Episode #37 | Rachel (Hyde School & Wilderness) — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00yes podcast with your host jordan as
2. 0:02usual um
3. 0:04i would first of all i'd like to
4. 0:06let you guys know that we are almost at
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6. 0:10i might be wrong but i believe it's like
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15. 0:30would also like to do
16. 0:32a moment of silence for the person
17. 0:33that's still struggling with like uh
18. 0:35thoughts addiction anything like that so
19. 0:37on the count of three i'm gonna do a
20. 0:38moment of silence one
21. 0:41two
22. 0:42three
23. 0:48okay
24. 0:49and with that being done uh i just want
25. 0:52to let people know that i put out quite
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30. 1:01should listen to them that would be
31. 1:02awesome i'd really appreciate the
32. 1:03support give me some feedback if you
33. 1:05have it
34. 1:06and uh also if you're not then you
35. 1:08should be listening to me because i make
36. 1:11pretty cool music
37. 1:12and i make all my own beats and i write
38. 1:14my own lyrics and all of that so
39. 1:16yeah um anyways with that being said i'm
40. 1:18gonna introduce um my guest for the day
41. 1:20uh i believe you're rachel right
42. 1:23yes
43. 1:24rachel
44. 1:25so um go ahead and introduce yourself
45. 1:27and like what school you went to and
46. 1:29what year you went you went there
47. 1:32all righty so my name is rachel i went
48. 1:35to hyde woodstock it's called the hyde
49. 1:37school they had a woodstock campus which
50. 1:39is unfortunately well most fortunately
51. 1:42now shut down
52. 1:43um they still have a bath main campus
53. 1:46but where i went was called the hyde
54. 1:48school
55. 1:48okay
56. 1:49and um what year was that about
57. 1:53i went from summer 05 to 08.
58. 1:58okay and was uh was the hyde school do
59. 2:00you know if it was under the umbrella of
60. 2:02the worldwide association of specialty
61. 2:04programs boss or was it a different
62. 2:06breakout program or do you know
63. 2:09um from what i've heard um there's been
64. 2:12we have a hide survivors page um that
65. 2:15exists and they do some deep dive into
66. 2:17like the history of it so i've heard
67. 2:19that there's been some ties to synonym
68. 2:22um i don't know about the wasp school so
69. 2:25okay okay well synonym is kind of like
70. 2:27the art the overarching uh philosophy of
71. 2:30a lot of these schools so
72. 2:32yeah
73. 2:34so when you got there were you
74. 2:35transported or did your parents bring
75. 2:37you up there like what happened there um
76. 2:39i
77. 2:40so my parents brought me up there um
78. 2:42when i got sent there initially it was
79. 2:45based off of like kind of like a court
80. 2:47order kind of thing
81. 2:48um i had gotten into some trouble and
82. 2:50then it was basically brought to me that
83. 2:53it was like you either go to like
84. 2:55military school wilderness or this place
85. 2:59so out of every place that i saw
86. 3:02um obviously i was like i'm not going to
87. 3:04any of these i don't want to be here you
88. 3:06know that whole spiel but it was kind of
89. 3:08like you're going to go somewhere
90. 3:10um so hyde was the last place that i
91. 3:12actually interviewed that i believe
92. 3:13accepted me
93. 3:15okay did they show did you did you see
94. 3:18like any um
95. 3:19like brochures or anything beforehand
96. 3:21that like was showing it like you know
97. 3:24not how it was like trying to present it
98. 3:26like in a good way like did they cast
99. 3:28out any brochures or anything like that
100. 3:31um honestly from what i remember no i
101. 3:34didn't see like any you know brochures
102. 3:36or like any like
103. 3:38commercial things for it i just
104. 3:41ended up there kind of
105. 3:43okay
106. 3:44the only reason i ask is because a lot
107. 3:45of these schools do tactics where
108. 3:47they'll like have picture like brochures
109. 3:49with a picture so if kids riding horses
110. 3:51when in fact you'll never probably even
111. 3:53see a horse when you're there yeah
112. 3:55you know
113. 3:56no i mean there were definitely i went
114. 3:58to a summer program so there were
115. 3:59definitely like times that like
116. 4:01advertised my parents i'm sure they saw
117. 4:03that but for me i never was given any
118. 4:07like info about it
119. 4:08okay okay um and so your parents brought
120. 4:11you out there so you kind of knew you
121. 4:12were going there already so when you got
122. 4:15there like how long did it take for you
123. 4:16to realize um this is crazy
124. 4:20um
125. 4:22well so i never expected that i'd
126. 4:24actually get like actually like sent
127. 4:26somewhere
128. 4:27um i always thought that it was kind of
129. 4:28just my parents talking and you know i
130. 4:30got into trouble and you know we you
131. 4:32know whatever
132. 4:34um but when i realized that you know it
133. 4:36was kind of serious um when i first got
134. 4:38up there it was
135. 4:40probably within the first five minutes
136. 4:42of me being there that i was like this
137. 4:43is not normal this is not where i want
138. 4:46to be kind of thing
139. 4:48what about what what were you seeing
140. 4:50that made you feel that way do you
141. 4:52remember what you were seeing like
142. 4:53specifically that
143. 4:55um when i first got there so hyde is
144. 4:58really big on group accountabilities and
145. 5:00like what they call brothers keeper
146. 5:02which
147. 5:02and you know layman's terms is like
148. 5:04snitching and like that kind of
149. 5:07world so that was kind of my first
150. 5:09indication that it's not exactly a
151. 5:12normal social existence kind of setting
152. 5:15um
153. 5:16there were times where kids like would
154. 5:19steal for instance and we'd the whole
155. 5:21entire dorm would get locked into a
156. 5:23heated room they'd turn the heat up in
157. 5:25the middle of summer i went for a summer
158. 5:27program so they'd lock us into a room
159. 5:29and turn the heat all the way up and
160. 5:30like interrogate us kind of thing until
161. 5:32someone came forward and i was like
162. 5:34this is not how the rest of the world
163. 5:37goes like this is not normal so
164. 5:40very quickly within my first few days
165. 5:43there it was kind of indicative that
166. 5:45this is not
167. 5:47the kind of setting i want to be in
168. 5:49for sure
169. 5:50um do you remember them going over
170. 5:56if you were anything like that was did
171. 5:58they buddy you up with anybody when you
