people sleep integer as perhaps as
39:26rids of this table and so you have to
39:31sleep like spoons if one turns you all
39:34have to turn so in the dark you're
39:38called out and there is a roll call the
39:41whole camp is being counted which takes
39:44about two hours it happens very often
39:48practically every day that of course not
39:52the first week you had to camp but
39:54people who are longer there that one of
39:57your eight people in the morning doesn't
40:00wake up
40:01so this person can't come out to be
40:03counted you don't tell the doubt C's in
40:06my bank somebody has died so there's one
40:10person less to come no you're not
40:12allowed to speak to them so the camp is
40:14counting the number doesn't tally all
40:17right we have to recount so you stand
40:20there for for four hours sometimes in
40:23anyway sir
40:23it could pour this rain later when it's
40:26freezing cold
40:28you stand sir if you move your big
40:30beaten so you have to stand Stockstill
40:34there for two hours minimum then you get
40:38your breakfast
40:39which is a little mug of some liquid it
40:43could be some soup it could be some
40:46sudden leftover
40:49sour milk or anything which the Nazi
40:51said in anything as long as it's only
40:54liquid but no nourishment whatsoever
40:56then you were taken to work usually very
41:00very heavy physical work from morning to
41:05late at night without the toilet break
41:07without any food even women women works
41:13it's a women yeah but it was not really
41:16women's work it was Road building
41:18digging carrying big rocks around
41:23physical work all very very tough work
41:26without a break in the summer you had
41:30got burnt ears because you had shaven
41:33heads in the winter you have really
41:36freezing to death then in the evening
41:40usually 9 o'clock or so you go back to
41:44the barrack again you spend 2 hours
41:47roll call again the camp is being
41:50counted then you get your supper which
41:53was a big chunk of bread they ended out
41:57there was no Sunday no holiday we didn't
42:00know what day of the week it was it was
42:03all the same we didn't even know what
42:05month it was but we only recognize the
42:09season though long time no lunch no
42:14no no no no no lungs some people this
42:18chunk of bread you got some people
42:21decided at the beginning well it half in
42:24the evening and there has to keep for
42:26the day but you had nowhere to keep
42:29anything you had no bag no pockets you
42:34know the government and you couldn't it
42:35was nowhere to keep it and when you
42:37slept it's the only place where you keep
42:40it first under your head but not in the
42:44beginning when we were there people
42:45wouldn't do that yet but later when you
42:48were so hungry and the people were
42:50sleeping next to you and the bread fell
42:52out of the head the next us next to you
42:55your neighbor was eating it away so you
42:59woke up you think you have a little bit
43:01of something for breakfast no it was
43:04gone so we realized you have to eat it
43:07in the evening and just be hungry the
43:10next day I'm very curious into the day
43:12to day very often we see from maybe
43:14films and we see it the kind of routine
43:18the barrack the instruction have no
43:20narrative in a day to day do the people
43:23talk to each other or do they have
43:25conversations what is the mentality like
43:29unfortunately well when you work you're
43:31certainly not allowed to talk and roll
43:34call you're not allowed to talk and by
43:37that time you are so exhausted you fall
43:40into bed that you don't talk so there
43:42was practically no conversation and you
43:48know very much admit people didn't
43:51really look out for each other anymore
43:54no the first weeks yes but afterwards
43:58you just really try to stay alive
44:02so in the winter there's no blanket no
44:07Germany spring and there was no heating
44:09no heating where Poland was very very
44:12cold very very cold and this winter
44:15where everywhere there was actually one
44:17of the coldest with down a tech cart you
44:20were caught may 44 and then you stay
44:24there for about until January or
44:26February well Jan
44:28we were liberated 27th of January we'll
44:31be now a special Holocaust Memorial Day
44:34because is it 75 years that our street
44:39was liberated by the Russians so that's
44:42a very special year for us it is
44:47shocking to know that people stopped
44:49looking for it looking out for each
44:51other and in your case I understand your
44:53mother was with you was that
44:55relationship still as loving as it was
44:58and what was that the only thing that
45:00kept you going yes this being together
45:04is mombasa was very very very important
45:09we had some of course support from each
45:12other but as I said after my mother was
45:17selected Anna thought she had been
45:19killed I was on my own and I must say I
45:24was nearly on the point of giving up it
45:28became extremely cold but probably
45:31December lost my shoes running in the
45:35snow was barefoot my toes were open
45:39wounds blood blood was coming out and
45:43one night I felt something tickling it
45:46was a big red I was trying to suck on my
45:49toe which is not a very good experience
45:53I can tell you pretty scary a bit so
45:59yeah Raghavan despite the history of the
46:09Holocaust what is your real on Germany
46:12right now what do you think about
46:15Germany what do you feel about Germany
46:16then or now now now well you know for
46:22years even if I heard German speaking so
46:25German is my mother tongue I couldn't
46:28stand that I just closed my ears and I
46:32went away I just couldn't this terrible
46:34language so it's not a terrible language
46:37that it remembered me always on the
46:39Nazis shouting at us
46:42and I didn't want to go to Germany
46:45either and there are people who even now
46:50says they would never buy a German car
46:53or even go on holidays there or nothing
46:57to do with German anymore I was invited
47:01to go to Germany there was an American
47:04American had occupied Germany in the
47:07thing it was in the 90s there was a play
47:13about my life and Anna's life which was
47:16performed in England and the American
47:19had in the army bases they had people
47:21who were doing place business with
47:24soldiers occupied and they
47:28invited me over they were going to do
47:30the play to come there and I was first
47:34reluctant to go and but then I thought
47:38well it's so long ago I'm going to go
47:41and see and I met some German people who
