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Episode 13 Jeffrey Deskovic — Transcript

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0:04Dear listeners, I have so much to tell
0:07you and I often don't know where to
0:08start. It seems [music] the world
0:10doesn't want to admit that sometimes we
0:12make mistakes and that sometimes the
0:14wrong person gets punished for something
0:16they didn't do. Not all of us have been
0:18personally affected, but many of us have
0:20been impacted by this reality. and I
0:23feel like it's my responsibility [music]
0:24to share these stories with you and to
0:26tell you what I've learned about
0:28wrongful convictions.
0:32Welcome to Wrongfully Yours, where we
0:34dive deep into stories of resilience,
0:37justice, and the human spirit. And
0:39today's episode is no different. It's
0:41one that stays with you long after
0:43you've heard it. I am joined by Jeff
0:46Desik, an exonery, an advocate, and a
0:49lawyer whose wrongful conviction story
0:52began when he was only 16 years old.
0:56Accused of a horrific crime he didn't
0:58commit. Jeff was coerced into a false
1:00confession, prosecuted despite DNA
1:04evidence excluding him, and then
1:06sentenced to 15 years to life. In our
1:09conversation, Jeff walks us through the
1:12devastating series of events that led to
1:14his wrongful conviction, from police
1:16manipulation and prosecutorial
1:19misconduct to a negligent public
1:21defender and judicial indifference. His
1:25case highlights the profound
1:27vulnerability of youth in the justice
1:29system and the systemic failures that
1:31can turn an innocent person's life
1:33inside out and upside down.
1:36This is a powerful, difficult, and
1:39deeply important story. And while
1:42today's episode focuses on the events
1:44leading up to Jeff's conviction, he
1:46didn't let this experience define him.
1:49Upon release, rather than retreating
1:52into anonymity, he made it his mission
1:54to ensure that what happened to him
1:57never happens to anyone else. Now a
2:01lawyer, an advocate, and the founder of
2:03the Jeff Deskovic Foundation for
2:05Justice, Jeff works tirelessly to reform
2:09the criminal justice system and to fight
2:11for the wrongfully convicted. Throughout
2:14my conversations with Jeff, we'll talk
2:16about his journey from inmate to
2:18advocate, the systemic failures that led
2:21to his wrongful conviction, and what
2:23keeps him going in the face of such
2:25adversity. This is more than just a
2:28conversation about injustice. It's a
2:31conversation of transformation, hope,
2:34and the power of one voice to spark
2:37change.
2:39So, welcome. And I am joined by Exonere
2:43Jeff Duskovich. And I am really
2:48interested in hearing your story because
2:51you were faced with so many challenges
2:54at such a young age. And I'm really
2:57hoping you can share some of that with
2:59us because I don't think a lot of people
3:02think of wrongful convictions happening
3:03to young people.
3:06>> Right. Absolutely. I was um I was
3:08arrested for at at 16 for a murder and
3:11rape which I uh which which I didn't
3:14commit. And uh you know ultimately I was
3:16um wrongfully convicted of uh based on a
3:19coerced false confession, prosecutorial
3:21misconduct, fraud by the medical
3:23examiner, terrible public defender. Uh
3:25the conviction occurring of course
3:27despite a pre-trial negative DNA test
3:29result and as we'll get into in the
3:31course of the story, I was there for 16
3:33years before I reemerged at age 32 um
3:37with my conviction overturned based on
3:39actual innocence grounds.
3:42So, there's a lot to unpack just in that
3:44one statement. I mean, the factors that
3:48you've listed that contributed to your
3:50wrongful conviction, you've got so many
3:53of them. And perhaps what is most
3:57striking is that you said you had DNA
4:00evidence that excluded you at the time
4:04of your conviction. Correct.
4:06>> Correct.
4:07And somehow the justice system pushed
4:12you through to ensure you were convicted
4:15at the age of 16.
