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Episode 09: How to Effectively Implement Supervision Strategies | FREE ABA CEU — Transcript

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0:00all right everyone welcome back to the
0:02blossoming together podcast today we
0:04have a guest speaker her name is Jenny
0:06mko but before we get into her we're
0:08going to go over the objectives real
0:10quick so objective one by the end of the
0:12training the participants will
0:14demonstrate Proficiency in delivering
0:16clear constructive feedback to
0:18technicians tailored to individual
0:19learning style and preferences and the
0:22second objective is by the end of the
0:24training the supervisee or participant
0:26will be able to set realistic achievable
0:29goals for Tech technicians based on
0:31assessments of skill levels and areas
0:33for improvement fostering transparency
0:35and alignment with therapy objectives
0:38all right Jenny welcome thank you are
0:41you nervous of course always no but you
0:44don't have to be nervous it's me yeah
0:46you're right we know each other we got
0:48so Jenny how long have you been a bcba
0:52I've been a bcba for almost a year for
0:56the title like when I passed the exam
0:58but practicing since like like September
1:01so however many months that is that's a
1:03lot of months I I don't know how to do
1:04math like that we don't have our little
1:07handy dandy electronic EMR system to
1:09help us there but data system but how
1:12long so how long have you been in Tech
1:14though how long have you been in the
1:15field in the field I've been in the
1:16field officially I would say for four
1:19years like honestly like 2020 um Co fun
1:22things there that's when I like started
1:24in the field um but then I had a random
1:27like month and a half two months some
1:30time like in college a couple years
1:31before that so that was my introduction
1:33to the field wasn't planning on staying
1:36in it and then did a career change into
1:37the field after graduation yeah how what
1:40kind of introduced you to it for that
1:41like month and a half how did you find
1:43our field and what made you fall in love
1:44with it what made you leave and then
1:46come back actually that's like the so I
1:49was planning medical school that was my
1:51plan and then I had an internship that
1:53was like revealed to me that medical
1:55students or one their life is crazy and
1:58then two your life isn't crazy now well
2:00a fair
2:01point doctors just they do a lot of they
2:04see patients and they check in on them
2:05and then they refer them and I realized
2:07I wanted to be the one that they were
2:09referring to not the one doing the
2:10referring so that's why I decided to
2:12switch and I found the field cuz I went
2:15to a career fair not knowing what I
2:17wanted walking around and this one
2:19company they were the only company at
2:21the entire career fair that indicated
2:23they worked with kids so that's why I
2:25was like oh I know I want to work with
2:26kids let's check that out and that was
2:28it oh that's cool you just fell in love
2:29from there yeah I mean I was just kind
2:31of skeptical honestly at first I was
2:33like I don't know this is a summer job
2:34let's move on but then I realized I was
2:36like I'm really good at this and
2:38naturally it's what I do and once I
2:39started to understand the concepts of ab
2:42ABA I was like oh like I didn't know
2:44what I was doing those first few months
2:46I feel like that's so common like I
2:47don't know if it was for you like when I
2:49first started in the field it was the
2:50same I was like oh this is just a summer
2:51job or like something I'm going to
2:52introduce I was like this is just going
2:54to be something that gets me my I I need
2:56an hours for something I forget what it
2:58was like like some thing and I just like
3:01oh this is going to get me hours and
3:02then like once I was there it was just
3:04like life changing yeah I wanted to like
3:06work with kids but I was like I don't
3:07know what I want to do with it this is a
3:08good intro job and I was like
3:10oh a lot of people fall into it yeah
3:13it's pretty common I mean you're doing a
3:15great job cuz we've Nam dropped you on
3:17here like every other podcast I'm
3:20honored honestly name is Jenny meno you
3:22guys finally get to be a part of it yes
3:25all right so getting into it so you've
3:26been to bcba for a little bit now I mean
3:29you've talked about me and Kristen have
3:30talked about it too like what are some
3:31of the barriers that you faced yeah yeah
3:34I think there's been a lot of barriers
3:36um one of them definitely was splitting
3:38supervision um like one figuring out
3:42what text am I going to see when and
3:43then also figuring out how to balance my
3:45time when I'm in supervision so like
3:47when am I talking with the client and
3:48interacting with them in the tech and
3:50when am I doing some of those indirect
3:52tasks or unrestricted tasks um what do
3:54those look like like the tasks
3:56themselves um writing my session note so
3:59that I'm not bombarded later on um
4:02looking at data analysis checking in to
4:05make sure the texts are running the data
4:07or running the trials and collecting the
4:08data accurately doing data so but then
4:12also being actively involved in the
4:13supervision you're like wait and I
4:14struggle with that a lot it's very and I
4:17feel like I still haven't gotten like a
4:18good grasp on it cuz I still be like at
4:21home checking everyone's like data cuz
4:22like I didn't get a chance to I'll do it
4:24when I'm doing my notes I'm like oh I
4:25wanted to check in on this program's
4:27also doing her notes on Friday Friday
4:29night at like 9 o with my glass of wine
4:32and cookies so we want to be like you
4:34that's why we have you on oh my gosh no
4:36I don't have it perfect I honestly walk
4:38away from like every supervision I'm
4:39like I started so many things and didn't
4:41finish all of them like it's
4:44prioritizing to learning that like what
4:46am I going to prioritize in the moment
4:47and what's most important for my kid and
4:48my tech right now okay so do you find
4:51that there are any other barriers like
4:53during your supervisions that you're
4:54running into like as you became a bcba
4:56earlier so becoming a bcba and like
4:58switching from being a tech at the same
5:00company it was a little bit challenging
5:01with learning how to give feedback um
5:03cuz a lot of the text I knew more like
5:06personally yeah they were my peers so we
5:09had a lot of different conversations
5:10that weren't that bcba Tech conversation
5:13um so I think figuring out how to gear
5:15that feedback and knowing like what when
5:18to give it and when it's like well you
5:20know the kid more than I do right now
5:21cuz I'm just getting to this kid's case
5:23and you've been on them for a little bit
5:24of time um some other
5:28ones yeah I think that that was probably
5:31the biggest thing ultimately was like
5:33the feedback and balancing my
5:34supervisions yeah like balancing the
5:35time within it I think that yeah it's
5:37probably my biggest barrier still I
5:38agree it's really I mean I told you guys
5:41I struggle with it a lot but I think I'm
5:44getting better I think that's all we're
5:46going for right progress goals yeah
5:49progress so I know we talked about like
5:51one of the hardest things for you is
5:53like splitting that time do you have any
5:54systems in place or what do you do to
5:57help yourself with that yeah so I know
6:00that I get distracted so easily so I
6:04made documents that allow me to stay in
6:06like one spot as much as possible
6:08instead of having three documents open I
6:10just have the EMR system that we use and
6:12then my session notes document and
6:14that's where I collect my data and I'll
6:16do my data analysis in there where I
6:18keep track of targets that are getting
6:19done um things like that what does that
6:21look like cuz I I imagining like if I
6:24had to do that I would just I don't know
6:26what i' you your sticky notes yeah me
6:27and my sticky notes we would be
6:29everywhere so like how are you
6:31organizing that like document so it's a
6:33running document so I have everything
6:35saved and everything that is currently
6:37being worked on is at the top so my
6:39template for the session notes is at the
6:41top in one section why don't we pretend
6:43like we we have a client so like Johnny
6:46like you're in Johnny supervision and
6:47your technicians kisten okay so uh like
6:52yeah so do you want me to explain my
6:54like what would you like what would that
6:55note look like what would the note look
6:57like my document yeah so so on the left
7:00it would have the template of like the
7:01questions that I need to answer to fill
7:03my session note out okay and then in the
7:05middle would be the program goals for my
7:08kid so and it's summarized right like
7:11what the goals are from the assessment
7:13and then any Targets that have been
7:14mastered and then on the right side of
7:16it are like any of the tech goals that I
