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EP:7 Who Watches the Watchers? Intelligence Agency Overreach — Transcript

by Darryl Cooper & Scott Horton - Provoked · 14,763 words · 2,069 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Heat.
0:13Heat.
0:14[Applause]
0:21[Applause]
0:24[Music]
0:31Hey, welcome to the show. I'm Scott from
0:34the things and he's Daryl from some
0:36other stuff. How you doing, man?
0:38>> Doing all right. I just got out of a
0:40three-hour visit with the dentist, but
0:42uh I'm not doing too bad, dude. I got to
0:44say, like I know your thing is anti-war
0:46and my thing's kind of become anti-war,
0:49too. That intro makes me want to go
0:51start a war.
0:53>> It's a hell of a war. Uh intro. Listen,
0:56I um I told my buddy Josh to write us a
0:59new song, which he did, but he's waiting
1:01on the guy to do the drums, so it'll be
1:04a little bit different.
1:05>> All right. Nothing wrong with wanting to
1:07start a war.
1:07>> See about the intro. I got a real good
1:09intro guy, too, or a couple of them. So,
1:11we're going to see.
1:13>> We got a good start, but we're gonna I
1:15think we're going to end up changing it
1:16up a little bit. It's a little too
1:17intense for my tone. My my idea of the
1:21show is really just more you and me
1:23shooting this [ __ ] A little less
1:24intense though. You know, the subject
1:26matters important stuff. But
1:29>> yeah, speaking of
1:30>> beat there reminds me more of like
1:31breaking news where this is more like,
1:34man, remember that one thing I'm still
1:36mad about.
1:37>> Yeah.
1:38>> Anyway,
1:39>> uh speaking of uh subject matter, what
1:41are we talking about? Well, so first of
1:44all, we got to talk about the great Ron
1:45Paul, the greatest American who ever
1:47lived and is still alive and is turning
1:4990. And we're celebrating his birthday
1:51this weekend in Lake Jackson. And so me
1:53and Dave Smith and Keith Knight and Dan
1:55Sanchez and of course Tom Woods and, you
2:00know, all kinds of great libertarians,
2:02Josie, the redheaded libertarian, and
2:04I'm sure Clint Russell is going to be
2:05there. Dan Mcnite from Brur Troops Home
2:07us. And you know, a bunch of people are
2:09going to be there celebrating good old
2:10Ron and his birthday and eating barbecue
2:12like we like to do. And it reminds me
2:14about how 20 years ago I caught the tail
2:17in just, you know, you picture that
2:19hurricane, those those arms. I caught
2:22the tail of one of those arms on the way
2:23home from Hurricane Katrina on the way
2:25home from Ron Paul's birthday and damn
2:28near drown in my little green truck,
2:30man, trying to make it home down 71
2:32there. Um while then you know Katrina
2:35got hit hard and and that was uh right
2:38after you know the Cindy Shian Camp
2:39Casey thing was going on at that time
2:41and all that. So finally confidence in
2:44Bush broke after five days of not doing
2:47a damn thing to help the people in New
2:49Orleans and people were like wait a
2:50minute this guy might not be the most
2:53competent administrator in world history
2:56after all. So that was kind of a big
2:59deal. Um, but yeah, so I love Ron and uh
3:02he really is the very best of us and so
3:04we're all going to celebrate that and do
3:06some live stream podcasts and hang out
3:08and give a little five minute speeches
3:09and have a good time. So that's
3:12>> a great crew, man. Yeah,
3:14>> standing room only, I guess, if people
3:15want to show up and like look through
3:17the open doorway. I think they're sold
3:18out. But um yeah, that should be fun.
3:21And then I
3:24as somebody who like you know like you
3:25was like on the raw Ron Paul train in
3:27'08 in 2012.
3:30Like it's so it's so nice to see like
3:33kind of what he's become in the culture.
3:35You know, he definitely did not sort of
3:37show up and then fade away. I mean, as
3:39you know, he got older, so his political
3:40career came to an end, but he's just
3:42universally admired now pretty much. I
3:45mean, they tried to dismiss him, insult
3:46him, everything they could. And in the
3:49end, I mean, he's if you took a poll,
3:52I'll bet you of even like MAGA people,
3:54he'd probably stand up to Trump in terms
3:56of approval. I mean, he's just
3:57universally admired. Even people on the
3:59left, Democrats and stuff, even they
4:01like him. Everybody likes him and they
4:02should. And I'm glad he he got to he got
4:04to live long enough to kind of see that
4:06vindication in the culture, you know?
4:08It's awesome.
4:09>> Yeah.
4:09>> Gives me a little bit of faith.
4:11>> And look, I mean, anybody Oh, no. Daryl
4:14just turned into a JPEG again. Oh, there
4:16he is. Hey. Uh, yeah. No, you're right.
4:19And look, I mean, there's a reason why.
4:21I mean, check the archive. 555 articles
4:23or so there at anti-war.com/paul
4:26dating back to the 1990s talking about
4:28Mr. President Clinton, we should not be
4:30doing this. This is the kind of thing
4:31that's going to cause terrorism against
4:33the United States. Come home right now.
4:36You know, all this time his book, a
4:37foreign policy of freedom is all like
4:39concerns his or much of it concerns his
4:41first term in Congress or first terms um
4:44in the 70s and 80s before he went back
4:46to be a baby doctor for a while and then
4:48finally came back in 97. And there he is
4:50warning Reagan about going into Lebanon.
4:52Don't do this, Mr. President. And then
4:55now that we're there, get our Marines
4:57out of there before something bad
4:59happens, Mr. President. And then see, I
5:01told you something bad was going to
5:03happen. Now get them out of there, Mr.
5:04President. And then congratulations, Mr.
5:07President, on finally doing the right
5:08thing and not doubling down on the war
5:10in Lebanon, but instead getting the hell
5:12out of there instead of making things
5:14much worse and all that. And that's the
5:15kind of guy Ron Paul is. And dating back
5:17to those times. And even when you could
5:19tell he's more right-wing and more cold
5:21warrior when it comes to China and
5:23Russia back then, his prescription is
5:25always non-interventionism. Shore up
5:28freedom and prosperity here. That'll
5:29show those commies. And he's just, man,
5:31he's always so good. I love him, man.
5:33And honestly, like the only things where
5:35I ever disagreed with him things were
5:37like he was more conservative than me on
5:39immigration. Well, yeah, but that's cuz
5:40he was right and I was wrong, of course.
5:43You know, he's absolutely, you know, a
5:45doctor, not a lawyer. great on COVID
5:47from the very beginning. What they say
5:49is the infection rate and the fatality
5:51rate and whatever. Let me set these
5:52statistics straight for you. Okay? Let
5:54me tell you how a virus works. Okay?
5:56Blah blah blah blah. Perfect. From the
5:57very beginning. You go check his record
5:59from the beginning of 20. Um with no
6:02flaws, right? With no error. From the
6:04very beginning of that from on
6:05everything. On everything. Check his
6:07archives at lrockwell.com and of course
6:09at the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and
6:11Prosperity. But you know the archives at
6:13LRC and anti-war.com go way back to the
6:1590s. And I says, "Dude, you can't beat
6:17that. You absolutely can't beat that."
6:19And by the way, on the personal level,
6:21like the reason the guy is charming is
6:23because he's not at all like a charming
6:26guy. He's like, real legitimately
6:31charming in his just decency. Still
6:33married to his high school sweetheart
6:35since they were 16 years old. Um, and
6:38with no scandal or hint of that
6:39whatsoever, deliver 4,000 babies and
6:43just has he's just a country doctor who
6:46understands Lud Gisa's economics and and
6:51you know his own you know Rothbartian
6:53foreign policy and and you know that
6:55anti-government spirit. One of the first
6:57things I ever heard of him was on
6:58Washington Journal. Well, the first
7:00thing I ever heard of him was him
7:01accusing George Bush of selling chemical
7:03weapons to Saddam Hussein. think
7:05probably the second thing I ever heard
7:06of him was on Washington Journal. They
7:08said, "Man, guys like you blew up
7:10Oklahoma or whatever. People who are
7:12anti-government blew up Oklahoma." He my
7:14constituents are a lot more afraid of
7:16getting blown up by the government like
7:18what happened at Waco. And they freaked
7:20out. But he and he wasn't being a tough
7:22guy. He was just saying, "I have
7:25paintings of Ron in the background. I
7:27have a bust of I have two busts of Dr.
7:29Paul on my bookshelf behind me." Um,
7:32>> you know, he you talk about him being
7:33right about all of these things from
7:35COVID back to Beirut and he's just a
7:38shining example of how, you know, if you
7:41start with the right first principles,
7:43it's easy to be right on almost
7:45everything, you know, and he and he's
7:46just he doesn't deviate and he, you
7:48know, he he he sticks with that. And you
7:50know, I think also it's that just his
7:53his he's very gracious. You know, it
7:55would have been a different experience,
7:57maybe more satisfying to you and me and
7:59a lot of people, but I think probably
8:01would not have gotten the long-term
8:02traction that it did if he had come out
8:04in that '08 election in 2012 and was
8:07just breathing fire on Bush is a war
8:10criminal and we need to just all that
8:12kind of stuff. it would not have it
8:13really would not have resonated in that
8:15environment with the Republican audience
8:17or even conservativeleaning people who
8:19weren't necessarily Republican, but he
8:21wasn't that type, you know, like you
8:22said, like uh he might say, "I told you
8:24so," but it's really to say, "Look, we
8:27knew this was going to happen. We knew
8:29this was coming." It's not to be like,
8:30"Nah, nah, I told you so." And he just
8:33doesn't do that. He's very gracious and
8:34and it's just, you know, you don't want
8:37to confuse the man and the message too
8:38much, but in this case, like, you know,
8:40the two that both of them are just
8:42exemplary. Really admire him.
8:44>> Exactly. Yeah. He does the message a lot
8:46of justice, you know what I mean, by
8:48being the
8:49>> Yeah.
8:49>> the leading guy standing behind it.
