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Episode 04: Gestalt Language Processing Meets Applied Behavior Analysis | FREE ABA CEU — Transcript

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0:00hello welcome back to the blossoming
0:02together podcast today we have a guest
0:05speaker and before I introduce her I
0:07want to kind of go over our key
0:09objectives and remind you guys that you
0:11should be listening for our code words
0:13throughout the podcast so our first
0:16objective is through collaboration with
0:18an SLP guest speaker BCB professionals
0:21will evaluate the effectiveness of
0:23current prompting strategies in
0:25supporting individuals with justall
0:27language processing our second learning
0:30objective is remaining within your scope
0:31of confidence while working as a part of
0:34an interdisciplinary Team all right on
0:36to the fun stuff we have Morgan here
0:38she's a lead speech pathologist at
0:40Blossom children center uh she is
0:44familiar with just do language
0:45processing that's going to be the topic
0:47of our podcast today so Morgan how did
0:50you fall into this role of lead SLP hi
0:54everyone I'm Morgan um I've been a
0:57speech linguish pathologist working with
0:59kids for 3 years now and I've been at
1:01Blossom for 2 years um I've always had a
1:04passion for working with autistic kids
1:07specifically um and my case load was
1:10really high at Blossom so about 90% of
1:14my kids were autistic and you know I
1:17just found that a lot of them are really
1:19stuck either at that single word level
1:21or we'll get into it later but um
1:24delayed eolia and I just I really didn't
1:26know how to support them so I became
1:30interested in gestal language processing
1:32and I took the meaningful speech course
1:34and it's been my passion ever since
1:37awesome so you've been really diving
1:39into this justult language processing
1:41how long have you been in the field as
1:43like a speech path three years three
1:45years a awesome all right so let's get
1:47into it yes okay so before we jump into
1:51the core content I want to clarify how
1:53do you pronounce I'm not even going to
1:55try and say it GP yes so it's a German
1:58term so it's technically Galt but I've
2:01heard other clinicians say Galt justt I
2:05will probably refer to it as GP just to
2:08make it easier um and then I do want to
2:11make a note before we get into this so
2:13nla natural language acquisition that is
2:17the therapy approach and the guidelines
2:19that we use when working with gastal
2:21language processors so if you hear me
2:23talk about natural language acquisition
2:25or nla it's the same thing as glp that's
2:29just the that we use to help support our
2:31kids thank you that clarifies it um so
2:34what exactly is gal language processing
2:36and who is a just language processor MH
2:38so I'm going to start with that there's
2:40two ways that we learn or process
2:42language so the one way the first way
2:45which I'm sure you guys are familiar
2:46with is analytic language processing so
2:49I think of my typically developing
2:522-year-old nephew and most likely your
2:54girls as well um so he processes
2:57language in single words or units so
3:01these are our word babies so we start
3:04with learning one word and then we jump
3:06to two-word phrases three-word phrases
3:09and so on um as opposed to gash language
3:13processing they are our intonation
3:15babies so they process language in
3:18chunks or phrases yeah so what this
3:20might look like is high intonation
3:25patterns unintelligible speech where we
3:27may not be able to understand what
3:28they're saying they may have some suck
3:30single words as well as immediate and
3:33delayed ealia okay so you noted before
3:38like at the beginning that like the
3:39stage so what are the stages of gal
3:42language processing and how do they
3:43progress through in them yeah um so
3:46we'll there are four main stages for
3:49natural language acquisition or gestal
3:51language processing so stage one is our
3:54eolia stage so the kids in this stage
3:58have a lot of IMM mediate or delayed
4:00ealia so the difference between that
4:02immediate ealia they repeat exactly what
4:05you say from berbaum so if you if I
4:09asked you Uso what is this the immediate
4:12eia would be what is this so you would
4:14repeat exactly what I say or even like
4:16is it you would repeat partial or the
4:18full thing that I say um whereas delayed
4:21eolia is what they recalled from the
4:25past so that could be recalling their
4:27favorite songs their favorite books or
4:30even something that an adult had said to
4:32them in the past so one of the examples
4:34that I give parents is if a child fell
4:37down on the slide and a parent said are
4:39you asked are you okay and the kid
4:43picked that up and repeated are you okay
4:46and the next instance when they fall
4:48down or if they hurt their finger
4:50they're they're using that delayed
4:51echola in recalling are you okay so that
4:54would be an example of delayed
4:56aqualia and then the next stage oh I'm
4:58sorry I didn't even stage one um so
5:01stage one our gestal language processors
5:04they need more gals so this is the stage
5:07where we would be modeling short phrases
5:10and new gals once we have enough gals
5:15that are varied in we want to make sure
5:16they're able to request we want to make
5:18sure they can comment protest Express
5:21joy as well as transition once we feel
