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Engineering Designs CAN'T FIX Black Countries — Transcript

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0:00The only reason the black race is still
0:02standing and moving and growing is the
0:05level of ignorance.
0:06>> The issue with Nigeria's political
0:08system, social climate [music] is far
0:11deeper than that. It's mixed in with
0:13religion, ethnic [music] background,
0:16different dialects. I mean, about 200
0:18plus different dialects. [music]
0:19>> What can change what you have just
0:22described, which is which is everywhere
0:24on the continent?
0:39Hello, and welcome to ZIPYAR, Zano
0:42Project Rethink. I'm Frank Zano, and
0:45today is another day with another guest.
0:47Always exciting people, people with very
0:50interesting backgrounds. I'm in the
0:52studio with Emmanuel Oni, uh who flew in
0:56all the way from Texas
0:58uh to Connecticut. And so, that says a
1:01lot about why he wanted to come to the
1:03studio, which means whatever he has and
1:06he wants to share it with the world
1:08means a lot to Emmanuel. And I want to
1:10treat him that way. We're going to go
1:12into some very interesting conversation.
1:15Emmanuel sent me an email, and he said
1:18he has been following some of my
1:20arguments and discussions, but he has
1:23been working on what I call a
1:24dissertation or a thesis, uh which
1:28almost designed to help. He said, "I'm
1:33preparing for Frank. I am analyzing
1:35Nigerian's development through the
1:38engineering design process.
1:42Defining the country's current standing,
1:45diagnosing failure mechanisms, reviewing
1:48comparative models, and identifying
1:51transferable solutions.
1:53The primary focus is assessing
1:56whether Nigerian's
1:58current political structure hindered its
2:01ability to convert resources and ideas
2:04into accountable governance and a
2:06productive economy. Who wouldn't want
2:08that? Of course, that's everybody's
2:10dream. Emmanuel, welcome to the studio.
2:13>> Thank you very much for having me and
2:14thank you to the team. Uh yes, so I am a
2:18by profession a structural engineer, so
2:20I approach concern {slash} problems that
2:23I have from a engineering standpoint.
2:25So, first we have to establish what
2:27exactly the question is,
2:30what
2:30what we have in terms of resources to
2:33address the problem before we address
2:36the solution. And being a Nigerian born
2:39um
2:41American naturalized citizen, I think I
2:44have a unique perspective in terms of uh
2:47my early childhood being in Nigeria and
2:50then of course since then being in the
2:51United States. I have had the exposure
2:55into the culture from Nigeria, at least
2:57from a Yoruba standpoint, and
3:00the culture from the US. So, comparing
3:02those two and along with my recent
3:05travel to Nigeria itself,
3:08that's gotten me deeper into the
3:09analysis of
3:12how to bring Nigeria's current standing
3:14into the modern world.
3:17>> So, that is the central base of uh
3:21what you have been thinking about to
3:23bring Nigerians current standing
3:26to the modern world.
3:29>> Yes, sir.
3:29>> Okay.
3:33Why did you become Well, of course, you
3:35said you came here when you were 10 and
3:36that's all
3:37larger part of your life up until now.
3:40>> Yes.
3:41>> Why did you become
3:43when did you become concerned with the
3:45standing of Nigeria?
3:47>> Mhm. That's a great question. Um
3:50really initially it began with culture
3:53culture shock when we first arrived with
3:56my family at least. So just going to
3:59school, getting used to the
4:02to the schooling system here as far as
4:05how they facilitate growth with their
4:07youths,
4:08how much resources is being poured into
4:11into the children into the next
4:12generation. It was starkly different
4:15from what I had experienced in Nigeria.
4:17And even in Nigeria when I was you know
4:20schooling there, I my parent you know
4:23they sent us to public school rather I
4:25mean excuse me private school. Rather
4:27and even that was significantly
4:29different from the public schooling
4:31system here. It felt almost a step
4:33behind even still while going to private
4:35school.
4:36However, I am grateful for that since I
4:38learned a lot and it did allow the
4:40transition a bit easier here.
4:42So just looking at those the culture
4:45the culture shock and growing up in the
4:47system here just I I'd always find it
4:50hard not to compare to what I could
4:53recall from
4:54>> I see. At least so you have something to
4:57compare to to say
4:58>> Yes yes.
4:58>> one is lacking in some ways and the
5:01other if we can do this to give if
5:05nothing the basic needs in life to our
5:08children so they can grow up and and do
5:10better in life. Now so the first 10
5:13years of course you spent in Nigeria I
5:15mean you went to primary school private
5:17primary school.
5:18>> Yes yes I forgot the the SS
5:21>> years would give you the first four
5:22years of uh
5:24primary school that's correct.
5:25>> Yes so the grading system is a bit
5:27different I'm forgetting now but
5:29essentially I came here into the later
5:31parts of the seventh grade elementary.
5:33>> Okay.
5:34Before you left Nigeria at that age did
5:37you ever think as a child 10 years old
5:39that there was something wrong with your
5:40people or the place?
5:45>> No not at the time no.
5:47>> Okay.
5:47>> I guess my priorities was a bit
5:49different maybe. I was more concerned
5:51with probably just playing and hanging
5:53out more rather than I ever uh yeah, I
5:56mean, maybe a few months into realizing
5:59things were going to change for my
6:01family and I.
6:02You know, um began
6:05looking into what exactly this place is
6:07that we're coming into
6:09and hey, it's the land of honey, you
6:11know, so from that description itself um
6:14I figured it would it it's something
6:16better.
6:17>> I was having a conversation recently
6:19with a gentleman about Tinubu, the
6:22current president. And he was very
6:26acidic and vitriol about the president.
6:29>> Mhm.
6:30>> And this man is a very well-learned man,
6:32the the one I was talking to.
6:33>> Mhm.
6:34>> And it bothered me why he would have
6:37problem with the current president.
6:40How long has Tinubu been in the office?
6:42>> I think it's 10 years, 4 years and we're
6:446.
6:45>> So, maybe 20.
6:46>> He's in his second term?
6:47>> No, this he's ending his first term this
6:50year, so the election is coming up
6:51beginning next year, I believe.
6:53>> So, he's been in the office 3 years.
6:55>> Yes.
6:55>> 36 months.
6:56>> Yes.
6:57>> Of a country that is almost about 70
6:59years old.
7:00>> Mhm.
7:00>> And nothing has been different from the
7:02day Nigeria got independence.
7:04>> Mhm.
7:06>> Many military leaders were kicked out.
7:08>> Mhm.
7:08>> Civilian government were kicked out by
7:10military at gunpoint. Military
7:12government overthrew military
7:13government. Meaning every four, five
7:16years
7:16>> A reset.
7:17>> People have never been satisfied with
7:19the condition of Nigeria.
7:20>> Mhm.
7:21>> Okay. Why suddenly
7:23would anyone at all expect that in 36
7:26months
7:27a country with about 200 million people
7:30that is about 70 years old that Tinubu
7:33should have done or could have done
7:34anything so significantly different in 3
7:38years?
7:40>> Yes, uh we tend to um
7:42and there are many people like the
7:44individual you spoke to who have the
7:46same
7:47conclusion about the current president.
7:50Um
7:52I think we ask a lot from our
7:53politicians or so-called politicians. We
7:56have We tend to ask them to fly
7:58before asking for their capability to do
8:01so.
8:02So, Tinubu
8:03like most presidents most likely came in
8:06under the same moniker of okay,
8:08something has to change and
8:10>> [clears throat and snorts]
8:10>> I'm the guy to do it. But we we must go
8:14deeper. The
8:16the issue with Nigeria's political
8:18system
8:19it the issue with the Nigeria's um
8:22social climate is far deeper than that.
8:26It's mixed in with religion
8:29ethnic backgrounds, different dialects.
8:31I mean, about 200 plus different
8:34dialects that the one president has to
8:36manage. And current president easily
8:40Yoruba man, middle name of Muslim
8:42origin. But he
8:44most likely he grew up in the western
8:47region and it would be hard for him to
8:50to please everybody cuz the north is
8:52vastly different and the east is vastly
8:54different. So, there's always going to
8:56be an issue with the president or the
8:58people will always have an issue with
8:59the president because it would it would
9:01be hard for one person to please
9:04so many different
9:06>> tribes. Yeah, and colleges. Okay, so now
9:09you and I have agreed that
9:12you can't just pick a president and then
9:13expect that in 4 years, even in 10
9:15years, that that president and according
9:17to you, the reading I went through
9:21um
9:22if we keep doing so, then nothing will
9:24change. So, if you should become
9:27if you survived
9:29let's say Tinubu,
9:31you suddenly became the president of
9:33Nigeria
9:34and you have that
9:38uh
9:39design that you sent me.
9:41>> Mhm.
9:42>> What would make your presidency
9:44different if you implement the very
9:46things you have written that you sent to
9:48me? What would make your presidency
9:50different to change Nigeria, quote, for
9:52Nigeria to be integrated into the modern
9:55world?
9:55>> Sure.
9:56Uh first, we have to establish if
9:58there's a will of the people to do so.
10:01Um
10:02it prior to and not to blame colonialism
10:06or nothing like that, but prior to the
10:08British arrival, there was a reason we
10:11weren't
10:12one country or we weren't
10:15interacting with each other as we are
10:16now.
10:17>> Mhm.
10:17>> That reason needs to be re-explored and
10:20rediscovered. Uh I think we've came to a
10:25we've forced something together such as
10:27the British had
10:28that naturally isn't together.
10:31Not to say we cannot be cordially or
10:34friendly with each other, but at the end
10:36of the day, we are different people. So,
10:39to the question, if I were to become the
10:41president, first we need to re-explore
10:43that and find the will within the people
10:46if they are willing to stay as they are.
10:48>> So, what would you propose to the
10:50people?
10:51Now,
10:52when you chose Nigeria, I was happy you
10:54chose Nigeria, not necessarily because
10:55you come from there, but you chose a
10:57country that is very popular in the
10:58continent.
10:59>> Popular.
10:59>> By its sheer size and the population.
11:02The largest, right? By population in the
11:04continent. But, when you take a look at
11:06Nigeria, you've seen the whole of
11:07Africa. If you take a look at Ghana,
11:08you've seen the whole of Africa or
11:10you've seen the whole of the black race.
11:11>> Mhm.
11:12>> Right? All right.
11:14So, now let's come to you.
11:16Now you've become the president. What is
11:18it you're going to propose to the
11:19people, your first item on the agenda to
11:22test the will of the people? What would
11:24it be?
11:25>> Sure.
11:26Uh first, we have to find a national
11:28identity if we are to stay together, and
11:31that would have to come from a national
11:32message. Uh
11:34without a doubt,
11:36people the
11:38current citizens of Nigerians are
11:39different. I ever I believe we can all
11:41agree that we do need education, and we
11:44do need institutions. And with that, we
11:46can find a common ground at least for
11:49the up-and-coming generation into the
11:50future,
11:52and leave them with something
11:53substantial to continue to maintain or
11:55build off of.