47:44were working in the American army base
47:46and when they saw matter to they said
47:51the boys started to cry and he said can
47:54you ever forgive me what we did to you
47:57and then I said to him well you were not
48:01even my life you are not guilty it's
48:02nothing to do with you and then realized
48:05that Germany had moved on it wasn't the
48:10same people
48:11it wasn't analysis and then they asked
48:15me to speak in a school and I did go and
48:19the children were very very silent very
48:23suppressed in all of me and we had
48:27questions and they said as well can you
48:31ever forgive our grandparents I said no
48:34I don't forgive your grandparents but I
48:37don't hate you you are innocent and this
48:41is a big difference there no old Nazis
48:45anymore there it's a new life it's new
48:47people who realize what has happened it
48:52was a terrible
48:53terrible thing and they are extremely
48:55sorry so have now many friends in
49:00Germany I goes irregularly and speaks
49:04there as well and I must say I feel very
49:07much at home there and as well the
49:10policy Angela Merkel is the only person
49:14in the whole world who has cared about
49:17the millions of refugees who who know
49:21none of their fault have become homeless
49:24and lost their home lost their families
49:27especially Syrian and Iraqi refugees who
49:33the world don't really want to accept
49:36but Germany has taken in a million of
49:38those people so just just looking at
49:45your relationship with Germany also
49:48curious to find out your relationship
49:50with Austria so after the Anschluss you
49:54were treated very differently by your
49:55friends and neighbors did you ever go
49:57back to visit them and do you consider
50:01do you still consider yourself Austrian
50:04or more so British well for many many
50:09years that people ask me where you come
50:13from
50:14I used to say from Holland I didn't want
50:18to say I came eva's Austrian now the
50:22last few years again you know against
50:27the Austrians those Nazis are not around
50:29anymore
50:30but my mother would never set foot in
50:32Austria she said she sewers out she
50:35didn't want us I'm never ever going to
50:37go back there and I must say when my
50:41youngest daughter was a teenager she
50:44wanted to go there to see her hoots
50:47where we came from and I did take her
50:50with my husband we went and it was for
50:54me like a tourist who didn't know
50:57anybody had no connection to anybody and
51:00I loved the scenery because I grew up in
51:04the mountains and the lake it's a
51:05beautiful country
51:07but in Vienna I must say I didn't feel
51:09at home and remembered where we lived
51:13and I felt really uneasy but they did
51:17now last year I did a documentary for
51:21the Austrian television with somebody
51:23and he took me to all the places as well
51:27to say this came from her father was
51:30murdered and all that and I went to the
51:33house where the paintings were hidden
51:35and I met some very very wonderful
51:37people as well and again most of those
51:41Austrians we are very very sorry for
51:44what has happened but nevertheless the
51:46policy is they don't want any refugees
51:50they haven't really learned enough and
51:53that would certainly it wouldn't go
51:56there back for my pleasure I wouldn't go
51:58and spend the holidays there I remember
52:02watching a the play and you mentioned in
52:06the video that after the liberation and
52:10you didn't have to change the cash to
52:14get on the bus and then to later revisit
52:17the house which when you finally got
52:19there he was found that it was left
52:21untouched it was love exactly what it
52:24was like when you got thanks how did it
52:26feel to be like that it felt especially
52:30at first when I didn't know yet said my
52:33father and was I wouldn't come back
52:36it was empty you know I felt where our
52:40hopes are coming back soon
52:42but after I heard said they would never
52:44come back I I couldn't sleep and had to
52:49sleep so but I told you had nightmares
52:50all the time and it was really really
52:54very very unpleasant to live there but
52:57we had no other possibility to goes
52:59overhead to stay there but it was not
53:02not a pleasant experience at all so you
53:07know it wasn't just the suffering in the
53:09camp but there was a lot of hardship
53:12afterwards to be able to cope with your
53:15loss
53:16and not only the loss but to you
53:20my family has lived in Ostia for
53:22generations and I felt Austrian before I
53:27left the country and you lose your your
53:30homeland you lose where you belong to
53:32and I can't understand know you now is a
53:36problem is our brexit some of my
53:40grandchildren and one daughter has taken
53:43on German nationality because you know
53:47they say with a British passport you
53:50will have difficulty traveling but with
53:53a German because if your parents or
53:55grandparents were Austrian or Germans
53:58you can get their passports the
54:01nationality and evers very shocked when
54:04now then before I left one of my
54:07daughter said I'm going to get an
54:09Austrian passport as at what she said
54:12well but be handier I said but you know
54:15that this who was out there but that
54:19what they want to do
54:20I mean she's over 60 years I can't tell
54:23anymore what to do you don't like it I
54:27don't like it I don't like it
54:29I'm surprised that I haven't got more
54:32feelings they didn't go through it well
54:39you can help you can be a German you can
54:41be Austrian can't be British but it's
54:44true it's indisputable that your family
54:46suffered because you are Jewish so did
54:50the Holocaust change that or well do you
54:53still feel as strongly about your Jewish
54:56identity after it or did it actually
54:59change it for you
55:01no I feel and an anchor for man
55:05emigrated to England and 1938 after the
55:09occupation he was an expert in perspex
55:13it was a forerunner of plastic and so
55:16that's why he got a permit to go into a
55:18factory to help them develop seas and
55:21they had the son of two years and it was
55:25a small town in the north of England and
55:27he converted to the Anglican religion
55:32and my father
55:34said I'm never going to speak to you
55:36again he said you're a born Jew and just
55:38because you're persecuted YouTube don't
55:41give up your birth birth who you are and
55:45I feel as well very very strong at you I
55:49would never ever convert or change it
55:52I'm not very religious I don't keep a
