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Episode 34: Henry Lee Lucas - Kathleen Doyle Case & FBI Fraud Part 1 — Transcript

by Vic Feazell · 4,997 words · 699 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00this is the Vick fazil Show podcast
0:04sponsored by Moroso wood-fired pizzeria
0:08Pinewood Coffee Roasters and the law
0:11offices of thick gazelle we're on the
0:19air Vick hi Jonathan we've had a good
0:22week man we've had a cool week real cool
0:24it's very exciting seeing all this
0:26publicity coming out about Netflix the
0:30confession killer a confession killer it
0:32airs day after tomorrow December the 6th
0:36I'm super excited I'm starting to see
0:38all this press come out about I saw the
0:40Rolling Stone article and I think it was
0:42like slate news did one and every day
0:45it's going nuts
0:46yeah daily beast newspaper in Boston
0:50newspapers all over the country
0:52everywhere except Waco I don't know why
0:54you know like who'd I ever piss off in
0:58Waco I don't get it but everywhere but
1:00Waco has run this story
1:03and when I say Waco I'm talk about the
1:04Waco newspaper I don't I don't want to
1:06have to be like able Reena and just
1:08refused to talk to them you know but you
1:11know but the TV stations have already
1:14looked at it and put some you know
1:16you've had four four stations we have a
1:18another news news crew coming Monday to
1:21do our Monday or Tuesday maybe choose
1:23maybe to do an interview yeah don't
1:25scare them
1:25but look at the calendar whatever it is
1:27we'll be here whatever you got on your
1:29calendar will be here we've got some
1:32good reviews too here's one from
1:35Christina more seriously y'all growing
1:39up in Waco I remember hearing about
1:41three news items number one Henry Lee
1:45Lucas number two Lake Waco triple
1:48murders
1:49number three Vic fazil but I was too
1:52young to understand any of it now that I
1:55have found the Vic fizzle podcast I
1:57can't get enough of this crazy period in
2:00Texas history now there is going to be a
2:03Netflix documentary on Henry Lee Lucas
2:05and I can't wait I highly recommend the
2:08big fizzle podcast
2:10christena more thank you
2:13sounds nice really nice thank you very
2:15much Christina
2:17keep listening do review so I can send
2:20you some Snickers wagon swagger book or
2:25something we still have a copy of last
2:29great days of radio to give away we have
2:31one one left back there we left that
2:33ball up from here yeah and if somebody
2:37if we get more than one you know what
2:39more than one review as long as it's not
2:41a hundred of them I'll buy a couple more
2:43of those books and drive it down the
2:45temple and have Lin seinem Lin wants to
2:49have me on his podcast I don't know what
2:51we'll talk about but yeah I want to be
2:54on Lin's podcast he started one recently
2:56and it's it's going crazy
2:58so yeah it's called planet logic planet
3:00logic Lin Willy like I've said before I
3:04don't agree with much anything Lin said
3:06but he's my dear friend and I love him
3:08and I recommend his podcast I really do
3:11yeah get a different point of view
3:13yeah a different point of view he
3:14doesn't believe in global warming and I
3:17I guess I do the scientists do and so
3:23I've been listening to what scientists
3:25have to say about it there we go
3:27there you go okay we're sorry science
3:31that won't send you to hell if you
3:33believe in science at all or if you even
3:36believe in hell personally I do not well
3:41that's good my dad you know he's a
3:42Southern Baptist preacher oh yeah
3:44he's blind and deaf and crippled now but
3:47he still got his mind he's funny as hell
3:49I talked to him every day but he used to
3:52have this phrase when he was preaching
3:54life's short
3:56death certain hell's hot and eternity is
3:59long it spread out that word long it had
4:05like eight O's in it let me get through
4:07hard yeah he they don't make him like
4:12him anymore he was a different kind of
4:13preacher he felt like if he didn't go
4:15for at least an hour yeah he hadn't give
4:17them their money's worth
4:20that's funny yeah people be looking at
4:23their watch
4:24we gonna make it home for the ball game
4:25oh man this I got a I got a email from
4:31an attorney named Gerry Ward Jay Ward
4:38Gerry remember we I couldn't think of
4:42the DA and Lubbock's first name right
4:45we're about the lemons case uh-huh okay
4:47Darnell was all I remembered and she
4:50wrote me she said the former Lubbock
4:53DA's first name is JimBob JimBob JimBob
4:56sounds like something a little bit come
4:59up it would John Bob been mobbed and the
5:02egg Bob and all of that yes funny well
5:04this was Jim Bob Darnell and Jerri Ward
5:07rice me and she says that his first name
5:10is Jim Bob
5:11she said he also convicted a guy named
