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Europe is Falling America is Next w/Raymond Ibrahim — Transcript

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0:00Hello ladies and gentlemen and welcome
0:01back to making the argument. We have a
0:03very special guest today and I'm going
0:05to ask him some hard questions because I
0:07believe there's any guy that can
0:08actually answer these hard questions
0:10with a great deal of intellectual rigor,
0:14it's today's guest. And um because he he
0:18has he has started off his work and some
0:20of the the depth of study and research
0:24that has gone into exploring Islam,
0:27exploring various terrorist
0:29organizations, and what motivates them.
0:31I I don't know that you're going to find
0:33many people that can actually compete
0:34with this guy toe-to-toe. Uh because
0:36it's not just about researching the
0:38popular narratives, he's actually taken
0:40the time to go in and read specifically
0:43not just what Islam projects to the
0:46West, not just even what organizations
0:47like Al-Qaeda project to the West, but
0:49what do they actually tell their own
0:51followers? What do they use as
0:52recruitment tools? What do they state as
0:55their objectives?
0:57Today's guest actually went in and read
0:58that. He He didn't just listen to the
1:00propaganda, regardless of what side it
1:02comes from, he actually read what they
1:04were writing to each other. And so it is
1:07an honor to have on with me today
1:09Raymond Ibrahim. Thank you very much for
1:10being with us today, sir.
1:12>> My pleasure, Nick. Thanks for having me.
1:14>> Well, I'm going to start off with uh I'm
1:16going to start off with the latest
1:17controversial topic regarding this issue
1:20not only of Islam and the West, but also
1:23the death penalty. Because I know a lot
1:26of people that I like, respect, that I
1:27call friends uh for various reasons,
1:30religious or otherwise, they oppose the
1:31death penalty or maybe they're for but
1:33they they cannot stand the idea that we
1:35would publicly execute someone and this
1:37is in reference to Nidal Hasan, uh the
1:40the man who murdered several US service
1:41members and other people. Um and and one
1:45of their biggest one of their biggest
1:46arguments against this
1:48is this idea that well, if we do this,
1:51there's going to be blowback and this is
1:53going to be used as a recruitment tool
1:55for Islam.
1:56And to kick off this whole conversation,
1:58I just wanted to ask you, like what what
2:00is your opinion with respect to this
2:02idea that we need to be very cautious
2:05about what we do for concern that this
2:08will either result in blowback from from
2:10Islam um or it'll lead to a recruitment
2:13tool. What what would you say to
2:15somebody making those arguments?
2:17>> Well, my first observation is the irony,
2:19which is basically that the people who
2:21say this are the same people who in the
2:23same breath will tell you Islam is
2:25moderate by nature and it's not radical
2:27and radicalization is hijacking because
2:29what what they're doing is they're
2:30admitting, they're confessing that
2:32Muslims are radical.
2:33Okay? [laughter] Because if Nidal Hasan
2:35is a traitor, which he is, and uh if
2:38he's being executed, which any country
2:40would say that's correct, why are
2:42Muslims getting upset? Oh, because they
2:44agree with what he did. That's what's
2:46being said, isn't it? Because if Muslims
2:48don't agree with the fact that an
2:49American soldier went and killed fellow
2:51soldiers, um then why would they be
2:53upset? They would actually be supportive
2:55of this. So, implicit already in this
2:58warning is
3:00is an admission that Muslims are by
3:01nature radical and hate us and are our
3:03enemies by nature. Uh it reminds me of
3:06what happened when
3:07Osama bin Laden I I I think well
3:10uh um Obama had him buried at sea or
3:13something and that was so Muslims of the
3:15world don't get upset. Well, I thought
3:17he doesn't represent the Islamic world.
3:18I thought he was an aberration. I
3:20thought, you know,
3:21>> [laughter]
3:22>> So, it's it's the first thing that I see
3:24and I hope everyone else sees is just
3:25the implicit uh position that they're
3:27taking. They being usually the same
3:29exact people who will tell you Islam is
3:31peaceful by nature.
3:32>> Yeah. Having said that, um
3:34yeah, I don't think Muslims the the
3:36Muslims who would be upset about this
3:38are already upset by nature.
3:39>> Yeah.
3:40>> Regardless of what you do or what you
3:42don't do, because they don't like you by
3:43nature, because you're the kafir, you're
3:45the infidel, and that's where the the
3:47root source of the hostility stems from.
3:50You executing a criminal by your own
3:52laws is not really going to shock them.
3:54They're not children, okay? They get it.
3:56But if anything if anything it's going
3:57to make them respect you a little bit.
4:00>> Mhm.
4:00>> And this is what you saw historically
4:02uh where Muslims and Europeans, let's
4:04say the Crusaders, of course they fought
4:06and the Crusaders were very aggressive
4:08and assertive. And the Muslims didn't
4:09exactly like them, but they sure
4:11respected them because they they they
4:13saw Christians who fought for their
4:14faith, who stood their ground. And so
4:16they could understand it. It's like
4:18them, right? But it's a different uh a
4:20faith system. So they at least respect
4:22that sort of um assertiveness. But uh
4:25yeah, we can we can talk some more about
4:26this whole grievance mantra, which is,
4:28you know, that like you were saying,
4:30this is
4:31you know, I've been dealing with this
4:32for 25 years, okay? Um
4:34this goes back to Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
4:37>> Well, I I I have a lot of friends uh and
4:39and I and I mean this very sincerely.
4:40I'm not like they are friends of mine.
4:42They're people whose opinions I really
4:44respect. Many of them are libertarians.
4:46And they're critical of US foreign
4:48policy, which I understand. I did two
4:49tours in Iraq with with First Special
4:51Forces Group. Um there was things I
4:53liked about US foreign policy, there's
4:55things I don't like about US foreign
4:56policy. But they they seem to lean into
4:58this argument that the vast majority of
5:01our issues with the Middle East, with
5:03Islamic countries, with um this Islamic
5:06organizations, terrorist or or
5:08otherwise, is it is primarily a result
5:11of our foreign policy. It's us being in
5:14in their part of the world. It's us
5:17being in uh you know, it's it's oil.
5:19It's what whatever the thing is. But it
5:21it always goes back to if our foreign
5:23policy was different, if we were more
5:25willing to live and let live and not be
5:26involved as much, um they would they
5:29would more than likely reciprocate that
5:31to some degree.
5:32And again, we can acknowledge that US
5:35foreign policy doesn't always get it
5:36right. But what would be your statement
5:38to people that believe that
5:39you know,
5:41Islam's primary problem with the United
5:43States is our presence in the region.
5:46>> Yeah, that I I I I with you that yes, we
5:48can actually criticize US foreign
5:50policy, but if we want to get to the
5:52heart of the matter, you know, the
5:53ultimate reason, the primary reason,
5:55that that wouldn't be it. And that they
5:57they themselves have said that. Okay,
5:59ISIS, the Islamic State, published um
6:02I think in 2017 an entire essay called
6:06Why We Fight You and Why We Hate You,
6:08and it said, "Yes, your foreign policy
6:09is one of it, but it's not the primary
6:11one. The primary one is existential,
6:13theological, religious." And they went
6:15on quoting from the Quran about how you
6:17have to hate the infidel, you have to
6:19war against the infidel when you can,
6:21you have to subjugate them, etc., etc.
6:23And now [snorts] someone can say, "Well,
6:24ISIS, you know, that's a radical
6:26organization." Well, what do we do of
6:28the fact that the historical record of
6:30Islam is exactly that? Okay, Islam from
6:33day one. How did How did Egypt become
6:35Muslim? How did Syria become Muslim? How
6:36did Turkey become Muslim? How did
6:38Morocco become Muslim? People tend to
6:40think these countries were somehow
6:41always Islamic or they just you know,
6:44they they converted peacefully. No, they
6:45were actually Christian countries, more
6:47Christian than Europe, and they were
6:49conquered is very savagely, very
6:51violently. Is it because there was a
6:52grievance? Well, yeah, the grievance was
6:54they were kafir, they were infidels. And
6:56Islam commands them to be subjugated.
