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Episodio 81: SEO vs GEO, una sola letra... ¿lo cambia todo? — Transcript

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0:00Geo versus versus GEO. What is
0:04happening here? Clients come and tell
0:07you, "Do SEO for me." No, let's not
0:09lose our focus, because you're focusing
0:12on a negligible percentage of traffic.
0:14Why does so-and-so appear? But I don't
0:16appear, or why prompts? Start debating
0:18with them too. How do you do prompt
0:20tracking? The term SEO has suffered
0:22constant attacks throughout its history
0:25. Search engines have changed a lot,
0:27SERPs have changed a lot, and we have
0:30changed the way we do SEO.
0:31You should forget about the ll.txt. A
0:34recent Ahrefs study has been released
0:37analyzing 137,000 domains. 97%of those
0:39domains that have that file aren't
0:41visited by anyone.
0:43Who are you to tell me what I have to
0:45do with your content? If Google has to
0:47read your site to index it, it already
0:49understands perfectly what is inside.
0:51What good is it for you to come later
0:53and tell me what I have to do? Geolocal
0:59, the podcast, episode number 81. 81.
1:09Whoa, wait. In the vast sea of links.
1:25of digital noise, where a thousand
1:30hands through the same portal over the
1:39chaos of results.
1:42And we'll leave it here.
1:45Yes, yes.
1:46Summer song. Good morning, Mr. Sergio.
1:49Good morning, Bruno Ramos.
1:51How are we doing? Well, already
1:54sweating through summer, as you can
1:56imagine. I think we must have a very
1:59similar temperature outside our windows
2:01.
2:02Yes, it seems so.
2:03And it's not pleasant. It's already
2:07here. You know, the Valencia summer is
2:10very "pleasant." The mugginess,
2:12sweating after getting out of the
2:14shower,
2:15doing nothing and sweating. Correct.
2:17Yes,
2:18that is the symptom. I'm here with the
2:21fan and I'm dripping all over,
2:26but I don't want to focus on that
2:29because then I have an even worse time.
2:33And we have many things to tell in this
2:34episode that has already started,
2:37it has already started a bit rocky.
2:39Oh, yes,
2:40man. Geolocal the podcast, in case you
2:42hadn't noticed, and you were the one
2:43who said it. Well, that's a change
2:46we're going to try to undo. An undo, an
2:51undo,
2:52don't worry,
2:54but first, it's been a month since the
2:56last time we recorded; I know things
2:58have happened to you, to me too, and if
3:00that weren't the case, it would be a
3:02problem. Ugh! But you're wearing it on
3:05your shirt.
3:07Yes, look. Well, I don't know if it's
3:09visible. Yes,
3:10it's visible, it's visible,
3:11it's visible, it's visible, it's
3:12visible.
3:14Tell it, please, because it's a story
3:15that I really liked. Yes. And I think
3:18the audience should know about a
3:19process like this. Well, this goes back
3:2310 years when we set up, well, I wasn't
3:26there yet, but we set up the agency
3:28SEO.eu, back when exact match domains
3:30were popular, and that's obviously
3:33where our SEO agency was born, right? I
3:36joined 3 years later, and ever since
3:38then, we’ve had this thought, "Hey,
3:41SEO is going to die," right? Since we
3:44love killing off SEO, we have to think
3:47long-term, and the agency is going to
3:49scale and grow, offering more and more
3:52services, but clients and potential
3:54clients often logically pigeonholed us
3:56strictly into the SEO positioning
3:59service. And so, the idea started
4:02germinating that we needed a brand that
4:04encompasses everything and allows us to
4:06sell any service without it sounding
4:08off to the client, right? Like, going
4:11to a client and saying, "No, look,
4:13we've thought of an inbound marketing
4:14strategy," and they ask, "How do you do
4:16inbound if you're called SEO agency?"
4:20So, we came up with the brilliant idea
4:22of changing one letter in SEO, and from
4:24SEO, we moved to Beos, right? Which is
4:27the new brand. One letter changes
4:29everything, right? Although it’s
4:31still the same thing because we are the
4:32same team of people, of professionals,
4:34we’ve just matured.
4:36Speaking of SEO and Beos, as I hear you
4:39talk,
4:39the feeling is that you're talking
4:41about SEO and Geo. One letter changes
4:43everything.
4:44Oh, oh, oh.
4:45So that’s the direction you’re
4:46headed,
4:46huh? Yeah, no, look, the idea is
4:50clearly to change that pigeonholing of
4:52hyper-specialization exclusively in SEO
4:55to a company that is also made up of
4:57three firms, right? We have the SEO
5:01agency, AUDAX Studio, which is for UX
5:03and digital product design, Melodía,
5:06which is another company we set up for
5:08automations and artificial intelligence
5:11, and well, we changed the 'S' of SEO
5:14to a 'B' for Business, okay? Because at
5:18the end of the day, what we want is to
5:19generate business from all the branches
5:21and specializations a digital marketing
5:23company can have, which ultimately is
5:25and that they contribute to the
5:26business.
5:27Exactly. That's why the 'B' for
5:30business comes first, because the focus
5:33is on business, and business can come
5:35through any channel or specialization
5:37within digital marketing. You know that
5:41you have been very fortunate all this
5:43time, and let me explain.
5:46Go ahead.
5:46SEO agency was valid 15 years ago,
5:50and for the moment, it's valid now. SEO
5:55has not died. SEO was out partying, you
6:00could say.
6:02Maybe Beos is fine now, because a Geo
6:05agency redirect or a brand conversion
6:08cost more. I don’t think it’s going
6:11to happen, we’ll talk about that in
6:12this episode,
6:14but I’d say you’ve been lucky
6:16because along the way I’ve seen other
6:18agencies that I don't know if they
6:21tried to emulate your naming or
6:23business model.
6:25And there was, for example, Agency GMB.
6:29Well, Agency GMB, their legs, let's say
6:32, were a bit shorter because Google
6:34likes to play around, changing acronyms
6:37, and SEO respected that, but
6:39everything else apparently not. And
6:43that is, well, a problem, so to speak.
6:46So, anyway, long live, SEO Agency.
6:49Yes, for now the idea is to make a
6:51transition, as I was telling you before
6:53, right? Smoothly. Little by little we
6:56will integrate everything into Beos,
6:58while the current brands will just
7:00remain as acquisition storefronts, but
7:02all service will be provided through
7:03Beos and that's the idea. That's how a
7:08rebranding should be done, a new
7:10generation; for a new name to enter the
7:13collective memory, the social
7:15imagination, it has to be done little
7:18by little and in the end, when you
7:21achieve it, it's wonderful. The other
7:25day I was talking with my kids, I'm
7:27already introducing them to these
7:29marketing topics, I was talking about
7:32what happened with Nestea and Fuze Tea,
7:34I don't know if you know the story.
7:37No, I don't know it.
7:39Nestlé and Coca-Cola part ways. I
7:42don't know at what point they decide
7:45it's a good idea that this product,
7:47Nestea, which was split between Nestlé
7:49and Coca-Cola, had to be two completely
7:52different products. And there are two
7:55big players there. One is the Nestea
7:58brand, which is very powerful and
8:00already established in the collective
8:02imagination and memory. And the other
8:06big player is the Nestea formula. And
8:11like parents who are separating, they
8:15decide who gets what. Nestlé keeps the
8:20brand, so Nestea is still in the
8:23supermarkets, on the supermarket
8:26shelves. You can still buy Nestea, but
8:28what you're buying isn't Nestea, it's a
8:30new formula.
8:31Mm. I mean, the can is identical, but
8:34what's inside changes, which I find
8:37quite paradoxical. And Fuze Tea, which
8:39is the new brand Coca-Cola creates,
8:41what it has inside is Nestea because
8:46they keep the formula,
8:47but it doesn't have
8:50Right, it doesn't have the brand
8:51recognition and they have to make the
8:53effort to popularize Fusti, and God
8:55knows how they're doing it because that
8:57costs a lot. So it has to be little by
9:00little, you know, agreements with bars,
9:02the typical thing, right? Like, "Give
9:05me an iced tea,""It has to be Fusti,"
9:06and they slip it in like that little by
9:08little because nobody really knows that
9:10what you're drinking is an iced tea,
9:12and the waiter isn't going to stop to
9:13explain it to you.
9:15And Fusti, the name itself sounds like
9:16"fustigarse"(to flagellate oneself),
9:18right? It's like, if I drink this, I'm
9:20going to flagellate myself. Yeah, yeah.
9:22There are names that don't land well
9:25everywhere.
9:26Exactly.
9:27I went through this process, I
9:30experienced it firsthand when my first
9:33son was born, where, uh, we didn't know
9:37what name to give him and the older
9:41girls and my wife said, "Let's call him
9:44Sergio."
9:45Right.
9:45Like his father.
9:46Exactly. Easy.
9:48I said, "No, no, I'm already Sergio,
9:49and this is a pain in the neck." Later,
9:51when someone says, "Sergio," we all
9:53turn around. It happens in the best of
9:55families.
9:55Yeah. "Okay, well, think of another
9:58name you like." And I said, "Okay, I'll
10:01think about it." But while I was
10:04thinking, they kept planting that idea
10:07in my head, like, "When Sergio is born,
10:09we'll buy Sergio some pajamas." And
10:13before I knew it,
10:14the boy was named Sergio.
10:16Wow.