55:55lot of things I go occasionally to
55:58synagogue which i think is wonderful I
56:00enjoy it but I don't have so much free
56:03time I'm always traveling around but you
56:08know I think we are very you know you'll
56:11be mention about six million but you
56:14know I've been speaking a school we have
56:17a lot of Muslims in in England and has
56:20been sometimes in Muslim schools and I
56:23tell them and they always ask me about
56:25Palestine and Israel and I said to them
56:28do you know how many Jews are in the
56:30world she said yes
56:33200 million how many palace today how
56:37many Muslims a bit more perhaps 300
56:41million and no we have 16 million Jets
56:45all in the whole world it's always 60
56:48million and we are very very education
56:53is for us something very very important
56:56we try to give our children the best
56:58education possible and we have achieved
57:02you know that Isaac 240 Jewish people
57:07got Nobel Prizes we are very very keen
57:12of in medicine in in architecture in art
57:17we are we have achieved with a few
57:20people writers we are very very
57:25intellectual people and I am very very
57:29proud to be a Jew just a number for
57:32every bee expert correct me if I'm wrong
57:35the Jewish number of Jewish people on
57:37earth before the war and then after the
57:41six million died perished only about
57:44five years ago did they reach
57:47the same level as the pre-world war ii
57:49number still lower still still lower
57:56today than 1948 1938 yeah okay well the
58:01place six billion is a lot of people if
58:04you are only I mean after the survey how
58:08many whether left eight millions perhaps
58:11eight million Jews and to replace six
58:15billion is difficult to eight million
58:17people to do well then clear it can
58:20react set out okay if the student you
58:23have many more question that the three
58:25student before we open to the public
58:27yep I do have a burning question
58:28obviously in the earlier part of the
58:32dialogue you were talking about you know
58:33things have changed in terms of the the
58:36light-hearted side of things the
58:37flirting and all that that's things I've
58:40changed and in terms of attitude
58:41societal norms and in terms of the youth
58:44today one part of it is that our
58:48obviously our attention span is shorter
58:50our memory of the past is limited by
58:53nature our interest in the past is
58:55limited to the fact that we actually
58:57study history or we're in such a course
59:00what do you feel about the youth today
59:02in terms of the lack of if not the lack
59:05of historical literacy and awareness the
59:08drive to learn about the past well
59:11history is not such an important subject
59:14anymore
59:15because there are so many new subjects
59:18including computer science at SIG's like
59:22that many of those subjects now which is
59:26a saying it's very dangerous to drop art
59:29as well
59:30in many schools now artists sort of a
59:33subject with this put aside in America
59:39sometimes schools even don't teach
59:42anymore handwriting I think this is a
59:46terrible terrible thing this is very
59:50important for some and it's not just
59:52science science as a different part of
59:54the brain working but it is a arts which
59:58elevate people
1:00:00say it a different way so I hope people
1:00:04will realize that become drops or
1:00:07subject it is some very very important
1:00:10to learn those things and not just
1:00:12concentrate on digital science and
1:00:15things like that I can do computer they
1:00:19do my mobile phone
1:00:20but when recommend of and I have any
1:00:23problem Magan daughter helps me and she
1:00:26said but oh my have told you see Simon
1:00:28sis I said I don't seem as I said three
1:00:32dots means is that this arrow means this
1:00:34I can take all this I can make an
1:00:37Instagram account for you it is
1:00:41something with sub you see even toddlers
1:00:44going around with a mobile phone and
1:00:46with and doing things on the computer
1:00:49and you know my daughter's went to type
1:00:53right in classes six months and they
1:00:55still couldn't do blood type anything
1:00:57and also children do type writing on the
1:01:01computer blind without learning it I
1:01:04don't understand that it's you know with
1:01:07ten figures I do it with two figures now
1:01:11we do you know it's a complete different
1:01:16world but I think we have to go back to
1:01:20the old success where languages is
1:01:22important it's a completely different
1:01:24part of your brain who has to be used as
1:01:27well very good shall we ever Glen open
1:01:32to the audience here I particularly
1:01:34encourage the students to raise your
1:01:36hand if somebody else was doesn't look
1:01:38like a student and student raise your
1:01:39hand here at the a society the student
1:01:42go first okay but the first one I
1:01:43believe is may not be a student go ahead
1:01:49hi I come from Soviet Union or X Soviet
1:01:52Union and I come from Azerbaijan
1:01:55Azerbaijan is a Muslim part of Soviet
1:01:57Union so not many people from Azerbaijan
1:01:59were drafted to war during the world war
1:02:02but my grandfather died he was a colonel
1:02:05he was killed by nazis later on in after
1:02:09effect of the war he was poisoned by the
1:02:11poison watermelon that was left behind
1:02:14by
1:02:14servants anyway so that the story is
1:02:17very important for me what you're
1:02:18telling me and Azerbaijan had a lot of
1:02:20Jewish population and we still have the
1:02:23largest mountain Jew population in all
1:02:26of Soviet Union
1:02:27they're called Gorski Jews anyway we
1:02:29were always very welcoming toward
1:02:31refugees and even German refugees were
1:02:33an and all my best teachers at school
1:02:36thanks to whom I'm here today
1:02:39my English teacher math teacher history
1:02:41teacher were always Jewish ladies
1:02:42because Jewish people were most highly
1:02:45educated as as you said cultured so when
1:02:48you already a fifteen-year-old like my
1:02:50son today are being sent to the camp and
1:02:52your mother was there a sense of hope
1:02:56did you know for how long they lock you
1:02:58up did you hope you will come out or you
1:03:01just dumped yourself down and work and
1:03:03say that it's gonna be very short time
1:03:05I'm gonna come out healthy
1:03:07it's a nightmare or you knew it so it's
1:03:10over I'm not gonna make it what made you
1:03:12go out come out well when you have put
1:03:15on transport after arrest you didn't