8:52>> Um, so anyway, that's great. And we got
8:54to always mention, I mean, I I would
8:55hasten to mention, maybe people don't
8:57know this well enough, but of course,
8:58you know, from the Liberty Report,
8:59everybody knows that Ron's co-host is
9:02the great Daniel McAdams, who's the
9:04director of the Ron Paul Institute for
9:05Peace and Prosperity. And he gets a lot
9:08of credit for being, you know, he was
9:09Ron Paul's foreign policy adviser from
9:12at least like 2000,
9:14maybe even 99. I'm not sure if it was
9:16after Kosovo or before, but he's been,
9:20you know, obviously extremely reliable
9:23for Ron to work with on foreign policy
9:26this whole time. So if you ask him, I
9:28mean, read his articles at anti-war.com.
9:29It's all substantive stuff. This is not
9:31ideological
9:33like, you know, by the the Austrian
9:36axiom deductive principle of
9:39praxiological whatever. No, no, no. all
9:41the details about everything that's
9:42going on everywhere. Whether we're
9:44talking about North Korea's nuclear
9:46program or the latest from Gaza or
9:48whatever it is, he's always 100% on it
9:50and sets a really great example in that
9:52way, too. And and Dan gets a lot of
9:55credit for that as well.
9:56>> Yeah. Speaking of presidential candidate
9:59uh foreign policy adviserss, I told you
10:01that Oh, I didn't I don't think I told
10:03you who it was that invited me, but it
10:05was RFK Jr.'s
10:07foreign policy adviser uh invited me to
10:09go on a trip to Damascus and meet uh
10:12Alshara.
10:14>> Unbelievable. And uh um the
10:19the funny thing is universally my wife,
10:22everybody that loves me,
10:24>> I mean this is a guy, former ISIS, quote
10:26unquote former quote unquote former
10:28al-Qaeda and Iraq, now the president of
10:31Syria, overseeing butchery after
10:33butchery, you know, in that country
10:34that's been happening since the
10:35takeover. And universally, everybody
10:38that cares about me said, "No, no, no,
10:39no, no. Don't go." Oh, and I said,
10:40"Well, I expected that because the
10:43Israelis might kill you." And they were
10:45dead serious, dude.
10:47>> I mean, hell, even if al Qaeda kills
10:49you, it might be because the Israelis
10:50asked them to. You know what I mean?
10:52Hey, this guy, he's not a friend of
10:55ours. See if you can maybe, you know,
10:57sleep them with the fishes there.
10:59>> Yeah. You know, the serious situation
11:02like I
11:03I'm trying to be as
11:05>> That was just such horrible grammar
11:07there. I apologize to every go ahead.
11:10>> I I I don't want to suck us too much
11:12down this rabbit hole. I know we got a
11:13different topic in mind, but um
11:14>> yeah,
11:15>> the uh you know, the serious situation
11:18like I'm trying to be as open-minded as
11:20possible in the sense of
11:22you know, look, there's obviously like
11:24just the hardcore Zionist types who just
11:26want to see that country destroyed and
11:28in chaos so that they can't mount a
11:30threat to Israel and and all that kind
11:32of stuff. I think there are
11:34well-intentioned generally
11:36well-intentioned people in in the US
11:38government, not certainly not all of
11:41them, but there are those people who
11:43they just look at the situation as, you
11:45know, the that war, that civil war was
11:48never ever going to after everything
11:50that had happened and all of the hatred
11:53that had built up against Assad over the
11:55course of that war, which of course we
11:57had a huge hand in prolonging and
11:59intensifying, don't get me wrong, on any
12:01of that. um that there was just there
12:04was never going to be peace in that
12:05country as long as Assad was there and
12:07Assad wasn't leaving voluntarily. And
12:11whether we like it or not or anybody
12:12likes it or not, this group of people is
12:15the only force around that that had you
12:19the numbers, the the um the military
12:23capability, everything else to go in and
12:25actually take the country. And then once
12:28that happened,
12:30you know,
12:32like the way that I've had it explained
12:33to me by people who are not necessarily
12:35sympathetic, uh, but who are who are
12:38kind of taking this as facts on the
12:40ground and that we just have to work
12:42with and deal with and they're trying to
12:44do that in good faith is that, you know,
12:46they they tell me, they think, and they
12:49could be totally wrong about this, but
12:50they're not lying to me. I know these
12:51people pretty well, so they might be
12:53wrong. They're not lying. um they think
12:56that uh that that Alshara is is by no
13:00means a moderate but um a pragmatist and
13:04he's somebody who uh wants to put Syria
13:07back together and be in charge of it but
13:10because of just the loose nature of the
13:12forces that he led and the outside
13:14interference by Turkey and you know
13:17everybody else uh with those forces he
13:20does not have full control by like
13:23barely has any control really over all
13:25the guys with guns in his country. And
13:28so he's walking this kind of tight rope
13:31where uh you know on one hand look you
13:35have to make certain compromises if
13:37you're going to figure out how to keep
13:39the trains running if they even have any
13:41of those left in Syria. But just get the
13:42water running, make the sewers work,
13:44collect the garbage, all that. I mean
13:46the the daily tasks of governing really
13:48the only people who know how to do any
13:50of that stuff at least at a national
13:52level or provincial level were probably
13:56former members of the Assad government.
13:58And so, you know, do you have to like
14:01walk this this sort of tight rope if
14:03you're if you're him between seeming to
14:05compromise too much maybe with the for
14:08members of the of the former regime or
14:10officials or even employees of the
14:11former regime or being uh you know
14:15because you know that you know America
14:17could snap their fingers like there's a
14:19lot of Israel could snap their fingers
14:21and you get vaporized in an instant uh
14:23if they if they uh you know decide they
14:26don't like you anymore. So, you know,
14:28you have to kind of reach out to the
14:30Alawite population, kind of reach out to
14:32the Drews population and so forth. But
14:34then the other side of that of that uh
14:37high uh tightroppe tightroppe is um he's
14:42got these guys, he's got these like real
14:44deal hardcore head chopping jihadists
14:46who have all the guns and who brought
14:48him to power. And if they think that,
14:50you know, he's being he's being too
14:52accommodating or he's not going hard
14:54enough and not turning Syria into enough
14:56of an Islamic Republic, you know, he
14:58could end up in his own Gaddafi video,
15:00which given his past, you know, might be
15:03uh might be, you know, poetic justice.
15:05But, you know, in terms of like I guess
15:08I guess here's the thing, and I'll stop
15:09ranting, but um and again, don't get me
15:12wrong, you and I agree on this. Most of
15:15the people out there who were listening,
15:16like we all agree on this situation. I'm
15:18just kind of playing around with the
15:20with the situation as it stands. Um, you
15:24know, one thing I do see uh is that and
15:27this is mostly with like leftwing
15:28anti-war people, although you see it on
15:30the right sometimes now too, is
15:33you know, it's easy to be so against US
15:37intervention and Israeli belligerance
15:40and all these things to the point that
15:42you're almost rooting for the axis of
15:45resistance, right? And I understand that
15:48like I understand the desire like it's
15:51just like with Russia and Ukraine right
15:53now like you feel like the empire needs
15:55to get checked you know the empire needs
15:58to like know that there's a limit out
16:00there to what it can achieve and that
16:02it's going to hit its head against the
16:03wall if it goes too far. The problem is
16:05like that that I see is like, you know,
16:09people
16:13even if the regime that's in Syria right
16:16now, and I don't think this is going to
16:17happen by any means, for a number of
16:19reasons, but um even if it was the best
16:23chance for that country to be put back
16:25together and become a non-failed state,
16:27I think there's a lot of people see out
16:29there who like they don't they almost
16:31don't it's not that they don't want
16:33that, but that's a secondary
16:35consideration to Israel getting theirs,
16:38you know, and the resistance axis
16:41showing, you know, the empire that like
16:43they're not going to back down and all
16:44that. And it's, you know, it's easy to
16:47get caught up in that. And I totally I
16:48sympathize with with that tendency. But
16:51we do have to kind of watch out for that
16:52because the goal should be that like all
16:54of the normal people in Syria, which is
16:56most of the people there, can wake up
16:58tomorrow and not worry that their kids
16:59are going to get killed or raped or, you
17:02know, that a mob's going to come destroy
17:03their village. Like that's what we all
17:05want. That's the point, you know. And um
17:07anyway, rant over. I just uh yeah, I've
17:10been thinking about it a lot lately. So
17:12>> yeah. Well, look, um, first of all, this
17:16is our brand new book, our 17th book
17:19just hit like within the last couple of
17:22hours here. The Libertarian Institute's
17:2417th book. It's by the absolutely heroic
17:28William Van Wagon, who is an incredible
17:31investigative journalist. He's been
17:32writing deep, deep dives on Obama's
17:36dirty war in Syria for years for us at
17:39the institute. And this his book, Long
17:42Promised, is finally unleashed. And it's
17:46the CIA's covert war uh creative chaos,
17:50the CIA's covert war to uh I'm sorry,
17:52what was it? Overthrow uh God, I I can't
17:55see it from here with my old eyes. Uh to
17:58overan government.
18:00>> Yeah, there you go. So, this just hit
18:01it's on Amazon.com right now. You'll be
18:03able to find a link from the Libertarian
18:05Institute very soon. And there's just
18:07nobody better on this than William Van
18:09Wagon. And to explain, and you know,
18:12when you say the axis of resistance,
18:13what that really is, it's the Shiites
18:15plus Hamas, right? But that's what it
18:18is. And and the Alawites were very close
18:20to the Shiites. And some consider, you
18:22know, their group to be kind of a
18:23offshoot or like a combination of
18:27whatever, but close enough. And they
18:29were tied to Thrron. That's the
18:31important part. And now that's over
18:33forever. Alawites aren't taking Damascus
18:36back. I mean, it's a supermajority Sunni
18:38Arab country anyway. So, the relative
18:41extremism of the dictator or president
18:45going forward remains to be determined.
18:48As you say, this guy is a bin Laden,
18:50leader of the suicide bomber brigades
18:51with John Brennan, right? So, we can
18:54expect the worst from him or as you said
18:56is what I've been saying since he took
18:57over. He's really going to cowtow to the
19:00US and Israel that bad. his own guys are
19:02going to cut his head off and replace
19:03him sooner or later anyway. So, they
19:05have really made a deal with the devil
19:07here. I mean, this guy,
19:09>> look, he's clearly been to Turkish
19:11intelligence finishing school so that
19:13he's not, they told him, stop cutting
19:15people's heads off and doing suicide
19:17attacks, okay? We can't spin that. So,
19:19just knock off that, right? So, in other
19:22words, don't throw gays off the roof and
19:24don't look like Baghdaddy and we'll let
19:28you live. we'll let you take over and
19:29we'll even back you just don't be a
19:32Shiite. And that's the deal, right? And
19:34so they're willing to tolerate him. But
19:36I mean to me it just portends chaos.