10:17Well, it has to be the same with brands
10:19. So now, here and there, and in the
10:21end, it will all feel very natural. You
10:24won't even realize that you're no
10:25longer an SEO agency,
10:27so keep it up. It's gradual, and in the
10:30end, it sinks in.
10:31Exactly. Little by little. We've just
10:33started, so we still have a long way to
10:35go. The truth is, it's going to be
10:37exciting. And besides, in the new
10:39paradigm we're moving in, even more so.
10:42Even more so. Well, I've also been
10:46wandering around the world. The last
10:48time we recorded, Ana Mata was here
10:51keeping us company on the podcast, and
10:53I shared the stage with Ana Mata at the
10:56AndaluSEO, an event clearly located in
10:58Cartagena, as the name indicates, also
11:03paradoxical, but well, I think changing
11:05the name of AndaluSEO would have been
11:08more complicated than an agency. Did
11:10you end up explaining why it was held
11:12there? Because I missed that.
11:14Uh, let's see, it was held there
11:16because Carlos Sánchez and Roberto are
11:18from Cartagena. It used to be in
11:21Seville because a colleague was from
11:22there and they organized it in that
11:23city, but it didn't make much sense.
11:27So their justification was, well,
11:29Cartagena is also Al-Andalus, so I
11:32called it Andaluseo. That’s the gist
11:36of it. Okay, okay.
11:38For me, the simplest explanation is
11:40just because they felt like calling it
11:42Andaluseo. Because my hypothesis was,
11:45if the folks at KFC, Kentucky Fried
11:48Chicken, sold chicken outside of
11:52Kentucky, why not an event called
11:56Andaluseo in Cartagena? Andaluseo
11:59happens wherever it wants to,
12:02just like the people from Bilbao.
12:03Like the people from Bilbao, exactly.
12:05Bilbao,
12:07why not? And that was Andaluseo. And
12:09there we were presenting the event,
12:12which for me is one of the best, it has
12:15uh, many networking touches, aside from
12:18the training and the talks. Uh, it’s
12:21a more technical event where I feel
12:22very comfortable because I have a very
12:24technical profile, a technical
12:25background,
12:26and where I had the opportunity to give
12:29a talk. The slides are out there too,
12:31and I think the videos will be released
12:34shortly, so I encourage people to get
12:36in touch with Carlos through the
12:38Andaluseo website. If they aren't
12:40published yet, insist a little because
12:43they will be out and there are very
12:45good talks, except for mine, I suppose
12:47that you won't catch me praising myself
12:52today.
12:52Yes, yes, that's what you told me. No,
12:55I don't have self-esteem issues, really
12:57, but I saw, I mean, the high level of
13:00the talks, uh, Martin Splitt was there,
13:02okay? He came directly from Google, I
13:05mean,
13:06wow, it's hard to compete in these
13:09types of events, so
13:10Oh, sure,
13:11uh, very good. Mine was about
13:13for next year.
13:17My talk was about how to do an abnormal
13:20local SEO audit.
13:22Ah, breaking patterns.
13:23Abnormal. The explanation is that I
13:26consider myself a profound eccentric
13:28and I explained it using the Gaussian
13:31bell curve. Uh, everything that falls
13:35outside the two-sigma bell curve,
13:37deviations from the normal, is where
13:39extraordinary things in life happen.
13:43Really, if it weren't for those
13:44extremes of the Gaussian bell, we
13:46wouldn't evolve because we would always
13:48do the same thing, what is normal. So,
13:52I went a little bit in that direction
13:53and explained how to do a different
13:55local SEO audit, but "different" is too
13:57overused, so "abnormal" I liked better.
13:59Yes, it grates more and grabs your
14:01attention more. That was the idea. Last
14:05week I was a guest on Luis Revuelto's
14:08podcast, which gave me the idea for
14:10this episode of our podcast, because
14:13Luis Revuelto's episode was SEO versus
14:16Geo.
14:19And we were there with Lorena, who is
14:23the global SEO manager at Puma.
14:27Yes, I know her. Yes, yes. And with Eva
14:30, who is from—wait, let me remember
14:33the agency name—Doble SEO, Doble SEO,
14:35it wasn't coming to mind. And we were
14:40there debating, in case anyone wants to
14:42see opinions beyond those we'll cover
14:45in this episode of the podcast.
14:48It's been a long time since I was on
14:49Luis's podcast, too. Greetings, Luis.
14:51A great guy, Luis Revuelto.
14:53Yes, yes.
14:54Greetings. Plus, he's been doing the
14:55podcast for a long time now, so...
14:57Yes, he has that consistency that must
14:59be applauded because it's not easy,
15:01keeping up a podcast, in case you
15:03hadn't noticed. No, it's getting a bit
15:06uphill for me now with the summer, but
15:08...
15:09Summer, yes, it's the temperature,
15:12that's what it is.
15:13It doesn't go well with podcasting. And
15:16beyond that, as for news, we have what
15:19we have at Koyak, which we already
15:21launched in the last episode as
15:23something that was going to come out
15:25imminently, well, it's out now and it's
15:27a SERP analysis that is actually
15:29working very well. It even surprises me
15:33, even though I was somewhat the
15:35creator of the idea,
15:39because I've found many pearls, many
15:41golden nuggets that I didn't think I
15:44would find thanks to this local SERP
15:46analyzer. The main feature is the fact
15:52that it analyzes a bulk list of
15:54keywords that you may have or have
15:57obtained thanks to third-party tools.
16:01You say: "Hey, look, around my business
16:04there are all these searches, you
16:06detect them, you see there's volume,
16:09and you take all those searches and
16:11bring them to Koyak and tell it: 'Okay,
16:13now I want you to show me, Koyak, how
16:16these searches behave when performed
16:18from this specific locality, from this
16:21geographic population'." And that's
16:25when the story changes, because the
16:26SERPs aren't the same when you search
16:28from Madrid as they are when you search
16:30from Valencia or Burgos; in some, the
16:32local pack might appear, in others it
16:34might not, it depends on the offer, it
16:36depends on how the searches behave in
16:38that area. For example, a search for a
16:42traditional dress shop in Valencia will
16:44show the local pack, but if you do it
16:46in A Coruña, it probably won't because
16:49there's no supply, or because Google
16:51hasn't analyzed those searches there;
16:53it depends on many factors. And Google,
16:56Google Coyak shows you the structure of
16:59the SERPs and tells you which modules
17:01appear. It analyzes 52 or 53 modules.
17:05Wow. So it tells you, "There are this
17:08many, there are that many," because
17:10there are even some that look similar,
17:12but they aren't the same module. And
17:14it's interesting here because I've
17:16found a blind spot in some tools. Let
17:19me tell you. The beauty of the module.
17:22The beauty of the module is that other
17:25tools, like Ahrefs or Semrush, can or
17:28claim to detect the local pack, but
17:30they lack the ability to tell you, for
17:33example, if for the search "plumbers in
17:36Madrid" it will clearly tell you the
17:39local pack appears, but for the search
17:42"plumbers" it can't tell you because
17:44plumbers, where? Here, yes. There, no.
17:50The tool launches the query from its
17:52servers; it isn't geolocated, so the
17:55result is valid. The analyzer of that
17:58SERP's modules
18:00is reliable.
18:02Right.
18:02That is the first blind spot of the
18:04tools, and with Coyak, it's solved. So,
18:06there are times when the local pack
18:08appears, and it's very interesting.
18:11Sometimes you also get places, it tells
18:15you everything: the paid module appears
18:18, shopping appears, people also ask
18:21appears, FAQs appear, or video modules,
18:24or the YouTube module, and the Shorts
18:27and Reels modules,
18:30which is very interesting because it
18:33tells you that for this query, you have
18:36the chance to rank with your listing,
18:39your website, and your YouTube channel,
18:42all for the same query. That is the
18:46bomb. Right.
18:48And what I found using the tool itself
18:50is something very interesting: it turns
18:53out that locally there are queries,
18:55there are searches that don't trigger
18:58the local pack because what they show
19:00is a single competitor that appears in
19:03the desktop version in the sidebar as a
19:05kind of knowledge graph,
19:09but it's not a knowledge graph, it's a
19:11featured Google Business Profile
19:13listing. It isn't the same module that
19:16I used to call by the same name, well,
19:18it isn't, it really isn't. So, what
19:19happens? Tools like Ahrefs don't search
19:22geographically, so it's impossible for
19:25them to see it, but they don't
19:27distinguish that featured module from
19:30the Google Business Profile listing.
19:33They do detect the Knowledge Graph, but
19:35not that.
19:36Okay. And there are many—well,
19:39proportionally quite a few keywords
19:42where a competitor might be hogging the
19:45spotlight all by themselves with that
19:47featured block. The local pack doesn't
19:51even appear, or they just take all the
19:53glory. Well, when the local pack
19:56doesn't appear in the SERP, but a
19:58review snippet does, along with that
20:03featured Google Business Profile module
20:06, there's a golden opportunity to steal
20:08traffic from someone who's taking it
20:11all,
20:12and who isn't you. Right,
20:14I hadn't seen that.
20:16Well, that's happened to me many times,
20:19many times. Yeah, the thing is, finding
20:23it is complicated because if you have
20:25to do it manually, you have to go
20:27keyword by keyword, geolocate the
20:29search—it's not easy. And with this,
20:33I've already found quite a few where
20:35you say, "Wow, look at that." For
20:38Smashburger, for example, I recently
20:41found one where in one town there was a
20:44business that had it in the name—it
20:46was called Smashburger, whatever. So,
20:50of course, it appeared; it was a kind
20:53of "Hotel Gijón" effect where only
20:55they showed up,
20:56right,
20:57in the sidebar with that kind of
20:59Knowledge Graph, uh, well, clearly,
21:02it's like a simple informational box
21:04with text; it has an image.
