Edward Sturm's Ranking Trick, Hacking AI Overviews, Parasite SEO | E49 The Whitespark Local Update — Transcript

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1. 0:00Welcome to another episode of the
2. 0:01Whitespark Local Update podcast with me
3. 0:04Darren Shaw and with special guest
4. 0:06>> Edward Sturm. Hi everyone.
5. 0:08>> Edward Sturm, if you haven't seen him
6. 0:10around, that would be surprised because
7. 0:12he is one of the most prolific
8. 0:14podcasters in this space. He's been
9. 0:16making an episode every single day for I
10. 0:20don't know how long, Edward, how many
11. 0:21episodes are you up to now?
12. 0:22>> 1,177
13. 0:26days in a row.
14. 0:27>> That is insane. like he's he gets sick,
15. 0:30he's like in an airport, it doesn't
16. 0:32matter. He is making his podcast
17. 0:34episode. He has never stopped. He's on
18. 0:36all the social channels. So, you you
19. 0:38can't really avoid this guy. He's also
20. 0:41the founder of Compact Keywords, which
21. 0:44is a fantastic SEO course used by many
22. 0:47local SEOs that's focused on how to use
23. 0:49SEO to actually make money. Also, a very
24. 0:53experienced SEO, worked for some of the
25. 0:55biggest brands in the world. Anyways,
26. 0:56he's a guy. if he's not on your radar,
27. 0:58he will be after this episode. And uh
28. 1:01it's uh great to have you with us,
29. 1:02Edward.
30. 1:03>> Thank you so much. Thank you, Darren.
31. 1:05You know, you your uh first time on my
32. 1:08podcast is one of my most popular guest
33. 1:10episodes, too. You did this like local
34. 1:12SEO master class on on my podcast and
35. 1:15you you crushed it. It was so good. And
36. 1:18so, you know, hopefully I can hopefully
37. 1:20I can bring a fraction of the magic that
38. 1:23you brought to my podcast to your
39. 1:25podcast. Well, I know you will. And
40. 1:27actually, it's a big thank you to
41. 1:29actually join my podcast because I know
42. 1:32you you are always the host and never
43. 1:33the guest. So, like, how many times have
44. 1:36you been a guest on a podcast?
45. 1:37>> I used to do it. Before I had my own
46. 1:39podcast, it was very often. And then now
47. 1:41that I have my own podcast, because it's
48. 1:43every day, it's just I don't really do
49. 1:45it anymore. But, but you you you said,
50. 1:47"Let's talk about three super
51. 1:50interesting things in SEO." um that
52. 1:53things that that you've probably already
53. 1:55been talking about or that that you find
54. 1:56really fun. I'm like, man, I do this all
55. 1:58day long. Let's let's go. This is gonna
56. 2:00be so this g be so great.
57. 2:01>> Well, let me jump into it. I'll give my
58. 2:03first link. It'll set the tone for you
59. 2:05so you kind of know how I deliver these.
60. 2:07Uh and we'll go from there. So, my first
61. 2:10link that I want to talk about is from
62. 2:11Steve Toth. Gosh, ring the bell for
63. 2:14Steve Toth. I mention him so much on
64. 2:16this podcast.
65. 2:17>> He's been on my show, too.
66. 2:18>> He's just freaking brilliant. I'm sure
67. 2:20you talk about him all the time, too.
68. 2:22But, uh, he's basically hacked AI
69. 2:25overviews with LinkedIn hashtags. So,
70. 2:29uh, it's a really amazing little thing
71. 2:31that he discovered that if you make a
72. 2:34post on LinkedIn and you basically put
73. 2:38in the caption just these hashtags, then
74. 2:41it will surface in AI overviews really
75. 2:44quickly. And he in this post, he
76. 2:46outlines the process. So the first thing
77. 2:48you do is you need to pick a query where
78. 2:51Google already shows LinkedIn posts. So
79. 2:54some kind of query LinkedIn posts are
80. 2:55already showing up there. Now write the
81. 2:58query out as leading hashtags. Like his
82. 3:00example was how to rank YouTube videos
83. 3:04in chat GPT. So this is like a a prompt
84. 3:07that someone might type into Google and
85. 3:09an AI overview triggers. So you write it
86. 3:11as hashtag. So each word is a hashtag.
87. 3:14#how hashtag two how to hashtag rank. So
88. 3:19you write that and then you publish a
89. 3:21post on LinkedIn with that information.