6:58That was the grievance. That was the
6:59ultimate grievance. And this goes on all
7:02the way up until America's first war as
7:04a nation, the Barbary Wars. The First
7:06Barbary War around 1801 is with Muslims.
7:09And Thomas Jefferson has no I this
7:11enlightened in this paragon of
7:12enlightened thinking
7:14meets with the ambassador I think from
7:16Tripoli, Muslim ambassador Abdul Rahman,
7:19and he basically says, "Why are you
7:21enslaving our sailors, our American
7:22sailors, and and torturing them? And why
7:25don't we just get along? We have nothing
7:27We have nothing against any religion. We
7:28can just have trade, etc." And and then
7:31uh Jefferson writes in a letter to
7:33Congress, I think it's dated 1786, that
7:36the that the ambassador told him it's
7:38based on our prophet Muhammad, it's
7:39based on our Quran that anyone who is
7:41not a Muslim, essentially, is that we
7:43are at war and we have to kill them,
7:45enslave them, and subjugate them. Okay?
7:47So, I see no talk of grievances. I see
7:49no talk of you US foreign policy.
7:51>> you you missed the part where they
7:53complained about our Air Force base in
7:54Qatar in in 1801. That was what they're
7:57really upset about.
7:59Well, okay, so all right. So, let Okay,
8:01so let me play devil's advocate. Okay,
8:04Raymond, fine.
8:05Yes, in in 1801,
8:08uh the Muslim world thought very
8:10differently with with respect to, you
8:12know, slavery and warfare and conquest.
8:15And you know what? So did we, right? The
8:17Americans had slaves and the Americans,
8:19you know, conquered, you know, uh tribes
8:21and and so, what has happened is that
8:25everyone's evolved. And everyone's
8:27evolved And And look, if you go to if
8:28you go to Dubai,
8:30right? If if you go to we have a we
8:32have, you know,
8:34beautiful hotels and and resorts and
8:37indoor, you know, snow lodges and the
8:40whole deal in in in the UAE and you and
8:43you go to places like uh Bahrain. You go
8:45to places uh like, you know, you know,
8:47Cairo or whatnot. You're not seeing a
8:50bunch of people that are, you know,
8:52gearing up and getting their tanks ready
8:54so they can, you know,
8:56lay siege to Vienna again. So, your
8:58problem is is you man, you're living in
9:00the you're living in the 16th century or
9:02the 17th century. You know, we've all
9:05evolved since then, right? I mean, we
9:07have these great working relationships
9:09with Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Bahrain
9:12or Qatar. So, what why
9:14can't why can't we just acknowledge that
9:16things have changed?
9:17>> Well, that's a that's a great
9:18observation and I'm more than happy more
9:20than happy to answer, but it's going to
9:21be multi-layered. There's different
9:22aspects to it. Um and the on the on the
9:26one hand, I don't discount. Everything
9:27I've said so far is not to say that if
9:29you're a born Muslim, you are, you know,
9:31rabid and you're out to kill every
9:33infidel that you come across. What What
9:35talking about is the historical record.
9:36I'm talking about the doctrinal
9:37injunctions, okay, and what they are,
9:39how they've been understood Islam
9:41through the Islamic jurisprudence and
9:43the teachings, how they're codified,
9:45okay, and how Muslims have past and
9:47present acted out on them. Now, that
9:49doesn't mean every single Muslim does
9:52this, okay? It's just like it doesn't
9:54mean every single Christian does what
9:56Christianity requires. In fact, most
9:58don't or any religion, okay? So, this is
10:00I think one of the confusions, which is,
10:02well, I know a good Muslim and he's my
10:04he drive I get my you know, coffee and
10:06donut at 7-Eleven and I talk with Ahmed
10:08and everything's fine and he's not like
10:10that. I get it, but see, that doesn't
10:12mean he represents the Islamic way. He's
10:15not representative of Islamic strict
10:17teaching and that's that's across the
10:19board of all religions, all people.
10:22Right? So, I get that, but that doesn't
10:24you know, that doesn't assuage matters
10:27for me because if it's a number game,
10:29let's I've already I've given this
10:31analogy many times, but if it's a number
10:32game and the most conservative number
10:35I've heard, even the people who you
10:37know, the devil's advocate you're
10:38referring to who would completely
10:40discount all of this and say it's not
10:42real, it's grievances, even they will
10:44tell you at least 10% of Muslims can be
10:46radical. Yeah, well, if we're talking
10:47about 2 billion people, that means 200
10:49million people, okay? And we're not
10:51living in a day and age of swords and
10:53spears, we're living in a day and age
10:55where one person who's crazy can really
10:57kill a lot of people, okay? Flying
10:59planes into buildings or whatever the
11:01case may be, pressing a button. So, it
11:04is a real problem. So, so telling me
11:06most are not like that, which I will
11:08readily agree to,
11:10you know, and I'll have to qualify that,
11:12but even if I if I agree to that, it
11:14doesn't change the problem that we're
11:15talking about. Some don't, some are
11:18acting on this impulse and that's more
11:20than enough to be problematic.
11:22So,
11:23you know, I give this analogy I call the
11:25100 Muslim candies, okay? So, imagine a
11:28jar of 100 candies, okay? And uh some
11:31taste great
11:32and they're good for you or they won't
11:34harm you. Some are bland and they don't
11:36necessarily um they don't taste they
11:38don't taste good but they're not going
11:39to hurt you. Some don't taste good and
11:41will actually get you a little sick.
11:42Some will hospitalize you and some are
11:45literally poison. They will kill you.
11:47And it's all mixed up. I mean uh who
11:49would eat from that candy? Well,
11:50[laughter] when you any when you get a
11:52large Islamic demographic imported into
11:54your country, that's exactly what you're
11:56being given. Okay? Some are going to be
11:57great Muslims, they want to integrate,
11:59they want to assimilate, they don't even
12:00care about their religion.
12:02Some are Muslims who they're not going
12:04to improve your society but they're not
12:05going to hurt it either. They're just
12:06whatever. Some are there just to exploit
12:08the system. They don't want to
12:10assimilate, they don't like you, they
12:11just want to get money. Some are there
12:13and they're going to engage in criminal
12:15activity like in the UK you have this
12:17rape gang culture 250,000
12:20British girls systematically targeted.
12:22And some will be the lone wolf
12:24terrorists who will just randomly get up
12:25and go stabbing people, go drive his
12:27truck inside whatever a church and kill
12:30people, okay? Once you take a large
12:32Muslim
12:33population, you've accepted that jar of
12:35candy. Okay? And that's the bottom line.
12:36So for me it has nothing to do with how
12:39many is it. I get it. There's all kinds
12:42of Muslims, some who don't care, some
12:43who are some who've even understood it
12:45in a moderate way though I'm not I don't
12:47think that's realistic but fine.
12:49But that's not the issue. I'm not here
12:51to argue. I don't and I don't think a
12:52person has to believe that every
12:54Muslim's a jihadist.
12:55I'm not here [clears throat] to argue
12:56that and I don't think you need to
12:57believe that basically but the fact that
12:59you will always have that core whether
13:02and I gave you the 10% as a conservative
13:04number. I personally believe it's much
13:05higher. Okay? And uh then uh if we
13:08continue with the analogy of the candy
13:10one last point is uh and also this
13:12bottle of this diverse group of candy
13:15depending on the weather and the climate
13:17it will change. And so even the good
13:19ones can get sour and make you sick. And
13:21by that analogy what I mean is often
13:23times what you'll see in Islamic
13:25populations is depending on the
13:26circumstance and how Islam if Islam's
13:29getting stronger on the ascendancy or
13:31not, their behavior changes too. And so
13:33in the Middle East there were I'll just
13:35one last point and I'll be quiet. One in
13:38the Middle East in Syria and Iraq at the
13:39time of ISIS
13:41multiple Christian
13:43communities who were driven out and some
13:45were killed pointed out how the Muslims
13:47that they lived side by side with for
13:49generations who were like family and
13:51they got along and then when ISIS came
13:53and now Islam is powerful they joined
13:55sides with ISIS and marked and pointed
13:57out where the Christians live and they
13:59just had to run and leave.
