YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → Ep 46: Peter Bleksley Interview - Undercover, Hillsborough, QPR, Manhunt: Finding Kevin Parle

Ep 46: Peter Bleksley Interview - Undercover, Hillsborough, QPR, Manhunt: Finding Kevin Parle — Transcript

by Tackling Sport · 18,009 words · 2,728 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:01So now delighted to be joined on the
0:03line by Peter Bleksley, a former
0:06founding member of the Scotland Yard
0:07undercover unit and author of
0:09broadcaster, the man hunting Kevin
0:10Pietersen, a massive sports fan and
0:12maybe most importantly a die-hard Queens
0:15Park Rangers fan. Peter, welcome to the
0:17show. Thanks for joining me.
0:18Thank you very much for having me. It's
0:20a pleasure to be here.
0:22And like like we spoke off air, it's
0:23probably not the best time to be a QPR
0:25fan at the moment.
0:27Oh, it's absolutely shocking. We've had
0:29a We've had a really bad week on a on a
0:32number of levels. Firstly, there was a
0:35program on Channel 5 that went out a
0:37couple of nights ago
0:38about Paddington railway station.
0:41And on that show, they showed a clip of
0:44the Rangers players and staff turning up
0:47to travel to an away game.
0:49Now, you would think that it's not too
0:52difficult a thing for young men
0:55to be able to get on a train on time.
0:58They had an exclusive carriage all to
1:01themselves, eh? Oh, the privileges of
1:03being an average footballer, right?
1:06Anyway, it showed during this show that
1:09three of the Rangers players who had
1:11sorted off treating their lives as their
1:13own
1:14couldn't actually, you know, get
1:16themselves promptly onto the train. So,
1:19the staff, the railway staff who were
1:21trying to help them, who were trying to
1:23facilitate these people getting into
1:25their own private carriage are rushing
1:27around the station trying to herd these
1:30players together and say, "Get a move
1:31on. Get on the train."
1:33Right? Well, to me, it looked like a PR
1:36disaster cuz I I thought those players
1:40looked like they were entitled,
1:42privileged, ill-disciplined people who
1:45couldn't pull their finger out and get
1:47onto a train on time.
1:48It was bad PR. It looked really bad, you
1:52know, and we know they live
1:54lives completely different to ours, but
1:56these are not multi-millionaire
1:58Premiership footballers we're talking
2:00about. This is a team who can't beat an
2:03egg at the moment in the Championship.
2:06Yeah, so you can feel the passion Peter
2:09for being a QPR fan. Look, well, I
2:11suppose we're going to get into a little
2:12bit of all that in the show. We've a lot
2:14of things planned. It's going to be a
2:15great discussion. First thing I'm going
2:17to ask you about what was it like
2:18growing up in 1960 South London in
2:21Blackley Heath and maybe the role of
2:23sport, but but also there's a huge
2:24moment in 1966 and England winning the
2:27the World Cup. Have you any initial kind
2:29of memories of that?
2:30I I I was born in December 1959.
2:34So, I was six when England won the World
2:37Cup. But, you know what? It's a real
2:38shame, but I have no memory of it. Um
2:42and I I don't know why. I At the time,
2:45my parents were embroiled in a really
2:48miserable marriage. And I remember the
2:51misery, the the the fighting and the
2:54smashing of things and my dad's,
2:57you know, rampant kind of uncontrollable
3:00drinking. I remember all the misery that
3:02that brought to to my house, but I don't
3:05remember the World Cup in 1966 and
3:08that's really kind of
3:10sad. Um
3:12I have no recollection of it whatsoever.
3:15And what's your earliest then sporting
3:17memory and and growing up? Do you
3:19remember going outside like so many and
3:22maybe that's a huge part of modern
3:23society that people don't go out onto
3:25the road with their neighbors and kick a
3:26ball. Is that something you would have
3:27done?
3:28Well, but my earliest sporting memory,
3:30funnily enough, came from my abusive dad
3:33who came home one night and he wasn't
3:35exactly renowned for coming home.
3:38And he said to me he'd been working at a
3:40football ground that day. And I guess I
3:42was probably about 7 years old,
3:45something like that. And and so my
3:47interest in football was just beginning
3:49to to grow.
3:50And I said to him, "Where were you
3:52working? What ground were you working
3:53at?" And he said, "Ah, you'll never have
3:55heard of them. You you you won't have
3:57heard of them. Don't don't don't worry
3:58about it." I said, "No, tell me. What
4:00ground were you working at?" He said,
4:01"Well, he said they're in the third
4:03division." He said, "They're called
4:05Queens Park Rangers."
4:07And that just stuck with me. So, on the
4:10Saturday, I looked in the newspaper to
4:12see who they were playing.
4:14And on the Sunday, I looked in the
4:16newspaper to see how they'd got on.
4:19And here we are over half a century
4:21later, it is still a massive part of my
4:24life that club. I've been a season
4:25ticket holder there for as long as I can
4:27remember. My three sons have all had QPR
4:31drummed into them. Unfortunately,
4:33they're all supporters, although we are
4:34all, as you can imagine, rather gloomy
4:38this morning on the back of a 3-0 defeat
4:40last night to Barnsley who hadn't won a
4:42game all season. But anyway, I I
4:44You see, you get me started about
4:46Rangers and I frankly don't stop.
4:49And and maybe it's a pity it wasn't a,
4:50you know, a a top six club that you
4:52picked, but maybe that's the beauty of
4:53it and and like the beauty of supporting
4:55a club, you know, because for a lot of
4:56people in Ireland who support a League
4:58of Ireland club or in Gaelic games who
5:00support a, you know, a lower tier
5:01county, that makes those wins even
5:03special. So, when you do get promoted or
5:05win a championship or go to go into the
5:07Premier League, I suppose it makes those
5:08memories that little bit special that
5:10you were there, you know, in in barren
5:12years when, like you said, you're in the
5:13third division and, you know, your
5:15connection to QPR never wavered in that
5:17sense.
5:18It's been a complete roller coaster.
5:21We've had glory glory days
5:24of the captain of England, Gerry
5:26Francis, captaining our club as well.
5:29Glory days. Stan Bowles, Rodney Marsh,
5:32Les Ferdinand. The list goes on and on
5:35and on. And apologies to Phil Parkes,
5:37Dave Clement, the late Dave Clement, Ian
5:40Gillard and many, many other wonderful
5:42players who have worn the shirt. But,
5:45one of the greatest things to have come
5:47out of supporting a club like me and
5:48it's not been easy
5:50is the friendships that I've made
5:52over the years. You know, my mate who I
5:54sit with, we've been sitting next to one
5:57another for over 30 years. We've done
6:00home and away. Um I don't do as many
6:02away games now as I used to. I I kind of
6:05uh reined back on that when my two
6:07youngest sons came along. We still have
6:09a a naughty boy day day out, you know,
6:12um sort of two or three times a season
6:14where we all get on a train bright and
6:16early, disappear up to Birmingham or
6:19Sheffield or somewhere like that. And as
6:21the wheels start turning, as the train
6:23pulls out of Euston or King's Cross, all
6:26you can hear is a
6:28as the first can opens. And um yeah,
6:30it's a naughty boys' day out. But, I I
6:32used to do home and away um when we were
6:35in the third tier back at the turn of
6:37the century, I did all 46 league games
6:40one season.
6:41Uh which was bonkers and, you know, but
6:43there you go. That's how much they're
6:45they're in my life. But, it's the
6:46friendships, the friendships that we've
6:48made, whether they are the friendships
6:50with my mate that I go to every game
6:52with, every home game with, or whether
6:54it's the friendship with the editor of
6:57the fanzine that I've known for 40 years
6:59or so, you know, and I've never been to
7:01his house and he's never been to my
7:02house, but when we get together on a
7:05Saturday, there's a connection and we
7:07talk about Rangers. And all those people
7:09that you just nod at, you know, that
7:11you've known for decades and you just
7:13have a nod and a smile cuz you're a
7:15kindred brethren. So, yeah, the the
7:18friendships have have really are are
7:20what stand out for me.
7:22Yeah, and you know, I think a lot of
7:23people will relate to that, that
7:25connection of the colors being the the
7:27main connection between the person sat
7:28beside you and yourself. Um like you
7:31said there, you know, growing up, you
7:33were you just fell in love with QPR in
7:35the sense. What what other roles of of
7:37sport did it play in your life? Did it
7:40you know, connect you to to to different
7:42parts of society maybe if you like or
7:44were you
7:45an avid sports
7:47fan growing up?
7:49Well, going to as many Rangers game
7:50games as I have over the decades,
7:53uh
7:53and of course for a lot of that time, me
7:55being in the police,
7:57I've really got a very good insight into
8:00what it was like to be on the other side
8:03of football policing.
8:06You know, and I've got some pretty rough
8:07treatment at the hands of police
8:09officers over the years cuz, you know,
8:11you don't pull your warrant card out and
8:13say, "Actually, I'm one of yours."
8:15as they're herding you like, you know,
8:17like third class citizens and treating
8:19you abysmally and, you know, sort of
8:22kettling you after away games and
8:25stopping you from,
8:27you know, leaving the ground and all
8:28that kind of stuff. I've been on the the
8:30wrong end of some pretty abysmal
8:32football policing and some good football
8:34policing. But, so that kind of, you
8:37know, gives you a a great insight and I
8:39took quite a lot of that um into when I
8:42worked undercover as a cop, you know,
8:44because I I
8:45I I'd experienced that and I could weave
8:48it into conversations.
8:50Yeah, and and you could have you could
8:51have blended in if you like. Was there
8:52any other sports that you took to when
8:54you were younger? Um what was it like
8:55growing up where you were? Was it a big
8:57football area?
8:59No, not really. I mean, it was it's a
9:02South London borough, but it I can't
9:04claim it was the the tough side of the
9:06street. It was pretty leafy and, you
9:10know, working middle class type
9:12aspirational sort of place.
9:14So, um but cricket cricket I absolutely
9:18love cricket. And I retired from playing
9:22only about 3 years ago. And and I have
9:25been chairman of a very large local
9:28cricket club. And I
9:30I gave up the chairmanship at the end of
9:32last year because because it took up so
9:34much of my time and of course I got work
9:36pressures and family pressures and
9:38something had to give. But, cricket is
9:40just a sport that I absolutely
9:43adore.
9:45Um
9:46and and and and and it's a lifelong love
9:48like it is football. Boxing,
9:51um I've always loved boxing and I boxed
9:55for the police.
9:57Um
9:58I I'll give you a clue as the amount of
10:01boxing ability that I had.
10:03They gave me a nickname. Which was
10:06Horace. And that was short for
10:08horizontal.
10:10So that gives you a bit of an indicator.
10:12But I won my many many more bouts than I
10:16ever lost. And here, all these years
10:19later, this is this dates from 1982.
10:23Metropolitan Police Athletic Association
10:25La Fronde Cup. And here it is. Right?
10:28You'll You'll see it's so tiny that it's
10:31not the winner's trophy.
10:34Unfortunately, there was a far far
10:36better boxer than me that has the
10:37winner's trophy proudly sitting on his
10:40mantelpiece somewhere I should expect.
10:42And by crikey, he gave me a battery that
10:45night. But um Yeah, no I I I loved
10:48boxing and have some wonderful memories
10:51for that. And I've I've been a huge
10:52sports fan of
10:54of many many sports. Yeah, and just a
10:57couple of things to touch on boxing. Did
10:59Did Had you boxed before you joined the
11:01Met Police?
11:02No. So I joined the police cadets at 17.
11:06And trained, you know, got remarkably
11:09fit cuz fitness was such a large part of
11:10what they did. And I got incredibly fit.
11:13And towards the end of 1977, I was
11:16getting ready to make my have my debut
11:19bout in the early part of 1978.
11:23But unfortunately, the night before
11:25Christmas Eve, I went out in Bexley
11:27Village with a few mates and got
11:29involved, not our fault I hasten to add,
11:32in an enormous punch-up. And I copped a
11:35right-hander which was like a
11:36sledgehammer and fractured my cheekbone.
11:39So that scuppered
11:41me boxing the following year. And in
11:43fact, I didn't actually start boxing I I
11:47you know, I kind of stopped training at
11:48that point and picked it up a couple of
11:50years later
11:52when when I was a PC in uniform at
11:55Peckham Police Station and then I
11:57started my
11:59my decidedly average boxing career
12:01again.
12:02And And at the moment it it almost seems
12:04like, you know, last year maybe even
12:05before COVID that boxing and British
12:08boxing heavyweight boxing was in such a
12:09strong position. And maybe going back to
12:11maybe your childhood, have you had you
12:13any early memories of maybe some of the
12:15the legendary boxing fighter even maybe
12:17hearing stories of like the Thriller in
12:19Manila or anything like that?
12:21Frazier, Foreman, and Ali.
12:24That was my era. I mean, just truly
12:28truly amazing. And of course, British
12:31middleweight boxing. You know, when we
12:34had Alan Minter and then at other
12:35weights, we had so many world champions.
12:37John H. Stracey. And I'm forgetting many
12:40many others. And of course, I was boxing
12:43myself during the whole Hearns, Hagler,
12:47Sugar Ray Leonard era. You know, I've
12:49seen some of the most gracious,
12:52wonderful, warrior fighters
12:55ever to grace the planet. Not to mention
12:57while I'm talking about British
12:59middleweights, of course, Eubank,
13:02Watson, Nigel Benn. You know, great
13:05great eras. And of course, let's Oh,
13:09with great pride I have to say where did
13:12Barry McGuigan win his world title?