11:57>> You see, this
11:58your
12:00your way of talking about I hope I
12:03really hope that is what is happening on
12:05the continent. We would find a solution
12:09if there is a problem. That is if there
12:11is a problem. Not every discussion
12:13yields solutions. Sometimes through the
12:15discussion, you come to discover that,
12:17"Oh lord,
12:18there is nothing wrong with the people."
12:22But it is hard to find even a podcast in
12:24Nigeria, Ghana, Sierra Leone where these
12:26sensible
12:28a person so concerned about the country
12:30you were removed since you were 10,
12:32but you're still concerned to the point
12:34you spend your time and sent me that
12:37very well-thought-out writing. I've read
12:39it twice because I myself I was looking
12:42to see, and people are rushing to say I
12:44should start writing on what I meant by
12:46tribal nation, the only solution to the
12:48African problem. So, I am again going to
12:51go back to you and say you have studied
12:53the country. You've been there back and
12:54forth.
12:56What would you say out loud to
12:57Nigerians? Which is You're speaking to
12:59the entire race from all the 54
13:02countries in the continent. Because you
13:03see what you see the world, the same
13:05problems you are describing is what is
13:07going on everywhere.
13:09Okay. So, what would be the first thing
13:11out loud, clear, that every layman would
13:14understand that you, President Emmanuel
13:16Oney, you are saying, "This is my
13:18model."
13:20>> Sure.
13:22I believe we'd have to
13:23draw from
13:25countries of similar, I guess, age to us
13:29as far as independence. That's something
13:30we can compare to. Um I took some time
13:34to look into Singapore
13:36for a while. They um accomplished their
13:38independence or were granted their
13:40independence around the same time as
13:41Nigeria.
13:43And about
13:4530 years, at least early '90s into it,
13:47their GDP per person was about 14 times
13:51as high as us. And
13:53as no disrespect or no no
13:56no caveat to um the Singaporean people,
13:59I believe the Nigerian's natural
14:02resources is far greater.
14:05So, that that means the possibility
14:08for the GDP and
14:10production to be in Nigeria is far more
14:13is far more capable. However,
14:16the
14:18I guess we would do have to establish if
14:20there is a problem cuz it seems to
14:22>> [laughter]
14:23>> it seems to be everywhere, yeah.
14:25>> Do you think there is a problem or have
14:27you seen? Do you What is the problem if
14:29somebody should ask you before they vote
14:31for you? Convince me there is a problem.
14:33What is the problem? And how is that
14:35problem different from Ghana, Togo,
14:37Benin, ECOWAS?
14:3950 years, 14 countries, each one has
14:43more than 50 tribes, 15 different
14:45abilities and skills, were formed 50
14:49years ago.
14:50They could not complete one
14:52international highway that you would
14:55like to put your car.
14:58So, then what is the problem of Nigeria
15:00then?
15:01>> Sure. The the the the people or the
15:03citizens of Nigeria, of course, they're
15:05not happy with the way things are.
15:07Uh mainly because they're now with the
15:10age of the internet, I would say, or the
15:12exposure to telephones and a few other
15:14things, they're able to look outside
15:15themselves and see what is capable of
15:18the human race,
15:20but maybe just not capable of us. And
15:23that might be the case, and that's fine.
15:24However,
15:26there should be a solution, and the
15:27solution could be an invitation
15:30invitation of the people who are
15:33capable.
15:34I believe we can use that to build our
15:36nation while simultaneously training
15:39the people.
15:40>> Expand on that.
15:41>> Sure.
15:41>> The invitation of those who are capable,
15:43expand on it.
15:43>> Sure. Uh for example, the highway
15:46example, um
15:47during my recent visit to Nigeria, I
15:49experienced something similar as well.
15:51Uh the underpass was all broken up.
15:54>> Okay.
15:55>> However, there was a new bridge running
15:57across the broken road as a new
15:59construction. Whenever that's going to
16:01be finished, who knows.
16:03Um so, we do need to bring in people who
16:06are capable. If it's the Germans that
16:08are capable of building rail stations,
16:09then we need to invite them to do so.
16:12And let them manage it, and eventually
16:15with an understanding that they will
16:16have to turn this over to us.
16:19>> Whether
16:20>> Hit that before.
16:21>> Sure. Sure.
16:21>> Colonization was one of the things that
16:24Hoover Institution asked countries that
16:27were colonized to think about is
16:30um they they left a lot of things
16:31behind. Infrastructure for the first
16:33time that we would know more than
16:35infrastructure is what I mean. Post
16:37office, fire stations, schools, police
16:38stations, army, prisons, roads,
16:42street lights, bus. They left all those
16:44things behind. So, eventually, if the
16:47Germans or whoever
16:49can take over, let's say highway, and
16:51build it, and you and you leave it
16:53behind, the same thing would happen to
16:54the road in 25 years, in 30 years. I was
16:57in Nigeria back in the '70s and '80s.
16:59All the bridges you're talking about
17:01today, I saw them when they were built.
17:03Today, they are all gone, and then you
17:05build a new one over it. Koreans and
17:07Chinese. And then you tell them, "I'll
17:09pay you." And then you you fall into
17:10debt. So, we've seen it happen already
17:12that doing so, meaning inviting those
17:15who know how to build to build and hand
17:17over to you is just a repetition of what
17:19happened before.
17:20>> I think I'll go back a bit. The hand
17:22over over might be an over
17:23simplification.
17:25>> Okay.
17:25>> However,
17:26they could be a third-party oversight to
17:29the infrastructure.
17:30>> Okay.
17:31>> As a
17:31>> Could that be a Nigerian?
17:32>> Uh no, the third party would be the
17:35people capable. If we're using railway
17:36systems right now, if the Germans were
17:38to facilitate the building of it, they
17:41could remain as overseers of it in terms
17:44of advice
17:45>> Okay.
17:45>> for the maintenance of the
17:46infrastructure.
17:47>> Yeah, you are just a little short from
17:48saying they should own it and become
17:50like part of the country. Look at South
17:52Africa, for example. They were not The
17:54difference of South Africa is the white
17:56were not invited as contractor
17:58>> Mhm.
17:59>> uh colonizers.
18:01They settled.
18:01>> Mhm.
18:03>> Now, imagine if an African country had
18:05taken a look at the South African model.
18:08Well, it wasn't a model because the
18:09white came and they settled there,
18:11right? And then their output of what
18:13they can do
18:14>> Mhm.
18:14>> changed that country.
18:17If somebody has taken a look at that and
18:19say, "Well, why don't you create a
18:21community for others, like you said,
18:23Germans to come into Nigeria not as
18:25contractors,
18:27but you give them
18:29You stay and be here. You own it You own
18:32it." Like the United States of America,
18:33many things here are owned by foreigners
18:36who have come to settle here.
18:38>> Mhm.
18:39>> And they own it and they run it and they
18:40run it well.
18:43>> That is a valid proposal. At the same
18:46time, I don't
18:47knowing the people, they wouldn't
18:49support that. And I believe that would
18:51lead to
18:53to conflicts similar to what South
18:55Africans had against the settlers that
18:58they had.
18:59But rather what we could
19:02invite and implement and would be the
19:04ideas
19:04>> Well, if you invite, then the conflict
19:06won't be there. In South Africa, they
19:07didn't invite, that's why the conflict.
19:09But if you invite the person, then the
19:11deal
19:13would have in it guarantees for both
19:15sides.
19:17Okay. But South Africa, the conflict was
19:19there because we didn't invite you. But
19:21after you build it, we think if you give
19:23it to us, we can run it. And so they
19:26they ask for it. Finally, they gave it
19:29to them. And we all know what the result
19:31is today, right? Okay.
19:34But when you invite someone, it becomes
19:36a deal making.
19:38Like Dubai for example, Malaysia for
19:40example, and many other places,
19:41including the United States of America.
19:43Trump just offered this 5 million for
19:46you if you have an investment of 5
19:47million, you can then get a gold green
19:49card. What he meant by 5 million is not
19:52you putting liquid cash in the bank. It
19:54meant if you can move a business here.
19:57But when you move it here, he's not
19:59asking you to just give it to anybody in
20:01the state and walk away. He's asking you
20:03to own it, stay here, and it will
20:06generate one taxes,
20:09generate employment opportunities.
20:12>> That is something worth exploring, for
20:14sure.
20:15Uh that was not initially what I had in
20:17mind, but I do see your point.
20:18>> Yes. I I would love I read your thing. I
20:21said, "How many years did you take your
20:22time?" You really did it very detailed.
20:24I I If you don't mind, when I'm done
20:26when I do my life, I'll create a link
20:28and share it.
20:30>> Yeah, sure. Okay.
20:31>> So I want you to tell
20:33the audience what you had in mind.
20:35Somebody will learn from it. But first,
20:37before you start, let me ask you.
20:40When you were doing this research and
20:42you were putting together this process,
20:43what what did you notice that
20:48is wrong with Nigerians as the people?
20:51Is something wrong with the people
20:53called Nigerians?
20:57>> I don't have a firm answer on that yet.
20:58I
20:59However, I believe the political system
21:02and structures that the people are
21:03attempting to implement is not
21:06is not from us and wasn't created for
21:09us. For example, I believe Nigeria's
21:11modeled after the US Constitution as a
21:13whole. I believe early or at the turn of
21:16the century, however it was. Uh but uh
21:19the US itself is a is a I trust society.
21:22So, they're able to separate the power
21:25of the central power from the state
21:27power in uh with an understanding that
21:30okay, well, the state is going to want
21:31what's good for its state citizens in a
21:34way. So, things will be fine. Uh
21:37Singapore modeled a different approach
21:39to it in terms of uh keeping the keeping
21:42centralized power, rather. Which either
21:45one could work. The issue is not
21:46necessarily the political system being
21:48implemented. So,
21:51maybe I'm being very thoughtful and
21:52careful.
21:55It is important to have a discussion
21:57about the people. Mhm. We have to first
22:00know
22:01if something wrong with the people. Now,
22:03when I say something wrong, I don't mean
22:06uh mental health or anything like that.
22:07I'm just simply saying wrong as as
22:10whichever way you can see it. Is
22:11something wrong with the people? Or you
22:14think the people are fine?
22:18I believe the environment cannot
22:21facilitate what the people want in terms
22:24of
22:26the culture. In a way, um my recent
22:28visit um I believe we were at a some
22:32consulate office anyway. I needed to
22:34renew a document. And it took almost an
22:36entire day for me to do that.
22:38Uh and I was getting frustrated cuz
22:40mainly what was the hold up was just
22:43about 10 employees walking by, but
22:46taking immense amount of time to greet
22:48each other while there's about 30 people
22:51in line waiting with no care in the
22:52world. So, that's frustrating, but in a
22:55way, that's how the people are. That's
22:57how they do things. However, if we're
22:59looking to
23:01change that and come
23:03to be on par with the modern countries,
23:07which it could be in Europe or Asia or
23:09wherever that example would be, we need
23:12to take ideas that they've implemented,
23:15and not make it a copy and paste as we
23:17did the constitution, since that's
23:19coming from a different society. We need
23:23to develop a system that works for us.