14:00>> Ladies and gentlemen, freedom is given
14:02to us by God, not the government, but
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14:57Make sure these guys actually have the
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15:01for our God-given rights.
15:03>> Well, I I just we just got done
15:04interviewing Brigitte Gabriel and she
15:05talked about the same thing in Lebanon.
15:07She goes that that was one of the one of
15:09the most heartbreaking things was
15:10watching Muslims that you thought you
15:12were friends with, that you were in
15:13business with, that in in as soon as
15:16they had a majority it was like no no
15:17no, we're in charge now.
15:19So it was the no, you were entitled you
15:21were entitled to a certain level of
15:22maybe respect or coexistence insofar as
15:25we didn't have the strength to actually
15:27do what we wanted to do.
15:29And and that that's the next thing I
15:30want to ask about is because
15:32you know, Frank Turek I I think has
15:34explained this well and other people
15:35have used the same analogy where he
15:36said, you know, I don't blame someone if
15:40someone is is playing Beethoven and they
15:43play it badly, I don't blame Beethoven.
15:47But the concern that I have when I look
15:49at Islam is I feel like the people that
15:52are playing Islam badly
15:54are the nice moderate ones.
15:56Not the other way around. And and that's
15:58that's the part that I'm looking for
16:00because
16:01for instance, I can't find any
16:03justification in in in Christianity
16:06where where I can
16:09I can be logically consistent as a
16:11Christian and compel you by the sword to
16:13adopt my faith. I can't do that.
16:16But I look at the Quran and I look at
16:18the Hadith and I look at several surahs
16:19and I'm like they can absolutely justify
16:21that. This idea because some people
16:24don't choose to interpret it that way
16:27doesn't mean that's not a reasonable
16:28interpretation of Islam.
16:30And so that's kind of what I wanted to
16:32ask you next is this idea is you know,
16:34again, I would say that
16:37the the proof of a
16:39whether or not a religion is generally
16:41peaceful
16:42is whether or not the people adhering to
16:44it appropriately
16:46create peaceful societies.
16:49It it's if I point to someone that's a
16:50complete aberration or I point to
16:52someone that is not living out their
16:53faith and they're the peaceful ones, I
16:56come to the conclusion that they're
16:58peaceful, not the faith that they claim.
17:01And so that's that's the million-dollar
17:02question when we look at the George Bush
17:04quote shortly after 9/11 saying that
17:06Islam is a religion of peace,
17:10okay, is that is that true? Can can we
17:12say right now that the people that are
17:15joining Al-Qaeda or ISIS or whatnot that
17:17they have adopted some sort of
17:19radicalized view of Islam or
17:22are do they have a reasonable
17:24interpretation of what Islam says?
17:26>> So, you know, at the heart of your
17:27question is what does Islam teach?
17:29That's the bottom line. And
17:30unfortunately, here in the West, it's
17:32become so mangled and you know,
17:34apparently an impossible question to
17:35answer. And part of this has to do, I
17:37think, with the Western Christian
17:39mentality, which everyone grabs a Bible
17:41and every verse they can read it any way
17:43they want and it's whatever they want it
17:45to be. So, that doesn't apply to the
17:46Islamic world. It's actually very simple
17:48and every Muslim knows what Islam
17:50teaches. And and, you know, just I'll
17:52give you a quick summary. And this is
17:54why I sometimes caution people don't get
17:56caught up in reading the Quran and
17:57trying to figure out yourself because
17:59that's not what Muslims do because it's
18:00it's admittedly confusing. Okay? What
18:02they do is they actually go by the
18:04tradition, go by the schools, the
18:06they're called the madhahib in plural.
18:08And what the alim, the scholars, how
18:10they've understood it, okay? So, I'll
18:12give you an example.
18:14Things like killing the apostates
18:17or having slaves, having sex slaves,
18:19concubines,
18:21treating the non-Muslim inferior as an
18:24inferior subject. All right? And killing
18:27someone because he blasphemed against
18:29Muhammad. All of these are 100% Islamic.
18:32This is there's no question to this and
18:33anyone who wants to argue otherwise, be
18:36he Muslim or non-Muslim, is either an
18:38idiot or a liar. Okay? This is just not
18:40even open to debate. Okay? It's in the
18:42scriptures. It's in the Quran. It's in
18:44the hadiths. All the scholars and the
18:46alim and the schools of law have agreed
18:47to it, those things, killing the
18:49apostate, etc.
18:51And if I look at Islamic history from
18:55the dawn of it up until now, they're all
18:57happening.
18:58So, I would be a real fool to sit here
19:01and say, well, I you know, well, but I
19:03watched an American Muslim apologist say
19:05it's not true. Okay?
19:08We got to use our eyes and use our
19:09brains a little bit. Okay? Now, to your
19:11point, So, yes, the Muslim who does not
19:14do those things, and they do exist,
19:16okay? He's He's good, but he's not the
19:19representative of Islam. We want to
19:21convince ourselves that Islam isn't by
19:23nature the good guys, and then you have
19:25the few crazy guys. It's, like you said,
19:27the opposite. Islam by nature is radical
19:30because it teaches things that are
19:31inherently antithetical to Western
19:33norms, as I just mentioned. Okay? That
19:36They are the It's not just a radical
19:38divergent warped aberrant teaching. It
19:41is the mainstream way it's always been
19:43understood. You want to know what Islam
19:45is? Okay, stop listening to the American
19:47apologist who no Muslim even has heard
19:49of, okay? The Muslim or European The
19:53Muslims who live in the West who are
19:54telling you, "No, no, you're
19:55misunderstanding it." Go to the Muslim
19:56world and see what happens there. You
19:58will find Christians are subjugated,
20:00they're being persecuted, they're
20:01sometimes being killed, they're not
20:03allowed to have churches, they're being
20:05thrown in jail because they shared a
20:07Facebook post that's negative about
20:09Muhammad. Okay, that's real Islam. It's
20:11happening now. So, why on earth would I
20:13think it's not the real thing? And I'll
20:15leave you with a final analogy just to
20:16show you how the people who voice these
20:18arguments about what's real Islam,
20:21how how inconsistent they are.
20:23You know, Oskar Schindler was a Nazi,
20:25right? And he was a ranking Nazi. He was
20:27an actual member, not just a sympathizer
20:29or just some German living in the, you
20:31know, '30s. He was a a member.
20:33And well, he's supposed to be a hero,
20:34right? He did great things. He saved
20:35Jews and others at no small risk to
20:38himself.
20:39And yet I have never heard someone You
20:41know, I don't see a movement about how,
20:43"Hey, Nazism is misunderstood. Most
20:45Nazis are like Oskar Schindler. They're
20:47moderates. It's just the bad The
20:49Hitler's That was He was just radical.
20:51That's not true Nazism." Nobody does
20:53that, right? And it's because we all by
20:54nature understand, "Yeah, Nazism is is
20:57what Nazism is." But you you have people
21:00and members among them who will, you
21:02know, rise above it and maybe do the
21:03good thing, do the right thing. And
21:05that's what those Muslims are, but we
21:07insist that oh, you see they represent
21:09good real Islam. No, they don't. No more
21:12than Oscar Schindler represents good
21:13Nazism.
21:15>> Okay, that that's a really I know I I I
21:17appreciate the analogy. Um
21:20let me ask this other question. This
21:21this goes with kind of maybe a rebuttal
21:23to the devil's argument that or the the
21:25you know
21:27the other argument I was making earlier.
21:30I I've noticed something. I I feel like
21:32when when I track Islam from
21:36what the late 7th century
21:38um
21:40uh you know, and and I look at the the
21:42original, you know, bursting out of the
21:44Arabian Peninsula and it's right after
21:46the Persians and the and the Byzantines
21:48had just just been beating each other to
21:50death for decades. Both of them are
21:52tired. They they wipe out significant
21:55Persian forces. They start to they start
21:57to invade Byzantine lands and take it
22:00over.
22:01Um
22:03it it it seems as if
22:05and and and then you you can follow
22:06this. You can follow this trend all the
22:09way up into the the siege of Vienna
22:12Vienna with what was it Mehmet the
22:14second?