21:08Yes, it has the image, the profile data
21:10appears, the profile map appears, the
21:12profile image appears, the name, the
21:14hours. It's a kind of Knowledge Graph,
21:17as I say, but with Google Business
21:20Profile data. It's actually a featured
21:21profile highlight. Okay, a highlight.
21:25Right, and since we also have the
21:26redesign they rolled out for—well, or
21:28that they are supposed to roll out for
21:30brand profiles—uh, just like when you
21:32search for a public figure who has
21:34published books, you already get those
21:36little modules with a background color,
21:38right? It's the
21:41But that is more of a graph, a little
21:43bit, because published books and such
21:46are entity relationships that often
21:48appear when you have a
21:51uh, what's it called? the publication
21:53code for the book, the ISBN.
21:55ISBN, yes,
21:56the ISBN. So, when you have an ISBN
22:00linked to you as an author, well,
22:01Google—I don't know exactly how it
22:03does it, but it establishes that entity
22:06relationship. The book is an entity,
22:08you are another, and
22:10the authorship relationship is what, uh
22:13, helps you appear in a sort of
22:15knowledge graph. Yes, this is also like
22:19the search profiles they've brought out
22:21now so that brands or entities, uh,
22:23have their public profile, let's say,
22:26within Google.
22:29Uh, it was one of the novelties I
22:31specifically wanted to mention, but of
22:33course, to appear there, the criteria
22:35is quite—we're talking about having
22:37100,000 followers on YouTube, Instagram
22:39, Twitter, TikTok, and then you can
22:40claim the profile and, well, you’d
22:42have your brand profile, right?
22:45Personal brand. In this case, there are
22:47two—we thought it was going to be
22:48something else,
22:50but no, it hasn’t been as easy as
22:51saying "I am a brand, give me my""give
22:54me my brand profile." No, it hasn't
22:56been like that.
22:56Right.
22:57Actually, there are two tools—we'll
22:59leave them in the show notes because
23:01they're cool to find and look for—two
23:03tools that basically do the same thing
23:04using the API. And what they did
23:08release for everyone is the "preferred
23:10sources" feature, which is basically a
23:13link so that people can subscribe,
23:15quote-unquote, within Google Search, to
23:17mark your site as a preferred source,
23:20so you have a better chance of
23:22appearing to the user who chose your
23:24site as a preferred source in AI
23:26Overviews, uh, and Discover. If I
23:29recall correctly, no, sorry, in Top
23:30Stories and Discover.
23:32Is it exclusively for the user who
23:34marks it, or is it also a general
23:36quality signal?
23:37It's for the user who marks it. Exactly
23:39. I mean, it generates—it generates a
23:42specific URL for, well, it's
23:44google.com/preference/sourcequery
23:47equals, and you put your URL, and then
23:49you share that on social media,
23:52newsletters, and so on. And so, when
23:55the user enters, they can personalize
23:57it in the same way you used to
23:58personalize search pagination, or if
24:00you want it in English or another
24:01language, well, it puts it—the source
24:03already appears, or you can search for
24:05it manually and check it, and from that
24:07moment on, that Google account will
24:09have that source as a preferred source
24:11in Top Stories and Discover, nothing
24:16more. Well, I'm testing it, but, well,
24:19it’s the classic thing. It's me going
24:22to where I read the news. I go down to
24:25the newsstand and buy my favorite
24:27newspaper. Well, this is where I like
24:29to read the news. Well, moved to
24:32digital. That's fine, I think it's cool
24:34.
24:34Exactly.
24:35Very well. And there’s no news. Are
24:38you kidding? Phew! Take a breath
24:43and start. Okay. Uh, besides the two
24:47neighborhood meetings I had to sit
24:48through this week, this morning I woke
24:52up to a very interesting update in
24:54Google Business Profile, which I think
24:56surprised you too when it came out
24:57yesterday. I was totally stunned
25:00yesterday. Yes, yes, exactly. I saw it
25:02through a post by Darren Shaw, from the
25:04agency and the app WhiteSpark, who
25:06shared it on Twitter—sorry, on Reddit
25:08—because it showed up for him too,
25:10and basically, inside the Business
25:12Profile listing, within the management
25:14view, there’s a little chat icon, a
25:16little brain I think appeared, right?
25:19Yes. For messages. Actually, it says,
25:22uh, "message," and it appears right
25:26next to the edit profile button.
25:29It appears second.
25:30It appears second. Well, it appeared,
25:32because it was here and gone. This
25:34happened 16 hours ago. You saw it last
25:37night, I think.
25:39Oh, no, before lunch.
25:42In my case, it was before lunch,
25:45and let’s see if it’s still showing
25:46up where it was before.
25:49Well, it's for a lucky few.
25:52Exactly. So, it seems they got a little
25:54trigger-happy with the rollout.
25:56Yes. And basically, uh, from what I've
26:00been reading and researching, because
26:03people started sharing in that Reddit
26:06thread—which we’ll link in the
26:08notes—the documentation points to the
26:11RCS service, which is basically Rich
26:14Communication Services, a new
26:16communication protocol that
26:21its interest or goal is to replace the
26:24famous mobile SMS, and it’s a service
26:26that started developing—a protocol
26:28Google developed—that first started
26:31making noise just a year ago, in June
26:332024, and it allows for sending
26:35enriched messages, like text, images,
26:37and video. And the idea is that this
26:42acts as a sort of agent within Business
26:45Profile that maintains conversations
26:47with your potential customers and even
26:50has the option or possibility to
26:52require your attention when that agent
26:55doesn't know what to say or how to
26:58answer, right? When it actually
27:00requires human intervention, obviously,
27:02so as not to leave everything in the
27:03hands of the AI. So here in the
27:06screenshot he showed, you have a
27:08welcome message, you have conversation
27:11starter messages, you can customize it
27:13with a logo, uh, enable this option,
27:15right? To have the chat notify me for
27:20Exactly. The customer handoff, as they
27:23call it.
27:24And what else? Well, you have messages,
27:26insights, settings, promotions as well,
27:29which here
27:29you know I couldn't see any of that. I
27:31mean, when the little icon appeared for
27:33me, I was able to access the main
27:35screens view,
27:36but there was nothing available in the
27:37settings or anywhere else. In fact, the
27:40help section didn't even lead to a URL
27:42with more info, and I really wanted to
27:44know what that was.
27:46Sure,
27:47but there was no way.
27:48Well yeah, yeah. And you have this "
27:51needs your attention" messaging feature
27:53, or have AI handle it directly, and
27:55this is what he shared because he was
27:58able to see it; it seems he's been able
28:00to tinker with it a bit more.
28:02Yes, it's evident that he has, of
28:03course.
28:04And like I said, the documentation is
28:07at developers.gwwel.com, but then from
28:09there, if you click to go to the
28:11console to manage the RCS, they give
28:13you more information. Now you can go to
28:16the specific page, which is
28:19rcsforbusiness.google/intl/en-us.
28:25We'll put it in the notes. We'll put it
28:27in the notes. Because it's the typical
28:30new service URL, it's called RCS for
28:32Business. And that's where, uh, they
28:35offer this protocol with all the
28:37solutions, okay? The typical "I want to
28:40book a trip" or "a hotel," which you
28:42can make interesting.
28:44Yes, yes, it's super cool.
28:45That you can provide information, that
28:47you can train that agent a little bit,
28:49and that it can resolve doubts
28:51regarding your business. What it
28:53doesn't know, well, look, "I have no
28:54idea, but a colleague will call you" or
28:56"now a colleague will assist you, let
28:57me put you through to a colleague" or
28:59colleague. It's like a type of chatbot
29:01you can ask anything you want about
29:03your business, using all the
29:04information you've uploaded to it. I
29:06imagine this will obviously be a paid
29:08service, because this is supercharged
29:10when you look at the landing.
29:13Yes, I think so, and besides, it says
29:15here "find a partner," okay? It's kind
29:17of like Google AdSense or Analytics
29:19where it gives you general info,
29:21resources, a very nice landing page,
29:23and it says "find a partner" to
29:24integrate with RCS.
29:28And in fact, well here there are, I
29:30don't know, look, Adobe is a partner,
29:32Twilio and
29:34but but let's see,
29:37a partner to integrate with that
29:38protocol, but I think they will
29:40integrate it themselves within Google
29:41Business Profile.
29:42Exactly. Yes. Well, the protocol, you
29:45won't need a partner,
29:46right? No, for RCS, a partner is only
29:48if you want a custom solution on your
29:50website, but that protocol...Correct.
29:53Sure. Exactly. But what File is seeing
29:55will be
29:56that is what it seems they have
29:58developed, a client for that protocol
30:00to interact in that way,
30:02which is very good. But it really
30:04frustrates me because even when Google
30:06makes a mistake and launches something
30:08like that ahead of time, which it
30:10looked like, across the pond they can
30:12explore it and here they cut us off. I
30:15mean, they make mistakes here more or
30:17less. Or what's going on with Europe?
30:20Do they have a grudge against us?
30:22Yes, yes,
30:23bad Google. Well, it is what it is.