19:38There's no way around it. Like we're
19:39just in the in between time before
19:41things get much worse over there. And
19:43it's of course already you've had all
19:45kinds of Alawites and Christians being
19:47slaughtered as well as the Drews which
19:49gives the Israelis an excuse to
19:52intervene and take even more of the
19:54southern part of the country in the name
19:55of protecting the Drews there. It's just
19:57a disaster, you know. Um, not that I
20:01care at all. I don't sympathize at all
20:03with the axis of resistance. I don't
20:05whatever. I'm against the US government
20:07doing things, but it doesn't put me on
20:09the other side of the thing. But I'm
20:11saying it's a disaster just because
20:13these are guys who are sworn loyal to
20:14Bin Laden and then Suahi which means
20:17that sooner or later potentially now
20:20later because they seem to be so
20:22cooperative with American intelligence
20:24at this time but they very well are
20:28likely to come back to bite us. We've
20:30seen this over and over again. Just
20:31because Bill Clinton backs jihadis in
20:33one place doesn't mean they won't turn
20:35around and hit us in another. And so,
20:37you know, these things happen and it's
20:39just and and honestly, man, we're about
20:41to talk about Russia Gate and I am so
20:44upset about Russia Gate still. It's like
20:45the Waco fire. I'm I'm not over I'm not
20:47going to be over it. And yet, I want
20:50Tulsi Gabber to simply turn over
20:52everything to justice and then get back
20:55to keeping bin Laden off of these
20:57shores. I want her and Joe Kent all day.
20:59I don't want them to wage war overseas
21:01and kill people. I am not saying that. I
21:03wrote a book about stop doing that. I'm
21:05not giving them that mandate, but
21:07keeping these guys off of our shores is
21:10the absolute highest responsibility.
21:12There's just nothing that can that
21:14should be taken from their attention to
21:17that one and only goal because there's
21:19nobody else threatens us in this world.
21:21Bin Laden suicide bombers. That's the
21:24threat.
21:25>> Yeah. Well, they, you know, there's the
21:28threat of of an attack. That's one
21:30threat, but in a way, it's that's almost
21:32the minor threat. You know, just like
21:34with 911, as tragic as it was, you know,
21:363,000 people killed, it was horrible.
21:40The the real threat was our reaction to
21:42it. You know, our predictable and
21:43predicted reaction to it. And for some,
21:46you know, for people who want to see
21:48>> uh an end to this to this style of
21:51foreign policy we've been we've been uh
21:53enacting for decades now. Another big
21:56terrorist attack. It wouldn't it doesn't
21:58I mean, you just you know how people are
22:00like when something like that happens.
22:02They can be people. You were having a
22:03conversation with them yesterday and
22:05they totally get it. They're totally
22:06down live through this. My
22:11>> some like real anti-government guys,
22:13some like real anti- new world order
22:15guys signed their son up for the army as
22:18soon as W. Bush got in there even before
22:20911. It's like, "Oh, everything's okay
22:22now." What
22:25I mean, it's just, man, it's amazing.
22:28And that's the real concern, you know,
22:29because I think I've always thought at
22:31least for many years going back to
22:33maybe, you know, the early years of the
22:34Syrian civil war that,
22:36>> you know, the real the real goal was not
22:40regime change in the sense that we did
22:42it in Iraq or something like that. The
22:44real goal was just to reduce that
22:46territory to chaos and fluctuating
22:49governments and and rival militias and
22:51sectarian factions because that just
22:53gives you a permanent excuse to go in
22:57there and do whatever you want like the
22:58Israelis have been doing every I mean
23:00that's just like a it's a perfect
23:01example. You have this guy who at least
23:04in his rhetoric, right, uh is talking
23:07about, and this is a remarkable thing
23:09when you really think about it, given
23:10his background and who supports him in
23:12that country and everything, but him
23:14going out publicly and saying he's
23:15willing to talk to the Israelis and all
23:17this, like you would think that they
23:19would really want to make sure that this
23:21guy, as long, you know, if he if he
23:24changes his tune, you can take care of
23:25it. But at least for now, you'd think
23:27they want to keep him around. But the
23:29first thing they do when they took power
23:30is just d blew up his defense ministry,
23:33blew up all his military equipment. I
23:35mean,
23:35>> sank his navy.
23:37>> Sank his navy. Yeah. And like, you know,
23:39certain things like if they think
23:40there's chemical weapon stores or if
23:41they're just heavy long range missiles
23:43or something, you know, maybe that's
23:45fine, whatever. But, you know, they
23:48they're destroying APCs and things that
23:50you need if you have a jihadist uprising
23:53and then you southwest of the country,
23:55south country or something. And so like
23:58you know it kind of just shows you that
24:00the goal here is chaos. The same thing
24:02they want for Iran. They don't want me
24:04to take over. They don't really think
24:06the sha is going to go back and be
24:07welcomed with roses in the streets. They
24:09just want it to be a failed state with
24:11Persians fighting Beluchi's fighting and
24:14everybody else just that's what they
24:16want.
24:16>> Daryl, remind me. I'm sorry because I do
24:19a lot of shows and I can't keep track
24:20anymore, man. But forgive me if if I'm
24:23being redundant. I'll stop. But did we
24:24talk about the O dead Yianan plan on the
24:26show last week or in one of these recent
24:28times?
24:29>> Okay, so O Dead Yan, I brought this up.
24:32Did I tell you that I did a 10-hour
24:34interview with Lex Freedman? That's
24:35going to come out in a couple weeks.
24:36He's got to edit some things together.
24:38But one thing is I told him, well, look,
24:40and one thing he did was he stopped and
24:41pulled up everything that I mentioned
24:43>> and then would read a little like the AI
24:45summary on Google. What is the O dead
24:47yin plan? It's ode ded y n o n and it's
24:51essentially like an insane paranoid
24:53schizophrenic lunatic ludnick adviser to
24:56Ariel Chiron and he wrote it in I'm
24:59pretty sure 81
25:01and the first premise of the thing
25:03>> so he was defense minister at the time
25:05Chiron
25:06>> God was he
25:08>> okay I had forgotten that it was that
25:10bad trauma base blocked that out I guess
25:14um he says listen man obviously The the
25:18Soviet communists are about to conquer
25:20the entire world
25:22and we have only one choice then which
25:24is to secure our regional dominance by
25:27smashing every Arab state into as many
25:29pieces the smallest pieces possible and
25:32to just so complete chaos. That's the
25:34only way we'll be able to survive in the
25:36new one world communism. And of course
25:38the Soviet Union cease to exist by the
25:40end of the decade. But whatever, man.
25:42Still sounds good. Way better than
25:43making peace as they put it. um land for
25:46a peace like they're being forced
25:48somehow to give up their own land as the
25:51price of peace rather than to stop
25:54stealing it which is actually kind of
25:57different but that was the way they
25:59looked at it was hey man you know what I
26:01mean it's like a a cut in the in the
26:03national government well we just meant a
26:05cut in the rate of future growth
26:07>> yeah you know
26:08>> or they say like uh you know they
26:09they'll make an announcement that
26:11inflation has been cut in half and
26:13people say great prices are going down.
26:15No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
26:17>> The rate of rise is
26:19>> Yeah. The rate of our expansion in the
26:22West Bank sometimes varies, but it never
26:24ends, of course. Um anyway, so um I
26:29think there's a lot of that going on and
26:30I need to go back actually Darl because
26:32I don't think I memorized this but there
26:35is at least one sentence hanging in it's
26:38either in the clean break or in coping
26:40with crumbling states
26:42where Worms says something like well and
26:46if that doesn't work at least there'll
26:48be smaller broken pieces you know
26:50something like that um I need to get
26:52that exact quote uh so that would be You
26:55know, Yanan echoed later in the clean
26:57break policy, which the clean break
26:58policy was it's going to be great. It's
27:00going to be easy. We're going to have
27:01our way, which and then I guess chaos
27:03was plan B or C, which is what we're
27:06seeing now. I mean, we're seeing these
27:09last couple or really, I mean, this last
27:12year and a half, two years, we've really
27:14seen the culmination of kind of decades
27:16of events, uh, you know, taking that
27:19that have been, I mean, you go back to
27:22the 60s and 70s, you know, the Ba'ist
27:25regimes, the the Egyptians before they
27:27made peace with Israel. I mean they were
27:29mortal enemies not only of Israel they
27:31were mortal enemies of all of the Gulf
27:32monarchies you know that they saw as
27:35standing in the way of this panarab
27:37dream that they had you know of course
27:39they all wanted to be in charge of the
27:40big panarab state but they all shared
27:42that at least ideologically but not the
27:44monarchies because the monarchies are
27:46like
27:47>> my family literally owns all of this
27:50land why would I join some Arab
27:52superstate now you know and um one by
27:56one I mean every single one of those
27:58secular dictatorships has been picked
28:00off and destroyed. And one thing you got
28:02to say, I mean, I this is like a this is
28:06a macob sort of admission, I guess, but
28:09you know, I was thinking the other day
28:10about uh Obama back in what two it was
28:142011, I guess, uh saying a couple times,
28:18Assad has to go, Assad must go.
28:20>> Yeah. And you go back to 2016, 2017, and
28:25it was looking like, wow, you know, I
28:28guess he's not going anywhere. The the
28:30Empire has to take a loss on that one.
