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Episode 11: Building Trust: How BCBAs Can Best Support Caregivers | FREE ABA CEU — Transcript

by Blossoming Together · 9,441 words · 1,292 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00welcome back to the blossoming together
0:01podcast today we have a guest speaker
0:04her name is Abby and before we get into
0:06the introductions me and Krishna are
0:08just going to go over some of our
0:09objectives objective one identify ways
0:12you as the bcba can show show support to
0:15the
0:16caregivers and objective two is
0:18understand how to choose what
0:20evidence-based procedures parents are
0:22more likely to
0:24follow all right so like I said we have
0:27Abby here on today Abby will you kind of
0:30talk to us about what your role looks
0:32like right now you have a
0:34consulting company right yes so I have
0:39been in the field of ABA for about seven
0:41and a half years um I've been a bcba
0:45close to four and a half of those and I
0:48started in very much like a clinical
0:50setting and um up until recently stayed
0:54in a clinical setting but had recently
0:56been in some like Clinical Director role
1:00and those were a lot of fun but I'm a
1:02mom of two and so I started to look at
1:05other opportunities for me to still be
1:08able to be an ABA but also be available
1:12a little bit more for my little ones and
1:13so um in my community there's a little
1:18bit of a gap in care for um families who
1:23want ABA but maybe not like your
1:27comprehensive model and so so that is
1:31why I started my small consulting
1:33company is mainly for those kiddos who
1:36need really short amount of hours um and
1:39then families who maybe just want some
1:42um Consulting for them and maybe don't
1:44even need the hours for their kiddos so
1:47that is um what my little consulting
1:50company does well it sounds amazing
1:53because I feel like especially like the
1:54parent training portion sounds so cool
1:56to me where you can help families learn
1:59on what they need to be doing at
2:01home yes I feel like there's so many
2:04families who don't even know that's an
2:06option like isolated where they think
2:08it's like comprehensive this is all you
2:10can
2:12do yeah I also think it's really cool
2:14because then like the parents that
2:16you're providing the Consulting to
2:17they're prioritizing the parent training
2:19whereas I feel like sometimes when it's
2:21like the more comprehensive care parent
2:22training goes under the rug 100% when it
2:26feels like a requirement that's I feel
2:29like harder to get Buy in with
2:31caregivers but when especially when
2:34families are seeking that support and um
2:37for me I'm not credentialed with
2:39insurance on purpose and so that even
2:42more like when parents are having to
2:44private pay for that service they're are
2:46more apt to want to be there and show up
2:50but that also puts a lot of pressure on
2:52me or the person providing service
2:54because you're like oh my gosh like we
2:55need to make sure that they're getting
2:57what they're paying for the highest
2:59quality Care
3:00yes yeah
3:02great so you also me and you were
3:05talking before you also like teaching a
3:08lot right that's where you kind of found
3:09the CU route yes so my it's called tagon
3:14Behavior Consulting and I am a CU
3:16provider my company is a CU provider so
3:19um it's an organization provider which
3:21means that other people can provide cus
3:24under me as long as you know we meet the
3:26a provider um requirements and so that
3:29has been really fun because another Gap
3:31I've noticed um in our field is
3:34sometimes you know cus like the grinding
3:37bcba is like what I like to call it like
3:39having the full case load you know very
3:41busy lots of times they don't have the
3:43opportunity to produce content like they
3:46want or that they are experienced in and
3:49so that is kind of what my cus are
3:52geared towards is the grinding bcba who
3:56um either wants to hear really relevant
3:58information for their job or wants to
4:00produce really relevant information for
4:02others that's great I love what you're
4:06bringing to the field Abby and I'm
4:07excited to like see like follow along to
4:10see your upcoming projects so well I
4:13love what you guys are doing too you
4:15guys are providing free cus to everyone
4:19I already so there was someone who came
4:21to my CE that you were at who says that
4:23she's watched every episode sense of you
4:25guys because it's like she's really busy
4:28her she's not getting
4:30um like reimbursed for CU at this point
4:32in her life and so being able to get
4:34free ones through you guys has been a
4:36game Cher for her oh that makes me so
4:38happy that's our goal yeah so I was at
4:42your first ceu and that's kind of where
4:44we kind like met and one of the things
4:46that really resonated with me was the
4:48story you shared about your son do you
4:49want to kind of talk about it and that's
4:51how we kind of go into our topic today
4:54yeah so my son he is almost 6 months old
4:58and he has not even going to try and say
5:00the name of it but it's basically a flat
5:03part of his head um just based off of
5:06some people think it's because of what
5:08how they're born some people think it's
5:10just how they're laying but ultimately
5:12has a flat spot and so um we've been
5:14seeing some providers uh to help with
5:18that ultimately he's getting a helmet
5:20because it's just not working with like
5:23Physical Therapy but um a provider I had
5:26seen how was trying to teach me some
5:28strategies of how I can work on that and
5:31some of the strategies she was telling
5:33me were just not feasible for my
5:37everyday life because I have a toddler
5:39and a newborn and some of the things she
5:41was asking me to do was like okay like
5:43every so often like wake up in the
5:45middle of the night check the head
5:47placement and move his head so that it's
5:51not on the flat spot and I'm like okay
5:53I'm already not AEP deprived mother yeah
5:57I am like there's no way I'm doing that
6:00and so I think of that
6:03situation and well I actually really
6:06like her it's not that I dislike her but
6:08it's just like I'm I'm just G to do a
6:10helmet then because I'm not going to do
6:12that when their profession they don't
6:15realize like the UN like how unrealistic
6:17or like how unreasonable it might be for
6:19the parent yeah yeah and that's I mean
6:21it goes for us too so that's why you
6:24know I was really interested in creating
6:26this um like a parent training um some
6:30like really realistic strategies for my
6:32first CU because I had experience like
6:35that one um where some of the strategies
6:39that I was being taught to do just like
6:41really felt like you know I wasn't doing