30:25They roll out by country and also based
30:27on regulations. Basically, you've seen
30:30the fuss in the UK and
30:32in Germany. Oh, oh, what did Germany
30:35say? What happened in Germany, by the
30:36way?
30:37Of course, it's because we earn it; in
30:39the end, the only thing we do here is
30:41regulate. We regulate very well.
30:44Regulate, regulate would be
30:46like how we're regulating.
30:48Eh, sure, from here we have already
30:49launched the new law to regulate
30:51everything regarding artificial
30:53intelligence. Now if you have an agent
30:55that answers the phone, it has to say,
30:57"Hi, I am," I don't know if they will
30:59let us enter the wonderful world of
31:01euphemisms and say, "I am a virtual
31:03agent," or something like that, you
31:05have to say it directly now. Eh, it's
31:08still a bit vague, but that's the kind
31:09of thing we dedicate ourselves to in
31:11Europe.
31:13And when things happen on the other
31:15side of the pond that we don't control,
31:17we try to control them. What is it?
31:19What happened? What happened with
31:20Germany? I like the Germans in that
31:22sense.
31:23Yes, yes. Now they've impressed me; it
31:26turns out the Munich regional court
31:28said, "Hey, these AI Overviews
31:31responses you generate with artificial
31:34intelligence are very good, but of
31:36course, when you invent data and attack
31:39, not deliberately, but
31:41and it affects
31:43and it affects a company and you are
31:45saying that this company is a scam or
31:47that it scams its users and it's not
31:49real and there are no sources that
31:51state such a thing. Well, now this
31:54court has said," No, no, here you are
31:56responsible for what you say, not the
31:57users. "You can't delegate because
32:00there is simply no one to delegate to,
32:02because you made it all up. These
32:04hallucinations are all on you." Exactly
32:06.
32:07Slave to your own words, Google.
32:09Exactly. And this seems very reasonable
32:12to me. I mean, in the end, just like
32:14you have the right to be forgotten, you
32:16have the right to claim that you are
32:17speaking ill of me when there is no one
32:19speaking ill of me. It's just that you
32:21made it up. That can't be right. You
32:23pulled it out of thin air.
32:25Wonderful.
32:26And you've created a reputational
32:27problem. And now you have to take
32:29responsibility for the problem you've
32:30generated. Because with this, on one
32:33hand, you're making billions,
32:36but the problem you cause has to come
32:38out of that same pocket, at the very
32:40least. And I applaud it very strongly
32:44too,
32:44until my palms are sore. This should be
32:48a European directive, transposed for
32:51all countries and implemented.
32:53It will be, it will be. Like the
32:55plastic cap attached to the bottle. Yes
32:57,
32:58it's so annoying, it drives me crazy,
32:59it's followed,
33:01it makes me mad, I mean, it's a good
33:03thing, but every time I open the milk
33:05carton, because it's attached, the milk
33:07splashes in my face. I mean, the drops
33:09left on the cap bounce back at you.
33:13And you don't like it? I don't like it.
33:16In fact, I have to break it a little so
33:18it has more slack, you know, so it
33:19stays in place. I think it's fine. It's
33:22a laudable initiative, that's what it
33:23is. What happens with AI will be
33:26similar. You'll see, it will splash in
33:28our faces. But anyway.
33:30Oh,
33:30and
33:31hey, what else? Because we have...Well,
33:34let's see, one more. Alright, let's go.
33:37Well, we have Gemini's connection with
33:39Google Business Profile, also another
33:40connection
33:43Analytics too, to measure traffic with
33:45AI, which seems to be...I'll just
33:47mention that they seem to be a bit
33:49confused still, mixing referral traffic
33:51with AI assistant, which is
33:54new to them and they don't know which
33:56traffic is which.
33:58I say this because if you see your
33:59Assistant traffic graphs dropping, it's
34:01because it's putting it into referral.
34:03Okay, I haven't encountered any yet,
34:05but cases have appeared out there.
34:07And, what else? And, well, the Search
34:10Console thing, right? Finally, we have
34:11the one I wanted,
34:13small data points within Search Console
34:16at the impression level. That's it.
34:19Small data points. Exactly. That is the
34:22word.
34:23They’ve shown just the tip.
34:26Well, I mean, seriously, Google, let's
34:29see.
34:29Yeah.
34:30I went to Search Console. which I've
34:33really toned down lately, so I don't
34:35check it every day anymore. So, uh,
34:37every once in a while I go in and take
34:39a look and so on
34:41and I went to Search Console hoping to
34:44find useful information that I could
34:46interpret and whatnot.
34:49When I got there, I saw I already had
34:51the module, which isn't out for
34:52everyone yet.
34:53That's what I was going to say, I
34:54haven't seen it yet.
34:56Well, I have it in some accounts, the
34:58ones with the most traffic in general.
35:01Mhm.
35:02And I saw that it only had impressions.
35:06Right. I thought, "So what do I do with
35:08this now?" I mean, I patted myself on
35:11the back a bit, congratulated myself
35:12because there were a few thousand
35:14impressions, and I could see which URLs
35:16were generating the most. From there
35:19you could interpolate some clicks, I
35:22guess, I don't know, but as for the
35:24topics that are working best for you,
35:27well, it's better than nothing. In the
35:30land of the blind, the one-eyed man is
35:33king, as they say,
35:35so you have something. It just felt
35:36like so little,
35:38of course,
35:39so little, after so long giving them
35:42information to use with their AI
35:45overview. It’s been over a year now,
35:49over a year. And now
35:51you pay me like this, taking away
35:53traffic on one side and giving me
35:55information with an eyedropper on the
35:57other. I'm not angry. I won't say I'm
36:00angry because I don't get angry easily
36:02anymore,
36:04but disappointed, perhaps.
36:08Of course, for me there's a very basic
36:09explanation: they don't want to show
36:11data that proves they're eating up our
36:13traffic.
36:15Bing has it easier. Bing is just going
36:18all in. Well, they've had a recent
36:20update too, right? With the topics, the
36:23intents, and so on. Exactly, they have
36:25nothing to hide. The more I give you,
36:27the more people I bring into my
36:29ecosystem, right? Or I make myself more
36:32relevant for SEO experts to come to my
36:36platform and work there. But, of course
36:39, if you're giving me impressions, give
36:40me something more. It's like, why won't
36:43you give me more, man? Well, firstly
36:46because they don't feel like it, and
36:48secondly because we'll see the drops in
36:50CTR and traffic, right? This is what's
36:53dropping. We don't want them to have
36:54the data yet. Slowly but surely,
36:56releasing it.
36:57Well, then control of
37:00Expectation management, mass control,
37:02uh, I don't know what they're aiming
37:05for, but inadvertently we've gotten
37:07into the topic of today's episode,
37:09which isn't bad. We're over half an
37:11hour into the episode
37:12and we've already jumped right in.
37:14What is GEO versus SEO? SEO versus GEO.
37:19Uh, there's rebranding. Uh, what's
37:22happening here? Good Lord, because
37:28because I don't quite understand it yet
37:30. You work at an agency, I also work at
37:36an agency,
37:38tell me, do clients come up to you and
37:40say, "do GEO for me"?
37:43No,
37:44it's a bubble. Right now, what's
37:48happening to me is the FOMO and the
37:50shiny object syndrome of the CMO on
37:52duty or the CEO on duty who searches
37:54for themselves on generative engines.
37:57And the question is, why don't I appear
38:00, or why does so-and-so appear, and
38:02what can we do? It's not so much "do
38:05GEO," it's "what can we do" and is this
38:07actually useful, right? Of course,
38:09since it's being talked about so much
38:11every single day, uh, there's new
38:13information, uh, people on LinkedIn
38:14seem to think there's nothing else.
38:17Well, obviously that eventually reaches
38:18the higher-ups, and then the higher-ups
38:20press the button or pick up the red
38:21phone and say, "hey, what can we do
38:23here?" And what we do is educate. Hey,
38:27we're talking about a zero point
38:29something percent of the traffic you're
38:31receiving. You have to keep it in mind,
38:34you have to start preparing, we're on
38:36it, we're tinkering with tools,
38:38developing our own tools, our own
38:39methodologies to include it within our
38:41procedures, because that was another
38:42thing, right? Of, well, here we have
38:45agencies, inevitably we have an
38:47opportunity for upselling or
38:48cross-selling, right? Now I'm going to
38:51do a GEO audit, uh, strategies within
38:53ChatGPT or whatever, and we've realized
38:55that it makes no sense because
38:57ultimately this is going to be
38:59integrated as just another pillar
39:01within digital marketing strategies,
39:03okay? With a focus on SEO and web
39:04positioning, because at the end of the
39:05day, Google is the first one who said
39:07it, right? Good SEO is good GEO. GEO is
39:09good SEO. So, uh, we do a lot of
39:12education in this sense of, watch out,
39:14be careful, don't lose sight of what's
39:16important because you're focusing on a
39:17laughable percentage of traffic that
39:19converts better. That is also true.
39:22Looking at the stats, the engagement
39:24rate for key events is usually above
39:26average because, naturally, the user
39:28arrives already trained; they’re
39:30going straight for the target, right?
39:33All the prospecting, all the commercial
39:35research has already been done for you.
39:36New brother-in-law.
39:37Exactly. And so, it’s not like they
39:40come asking for a quarter pound of SEO,
39:42a quarter pound of SEO like in the old
39:44days, right? With the links. Give me
39:46three quarters of links and a bit of
39:48semantics, and no, no,
39:50but it is true that they are worried.