23:26Right.
23:26>> I like the story you just told. You said
23:28you went to a consulate office in Lagos
23:30or wherever you were in Nigeria, and a
23:32document which here could have been done
23:34online, or if you had to go to the
23:36office, somebody would attend to you,
23:38stamp it, get it renewed, and you're
23:40gone, right?
23:41>> Right.
23:41>> But here you say you spent a whole day
23:43to renew a form. And during the time
23:46people were in line, long line,
23:4810 or 12 of the staff members were just
23:51taking their sweet time to greet and
23:53exchange what they ate last night, the
23:55movie they saw on television.
23:56>> lunch.
23:56>> They ordered lunch.
23:58>> It was crazy, yeah.
23:59>> Please tell me by your process, how do
24:01you change that?
24:05Because even if you write a new Nigerian
24:06constitution, constitutions don't change
24:08character or behavior. Constitutions
24:11don't change culture, either.
24:13Constitutions don't create
24:15personalities. So,
24:17that what you have described, against
24:20this brilliant idea you have, how do you
24:23change that?
24:25>> Frank, at this point I would
24:28I don't think I have an direct answer
24:29for you.
24:30>> You are the most thoughtful guest I've
24:31ever had.
24:33Those who came from my background, like
24:35African, yes. I don't even have
24:38But I think that is the conversation we
24:40should be talking about. You see the
24:42problem?
24:43We are too
24:45quick to say we are looking for
24:46solution. That is what got Tinubu in
24:48trouble.
24:49He thought he had a solution. He thought
24:51because Tinubu, of course, the family
24:53name is powerful in Lagos, he has run
24:55very successful businesses. Otherwise,
24:57how did he become a multi-millionaire?
24:59Tinubu is not a thief, neither is he
25:01looking to steal money from Nigeria to
25:02be anybody. He was rich, famous,
25:05powerful, of course, and the next thing
25:07you want is presidency. It happens
25:09everywhere. After fame and money, of
25:11course, you need power. So, he came on,
25:13he thought he could do it. He had every
25:16good intention in his heart.
25:19But, he didn't ask questions like you.
25:21He didn't examine these things.
25:23I have said, and I repeat, and please
25:24correct me.
25:26I have gone to many African countries,
25:28especially my last one was East Africa,
25:30and I traveled many countries in East
25:32Africa. And every day when I'm in a
25:34country, I'm watching the people.
25:38I'm a people watcher.
25:40And I have said,
25:42Emmanuel, there is no miracle on Earth.
25:45Central America,
25:47South America, Latin America, Africa,
25:49the Caribbean. When you watch the
25:50people, India,
25:52the way they interact in public, on the
25:54streets,
25:56until you can organize that,
25:59there is no process, economic,
26:01political, that can ever fix a country
26:06that has 70 plus percent of the people
26:10unregulated.
26:12>> Yeah.
26:13Um
26:15>> So, that little thing you described
26:17there, your encounter, your experience
26:19at that place,
26:20was normal to the Nigerians.
26:23Only when you start to complain,
26:25everybody come out of the line and say,
26:26"Who is he?"
26:29>> Yeah, no, uh
26:30>> Long time ago in the '70s, I'm sorry,
26:31Zaire. I was in Zaire.
26:34At that time, Mobutu was still in power,
26:36and I took a taxi to go to a friend's
26:38house.
26:40And the taxi man would So, you know,
26:42back in the '80s, it's not like now,
26:44Uber takes only one person. No, back
26:46then, a taxi driver would pick you, and
26:49as he's going to drop you, those on the
26:51road, if they flag him down, he will
26:53pick them, too. So, by the time the seat
26:56is filled, he has like five different
26:57addresses.
27:00And then he waits. He gets to your
27:01address. I'm late. I wanted to get where
27:04I am. He collects the money. There's no
27:06change.
27:07Then he runs out of the taxi and start
27:09going from door to door or from store to
27:11store asking for change to give you your
27:13change. And everybody in the taxi, it's
27:16okay.
27:18The Congolese, nobody's complaining. And
27:20I started complaining.
27:22And then they were all looking at me.
27:26You see? Now,
27:28I am saying, what can change that what
27:31you have just described, which is which
27:33is everywhere
27:34on the continent?
27:36>> Well, I would have to concede that it's
27:39not going to be political. It has to
27:40come from the people.
27:42First, they would have to see it.
27:44>> They can't see it. You saw it because,
27:46you know what? You have something to
27:47compare. If you hadn't come here and you
27:51are remaining in your private schools,
27:52went to university, and then got and I
27:55know
27:56by your name, oh, definitely, you may be
27:59a chief of staff to your governor or get
28:00some big
28:02position. In Nigeria, the only way you
28:04can succeed is either behave like them
28:10or you fail.
28:13Do you know how and why great men fall?
28:16They break the laws made by fools.
28:19So, if you go back right now to any
28:21country in West Africa or all the
28:23brilliance you have right now, you
28:25either
28:26join them or you would fail. You saw
28:28that the Indian guy who returned from
28:30Nigeria and then the one who was trying
28:32to establish, was it Walmart or
28:34something or
28:35>> Yeah, I forgot what it's called.
28:36>> Yeah, the Indian guy who was trying to
28:38do the digital Okada. He came back in
28:40New York, jumped from a 12-story
28:41building, and died.
28:47Yeah. So, it is important. We have to
28:49start saying it and I am I have chosen
28:52to be if they want to call it
28:53politically incorrect, I don't have to
28:54baby sit my people because
28:57it's at my heart. Not because I'm
28:58looking for a solution, it's because I'm
29:00looking to see if that is what we are,
29:03then we know how to live with it. And my
29:05conclusion, my conclusion I've made from
29:07all that I have seen, there is nothing
29:10wrong with Nigeria.
29:14If
29:16If there's something wrong with Nigeria,
29:17then we have to say something is wrong
29:18with Nigerians because
29:21without Nigerians, without Ghanaians,
29:22without Beninois, you can't have Benin
29:24or Togo or Ghana, right? People come
29:27first before the country. Is that not
29:28correct? So, what you are saying
29:31is just the physical collection of what
29:33the individual people are.
29:35>> So, if that's what the people are,
29:39as a to carry the conversation in a way,
29:42what the people are
29:45is seemingly becoming evident that it's
29:49incapable of building what the people
29:51want.
29:52>> What
29:53Which people are building what what
29:54people want?
29:55The people who are what I say they are,
29:58they are the ones they have to build.
30:01But whom are they building it for? For
30:03themselves.
30:04There's no other people separate from
30:06them except you and I because we want to
30:08go home. So, we want that place to be
30:10organized before we go home. We see
30:12problem, they see
30:14a way of life.
30:17>> So,
30:19is the suggestion
30:22>> [sighs]
30:22>> How do we go about this, Frank? I would
30:24I would have to ask you.
30:25>> The first important thing, I had a a
30:27conversation with a professor who comes
30:29from Haiti and he was here last week.
30:31He's going to drop.
30:33It's this has become my obsession for
30:35the last 18 years.
30:38I came to realize I was one once like
30:41you. I wrote notebooks of all kinds of
30:43things I thought if implemented my
30:46country Benin would change, Ghana would
30:48change,
30:49Togo would change. I thought it was
30:52about 18 or 20 something years ago
30:54that I came to realize realization.
30:58No.
31:00This is what we are. There's nothing
31:02wrong with it. But what is that this is?
31:04It's not
31:05difficult. Just go in and look at it.
31:10>> Um it has
31:12would you think it would have to be
31:14someone from the outside to bring
31:17awareness to this? Do you believe the
31:19people
31:20>> Awareness to what?
31:22>> To the state of the people or the state
31:25of the society that they live in.
31:27To show them there's a different way of
31:29living
31:29>> frustrating
31:31when you're trying to tell somebody who
31:32just simply sees what is normal as
31:34normal
31:35because he can manipulate it properly.
31:37It becomes very frustrating when you
31:39come from outside and tell him or her
31:41you're not supposed to be that way.
31:43That is what has caused the chaos right
31:44now. You see, we set them running a
31:47different path they are not familiar
31:48with.
31:50First, we have to make people accept.
31:53The Greeks did it. The Japanese did it.
31:55Even Americans did it.
31:58The thinkers of Europe in the Roman era
32:02what is common
32:04throughout the way they thought? Telling
32:07their people to first acknowledge who
32:08you are.
32:12>> Okay.
32:12Um
32:14we'll we'll carry the conversation with
32:16that. If the people are to accept who
32:18they are,
32:20what would be the next immediate step in
32:22terms of okay, how do we create a
32:26governance system from what we are?
32:29Is it possible to create it? Would it be
32:31a kingship uh hierarchy system? Would it
32:34be
32:36a centralized government system we would
32:38use or would we continue to implement
32:40this idea of
32:42separate but equal?
32:44>> First you have to look at if this is who
32:46they are, then what is missing that you
32:48want to fix?
32:51So even if you tell them and they come
32:53to accept that yes, this is what we are,
32:55which they know. But you see, like you
32:57said earlier, which I agree with you
32:58completely,
33:00when
33:01the colonials
33:02allowed that the window was open for
33:04Africans to see the world.
33:06It was not the other way around.
33:09The world
33:10only saw Africa because they could build
33:12systems that can make them explore.
33:15So the explorers first started, funded
33:17heavily by the the king of Portugal, and
33:19then followed by Spain, and then of
33:21course France, you know, all the
33:22monarchies who could
33:23you know,
33:24Columbus' travels were funded heavily by
33:27the Portuguese. So they could build
33:28because they know how to build because
33:30maybe their environment allowed that
33:31they should build things because you
33:33see,
33:35their thinking and their worldview,
33:37their culture,
33:39it's heavily scientific that they
33:40believe that the ocean is not God made
33:43that you can't see
33:45behind it.
33:46Astrology and all these people, where
33:48did the first person who said, "Look, I
33:50have studied the stars to conclude that
33:53the earth
33:54is not flat."
33:56That was in Italy, right? Maybe the
33:59Arabs did it long ago except they didn't
34:01write it.
34:02It was never in Africa.
34:04Our culture, the way we observe the
34:06universe,
34:08is simply whatever is within here for me
34:10is all that God gave that behind the
34:13ocean there couldn't be a land. So
34:15anyone whose scientific thinking allows
34:17them to think, "No, no, no, if I can be
34:19at this side of the ocean, then somebody
34:21else could be at the other side of the
34:23ocean." would be the one to risk his
34:25life to get into a boat or a ship and
34:27say, "Let me sail and see what is over
34:29there." So that's how they discovered
34:30us. And then they decided to colonize
34:32us. So now you see a total stranger
34:34different from you is now in your midst.
