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Episode 06: Using the VB-MAPP in a Naturalistic Environment | FREE ABA CEU — Transcript

by Blossoming Together · 9,123 words · 1,198 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00hello and welcome back to the blossoming
0:01together podcast today we have Emily be
0:04here with us she's a lead at the Novi
0:06location we'll we'll be talking about
0:09assessments and goal writing so before
0:11we get into it Emily B you're both of
0:13our leads we want know we want to know
0:17what you hate about us and what you love
0:19about us we don't hate anything about
0:20you first off you're both wonderful I'm
0:22going to say what I like about you guys
0:24like I well you both were on maternity
0:26leave which I know everybody knows you
0:27guys just had babies and I was so ready
0:29for you guys to come back from maternity
0:31leave because you just bring such good
0:33energy to our meetings and into the big
0:36office and I really miss the energy cry
0:39oh it's true I told you that all the
0:40time um but neither you ever remember to
0:43punch in or out and I'm constantly every
0:45single day I'm getting oh can you fix my
0:47time punches I put a reminder on my
0:49laptop and it's still not it's not
0:51working You' both on that and it's not a
0:53big shift from full-time to part- time
0:55to like remember I suck at it I don't
0:57think I'll we'll get better we'll for
1:00you I'll believe that when I see this
1:03all right so before we get into it
1:05everyone remember to keep an eye out for
1:07the code words throughout the episode
1:09and we're going to go right into the
1:10objectives so objective one participants
1:13will learn how to conduct skill-based
1:15Assessments in natural
1:17environments and objective two
1:19participants will explore strategies for
1:21individualizing goals uh beyond the
1:23standard criteria provided in assessment
1:25tools cool so before I want to before we
1:29get into it into it but again I want to
1:31go over what an assessment is so an
1:33assessment is a systematic procedure
1:35used to for us to gather information
1:38about the skills that a learner may have
1:40uh
1:41preferences not preferences any
1:44behaviors they might be having stuff of
1:46that sort yeah do you have anything to
1:47add to that no I think you hit all the
1:49marks of like what um assessments are
1:51and why they're significant all right
1:53Emily the barriers so it's not only what
1:56do they like where are their deficits
1:58but what's getting in the way of them
1:59learning I think that's a huge thing
2:00that people don't think about and I feel
2:02like even in school and like when we
2:04were learning about assessments like
2:06people hardly hit on the barriers right
2:08no it's not emphasized it's not it's
2:11it's sometimes it's like what can't they
2:12do but it's like okay but why aren't
2:13they doing it even when we'll kind of
2:15get further into VB map in a little bit
2:17but even when Emily and I joined Blossom
2:19together at the same time in the reports
2:21we never really addressed barriers like
2:23the barriers assessment within it and
2:24then we like started to really know hone
2:27in on them yeah okay
2:30nice that's okay but for today's episode
2:34we're going to be focusing on the VB map
2:36assessment it's one of the big ones we
2:38use for early intervention Learners K
2:41you have anything to add about what it
2:42is yes so the VB map it's a Criterion
2:45based assessment it was developed by uh
2:47Mark sunberg in what was it like 2008
2:50yeah in 2008 um then updated last 2014
2:5414 yeah in 2014 so it's relatively new
2:58um but with with that it's based on um
3:01Skinner's verbal Behavior book from like
3:03I think it was the ' 80s so it really
3:05addresses communication skills social
3:08skills um and it has like a barriers
3:10assessment and section within it um and
3:13then like playbase skills as well nice
3:16all right so we kind of also want to
3:18talk about like as we start talking
3:20about this how can we run these
3:22Assessments in a naturalistic way cuz
3:25that's very hard I you guys talk about
3:27it a lot when you guys came to Blossom
3:29you guys were like mhm okay well we
3:30don't have an assessment room where are
3:33we going to do this how are we going to
3:34do this you guys want to talk to that a
3:36little bit yeah do you want first I mean
3:38I learned in a clinic that I thought was
3:40pretty naturalistic um but in hindsight
3:42it wasn't um it was still very DT we did
3:45table time um assessments were really
3:47straightforward let's sit at the table
3:49do some flash cards and then we'll go
3:50play and we thought that was natural and
3:52it really wasn't so coming to Blossom
3:54I'm like where is my big box of 300 note
3:58cards or like picture I need my picture
4:00cards what am I going to ask them to so
4:03it was really hard to just be like okay
4:05here's a room full of stuff go assess it
4:07was very challenging yeah I came from a
4:09center that was very much like we knew
4:11it was DT and we knew it wasn't child Le
4:14or like play Bas you know they had
4:15reinforcing time but it was after 20
4:17trials at the table so each of our
4:19assessments like when I learned to do
4:21assessments I learned to do them like in
4:22my um like supervisor's office at a
4:26table and like we would literally sit
4:27there for the entire hour and this child
4:30I learned to like how I learned to run
4:32them and think about a new learner
4:34coming and that's all that's their first
4:36impression and it's also like a toddler
4:38a two-year-old yes like I had going to
4:41do at a table and it was well
4:42intentioned like I know the bcbas that I
4:44worked with they like they thought that
4:46they were doing what was right like as I
4:48thought they were doing what was right
4:50um but they would sit at the table and I
4:52also learned like not to use
4:53reinforcement during assessments I was
4:54taught you can't reinforce no praise so
4:57it was really hard so then I came to
4:58Blossom and I had my first assessment
5:00and my um supervisor like it was my
5:03training so I did it alongside her and I
5:05remember being like what am I supposed
5:08like I have to follow this child around
5:10and keep track of everything like I was
5:12good at like the data but finding the
5:14opportunities to Target um like a trial