28:32But you always got to remember, man,
28:34there's people here like behind the
28:36scenes who make a career out of this
28:37[ __ ] And they do not go to sleep when
28:40it, you know, when it when it fades from
28:42the news. They keep on it. And you know,
28:46it's one of those things that if you
28:48don't have a robust uh counter
28:51inelligence defense and just military uh
28:54defense and a stable enough
28:57government and and and civil society to
29:01uh to withstand that kind of pressure
29:03over the long term, you're just not
29:05going to make it once the the eye of
29:07Sauron turns on you, you know. And they
29:09thought they could do that to Russia and
29:10it's looking like they're probably not
29:11going to be able to do that which is not
29:13surprising to most of us. But um but you
29:16know that's how it goes. You know you
29:18you have
29:19uh we you know we kind of we kind of
29:22tell ourselves that um or we we used to
29:26tell ourselves this I guess we came out
29:28of the Gulf War you know like the the
29:29first Gulf War. And I mean, if you ask
29:33like I was talking to somebody a couple
29:35weeks ago, it might have been in a it
29:37might have been in a interview actually,
29:39but he brought up the Gulf War and he
29:41was like, "And what do we take? Do we
29:42even take any casualties?" And I was
29:44like, "Yeah, we took some, but that kind
29:46of that's how people think about it."
29:47Like it was like as if we took no
29:49casualties and we just went in there, we
29:51saved the day. You we don't even know if
29:54we killed any Iraqis. Like, you know,
29:56most people don't know. just we went in
29:58and just by our presence like the whole
30:00thing kind of melted away and we came
30:02away with this idea that like wow I
30:04guess the US military with all their
30:06fancy new technology and you know
30:08smartguided bombs everything else we can
30:10just absolutely do anything with the US
30:12military it's this allpurpose tool that
30:14we can just apply at will anywhere in
30:16the world for any problem that that we
30:18find and we thought that and we tried it
30:21and it's failed for 25 years um and you
30:25know now I you know what But what I what
30:28I really hate and we should get into
30:29this like another time because like you
30:33know everybody kind of agrees now that
30:36nuclear weapons like you know maybe it's
30:38not like a a war crime on the level of
30:41biological and chemical weapons just
30:43because if things go nuclear then we're
30:45just at a whole we're in a whole new
30:47world like that day. But like everybody
30:49kind of agrees, chemical, biological
30:51weapons, that is just off limits. And if
30:53you do that, you are a rogue regime and
30:56uh have no standing, no legitimacy,
30:58etc., etc. I really think we need to
31:00apply that same mentality to this to to
31:04what has really become like our chief
31:06foreign policy tool it seems like over
31:08the last several decades, which is, you
31:10know, think about I I was listening to
31:12somebody give an interview. I can't um
31:15somebody gave an interview who uh she
31:17lived in the United States but her
31:19family lived in Aleppo when they were
31:21taken over by all the like not this last
31:23time but like when they were occupied by
31:25the jihadists for a while and talking
31:28about how you know they would go outside
31:31and they can't read the spray paint
31:33writing on the walls because it's
31:35different languages because the
31:36Chetchins own those blocks and the
31:39Afghans own those blocks and the Syrians
31:41own those and it's just a bunch of gang
31:43gang territory. They would get into gang
31:45machine gun battles in the streets. And
31:47these are all a bunch of, you know,
31:5020-year-old psychopaths from the slums
31:52of Karach or wherever, you know, from
31:55the slums of Brussels just put out a
31:58call like and the way they did it too,
32:00right? Think of how I know we're
32:03probably not wanting to get like a a
32:04rated R thing on this, but think about
32:06how [ __ ] evil this is, dude. To to to
32:09put out the kind of ISIS propaganda that
32:12was coming out, right? I saw a video. I
32:14don't know how many of them you saw. I
32:15didn't see very many of them, but I saw
32:16a couple. And there was one where they
32:19had a bunch of prisoners chained up to
32:21broken down carnival rides and they had
32:23kids executing them on the carnival
32:25rides, right? Just cartoonishly evil.
32:29So, you put those videos out as a
32:31recruiting tool and who do you think
32:33you're going to get? You're going to get
32:34the craziest dudes in the world who are
32:37all going to come to participate in
32:39this. And so, we we do that. we like,
32:42you know, uh create this situation where
32:45that call is being put out and these
32:47people are flooding into the country
32:49with no like military leadership or
32:52discipline, no no nothing. It's just a
32:54bunch of crazy psychopaths with guns
32:56running around this country. And like
32:58they would talk about how like you're
32:59imagine you're in Aleppo and you're in
33:01that situation and you're in there with
33:04your wife and your two daughters and
33:06there's just dudes, you know, uh, hopped
33:09up on Capagon just going by firing their
33:12guns in the air. You're just praying
33:13they don't come into your house because
33:15you know what happens if they do and you
33:17it's your only option at that point is
33:19decide whether you're going to die over
33:21it or not, you know, and just an awful
33:24disgusting thing to do to another
33:27country. I don't care who what the
33:28government did or what the people did to
33:30to to just take a bunch of undisiplined
33:34no military governorship uh just young
33:37psychos and give them guns and send them
33:39into a place and say go destroy that
33:41place and take down the government. You
33:43know like I I uh I I heard somebody
33:46describe Syria this way. I think it's a
33:48great way to describe it and then I'll
33:50stop. um is they said, "Imagine if like
33:52Russia or China got together with like
33:55the KKK,
33:58neo-Nazi factions, all the craziest
34:01hardcore right-wing people like in the
34:03US who, you know, are hiding in the
34:04shadows or whatever, and they just load
34:06them up with heavy weapons and provide
34:09intelligence and and uh you know, middle
34:12level leadership by bringing other
34:13people in from other places that have
34:15already kind of done this kind of thing
34:16before." and we say and they were to say
34:17go march on Washington and take down the
34:19US government and on their way to
34:21Washington they just stopped by in every
34:23town and city and killed all the Jews
34:25and blacks and everything else. That's
34:27what we did to Syria and it's crazy and
34:30it's evil and I I really hope that one
34:32day that that tactic that way of waging
34:36war again against a country is really
34:38looked at the same way we look at
34:40biological weapons because it's just
34:41awful.
34:42>> Yeah. No, look u you couldn't be more
34:45right about it. Normally I would have
34:46just said, "Yeah, everybody get enough
34:47already." But even better, get it just
34:50hit. I mean, two today, this this
34:52evening around dinner time, it hit.
34:54Creative Chaos by William Van Wagon.
34:56Brand new, hot out. He really deserves
34:58the recognition and the boost for all
35:00you book readers out there. Is such an
35:03important book. I've I'm the publisher
35:05of The Thing, so I've read it and um and
35:08I've supported his work for a very long
35:10time. He is such a great guy. He's been
35:12kidnapped by al Qaeda for real, dude. He
35:15has done long-term investigative
35:17journalism, including in Iraq and in
35:20Syria, camping out with the Yazidis and
35:22getting the absolutely the real story on
35:25what happened here, man. And believe me,
35:28I was good on Syria years before they
35:30even launched the thing. And I know what
35:32from who was good on it and who was not,
35:35right? And and yeah, man, this is the
35:38best that you can get on the origins.
35:40It's it's not the whole war, but it's
35:42how it all started and how it was the US
35:45government, of course, with our NATO
35:46allies, Britain and especially France,
35:48and then of course the GCC
35:51um and Israel and Turkey. And it was all
35:53about trying to, as I say every day of
35:56my life, I guess W. Bush put the
35:59Ayatollah up two pegs in Baghdad. So now
36:02he had to take him down a peg in
36:04Damascus. That's what it was all about.
36:06That's what the redirection was all
36:07about. And that's the story I tell, you
36:10know, in the book and in the at the
36:12academy and all that. But, you know,
36:13even in my book, I I'm the very first to
36:15give credit to William Van Wagon and for
36:17doing so much great research and I
36:20cribbed from a lot of great journalists
36:22and I give them all credit, too. Uh, I
36:24read a lot of books about it and and I
36:26read a lot of journalism about it, but
36:28he is absolutely five-star, top-notch,
36:31as good as you could possibly get. I
36:32guarantee that. uh Joshua Landis and
36:35Charmaine Narwani and um Moon of
36:38Alabama, Bernard and Max Blumenthal and
36:41all of the best guys on Syria would tell
36:43you the very same thing that like this
36:45is as good as it gets is creative chaos
36:47brand new out but they've all read his
36:49stuff if you you know if you look him up
36:51at the Libertarian Institute you can
36:53read all his great writing there and
36:54when I say long form pieces I mean like
36:5650,000 words these are the kind of
36:58articles that he's been writing for me
37:00for years dude I mean it's just
37:02incredible stuff. Um, so and I do have
37:05the short version in enough already,
37:07including a lot on Israel's role in the
37:09thing and all that. So, here's a segue
37:12because, um, we want to talk about
37:14Russia Gate. We've been putting it off.
37:16Um, I almost want to just put it off
37:17more and talk about other things because
37:20I'm going to have Matt Taibbe on the
37:22show to tomorrow and he's just the best
37:24of the best and I still have not had a
37:27chance. I've read some articles about
37:29it, but I have not had a chance myself
37:31to do the deep dive on the annex to the
37:34Durham report or even the declassified
37:37version of the House investigation of
37:40the
37:40>> Yeah, let's let's do that next week.
37:42That's fine. I mean, I don't mind anyway
37:43because there's
37:44>> I'm really good on the background, but
37:46I'm not very good on the new
37:48developments. And it'd be better maybe
37:50to just really nail that down all the
37:51way, you know?
37:52>> Yeah. And you know, it's connected to
37:53this serious stuff for sure. I mean in
37:55the sense that
37:57>> you know if you think about it like
37:58there were
38:00>> there were I think probably probably
38:02three real purposes to Russia gate right
38:05to that whole effort that was put out
38:07there. One of course like the initial
38:09one maybe was to muddy the waters with
38:11regard to the DNC emails and and the
38:13Podesta emails because those were going
38:15to be so damning for Hillary Clinton if
38:17people just focused on what they did to
38:19Bernie Sanders. That was going to be a
38:20huge problem. Um, then it was to just
38:24the the the Trump focus was I don't you
38:26know I they knew we we're kind of
38:28finding out now that they knew from the
38:30beginning that Trump was not colluding
38:31with Russia. They knew from the
38:33beginning that Russia probably didn't
38:34even hack those emails. But if you can
38:38use that as an excuse to go through his
38:40whole life, talk to everybody he knows
38:43and everybody they know and put pressure
38:45on every single person that has the
38:47slightest little taxi cab medallion
38:50scandal or whatever else it is, threaten
38:52them all with prison, bankrupt them by
38:54bringing them in and making them pay
38:56hundreds of thousands of dollars to
38:57lawyers like they did with campaign
39:00volunteers, Michael Caputo. This dude
39:02was just a campaign volunteer and they I
39:05mean he had to sell his house because
39:07they just he had to pay lawyers hundreds
39:09of thousands of dollars. This was not
39:10some rich dude or anything. There were a
39:12ton of people in the administration who
39:15left the administration not because you
39:17know they were getting all kind of fed
39:19up with things. They were like, "Dude, I
39:20can't keep getting pulled in for these
39:22uh DOJ interviews. You know, this is
39:25like costing me hundreds of thousands of
39:27dollars. I can't afford it." And so they
39:28would leave. and it kept a lot of people
39:30from even joining the administration.