6:44enough for my kid because I wasn't
6:46willing to do that but also like I know
6:50it's not realistic so making sure that
6:53we teach parents on our end what's
6:55really realistic um that just like
6:58really hit home for me when I was on the
7:00other end of services I was just
7:02thinking about like ustra she was kind
7:04of letting me know a little bit about
7:05the presentation you presented and
7:08talking a little bit about the
7:09difference between parent education
7:10versus parent training so could you
7:12describe like what the difference is
7:14with
7:15that yeah so um there is a 2015 article
7:19that really goes into depth about the
7:21difference between parent training and
7:23Pa education um and one of the biggest
7:28differences is par educ is just like a
7:30very broad general information about ABA
7:34Andor autism and then parent training is
7:38very specific and individualized to the
7:41person receiving the service um and so
7:45the research basically just dove into
7:47like what is most effective because
7:49there's a lot of barriers providing
7:51individualized parent trainings um and
7:54of course they found that the parent
7:56trainings were most effective and we
8:00Superior to just the general um parent
8:03education so that is the main difference
8:06um sometimes as Behavior analysts we
8:11don't feel like we have the time or um
8:16sometimes it's hard to translate jargon
8:20and so um sometimes we kind of dip our
8:22toes into both um where sometimes we
8:25heavily rely on like our ABA 101 type
8:29presentations that are more geared
8:32around parent education uh because of
8:35some of those barriers we face but
8:37parent training is the most
8:39effective let do you want to start
8:41talking a little bit about uh the
8:43barriers and then we can jump back into
8:45like kind of our experiences with some
8:47of the barriers yeah so um a lot of
8:51barriers that clinicians face like I
8:54said are jargon so it's sometimes it's
8:56really hard to like throw in our AKA
8:59days for big words in our field um
9:03sometimes it's really hard to like plan
9:04ahead for meetings because we have like
9:07billable
9:08expectations um and planning for a
9:10parent training isn't always necessarily
9:13a billable task um unrealistic
9:17expectations so because sometimes we
9:19struggle with translating jargon or
9:21sometimes we have a tough time
9:24understanding what's really realistic
9:25for families we may try to give them um
9:30more difficult type of um things to work
9:33through that just like my son just
9:35wasn't going to work for me and my
9:37family um and sometimes parent trainings
9:40lack structure and ultimately starts to
9:43feel like what's the crisis that we are
9:46here to um fight the week um and less of
9:51an antecedent type
9:53conversation when I started like parent
9:56trainings on my own that's where I felt
9:58like I and ended up like with that last
10:00barrier where like you're dealing with
10:02the crisis of the week or the month and
10:04then like we were working through that
10:06whereas like now like you know after
10:08looking at some cus and like being in
10:10the field a little longer I've learned
10:12the importance of parent training and
10:14starting from the
10:15beginning yes yeah I feel like it's
10:18bound to happen I don't know if it's
10:20going to be me or someone else but like
10:22I feel like we have so much developing
10:26curriculum around like creating goals
10:29for clients and then creating goals for
10:31your supervises and mentorship and like
10:35I'm seeing where's our goals for
10:38curriculums for parent trainings you
10:40know like that's usually parent
10:42trainings and supervision are like two
10:45like the biggest things that we do not
10:47get enough of in grad school and through
10:50our supervision so I feel like those two
10:53topics like we really need to hit harder
10:55on those yeah and that's what like I
10:57feel like new BCBS are searching for now
10:58they're like well crap like what do I do
11:01that's how I felt I was like my own I
11:04don't and I would Google like bcba like
11:06parent training curriculums and
11:08everything I found was also like it I
11:10was like how do I do this it was always
11:13like everything that I found it was like
11:15you were saying with like the parent
11:16education it's like okay explain the
11:18functions of behavior okay do this and
11:20I'm like but what are how are they going
11:21to utilize that like they didn't like
11:23they didn't pay to get an education on
11:24this they're paying to learn how to
11:25apply these skills in their real
11:27environment it's like yeah and the
11:29doctor telling you all about your bones
11:31like yeah I'm s I'm sorry like why do I
11:35need to know this yeah I don't care like
11:37tell how this relate yeah yeah for sure
11:41yep oh my God all right I think person
11:44might have a code word yes so I want to
11:47pause really quick our first code word
11:49today is going to be
11:52collaboration right all right so when
11:55you were creating your training you kind
11:56of broke down some of the strategies
11:58into a few categories I want to go over
12:01the categories real quick and then we'll
12:02dive into like deeper parts of it cool
12:07yeah so um yeah the biggest thing with
12:11these strategies we need to keep in mind
12:13are first there's millions of strategies
12:16you can te Teach family so I just picked
12:18out four that could fit into a one-hour
12:20CU um that I felt like um parents I've
12:24wor used with parents and have been
12:25really successful um but the biggest
12:28thing that we need to in mind with these
12:29strategies are that we are embedding
12:33them into the family's everyday lives
12:35and that the families don't feel like
12:36they have to completely like flip their
12:38lives over just to do these strategies
12:42and so yeah the first one we talked
12:44about in my presentation was playing
12:47which playing can be evidence-based
12:50practice through like non-contingent
12:52reinforcement um choices choices um is
12:55like an AK for preference Assessments in
12:58our field um flexible responding an
13:01edent strategies and then modeling
13:04communication so that looks more like
13:06functional communication training um and
13:10those types of things so those are the
13:11four that we talked about in um my
13:15CE yeah so I wanted to know a little bit
13:18about like in your experience what are
13:21some common issues that parents bring up
13:23when they're like discussing the play
13:25with their children like what is the
13:27challenge for them
13:29yeah so it looks a lot like I don't know
13:32how to connect with my child um my child
13:35doesn't listen to me um I don't know how
13:38to play with them you know they have