4:17>> Well, I was arrested at 16. Uh that your
4:19statement is correct except I was
4:20convicted at 17. So I had gotten bailed
4:22out. I turned 17 and um shortly
4:25thereafter the trial commenced. So let
4:28me unpack let me start to unpack some of
4:30the some of these things. Um, so I got
4:32on the uh I got on the police radar
4:35because um they interviewed a lot of
4:37students in the high school and some of
4:38them told the police that they might
4:40want to talk to me because I was quiet
4:42to myself, I didn't quite fit in. Uh, in
4:45addition, this was my first brush with
4:47death and I had an emotional reaction
4:50and the police thought that given that I
4:52barely knew the victim, uh, Angela Caro
4:54was her name. She was a 15-year-old
4:56immigrant from Colombia who had been in
4:58the country for a year and a half
4:59leading a very sheltered life as I
5:02learned later. Uh she was in two of my
5:04classes. I was in two of my class as a
5:06freshman, one as a sophomore. I knew her
5:08name, she knew mine. That was really the
5:11that was really the extent of it. So the
5:14police thought, well, your emotional
5:15reaction is disproportionate to what
5:17your reaction is. Uh and then third, a
5:19follow-up factor is that they got a
5:22psychological profile from the NYPD
5:25which purported to have the
5:26psychological characteristics of the
5:27actual perpetrator and I had the
5:29misfortune of uh matching that. So it
5:32was a reinforcing factor.
5:35Uh so for about 6 weeks, the police
5:37played this cat-and- mouse game with me
5:39and in which half the time they would
5:40speak to me as a suspect and the other
5:42half they would pretend to need my help
5:45to solve the crime. So when they would
5:47push too hard and I'd get frightened and
5:48I'd want to get away from them, Jeff is
5:51this junior detective helper theme was
5:53developed. They would say things like,
5:54"The kids won't talk freely around us.
5:56They will but they will around you. Let
5:58us know if you hear anything. Stop in
6:01from time to time." They would ask me
6:03opinion questions and congratulate me
6:05that my opinion was was correct. Prior
6:08to being a teenager, the career that I
6:09wanted to have when I grew up was to be
6:11a cop. So, this unexpected early
6:13opportunity to do this quasi police work
6:15along with my age, 16, was how they were
6:18able to pull the wool over my eyes as to
6:20the absurdity that a 16-year-old would
6:21be able to help in an active homicide
6:23investigation.
6:24>> So, they were just playing on all kinds
6:27of like on your emotions, on your
6:32aspirations, on just your like ignorance
6:36of the law at that point in time.
6:40>> 100%. And I and the other factor that
6:42they utilized also was I came from a
6:45single parent household. My father was
6:46never involved in my life at all. And
6:48that intersected with the good cop bad
6:50cop technique in which one officer was
6:52pretending to be my friend. So in time I
6:55began to look at him as a father figure.
6:58So eventually they got me to agree to
7:00take a lie detector test. They said,
7:02"Look, we got some new information in
7:03the file. We want to share that with
7:05you. that's going to allow you to be
7:07even more helpful to us, but you have to
7:09take and pass the polygraph first. So
7:11the next day, rather than report to the
7:13high school for the test, uh, I went to
7:15the police station. My mother and
7:17grandmother thought I was in school, so
7:18they didn't call around looking for me.
7:20They drove me 40 minutes away by car
7:23from the town of Peak, a city of Peaks
7:25Goat. It's in Westchester County, New
7:27York in the United States, uh, to
7:29Brewster, which is in Putham County. So
7:31that meant I couldn't leave anymore on
7:32my own. I was totally dependent upon the
7:34police. They put me in the car with the
7:36officer who's pretending to be my
7:38friend. The bad cop lieutenant was in a
7:40different vehicle. The polygraph was as
7:43a Putnham County Sheriff's investigator,
7:45but he was dressed like a civilian. He
7:47never identified himself as law
7:48enforcement. He never read me my rights.
7:50I never had any clue that he was law
7:52enforcement. I had no attorney present.
7:55They gave me nothing to eat. They gave
7:57me a four-page brochure which explained
7:59how the polygraph worked, but it had a
8:01lot of big words in it that I didn't
8:02understand. But I thought to myself,
8:04well, I'm there to help the police. What
8:06does it matter? Let's just get on with
8:08it.
8:09>> Sure.
8:10>> From the
8:10>> And I think any law-abiding,
8:13self-respecting 16-year-old
8:16would have the same thoughts as you
8:19that, you know, why would you think that
8:21the weight of the justice system is
8:23coming down on you at this point?