172. 5:59first got there to like show you the
173. 6:01ropes per se like was there any of that
174. 6:04um not that i can recall i remember when
175. 6:08i first got there i was kind of on a
176. 6:10watch because i was kind of defiant or
177. 6:12like not following the rules per se
178. 6:15um so they definitely had like older
179. 6:18kids watching me kind of thing but it
180. 6:20was never like this is your like mentor
181. 6:23like it it was never set up like that
182. 6:26okay okay and so they never really went
183. 6:28over rules with you then either like
184. 6:30nothing like that
185. 6:32um they did go over rules like for
186. 6:34instance before you go they would send
187. 6:36home like a like a checklist of like
188. 6:39what you can come with what you can do
189. 6:40what you can't do like the basic like
190. 6:42overrun of it
191. 6:44but when you got there it definitely
192. 6:46became much more apparent but it was
193. 6:48never like officially gone over no okay
194. 6:51okay yeah that's just what i was curious
195. 6:52about um
196. 6:55a lot of these schools will give you a
197. 6:56manual but they won't go over it with
198. 6:58you they'll be like they expect you to
199. 6:59read it and they you know nobody reads
200. 7:01it you know like or like yeah small
201. 7:03percentage even reads it and so you're
202. 7:05expected to know all these rules right
203. 7:08right when you get here
204. 7:10uh so that's why i asked that um when so
205. 7:13how did uh i'm curious about how hide
206. 7:14operated like where they're like
207. 7:17where they're because the place i went
208. 7:18for example was spring creek lodge
209. 7:20academy and at spring creek lodge um
210. 7:23when you first get there there's like
211. 7:25lower level families so they'll like put
212. 7:27you in a family which is like a group of
213. 7:28like 30 people or 30 guys or 30 women
214. 7:31and
215. 7:32they call that family so for example i
216. 7:34was in honor family when i first got
217. 7:36there like how did they divide up the
218. 7:38the the students there and like was
219. 7:40there families was there different
220. 7:41cabins like i'm just trying to picture
221. 7:43like the layout of the whole thing
222. 7:46um so there weren't necessarily levels
223. 7:49per se like most places that i've heard
224. 7:51about have like different like ranking
225. 7:53or hierarchy systems it wasn't
226. 7:55necessarily like that
227. 7:57um it was more kind of like once you're
228. 7:59there um
229. 8:02how do i describe it it was more like
230. 8:04once you're there they kind of gauge
231. 8:06where your mind is and then from there
232. 8:08they kind of classify you so like they
233. 8:10classified you into like on track and
234. 8:12off track kids so the on track kids were
235. 8:16more of the kids that were like
236. 8:17following the program and like upholding
237. 8:20the rules and the principles and the
238. 8:22words and you know their whole
239. 8:24etiquette and rules of conduct
240. 8:26and then the off track kids were the
241. 8:28kids like me that you know kind of just
242. 8:30did not follow they were not part part
243. 8:33of the program they were not with it
244. 8:34like
245. 8:36so there was that kind of rank system
246. 8:38but it wasn't like there were levels per
247. 8:40se
248. 8:41okay
249. 8:42and and how did they uh did did they
250. 8:44like separate the the students at all
251. 8:46like like the the working and
252. 8:48non-working that you just described was
253. 8:50that like a separation like were they
254. 8:51separated
255. 8:53there definitely was so when you're at
256. 8:55hyde basically if you're an on-track kid
257. 8:58you're probably not going to be put out
258. 8:59to work as they say it which is like
259. 9:01work crew for most places
260. 9:04um you know you shovel snow you break
261. 9:06the leaves you do the grounds work you
262. 9:08do the cleaning you do this so if you're
263. 9:10off track and you're put out to work
264. 9:12that's the punishment they called it two
265. 9:15four when you're on to four you're
266. 9:16basically like separated from the
267. 9:18community you don't
268. 9:20go to class yeah um
269. 9:23you're doing workouts pretty much based
270. 9:24on your behavior which is like all the
271. 9:26time because you're clearly not of the
272. 9:28up most standing citizen in the
273. 9:30community kind of thing
274. 9:32um so they definitely did have that
275. 9:34okay and um
276. 9:37when you select like
277. 9:39how many people like i'm just trying to
278. 9:41like um how many people were there do
279. 9:43you remember roughly how many people
280. 9:44were there when you when you went there
281. 9:47like just didn't ask um so i i started a
282. 9:51summer program which was before the
283. 9:53school year so roughly my first summer
284. 9:56program i want to say there were at
285. 9:57least 100 so or 200
286. 10:00kids maybe
287. 10:02okay it's just a rough estimate
288. 10:05and did they have separation of sex
289. 10:08like did they did they separate like no
290. 10:10it was poet okay okay i mean we we slept
291. 10:14in different dorms like there was a
292. 10:15guy's dorm in a girls dorm but it was
293. 10:18like it was obviously not a you know a
294. 10:20strictly one sex program
295. 10:22okay yeah that that that's unique
296. 10:24because the like that a lot of the
297. 10:26schools will
298. 10:27like if you even look at a girl like
299. 10:29your consequence like you can't even
300. 10:31look at them like you have to look down
301. 10:32a lot yeah i mean don't get me wrong
302. 10:35within their you know their code of
303. 10:37conduct there was what they called a sex
304. 10:39ethic
305. 10:40which you cannot break or else you get
306. 10:42put out to work kind of thing but it was
307. 10:43a co-ed
308. 10:44setting which was weird to me
309. 10:47yeah that that is different that is
310. 10:49different uh did they have anything like
311. 10:51a study hall or like
312. 10:53were they like make you write sentences
313. 10:55if you were doing hella bad or
314. 10:57intervention like was a solitary
315. 10:59confinement did they have solitary
316. 11:00confinement there or anything like that
317. 11:02um so we didn't
318. 11:05i mean everybody's experience is
319. 11:07different my personal experience i've
320. 11:09had it like incidents where i would
321. 11:11consider it solitary because i was put
322. 11:14in like a locked room kind of thing that
323. 11:16was separate from everyone else but we
324. 11:18didn't have like