13:39very fixed interests and it just isn't
13:42aligning with the play that I'm used to
13:45seeing um I don't know what they want um
13:49and they don't seem interested so those
13:51are some of the common issues that um
13:53may come up and when you can then um
13:57teach parents um a playing strategy so
14:01what are like so when they bring this to
14:03you they're like they're struggling and
14:04they're like naming that this is their
14:06biggest challenge what are some of the
14:08strategies that you're going to tell
14:09them like if this is their primary goal
14:11with playing what would you start with
14:15so I would really want to find out how
14:18much time in the day can they allocate
14:22allocate to playing so let's say it's
14:25like okay before they go to school or
14:28Aba therapy they have about five minutes
14:31or maybe 20 minutes to really just play
14:34with their kiddo and so I'd say okay
14:37let's just look at that time frame
14:39because you're already doing it or you
14:42know you already have the time for it
14:44and a strategy that I would teach to
14:46really um help with the playing aspect
14:51is making sure we're connecting not
14:53correcting um and a way to do that looks
14:56like saying the phrase yes and um and
15:00it's a very easy strategy um once you
15:04practice it a lot of it's not like a new
15:06strategy that I came up with like people
15:08have been using it but um it's really
15:11nice to not just teach like your parents
15:12you could teach your rbts how to use it
15:14during per pairing opportunities but um
15:17basically what it looks like is really
15:19trying to avoid correcting in this time
15:22frame so the parents say they can play
15:24with their child for 10 minutes in the
15:25morning during those 10 minutes really
15:28avoiding saying no or not right now or
15:31no thanks um unless it's of course a
15:34safety issue but in really trying to say
15:38yes and so for example um your child is
15:43taking the crowns and scribbling and
15:46then they start to start to scribble on
15:49maybe a table and you want to say don't
15:52scribble on the table that's not nice
15:54you know we scribble on the paper not
15:56the table but that becomes a correction
15:59and it then stops the pairing from
16:02happening it stops us from connecting
16:04instead we could
16:06say yeah and here's where else I like to
16:09scribble at you said yes an yes and
16:12here's where else I like to scribble at
16:14and you could maybe
16:16find um like an envelope that you don't
16:20care if it's scribbl on you start
16:21scribbling on there and they think
16:23that's so cool and they start to do it
16:25um you could even do that with um
16:30um like if you they don't like the way
16:33you're playing with them so like if
16:34they're stacking blocks and you start to
16:37stack one where they don't like it so
16:40and they may say no don't do that I
16:42don't like it you could then
16:45say yeah me either and this is where I'm
16:48going to put it instead I like that a
16:50lot and yeah a lot of people would think
16:53to say like sorry I didn't know my bad
16:56like and then it kind of really stops
16:58the
17:00so those are that's a strategy that's
17:02really easy to teach to parents and you
17:05can just go back and forth with a parent
17:07of like okay here's here's an example of
17:10like your kid says this to you like how
17:12are you going to use end yes and that's
17:14a good I I also like and I think it kind
17:16of goes into sometimes and even as a
17:18parent I do this with my six-month-old
17:20like when I'm playing with her it's so
17:22natural to like be quizzing in that
17:24moment too just be like oh yep what
17:26color is this or like um just trying to
17:30take it as a functional communication
17:32opportunity oh like no no tell me where
17:33you want to put it instead of that like
17:36oh yes and I'll just put it here exactly
17:38so like what in those situations too
17:41like if because I think parents it's
17:43just innate like they just want to
17:44connect and they they think that that's
17:45connecting so what alternatives do they
17:47have in that
17:49moment yeah so like if they're finding
17:52that they keep trying to prompt
17:54functional communication or they keep
17:55trying you know they have their cute
17:57little toys like touch the yellow like
18:00parents do that even without ABA
18:01training so they may start to do that
18:04and they're not responding you could say
18:07like yeah I don't want to play with this
18:09either I want to play with this inste
18:10you know you could just go along with
18:12what they're doing so like they get um I
18:15see a drum over here one of my kids'
18:17drums they get the drum and you start to
18:19do this and you hand do this they don't
18:21want to do it instead they take it and
18:23they start to stem with it you could
18:25take the other drumstick yeah and I like
18:27to do that too and then you're doing it
18:29together so there there's a lot of ways
18:32that you can just like follow their
18:34redirection yeah and it really really
18:36promotes that connection like you said
18:38and I appreciate that like I feel like
18:40sometimes yeah this for sure there's
18:43opportunities and there's a time for
18:46presenting those arrays and trying to
18:47teach them certain Concepts but this
18:51isn't that opportunity this is our
18:54connecting time I love that so another
18:57thing you mentioned was the choices
18:59parents struggle a lot with like they're
19:01presenting choices or the kiddo isn't
19:03making choices what challenges do you
19:06feel like you fa or parents have shared
19:08with you that they face a lot with
19:10this yeah so I would say some of those
19:13challenges could be like my child is
19:15constantly throwing the fit they're
19:17never using their words um they struggle
19:20to hear no and you know things go um
19:23South when they hear no they can't
19:25handle adversity and they just really
19:27struggle to get their child to cooperate
19:29with them so those are usually some of
19:31the concerns that parents will have when
19:33you can then use choices as a um
19:37intervention what are some strategies
19:40that you suggest like when someone's
19:41sharing that with you or a parent
19:43sharing that with you yeah so um a lot
19:47of times some a lot of times parents
19:50like they struggle with the idea of
19:53choices because they think it then
19:55removes control um out of their hand and
19:59gives their child total control um and I
20:03get that because um I have kids and when
20:06I let my kid just like free range decide
20:09everything sometimes It ultimately
20:12results in more problem behavior um
20:14because there's too many choices now
20:15we're waiting now I can't wait any
20:17longer and now I'm making the choice for