5:14Tim Cole Tim was later exonerated oh wow
5:19yeah after dying in prison because of
5:21his his asthma wasn't properly treated
5:24so here's somebody later exonerated who
5:28actually died in prison because they
5:30didn't get proper medical care get the
5:32puffer in time there's something wrong
5:34with that yes what's wrong with that
5:36something wrong with that and she goes
5:39on she says this is regarding the
5:40podcast where you mentioned that the
5:42love of police were refusing to let
5:44people look at the files on the Debra
5:47Sue Williamson case right but I want to
5:50point out something else she said just
5:52because I had a conversation with Jim
5:56Bob Darnell I didn't like and because he
6:00really gave Bob and Joyce aluminum's a
6:02hard time - yeah yeah I mean he wanted
6:04to believe that Henry Lucas had killed
6:06Dennis Williamson and so we were we were
6:10crossways with each other on that and I
6:13would say we were adversaries over that
6:15but just because that you disagree with
6:17somebody it doesn't mean they're a bad
6:19person right and Jerry has let me know
6:22that she worked for Jim Bob Darnell back
6:25in the summer of 79 as a law clerk and
6:28through part of 81 about a year after
6:32that she was an ad a an assistant DA for
6:35him oh cool
6:37and she says that he was a nice guy and
6:39I believe that he was truly remorseful
6:42about Tim Cole yeah
6:45when Tim Cole was was on rated and after
6:48he was that died in prison so thank you
6:51Jerry Jerry is a lawyer out in West
6:54Texas she mainly does health care
6:58consultation business stuff cool look
7:03her up Googler Jerry J erri or an
7:06attorney you need an attorney out there
7:08Styx's she went to Texas Tech Law School
7:11yeah now I think she graduated in 1980
7:14so she may not have known Frank Newton I
7:17love Frank Newton Frank Newton was my
7:19Civil Procedure professor at Baylor
7:21uncle and he went to Texas Tech
7:25somewhere around 1980 81 somewhere in
7:28there and became the Dean of that law
7:30school
7:30Dyce yeah so good old Frank Newton he
7:33was smart I mean that guy was smart he
7:37could quote the law backwards and
7:39forwards and when you got out of his
7:41class you knew Civil Procedure nice I
7:44still I still know things that Frank
7:46Newton taught me in that class yes dice
7:49can still hear his voice matter of fact
7:52he asked me a question one time and I
7:54and I was toward the end of the class
7:56and he had gotten right past where I had
7:58finished reading and I didn't know the
8:00answer so in my typical style I made
8:02something up and he looks at me he goes
8:05fazil how to beat you the stick with a
8:08nail in it and yeah you you cannot say
8:12that now you can't now but he was
8:14laughing well he said it I mean he was
8:16the nicest guy I just I just love him
8:19last I heard he was running a he may be
8:23retired now
8:24but for a while there he was running a
8:26nonprofit out of Corpus Christi it was
8:30helping put computers and iPads and
8:34things like that in students hands
8:36that's good yeah really good call and
8:39this was back when the internet was just
8:40really getting started
8:41so Frank Newton if you know Frank tell
8:45him I said hi
8:46if you're out in West Texas and you need
8:48a good lawyer look up Gerry ward yeah
8:52we've got some other things to talk
8:54about
8:55we had another winner that I forgot to
8:58mention for our careless whispers book
9:00oh cool yeah right here in Waco chance
9:03cuts cool
9:04good old chance he's a friend of ours a
9:07fan of the podcast
9:08I like chance a lot and he's also got
9:13something to do with this baler
9:16Christmas that's coming at the channel
9:17tin puts on every year what is that it's
9:21a big musical and all the choirs and
9:25orchestras come together from all over
9:26Baylor and put on this huge Christmas
9:29musical I think it's a Jones Hall is
9:32that Ryan Baylor campus uh-huh it is and
9:35Channel 10 kW TX they air the whole
9:41thing live without commercial
9:45interruption what Wow how can they
9:48afford to keep the lights on well
9:49because they have people like me willing
9:51to sponsor it the law office of Vic
9:53Fazil is a proud sponsor of the Baylor
9:56Christmas program this is our second
9:58year in a row to sponsor that thank you
10:00for paying for no advertisements Vic
10:02well they're given me other
10:03advertisements they we get an
10:05advertisement at the beginning and at
10:06the end and then all the promos I'm
10:10telling about it that it's coming and
10:12it'll mention this is gonna be brought
10:14to you commercial free by a couple other
10:16people I don't know who they are yet and
10:18the loss is a victory I know we're the
10:21only law office that's sponsoring the
10:25Baylor Christmas Fair and that was