325. 11:19i mean i don't know how other programs
326. 11:21are if they have like designated like
327. 11:23cells or like what it is but we didn't
328. 11:26have like set spaces for that it was
329. 11:29kind of just like a
330. 11:31like a dorm setting and then the
331. 11:33basement was dean's area so like they
332. 11:35had open rooms that they had access to
333. 11:37and they could put you in one if they're
334. 11:38interrogating you kind of thing
335. 11:40um
336. 11:41so
337. 11:42it was different in that sense but they
338. 11:45definitely put that
339. 11:47idea on to you that you're like being in
340. 11:50you know seclusion or like some [ __ ]
341. 11:53like that like they definitely
342. 11:55would
343. 11:56put that mindset on to you in the
344. 11:59setting that you were in
345. 12:00okay okay but they didn't have
346. 12:02designated areas for that yeah
347. 12:05interesting i wonder if part of that was
348. 12:08trying to keep it like under wraps like
349. 12:10that whole thing
350. 12:11so people didn't really oh for sure
351. 12:13because i know i know that there were
352. 12:15kids that were like for instance my
353. 12:17parents weren't like explicitly very
354. 12:19involved
355. 12:20but there were other kids that i'm sure
356. 12:22had
357. 12:26so like they were very discreet about
358. 12:28how they went about punishing kids
359. 12:31for sure did they was there any like
360. 12:33physical abuse
361. 12:35or
362. 12:36um i've seen teachers hit kids which
363. 12:39obviously is not allowed in a school
364. 12:41setting corporal punishment is not a
365. 12:43thing anymore um i've seen teachers hate
366. 12:46kids um our workouts were definitely
367. 12:50beyond
368. 12:52the extent of a normal workout like kids
369. 12:55would work out to the point
370. 12:56they would puke and then be told keep
371. 12:58going kind of thing like i've had active
372. 13:01asthma attacks where you know i've had
373. 13:03um what they would call proctors which
374. 13:05are like student like you said big
375. 13:07brother kind of you know positions
376. 13:09where like for instance they would make
377. 13:12us do push-ups or burpees or something
378. 13:14and i couldn't get back up out of you
379. 13:16know after exertion i couldn't get back
380. 13:18up and i had someone push me down with
381. 13:20their foot kind of thing and hold me
382. 13:21down until i could get myself back so
383. 13:24they definitely had like extreme
384. 13:26measures
385. 13:28um
386. 13:30but you know
387. 13:31as you know the survivor community
388. 13:32exists many people will be like oh it
389. 13:34wasn't that bad
390. 13:35you know many people have had it worse
391. 13:36or people that have been in the military
392. 13:38they'll be like oh that's just part of
393. 13:39basic training and it's like yeah but
394. 13:40you signed up for that i didn't exactly
395. 13:43exactly and anybody that in my opinion
396. 13:46that tries to uh minimize your
397. 13:49experience just because you may not you
398. 13:52may not have had it as bad but you don't
399. 13:54need to point that out you don't need to
400. 13:55say that okay and everybody in my
401. 13:58opinion that went through a school like
402. 14:00that
403. 14:01there everybody went through it
404. 14:02everybody went through hell okay just
405. 14:05some people had it worse than others
406. 14:06like we all went exactly oh so we need
407. 14:09to stop acting like some of us went
408. 14:11through hell and some of us didn't go
409. 14:13through hell we all went through hell
410. 14:14like
411. 14:15it's just
412. 14:17the same thing like
413. 14:18because we were like even if you were
414. 14:21they're court ordered and you some
415. 14:23someone knew that you were going to be
416. 14:24there you're still going there against
417. 14:26your will
418. 14:27as a [ __ ] like preacher
419. 14:29you still don't have a choice in the
420. 14:31matter it's not like you chose to do
421. 14:33that like for community service or some
422. 14:35[ __ ] like definitely yeah exactly
423. 14:39but um
424. 14:40so yes uh essentially screw people there
425. 14:43if they're saying that to you screw them
426. 14:44you know you don't need people like that
427. 14:46in your life
428. 14:47um
429. 14:48but um
430. 14:50i'm curious um
431. 14:52how was the food there was it horrible
432. 14:56uh yeah it was trash i'm not gonna lie
433. 14:58like i've i'm a big foodie so the food
434. 15:02was absolutely terrible i mean when the
435. 15:04parents would be up there for like
436. 15:05family weekend they called it foc
437. 15:07weekends
438. 15:08um
439. 15:09it was much better than like when you're
440. 15:12there day to day
441. 15:13but um that was probably the best it got
442. 15:18the parents were out there otherwise
443. 15:21kind of thing
444. 15:22if you're on two four you can only eat
445. 15:24certain things like you can only eat
446. 15:26peanut butter and jelly you can only eat
447. 15:27um
448. 15:29cold cereal like you couldn't get the
449. 15:30hot food so it was definitely not the
450. 15:33best
451. 15:34for sure when you say 2-4 for the
452. 15:36viewers what does 2-4 mean if you're not
453. 15:38on 2-4
454. 15:40so when you're not on 2-4 you're
455. 15:42basically
456. 15:43part of the community you go to class
457. 15:45you get
458. 15:46you do your schoolwork you're socialized
459. 15:49when you're on 2-4 you wake up at 5 30
460. 15:52you do workouts like at the ass crack in
461. 15:54the morning for like four like not four
462. 15:56hours like maybe two and a half three
463. 15:58hours before it's breakfast you go to
464. 16:00breakfast your whole day is structured
465. 16:02based around doing like grounds work
466. 16:04like i've
467. 16:05scrubbed tiles in the main building with
468. 16:07a toothbrush and bleach just because
469. 16:09they needed to give me something to do
470. 16:11kind of thing you pick dandelions in the
471. 16:13football field you know you shovel snow
472. 16:16when it's winter you rake the leaves
473. 16:18when it's fall
474. 16:19so when you're on 2-4 you're not part of
475. 16:21the community you don't get to go to
476. 16:22class you don't get to socialize with
477. 16:25people
478. 16:26um
479. 16:27you're basically alienated pretty much
480. 16:30okay
481. 16:32uh which is [ __ ] up it's [ __ ] up how
482. 16:34they do that um
483. 16:37let's see so was
484. 16:39was schooling a big big emphasis on
485. 16:41schooling there
486. 16:42in melbourne most of the time just a big
487. 16:44emphasis on schooling or was it more
488. 16:46emphasis on work