5:17was really tricky for me and what's hard
5:19is these assessments are written I feel
5:21like with dtt in mind that they're going
5:24to be conducted at the table there's a
5:26lot of these small steps that they just
5:28expect us to be doing at a table so
5:31thinking outside of the box can be very
5:32hard I get that yeah it can be and the
5:35thing is like if we are assessing the
5:36Learner in that way we're not actually
5:39gaining what they know like we don't get
5:41to see all of their skills because if I
5:43were sitting at a table back to back for
5:44an hour I'm not I'm going to get burnt
5:46out and not show all my skills so we're
5:48not giving them the full benefit and the
5:49opportunity one thing I think that's
5:51important for people to realize is you
5:53can do all of this in play all the
5:55domains are easy to present within play
5:59and they're like with their preferences
6:00in mind yeah so that's very important
6:03well I think a big thing like you hinted
6:05to the preferences if I'm getting a new
6:07kid that I've never met before coming in
6:09they don't know me they're going to go
6:11do what they want to do and I'm not
6:13going to I'm going to learn I'm going to
6:14get a lot of valuable Insight just in
6:16that hour that I have them as to what
6:18they actually like to do because if I'm
6:20just sitting a table or in an assessment
6:22room I'm not going to have any idea on
6:24day one what this kid likes to do so
6:26it'll guide you on like how you can
6:27create the goals we'll get further into
6:29that but like how going to be individual
6:30for that learner and socially
6:31significant M some other things I know
6:33you said you know we were always taught
6:35not to use reinforcement but like while
6:37we're playing there are going to be
6:39natural reinforcers that you know come
6:41about or we can provide them with
6:43natural reinforcers like through that
6:44intrinsic motivation of play like it
6:47should be motivating for them to do this
6:49skill for themselves without the
6:51extrinsic motivation of us reinforcing
6:53and you know and if it's not coming
6:55during the assessment you know that's
6:56something you might need to work on as
6:58well exactly do you have any other tips
7:01some of the other like tips that I
7:03really wanted to hone in on is
7:05collaborate on the assessment so yes I
7:08feel like we do the parent interview
7:10portion um but with that I think the
7:13parent should be involved in like
7:15showing like following us around through
7:16the assessment and showing us like oh
7:18you know what he actually does know how
7:19to use this toy but he uses it this way
7:21so that we can guide the skills in that
7:23sense mhm yeah cuz these parents at this
7:25point they know their kid front to back
7:28you know they're really going to be
7:30especially for an initial assessment to
7:31me I'm going to get my information from
7:33the parent cuz again this kid doesn't
7:35know me they they're not going to show
7:36me everything that they know but the
7:38parent knows everything so that's true
7:40and then if you can getting other
7:41people's siblings Insight they play with
7:44the learner a lot like oh have they seen
7:46them play with anything stuff of that
7:48sort yeah so kind of go went over like
7:50what we can be doing we want to go over
7:52each some of the domains not each domain
7:55but some of domains and how we can
7:57naturally like create opportuni to test
8:00those skills yeah um cuz we we know that
8:02like manding and the social skills and
8:04play skills those are um they can and
8:07are commonly done in the natural setting
8:09but I think where students and new bcbas
8:12really don't realize is you can do every
8:14other domain in a natural setting it's
8:17those are the ones that I feel like
8:18people are naturally doing naturally
8:20right right in observation but there's
8:22so many other 30 minute intervals but 30
8:26minutes doesn't give you enough a lot of
8:30times and again especially for an
8:31initial assessment they don't you're not
8:33going to get half of the stuff that you
8:35want in initial assessment noral no
8:37matter how you do it but it's crazy
8:40right all right so I kind of wanted to
8:43ask you I feel like because you grew up
8:45as a student we talk a lot about how you
8:47grew up in this NE setting so what as
8:50far as like tacting how would you
8:51implement that um and like a natural way
8:53during an initial assessment I feel like
8:55the best room to go to for tacting is
8:58like the play kitchen M cuz you have a
9:02million things you could be tting in the
9:04kit you have plates you have like
9:07utensils you have different types of
9:09food within food think about how many
9:12different colored Foods there are red
9:14green yellow you can ask them the color
9:16of the food same thing with the utensils
9:18ask them whatever if you have like
9:20cookbooks around you you can look in
9:22there for additional item just go
9:24wherever remember there's a learning
9:26opportunity within each item that comes
9:29across you like even every environment
9:31this mug like how many things could I
9:33test with this mug like T what color is
9:36it pink p and white white oh what is it
9:40right here the flower yep then the
9:42letters yeah there's a little logo right
9:45here I could ask like there's so many
9:47there's so many things within each item
9:49you come across just take some time and
9:51practice you know like you have you're
9:53in a room how many things can you TCT in
9:55that room mhm yeah before you start in
9:58necess here
10:00what how many different things can you
10:01get out of this one activity like if
10:02you're doing Play-Doh I feel like I love
10:04Play-Doh too cuz you have like the shape
10:05little Cutters I love shape sord shape
10:08sords you can get so much out of a shape
10:10sorder tacting the shape tacting the
10:12color you've get some receptive ID you
10:14can get some visual performance matching
10:16stuff in there you can stack them up
10:17with some fine motor shape sorder is not
10:20just for what is it in the VB maath
10:22Stacks it's like it's putting in put in
10:24five pieces of a for that you can so
10:28many things I think it's like missed a
10:30lot of times do you have any other like
10:32tacting opportunities that you think of
10:34oh I always love books I think a lot of
10:36our kids tend to gravitate towards books