1:03:19really know where you were going so
1:03:21where some camps as well as a well as
1:03:23well labor camps where people were
1:03:25working Jewish people as well so and but
1:03:30then the vert camps as well at the
1:03:32blinkin in Poland where it's a whole
1:03:34transport whoever you wear any age went
1:03:39straight to the gas chamber you had no
1:03:42chance whatsoever so we didn't know
1:03:45where we were going to send be sent so
1:03:47but in the Train we still hope perhaps
1:03:51it will be a labor camp but when we were
1:03:54sent to Auschwitz we were starting to
1:03:57because we knew people we're guests
1:03:59there we were afraid we might be killed
1:04:02at arrival but when that didn't happen
1:04:06so we were still amongst the living
1:04:09we hoped perhaps of all was going to end
1:04:13we still you you can't live if you have
1:04:17no hope because then you just die anyway
1:04:20so you had to keep your hope going the
1:04:25way of course some people who
1:04:27just couldn't stand it any longer the
1:04:30degradation the hard work the hunger and
1:04:33wanted to commit suicide but even that
1:04:37was not possible really you had not a
1:04:41piece of lace you had not a knife you
1:04:43had nothing to commit to yourself
1:04:45the only thing what you could do was to
1:04:48show yourself alike against electrified
1:04:51barbed wire which I must say a thing
1:04:56I've seen three times people do exist
1:04:58and they must have been really very
1:05:02desperate because it was highly
1:05:04electrified and you saw the people
1:05:08bursting into flames and they were stuck
1:05:12stuck onto the wire and the terrible
1:05:15screams we heard you can imagine how
1:05:18desperate as people must have been to do
1:05:21this but you know as long as there is
1:05:24life I think there is hope there's a
1:05:27question from a student on my left so hi
1:05:30yeah I'm a student um so we've talked a
1:05:33lot about Anne Frank and your brother
1:05:35and also about death camps I was
1:05:37wondering if you could also tell us a
1:05:39bit about how you moved on from your
1:05:41experience after the war after the war
1:05:44how do you move on what kept you going
1:05:48well say after the war I felt actually
1:05:53more depressed and I was in the camp
1:05:56because in the camper had to use all my
1:05:59strengths and my will to survive but
1:06:04afterwards I thought life without my
1:06:07family is useless you know I was really
1:06:10really depressed and especially I hated
1:06:13everybody and and that is what Otto told
1:06:17me you know if you hate you become a
1:06:20miserable person and the people you hate
1:06:23say don't suffer from your hate because
1:06:25I hate all the Germans and Germans
1:06:27didn't feel bad but I felt bad and so he
1:06:32taught me a lot you know he said go out
1:06:36in the world you will see there some
1:06:38wonderful people around
1:06:40and not everybody was bad and it was -
1:06:44you know the people the people who work
1:06:46it's a resistance who helped people who
1:06:49fought the Nazis and this is Kings their
1:06:54life risking their life to keep us in
1:06:56hiding to keep us safe there was a lot
1:07:01of good people as well and you have to
1:07:02keep this in mind always the world even
1:07:06if things look very very very dark it's
1:07:08not all bad and you have to hold on to
1:07:12the good things there's a student in the
1:07:14middle please yeah so the liberation of
1:07:23our switch happened nearly 75 years ago
1:07:25so has your memory of your experience at
1:07:28the camp changed throughout the years or
1:07:30is it still a strong no I remember every
1:07:34every little detail but it doesn't hurt
1:07:38so much anymore you know I spoke some
1:07:43time ago in Germany in Vemma this was a
1:07:46Cappy capital as a scent of Germany
1:07:50where all the good and Sheila's poems
1:07:53welcome and lots of scientists was a
1:07:56very intellectual city and that was the
1:07:59new government of Germany and a spokes
1:08:02in a castle and told my story and the
1:08:07next day I got a letter from a woman who
1:08:10wrote to me she was there with her
1:08:13daughter listening to my talk and when
1:08:17they came back they were still talking
1:08:20about what they've heard and the
1:08:23daughter asks a mother 15 year-old girl
1:08:26what did grandpa do in the war and the
1:08:31mother said he was a Nazi he killed many
1:08:34many people he fought in Russia and he
1:08:40murdered many people in Russia but as
1:08:43well of the way in Poland and things
1:08:45like said and the daughter became very
1:08:48very upset she said
1:08:50terrible that is my family and I don't
1:08:53want to know and she wanted to run away
1:08:55and it took sue the night and the
1:08:58motherhood in this letter to me
1:09:00explained her my father was a teacher
1:09:03before the war but he was taken into the
1:09:08army and then somehow he became a Nazi
1:09:12and when he came back he couldn't
1:09:17anymore function properly he occupied
1:09:20himself only with philosophy and and
1:09:24religion and I had no father he never
1:09:28smiled at me he never played with me and
1:09:34she said it was a terrible experience
1:09:36but precinct me that it had came in the
1:09:40open yet never dare to speak to her
1:09:42husband or say had the son as well who
1:09:46have father was but now it's in the open
1:09:49and she hopes that her children will
1:09:51understand now and ever singing a long
1:09:54time before and applied to her and I go
1:09:58to her you know I think your father was
1:10:01not a bad person
1:10:03he was just forced to do things which he
1:10:08really didn't want to do and this is
1:10:10really I think what happened with the
1:10:12German population you know they were
1:10:17sickening and they were pretending it
1:10:20was a good thing they were telling that
1:10:22it was all the fault of the Jew said
1:10:24lost of the first world war and she
1:10:27started to believe six propaganda is a
1:10:29very very important media to influence
1:10:33people and I met this fellow man from
1:10:35Vietnam who came to me once after my
1:10:38talk and I didn't know he was with them
1:10:42and he I was crying and I said are you
1:10:45Jewish have you lost family he said no I
1:10:47was a soldier in Vietnam and I have
1:10:50nightmares
1:10:51I did terrible things that burned
1:10:53villages with Vietnamese children but it
1:10:57was an order had to do that and you know
1:11:01so I realized not all those people who
1:11:04did
1:11:04those terrible clams were evil but it