34:37Through him you were able to see his
34:39place.
34:40>> Right.
34:40>> And then you were able to see what he
34:42created when he was with you. And
34:44somehow as humans always do it, if you
34:47see something that is more flashy and
34:48nice, you you want it. So we started to
34:51want it. The only thing we didn't do is
34:53ask.
34:55If we have, it's one thing to want and
34:57own something. It's another thing to be
34:59able to keep and maintain and manage it.
35:02And that is where the problem started.
35:06Yes, we did
35:07we did collect it.
35:09They built it for us.
35:11We are the only race on Earth
35:14that was given a step up.
35:16Most countries build it from scratch. We
35:19build it on the back of colonials.
35:21Singapore, when they broke away after
35:23the independent, what did they they went
35:25back to what?
35:26Rice farms and swamps, flat hats and
35:30boots to catch fish.
35:34>> Okay.
35:35So do you follow what I'm trying to say,
35:37right?
35:38>> Yes, you have to go back to the same
35:39>> But we were colonized and things were
35:41built for us. So at least they gave us a
35:44leg up.
35:45>> It's cemented
35:49>> But what I keep saying is
35:52owning something, wanting it, having it
35:55is one thing.
35:57To be able to know do I have the
35:59ability, capabilities to be able to keep
36:01it, manage it, manipulate it so that
36:04it's advanced, you know, re-engineering.
36:06>> Okay, let's let's let's double back. So
36:09let's say, okay, the people are the way
36:12they are, we'll move forward.
36:15Who I guess who would go about letting
36:18them know, okay,
36:19these group of people here are capable
36:21of creating these factories, this
36:24infrastructure to make life easier for
36:27us. The
36:29transportation,
36:31maybe communication, something like
36:32that.
36:33>> roads, yes.
36:33>> Mhm. Teaching, things like
36:35>> When they say you you want to make the
36:37people know they are who they are, I I
36:39thought you were going to ask me to
36:40explain what what is the the who or the
36:43what they are. In the explanation for
36:45them to accept that they are who they
36:46are
36:47contains this.
36:49You were not meant
36:51to build these structures and manage it.
36:54This is your capability.
36:56It must be involved in that education.
36:59Not saying you are who you are means,
37:01"Oh, you are supposed to be coming to
37:02work late. And when you come to work,
37:04spend 1 hour telling your friend what
37:06you cooked and then ordering lunch and
37:08selling perfumes and things out of your
37:10bag at work." That's not what I meant.
37:12Knowing who you are is like simply
37:14saying, "If you are a a parent and your
37:18child is not performing at the same
37:20level of other children of his age."
37:24Well, they will advise you to seek
37:27a pediatric psychologist to take a look
37:29because they expect that a child of this
37:31age should be able to do X Y Z, the
37:33motor skills, the cogni Right? Your
37:36child is not able to do it. Your child
37:38is not able to spell simple words. So,
37:40you seek the help of a pediatric
37:42psychologist. They might come back and
37:44say your child is autistic.
37:46That's not any different. Your child is
37:48different.
37:50>> Okay. I think my takeaway from that is
37:51to seek the professionals.
37:53>> [laughter]
37:54>> Now, after the parent now have to say,
37:57"I accept it."
37:59And the question becomes, "How do you
38:00raise a child who has these challenges,
38:02right?" That's why we have the special
38:04ed classroom. Not because the kids
38:06Anything's wrong. They are different.
38:08You understand? Okay.
38:10So, now you know what you can allow this
38:11kid to do and know something not to do.
38:14Because you don't want to frustrate a
38:15kid.
38:17But if the if the mother and the father
38:18said, "You must be crazy. My child has
38:21no such problem. He's okay just like
38:23anybody else. Well, you set the child on
38:26the road to failure every day, and that
38:28is where we've put Africa.
38:31Because as you said from the beginning,
38:33we thought we can have them integrate in
38:36the world modern order. No. No. Those
38:39things are not something somebody
38:41created. Nobody created attitude and
38:45work ethics for the Japanese.
38:47It's within
38:48how they see the world. You see, I have
38:51obsessively talked about culture, and
38:53people reduce it to clothing and food
38:54and music.
38:56It has nothing to do with culture.
38:59If that is the case, then what is the
39:01point of talking about culture? Because
39:02there's no culture or society where
39:04there's no music, there's no clothing,
39:06there's no food. If that is what culture
39:08is, then why do we talk about? Why do we
39:10teach multicultural understanding and
39:12recognition and things like that?
39:14Culture has nothing to do with those
39:16things.
39:17Those things are like a flag. The colors
39:19of the flag will tell you this is New
39:21Zealand.
39:22But that the color itself doesn't
39:24represent New Zealand. It's just
39:27something to tell you, "Oh, that is a
39:28New Zealand flag." So, the clothing, the
39:31food, and the music, and the folk
39:34folklore only tells you, "Oh, these are
39:36Indians.
39:38These are Germans. These are French."
39:40But that is not the culture.
39:43That is just
39:45the symbol
39:47>> So, I dance a lot.
39:48>> of what they are. The culture is their
39:50worldview, meaning how they see each
39:53other
39:55and why they are chosen to remain as a
39:57people.
40:00What does it mean to the immediate
40:02community and to the extended community
40:06of the global village? That is culture.
40:08It guides you.
40:11It's similarly Did you see that when you
40:13went to Nigeria?
40:15As Nigeria as a country, not Europe, I
40:17not yes. Exactly.
40:20Now how are you going to introduce any
40:22model to help a place that has no
40:24identity?
40:26Amen. You see? So
40:30we could this could all be packaged and
40:33it is not anything strange it's happened
40:35in many places. But unfortunately for
40:38us, ours came at a time where there is
40:40too much information everywhere.
40:42By Africans themselves heavily
40:44influenced by African Americans. In the
40:47writings of Walter Rodney who damaged
40:50the entire race with his bogus book how
40:52Europe underdevelopment Africa. Emmanuel
40:56for you to under develop something the
40:58thing has to be developed already first
41:00and foremost for you to then go and
41:02under develop it. You cannot demolish a
41:03building that was not there.
41:05The building has to be built before you
41:07demolish it.
41:09So what did they
41:11under develop?
41:13Nothing.
41:14But you see
41:16the person who finds himself to be the
41:18underdog likes of someone to pity him
41:20and write something pity about him. You
41:22see you couldn't have been this way if
41:24not because of this person and you buy
41:25it and that is what is holding the
41:27African Americans down in the United
41:28States. So also the Caribbean and
41:31Africa. We love these pity books. Franz
41:34Fanon of Algeria who came from the
41:36Antilles to Algeria sees white people
41:40and felt that where he's coming from
41:42people are not sophisticated like this.
41:44Instead of him to be curious and rather
41:47associate with them he writes a book The
41:50Wretched of the Earth.
41:51And then when people like you and I were
41:53in France in those days, he would call
41:55us
41:56black skin white brain or white mind or
41:59something like that. Yes.
42:01And then that was him now. Number two.
42:04Walter Rodney, Franz Fanon and then
42:07comes the what is he called uh
42:11the the the uh
42:13militant group of the United States of
42:15America, the Black Panthers, you know?
42:18And then comes the civil rights with all
42:20fist pumping and things like that. And
42:22so slowly, why do you think largely
42:26the black race love these books and kept
42:29them alive? [clears throat]
42:30Because
42:32it it made you felt good that somebody
42:35finally has pointed out the boogeyman
42:37for why I am the way I am. And that
42:39delays you look inward because you have
42:41somebody to point to all the time. Yeah.
42:44Yeah. All right. So, to your question,
42:46if we can write and not write village
42:49stories books
42:52the Wole Soyinka's books, the Chinua
42:54Achebe's books, there is no deep social
42:56political philosophical book ever
42:58written by a black man to examine why
43:01are you the way you are. Socrates write
43:03wrote one, not write, but made arguments
43:07in public places.
43:09They hated it.
43:10It angered them, not because they
43:12thought he was lying. Cuz if they
43:13thought he was lying, they wouldn't have
43:15killed him. They would just, you know,
43:17yeah, ignore him and say he's a mad
43:19[clears throat] man.
43:20The kings want him gone because he made
43:23them uncomfortable. You're forcing us to
43:24think about something we don't want to.
43:27We want to believe and continue
43:28believing that Zeus and Apollo have made
43:31us powerful. How dare you say we should
43:33question them?
43:35>> So, I mean, the
43:38on Nigeria, the people
43:40they cannot be angry at people proposing
43:42solutions.
43:44What I've proposed in a way and
43:47what we've discussed so far are
43:48proposition and the only risk in those
43:52would be
43:54the possibility of it working or not
43:55working. But we have to try something
43:59something different.
44:00>> So, Emmanuel, what you have here I'll
44:02tell you. I didn't see any line that I
44:04said, "Oh, this is" No, man. In fact,
44:06I'm going to really, really because it
44:07it it's
44:09it has so many of the elements of what I
44:12have been thinking about, which I'm
44:13slowly putting together as as the as as
44:15the tribal nation.
44:17But and I don't want you to just agree
44:18with me. I I I can see already um you're
44:21thoughtful and very academic and
44:24intellectual in your discussions.
44:25This is my observation and and and the
44:28conclusion I have made, which I think,
44:30if you are looking for a solution, first
44:32you have to you have to be able to
44:34convince people that you see the
44:35problem. But you can't see the problem
44:36without the people.
44:38So, if you don't like the systems in
44:39Nigeria, they're not working, they're
44:41not good, then it means the people are
44:42not good, because people come before
44:44systems.
44:45Systems don't come
44:47before people, because people create
44:49systems. So, whatever you see in that
44:51country, whatever you see in Benin,
44:54is my old favorite saying, a place is
44:56only as good as the people who live in
44:58it.
45:00Because out of the people would come
45:02culture. People created culture.
45:05Not culture creating people. So, if you
45:06don't like the culture of a certain
45:08place, it means you don't like the
45:09people. You can't say, "I hate my
45:11husband, I love the marriage." It's
45:13impossible.
45:15>> So, how do we Is Is there such a thing
45:17as changing a culture? Is that possible?
45:20>> It's possible.
45:20>> Okay. How would you suggest or is there
45:23a proposal to go about this in terms of
45:26Okay, there's we should have an
45:28importance within this culture, we
45:29should have an importance of okay,
45:31education and even skilled people or
45:34developing skilled people that we are
45:36able to input back into the system in
45:38terms
45:40in return perpetually just rolling the
45:41wheel along. What do you think is the
45:43start?
45:44>> Absolutely.
45:45Very, very good point. Can we change a
45:46culture? And then how what is the
45:47process of changing the culture? Now,
45:49whenever you mention people like Chuma
45:51Mao, it's not that you're defending
45:53his actions. And I was surprised you
45:56talked about El Salvador, was your
45:58favorite, and then of course Singapore
46:00and um
46:01Um people hardly talk about uh
46:04um Chairman Mao. Okay.