5:24like they have enough of those and
5:26they're operating in 50% of the next
5:28stage then we would move to the second
5:31stage which is
5:33mitigation so stage two is the
5:36mitigation stage and um to give an
5:38example of one of my kiddos who is in
5:42stage one right now one of her scripts
5:45from a YouTube show is look at this so I
5:49I am going to start modeling stage two
5:51gals with her so I want to make sure I
5:53can mitigate that phrase that she has
5:55look at this so something that I would
5:57model if we were playing with dinosaur
6:00look at the dinosaur so I'm mixing and
6:02matching her original script and I'm
6:04making it something I'm modeling
6:06something new for to see if she'll pick
6:08that up so I would model look at the
6:10dinosaur or even if I wanted her to get
6:12my attention look at me as something I
6:14can model so that's mitigation mixing
6:16and matching different phrases that we
6:18can use that makes sense yeah um and
6:21then stage three is our single word
6:24isolation stage and our referential
6:26stage and I we call this the magical
6:28stage of
6:30um because this is when we start to see
6:32some of that self-generated language um
6:36and this is where we would work on
6:37single words so I noted briefly in stage
6:40one how they can have those stuck single
6:42words so I'll explain the difference
6:44between what a stuck single word is and
6:47what's actually meaningful in stage
6:48three yeah so a stuck single word would
6:51be if they're looking at an aquarium and
6:54they just point to the aquarium and say
6:56fish there's a lot of different animals
6:59in the aquarium so that would be an
7:01example of a stuck single word for
7:03example and then when we get to stage
7:06three they're actually pointing at that
7:08fish and saying fish so it has true
7:11meaning to it so and once we get to
7:14stage three it's kind of like stage one
7:17of the analytic language learning so
7:19we're starting at we're starting from
7:20square one there so we would work on
7:22one-word phrases and then jump to
7:24two-word phrases and so on does make
7:27sense yeah um and then once we get to
7:30stage four that stage four through six
7:33are our grammar stages so um we'll work
7:35on beginning grammar intermediate
7:37grammar as well as advanced grammar
7:39right and once we get to stage four
7:42that's when we start to or stage three
7:44and stage four that's when we start to
7:46see their receptive language skills
7:48significantly increase so maybe they're
7:51able to answer wh questions and follow
7:55directions um because they have that
7:57self-generated
7:59um sentences so it's not until they get
8:01to that third stage which I think that's
8:04where sometimes it gets tricky when
8:06collaborating um because a lot of times
8:08we started out like very early with our
8:10Learners so that's interesting yeah um
8:13and then I wanted to make another note
8:14too because this is something that
8:16parents bring up a lot and I know you
8:18and I have shared a client um so I'll
8:21use him for example he was in the later
8:24stages of nla so he was nearing five and
8:28six where he was his was age appropriate
8:30for his age and we were nearing
8:31discharge and one of parents biggest
8:34concern and some of their push back was
8:36in moments where he was disregulated or
8:39upset he would Resort back to some of
8:43his delayed echolalia in stage one so I
8:46just want to make that noted that that
8:48is typical he okay he didn't regress
8:51back he's not back in stage one we look
8:54out which stage he is mostly operating
8:57in so he was mostly operating in the
8:59those later stages but it's okay when he
9:04is emotional or stressed right when I'm
9:07crying I don't want you to talk to me
9:09like communicate no no no that's all I'm
9:11going to say yeah it's hard to
9:12communicate so that so that that's fair
9:15for him to go back to his stage one
9:17scripts too and like once a justult
9:19language processor always look justult
9:20language processor is but I tell parents
9:23um and we worked a lot with the family
9:25and working on like coping strategies
9:26and everything um I think that's such a
9:29good point that you noted do like as
9:31parents or even other clinicians don't
9:33look at that as a regression it's not a
9:35regression like they're just progressing
9:37as they need to and sometimes they're
9:38going to fall back to what's easiest for
9:40them when they're stressed out exactly
9:42yep and we just have to be there to help
9:43support and co-regulate them and
9:45acknowledge their scripts yeah great so
9:47how long has just do language processing
9:50been around yeah it's actually been
9:52around since
9:531983 by an Peterson and um Barry PR yeah
9:57wait that's longer than I thought I know
10:00born yeah we weren't born yet who knows
10:02what was going on yeah all right and why
10:04do you feel like it's gained so much
10:06traction recently cuz I feel like even
10:08before like as a technician whenever I
10:11would talk to speech p no one was
10:12bringing up the do language processing
10:13it's something that's come up I would
10:15say last year that I've been hearing
10:17about it yeah and this was something
10:18that I was never taught in grad school
10:20too so once I got into to the real world
10:22I was a little surprised um learning
10:24about this as well but I think social
10:26media played a huge role in um educating