1:11:07was the propaganda and sort of it was
1:11:12the singing it you have to do and people
1:11:14followed and so we have to reconsider
1:11:17and after that day I realized I don't
1:11:21hate the German people I hate sand Nazis
1:11:24who were planning Zee killing of six
1:11:28million Jews but the people who were
1:11:31dragged along to do it I have actually
1:11:35forgiven and after i forgiven I felt a
1:11:38much happier person okay there's a
1:11:41question seryeong explanation but the
1:11:44thing it was important thank you for
1:11:46your question it's a question there and
1:11:48then I have some questions from we have
1:11:50another about hundred people at the
1:11:52Miller theater up upstairs so I'm going
1:11:55to ask some of the questions after this
1:11:56one you have to wait your turn I know
1:11:58somebody or some of you have been keep
1:11:59raising our hands don't worry
1:12:02unless time's up before your turn
1:12:05there's two hands at the back and then
1:12:07the lady on the sixth row okay
1:12:08the gentleman at the young gentleman
1:12:10here shortly after the war ended and
1:12:13when you were liberated how were party
1:12:15people treat you who did what did they
1:12:19treat you differently or did you treat
1:12:20you with respect or but were they
1:12:23treating you hostile or with Hamas no so
1:12:26they're definitely not hostile
1:12:28but you didn't really want to know so
1:12:30they're not interested to hear she said
1:12:33we all suffered so you suffered perhaps
1:12:35a bit more than me but they were not
1:12:38interested so they were I must say in
1:12:40Poland for instance when Jewish people
1:12:43came back not said many unfortunately
1:12:45and then other people had moved into
1:12:48their homes and had taken over all their
1:12:51possessions and the one that their homes
1:12:53back they were murdered so of us I don't
1:12:57know if you know about after after the
1:12:59war when somewhere partisans had fought
1:13:03with the Russians and they came back to
1:13:05claim their property they were murdered
1:13:08there were a lot of murders in Poland by
1:13:11repair by Polish people it's special
1:13:15spirit burdening survivors
1:13:18okay here's a question from the students
1:13:21upstairs what kind of work can the
1:13:23society especially the young people do
1:13:25to reduce discrimination what can young
1:13:30people do to discriminate to minimize
1:13:33discrimination well I think that this
1:13:35question to the young people here ok ok
1:13:42we'll go on there's two questions at our
1:13:44back yeah so I've been throughout with
1:13:49the past summer so they charge for
1:13:51toilets they sell like so veneers
1:13:53they're like seemingly trying to profit
1:13:55from this kind of dark history so what
1:13:57are your views on this kind of dark
1:13:59tourism they charge you for everything
1:14:02in Auschwitz what do you think you think
1:14:05they should charge you to see the plays
1:14:08and use the toilet and what have you
1:14:10there well you know it's a it's a very
1:14:15very expensive thing to keep those camps
1:14:18going
1:14:19they have thousands of employees guides
1:14:23they have to maintain the saying it has
1:14:26become I mean I don't like I've been
1:14:29back I never wanted to go back but I
1:14:31went three times back once with a Dutch
1:14:34television then with a German television
1:14:37and the last time we had Japanese
1:14:39television group and each time I found
1:14:43it less what it really used to be and it
1:14:48has become a tourist place people take
1:14:53photos people smile and take oh let's
1:14:57Texas so that stands there and they want
1:15:00to say and then they go and so slide
1:15:02it's home I've been to this camp and
1:15:04then come one man said I've already been
1:15:07to this command this command this guy
1:15:09still have to do this at this camp you
1:15:11know it's it's I don't like this idea on
1:15:14the other hand people who do go there it
1:15:17makes a big impression to them and
1:15:20perhaps it is necessary but it cost a
1:15:23lot of money to maintain it so of course
1:15:26the Polish government doesn't want to
1:15:29pay for that so they have to
1:15:31some money for the cost the only can I
1:15:35interrupt elegantly so there I've seen
1:15:38your in your interview that once you
1:15:40mentioned how for example the book end
1:15:42Frank it it omits the gory details and
1:15:45it talks about the flares and other
1:15:47relationships and all that are you
1:15:49afraid of one day without the living
1:15:52history elements of talking about the
1:15:54Holocaust that eventually these true
1:15:58accounts of history increasingly become
1:16:00desensitized and that people forget the
1:16:02truth tragic news of it yes it you know
1:16:09unfortunately there will be other events
1:16:11happening which people might be tragic
1:16:14which people will remember and so yeah I
1:16:19mean the Jewish people remember the
1:16:21whole history we celebrate our time
1:16:24celebrate remember our time in Egypt we
1:16:27remember our time in Babylon when we
1:16:29were persecuted we remember what
1:16:32happened in in England when Jewish
1:16:34papers were persecuted so we do remember
1:16:37our sings but the general public as
1:16:39saying we'll move on the lady student on
1:16:44the sixth row third from the middle yeah
1:16:47I was wondering how you met your husband
1:16:50and what role he played in like your
1:16:53path of recovery when I finished school
1:16:59I went to I was going to be a
1:17:01photographer and I went to England to to
1:17:06become an apprentice enough in a
1:17:09photographic studio and I lived in a
1:17:13little boarding house where that a young
1:17:16man who had come from Israel to study
1:17:20economics and you know it's at times the
1:17:23English people didn't like foreigners so
1:17:27it couldn't really make friends with
1:17:29English people so we were friendly
1:17:31together we were both foreigners and so
1:17:35we went for long walks but we didn't
1:17:38tell each other who Vee really where I
1:17:40told him ever starts which I wasn't
1:17:42he told behaviour Israeli which he
1:17:45wasn't
1:17:46and we didn't talk about what had
1:17:48happened to our lives
1:17:50and but we liked each other and he asked
1:17:54me to marry him which I eventually did
1:17:57and only then did really tell who we
1:18:01really we're so we were married for 63
1:18:04years but we had taken a big gamble
1:18:07because we didn't really know each other
1:18:09and you had three daughters we have