7:19have and that I haven't fully
7:21implemented yet but that's my plan is to
7:23be put in some tech I have some
7:25questions about that but before we do I
7:27want to uh name our first code word for
7:29your guys CEUs so code word number one
7:32is feedback o all right back to your
7:36document so you have the goals in there
7:39yes what kind of goals are you putting
7:41in there for the text yeah for the text
7:44so some of them are goals where it's
7:47like I need to start seeing this more
7:49it's based on expectations that I have
7:50for what I want the session to look like
7:53so
7:54if if I want like the technician to
7:57start recording more mans m then like
7:59I'll put in a goal for that or if I want
8:02them to just be generally like um doing
8:05more incidental targets like I'll put in
8:07that goal and then that way I'll be able
8:09to see like oh remember this is a goal
8:12so look for opportunities in the session
8:13to point out oh you could incidentally
8:15run this program right now things like
8:17that do you share that with them
8:19eventually I do want to again I'm still
8:21in the process of implementing um so I
8:23haven't gotten there yet but that's
8:25something where I also think like how do
8:27I share that in the midst of my super
8:29with the client cuz I also still want
8:31our attention on the client so I think
8:33that's the other thing I'm like can I
8:35have a meeting separate from from
8:37supervision with them or I'm wondering
8:38if you can like even send them like we
8:40use a slack communication but your like
8:42communication method you can like send
8:44them a message of like hey these are the
8:46goals that I'm working on like helping
8:48you progress with our learner but then I
8:50feel like that's something you might
8:51like discuss with them before you even
8:52tell them your goal right I want to work
8:54on a goal for all of us and then meet
8:56with them before or talk to them in
8:58supervision like is there anything you
9:00wanted to work on and then come up with
9:02the goal so it doesn't feel like you're
9:03bombarding them either yeah it's not
9:05just about like me but we're on a team
9:06together and we're going to grow
9:07together can you share like two or three
9:10examples of like what these goals would
9:11look like yeah um so one I definitely
9:15said was the um like the incidental
9:19targets that's one of the big ones for
9:21me I just am a big fan of natural
9:22environment teaching and I think people
9:24miss a lot of learning opportunities
9:26they don't realize they don't realize it
9:27so that's one um especially when you're
9:30in new tech too cuz you don't realize
9:32like I mean as a new tech you think
9:34everything that's in like the program
9:36book or a written program is what you
9:37need to be taking data on yeah
9:39especially even when I came here as a
9:40bcba I was like oh my gosh how am I
9:43going to like promote the technicians to
9:45find those opportunities without writing
9:46it out within the like EMR system as a
9:49specific goal like with specific targets
9:51yeah yeah um I know one thing that I've
9:54done with that like within the EMR
9:56system is learning to make the EMR
9:58system fit to be like what I need it to
10:02be yeah exactly um so that's one thing
10:05one strategy that I've done is
10:08using um like instead of prompts right
10:12like using the prompts as targets and so
10:14that way they can Mark when they'
10:15recorded this Target and I can see that
10:17making it easy for them too I've stolen
10:19this idea from Jenny for like five of my
10:21Learners now cuz I was like it's genius
10:24it's been working really well a lot of
10:25the techs are getting it and they're
10:26starting to see those learning
10:27opportunities and things like that so
10:29that's also the other thing going back
10:30to like goals for technicians um once I
10:33set a goal like I try to come up with an
10:35action plan and so one of like the
10:37action plans in that case could be like
10:39updating their programs to match a style
10:42of data collection that allows the tech
10:44to yeah um Implement that I like that
10:47and that's creative thanks I was going
10:49to say with like data collection do you
10:51ever find like I feel like I found a
10:53little bit with some of my technicians
10:55um like if they are struggling with the
10:56EMR system I even create them like paper
10:59data sheets like if if that technician
11:01will want to use them um do you have to
11:03like vary it for like specific texts or
11:06do you tend to use the same for each of
11:07your
11:08technicians um a little bit of both so
11:11right now like since this is kind of a
11:12new system that I'm implementing with my
11:14kids it's not one that any of our texts
11:16are used to a lot of them are like this
11:18is new I don't get it what do I need to
11:20do so right now I'm doing a lot of
11:23teaching and kind of just trying to get
11:25them accustomed to it but in the event
11:28that like they're like oh this isn't
11:29working for me yeah then I change it and
11:31I'll I'll figure out like what is it
11:33that's not like what's the barrier how
11:34about I do this and we kind of have a
11:36conversation back and forth like that I
11:38like that and you're being flexible with
11:40them I know a lot of BCB is going like
11:41this is the way I want to do it and if
11:43you don't do it the way I want like
11:45you're not good yeah and it makes it
11:48hard for the tech cuz they do want to
11:49succeed most most of the time I think
11:51everyone in this field like comes in
11:53wanting to do better yeah so like
11:55remembering that as well like sometimes
11:57they just don't know we have teach them
12:00yeah yeah another example of a goal
12:03though too um is adapt to using a high
12:06affect to meet the needs of the learner
12:08so this is one that um like thinking the
12:12technician was thinking about like my
12:14normal state right like this is how I
12:16normally present myself and what my
12:17natural personality is but like this kid
12:21really needs more um energy and like
12:25enthusiasm and things like that so that
12:28even vice versa yeah vice versa exactly
12:30so being able to recognize like what
12:32does a kid need in the moment and in
12:34general and being able to adapt so that
12:36was um that was one that that technician
12:39actually said that they wanted to work
12:40on that um so that one I was like okay
12:42cool and um then we switched case loads
12:47get to work on it's Ong goinging
12:48progress and I I feel like as a company
12:51like one thing we could do is like share
12:53the goals we had previously written with
12:55the other to the next like BCB that
12:57takes on that person I think that's
13:00great idea I feel like a lot of the
13:02stuff with our text like burnout is huge
13:04right with text and bcbas and sometimes
13:06I think that some of the burnout comes
13:08from just not feeling invested in I
13:10think passing goals on along like that
13:12is great idea to try and prevent burnout
13:14I think that's great any other goals or
13:16is that the's coming to mind right now
13:20oh one was identifying ways and
13:22opportunities to allow the client to
13:24self-regulate while simultaneously
13:26continuing to pair and appropriately
13:27challenge him so that's like thinking
13:29about again in the moment and
13:31recognizing those like differences and
13:33different anant that would would
13:35indicate or behaviors that would
13:36indicate like oh I need to respond in
13:38this way with this strategy um
13:40definitely following the behavior
13:41intervention plan still but being able
13:43to be more aware of those those
13:46indicators of when to switch Yeah okay
13:48nice that's really good one go ahead
13:51that's okay um I wanted to come back to
13:53your document that you're using so we
13:55talked a little bit about the technician
13:56goals do you think that the document I
13:58know You' recently started using it so
14:00it's kind of a work in progress but do
14:01you think it's helping you um like
14:03divide your time in the moment of your
14:05supervisions like to know like when
14:06you're going to be hands on with the
14:07learner when you're going to be modeling
14:09for the technician and when you're going
14:10to be like working on your data
14:12collection yeah I
14:15think ultimately like I have to decide
14:17when I'm doing it like the document
14:19doesn't necessarily like it's not an SD
14:21for me to like oh I'm going to do it now
14:22right but what it does allow me to do is
14:25it allows me to be saving my work
14:26regularly for your session note later
14:28right yeah so or like or even data
14:31analysis too it's all on one document so
14:32if I'm putting control s like to save it
14:35on that one document I know I didn't
14:36lose anything for any any stuff that
14:38I've been doing I'm even thinking like
14:40when you're right like you're coming up
14:41with the next Target you have them all
14:43in one place like oh look like
14:45previously Master targets are right
14:46there and like switching like Okay so
14:48we've done receptive identification now