13:15At what was then called Loftus Road, the
13:17home of Queens Park Rangers, which is
13:19now the Kiyan Prince Foundation Stadium.
13:22Barry McGuigan beat Eusebio Pedroza at
13:25Loftus Road. Ah, the memories. Yeah, a
13:29lot of people will will remember fondly
13:31on Barry McGuigan and his time and what
13:33and what he did. And maybe we'll kind of
13:34get discussing to some of those issues
13:36later. And another um just got maybe
13:39going back onto cricket. And cricket
13:41itself, I'm a massive cricket fan
13:43myself, but you think of that great West
13:45Indian team with Viv Richards and and
13:47Clive Lloyd and sort of the guile and
13:50the energy they brought to cricket and
13:52what it did to the Caribbean nation in
13:54in England in if you like in that sense.
13:56And you know, when you see clips of it
13:58now and there's brilliant documentaries
14:00of that West Indian team, is that
14:02something that maybe got you hooked into
14:03cricket as well? I know a lot of people
14:05speak about West Indian team as a real
14:07like got attraction to the game of
14:09cricket back then?
14:10Well, I've only ever played cricket as
14:12an opening bat. So of course, my
14:15admiration for for batters is enormous.
14:18But
14:20Michael Holding and Andy Roberts, you
14:22know, opening the bowling for the West
14:24Indies. Plus of course, many others,
14:26brilliant bowlers that supported them.
14:28Jeff Thomson and Dennis Lillee
14:31opening the bowling for the Aussies. You
14:33know, these were the kind of people that
14:35in my dreams I I wanted to face. Of
14:38course I
14:39you know, stumps would have been
14:40splintered probably along with my thumbs
14:42and my forearms and God knows where
14:44else. Um cuz I was never remotely good
14:46enough to to deal with those world's
14:49titans. But yeah, if you look back to
14:51the whole blackwash era when the West
14:54Indies just came over to the UK and
14:56steamrollered the English team. I
14:59remember seeing headlines at the time on
15:02the back pages saying, is this the death
15:05of spin?
15:06You know, people were actually
15:07discussing in the media that spin
15:09bowling was going to become a lost art,
15:11a thing of the past. And then of course,
15:14in in in recent years, people like Shane
15:16Warne and Murray have have have made it
15:19the the great and vitally important part
15:22of the game that it is. And my youngest
15:24son, who's the only one of my three sons
15:26still playing cricket, is a left-arm
15:28orthodox spinner.
15:30Um so of course, I have a particular
15:32kind of fondness now for for watching
15:34spin bowlers, whereas I used to have a
15:37particular fondness for carving them
15:39over cow corner.
15:42I wish I could only dream of hitting a
15:43shot like that. But um
15:45maybe what is your earliest memory of
15:48going to a cricket match at that stage?
15:49Was it something that like, you know,
15:51you you kind of just like like QPR in
15:53the sense you just kind of fell into it
15:55or or what was cricket like in your
15:57early life?
15:58Well, of course, test match cricket was
16:00on the TV, but we only had two and then
16:02three channels back in those days. So
16:04what I would sit and watch in my spare
16:06time, watching the likes of yes,
16:08Boycott. Um wake up. I can hear people
16:11falling asleep now. No, he was a mighty
16:13wonderful player. You know, a bit of an
16:15irascible and questionable character of
16:17course in recent years, but a wonderful
16:19wonderful cricketer who scored more than
16:22100 hundreds. And I grew up watching him
16:26opening the batting for England. And I
16:28kind of learned how to play a forward
16:30defensive shot by watching Geoff
16:32Boycott. Because there wasn't the
16:34wonderful Colts cricket coaching now
16:36that youngsters have, particularly at
16:38our club and I suspect your club and
16:40thousands around the around the globe.
16:44Um so I taught myself how to bat by
16:46watching it on telly. And then took
16:49plucked up the courage to walk into a
16:50local cricket club close to my home. And
16:53they accepted me and I learned the game
16:55and played with some wonderful
16:57cricketers. And it became a huge huge
16:59part of my life. And I was very
17:01fortunate enough to play in some very
17:02good sides and have more than a modicum
17:05of success playing the game.
17:08Exactly. And And maybe let's if we move
17:10on to your career. Um you've spoken in a
17:13few different interviews about your path
17:15to joining the Met Police. And it maybe
17:16mightn't be the most conventional way,
17:18but you still joined the Met Police
17:20in 1978. Maybe you want to discuss how
17:22it came about and your first couple of
17:24years as a as a police officer.
17:27Yeah, well, as a kid, you know, after my
17:30dad had disappeared and it was quite
17:32frankly good riddance to bad rubbish. Um
17:34I was a real rudderless [ __ ] I had no
17:37male role models to follow, to learn
17:40from. And I just became a bit of a dick
17:42part of my language. You know, I got
17:45involved in petty crime. I truant it
17:47from school cuz my dear mum, who's still
17:49with us fortunately at 92 My dear mum
17:53was going to work every day, getting up
17:54at the crack of dawn and disappearing
17:56out of the house to put food on the
17:58table and a shirt on my back. Um and so
18:01she didn't know what I was up to. And
18:03yeah, I truant it from school. Kind of
18:05flunked my exams, only cobbled together
18:08just about enough to avoid me having to
18:10take the police entrance exam. And And
18:13got involved in petty crime. And bunking
18:16off school, which was foolish. Um but
18:21kind of through it through through that
18:24grew my fondness for horse racing. Cuz I
18:27would bunk off school, go home, get
18:30changed out of my school uniform. Don't
18:32follow any of this kids, please please
18:33don't. Put on my regular clothes and
18:37black my way into the betting shop. Have
18:40a bet on what was then the ITV 3. They
18:42had three races on ITV in the afternoon.
18:45Go round to my mate's house and see how
18:47the horses that I'd backed had got on.
18:49Um and I So it was a patent. So I had a
18:52patent which was seven bets. A trio or
18:54whatever they call it these days. Three
18:56singles, three doubles, and a
18:58three-ended, you know, treble. And And
19:01it would be 5p. I'd have a 5p patent. So
19:04that'd be 35p in total. Um and one
19:07afternoon, bingo, it came up. And I won
19:1017 and a half quid. And the uh
19:13the difficulty I had trying to hide that
19:15money from my mum. Cuz suddenly, I was
19:17cackling cash. I won 17 and a half quid,
19:20which was an absolute fortune to this
19:23truanting, irresponsible child. Um But
19:26yeah, so part of my love for horse
19:28racing grew out of that. Um but yeah,
19:31truanting and and gambling Truanting's a
19:34a nonsense dopey thing to do. And I
19:38don't gamble anymore. Let's just say,
19:40you know, let's just put it that way. Um
19:42my bank account is somewhat better for
19:44it. Yeah, and and I'm sure a lot of
19:46people have those memories of, you know,
19:48when they're younger even on the Grand
19:49National. And And you know, you
19:52you know, I know in our house my dad
19:53would come around and you and you just
19:54pick a name spontaneously and you know
19:57if you ever you know wanted or whatever
19:59there'd be that sense of joy and
20:01like you said that you you were a little
20:02bit
20:03um
20:04not the conventional route for for
20:05joining the police. Uh there was a
20:07little moment in your life that happened
20:08that made you it was you know a chance
20:10encounter with someone at your home.
20:13Yeah, I came home one night. I was 16.
20:17Uh this
20:19ever youth
20:20walked into the lounge of the flat that
20:22I shared with my mom
20:24and there was an enormous great
20:27uniformed police officer
20:29sitting in our in our in our lounge and
20:32the first thing I thought was oh crikey
20:34what am I going to get nicked for?
20:36Um but fortunately my very wise mom had
20:39gotten round to our flat to
20:42you know put me straight and have a chat
20:44about joining the police.
20:46And he sold the idea to me. Uh so much
20:50so that before he left he pulled out the
20:52application forms out of his pocket and
20:54I sat there and filled them in
20:56and within a few short weeks I was
20:59walking through the gates of Hendon
21:01Police Cadet School
21:03um to to embark on what was a roller
21:06coaster.
21:07And and did you know much about the
21:09police? Did you know many police
21:10officers at the time? Like you said you
21:12you you know you you didn't have the
21:14traditional maybe route to being a
21:15police officer. When did when you joined
21:17what was that like and joining the the
21:19the the police um at at at a really
21:22young age as well and you joined in
21:23Peckham in in in 1978. What was it what
21:26was all that like as you know as a
21:27really young guy?
21:29Yeah, there was there was no history of
21:31policing in our family. The closest
21:33encounter I'd ever had with a cop was
21:35when I kicked the front door of an off
21:36license and got swiftly nabbed for it.
21:39Unfortunately not charged, you know,
21:42such a dope. Thought I was a big hard
21:44man in his steel toe cap Dr. Martens.
21:47Um and yeah, it was all brand new to me
21:51which so I was fascinated by it all and
21:54and there was so much discipline in the
21:55police cadets. They kind of knocked kids
21:57like me into shape and they did a very
21:59effective job of it. And then when I got
22:02posted to Peckham as a police constable
22:05in 1978 in my big hat
22:08um Peckham was a very different world
22:11that I had no experience of.
22:13Multicultural uh predominant
22:15Afro-Caribbean population sort of second
22:18generation the Windrush generation their
22:21kids were growing up
22:23and it was a hot bit of racism not only
22:25outside of the police station but sadly
22:28within it as well.
22:30It was largely
22:31policing was imposed upon minority
22:33communities because the white police
22:36force didn't understand the black
22:39population and were largely fearful of
22:41them and some frankly ghastly things
22:44went on and I to my shame became a vile
22:50immature little racist ass.
22:54And I had my sort of epiphany moment
22:57three years later at Brixton when the
22:59riots kicked off and Brixton burned
23:01and I suddenly realized kind of you know
23:04what a dope I was because anybody who
23:07judges somebody on their color, creed
23:11faith, race, sexuality
23:14ability
23:16you're a fool.
23:18You know, judge people on the people
23:19they are. Of course some people are
23:22fools and and and you can dislike them
23:24that's absolutely fine. I'm not saying
23:26we live in some harmonious naive kind of
23:29nirvana because we don't.
23:31But anybody who judges someone purely
23:33and simply on those factors is a fool.
23:36You spoke there in in about 1981 in the
23:39Brixton riot and maybe it being a bit of
23:41a turning point. You you were you were
23:44involved you were working around then
23:45and you know 279 police officers were
23:48injured. It was sort of
23:50a chaotic couple of days in April of
23:52that year. What
23:53what was your memories of it there? You
23:55spoke briefly on it.
23:57Yeah, well at the time on the Friday
23:59afternoon which was the start of of the
24:02disturb the riots
24:04me and some colleagues we'd been working
24:07in what was called a divisional support
24:08unit. So it was a long wheelbase people
24:11carrier transit type thing, you know,
24:14which they bundled a dozen of us
24:16proactive cops onto and we would go to
24:18any kind of hot spot for any particular
24:21crime within our district. Um it was
24:24Friday Friday afternoon we'd had a long
24:27long um
24:29week worked many many hours and as far
24:32as we were concerned it was poets day.
24:34Piss off early tomorrow Saturday. Um so
24:37we dropped a few of our colleagues off
24:39and by the time the shout came up from
24:41Brixton for urgent assistance um there
24:45was only about three or four of us left
24:46on the van.
24:47And we were in Camberwell which is the
24:50adjoining borough to Brixton.
24:53So we were there in a couple of minutes
24:54and we were almost first on scene. And
24:57the situation was just brewing. It was
25:00uncomfortable. There was a bit of a
25:02standoff. There had been some
25:03misunderstanding between the largely
25:06local black Afro-Caribbean population
25:09and of course the white police officers.
25:12The backdrop to all of this tension was
25:14that there had been operation swamp
28:01in the
28:01when I got home from the Brixton riots I
28:06decided that that was me and wearing a
28:08uniform done. I was going to get out of
28:10that uniform as soon as I possibly
28:12could.
28:13Some of the officers from the CID had
28:15been making approaches to me and trying
28:17to convince me that that was a career
28:19path I should go down. And literally
28:22I put in my application the following
28:24Monday when I went back to work to get
28:25out of uniform and soon afterwards I was
28:28on the crime squad serving my detective
28:30apprenticeship. I managed to pass my
28:32selection board and in 1982
28:35as
28:36a committed and hard working cop because
28:38I did work very hard I was a brand new
28:41detective posted posted to Kensington
28:44in in central London and that was a very
28:48very different area with a very very
28:50different population to Peckham. You
28:52know, I was now hobnobbing with some of
28:54the poshes.
28:56Um uh although it did have pockets of
28:58social deprivation but it was very very
29:01different and I learned a whole new set
29:03of skills dealing with different crimes.
29:05And and you know the the work is is a
29:08little bit different to walk on the beat
29:10if you like and did it did it you know
29:12at this time you you were obviously a
29:13big QPR fan and you know did did work
29:16and going to football matches like you
29:17said a little bit of the trying to
29:19police football games? Did that ever
29:21kind of mix itself if you like?
29:24Right.