1:18:11three daughters at five gets in there
1:18:13now very good
1:18:15okay the student here all right so since
1:18:19we're all students here I just like to
1:18:20know how was school like after being
1:18:22liberated our school life after I grant
1:18:27back again you know I went back to
1:18:32school I was behind three years of
1:18:36studies but it was a very my brother had
1:18:40been injured school when we came to
1:18:43Holland and then of course we had two
1:18:45Jewish children had to leave school but
1:18:48the headmaster was very person
1:18:51resistance work as well he was actually
1:18:53arrested and he took in all the children
1:18:56who had been in the war as well from
1:18:58Indonesia Indonesia was a Dutch colony
1:19:01and many many people had fled after the
1:19:05war from there and came to live in
1:19:08Holland so they were sort of refugees as
1:19:11well and he took in all those children
1:19:14and we had special lessons to be able to
1:19:17catch up but we didn't talk to each
1:19:21other but we had movie where where we
1:19:24had been but has happened in the past
1:19:26there was no talk about it because when
1:19:29I donated the paintings from my browser
1:19:31to the resistance museum so where some
1:19:34people who had come who will miss me at
1:19:37schools at resistance mean found people
1:19:39who had survived and we talked to them
1:19:42and it turned out that some we're
1:19:44survivors from camps and I said what you
1:19:47have been in camp I never knew it when I
1:19:49told him I'd been in Auschwitz he said I
1:19:52never knew your pity now it
1:19:54we were school friends but we didn't
1:19:56talk about our past
1:19:59the lady student there and then on the
1:20:02left afterwards and then a gentleman who
1:20:05is obviously not a student but it's okay
1:20:07yeah young lady please you mentioned how
1:20:11many people stopped looking out for each
1:20:13other in the camps do you think this
1:20:15sparked conflicts between people it's
1:20:19it's a spark conflict between the can
1:20:22mates you didn't you don't you stop
1:20:24caring for each other no you know Viva
1:20:27we've had much too busy just to stay
1:20:30alive when we came back from our work
1:20:33with a two-tire there was no
1:20:35conversation the only thing we did talk
1:20:38about which was food but we would eat if
1:20:41ever we got out again you know we were
1:20:44completely obsessed with food but
1:20:48otherwise service really severe of
1:20:50course Orthodox really Orthodox Jewish
1:20:53people who paid all the time
1:20:56but I mean we did pray to God to stop
1:21:00this but he didn't so that's rather not
1:21:03so all from religious people came out
1:21:07like me I came out of the camp a
1:21:09definitely unbeliever I didn't believe
1:21:13as if we were supposed to be God's
1:21:15chosen people and even when I go now to
1:21:18synagogue with sank the whole time God
1:21:22for saving us for helping us for making
1:21:26life possible for us and I say I pray
1:21:30and I say under - no it's not - you
1:21:33didn't say first you didn't help us you
1:21:35didn't look after us but the players are
1:21:38thinking all the time how God looks
1:21:41after us and as I know your didn't the
1:21:46young lady over here and then the
1:21:47gentleman but I'll when you found out
1:21:50that you were liberated and you were
1:21:53free what was as a teenager what was the
1:21:56first thing you wanted to do was it to
1:21:58eat well was it to sleep well well the
1:22:01to eat eat eat really if you starve for
1:22:05so long you know food was the most
1:22:08important thing just eat
1:22:11anything a gentleman
1:22:14thank you mrs. floss for your very
1:22:17interesting talk in fact my question is
1:22:20for my daughter who's in the middle of
1:22:22theater and she just emailed me the
1:22:25question but the question really was but
1:22:28did your did did your religion help you
1:22:34at all in the camps and now you sort of
1:22:36answer that just recently isn't one or
1:22:38two of the last questions but was there
1:22:40any comfort given to you by by your
1:22:42religion no I'm afraid not not at all
1:22:46not at all but you know I wasn't really
1:22:49very religious so I think Orthodox
1:22:52people perhaps they accepted their faith
1:22:55I don't know it's difficult I think it's
1:22:59difficult but the rare Orthodox people
1:23:02who became completely unbelievers and
1:23:04there were unbelievers who became
1:23:06religious after the experience you know
1:23:09I don't know it depended how how you
1:23:13felt about this terrible experience yes
1:23:17but I certainly didn't help me right
1:23:22thank you
1:23:23we have some questions from upstairs
1:23:25again what helped you survived Auschwitz
1:23:28what helped you survived Auschwitz my
1:23:32step and stubbornness I think you're
1:23:34stubborn that's it yeah ever met Thomas
1:23:36so ox to go with say oh vegetable
1:23:40everybody said to me you go with your
1:23:43head through the wall and I do you know
1:23:46I don't give up anything
1:23:48so doesn't mean that young people should
1:23:50develop that characteristic yeah I think
1:23:53it helped me but it's it's not always so
1:23:57pleasant I suppose some people don't
1:23:58like it but your husband obviously at
1:24:01least bit more with it yes he quite
1:24:05liked it it makes the decisions
1:24:08I decided things oh okay it's just like
1:24:12my family by the way my wife tried to
1:24:14come in here I told her to come here and
1:24:16she got here and saw the full she can
1:24:18find a seat so she went home how did you
1:24:21feel when you solve those dying around
1:24:24you you saw a lot of people die around
1:24:27of course of course not only did I see
1:24:30them I had to take them out of the
1:24:33perfect for this carried them out
1:24:36can is amount of force yeah yeah what
1:24:39went through you what what do you think
1:24:41or you didn't you block it off well you
1:24:45think is that going to be me perhaps
1:24:48tomorrow it's it's horrible it's
1:24:51horrible and I had a lot of nightmares
1:24:54about this
1:24:55we couldn't even close their eyes
1:24:57because they eyelids were frozen your
1:25:01eyelids were float frozen Wow well
1:25:05there's two question of the same nature
1:25:07one is too personal I don't want to ask
1:25:09that the other one is were they sexual
1:25:11abuse in the camps she says is Mangala
1:25:17it have taken women and abuse them
1:25:23section that was a terrible doctor very
1:25:26venomous who had just conducted two
1:25:29selections and you had to be concerned