20:19you and we're upset because of it so
20:22giving choices in the form of a choice
20:24of a demand or a choice of a reward can
20:28help because it still allows the parent
20:31to be the provider of the choice um and
20:34can decide how many choices are offered
20:37and um doesn't always have to be like a
20:41reward it can be a choice of demand
20:43which I think sometimes um we forget it
20:45doesn't have to be like you can get yeah
20:48it doesn't have to be in the choice of
20:49like a preference assessment so um like
20:52a choice of demand could look like hey
20:55you know we're going to the grocery
20:56store um you can sit in the front of the
20:59cart or the back of the cart this
21:02doesn't give the child an option of not
21:04going to the grocery store because you
21:06have to go to the grocery store there's
21:07say there's no one that can watch them
21:09they've got to go with you but it does
21:11allow them a choice and um and it avoids
21:15like you putting them just throwing them
21:16in the grocery car and then all of a
21:18sudden they're upset because they wanted
21:19to be in the back or they wanted to hold
21:21your hand they feel like they have some
21:22autonomy once you immediately give them
21:25that choice and it also allows them to
21:27have like an expect
21:29of what's Happening whereas like when
21:30you're taking them directly from the car
21:31seat and throwing them in the like
21:33stroll or like if it's the stroller or
21:35whatever it might be then they might
21:37feel like oh wait I wasn't expecting
21:39that so then they might be having a fit
21:41in that moment I like that yeah that's
21:44true I like to think of this like even
21:46like when getting dressed in the morning
21:47I feel like so many of my familyes
21:49struggle with that like giving them the
21:50option like do you want to wear this
21:52outfit today or do you want to wear this
21:54outfit today and then we'll get dressed
21:56after you like choice or even your shirt
21:59on first or your pants on first like
22:02yeah yeah yeah and it's not and and it's
22:05not us saying what do you want to wear
22:08because once we say that it's like oh my
22:11gosh there's too many options it's
22:13taking too long yeah it all of a sudden
22:15the parents have lost control and it's
22:17overwhelming to wear or your little
22:19friend wants to wear like a dress like a
22:21princess dress and a crown to school it
22:23isn't like in you're not allowed to that
22:25day yeah yes yes so just like letting
22:28your parents um teaching them to um yeah
22:33give choices of demand can be helpful
22:34and then also teaching them that there
22:37are opportunities and choices of reward
22:39too so it can look like um hey you did a
22:44really good job at the grocery store
22:45today you know Mommy wants a dessert um
22:49would you like to go with Mommy to go
22:51get a cookie or some ice cream you know
22:54like something like that all of a sudden
22:56they have a choice um now if you would
22:58said hey you did great at the grocery
23:01what do you want to go do now I mean it
23:03just creates chaos but once you said
23:05give them those choices then they're
23:08excited they get to have some
23:10reinforcement and um can uh increase
23:14motivation cooperation in the future I
23:16really like that that's something that I
23:17didn't think about the way like of
23:20presenting it well like before the
23:22transition is like offering the reward
23:25prior to the transition like offering
23:26them that choice so that I like it gives
23:29them something to look forward to I feel
23:31like a lot of times parents choose the
23:32reward or even me like I recommend I'm
23:34like okay you know that this is
23:35reinforcing let them know okay first
23:37first you're gonna do this and then you
23:39get a cookie or whatever that may be but
23:40I like that you're offer they don't want
23:42a cookie that day exactly cookie dad
23:45already slipped them a
23:47cookie
23:49yeah really like that
23:52y um go ahead sorry um with flexible
23:57responding that you mentioned what are
23:59some common problems parents report to
24:01you about
24:02this yeah so um usually parents during
24:07this teaching opportunity feel really
24:09stuck so um they could feel be saying
24:12things like they know better than this
24:14like I know you know what they're trying
24:17to do um uh they know that this isn't
24:21how to behave uh when I tell them stop
24:24they keep doing it they're always doing
24:26the opposite of what I say so these are
24:28usually families who um have are pretty
24:33frustrated um when I may start to offer
24:37some trading on flexible responding I
24:39think this is like one of the hardest
24:41one yeah this is one of my biggest
24:42barriers because even with a lot of the
24:44anacan strategies that we've already
24:45talked about I feel like in my parent
24:47meetings I'll recommend um like a
24:49strategy but then I hear like well
24:51that's not an option or this is
24:52happening when I do that and it's like
24:54oh wait I don't really know where to go
24:55from here because I'm not in the home or
24:57seeing it at moment so I'm like I'm not
24:59really sure what to offer you at this
25:01point yes it can be hard when we are
25:05teaching others how to flexibly think
25:08because it's hard for us to be flexible
25:10in our thinking as well yeah exactly can
25:13you describe like how we would teach
25:15this to a parent like if say so
25:17sometimes I do my parent meetings like
25:19with the learner but if it's just like
25:20you're meeting with them one-on-one
25:21without the learner present how would
25:22you begin teaching this
25:24skill yeah so I wouldn't say this is
25:27rooted an act because that just opens a
25:30whole can of worms but it really is it's
25:32teaching a lot of like diffusion
25:37acceptance um it is teaching some of
25:40those strategies um so present moment so
25:44um some things I would teach them is
25:46just like a thought process um so for
25:50example like if my kiddo well this
25:53happened the other day she was in her
25:54playroom she has her cup of water and
25:57she's just pouring on the floor and
25:58she's stepping in it I'm like oh like
26:02you know I'm thinking you know better
26:04than this you know you shouldn't be
26:05doing this you're looking right at me
26:07you're like waiting for me to give you
26:10some type of um attention for this but
26:13then like if you stop and think like
26:15okay why is she doing this well she's
26:19doing this because she's having or what
26:22is I'm sorry that was the second
26:23question the first question is what is
26:25she doing so um she's having she's
26:28having fun by stumping on the water
26:31she's splashing in the water that's what