39:52Now, it also depends a lot on the type
39:54of sector, the type of client, but
39:57it’s not happening like it used to,
39:59right? The quarter pound, no, no, no,
40:01not for now, but we are doing a lot of
40:03education because we are seeing a lot
40:04of that fear, right? Saying, wow, why
40:06does so-and-so appear but I don’t? Or
40:08for what prompts? Of course, try
40:10debating that with them too. Hmm. How
40:13to do prompt tracking? Which is another
40:16story.
40:16That’s another, that’s another. You
40:17know what happens? Since there isn’t
40:19much data beyond what ChatGPT gives us
40:23regarding visits, because they do tag
40:26the traffic they send you with UTMs,
40:29you don’t have much more information
40:31on the traffic arriving at your site.
40:34And then the fact that traffic is
40:36becoming difficult to measure for the
40:38reasons we’re saying, and then
40:40because those mentions—all those
40:43impressions I saw yesterday in Search
40:45Console, in SGE, and in AI Overviews—
40:50often end up generating brand searches.
40:55This was also mentioned in the talk;
40:57it’s something you can’t track. If
41:00you are, because you’ve worked on
41:03your content for a long time to become
41:05a topical authority in a certain
41:08vertical, you have content that
41:10you’ve already proven is quality to
41:12Google and, in fact, it has ranked it
41:15well. Now what ends up happening is
41:18that you appear mentioned in the AI
41:20Overview many times because you’ve
41:21already proven that quality of your
41:23content and that you are a reliable
41:24source. Those constant mentions around
41:28a topic are what then generate a search
41:31for your brand to solve the problem the
41:34user has. It’s not a huge increase,
41:38but I have noticed it. So, I know they
41:41come from there. You lose clicks, but
41:43you gain mentions, and those recurring
41:46mentions around a problem are very
41:48valuable. This is advertising as it’s
41:51always been. This is about getting
41:53yourself a little bit into the eh top
41:56of mind. It helps you get into the top
41:58of
41:58repeating the message. If you appear 20
42:00times, it’s because you might be the
42:02solution to that problem.
42:03Yeah. And appearing linked to a series
42:06of ideas or concepts that are the ones
42:08you’re interested in. And I say this
42:11is traditional advertising because we
42:13were discussing it off-mic earlier,
42:16uh, we were talking about the Rexona
42:17case, for example, at the World Cup.
42:20All the sponsors going to the World Cup
42:22, what they want is to be there at the
42:24right moment, to appear at the right
42:26moment, whether covered or not covered
42:28by a tarp, which is another topic
42:30that’s currently relevant, but I
42:32don’t want to go there. When you are
42:35there at the right moment, things
42:37happen that you can’t measure in
42:40Search Console,
42:42but they are very important and later
42:44lead to that brand search to solve the
42:47problem. It’s almost as valuable as
42:49appearing at number one or more. I
42:52would even dare to say so, because what
42:55you were saying happens, where the user
42:58is already placing trust in what AI
43:01overviews say, for example, or what the
43:04prompt says, or what ChatGPT says, or
43:07that LLM in question,
43:09call it what you want. And of course,
43:12that increases the conversion of all
43:14that. It is very important, in that
43:18sense, that we focus on doing quality
43:21SEO; because if we realize, although
43:23some things have changed at a technical
43:26level, we are really still on the same
43:29track of doing things right: focused on
43:32the user, focused on generating
43:34satisfaction, on the quality of the
43:37content, even if it is a very ethereal
43:40concept that we have also discussed on
43:43this podcast. And that way of doing
43:48things is what then yields the results
43:50that end up converting. But notice that
43:53all the brands that are appearing now
43:55in the World Cup, Rexona, we said
43:57it’s striking because of how it’s
43:59being promoted. Rexona appears during
44:02player substitutions or when the
44:04scoreboard is raised to signal extra
44:07time, stoppage time, uh, when the match
44:09ends or at half--time
44:13and it appears on the time or
44:16substitution scoreboard and on the
44:19armpits of the assistant who raises the
44:23scoreboard, which I find glorious.
44:26It’s sublime, it’s really well
44:28thought out. The use case is when you
44:31raise your arms, make sure you smell
44:33good.
44:34And it’s a good thing Camacho isn’t
44:36in this World Cup, because otherwise I
44:38assure you he would have received a
44:39millionaire offer
44:41for his armpits.
44:42Man,
44:43I’m sure of it. And Rexona would have
44:46seen it. I have faith in Rexona. Sure.
44:50Well, all those brands aren't there so
44:53that when you see Rexona, you go online
44:56, search, and buy deodorant from Rexona
44:59. They're there for what we were saying
45:02, so that when you have to go get
45:04deodorant and see Rexona on the shelf,
45:06you say, "Hey, look, yeah, Rexona
45:08sounds like a good idea.""You've been
45:11hearing it for so long, seeing it for
45:13so long, that you associate it with
45:14quality, you associate it with—and
45:15then you don't think." What is it? 2 or
45:193 euros more, man,
45:21it's Rexona.
45:22Into the cart, it's Rexona. They appear
45:25on the shelf. Well, uh,
45:28the repetition of the message builds
45:30trust, habit, and routine, and that's
45:31it. And this is essentially the same
45:34thing.
45:34That's what's being achieved.
45:37Regarding the debate on whether it's
45:40SEO or GEO, we have to change the name.
45:45I'd say that SEO is highly resilient. I
45:49mean, if we talked earlier about how
45:51the SEO agency has endured, you have to
45:54know that the term SEO has suffered
45:56constant attacks throughout its history
45:58.
45:59I mean, back in 2008, they tried to
46:04change the meaning of SEO in this case,
46:07shifting it from Search Engine
46:09Optimization to Search Experience
46:12Optimization. Someone proposed it—I
46:17don't recall the name right now—but
46:19that redefinition of the term was
46:20proposed. The SEO community didn't
46:24accept it, so SEO remained SEO just as
46:27it was in the beginning. This happened
46:29at the moment when user experience
46:32became part of the algorithm, which was
46:34later seen in RankBrain and other
46:36signals that Google takes into account.
46:39In 2012, that's when SXO appeared.
46:45Someone a bit defeatist, in my opinion
46:48—because I would have kept grinding
46:51away to redefine SEO—someone a bit
46:54defeatist whose surname (this one I do
46:57remember) was Potter, I suppose, I
47:00don't know, a close or distant relative
47:03of Harry, wrote an article and said we
47:07needed something that referred
47:10to that user experience, that
47:12post-click, uh, which
47:14was no longer considered part of SEO,
47:17which I think is a mistake because,
47:20look, if user experience affects
47:23rankings with those post-click signals,
47:26we can't exclude it from SEO. It's as
47:29if SEO only went up to the ranking,
47:32and once we’ve achieved the ranking,
47:34well, then
47:36everything else isn't part of SEO.
47:39However, the entire post-click
47:40experience is what feeds back into the
47:42algorithm so that you keep moving up,
47:44moving down, or staying put,
47:46which is basically RankBrain.
47:48Correct. So, SXO was created, which is
47:52like a separate discipline to look
47:54after user experience, CTR, everything
48:01done on-page, even CRO, UX, all of that
48:04is contained within SXO, which to me
48:08makes no sense. To me, it's all just
48:11SEO. If you want to keep growing, you
48:14can't neglect UX because it affects
48:18it feeds back into the algorithm and
48:20affects rankings. Ergo, it's SEO. It's
48:25a branch specialized in certain
48:27technical actions, but it's still the
48:29same thing,
48:31and not so technical now
48:33due to this UX part.
48:38Search has changed a lot, SERPs have
48:40changed a lot, and we've changed the
48:42way we do SEO. At one point, the
48:46zero-click module appeared, the direct
48:50answer one,
48:52answer
48:52before the AI Overview, which it seems
48:54like didn't even exist,
48:55or maybe it did. They would take an
48:59excerpt from your article, put it right
49:01there,
49:03they cited you, linked to you, but the
49:06click started to disappear, which is a
49:08module I had always liked a lot. In
49:11fact, something curious is happening to
49:14me with a client; with several
49:16informative articles that get a lot of
49:19traffic, we do a weekly analysis of the
49:22project's evolution, and we see, every
49:25other week, that those same articles
49:28always spike up, drop down, even
49:30creating that same traffic difference
49:33with the featured snippet and now with
49:36overviews. What's happening to us is
49:39that sometimes we would appear in the
49:41featured snippet and traffic would
49:42skyrocket, the following week it would
49:44drop, and now with the change to
49:45overviews, it's extremely similar. Very
49:47curious.
49:48Similar. It's just the
49:50it's a very similar module. The thing
49:53is, with AI Overviews, it's rewritten
49:55to get a little bit more straight to
49:57the point. With that featured snippet
50:00from your web content,
50:02the only thing they could do was cite
50:04the content.
50:05Exactly as it was. If your writing
50:07wasn't optimal, that's what you got.
50:11That's what there was. How was that
50:13done to appear in that featured snippet
50:16? Well, you had to write or phrase
50:18things in a certain way so that Google
50:20would understand that semantics and
50:22give a direct answer to the user's
50:24question
50:25without beating around the bush.