22:15Um
22:16and and not Mehmet the second is is
22:18Constantinople.
22:19>> Constantinople.
22:20>> Mehmet. It's another Mehmet.
22:22>> [laughter]
22:22>> But but you you you see this common
22:25trend and that is and that is this.
22:27In so far as they have sufficient
22:30military and economic power to engage in
22:33conquest by the sword they do. It it's
22:36an it's an unbroken
22:38history
22:39from what the 600s
22:42uh to to the siege of Vienna where you
22:44finally start to see this this
22:45turnaround and all of a sudden you know,
22:48they they've been pushed out of Spain by
22:49this point. They're the you know, the
22:51poles have showed up at the gates of
22:52Vienna and and pushed them back. And
22:54then you start to see them collapsing
22:56back. That doesn't mean they stop being
22:57militaristic. It just means that at this
22:59point uh a threshold has been reached
23:02where they don't possess the same
23:03military and economic power. Do you Do
23:05you think something changed after that
23:07took place with respect to a mindset?
23:10Or do you think that, for instance, if
23:13if the Turks,
23:15once again, had, you know, a similar
23:17power dynamic with with the West that
23:20they did for for much of Ottoman rule,
23:23that they would go right back to
23:24conquest through the sword?
23:26>> There's absolutely no doubt in my mind
23:28that anytime you find Islam being docile
23:31and peaceful, as much as it is today,
23:33Islamic countries by nature are not
23:35waging jihad on other countries,
23:37this is due to circumstances entirely.
23:40Because anytime historically a Muslim
23:42power, an emirate, sultanate, caliphate
23:45was strong, it immediately attacked its
23:47neighbor and tried to subjugate them.
23:48And that that is the story of the spread
23:51of Islam.
23:52In the 7th century, in the 1st century,
23:53Islam conquered 2/3 of the Christian
23:55world, as I mentioned. All of North
23:57Africa, the Middle East, Spain
23:58conquered. Finally stopped in 732, 100
24:02centuries after Muhammad's death in 632
24:04in France, Tours.
24:06And then later you have these different
24:07emanations you're referring to,
24:08including the Ottomans. 1683, they're at
24:11Vienna. Now we're talking a thousand
24:12years after Muhammad.
24:14And so it always, you know, Samuel
24:16Huntington wrote a very important He was
24:18He's famous for the book Clash of
24:19Civilizations, and he One of his
24:21memorable lines is Islam's borders are
24:23bloody.
24:25And yeah, because wherever Muslims live
24:27side by side with non-Muslims, there's
24:29going to be chaos, especially if the
24:32Muslims are at that point strong. So
24:34Saudi Arabia is not a strong nation.
24:36It's not going to go now and declare
24:38jihad on America and you know, say we're
24:40going to
24:41because obviously that would be the end
24:42of Saudi Arabia. So Islam itself,
24:44tracing all the way back to Muhammad,
24:46actually
24:48was actuated based on circumstance. So
24:50Muhammad's entire life and the so-called
24:52revelation of the Quran is based on
24:54circumstance. When he started preaching
24:57in Mecca, when he was weak, outnumbered,
24:59just an orphan, and being ostracized by
25:01the the the the Quraysh poly-
25:03polytheists.
25:05Um his message was very peaceful and
25:07modest, and uh you know, um cooperative
25:10almost.
25:11And then when he goes to Medina and he
25:14essentially becomes a warlord in 610,
25:16which is by the way year one of the
25:18Islamic calendar, just to you know, just
25:20to underscore that Islam is not about
25:22his birthday or when he started
25:23preaching or when he got his first
25:24revelation, it's when he became a
25:25political figure because that's what
25:27Islam is. It's a it's a political uh
25:30idea, ideology. Any any rate, at that
25:33point he becomes stronger, and the
25:35stronger he comes and the more he goes
25:36on the offensive, so too do the
25:38revelations start calling on Muslims to
25:40take the offensive to the infidel, to
25:42the kafir. And uh and it culminates in
25:45in towards the end of his life. Now he's
25:47conquered so much of Arabia including
25:48Mecca, and this is where you get the
25:50most militant uh verses. They're one of
25:52them is known as the sword verse, and
25:54that's 9:5, and it's in fact the very
25:57one that that ambassador who spoke to
25:59Thomas Jefferson was quoting. And Thomas
26:02Jefferson based And I know that because
26:03the way he paraphrased it sounds very
26:05literal to the sword verse, which says,
26:07"Wait for the polytheist, ambush them,
26:09enslave them, and kill them wherever you
26:11find them." Which is very similar to
26:12what Jefferson wrote about his reply.
26:15Um so
26:16this is uh
26:17it it's always been about circumstance.
26:19And now today you look at the Islamic
26:20world, well, it's very weak. It's And
26:23this is why I always say this is the
26:24irony that when you look at the West and
26:27it's having problems with Islam, it's
26:28all entirely self-made. Muslims
26:31historically may have invaded by sword
26:33and spear, and the Europeans or
26:35non-Muslims in general fought back,
26:37sometimes they won, sometimes they were
26:39conquered. Now Muslims are inherently
26:41weak, and you know, Europe and the West
26:44is supposed to be powerful
26:45technologically, militarily,
26:46economically.
26:48And yet, so what what happens? They
26:49bring in Muslims, Muslims do what
26:52Muslims do,
26:53and the people of Europe are miserable.
26:56Okay, there's high crime rates, there's
26:58sex crimes,
27:00just the parallel societies, the
27:02encroachment of Sharia, attacks on
27:04churches literally every single day.
27:06Okay? Yeah, well, but they didn't force
27:08their way in. So, now Islam's a problem
27:10because the West is making it a problem,
27:12which is very important thing to keep in
27:13mind, by the way. But, yes,
27:15historically, there was never a time
27:18where a Muslim power was strong enough,
27:20it could have conquered the infidel, but
27:22it said no, I respect him. I'm going to
27:24let him live in uh because I'm
27:26multicultural. That is completely
27:28[laughter] ridiculous.
27:29Never happened. It was always about
27:30circumstance. And there's Muslims, I'll
27:32finish it. There's Muslim clerics and
27:34what I'm telling you this isn't just of
27:35my making. I've watched Islamic clerics
27:38do say it like that. Say, yes, we right
27:40now we're weak, so we should allow the
27:42Christians living among us to have equal
27:43rights because we don't want to look bad
27:45or in front of the international
27:47community, but if and when we get strong
27:49enough, of course, we're going to go
27:49back to the way it should be.
27:51>> So, so that that begs the question
27:53because it's circumstantial. And again,
27:55you you take this all the way back to
27:56Muhammad. So, it's not like a it's not
27:58like a recent development where all of a
27:59sudden, you know,
28:01Islam Islam was in the decline and so
28:04therefore the model was like from the
28:05very beginning when it was conducive to
28:08be peaceful and multicultural, then that
28:09was the approach. And when the moment
28:11sufficient power was was present, it
28:14went straight conquest. So, here here's
28:16my question.
28:17Obviously, the mandate to
28:21to to spread Islam throughout the entire
28:23world
28:25and to do so by by, you know, various
28:27means.
28:28Um that becomes more difficult when you
28:29can't do it through the sword. And so,
28:32people adopt different strategies. They
28:33adopt asymmetric strategies.
28:36Uh it's like, okay, if we're if we're
28:37weaker, but we still have this mandate,
28:39we still have something we have to do,
28:40and we obviously don't want to be
28:41weaker, then what are the various things
28:42that we do to put ourselves in a better
28:44position? Do you believe that what is
28:46going on in the West right now with the
28:49the mass importation, sometimes legal,
28:52sometimes illegal, do you believe that
28:55that is
28:57strategic? Do you believe,
29:00you know, how do we differentiate from
29:01the the person that is like I'm
29:03literally just trying to flee from a war
29:04zone versus the person that no, no, I'm
29:07I'm coming here specifically because I'm
29:10going to be able to utilize your laws,
29:12your traditions, your culture weaknesses
29:15in order to gain a critical mass and
29:17then and then win by other means.