90. 3:24And he said that I think it was like 10
91. 3:26minutes 10 minutes later he was the
92. 3:28number one AI overview result. And the
93. 3:30cool thing that happens here is that
94. 3:32when you write your actual caption,
95. 3:34LinkedIn system builds the URL slug from
96. 3:38the caption. And so that's kind of the
97. 3:41magic to making this work. So, it's a
98. 3:44little bit of way to like hack your way
99. 3:46into AI overviews. There'll be a link in
100. 3:50the show notes. You can see his process,
101. 3:52but uh really cool little hacky thing. I
102. 3:55always love hacky stuff. I'm a huge fan
103. 3:56of using LinkedIn for SEO. I I share it
104. 3:59also all the time. Yeah, it puts in the
105. 4:01page title, the URL slug, even the metad
106. 4:03description. It puts the the language at
107. 4:05the beginning of your post in the metad
108. 4:06description, too. Um, so it it's and it
109. 4:10LinkedIn has a domain authority of 99
110. 4:12out of 100. Like pretty much as like
111. 4:14high high as you can go. I'm just like
112. 4:16I'm I wonder and Steve Toth like he has
113. 4:19a really popular um LinkedIn account and
114. 4:22he always gets a ton of engagement so of
115. 4:25course his posts are going to do well. I
116. 4:27wonder um did he test between hashtags
117. 4:30and no hashtags?
118. 4:31>> But yeah, that's a good point. He does
119. 4:33have 71,000 followers on LinkedIn. So
120. 4:37maybe this hack works for him, but it
121. 4:39wouldn't work on a smaller account.
122. 4:41That's a good question.
123. 4:42>> If you post consistently and you see
124. 4:44that your posts on LinkedIn are getting
125. 4:46indexed, you can absolutely use it for
126. 4:48for SEO. It's so great, especially
127. 4:50undertargeted keywords where a lot of
128. 4:52other people aren't targeting them. It's
129. 4:54so great for that. But um I'm just I'm
130. 4:57just wondering about the h I've never
131. 4:58heard that hashtag thing like and maybe
132. 5:00there's some weird like um thing in
133. 5:02Google systems where like or the AI just
134. 5:05values the hashtags as as being like
135. 5:08more authentic. Like I'm not I don't
136. 5:10know. I'm trying to understand why the
137. 5:12hashtag versus no hashtag.
138. 5:14>> I think the hashtag is the key to the
139. 5:16getting the URL slug.
140. 5:18>> No.
141. 5:18>> No.
142. 5:19>> It's always the first couple words.
143. 5:21Yeah. So that's why I'm like wow
144. 5:22hashtags. Oh, it says LinkedIn stock
145. 5:25title generator grabs whatever leads the
146. 5:28post. It has no filter for hashtags. So
147. 5:31roughly the first seven words become
148. 5:33your URL URL slug. That's what he says.
149. 5:35So it doesn't matter if they're hashtags
150. 5:36or not. He just tends to do it that way.
151. 5:39And actually that's a good question. Why
152. 5:41hashtags? So, I took I man I was just
153. 5:43talking about this with Ross Hudgens
154. 5:45like uh an hour ago, but I took uh a
155. 5:48friend's LinkedIn account and he had no
156. 5:51engagement, no history of posting and we
157. 5:54wanted to target a really competitive
158. 5:56keyword in his space. Um and uh so we
159. 5:59said like his company is great for this
160. 6:03keyword because and then we listed these
161. 6:05reasons with bullet points. I think the
162. 6:07way that's how we that's how we wrote
163. 6:09it. I don't think Yeah. And so then
164. 6:10anyway, he like his post did not get
165. 6:13indexed. They were not getting indexed.
166. 6:14But then we took his LinkedIn post, we
167. 6:17did something black hat as a test and we
168. 6:19put it through the index exceptional
169. 6:21indexer with the instant tier um which
170. 6:25literally had it showing up number two
171. 6:27for this competitive keyword within 30
172. 6:30minutes of him making the post on
173. 6:32LinkedIn. 30 minutes. But but it it you
174. 6:36know it was gone the next day because
175. 6:37it's an it's an indexer and you
176. 6:39shouldn't use indexers on money sites
177. 6:41and social media accounts are pretty
178. 6:43much becoming money sites because social
179. 6:44media ranks so well. I I got to say that
180. 6:47because it is like indexers are can be
181. 6:50dangerous but like as a one-off
182. 6:51experiment.
183. 6:52>> Tell me more about this indexer but
184. 6:54maybe now just be more quiet about it
185. 6:56because it [laughter] sounds a little
186. 6:57sketch.