39:32And so I think that, you know, uh the
39:36the goal really um with the
39:39investigation part of it was really just
39:41them thinking that Trump, this guy, the
39:43grab him by the [ __ ] dude. Like this
39:45dude, give us all of his email, give
39:48give us all of his people around him.
39:50And like dude, by the time we're done
39:53piling up dirt on this guy that we're
39:55going to find, people aren't even going
39:57to remember Russia. like that's going to
39:59be like it's just a long and it's
40:01amazing to me actually that that turned
40:03out not to be the case and I don't know
40:04if that's just because Trump's lived his
40:06life in the tabloids so it's all in
40:08public anyway but the fact that they
40:11didn't I mean imagine like if they were
40:12to go through Hillary Clinton's whole
40:15life with the same fine tooth comb they
40:17did with Trump dude she'd be getting the
40:19electric chair you know what I mean and
40:22that's true of a lot of people and so
40:24he's relatively clean in that sense but
40:27then as it relates to this. You know, I
40:30think and this is probably why a lot of
40:31the deep state kind of went along with
40:33it as long as they did and as hardcore
40:35as they did.
40:36>> Um, is that because at first this was
40:39just a Clinton problem.
40:39>> Well, look, they FBI told CNN, "If we
40:43can't remove him through the 25th
40:44amendment, at least we can rein him in
40:47with this special counsel investigation
40:49>> and specifically specifically rein him
40:51in on Syria and Ukraine. Those were the
40:55two things that prevent implementing
40:56Minsk do most of all. Now hold on one
40:59second because
41:00>> two things. First of all, I wrote 75
41:02pages on Russia Gates. It's the longest
41:04chapter kind of subchapter chapter type
41:06section thing in provoke that I did. I
41:08debunked every single lie about Russian
41:11gate that I could possibly remember
41:12because I was terrified someone say, "Oh
41:14yeah, but what about this one?" and I'd
41:15miss it. But you just got me and I
41:17realized this a couple of weeks ago,
41:19too. I miss Caputo. I do not have a
41:22section on Caputo in my Russia gate
41:24section and curse me for that. Will you
41:26please tell us about him?
41:29>> I don't know a whole lot about him. I've
41:31talked to him a few times. Um I've
41:33mentioned him before in in articles and
41:36interviews and his story and just and
41:37sympathizing with him and he reached out
41:39and and just because he saw he saw or
41:41read something and um and said thanks
41:43and we kind of corresponded a bit. I
41:45don't know a lot about him just that he
41:46was uh he was just a I mean there was
41:48never even an accusation against this
41:50guy. There was never even an implication
41:52that he was accused of anything. This
41:54was purely just lawfare. This was taking
41:57this dude who is a normal guy. This is
41:59not some rich dude. You you know a lot
42:00of people for some reason think that
42:02like if you're working for a
42:03presidential campaign or something you
42:05got money to press. Not the case with a
42:06lot of these people. And he was a
42:07volunteer. Um and they just kept pulling
42:11them in and every time you do it. I
42:12mean, you got to hire good lawyers to go
42:14in there with you because, you know,
42:16they're really, really good at
42:18manipulating people and getting you to
42:19trip up and and contradict yourself. And
42:22if they're going for blood the way they
42:24were during the Russia gate thing, I
42:26mean, them tripping you up, uh, that
42:30could be a a jail sentence. I mean,
42:32that's that's where they were going.
42:33That's a perjury felony jail sentence.
42:35And so, you got to hire these lawyers.
42:37>> And it's just every time they call you
42:39in, it's 304 $50,000. do it again in
42:42three months. Do it again three months
42:44later. And they're doing this to regular
42:46people, campaign volunteers, you know,
42:48and it's just it it's one of those
42:51things that is just emblematic of how,
42:54you know, they are in their minds and
42:57they somebody as sanctimonious as Cam
42:59might even believe this about himself.
43:01Hillary doesn't believe it, but like
43:02Comey might that what he's really the
43:06patriot here. He's the one who's trying
43:08to step in and save the republic from
43:11itself. It's like, well, yeah, but you
43:13guys are going out and just destroying
43:15the lives of random campaign volunteers,
43:17American citizens, the people you're
43:19trying to protect, right? Yeah.
43:21>> And there's just no concern for that.
43:22They didn't care. They were just
43:23>> Oh, you're so right. And listen, as far
43:25as I know, I always sound like I'm
43:28probably spinning for these guys, like
43:29rationalizing their behavior in a way
43:31when I talk about how they rationalize
43:33their behavior. Just what you just said
43:34that they know that they're the Patriots
43:36here. So there's a great clip of John
43:39McLaclin who had been the acting
43:40director of the CIA and they asked him,
43:43"Oh, Trump says it was at a some think
43:46tank event. Trump says it's the deep
43:48state acting against him." And he laughs
43:51and he says, "Thank God for the deep
43:54state." And the whole audience laughs
43:56and applauds. And he says, "Now let me
43:58tell you something. The problem is not
44:01at Langley. It's not at the Hoover
44:04building here in DC and it's not at Fort
44:07me at his NSA headquarters. The problem
44:10is at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. So you
44:14could see how if Donald Trump was a
44:17manurian candidate, blackmailed slave of
44:19Vladimir Putin,
44:22then John McLaclin might have a point
44:24that these men are sworn to uphold the
44:26Constitution and protect it from all
44:28enemies, foreign and domestic. And so
44:30even though these are all three
44:32completely extra cononstitutional
44:35postreublic
44:37uh national security, you know, agencies
44:40of the government and they're coming at
44:43the president this way.
44:45Maybe they'd be heroes if it was all
44:48true, right? But it wasn't at all. They
44:51were the ones framing him. It was all
44:53just a giant hoax. and they were
44:54punching far above their weight when in
44:56fact he literally is the one and only
45:00elected member of the executive branch
45:02and the chief executive, the boss of
45:05those departments, the boss of them. And
45:08they just got no right whatsoever. And
45:11by, you know, January 20th, they should
45:13have just been saying, "Oh, well," and
45:14that's the way it goes. The people did
45:17elect him. And again, they knew they
45:18were lying. So, let me go back because I
45:20want to clarify something that you said
45:21that because about covering up for
45:23Hillary's emails, a big part of what was
45:25going on there was it was not covering
45:26up for the leaked emails that didn't
45:28come until later. It was covering up for
45:30the missing emails.
45:32>> Um, that they were already investigating
45:34the 30,000 emails that she had deleted
45:36from her own private server, which were
45:38obviously regarding her corruption and
45:40taking millions of dollars from foreign
45:42governments while she was Secretary of
45:43State. And in the meantime, in between
45:46the first Obama term after she resigned
45:49and then the leadup to the election
45:51campaign of 15 and 16 where they were
45:53pouring all this money into her campaign
45:55and she had deleted all those emails and
45:57that was the big scam. And it's so funny
45:59because if you think back to all the
46:02times that the liberal Democrat Russia
46:04gate believer said, "Oh, but her emails
46:07when like yeah, no, exactly. That's why
46:09they came up with the Russia gate thing
46:11in part was so that you would say that.
46:14So that you go, "Oh my god, here's this
46:16true gigantic conspiracy about Trump and
46:18Russia, but you're upset that her emails
46:20are missing as like this tiny little
46:22thing." Well, that was I think the
46:24manipul the manipulation there and how
46:26successful that was. But stop and rewind
46:28because there's this very important
46:29story. In fact, I have it here. Let me
46:30get the title right for everybody here.
46:32This is a story that came out last year
46:35and it's by our heroes over at Racket
46:37News, the great um Matt Taibbeie, who as
46:41I said is going to be on my show
46:42tomorrow and god dang me if I can't find
46:46this. Oh, no, it wasn't him. It was at
46:47Oh, it is him, but it was at public
46:49because he wrote it with Michael
46:51Shelonburgger. Okay, so this is
46:53public.news is their Substack. Okay, the
46:56article is called
46:58That's a long headline. FBI helped
47:01Clinton campaign. This is not it, is it?
47:04Wait, no, this is not it. I'm sorry. I'm
47:06looking at the wrong Wait, I'm gonna
47:08find it. This is it. This is it.
47:12CIA had foreign allies spy on Trump
47:15team, triggering Russia collusion hoax.
47:20Okay, now sources say, so this part of
47:23it is not fully fully documented, but I
47:26totally think that this is clear because
47:28there are many parts of it that are
47:29documented. Okay. And that is that John
47:32Brennan, the leader of Jabat al-Nusra
47:35suicide bomber brigades in Syria,
47:38committer of high treason against the
47:40United States and his support for
47:41al-Qaeda there. Um, who framed Trump,
47:44that he started this in the end of 2015.
47:48And we have two different sources that
47:51say that it was GCHQ
47:54that started it. But I think it's pretty
47:55clear that he contacted them. And this
47:58is, I think, what the source is telling
47:59Taibbe and Shelonburgger here. He
48:02contacted them and said, "Listen, I need
48:03you guys to pretend that you had a
48:05reason that you tipped me off that I
48:06need to do this, whatever." And then he
48:08went and he had like a whole swarm of
48:12informants
48:13bump, as they called it, um, into Trump
48:17campaign people in order to try to frame
48:20them. And I think that it's just
48:22perfectly well no no it's not perfectly
48:24clear because it's in this article that
48:26this is what their source says and I
48:28think it's very very likely and and um
48:31you know it is still in speculation but
48:33it seems very clear to me
48:36seems very likely to me that this is the
48:39origin of the actual framing of George
48:41Papadopoulos when you had this so-called
48:43Russian spy who was actually a Maltese
48:45professor who was working for MI6 leave
48:48information with him that Miffsud
48:51>> um Miffsud. Yes.