1:25:32about him what yeah that is that
1:25:34actually quite a few books about people
1:25:37who had to be helped it enabled by him
1:25:40and abused by him right there's a
1:25:43question about a war to the left you
1:25:48mentioned I correct me if I'm wrong you
1:25:51mentioned that you were betrayed and
1:25:52then arrested can you tell us more about
1:25:54that
1:25:54how would you betrayed who betrayed you
1:25:59it was a Dutch nurse who was a double
1:26:02agent she pretended she was a member of
1:26:06sea resistance but she really worked
1:26:10rosa dances so it's a nurse okay
1:26:20sympathizing mister Nazis and you got
1:26:23five guilders from every person you
1:26:27betrayed and how many people did that
1:26:30nurse betray over two hundred I just
1:26:36want to add something here so
1:26:38of course we have this one time that we
1:26:41can speak with the even there's so much
1:26:42in her story in a period of two years
1:26:44when she was hiding she had to move to
1:26:47seven different places so she was in
1:26:51seven different hiding places before she
1:26:54was ultimately arrested and taken to
1:26:56Auschwitz and just one two about the
1:27:00food which somebody asks her when the
1:27:04Russians came and they left again
1:27:07the left say had shot a horse you know
1:27:12there were a lot of horses but the horse
1:27:15was shot and it was lying on the snow
1:27:18and the Polish woman said to me that was
1:27:21very very early free I mean we could
1:27:24have gone but of course we couldn't
1:27:25because we were we had nothing
1:27:27she said get a knife from from the kids
1:27:30are from the Nazis and we are going to
1:27:33cut this horse up and we're going to eat
1:27:36it and we did we cut it open and ahead
1:27:41the Russian had it shot because it was
1:27:44pregnant so we got there was a little
1:27:48horse in it and yet we didn't eat but we
1:27:53ate the horse meat
1:27:54not bad not wonderfully cooked but the
1:27:58bit did hot water
1:27:59we ate said so hungry we we're okay I
1:28:03have another question here what is your
1:28:05most profound memory of Anne Frank mmm
1:28:11but she was very very amusing
1:28:15she was always one that says sent up to
1:28:18be center of attention and he was a big
1:28:20story teller and she had to and a big
1:28:26chatterbox very awful she had to stand
1:28:28behind this in school and right-handed
1:28:31lines I'm not going to talk so much in
1:28:33class so a big chatterbox very active
1:28:37and and she always wanted to be the
1:28:41center and our where we lived on the
1:28:44apartment there were steps and she
1:28:46always said on front of the steps and
1:28:48tried to get a crowd of children around
1:28:50her and she told her story
1:28:53so even when she was 12 years old she
1:28:55was already had a radio vivid fantasy
1:29:00okay here's a question is it more
1:29:02important to maintain peace or can
1:29:05violence be justified as a means of
1:29:08fighting against injustice well I don't
1:29:13know you have to try to get things which
1:29:19are wrong to negotiate in a good way
1:29:23negotiation is always better sand using
1:29:27arms or violence there's a question from
1:29:32a gentleman at a back hi
1:29:36after you were liberated from Auschwitz
1:29:39I'm pretty sure you were financially
1:29:42unstable so did you have to work to
1:29:45support your family and what kind of
1:29:49occupation did you have out the use of
1:29:52you must be financially broke after the
1:29:55war how do you support yourself
1:29:58I suppose Otto the father of Anne Frank
1:30:01was still alive and that's your
1:30:03stepfather yeah but he divided for the
1:30:05family no not not I mean he actually
1:30:08lost everything as well but we got back
1:30:14hours of apartment which was not really
1:30:16our part but just rented but we had four
1:30:20homes there which my mother let say the
1:30:25bedroom as he slept with her husband to
1:30:28two ladies and my mother cooked for them
1:30:31in the evening and my mother took a job
1:30:34so she had never worked before there was
1:30:37quite funny she worked in an office
1:30:39she had never typed or anything but she
1:30:42was a very intelligent woman so she had
1:30:45to make the bills accounts and she came
1:30:50home every day with a big bag with paper
1:30:52which she had spoiled home typing and
1:30:55she didn't dare to throw it away in the
1:30:58office because she would have been
1:31:00sacked she wasted so much paper so she
1:31:03brought it home and threw it away at
1:31:05home
1:31:05but you know she just been the worst
1:31:08chaos you know there was some the bosses
1:31:11didn't show I didn't look exactly what
1:31:14she was doing so they didn't realize she
1:31:16was completely an experienced as a
1:31:19secretary I like some of the younger
1:31:23students please was there any profession
1:31:30you wanted to pursue before the
1:31:31Holocaust and if so did you pursue it
1:31:33after the Holocaust before the camp the
1:31:40death yeah yeah did you have some idea
1:31:43what you want to do in life and what did
1:31:45you try to do that after you got out of
1:31:48the death camp I love the flower secure
1:31:51lips you know Holland is very famous for
1:31:53the beautiful tulip fields and I wanted
1:31:56to become a chili planter which is a
1:31:59family job you know you inherited from
1:32:02you from your parents and grandparents
1:32:05and so on so it was just an idea
1:32:08no I never never did said actually the
1:32:12gentleman in front I thank you very much
1:32:15for the great presentation Mike my
1:32:19question is a bit esoteric you lived in
1:32:22many places I grew up was born in Odessa
1:32:26then I moved to LA I lived in New York
1:32:30Ukraine Ukraine very large population
1:32:34yeah
1:32:35and I've lived six years in Hong Kong
1:32:37very international place the young
1:32:39adults here are very representative of
1:32:42it I grew up with Muslim friends black
1:32:45friends Mexican friends all kinds of
1:32:48people we grew up in an environment
1:32:49where we can openly talk about our
1:32:52uniqueness which makes our which is our
1:32:54culture and we could point it out we
1:32:56could tease each other we can make fun
1:32:58of each other and we see a lot of
1:32:59comedians doing it and you know they do
1:33:03it on Netflix or they do it on various
1:33:04shows like HBO
1:33:06at what point when you know when race
1:33:12becomes a problem is it sometimes starts
1:33:15at a very small subconscious level
1:33:17joking becomes