489. 16:48it was supposed to be so hyde
490. 16:51prides itself on calling itself a
491. 16:53college prep school
492. 16:55but from you know going there i went to
493. 16:57college after there i was not prepared
494. 16:59for college i was out to work half the
495. 17:01time that i was at hyde so i was wasn't
496. 17:04part of class i wasn't up to par with
497. 17:06school work so
498. 17:08in my opinion no i don't think hyde was
499. 17:10actually like particularly
500. 17:12big on academics okay and did did you
501. 17:16study there though you went to school
502. 17:17though right
503. 17:19i did go to school we did have study
504. 17:21hall um
505. 17:23but again you know if you're not going
506. 17:25to class how are you supposed to do your
507. 17:27schoolwork kind of thing so i mean it
508. 17:29really depended on are you going gonna
509. 17:31play the game and you know
510. 17:33get by and skate by according to hyde
511. 17:36standards or are you gonna you know
512. 17:39stick by how you are and what your you
513. 17:41know your values are and are you gonna
514. 17:43be who you are kind of thing and it's
515. 17:45just like
516. 17:46for me personally
517. 17:48i was barely part of class um i would
518. 17:51get in trouble for you know kids
519. 17:53snitching on me for like random or
520. 17:55brothers keepering me i should say
521. 17:58um for just nonsense like they would
522. 18:01just say things to say things and put it
523. 18:03on paper kind of thing and then suddenly
524. 18:05it gets brought to me i get punished for
525. 18:07it and now i can't go to class yeah so
526. 18:12it was never in my opinion particularly
527. 18:14big on academics okay um and
528. 18:18what anything if you did go to school
529. 18:20though was it self-taught or was there a
530. 18:22teacher
531. 18:24there were teachers but
532. 18:26to put it simply they weren't qualified
533. 18:29like there's many times that i sat in
534. 18:31class and we had students that would
535. 18:34basically school the teachers on the
536. 18:36subjects that they were teaching so
537. 18:38i mean many faculty at hyde are former
538. 18:42you know students former parents like
539. 18:44nobody's actually in my experience from
540. 18:47you know what i've
541. 18:49dealt with in my personal time there
542. 18:51nobody's actually qualified
543. 18:53to teach what they teach yeah
544. 18:56that's [ __ ] up that's [ __ ] up
545. 18:59um
546. 19:00did you so you had a lot of exercise
547. 19:04uh
548. 19:06so that okay let me think for a second
549. 19:08let me think for a second uh how long
550. 19:10were you there total
551. 19:13from summer 05 to 08 so about three
552. 19:16years in two summers
553. 19:18three years damn that's that's a long
554. 19:20time yeah
555. 19:21yeah
556. 19:22it was quite a while
557. 19:24i was at spring creek lodge for 22
558. 19:26months
559. 19:27and i rebelled for the first year i was
560. 19:29there and then i almost got sent to
561. 19:31jamaica
562. 19:32where they don't have child protection
563. 19:34laws
564. 19:35and they told me
565. 19:36we'll just send you there and then we're
566. 19:38just tell your parents after you're
567. 19:39there
568. 19:40don't even ask
569. 19:42so yeah i was there 22 months um
570. 19:45let's see did they have any you said
571. 19:48something about wilderness did you go on
572. 19:49a wilderness thing when you were there
573. 19:51at all or was that just a completely
574. 19:53separate thing for you
575. 19:55um so hyde does have its own wilderness
576. 19:58program kind of thing in eustis maine
577. 20:02um so i don't know if they i believe
578. 20:04they own the property out there but they
579. 20:06have their own wilderness program
580. 20:09so like for instance i got sent there i
581. 20:11believe it was like two or three times
582. 20:13maybe four times
583. 20:14and
584. 20:16it's pretty much like from what i've
585. 20:18heard other people say about their
586. 20:19wilderness programs it's pretty much the
587. 20:21same experience it's just hyde's own
588. 20:23wilderness program
589. 20:25but you didn't go to it when you were
590. 20:27there you didn't no i did i got sent
591. 20:29maybe three or four times
592. 20:31and how was that like what did they have
593. 20:33you do did they like how did that thing
594. 20:35go i'm just curious um
595. 20:38it was not fun i i could definitely
596. 20:40remember that much um the first time i
597. 20:43got sent there um i got sent there just
598. 20:45for leadership building skills
599. 20:48and um it was in the middle of winter so
600. 20:52um
601. 20:53we got two tarps in general you know
602. 20:56like wilderness gear
603. 20:58and then we were pretty much left on our
604. 20:59own like we were told you know you got
605. 21:01to figure out how to build your shelter
606. 21:03um they would do these things where they
607. 21:05put you on what they called solos which
608. 21:08is where they'd separate you from like
609. 21:09the rest of the group that were there
610. 21:11and you have to like self-reflect for
611. 21:13like hours on end by yourself in the
612. 21:15middle of the wilderness
613. 21:17um
614. 21:18the first night that i was there what
615. 21:20they did was at the end of the night we
616. 21:22all told like ghost stories i was there
617. 21:24for um i believe the first night i went
618. 21:26was halloween night
619. 21:28and so they thought it would be cool to
620. 21:30you know around the campfire tell
621. 21:31halloween stories and stuff and then
622. 21:33separate us blindfolded in the middle of
623. 21:36the woods walk you like a mile and a
624. 21:38half i think it was like each of us were
625. 21:40blindfolded and walked a mile and a half
626. 21:42away from the main campsite in different
627. 21:44directions so we didn't know where
628. 21:46anyone else was or anything like that
629. 21:48and then we were just told to figure it
630. 21:50out build your shelter and sleep
631. 21:53which is essentially
632. 21:55what i went on wilderness too and when
633. 21:57uh did they they load you up with food
634. 21:59too right they give you rations at the
635. 22:01beginning right and you yeah they
636. 22:03we got two handfuls of what your two
637. 22:06hands could hold so we got two handfuls
638. 22:08of trail mix and
639. 22:10i think in the initially in the
640. 22:12beginning we got like one hot drink and
641. 22:14one like water bottle like an algae of
642. 22:17water and like that was it i think
643. 22:20yeah i remember my wilderness
644. 22:23like did they have you like honey did