26:33she's doing um so we can teach a parent
26:36to say like just T like what is your
26:38child doing in the moment this is what
26:40they're doing why are they doing it is
26:42could be the second question um well
26:45they're doing it
26:46because they're having fun and you don't
26:49have to go through the functions of
26:50behavior for this you know like this
26:52isn't parents usually can tell why
26:55they're doing something in the Moment
26:56Like This um so looks like they're
26:58having fun they're smiling which tells
27:00me that they're enjoying it so that's
27:03why they're doing it okay so the third
27:05question you can ask yourself is how can
27:08I help this be more engaging for them um
27:12rather than a another correcting
27:15opportunity where now there's a there's
27:17a chance that uh behaviors occur so um
27:21well I can show them that it's fun to
27:25jump in bigger puddles outside so I
27:28could could show them like ooh let's go
27:31get the hose and jump in the bigger
27:32puddle or I can say here's your little
27:35action figure and a napkin like your
27:37action figure is going to jump in the
27:39water and also clean it at the same time
27:42um so there are opportunities for that
27:44of course this is an example that isn't
27:47a safety concern um most likely uh so
27:51there are others where a parent just
27:53going to have to say no and they're just
27:54going to have to clean up you know those
27:56are that they have to yeah and I they
27:59have to decide that for themselves I
28:01think that with the strategy what like
28:03with teaching the parents the flexible
28:04responding is when is it you want to
28:07pick your battles like do you need to
28:10have the power struggle right now and
28:12when they learn this strategy of how
28:13they can incorporate it like whatever
28:15they're doing in play that might not be
28:17what the parent wants in the moment in
28:19another way it's just avoiding those
28:21behaviors in a functional way yes yeah
28:25so that's a really cool strategy that
28:27you you can teach families I think I got
28:30that strategy from um bearded
28:34behaviorists I don't know if you guys oh
28:36yeah oh I have SE on YouTube right yeah
28:39I think so yeah yeah he had he described
28:42some of those types of strategies I was
28:43like that's a great strategy for parents
28:46so yeah so that is deep in um act in act
28:49but definitely don't you know start to
28:52teach the hex oflex at that
28:54time that's kind of where
28:56I so do you feel like when you're
28:59teaching like this flexible responding
29:01would you do you feel like you need to
29:03have a like dedicate a few like have
29:05more than a few minutes to do it would
29:07you suggest like this to parents if
29:09they're saying like this always happens
29:12like right before we're going to school
29:14and my my kid really he's now he wants
29:17to like throw all his shoes out or
29:19something of that
29:21sort I think the first two questions you
29:24could just immediately just ask them
29:26like so what are they doing um they're
29:28throwing their shoes well why are they
29:31doing that well because they're saying
29:34that their feet itch or um when they
29:37throw them their sister laughs you know
29:40they can find those opportunities and
29:42then I think it may take a little bit
29:43longer for you and the parent to yes
29:48like okay how can we make this a more um
29:52connecting activity rather than like an
29:54isolating
29:56one that makes sense definitely agree
29:59and my favorite part of what you said
30:00here is you don't have to teach the four
30:02functions of behavior right here like my
30:04mind that's where I'm like now I have to
30:07like and like it's like they're doing
30:09this because they want teach all
30:13four I think that right yeah yeah I
30:17there was a recent article that came out
30:19that like basically talked about like do
30:22we do FB too often or can we just like
30:26do we all agree that this is what this
30:29is that they're doing and sometimes you
30:31know especially with parents like you
30:33know your child more than we do um which
30:36goes into I think the last um thing we
30:39wanted to talk about last strategy for
30:41sure yes before we get to that yes I'm
30:44really excited to hear about that one I
30:46want to name our second code word is
30:49implementation he you on over you ready
30:52all right and the last strategy we
30:53really want to talk about is like the
30:54modeling communication right so when
30:58parents are reporting to you like
31:00they're having issues with like their
31:02child's communication what do you feel
31:03like you're hearing them most
31:05often yeah so most often it's like um my
31:10child isn't using their words or they
31:13can't handle hearing no they aren't
31:16Cooperative um those types of things are
31:19some of the concerns that parents will
31:21come to me with and then what strategies
31:24are you I mean I feel like this is the
31:25one that we all I feel like are so good
31:27at but like what strategies are you
31:29usually like
31:31suggesting yeah so we are really good at
31:33teaching functional communication
31:35training um obviously but I think
31:38sometimes when we try to go in to teach
31:41like man training or a coic training it
31:44can get really complicated fast for
31:46families
31:47because those like man training and aoic
31:50training can feel like if they don't
31:53respond then what do we do because it's
31:56like okay we're teaching our kid to say
31:58apple say apple and they don't say
32:00anything okay now do we just still give
32:03them the apple or do we wait do we air
32:07correct like how do we feel like let
32:10families feel unstuck in that situation
32:12so instead what we could look more into
32:15is like introvert training so like and
32:19these are just like natural more like
32:21contriving
32:22opportunities um where we like teach the
32:26um family like for example we say let's
32:30go outside let's go outside let's go and
32:34they say outside and we're yay but if
32:36they don't say it you know if they don't
32:38end up saying outside um we it's we feel
32:42a little less stuck because we're we're
32:44already saying it it's not like they so
32:46it's it's more of just a fun way to see
32:49if the your learner will model what you
32:51have to say and another opportunity to
32:54like heavily reinforce if it does occur
32:57um in the no go ahead I'm sorry okay no
33:01I was going to go into the other one so
33:03if you have a question about that one
33:04yeah well I was just going to comment so
33:05we work um I'm sure like you've heard
33:08with us so we work alongside slps
33:10directly and what I like hear with this
33:12is when we're providing the intraverbal
33:14way to model it we are then providing