10:28brought to my attention first by chance
10:30cuts and he works for channel 10 if you
10:33need to buy some advertising from
10:34channel 10 he's your guy he's the he's
10:37the man he's your man all right Hill's
10:39deals do you good well cool dude is is
10:44that all of this morning's announcements
10:46principal fazil let me look let me look
10:48wait a minute I think we had another
10:51review this is from someone else who
10:53another review and this was actually put
10:57on the the
10:59caste review so you can go to our
11:01podcast and read this review it's from
11:03this the screen name is a del real says
11:10I grew up in Central Texas
11:12I remember watching all of this
11:14incredible story of Henry Lee Lucas
11:16unfold it's so intriguing to hear
11:19first-hand what actually happened Victor
11:22Zell is a class act and it comes out in
11:25his podcast of just how genuine he is
11:29well thank you she says or this person
11:34says I have told my family for years if
11:36you ever need an attorney call Vic hey
11:39that's what keeps the lights on that's
11:42that's what's paying for us to be able
11:44to do this it doesn't cost anything to
11:47listen to this podcast tell your friends
11:49about it
11:51Netflix will air this Friday and as you
11:55know it's streaming so you can go watch
11:57it anytime yep it'll be up there for
11:59years you and I are gonna binge that
12:01thing man
12:02we are gonna binge it and then we'll
12:04probably have a lot more listeners we're
12:07already going way up in the rankings
12:09this is true thousands of new listeners
12:11man yeah global we're global again
12:14global even in Singapore
12:16yeah even on in France yeah South South
12:19Africa's been tacked on to the leper and
12:21we're in most European yeah called
12:24Europe yeah of course Canada Mexico us
12:26so everywhere isn't the word spreading
12:28and there you know like you said the
12:30feedback is great as far as reviews but
12:32yeah we're we're getting a lot of
12:33listeners it's kind of a it's kind of
12:35mind-blowing when we log in and see our
12:36statistics is going through the roof now
12:38it's like whoa whoa whoa yeah so leave a
12:42review and look at our store page we got
12:47some cool merchandise t-shirts around
12:49their way but these shirts are on their
12:51way
12:51we've got stickers we've got bumper
12:53stickers we've got coasters yeah yeah
12:56cheap fun little things pretty soon
12:58we're gonna have coffee yes the labels
13:02being worked on as labels are being made
13:04right now the coffee is being roasted
13:07over at Pinewood Coffee Roasters on
13:09Austin Avenue right here in Waco Texas
13:12dillan Washington and his partners they
13:15are the best stop by I had never in my
13:19life had a cold coffee until last year
13:22like just old one of those cold Brews
13:25cobras yeah well where they put it on
13:27ice it just seems so weird to me that's
13:31cuz you your call from your DA's office
13:32a tea cups a day yeah that's true
13:35no hot liquid a cold brew to use one
13:37that was just sitting out on your desk
13:39too long yeah it's true so Dylan talked
13:42me into trying one of their third iced
13:45coffees yeah I'm telling you I was I was
13:48impressed
13:49well Yandy when I went over just like a
13:50month or two ago and and we both had it
13:52we both did just so much flavor in it
13:54it's kind of mind-blowing really it is
13:56and that's the coffee we're gonna be
13:58selling the coffee that they roast yeah
14:02which is just like ridiculously high
14:03quality stuff real high quality he only
14:06does the best he like he and his
14:08partners they actually like go to where
14:10these these beans being harvested like
14:11they go out of country MA actually check
14:14on this stuff personally check on and
14:16personally Fairtrade organic Fairtrade
14:18organic its health it's you know they're
14:22not using Monsanto roundup on it yeah
14:25it's not gonna give you cancer so and
14:28the people growing it are making a
14:30living wage and that's that's what
14:33Dillon cares about Dillon has a real
14:34social conscience so yeah so let's let's
14:38jump into the to the meat and potatoes
14:39of today what do you think all right
14:41so in one of our last episodes we were
14:44talking about the case of Kathleen Doyle
14:47and you know we we kind of touch base on
14:50a little bit but I think you and I both
14:52kind of Pumped our brakes on this thing
14:54because through reading about it we saw
14:57there's a whole lot more to it we wanted
14:59to talk a little bit more about it in
15:00depth in this episode and kind of spin
15:03off into an article that you found that
15:05had to do with with hair evidence with
15:09bite mark evidence and things that
15:11nature being called into question today
15:12and issues that they found with it right