8:25>> Correct. And I'm still laboring under
8:27the false idea that I'm this junior
8:28detective helper. So, so then they put
8:31me in in this small room. He gave me
8:34countless cups of coffee, which is like
8:36wire me up metaphorically, and then he
8:39literally wired me up to the wires of
8:40the polygraph and then he launched into
8:43his thirdderee tactic. So, he invaded my
8:45personal space. He raised his voice at
8:47me. He kept asking me the same questions
8:49over again. I wasn't used to talking to
8:52adult males, much less one that was
8:54conducting himself in that manner. So as
8:57each hour passed, my fear increased in
8:59proportion to the time. And he
9:01>> So sorry, you say as each hour passed,
9:04how many hours are we speaking of now?
9:07>> 6 and 12 to 7.
9:09>> Oh my gosh. Of having just somebody
9:11berating you and barging you with
9:14accusations and questions?
9:16>> Yeah. Yes. So to
9:18>> And you're 16 years old.
9:19>> I am 16 years old. Yes. And so at at at
9:23the end, I guess he was frustrated with
9:25his inability to get me to confess to
9:27that point. So he then said, you know,
9:29what do you mean you you didn't do it?
9:32You just told me through the test
9:33results that you did. We just want you
9:36to verbally confirm it. And that really
9:39shot my fear to the roof. And at that
9:41point, the officer who had been
9:42pretending to be my friend, he came in
9:44the room and he told me, "Look, these
9:46other officers are going to harm you.
9:48I've been holding them off. I can't do
9:50that any longer. You have to help
9:52yourself. Look, just tell them what they
9:54want to hear. You they're gonna stop
9:56what they do doing. You can go home
9:59afterwards. You're not going to be
10:00arrested, being young, naive,
10:03frightened. I was 16 years old. I wasn't
10:06thinking about the long term. I was just
10:08concerned with my safety in the moment.
10:10I was in fear in my life because the
10:12fact that I didn't know where I was and
10:13that nobody else knew where I was either
10:16loomed rather large in my mind. you
10:18know, uh, I was overwhelmed
10:19psychologically and emotionally. So, I
10:21took the out which he offered and I made
10:24up a story based on the information that
10:27they gave me that day in a 6 weeks run
10:30up to it. By the time it was all said
10:32and done, I had falsely confessed. I
10:34collapsed on the floor in a fetal
10:35position crying uncontrollably. The
10:38whole episode was not videotaped, not
10:40audio tape, no signed confession, just
10:43their word for it. And later when they
10:45came to court, they left the threat and
10:47false promise out of their story.
10:51>> Of course. And how long was this in
10:53total?
10:55>> Approximately 7 hours.
10:58>> 7 hours. And the And this whole time
11:00your mom and your grandmom don't know
11:03where you are.
11:04>> Correct. and they've never been informed
11:08and you've never
11:10>> asked to speak with them or given the
11:13opportunity to ask to speak to them?
11:16>> No. No.
11:18>> Unbelievable. And and this was just
11:20standard police procedure at the time.
11:23Apparently,
11:24>> I wouldn't say standard because that
11:26implies that they were doing it
11:27frequently, but they it wasn't illegal
11:29and they chose to do that to me. But I
11:32want to add one other thing. of course
11:34that they knew that in general my mother
11:37didn't want me to speak to them because
11:39after my first encounter with them. I
11:41told when they really frightened me, I
11:43told my mother and she told me, "Don't
11:46speak with them." But then they reached
11:48out to me and re-engaged me through my
11:51best friend. And then they convinced me,
11:54you know, well, look, we're the police.
11:55We're the good guys. You can help us
11:56somehow. And, you know, I it didn't help
11:59that I was 16 because that's an age
12:01where, you know, kids start to rebel a
12:03little bit against our our parental
12:05authority. And we know better and our
12:07parents are are we know better than our
12:08parents. Although that's not the case.
12:10objectively, but that's what we think.