46:07Uh but when I lived in Asia and I I
46:08traveled and I met some Chinese thinkers
46:11who wouldn't say it publicly, but they
46:13said, "Look, we couldn't be what we are
46:14today if not for Chairman Mao's
46:17ideology." Now, forget about the process
46:20by which he instilled it. Is it possible
46:22he could have done it without the heavy
46:24hand? I don't know.
46:26And so, I'm not in any way defending
46:29because people don't want anybody dead.
46:31>> Right.
46:32>> But you see, what did he say? He knew
46:34because he was from among them and he
46:36was a highly educated man. He knew the
46:39capabilities of the Chinese. He knew it
46:41because he looked at them, he studied
46:42them. But he knew that the culture
46:47which is they've opened the window to
46:49Western The Chinese were just too quick.
46:51They want to Westernize themselves.
46:52Their theater, their library, it's all
46:54Western. And so, what did he do? He
46:56established not an industrial
46:57revolution, but a cultural revolution.
47:01So, fast forward about 60 years later,
47:03Gaddafi attempted the same thing in
47:05Libya
47:06with his Green Book
47:08which is a cultural revolution. But no,
47:12he couldn't.
47:14>> Is it because the people Because his
47:16country
47:17>> His country was put together by
47:18foreigners. Libyans didn't found Libya.
47:22Chinese are from the Ming Dynasty that
47:25grew up, you know, so it is what we call
47:27bloodline. So, we got to be very careful
47:29when you talking about environment where
47:31people have a bloodline. Germans, the
47:33French, the English, Koreans and
47:36Japanese. This is a bloodline of a
47:38similar people.
47:40I can never become totally American.
47:44What does that mean when I say I'm
47:45American? What does it mean? I'm talking
47:48about American means I have a political
47:51relationship with this country through
47:53an allegiance that I swore and asked for
47:56citizenship.
47:57>> Mhm.
47:58>> This is why Japan, Korea, India, Russia,
48:00they said, "No, you cannot become a
48:02citizen. You can be here
48:03>> Mhm.
48:04>> permanent resident, but don't say I'm
48:06Japanese." It's impossible. For them,
48:08it's not a nationality. It's a culture.
48:10>> Mhm.
48:11>> Now, these are countries founded by the
48:13people who live in it.
48:16But here we are
48:19living in spaces founded by somebody
48:20else, which you said very correctly from
48:22the beginning.
48:23There is no way
48:25we can live together without sitting
48:28down and having someone come from
48:29outside, a think tank, if you you wish,
48:32to say, "Let's look around. Where has
48:35any place ever
48:37a foreigner
48:38forced
48:40very distinct tribes?" You see, this is
48:43the danger of Africa.
48:45See an African from the southern part of
48:47South Africa and see an African from
48:49North Africa. "Hey, brother, we are all
48:50brothers." No, we are not.
48:53That is mind-boggling. As if Europeans
48:55don't wear the same skin color. They do,
48:56but they don't call themselves brothers.
48:58Asians wear the same skin color. They
48:59don't call themselves brothers. But
49:01because we all suffered a similar
49:04phenomena, which is countries created
49:06artificially by a foreigner, we tend to
49:08refer to each other as a brother.
49:10>> Mhm.
49:12>> But we are not. A Yoruba man has nothing
49:15in common with an Igbo except skin
49:17color. Not even the food.
49:19>> Yeah.
49:20>> Not even the way to walk.
49:21>> Yeah.
49:22>> Or to even love a woman.
49:23>> Yeah.
49:24>> The Kalabari has nothing in common with
49:26any northerner.
49:28These are like you're talking about
49:29Chinese and French people forced to live
49:31together.
49:34And I think
49:35the Times magazine has to put on its
49:37cover
49:40the remarkable ability for Africans to
49:44be able to live that way
49:46for the last 70 years is not remarkable.
49:49It is.
49:51The relative peace we have been able to
49:53forge in such a confusing manner with
49:57different languages, lifestyle, culture,
49:59styles, and all that. But, we have to
50:01some extent lived with it. Some places,
50:05they would have been extinct by cutting
50:06each other's throat completely out.
50:08>> There's always a I think we're forcing
50:10it to remain that way because of the
50:12threat and the
50:14What do you It would have to be a fear
50:16of the war that will have almost
50:19inevitably after break out.
50:20>> No. If you are really under duress, like
50:22South Sudan did it, you break away, man.
50:25>> Mhm.
50:25>> You will break away. Many places, you
50:28break away. It's one thing also we don't
50:30even know.
50:31We don't know.
50:33>> Mhm.
50:34>> You know, when they use the word
50:38ignorance is bliss, people minimize it.
50:42The only reason the black race is still
50:44standing and moving and growing
50:48is the level of ignorance.
50:50When I say ignorance, I'm not saying
50:52stupid or dumb. The word ignorance
50:54doesn't mean you're stupid.
50:57It means when the brain forces you to
50:58ignore
51:00something.
51:02It's not an insult. So, people use it in
51:05Africa as an insult. You're an ignorant
51:06person. What am I What am I ignoring?
51:09>> Mhm.
51:09>> Ignoring your foolishness.
51:11>> Yeah.
51:12>> You understand? So, a certain level of
51:13ignorance allow people not to be
51:15extinct.
51:16What has kept us is our level of
51:18ignorance.
51:20Meaning these things don't trouble us.
51:22>> So,
51:24possibly looking into them would have to
51:26bring that
51:27awareness to it, which in turn brings
51:30the threat of
51:31>> The awareness is to take away the
51:34frustration. The awareness is to make
51:36people begin to feel proud when they go
51:39out. I am what I am. Otherwise, what How
51:41would you recognize me?
51:42What you are trying to change about me
51:44is actually what makes you recognize me
51:46as a Nigerian or a Beninois or a
51:48Togolese or African? Let's just say so.
51:51We all can be the same.
51:53>> Right.
51:53>> Even among white people, when you look
51:55at the skin color, but if you put them
51:57in the same place, you can tell the
51:59behavior of Danish, Italians, oh that
52:02you can tell.
52:03And then the English, and if there's
52:05Americans, oh yeah, they are the first
52:06you can tell.
52:09Even white people of the same skin color
52:11in an airport lobby.
52:14>> Yes.
52:15>> Yes. Yes. So, what I'm trying to say is,
52:17how else would we be Africans if there's
52:19nothing to say, "Oh yeah, I know I've
52:21encountered an African." It's not a skin
52:22color.
52:23>> Right.
52:24>> You see more than that.
52:26>> So, a culture can be
52:29>> changed
52:29>> either changed or created.
52:31>> Yeah, you can recreate it. You can
52:32recreate a a culture. It's simply
52:35instilling it the the view Okay, let's
52:38say for example, NGOs and corporations.
52:40What is the first thing you read when
52:42you go on their website?
52:43>> Mission.
52:44>> Mission statement. That is the culture
52:45I'm talking about. That is a worldview.
52:47It guides the employees. You all have to
52:49buy into this in order for us
52:52for the bottom line, for where we are
52:54going. Outcome. Outcome. So, every NGO
52:57creates first a mission statement, which
53:00is, "We are a family of people." You
53:02know? An NGO or a corporation, just one
53:04is nonprofit, one is profit. They are
53:06the same thing. Somebody founds it
53:08>> Mhm.
53:08>> or a group of people found it. Like a a
53:11a a family founds a land, and then it
53:13becomes a nation.
53:14>> Mhm.
53:14>> The English founded what is today called
53:16England, right? The same thing. A group
53:18of friends or founds an NGO. First thing
53:22you write is the mission statement. That
53:25is
53:26>> what's missing.
53:27>> That's what is missing.
53:29You write the mission statement.
53:31And maybe, I'll tell you the truth,
53:32maybe controversial.
53:35If everything you and I are proposing
53:39law and order
53:41structures
53:42and you introduce it
53:44maybe it another 50 years, there will be
53:46no more any African. They die.
53:48>> Mhm.
53:50>> Sometimes
53:51people are able to manipulate their
53:53environment the way we are seeing in
53:55Africa is what has kept that continent
53:57growing and strong. And boy, are we
53:59pumping out babies.
54:02But once you think you can organize it,
54:06they may not be able to fit into it.
54:08So, they say you should be careful, man,
54:11what you are looking to change.
54:13So, it is important.
54:16We are in 2026.
54:17>> Mhm.
54:18>> Next year, March, Ghana will be 70
54:21years.
54:22>> [snorts]
54:23>> Add another from the time 9/11 happened,
54:26and Ghana will be 100 years.
54:30>> I think the for the people in the region
54:34called Nigeria now, cuz I mean, in a
54:36way, what would be a Nigerian, as you
54:38mentioned earlier, cuz it's it's
54:40different if you were to go to
54:42each quarter
54:44west, north, wherever you go, it's it's
54:46really quite different. It's not the
54:47same.
54:48>> Yeah.
54:49>> Apart from the languages, the practices
54:51and traditional is is very different.
54:53>> Yeah.
54:53>> Is there a way to bring
54:55this embodiment of embodiment of
54:57Nigerian under one mission?
55:00>> Yeah, but the question becomes who bells
55:02the cat?
55:03Who would introduce it? If a Yoruba
55:05introduce it, it'll be sabotaged before
55:07noon by the northerners.
55:08>> Yeah.
55:08>> If a northerner introduce it, it'll be
55:09sabotaged by the south before noon.
55:12>> That's so.
55:13>> You have to be careful. There are many
55:14countries that enjoyed that they were
55:16But then again, it's a question of
55:18intellect.
55:19The people have to from within.
55:21>> Mhm.
55:22>> One person that looks like us have to
55:25put forth that type of thing. Or, you
55:28have to resort to what is called
55:31a philosopher dictator. First, you have
55:33to have intelligence about the matter.
55:35Study it for years, and you and your
55:36team. You see, all the Abacha's. Look,
55:39today Africans need you to I tell you
55:41the level of ignorance that they are
55:43celebrating Ibrahim Traore. As soon as I
55:45mention his name now, many people are
55:47pissed off because they wanted one
55:49showboy. What did he do? Each time a
55:52black person sticks it to a white man,
55:54that is when we celebrate him. We want
55:56so much that oh my god, we also could
55:59because we put the white people so high
56:02above us that if one of us says, "Yeah,
56:04I can kick him out."
56:07So, all his popularity is that he told
56:09the French to leave. Yeah. Nobody has
56:11given him even 5 years to see if he will
56:13survive without them. In the first 2
56:16years when he overthrew the other guy,
56:18they are already celebrating him because
56:21he told the French to leave. That's the
56:23accomplishment.
56:26You understand where we are?
56:28>> That's where we are.
56:30>> Recently, they are celebrating Ghana
56:32because he said, "No, I won't go with
56:34the health pact that was, you know,
56:36being discussed." Zimbabwe accepted it
56:38with a little adjustment. Zimbabwe
56:40accepted it. Even Kenya did. But because
56:42Muhammad said, "No, we refuse it." They
56:45said, "Yes, we should vote him again."