15:14because on this case they actually had
15:19hair recovered from the murder scene yes
15:22that the crime lab said man
15:25next oddest tool and Henry Lucas right
15:28and now they have DNA proving who really
15:32committed this murder yeah yeah because
15:34this young lady was raped
15:35yes so let's talk about the facts of
15:38this okay so again we're top of the case
15:42of Kathleen Doyle who has now been found
15:46to be murdered by a gentleman named of
15:47Dennis and Bowman and more the tale is
15:50September 11th 1980 she was murdered in
15:53her home she was raped and strangled to
15:56death and her husband was in the
15:58military
15:59right he was a US Navy pilot Navy pilot
16:02stationed in the Indian Ocean he was on
16:04the other side of the world
16:06yeah I've been to the Indian Ocean by
16:08the way oh yeah I waded out to my knees
16:11in it it was warm
16:14it's like warmer than bathwater ooh and
16:17I was about to just dive right into it
16:19when I saw a snake slither by well I
16:23don't think I'll do that
16:24oh come on and some of my friends are
16:27going o come down the surfer Beach
16:28there's my snakes there's I don't care
16:30it was a snake in this ocean anywhere
16:32I'm not getting in it how bigger waves
16:34on the Indian Ocean I mean it was like a
16:35real waves out there was it more like it
16:37it depends on where you are already kind
16:39of thing it depends on where you are if
16:41it's it's kind of like Hawaii it depends
16:44on where you are there are some parts of
16:46Hawaii where the waves are really small
16:48in this paddleboard there are other
16:49parts of Hawaii worried if you don't
16:51know what you're doing those waves will
16:52kill you well you know and so there were
16:55I saw some good waves there but there
16:57were just certain spots and and one of
17:02the guys who actually put on the yoga
17:04retreat
17:05exhale yoga retreats his name is Jill
17:09seaman and he he and his wife Rachel
17:12they run exhale yoga retreats exhale
17:17exhale and relax how peaceful it is and
17:20they put on this yoga retreat in Sri
17:22Lanka that I went to they wear MC yogi
17:25and his wife Amanda were the teachers
17:27yeah and then we had that big concert on
17:29the beach but that was at the Indian
17:32Indian Indian Ocean Sri Lanka is an
17:35island right there off of India the
17:37southern tip of India yes it's hot there
17:40here's a little little humid to go hot
17:42yeah real hot so anyway her husband was
17:47stationed in the Indian Ocean otherwise
17:49he'd have been a suspect because I
17:51always look at the husband for guest you
17:53know and fifty percent of time right
17:56it's right right but now her husband was
17:59serving our country in the US Navy so
18:03one of the one of the big things that we
18:04left out what we last talked about the
18:06case was this Bowman's history so this
18:11guy had actually had several criminal
18:14charges filed against him in the 80s and
18:15again this murder happened in 1980
18:22September 11th 1980 so he had a number
18:25of additional charges stacked against
18:27him throughout the eighties most
18:29specifically
18:30assault with the intent to commit
18:32criminal sexual conduct in 1981 so this
18:35is an entire year after after she had
18:37been murdered you know and what this
18:40article we have says is that he was out
18:42of motorcycle whipped out a a pistol and
18:45pulled some chick over into the woods to
18:47try to sexually assault her and somehow
18:49she got away you know and they actually
18:51caught him and gave him five to ten
18:53years for it just like with orange socks
18:56they had a good suspect on worn socks
18:59yup somebody who had done it before yes
19:01and as soon as they can pin it on Henry
19:04then they forget about it
19:06just this murder was pinned on Henry and
19:09artists yes you know and they didn't
19:12even bother to try to figure out where
19:14these guys were at the time didn't he
19:16well remember they actually went down
19:18and talked to Henry remember they went
19:20to the Williamson County Jail like
19:22hundreds of other police departments
19:24sent folks down to blames the county
19:25they talked to Henry and got there I
19:27don't know how long they would talk to
19:28him for what 5 10 30 minutes like how
19:30long did they even get with him they're
19:31so stacked on top of each other exactly
19:34and this article says that they visited
19:36Henry on death row yeah no Henry was not
19:39on death row at that time ya know ya
19:41know he didn't go to death row until
19:44after the Waco grand jury and
19:47after Henry decided he wasn't gonna
19:49confess anymore right Boutwell wanted to
19:53take Henry Lucas back to Georgetown
19:55after our grand jury was over and get
19:58him started confessing again he wanted