33:17them an like opportunity to model
33:19without expectations so we're like
33:21modeling it and providing them the gap
33:23for them to fill in but if they don't
33:24that's okay we'll continue the model so
33:26that they're still in the example um but
33:29we're also providing a learning
33:30opportunity because I think sometimes
33:32that's where like it's difficult
33:33especially as bcbas we're like no we
33:35need the learning opportunity in that
33:37moment for sure yeah it's and especially
33:40when we're teaching parents it's like
33:43they need even more grace and they need
33:45even more opportunity for connection and
33:47less opportunity for structured learning
33:49so if introver verbals are the way to go
33:53then we should just go with that and
33:54also like considering their Scripts so
33:58you know I was telling at my CU
34:00presentation that like we could learn a
34:03lot from our SLP friends because scripts
34:06for them mean something and like it they
34:10really do and parents I feel like know
34:13their child's scripts and what they
34:15could mean most um and so I would just
34:19tell parents like if you have a child
34:21that does script just pay attention to
34:23what they're saying and if you know it
34:25relates to something just follow that
34:28and see where it goes um and that if
34:31they do you know aren't following the
34:34right direction or they're finding that
34:36it is causing more um complications than
34:39Solutions then maybe it's time to seek
34:42out like a speech langage pathologist
34:44for like more guidance exactly do you
34:48feel like in your role now because
34:50you're Consulting more that you get the
34:52opportunity to still collaborate with
34:54like slps or do you feel like this is
34:57something tell parents like can you can
34:59you go try to do
35:00this yeah so when I first started out I
35:04was in a uh building with slps and OTS
35:08and so I learned how to collaborate with
35:11those providers like immediately um but
35:14then as I continued to grow into other
35:17roles I wasn't as um like with other
35:22professionals um but as I've started to
35:25work more with schools and I've started
35:27to work more on my own um there's a lot
35:30of other like speech or physical therapy
35:33or OT providers who are also doing
35:35something very similar to me and it's
35:36been so fun because we've really like
35:39I've gotten to know them all and we
35:41really all respect what we're doing in
35:43terms of like trying to fill in those
35:45gaps of care so I do have a lot of
35:48people that I can refer to and plus my
35:51son has been in some Services my
35:53daughter was um receiving OT for
35:55something that had happened to her as
35:57well so um I have been able to
36:00experience like collaboration on both
36:03ends of the spectrum and I feel like
36:05it's made me better being a parent
36:07trainer for sure me and Kirsten talk
36:10about that a lot too actually like how
36:13like even cuz our babies are still
36:14pretty young you have an older one but
36:16as soon as like we had the babies and we
36:18were stuck at home not stuck at home but
36:20we were home like trying to figure it
36:21out we were like some of the things
36:23we've suggested in the past like are bad
36:26so unreasonable
36:28unreasonable like kind of like your
36:30pediatrician telling you to move your
36:31son's head like no way possible I think
36:34one time I told a parent like oh every
36:37time your kid throws like make sure you
36:38just redirect him right like that was
36:40the most unrealistic thing I could have
36:42ever
36:43expected right CU there we think about
36:46it as bcbas like we're so used to the
36:49technician or us working one-on-one with
36:51the learner whereas like at home a lot
36:54of times the child is having much more
36:56independent times than we expect you
36:59know than we think because even like
37:00with my six-month old I'm sitting her on
37:02her mat and I'm in the kitchen like she
37:04has opportunities to do things they
37:05can't block every instance it's just
37:07things you don't consider until you're
37:09in the it's so true it's so yeah so like
37:13you can't just not make dinner because
37:15you know your kid is laying on the flat
37:17spot of their head like you can't just
37:19decide okay we're not going to eat
37:20dinner tonight because I have to watch
37:23him and move his head every single time
37:25he moves it but may maybe if I move it
37:29just more than I was doing before maybe
37:32it is more helpful so I think giving
37:34parents that Grace and making sure that
37:37whatever we're trying to teach them we
37:39are embedding into their current
37:42routines and their current lives rather
37:44than trying to change that all together
37:46is huge because like when I was like a
37:48new
37:49bcba I remember like with potty training
37:52the way that we do it in the clinic and
37:55it's like trying to teach families okay
37:58here's what schedule we're doing so like
38:00how about you guys do it too every 10
38:03minutes do you know here's their
38:05hierarchy of reinforcer find you know a
38:07reinforcer and B it's like you can't
38:09expect parents to to do that so I agreed
38:13since I don't think becoming a parent is
38:16the only way to get better at parent
38:18trainings but I think it can it yeah I
38:23think just becoming a parent like just
38:25taught me that there were that's why we
38:27wanted to provide like education in this
38:29way because we want to be more
38:30empathetic and more understanding and
38:33sometimes we get so set in our ways like
38:35I think it's on us as Educators to like
38:37model what should be expected of some of
38:39our
38:40caregivers yeah 100% I I've realized the
38:44more because when I've started to step
38:46out of like a 9 to-5 clinical role and
38:50more into like the role I'm in now I've
38:53had a lot more opportunities on purpose
38:55to learn more and to
38:58um like attend more events where I can
39:02um just learn more and I'm finding the
39:05more I learn the less I know yeah that's
39:08how I feel that's how I feel I'm like
39:11and I feel like oh my god I've been
39:15horrible fantastic no but like but
39:19there's the sense of like like what was
39:21I like I didn't know better like I could
39:24have done this so much differently like
39:27like you said like the more I know the
39:28more I'm like what like what was I doing
39:31what the heck yeah yeah it can feel
39:33confusing for sure because sometimes I
39:35catch myself like ingesting too much
39:38research or ingesting too many cus I'm
39:40like wait a second like what do I know
39:42now and like I can't tellall all at or
39:45is is it my thought is it my thought or
39:47was this a thought I heard like from
39:50like someplace else right right yeah I