29:25I'll tell you a
29:26a story. I had to stop watching Rangers
29:28for a little while. If we just rewind to
29:30when I was in uniform at Peckham
29:33um I still went every possible game I
29:36could and I would juggle my duties as
29:38much as I could to ensure that I saw
29:40every Rangers game. We were playing
29:42Middlesbrough away and we were night
29:44duty so I finished night duty the
29:46previous night went straight to the
29:48station, King's Cross, slept on the
29:50train, went to the game, and I'd figured
29:52it out that I could get a train back and
29:54pretty much be in time to go back on
29:57night duty without going, you know,
29:59seeing my bed that day, but seeing my
30:01football team.
30:03Anyway, I come out of the game 5 10
30:06minutes early cuz I've got to catch a
30:07particular train to get me back to
30:09London and get me back into night duty.
30:12And as I'm coming out of the game, a
30:14bunch of kids approached me, kids, young
30:16men, and it was the typical "You got the
30:18time, pal?"
30:20Right? And of course, why are they doing
30:21that? Because they want to hear your
30:23accent. And if you're a, you know, soft
30:26southern cockney [ __ ] like they thought
30:27I was,
30:29you know, you're going to get hide in.
30:31So, what could I do? I can't do a
30:33northeast accent. I'm rubbish at
30:34accents.
30:36I kind of knew what was coming. I'm a
30:37serving police officer at the time. I
30:40thought, I'll take me chances.
30:42Um told them what the time was.
30:45And it kicked off. Um well, at the time
30:48I was boxing, so I was pretty fit and I
30:50could throw a right hand up. So, a
30:52couple of them got a lot more than they
30:54bargained for.
30:56But, as it's all kicking off, and I'm
30:58not particularly winning. I mean, I I
31:00did give a a couple some lively
31:03reminders of who they've met, but I'm
31:05not particularly winning this encounter
31:07purely by sheer numbers.
31:09Up pulls a police van, and without
31:12asking any questions whatsoever, they
31:14throw us all in the back of the van.
31:16So, I'm nicked, and I've got to be at
31:18night duty in about 5 hours time.
31:21So,
31:22we get taken to this police station. I
31:24explain the situation eventually when I
31:27get separated from these other
31:30people.
31:31And I pull me warrant card out, explain
31:34the situation. I said, "Look, you know,
31:35I'm
31:36this is not of my making. I've not
31:38committed any crimes here. I've just
31:39acted in self-defense. Can we all please
31:42swiftly move on and can I get a lift
31:44back to the station to catch a train cuz
31:46I'm going to be late for night duty
31:48now."
31:50Long story short, I get back to Peckham
31:52late. Right? They in fact they have to
31:54dispatch a car to come and pick me up
31:56cuz there's no trains. I get them back
31:58to King's Cross so late.
32:00Um so, they send a police car, pick me
32:03up. They go, "What happened to you?" and
32:04this that and the other and where is it
32:06Peckham? Cuz of course, they rang
32:07Peckham police station to check that I
32:09was who I said I was.
32:11Anyway, the following Monday
32:12when I go in for late turn,
32:15we're standing there at
32:17our, you know, our briefing, our daily
32:19kind of, you know, team meeting and
32:21briefing. And it's like, "Blexy,
32:23straight upstairs, see the chief
32:25superintendent." Right? So, this is 19
32:2979 1980.
32:32I go into the chief superintendent's
32:34office.
32:36And
32:37quite frankly, he launches into me
32:41with a telling off the like of which
32:42I've never had before.
32:45All about, you know, how I'm a police
32:47officer. I'm supposed to be a pillar of
32:49society and not some kind of football
32:51hooligan.
32:53And he doesn't really want to hear what
32:54I've got to say.
32:56And consequently, he said to me, and
32:57this is what, you know, senior officers
32:59could do in those days. He said,
33:04"If I ever go to another Queen's Park
33:06Rangers football match, you will be
33:08sacked."
33:10And I
33:12Right.
33:13So, that was me at Rangers done for a
33:15little while
33:16until of course, he left Peckham when I
33:18I left Peckham. And then as soon as I
33:20got to Kensington, which was only a
33:22short hop to Shepherd's Bush anyway, of
33:24course, I was back into Rangers. So, I
33:26had a short period when I quite
33:28literally could not go out at Rangers
33:30for fear of losing my job.
33:32And
33:33did they win?
33:36Right, did we win? Middlesbrough away.
33:38It was the old Ayresome Park in those
33:40days.
33:41It escapes me. I'll have to have a a
33:43look back at home.
33:44We will check that, but I'm sure the
33:46result wasn't the top of the agenda when
33:48you're getting called in today.
33:50wasn't. It certainly wasn't. And there
33:52are so many, literally hundreds and
33:54hundreds of Rangers games over the
33:55years, so I've simply forgotten.
33:58One, because I'm old, and two, because
34:00the games were actually forgettable. And
34:02number three, because, you know, we used
34:04to have a drink on the way to away
34:06games.
34:07Just
34:08a topic of your your your two
34:09superintendents that they hooligan and
34:12and hooliganism and it was a huge part
34:14of you know, not only um European
34:17football, but British football in the
34:19'70s. And and like I have I have some of
34:21the names here and they're still
34:22synonymous, you know, even now thinking
34:24about it and some of the movies and
34:25documentaries that come out. So, there
34:26was the, you know, Leeds Service Crew,
34:28the B Mob, the Charlton, the Millwall
34:30Bushwackers, and probably my most
34:32famous, the the Newcastle Gremlins. You
34:34know, and these were these are, you
34:36know,
34:37um groups of so-called football fans
34:39disguised as criminal thugs. Um and and
34:42you would have Would you have had much
34:43dealings with that when when you would
34:45uh join the police force? Was it a big
34:47issue at the time?
34:48Birmingham City Zulus,
34:51uh West Ham, and their ICF, the Inter
34:53City Firm. And and many other clubs that
34:56had their firms. Yeah, I was there. I
34:58was there every Saturday watching it.
35:01You know? And um it was rampant, and it
35:04was ugly.
35:05And consequently, it put quite a lot of
35:08people
35:09off going to football. The press used to
35:11love to give football hooligans a uh
35:14you know, a literary kicking whenever
35:16they could. And I was there. It was the
35:18days of when
35:20the ambition was to go to an away game
35:23and take the opposition's end.
35:25So, you no scarves, no identifying
35:28features, sneak into the opposition's
35:30end,
35:31and then a couple of minutes before
35:33kickoff or as the teams came out, up go
35:36the arms,
35:38out goes the chant, and it all kicks off
35:40cuz you had to take the opposition's
35:42end. And I was at Loftus Road as a kid
35:45down towards the front. No seating in
35:47those days, not at at the ends, down
35:49towards the front getting a a good
35:51position. And literally, that would
35:54happen and you'd have any other what
35:56whatever opposition it was trying to
35:58take your end, and it would kick off.
36:01And quite often, fans of the opposing
36:03sides who were getting a bit of a
36:05battering would roll literally down the
36:08terraces towards us kids
36:10who were sitting at the front.
36:12And if they were identified as being
36:13part of the oppo,
36:16Yeah, yeah. It It wasn't It wasn't
36:18pretty, and I don't condone any of it,
36:20of course, in any way, shape, or form.
36:22But, it was there. It was a plague on
36:24the game. It is still there. Mhm.
36:26Anybody who thinks that football
36:28hooliganism has gone away is living in
36:30complete and utter denial cuz I can tell
36:32you from my experiences, even of only
36:35doing a rare away game now, but doing
36:38every home game, oh, it's still there.
36:40It hasn't gone away. Yeah, and and you
36:43know, people go to football games
36:44nowadays, it seems to, you know, take
36:46their anger out and and it's sort of
36:47the, you know, almost if you like
36:49culture and and acceptability of it. I
36:51have a few examples here of, you know,
36:53maybe hooliganism at its worst. You
36:55know, maybe for for
36:57you know, younger people that have that
36:58have seen more of these instance. You
37:00know, for example, you know, there's
37:02been, you know, Chris Kirkland was in
37:04goal uh for Sheffield Wednesday at the
37:06time, I think, and one of the Leeds fans
37:07from behind the end came down and
37:09punched him in the face. You know, and I
37:11remember I was actually watching that
37:12game and and all I remember is the
37:14coverage after the game
37:15was them the two guys in the studio,
37:17whoever it was, and they would they just
37:18videoed the fan as he left to go back to
37:21his seat as if nothing had happened. Uh
37:23another example is Jack Grealish being
37:25attacked in the Second City Derby only a
37:27couple of years ago. And like people
37:29might necessarily associate that with
37:31hooliganism, but that it that is sort of
37:33the culture that's around it. And to
37:34think a couple of years ago, you know,
37:36one of, you know, at the time probably
37:37the Championship's best player and now
37:38an England international was was
37:40attacked on the pitch and and attacked
37:42from behind in, you know, unbelievable
37:44circumstances. And now, credit to Jack
37:46Grealish, he he went on, he scored the
37:48winner, and he had the last laugh. But,
37:49you know, to think an instant like that
37:51happened only a couple of years ago. And
37:53you know, there's been some more talk
37:54that hooliganism has has, you know, sort
37:56of died down, but it's still very much
37:58there.
37:59No, it hasn't. The police have got much,
38:01much better at policing it and
38:03controlling it. And now certainly at
38:05Rangers,
38:06um there is a permanent police team, you
38:08know, attached to Rangers, and they know
38:10the fans, and they travel away with
38:11them. Good job, eh? Imagine having that
38:14job. Imagine if it was your team and
38:17you're a uniform police officer. So, you
38:19travel to every away game and get paid
38:21for it and watch the home games for
38:23nothing. Blimey, it's enough to make me
38:25get a warrant card again.
38:27Um but, you know, yeah, they're they're
38:29much, much better at it. Um and when we
38:31come out of
38:33our our grounds, the Kiyan Prince
38:34Foundation Stadium, when we come out
38:37after a game, you know, there are
38:38certain matches where it's going to get
38:40a bit lively. And you know who those
38:42teams are because they will bring a
38:45little crew with them. And some of them
38:47will try and have a tear up. But, the
38:49police are much better at policing it.
38:51We come out the ground, and there will
38:52be a line of officers, and and they will
38:55direct the away fans and separate them
38:58from the home fans. But, of course, it
38:59still kicks off. Football essentially is
39:02a tribal sport. Um and and so, there is
39:06still aggravation from time to time, but
39:09fortunately, nowhere near at the levels
39:12of the 1970s. I'm very glad to say. And
39:16also in in from for for people that
39:18might mightn't don't know, there was a
39:20ban on on English clubs entering UEFA
39:22competitions in 1985. It was a it was
39:24actually posed as an indefinite ban. It
39:26got later stopped in 1990, and that was
39:29due to the the Heysel Stadium disaster.
39:31And it came Margaret Thatcher, who was
39:33PM at the time, she came out and said,
39:34"We we did clean up at home before we
39:36were allowed to go overseas." Do you
39:38have any memories of of those kind of
39:40instance? And you know, this idea of
39:42English fans going abroad to major
39:44tournaments and and some of the the
39:46aggro that caused them and and and and
39:48I'm trying to stay away from the idea
39:50that you know, these are football fans.
39:52These are the criminal thugs who looted
39:54and you know, um stole from from local
39:56businesses wherever they went and and
39:58that's sort of the idea that you know,
39:59these aren't football fans, they're
40:00thugs.
40:02Yeah, they're they're thugs who attach
40:04themselves to a football team.
40:06Um
40:07and yes, of course, Hillsborough, I
40:09remember that tragedy only too well.
40:11Hillsborough, me and my mate who I still
40:13go with was sitting next to each other
40:15at Rangers watching a dreadful turgid
40:18nil-nil
40:20home draw with Middlesbrough, I think,
40:21if I remember rightly. Blooming
40:22Middlesbrough again, anyway. Um yeah,
40:24there we were sitting there and you
40:27Mark, my my mate, always carried a
40:29little portable radio in those days. You
40:31know, there was no mobile phones and
40:33internet.
40:34And so, you would carry a mobile a
40:35little portable radio to hear the other
40:37football results coming in. Um
40:40and and Mark suddenly gives me a nudge
40:42and says, "Somebody's died at
40:44Hillsborough."
40:45Mhm. And I've gone, "Oh, crikey." Mhm.
40:48Uh and then he said,
40:50"Another person's died."
40:52"And another person's died." Mhm.
40:54And there was kind of like a hush went
40:56round the ground cuz there were many
40:57people listening to their portable
40:59radios.
41:00And I turned round at Mark, bearing in
41:02mind at the time, I'm a serving police
41:04officer.
41:05I've been on both ends of policing
41:07football, subjected to it and I did
41:09police a few football matches, but I was
41:12you know, it wasn't really very good for
41:13me. During my ban from going to QPR, I
41:16policed a few football matches at
41:17Crystal Palace
41:19and um
41:20and uh you know,
41:22it wasn't good cuz I'd be there watching
41:25two teams that I didn't like, invariably
41:27with supporters of teams that I didn't
41:28like. So, I wasn't the most engaging
41:31kind of copper.
41:32And uh
41:33forgive me, but if anybody gave me half
41:36an excuse to sling them out of ground,
41:38um I did. But anyway, so I did very few
41:40games, not not very good at policing
41:42football matches. Anyway, back to the
41:43tragedy of Hillsborough.
41:45So, you know, I knew football policing
41:47only too well and I turned round at Mark
41:49and I said, "This is down to the police.
41:52Mhm. This is fundamentally down to the
41:54police."