645. 22:25they have each person uh have to uh
646. 22:28lead you guys was there a leader like
647. 22:30yeah there was one mate yeah they would
648. 22:33like cycle it each day like all right
649. 22:35you're in charge today you're gonna lead
650. 22:37us today kind of thing and they could
651. 22:38lead you in a circle and it wouldn't
652. 22:40matter they'd be like no
653. 22:42[ __ ] you just have to follow yeah
654. 22:44yeah it's crazy but i remember [ __ ]
655. 22:46just splitting up and being solo was
656. 22:48hella hard for me because i was scared
657. 22:49honestly i was hella scared like it was
658. 22:52terrifying out there
659. 22:54like for real like people don't
660. 22:55understand like the forest then the
661. 22:57woods is this [ __ ] dangerous place
662. 23:00there's animals there everybody watches
663. 23:02those horror movies but i don't think
664. 23:04people have ever really thought like
665. 23:06what would i do if i was in the middle
666. 23:08of the wilderness by my like nobody
667. 23:10really puts themselves in that position
668. 23:12yeah and it gets when it gets dark in
669. 23:14the wilderness like it's [ __ ] pitch
670. 23:15black you cannot say it's terrifying
671. 23:18i had a panic attack my first night
672. 23:20there and i that was the only way to go
673. 23:22to sleep like i think i'm pretty sure i
674. 23:24blacked out from having a panic attack
675. 23:26and that's the only way i got to sleep
676. 23:28and made it through the night
677. 23:29that's crazy did you uh
678. 23:32let me ask you did you see anything
679. 23:34crazy or hear anything like like
680. 23:36paranoid
681. 23:38otherwise or anything when you're out
682. 23:39there um
683. 23:41so there were there was one time that
684. 23:43when we were like regrouping after the
685. 23:45night when they separated us that
686. 23:48around the main campsite like there were
687. 23:50like
688. 23:51i don't know what kind of animal but
689. 23:53there were animal tracks and that was
690. 23:55the first time for me that i was like
691. 23:57we're really in the like i'm from new
692. 23:59york city so i was like i'm really in
693. 24:00the middle of the [ __ ] woods right
694. 24:02now like there's animal tracks around
695. 24:04here like there's animals like wild
696. 24:07animals that like
697. 24:09i've never come across in my life like
698. 24:11it it threw me for a loop like it
699. 24:14actually scared the [ __ ] out of me i was
700. 24:15like i'm out here by myself like nobody
701. 24:17gives a [ __ ] about me out here
702. 24:20yeah and animals like even [ __ ] like
703. 24:22dude deer can [ __ ] you up too like
704. 24:25[ __ ] like oh yeah [ __ ] you up like
705. 24:27people don't understand like there is a
706. 24:29really theirs will just kill you and
707. 24:31maul you
708. 24:32like they're like people who really
709. 24:34don't understand bears they think they
710. 24:35can just carry any kind of gun like a
711. 24:37nine millimeter it's like you can shoot
712. 24:39that bear and it'll be fine yeah no piss
713. 24:41it off it's gonna keep on coming at you
714. 24:43like exactly yes
715. 24:47yeah
716. 24:48and but yeah um but yeah that's crazy
717. 24:51it's crazy that we had to go through
718. 24:52that and i'm so surprised that like we
719. 24:54didn't get eaten by bear we were in
720. 24:55[ __ ] montana you were in like what
721. 24:57iowa or like the middle of maine the
722. 24:59middle of maine yeah there's animals out
723. 25:02there too like i'm sure they can kill
724. 25:04you like
725. 25:06shit's crazy um
726. 25:08let's see so they didn't have they
727. 25:10didn't have points and levels did they
728. 25:11have seminars
729. 25:13no yes what they called them what do
730. 25:15they call them they call them disco
731. 25:17groups discovery groups okay
732. 25:20what do you what do they do
733. 25:22like so in discovery groups it was
734. 25:25basically like they would split you up
735. 25:26into like little what would simulate
736. 25:29family kind of things
737. 25:31so you were broken off into little
738. 25:32groups like amongst the students and the
739. 25:34faculty and you'd have like maine disco
740. 25:38group leaders which were just regular
741. 25:40faculty and then you'd have a bunch of
742. 25:42random kids put into one group that
743. 25:44would basically like the seminars would
744. 25:46be like i remember one seminar someone
745. 25:49[ __ ]
746. 25:51i don't know if this is too much to say
747. 25:52but like they admitted that they were
748. 25:54abusing their younger sibling at home
749. 25:56and stuff like that and it was just like
750. 25:58[ __ ] would come out that like i wasn't
751. 26:01ready to hear i'm pretty sure nobody
752. 26:03else was ready to hear like [ __ ] that
753. 26:05should have been dealt with
754. 26:06appropriately that was never dealt with
755. 26:08like
756. 26:09so we definitely did have like weird
757. 26:11seminars like that
758. 26:13yeah
759. 26:14okay okay so more of like a small group
760. 26:17like
761. 26:18an interrogating like feedback circle
762. 26:20type thing
763. 26:22where people would share exactly okay
764. 26:25okay exactly um and for the people that
765. 26:27um
766. 26:28may not know anything about what we're
767. 26:30talking about essentially these small
768. 26:32groups would just be
769. 26:33a group of like
770. 26:3510 to 15 maybe 20 people sitting in a
771. 26:37group with chairs and one person would
772. 26:40get up
773. 26:41they a person would get up once one at a
774. 26:43time essentially and share about their
775. 26:45trauma and what they've been through and
776. 26:46then people would stand up and give them
777. 26:48feedback if they're being real enough or
778. 26:51if they're if they think they're being
779. 26:52fake and just straight like a lot of
780. 26:54people would get called out for just oh
781. 26:56i don't believe you're being real i
782. 26:57think you're making that up and
783. 26:59there's a lot of
784. 27:00[ __ ] up [ __ ]
785. 27:02that happens in those kind of things
786. 27:04um let's see
787. 27:08did anybody run when you were there were
788. 27:10there any runners did anybody try to run
789. 27:13um yeah so we had like i one time got
790. 27:17like a danceless area of paper and on it
791. 27:21like the charges are like the
792. 27:23discrepancies that you could be charged
793. 27:24with for like awol and stuff like that
794. 27:27so there were definitely kids that went
795. 27:28able that i knew of and i i'm not gonna
796. 27:31lie i was always very jealous that they
797. 27:33had the balls to go awol because back