39:54definitely want to make sure like
39:55anything I've learned and I'm teaching
39:56others that like I'm making sure to try
40:01to remember the origin of like where I
40:02heard that from and like give that
40:05person or that company or that whatever
40:07see you credit for it yeah I had a
40:10question with like some of the
40:11strategies that we were like talking a
40:13little bit about today like with your
40:15parent training model and when you're
40:17teaching families this how does your
40:19structure of parent training look like
40:21are you doing it in like their home do
40:23you have like a meeting separate without
40:25the learner or are you doing like
40:27caregiver modeling where you're modeling
40:29with their child and then having them
40:31practice it it just totally depends so
40:35the my private practice is fairly new
40:39and so the way I've been doing that is a
40:42lot through tella Health um but it I've
40:46also contracted with companies prior um
40:49where it looks like um they're with
40:53their their kiddo and where I'm modeling
40:56and then they're doing it also looks
40:57like starting with the Ava 101 type
41:00training and then breaking off from that
41:02when we see fit or when we see that it's
41:06um relatable to them yeah um I've also
41:09done like the um sitting in a conference
41:12room and just like chatting about like
41:15what's going on with their day um I
41:18would say that it's important to connect
41:19to them before too like before you come
41:21in like hard like let me give you this
41:24like I mean they got to get to know you
41:26too yeah we got to do some pairing
41:28before we give them our
41:30toolbox I would say that the I've
41:32learned the most about that from um it's
41:35parenting with ABA her name is lean
41:37Paige she like has really helped me
41:41figure out how to be a better like
41:44partner with parents rather than it
41:46feeling like you're coming to my meeting
41:48for me to talk to you and more like
41:51here's an opportunity for us to get
41:53together and um for the benefit of your
41:57child because that's what I care about
41:59that's what you care about she gives us
42:01really cool um she says this some I
42:04think she got it from somewhere else but
42:06she says something really cool where
42:07it's like sometimes when you have to
42:10explain to parents at the very beginning
42:12like I'm not I haven't climbed the same
42:15Mountain you've climbed this isn't me at
42:17the top of your Mountain saying I know
42:19what to do here's how you can like
42:21succeed it's more like I climbed my own
42:24Mountain you're on your own Mountain I
42:27can just I just have a better view of
42:29like what you're going through but I
42:30have
42:33amazing yeah she she when she said that
42:36I was like I love that and just keeping
42:40that idea in the back of your mind I
42:42think can like instantly produce maybe
42:44more compassion in your parent trainings
42:47here right you shared a lot of like you
42:50know parents come to you with their
42:51concerns and like what they're
42:53struggling with but sometimes I feel
42:55like I get St like when I first meet
42:57family and I'm trying to pair with them
42:59I get like nothing from them sometimes
43:01they're just like yeah it's going good
43:04it's hard especially because like
43:06comprehensive model you know like people
43:08aren't always praying out of private
43:10like out of pocket and they're required
43:11to come to our meeting like what do you
43:13suggest someone do in that
43:16situation I would avoid close-ended
43:19questions so that's where you can really
43:22get stuck in the short answers and
43:25feeling also come prepared paired with
43:27your questions um is a big one and not
43:31just like you know one of the barriers
43:33is feeling like you don't have time like
43:35if you have to like Scribble in the same
43:37questions you're going to ask every
43:38single time that produces like quality
43:43conversation um do it also like asking
43:46them like what you it's kind of feels
43:49silly because sometimes we'll even ask
43:50like our social skills kids but what was
43:53like a high of your week what was a low
43:55of your week like really starting out
43:57with like debriefing with what had
43:59happened um and it sometimes it won't be
44:03about the child sometimes it will just
44:05be about them and that's a way to pair
44:09and then find ways to navigate it to
44:11make it meaningful for their child but
44:13definitely avoid close close uh close
44:17questions and then um making sure you're
44:19debriefing about how their week went at
44:21the very beginning I think something
44:23like a strategy that I've been
44:24developing or like have been practicing
44:27um really I think up in this last year
44:30is it isn't always just about like the
44:33challenge so going in and like learning
44:35the strengths and talking about the
44:37strengths of the week of from their
44:39child really helps them not feel like
44:42this meeting is just about figuring out
44:44Solutions like it's it shows that as um
44:47like a bcba we care about the child and
44:50all of the good that they're bringing
44:52into their caregivers life
44:54too sometimes I like to share the wi
44:57from the CL like the center that week
44:59you know like I saw like say like little
45:01Johnny he did like he said hi to like a
45:03friend and he's never done that before
45:05like sharing that with them as well so
45:08that they and then usually that will
45:10lead to like well we noticed that too we
45:12were at the grocery store and he said hi
45:14to like someone or something of that
45:16sort yeah I think that's great yeah
45:19parents especially with parents with a
45:21child with autism I feel like can
45:24sometimes feel really defeated and all
45:26of like the deficits in all of the um
45:30maybe things that their child isn't
45:32doing that um their friend child of the
45:35same age is doing and finding ways to
45:39incorporate lots of wins and lots of
45:42positives that they're doing I think
45:44could make a big difference as well yeah
45:46yeah I agree and then I also think of
45:48like the grinding bcba like you talked I
45:50like I love that word the grinding BCB
45:52but even noting that things down in
45:53supervision that you saw on like your
45:55notepad like that you could talk about
45:57in parent train because that doesn't
45:59take long that won't like oh like I saw
46:02these behaviors occur like have you seen
46:04them at home would that be a good
46:05question to ask you feel like yeah yeah
46:08I definitely think it could be um there
46:11is a research
46:13article um I can't remember who it's by
46:17but they give like a whole list of like
46:20here are behaviors that your bcba can
46:23engage in during a parent training that