10:39and especially if you can get a book
10:40that's not super busy like an Eric Carl
10:42book or like a you know something with
10:44like Yeah The Very H caterpillar there's
10:46not a hundred things going on in the
10:48page because if there's too much on the
10:49page it's going to be
10:51distract it's going be too distracting
10:53they might not know what you're looking
10:54at but just going through books and like
10:56oh what do you see on this page I love
10:59love is the first 100 words that's they
11:02like little it's like little
11:04tiny whatever you need to focusing on
11:07one picture if you do want to block and
11:09array something that I do like when
11:10using a book for tacting is I use sticky
11:13notes especially during so I just sticky
11:15over the things that I'm like oh this
11:16might be a little distracting or there's
11:18too many like cluttered Pages that's a
11:20good idea yeah or books you can just
11:22fold back so you can only show one page
11:24although it might break them but
11:25whatever you know what are you're going
11:26to do and I feel like the same goes for
11:27list responding the same thing we just
11:30acted we can present in arrays as well y
11:32you can present in an array um I think
11:34that something that we really focus on
11:36with listener responding especially like
11:38motor actions and skills is we always go
11:40to like Clap Hands arms up and things
11:43like that but it's not so natural
11:44whereas like I really like to Target
11:46come here stop wait those functional
11:49ones yes I want to make it functional
11:51yes things that they're going to hear in
11:52a classroom cuz are ultimate goal yeah
11:55our goal is for them to get into a
11:56classroom setting so do they have any of
11:57these skills that we're looking for
11:58before graduation that's smart I like
12:01that okay so we kind of went over the
12:03listener responding ones let's go into
12:05the visual visual
12:07per um I think for this one so within
12:10the VB map I think it's like later on
12:13into the assessment probably like level
12:15two or three it's using puzzles as the
12:17array um for matching but I like to do
12:20that pretty early on cuz like you said
12:21it's an interest so and a lot of times
12:24you can find a puzzle that has identical
12:25matches um and then you can like do I
12:28like to do Shadow ones where it's like
12:30they don't have the matching picture so
12:31that's like you're not identical match
12:33rather than like looking for the direct
12:35Picture Match um so I really like to use
12:37puzzles for that one what do you use I
12:39feel like puzzles are a big one sometime
12:42like we have the smartboards that we
12:44have like those matching those are fun
12:45games I feel like I like to use those
12:47what about you I have two you talked
12:49about the the play kitchen earlier the
12:52the fruit you or the food you can cut in
12:53half matching the halves together I'm
12:55actually doing that with some my f right
12:57like when you're like watch this and you
12:58cut up the fruit you kind of gave their
13:00interest there oh no they all fell apart
13:02let's put them back together and it
13:03doesn't feel like work M yeah and also
13:06like anything that's colorful you can
13:09work on sorting colors that way but it's
13:11a lot of our kids kind of naturally do
13:13that anyway it's it's so it's a really
13:15easy way to see like oh they can sort by
13:17color or if you've gathered some
13:20information before they come in and you
13:21know they love cars you can gather all
13:23the cars with different colors in the
13:25building I'm sure wherever set you're at
13:27you have like a ton of cars ton of cars
13:30animals even letters if you have clients
13:32that have strong interest with letters
13:34and numbers if you have the magnets in
13:36different colors you guys can match
13:37those if you have the mats I feel like
13:39everyone has Circle time mats using that
13:41like ooh where could this match you know
13:44and then you get to run around like
13:45match it yeah it's really fun all right
13:48what about imitation I have big feelings
13:50about imitation go for it so
13:52specifically fine motor like gross motor
13:54imitation like you have to work on kind
13:56of those skills just to see if they're
13:58able to attend andate but for fine motor
14:01my biggest pet peeve I think in life is
14:03targeting like show me three show me two
14:07how functional P P sign but like how
14:10often are kids going like unless they're
14:123 years old but that's only for a short
14:13period of time like they're not going to
14:15be like using this like they we want to
14:17develop those skills in other ways so I
14:19will a lot of times use like what
14:21they're doing for like if they're
14:22coloring I want to like work on the fine
14:24motor imitating opening a marker fine
14:26motor like twisting a lock for the
14:28bathroom
14:29like or um like playing with Playdoh can
14:32they sze the Play-Doh like you can see
14:34motor skills in such different ways than
14:36just showing you their hand with like
14:38small signs cuz really when it comes
14:40down to it they can do this yeah cool
14:43what does that add to their life other
14:44than I can tell you I'm two exactly or
14:47out then the hard thing is when you're
14:49running an assessment you're like blank
14:51right you're blank you're like what else
14:53can I do with my f how many other things
14:56how many and or you Google like lists
15:00sheet to use they come with these like
15:01random lists things you can do like it's
15:04like puts two fingers together there's
15:07one like a butterfly but it's so hard I
15:10can't even I would have done it it was
15:12like this I can't I don't know like see
15:14you don't even know I don't even know
15:15but it says like put two together I'm
15:17like like that work that's really funny
15:21and by then I've lost our interest to no
15:23one's watching me do like they're over
15:25it but I also think too like most of our
15:27early Learners we're not going to jump
15:28right to find motor anyway so that's
15:30kind of like down the line things but
15:32some of our Learners when they come in
15:34yeah even for reassessments and like
15:35getting into that point for some of
15:37those early Learners in the gross motor
15:39what do you do to like individualize it
15:41oh most every kid that I've worked with