20:01to get his his his circus his show
20:04started again he called what me and
20:06Maddox were doing a service yeah he and
20:09Ed Walsh both though they threw that
20:11word around when fazil and Maddox
20:13finished their circus but he wanted to
20:15get Henry back to Georgetown he actually
20:17took Henry back to Georgetown and tried
20:19to get him to confess to some more cases
20:21man after our grand jury the sisters
20:24after all that national publicity and
20:26they were just ignoring it all they
20:28ignored Hugh Ainsworth's article they
20:32ignored all the national publicity that
20:34came as a result of our grand jury yeah
20:37they ignored all the evidence that was
20:39presented to him by Jim Maddox after the
20:42grand jury was over when we compiled the
20:44report they ignored it all said no
20:47you're gonna start confessing again and
20:49they kept threatening Henry with death
20:51row and he said just take me yeah and so
20:54he didn't get to death row until mid 85
20:58right right and he was interviewed for
21:02this I believe in 84 84 somewhere in
21:06there so that would have been in
21:07Georgetown that would not have been
21:09death row Henry did not see death row
21:12even though he had been convicted and
21:14sentenced to death right he never went
21:16to death row not until they were
21:19finished with him we're all used up
21:22Henry you're used up Henry we're gonna
21:25kill you now for something you didn't do
21:28so and another another twist to this
21:31case to is a adopted daughter of this
21:35Bowman guy went missing in 1989 so he
21:38served a five-year sentence for the
21:39attempted sexual assault with the gun
21:41there he got out in 85 he moves his
21:45family to like this just super out in
21:47the middle of nowhere wooded area and
21:48next thing you know this 14 year old
21:50stepdaughters missing just gone you know
21:52and he crates now by yeah she took some
21:54money and you know stole some money out
21:56of my wall and no one's ever seen her
21:57again and to this day she
21:59still missing I'm surprised they didn't
22:01pin that on Henry no that was 89 is that
22:05it too late that as too late so this was
22:08a bad dude Vick he was a bad person dude
22:12and right there in that area too yep
22:16so thank thank goodness they finally
22:18caught the guy that got him off the
22:20streets and worth where he belongs in a
22:22cell like a little animal that's true I
22:25mean to be 70 years old and have
22:27somebody knock on your door and get you
22:30for a murder that was committed what 40
22:33years ago yeah and with the stepdaughter
22:36you have to wonder I mean if I was if I
22:38had to take a guess I would have to
22:39think he probably killed her and threw
22:40out in the woods somewhere out by that
22:42oh yeah that place you're living oh yeah
22:44so be interesting to see if they ever
22:45get a confession out of them for it too
22:48much of a coincidence weird no way too
22:49much and she went missing right as she
22:52was accusing him of molesting her so he
22:56she'd gone to the authorities said this
22:57guy's molesting me and she's missing oh
22:59my goodness why didn't they do something
23:01well again he had this alibi yeah you
23:04know she you know we just told her that
23:07she was adopted so she's going through
23:08psychological times and stole money on
23:11my wallet and left yeah but you know I
23:15had one murder under spell a vicious
23:17murderer this this poor poor woman and
23:19she had turned him in for molesting her
23:21yes yeah yeah this is crazy
23:24well I'm happy he's he's behind bars but
23:27the thing that bothers me and what we
23:29talked about last time yes was that they
23:34had hairs from the murder scene that
23:37they said matched both Henry and artists
23:40yes so how did how did they get to that
23:42conclusion well you know we were talking
23:46about that and I said you know that's
23:49just not right something bothers me
23:51about that yeah and then a couple days
23:53later I come across this article which
23:58was it's out of slate okay and it's it's
24:03dated April of 2015 so I just I just
24:06found it doing a little bit of Internet
24:08research okay they talk a lot you
24:11this about a Washington Post article
24:13there just kind of rehashing the
24:14Washington Post article okay but the
24:19headline is pseudoscience in the witness
24:23box
24:23the FBI faked an entire field of
24:28forensic science oh yeah oh boy says the
24:32Washington Post published a story so
24:36horrifying that it will stop your breath
24:39the Justice Department and FBI have
24:42formally acknowledged that nearly every
24:45examiner in an elite FBI forensic unit
24:49gave flawed testimony in almost all
24:53trials in which they offered evidence to
24:56against criminal defendants over more