50:27But that's just common sense. When I
50:30have someone in front of me to whom I
50:32ask a question and they start beating
50:34around the bush, as I consider myself a
50:35polite guy, well,
50:38I endure it, I endure it, but inside I
50:40want to leave. Inside, I mean, well,
50:43you keep your speech, and then maybe
50:44I'll come back later to see if you've
50:46decided to give me the answer to what I
50:47asked or if you're going to keep
50:49dodging the question. I don't like
50:51people who beat around the bush.
50:53Well, Google must feel exactly the same
50:55, and that should be part of the SEO
50:58strategy. If I want that featured
51:01position, I know I have to give a
51:03direct answer to the users 'concerns.
51:07That's how it works, and that is SEO,
51:09beyond your URL being indexable,
51:13uh, having links pointing to it, having
51:16a sitemap, or having more or fewer
51:18links—all of that is SEO. Well, now
51:22appearing in that AI Overview should
51:25also be SEO,
51:27being the favorite answer or being
51:29cited by LLMs—I’m not making this
51:32up right now, Google has already said
51:34it,
51:36answer directly,
51:39it's content quality, it's the same
51:41concept of quality. And we are seeing
51:45many experiments on how to manipulate
51:47this, and you only need a comment on
51:48Reddit to totally change the
51:50orientation of an answer. And I think
51:53it's spectacular and also dangerous,
51:55obviously. I mean,
51:58well, Reddit, yes, it's also dangerous,
52:00but look, this brings me to the idea
52:02that we’ve returned to '98, to '97-
52:04'98, when Google started, and as we
52:06talked about in a previous episode
52:08regarding the concept of quality,
52:12which is still being maintained—it's
52:14that same concept of quality, but
52:16measured in another way. Now they are
52:18much more capable of evaluating quality
52:21for users. Before, they interpreted it
52:24based on the links a certain page
52:26received, but that started to evolve
52:29until they were able to measure many
52:32other things. But as a result of this,
52:35curious things happen with links, for
52:38example, links or mentions. I don't
52:40even dare to call them links anymore
52:42because I think that even without the "
52:43do follow,"
52:44it would still happen. it would still
52:47happen. Uh, I’ve encountered
52:50situations that I find very rewarding
52:52because now, of course, the outreach
52:55for those mentions, for those links,
52:57has to be much more elaborate.
53:01You have to find real, justified media.
53:03Yes, yes. And I have some projects
53:08where, with a single link, I’ve moved
53:11keywords to the top three
53:14that were on the second page. In the
53:16end,
53:18everything was fine in terms of content
53:20architecture, loading speed, and a
53:22domain with some authority, but let's
53:24say it's a new URL that's struggling
53:26because there's good competition. With
53:29just one well-placed link, in 10 days
53:32it jumped to the top three and now
53:35it’s moving in those positions.
53:38Of course,
53:39I say link, but I could say mention.
53:42This had a follow link, but I think a
53:44good mention would also work. And when
53:48I say link, I also apply it to mentions
53:51because it's not just the link, the
53:53link comes with a mention of the brand,
53:56the author, the article being linked to
53:59; it’s well-crafted, the publication
54:02is justified, it’s quality, it’s in
54:05a quality outlet, what could go wrong?
54:09Well, it's working, it's working better
54:12than I remembered it working some time
54:15ago. In fact, it’s about totally
54:20changing the link-building concept;
54:23you’re now doing public relations,
54:26and as such, the value I offer with the
54:29content must be greater than the
54:32economic cost of buying that paid
54:35advertising, right? So, when you
54:38achieve that, you're giving them
54:40material that adds value to the outlet,
54:42which is great for them because they
54:44don't have to create it. And they have
54:46that exclusivity in terms of content.
54:48If you manage that, you've got it made.
54:51That was the general direction when we
54:53generated that content. The strategy I
54:57follow right now is, once I've selected
55:00a medium based on its apparent quality
55:04for Google—analyzing factors like
55:07outbound links, the ratio of follow/
55:10no-follow links, and traffic URLs
55:13versus links—I do this, in my case I
55:16do it with Ahrefs. Once I evaluate the
55:21outlet and see it has potential, then I
55:24evaluate its audience and what article
55:27I could provide to them
55:30that connects their audience with my
55:33product or service. That,
55:36done this way,
55:38has no flaws, the plan has no cracks.
55:42Actually, the easiest thing for someone
55:44wondering, "But obviously, to create
55:46content like that, I have to think
55:48about it a lot." Just think about
55:50current events and how you, as an
55:52expert in your field, can provide a
55:55quote. That's it,
55:56that would be all.
55:57You don't need anything more. It’s
55:58actually simple if you know a little
56:01bit about how to structure it,
56:03but it works well. The outlet accepts
56:06your post quickly, they're happy with
56:08the content because it's, uh, tailored
56:11to their audience, everything works,
56:14and with a link or a mention, you get
56:16great results on your site for
56:18transactional URLs. Uh, I think people
56:23are still doing it very poorly. I mean,
56:26I still see those outlets that are now
56:29link farms; uh, I often still see posts
56:33with exact keyword anchors. Well, for
56:38locksmiths, I can't tell you how often
56:41that happens, uh, that idea planted
56:44years ago by SEOs, I heard it a lot in
56:47the niche sector.
56:50That, no, the article where you put the
56:53link has to be able to rank for the
56:56same search you're trying to rank for.
57:00I think that has done a lot of damage,
57:03because, of course, it limits you a lot
57:05in terms of topics. You have to find an
57:08outlet that will admit an article
57:10talking about locksmiths in Madrid. And
57:15of course,
57:15of course,
57:16you've got it tough there.
57:18The good thing is, if you pay and the
57:20other party doesn't value their outlet,
57:24they'll publish it for you, but that's
57:26short-term gain and long-term pain,
57:28because that outlet
57:31that doesn't value itself, that has a
57:33self-esteem problem, will accept other
57:35disgusting articles like yours, and
57:37tomorrow, uh, it will devalue, and that
57:40link won't be worth anything. or that
57:43mention
57:44and you will lose the authority you
57:46might have temporarily gained.
57:48Uh, what can I tell you? I think we're
57:53in a golden age for doing all these
57:56things right.
57:58Hm. And in fact, it opens the door to
58:01setting up your own network of outlets
58:03or simply a sector-specific outlet
58:05where you are the benchmark. That is, I
58:08was talking about this with a client,
58:10and I said, "Hey, we could take all
58:12those topics you don't want to publish
58:14because they're sensitive, but that, uh
58:15, ultimately attract traffic and that
58:17your competition is doing, hey, set up
58:19a blog, a digital magazine for your
58:21sector, and publish them there.""And it
58:23could be built as a media outlet
58:25specialized in that sector, okay?" that
58:28gains authority and, in the end, is
58:30exclusive to you. I mean, it's no
58:32longer just thinking, "I'm going to
58:35look out there to see what's in the
58:37field and which trees I'm going to pick
58:39from to publish content." No, build
58:42your own outlet; it's easier than ever
58:44now, it can be done with programmatic
58:47SEO, with AI, you can automate
58:48everything, okay? And then you just
58:50curate and perfect it, but you would
58:52have an outlet exclusive to you. You've
58:54already got a mention there, okay? So
58:56that's it, replicate it, okay? Instead
58:59of spending 10, 20,000 euros on
59:01a modern PBN.
59:03Sure, but, well, done right. Exactly,
59:04that's what I'm getting at. I, for
59:06example, uh, for those who don't know,
59:08I have a blog called coh1.com and the
59:10goal is that, to give a voice to
59:12experts and professionals in the sector
59:15to come and publish, but my ultimate
59:17goal is to have a reference medium,
59:19okay? So, damn, if media don't exist or
59:23it's hard for me to get links, I'll set
59:25up my own medium, generate valuable
59:27content, knock on many doors so they
59:29come and collaborate, okay? And at the
59:32same time, they link to themselves so
59:34their author profile and their own
59:37articles gain authority. And in the end
59:39, what I have is a digital magazine
59:42that serves to promote and generate
59:44mentions in the future, right? But well
59:46, take that same example to any sector.
59:48It can be done.
59:49It's labor-intensive, huh? No, it's not
59:51a trivial task. You have to be willing
59:53to hustle, and not everyone wants to.
59:56What I find is people who say, no, I
59:58just want to be number one. Are we
1:00:00there yet?
1:00:01Uh, well no, we still have a long way
1:00:03to go, like kids when you're on a road
1:00:05trip. That's what usually happens. And
1:00:08then you find good clients who value it
1:00:09, who understand the project, and it's
1:00:11a pleasure to work with them. Yes, that
1:00:13too. But they are usually busy with
1:00:16their own things, and asking them to
1:00:18create a medium—I really like the
1:00:20idea, but I'm thinking about doing it
1:00:22myself and I'm sweating. Well, maybe
1:00:26that's also the temperature, but
1:00:27yes, it can be approached in many ways,
1:00:29right? But for me, for example, with
1:00:31this client I was talking to, I said,
1:00:33but you keep talking about generating
1:00:34new blogs for every one of your
1:00:36business verticals. Damn, well, instead
1:00:39of allocating that money this year to
1:00:41set up your 19th blog, set up an
1:00:43external one. Exactly.
1:00:46And besides, they could actually do it
1:00:48because they have many freelancers who
1:00:50depend on them and who could contribute
1:00:52. I mean, there are formulas. No, it
1:00:54doesn't need to be excessively
1:00:56pretentious, just a portal, man, a
1:00:58simple little blog and you already have
1:01:00it yours, you'll build it up as you go.