10:30us about gastal language processing and
10:32I go back to a year and a half ago at
10:34Blossom when you know um we work at an
10:36Autism Center 90% of my case load are
10:40ASD kids and I felt like I was really
10:44stuck with a lot of my kids where I'm
10:46like I don't know what to go next we
10:48can't get past this delayed eolia or
10:50we're stuck at the single word level um
10:53so meaningful speech which is the course
10:56that I took she put a lot of information
10:58on social media which I feel it gained a
11:01lot of traction so I was able to educate
11:03myself and I've taken her course um so I
11:07think that played a huge role it's crazy
11:09that in this day and age like social
11:11media plays such a big impact on like on
11:13our like practices like you know we're
11:15learning so much from that that's crazy
11:18yeah it's a big part of our learning I
11:19want to pause really quick for our first
11:21code word for your cus it's going to be
11:23child Le awesome pecking love that word
11:27all right all right I another question I
11:30had is does gal language processing only
11:33apply to autistic Learners or autistic
11:35individuals yeah no it actually doesn't
11:37so about March Blanc reports in her
11:40research approximately 85% of gal
11:44language processors are autistic okay
11:47however I do want to caution you about
11:50that because it is a little subjective
11:52but I also agree with that at some point
11:55cuz 90% of my case load are autistic
11:58kids and I would say about 85% of them
12:00are glp so okay to me personally I feel
12:03like that number is pretty
12:05accurate um and typically developing
12:08kids can also be gal language processors
12:11so we all could have been gashat
12:12language processors but we just fly
12:14through the stages really really fast
12:16that we didn't need support oh
12:18interesting see I never thought about it
12:20that way I only thought about it
12:21relating to like our autistic population
12:23I didn't realize that like we could have
12:25been dis and maybe we were we don't know
12:27our parents didn't tell us yeah would
12:29have known yeah we could have been a lot
12:31of often the jargon the unintelligible
12:34utterances is mistaken for jargon so we
12:36totally could have been and then just
12:38fast flew flew through it so fast that
12:40we ended up in stage one with our single
12:42words yep well great well going going
12:45back into the research I feel you had
12:46some points that you wanted to make
12:47right yeah so you referenced Marge Blanc
12:50um kind of an area this is like where it
12:52gets a little bit tricky and we've heard
12:54some like discussion in the field um
12:57that there's a little bit lack of
12:58research but you mentioned Mar Blanc is
13:01there any other research that you guys
13:02follow um when targeting GPS yeah so in
13:062012 she had a longitudinal study that
13:09followed autistic kids who are gal
13:12language processors using that nla
13:15model and um so years later they caught
13:20up with I believe they were now adult
13:22Autistic or autistic adults um and they
13:27reported that they preferred having the
13:32gestal
13:33phrases over the top phrases so they
13:36preferred having language naturally
13:38modeled to them rather than having those
13:40taught phrases so gestal language
13:42processors they are going to pick up
13:45phrases that they want to pick up so not
13:47everything that I'm modeling they're
13:50they're going to pick up so it's
13:51whatever is Meaningful to them right
13:54sure so what is like going back I feel
13:56like I want to touch a little bit on it
13:58what is like the well what would be the
14:00traditional approach like if you were
14:01trying to teach me a phrase you would
14:03just sit for analytic learn for an
14:05analytic learn yeah I would probably
14:07teach we'll get into this later but I
14:09want okay whatever yep I that's more of
14:11like a taught phrase whereas like G
14:15phrases are more naturally so I'm just
14:17modeling I'm not expecting them to say
14:20anything if they do great but there's no
14:24expectation there yeah it's whatever
14:26they pick up um and then back into back
14:29to the research um so and they also
14:32reported that they preferred having
14:35their own choosing their own phrases to
14:37work on self um generation for
14:40communication as well as regulation and
14:43self- advocacy skills yeah so um I mean
14:47we could get into this a little bit more
14:49too but it is it is very descriptive and
14:52I feel like that is a little bit of a
14:53struggle for the bcbas just because our
14:57data is our language samples right so I
15:00don't know if you have any thoughts on
15:02that but that's going to be like where
15:03it's a little bit hard for us because it
15:05is so descriptive and anecdotal where we
15:08want to look at like the objective
15:10measurable yeah like for me it's very
15:12hard like I don't think subjectively I
15:15don't you know I can't guess what
15:17someone's saying so I take a lot of what
15:20I see literally like not literally like
15:22I know a script is you know might
15:25communication and there might be
15:26scripting something but I feel like I
15:29personally or like I as a bcba cannot
15:31deep dive into that I can't be the
15:33person that like digs to try to figure
15:35out the meaning I assumes what they're
15:37trying to communicate with their
15:38phrasing like it's really hard for us