12:12So, oh yeah, my but my point is only
12:14that they knew that my mother didn't
12:17want me to talk with them, but they they
12:20they they did so anyway. Now, before I
12:24went to trial, the results of the DNA
12:26test came in from the FBI lab, which
12:28showed that seminal fluid found in the
12:30victim didn't match me. But instead of
12:33acknowledging they made a mistake, the
12:35prosecutor continued to prosecute full
12:37speed ahead. So, first of all, one day
12:40before officially getting the DNA test
12:42results in from the from the lab, the
12:45prosecutor rushed to the grand jury to
12:47indict me so that that way he didn't
12:49have to present the DNA to the grand
12:51jury. Then, uh the way the prosecutor
12:56got around the DNA at the trial was he
12:59got the medical examiner to commit uh
13:01commit fraud to commit perjury. When
13:03there's an autopsy done, there's written
13:05and audio notes which are taken as
13:07findings are made. So, it was only six
13:09months after doing the autopsy. Hundreds
13:11of autopsies later that this medical
13:13examiner suddenly said, "Try to follow
13:15this. It's tricky." He said he
13:18remembered that he forgot to document
13:22medical findings which he claimed showed
13:25that the victim had been promiscuous,
13:27which is what opened the door for the
13:28prosecutor to argue, "Aha,
13:31that is how the DNA doesn't match Tesco
13:34and yet he's guilty. She was sleeping
13:36around." And then he took it to he took
13:39his lie to a further level by naming
13:42another youth that he claimed had slept
13:44with the victim. But he never tried to
13:47set the proper evidentiary foundation
13:50for that. He never, for example, got a
13:52DNA test result from this other student
13:54that he falsely said slept with the
13:56victim. He never called him as a witness
13:58to give testimony to that effect. He
14:00just made the unsupported argument to
14:02the jury. And he got away with that
14:04because of two factors. So firstly, the
14:06victim's family was not coming to court.
14:09So they had no idea what was being said,
14:11the horrible things that they were
14:12saying about her in the furtherance of
14:14convicting me. But more secondly, more
14:17importantly, the public defender that I
14:19had essentially didn't defend me. So
14:22first of all, he rarely came to see me.
14:25Whenever he did visit me, uh he and I
14:28tried to explain to him that I was
14:29innocent and what happened in an
14:31interrogation room, he was always
14:33shutting me up. One time he told me he
14:35didn't care if I was guilty or innocent.
14:37He never explained to the jury the
14:39significance of the DNA not matching me.
14:41He never used that to argue that that
14:43proved that the confession was coerced
14:45and false. He literally never
14:47cross-examined the medical examiner. He
14:49stood up in court and said, "You're
14:51going to be pleased to know that I don't
14:53have a single question for you. My
14:57lawyer would not would not allow me to
15:00testify." So, when you defend a case
15:02where there's a false confession, it's
15:04important that you answer that
15:06confession. You explain that confession,
15:08you disprove that confession, bring it
15:10all together in your closing argument.
15:12But he didn't do that. So, I'm talking
15:14>> Okay. So, I I really have to ask you,
15:17>> what did your lawyer do? Cuz we're
15:20hearing so much of what he didn't do.
15:24>> Well, he didn't.
15:25>> He might as well have not had a lawyer.
15:27>> I agree with you. Well, he didn't
15:30interview my alibi. I told him where I
15:33was and who I was with, and he never
15:35interviewed him, much less called him.
15:37But I want to make another point about
15:39some of the other Well, he didn't pick a
15:42he didn't pick a lane and go down it.
15:44So, sometimes he told the jury that I
15:47never confessed at all, and at other
15:50times he told the jury I did confess,
15:52but that it was coerced. And at still
15:54other times he he told them that it was
15:57a false confession, you know. And the
15:59last thing is that he should not have
16:03represented me in the first place
16:04because of a conflict of interest. This
16:07other you this other youth that the
16:09prosecutor was falsely saying had slept
16:11with the victim was represented by
16:13another member of the same public
16:16defender agency and specifically the
16:18lawyer that was supposed to be
16:19supervising him on my case. So that
16:23conflict prevented the defense from
16:24asking him
16:26>> to give a DNA sample. It prevented the
16:28defense from calling him as a witness,
16:30you know, and ultimately I based on all
16:33of that um you know, well, let me say
16:36one other thing. The victim's clothes,
16:38including the bra, had been entered into
16:41evidence by the prosecution. The jury
16:44asked to see the bra, which was
16:46important because that intersected with
16:48a statement that was coerced out of me
16:50in which I said I ripped the bra off. So
16:52there's some bras, the way that they're
16:54made, you can't rip it off of a body.