1:01:03It doesn't mean it has to be done
1:01:05overnight, but if you build it in
1:01:07parallel, well, in two or three years
1:01:09you have a decent medium, you know? And
1:01:11that no one else has, that your
1:01:12competition doesn't have. Sure, many
1:01:14agencies have done this in the past,
1:01:16right? You mentioned it before, the
1:01:18topic of PBNs; well, let's build niches
1:01:20and niches of all topics, of all
1:01:21sectors we work for. Of course, done in
1:01:24that way. Here I am talking about
1:01:26building a media outlet with decent
1:01:28quality, something you wouldn't be
1:01:30ashamed to share. Okay.
1:01:32Your journalistic background is showing
1:01:35.
1:01:37Yes, yes. I don't think we have that
1:01:39same drive as the others, and believe
1:01:41me, I like
1:01:43the educational part,
1:01:45but, boy, doing that well...
1:01:48And I like doing things well, but doing
1:01:50things well takes a lot of work. So,
1:01:53wow, uh, I'll visit you at CH1 and
1:01:55write something good. To everyone who
1:01:59wants to, the doors are open; I mean,
1:02:01it's there for that, to promote
1:02:03ourselves and share our experience, and
1:02:06not just that, to provide value and
1:02:08cases of...
1:02:09A call, a call to the audience of this
1:02:12podcast. Uh, this medium CH1 exists,
1:02:16and there, if you provide value, there
1:02:18is a place for you.
1:02:19Exactly. And that's it. It's all for
1:02:21the community. G. I like it. So, take
1:02:25this idea to any other sector, make it
1:02:27more or less complex, but take
1:02:29advantage of it if it can be done super
1:02:31fast today. It's another thing if it
1:02:35takes you more or less time to rank,
1:02:37but in the end, you have a
1:02:38hyper-specialized niche in a topic that
1:02:40fits what you want to promote. Well,
1:02:44I'm not saying you should constantly
1:02:45put content and links for your same
1:02:47client, but man,
1:02:50you can work it. Sure, let's wrap up
1:02:53the episode, but I want to close it
1:02:56with some data I have noted here, uh,
1:03:00that will support a bit that GEO versus
1:03:04SEO idea, because I think we've blown
1:03:07it out of proportion. I mean, now, as I
1:03:10told you before and as R. Fishkin said,
1:03:12right?,which is a bit...
1:03:13h
1:03:16uh, this GEO bubble is the result of
1:03:19certain interests from influencers who
1:03:22have pushed the term a lot and the idea
1:03:25that the use of LLMs is massive, which,
1:03:28mind you, it is, but it's not as much
1:03:31when you compare it to the use of
1:03:34Google. In fact, there is data that
1:03:38supports that people who regularly use
1:03:40—and understand regularly as more
1:03:42than 10 times a month—an artificial
1:03:45intelligence like an LLM,
1:03:48That's not a very strict criterion; I
1:03:51mean, I use it daily, but let's define
1:03:54adopters as those who use it more than
1:03:5710 times a month, which also leads to
1:04:00greater Google usage due to the
1:04:02alternative use of LLMs. And there is
1:04:08data that, well, we know Google still
1:04:11holds a share of over 90%as a search
1:04:14engine, but if we measure it
1:04:16differently, comparing Google usage
1:04:19versus ChatGPT usage, for example, the
1:04:22data changes a bit. Let me look for the
1:04:26data. Exactly. Because
1:04:29it's curious. Look, wait, I've lost
1:04:36track of it.
1:04:38While you look for it, I'll take the
1:04:40opportunity to say forget about the
1:04:41llms.txt.
1:04:45A recent Ahrefs study analyzed 137,000
1:04:49domains, and 97%of those domains that
1:04:52have that file aren't visited by anyone
1:04:55. Okay, because I'm seeing this a lot,
1:05:00I'm seeing it a lot in audits, on
1:05:02LinkedIn, and the LLM file is always
1:05:05useless. In fact, we added it to our
1:05:08agency a long time ago, right? When
1:05:10people started talking about it, just
1:05:12to see what would happen, and nothing,
1:05:14zero. Yes, the documentation for
1:05:16developers has been released to give
1:05:18instructions to the AI on how to use
1:05:20the web, but at an agentic level, not
1:05:22for positioning or anything like that.
1:05:25And well, Google has already totally
1:05:26denied it, right? That it's useless for
1:05:28now.
1:05:28Sure, but if Google already has to read
1:05:31your site to index it, it already
1:05:32perfectly understands what's inside.
1:05:35Uh, what good is it for you to come
1:05:37along and tell me what I have to do?
1:05:40Who are you to tell me what I have to
1:05:43do with your content?
1:05:45Exactly,
1:05:46and how I have to manage it. It's just
1:05:48like meta keywords. Who are you to tell
1:05:51me which keywords I should rank this
1:05:53URL for? Sure, in fact, for example,
1:05:57Shopify stores do generate it
1:05:59automatically, but because there has to
1:06:02be an agent behind it that uses that
1:06:04page, and it has to know what it can
1:06:06and can't do, and it gives instructions
1:06:09on how to interpret how the web works,
1:06:14how it can be used for training, for
1:06:15example, but they are technical
1:06:17instructions on what an agent can do
1:06:19with that webpage, but the content, it
1:06:21already sees the content.
1:06:24Even so, it's barely downloaded. Look,
1:06:27the fact is that in terms of searches,
1:06:30as a search engine, Google clearly
1:06:32exceeds 90%of the market share
1:06:34worldwide, but regionally, there are
1:06:36even areas like the UK where it reaches
1:06:39almost 92%. And it's not losing share.
1:06:43In fact, the use of Google is
1:06:45increasing; it's being used more.
1:06:48I suppose AI Overviews are also helping
1:06:50because it's becoming the go-to search
1:06:52engine for solving problems. If I ask a
1:06:55question for the AI Overviews, and now
1:06:57recently since Google I/O, it allows
1:06:58you to continue the conversation within
1:07:00the AI Overview and generate tailored
1:07:02answers.
1:07:03Very interesting. So you stay there
1:07:05until you convert, and it increases the
1:07:07time spent on Google, which is also
1:07:09very interesting. But there is another
1:07:11there is another metric that I really
1:07:13like,
1:07:15but only if it's understood well,
1:07:16because it can be like mixing apples
1:07:17and oranges, and that's a problem. The
1:07:21data says, this First Page Sage
1:07:24estimates that looking at the total
1:07:26volume of digital queries—we have to
1:07:29understand these aren't just searches,
1:07:31they are digital queries, questions of
1:07:34all kinds, any type of interaction with
1:07:36search engines or generative ones. It
1:07:41says Google has 78%and ChatGPT, which
1:07:48is the most installed or most used LLM
1:07:52today, but losing share at a gallop,
1:07:56has 17%in Q2 of 2026. Hmm.
1:08:00Right, clearly, the thing is that of
1:08:03those digital queries on ChatGPT, only
1:08:07a very small percentage could be
1:08:09transferred to Google as a search
1:08:12engine. Others might be, well, I woke
1:08:15up on the wrong side of the bed today,
1:08:17I feel bad, I'm not motivated, what can
1:08:19I do, tell me nice things.
1:08:21Which is something I did yesterday to
1:08:23test a Hermes agent I set up on my home
1:08:25server; one of the things you can do is
1:08:27program tasks for it. And I was telling
1:08:29it that. Hmm. Every X minutes, I want a
1:08:32compliment. A compliment. Today I feel
1:08:34like having someone say nice things to
1:08:36me, and my wife is grumpy. Why not? Hey
1:08:40,
1:08:40just to test it out. Well, people use
1:08:42LLMs for that. So we are overlapping
1:08:46data under the term "digital queries."
1:08:51But just because 17%of digital queries
1:08:53are made on ChatGPT doesn't mean those
1:08:55same queries would work on Google. On
1:08:58Google.
1:08:58You don't go to Google to say, "I'm
1:09:00feeling a bit under the weather today,
1:09:01pat me on the back." It doesn't work;
1:09:04everyone uses Google for a very
1:09:05specific purpose. However,
1:09:08we ask generative AIs for more things,
1:09:10like keeping us company,
1:09:12those of us who don't have them, and
1:09:14when the kids are at school, well,
1:09:17well, sometimes we do those kinds of
1:09:19things. So, we can't put all digital
1:09:23queries into the same bag. In that
1:09:27sense, the data says that the traffic
1:09:29Chat GPT generates, although it
1:09:31converts super well and is the most
1:09:33measurable today because it's tagged by
1:09:35UTMs,
1:09:36it converts very well, but it's around
1:09:381%of the traffic that your website
1:09:42might have. Approx, okay? For
1:09:44Yes. projects more in specific cases,
1:09:47projects less because they haven't done
1:09:49anything well and so they have traffic
1:09:51from another source. Uh, we are trying
1:09:54to uh link organic search traffic
1:09:59versus Chat GPT traffic. Let's say 1%.
1:10:04The share is also around 1%. The share
1:10:07of searches that matched it, okay?
1:10:11Knowing that Bing has a 4%market share
1:10:14and that I haven't lifted a finger to
1:10:17position myself on Bing, why would I
1:10:20have to do it and sweat to start
1:10:22appearing on Chat GPT? And I say Chat
1:10:26GPT, and I say Gemini or I say
1:10:29Perplexity or something like that.