15:43really loves songs and so I you know a
15:45lot of kid songs and nursery rhymes you
15:47can do like little like like the wheels
15:48on the bus or like open and shut or like
15:51arms up for like up and down stuff like
15:53that so I like to watch Rachel for a
15:54little bit what she do she's Queen just
15:57K watch Miss Rachel same with what does
16:00Miss Rachel do it's very natural like if
16:02you are at some place where you're used
16:04to people being very natural playing all
16:06the time just watch a kids's video like
16:08back in her day like out of the box I
16:10feel like should run like out of the box
16:12oh I miss out of the box it was good
16:14Classics yeah songs Just make every
16:16Everything more fun like if I like the
16:19difference between do this versus like
16:21if you're happy and you know clap your
16:23hands right yeah it's just so much more
16:26natural and more fun and they're going
16:29to naturally be reinforced by doing the
16:30song with you anyway so you don't have
16:32to think about like okay they just clap
16:34their hands how do I reinforce them by
16:36singing the song and you're getting
16:37multiple domains cuz now you're also
16:39testing that joint attention and that
16:41engagement piece so you can do multiple
16:43things at one time or you can even test
16:44the inner verbal right there stop fully
16:47fill it in yeah exactly like
16:50incorporating them all together um for a
16:52coix youer what are you feeling I feel
16:54like the Cox one is so hard because I
16:56don't even like I know like later down
16:59like a lot of speech PS are like well we
17:00don't need to be shouldn't do the eoic
17:02or we shouldn't be running that specific
17:04Target but you for us it is like it's
17:07important it's important you know it's
17:09like research based too so I feel like I
17:12just like to run it when they're having
17:13the most fun on a swing while they're
17:15jumping just taking a short break
17:17presenting it and moving on I care it
17:20with like their spontaneous
17:21vocalizations so of earlier in the
17:23assessment I heard them say da da da
17:25later on I'll see if they can vocally
17:27imitate me cuz the goal of a Cox isn't
17:30to like see if they have the verbal
17:32language it's can they like imitate you
17:35with like 100% um like consistency yeah
17:38can they pay attention to what they're
17:39hearing can they potentially pay
17:41attention to what they're seeing your
17:42mouth do and can they copy it yeah so
17:44it's not just for like that verbal skill
17:47it's multiple different like domains in
17:49there I love to do a Cox like especially
17:51with a really really early really really
17:54early Learners um sound effects while
17:56you're playing I love that o ah wee ooh
18:01like all kinds of stuff like that making
18:02it dramatic cuz then they're more
18:03inclined yeah I like that lot what's
18:05that lady doing everybody knows I'm
18:08crazy she's a crazy lady the kids love
18:11it a all right what about I feel like
18:15for like the play and social we already
18:17talked like you get into it group
18:19getting into a real Circle time I feel
18:21like is the best like we're lucky we
18:23have Circle time going on like like it's
18:25every every 30 minutes but if you don't
18:28get a group of kids they're ready to do
18:30something yeah even plan ahead of time
18:32like okay I know the learner I'm
18:34assessing this initial is 2 and a half
18:35years old do I have like two or three
18:38other like around those age kiddos that
18:40I can pair them with or even if you just
18:42don't suspect that they'll be able to
18:43sit in a more structured group setting
18:45just putting them into a classroom with
18:47a bunch of other kids just to see what
18:48they do yeah what are they going to do I
18:50like that or even if you have a fun game
18:51like a parachute going on yeah and
18:53seeing if they join I feel like a lot of
18:56this we're talking about it but it gets
18:57like hard when you got collect the data
18:59right you're like oh I have to run it
19:01like do you guys have any tips for that
19:03like I know it was probably overwhelming
19:05when you guys started right so what did
19:06you feel like you made did or do what
19:08did you do to make it easier for you I
19:11don't you have any I especially for
19:13initial assessments I kind of tend to go
19:15in and some I've told my students this
19:18and they look at me like I'm crazy I
19:20like to go into an initial assessment
19:21purposely without a plan because I have
19:23I could I could sit here and make a plan
19:25for an hour and I'll get none of it so I
19:28I'll have like what did they request for
19:30how did they tell me did they make eye
19:32contact with me can they track things
19:35but then I'll just have a bunch of blank
19:36paper that's what I do see I was going
19:38to say with because we're a little bit
19:39more experienced bcbas we are able to
19:41literally just be like memorized we have
19:43it all memorized but for those new bcbas
19:45you can even um I forget what the
19:48website is but there's a data sheet
19:49that's pre-made for one right yes I
19:53don't know about that it's pre-made for
19:54the um BL has one too and I wonder we
19:57share it yeah I think we can we'll put
19:59it in the um yeah has one um but I think
20:03that's really beneficial and like
20:04knowing that if you have an early
20:06learner you might not get to like level
20:08two and three so just I feel yes it's
20:11okay that you're not going to get
20:12through it oh my gosh and when you're
20:13tracking everything like you're going to
20:15remember like you're going to go back
20:17and write the assessment and like know
20:18off the top of your head kind of like
20:21what what skills this learner had you're
20:22going to be like oh yeah I remember that
20:24they were doing tacting for this I think
20:25the next best goal is this but I feel
20:27like the first time to Rand myself I was
20:29like I got nothing done I genuinely like
20:32I could have cried I was like oh my go
20:33they going to yell at me Jasmine's going
20:35to look at him and be like what did you
20:37do literally no one I told oh gosh Katie
20:42come went in with such a plan and I
20:44looked at her I said girl you're not
20:45going to get any of that done she goes
20:47yeah I will I said okay we'll see and
20:48she didn't and I was like then that's