15:40it's very very hard so the most we like
15:42we'll talk about this a little bit later
15:43is like what we can do is we can take
15:45ABC data and report that back to you but
15:48it's very hard for me to think
15:50subjectively and I think that's where we
15:52start like it doesn't make click it
15:54doesn't make sense to me a lot of the
15:56time so that's where I think we start
15:58like like well I she told me like this
16:00person's a just all language processor
16:02but I'm I go back confused sometimes
16:04like I didn't understand what that meant
16:06I'm glad I'm here to talk about it then
16:08yeah exactly so I'm really glad and I
16:10think that like when I'm looking for
16:12research I'm looking for experimental
16:13studies so is are there any experimental
16:16studies out currently no not yet marg's
16:19most recent uh study was done in 2023
16:22with some other okay so it's not that
16:23first one that was done like8 the ' 80s
16:26no that was there was one done in 2012
16:28that was
16:29that was a longitudinal study and then
16:31there was one in 2023 yes and then one
16:33in the ' 80s like you said just
16:34confirming that there's two type of ways
16:36that we learn language and going through
16:37the stages the ' 80s wasn't Marge Blanc
16:39who was that again it was an Peters and
16:43Barry PR okay thank you for clarifying
16:46um and then in marg's most recent study
16:48in 2023 it was more descriptive so it
16:51wasn't an experimental study basically
16:54confirming the findings from 2022 with
16:57some additional support that we learned
17:00like we want to acknowledge their
17:02scripts and we want to go through these
17:04stages and model what's appropriate for
17:05each stage right um but I'm hoping in
17:10future research it actually says we'll
17:12attach the research to this podcast um
17:16but in her research under the conclusion
17:18and future directions category they do
17:21report that there is future research to
17:24be done hopefully some experimental
17:26studies with the control group where we
17:28have a set of glps and maybe half of
17:31them do the nla um approach and then the
17:34other half don't or do the traditional
17:37analytic approach so I'm really curious
17:39to see the differences and findings in
17:41that I can't wait to see where research
17:43goes with this it's going to be really
17:44we love our research so we're we're
17:46waiting for I know I really wish and I
17:49hope to see other people other than like
17:51Marge Blanc like the studies cuz I feel
17:53like that's the one you guys most
17:55commonly talk about where I wish I could
17:57look up more sure right cuz it feels
18:00like a little biased sometimes like she
18:01she might be trying to prove her point
18:03for the first time around she is our
18:05Queen GP there are others listed on the
18:09um research report which sorry I can't
18:12think of their names off the top of my
18:13head but'll be come to you anyways
18:16they're at all at all yeah awesome and
18:19then I was wondering do you
18:22consider um scripts and eolia to be like
18:28do you consider them in your language
18:30samples yes yeah so we during our
18:33language samples I try and take maybe 50
18:36utterances for our language samples and
18:39I'm writing down or sometimes typing or
18:41even recording everything that the child
18:43is saying and we score it based on which
18:46stage that they're in so the delayed
18:48echolalia all of that if it's they're
18:50singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star I'm
18:51writing that down and I would score that
18:54as stage one because it's a delayed
18:56ealia and um something that I want to
18:59mention too is all scripting and eolia
19:02are forms of communication and they all
19:04have meaning so one of the most
19:07difficult parts for our kiddos in stage
19:10one is doing that detective work so not
19:14all scripts are literal we can't take
19:16everything literal um so for example if
19:20they're singing Twinkle Twinkle Little
19:21Star that might be that they want to
19:23listen to Twinkle Twinkle Little Star so
19:25my first thing that I would do is either
19:27start singing with them or I would play
19:29the song it could also be that they're
19:32trying to express I'm happy or I love
19:34this song or there's a lot of our kids
19:37at the center who every time they're
19:40disregulated they will cry and they'll
19:43sing a song I think of this one boy in
19:46particular he was saying do you know the
19:48muffin man and that was him telling us
19:50that I'm sad so we can't take all
19:52scripts literal okay okay that's good to
19:54know I think that's such a good point
19:57and I you know we'll talk a little bit
19:58more into digging and how we can
19:59collaborate but it's so tricky like you
20:02said as bcbas how can we look into this
20:05um within our sessions um so like you're
20:08saying don't look at it literally so
20:09user said collect ABC data using that
20:12phrase as the behavior so that b and we
20:14want to know what's happening beforehand
20:16and after like you they have that phrase
20:18and that's how what we can present to
20:20the SLP to be like okay what is this
20:22phrase mean to you what should we be
20:25modeling instead yeah what the what are
20:27your suggestions it is like we said
20:29before kind of we can't do that like
20:32subjective digging we yeah it's not on
20:34us we're just sharing what we can see