1:10:31Exactly. It's what I was telling you
1:10:33before about being educational, that is
1:10:35, watch out, be careful, because we are
1:10:37talking about a laughable percentage
1:10:38for now
1:10:39and allocating resources. Of course,
1:10:41of course. I mean, beyond what you've
1:10:43done so far, if you've done it well,
1:10:45that's enough,
1:10:48which is what I've been able to prove a
1:10:51bit with that graph of impressions in
1:10:54AI, so many impressions that come from
1:10:56previous good work.
1:10:59Right,
1:11:00did I do GEO?
1:11:01Which is, which is my question. I say,
1:11:03at what point? When I see the graph, I
1:11:04say, "At what point did I do GEO?"
1:11:06Right, it's that nobody has done
1:11:07anything. We've already started
1:11:09receiving it. Why? Because we had done
1:11:11good SEO and the foundation remains the
1:11:13same,
1:11:13because I had worked
1:11:16because I had worked with a strategy,
1:11:18because I had worked with the focus on
1:11:20the user and not on my own navel, for
1:11:22many things, but the result is there
1:11:24and it's not GEO. And if I were to
1:11:27start doing GEO now somehow, which I
1:11:30don't really know how GEO is done, but
1:11:34if I did it, that balance wouldn't move
1:11:37much.
1:11:39Hm. I am absolutely convinced. Now I'm
1:11:42going to keep doing what I've been
1:11:44doing for a long time, which is perhaps
1:11:46what people should learn to do,
1:11:50stop writing articles just any old way,
1:11:55stop using those skyscraper strategies,
1:11:57you know, like if he did it, I'll do it
1:11:59too, but longer. Stop generating
1:12:03articles with AI without any rhyme or
1:12:04reason.
1:12:05Sure,
1:12:06I'm not saying don't generate them with
1:12:08AI. The key is the rhyme or reason part
1:12:09. I mean, "write me an article,""come
1:12:13on,""make it a hit, make it go viral."
1:12:16I mean,
1:12:16with that kind of clickbait. "Yes, give
1:12:19me a lot of that clickbait." Without a
1:12:22strategy, it won't be worth anything.
1:12:24Whether AI writes it, a copywriter
1:12:26writes it, or you write it yourself. I
1:12:29have an interesting case with a project
1:12:31we started 2 years ago where we built a
1:12:34whole new web architecture that
1:12:36expanded all the services because they
1:12:38weren't getting visibility, blah, blah,
1:12:40blah. And of course, it's a typical big
1:12:45company where everything moves
1:12:47extremely slowly; and now, precisely on
1:12:49a project where we're working with
1:12:51HubSpot on one of the parts, they just
1:12:54released an SEO monitoring tool to
1:12:56track traffic. With mentions and such,
1:12:59right? And they showed it to me the
1:13:02other day because we had it a bit
1:13:04restricted, and you had the option to
1:13:06see which are the most cited or
1:13:08mentioned URLs across the set of
1:13:10domains, and what a coincidence. Hey,
1:13:13the most cited URL, by far. I mean,
1:13:17we're talking about maybe the set of
1:13:19URLs having an average of 5 or 10
1:13:21mentions or citations, and this one had
1:13:24almost 300; and it was one of those
1:13:26landings we had specifically planned in
1:13:29the web architecture expansion to
1:13:31provide a solution for the search
1:13:33intent of a specific service, which is
1:13:36also their main one. And of course,
1:13:39they were stunned. "Of course, this is
1:13:41what we need to justify it." I said, "
1:13:43We've been saying what needs to be done
1:13:45for 2 years, and this kept getting
1:13:47delayed, delayed, and now, well, we've
1:13:49stepped on the accelerator because
1:13:51they've gotten their act together and
1:13:53said:' Damn, we have to get this out,
1:13:55let's start validating content because
1:13:57it's getting results. '" He says, "Sure
1:14:00, it’s what we were saying, I mean,
1:14:02we aren't doing anything new, it’s
1:14:04just something that was stalled due to
1:14:05internal issues and such, which is
1:14:07business as usual for large companies."
1:14:10You say: "Look, just by launching this,
1:14:12it’s the most cited URL in two months
1:14:14." And curiously enough, more so in
1:14:17Perplexity; in ChatGPT, Gemini, and the
1:14:19rest, it was more or less the same, but
1:14:22where it had really exploded was in
1:14:24Perplexity, which is precisely used for
1:14:26deep, more thorough research. No,
1:14:29although the others have it too, it was
1:14:31better known for that deep research
1:14:33within the web. What a surprise! Sure,
1:14:36do good SEO and you’ll get good
1:14:37results. That’s it.
1:14:38Do things right. I don’t even dare to
1:14:41say "do good SEO" anymore, just do
1:14:42things with sound judgment. I don't
1:14:46know. Look, to wrap it all up, so you
1:14:48can see:
1:14:49there’s data from SimilarWeb that
1:14:53measures global web visits from LLMs,
1:14:57from the applications, I believe.
1:15:00Uh, it says ChatGPT is at 54.7%, but it
1:15:05has fallen since February 2025, when it
1:15:10was at 76.5%.
1:15:12Yeah, that’s huge.
1:15:13The race is slowing down. However,
1:15:16Gemini is up from 5.6%to—until I find
1:15:21the data—27.4%.
1:15:23Yes, it was close to 30. Yeah.
1:15:25They’re going to cross paths in no
1:15:26time; the graphs are neck and neck.
1:15:29Sure, they’ve already surpassed 1
1:15:30billion users. Well, it’s built into
1:15:32the search engine. I mean, what do you
1:15:33expect? The data I have is 900 million
1:15:36weekly users for ChatGPT, while Gemini
1:15:40has 900 million monthly. For now.
1:15:43I don’t know what they consider
1:15:44Gemini, I think it’s the Gemini app
1:15:46in this case.
1:15:47Yeah. Okay, my point is that I see many
1:15:50people obsessed with appearing in
1:15:52ChatGPT for the very specific question
1:15:54I ask, thinking we are the center of
1:15:57the universe—that if you search that
1:15:59way, everyone is searching that way—
1:16:02but maybe it’s just your ego.
1:16:05This happened to me with a partner of
1:16:06mine who said, "I was in Madrid talking
1:16:08to so-and-so, we searched for ourselves
1:16:10somewhere, and it didn't recommend us,
1:16:12it recommended someone else." Man,
1:16:15don’t ask me to start working on that
1:16:17specific case because I don’t even
1:16:19know how you asked the question, or in
1:16:21what context,
1:16:22or if what you’re even telling me
1:16:24makes any sense. And the work I'm doing
1:16:27on the other side is what's putting
1:16:29food on everyone's table. So please,
1:16:31piano, don't, don't go crazy.
1:16:34And let's keep working because we're
1:16:35doing it right.
1:16:37You need, of course, you need such a
1:16:38large dataset to be able to extract
1:16:40patterns that it's just insurmountable.
1:16:43Well, let's keep working on that, let's
1:16:45look for solutions or ideas, but not to
1:16:47find the absolute truth, but to see
1:16:48which way the wind is blowing and try
1:16:50to get ahead while we keep the fire
1:16:52going where it needs to be.
1:16:54And extremely biased data, I mean, that
1:16:57900 million weekly users thing, okay?
1:16:59Very well. I mean, I’ve seen how my
1:17:02sister-in-law uses Chat GPT. My
1:17:04sister-in-law has caricatures of her
1:17:07kids, her grandson, and family framed
1:17:10in the beach apartment, and you ask her
1:17:14, "And this with Chat GPT?" Yeah, but
1:17:17if you have to look for anything else,
1:17:19that's what Google is for. Ah,
1:17:21so
1:17:23don't panic,
1:17:25keep calm, because that whole millions
1:17:27of users thing doesn't mean anything,
1:17:29they aren't overlapping,
1:17:31it's not the same dataset, it's apples
1:17:34and oranges.
1:17:36Someone making caricatures with Chat
1:17:38GPT isn't a problem for me, and I don't
1:17:40think it is for Google either. So, that
1:17:44war is different, and ours is the one
1:17:46about search or mentions or whatever
1:17:48you want to call it. I don't even dare
1:17:50to say clicks anymore because
1:17:52everything is changing so much.
1:17:53Sales, I was telling you before, in the
1:17:55end, we swap clicks for mentions, for
1:17:57citations, right? Guys, we have to
1:17:59focus on sales and conversions here.
1:18:01That is the North Star. And how we
1:18:03achieve it, we don't care, and the
1:18:05client doesn't care. What they want is
1:18:07to see revenue go up, and profitability
1:18:09above all, because revenue is one thing
1:18:11and profit is another.
1:18:13Yes, the KPI is usually the bank
1:18:15account,
1:18:15exactly. and the in the
1:18:19not there, not there anymore. I just
1:18:22filed my tax return and the data seems
1:18:24very incoherent to me. I say, geez,
1:18:26I’m working a ton, I’m working my
1:18:28tail off, I don’t have a Lambo at the
1:18:31door. Why this palace?
1:18:35I’m sorry, it’s just that it was
1:18:36yesterday. So,
1:18:37ah, I have to get paid, for the first
1:18:38time in my life they’re going to,
1:18:40they’re going to pay me, huh? I can't
1:18:42believe it. Topic of open a pension
1:18:46plan, that solves everything.
1:18:48This month we eat.
1:18:54Anyway, partner, thank you very much.
1:18:57As always, a pleasure.
1:18:59As always. And I don't want to end the
1:19:01podcast without saying goodbye to
1:19:03everyone. A big hug. Until
1:19:07Likewise, partner.

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