41:56I said, "Because, you know, it's the
41:57police's job to keep people safe at
41:59football matches. And if people are
42:01dying, it's down to the police. That is
42:03a view that I still hold extremely
42:06strongly to this day. And the way that
42:09the establishment has tried to hide and
42:13mask the truth
42:15and not accept any responsibility for
42:17what happened that day is frankly
42:19shameful. And of course, I've spent a
42:21lot of time in Liverpool recently in
42:24regards to my hunt for Kevin Parlan,
42:25perhaps we'll talk about that later.
42:27Um and I have nothing but admiration and
42:31respect for people who for decades have
42:35tried to establish the truth about how
42:38their loved ones lost their lives. And
42:41let's remember at Hillsborough then and
42:44many, many other grounds, we were caged
42:47like animals. Mhm. Cuz that's what so
42:49many people, particularly I should
42:51imagine Margaret Thatcher, thought we
42:53were. Mhm. You know, and and let's
42:56remember
42:57football
42:58has become the phenomenon that it and
43:01the money-making machine that it is
43:03today, but it wasn't that back in the
43:06day. Back in the day, if you went
43:10to a party and you joined company of
43:13people that weren't football fans and
43:15you said you were a football fan, that
43:17would kill the conversation. You would
43:20automatically be regarded as a thug, a
43:23hooligan and somebody that quite frankly
43:25people didn't want to talk about. The
43:27middle classes only
43:30really discovered football when Gazza
43:33cried at the World Cup in 1990.
43:36Mhm. That is when the middle classes
43:38found football. Mhm. And they went and
43:40bought their replica shirts and all that
43:42kind of other plastic activity that
43:45plastic pretend supporters do. Mhm.
43:47That's when it happened, in my opinion.
43:49Gazza cried, the middle classes found
43:51football. And maybe just going back onto
43:54Hillsborough and you know, that the sort
43:56of the spin-off that came from it, you
43:58know, this that the police labeling it
44:00as drunkenness or hooliganism and you
44:02know, there was the Taylor report that
44:04you know, put a lot of the blame at the
44:05South Yorkshire police. There was
44:06obviously David Duckenfield, but you
44:08know, still
44:09you know, what is it? 30 years on, just
44:11over 30 years on, the emotions are still
44:13so raw for Liverpool fans to to justice
44:16for the 96 campaign
44:18to still is running, you know, and it
44:19seems like you know, what was the worst
44:21disaster in British sport in history,
44:23you know, it still seems to
44:25you know, that little sense of you know,
44:27whatever they could have got out of it,
44:28that little bit of justice or that
44:30little sense of something, that hope,
44:32you know, with with hope in your heart
44:33as as you'll never walk alone goes, it
44:35just seems that you know, they never
44:37quite got that justice.
44:39Yeah, absolutely. And that is because
44:42the establishment
44:44the upper classes, the middle classes,
44:46looks down their noses at football fans.
44:49Look what and I'm not going to name that
44:51newspaper, but look at the front pages
44:54of a particular rag. Look what they ran.
44:57You know, the
44:59within hours, they are apportioning
45:00blame without knowing any of the facts.
45:03They take for as gospel what the police
45:06tell them cuz they in the early hours
45:08were conveniently pumping it out that it
45:11was all their fault. It was all the
45:13fault of the supporters. Nothing to do
45:16with people who did or didn't open
45:18gates. Nothing to do with anybody that
45:20herded people in
45:22in worse environment than you would herd
45:25cattle, who are then fenced in, caged in
45:28and cannot escape and consequently
45:30perish.
45:31I mean, it was the establishment at its
45:34very most untrustworthy
45:37worst and it still isn't over.
45:40Mhm. The story still has
45:43legs to run.
45:45And it will because there are some quite
45:48frankly brilliant people on Merseyside
45:51and beyond
45:53who rightly will not let it go and nor
45:57should they. Mhm.
45:59And yeah, and you do feel that sense
46:00even like when you see photos of you
46:03know, campaigns in the past or you know,
46:05that connection that Everton had and
46:06there's that unbelievably famous image
46:09of the Liverpool and Everton mascot
46:11wearing Liverpool wearing number nine
46:13and the Everton wearing six and that
46:15connection between
46:16Liverpool and Everton and Merseyside is
46:18just so special and and you do think
46:20that you know, that connection
46:22is born out of the the tragedy that was
46:24Hillsborough and maybe moving on to
46:26something more close to home for our
46:28Just forgive me one moment and I'm I'm
46:30I'm not being discourteous by looking
46:32away from you. No problem. But I tidied
46:33up my office about a month ago and I
46:36suspect I must have tidied it into a box
46:40for safekeeping in the loft. But I had
46:43that
46:44fundraising single with those two kids
46:47in the Liverpool and Everton shirts. I
46:49bought that single on a on a CD
46:51and I must have put it up in the loft as
46:53a safe safekeeping. It's a campaign that
46:56I keep a very close watching eye upon
46:58because I was a football supporter. On
47:01another day, another game, that could
47:03have been me.
47:04You know, and and and
47:07it's it was ghastly and what what the
47:09establishment did
47:11um to the families
47:13uh you know, in in the aftermath of that
47:16is a is a deep, deep stain upon the
47:18contemporary history of our nation. And
47:20and you think every time you hear You'll
47:22Never Walk Alone being sung at Anfield,
47:24there's always that connection to to the
47:2696
47:28that that lost their lives at the
47:29Hillsborough disaster. And look, moving
47:31on to a a different issue and
47:34six years on from from Hillsborough and
47:36in 1995, Ireland hosted England in a
47:38friendly at the old Lansdowne Road and
47:40it was a year before England were due to
47:42host, well, England hosted Euro 96 and
47:45it was a friendly between Terry
47:46Venables' England and you know, the
47:48World Cup winner for England, that was
47:50Jack Charlton, who was the Ireland
47:51manager at the time and he was
47:53you know, being called Judas and all
47:54that and it was sort of a an all an an
47:56all merciful shame of a night, really
47:59and that happened at Lansdowne Road. Do
48:01you have any memories of that, you know,
48:03that the the match being called off
48:04after 25 or 30 minutes?
48:08Well, first of all, before I I get on to
48:10talk about the thugs that scuppered the
48:13game,
48:14um
48:15I I
48:16I just have to mention Jack Charlton.
48:19Mhm. Yeah. You know, and I felt his loss
48:23only just a few weeks ago, very very
48:25deeply. Mhm. He'd been a constant
48:29you know, in my life in so many ways.
48:32Uh revered, of course, because he was a
48:34World Cup winner. And and I yes, I
48:36accept I don't remember that that day,
48:38that game.
48:39Um but what he then went on to do, you
48:42know, as a towering center half of dirty
48:45leads
48:46who
48:47you know, I think we all begrudgingly
48:50respected cuz they were such a fine team
48:52under Don Revie and I reckon I can
48:54probably name most of that side. Mhm.
48:56But an astonishing, wonderful player.
48:59Um tremendous manager. Blimey,
49:01Middlesbrough comes to mind again. He
49:03did I think he got Middlesbrough
49:04promoted as well, didn't he? And then
49:06what he did for the Irish side,
49:09I mean, was just remarkable. Mhm.
49:13Absolutely remarkable. I know he said
49:15some things in later life that some
49:17people might construe as being a bit
49:18clumsy and all that stuff. Um and and
49:21and so be it, but but I remember him
49:23fondly. He gave me a lot of really
49:25terrific memories and and we all had a
49:28very soft spot for that Ray Houghton
49:31team, you know, with all of the Steve
49:33Stauntons, wasn't it? And you you
49:35all all the guys in that side that did
49:38so brilliantly at the World Cup under
49:40under Jack's stewardship. So,
49:43may Jack Charlton rest in peace. Bless
49:45him. Absolutely. And I think it was only
49:47a when his loss was was announced in the
49:50Irish media that people started to think
49:52back on not only the legacy of the
49:54football team and and what he did in
49:56making Ireland reach those major
49:58tournaments, the World Cups, the Euros,
49:59but I think it was the attitude that he
50:01changed in in Irish society that, you
50:04know, the Irish people, the Irish
50:07mantra, if you like, is we were good
50:08enough and and we were able to to
50:11dominate on the world stage, if you
50:12like. And I think a lot of,
50:14you know, social economical depression
50:16was around that time and
50:18and sort of gave the whole country a
50:19lift. And when you hear the passing and
50:21you see the public outcry in England
50:22because of the World Cup winner and, you
50:24know, his connection with his brother
50:25Bobby and everything, I mean, it was
50:26just such a sad passing. And on that
50:29night, you sort of saw the best of Jack
50:31Charlton. He kind of stood up to to what
50:33had happened. He was very vocal in the
50:35press about, you know, it being a real
50:36shame. And that night in in in '95 at
50:39Lansdowne.
50:40Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A towering man in in
50:44so so many regards. Yeah. And it was
50:47kind of like a victory for thuggery that
50:49evening, unfortunately.
50:52The police, once again, have got to look
50:54themselves in the mirror cuz it's their
50:56job.
50:57It's their job. And I know football
50:59clubs don't like to pay police officers
51:01to be inside the stadium cuz cuz then
51:03they do have to pick up the bill.
51:04Whereas, if they're outside the stadium,
51:06they don't pick up the bill. You know,
51:09and and yeah, just a just,
51:11unfortunately, a victory for the
51:13ugliness of thuggery.
51:16And I'm I'm glad that lessons have been
51:19learned. Stadiums have been rebuilt. And
51:22and and we move on. And I have no qualms
51:25about taking my kids to football. I know
51:28I can see when aggravation is kicking
51:29off or or when it's brewing, you know,
51:31cuz I've been going to football all my
51:33life. And I've been taking my three sons
51:36since they were nippers. And I mean real
51:38nippers. Since they could barely well,
51:41just about walk and talk, I've been
51:43taking them to watch Rangers.
51:44And so and and I will. And I've taken my
51:47wife to football on very very rare
51:49occasions, I hasten to add. And I've
51:51taken my mom to football on very very
51:55rare occasions. Um, but yeah, I would
51:57have no qualms about taking anybody to
51:59football now. If you know what you're
52:01doing and you know where the aggravation
52:03may stem. And if you're not looking for
52:05it,
52:06you know, then it's a safe environment
52:08to go and enjoy the beautiful game.
52:11And moving on a year after that was Euro
52:14'96 and a lot of people speak about, you
52:17know, England and and, you know, the
52:19hurt of maybe not winning it. But do you
52:20have any memories of that that that
52:22summer of football that is so defined in
52:24English football, you know, this idea
52:26that football was coming home? Have you
52:28any memories of that?
52:30Yeah, I do. You know, the great tune.
52:31That was a lot of fun when it all
52:33Baddiel and Skinner and the Lightning
52:35Seeds. That was
52:37and they reprised that, didn't they, not
52:38so long ago.
52:40Yeah, terrific tune. And of course,
52:42Gazza with that goal. I mean, well, I
52:45mean, just an indelible memory.
52:47Absolutely indelible memory together
52:49with the celebration, of course.
52:52Um,
52:52yeah. Yeah, great tournament. But as per
52:54usual, England didn't win it.
52:56End of.
52:58You know, the well, and I have, quite
53:00frankly, watched so many dire England
53:03teams over the years.
53:05Um, the
53:06the yeah, it's average. I've always been
53:08club before country, to be honest with
53:10you, when it comes to supporting. You
53:12know, I will do anything to watch
53:14Rangers.
53:15Um, and and never want to miss a game if
53:17I can possibly help it. England,
53:20um, take it or leave it, to be perfectly
53:22frank with you. I don't know whether
53:23that sounds distinctly unpatriotic of
53:26me. You know, I'll watch it. Clearly,
53:28I'll watch it. Um, and I've got a mate
53:30down at a cricket club that does England
53:32home and away.
53:34I'd love to be a pound note behind him
53:36if you know what I mean for what he does
53:37doing England home and away. Quite. He's
53:39seen some stuff as well.
53:41Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He really has.
53:43And fair play to him. You know, that's
53:45that's his passion. That's what he does.
53:47I can't believe it. I mean, I I don't
53:49earn as much in money as he earns in air
53:51miles.
53:52Or did. And and good luck to him. But
53:55yeah, that's that's for me, it's always
53:58the the love of my club will always
54:00outstrip the love of my country's team.
54:03You you talked about Gazza there. Now,
54:04there's another player that was sort of,
54:06sorry, vilified in the media, if you
54:07like. And and something I want to get
54:09touched on is the campaign that Marcus
54:11Rashford is doing at the moment now. For
54:13for those that don't know, he's a huge
54:15advocate of getting free meals to to
54:17school children, to end child poverty,
54:20to end
54:21the this idea of children going hungry.
54:24And and even when you see this this
54:26person who is, you know, at the peak of
54:28his powers footballly, um, he's he's
54:31just scored the winner in the Champions
54:32League game away to Paris. You know,
54:34he's he's the starting striker for
54:36Manchester United. And yet, this person
54:38is doing so much good and and you can't
54:41say he's not. That even stuff in the
54:43media and stuff on I know Twitter is is
54:45a completely different platform. But
54:46see, even you see some of the stuff
54:48around Marcus Rashford, you do wonder,
54:50you know, is this another Paul
54:52Gascoigne, if you like, because Marcus
54:53Rashford is doing unbelievably work both
54:55on and off the pitch.
54:57Build them up to bring them down.
55:00Is what the media does, doesn't it?