29:19>> Well, that's the problem and that's why
29:20I gave you that 100, you know, candy
29:22analogy. You know, how do you ascertain
29:24and determine which is the true refugee
29:26and which is the one lying? We've
29:28already caught and many Muslims have
29:29been caught in the present being ISIS
29:31sympathizers claiming to be we're coming
29:34here, we're escaping war, etc., etc.
29:36Some Muslims certainly are, I'm not
29:38arguing that, but some are not. We know
29:40that and we even have historical
29:42precedents because they too are tied to
29:44a doctrine, the doctrine of taqiyya and
29:46all these other Islamic doctrines that
29:47promote and allow Muslims to deceive the
29:50non-Muslims if it's for a good cause and
29:53any cause that is seen as empowering
29:54Islam or Muslims in general is a good
29:56cause.
29:57>> Can I can I ask you a question? Can I
29:59ask you a question about taqiyya real
30:00quick because I think this is really
30:01important because whenever this gets
30:03brought up you you'll see the the Muslim
30:06scholars say, "No, no, no, that's a
30:07misrepresentation of what taqiyya is.
30:09The way you should think about taqiyya
30:10is if well, for instance, if you were
30:13hiding Jews from the Nazis, they
30:15wouldn't use this example, but if you
30:16were hiding the Bible says you shouldn't
30:18lie, but if you were hiding Jews from
30:19the Nazis and the Nazis came in and
30:21said, "Do you have Jews here?" you'd say
30:22no, right? So, you could lie with that's
30:25a violation of scripture, but we all
30:26understand that circumstantially it
30:28makes sense because of what you're
30:29trying to achieve.
30:31Um
30:32that's that's how they kind of that's
30:34how they explain taqiyya. How how would
30:36you explain taqiyya?
30:38>> The classical interpretation definition
30:40of taqiyya is that you're Muslim and a
30:43non-Muslim power has authority over you
30:46and now and you can get hurt if it knows
30:49you're a Muslim. And so you can conceal
30:51and dissemble your identity.
30:53Uh you can for example say I'm a
30:55Christian, I renounce Islam, I hate
30:56Muhammad. Okay, but in your heart you
30:58have to stay as a Muslim. That's the
31:00only way it works. And if you do, then
31:02you're still a Muslim. This is
31:03absolutely how taqiyya is. The problem
31:05and the confusion is so many people
31:07including a lot of Muslims conflate this
31:09word with other teachings and doctrines
31:12in Islam that do promote deceiving the
31:14infidel per se. So the argument that
31:17you're referring to is they're going to
31:18tell you that you can only do it if your
31:20life is under duress. Okay, taqiyya. But
31:23in fact Muhammad himself gave so much
31:25leeway to deception.
31:27Okay, so I'll give you a perfect
31:28example. Um
31:30a a poet was mocking Muhammad.
31:33And so Muhammad threw his hands up and
31:34said, "Who will rid Allah and his
31:36prophet of this man who has mocked Allah
31:38and his prophet?" A a young Muslim says,
31:40"I will, but I have to lie to him and
31:42deceive him. Is that okay?" Muhammad
31:43says, "Go for it."
31:45This young Muslim goes there and the old
31:48poet knows that this is a follower of
31:50Muhammad so he, you know, he distances
31:52himself. But the young Muslim lies and
31:54says, "I hate Muhammad now. I've learned
31:55my, you know, I've learned the truth
31:57about that guy. You were right all
31:58along." Okay, so he's lying until
32:00finally he gets close enough to him,
32:02beheads him, takes his head to Muhammad
32:03and everyone screams Allahu Akbar. Okay,
32:05and there's many examples of this. Um
32:08what Muhammad himself said, "War is
32:09deceit." Well, if by nature
32:12um and he said this in the context of
32:13also promoting another ruse and
32:15deception. But it but it but if as
32:18Islamic law understands it, the Muslim
32:20is at at a spiritual war even or
32:23existential war with a non-Muslim
32:25perpetually and they are, of course
32:27there's circumstances as we as we've
32:28seen. Sometimes you have to take a 10
32:3010-year treaty because you're weak or
32:32whatever, but if you're always at war
32:34and um
32:35a lie can help you and can help you and
32:37that is always the enemy, then you can
32:39always lie. And I've heard Muslims
32:41describe it like that, too. So, I think
32:43the what they're doing a lot of these
32:45Muslims is they're you know, they're the
32:47apologia that they're using is they're
32:48trying to show you the actual word
32:49itself, taqiyya, and the doctrine is not
32:52about promoting deception just in
32:54general. It's about you know, my life is
32:56under threat, now I can lie. But, in
32:59fact, we there's multiple examples where
33:02Muhammad has promoted lying just to go
33:05just so the Muslim can get one over on
33:08the infidel.
33:10And so, that's you know, that's that's
33:12the is in other words, deception against
33:14the infidel infidels is halal, meaning
33:16it's completely permissible.
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34:32>> So, so taking all into that account, so
34:34we've got this idea where again if if we
34:37accept all of this and I happen to, but
34:39if we accept the idea that Islam does
34:41not not just
34:43allow for but command conquest to
34:46include conquest by the sword. If
34:48conquest by the sword is not
34:50readily available or not practical, then
34:52you utilize asymmetric means to be able
34:54to do so. You're permitted to lie to
34:56those who are not Muslims and for the
34:58purpose of actually advancing Islam. And
35:01then we actually have a history of
35:02people who might have fled to other
35:04countries as genuine refugees, but then
35:07when the dynamic changes and Islam
35:09starts to grab a foothold, even the
35:11people that were genuine refugees now
35:13end up siding with the majority Muslim
35:15population which is aggressive.
35:19In in in what world does it make sense
35:22to permit
35:24immigration from Islamic countries or
35:27just from Islamic in in to a culture
35:31that they've effectively declared war
35:33on?
35:34>> Well, in the Western world cuz it's
35:36insane.
35:36>> Yeah. It's the only place that would do
35:38such a thing, obviously.
35:39>> Um do you know what's kind of very
35:41interesting? Most people don't even
35:42realize this that one of the Islamic
35:44teachings and part of Islamic law is a
35:45Muslim could not historically go
35:47willingly live in a non-Muslim nation.
35:49>> Mhm.
35:50>> And [clears throat] for a non-Muslim,
35:51let's say a European Christian to come
35:53visit, let's say had a message to the
35:55caliph, he had to get a special permit
35:58because he would get killed.
36:00You know, once he entered Islamic
36:01territory because by In other words, the
36:03idea that the the infidel is my enemy
36:06was so ingrained in every Muslim's mind.
36:08So, why would you go live with them? And
36:10the only reason now that they are
36:11allowed to go because now of course we
36:13have fatwas and so you have to justify
36:15for Muslims how can they go live in
36:17America?
36:18And one of the chief reasons is well,
36:20you're there to proselytize. You're
36:22there
36:23to engage in what's called dawah, which
36:24is you you calling the somehow make it
36:26again, helping Islam. You're empowering
36:28Islam either by getting them to convert
36:30to Islam, getting them to like Islam,
36:32getting them to be you know, to favor
36:35Islam or whatever the case may be. Uh
36:38but just so you understand and you know,
36:40this I think will also be helpful to you
36:42based on what we've been talking about
36:43but so Jihad is historically violence
36:46and force.
36:47But Isaiah had alluded that was because
36:49that was the only way Muslims could
36:50could actually penetrate non-Muslim
36:52territory because non-Muslims didn't
36:54want it.
36:55So today, you know, you're talking about
36:57things like the deception and all this.
37:00And I've always found that ironic
37:01because the word Jihad or Jihad in
37:04Arabic al-Jihad,
37:06um
37:06it when you look at the Orientalists or
37:08the early scholars who translated it in
37:10English, they would translate it to holy
37:12war. Okay? Because that's what it was.
37:14You know, that that was the the
37:15connotation. That's what it meant. But a
37:17lot of Muslims today will mock it and
37:19see and tell you, "Oh my god, see? They
37:21don't know what they're talking about.