798. 27:35then i was like i know i'm just going to
799. 27:37get brought back it's going to be 10
800. 27:38times worse for me so that's the one
801. 27:40rule i never broke was a ball i never
802. 27:42went awol
803. 27:44did anybody get away
804. 27:47um i believe a few kids did um but from
805. 27:51what i remember a lot of kids that i've
806. 27:53been in touch with that i knew that ran
807. 27:55away eventually like got caught and sent
808. 27:58other places
809. 27:59so they go after them and [ __ ]
810. 28:01they trying to yeah they definitely they
811. 28:03would try and find you yeah because the
812. 28:05thing with where we were sent in
813. 28:06woodstock it was the middle of [ __ ]
814. 28:08nowhere connecticut so like everyone in
815. 28:11the local town knew that if there's a
816. 28:13runaway kid they're probably from hyde
817. 28:15so like they're gonna report like i
818. 28:17swear to god the police were like
819. 28:21in like cahoots with hyde because there
820. 28:23were times that like kids would try and
821. 28:25call them and report things and like it
822. 28:27just wasn't taken seriously or it was
823. 28:29just shoved to the side so
824. 28:32you know if you run away and you get
825. 28:33reported it's just going to be 10 times
826. 28:35worse if you get caught
827. 28:37yeah
828. 28:38yeah no [ __ ] um
829. 28:41did they shave the boy's head her hair
830. 28:44off
831. 28:45did they do any of that um no
832. 28:48not during my time but i've heard from
833. 28:50the the hide history that that was once
834. 28:52a practice okay okay
835. 28:55um was there did you hear about any
836. 28:57staff like sexually abusing any other
837. 28:59kids or anything like that like
838. 29:01definitely appropriate like
839. 29:03what did you do 100
840. 29:05um there was a guy named scary larry um
841. 29:09who had it
842. 29:11there was like a whole settlement about
843. 29:13it um i personally knew some teachers
844. 29:16that
845. 29:17at the end of my stay i knew that they
846. 29:19had relations with students um
847. 29:23obviously the students told me you know
848. 29:25after the fact but during the time they
849. 29:27were having relationships with students
850. 29:29um
851. 29:30so that was definitely
852. 29:32a part of it and especially you know
853. 29:34given the fact that at hyde a lot of the
854. 29:36kids once they graduate some of them
855. 29:38will go back to work at hyde so i don't
856. 29:41think the
857. 29:43you know it gets blurred a lot for those
858. 29:45people i feel like so they don't realize
859. 29:48that you're now in the position to take
860. 29:49care of these kids you can't cross that
861. 29:52line
862. 29:52yeah yeah
863. 29:54and what does graduating at high school
864. 29:57entail
865. 29:58what do you have to do hyde has it hyde
866. 30:01has its own graduate program
867. 30:04otherwise like for instance i was
868. 30:06considered a 12th grader so i wasn't
869. 30:08considered a senior at hyde even though
870. 30:11a 12th grader is a senior at any normal
871. 30:13school you i got demoted to a 12th
872. 30:15grader from being a senior which means i
873. 30:18was no longer part of hyde's graduate
874. 30:20program or whatever height you can get
875. 30:22like a certificate a diploma and then
876. 30:25something i forget what the other one is
877. 30:27but you basically like there's a ranking
878. 30:29system when you graduate that you go
879. 30:31back to you know at graduation you give
880. 30:33a speech praising hyde and this that in
881. 30:36the third and you talk about what it
882. 30:38gave you in life and how much it helped
883. 30:40you and you know whatever
884. 30:42i wasn't part of that i was the dog [ __ ]
885. 30:44of the school you know i basically was
886. 30:47just you know
887. 30:48i wasn't with the program so i wasn't
888. 30:50[ __ ]
889. 30:51um
890. 30:51[Music]
891. 30:53but yeah they had like their own ranking
892. 30:55system when you graduate that you know
893. 30:57you can either get this this or that and
894. 30:59it's based on you know your peer reviews
895. 31:01from what i know and stuff like that
896. 31:04okay and so you didn't graduate from
897. 31:06there you got cold then your parents
898. 31:08came no i didn't
899. 31:10so i did five years of high school which
900. 31:12in new york state my credits were more
901. 31:14than enough so hyde could not deny me my
902. 31:17high school diploma but i didn't
903. 31:18graduate
904. 31:20from hyde
905. 31:22but when you left did your parents get
906. 31:24you or did you like graduate from there
907. 31:26technically um no my parents had to come
908. 31:28they banned me from the school uh what
909. 31:30was it two weeks before the graduation
910. 31:32which would have been my graduation
911. 31:34what did they bang you for it
912. 31:37um pretty much uh the headmistress laura
913. 31:40gold called me a cancer of the school
914. 31:41and was just like i can't have you here
915. 31:43you have too much of an influence over
916. 31:45the students you know you're just
917. 31:47pretty much after three years and two
918. 31:49summers she was like we've had enough of
919. 31:50you get out of here
920. 31:52wow
921. 31:53that's [ __ ] up
922. 31:54um yeah
923. 31:56so uh was there any did you see or hear
924. 31:59about any drug use going on there
925. 32:02oh absolutely hyde at one point was like
926. 32:04the local drug ring
927. 32:07there was i remember at one point i
928. 32:10forget which year it was that i was
929. 32:12there but the boys storm was basically
930. 32:14like a shop for whatever the [ __ ] you
931. 32:16wanted to get you could get it off the
932. 32:18students or off the staff or both off
933. 32:20the students on staff both
934. 32:22oh wow
935. 32:23that's true this was like literally they
936. 32:25had like uh the boys dorm had like a
937. 32:27shop at one point
938. 32:29on the first floor and they had a window
939. 32:31which you could go up to and like they
940. 32:32would sell like you know like basically
941. 32:34in jail like commissary you could get
942. 32:36like a like a twinkies or this or that
943. 32:38you could go there and spend your money
944. 32:40at the window and that's where people
945. 32:42would get their drugs also
946. 32:44would they let you have money on your
947. 32:46person there
948. 32:48um so they did give allowance for the
949. 32:50kids that were able to get it um so you
950. 32:52could have money if you could hold on to
951. 32:54it like friends since i'm adopted so i
952. 32:56once saved all my allowance to pay for a