187. 6:58>> Yeah. Well, so a lot of what a lot of
188. 7:00people use indexers for is like let's
189. 7:02say you have like a you got a backlink
190. 7:04on a page that isn't going to get
191. 7:06indexed or like some niche blog that
192. 7:08isn't going to get indexed. And so like
193. 7:10if it's not if if Google's not seeing
194. 7:12the backlink, the backlink doesn't mean
195. 7:14anything. And so then people will use an
196. 7:16indexer on something like that just to
197. 7:18get the the backlink notice.
198. 7:19>> I've tried these indexers before and
199. 7:21they all seem like straight up crap,
200. 7:23like garbage.
201. 7:24>> I don't really use them, but my stuff
202. 7:25ranks. I could I just like
203. 7:27>> Oh yeah, [laughter]
204. 7:28>> you're so good. You don't need these
205. 7:29index.
206. 7:30>> No, but but but like a lot of people
207. 7:33still like to use them anyway. And I I
208. 7:35thought it was a interesting experiment.
209. 7:37Could we get a LinkedIn account with no
210. 7:40history of engagement that wasn't
211. 7:42getting indexed? Could we still
212. 7:44basically force index it? Right.
213. 7:45>> And we a good test. Yeah. And and um now
214. 7:49what you actually what people should be
215. 7:51doing is you should be taking your
216. 7:53LinkedIn posts that have the keywords at
217. 7:55the beginning of the post and then just
218. 7:58sharing it on social media, linking to
219. 8:00it with your own site. These are the
220. 8:02like the normal things.
221. 8:03>> You don't need an indexer. Exactly.
222. 8:05>> Yeah. All right, let's move on. What
223. 8:08What is your first link, Edward? What do
224. 8:10you want to talk about?
225. 8:11>> I have so many interesting things. So,
226. 8:13you know what? Let's I I was going to
227. 8:15save this one for last, but I think this
228. 8:17is a good example of these like
229. 8:19shortterm
230. 8:21hacks that aren't really worth investing
231. 8:24that much into like using indexers,
232. 8:27>> right?
233. 8:27>> I'm going to give credit to Charles
234. 8:29Float for discovering this um this trick
235. 8:32with parasite SEO on Notebook LM, which
236. 8:35is Google's Google's um own tool. Um so
237. 8:38Charles discovered this. Gog and Gotra
238. 8:40started talking about it and I made a
239. 8:42video on it and that video kind of blew
240. 8:43up and then literally Google fixed it.
241. 8:46Google fixed it like the like two days
242. 8:48later or the next day. It's crazy. So,
243. 8:52um and you and we Okay, so let's I'm
244. 8:54going to go all the way back to like
245. 8:56last year when this was happening with
246. 8:57chat GPT. People probably remember that
247. 8:59chat GPT shared conversations were
248. 9:02getting indexed
249. 9:04>> and you would click share and you know
250. 9:06chat GPD didn't know to set these to no
251. 9:10index. Um you're not supposed to block
252. 9:11them in robots.txt because that'll just
253. 9:14say like no information available. You
254. 9:16actually have to set the pages to no
255. 9:18index. Y
256. 9:19>> uh chatp didn't know this and so paras
257. 9:22like people were doing parasite SEO with
258. 9:24chachypt. Parasite SEO means to use
259. 9:26another site's really high authority and
260. 9:29prioritization within Google
261. 9:31>> LinkedIn thing really
262. 9:32>> just like LinkedIn. Yeah. So it's I
263. 9:33think the perfect jump off.
264. 9:35>> Um and and then you know Chachi BT fixed
265. 9:38it because it was it was bad for
266. 9:40privacy. Um people share conversations
267. 9:43were getting indexed and it was being
268. 9:45abused by SEO. Um and then a couple
269. 9:47months later the same exact thing
270. 9:50happened with clawed artifacts. And so
271. 9:52you could spin up a website with Claude
272. 9:55literally just as an artifact. It put
273. 9:58the keyword in the right places.
274. 9:59>> Yeah. And and and it was the same exact
275. 10:02thing that was happening. And these
276. 10:03artifacts were getting indexed were
277. 10:06ranking really well and it was happening
278. 10:08really fast. I tested this. I made an
279. 10:10episode about it. I got my content
280. 10:12ranking in like half a day for a good
281. 10:14keyword and and yeah, like it was and it
282. 10:17was crazy. It was crazy. Um and then
283. 10:20Claude fixed it. But what's really
284. 10:21interesting about that is because a lot
285. 10:25of these artifacts weren't they they
286. 10:27weren't getting crawled, a lot of them
287. 10:29actually still rank. So you can go to
288. 10:31like site um you can do a search site
289. 10:35colon um claude.ai
290. 10:38slpublic/artifacts.