55:02It builds people up,
55:04makes them heroes, and then revels
55:07when they discover their shortcomings
55:09and everything comes crashing down
55:11around them.
55:12It's 2020, of course it is. I hope that
55:15Marcus Rashford has a very shrewd team
55:19around him. And I'm sure he must have.
55:22He appears to me to be a mighty fine
55:25young man, let alone a very very good
55:28footballer.
55:29But there will be snakes out there. The
55:33vultures will be circling for Marcus, if
55:36I can sound all familiar and say that,
55:38use that, you know, his first name. I've
55:39never met him, of course. Um,
55:42the vultures will be circling. Those
55:44journalistic vultures looking for his
55:48first mistake.
55:50And they will latch onto it like you
55:52will not believe and do a complete and
55:55utter hatchet job on him.
55:58So, Marcus appears to me to be very
56:00level-headed, very sensible, mature
56:03beyond his years. I just hope that those
56:06around him
56:07uh, ensure that
56:09um,
56:11such a situation cannot arise, to be
56:13perfectly honest with you. Is when when
56:15the world starts turning properly again,
56:17I'm sure Marcus will enjoy an evening
56:19out with his friends and probably want
56:22to go to a club. Why not? He's a young
56:24man. It's what young people do.
56:27I'm old and I'm still not going to a
56:28club.
56:29Um, you know,
56:30but I just hope that he literally quite
56:33literally has a team with him. So,
56:35whereby if he goes to a nightclub, for
56:37example, some wise, seasoned, calm, but
56:42firm
56:43bodyguards, essentially, close
56:44protection operatives, go with him.
56:47You know, he can afford to pay them. And
56:49that they can have the ability to look
56:52around the corner, to anticipate trouble
56:54if it's coming,
56:56and stop it. It's always been used me
56:59why footballers do not actually employ
57:01more people. I know some do cuz I know
57:04people in the industry. But why other
57:06highly paid sports stars and prominent
57:10people do not employ sensible,
57:14mature,
57:15firm and polite, worldly wise security
57:19staff
57:21so that they can enjoy their evening
57:23with their friends. Not be cut off from
57:25the public. I'm not saying that. I'm not
57:27saying, you know, hire the VIP area and
57:31never
57:32get in touch with, you know, your
57:34people. You know, I get that. People
57:36want to do that. And it's a lovely thing
57:38cuz most of the public are wonderful
57:41and engage beautifully with prominent
57:43people. I
57:46know that from my Z-lister status. I've
57:49had people in the street come up and
57:50meet me and greet me. And they've been
57:52an absolute joy. And I've always found
57:54time for them. Without prominent and
57:56you're Marcus Rashford or you're Gazza
57:59or you're whoever you might be, there
58:01will always be some clown wanting to
58:03take a pop at you, have a go at you,
58:06and and cause you some aggravation. So,
58:09yeah, I've long questioned why
58:11why, you know, that Of course, you can
58:13you can hire all the knuckle dragging,
58:17bone headed bodyguards in the world that
58:19you want. But people with a bit of life
58:21experience who can talk to people,
58:24um, are a rather different entity. And
58:27I've often wondered why
58:29prominent people don't employ such
58:32operatives that can save them
58:34aggravation.
58:35Well, I suppose that it Marcus Rashford
58:37is probably one of the the best stories
58:39to come out of this year, 2020. But just
58:41to look back on something as well. And
58:43you know, people like even my age, I
58:45vividly remember the London Olympics of
58:472012, the Super Saturday that came with
58:49it. And you know, all the
58:52everything that came with the Olympics
58:53and it left an an indelible mark on on
58:55people. You would have experienced, you
58:57know, previous Olympics to to 2012. Does
59:002012 rank as, you know, one of your most
59:02favorite?
59:04It was absolutely
59:06wonderful.
59:08Um, my
59:10two youngest boys were
59:1310 and 11. So, my wife and the boys, we
59:16got tickets for certain events. None of
59:18your flagship events, you know what I
59:19mean. We went into ballet and all that
59:21stuff. But we got tickets for race
59:23walking.
59:24And we went to the race walk cuz I used
59:25to do that in the police. And I was half
59:27decent at it. And an Irish man got
59:29fourth and later got bronze, Rob
59:31Heffernan from Cork. So, I think a lot
59:32of people will actually remember that
59:34and they walked around some of London's
59:35most famous attractions as well. It was
59:38It was special.
59:39It was. It was brilliant. It was
59:40wonderful. We got tickets to go to the
59:44stadium for a day of the Paralympics,
59:47which was absolutely
59:49wonderful. Really really wonderful. And
59:52I went to the final of the football at
59:54Wembley.
59:55Um which was which was terrific. Um so,
59:58you know, we had some indelible memories
1:00:01of the Paralympics. Um the guy I played
1:00:04for give me I've forgotten his name. He
1:00:07won the 200 m for Great Britain. And as
1:00:09he came off the bend, he was about fifth
1:00:11or sixth and I thought all his chances
1:00:13were over. But as he hit the straight,
1:00:14he was like greased lightning. And he
1:00:17won the 200 m and that was wonderful.
1:00:19And huge apologies to you, sir, for not
1:00:21remembering your name. That that your
1:00:23name that is shameful of me. Um but
1:00:25yeah, it was just wonderful. The
1:00:26facilities were brilliant. Um the the
1:00:29the action was gripping. The atmosphere
1:00:33was phenomenal. It felt like there was a
1:00:36common purpose for everybody to go out
1:00:39and enjoy themselves. And of course,
1:00:41there were no homeless people on the
1:00:43streets of London. Hm. Now, isn't that a
1:00:46thing?
1:00:48When you have the Olympics coming to our
1:00:50capital city, suddenly the resources can
1:00:53be found to clear all the unfortunate
1:00:56homeless from the streets.
1:00:58And they're now back in record numbers.
1:01:00Why can't we do that all the time for
1:01:03everyone?
1:01:04Just to go back, it was Richard
1:01:05Whitehead um who won the Oh, thank you.
1:01:08Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Whitehead,
1:01:10profound apologies if you happen to be
1:01:12listening or watching. Please please, I
1:01:15beg your forgiveness. Um but yeah, all
1:01:18the homeless people off the streets.
1:01:19Funny that, ain't it? For the Olympics.
1:01:21Hm. And it And it does seem when when,
1:01:23you know, European championships and you
1:01:25know, World Cups come to places, uh you
1:01:28know, South Africa being a bit of an
1:01:29example of that where, you know, this
1:01:31the country gets a glistening um light
1:01:34on them. Everyone looks at the the the
1:01:36the full stadiums, the atmosphere.
1:01:38There's always a great um carnival
1:01:40festival vibe at those events. And then
1:01:42when when the when the cameras go and
1:01:44the fans go and, you know, things get
1:01:46built down again and and all of a sudden
1:01:48you're, you know, not back to square one
1:01:50if you like. But Is that something that
1:01:51you would notice in London, places in
1:01:54and around the Olympic stadium and
1:01:56places that hosted events where, you
1:01:57know, the the spotlight was shined on
1:02:00that part of London and all of a sudden
1:02:02when a month or two after the
1:02:04Paralympics and everything's gone and it
1:02:05sort of reverts back to to normal?
1:02:08When the show leaves town, eh?
1:02:10Yeah.
1:02:10Yeah. When it all pulls out of town,
1:02:12then, you know, but I mean I mean the
1:02:14legacy of the Olympics in in some ways
1:02:17is a strong one.
1:02:18There were some great facilities built
1:02:21which are, you know, continually being
1:02:23used and that's a great thing. It was a
1:02:26part of East London that needed
1:02:28regeneration. The park is great. My
1:02:31youngest son regularly runs a 10K round
1:02:34there on a Saturday morning. Um and we
1:02:36go there and we watch it and we enjoy it
1:02:39and the facilities are still lovely and
1:02:41and well maintained.
1:02:43I've got a lot of West Ham supporters in
1:02:45my life. And they have my utmost
1:02:48sympathy because I kid you not and I
1:02:49don't want to sound like too much of a
1:02:51smart ass here, but please forgive me. I
1:02:53I'll tell you when we were sitting there
1:02:55with my boys, right? They're 10 and 11,
1:02:57but they've already been going to
1:02:58Rangers for six or seven years. So,
1:03:01they've watched a lot of football for
1:03:02their tender ages. We've sat there in
1:03:04that stadium watching the Paralympics
1:03:06game. This is a brilliant athletic
1:03:09stadium. Absolutely brilliant.
1:03:12But it would be a rubbish football
1:03:14stadium.
1:03:16Yeah, and we discussed it and we all
1:03:17agreed. You wouldn't want to watch
1:03:18football there. So, I really kind of
1:03:20feel sorry for my West Ham supporting
1:03:22friends, of which I have quite a few,
1:03:24um who have to
1:03:26suffer that as a home ground in a
1:03:29largely sort of sterilized atmosphere
1:03:32compared to what was the lovely old
1:03:34Boleyn Ground, Upton Park, with all the
1:03:37lovely boozers near it and, you know,
1:03:39I've been going up to Park for years
1:03:41with my West Ham mates and we used to go
1:03:43into a West Ham pub before a West Ham
1:03:45Rangers game and have a drink and have a
1:03:47laugh and pull each other's leg and and
1:03:49all of that. And I kind of I feel for
1:03:51them cuz I don't think the London
1:03:52Stadium is
1:03:54is is
1:03:55very much at all really when it comes to
1:03:57a place to watch football. And it was
1:03:59funny at the time when
1:04:01West Ham were going for it, Tottenham
1:04:02put in a bid. And you think of
1:04:04everything that's happened there with
1:04:05the Tottenham stadium. You know, if
1:04:06Tottenham had won that, uh they would
1:04:08have moved across the city. Everyone
1:04:10knows that, but
1:04:11I think the idea of of West Ham being
1:04:14back at the Boleyn Ground, there was
1:04:15always something special about Upton
1:04:16Park when you saw those games. And I
1:04:18think maybe even for the West Ham fans,
1:04:20it was only that last game against
1:04:21Manchester United that really showed
1:04:24that, you know, they were going to miss
1:04:25it. And I think they got sold, you know,
1:04:27if you like, a false dream. And and that
1:04:29might be what just the the nature of
1:04:31football. You want more fans in the
1:04:32ground, more revenue, more signings and
1:04:34all. But I think that West Ham
1:04:35themselves and I think the Premier
1:04:36League, if you like, sort of lost
1:04:38something by by Upton Park being knocked
1:04:40to the ground.
1:04:42Well, you know, that whole Gold Sullivan
1:04:45Brady out campaign really has some some
1:04:48legs. They are extremely unpopular. I
1:04:51would imagine that West Ham's, quite
1:04:53frankly, wonderful performances on the
1:04:55pitch recently might have uh
1:04:57dulled some of that. I don't know. I
1:04:59don't know. I'm I'm really don't know of
1:05:00course it recently. But yeah, you
1:05:03I think one of the best things that ever
1:05:05happened to Tottenham in retrospect is
1:05:08the fact that they didn't win that bid
1:05:09because I've got a Tottenham supporting
1:05:11mate who's a season ticket holder.
1:05:13And of course, he only went just a
1:05:15handful of times before lockdown was
1:05:17imposed. But he absolutely loves that
1:05:21new stadium and says it is truly
1:05:24amazing. And he's promised to take me
1:05:26there one day.
1:05:27Um so, I I look forward to that.
1:05:29The best thing is it's, you know, backed
1:05:31onto the old White Hart Lane. So, the
1:05:33memories have gone to the the rituals of
1:05:34the same pub, the the same bus stop, all
1:05:36that sort of thing rings true. Look,
1:05:39Peter, you've been amazing with your
1:05:40time. And what I really want to get onto
1:05:41this topic now because you are the man
1:05:43that's hunting Kevin Parle. When you
1:05:45hear the name Kevin Parle and you might
1:05:47just expect a
1:05:48a tell the listener who mightn't
1:05:50necessarily know about this guy, what
1:05:52does what does he mean to you at the
1:05:54moment? Is it that steely determination
1:05:55is of I'm going to catch him?
1:05:58Uh well, thank you for asking uh this
1:06:01question and bringing me on to the
1:06:03subject of Kevin Parle because it is now
1:06:05my life's work to find this man. If we
1:06:08could just rewind to February of 2019,
1:06:12Absolutely. um I left the TV show called
1:06:14Hunted. I I left the show and I was
1:06:17deciding what my next major project
1:06:18would be. And my publishers had said,
1:06:20"Yes, you can write another book if you
1:06:22get the right subject material." And I
1:06:24was thinking, "What am I going to do?"
1:06:25And I thought, "Well, despite the fact
1:06:27that, you know, I've written plays for
1:06:29BBC radio 4 and I've written books and
1:06:32all of that, I am best known for being
1:06:34that bloke who used to hunt pretend
1:06:37fugitives on the telly in an
1:06:38entertainment show." That's how That's
1:06:40how I knew you originally.
1:06:42Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
1:06:44And I accept that and I I loved being a
1:06:46part of the show and it was great and
1:06:47I've got wonderful memories and it was
1:06:48lovely to entertain so many people. Um
1:06:51or be a part of entertaining so many
1:06:53people. Um
1:06:55so, I'm deciding what my next major
1:06:56project will be. I'd written about
1:06:58unsolved murders with my previous couple
1:07:00of books, all available on Amazon,
1:07:02people.