24:59than a two decade period before the year
25:022000 Oh No flawed testimony in almost
25:07all all trials which they offered
25:12evidence think that that is horrifying
25:14so what went wrong the post continues of
25:18the 28 examiner's with the FBI
25:22laboratories microscopic hair comparison
25:26unit 26 of them overstated forensic
25:31matches in ways that favored prosecutors
25:34in more than 95% of the 268 trials that
25:41were reviewed so far that is insanity
25:44ninety-five percent two people were
25:48doing it right out of the twenty eight
25:50twenty six percent basically were lying
25:54to favor the prosecution the shameful we
25:58had a favor the prosecution the article
26:00goes on the shameful horrifying errors
26:03were uncovered in a massive three-year
26:07review by the National Association of
26:09criminal defense lawyers and the
26:11Innocence Project oh wow yeah I'm a I'm
26:14a life member of the
26:16National Association of criminal defense
26:18lawyers oh yeah I have been for about 20
26:22years
26:22so I'm gonna get my money's worth out of
26:26that life membership but yeah yeah
26:28that's funny we've got a framed
26:33certificate in the conference room oh
26:36dear yeah it's near the portrait of John
26:40Wayne you have so many frame things I do
26:41and it lists from about 20 years ago
26:45they could get them all on one page then
26:47there's a bunch of us now and all the
26:48life members of the National Association
26:53of criminal defense lawyers nice yeah so
26:56anyway they were looking into this along
26:58with the Innocence Project and they've
27:00they've found that 95 percent were
27:05errors like that that's insane that's
27:08insane how many convictions are based on
27:10hair hair evidence tons tons time we
27:14found your hair at the scene and again
27:16to loop it back that's why we're talking
27:18about this case because in this case
27:19they said no no no Lucas and tools hairs
27:22were found at the scene it had to be
27:24them a guy named Peter new field he's
27:28founder of the Innocence Project he put
27:30it this way he said the FBI is
27:33three-decade use of microscopic hair
27:36analysis to incriminate defendants was a
27:39complete disaster yeah sounds like it
27:44the study was launched after the Post
27:47reported that flawed forensic hair
27:50matches might have led to possibly
27:52hundreds of wrongful convictions for
27:55rape murder and other violent crimes
27:59dating back to at least the 1970s oh my
28:04god yeah but yeah there it is there it
28:08is in 90% of the cases reviewed so far
28:11forensic examiners evidently made
28:15statements beyond the bounds of proper
28:18science Wow
28:21there were no scientifically accepted
28:24standards for for forensic testing none
28:28yet the FBI experts routinely
28:32and almost unvarying Lee testified to
28:36the near certainty of matches of
28:40crime-scene hairs to defendants I'm
28:42nearly certain this hair matches that
28:45defendant and it was a flat lie so these
28:49people are in here reviewing these hairs
28:50going you know the science isn't quite
28:51there yet to where I can properly do
28:53this and give you a total match and then
28:55just kind of goes to the to the feds
28:57it's like no no no that's that's good
28:58enough that's a match it's a match it's
29:00a match they they backed up their claims
29:06by citing incomplete and misleading
29:08statistics drawn from their own
29:11erroneous casework of course they were
29:14within their own fumes men they were
29:17huffing their own fumes Wow and people
29:21are going to prison based on this the
29:24National Association of chrome defense
29:26lawyers executive director Norman ramier
29:29said that the flaws in the system had
29:33been known for years now what we're
29:35finding was that the examiners wouldn't
29:38just simply say that there was a
29:40microscopic similarity between the two
29:43hairs but they would go beyond that and
29:46say it was a hundred percent match now
29:49you just can't do that
29:50come on essentially they mislead the
29:54jury into concluding that the evidence
29:56had a certain value that it didn't
29:59actually have
30:01thank you for listening to the vic-20
30:03vodcast we're a primary source podcast
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30:36you better not rush better just chill
30:40you'll find trouble waiting over that
30:42hill trooper Bob's patrolling tonight
30:46the Law Offices of big fazil wish you a
30:49happy and laid-back holiday season and
30:51if you've been injured by someone who
30:53wasn't driving life back call Victor
30:55Zell at one eight seven seven width in
30:57Drive laid back and low your speed
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31:03principal offices in Waco and Austin
31:07Texas

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