14:50I want to do expressive identification
14:52like oh these are targets that they
14:54should know like have in their head like
14:56can we work on saying them out loud
14:58versus find them yeah and I know like
15:00sounds like so easy but like when you
15:02have to go through like your EMR system
15:03and look through like the targets it
15:06takes forever or honestly like when you
15:08are going from supervision to
15:09supervision and you have you know six to
15:12eight kids like remembering like oh my
15:13gosh which learner is working on this
15:15right now like you have it in your head
15:16you think that you're going to remember
15:18but when the day is going fast you're
15:19going to forget for sure that's when
15:21you're pulled in a million directions
15:22that day man yeah I definitely agree
15:25with that and I think that was the other
15:26thing like the EMR system I always think
15:29what is the slow step like what is
15:31preventing me from moving on fast and
15:33like being the most efficient um and a
15:36lot of times it's sitting there and
15:37waiting for the EMR system to load right
15:39so like we be down that day the day
15:42you're in supervision of course right
15:44yeah it's like well now I can't look at
15:45anything but having that written
15:46document outside of it definitely helps
15:48it's really helpful all right so I know
15:50you love collaboration and you love
15:53sharing like these notes and things
15:54you've seen like in supervisions to like
15:57the other team members like the SLP and
15:59the OT how do you feel like you do that
16:02cuz I know you don't always have time to
16:04like meet them later yeah so something
16:08that I did was I was thinking about like
16:10okay how can I communicate with all of
16:12them at the same time and not have
16:14something else that people have to be
16:16looking at right so I realized that our
16:20group chat for our kids like we already
16:23have channels in our in slack our
16:24messaging system and so that's when I
16:26use this nice little thing that they
16:28have I don't know what it's called
16:30canvas canvas yeah um but yeah so I was
16:33using canvas and it it just allowed me
16:36to put in like okay these are my
16:37thoughts and like what we're working on
16:38and this is what I want my technicians
16:40to know and then I set made a spot for
16:43speech and OT for them to be able to put
16:45in their own information so I could go
16:47back and look at that so that way I
16:48don't have to slack them and like ask
16:50them to respond to me every single time
16:52right but I can look at what they
16:53already have put in I feel like it's
16:55helpful too in ensuring that the other
16:57team members especially the clinici like
16:59their feedback and what they want done
17:01feels valued too and I feel like it
17:03feels the same for me CU we've started
17:05integrating what you did in there like
17:06with all of our Learners um and I feel
17:09like I it makes me feel like okay now I
17:10have like all my behavior plan stuff
17:12right in one place so that like the
17:14other clinicians know what to do but
17:16then one of my favorite things that came
17:18about that was like OT was able to like
17:20share like their sensory profiles with
17:23like us like so even like if someone's
17:25covering or someone doesn't know the kid
17:27they can just pull it up and have all
17:28that information in one place yeah yeah
17:30and so now when like a technician that's
17:32covering our kid gets added to the
17:34channel yeah like there's I don't want
17:35to say there's no excuse for them not to
17:37know but like at least they have the
17:38resour so much information yeah you get
17:41a lot of information and more
17:43information is better than no
17:44information having it readily there nice
17:47like that that's great yeah I want to
17:50provide our second code word before we
17:52kind of shift gears um our second code
17:54word is going to be time management so
17:57it's two words time management
17:59okay so we talked a little bit about
18:02like feedback being a barrier within
18:04some of your sessions I want to know
18:07like how you best provide your feedback
18:09to your technicians like what's the
18:10methods that you've found to be
18:11beneficial yeah so I feel like like
18:14everything still trying to figure it out
18:17a little bit um we're always learning
18:19right again progress always um but I
18:22think something that I've realized
18:25honestly with preparing for this podcast
18:27and thinking about this question too
18:28like I am a person that's a direct
18:31Communicator so but sometimes it comes
18:33off mean right were talking about this
18:36last night literally like I I was
18:38honestly I was like okay direct versus
18:40indirect like you also there's direct
18:43indirect and passive right so I think
18:46like direct one way to define it is like
18:48we're talking face to face another way
18:50to define it could be like I'm literally
18:53telling you exactly what I want or like
18:55what I'm thinking yeah it's like very
18:57clear there's no interpretation type
19:00like there's nothing left to the mind
19:02yeah yeah and then there's indirect
19:04which could just be like um I feel like
19:08I I've done this a few times where I'm
19:10like oh like something I'm doing right
19:13now is like I'm talking like this so and
19:17then I just leave it then hopefully I'm
19:18like trying to like see they catch that
19:20cue yeah but that sometimes is always
19:23you're giving an example of something to
19:24try versus telling them to try it like
19:26to do it like I would run it like this
19:28yeah like that's a good way to run it
19:30with those materials yeah and then
19:33there's another way that you could do
19:34indirect which is like via like some
19:37messaging system right or like written
19:39feedback afterwards there so that they
19:40can go back and review it um and I
19:44realized that I do not do like the the
19:48like oh sometimes I would try it like
19:49this like I don't do that yeah I'm a
19:51very I'm a I'm like that and I feel like
19:53I need to like so there's been so many
19:55times that I've been like oh now I can't
19:57like that's not working so now have to I
19:59hate I have to be like very direct and
20:02Jenny and I were talking about this cuz
20:03she worked with one of my clients before
20:05she became a bcba and I'm a very like
20:08indirect almost passive person with my
20:10feedback because I want to give the
20:12technician like a chance to like pick up
20:14on it whereas like Jenny's like no like
20:16I gave her passive feedback at one point
20:18and she's like you could just tell me
20:20that I did anything wrong like literally
20:22but then at the end it like depends on
20:24your attex and that's what we've been
20:26like talking about like we'll ask them
20:28what they like yeah and we talk a lot
20:30about like individualizing goals and
20:32stuff for our learners but I feel like
20:33sometimes we forget to individualize
20:35like the feedback to the technician too
20:37yeah and I think that's been a challenge
20:38is like learning how to adapt my own
20:40communication style to meet the needs of
20:42my technicians um that's definitely been
20:44hard um knowing that I'm a direct
20:47Communicator though too at the very
20:49least like currently my goal cuz
20:51thinking about myself I think about
20:53myself and goals currently my goal is to
20:55at least like find ways to do it and
20:58that aren't as abrasive right like so I
21:01can still tell them directly but leaving
21:04it kind of open-ended and like sometimes
21:06I look at their facial expressions and
21:07if I see that they look like a deer in
21:09headlights I'm like okay are you okay
21:11with that like what do you think some
21:12I'll be like also like what are your
21:13like do you think you can do that or
21:15like what are your thoughts what do you
21:16think yeah yeah and then from there like
21:19open that conversation up and have that
21:20communication so that I think that
21:23that's been a big thing with learning
21:25how to give some feedback I wanted to
21:27come back a little bit you talked about
21:28the other indirect method of
21:30communication for technicians I think
21:31that I've started implementing a lot
21:33recently this year because I found that
21:35a lot of my technicians they were so
21:38receptive to feedback in the moment like
21:40even if I gave very direct feedback on
21:41like programming or um just a learn like
21:44the learner style of learning um but
21:47then I would come back for supervision a
21:48week later and they be doing things a
21:50little bit differently and I would ask
21:51them I'm like oh do you remember we
21:52talked about last week like let's try it
21:54this way and they would genuinely have
21:56forgotten so now similar using like the
21:59canvas but like any way to communicate
22:01with your technicians I write notes for
22:03my text like based on the feedback that
22:04I provided them whether that be positive
22:06or negative um not necessarily negative