37:22Jihad does not mean holy war. Jihad
37:24means struggle." Okay? And they're
37:26absolutely right. But in fact, that just
37:29shows you how dangerous Jihad is.
37:31Because although Jihad does mean
37:33struggle, it like I said, historically
37:35the only way you're going to struggle
37:36against the infidels through force. So
37:38it did become holy war. But today,
37:41because the infidels are fooled,
37:42especially in the West, you can engage
37:44in struggle but not through physical
37:46force because you you can't do it due to
37:48circumstances.
37:50So they actually have classifications of
37:51all sorts of different Jihads now.
37:54And they have in Arabic I can give you
37:55the names but they they're basically
37:57Jihad of the tongue, Jihad of the pen,
37:59propaganda, deception, okay?
38:02Proselytization, Dawah. These are all
38:04Jihads. Jihad of the womb, okay?
38:07Demographic Jihad, having as many
38:09children Muslim children all named
38:10Muhammad in Western countries. You're
38:12going to you're going to inundate you
38:14with Muhammad basically. They say this.
38:16This isn't just
38:17something that we're noticing when you
38:19look at all these large Western capitals
38:21that the number one name baby born name
38:23is Muhammad for example. Uh they have
38:26financial Jihad which means oh I'm just
38:28a rich Saudi and I'm just going to pay
38:31for those guys to do that kind of thing
38:32while I go and you know
38:34dance with whoever may be Donald Trump
38:37with the sword and act like we're best
38:39friends. Okay, so so all of these people
38:42are engaged in Jihad. Need not be
38:44physical, need not be with swords. That
38:46was the historical manifestation like I
38:48said cuz that was the only way you can
38:49get away with it. But in today's
38:51environment where where
38:53okay, you can get away with a lot. So
38:54the struggle has taken on different
38:56guises.
38:57>> So
38:58let let me ask um
39:03I I more and more I've become convinced
39:06that um
39:07again the the the way I've pointed this
39:09out before is I've said look
39:11when when I say that Islam is not
39:13compatible with Western civilization, I
39:16feel like I'm standing on pretty firm
39:17footing. Because I I look at the you
39:20know roughly 51
39:22uh
39:22you know Muslim dominated countries in
39:24the world
39:25and I don't see a single one that really
39:27looks like a Western country
39:30with respect to its legal traditions,
39:32its social traditions, its political
39:33traditions, certainly not its religious
39:34traditions. So so why should I be
39:37confused that if you mass import
39:40Muslims, they're not going to recreate
39:43uh a civilization they've never created
39:45within their own within their own
39:46borders of their own area.
39:48So this this leads into my next question
39:50and that is the most confusing alliance
39:53to a lot of people is the red green
39:56alliance. The idea that the more
39:58socialist, the more left wing and and in
40:01many respects the more secular
40:03um the the political party in the West
40:06and you see this with Michael Foucault.
40:08I mean the
40:09the godfather of postmodernism
40:12um traveling to Tehran in the late 70s
40:15and cheering on the Islamic revolution.
40:18So you you see this red green green
40:20alliance and and to some degree you say,
40:22"Okay, I get it. Neither one of them
40:24like the West."
40:26And and so they they see themselves in
40:27allies. And maybe within critical
40:29theory, you can see the oppressor
40:31oppressed dynamic in third worldism. And
40:34a lot of the third world countries that
40:35that mass import that not all, but a lot
40:37of the third world countries that mass
40:39import especially in Europe are from
40:40Muslim dominated countries. So you can
40:42understand maybe there's some degree of
40:44common cause there.
40:46But it still seems confusing because
40:48when you look at desired end states,
40:52you could not be more diametrically
40:54opposed. Why do you think the red green
40:56alliance not only exists but seems to be
41:00growing especially in Europe right now
41:02and and the United States?
41:04>> What you're describing is the strange
41:05oddity of if you're if you're of the
41:07left, you should actually dislike Islam
41:10more than the right of the West because
41:14what I you know, the right
41:16the Christian right may say I don't
41:17believe in gay marriage, whereas Islam
41:19will say I'm going to throw you off a
41:20roof and kill you. Right? So you would
41:23think the left would favor you know, the
41:25the right the Western right more than
41:27Islam.
41:28The reason for me now and this is a
41:30little more metaphysical and hard to
41:31explain, but the what I see and I see
41:33this also historically which I'll try to
41:35explain is the reason the left and you
41:37kind of hinted at it you alluded it when
41:39you said secular left and the more
41:40secular. It's because they hate
41:42Christianity. And they're in the West
41:44and the West was Christian and there's
41:46still vestiges of it and that's what
41:48they hate. And the entire war is about
41:50de-Christianizing and killing
41:52Christianity in the West. So I think
41:54they have a natural alliance and
41:56proclivity with Muslims who have done
41:58the same exact thing historically. Okay?
42:01And so you can imagine a leftist who of
42:04course he won't say, "Oh, I hate
42:05Christianity." He'll give you the you
42:07know, he'll speak like a secularist and
42:08everyone has their own religion.
42:10But then he'll tell you like let's say a
42:11politician, you you know, they'll try to
42:13suppress you know, whatever, Christmas.
42:15They'll try to suppress Christian
42:18um symbolism, Christian expressions."
42:20But then they'll bring in Muslims and
42:22empower them. And the Muslims go on
42:24church-desecrating sprees desecration
42:27desecrating spree uh sprees, sorry, um
42:31as they do all around Europe. And that's
42:33okay. Yeah, because it's uh
42:36it's whether it's consciously or
42:37subconsciously, they don't mind that
42:39because they have the same exact enemy.
42:41And you do see this historically. A lot
42:43of people don't realize that.
42:45For example, the the Vikings, who were
42:47pagans, when they were invading and
42:49attacking England [clears throat] and
42:50Ireland and France,
42:52a big huge motivation was to get slaves.
42:55But most of those slaves were actually
42:57given and sold to the to the Muslims in
42:58the Arab slave trade, in the Abbasid
43:00Caliphate, for example, because they
43:02paid a high premium for white European
43:04flesh, okay? And uh so and and and the
43:07same thing you saw with those Vikings,
43:08they hated the cross and they would burn
43:10churches. That's what Muslims were
43:11doing, too. So there was there was It
43:13doesn't mean they liked each other any
43:15more than the leftist today likes the
43:16Muslim, or vice versa, certainly. But
43:19they had the same enemy in between them.
43:21And uh I I that's what I think is really
43:23going on, because otherwise, how can you
43:24explain it? Uh if you're a leftist, you
43:27would still favor the right of the West,
43:31the alt-right, anytime more than than
43:33Islam. But there's also a lot of
43:35stupidity, as I was suggesting. And so I
43:37think a lot of leftists, you know, in
43:39their mind, they've been ingrained with
43:40these ideas: brown is innocent, white is
43:43guilty. So even these Muslims, whatever
43:45they believe, it's it's it's the white
43:47man's fault, somehow. It's
43:49Christianity's fault. It's colonialism.
43:50It's crusades. It's the grievances we
43:52started off about, right? So I think
43:54that's also infected people's minds, and
43:56that's why
43:57But you would think, at this point,
43:59they've seen how, you know, what what
44:00Muslims do, okay, killing the gays and
44:03all that sort of thing, and how they
44:04treat women, right? And uh you would
44:06think they would sort of revise their
44:08opinion or at least be neutral, but
44:09they're not. They're still very uh
44:11supportive of Islam in the West.
44:14>> So, here's my here's my final question
44:15and I and perhaps I've saved the most
44:17controversial for last. Um
44:20when I when I look at that, when I look
44:21at an ideology that seems again, they're
44:24they're absolutely determined in order
44:26to spread their faith and they believe
44:28that spreading by the sword is perfectly
44:29acceptable. Because I always say like
44:30I'm a Christian. I absolutely believe I
44:32we have a we have an
44:34a mandate in Matthew to evangelize all
44:38the nations of the world. The difference
44:40is I don't get to do it by the sword. I
44:42don't get to do it by violent conquest.