20:37and measure and we're sharing that with
20:38you I think that's a great idea to use
20:40that as ABC data and report to the SLP
20:44or even parents what I love about
20:46Blossom is that we're always
20:48collaborating so I can have the text
20:51right if they hear a phrase right like
20:52write down what this mean or write down
20:55what they said and like we can all
20:56figure out together like what this means
20:58or like if my kiddo goes into the OT
21:00session and they were really happy and
21:02they were saying this we can all work
21:03together collaborative to find the
21:06meaning I agree before we jump into
21:08anything else really exciting our second
21:11ceu code word is
21:13GP oo great glp just the the three it
21:18okay awesome I guess it's not a
21:21word the way we're talking about it it
21:23sounds like it is all right so I'm a
21:27bcba and I'm coming to you I want to
21:29know how I can help best support my glp
21:32Learners what are you doing in your
21:34sessions to help support our Learners
21:36that are glps yeah all of my sessions
21:38are child Le so I'm following the
21:40child's lead throughout the session if
21:42they are scripting I am acknowledging
21:45their scripts and I by acknowledging by
21:48repeating it back to them and if it's
21:51highly untelligible and I don't quite
21:52understand what they're saying I'm just
21:54saying like Yeah okay or even nting my
21:56head along like I I just want them to
21:58know like I hear you I understand you um
22:02and I feel like one of the biggest
22:03things um that you guys might have been
22:06taught we were taught in the past too is
22:08to either ignore or redirect ealia so I
22:11want to make that clear we don't want to
22:13do that we really want to acknowledge
22:15what they're trying to say to us I think
22:17one thing people struggle with is like
22:19acknowledge like you don't have to go in
22:22and deep dive into like every time you
22:25like you said just say okay and you know
22:27move on that's acknowled M too it
22:29doesn't have to be oh you just said XYZ
22:33you want this don't say that yeah we
22:36never want to do that yes that's very
22:38helpful to know and I feel like our
22:39listeners would like benefit from that
22:42so what what else go back to it what
22:44else yeah my sessions are child Le I'm
22:46acknowledging all forms of
22:48communication and depending on what
22:50stage they're in I'm modeling
22:53appropriate phrases for that stage right
22:57um with the PHR es so can you describe a
23:00little bit more detailed about like what
23:02mitigable phrases would look like in
23:04those different stages yeah absolutely
23:06so in stage one we want to choose
23:09phrases that are mitigable so we want to
23:11be able to mix and match so I tend to do
23:15and a lot of our other slps will do this
23:17too I choose phrases that or words that
23:21are most likely contractions so like the
23:23lets or the its or even Iana I'll do
23:26Iana um wear are some that I'll do too
23:31um we'll use those so they're easy to
23:33mitigate so I talked about my friend in
23:36the past who said um now I'm blanking on
23:40what her script oh look at this look at
23:42this so that is a stage one Gall delayed
23:45ealia from her YouTube show so I'm
23:48looking to mitigate that and I can use
23:50look as one of those so look I could say
23:53look at this look at me yeah check it
23:57out would say check it out out I don't
23:59know I would knew that one or for
24:03example if one of their stuck single
24:04words were dog I would model like it's a
24:07dog that way they would be able to
24:08mitigate it's a dog it's a horse or even
24:12there's the gym here's mommy things like
24:15that when thinking about a mitigable
24:17phrase for like our bcbas think about it
24:19as something that they can generalize to
24:21other learning opportunities throughout
24:23their day MH oh I wanted to bring up one
24:25thing I I feel like Open Door is one
24:29that is overly generalized we're
24:32everywhere and we're like what shall we
24:34do open open
24:36door that is one where I feel like bcbas
24:41tend to teach I don't know if that's
24:42part of the VB map or I think what is
24:46happening is the technician or like the
24:48BCB is looking for we look for every
24:51learning opportunity that is available
24:53to request to request you know and you
24:55know in our day like most kids are
24:57motivated by going into like specific
24:59rooms so in front of that they're
25:02they're just like okay we're here like
25:03what's another like learning opportunity
25:05and I feel like we're prompting that
25:07Open Door instead of saying what do you
25:08want we're like open door open door yes
25:11and that brings me to a good point
25:12because I feel like a lot of my glps
25:15tend to overgeneralize open door so we
25:17see it like if I have a box or their
25:20snacks they're saying open door for that
25:22whereas I would model let's open it or
25:25open it rather than open door so they're
25:27not overgeneralizing
25:29once once we get to stage three I we
25:31could teach open door but since they
25:33don't have that attached meaning to
25:37whatever the door is they're
25:38overgeneralizing that so I always
25:40encourage my bcbas or technicians to
25:43model let's open it or open it rather
25:45than open door I never thought about
25:46that I literally never thought about
25:48that yes I was just talking to a bcba