291. 10:41I think that's the path.
292. 10:43>> Um and you'll still see a bunch of cloud
293. 10:45artifacts that are still ranking. Yeah.
294. 10:47That are still indexed from last year.
295. 10:49>> So yeah. So even though Claude did fix
296. 10:51it after that, but like there's still
297. 10:53now now so this is what's really
298. 10:55interesting about this Notebook LM thing
299. 10:57because Notebook LM is Google. So
300. 10:59Notebook LM because Google is such a big
301. 11:01company, you often see people in
302. 11:03different departments of Google telling
303. 11:06people to do things that are actually
304. 11:08against Google search guidelines.
305. 11:10Totally. So you you saw like um I forget
306. 11:12the I think it was like someone on the
307. 11:14Gemini team or it was some other Google
308. 11:16AI product saying, "Hey, use Google's AI
309. 11:19to make SEO pages. Use just [laughter]
310. 11:21generate like SEO pages. You can
311. 11:23generate SEO pages in bulk without
312. 11:25proofreading them." And somebody on one
313. 11:27of Google's product teams said that
314. 11:28because they don't know the rules of
315. 11:30Google search because it's such a big
316. 11:31company. And so Notebook LM, another
317. 11:33part of Google, they don't know the
318. 11:35rules. They don't know how SEO works.
319. 11:37And so Notebook LM artifacts were
320. 11:40getting indexed in Google and you could
321. 11:42you could create an artifact, you could
322. 11:44put your keyword in the right places and
323. 11:46and so you would do site notebook
324. 11:50uh.google.com/notebook
325. 11:52and you'd see all these notebook LM
326. 11:55artifacts that were getting indexed. And
327. 11:58so Charles Float found this out and he
328. 11:59shared it. Um he shared it in his
329. 12:01community and was going viral and then
330. 12:03it somebody else shared it started to go
331. 12:05viral from that and then I shared it and
332. 12:08now
333. 12:09>> a day after I shared it or two days
334. 12:11after I shared it you do you do site
335. 12:14notebook.google.com google.com it's
336. 12:17empty completely empty which is very
337. 12:19different from what what happened with
338. 12:21claude
339. 12:22>> nothing there completely and so it's a
340. 12:25good example of like um you know people
341. 12:28are so obsessed and I think this is
342. 12:30something that you and I have in common
343. 12:32people are so obsessed with these
344. 12:34shortcuts they're always so fun to find
345. 12:36when they work
346. 12:37>> they're fun to find and they go viral
347. 12:39when we talk about them but like the
348. 12:41best SEO is fundamentals yeah the best
349. 12:44SEO is long-term miss the fundamentals.
350. 12:46And this is a good this is a good
351. 12:48example of that because it's like
352. 12:50imagine that you spent the last week
353. 12:53going hard with like notebook LM
354. 12:55parasite SEO and now it's just gone. You
355. 12:57have better things to do with your time.
356. 12:58>> Yeah. Don't
357. 13:00>> just don't. Unless you're like us and
358. 13:02you're just obsessed with like
359. 13:03tinkering. Like if you're if you're like
360. 13:04a mad scientist SEO, yeah, have fun. But
361. 13:08don't do this on your sites long term.
362. 13:10To be fair, to be fair, um Charles said
363. 13:13like some people were do making like 10
364. 13:14grand a day doing it, but
365. 13:16>> that's a different world, right? Those
366. 13:17are these like freaking casino and like
367. 13:20pharmacy people.
368. 13:21>> It's a lot harder to have that breakout
369. 13:24success with a shortterm SEO hack than
370. 13:28it is to just be successful with a
371. 13:30long-term approach doing holistic white
372. 13:33hat SEO. Like if you do that holistic
373. 13:35white hat SEO with a long-term approach,
374. 13:38you're way more guaranteed to be
375. 13:39successful.
376. 13:40>> Particularly in local too, which is the,
377. 13:42you know, most of the people listening
378. 13:44to this podcast are thinking about local
379. 13:45search for small businesses, local
380. 13:47businesses or, you know, enterprise
381. 13:49local business. You're not going to mess
382. 13:50around on those sites. You're not doing
383. 13:52the churn and burn SEO. But gosh, is it
384. 13:55fun to talk about turn and burn SEO.