22:08but just somewhere to grow or to do
22:10things differently um writing it
22:12directly to them so they have it as an
22:14example and something to look back on
22:15and I found that it's been um they're
22:18applying things more efficiently yeah I
22:20think that's huge I think that makes me
22:21think too of this has been a phrase
22:24that's been tossed around at work a lot
22:26lately like okay give yourself Grace or
22:27like give them
22:29and I think that's thinking about people
22:31personalities and different habits that
22:33they've established like everybody comes
22:35into work with a different background of
22:38like what they've been doing outside of
22:40being at work and now at work they're
22:42asked to implement these new protocols
22:44that they may or may not understand like
22:47why we're doing it that way or like know
22:50the value of it right um and so then
22:53giving them that time to learn it and
22:55practice it and implement it and I've
22:58had a lot texts recently like they tell
23:00like I've given them feedback in a
23:01direct way right so then they they come
23:04back to me like the next time they're
23:05like I'm working on it I'm not there yet
23:07like I'm working on it I'm not there yet
23:08so at least it tells me they're aware of
23:10it and trying to like change that they
23:13heard you you know what else that tells
23:15me though about you is that you're a
23:16comfort space for them like they feel
23:18comfortable that they're not doing it
23:19perfectly and like they they know they
23:21can come to you yes they know you're
23:22going to guide them like in the right
23:23direction which is kind of great right
23:26cuz yeah I I feel like that's a good
23:28balance to me just constantly telling
23:30them exactly what I want to see
23:32frequently so yeah and that's funny
23:34because sometimes you'll be like I'm too
23:35like like I feel like I'm too harsh or
23:37like I said it too rude like love you
23:40Jenny and I think like kind of how this
23:43conversation came up like when we
23:45started talking about this podcast
23:46episode it was outside of like
23:47discussing the podcast but we were
23:49talking because I really liked a lot of
23:51the things that you were implementing
23:53whether that be like with your
23:54documentation organization or just the
23:56style with your technicians and I think
23:58that it came a lot from you being a tech
24:00so recently and like you wanted to
24:02change things like how you did them
24:05because of that how do you how do you
24:07think you kind of began all of this yeah
24:11so honestly a lot of what I do stems
24:14from my desire to to teach other people
24:17how to become teachers basically right
24:20like ABA is behavior-based right and it
24:24it is behavioral but at the same time
24:26we're also teaching and so like having
24:29that mindset and that mentality of every
24:33opportunity in our life being a learning
24:34opportunity and just being able to see
24:36that these skills could be targeted in
24:38these different moments um I felt like I
24:41saw that a lot as a technician but there
24:43were a lot of struggles like sometimes
24:45it was like I know I'm teaching my text
24:47all the time there was a time when I was
24:48working with um the one kid um that you
24:50were at my bcba for I asked he was like
24:53do you feel like I'm still providing
24:55good services to him because I feel like
24:56I wasn't hitting appropriate child
24:58accounts on some of the programs that
24:59were in there um and some of it was
25:01because I was following the kids lead a
25:03lot more and like using opportunities
25:07that popped up with his in the moment
25:08motivation that then meant I was missing
25:10other trials and like the challenge with
25:13like that was like that learner had
25:14lower motivation so it was hard to find
25:17like many many trials and he also had
25:19like severe behaviors right that also
25:21took priority over and that's kind of
25:23where I as the bcba had to provide that
25:25feedback of like yes we are here to for
25:28go acquisition but this learner's
25:30priority right now is behavior reduction
25:31so it's okay that we are prioritizing
25:33like pairing and ensuring that those
25:35behaviors are lower MH but I think that
25:37was hard for you because you came from
25:39other Learners where you were like doing
25:40like 20 trials a day or an hour for them
25:44yeah and that's where I felt like too
25:45like being able to mesh like the two
25:48together like ABA wants a lot of data
25:50and that um like I always say like AB
25:53trying to make us hard soft science a
25:54hard science right um so kind of making
25:57it like we see this
25:58observable data that you can't like
26:00question right so trying to merge the
26:03two of okay we're are following the the
26:05client's lead or the learner's lead but
26:07then also like if you're working on
26:09something that's not necessarily
26:11specified in the program like do I need
26:13to adapt the program to maybe be a
26:14little bit broader right um and allow
26:17you to record that like yep I've worked
26:18on this target well you do a lot of like
26:21generalization like generic targets
26:23right yeah ultimately that's what it is
26:25that's a good way to say what I do it
26:27it's like generic Target and then I just
26:29a lot of times I'll put in like random
26:32ideas based on the rooms that the
26:33learner likes um so to kind of prompt to
26:36my technicians to say oh this like I
26:38could use this for this target I see it
26:40describe like generic means yeah or like
26:42yeah describe an example um Target or
26:44goal that would be within one year
26:45sessions that would be generic for some
26:47of our people that aren't necessarily
26:48incidental or NE like we are Yeah so
26:52basically I would put in like generic um
26:56tacting actions and so that's the
26:58program name in the session and then
27:01within it um I am asking them to tell me
27:04like what Target did you did you target
27:07rightler like what what action did you
27:10target they have to write that in they
27:11don't have to write it in cuz that was a
27:13barrier yep I don't like having to like
27:16pull out my device and comment and write
27:18that cuz that's again's the slow step
27:20it's literally yeah it's the typing um
27:24so what I like is to then have a button
27:28that says some stuff that typically
27:30comes up based on the client's
27:31motivation so if this client is
27:33frequently in the gym I'm going to put
27:35swinging I'm going to put jumping I'm
27:36going to put throwing right like we're
27:38on the swing we're on the trampoline
27:40we're playing with a ball um and then
27:43we'll just stick with the gym for the
27:44example I'll put in other things for
27:46other rooms as well but then that way
27:48when they're in the gym and they're
27:49running that like okay tack the action
27:52for throwing they would pit plus or
27:54minus for that specific thing right for
27:57that specific thing that's the action
27:59sorry action yep exactly and so if like
28:01let's say it was um throwing so if if
28:04they if the kid answered independently
28:06it was throwing they would hit a like a
28:08plus for that and then they would do a
28:09check to indicate that that trial was
28:12like a plus an independent right and
28:13then let's say they moved on to Jumping
28:15so then the kid needed prompting or
28:18errored with with tacting jumping so
28:20then they would do a minus and an X and
28:22so this is specific to our EMR
28:26system and we had like a few be but like
28:28you went and like found a way to do it
28:30yeah but ultimately like this this
28:33specific one allowed me to see what
28:35Target was being run and did they get it
28:37right or wrong whereas the other way
28:40that we have done it in this EMR system
28:42it would allow you to like just it was
28:44run yes or no yeah basically it was like
28:46only one the only button that could
28:47allow it to be correct was independent
28:49and all the other ones were errors so
28:52and I think what we should like really
28:53take from this and like thinking
28:55something that I've taken a lot is like
28:57just because you have these set data
28:59collection systems especially across
29:00companies like don't forget that you
29:03don't lose your creativity like I feel
29:04like as a student bcba is prioritize
29:07their supervises becoming creative with
29:09programs and then as you become a bcba
29:10you get a little overwhelmed or like
29:12stuck in the set way and we kind of lose
29:14our creativity so just remember to get
29:16creative with your goal tracking one
29:18thing I really liked about it is like
29:20we've talked about before like using
29:21your client's interest yeah within your
29:24programming and like it sounds like
29:26you've been doing that and you've been
29:27like showing technicians how to do that
29:29like if they love the gym like there are
29:31a million things we could do in the gym
29:33million things and like and you're
29:34putting it out there for them so it's a
29:36little bit easier for them to understand