25:49about that the other day so it made me
25:51think about that amazing I was I was
25:53going to ask like what about I want
25:56phrases or I want I know
25:58I already know yeah wait so I want
26:01phrases were historically taught by or
26:05done by well- meaning SLP so even me
26:08like I said before I used to teach I
26:10want phrases um but what we've noticed
26:13is that kids tend to get very prompt
26:15dependent on these I want phrases so
26:18um I a lot one of my kids would um
26:23scroll through his I want phrases and
26:25say I want door I want toy I want snack
26:28and we really we really didn't know what
26:30he actually wanted he's just scrolling
26:33through his phrases so I feel like I
26:35want phrases it's a little bit trickier
26:38to mitigate those okay but I feel like
26:41it's so hard for me to understand
26:42because I want is you said I wantana is
26:46a okay one and I think it's just because
26:48historically in the past that we've
26:50already taught them that I want phrases
26:52so either they're like waiting for the
26:54fill in or they're not understanding the
26:56true meaning of it they be waiting for
26:59the Fillin in the same for the other
27:01phrases so that's what like what if we
27:02were to use I want but instead of
27:05waiting for that Fillin for them to auto
27:07fill it in what if we said I want snack
27:09I want and like modeled that why does
27:12that why is that less meaningful still
27:14going back to the scrolling like I've
27:17seen kids in the past that will just
27:18scroll and like truly we just don't
27:20understand the meaning they're just like
27:21scrolling they're memorizing these I
27:23want phrases that were taught to them
27:24and there's really no true meaning for
27:26it and another thing that I want to
27:29point out too is it doesn't really sound
27:31natural to me it sounds like really
27:33unnatural so if you go to a playground
27:36with a bunch of preschoolers running
27:37around you don't really hear I want
27:39swing I want jungle gym you hear let's
27:43go down the jungle or let's go down the
27:45slide let's climb on the jungle gym or
27:47I'm going down things like that that you
27:50know that makes sense to me because I it
27:52clarifies that I should be modeling
27:54language that maybe like this child
27:55would be using I doesn't sound natural
27:59and that makes a lot of sense to me
28:01versus when we're saying it's just
28:04that's that's what's like e like easy
28:06for them to scroll because I feel like
28:07they can scroll anything right yeah
28:10exactly just like just think about how
28:11you guys like we wouldn't say like I
28:14want gym we would say let's go to the
28:17gym or just like from an adult's
28:19perspective yeah I think that's a good
28:22point it's really hard it was really
28:24really hard for me to understand why
28:26like the let's phrases couldn't be over
28:28generalized like I want but now that
28:29you're explaining it more and like we
28:31want to make it as natural for them as
28:33possible that makes so much more sense
28:34and like it just clear clarifies it a
28:36lot so much easy to mitigate too yes
28:39great and then how can I or like as you
28:42know if I have a child with an AAC how
28:44can I help promote their language if
28:46they also have glp yeah so we are always
28:50looking to for the most robust system
28:52for them so this is a topic for another
28:55day maybe you can bring me back for AAC
28:57podcast
28:58um but we're going to use the most
29:01robust system and that typically looks
29:03like a Hightech AAC device or what what
29:06may look like to us an iPad yeah so it's
29:09self-generated you hit a button it's
29:11quick and easy and it tells it back to
29:13you yeah so by specifying or by um
29:18individualize it to a
29:20glp we would add their specific phrases
29:25that we targeting in a folder so there's
29:28no set of gestalts that I would have for
29:31each kid you call the folder my phrases
29:35yeah I'll typically label it my phrases
29:36or Johnny if their name was Johnny
29:39Johnny's phrases right um and we want to
29:41make sure that we have phrases that they
29:44are picking up on and making sure that
29:46they're able to self- Advocate request
29:49and negate mhm nice something else that
29:52like I think you and I we've we had a
29:54learner who used an AC device something
29:56else is like we don't only want want
29:58things that we're working on at this
29:59Center like we want to collaborate like
30:02um with the SLP and the parent to know
30:04what phrases to put in that folder for
30:06home so that they can be working on
30:07these like language phrases throughout
30:09their whole day yeah yeah he was a great
30:11friend I loved working with him in one
30:13of his um the sh phrases that we worked
30:15on I had a um under the reading folder
30:19he was a big brown bear guy um so he had
30:22one that let read brown bear so that
30:24would be an example of how it's
30:25individualized to our friend Le that's
30:29great so let's kind of dive into like
30:31our collaboration strategies what we can
30:33do as like gbas to help but did we T we
30:38talked about how to best support the
30:39learner right like if they have glp spas
30:42on that already we kind of talked about
30:43how she would do it in her sessions okay
30:46so how would we do it in our sessions
30:47yeah Translating that to us so how can
30:50we when sometimes it's hard for us to