1:07:03And I thought, "Right. Now, let's
1:07:06combine my skill set,
1:07:09my experience,
1:07:11my contacts, what I'm known for, and now
1:07:15go and hunt a real fugitive."
1:07:18And believe you me, they do not come any
1:07:22more wanted than 6 ft 6
1:07:27broadly built
1:07:30Liverpudlian
1:07:33Kevin Parle. His image is appearing on
1:07:35the YouTube video, but we're going to
1:07:37post all our stuff on social media.
1:07:41We're going to link everything in the
1:07:42description about Kevin Parle. Um Yeah.
1:07:45He's a Liverpudlian, as you said, but
1:07:47he's wanted in connection with with a
1:07:49double murder or sorry, with with two
1:07:51separate murders. One, I think, you
1:07:53know, I don't I don't think either is,
1:07:55you know, even better than the other.
1:07:57Both horrendous.
1:07:58Um one was a 16-year-old Liam Kelly in
1:08:002004.
1:08:02Uh maybe you might start us off by
1:08:03talking about Liam and then there's also
1:08:05the 22-year-old mom of three, Lucy
1:08:07Hargreaves, in 2005. And this man is
1:08:09wanted in connection with both of them.
1:08:11Maybe just tell us a little bit about
1:08:12Liam Kelly. Um because that's at 16,
1:08:15it's it's it's horrendous, isn't it?
1:08:17Yeah, and I'm going to unashamedly
1:08:19reinforce that fact. Even though you've
1:08:21mentioned it twice, Liam was 16. He was
1:08:25a kid. A child.
1:08:28And of course, I
1:08:30you know, I've been hunting Parle for 18
1:08:32months now. I've spent many many weeks
1:08:33in Liverpool and many other places as
1:08:36well. Um and I've spoken to people that
1:08:38knew Liam. And none of them have
1:08:40described him to me as being a model
1:08:43student.
1:08:45Well, nor was I when I was 16. But Liam
1:08:49was blasted to death with a shotgun and
1:08:51consequently denied the right to grow,
1:08:55to mature, to enter manhood, to find a
1:08:58partner, to have a family, to provide
1:09:01for by doing a legitimate day's work.
1:09:03Denied all of that because he was gunned
1:09:06down in the street. Now, three people
1:09:10have appeared in court in connection
1:09:11with Liam's murder.
1:09:13Um one got a life sentence for murder,
1:09:16but the court was told that Kevin Parle
1:09:19pulled the trigger. Kevin Parle is
1:09:22unconvicted.
1:09:23Right? Let me just say that. He's not
1:09:25convicted of either crime. He is wanted
1:09:28for both of these ghastly murders, and I
1:09:30need to reinforce that. But a court was
1:09:32told Powell pulled the trigger. One
1:09:35other person
1:09:36convicted of murder, one person
1:09:38convicted of assisting Powell by burning
1:09:41clothing and disposing of phones, and
1:09:44another person convicted of attempting
1:09:46to pervert the course of justice by
1:09:48providing a false alibi statement for
1:09:50Powell, which is actually what led or
1:09:53forced the police into bailing Powell
1:09:55because he was nicked in the early
1:09:57stages of the inquiry, so they were
1:09:59forced into bailing him while they
1:10:01checked out that false alibi, and of
1:10:03course Powell was never to be seen
1:10:04again. Kevin Powell
1:10:07must be found. He will be found. Now,
1:10:11the second murder, if I may,
1:10:13we fast forward from June of 2004,
1:10:16Liam's murder, to August of 2005.
1:10:20A 22-year-old
1:10:22mother of three young children called
1:10:25Lucy Hargreaves is on her sofa at home
1:10:29watching the television under a blanket.
1:10:32Three men force their way into her
1:10:35house, and she is blasted to death with
1:10:39a shotgun.
1:10:40A 22-year-old
1:10:42young woman, entirely innocent,
1:10:45unconnected to any criminality.
1:10:49Unfortunately,
1:10:51her life partner, a man called Gary
1:10:54Campbell, who was upstairs with their
1:10:56youngest child in bed,
1:10:58um he had been involved in a fatal car
1:11:01accident some 12 years earlier where a
1:11:044-year-old child had been killed, and a
1:11:06court was told that the motive for the
1:11:09attack was revenge on
1:11:11Gary Campbell, but that has never been
1:11:13proven. Let me make it clear.
1:11:16Powell, once again, very much wanted for
1:11:18that crime.
1:11:19Uh I've I've met many people that knew
1:11:21Lucy, neighbors and others, and they
1:11:24tell me that she was as beautiful on the
1:11:26inside as she was on the outside. The
1:11:29fact that Kevin Powell remains on the
1:11:31run for both of these ghastly crimes is
1:11:35in itself a travesty. He needs to be
1:11:38found, arrested, and put before a court
1:11:41of law so he can answer the allegations
1:11:44that are made against him. That's what
1:11:46my life is dedicated to. We have a BBC
1:11:49podcast,
1:11:51um which has proved to be very popular.
1:11:53Very popular, yeah.
1:11:55But, yeah, over 2 and 1/2 million
1:11:56downloads and climbing every day.
1:11:59Um it's called Manhunt: Finding Kevin
1:12:01Powell. It's on the BBC Sounds platform
1:12:04and many others, I understand it. Uh
1:12:07it's won an award, proved very popular.
1:12:09Please, please have a listen to it.
1:12:12And my book was published last month. My
1:12:15book is called Manhunt, but it is a very
1:12:18different vehicle from the podcast.
1:12:21Don't think if you've listened to the
1:12:22podcast, the book has nothing for you.
1:12:24As some of the reviews that have been
1:12:26posted online will bear out, they're
1:12:28different different things, and you can
1:12:31get an awful lot from the book that you
1:12:33don't get from the podcast and vice
1:12:35versa. Uh there is a uh a website which
1:12:39is currently selling Manhunt, the book,
1:12:42for only £4. Um and if you would be kind
1:12:45enough to post that link, it's called
1:12:48odonuk.com. Um you you can pick it up
1:12:50for only £4, which is quite frankly
1:12:53astonishing. Um but but and and you
1:12:56know, as a writer, why would I publicize
1:12:58my books at the cheapest possible
1:13:00website? Well, this is about Powell, not
1:13:04profit. Yeah. And the more we spread the
1:13:06word, the more people become aware of
1:13:08Powell and the crimes he's wanted for,
1:13:10the the more we shrink the world, and it
1:13:12is my ambition to squeeze the globe so
1:13:15tightly that eventually his 6'6" head
1:13:18pops up somewhere and law enforcement
1:13:20can slap the handcuffs on. And and and
1:13:22like you said, you're you're finding
1:13:24this man to put him before court and to
1:13:27bring justice to to Liam and Lucy, but
1:13:29you you've got pretty close and you feel
1:13:32like you're onto something. There's been
1:13:34a couple of different incidents, maybe
1:13:35you might talk on your trip to Spain,
1:13:37but maybe first
1:13:38the stuff in and around your house and
1:13:40your bedroom and and sort of once you've
1:13:42focused your mind on Kevin Powell, you
1:13:44you believe he's alive because of some
1:13:46some of these things that have happened.
1:13:49He is alive. I'm telling you he's alive.
1:13:52Don't believe the convenient urban myth
1:13:56that some people propagate about him
1:13:58being dead, chopped into bits and slung
1:14:00in the Mediterranean. That is not the
1:14:02case. He is alive.
1:14:05The last 18 months while I've been
1:14:07hunting him have been quite remarkable.
1:14:09I've been on one heck of a journey,
1:14:11which I've of course I've I've written
1:14:13them and broadcasted about. Some people
1:14:17want to
1:14:18prevent me, stop me, frighten me,
1:14:20intimidate me
1:14:22uh to stop me doing what I'm doing. Why?
1:14:24Why would they do that, I wonder? Mhm.
1:14:26Ah, because they've got Kevin Powell's
1:14:28best interests at heart, because they're
1:14:30a bit concerned, because they know that
1:14:32I'm never going to give up, and because
1:14:34they know he's very much alive. Yes, I
1:14:37suspect that that is probably their
1:14:39motives. That's why they've posted
1:14:41pictures of my house online on social
1:14:43media. In fact, on one occasion, they
1:14:46posted a picture of my house together
1:14:48with an accurate description of the
1:14:50bedroom that I sleep in. Well done,
1:14:53Sherlock, a career best bit of detective
1:14:55work. You're not going to put me off.
1:14:57You're not going to stop me. You're not
1:14:59going to detract me. You're not going to
1:15:00frighten or intimidate me into giving up
1:15:03hunting Kevin Powell. He must be found,
1:15:05and he will be found. Exactly. Uh and
1:15:08like you said, he will be found, and
1:15:09it's it's sort of you you've if you like
1:15:12you've put your
1:15:13almost your reputation, if you like,
1:15:14underlying in order to stop Kevin
1:15:16Powell, and like you said, it's Powell
1:15:18not profit, so we urge everyone to
1:15:20really have a look at this campaign.
1:15:21We'll post out everything in our episode
1:15:23description. It'll be up on our social
1:15:24media. And and maybe just to get a sense
1:15:26of, you know, sort of things about him.
1:15:29He's distinctively tall. You've also had
1:15:32that uh encounter in Spain where they
1:15:34described him as oh, big Kev, I think it
1:15:36was. Do you want to just talk Kevin,
1:15:37yeah?
1:15:38Tall Kevin. Do you want to discuss that?
1:15:40Yeah, a number of very courageous people
1:15:43have come forward and told me what they
1:15:45know, and people continue to do that.
1:15:47And I would urge you, if you have
1:15:49information about Kevin Powell, and I
1:15:51don't mind if it's dated stuff, going
1:15:53back, you know, we've gone back as far
1:15:54as his primary school years and all of
1:15:56that, because past behavior is often an
1:15:59indicator of future behavior. So,
1:16:01however dated the information may be,
1:16:04please, please ring me. Um I could not
1:16:06be more contactable. Um I'm on all you
1:16:10know, I'm on Twitter, Instagram,
1:16:12Facebook, LinkedIn as Peter Bleksley,
1:16:15unusual spelling of my name, b l e k s l
1:16:18e y. Um I've got a phone that never
1:16:21leaves my side. Can I give that number,
1:16:23please?
1:16:23Absolutely, yeah.
1:16:24Okay. 07908
1:16:29617
1:16:32694.
1:16:35Could not be more contactable. Website
1:16:38peterbleksley.com.
1:16:40You know, the
1:16:41and email addresses and all of that,
1:16:43they're all out there. I'm so
1:16:45contactable. Let me tell you this.
1:16:47The people that are harboring and
1:16:50funding Kevin Powell
1:16:53uh form part
1:16:56of
1:16:57a global network of criminality. Mhm.
1:17:00And if I were to say this, and forgive
1:17:02me, I'm not being coy, and I'm not
1:17:04trying to be smart or disrespectful to
1:17:06your listeners and your viewers, far
1:17:08from it, because I would urge them to
1:17:10help me just by being my eyes and ears
1:17:12and reading and hearing about Powell and
1:17:14raising awareness. Let me say this.
1:17:18I am extremely happy
1:17:20to be broadcasting on your podcast, and
1:17:23thank you once again, to your audience.
1:17:27Think of the geography of where your
1:17:29audience is largely based. I'm very
1:17:31happy to be reaching your audience, and
1:17:34I would urge people to please, you know,
1:17:37listen, read about Powell, um and and
1:17:40tell me what you know. We all know that
1:17:43organized crime have global links. We
1:17:46all know that. The world is is a lot
1:17:48smaller. Criminality operates very
1:17:50differently to how it did back in my
1:17:53day. Um but yeah, I've been to many
1:17:55places, Liverpool numerous times,
1:17:57Manchester, Warrington, Spain, a couple
1:18:00of places that I can't tell you at the
1:18:01moment. Um all in my hunt for Powell.
1:18:04And when we were in Spain, we had a very
1:18:06interesting experience. I'd been told by
1:18:09people that he frequents
1:18:12a cannabis club. Now, in Spain,
1:18:15there are these cannabis clubs or
1:18:17cannabis associations. You pay a
1:18:19membership fee, anything from 20 to 100
1:18:22euros, show some photographic ID, and
1:18:25prove that you are a local resident, and
1:18:27you can join one of these clubs, and you
1:18:28can go there and smoke cannabis in the
1:18:31club. You can't buy it, so it can't be
1:18:33dealt in there or anything like that,
1:18:35but you can go and smoke weed if that's
1:18:38your thing. Um
1:18:40he We went to this club that had been
1:18:42identified to us, and it was closed for
1:18:45building work according to a sign on an
1:18:47on a piece of A4 on the front door. And
1:18:49as me and Mark, my beloved podcast
1:18:51editor,
1:18:52uh were standing by the door, Mark with
1:18:54his microphone ready to talk to me about
1:18:57what my thoughts and feelings were about
1:18:59this place and it being closed, two
1:19:01young men popped out of the door,
1:19:02literally, took us by surprise.
1:19:05Uh Mediterranean looking. Um we had a
1:19:08conversation with them, and they asked
1:19:10what we were doing. I said I was looking
1:19:11for Kevin, and they went, "Oh, tall
1:19:13Kevin."
1:19:14At which point I was extremely
1:19:16interested, as you can imagine. Bearing
1:19:18in mind Powell is 6'6". I said, "Oh,
1:19:20yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, tall
1:19:21Kevin, yeah, yeah." And I said, "Uh what
1:19:23do you want to talk to him about?"