56:48The reason is, Emmanuel, I'm not
56:50insulting anybody.
56:51The reason is since you grew up, you've
56:53read many books.
56:55You have not read one political
56:57philosophical book written by an
56:59African. It's always village stories.
57:04>> Could we be governed more under
57:07say, early nights and whatever
57:09pre-colonialism? It was more of a
57:12a leadership type kingsman or it's to
57:16the king of the town.
57:16>> Traditional traditional administration.
57:18>> Something like that.
57:19>> Yeah, but then you what you would have,
57:21which I think one of the things
57:24tribal nation would accomplish is not
57:26economic development. No, I wasn't talk
57:28It's not going to automatically just
57:30make them become manufacturing
57:31countries. One of the things it would
57:33guarantee, and I promise you that, is
57:35absolute peace.
57:38Coup d'état will vanish. With a tribal
57:40nation structure, nobody would overthrow
57:42anybody because you reduce the power of
57:44the president completely and make it
57:46into autonomous, as you said, whatever
57:49they want to call it, right? But all it
57:51guarantees is a people who now do things
57:54among themselves and you set a
57:56competition between the tribes.
57:58With no central government. But what
58:00does that mean? It will go back to the
58:02same thing. You go to the lake, you
58:04bring water, you clean, you wash, you
58:06give birth so many times, you reach 78
58:08and you die.
58:12What we are talking about is capability,
58:15man. You got to be able to say, "I know
58:18we have the capability." Well, I will
58:19ask you, show me anywhere on Earth where
58:21it has been displayed. None. But I
58:24forgot.
58:26The zealots will say,
58:28"We built the pyramids."
58:31Yeah. No, we were the Moors.
58:35Something that doesn't
58:36build clinics and roads and solar
58:39systems. You understand? If I ask anyone
58:42to
58:42show me more than they in the last 100
58:44years
58:45as compared to other countries, they
58:47will start talking about something that
58:48happened 4,000 years ago where
58:50archaeologists and scientists are even
58:51marveling, did the human beings do this
58:53or not? So, it means that we have
58:55nothing but recent. The tribal nation
58:58would just simply remove the tension we
58:59have right now. Completely remove the
59:01tension.
59:02I said, that's all I'm what That is what
59:05would allow people
59:06in a smaller group of themselves to
59:08think about, what do we need?
59:10Do we need roads?
59:13Yes.
59:14Because we are importing foreign cars.
59:17It may even force them to think about
59:19you are only allowed to impose these
59:20type of car, as Japan does, as Singapore
59:23does, as many places are doing. You
59:25don't just import. Look at Nigeria right
59:27now.
59:29They are importing Lamborghinis and
59:31Bentleys.
59:33We are a culture of status.
59:38Because the country has no control on
59:40anything.
59:42No control.
59:44So the poor is growing larger and
59:45larger. As the GDP grows doesn't
59:47necessarily guarantee that poverty No,
59:49it does is not true at all. There's a
59:51place with very high GDP, but that is
59:53only GDP. Has nothing to do with the
59:55ability of the people
59:57for them to be able to be creative,
59:59innovative, build, establish by
1:00:02yourself.
1:00:03That is different from GDP don't give
1:00:05people capabilities. You might import
1:00:07goods into the country.
1:00:10>> But it doesn't trickle down.
1:00:11>> It doesn't change anything.
1:00:12>> Um okay,
1:00:13I'm I'm tracking what you're you're
1:00:15mentioning. So um the idea that I would
1:00:18that I'm proposing at least for now is
1:00:20to bring in the professionals in a way.
1:00:22>> Yeah.
1:00:23>> If there is
1:00:25But we have to start with the mission.
1:00:26And I think the mission would be around
1:00:28first everyone can agree on education,
1:00:31the health, and the the potential of the
1:00:33country at least.
1:00:34>> What is education you're talking about?
1:00:35>> Education in terms of which model we're
1:00:37going to follow cuz currently right now
1:00:39>> It doesn't matter.
1:00:41>> Right now I believe it's the British
1:00:43model.
1:00:43>> been It doesn't matter. You've been
1:00:45educating each other from what? 70 years
1:00:47now to read and write.
1:00:51There's nothing to do with the
1:00:52education.
1:00:54People keep saying it all
1:00:55>> the time.
1:00:56>> The education system have failed our
1:00:58people. What do you mean the education
1:00:59system have failed your people? Do you
1:01:01know the
1:01:03Rome was
1:01:05village of a group of villagers who were
1:01:07planting things and killing animals.
1:01:10Where were the schools? There were no
1:01:12schools. There was no education system.
1:01:16>> But what I'm more referring to was a
1:01:18reformation. We needed an educated
1:01:20society.
1:01:21>> We are educated. What is education?
1:01:23>> We are educated.
1:01:24>> Look at you.
1:01:25How many of you You have a private
1:01:27school.
1:01:28>> Mhm.
1:01:29>> Wait, how many 30 years ago? Private
1:01:30schools in Nigeria. Your children are
1:01:32going to private schools and then go
1:01:34outside to Oxford University. Do you
1:01:36know almost 60% of 60% of the
1:01:39independent fighters, meaning the
1:01:41presidents who gained independence for
1:01:43us. Do you know 60%? They all studied
1:01:44abroad.
1:01:46>> [clears throat]
1:01:47>> And they all came home.
1:01:49They said Joseph Mugabe had how many
1:01:51over 20 degrees?
1:01:54What did he do with it?
1:01:56It's not education, my friend.
1:01:57[clears throat]
1:02:01It's traditional knowledge, indigenous
1:02:04education first and foremost.
1:02:06Then you can take the foreign one and
1:02:08build on it. See, Singapore, Hong Kong
1:02:10is top of them, then Korea, China,
1:02:12Japan. They are importing these American
1:02:15English Teachers Association to come and
1:02:16teach English in their country because
1:02:19they knew we are ready. We can face the
1:02:20world.
1:02:22>> Mhm.
1:02:23>> So for them, they have a traditional
1:02:25education system first.
1:02:28And then they began to open the door and
1:02:29say, "Study English. Bring it in."
1:02:33So it's not education. If you don't have
1:02:35indigenous technology, innovative
1:02:37indigenous innovative education is
1:02:39useless. You can only read fairy tales
1:02:41like uh Julia Romeo and Juliet
1:02:44and then put it on your shelf.
1:02:47>> Mhm. Okay.
1:02:48>> Now the question is, who is going to do
1:02:50the education?
1:02:51>> It's a it's a it's a paradox we're in.
1:02:53>> That's correct, you know. So first of
1:02:55all, I agree with you. We need
1:02:57outsiders, but the question is who goes
1:02:59for the outsiders? All these people who
1:03:01are spending money on buying homes
1:03:03abroad and the Nigerians and the
1:03:05Ghanaians and the French people
1:03:06going out and building and buying
1:03:09beautiful things because we come from a
1:03:10a culture of status, what you wear
1:03:13and even how much you allow yourself to
1:03:15grow fat.
1:03:16>> Mhm.
1:03:17>> Get the door open for you. Slim people
1:03:19like me, no.
1:03:22You [snorts] can come home with all the
1:03:23degrees you have. I better start eating
1:03:25quickly and grow stomach and a beard and
1:03:27that's it.
1:03:28Think of that.
1:03:31Think of that. Think of how important it
1:03:33is if somebody call you, but started
1:03:35with "Hey, Chief Immanuel only."
1:03:38Everything else, you can get a loan from
1:03:39the bank. They wouldn't even ask you for
1:03:41an ID. I am only showing things that are
1:03:44buried in the system so much if you
1:03:46don't attend to those things, Immanuel.
1:03:47Anything we write
1:03:50>> will fall.
1:03:51>> will fall.
1:03:52Let's start first maybe with the tribal
1:03:54nation.
1:03:55Okay? And then slowly
1:03:57if somebody
1:04:00has to have the knowledge, and maybe
1:04:02that's why these conversations are
1:04:03important. A Gen Z who is listening
1:04:07is going to become something one day
1:04:08soon, in the next 15 years.
1:04:12And he may found a way
1:04:15to say, "Yes,
1:04:17I can work with the colonials. I've seen
1:04:19how things are done."
1:04:21Many places took it upon The Middle
1:04:23East, they allowed they opened the doors
1:04:25for the Europeans to influence their
1:04:27environment.
1:04:27>> Mhm.
1:04:28>> While they are still holding on to their
1:04:29traditions and religion tight.
1:04:32But you see how they've modernized
1:04:34by allowing those who can to come in and
1:04:37live among them. They They were
1:04:39colonized and brutalized and called
1:04:41savages by the British or by the
1:04:43Europeans.
1:04:45But do you see them repeating it in
1:04:46their books and their movies? No.
1:04:48They've opened the doors
1:04:50>> and let it go.
1:04:51>> and let them come in
1:04:53for the sake of their children, man.
1:04:55We, unfortunately, we don't write.
1:04:58We don't have intellectuals.
1:05:01So, anything anybody write, especially
1:05:03if he's sticking it to the white man,
1:05:05like Julius Malema
1:05:06Malema of South Africa. Yes.
1:05:10Yeah, even in here, when you go on
1:05:11social media, the popular ones are the
1:05:13ones taking it to the white man. But you
1:05:16know you can't survive without them.
1:05:18There's no way.
1:05:20There's no way. The emotion, but we need
1:05:23a think tank. We need it.
1:05:26And that think tank's job is to say, you
1:05:28know, study our culture. We didn't ask
1:05:31to be put to together this way, but we
1:05:33want to retain it this way. How do we go
1:05:35about working with it? Somebody will
1:05:37come up with ideas. It will be embraced
1:05:39by
1:05:40the public.
1:05:41>> Mhm.
1:05:42>> But what you do is that's when
1:05:44propaganda comes in. People think of the
1:05:46word propaganda is No, it's not. You
1:05:48educate the masses until they the buy-in
1:05:50is there.
1:05:51>> Mhm.
1:05:52>> Part of the conversation. People did it
1:05:54in schools.
1:05:55Uh Gaddafi attempted it with his green
1:05:57green book.
1:05:58>> Mhm.
1:05:58>> Jamahiriya Arab Socialist Republic of
1:06:01Libya. How I'm going to make tomorrow
1:06:02become. The role of women in my society.
1:06:04He wrote all those things in a green
1:06:06book. But there was no buy-in because he
1:06:08didn't, you know, spend time on
1:06:11educating into all the spheres and
1:06:14influences.
1:06:15So we need that.
1:06:17>> We need to know ourselves first.
1:06:18>> Yeah, first you have to forget about Oh,
1:06:21we are hungry and kids are dying. Well,
1:06:23we've been dying like that since polio
1:06:25broke out. We are still there. We
1:06:27haven't gone anywhere.