44:44I can't compel you to be a Christian
44:46because the only entity that had any
44:48sort of authority to compel you to be a
44:49Christian was God and he chose to not do
44:51that. So, I don't I can't reserve that
44:53right to myself. Islam sees it very
44:55differently. And and I've also used this
44:57with other religions because I will have
44:58people bring up it's like, oh well, do
44:59do you believe I said, well, no, I'm a
45:01Christian, so obviously I disagree with
45:03Judaism. Obviously, I disagree with
45:05Buddhism. Obviously, I disagree with
45:06Shintoism. Obviously, I disagree with
45:08Zoroastrianism or whatever else you
45:09want. The difference is
45:12Zoroastrians, Jews, Buddhists, and
45:14Shintoists aren't running planes into
45:16the buildings. They're not responsible
45:18for 97% of the religiously motivated
45:20terrorist attacks. They don't seem when
45:22Japanese immigrate to the United States,
45:24I'm usually like, cool, what great
45:26neighbors. They they they integrate even
45:29though their culture is different, it's
45:31a culture which still integrates well
45:33into my culture.
45:36So, for me I look at this and I say,
45:38look, I I'm sorry, but we we can't have
45:41open immigration with Islamic countries.
45:44That's that's not to say we can't have
45:45any exchange, but
45:48open immigration doesn't make sense to
45:50me because you want something very
45:51differently than what we offer.
45:54And so as as just a as a baseline
45:56starting point, we're not immigrating to
45:58your countries and you're not
45:59immigrating to ours.
46:03I don't think that's enough.
46:05And and I and I before I never would
46:07have said that. Before I would have
46:08said, "No, no, you you have your part,
46:09we have we have our part." But now, the
46:11more I look at this, the more I realize,
46:13"No."
46:14Not only are you you using this
46:15asymmetric strategy
46:17to infiltrate my country and my
46:19civilization,
46:21but I'm having a hard time coming to the
46:23conclusion that there'll ever be a point
46:24where we can even have peaceful
46:26coexistence because you will always be
46:28looking
46:29for a way to undermine and subjugate.
46:34And
46:34as you know
46:37as that minor ranking general Napoleon
46:39once said,
46:40>> [laughter]
46:40>> you know, the logical end of defensive
46:42warfare is in surrender.
46:44And so, is there is there a point where
46:47we say as much as we would like
46:50to leave you alone in your countries and
46:52you leave us alone in ours, we've just
46:53come to the conclusion you're never
46:54going to permit that. And so, now we
46:57have to go on offense if we actually
46:58want to stop it.
46:59>> It seems like the full magnitude of the
47:01Islamic dilemmas hitting you.
47:03>> [laughter]
47:05>> Um
47:07Well, I'll answer it this way. Okay, so
47:09the issues that we've discussed are just
47:11part of Islam. I've a a long time ago I
47:13tried to determine, you know, Islam
47:15teaches all sorts of things and some of
47:16it is neutral, some of it is loud
47:18laudable and but of course but so I'm
47:20mostly interested what is the problem
47:22for me especially as a non-Muslim. What
47:24does Islam have in store for me? And
47:26it's it's very limited and it's very
47:27simple, but it's still very big. And the
47:29bottom line is as the non as a
47:31non-Muslim, okay, as a Christian, I am
47:36whenever Islam has full superiority, I
47:38am a second-class citizen
47:40and I can be abused, my word of in a
47:43court of law is not equal to a Muslim, I
47:45have to pay tribute, I have to be
47:46humiliated, I can't have a church, I
47:48can't do I I'm a second-class citizen,
47:50maybe third, okay, the way you you look
47:52at it. And worse, Muslims are it's
47:54incumbent on them to always one way or
47:56the other, through jihad, whether it's
47:59violence or whether it's stealth, as we
48:01were discussing,
48:02they have to try to overcome and
48:04subjugate me.
48:05Us
48:06the non-Muslim world, okay? So, that's
48:08the chief problem. Is that it is an
48:11existential struggle and and there's the
48:13lying and there's a deception and it's
48:16been working on the West as we can see.
48:19Okay?
48:20So, how does the West have to respond? I
48:22see what you're saying. On the one hand,
48:23it's one thing to get all that. On the
48:25other hand, the thing is like now to
48:26kind of turn the tables and be kind of
48:28like, "Okay, now it's not just to defend
48:30myself, I have to go on the offensive."
48:31>> Mhm.
48:32>> And here now here's the amazing and
48:34ironic thing.
48:36How powerful the West is, including the
48:39non-Muslim world in general, okay?
48:41And as like I said, and it's influence
48:43and it's wealth and it's military
48:45coercion and it's bribery through aid
48:48and all that sort of thing. I think the
48:50West could actually eliminate Islam
48:51without force. Because the truth is most
48:54Muslims, to be honest with you, the the
48:56moderate Muslims that we were talking
48:57about and which I readily admit exist,
49:00are Muslims who don't like their
49:01religion, Muslims who don't believe in
49:02it, but they're not going to rock the
49:04boat because they don't want to get in
49:05trouble with the other Muslims, okay?
49:07And so, they they just go along. But if
49:10there was an actual, you know, if the
49:12whole world kind of made it
49:14and again, not violence. Let's say
49:17America said, you know, to say whatever
49:19country said to Saudi Arabia, you know,
49:21the West found oil, we're just going to
49:22take the oil because you're using it to
49:23fund terrorism, which they are.
49:25>> Mhm.
49:26>> Or you guys need to leave Islam. They
49:27would leave Islam. I honestly believe
49:29it. The vast majority because they would
49:31finally have a reason, okay? They'd be
49:33like, "We're going to die. Look what
49:34these people are doing to us. We can't
49:35live like that. So,
49:37okay. And we'll do taqiyya, you know?
49:38But but eventually it'll it'll water out
49:41or something." So, I actually believe if
49:42the entire world got it the way you get
49:44it and I get it
49:46and was actually
49:48very interested in doing something about
49:49it, they could. Not through violence or
49:51force, just just but it's the exact
49:53opposite. So, here's the problem. The
49:55West is doing everything to empower the
49:56jihadists, okay?
49:58And this is this we got to be honest. I
49:59already explained how they're bringing
50:01them in by the boatloads into Europe.
50:04England, you know, they've had it, they
50:06want remigration. And what what do the
50:08authorities do? They keep bringing the
50:09other boatloads in at night and sneaking
50:11them in. I mean, it's really obvious
50:12treachery, okay? So, whatever the agenda
50:15is is is kind of not the point. The
50:17point is they're doing this. They're
50:19doing the opposite. Okay? I mean,
50:20there's theories that even the Islamic
50:22jihadist, if you go to an Arab country
50:24or Muslim country, they're going to tell
50:25you ISIS is is not even it's Islamic in
50:28that of course it's using those
50:29doctrines, but it's actually funded by
50:30non-Muslims who are using them to create
50:32problems around the world. I mean,
50:34that's a conviction all around the
50:35Islamic world that you'd be surprised.
50:38>> I
50:38I thought it was fascinating that
50:40Emirati wealthy Emiratis don't send
50:42their kids to the UK for their college
50:44education anymore because they come back
50:46radicalized. Right? You saw [laughter] I
50:48think it was the Saudi prince that said,
50:50"You guys are going to learn all too
50:51quickly that you do not understand Islam
50:53better than we do." Um
50:55>> And and all throughout the West they're
50:56doing things to just, you know, empower
50:58and glorify Islam. There was this it's
51:01called the EU Quran project, which
51:03they're they're lying to Europeans. It's
51:05a bunch of scholars trying to tell them
51:07that, "Oh, Islam has been part of the
51:08fabric of Europe since the beginning."
51:10>> So is Christianity. [laughter]
51:11>> Okay, so so you can see where we're way
51:14way far
51:16from doing what we're talking about,
51:17which could be done, which could be
51:18easy, and could be successful. And the
51:21reason we're not doing it is because you
51:22have a core that's established doing the
51:24opposite, which is actually making Islam
51:26a problem in the world.