48:54>> Yeah. Miffs. Yeah. He actually had some
48:55kind of a tie to the State Department, I
48:57think, too.
48:58>> Yes. And MI6. And I show all this in the
49:00book thoroughly that this guy had no
49:01ties to Russia whatsoever. Said he had
49:02one friend at a think tank there, but
49:04that was meaningless. And he was pinging
49:06around with MI6 and CIA and military
49:08officials all the time and including at
49:10this spy training academy in Italy and
49:13all of these things. So it seems
49:16emphasis, but it seems as though he was
49:19meant to put something in Papadopoulos's
49:21ear and then Downer, the Australian
49:23diplomat, was made to try to take the
49:26garbage out and get him to say something
49:27to him. Papadopoulos, he never even told
49:30that guy anything because he was such a
49:31jerk to him. He never said anything to
49:33him at all. And then Downer later backed
49:35down from the New York Times claims that
49:37he had said that Papadopoulos told him
49:40that the Russians told him they had all
49:41this dirt on Clinton. It wasn't true.
49:44And in fact, they didn't even use that
49:46as an excuse to take it to the FISA
49:48court to try to get their FISA warrant
49:49against uh Trump or any of the team
49:52because they just didn't even have the
49:55courage to take that lie. And in fact,
49:57McCabe, I believe it was the FBI
49:59official said that there was just
50:01nothing enough to it to even pretend in
50:04basically that.
50:05>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's when they
50:06switched over to Carter Page.
50:07>> Yeah. But see, also there's this really
50:10important article by a guy named Steven
50:11Shra S C A G- E. And he wrote a thing,
50:16maybe not CH, maybe it's just shr a G-.
50:19And he had been a foreign policy adviser
50:21to Mitt Romney. He's like a Heritage
50:23Foundation type, I think. And he was
50:26studying at Cambridge under Stefan
50:29Halper, the Walrus they call him, who
50:32was this longtime Republican fixer. He
50:34was the one who stole Jimmy Carter's
50:36debate talking points and gave them to
50:37the Reagan campaign back in 1980. Was
50:40known as being very close to the Bushes
50:42and so forth. And we get for that
50:44thinking tank, right, that recently got
50:45disbanded.
50:46>> That's right. The Office of Net
50:47Assessment in the Pentagon, which was
50:50previously known, famous for Harold RH,
50:53the Neocon coming in and firing
50:54everybody who knew anything about Iraq
50:56in the run-up to that war. Anyway, that
50:58was like the cutout where they would pay
51:00him $30,000 for an article supposedly
51:02that was actually for dirty work he was
51:04doing. And um so he had shrege was
51:09studying under him and so he was like
51:12eyeball witness to what he called the
51:13Cambridge 4 which was um and he took
51:17responsibility in an accidental kind of
51:19a way for the framing of Carter Page
51:21because so here's the Cambridge 4 was um
51:25Christopher Steel from the Steel dossier
51:29uh the former MI6 officer Richard Dearlo
51:32the former chief of MI6 who you might
51:34remember him from the Downing Street
51:36memo that said that the intelligence is
51:38being fixed around the policy to justify
51:40the war with Iraq from July of 2002. He
51:43was the head of MI6 for Tony Blair at
51:45that time. Then there was a academic
51:47from Cambridge named Christopher Andrews
51:49who I believe was also former MI6 or MI5
51:52and then um was Halper and Halper was
51:56there had a visiting professorship of
51:59some kind or whatever at Cambridge as
52:00well. And these guys were all tight
52:02friends and they got Shrege to like
52:06organize the event and he is the one who
52:08decided to invite Carter Page because
52:10they just want to have someone from the
52:11Trump campaign. And the way he described
52:15it was that um Halper was really rude to
52:19Paige and paid him no mind until Richard
52:22Dearlo showed up and whispered in his
52:25ear or took him aside and talked to him.
52:27And then all of a sudden Halper wanted
52:29to be best friends with Paige and cidle
52:31up to him and offer to uh you know work
52:34with him and whatever. And it was after
52:36that that Paige turned up in the steel
52:38dossier and that um and Denchenko told
52:42the FBI was one of the sources for the
52:44Steel Dossier. He told the FBI that he
52:48got Paige's name from Halper and then he
52:51recycled the name and gave it to Steel
52:53when Steel was there anyway. And so this
52:55was, you know, part of thing where they
52:56framed Carter Page. Carter Page being a
53:00um adviser to the Trump campaign,
53:03foreign policy adviser, who had some
53:05business ties to Russia, but was a loyal
53:07American patriot and a CIA informant who
53:11um whenever he went to Russia and did
53:13any business or or met any man in
53:16business or politics over there, he
53:18would always come back and debrief the
53:19CIA about who he met and what he was
53:22doing. They knew him to be a loyal
53:24asset. And when the famously now kind of
53:28infamously the CIA sent a memo saying
53:31exactly that to the FBI and the FBI
53:34censored that out of their submission to
53:36the FISA court asking for a warrant
53:38against this American citizen. No
53:40probable cause here. Now it's an
53:42objective reasonable belief that this
53:44guy is a foreign agent. So we get to go
53:46fishing on him all day and two hops from
53:48him. Anyone he calls and anyone they
53:49call, we get to surveil all them too.
53:52now because this guy we're accusing him
53:54of being a foreign agent and um and he
53:58ended up being the lawyer Kevin
54:00Kleinmith ended up is the only one
54:01convicted for Russia Gate so far who was
54:04sentenced to a slap on the wrist a year
54:05probation for doing that but they framed
54:08one of their own loyal assets uh and
54:11went along and let him be framed and
54:13even though he wrote a letter to the
54:14director of the FBI saying please
54:16interview me I want you to interview me
54:17and they refused to interview him for
54:19months and months and months because
54:20they knew how innocent he was when They
54:22finally did interview him after Trump
54:23took office, after the A of January 2017
54:27where they made all these accusations
54:28and everything. They finally interviewed
54:30him. He went down there with a
54:31PowerPoint presentation. He went down
54:33there and met him five times and no
54:35lawyer. Maybe he had a lawyer but just
54:37spilled his guts the whole time. Of
54:38course, he had nothing to hide
54:39whatsoever. It was a total frame up job
54:41that they were doing there. And then so
54:43this poor guy, Christopher Strange,
54:45pardon me, Steven Shra says, "Ah, geez."
54:48Like, "I'm sorry, Carter Page. I think I
54:50got you into this, right, by inviting
54:52you to this thing. And now I realize you
54:53were set up by my boss and his buddies
54:56in Cambridge. And that same guy, Shrege,
54:59he says he recorded, not he says he
55:01proved he recorded all of his
55:03conversations with Stefan Halper. And so
55:06he has, and they published this at
55:07racket.news, they published the audio of
55:10Halper talking about how they were
55:11framing up Mike Flynn and how they were
55:13going to get him in so much trouble and
55:15then he's going to lose his temper and
55:17freak out and that's what's going to get
55:18him fired. you watch. That's why he's so
55:20well suited to this job. And then what
55:22they do, this is right at the same time
55:24that Obama is ordering the intelligence
55:26community to explain how Russia did it.
55:29Right? In other words, begging the
55:30question, assuming the conclusion, not
55:32find out if they did it and assess what
55:34they did, but how they did what they
55:37did. And right at that same time is when
55:39they're framing Flynn. They have Mike
55:41Flynn, who is a three-star general,
55:43retired, former um head of intelligence
55:46for J- Sock in Iraq, former um head of
55:51intelligence for and right-hand man to
55:54General Stanley Mcristel in the Afghan
55:56surge, who then goes to be the head of
55:58DIA. He is now the designated And by the
56:01way, why was he fired? He was fired,
56:03Daryl, because he was passing secret
56:05intelligence to the Germans as DIA
56:08director. He was heroically
56:10insubordinate passing intelligence to
56:12the Germans to pass to Assad to use to
56:14kill al-Qaeda in Syria. And there's a
56:16Seymour Hirs article about this called
56:17military to military. And it's about
56:19that the this heroic insubordination
56:22where the military is helping Assad kill
56:24the CIA suicide bomber squads. Tough,
56:27right? So that was Obama.
56:29>> Helper and that whole crew are so nasty,
56:30man. Didn't they? They they invited
56:32Flynn to a dinner at one point that he
56:35attended and there was a woman there. I
56:37can't remember her name now. Back I
56:39would have known it back in 2016 2017
56:41when I was obsessed with this story. But
56:44>> locava long
56:46>> locava was her name. And this was
56:48another thing. This
56:49>> trusted Halper like she knew him and
56:51trusted Halper,
56:52>> right? She was the student of
56:54Christopher Andrews. And it was
56:55Christopher Andrews set up his own grad
56:57student who was she was writing an essay
57:00or a book about an unknown previously
57:03unknown secret group of Soviet spies in
57:06the United States in the 1930s. And they
57:08tried to pretend that she was a swallow
57:10and she was a new mother and a new wife.
57:12And they smeared her as a spy and a
57:14[ __ ] and said that she had done all of
57:16this and had slept with Flynn. He had
57:18taken her back to his hotel and all this
57:19stuff. It was the same group. It was
57:21Christopher Andrews and Stefan Halper
57:23and all them that did that to him. At
57:25the same time that the FBI had the
57:28intercepts of him on the phone with the
57:30um Russian ambassador to the United
57:32States where he did absolutely nothing
57:34wrong whatsoever. We had every right to
57:36be on the phone with this guy. Although
57:38he should have known better than to just
57:40let set himself up to get screwed by the
57:43Obama people this way. But he did not do
57:45anything wrong on that call other than
57:47ask the Russians to veto a UN Security
57:48Council resolution against Israel, which
57:51they declined to do for him. But he did
57:53not ask them or make any promises about
57:56lifting sanctions against Russia or
57:57anything like that. And they lied. They
57:59just I don't we don't know if they
58:00either one and and I'll tell you the one
58:03of the very best things on this is a
58:04documentary at Tucker Carlson's website
58:06that they did about Flynn. They do such
58:08a good job of explaining this, how they
58:10brought Vice President Pence into the
58:12situation room and they either read him
58:15in on the lie and said, "We're going to
58:17pretend this says what it doesn't say,"
58:19or they gave him a fake transcript.