20:50okay like it's totally fine yeah I
20:52remember and I think a lot like you come
20:54in and you just have such an expectation
20:56anxiety around right you know you're
20:58like I have there's so many domains and
20:59there's so many different targets we're
21:01supposed to Pro but like remember that
21:04it's okay yeah and also all the barriers
21:07there's going to be so many that we have
21:09to F yeah and that's going to be and
21:11that should be in your assessment report
21:13cuz that is what important to Target
21:15like so right about it if you didn't hit
21:17anything because this child was
21:18tantruming or they were having big
21:20feelings and having a really hard time
21:22that's okay and that's where your goals
21:24should prior they just didn't even
21:26acknowledge that you were in the room
21:28need to work on EX I always go from the
21:31barriers assessment right off the bat I
21:33want to pause really quick before I
21:35forget our first code word is mirina m i
21:39r n a mirina okay get back into it all
21:43right I feel like we were kind of coming
21:45towards the end of like what to look for
21:47in assessments and what to do so I'm
21:48going to go into goal writing I know you
21:51and Emily like love talking about this
21:53that's what we had you on right yeah gos
21:55are our favorite so do you want to start
21:57a little bit yes so something that Emily
21:59and I talk about often is like our goals
22:03like with the assessment tools they are
22:06just tools there are guidelines to guide
22:09where we're going but your goals do not
22:12need to directly reflect from that book
22:15um and I know you have a lot of opinions
22:16on this I do have a lot of opinions on
22:18that I I had the I was very um I had the
22:23benefit of learning from pretty
22:24experienced bcbas who'd been speech
22:26paths for a really long time um and so I
22:29was always taught like all through my
22:30practicum like when I was learning how
22:32to write goals that as long as you can
22:35somehow prove that this is behavior
22:36analytic it does not need to come from
22:38the assessment it does not need to be
22:40pulled verbatim and honestly it
22:41shouldn't be pulled for verbatim from
22:43the VB map because that's again it's a
22:45guideline it's not the only way to do it
22:48no and so I tend
22:51to try to like really look at my client
22:54and be like okay we have to work on
22:55tacting five reinforcing items but what
22:57does that really really really look like
22:59for my client yeah like like thinking
23:01critically about it really thinking yeah
23:03thinking critically thinking like how am
23:04I going to get them to do this if they
23:06won't even look at me and turn around
23:07and honestly do I even am I even ready
23:09to write this goal like yeah it's
23:11technically the first tting goal but are
23:14they even ready for this do they have
23:15the vocal skills do they have the
23:16attending like how am I going to get
23:18them to that point I've seen so many
23:19people write tacked goals for kids that
23:22aren't even like
23:24vocalizing because they think they have
23:25to yeah you don't have to have a tacting
23:27goal verbal at this state write goal
23:31when I wasn't at Blossom like at my old
23:33Center I felt like I had to pull one
23:35goal from each one SE I need a manding
23:38goal I need a tactic goal and I need
23:40like like lrfc in this if you go through
23:43I was looking through my email and I
23:45found them I literally went an order and
23:48no one ever gave me that feedback like
23:49oh like that's not what you need to do
23:52well I think that's what it is is a lot
23:53of bcbas and like practicum young bcbas
23:56and practicum students you don't know
23:58that you can like you can think outside
24:01of the box this is your creative area
24:04you are the expert in this and like
24:06creating those goals hone in on that and
24:08like you know show your expertise and
24:10your knowledge as long as it relates um
24:12well only if you're submitting to
24:13Insurance necessity if it relates to the
24:15core deficits of autism and it's a
24:16medical necessity but also if you're
24:18doing it for private clients it doesn't
24:20need to like you can write a go on just
24:22about anything and if you're not
24:23familiar with like the like I forget
24:26medical necessity you can look up the
24:28insurance like
24:29definition if you really need something
24:32to go off of you can look those up yeah
24:34so just making sure that they relate to
24:35those but it can be whatever you want it
24:37doesn't have to so the the uh assessment
24:40tools they're really important because
24:41we need to see where these like children
24:43are falling Benchmark it's it's the go
24:45po yeah that it's where we have to get
24:47we need to know where they're falling
24:48how we have to get there like in
24:50relation to their peers
24:52yeah I love that guy so with goals but
24:56so let's kind of talk about a little bit
24:58though what if so like if you had a
25:00learner who's brand new an early learner
25:02and you have all of these level one BB
25:04map goals but they're not even near any
25:07of those goals where are you going to go
25:08first so I actually had about six months
25:10ago a little 2-year-old come in and she
25:12was about that where it's like I have to
25:14start at the bottom of the V map but she
25:17wouldn't pay attention to me everything
25:19went into her mouth um she didn't make
25:22ey contact with like she had none of
25:23those skills like she had vocal skills
25:25but she didn't know how to she didn't
25:26use them in any context so I was like
25:29okay well we're going to have to work on
25:30receptive ID but she's not going to pay
25:32attention so I had to teach her how to
25:34take a a gestal prompt and how to follow
25:36that so can you pick up something that
25:37I'm pointing to can you look at
25:39something that I'm pointing to you're
25:40creating the goal with the prompt
25:42exactly yeah because it's yeah you have
25:44to teach them how to take a prompt in
25:46order to teach them with prompts you
25:48know they're not going to just naturally
25:49know pick up this one that I'm pointing
25:51to exactly so you have to work on that
25:53and you have to start at the bottom I
25:56think so too what are some other ways
25:57you guys have like visualize goals for
25:59clients I know you talk a lot about the