29:38but hopefully over time they start
29:39seeing they can do that everywhere yeah
29:41right so and that's another thing too
29:42like even this week I had a technician
29:44and she's honestly new to our our
29:46company and so she's kind of new to
29:48being a technician but she saw that for
29:50a fine motor skill it I had like turning
29:53a key so we're working on like twisting
29:55the wrist and she saw that in the
29:57kitchen the kid was working on that same
29:59skill with like turning the oven on and
30:02so she asked she was like can I record a
30:05data point for turning the key even
30:07though it was the oven and I said
30:09absolutely because at that point we're
30:11looking at like what is the skill we're
30:13targeting versus what are the materials
30:15we're using you know that's great so I
30:19know like we were just talking about
30:20like feedback so we talk about sometimes
30:22we're like a little bit like passive or
30:24indirect but like do you feel like there
30:26situations like if you have like a
30:29technician they like love the indirect
30:31and they do well with it but are there
30:33situations like you're like I can't do
30:34that like I need to like stop this I
30:37have to be direct right now yeah
30:38behaviors right like if there's self-
30:41inous Behavior or if the technician is
30:43in a spot where they're going to get
30:45injured um like maybe bit or something
30:47like that like I am immediately stepping
30:49in and telling them like you need to
30:51move or you need to block that right
30:53like that's not a moment where we can be
30:56like like yeah like slow to speak right
30:59cuz safety is and you need to be direct
31:01you need them to do exactly what you're
31:03saying at that moment yep and I needed
31:05to be reactive like it has to happen now
31:07right rather than like waiting be like
31:08okay I'm going to write about this later
31:10for us to go over it's not the time no
31:12are there any other situations you
31:14might yes so I've also learned that I
31:17ask a lot of questions sometimes so um
31:22if the I'll tell if it's like the first
31:26time they're learning that skill right
31:29and so um once they I've told them that
31:32and like we come back to it later on
31:34it's another supervision later in the
31:35week something like that um then I'll
31:37switch a little bit it's still pretty
31:39direct but I'll start asking them
31:41questions so the technician might ask me
31:43the same question again and I'll say
31:45well do you remember like what we had
31:46said last time and then I'll go from
31:48there if they don't like that's okay
31:49I'll say it again but I'm asking you to
31:52kind of stop and think and build that
31:54like thought process rather than always
31:56depending on me giving you the you're
31:58kind of building their independence
31:59there right yeah I'm fading myself back
32:01yeah I like that little fade plan yeah
32:04so when you're providing that feedback
32:06is there a way that like especially
32:08because you are so direct is there a way
32:10that you're ensuring that they are like
32:12checking I guess are you checking in on
32:13it in the next supervision like how are
32:15you ensuring that it's clear for that
32:17specific technician
32:19ooh honestly so checking in sometimes I
32:23do sometimes I don't but it's a hit or
32:24miss depending on like you know all the
32:27things in the moment that are going on
32:29but I haven't really been super
32:31intentional about making sure to check
32:33in but I feel like that could be
32:34something I'm like oh yeah on my like
32:38document I'm like oh I could add this in
32:39like checking on that you know don't add
32:41too much stuff for yourself either
32:43that's true too we forget like things
32:45we've said so I feel like oh my gosh
32:47like having like it all noted in there
32:49is like a good yeah leave a paper trail
32:51for your can go back and be like we did
32:53talk about that well sometimes like if I
32:55have the same technician on two kids
32:58I'll mix up like who did I tell it to in
33:01What scenario cuz what worked for one
33:03learner doesn't work for like the other
33:05learner so remembering that as well yeah
33:08I think that's actually somewhere where
33:09I struggle is like ensuring like I am
33:12very I am indirect and I have like my
33:14passive ways but I also like have very
33:17specific ways that I like things done
33:19and like that's something I'm working on
33:20I'm trying to be more flexible but if I
33:22give like feedback to one technician
33:24like that works in the mornings with the
33:25learner and then I'm like but wait how
33:27can I ensure that my afternoon
33:29technician they don't receive feedback
33:30the same way how am I going to make sure
33:31that they are both applying like my
33:33feedback effectively yeah and accurately
33:36but then I feel like you could do what
33:37Jenny said and just like post about it
33:39in like the group yeah the channel yeah
33:41the channel or like that group like
33:43documentation that you have wherever you
33:44are at I think that's a good way to do
33:46it I have to I mean that might so they
33:48can read it like did you get a chance to
33:50like see like that note I put in I know
33:53some centers they have like little notes
33:55that like technicians have to read
33:56before something else that I've been
33:58doing like alongside that with like
34:00having double technicians um just to
34:02ensure feedback is being like applied um
34:04is if I do like a big chunk of
34:06supervision in the morning where I
34:07changed a lot like made a lot of
34:08modifications I'm finding that this week
34:10when I'm taking on new Learners um is
34:13that I'll schedule even just like a 15
34:14or 20 minute supervision with the
34:16afternoon Tech just to be like hey these
34:18are the things that I've like modified
34:19for today's session like can you apply
34:22these or implement this that's a really
34:24good idea do a checkin yeah cuz like the
34:27other technician they were like I don't
34:28want to wait till Friday to have to like
34:30make these modifications and then or
34:31know how to run the program yeah I like
34:35that is something I'm doing yeah well I
34:37know we kind of jumped into this a
34:39little bit when we were talking about
34:40your a little ongoing note for when you
34:42like split your time we want to talk
34:44about like the importance of like our
34:46session notes so like we have to like
34:49session notes are very important
34:50insurance is reading them like anyone
34:54may like if someone like say I was
34:55really sick you might need to read like
34:57my session
34:58what I've been so it's important to the
35:01that into a
35:03session so client information so their
35:06name age gender a lot of people have
35:08like templates that are already made
35:10like we're lucky we have templates but
35:12if you I have so you have to write all
35:14this in by yourself so having that any
35:17session details like the date and like
35:19how long you were there and then also
35:21like any behavioral observations that
35:23like this is when you go into like the
35:25writing portion right you have to have
35:26like the behavioral observations things
35:28you've noticed throughout the day so
35:30like any ABC data what behaviors
35:32occurred how many times they occurred
35:33what modification strategies and we'll
35:35kind of get into another thing that's
35:36really important is the intervention
35:38implementation so what strategies were
35:40used for those behaviors and for like
35:43the acquisition targets did you use DT
35:45did you use
35:46NE sometimes these are in like the
35:48templates too if you're lucky but
35:52not that's another thing sometimes I
35:54thought about this like do I want to
35:56write my session note logically of like
35:58this happened then this happened then
35:59this happened or do I want to like group
36:01it of like I gave this feedback and we
36:02talked about this strategy and like like
36:05what do you guys do and prefer I do it
36:07in and I kind of like brought this from
36:09my previous Center I do it in like big
36:11paragraph format kind of like you're
36:12saying the second way is just like this
36:14is what we worked on I provided this
36:16feedback this was the data CU we also
36:18need to have the data collection in
36:19there and I think this is something
36:20that's often forgotten is like okay we
36:22ran tacting actions they score yeah
36:26there were three trials obser they um
36:29they independently responded to two out
36:30of three trials observed and then I'll
36:32talk about like the feedback that I
36:33provided and then I'll go on to like the
36:35next thing so like okay and then we were
36:37in a different classroom I I go
36:40chronological cuz that's like how I like
36:42I have my little notes they're not as
36:44good as yours probably like if I started
36:46doing that I could do it the other way
36:47but I'll be like well we started off in
36:49the gym and then I like think I'm like
36:51in the gym we did XYZ and then we ran
36:54XYZ but something I actually like forget