51:27>> Ladies and gentlemen, midterms are right
51:28around the corner and all of us are
51:30concerned about what's going to happen
51:31with our country. The problem is a lot
51:33of the polling that we're going to see
51:34is going to be maybe some statewide
51:36polling or maybe it's national polling
51:37and we're wondering if it even applies
51:39to the races that we care about. Well,
51:40here's a better way to do this. You can
51:42look at the information yourself in a
51:44way that makes sense based off of what
51:45you care about. Blaze Media's new Poll
51:47Watch lets you pick your state, follow
51:49the races you care about, and see the
51:51public polling behind the numbers. And
51:53Poll Watch is included with every Blaze
51:56TV Plus subscription. So, not only
51:58getting access to me and all of the
52:00other hosts at Blaze, you're now getting
52:02Poll Watch included with that. So, go to
52:04blazetv.com/nick
52:06and use promo code pollwatch. That's
52:08pollwatch40
52:10to get $40 off your Blaze TV Plus
52:12subscription. That's blazetv.com /nick
52:15promo code pollwatch40
52:18for $40 off. You'll get Poll Watch,
52:20you'll be able to watch all of your
52:21favorite shows commercial-free, and join
52:23us in the fight to save America.
52:25>> So, so in in in your in your mindset, if
52:28we if we first just under if we first
52:30properly diagnose the problem,
52:32>> Mhm.
52:33>> if if we stopped electing people in our
52:35own governments or putting up with these
52:36ideologies within our own governments
52:38that actually invite this in. I I would
52:40also argue from my perspective, I
52:41actually said this at the ARC conference
52:44in London, said, "You all are here to
52:45support the West. I'm actually here to
52:47support Christendom cuz I think that's
52:50what the West actually sits upon, and I
52:52I think it's I think it's absurd to talk
52:54about the West without actually talking
52:56about the
52:56>> We're the only What other civilization
52:58do you know that's named after a
52:59direction?
53:00>> Yeah.
53:00>> [laughter]
53:02>> So, I you know, so if if we just did
53:04that, if we once again kind of believed
53:06in our own identity, history, roots,
53:08fought for it, and then to the extent
53:10that we had to engage with other, you
53:12know, with with the Islamic world, you
53:14believe that if it was something where
53:15we went in there with the proper social
53:16conviction, inner economic power, it
53:19it's not as if we would have to launch a
53:21full-blown invasion
53:23of the Middle East and and conquer. We
53:26could create We could create sufficient
53:27alternatives without military force. I
53:30mean, obviously, we'd have to have
53:31sufficient military force to defend
53:32ourselves and and go after terrorist
53:34organizations, but it's not as if we
53:35have to conduct a full-out war against
53:37the entire Islamic world. We could
53:39probably achieve um
53:42significant objectives just by asserting
53:45ourselves in other ways.
53:46>> Something like this happened during the
53:48the colonial era, which as as most
53:50historic events is completely
53:52misunderstood intentionally, which was
53:54when the Europeans were so much more
53:56powerful finally than Muslims and they
53:58invaded and they colonized in North
54:00Africa and the Middle East and in Asia,
54:03most of them being Muslim nations.
54:05A lot of them So, the story we're told
54:07now is Muslims were upset and they
54:08actually
54:10they were going out of their way to
54:11westernize and copy the colonialists.
54:13That's why if you look at pictures from
54:14the early 20th century, the Muslims
54:16don't have beards and they're walk
54:18walking around in jalabiyas. They're
54:20wearing suits and ties and they shave
54:22and the women are in dresses and not in
54:24hijabs. They were actually westward
54:25looking and they saw strength and
54:27confidence and they wanted to become
54:29like that. And then the West threw it
54:31all away in the '60s and even a little
54:33before that by telling Muslims, "No, no,
54:35we're horrible. You're the good ones."
54:38And they did this through all sorts of
54:39ways, through movies, through the
54:41academic books, all of which are, you
54:42know, distorting history.
54:45And that's what actually turned Muslims
54:46back to have contempt for the West. And
54:49the idea became, "Okay, well, we want
54:51the good stuff they have, the
54:52technology, the wealth, whatever, but we
54:55do not want to be like them culturally
54:56at all cuz they're
54:58they're animals." That's how they
54:59described them, dogs actually, pigs.
55:02So,
55:03so it was
55:05something like that was happening.
55:07But now it could even be more powerful.
55:09All the West would have to do is, for
55:11example, tell all these countries that
55:12get billions in aid, "You're not getting
55:14another penny and but we will pay you
55:17if, for example, you
55:19you know, you you you have religious
55:21tolerance and you allow churches to
55:23spread the gospel, for example," which
55:25is completely anathema and no Western or
55:27no Christian even would do that, you
55:30know, despite the mandate that you
55:32mentioned, okay? So, all sorts of thing.
55:35In Egypt, I'll give you an example. In
55:36Egypt, the Christians are constantly
55:37being persecuted and you know,
55:40always I don't know it never ends.
55:41Something happens and just most recently
55:43some young engineer was yanked from his
55:46house by a armored police because he
55:48shared a Facebook post about you know,
55:50that was critical of Islam and now he's
55:52rotting in jail. Okay, and then because
55:54of all the human rights against Egypt,
55:56there there was I don't know 320 billion
55:59kind of frozen of US aid
56:02that even even though the US gives it
56:04way more than that. But Marco Rubio just
56:07waved and said now it's okay, give him
56:08the give him the aid. So you as you can
56:10see we do the exact opposite. All right?
56:13And I think if we if if we did the right
56:15thing then Islam would cease to be
56:18a great power amongst men.
56:21>> Well,
56:22you know, Raymond Ibrahim thank you very
56:23much both both for your your work on
56:25this topic and for being with us here
56:26today. Where you I just I just
56:29I got your book right here.
56:31Sword and the Scimitar. I highly
56:33recommend everybody read that, but this
56:36is one of many for you. Can you tell us
56:37more about where people can find out
56:39more about your work and and the various
56:41books that you've written?
56:42>> Sure, thanks Nick. Yeah, Sword and
56:44Scimitar is the first of what I call my
56:46historical trilogy. Then there's
56:47Defenders of the West which looks at the
56:50Christian heroes. It's actually the most
56:51inspiring who fought Islam and who did
56:54the sorts of things that we're talking
56:55about who actually
56:56out of love and conviction went and
56:58fought against Muslims including people
56:59like you know, St. Francis of Assisi who
57:02was kind of a crusader who was at the
57:03crusade.
57:04And then my newest book is The Two
57:06Swords of Christ which I look at the
57:07military orders, the Templars and the
57:09Hospitalers and their long war with
57:11Islam. It's actually the longest book.
57:13And that's the one that most deals with
57:14the crusades because if you're going to
57:16talk about the military orders, you got
57:18to talk of course about the crusades.
57:19That's they were the backbone of it. And
57:21I have my other books, The Al-Qaeda
57:22Reader and Crucified Again.
57:25Yeah, you can get them on Amazon or
57:26actually if you go to my website, you
57:28can get them there too because sometimes
57:29on Amazon they're sold out.
57:31But on my on my website
57:32Raymondibrahim.com there's links. You
57:34can also get a signed copy if you like.
57:36And uh, Crucified Again by the way, that
57:38is out of print, but you can get it on
57:40my website. So, thanks.
57:42>> Well, I'm going to encourage every
57:42everyone to go there and and also look
57:44look for look for Raymond's other
57:46interviews that he's done. And just
57:48fascinating discussions, in-depth
57:50analysis, uh just a a life's
57:54um, a life's worth worth of work as gone
57:57into this. And again, I I think the
57:58thing that I appreciate the most is
58:00reading the original text in the
58:02original language. Cuz that's another
58:04that's another thing we get, "Oh, we
58:05just don't understand." You've written
58:06an English version of it. And then
58:07Raymond goes into the Library of
58:09Congress, pulls it up, and and nobody
58:11can tell him that he hasn't put in the
58:13work. And so it's been And and not only
58:15just the depth of the work, but also um,
58:17the way that he can explain it to a
58:18layman so that they can they can
58:20understand these concepts, so they can
58:22understand the nature of the threat. And
58:23so hopefully, we can understand what
58:25some of the solutions might look like.
58:27Once again, thank you all very much for
58:28joining us, and we'll see you next
58:30episode.

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