953. 32:58pi to find my family
954. 33:01and someone stole all my money
955. 33:03so they gave they did like give you
956. 33:06allowance but it was up to you if you
957. 33:07could keep it pretty much and you're
958. 33:09essentially earning this from the
959. 33:11working from the child labor you're
960. 33:13doing correct um
961. 33:16no i don't know what the allowance was
962. 33:18for honestly i think it was just
963. 33:19optional like if someone could supply it
964. 33:22you get allowance otherwise you just
965. 33:24don't get allowance
966. 33:27okay so you guys didn't even get paid
967. 33:29for the labor you were doing at all no
968. 33:32no okay
969. 33:33just wanted to clear that up for people
970. 33:36um let's
971. 33:39i had a question around the tip of my
972. 33:40tongue
973. 33:43okay so
974. 33:45you said you got robbed right for your
975. 33:46money so somebody just came up and took
976. 33:48your money or they just how did it
977. 33:50happen like did it happen in different
978. 33:51um
979. 33:52so we had dorm rooms like when we would
980. 33:55go to sleep at night you'd go to like
981. 33:56the girls dorm or the guy's dorm so
982. 33:58someone stole it out of my room
983. 34:02from my wing that i was on
984. 34:04sneaky sneaky sneaky
985. 34:06[ __ ] up
986. 34:08um let's see
987. 34:10okay after you got out
988. 34:12let's talk about like reintegration into
989. 34:14society or hold on okay before we talk
990. 34:17about that
991. 34:18um
992. 34:19what was the craziest thing you saw
993. 34:21there and what was the best thing you
994. 34:22saw there if there is a good thing if
995. 34:24there's not a good thing then just don't
996. 34:26even go there
997. 34:27but
998. 34:28let's see the craziest thing i saw there
999. 34:31or heard about um
1000. 34:36do i want to go there um
1001. 34:39one of the craziest things that
1002. 34:41i will talk about because i don't know
1003. 34:43if this person's the other thing if
1004. 34:45they've come publicly or not so i don't
1005. 34:46want to blow that up but one of the
1006. 34:48craziest things i saw hide was notorious
1007. 34:51for ways to get [ __ ] up that are not
1008. 34:53you know your typical way to get [ __ ]
1009. 34:55up
1010. 34:56um a kid overdosed on nutmeg
1011. 34:59oh wow
1012. 35:00which i didn't know you could do
1013. 35:02i've heard i've heard
1014. 35:04i've heard whispers that that this that
1015. 35:06nutmeg does some crazy [ __ ] yeah so you
1016. 35:09know kid overdosed on nutmeg i've heard
1017. 35:12um someone trying cooking wine to try
1018. 35:14and get drunk kids used to freeze or
1019. 35:18like do something to their listerine to
1020. 35:20extract the alcohol out of it like there
1021. 35:22was just a whole bunch of weird [ __ ]
1022. 35:24that's crazy that's crazy and was there
1023. 35:26anything good
1024. 35:29um
1025. 35:30in my opinion the only good thing was
1026. 35:37i got to eat i had a place to sleep at
1027. 35:39night
1028. 35:40i was guaranteed that much
1029. 35:42other than that i mean the faculty was
1030. 35:45corrupt the kids snitched on you i mean
1031. 35:48i didn't trust anyone when i was there
1032. 35:50really so
1033. 35:51in terms of the social aspect no there
1034. 35:54were no positives for me
1035. 35:55i like i said i was the dog [ __ ] at
1036. 35:57school when i left so i was pretty much
1037. 36:00nobody gave a [ __ ]
1038. 36:02for sure for sure well
1039. 36:05then i don't really need to ask this
1040. 36:06question but i think i'm going to did
1041. 36:08you did you make any like friendships or
1042. 36:10like relationships with anybody there
1043. 36:12like was there anything because i'm only
1044. 36:14asking because
1045. 36:16i had a really shitty time too like for
1046. 36:18a long time but then you know i did like
1047. 36:20some i still have some friendships that
1048. 36:22i made at the school to this day like
1049. 36:25i mean i look i thought i made some
1050. 36:28friendships but i look at like today's
1051. 36:30times and i i keep in touch with maybe
1052. 36:34at most three or four people
1053. 36:37otherwise
1054. 36:38everyone kind of is on the same page as
1055. 36:40when i was there they just don't have
1056. 36:42anything to do with me they just don't
1057. 36:43talk to me they won't touch the
1058. 36:45subjectified kind of thing it's kind of
1059. 36:47just one of those like
1060. 36:49hey we could have been cool but
1061. 36:51we'll never know
1062. 36:53yeah
1063. 36:54um
1064. 36:55i am curious was there ever a time you
1065. 36:57said that you were pretty much a dog
1066. 36:58chair this school um
1067. 36:59[Music]
1068. 37:01was there a time when you really were
1069. 37:03trying to like follow the rules and then
1070. 37:05you kept on just getting like
1071. 37:06consequenced or like people would just
1072. 37:08you know be hating like because like
1073. 37:10i've been there like when i was trying
1074. 37:12to do good and like i just couldn't
1075. 37:14catch a break like was there ever time
1076. 37:16where you were really trying to like do
1077. 37:17better and like then people just
1078. 37:20wouldn't give you a break like
1079. 37:23um
1080. 37:24there were definitely times that i would
1081. 37:26try and keep my head down
1082. 37:28but there was never a time that i was
1083. 37:30with the program though okay okay
1084. 37:34and okay now let's talk about
1085. 37:36reintegration into society uh when you
1086. 37:39got out
1087. 37:40how was reintegration into society like
1088. 37:42was it hard to talk to people like
1089. 37:45regular people like for me for example
1090. 37:48i'm always waiting for the other shoe to
1091. 37:49drop
1092. 37:50like i never i'm always looking behind
1093. 37:52my back like physically and emote like
1094. 37:54mentally
1095. 37:56and also it's just really hard and
1096. 37:58awkward for me to like talk to people
1097. 37:59when i got out like my friends would
1098. 38:01just be talking about like you know
1099. 38:03the new girl they met her like new thing
1100. 38:05they bought her or a new toy they bought
1101. 38:07or whatever and i'd just be sitting
1102. 38:08there like how the [ __ ] do i even
1103. 38:10interject into this conversation like
1104. 38:12i've literally spent the last 22 months
1105. 38:14in a [ __ ] school that
1106. 38:16you guys wouldn't even understand if i
1107. 38:18[ __ ] told you unless you were there
1108. 38:21like literally like how do i even talk
1109. 38:22to people like
1110. 38:24i definitely had moments like that like
1111. 38:26i remember so when i got out of hide i