36:56a lot is like the behavior cuz like I
36:58had no place to jot it down I feel like
37:01it like slips it slips and then I'm like
37:04sometimes I
37:05forget and then I think another thing
37:07forgotten like with the data going along
37:08with that is like the progress towards
37:10either those Behavior reduction goals or
37:12the um skill acquisition goals like in
37:15there we should be noting like client is
37:17progressing towards this goal or client
37:19is kind of stuck on this target scoring
37:21zero and that's where it's hard cuz like
37:23we're like we only have we're trying to
37:25split our time yeah in supervision like
37:28you said like we're trying to spit our
37:29time in supervision being direct but
37:31like we also need to figure this stuff
37:33out that's where like gets like hard
37:35well and I'm also doing my supervision
37:37notes on Friday night sometimes
37:39shouldn't be doing them but sometimes
37:40for Tuesday and I'm like oh my gosh wait
37:43I forget so I'll have to go back to the
37:44technician's data and like look at like
37:46what they ran during that time that I
37:48was there and it's really hard to like
37:50make sure everything is there so that's
37:51why like I like this idea of like having
37:54like I mean I'm very like disorganized
37:56everyone knows this about me but like I
37:58essentially I'm thinking of like you're
37:59thinking of it as like a like organized
38:02like thing but I'm thinking of it like a
38:04big brain dump right and I just put
38:06everything that needs to be like if I
38:07know what needs to be there I can just
38:08dump it all there yeah yeah and like I
38:11feel like that's the the nice thing
38:12about the document too it's like you
38:14don't have to save it being the done
38:16completed progress because it's just a
38:18document that's for you to go back to
38:19right so it could just be in that moment
38:22like like you said like a brain dump of
38:23a bunch of bullet points of things that
38:24you need to make sure you hit on when
38:25you do formally go back write it up so
38:28like how do you so when you're looking
38:30at your like document how are you
38:32turning it into a more formal like a
38:34more formal note more formal not so a
38:36lot of times what I do honestly it's so
38:38simple but it just it works for me like
38:40I honestly will just hit enter and like
38:42leave a couple spaces in between or a
38:44couple lines in between and then I'll
38:46just start typing based on the um
38:49information that I had just put below it
38:51and like had brain dumped on does that
38:53make sense like what I'm saying a little
38:55bit I think that makes sense so you're
38:56taking the brain dump and you're
38:57essentially like look like you already
38:59kind of have your like paragraph started
39:02and you're taking that brain up and
39:03entering it into your like paragraph
39:05yeah exactly and then I can like that's
39:07mine my like documentation so I can kind
39:10of copy that and then paste it into the
39:12formal like documentation that gets
39:14saved in our EMR system okay so let me
39:16like say it out loud so you might have
39:18so like let me go back to the things I
39:20said you need to put in your note so
39:22you'll have like behavioral observations
39:24so you would probably have like your
39:26brain up and under like a template you
39:28already have like some behavioral
39:29observations I saw today or bcba saw
39:32today are and leav some space and then
39:34you'd go back to your brain dump and add
39:36it in there yep yeah something super
39:38simple like that okay I like then I feel
39:41like it saves you time on Friday night
39:42too yeah no see this is why this topic
39:45came up for an episode because I was
39:47working with Jenny and she seemed much
39:49more organized than me like I am
39:51organized but I still like I just forget
39:54things and I don't keep everything like
39:55where I should so I really need to I
39:58need to start implementing some of these
39:59things thinking about that that's
40:01something too like staying organized
40:02thinking to yourself like what are my
40:04barriers like personally so like same
40:07thing if I have to open a bunch of
40:08documents on my laptop right like then
40:10I'm going to get distracted and I'm
40:11going to like lose something yeah and
40:13I'm less likely to do what I needed to
40:15do which is why I have that one document
40:17but also if I have to physically get up
40:19and like go someplace to get like
40:22something to remind me of what I needed
40:24to do like you're over it yeah I'm over
40:26it like your sticky notes i' be like oh
40:27I know I have a sticky note but it's
40:29like so far away but I forgot at work
40:31when I was at home I'm at home writing
40:33my note exactly so like that would be
40:36like a barrier for me so I started
40:37putting like to-do lists um of things
40:39that I need to do on my slack cuz that's
40:42always on my phone and if I don't have
40:44my phone on me cuz sometimes I lose it
40:46it's on my laptop so I feel like if
40:47someone wasn't like here and they didn't
40:49have SL they could just email it to
40:50yourself yeah like do something digital
40:52like virtual that obviously you have to
40:54be aware right like Hippa compliance and
40:56make that you're following Hippa but
40:59like that's that's like make it as
41:00easily accessible as possible nice yeah
41:04like I before I like learned about your
41:06like little data collection I would just
41:07slack myself like if I were in a
41:09supervision I would just like take
41:10bullet notes in my slack and then like
41:12send it to myself and then go back later
41:13but then I'd have like 13 from the week
41:15and I'm like oh my gosh my slack is
41:16overloaded and I can't find what I'm
41:17looking for I have another question just
41:20jumping jumping onto the next can you
41:22walk me through the process of like how
41:24you review and analyze like your
41:26behavior data while you're in session I
41:29feel it's so easy when you're like on
41:31your own you're upstairs or you're at
41:32home analyzing all the stuff but you're
41:34trying to be efficient with your time
41:36and you're trying to provide feedback to
41:37the technician right there and then so
41:40how are you doing that so sometimes I'll
41:42start and I'll ask them like okay like
41:44what's going on this week how our
41:45programs going like any that you need
41:47help with like any that he's been doing
41:49really well with so that kind of points
41:50me in the direction for like what this
41:52technician's been working on and what I
41:54want to review based on that um and then
41:57and I go in and I know a lot of people
41:59like to look at the DAT like the the
42:01graph data which is great because then I
42:04can see it but a linear way yeah in a
42:06linear way so I can say like generally
42:08speaking but then because my I'm doing
42:10General targets like I want that
42:12specific information as well so I've
42:14really been utilizing the table function
42:17that our EMR system has so I'll look at
42:19the table and I'll go through and
42:21specific percentages um yeah I was
42:23confused by so like okay so like our
42:26graph will tell us for like all of
42:28tacting actions like how is he doing in
42:30general big graph for the whole goal not
42:34just the specific Target exactly and so
42:36the specific targets that data is shown
42:38to me in the table so I'll look and I'll
42:40say like I'll see okay they ran jumping
42:41three times that day and they were all
42:44like pluses all 100% but then like the
42:46next day it was or I guess the previous
42:49day right it was like they ran it two
42:51times and one of them was minus so I'm
42:54like really you're looking deeper in
42:56than just the gra
42:57essentially the the first glance GL y
43:00exactly I kind of have a followup
43:01question with that and it's a little off
43:02topic but like when you're looking and
43:05you see that a trial has been only ran
43:07like say you're looking at like three
43:09targets and each of those three targets
43:10only have two or three data points what
43:12are you doing to like kind of ensure
43:15that there is able to be progress on
43:16those targets with the technicians like
43:18going into your feedback yeah so this is
43:20one of those moments where I end up
43:21getting really flexible so I'll ask them
43:24like okay why hasn't this been run like
43:25what's the barrier like like what's
43:27going on and sometimes their responses
43:30like oh there's just not a lot of
43:31opportunities cuz they're not super
43:33motivated by it so I also have another
43:36button that says other for them to click
43:38on and so if I see that they've been
43:39hitting other a lot I'm I'll ask like
43:41what are you targeting on other and so
43:44then they'll tell me a specific Target
43:46and I'll say okay like you have a lot of
43:48a lot of opportunities to practice that
43:50over like this right like so to practice
43:53car over ball and they're like yeah
43:54they're so much more motivated for a car
43:57say okay like I'm going to I'm going to