26:00Mastery criteria yes Mastery criteria so
26:03we all I feel like every clinician and
26:05every student learns like the 80% across
26:08three days and two technicians which
26:10that is it has its needs and moments
26:13yeah it's like it's good however there's
26:15so many other ways that you can measure
26:17data you can modify that percentage
26:19because like if I think about it I'm not
26:21going to know something 70% of the time
26:23sometimes I forget things like we're
26:25human like it doesn't have to be such
26:27you agree
26:29comes into the room 90% of the time oh
26:31my gosh no depends on the person
26:33familiar people maybe maybe if you're
26:35lucky like if I'm not busy on my
26:38computer or something and like
26:39distracted the other thing is like you
26:41can do um instances across days so a lot
26:44of times especially for like requesting
26:46I see a lot of bcbas right um will Man
26:49four five different items with 80% and
26:51I'm like why how are we measuring it
26:53that way so I do like five times a day
26:56per or like for three consecutive days
26:58like you can change it it doesn't have
27:00to be directly from that yeah another
27:02way that I really like to modify my
27:04goals especially for a lot of our like
27:05really early Learners is working my
27:08prompts into the goal like you don't
27:09have to jump straight to Independence
27:11yeah exactly you don't have to so it's
27:13like will
27:16um stay in the classroom for group
27:19circle time given no more than three you
27:21know prompts from the adult or something
27:22like that like working the prom
27:24appropriate like you're not going to sit
27:27like 30 minutes and kids are going to be
27:29prompted in like the real world like
27:31you're going to get that verbal prompt
27:32like oh come back you know or like let's
27:35look up yeah of that sort yeah or even
27:37like I'm I'm working on a I have some
27:39task analyses for one of my client right
27:41now to like participate in his daily
27:42routines but every single one is given a
27:45gestural prompt from me like because
27:48he's not going to naturally know how to
27:49do that so it's but will he go put his
27:50hands under the water if I point to the
27:52water yeah sure and eventually I would
27:54love for him to just see running water
27:55and know I have to go wash my hands but
27:57we're not there yet
27:58so it's almost giving them thece of like
28:01expecting that they're going to need a
28:02little bit of
28:04help like when we're modifying these
28:06goals to be a little bit simpler the
28:08learner is going to gain so much more
28:10and feel that intrinsic motivation
28:11whereas like if they're getting errors
28:1410 days in a row like 0% they're not
28:16going to have the motivation to like
28:17continue learning and it's also
28:19motivating for our taex too if our taex
28:21are seeing just eror error err eror
28:23they're like well what am I doing wrong
28:25like you're not doing anything wrong I
28:26as a bcba just jumped head too fast yeah
28:29we jumped the other thing is um don't be
28:32glued to the number in the VB map there
28:34numbers are crazy 50
28:37tax Verve tax it's like yes so like you
28:41your goal like yes that's like the
28:43guideline and what we use to kind of see
28:45where this child is but like let's kind
28:48of if they're starting well so first you
28:50want to minimize that because expecting
28:52them to know 50 different like things
28:54within one assessment period might not
28:56be realistic so you can make that like
28:58you can start if it's a really early
28:59learner start with five or 10 and as
29:01they gain more skills you can jump that
29:03number and then the other thing is once
29:05they do start gaining those skills and
29:07say a learner like has mastered 20
29:09targets and they're starting to
29:11generalize like they're able to identify
29:13that this is a horse and this is a horse
29:15and they're all different you can
29:16presume competence and you don't have to
29:18test all 50 like a lot of times
29:21especially with those noun verb ones
29:23I'll put in like 10 really direct
29:25targets to teach the concept and once
29:28they Master those I'll move into just a
29:30generalization can they do it with novel
29:31things and if they can consistently I
29:34presume confidence and I'm just like
29:35okay cool we did it and then you can
29:37jump to the next goal and then if
29:38they're like really struggling with that
29:39next goal it's like okay maybe we do
29:40need to go back and add a few more and
29:43that's totally fine you can always go
29:45back also critically thinking about if
29:48that goal will benefit your Learner in
29:50any way yes that social significance
29:53piece like we write a lot of goals just
29:55like we're looking at the assessment
29:56we're like or we need it we're like oh
29:58my God we need 20 goals for this 40 hour
30:00make something up but not that you make
30:03something you pull something from the BB
30:04map but it may not benefit that learner
30:07right now especially if they're like a
30:08young one that hasn't learned even how
30:10to play yet and we're jumping to like
30:13listener responding yeah no let's take
30:16some time and work on those play skills
30:17or those Ming skills yeah I agree do you
30:21have anything else on that one um I
30:24think it's it's you know I was just
30:25having a conversation with a student
30:27about this the other day and it's really
30:28just looking at what's going to benefit
30:30their day the most like how are you
30:32going to increase just a little bit of
30:34something in their life and so if right
30:35now if it's just yeah how are you going
30:37to get him to hre and I think if it's if
30:40right now we're just in a state where we
30:42can't do we don't want to do anything
30:43but play just play work on expanding
30:45your play working on you like to line
30:47these blocks up what else can we do with
30:49these blocks like just learning
30:50different like variations and
30:52flexibility in their play I feel like
30:54that's a good one too but then also
30:57going to the barriers I think is really
30:59important too so it's not what skills
31:01can we teach it's what barriers can we
31:03reduce want give an example I feel like
31:04you have so many good ones I just think
31:06it depends on the kid but a lot of my
31:09like can I see I have to just like