1:19:25Right, it was at this point that I
1:19:27proved that I am completely and utterly
1:19:29gone at the game, unfortunately, because
1:19:32I delved into my rucksack. I've got
1:19:34flyers, and I'm sure you'll post links
1:19:36to the flyers on your website that never
1:19:38leave me. I've always got them. And um
1:19:41and I pulled out uh of a flyer which has
1:19:44two pictures of Kevin Parle on them.
1:19:46They've been computer enhanced by John
1:19:48Moores University in Liverpool to uh to
1:19:50to give a uh a
1:19:52a guestimate of as what he looks like in
1:19:542016. And believe you me, people that
1:19:56have seen him said they're accurate, you
1:19:58know, so he he's very similar to these.
1:20:00As I pulled the flyer out, these images
1:20:03were clearly developed from a police mug
1:20:05shot.
1:20:06So, they look essentially what they are,
1:20:08a police mug shot. And all of a sudden,
1:20:10it's gone from, "Oh, yeah, talk Kevin,
1:20:12what would you like to talk about?"
1:20:13They've suddenly changed tack, and
1:20:16they've gone, "Oh,
1:20:18uh uh
1:20:19Excuse me, let me just uh stop that.
1:20:21They've gone uh "Oh, uh no, no, no, no,
1:20:24no, no, no, no, no. No, the Kevin we're
1:20:26talking about is um 75." Mhm.
1:20:30Yeah, really. Righto. Well, you can hear
1:20:33that exchange. It's in the podcast in
1:20:35episode eight, I think. Um and draw your
1:20:38own conclusions. But I've played that
1:20:41clip to people, you know, from to to
1:20:45professors of criminology, for example.
1:20:48Um you know, esteemed clever people. And
1:20:52and and they have roundly all just gone,
1:20:54"Lying. They're lying. They were clearly
1:20:56talking about Parle." When they saw the
1:20:59photos uh obviously developed from
1:21:01police mug shots, they uh they changed
1:21:03their mind.
1:21:05Mhm. Can we just pause there, while
1:21:09Yeah, so please listen to the podcast.
1:21:12Read Read the book if you can. Um
1:21:15because this hunt for Kevin Parle is is
1:21:17not about me.
1:21:19And it's not about Kevin Parle, really.
1:21:21It's about Liam and Lucy and trying to
1:21:24secure some justice for the victims,
1:21:28because really this is about truth over
1:21:32lies. This is about right over wrong.
1:21:36And this is about justice, because as
1:21:39we've discussed, for example, with
1:21:41Hillsborough and many, many other
1:21:43situations, countless situations that
1:21:46people find themselves in. If there is
1:21:48no justice,
1:21:50there is frustration. There's a There's
1:21:53a sour taste. There's There's There's
1:21:55anger.
1:21:57We we we need to have justice. A sense
1:21:59of justice, I believe, is central to our
1:22:03very core being and well-being. And I
1:22:06think that Kevin Parle needs to stand in
1:22:08a court and answer the allegations made
1:22:11against him. It's as simple as that.
1:22:13And I think we must stress that this is
1:22:15a a job undertaken by you, you know, you
1:22:18you've you've got um a lot of expenses
1:22:20that have been uh occurring. You've
1:22:23you've You really want this man in
1:22:25connection with the two murders. And
1:22:27I'll just reiterate them. It's
1:22:2816-year-old Liam Kelly in 2004 and his
1:22:3122-year-old mom of three, Lucy
1:22:33Hargreaves, in 2005. And this man is
1:22:35wanted in connection with both of them.
1:22:37And I think that the scary thing to look
1:22:39at it is in now Liam Kelly would be in
1:22:42his 30s, and Lucy Hargreaves, again,
1:22:44also in her 30s, living their lives to
1:22:47their full. And they were taken um
1:22:50believed to be in this man who who has
1:22:53who has a connection with both murders
1:22:54and needs to appear before court. Um so,
1:22:57I think you're you're absolutely
1:22:58spot-on. And we urge everyone to click
1:23:00all the links in our description. Buy
1:23:02the book. Tell your friend about the
1:23:03podcast. To just listen to to Peter's
1:23:05story on trying to find Kevin Parle,
1:23:07because at the end of the day, it's it's
1:23:09Parle, not profit.
1:23:11Yeah, buy the book. Read it. Pass it on.
1:23:15Please. You know, I I put in the book
1:23:17how much money I had earned in inverted
1:23:20commas in connection to my hunt with
1:23:22Parle. And thus far, I have not put one
1:23:26carat
1:23:27on our dining room table. Any money I
1:23:30have earned or been paid for Parle,
1:23:33either in connection with the po-
1:23:35has all been spent on my hunt for him.
1:23:38It's an expensive business. We've been
1:23:41on planes, trains, and automobiles, and
1:23:44stayed in hotels for weeks. And when
1:23:47you're on the road, you've got to buy
1:23:49every coffee, every Coke, every
1:23:51sandwich, every meal. It's a really
1:23:53expensive business. But I'm not asking
1:23:56for sympathy here. This is not Yeah, I'm
1:23:58not playing poverty, because my wife has
1:24:00been sensible over the years with with
1:24:02whatever we've earned. Mhm. But this is
1:24:05not about profit. This is about the
1:24:07victims and finding Kevin
1:24:11Parle. So, thank you in advance,
1:24:12everybody. I really, really appreciate
1:24:14it. And even if you just have thoughts
1:24:17or theories, and you want to discuss it,
1:24:20I make a point of finding time to
1:24:22respond to anybody who reach out reaches
1:24:24out and connects with me. So, I I I will
1:24:27do that. I I assure you. And I can say
1:24:29from my own experience, you're very easy
1:24:31to contact, whether it's Twitter,
1:24:32Facebook, Instagram. There's the phone
1:24:34number, which we'll link. And if anyone
1:24:36in Ireland is calling it, don't forget
1:24:38you've to put in the the 44
1:24:40and drop the O. So, look, we we've had a
1:24:44brilliant chat, Peter. And we wish you
1:24:45all the best with with that hunt for
1:24:47Kevin Parle. And and you know, in the
1:24:49year of COVID, it makes everything that
1:24:51little bit harder. But you're still
1:24:52working as hard as possible. And you
1:24:54know, hopefully one day we might in in a
1:24:56COVID-free world, get you over here to
1:24:58Dublin or try and really push the search
1:25:00for for this guy. And and how you find
1:25:02it at the moment, just a a little brief
1:25:03thing on lockdown and you know, you're
1:25:05working from home a lot. You can't
1:25:06really do the the bulk and the heavy
1:25:08loading, if you like, of the traveling
1:25:10around the places.
1:25:11Yeah, it's the traveling that I can't
1:25:13do, and that is, of course, deeply,
1:25:14deeply frustrating and very much works
1:25:16to the advantage of Kevin Parle. Um but
1:25:19we live in the age of the digital
1:25:20detective, don't we? The desktop
1:25:22detective, whatever you want to call
1:25:23them. And there is so much that can be
1:25:25done from the confines of my office, and
1:25:27that is still happening. And that
1:25:29doesn't stop people. The fact that we're
1:25:30lockdown, you know, doesn't stop people
1:25:32coming forward and speaking to me. And
1:25:34I'm learning more and more and more
1:25:36about Kevin Parle, all of which we will
1:25:38put into the public domain when it is
1:25:40safe to do so and it is suitable uh to
1:25:43do so. So, please keep it coming. Uh
1:25:46lockdown, yeah. The first 11 weeks, I
1:25:49was writing the book. Mhm. You know, I'd
1:25:51got a bit behind with it, so I got my
1:25:52head down, wrote the book. I was very
1:25:54fortunate in that regard, as well as
1:25:56continuing my my hunt from my desktop
1:25:59for him. And then, as we kind of came
1:26:02out of that and restrictions got lifted,
1:26:04we had about half a cricket season or
1:26:06so.
1:26:07Mhm. And for for my
1:26:08Yeah, and for for my mental health, Mhm.
1:26:11sitting on the boundary with a cool box,
1:26:13with a lovely picnic, Mhm. um watching
1:26:17cricket, you know, predominantly my son
1:26:18playing cricket. He's Yeah, you know,
1:26:20he's nearly 18. Um
1:26:22was just a joyous, joyous thing. Cuz
1:26:24while you're watching cricket, apart
1:26:26from people hand sanitizing every six
1:26:28overs, you think the world is turning
1:26:30normally. Mhm. And it just transports
1:26:33you to to a beautiful place. Um so,
1:26:36yeah, how deeply indebted I am to sport,
1:26:39of course. Exactly. And it's And it's
1:26:41only now when um when you look at the
1:26:43sport, and even when we were doing our
1:26:45review show on Monday, and you know, you
1:26:47you don't put in every topic, because
1:26:48there's so much sport. And you wonder
1:26:50how we survived the original lockdown
1:26:52without live sport. You know, you've got
1:26:53the rugby, you've got horse racing,
1:26:55you've golf, you've football. In
1:26:56Ireland, we've Gaelic games, which is so
1:26:58important in the fabric of of our
1:26:59society. And and you really appreciate
1:27:01sport at this time to give people, I
1:27:03suppose, to add something to the
1:27:04national conversation.
1:27:06And the national identity. Mhm. It's so
1:27:09important for us, isn't it? You know,
1:27:11and and fair play to the broadcasters
1:27:13and the authorities that You know why
1:27:15the authorities were so desperate to get
1:27:17sport back on the TV as quickly as they
1:27:19could, cuz it keeps people indoors.
1:27:21Yeah. And I know that government
1:27:23ministers were briefing the sporting
1:27:25bodies and saying, "Get the sport on the
1:27:27telly. Whatever it takes, we will help
1:27:29you get it on the telly, cuz it keeps
1:27:31people in their homes." Mhm. Um and and
1:27:35and that's great. And I was um I was
1:27:37contacted by a a Sky Sports exec the
1:27:40other week who wanted to connect with me
1:27:41on LinkedIn. And we had a chat, you
1:27:43know. And I said, "Yeah, I know these
1:27:45are paid for subscription services, and
1:27:47I know it's a travesty that not
1:27:49everybody can afford them. And I
1:27:50understand how lucky I am to be able to
1:27:53pay that subscription and and devour
1:27:56that sport when time allows." Um but
1:27:59yeah, it's sport has been such a major,
1:28:02major part of my life, and always will
1:28:04be. And uh it's a a thing I deeply,
1:28:08deeply love. Unfortunately, my ambition
1:28:10has always outstripped my ability, no
1:28:13matter what sport I play. Um you know, I
1:28:15was a footballer, my second touch was
1:28:17always a free kick or a throw-in. Um
1:28:20yeah, you've heard about my horizontal
1:28:22nickname as a boxer.
1:28:24You know, but and uh a limited ability
1:28:27cricketer, but it didn't stop me loving
1:28:29those sports and playing the best I
1:28:31possibly could. I love that nickname.
1:28:34That's brilliant. But it also reminds me
1:28:35of me, cuz I'm not the the best at
1:28:37sport, but I love it. And and you still
1:28:39have that infectious And we spoke to an
1:28:41Irish politician, a prominent Irish
1:28:42politician, the other day, and he Eamon
1:28:44O'Cuiv from the Labour Party, and he had
1:28:46the exact same idea that necessarily he
1:28:48wasn't as good at when he was younger at
1:28:49sport, but he still had those memories.
1:28:51And we might touch on a few of those
1:28:52memories in the quick fire
1:28:54which we do. And it's, you know, as
1:28:56short as long an answer as possible. And
1:28:58if it brings back any memories, feel
1:28:59free to discuss it.
1:29:01Um and we might start with the best
1:29:03player you've ever seen play for QPR.
1:29:05Oh, I'm torn. I'm torn. I'm torn between
1:29:09two. Okay.
1:29:11Um
1:29:12Rodney Marsh, Mhm. my first blue and
1:29:15white hooped hero
1:29:17and Stan Bowles.
1:29:19Two utterly magical,
1:29:22breathtaking, astonishing footballers.
1:29:26Truly, truly brilliant. And with all due
1:29:29respect to all the other wonderful
1:29:31players that I've had the great joy of
1:29:34of of watching,
1:29:35I'm torn between Rodney and Stan. So, am
1:29:39I allowed to be torn? Can I sit on the
1:29:41fence?
1:29:42Yeah, yeah, we'll let you. You've been
1:29:43so open with your time. Uh
1:29:45a lot of people in their head will be
1:29:46going someone like Adel Taarabt who
1:29:47they've seen play in the Premier League,
1:29:49the skills he had. Uh another question
1:29:51on QPR, there's a couple of them. Um
1:29:53who's your the favorite manager or, you
1:29:55know, the best time as a QPR fan in
1:29:57terms of managerial because, you know,
1:29:59they've had a whole host of managers
1:30:01down the line. You think of the
1:30:02likes of Ian Holloway, Harry Redknapp,
1:30:04people like that. And uh who who'd be
1:30:06your favorite or your kind of favorite
1:30:07time to be a QPR fan? Well, I go back a
1:30:10long way, of course, and might mention
1:30:12some names.
1:30:14Your your listeners will have to look up
1:30:15in the history books. Um Alec Stock,
1:30:19Dave Sexton, um you know, and I'm
1:30:21missing out others. And we were great
1:30:23under Gerry Francis and all of that. But
1:30:26in recent times, in recent times,
1:30:30the standout manager, of course, was
1:30:33Neil Warnock.