58:22Either way, someone was lying and they
58:26said, "Look, you made all these promises
58:28to lift sanctions to the Russian
58:30ambassador and you lied to me about it,
58:32Mr. Flynn." And so, and then he took
58:34that to Trump and Trump fired the guy.
58:36was one of the major successful things
58:37of the coup. All this is just completely
58:39made up. And I'm not a big fan of Mike
58:41Flynn. I wrote about him in uh Fool's
58:43Aaron and in Enough already. Um and and
58:47yet he was never a traitor for the
58:50Russians for God's sake. And this poor
58:52woman Lova never did anything improper.
58:54She she says she could prove she didn't
58:56even sit next to him at that thing. And
58:59she sued and sued and sued and sued
59:01until the British courts said, "Listen,
59:03lady, stop suing. we already denied your
59:06standing for whatever loophole reasons
59:08and so but there's every there's zero
59:12reason to believe the accusations
59:13against her and every reason to believe
59:15in her 100% innocence there and it just
59:17goes to show the absolute depravity of
59:19these people what they will do they're
59:21just this
59:21>> well there was that other Russian woman
59:23the one who was like a gun rights
59:25activist I think
59:27>> yeah Maria Bhina
59:29>> she did like 18 months in solitary and
59:31she did nothing wrong.
59:33>> Yeah,
59:35>> she was, as you say, she was trying to
59:37get guns legalized in Russia. She wasn't
59:40trying to influence American policy in
59:41any way. She was trying to get advice
59:43from American Republicans about how to
59:45handle the public relations for getting
59:47gun rights liberalized there in in
59:49Russia. And then, you're right, they
59:51just absolutely smeared her. See, there
59:52was this woman a couple years before
59:54named Anna Chapman who also who actually
59:56was a Russian spy and they gonna forget
59:59her name.
59:59>> Yeah. And see, she was a hot red head.
1:00:02Well, so was Maria Bhina. So they went,
1:00:04"Oh, look. See, get it? Hot red head."
1:00:07And then, so that's all you need to
1:00:08know. Did somebody say sex? And then so
1:00:11they just got to pretend that she had
1:00:13infiltrated the Republican party, that
1:00:15she had this relationship with this uh
1:00:17American Republican activist and how
1:00:19somehow any of this was nefarious. And
1:00:21then you're right, they locked her in
1:00:23solitary until she would plead guilty to
1:00:26a FAR violation, which 99% of Washington
1:00:30DC is guilty of and is only very rarely
1:00:33and selectively enforced.
1:00:36At all, she hadn't done anything to
1:00:38represent Russia's interests in this
1:00:40country. She was trying to represent
1:00:42just freedom's interests in Russia,
1:00:44period. She was looking for like advice
1:00:46from people over here on like how can I
1:00:48Yeah,
1:00:48>> there's a great article about her by
1:00:50James Bamford, the great intelligence
1:00:52beat reporter who wrote all the books
1:00:53about the NSA and everything. And he
1:00:54wrote a piece about her for the New
1:00:56Republic called you people shut the hell
1:00:58up. You have no idea what you're talking
1:00:59about or something like that. That's not
1:01:01the title, but that's what the article
1:01:03is about. I know this lady. You can't
1:01:05push this crap. It's not true. You know,
1:01:08and and finally some of them back and
1:01:10which by the way, Robert Mueller didn't
1:01:12get her. Robert Mueller passed and let
1:01:14some lower scum at justice go ahead and
1:01:17try to get what a couple of notches on
1:01:20his belt by taking this woman out by by
1:01:22like chiming by like adding a couple of
1:01:26of bits of loose change to the Russian
1:01:29gate hoax you know just oh here's my two
1:01:32cents and by framing up some poor lady
1:01:35it's unreal man it's completely insane
1:01:37>> that would have changed nothing if like
1:01:40all it did for them all it added to the
1:01:42Russia gate thing for them was it like
1:01:45provided content for one week's news
1:01:46cycle. That's it. And they just tried to
1:01:48destroy this woman's life, locked her in
1:01:50prison. I mean, like you said, just
1:01:51shows the depravity of it.
1:01:53>> You know, like you mentioned,
1:01:54>> origins. So, we don't know whether John
1:01:57Brennan and Hillary Clinton went golfing
1:01:59or bowling or smoking crack together or
1:02:02where exactly and how this was hatched.
1:02:04But it looks to me, oh, see, one more
1:02:06thing. I said the Brits pretended that
1:02:08they handed this to him, but it doesn't
1:02:10look like there was anything that that
1:02:12was based on. Looks like he just asked
1:02:13them to do that. But then he also
1:02:15confirmed that to Front Line that this
1:02:17begins in the end of 2015. Well, we know
1:02:22now because of all the newly released
1:02:24stuff, and I'm sorry, I'm not 100% on
1:02:26this stuff, but I know a bit of it, that
1:02:29it was at the very least in March that
1:02:32the Dutch dropped eaves dropped on the
1:02:35Russians, eaves dropping in on the
1:02:38Democrats. and they knew that the
1:02:40Clinton campaign is coming up with a
1:02:43story to smear Trump to distract
1:02:45attention from her missing emails and
1:02:47that FBI investigation into her scandal.
1:02:50So, it's looking more and more like that
1:02:53was the origin, but I'm saying no.
1:02:55Brennan started it. He came first in
1:02:572015,
1:03:00potentially coordinated with her, but
1:03:02then she and the campaign were on it by
1:03:06at least March. They hired Perkins Kuy,
1:03:08the law firm on April the 1st. And those
1:03:11are the guys who hired Glenn Simpson
1:03:14from Fusion GPS, who hired Steel, and
1:03:17they also hired the Georgia Tech team,
1:03:18uh, the Georgia Tech team that did the
1:03:21Alphab Bank hoax and helped with the,
1:03:23uh, fake attribution of the DNC and DCCC
1:03:27hack and leak and all of that. Um, uh,
1:03:30as well as Crowd Strike and all that.
1:03:32So, um, that's and then of course the
1:03:35FBI and we know for sure because the CIA
1:03:38covering their ass or at least, you
1:03:40know, it's it's I think what happens is
1:03:42it's compartmentalization,
1:03:43different desks and different
1:03:45departments and different dudes. So, we
1:03:47know somebody at the CIA and it couldn't
1:03:49have been Brennan, but somebody at CIA
1:03:51sent a criminal referral to the
1:03:53Department of Justice about the Hillary
1:03:55Clinton plan to frame Trump for treason
1:03:58in this way. And so the FBI got that and
1:04:01then quashed it. So and and we know that
1:04:03they knew all along that Hillary
1:04:06Clinton's team has this plan. We don't I
1:04:09don't know if the FBI I'd have to go
1:04:11back or or maybe look forward and more
1:04:13to find out if the FBI knew that the
1:04:16Democrats were working with the CIA at
1:04:18that point, but we know that they knew
1:04:20that the Democrats were cooking this
1:04:22whole thing up to pin on Trump. And
1:04:24which means that every bit of
1:04:27investigating that the FBI pretended to
1:04:29do was always a hoax and was always in
1:04:32furtherance of the real plot which was
1:04:35the plot against Trump. And you can see
1:04:37how over and over and this was already
1:04:39in the Durham report. It'll blow your
1:04:40mind if you haven't read. I beg
1:04:42everybody read the Durham report.
1:04:43There's the new declassified annex. But
1:04:45it is just amazing
1:04:48how many times they pretended not to
1:04:50know things so that they could proceed
1:04:53even as everything is coming up
1:04:55debunked. Everything in the steel
1:04:56dossier is coming up debunked. FBI
1:04:58doesn't believe a word of it. John
1:05:00Solomon reported they created a big
1:05:01spreadsheet of here's every claim in the
1:05:03steel dossier. Here's everything they
1:05:05didn't that's true. Here's everything in
1:05:07it that's salacious. And then you can
1:05:08see how everything in it that's true is
1:05:10just open- source stuff and nothing that
1:05:12anyone is in trouble for. And then
1:05:14everything that looks like it might be
1:05:15criminal is obviously completely made up
1:05:17and verified nowhere, right? And all of
1:05:19America's spies in Russia said, "What?
1:05:21We never heard of any of this. Carter
1:05:23Page and getting some giant kickback for
1:05:25some giant oil deal with Rosenef or
1:05:27whatever. $700 million. Give me a break.
1:05:30This is all pathetic." They laughed it
1:05:31right out of the room. They all knew it
1:05:33was fake. The CIA dismissed the Steel
1:05:35Report um as pure internet rumor. Um you
1:05:38know, the professionals doing their job
1:05:40just took one look at it and threw it
1:05:42right out. And yet they included it
1:05:44anyway. And they say, "Oh, it was just
1:05:45an annex to the most highly classified
1:05:48version of the report for Obama only."
1:05:50But that's not true because if you look
1:05:51at the great Substack Undead FOYA, he
1:05:54has this great thing where he compares
1:05:56claims in the IEC with claims in the
1:05:59Steel Dossier. And you can see where
1:06:00they're just plagiarizing and rewriting
1:06:02like a junior high school student, but
1:06:04they're they're taking the conclusions
1:06:05out of the steel dossier, which is
1:06:07totally made up nonsense about Russia's
1:06:09determination to help Trump win and all
1:06:11that, and they're putting it right in
1:06:12there. Um, so, you know, and by the way,
1:06:15>> one more thing, people can check the
1:06:17record. It was April Glass Day, July
1:06:2025th, 2016, that I interviewed Jeffrey
1:06:23Carr, the computer security expert on my
1:06:25show. And he'd been writing about this
1:06:26for weeks. I was late to the game before
1:06:28I finally got him on and I interviewed
1:06:30him and he explained that any company or
1:06:34group of researchers or whoever who
1:06:36claims that they can tell you who hacked
1:06:37a server just by examining it is lying.
1:06:40One organization in the world that can
1:06:42tell you what who really hacked that
1:06:44server and that's the NSA. And they can
1:06:47tell you with 100% certainty because
1:06:49they can follow any packet anywhere in
1:06:51the world. They can rewind the whole
1:06:52internet and watch whatever they want.