385. 13:57>> It's so much fun to talk about.
386. 13:58>> We love it.
387. 13:59>> Yeah.
388. 13:59>> All right. My next link is uh this is
389. 14:02very interesting topic to me. I've been
390. 14:04thinking quite a bit about this as a as
391. 14:06a uh business who runs rank tracking
392. 14:09software. I will remind everybody that
393. 14:11the Weisspark local ranking grids is the
394. 14:14greatest local ranking grid software on
395. 14:15the market. You should definitely
396. 14:16>> go use it. Go use it.
397. 14:18>> Should definitely check it out as a free
398. 14:20trial. Um but you know certainly in this
399. 14:23world
400. 14:24everyone's talking about AI visibility
401. 14:27tracking. You've got companies like
402. 14:29Profound and Peak and Gumshoe that are,
403. 14:32you know, they're they're software
404. 14:33systems that are designed to track AI
405. 14:36visibility and then give you some kind
406. 14:38of report. How are you doing in AI
407. 14:39search? And, you know, certainly as an
408. 14:41agency, we're thinking of that, too.
409. 14:43We've got to track this for our clients.
410. 14:44And so, Ran Fishkin did an interesting
411. 14:47post on LinkedIn where he said basically
412. 14:50it's [laughter]
413. 14:52That's what he thinks. He thinks that
414. 14:54all of AI visibility tracking is pretty
415. 14:57pretty sketch b business here. So he
416. 15:00gives five reasons why he's so skeptical
417. 15:03of the entire AI tracking industry.
418. 15:05Number one, we know that AIs give
419. 15:07different answers every time they ask
420. 15:09you're asked a question. Number two,
421. 15:11there's no source of truth about prompt
422. 15:13volume. We don't know how how many times
423. 15:15are people searching that. We know that
424. 15:17every past interaction changes an AI
425. 15:20response. So, like as you as you
426. 15:22personally use an AI, your results are
427. 15:25very based off of whatever you've said
428. 15:27to the AI in the past. Anything slash
429. 15:30anyone claiming to measure influence
430. 15:32through URL citations has to prove that
431. 15:35the models are actually using those
432. 15:37citations to power the response and not
433. 15:39just ad hoc rationalization.
434. 15:41Uh, and number five, there's no audit
435. 15:43trail. There's no way to prove that a
436. 15:45particular prompt recommended a brand.
437. 15:47And so this is his like he's like
438. 15:51how do we build how are we building an
439. 15:53entire industry around that? Obviously
440. 15:55Rand comes from Moz and they built SEO
441. 15:57software. So I thought that was a very
442. 16:00compelling post.
443. 16:03Just this morning, three hours ago,
444. 16:05Glenn Alop has posted uh his new
445. 16:08research. I analyze 70,000 AI responses
446. 16:12over four weeks to see how often the
447. 16:15same brands are named for the same
448. 16:18prompts. So, he's generated 70,000
449. 16:22prompts. Well, I don't know how many
450. 16:23prompts there are, but he ran them daily
451. 16:25for four weeks to collect all of this
452. 16:28data. And he's analyzing AI volatility,
453. 16:32and he's inspired by Rand's push back on
454. 16:35the whole industry. And he says in his
455. 16:38LinkedIn post, a few highlights. The
456. 16:40core of a response barely moves. Those
457. 16:42core brands that get returned for
458. 16:44various prompts, they tend to be the
459. 16:47same brand. It doesn't matter what model
460. 16:48you're using. It doesn't matter uh how
461. 16:50often you're searching it. It's not some
462. 16:53totally random thing. The major brands
463. 16:57tend to be returned quite frequently.
464. 17:00You can actually measure that. Are you
465. 17:02one of those or you're not one of those?
466. 17:03He says that the tail turns over daily.
467. 17:06So you think of head head brands and
468. 17:08tail brands. It's like, you know, like
469. 17:10the top two that are always recommended
470. 17:12are kind of always in there and then the
471. 17:14stuff the other recommendations tend to
472. 17:16fluctuate a lot. Personally, as an SEO,
473. 17:18I kind of think that's a nice model. In
474. 17:20traditional SEO, if you don't rank, you
475. 17:23don't have a chance. In AI SEO, well, it
476. 17:27is a probabilistic system. So, you at
477. 17:29least have a chance of getting your
478. 17:31brand thrown in there once in a while,
479. 17:33even though the incumbents tend to
480. 17:35dominate. Uh, you know, if you're a new
481. 17:37player, at least you get you get some
482. 17:40references and mentions on these AI
483. 17:42platforms. But anyways, this is a very
484. 17:44interesting topic. I think it's worth
485. 17:46looking at uh Ran's post. It's
486. 17:48definitely worth looking at Glenn's
487. 17:50research that he just published a few
488. 17:51hours ago. He's got a full article that
489. 17:53he links to and so, you know, we're
490. 17:57still, this is a brand new industry.