43:58take ball out as a specific Target and
44:00I'm going to put car in as a specific
44:02Target so that way now I'm still
44:04increasing how many targets we're
44:06getting through but it's specific to the
44:08learner's motivation and opportunities
44:09available kind of with that for both of
44:11you I guess cuz you guys both grew up in
44:13an NE setting with your data and I came
44:15from DT where I'm like Mass trials I
44:17need like 10 to 20 trials for a Target
44:20what do you guys like expect in your
44:22sessions of like expected trial count
44:25for like say you're doing tacting
44:26actions or tting um items in general I
44:29would like I feel like I've been taught
44:31like the S like if you're like a half
44:33day session like you have to hit at
44:35least five and if you're not hitting
44:37five consistently that's something you
44:38bring up to your bcba so like I tell my
44:40technicians like if you have any like
44:42trouble come to me and then we'll
44:43probably like brainstorm from there I
44:46just like to have five so that like my
44:48percentage comes up a little better if
44:51that make sense yeah I definitely agree
44:53like five is an ideal one and then
44:57like going from there if if they're not
45:00hitting it like there's so many
45:01questions as to why right like where
45:02they sometimes we put like sometimes the
45:04target like it's hard thinking about the
45:06targets and sometimes I'll put in
45:07targets that I didn't think about like
45:09too much you know I'll be like I need to
45:11come up with 10 and I put in like take
45:13shoes off and puts on shelf as like a
45:14twostep and they only have two
45:16opportunities yeah like they're only
45:17taking their shoes off twice that
45:18session like my bad that was on me yeah
45:22and that's something I might do like a
45:23generic Target then right I think that's
45:25something I need to become a little bit
45:27more flexible I think I'm a little bit
45:28rigid with my data like I'm kind of
45:30strict where I'll like put a minimum
45:31trial count yeah if that makes sense
45:34yeah I actually like so I have like a
45:38love hate relationship with that because
45:40because when when you put in the minimum
45:42one at least for R do it doesn't get
45:44graft at all and so then I'm like
45:47depends on where you're at yeah I missed
45:48this yeah like now it looks like the
45:50tech did absolutely nothing and you've
45:52gone months without practicing that
45:53skill at all when really it's only been
45:55practiced like two times a day right
45:58which is different than not at all right
46:00so I mean I would hope that someone's
46:03Chris's checking her data a little more
46:05then I check it pretty often don't worry
46:07I'm looking I'm seeing you're noticing
46:09when like the Tech's not run not like
46:11like it like if you're stuck like you
46:13don't have like a good system and that's
46:15what you've had it set as and you don't
46:16have time to check the data in session
46:19and you don't have time to check the
46:20data after like you get if we're not
46:23maximizing our time and we're losing
46:24those opportunities cuz we're not the
46:27one thing that falls under like the cuz
46:28you're like I saw them do it I saw them
46:30run that Target so you're like that's
46:32fine yeah fine and I think and this is
46:35something that I've been doing but I
46:37don't think it would work for Jenny so
46:38it's to remember like go ahead and
46:40individualize your organization methods
46:42cuz she doesn't like multiple documents
46:43but I'm okay with having like I have 50
46:45tabs open on my computer at all times so
46:48I'll have my Excel document for that
46:49learner and I have each of their domains
46:52noted with the goals that I'm working on
46:53and then similar to how you do in your
46:55little session note have what is the
46:57current Target what targets have been
46:59mastered and then I have a section for
47:00like my individual notes for that day so
47:03that's kind of how I've been ensuring
47:05that I'm double-checking each Target or
47:07each um goal like when I'm doing my data
47:09analysis in the session that this like
47:11might be a good time where you take like
47:13the ioa yeah data using that you know
47:16like like I'm going to take data with
47:18you and that way like I feel like when I
47:20do that I'm better equipped and I can
47:22catch those like things that fall under
47:24the cracks a little easier cuz I'm
47:26looking at like
47:27what they're looking at on their tablet
47:28I know every Target that's supposed to
47:30be there then I'm taking the data and
47:32then after when I'm scoring it I go back
47:33and like well how many days has it been
47:35or like how long has this been going on
47:37yeah yeah I actually I like that so I
47:40almost feel like you have the
47:43information but you organized it
47:44differently in like in your own document
47:47you know like I um I think that just
47:49kind of goes to show that like everybody
47:51has to think about how do I think and
47:54how is it going to work best for me like
47:56looking I feel like this is the hardest
47:58thing you learn in practicum to is like
48:01I how do you want me to like report this
48:03data back to you cuz we did a lot of
48:05like our supervisor had us do a lot of
48:06like data analysis oh yeah you guys the
48:08same super we did we had the same
48:10practicum super so we did a lot and just
48:12like tell like I think I got really used
48:14to like how he wanted it reported I was
48:17just going to say that I think that is a
48:18barrier as a student because as a
48:20student you don't realize like what it's
48:22going to be like as a bcba it's just
48:23like a big growth opportunity when you
48:25become one and like so you take their
48:28methods with you and then you're like
48:30wait this isn't working for me a lot of
48:31things are falling between the cracks
48:33and I think that's something that you've
48:34done really well is identify like what
48:37methods are you're going to use yeah I
48:39agree yeah ultimately too I was I I like
48:43did a review based on my experience from
48:45the as a transition from being a
48:47practicum student to being a bcba okay
48:49and I think I wish I had more time or
48:53like I had been told like this is what I
48:55do but I need you to sit down and like
48:58come up with your own method before I
49:00had stepped into the role as a bcba cuz
49:02I felt like I was flying by the seat of
49:03my pants at first but it's like that
49:05confidence piece I feel like like you're
49:08a very confident person and like I know
49:10you as a person but like when you're
49:12having to give feedback to people that
49:14were your peers like a day ago yeah I
49:16mean like our switch was literally by a
49:19day like one day I was Tech like a day
49:21before I was teching and the next day I
49:22was a full-time bcba yeah which that's
49:25hard too like thinking about like okay
49:27when do I need to do my indirect time
49:29where I'm sitting on my laptop and doing
49:30data anal more time for that when you
49:32were a student I I did and then also
49:35like being with like the technician and
49:38the client in supervision like I'm I
49:40literally was just the tech you know
49:42like I'm used to being that oneon-one
49:44person so now learning how to step back
49:46and actually let the technician like be
49:48the one-on-one remembering that they're
49:51I like for me what was really hard is
49:52like remembering they're the person that
49:54the client should be really like it's
49:55cool if they're excited to see me I like
49:58that's great that's like a plus but I
49:59don't want to take away from that yeah
50:01kind of going with that um I have
50:03another question with feedback did you
50:05find especially like when you jumped
50:07into the role as bcba coming from the
50:08technician either of you where like you
50:11found it that sometimes Tex might have
50:12been resistant to your feedback or like
50:14how you handled when Tex might have been
50:16a little bit more
50:17resistant yeah not in a bad way but
50:21definitely like hard it's hard cuz
50:23they've like I'm coming on new to this
50:24kid's case they've had this kid for mon
50:26now they know them so sometimes like my
50:29ideas would be pushed back on and which
50:32is fine so then I would I would ask
50:33challenge like challenge me challenge
50:36accepted thank you um no but asking like
50:39okay like let's take a step back then
50:40like what what's your I don't want say
50:42what's your problem with that but like
50:43what what's the problem with what I
50:45suggested like what's the bar what's
50:46holding you back or have you tried this
50:47before is something like simple as that
50:50yeah or like yeah cuz sometimes they
50:51have they've done something similar and
50:53but like I don't know that cuz I'm new
50:55you just came like you maybe had like
50:57a little bit of time to get to know this
50:59kid I mean you took on a lot of my kids
51:01you know you took like I was pregnant I
51:03was leaving so like and my like I got my