1:33:19joking and it turns into to racism so at
1:33:24what point do you feel like we should
1:33:26appreciate our each other's differences
1:33:28and at what point do you think it's not
1:33:31funny anymore and we should understand
1:33:32when to back down well I can't
1:33:36understand why people have to be the
1:33:39same
1:33:39I think people from different countries
1:33:42from different aces life is so much more
1:33:46interesting if we mix and accept each
1:33:49other and the same with religion you
1:33:52know if you have different religions and
1:33:55you exchange what is your belief in so I
1:33:58think that's the best things wonderful
1:34:01and that really can't understand where
1:34:04people have to dislike each other and
1:34:07hate each other and kill each other if
1:34:09said from a different background or from
1:34:12a different country something I really
1:34:14can't understand and I hope that
1:34:18eventually I mean now people travel so
1:34:21much more as I say as a chat in Vienna I
1:34:24had never seen a black person now in our
1:34:28apartment blocks half the people are
1:34:31from Z from Africa from India from all
1:34:34over the world and you don't even notice
1:34:36anymore it's of a different colour and
1:34:39we visit each other and we speak to a
1:34:42browser and we take each other's food
1:34:44with rosette and like it or not like it
1:34:47but you know this is how the world
1:34:50should be we are all human beings all
1:34:54perhaps descended from monkeys and you
1:34:58know we have one big family last two
1:35:02questions we are already 30 minutes over
1:35:03time those two have been raising their
1:35:06hand all along so those two about a
1:35:08window the last two please yeah so in
1:35:13the world war two the Japanese set up
1:35:16also a concentration camps in China and
1:35:19murdered a lot of Chinese and so far the
1:35:22Japanese government haven't apologized
1:35:24or amid the fact that they murdered like
1:35:27a lot of Chinese in China so what's your
1:35:30view on this matter
1:35:32well that is again a particular Japanese
1:35:36thing because there is it the king the
1:35:41emperor is like God and if God said this
1:35:45should do something said this law for
1:35:48them that's why I sings a saying it's
1:35:51not necessary to apologize but ever I
1:35:55think that's of course wrong because the
1:35:57Empire's not God and they shouldn't have
1:35:59just done those terrible things and they
1:36:02should admit sets of a guilty but no the
1:36:05Austrians the Austrian we're worse Nazis
1:36:09and the Germans and they say they were
1:36:12victims themselves which is of course
1:36:14not - so you know that this attitude
1:36:18should be changed and they should
1:36:20realize that if you have done something
1:36:22wrong
1:36:22who ever told you to do it that you
1:36:25should apologize for it last question
1:36:28yeah thank you I was just wondering
1:36:32because as oestrus was liberated by the
1:36:34Soviet Union in the Russians but living
1:36:37in the West afterwards there's a lot of
1:36:39tension with the Cold War and everything
1:36:40and there's a lot of controversy around
1:36:42stolen in the Soviets today what was
1:36:44your opinion living in the West on the
1:36:48Soviet Union as you were liberated but
1:36:50there's obviously controversy
1:36:51surrounding it what do you think about
1:36:53the Russians and the Soviet Union they
1:36:55liberated you but there's a lot of
1:36:57problem between the East and or between
1:36:59Russia and the rest of the Western world
1:37:01what do you think well I personally
1:37:05defin definitely hundred percent
1:37:08definitely owe my life to the Russians
1:37:10and her and I traveled for months with
1:37:17Russia and five months even and have
1:37:20been back three times in Russia
1:37:22and the people of wonderful wonderful
1:37:26people they love their country they
1:37:29sacrifice their lives are some amazing
1:37:32stories about when when st. Petersburg
1:37:38was it seized many many millions of
1:37:42people died that they didn't give up
1:37:44they didn't surrender
1:37:46the same the better of starting out saw
1:37:48some fantastic field the leader Stalin
1:37:51was a war criminal
1:37:52he was terrible and but he was a good
1:37:57general I must say when stunning God was
1:38:01surrounded by the Nazis he suddenly had
1:38:04to have the oral hate already a big big
1:38:07army ready to help the people to
1:38:10liberate starting her the city start
1:38:13again and so he was a good general and
1:38:17if without Circassians I think Europe
1:38:21would have been lost I'm pretty sure of
1:38:24that
1:38:25so communism a thing was a good thing at
1:38:29the time for the Russians Israel the
1:38:32kibbutz how the did set is as well a
1:38:37sort of communism I think to build the
1:38:40country up to be equal to share
1:38:43everything is a good principle but then
1:38:47you have to come back to a normal way of
1:38:50life which Russia has done but of course
1:38:54I still have a it's not the communist
1:38:56country anymore the contrary it's a very
1:38:59rich country with a lot of very very
1:39:01it's millionaires who buy properties all
1:39:04over Europe but I think the animosity of
1:39:09America against Russia is a very bad
1:39:12thing you know Ava was in my over here
1:39:18my office and there was a picture of
1:39:21Putin and somebody you know that's me
1:39:24anyway and Ava was very surprised to see
1:39:28Putin and and I was impressed why they
1:39:31upset and that is the I forgot the
1:39:34Russian was what was the people that
1:39:36liberated many of you and so your
1:39:39thankfulness should continue and if said
1:39:42I should wouldn't have advanced so
1:39:45quickly you know many many more millions
1:39:47worth of perished well I hope that
1:39:50everyone got something here today I'm
1:39:53sure you did I think the common humanity
1:39:55that is among us is something to be
1:39:57treasure and also the
1:39:59a spirit of the humanity is something
1:40:02that should long live so with that I
1:40:04want to thank IVA
1:40:06floss for being with us thank you for
1:40:08living to your 90 I hope you will live
1:40:13until you are a hundred if not more and
1:40:15come back again and again okay okay I'll
1:40:18do my best
1:40:19do do your best you promised me yeah
1:40:21yeah and since your brother was an
1:40:24artist we thought that we should give
1:40:26you a book of a Chinese artists so I
1:40:28hope you were enjoy that
1:40:31[Applause]

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