491. 17:59We're still figuring it out, but it does
492. 18:00look like there is value in tracking in
493. 18:03my opinion. What do you think, Edward?
494. 18:05>> Dude, I saw I saw Rand's post last
495. 18:08night. I commented on it and he liked
496. 18:09it. I said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." I said I
497. 18:11said, "Thank you for saying this because
498. 18:12not enough people are saying that."
499. 18:14>> I know. Yeah. It It's It is a sketch
500. 18:15industry for sure. I I was grateful that
501. 18:18he actually went on a limb to say that
502. 18:20because not a lot of other pe not a lot
503. 18:22of other SEOs will put themselves in
504. 18:24that position to make a statement like
505. 18:26that.
506. 18:26>> Yeah.
507. 18:27>> Um only Rand and uh yeah I'm grateful
508. 18:29for Rand. Uh and so Glenn Alop's
509. 18:33research that's really interesting. I
510. 18:34have not seen that and now I I'm like I
511. 18:36want to look at this and make content on
512. 18:38it because that sounds really cool. In
513. 18:39fact, I'm going to look at it after
514. 18:41this. Um, the one thing that stuck out
515. 18:43to me was you said it will be like uh
516. 18:46it'll be like a very small handful of
517. 18:49brands that are always cited and then
518. 18:50the rest are kind of changing a lot and
519. 18:53what I think is happening there the
520. 18:55biggest brands are in the training data
521. 18:57>> and then the smaller brand and and so um
522. 19:01it's a combination of the LLM will go
523. 19:05and do a search in a search engine to
524. 19:08gather the information but then it also
525. 19:10has the information that it knows in its
526. 19:12training data which are those big brands
527. 19:14and like an easy example is like um is
528. 19:18like SEO. So I I yeah actually I I
529. 19:21shared this example with Ross Hutchkins
530. 19:2390 minutes ago too and I found that if I
531. 19:26make videos about viral post if I if I
532. 19:30take a viral post in my niche on X and I
533. 19:33just read it on video it'll go viral
534. 19:35again because the audience on Instagram
535. 19:38is different from the audience on X and
536. 19:40like I I do this all the time you like
537. 19:42you've probably seen me content my
538. 19:44content sharing yeah um and it and works
539. 19:46really it works like a lot and you I'm
540. 19:49crediting the I'm crediting the people
541. 19:50of course, but like it's crazy how well
542. 19:53it works. And so I set up an auto I set
543. 19:55up a skill within Grock, which has
544. 19:57access to X
545. 19:59>> to find posts that get more likes than
546. 20:03the account has followers. That's a good
547. 20:04sign. If the post has a lot more likes,
548. 20:06then you know it's viral because it's
549. 20:09being broadcasted way further than their
550. 20:11audience. Yeah.
551. 20:12>> Yes. in my niche and or or it's a post
552. 20:16that will do above average for that
553. 20:18account because because like somebody
554. 20:19like you, you have a lot of followers
555. 20:21and so it it's a lot harder for you to
556. 20:23have something that's going to have like
557. 20:25way more views than your amount of
558. 20:27followers. So it has to be Yeah. So it's
559. 20:29it's then the alternative is like
560. 20:31relative to the post to the accounts
561. 20:33average. So it's a skill with Grock and
562. 20:36an automation that runs every morning at
563. 20:388 a.m. and I get those posts in my inbox
564. 20:40every morning at 8 a.m. It's amazing.
565. 20:42works really well. I've been going way
566. 20:44more viral over the last couple of
567. 20:46months. It's It works crazy. It's It's
568. 20:48insane.
569. 20:49>> I'm just going to make videos about your
570. 20:51video of you sharing someone else's
571. 20:52thing. [laughter]
572. 20:54>> You could because it works really well.
573. 20:56But now, let me tell you um about the
574. 20:58training data part. So then I had this
575. 21:01thought, what if I I had this theory,
576. 21:04what if like the super viral posts um
577. 21:08within this the niche is also more
578. 21:11likely to get indexed um and and to to
579. 21:14actually rank well.