30:52follow that same teaching style what
30:55things can we take from what you're
30:56suggesting into our session
30:58always consult with your SLP and they
31:01can let you know what stage the child is
31:04operating in cuz that's going to be a
31:05big test so what you need to work on
31:08like are we working on single words are
31:09we working on grammar or are we working
31:11or do these kids need more gals so
31:14always consult with your SLP to see what
31:16stage they're in and um I would just
31:20continue to model naturally within their
31:22environment so like I said my sessions
31:25are very laidback and child lad where
31:29I'm just modeling language naturally and
31:33commenting and describing maybe what
31:34we're doing right there's something you
31:36pointed out that you do to me is like
31:38you take uh data a little differently
31:41with a just all language processor right
31:43yes so when I'm targeting especially
31:45like so we kind of touched on I think a
31:48little bit on like labeling you don't
31:49want us to use those question phrase
31:52like the what like what is that um or
31:55even like leaving that open fill in the
31:57blank cuz usually a learner who's doing
31:59tacting or labeling I would say I see a
32:01and wait for them to tell me what they
32:03see cuz that's the skill I'm looking for
32:06um but you've noted that like we
32:07shouldn't be doing that until level
32:09three or like just all what is it yep
32:11stages three stage three okay I just
32:13wanted to make sure it was incorrect so
32:16but I still need to Target tacting yeah
32:18like
32:19unfortunately part of our job if you
32:21know we can't just jump around like we
32:24can't just focus on one domain so when
32:26we're writing our goals we do have to
32:28pull from like those labeling domains
32:30along with like the requesting domains
32:33and you know even some of those like
32:34fill-in domains I know that you said you
32:36wouldn't really want us to start working
32:38on only because that's just where our
32:40assessment tool and our like research
32:42has shown us what is is what we need to
32:45be doing right our research is a little
32:46different that's okay um so going back
32:49to like what I've done to kind of
32:51collaborate and modify my goals is I
32:54will um write my goal up as learner will
32:57I identify three or whatever number of
33:00targets items with a verbal model um so
33:05I'm counting in that prompt within my
33:06learner's goal and then I use an aess
33:08teaching approach so I will model the
33:11phrases for them without expectation in
33:14hopes that they imitate me and I will
33:15collect data on if they imitated the
33:17model or not and then I'll also have an
33:19incidental track um incidental teaching
33:21Tracker Where I won't be modeling I this
33:24is where I'm tracking if they are
33:26throughout their day labing on their own
33:29so I've modeled throughout the whole day
33:30it's a star it's a fish um it's a ball
33:34and now they walk past um a caterpillar
33:37like in the hallway and they on their
33:39own say it's a caterpillar um and I
33:41collect that as my Independent Learning
33:43opportunity because we still need to
33:44note those within like ABA sessions yeah
33:47that's amazing that's exactly how I do
33:48it too and like that's that would be an
33:50example of a mitigation mitigating it's
33:53uh that makes sense nice all right are
33:56there any other tips that would have for
33:58us just always accepting all forms of
34:01communication presuming competence like
34:04presuming that the child knows knows
34:07what they're doing and knows how to say
34:09this and has that capability um as well
34:12as providing like modeling naturally
34:15within their environment I think
34:17something that we um kind of touched on
34:19like in our like just work life that I
34:22kind of wanted to touch on today is the
34:23difference between a prompt within
34:26speech and a
34:29so this is something that I struggled
34:31with with not being in the Ava field
34:33pleas expl before we get into it like or
34:36before like we were like we were just
34:38talking let's just share that story is
34:40you kept saying like well that's like
34:42you're prompting too much you're
34:43prompting you're over prompting and we
34:46sat there and we like we don't get it
34:48like we're just giving an instruction
34:49whereas like we see what you're doing as
34:51a prompt we're like but wait you're
34:52prompting why can't we prompt so the big
34:55thing was what you were considering our
34:57prompt that was always the instruction
34:59especially for those like labeling goals
35:01that we have we were going what is it
35:04and we were waiting for a response you
35:06guys were thinking like that what is it
35:09was the prompt whereas we were just
35:11thinking that's an instruction we don't
35:13get why they keep saying it's like we're
35:14prompting them yeah whereas like I
35:17wouldn't say that and I would just model
35:18the whole phrase like yeah so I guess
35:21that was like it was a little bit tricky
35:22so like we can prompt um just use that
35:25model prompt and avoid fill in the blank
35:27phrases um under the like uh guidance
35:31and advice of your SLP make sure you're
35:33collaborating we don't want to do that
35:34because they that will get them stuck in
35:37that stage one they're not we're not at
35:38the single word level yet yeah and you
35:40briefly like minimally touched on stuck