31:11jogging my memory on what the barriers
31:13even are at this point but I think I
31:16feel like I can make a client up for
31:18you
31:20Cent um I think instructional control is
31:23one that like you can all cuz you can't
31:24really teach anything if you don't have
31:26instructional control so that's a big
31:27one
31:28um weak motivators that's you literally
31:31decrease that barrier by teaching them
31:33all the fun things that we can do around
31:35us yes expanding their like knowledge
31:37with or how to use different items yeah
31:39I think um like impaired social skills
31:41is a big one hyperactive Behavior can we
31:43work on sitting down and playing in one
31:46SP room staying in one room like there's
31:48so many things that you can do where
31:50it's like we're not necessarily building
31:51up our skills but we're reducing our
31:54barriers so that we can then build up
31:55our skills something I saw when I was at
31:57a TT CL people made like table time or
32:00like a goal too they were like less than
32:02critically but then like what their goal
32:04was like We'll tolerate sitting at the
32:06table for 5 minutes and the clients or
32:08not even five i' I had people do like 30
32:10the clients too yeah like they're
32:12nowhere that would be appropriate for a
32:13kid who's getting ready for first grade
32:15but not that's what five years or no
32:17four years away at that point um the
32:20other thing that I really do is like
32:22thinking about so these like the goals
32:24within the VB map there's like five
32:26domain or five areas for each of them
32:28sections like before you get to like
32:29level one two and three um but like
32:31going between the lines like they might
32:33not have they might not be ready to jump
32:35from level one to level two like that
32:37second step so they like within the VB
32:40map I don't think people realize you can
32:41use those like supporting goals I use
32:43those a lot and I don't see that a lot
32:45of people do because they're like well I
32:46can't I can't highlight it on my graph
32:48so why would I Target it it's like
32:50because in order to get to that second
32:52like area you need to hit the like B
32:55like between lines people forget you can
32:56look at that right that it's there like
32:59oh we're not mastering this they're
33:01still there but like go back and see
33:03what they're missing yeah because those
33:04supporting goals show you what areas are
33:06needed before we get to those like
33:08bigger skills so if you don't have those
33:10areas that you need the supporting areas
33:12you're not going to get there MH I just
33:14think it really comes down to like okay
33:16we've been working on this for four
33:18months and we're not making any progress
33:20sitting back and being able to like
33:21critically think about what about this
33:24isn't working what's the deficit what's
33:27the deficit what getting in the way is
33:28that that they don't understand the
33:29question is that they don't know how to
33:31listen to the question is it that they
33:33don't know to look at the question are
33:35we presenting the question in like a
33:36non-ch child-friendly way like I've seen
33:38a lot of taxs like working on things
33:40like keys and I'm like my two and
33:42three-year-old children might not know
33:44what a key is people don't even have
33:45keys anymore they like touch starts and
33:48their phones have little like well weal
33:51I talked about like at the beginning I
33:52mentioned that like big box of like 350
33:55like stimulus cards or whatever was like
33:58a like a cassette tape or a cassette
33:59player or one of them was asparagus why
34:02do I need to teach a kid what asparagus
34:04is the TV was a box TV like from like
34:07the ' 80s and I'm like these kids aren't
34:08going to know what that is we imitation
34:10people go like talking on the phone
34:12nobody knows what this is we were
34:13talking about jenzy today no one knows
34:15what this J does this do they oh that's
34:17weird how they imate like talk on the
34:19phone that's weird I think it's or like
34:22this I guess face FaceTime that's all
34:24they do these what they do too our J ear
34:28oh jenzy um code word number two is
34:31Jenny j nny y all right going into some
34:36examples of uh goals to individualize we
34:39kind of asked our fellow bcbas their
34:41favorite goals that they've written and
34:43this was kind of a list we came up yeah
34:44we have quite a few so the first one
34:47some of these actually came from Emily
34:49as well um but like the first one that I
34:51wrote is when listening to or singing
34:53preferred songs learner will imitate
34:56five different motor actions with 80%
34:58accuracy across 3 days so this like
35:00instead of just writing that the learner
35:02is going to imitate we're incorporating
35:03the songs and those preferences and
35:05things like that and expanding which one
35:08oh I was going to go on the second one
35:09go all right between classroom
35:11activities when presented with a visual
35:13schedule learner will independently
35:14follow the schedule and trans transition
35:17between activities within 30 seconds
35:19without engaging and challenging
35:21behaviors with 90% accuracy across three
35:23sessions this is one of the ones with a
35:25prompt it has like included the visual
35:28schedule that they will be using so this
35:30is wordy but like what the goal it's no
35:32nothing from the VB map we want to know
35:34if the child is going to be learning to
35:36follow their um visual schedule um and
35:39then the other thing is like you're
35:41allowing them that 30 seconds like we
35:43can't expect kids to immediately like
35:46immediately drop what they're doing to
35:47jump in and like follow your instruction
35:49what if they're like playing with a
35:51really highly preferred toy and they're
35:52like oh my gosh I really need to finish
35:53this you don't get up when your husband
35:54tells you come on no I'm like oh my God
35:56let me finish this text I'm watching a
35:58Tik Tok give me a minute take you're
36:00like okay now feel so much more natural
36:02and I think that it giving giving them
36:04that leeway or giving them a little bit
36:06of time they're going to be so much more
36:08willing to do it long term whereas if we
36:10just like okay let's
36:13go I said it and now we need to go and
36:16everything else just who cares about