16:56It's impossible. So when the jury asked
16:59to see the bra, that's when the judge
17:00said that the clothes, including the
17:03bra, had been left in the courtroom and
17:05that the janitors apparently thought it
17:08was garbage. So, it was thrown out and
17:11it wasn't available to be used.
17:14>> Come on.
17:16>> And lastly, the the the judge allowed
17:19the polygraphist to repeatedly tell the
17:22jury that I lied when I denied
17:25committing the crime while banning my
17:27lawyer from asking him any questions
17:29about the methods he used to arrive at
17:31his opinion. So, putting it all together
17:34and then with the jury note at the end
17:36on the third day of the deliberation,
17:38they sent out a note asking, "Well, if
17:41we can't come up with the verdict, we'll
17:43be will be kept sequested over the
17:45Christmas holiday." And the judge said
17:47yes. I learned many years later it was
17:5011:01 for a conviction at that point.
17:52But, but there was a hold out and the
17:55hold out thought I was innocent, but
17:57they were all pressing the hold out. And
17:59when the answer to that question came
18:00in, that ratcheted the pressure up.
18:02Nobody wanted to be there over the
18:03Christmas holiday
18:04>> obviously.
18:05>> And so he switched his vote and the end
18:07result of it all was I was found guilty
18:10and I was given a 15 to life sentence
18:12despite the judge telling me maybe you
18:14are innocent and I was sent to a maximum
18:17security of prison where you know I
18:19ultimately spent 16 years before being
18:22exonerated.
18:24>> So given all the evidence that was
18:26presented the judge had his doubts that
18:30you were guilty. Yes.
18:33>> And yet you still received this sentence
18:37because I mean there is just such a
18:41confluence of errors and factors going
18:44into making this wrongful conviction.
18:47And I cannot even imagine
18:50what it would be like to deal with that
18:53now as an adult, let alone as a
18:5616-year-old. like that is just
18:59absolutely
19:01um mindbending
19:03for me and it it gives me anxiety just
19:06to think about it. Um, so I notice we're
19:09just about at time, but I'm hoping
19:11Jeeoff you will come back because I feel
19:14like there is so much more to your story
19:17and that you can also fill us in on what
19:20you're doing now because I know
19:23following you on social media, you are
19:26doing so many important, incredible
19:28things and I'm hoping you will share
19:30some of that with us next time.
19:32>> I would love to come back.
19:34>> Perfect. Thank you so much.
19:38I cannot thank Jeff enough for sharing
19:40such a raw and powerful account of what
19:43he endured. His story is a sobering
19:46reminder of how easily the justice
19:48system can fail, especially when youth,
19:51power imbalances, and tunnel vision
19:53collide. Jeff's resilience is nothing
19:56short of remarkable. And as difficult as
19:59this part of his story is, it's only the
20:01beginning. As you heard, he'll join us
20:04again next time to talk about the road
20:06to exoneration, his advocacy work, and
20:08how he's using his experience to drive
20:10real change in the justice system.
20:12[music]
20:13And while today's letter may have piqu
20:15your interest, this is only part of the
20:17story. [music] There's still so much
20:18more to tell. The effects of wrongful
20:21convictions are farreaching. They touch
20:23us all. I'll write to you [music] again
20:25soon as I continue my conversations with
20:27those whose lives have been impacted by
20:29a wrongful conviction. But until then, I
20:32remain wrongfully yours.
20:36If you have something that you want to
20:38talk about with me, or even if you want
20:40to just send me some words of
20:41encouragement, you can drop me a line at
20:43wrongfully [email protected].
20:46You can also check out my website,
20:48kellylozone.ca,
20:50for more [music] information about me
20:51and the kinds of things that I do. If
20:54this episode moved you, please consider
20:56sharing it with others, rating and
20:58reviewing us, and following the podcast
21:00so you [music] don't miss what comes
21:02next. And as always, thank you so much
21:05for listening to Wrongfully Yours, where
21:07we believe that telling [music] these
21:08stories is the first step towards
21:10preventing the next injustice. And until
21:13next [music] time, stay curious, stay
21:15hopeful, and keep fighting for justice.

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