580. 21:17So then I set up an automation within
581. 21:20Gemini to find the with pretty much like
582. 21:23the same the same prompt, you know, look
583. 21:26for these types of posts, these standout
584. 21:28breakout exposts in my niche.
585. 21:31>> And um so the the skill and the
586. 21:34automation worked perfectly on Grock.
587. 21:36It's great. It's great how well it
588. 21:38works. Gemini on the other hand
589. 21:41hallucinated every single post that it
590. 21:44gave me and it was all from the biggest
591. 21:47names in SEO and it was very convincing.
592. 21:50So it was it gave me a post from Lily
593. 21:52Ray. It gave me a post from a lady. It
594. 21:55gave me a post from Ran Fishkin and it g
595. 21:58gave me the URL slugs. It gave me the
596. 22:00the full URL paths like the full URLs
597. 22:02and I could click on them. What happened
598. 22:03was I started clicking on these URLs
599. 22:05that it gave me and I see 404 and then I
600. 22:07click on another one 404. Oh, here's a
601. 22:09one from Cyrus. Uh 404. Why are these
602. 22:12all 404ing? Let me try taking the exact
603. 22:16post that chat GBT gave me and then
604. 22:18putting it just into Google to see if it
605. 22:20shows up. No, Google doesn't have that.
606. 22:22And then I actually started to read the
607. 22:24posts and it was very generic like
608. 22:26basically AI really
609. 22:27>> like there's no way Lily wrote this.
610. 22:29Yeah.
611. 22:29>> Yeah. Lily. And so what what it did is
612. 22:32it hallucinated it hallucinated
613. 22:35the biggest people in SEO that are in
614. 22:37its training data already,
615. 22:39>> right?
616. 22:40>> And and hallucinated
617. 22:42what the like what it thought that these
618. 22:45people would say. And every single post
619. 22:49that it returned to me was completely
620. 22:52fictitious, completely made up. The URLs
621. 22:54were made up. Everything was made up.
622. 22:57Now, I have not looked at Glenn's
623. 22:59research and I want to look at Glenn's
624. 23:00research, but what it sounds like to me
625. 23:02is that yeah, it's those big brands
626. 23:05because the big brands are all over the
627. 23:07place. The big brands are part of the
628. 23:08culture. People are writing about them
629. 23:10naturally.
630. 23:11>> Salesforce, HubSpot, you all you've
631. 23:13heard of these, right?
632. 23:14>> Yeah.
633. 23:14>> Exactly. And then and then the rest of
634. 23:16them are being discovered from people
635. 23:19who know how to get into large language
636. 23:21models through AISO. Yeah,
637. 23:24>> that's my take.
638. 23:24>> Uh that's a good take. I think you're
639. 23:26right. I think there's the incumbents
640. 23:28who are in the training data and then I
641. 23:31it's a little bit of rag process that
642. 23:32comes in after. I also wanted to comment
643. 23:34on the Gemini thing. Freaking Gemini,
644. 23:36we're finding the same problem. It's
645. 23:38just not great. Like we've kind of like
646. 23:39we have it for free in our Google
647. 23:41workspace but across the company it's
648. 23:43like it's just annoying. it's always
649. 23:45messing stuff up and we've kind of given
650. 23:47up on it and so finally just got team
651. 23:50account for the entire company at
652. 23:52Whitespark on Claude and so now you know
653. 23:55Claude is doing a good job and we're
654. 23:56like thanks Claude Gemini sucked which
655. 23:58is weird because I have always been
656. 24:00preaching that I think Google will win
657. 24:03the AI stuff right because Google is
658. 24:06just so huge and it's like good enough
659. 24:08it's like ah well I'm not going to pay
660. 24:09for this other thing I have Google but
661. 24:12honestly like it's not good enough. It's
662. 24:15really not good. And it's like I I'm
663. 24:18kind of surprised that they don't get
664. 24:20better at it, but like I one would
665. 24:22assume they're working on it, but
666. 24:23>> I had Gary Vaynerchuk on my podcast a
667. 24:25few months ago and and
668. 24:28>> yeah, no, I'm not I'm not kidding. Yeah,
669. 24:30it was a great it's a great episode and
670. 24:32and he's like, "Yeah, Gemini is going to
671. 24:33win the AI race." And we kind of both
672. 24:35agreed because Gemini has YouTube, it
673. 24:38has it has calendar, it has mail, it has
674. 24:41everything. But but like I was using it
675. 24:43last night cuz I I used Chat GPT to help
676. 24:46come up with questions for people. And
677. 24:47so I was using it to help come up with
678. 24:49questions for Ross Hutchkins of Siege
679. 24:52Media. And all of Gemini's questions
680. 24:54were garbage. And I just I'm like, "No,
681. 24:57not going to do it." And I just used
682. 24:58Chachi PT and um and my own thoughts and
683. 25:02it was way better. Yeah. And my own
684. 25:04thoughts. Good job. You pulled some of
685. 25:06your own thoughts in the thing right
686. 25:07here. The thing right there. [laughter]
687. 25:08But but no, but like Gemini's output,
688. 25:10despite it having the best information,
689. 25:14the best in input,
690. 25:16>> its output is very bad.