1112. 38:29was at
1113. 38:30um home for a little bit i was
1114. 38:32transitionally homeless and then i went
1115. 38:34right to college storming at college so
1116. 38:36i came
1117. 38:37home
1118. 38:38i wasn't really home and then i went
1119. 38:40right to dormancy college so i never
1120. 38:42really had that in between
1121. 38:45like break from
1122. 38:47being away from home to being home to
1123. 38:50going away again
1124. 38:51so when i got to college one of my
1125. 38:53biggest things that i that like
1126. 38:55predominantly sticks out in my head was
1127. 38:57i used to be a smoker so i used to smoke
1128. 38:58cigarettes and at college one of my
1129. 39:02biggest things was i was so paranoid to
1130. 39:04just smoke a cigarette anywhere i would
1131. 39:07go hide in the bushes i would go hide
1132. 39:09here like i was terrified
1133. 39:12even though i was legally allowed to
1134. 39:14smoke like it just it was ingrained in
1135. 39:16me that you're not allowed to smoke that
1136. 39:18someone's gonna snitch on you you gotta
1137. 39:20watch your back type [ __ ]
1138. 39:21um
1139. 39:23speaking to people was definitely
1140. 39:24different because i had just come out of
1141. 39:26that mindset of like being the dog [ __ ]
1142. 39:29of the school like nobody was talking to
1143. 39:31me like i didn't know
1144. 39:33how to socialize per se like i didn't
1145. 39:35know how to have conversations with
1146. 39:37people
1147. 39:38um
1148. 39:40that was another big thing um sleeping
1149. 39:42at night sleeping in a dorm
1150. 39:45going from high to like college dorming
1151. 39:48was very different from me
1152. 39:50um for the simple fact that like i said
1153. 39:53like i i felt like i always had to watch
1154. 39:55my back i didn't trust my roommate i
1155. 39:57found out my roommate was stealing from
1156. 39:58me type [ __ ] so like it got to a point
1157. 40:01that it was very like socially like i
1158. 40:04didn't know how to exist
1159. 40:06if that makes sense yeah yeah
1160. 40:09totally i can completely relate
1161. 40:11um
1162. 40:13if you could go back in time
1163. 40:15and not go to this school would you do
1164. 40:17it
1165. 40:19100 i would never have gone
1166. 40:22okay i would have taken like part of it
1167. 40:24like i said was court ordered when i got
1168. 40:26sent so i totally would have done my
1169. 40:28time in juvie for a year versus what i
1170. 40:30did at hyde if i had known it would have
1171. 40:32turned out that way
1172. 40:34okay and uh is it your opinion that
1173. 40:37knowing what you know now
1174. 40:39that for the schools that are still open
1175. 40:41is that your opinion that these these
1176. 40:43schools that are still open
1177. 40:45uh
1178. 40:46should or
1179. 40:47could or even should no way i always
1180. 40:50mess this up oh my god
1181. 40:53you're good you're good uh
1182. 40:56do you think that they should or even
1183. 40:58could be regulated
1184. 40:59at this point or do you believe that
1185. 41:01they should all just be shut down
1186. 41:04um i go back and forth with that
1187. 41:07question and i've watched some of your
1188. 41:09episodes and i've heard you ask that and
1189. 41:11i i ask myself that all the time i
1190. 41:13personally the way they exist now say
1191. 41:15that they should all be shut down
1192. 41:17um i personally work for a state um
1193. 41:20forensic hospital
1194. 41:22um so
1195. 41:24you talk about psychiatric issues that's
1196. 41:26you know that's who we predominantly
1197. 41:28have or people with and we have cameras
1198. 41:31you can't do anything without the
1199. 41:32cameras and audio like that's the kind
1200. 41:35of regulation that i would say if
1201. 41:36they're going to open up again it needs
1202. 41:39to be state it needs to be overseen by
1203. 41:41the state and federally
1204. 41:43for sure for sure
1205. 41:45i definitely as they exist now no they
1206. 41:47should not exist anymore okay
1207. 41:50um
1208. 41:51okay well is there anything else you
1209. 41:53want people to know about your
1210. 41:54experience at this school is there
1211. 41:56anything like for a parent maybe that's
1212. 41:58watching this that maybe was thinking
1213. 42:00about sending their kid there is any
1214. 42:01there anything you would want to say to
1215. 42:03them like anything at all
1216. 42:05um
1217. 42:07my biggest thing would probably be that
1218. 42:09if you're thinking of sending your kid
1219. 42:11not even necessarily to hide but it to
1220. 42:14any school that's like a boarding
1221. 42:16environment if you can't talk to your
1222. 42:18kid regularly that's a red flag
1223. 42:21if there's consequences to like for
1224. 42:23instance them telling you the truth
1225. 42:25about what's going on or their their
1226. 42:27phone calls are monitored that's a red
1227. 42:29flag
1228. 42:30things like that are definitely things
1229. 42:32to keep in mind and i would say don't
1230. 42:34send your kid there if those are
1231. 42:36parameters that are necessary
1232. 42:38um
1233. 42:40and just anyone
1234. 42:42that's gone to a trouble teen school i
1235. 42:45would say just remember that it's not
1236. 42:47your fault whatever happened to you
1237. 42:48whatever you experienced
1238. 42:50um
1239. 42:53you're worth it
1240. 42:55you're worth telling your story your
1241. 42:57voice matters
1242. 42:59and
1243. 43:00i wish everyone the best always
1244. 43:03for sure for sure
1245. 43:04and i was going to tell you if you if
1246. 43:06you think of anything and you want to do
1247. 43:08a part two or you just i'm thinking like
1248. 43:11about i'm probably gonna end up doing
1249. 43:13like part two with probably everybody
1250. 43:14i've interviewed so far if if for
1251. 43:17nothing else even if they don't have
1252. 43:18anything more to talk about just to
1253. 43:20check up on them and where they are in
1254. 43:22life right now and just check up on them
1255. 43:24and do like a checkup thing so if you're
1256. 43:26ever done i like that yeah if you're
1257. 43:28ever would you want it so are you open
1258. 43:30to doing a part two someday sometime
1259. 43:32absolutely okay so let's count on that
1260. 43:36and uh
1261. 43:37besides that you have a wonderful night
1262. 43:39and thank you so much for coming on
1263. 43:42thank you so much for having me have a
1264. 43:43good one i love your cat by the way
1265. 43:48oh thank you this is louis cleopatra
1266. 43:50morningstar
1267. 43:52oh
1268. 43:56all right have a good night
1269. 43:58you two have a good one bye