1:30:35Now, let me just tell you how little I
1:30:38know about sport because on the day Neil
1:30:42Warnock was appointed our manager,
1:30:45I texted our little group of mates, you
1:30:47know, the bad boys that go to the away
1:30:49games, right? My Rangers mates. And I
1:30:51said, "Today is the darkest day
1:30:55in the history of Queens Park Rangers
1:30:58Football Club because I hated Neil
1:31:01Warnock. He was one of those managers
1:31:03that if he wasn't managing your team, he
1:31:06was such a wind-up merchant. And he was
1:31:08so irritating, you know, that I think he
1:31:11was somebody that that people
1:31:13you know, kind of loved to hate, sort of
1:31:15thing. He was he was one of those
1:31:17characters and still is. And I saw a
1:31:19wonderful interview with him on the
1:31:21telly the other week. And he was saying
1:31:23he wants the crowds to come back because
1:31:25he wants to be booed one last time,
1:31:27right?
1:31:27Well, up until he took over as our
1:31:29manager, I had booed him on numerous
1:31:32occasions. And I was I was disgusted
1:31:37when he took over.
1:31:38Well, within about 15 months,
1:31:41he took a team that just avoided
1:31:44relegation
1:31:46out of the Championship into League One,
1:31:48just avoided relegation, he turned us
1:31:51round, and the following season with the
1:31:54with season with the magical Adel
1:31:57in the side, and he was just unplayable
1:31:59that year,
1:32:00we won the Championship and got
1:32:03promoted.
1:32:04I mean,
1:32:05it was just an astonishing turnaround.
1:32:09And I now, of course, as a complete and
1:32:12utter rampant know-nothing hypocrite,
1:32:16adore Neil Warnock and always will. And
1:32:19I and I'd say when the Middlesbrough
1:32:20fans found out that he was going to be
1:32:23managing Middlesbrough at the end of
1:32:24last year, they probably had the same
1:32:26idea. He's just one of those managers
1:32:27that just you don't know how he does it,
1:32:29but he does it. His promotions in the
1:32:31Championship to the Premier League. Um
1:32:33and I suppose onto that, uh and this is
1:32:35an interesting question. What's your
1:32:36favorite away ground you've ever been
1:32:38to?
1:32:40Ooh.
1:32:43I have to say
1:32:45New Year's Day,
1:32:47I think it was 1992,
1:32:50correct me if I'm wrong, New Year's Day,
1:32:53Old Trafford.
1:32:55Mhm. We won 4-1.
1:32:59New Year's Day, right? So, I'm hungover
1:33:01as hell. I'm on the supporters' coach,
1:33:03right? You know, and you know what it
1:33:05is. I'm 6 ft and a bit, so your knees
1:33:07are around your ears for most of the
1:33:09coach journey. It's particularly
1:33:10uncomfortable for hours and hours on end
1:33:12and all of that. Go to Old Trafford.
1:33:14Nobody had given us a a chance of of
1:33:17beating them. They're battling it out at
1:33:19the top of the league between them and
1:33:21Leeds, sort of thing.
1:33:23Dennis Law is commentating. It's on ITV.
1:33:25I've cuz I've recorded it and watched it
1:33:27later.
1:33:29Um and we beat them 4-1. Dennis Bailey
1:33:32got a hat-trick. Hallelujah. Dennis
1:33:33Bailey was a man of great faith.
1:33:35Um and so we used to sing, "Dennis
1:33:37Bailey, hallelujah, hallelujah." And
1:33:39done.
1:33:40And there we were at Old Trafford
1:33:43stuffing them 4-1. Dennis Law um
1:33:47claimed at half-time, when we were three
1:33:50up, I think, that it was due to the
1:33:51swirling wind.
1:33:53Because, of course, the swirling wind
1:33:54only adversely affected Manchester
1:33:56United and not Queens Park Rangers. Um
1:33:59yeah, it was great. And after the game,
1:34:02we've all poured back onto the bus.
1:34:06I am standing there
1:34:07arms aloft, right? In the at the door of
1:34:11the bus
1:34:12giving it to all the Man United fans.
1:34:14And um a police officer comes up to me
1:34:16and he says, "Um do you like it here?"
1:34:18I said, "Yeah, I like it."
1:34:19He said, "Um he said, "Would you like to
1:34:21stay here a lot longer than you
1:34:22originally thought?"
1:34:23I said, "Nah, probably not." He said,
1:34:25"Well, eff off and get on that bastard
1:34:27and I'll nick you."
1:34:29And I went, "Oh, United fan, are you?"
1:34:30And I got on the bus.
1:34:32And it was just a truly magical,
1:34:34wonderful, unexpected day. So, probably
1:34:36for that memory alone, quite possibly um
1:34:39Old Trafford. But I've done about 78 of
1:34:42the 96 league grounds over the years. Um
1:34:45and so I've got fond memories and
1:34:48heartbreaking memories from so many of
1:34:49them.
1:34:51I'd imagine. Um I'm going to move on
1:34:52away from QPR. Your favorite
1:34:53sportsperson of all time, and
1:34:55necessarily someone that you didn't have
1:34:57a connection with, but you admire
1:34:58greatly and you even to this day when
1:35:00you you kind of see them on the TV,
1:35:02you're you're kind of linked to them and
1:35:03you you immediately think of, you know,
1:35:05their past glories, maybe.
1:35:07No doubt.
1:35:09No no one comes close. And I'm sorry
1:35:11because
1:35:12you will have heard it before said by
1:35:14many many other people, I'm sure.
1:35:16Muhammad Ali. A giant, an absolute giant
1:35:20of a man, the most beautiful, wonderful
1:35:22boxer. And in fact,
1:35:25um
1:35:26I treated myself to an hour on the sofa
1:35:28the other afternoon. And there was a
1:35:30program about Ali, and it featured at
1:35:33the end of the program the first Joe
1:35:34Frazier fight.
1:35:36You know, 15 rounds. They used to do 15
1:35:38rounds in those days. Of course, common
1:35:40sense has prevailed and it's been
1:35:41reduced to 12.
1:35:43Um and there were many many other clips
1:35:45of other fights there. And what he did,
1:35:48what he represented,
1:35:49is
1:35:51his steadfastness in what he believed
1:35:53was right and what was wrong,
1:35:55and the fact that he was willing to make
1:35:57so many sacrifices rather than
1:35:59compromise means that he stands as a
1:36:02sporting icon in my view, head and
1:36:04shoulders above any other. Mhm. Yeah,
1:36:06and I think so many people will agree. I
1:36:08mean, you only hear of uh people my age
1:36:10only hear about Muhammad Ali and, you
1:36:12know, you see clips and, you know, you
1:36:13hear stories from your dad, your uncles
1:36:15about it and
1:36:16maybe move on to the Olympics. Your
1:36:17favorite Olympic moment, is that the the
1:36:19Paralympics?
1:36:22Yes, being actually being there in the
1:36:24day at the stadium, London 2012, the
1:36:27Paralympics was
1:36:29just the most moving
1:36:31experience ever to watch these
1:36:34astonishing
1:36:36athletes um performing at the very top
1:36:39of their game was really, really
1:36:43quite something. Um I can't go without
1:36:46mentioning Mo Farah, of course, and
1:36:47double double and all that kind of
1:36:50stuff. Um and so many other astonishing
1:36:53people. And I and I know um she came
1:36:55from north of the border, but I I saw
1:36:58Dame Mary Peters on the telly the other
1:37:00day. And I'm that old that I remember
1:37:03her winning gold in '72
1:37:06um in the pentathlon.
1:37:08It It was It was my awakening moment
1:37:11into the fact that women do sport.
1:37:14And it's and it's lived with me and it's
1:37:16been wonderful. And uh I'm not averse to
1:37:19watching a bit of um
1:37:22you know, the the the top-level ladies'
1:37:23sport. I thought the England ladies'
1:37:26football team at their recent World Cup
1:37:28were quite brilliant in terms of their
1:37:30fitness, their intensity, their work
1:37:32rate, and of course, their ability. So,
1:37:36um
1:37:36yeah, whenever I get a chance, I'm not
1:37:38averse to watching some of that.
1:37:40And maybe finally, and I suppose it is a
1:37:43question I thought of asking is
1:37:45one sentence um
1:37:47and if say, for example, Kevin Parle was
1:37:49in listening or someone that knows him
1:37:52or knows his whereabouts um is
1:37:54listening, what's your one sentence to
1:37:56him and and sort of your quest to to
1:37:58find him?
1:38:01Please forgive me if I stretch it to
1:38:03maybe a couple of sentences. The floor
1:38:05is yours. Go ahead. And and they might
1:38:07be long ones. Um
1:38:09organized crime is harboring and funding
1:38:12Kevin Parle, and I understand that
1:38:14because he has been an asset to them.
1:38:18Not a day goes by without me either
1:38:20discovering something or being told
1:38:22something about Parle, his network, and
1:38:24all of that.
1:38:25Now, I'm not in a position to threaten
1:38:27people because I don't have any guns, I
1:38:29don't have a gang. It's me
1:38:31trying to find him, and I will find him.
1:38:34Believe you me, he will be found.
1:38:36Um
1:38:38imagine if I had a dossier
1:38:41inches thick, you know, old-school
1:38:43money, kind of like. Imagine a paper
1:38:44dossier as opposed to digital and stuff.
1:38:47A dossier that gave a thorough breakdown
1:38:50about the criminality that those around
1:38:52Kevin Parle are involved in. The who
1:38:54does what, the what goes where, the what
1:38:57goes in the other direction, and all
1:38:58that kind of stuff.
1:39:02It is quite possible that I could take
1:39:04all of that to the authority to the
1:39:05authorities, exhaustive as it is,
1:39:09and as a result, their potentially
1:39:11lucrative criminality could all come to
1:39:13a shuddering halt.
1:39:17Well, it doesn't have to be that way cuz
1:39:19I didn't set out to discover about
1:39:21criminality, about who shot who or you
1:39:23know, other murders and who serves up
1:39:26this and who transports this and who
1:39:28deals that. Although, I've discovered a
1:39:31lot of that along the way. I am willing
1:39:32to keep all of that secrets
1:39:35forever. I won't tell law enforcement
1:39:37about it. That's not what I'm doing.
1:39:39I've got very very narrow parameters. I
1:39:41just want to find Kevin Parle.
1:39:44I'll keep all those secrets secret
1:39:47if they
1:39:49surrender Kevin Parle.
1:39:52Then we can have a deal. If not, I can't
1:39:54make any guarantees that I will not go
1:39:56to law enforcement and tell them
1:39:59everything I know and that might cause
1:40:01very very serious, costly, huge
1:40:04disruption to a number of people. Come
1:40:06on.
1:40:08Surrender him. He's no longer an an
1:40:10asset. He's turning into a liability.
1:40:12Every person that listens to the
1:40:14podcast, reads the book, becomes aware
1:40:16of him, spreads the word, turns him
1:40:18daily more from an asset into a
1:40:20liability.
1:40:22And he will be found. He will be found.
1:40:24He will be found.
1:40:26And and thank you everybody for
1:40:27listening and and thank you so much for
1:40:29giving me this platform to speak today.
1:40:31Well, listen Peter, like I said, you've
1:40:33been unbelievable with your time
1:40:35and and for coming on, you know,
1:40:37volunteering yourself to come on and
1:40:39discuss this. Just for people listening,
1:40:41he is the man hunting Kevin Parle. Check
1:40:43out the BBC podcast series which we'll
1:40:45link, Manhunt. It's brilliant. I've
1:40:47listened to a good few episodes. I still
1:40:49have a few episodes to to listen up on
1:40:51and everything that's around it. His
1:40:53book is in, you know, bookstores. We'll
1:40:56link the one that that that Peter said
1:40:58at his cheapest. He's got his
1:41:00his phone number which we'll again link,
1:41:02his social media and everything. And
1:41:03just
1:41:04Peter, lastly, the floor is yours but
1:41:06before we go, thanks a million for your
1:41:08time and thanks for thanks for coming
1:41:10on.
1:41:11Well, we all hope that the world starts
1:41:13turning properly again, don't we? Of
1:41:15course we do. And your invitation
1:41:18to come over to Ireland again is putting
1:41:21a smile on my face cuz I've been to
1:41:22Dublin for for many years. I came out
1:41:25there working on a a few occasions when
1:41:27I was part of a TV show called Murphy's
1:41:30Law many years ago with
1:41:32Jimmy Nesbitt in it. And
1:41:34and I can't wait
1:41:36to go down Temple Bar or wherever you
1:41:39are kind enough to take me. Um,
1:41:41so I'm going to have a proper pint of
1:41:43the black stuff in the country of its
1:41:44origin. I can't wait. I'm a bit partial
1:41:47to a pint or two
1:41:49Well, it'll be one of of Guinness. If
1:41:51you want a nice pint, you might you
1:41:52might stay away from Temple Bar.
1:41:54But listen,
1:41:56that invitation is there and we hope
1:41:58that we're inviting you over successful
1:42:01finding in Kevin Parle. Thanks a
1:42:03million, Peter. You've been
1:42:04unbelievable. My pleasure. Thank you.

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of Ep 46: Peter Bleksley Interview - Undercover, Hillsborough, QPR, Manhunt: Finding Kevin Parle by Tackling Sport, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 18,009 words across 2,728 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.