51:06delivery date got pushed up real fast so
51:08like we were supposed to have like a
51:09month right and then we ended up having
51:12it was like a week and a half a week and
51:13a half so I had to give you like
51:15everything I knew about this like all
51:17how many kids like six six of my kids I
51:20had to give you all information so some
51:22things like got left out especially if
51:24there were something maybe things I
51:25tried when kid just start
51:27you know yeah and so like asking them to
51:30share that information when they gave me
51:32push back and then kind of saying like
51:34Okay some there's two different ways
51:35that I'll respond I'll either if I have
51:37an idea myself I'll be like oh what
51:39about this like let's adapt it this way
51:41like can you implement that because
51:42we're overcoming this right and then
51:45other times I'm like well I don't know
51:47what to tell you after that information
51:48so I'll ask them like well what do you
51:51think we should do cuz we know that what
51:52we're doing right now isn't working so
51:54what what are your ideas and then I'll
51:56give them feedback off of that or share
51:58barriers and sometimes I just like can
52:00you can we just try like I can try it
52:02and then if it doesn't work that's fine
52:04yeah like being like if it doesn't work
52:06I can take responsibility for that and I
52:08think another thing to like kind of
52:09think about with the feedback in the
52:11moment too is like sometimes like we are
52:15bcbas and we have a lot of knowledge but
52:16we're not always going to have the
52:17answers so if it's not an urgent matter
52:19like feeling confident and being like
52:21you know what I we need to get creative
52:23with this I need to think about it let
52:24me come back next supervision and like
52:26come come with more ideas you know yeah
52:28honestly too when I've said something
52:30like that sometimes technicians will
52:32come up to me and be like okay so I was
52:33thinking about this last and that's the
52:35best that's us too cuz you'll be like on
52:38a drive home oh I finally thought I
52:40thought about it yeah exactly yeah
52:42that's idea came yeah um oh man there
52:45was something else that I wanted to say
52:46about it
52:48um about about feedback and like um when
52:53when you kind of get push back and like
52:54opening the conversation but like let's
52:57let's brain jock brain
52:59jock what talking what we just talking
53:02about okay so another thing though like
53:05sometimes um when I open up the
53:07conversation in those situations like
53:08I've had technicians come up to me later
53:10and they'll say like oh I had this idea
53:12is it's something that we can do and
53:14like taking those opportunities and this
53:16might be why technicians are okay with
53:18me giving them direct feedback cuz when
53:20they tell me things like that I'll be
53:22like that's a good idea try yeah so as
53:25much as I'm giving him direct Fe back of
53:26like we're going to do this differently
53:28or let's do this like things like that
53:29like I'm also giving them that positive
53:31feedback as well of like that was great
53:33let's keep doing that I love that like
53:35and taking their ideas and valuing them
53:38and I think that's something that
53:39sometimes as bcbas we like forget to do
53:41or like you guys are saying like these
53:43kids or these techs a lot of times know
53:44the kids better than we do but I think
53:46sometimes we as bcbas we get on a power
53:49trip and we're like no we know it but
53:50like honoring your technicians and
53:52knowing like their value they have so
53:54much
53:55value confidence thing too you're like I
53:58need to I need to know what I'm doing so
54:01that's why like my plan is what we're
54:03going to do not theirs yeah some of it's
54:05like being humble like being confident
54:06and humble at the same time hard it's so
54:09hard right it's easier to be confident
54:10and cocky let's be honest I think
54:12remembering like admitting you're wrong
54:14doesn't like make you a lesser bcba yeah
54:17that was something like the one of the
54:19kids that I took over from you like he
54:22had come so far from when he had started
54:24like even before you had him as a bcba
54:27and so I was really nervous taking him
54:28over cuz I'm like what if he regresses
54:30it's going to be my fault um but that
54:33was like very quickly I kind of had to
54:35learn with like sometimes my ideas don't
54:37work as well because I told the tech to
54:39do something and immediately it made the
54:40behavior worse and I was like okay stop
54:42that wasn't good we're going to do
54:43something different but that's like the
54:46best way to do it Jenny yeah trial trial
54:49and error which this was what I was
54:51going to say sometimes I have to ask the
54:54technician like I'll say like okay I
54:56know you've got this but can you just
54:57like step out like for a second I want
54:59to try a few things because sometimes
55:02you only know what you're truly
55:04experiencing and like feeling out right
55:06and so you kind of have to feel it for
55:08yourself and see how is the client
55:10responding yeah and I think that's like
55:13I love covering um technician sessions
55:15like if it texts out and I'm like H I'll
55:17cover that learner CU it gives me that
55:19like time to try and error and try new
55:21things with them yeah for sure all right
55:24moving on a little can you kind of give
55:25us some examp examples of how you've
55:27like tailored your feedback to an
55:30individual like technician's learning
55:32style do that make
55:34sense um can you rephrase oh yes so can
55:38you provide examples of strategies you
55:40have used to tailor your feedback to
55:42like a specific technician yes okay so
55:46the first thing that I did and I
55:48actually took this from you as my
55:49unofficial
55:51Mentor um I sent out a survey to my
55:54technicians okay the challenging thing
55:55with this is getting them to actually
55:58complete and I'd be like I can see you
56:00didn't do it yes literally um also I'm
56:04like it's going to help me help you so
56:05just do it for me right um but that's
56:08what I'll do I'll send out a survey and
56:09actually the survey is a little bit I
56:11don't blame them for not wanting to do
56:13it honestly cuz it's a little bit more
56:14expensive because I don't want to just
56:16know make it easier Jenny I know I'm I'm
56:19holding on for a little um I want to
56:21know not only like how do you receive
56:23feedback best but I also want to know
56:25like I want what are your goals not just
56:28as a technician but as a professional
56:30and like as a personal person yeah right
56:33and this is where like sometimes I feel
56:35like yes I do need to ask them what
56:36goals do you guys want to work on but
56:38sometimes I I've got some information
56:40already see and I like to do this too
56:42because it you can individualize your
56:44feedback to what they value and like to
56:46ensure that they are going to be
56:47receptive to it like do you want to grow
56:49up and be a bcba do you want to grow up
56:51and be like an SLP or like are you like
56:54like happy like this is your like this
56:56is where you want to be or do you want
56:58to do something like do you want to be
56:59an
57:00accountant something totally different
57:02like but still like knowing what's
57:04important to them like you learn a lot
57:06about your like technicians this way
57:08like say like you have someone that
57:10wants to be a lawyer but not just a
57:12regular lawyer like a family lawyer
57:13right family lawyer so you know she
57:15values like people and like the family
57:18component and like the um individual
57:21person's component you and I can see
57:23that within her cuz I see her like
57:24talking about like oh someone so did
57:26this and this made her dad like so proud
57:28you know yeah I think that's like super
57:31helpful too because then when you're
57:32giving feedback like right an important
57:35part about feedback is not just telling
57:37people like what to do but telling them
57:39the why behind it and kind of explaining
57:41and justifying like the importance and
57:43value of it and I think knowing what
57:45they value personally you can get them
57:47to buy into something if you like
57:50communicate what that goal is to them
57:52yeah I agree nice I want to stop really
57:55quick and do our third code word is
57:58goals g o a l s goals that's a nice
58:01spelling
58:03thanks I'm
58:05literate is there anything else you feel
58:08like you wanted to touch on not I don't
58:10think so I think we covered it all yeah
58:12what about you cursing anything I don't
58:13think so I think you hit it all thank
58:15you for joining us thank you for coming
58:17on Jenny MCO and that's a wrap we'll see
58:20you guys next time bye
58:23bye all right guys thank you so much for
58:26for listening please don't forget to
58:27like And subscribe and if you want your
58:29ceu credits go to our website at Blossom
58:31children.com talk to you later see you

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