1:06:30But we got to accept what we see is not
1:06:32separate from the people. So you can't
1:06:34cure the system
1:06:36and change the system and yet not touch
1:06:39the people or have them examine. Now if
1:06:42it's a natural disaster, you attend to
1:06:45the result and not the people because
1:06:47it's a natural disaster.
1:06:49>> And
1:06:50with a cultural revolution, if we were
1:06:52to
1:06:54I guess propose it in a way now.
1:06:57That from where you've built upon with
1:07:00the propaganda and such and such, people
1:07:02would have to buy in.
1:07:03>> Mhm.
1:07:04>> However, there's always a
1:07:06with the
1:07:08previous generation maybe one or two
1:07:10removed
1:07:11they're usually adamant or stubborn
1:07:13about the change cuz you know the way
1:07:16they went through life they believe it's
1:07:18worked and it worked before them and
1:07:20they want to continue that way but the
1:07:22new generation is looking at it and with
1:07:26social media and just the
1:07:29age of the internet as a whole are
1:07:30looking at okay
1:07:32if we're not
1:07:34capable in a way or if it's this is
1:07:36something that's never happened maybe
1:07:38we're just not able to do it we can at
1:07:40least introduce plans
1:07:42>> Yeah.
1:07:43>> that can be managed by others and we be
1:07:45the beneficiary of it.
1:07:47>> Yeah. I'm planning a discussion with a
1:07:50professor who is currently in the UK. I
1:07:53think she will listen and she will know
1:07:54I'm talking about her. She was in
1:07:56Portugal and then she moved to Spain.
1:07:58Originally a Yoruba woman
1:08:00>> Mhm.
1:08:01>> highly educated is living in the UK and
1:08:04we've been having hours of discussion
1:08:06and we're making a plan. See
1:08:08let me share this with you. When I
1:08:10launch
1:08:11my talks the first people I want mind to
1:08:15change is not Africans.
1:08:18The first people I would target to have
1:08:21them change their mind about Africa
1:08:23is the international community
1:08:25the Western world.
1:08:30Um
1:08:33you know
1:08:36there's a certain level of
1:08:37compassion. Look, compassion driven
1:08:40actions never yields anything.
1:08:43And the West has been forced to treat
1:08:46the race Africa
1:08:48with compassion
1:08:50and this pity feeling
1:08:52pity politics.
1:08:53>> Mhm.
1:08:54>> With all good intentions I'll tell you
1:08:55that for sure. Maybe you've lived here
1:08:57long enough you can tell.
1:08:58>> Mhm.
1:08:59>> Because they know the potential they are
1:09:00missing that if Africa could change,
1:09:02they will become richer also.
1:09:04>> Mhm.
1:09:06>> So, when they attend to these issues,
1:09:08they also buy into these
1:09:11utopia communist socialist leaning
1:09:13ideology to say, "Somebody is the one
1:09:16causing these people to be this way. We
1:09:17feel sorry for the African." You
1:09:20remember the '70s and the '80s and then
1:09:21the mid '90s, the swell of charity
1:09:25organizations that flooded the continent
1:09:27of Africa. That was compassion-driven
1:09:29action, no thought in it. And it
1:09:32destroyed and delayed anything we would
1:09:34have done by. So, for me, my talks would
1:09:37would inform the international
1:09:39community, the Western world especially,
1:09:40which is attractive to the Africans, to
1:09:42look, first and foremost, you want these
1:09:44people to feel respected, accept them
1:09:47and know that what you have said about
1:09:49us is who we are.
1:09:51First and foremost,
1:09:52that way the Western countries will stop
1:09:55putting any expectations and standards
1:09:58on what they want us to become. You
1:10:00remember the agenda 2030,
1:10:03Kenya was one of them, 2030, that by
1:10:062030 the IMF and everybody was expecting
1:10:09that we should be able to have XYZ, all
1:10:11physical structures, and nobody talk
1:10:13about the software.
1:10:16Kenya is 4 years away from
1:10:19the agenda 2030.
1:10:23Ghana is 4 years away from it.
1:10:25So, my one is to make the European
1:10:27countries begin to look at what they are
1:10:29saying
1:10:31as this is who they are.
1:10:33So, stop putting your standards and
1:10:35expectations, which the African is the
1:10:37one who accepted that I could have been
1:10:39like you if not for colonization.
1:10:42If we can achieve that,
1:10:46we will go somewhere.
1:10:47>> That'll be progress.
1:10:48>> Number two, it will then inform the
1:10:49Western countries to rethink their
1:10:52immigration policies.
1:10:54Because they think, "Well, they are in
1:10:57in Ghana, Nigeria, whatever, and
1:10:58colonial affected them. They don't have
1:11:00X Y Z. If I bring them to my country, we
1:11:03have X Y Z, all the resources, it will
1:11:05change them. No, it doesn't. Because we
1:11:08are who we are.
1:11:10We manipulate Africa.
1:11:13We can manipulate your over-regulated
1:11:15societies.
1:11:19>> But Frank, a cultural revolution from
1:11:23where they've been implemented, say
1:11:25Singapore and China from the example
1:11:28earlier.
1:11:29Well, Singapore was a bit different, but
1:11:32>> Well, it was a soft revolution.
1:11:33>> Sure.
1:11:33>> Yeah.
1:11:34>> Uh a majority of it was
1:11:36pretty strong arm, and
1:11:38>> Mhm.
1:11:39>> from the discussion
1:11:40>> you said something, you threw it in
1:11:42there, people didn't hear you. It's a
1:11:44high-trust society.
1:11:51>> Yeah, I don't What I'm thinking is is
1:11:55the only left at least to explore
1:11:57>> No, it it is important in multicultural
1:12:00when you do advanced multicultural
1:12:01understanding. You first have to examine
1:12:03and say, what is the level of trust
1:12:04among these people or in this culture or
1:12:06in this society? There's nothing wrong.
1:12:08Low-trust cultures, the low trust was
1:12:11necessary, it evolved and it's necessary
1:12:13because that is what has protected the
1:12:14people. It's not that when you say it's
1:12:16low trust, therefore it's bad. No.
1:12:19It The environment, their history, their
1:12:22experience, low trust was necessary.
1:12:25Jesus, if you go to
1:12:27University of Ife and you read the
1:12:29anthropologies of William and his
1:12:32caliber, dude, we were scared of each
1:12:34other. You have to cut the faces of
1:12:35people so that they can identify who is
1:12:37like me, so you don't go to the other
1:12:39people. You have to wear mask,
1:12:40clothings, all these was meant for
1:12:43African tribes to identify each other so
1:12:44you don't fall in trouble with the other
1:12:46person.
1:12:47>> Yeah.
1:12:48Yeah. They still do that to this day.
1:12:51>> You understand? that. So,
1:12:52it was necessary that tribes were
1:12:54fighting for space
1:12:55>> Yes.
1:12:56>> back before the Europeans arrived. We
1:12:58were fighting for space, and the
1:12:59stronger ones have to then fake invented
1:13:02voodoo to scare enemies and say if you
1:13:05if you come to our place and you step in
1:13:06our water, you get elephantiasis. This
1:13:09is how you know, Ganvie, the most
1:13:12tourist attracted place in Benin, was
1:13:13built where now close to about 30,000
1:13:16people live on water.
1:13:17>> Mhm.
1:13:18>> Escaping from a wicked Abomey tribe. So,
1:13:21they dove into the water. Luckily, they
1:13:23were fishermen, they know how to swim
1:13:25and hold their breath, and they said the
1:13:26rumor spread like a propaganda. If you
1:13:28follow them to their water, you you get
1:13:30elephantiasis. So, the Abomey people
1:13:31stayed That's legend.
1:13:33>> Mhm.
1:13:33>> And then the people began to build stilt
1:13:35houses, and today 30,000 live on water
1:13:39in Ganvie. So, you can go to Benin and
1:13:41now go to Ganvie and see. So, the canoe
1:13:44will take you from the dry land, and
1:13:45everything else The schools are in
1:13:47canoes. The the um
1:13:49corner stores where you sell, you know,
1:13:51they're in canoes. And the woman will
1:13:53paddle to your your your doorstep, as
1:13:55you call it, and you you buy from there.
1:13:57When they go on date at night, I stayed
1:13:59overnight.
1:13:59>> Mhm.
1:14:00>> So, the girl will take her small canoe,
1:14:01the guy takes, and then you paddle, and
1:14:03you're side by side, and you kiss and
1:14:04talk. It's still going on till today.
1:14:07>> Mhm.
1:14:07>> Okay? So, you must understand the
1:14:09severity of tribes trying to just secure
1:14:12the piece of land we found. Hey, man,
1:14:13this is a riverside, and we want to stay
1:14:15here, but Abomey people are coming, the
1:14:17Yorubas are coming.
1:14:18>> Mhm.
1:14:18>> The Igbo people are coming.
1:14:20>> Mhm.
1:14:20>> They will kill you. So, you got to mark
1:14:22each other so that you can protect each
1:14:24other. So, that alone, first you live in
1:14:26a very low-trust society.
1:14:29Now, if you live in a place like
1:14:30Singapore, Japan, where they also had
1:14:32their problems, but every time you look
1:14:34at the other person,
1:14:36you're seeing a unit of you.
1:14:39That whatever he's doing is for the
1:14:41upliftment of the community.
1:14:44Kurashi, which is to work until you die
1:14:46from work. Happens in Japan. The
1:14:49government has now started a program to
1:14:50say, "Hey, we need a non-profit to stop
1:14:53people from working to die." It's part
1:14:55of them.
1:14:57They don't look down upon it.
1:14:59Mhm.
1:15:01Shikoto
1:15:02is the English equivalent of the
1:15:04Japanese equivalent of the word work.
1:15:06But when you look deep and they explain
1:15:08it, it's not just work.
1:15:11It's
1:15:12I do for the I'm working for the
1:15:14community, not to buy cars and show off.
1:15:17No status in Japan. No.
1:15:19And the more you're trying to stand out,
1:15:21the more they look down on you.
1:15:23>> Mhm.
1:15:24>> I work for the community because for
1:15:27them, they are they are not units. They
1:15:29are a collective.
1:15:31If you want to say, "I will import how
1:15:33Japanese work and bring it to Nigeria."
1:15:35Well, you look like a fool and you
1:15:36frustrate the people.
1:15:39>> So, we have to go back to
1:15:43how we were probable
1:15:44>> Yes.
1:15:45>> Possibly how we were
1:15:47prior to this force engagement.
1:15:49>> If we want to take a look at that, and
1:15:51you said something I agree with you.
1:15:53Maybe the answer is not to say, "Oh,
1:15:54disintegrate." No, it's not. You can
1:15:56still be together. You know, 13 colonies
1:15:59were left in the Western world by the
1:16:01English and 13 colonies. And they all
1:16:03had very separate legal systems,
1:16:05administration, all kinds of things. If
1:16:06you look at the 13 colonies, which has
1:16:08now become 50 states. But somehow they
1:16:11called each other and said, "We need to
1:16:13come together under one federation." Why
1:16:15was it possible? They were not different
1:16:17tribes. These were Caucasians of a
1:16:20certain lineage blood.