36:17that we're going like that's what
36:19happens sometimes as attack and I feel
36:20like some parents kind of feel that way
36:22too and like so we focus a lot in parent
36:24training of like we have to like treat
36:26our children like yes you are their
36:28parent and you're they should follow
36:30your rules but also like they're human
36:31like give them give them the same Grace
36:33that you want to give yourself MH um the
36:36next goal I really wanted to hit on um
36:39it's pretty simple but it's learner will
36:41respond to her name by looking in the
36:43direction of the instructor when paired
36:45with a tactile prompt so two things I
36:47want to Target about this the VB map
36:49wants the eye contact that's what
36:51they're looking for I don't when I'm
36:53talking to somebody I look at their
36:54forehead I look past them sometimes I'm
36:57not at them like I'm think lot
37:00feedback like for the field like forcing
37:02eye contact it's not necessary
37:04especially for autistic Learners like
37:06that's not fair to them and then with
37:08the tactile prompt um this want to
37:11incorporates what Emily was saying about
37:12like we want to include prompts within
37:14the goals but also like it um has them
37:17like respond and learn to like those tap
37:19like tapping cues so if I were to like
37:21see usra in the hallway I might tap her
37:23be like usra good to see you and that
37:25indicates to her to look towards me so
37:26we want to give like those goals for
37:28some of our kids too I think that's
37:29really help and it's just again it's
37:30more natural yes natural I have so many
37:33thoughts on eye contact too but that's a
37:34whole other discussion you want to get
37:36into it don't
37:38mind all right and the last goal we have
37:40is learner learner will remain engaged
37:43in Social sensor games with the adult
37:45I.E peekaboo or reading together
37:48returning to continue the activity by
37:50making eye contact moving body closer
37:53Etc oh sorry that was in parenthesis I
37:55should have gone like this this is one
37:56of my goals it's really
37:58for at least five exchanges before
38:00self-terminating the activity two times
38:02per day for three consecutive days tell
38:04us about it so this is a goal that I
38:07will do with almost every single one of
38:09my clients that comes in because it can
38:10Target so many different things and it
38:12really doesn't matter what level learn
38:16social social sensory so I feel like I
38:18don't know why I feel like I just grew
38:20up as a bcba learning with this phrase
38:22and I feel like nobody knows what it is
38:24I had to look it up last night when you
38:25told me yeah so social sensory there's
38:27like kind of when you think about it
38:30kind of but there's two types of play
38:31there's object play where the source of
38:33the fun is the things that you're
38:34playing with and there's social play
38:36where the object the source of the fun
38:38is me I want to be the fun one I'm a
38:40very selfish bcba I have to be the fun
38:43one um so kind of what I Target with
38:46this in the it's giving them a little
38:49bit of free access to or just like
38:51giving them a little bit of fun for free
38:53and then will they acknowledge that it
38:55was fun and somehow tell tell me that
38:57they want to keep having fun with me so
39:00what that might look like is if I go up
39:02to you know if I throw them in the air
39:04and we're running in the gym and I just
39:06stop and I throw them in the air they
39:07acknowledge that that's fun that I was
39:09the fun one will they then walk up to me
39:12and ask me to do it again it could be
39:14even something as simple as like I
39:15tickle them on their belly really
39:17quickly and then I stop well they make
39:19ey again I said I have thoughts on eye
39:21contacts will they look at me be like
39:23hey why did you stop keep going or will
39:25they take my hand and put it back on
39:26their belly come on or like yeah I've
39:28had a kid who like raises their arm for
39:30the arly and it's just it's any way that
39:32they tell you please keep doing what
39:34you're doing and I love this one because
39:37it's first and foremost it makes pairing
39:39super super super easy like if you
39:41become the source of the fun A kid will
39:43do anything for you and this is great
39:44for parents I feel like a lot of parents
39:47struggle with like that bonding with
39:48some of their little kiddos who struggle
39:50with that engagement when we teach the
39:51skill it makes their home life so much
39:53more exciting I have a whole list that I
39:55send to parents when I write this go
39:56that I'm like this is what we're doing
39:58do it at home it's amazing um but yeah
40:00it works on that pairing it works on
40:02that joint attention of like focusing on
40:03the same thing it works on initiation
40:06which is a really early manding skill
40:08you know can they somehow like start and
40:10like realize that they want to tell me
40:12that more because that eye contact is
40:13aand it's like them indicating to you
40:15their preference and what they want in
40:16that moment it is and but then also
40:18depending on the learner and where
40:19they're at I can work a coic into this
40:22can I like can I make a sound effect and
40:24will they then Echo me so they can get
40:26more exactly like I just feel like
40:29within you get so many different
40:31learning opportunities out of something
40:33as simple as tickling them yes it's such
40:35a good goal I write it with everybody
40:37it's my favorite thing to do I stole it
40:38and I put it in today for one of my
40:40early Learners feel like people are
40:41going to use it going forward now take
40:43it I didn't come up with it but I love
40:45it oh it's amazing and well that's kind
40:48of us wrapping up quickly I want to know
40:51so our third code word is going to be
40:53Taylor t a y l o r well Emily thank you
40:57for for having me it was really fun it
41:00was such a good time thanks for coming
41:02and we'll make sure we clock out when we
41:04leave please let me know if you need me
41:06to change the
41:08time all right guys thank you so much
41:10for listening please don't forget to
41:11like And subscribe and if you want your
41:13ceu credits go to our website at Blossom
41:15children center.com talk to you later
41:18see you

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