1:06:54So if the NSA doesn't know who did it,
1:06:57then it happened on site. Somebody went
1:06:59in there with a thumb drive or something
1:07:00like that. Seth Rich,
1:07:04what do we know about the NSA? The NSA
1:07:06would do nothing but give low to
1:07:07moderate confidence behind all of these
1:07:10claims by the CIA andor FBI. And the NSA
1:07:13wouldn't stand behind them because they
1:07:14absolutely were not coming from the NSA.
1:07:17And that, my friend, is four days, five
1:07:20days before they ever launched Crossfire
1:07:22Hurricane. the whole the core of the
1:07:24whole story was debunked on my show. I
1:07:27remember um the you know I saw a lot of
1:07:31people and to a certain extent even
1:07:33myself which I have no excuse for
1:07:34because I should have known better but a
1:07:36lot of other people um who were Trump
1:07:38supporters who at first they were like
1:07:40kind of worried like man they're going
1:07:43so hard on this on every channel and
1:07:45every agency like maybe he didn't do
1:07:47what they're saying he did but he had to
1:07:49have done something right like they
1:07:51wouldn't just they wouldn't just do this
1:07:53and as time went on they start to
1:07:56realize that like, oh no, actually he's
1:07:58innocent. Oh no, actually he's being
1:08:00framed. And you know, one of the
1:08:02mistakes that they made is that they
1:08:04really underestimated the the level to
1:08:07which a huge mass of the MAGA people
1:08:10were very plugged into this story. They
1:08:12were listening to Dan Bonino talk about
1:08:14it every day. They were listening to
1:08:16podcast, everything. Like they were very
1:08:18plugged in. You talk about, forget
1:08:20Carter Paige, talk about Igor
1:08:21Danchchenko or or uh Joseph M. They knew
1:08:24all about him. They knew all that stuff.
1:08:26And so it made it so when they came out
1:08:27with these like speak and spell like
1:08:29kindergarten level lies
1:08:32the it was just it was doubly insulting
1:08:35because the people were like because
1:08:37they knew they would like the lies
1:08:38weren't even meant to stand up to like
1:08:41basic scrutiny. let alone you're
1:08:42throwing them out in front of people who
1:08:43are listening to Dan Bonino tell you
1:08:45break every like single event down every
1:08:47day or reading every John Solomon
1:08:48article you know and I remember myself
1:08:52like I was obsessed with this story in
1:08:542017
1:08:5617 and then the Muller uh testimony
1:08:58happened and it was such a total
1:09:00disaster that it was like you know it
1:09:02was like um it was the way we felt in
1:09:052008 and late 2007 into 2008 being in
1:09:09the space of people that really saw the
1:09:12housing crisis coming and saw the whole
1:09:14like subprime just disaster. I was
1:09:17reading blogs called like housing panic
1:09:19and housing bubble blog and stuff back
1:09:21in ' 04. And so I'm watching this and
1:09:23you're kind of like wondering like this
1:09:25is interesting. It all makes sense. It
1:09:27jives with the economics that I know and
1:09:29that I you know that I that I sort of
1:09:30get on with. But then when it starts to
1:09:32happen, you're still like no way. You
1:09:35just get the popcorn. You're just
1:09:37watching it. And that's how the the
1:09:38Muller like testimony was. And it was
1:09:41crazy because like all the Democrats,
1:09:43not just your average like supporters
1:09:44out there, wine moms and blue-haired
1:09:46college students, but like you can tell
1:09:48like, you know, uh uh David Axelrod,
1:09:51like by the way he was talking about
1:09:53they thought Mueller was going to come
1:09:55in there and just freaking light Trump
1:09:57on fire. Like they thought this is this
1:09:58is going to be the big show. This is it.
1:10:01And it was so bad that people like me
1:10:06who've been following this obsessively
1:10:07are like, "All right, finally. Here we
1:10:10go. Okay, they got caught. Now we're
1:10:12gonna have a reckoning. And it became
1:10:15clear very quickly, just like with the
1:10:17financial crisis, that oh, nothing's
1:10:20going to happen and I can't keep reading
1:10:22about this stuff or I'm going to like,
1:10:25you know what I mean? I'm going to start
1:10:26fed posting somewhere if I keep reading
1:10:28this stuff because nothing's going to
1:10:30happen. So, I just sort of backed away
1:10:31from it.
1:10:32>> Well, you know what's cool now is you
1:10:34can just live all your vicarious rage
1:10:36through the Department of Justice. Let
1:10:38them give John Brennan and Jim Comey
1:10:41fair trials and then lock them in the
1:10:43supermax next to the other terrorists
1:10:46like Ramsay Yousef.
1:10:47>> They have to go hard on these people,
1:10:49dude. And I don't say that out of a
1:10:50sense of partisan revenge or anything
1:10:52like that. This is like republic
1:10:55breaking stuff. This is the kind of
1:10:57thing when the security services take an
1:11:00active role in our politics like that
1:11:04when they decide that they're the
1:11:05Ptorian guard that knows better and
1:11:07they're going to choose the emperor what
1:11:09that's the end of the republic. I mean,
1:11:10to the extent that, you know, one exists
1:11:12now, it's the end of whatever this thing
1:11:14is that we've got going. Once that
1:11:16starts happening and it works and they
1:11:17get away with it, it's never going to
1:11:20stop. And and so we have one chance to
1:11:23make sure that every future FBI director
1:11:26knows, every future CIA director,
1:11:29they're not going to get Obama, and they
1:11:30probably shouldn't. There's certain
1:11:31kinds of like, you know, presidential
1:11:33immunity stuff I'm sure Trump doesn't
1:11:35want to mess around with, but uh they,
1:11:38you know, the president or the
1:11:40presidential candidate like Hillary
1:11:41Clinton can't do this on her own. She
1:11:43needed Comey, she needed in the future
1:11:46if they want to try something like that,
1:11:47they're going to need people like that
1:11:48then. And so those people need to know
1:11:51in the future when they think about
1:11:52doing this again that when a new Hillary
1:11:54Clinton comes to them and says, "Hey, I
1:11:56got this idea to stop this monster from
1:11:58winning the election that they think
1:12:00back and say, you know what, the old
1:12:02Hillary Clinton and everybody else
1:12:04skated scot-free while Jim Comey and
1:12:06John Brennan went off to prison. So I am
1:12:08not getting involved with that. That is
1:12:10what we have to do."
1:12:11>> Yeah. Well, and look, I mean, what you
1:12:14say about the counterproductivity of
1:12:18locking up Obama, I mean, when Ahud Mer
1:12:21went to prison in Israel, everybody knew
1:12:23it was just because he was corrupt and
1:12:25it was the rule of law. It was the
1:12:26federal police who took him down or, you
1:12:28know, the shinbet, whatever. But it
1:12:29wasn't a partisan thing. In this case,
1:12:32just Trump locks up Obama. We could very
1:12:35well continue to do that back and forth
1:12:37and make things really ugly around here.
1:12:40um lower down guys. Yes, I think at
1:12:44least it's within reason that you could
1:12:47do that. But is that really right that
1:12:49Comey is going to go to prison? No. So,
1:12:51I think here's what we should do. And
1:12:53this is what they really should have
1:12:54done with the torture thing, I guess, as
1:12:56well. Because they went back and forth.
1:12:58Maybe we should do a blue ribbon
1:12:59commission. Maybe we should do some
1:13:01indictments. And they end up doing
1:13:02neither, right? So, but here's what you
1:13:04could do is you have Bonino and whoever
1:13:09and their men, whatever the um the uh
1:13:13Pam Bondi's men, I guess, over justice,
1:13:16convene grand juries. Oh, did we lose
1:13:18our guy? Have them convene grand juries
1:13:21and issue essentially formal indictments
1:13:25and and not ones just full of
1:13:26assertions, but full of documentation to
1:13:29support the claims. And then just issue
1:13:31the full indictments, but then just
1:13:33don't press charges. don't actually lock
1:13:35them in prison as much as I might have,
1:13:38you know, watching that. Um, in but
1:13:42instead truly indict the hell out of
1:13:44them in the public where even Charlie
1:13:47Savage at the New York Times has to
1:13:49admit that, man, this is some pretty
1:13:51ugly stuff that I went along with here
1:13:52kind of thing and just, you know, make
1:13:55it the ultimate truth and reconciliation
1:13:57thing. Well, Jim Comey certainly is
1:13:59guilty of felonies. you know, for
1:14:01political reasons, we've decided maybe
1:14:03not to push uh to lock him in solitary
1:14:06confinement like he deserves, but we all
1:14:09know he deserves it and go ahead and
1:14:11make that much clear at the very least.
1:14:13Um because when you're talking about
1:14:15prosecuting people that powerful, the
1:14:16reality is they don't get prosecuted.
1:14:18It's not law. It's it's policy. It's
1:14:22politics rather than the rule of law
1:14:24that applies at that level. So, in other
1:14:26words, you can make your magic wish that
1:14:28these guys are going to go to prison,
1:14:30which by the way, they did try to put
1:14:31Trump in prison. So, might he go that
1:14:34far? Like, yeah, we'll see who goes to
1:14:35prison. Like, you know what? I'm not
1:14:37against it. If he wants to go that far,
1:14:39I I certainly wouldn't protest. But I
1:14:41guess I'm just saying maybe we get the
1:14:43most truth if they would just, you know,
1:14:46persecute them um publicly, but without
1:14:49actually locking them up. That kind of
1:14:51deal. I don't know. It looks like
1:14:52Daryl's gone and we're overtime anyway.
1:14:54So, here's what we're going to do. I'm
1:14:55going to interview Matt Taie tomorrow.
1:14:57And I'm also going to interview Anthony
1:14:59Aguular, the uh Green Beret eyewitness
1:15:02to the war crimes in Gaza as well. And
1:15:05then I'm going to go celebrate Ron
1:15:06Paul's 90th birthday over the weekend
1:15:08with a bunch of good friends. And then
1:15:09we're going to be back here next week
1:15:10and I will have done a very deep dive on
1:15:13all the newest developments in Russia
1:15:15Gate, which I have touched on at least
1:15:17some of that stuff here today. But we'll
1:15:19be able to really, I hope, uh, tighten
1:15:21down the most important aspects of the
1:15:24latest developments in some kind of
1:15:26organized fashion for you. And we're
1:15:28going to get Daryl an Ethernet cable.
1:15:44Heat. Heat.
1:15:52[Applause]
1:15:55[Music]

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