1:16:22Except that they were forced by the
1:16:25administration to be colonies. [snorts]
1:16:27>> Mhm. Mhm.
1:16:28>> But there is a world view.
1:16:31You are white, you are English.
1:16:33We come from the manifest destiny.
1:16:36>> Mhm.
1:16:37>> We are supposed to civilize and conquer
1:16:40the world.
1:16:42If we become together, we can do it
1:16:44strongly. Then when they came together,
1:16:45they knew they were only 13. Let's
1:16:47expand.
1:16:49You see, high trust society would allow
1:16:50that, and they expanded to 50.
1:16:55So, we got to also look at these things,
1:16:57like you said, "Okay, this is a very low
1:16:59trust society. No wonder bribery works.
1:17:01No wonder nepotism works. No wonder, you
1:17:04know, this and this and that." How do
1:17:05you then introduce And people who have
1:17:08studied this, anthropology, sociology,
1:17:10cultural They would They would be able
1:17:12to organize something. Hey, Rome could
1:17:14come together and stop burning. Huh?
1:17:17It's possible. Japan to stop the freedom
1:17:19fight and become a one powerful, strong,
1:17:22united homogeneous country. It's
1:17:24powerful. It can be done. China to take
1:17:27a different Yes.
1:17:29But you need, as I said,
1:17:32philosophers
1:17:34dictators.
1:17:37They should know these things.
1:17:38And therefore, they form a cabinet of
1:17:40such mind. They give to the universities
1:17:42what you want. And if you don't have it,
1:17:44then you go to outside think tanks,
1:17:46which plenty The Hoover Center,
1:17:48Smithsonian, you name it, that can say,
1:17:50"Yes."
1:17:51Otherwise, if we continue with these
1:17:53presidential speeches
1:17:55that the Ghana president is giving all
1:17:56over the place, we are still asking for
1:17:58pity, which has never helped build any
1:18:00place.
1:18:01We got to look at the people first.
1:18:05Otherwise,
1:18:07you do what happened in Kenya,
1:18:10and then followed by Tanzania.
1:18:12So, when you go to East Africa, the
1:18:13largest slum in the whole of, I think,
1:18:16after Soweto, is Kibera
1:18:19in Nairobi, right in the center of the
1:18:21city, capital city. It's massive.
1:18:25So, the government thought,
1:18:27"Oh, the people would like, you know, a
1:18:29well-built two-bedroom fridge,
1:18:32uh What do you call it?
1:18:35Plumbing, internal plumbing, or whatever
1:18:37you call it. Yeah, okay? Everything is
1:18:39inside. And they did. The government
1:18:41approved the budget and they built it.
1:18:44Beautiful. I think six floor or three
1:18:46floors. Each one, a kitchen inside, a
1:18:50free, you know,
1:18:51bathroom.
1:18:53>> Yeah. They built it.
1:18:56And they put the people in it.
1:19:00And they step outside, turn around,
1:19:02rented it to somebody else, and live
1:19:03straight in the slum.
1:19:06>> Interesting.
1:19:07>> Tanzania did the same thing.
1:19:09In 2004, I was there to do a speaking
1:19:12this thing. And the guy, the driver,
1:19:13showed me the place.
1:19:15>> [snorts]
1:19:15>> Tall, tall, tall, nice buildings,
1:19:18beautiful street in front of it, a
1:19:20little garden here and there.
1:19:22They asked all the people to get out of
1:19:24the metal shack places where they are
1:19:28just peeing and doing everything
1:19:30outside,
1:19:31>> Mhm.
1:19:31>> and put them in.
1:19:33Only 2 years, those who remained inside,
1:19:36the inside looked worse than where they
1:19:38were living.
1:19:39Majority of them, they either rent it,
1:19:41give it to somebody [snorts] else.
1:19:44>> Software.
1:19:45>> So, we got to be very careful.
1:19:49>> So, yeah, we'd have to
1:19:51proposably, we'd have to um
1:19:55the only way we can we have to reset.
1:19:58>> We have to reset, correct.
1:20:00>> You have to reset. And the question
1:20:02becomes, you might think what you're
1:20:03discussing here, what you are writing is
1:20:05going to waste. No. Like they say, the
1:20:07the old man who planted a tree never
1:20:09never never sit under the shade. What
1:20:11you're doing is good. There could be a
1:20:13reason you were taken outside, and then
1:20:16you can look inside from outside, and
1:20:17then you went back and you said, "No,
1:20:19this cannot continue this way." Well,
1:20:21for the people, it's working.
1:20:25Okay? Nigeria went from just 130 million
1:20:281984, now they say they are 200. Japan
1:20:30went from 126 million. I I I
1:20:32I doubt they are around 130 million.
1:20:35They are shrinking fast. Germany is
1:20:36shrinking. You You are growing. They
1:20:38said what? According to Kamala Harris,
1:20:41in the next 50 years, half of the world
1:20:43will be all Africa because of the age of
1:20:45the people. The youngest age group in
1:20:47the whole world today is Africans.
1:20:49That's what we are buying now. So, check
1:20:52this out. You thought the place is bad.
1:20:55But boy, can they breed? Yes, they can.
1:20:57Are they dying? No. They manipulate the
1:21:00environment.
1:21:04Maybe we function what you're seeing
1:21:07today about
1:21:08what we are doing
1:21:10is just about how much we can do. That's
1:21:13all we have in us. The ability to
1:21:16manipulate that environment.
1:21:19And that's it. That's it. And for any
1:21:22one of us who would look from outside
1:21:23and say, "Oh, look at them. They're
1:21:25doing this." No. First, accept that what
1:21:28you are seeing
1:21:30is based purely
1:21:33on the ability of the people. Emmanuel,
1:21:35that is why you describe one black
1:21:37place, you've described the entire race.
1:21:40Either they are in the Caribbean,
1:21:42either they live among white people in
1:21:44Europe, in the Americas, in Asia. When
1:21:47you go there,
1:21:49you just see exactly what they could be
1:21:53on the continent.
1:21:59You see France recently. You've seen
1:22:02London. You've seen Denmark.
1:22:06The Africans are not bad and not stupid.
1:22:08You open the door thinking that you
1:22:11think they don't have resources. That is
1:22:13why they trash their city.
1:22:15Therefore, if they come to your city and
1:22:17you have your trash bins line up the
1:22:19street, they will put it in. No.
1:22:22They will do a funeral on the street in
1:22:25front of their building. Then you get
1:22:27pissed off.
1:22:28Now you're going to call them.
1:22:30So the trick is do not continue with
1:22:32this immigration policy because when you
1:22:34try to correct them in your country, you
1:22:36are racist.
1:22:40We can help while they are in their
1:22:42country.
1:22:44But first this would only be done
1:22:46through a think tank.
1:22:48And if you're going to overthrow anyone,
1:22:50it has to be done by somebody
1:22:52who's a philosopher.
1:22:56>> [clears throat]
1:22:57>> Well,
1:22:59those are the ideas I have, Frank.
1:23:01>> The ideas are good. I swear keep working
1:23:03on it.
1:23:04You know, they say when you're building
1:23:05a car somebody's working on the engine,
1:23:07right? And somebody's working on the
1:23:08chassis. They are not the same
1:23:10expertise. So maybe you've written
1:23:11yours. It's not going to go to waste. I
1:23:13am looking to see how I can make a link
1:23:15out of it or if you can do it. So my
1:23:18next live I can share and let people
1:23:20read it. I don't know who is going to
1:23:22get hold of it and say I have the idea.
1:23:24And if they come here I will ask them
1:23:26the same question. What what problem are
1:23:27you trying to solve?
1:23:30And when did you discover the problem?
1:23:33And how did you discover it?
1:23:36Who is dying on the streets today?
1:23:39Be careful when you want to organize
1:23:40people. Sometimes you throw in chaos
1:23:43worse than what you've come to see.
1:23:46I'm sure this episode will now give
1:23:49people more clarity as to what I'm
1:23:51trying to talk about.
1:23:53Same to do with the African Americans.
1:23:55Nothing is holding you back.
1:23:59You are what you are.
1:24:02Until you embrace that and breathe and
1:24:05say wow, how powerful
1:24:07this is. Then you can decide if there is
1:24:10any difference or anything you can do
1:24:13because you want to because to every
1:24:16engineered we can re-engineer for
1:24:19efficiency, right? For more. Yeah, even
1:24:22if it's just cosmetic. Everybody wants
1:24:24to give more to anything. So, but first
1:24:26you got to know
1:24:28this is what I am.
1:24:32>> Well, it's very insightful, Frank. I
1:24:34thought I had a I thought I was a bit
1:24:36closer.
1:24:37But
1:24:37>> [laughter]
1:24:38>> we'll do a quick reset and I'll I'll let
1:24:39you know.
1:24:40>> Thank you. I would love to continue with
1:24:42the conversation and we exchange notes
1:24:44on, you know, what we should and I don't
1:24:46know. I think you should publish it. Uh
1:24:49and let's see who would lay hands on it.
1:24:51You'll be surprised, man. There are
1:24:53people. However, let me point out one
1:24:55thing only. When you want to solve any
1:24:57problem, okay? Unless it's an immediate
1:25:00life or death problem, then you jump in
1:25:02and you save people.
1:25:04If we approach this and not look at the
1:25:06current people who are in Africa,
1:25:10but look at the next generations to
1:25:11come.
1:25:12That should be the way we should look at
1:25:14it. But if you want to say, "I want to
1:25:16change the place right now while I'm
1:25:18living and I want to see it, too." I go
1:25:20back next time my document is renewed in
1:25:221 hour, then you become frustrated. The
1:25:24Greeks didn't look at those who were
1:25:26current. They looked beyond. So also
1:25:28with the Romans and the Japanese. Think
1:25:31that what I'm saying today, what you are
1:25:32writing today, is you already designing
1:25:36the blueprint for the next generation.
1:25:39Then you'll be happy.
1:25:41Then you'll be encouraged. Well,
1:25:43Emmanuel, thank you so much. Yes. Yes.
1:25:47And on that, ladies and gentlemen, thank
1:25:49you so much. Uh Camilla, my team is
1:25:52preparing for the next live.
1:25:54The next live we are throwing this
1:25:56question out there. If you are
1:25:57interested, let us know.
1:26:00Does culture determine outcome?
1:26:03Zanu says, "Yes, most definitely." And
1:26:06if you think otherwise, you're crazy.
1:26:10Now, I'll leave it to you. Okay, so we
1:26:12are launching our Patreon because 70% of
1:26:14you says we should move the paid
1:26:16membership to Patreon. We're going to
1:26:17launch it, but we will let those who
1:26:20would remain on YouTube to get it.
1:26:22Please, subscribe, follow, share because
1:26:25that is the only way I can keep this
1:26:27going.
1:26:28Thank you very much for listening, and I
1:26:30will see you in the inside.

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