35:42single words so can you touch on that a
35:44little bit more detailed what does that
35:45look like and what is it yeah so stuck
35:47single words are would be in stage one
35:49so I like to use the example I don't
35:51know if I've said this or if the kids
35:53are at the zoo and they point and label
35:56lion right there's really no meaning to
35:59that because there's really not a line
36:00in the picture but they're like
36:01associating that it's at the zoo okay
36:04versus when we get to stage three and
36:06they point to a lion and say lion that's
36:10more meaningful they're attaching that
36:11meaning to the word okay yeah so stage
36:14one they're just not there yet yeah and
36:17what you would say is like to avoid
36:19those questions right yes yes that's
36:21another great tip too thank you for
36:22reminding me to decrease the amount of
36:24questions that we ask feel like it's so
36:26hard for us it's hard we that's one of
36:29our goals so we're like how many how
36:31often can we provide this but
36:33remembering maybe like setting a
36:34criteria for how many times you do it
36:36and the rest of a session just modeling
36:39that like we see it lying and I still
36:40catch myself doing that in my sessions
36:43too like I'm still learning as well and
36:45trying to catch myself too like oh we we
36:46got to reduce our questions let's just
36:48model or even sometimes I'll just having
36:51a silent session like I'll spend like
36:54five minutes just not saying anything
36:56and just listening and writing down what
36:58my kiddo is saying right that goes a
37:00long way as well right before we get
37:02into our next um little topic our third
37:05code word is going to be collaborate
37:08nice all right so question so I want to
37:13kind of like not really question I kind
37:14of want to start talking about how we
37:16can modify our goals to best like fit a
37:19glp learner and if you feel like that's
37:22okay yeah maybe give an example yes so
37:26what are you thinking with your goals
37:28like are we trying to avoid the fill in
37:31the blank phrases y so I'm trying to
37:33teach an introver verbal and right now
37:36you know like the VB map that one goal
37:38is like fills in simple phrases like 10
37:41simple phrases so like Ready set go you
37:43would probably say don't work on that
37:45right but you know we have to so now
37:47what do we do yeah the whole phrase
37:50Ready set go like the arless yeah I so
37:53did we touch on that yet a little bit of
37:55aess so utilizing that aess teaching
37:57approach um has been really beneficial
37:58in my sessions um and I know not
38:00everyone can do that so with a grain of
38:02salt sometimes as like different
38:04disciplines we might have to like agree
38:06to disagree yes exactly and but I think
38:09what we should take away and the key
38:11thing that we should keep in mind is
38:12like modifying when we can so utilizing
38:15as many approaches as like at Morgan or
38:17the SLP will be recommending to me I'm
38:19still modeling I'm still providing those
38:20opportunities that she wants but I still
38:22have to do what is required of me and I
38:25know I don't want to like um delay the
38:28child's like acquisition of language but
38:31I think that there's a way that we could
38:32do both right and you know we have two
38:35different lenses um the way that we look
38:38at things like you said we're going to
38:39agree to disagree but I feel like we can
38:40all agree on we just want to best
38:43support our clients yeah that's all that
38:45we care about that's great so wrap up I
38:48kind of go over our key learning things
38:50that we learned do you want to start yes
38:53maybe let me think about it give me
38:56like I a lot about um more of your
38:59guys's terminology and I really like the
39:02idea about taking ABC data cuz I think
39:04that's going to be really crucial in
39:06helping support our clients best because
39:08you guys are with the kids way more than
39:10I am unfortunately we're only able to
39:12see them maybe a couple times a week for
39:1430 minutes where you're with them all
39:17day all week um so that's going to be
39:19really crucial in having actually actual
39:22data on there where we can do that
39:23detective work and discover that meaning
39:25of the phrase we can best support them I
39:27feel like I learned that we should just
39:30you know take that time model model
39:32model and for like accept all forms of
39:34communication yeah kind of going off of
39:37that I think something that I really
39:38learned and in time with working with so
39:40many slps is to not question like we
39:44shouldn't be quizzing the child all day
39:47every day like let them show us what
39:49they like what skills they have yeah and
39:51give them the teaching moments you know
39:53like model stuff that sort yeah so while
39:55we're modeling yeah I love that awesome
39:58well Morgan we would love to have you
39:59back please come back episode thanks for
40:03having me I need time and for everyone
40:05else watching we'll see you guys later
40:07talk to you that was
40:10bad that was not the right word thanks
40:13for having me oh my God all right guys
40:15thank you so much for listening please
40:17don't forget to like And subscribe and
40:18if you want your ceu credits go to our
40:20website at Blossom children center.com
40:22talk to you later see you

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