46:25shows active listening that shows that
46:28you are being compassionate and like
46:30it's almost like a little task list for
46:33us that we can then go back and say okay
46:35did I do this yes yes you could even
46:38give it to the parent during like a non-
46:40prompted time it could feel really
46:41uncomfortable if you do and say fill
46:43this out for me now but like
46:44opportunities to do it like on a a
46:47schedule here's like some things that
46:49we're trying to get better at during
46:51your parent trainings here's a list of
46:53like does your bcba do this with you so
46:55I think that those be great
46:57opportunities as well to like get better
46:59at your parent trainings and making them
47:01feel like you know you are there for
47:04them rather than to like just tell them
47:06what to do all the time yeah and to
47:07teach
47:09them carren did you do the last code
47:11word the third I was yeah I was waiting
47:14until the end of this conversation our
47:16thir you can do that and then I have one
47:17more question okay our third code word
47:20today is
47:23consistency all right and then I just
47:25thought of this like for both you and
47:27Abby and cson like say you're you've
47:30been stuck in like a model that you
47:32don't love you know you're bcba you've
47:34been doing it like you know a way you're
47:37not in love with you're stuck how do you
47:39suggest someone flip the switch in
47:42parent trainings or you know like
47:44parents are used to you just asking
47:46about the crisis of the week they're
47:48just used to like some education but
47:50you've learned like you say you just
47:51finished the CU and you've learned like
47:54things that you can do better and things
47:55you want to try like how do you how
47:57would you like change what are their
47:59stuff you don't want to wait till the
48:00end of services right to like start with
48:02a new kiddo would change right now yeah
48:05I would say um the first thing I would
48:08do is be totally transparent with the
48:10family I would tell them look here's how
48:13I've been doing things um I want to
48:15change things up I don't want it to like
48:17feel really like awkward for you because
48:19now all of a sudden now I'm asking
48:20something different but just let me know
48:23how you do or don't like it but I just
48:25want to be fully transparent like I am
48:27trying to change some of the way I do
48:29parent trainings and here are some of
48:31the reasons why so I think that there's
48:34plenty of reason to be totally
48:36transparent and not just like try things
48:38randomly for the parent just be like
48:40what's going on you know so that gr this
48:43is the group yeah yes so transparency in
48:46the form of like being like uppr at the
48:50beginning and then transparency in the
48:52form of like being willing to hear
48:54feedback on how it's going in the
48:56process right I really like that that
48:58makes a lot of sense and I think also
48:59remembering like that doesn't make you a
49:01bad like bcba like you know you just
49:03learn like some more stuff and you're
49:05ready to implement it now yeah I think
49:08would even say it makes you a better
49:09bcba for willing to Pivot and try some
49:12new things yeah I'm sure it's something
49:15that the know yeah like the the conf the
49:19confidence piece like when you're not
49:20fully confident in yourself you
49:22sometimes get stuck and you're like well
49:25I don't know what to do now like I've
49:27been especially as a new bcba that
49:30impostor syndrome that you feel I feel
49:32like it was like the first year or two I
49:33was like okay I got my degree I passed
49:36my exam I'm supposed to know all of this
49:37why don't I know
49:39anything and feel like I would
49:41compensate in like for sure yeah I
49:45totally agree I would bcbas we like
49:48checklists we like things very black and
49:50white and we like struggle with dialogue
49:54sometimes and that's what parent
49:55trainings really are and so maybe a good
49:58like first step to to dialogue is like
50:03like I said that research article that
50:04has those like lists of things to like
50:06do as a bcba providing parent training
50:09like just having that and like using
50:12that as like you're okay I did this I
50:14did this I did this I did this and being
50:16able to fade that back while you start
50:18to then become your own um parent
50:22trainer could may be helpful because we
50:24are used to having like a checklist or a
50:27task analysis that we have to follow
50:30maybe easier yeah yeah well I hope going
50:33forward people start thinking about this
50:35and then we start developing better like
50:37parent training goals like I feel like
50:39people struggle with that too like how
50:41to write any of this as a goal when
50:43you're I mean you get to work with a lot
50:45of like private pay clients so you're
50:47not submitting it to insurance but for
50:49some of us that are like what do you
50:52suggest yeah I mean up until recently I
50:55was doing all in insurance and so I
50:58totally get that
51:00concern I think that sometimes we over
51:04um like we overexp our parents to be
51:07meeting this like 90% Criterion across
51:09so many sessions or you know how are you
51:12measuring that ex exactly is it a good
51:17expectation for a parent
51:20to I don't know like man
51:24train uh at 90s
51:27across you know two consecutive weeks by
51:30the time we meet again next time and
51:32like what does that even mean for the
51:33parent and like is that even something
51:37the parent can feasibly do so I think
51:40like rethinking like our Mastery
51:43criteria could be a good first star in
51:46creating parent training goals that are
51:48a little bit more realistic but you also
51:50have insurance that you have to also
51:53abide by so that can be really tricky
51:55yeah
51:57well thank you for joining us we really
51:59appreciated having you on you brought a
52:02lot of great Insight that we're already
52:04like really excited to share with
52:06everyone it's been so fun to learn like
52:08new strategies from you I'm glad since I
52:10didn't get to do your first cuu I'm glad
52:12I got to hear them here I'm glad yeah
52:15this was fun I'm excited to keep
52:17learning about parent trainings too
52:19because although I feel like I've got a
52:20good grasp on some of it the more you
52:23learn the less you know so yeah that's
52:26great great all right thank you Abby and
52:29to everyone else listening we'll see you
52:31guys later all right guys thank you so
52:33much for listening please don't forget
52:34to like And subscribe and if you want
52:36your ceu credits go to our website at
52:38Blossom children.com talk to you later
52:40see you

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