691. 25:17>> I know. I still think they're going to
692. 25:18win. They're going to win the AI race.
693. 25:20>> They they very they very well may, but
694. 25:22right now it's not it's not great.
695. 25:23>> Yeah, totally. All right, let's move on
696. 25:25to another like it that was we're we're
697. 25:28going so slow today, but you it's so fun
698. 25:30to talk to you. We're just going to have
699. 25:31a nice long episode and it's going to be
700. 25:33totally cool.
701. 25:33>> I thought this was going to be a short
702. 25:35episode, too, and I'm just like no, I I
703. 25:37I'm having fun. I'm having fun as well
704. 25:38to talk about.
705. 25:39>> I'm having fun as well.
706. 25:41>> That's why I have a daily show cuz I
707. 25:43like doing this. Like I like I like
708. 25:45having these convos. All right. So, next
709. 25:47one is there's this really fun
710. 25:49competition in SEO called uh the king of
711. 25:52AEO competition. It started with James
712. 25:55Douly who's a super well-known uh SEO.
713. 25:59He's like a businessman and an SEO and
714. 26:01he uses SEO to make to to make a lot of
715. 26:04money. And he yeah he uses SEO for
716. 26:07business what people should be using SEO
717. 26:08for.
718. 26:08>> Sure.
719. 26:09>> Um and so he said to me he's like you
720. 26:12know people are ranking for king of SEO
721. 26:16and like and queen of SEO and all this
722. 26:18stuff. And he's like I want to rank for
723. 26:20king of AEO. Answer engine optimization.
724. 26:23Answer engine optimization means to
725. 26:24influence large language models um to
726. 26:27get into chatt to get into cloud to get
727. 26:28into a reviews. And so he said I want to
728. 26:31rank number one for king of AEO.
729. 26:33something that nobody no one had had
730. 26:35been targeting King of AO. There was
731. 26:36nothing on the internet for King of Ao.
732. 26:38>> Okay.
733. 26:38>> Um so him and Jasper Nissan, another
734. 26:42well-known uh SEO, they bought press
735. 26:45releases. He got a $6 press release from
736. 26:48AB Newswire. Jesper Nissan got an uh a
737. 26:51$66 press release from EIN. PressWire or
738. 26:55Newswire, I don't remember the name of
739. 26:56it, from EIN. Um and they both called
740. 26:59James Douly the king of AEO. And within
741. 27:02a couple of hours, because King of AO
742. 27:05was in the press release title, the
743. 27:07subheading and the first sentence um of
744. 27:09these press releases, within a couple of
745. 27:12hours, the AI overview when you searched
746. 27:15who is the king of AEO was confidently
747. 27:17saying James Douly is the king of AEO.
748. 27:19And and Jesper Nissan wrote about this
749. 27:22big crowning event at like a major
750. 27:25stadium in England. And the AI overview
751. 27:28said that there was this crowding event
752. 27:30at this major stadium, like as if it
753. 27:33actually happened. It was completely
754. 27:34made up,
755. 27:35>> of course. And yeah, and so then I I
756. 27:38made a video about this and my videos,
757. 27:40you know, my videos come out to
758. 27:42Instagram, to Tik Tok, to LinkedIn, to
759. 27:46Facebook reels, and to YouTube shorts.
760. 27:48>> Yeah.
761. 27:48>> And um what I do because my videos rank
762. 27:52really well, my short form videos, all
763. 27:54my videos rank really well, but short
764. 27:55form too. And what I do is I just take
765. 27:58the transcript from from the video and
766. 27:59use it as as the description for all of
767. 28:01my videos.
768. 28:02>> When I made this video, two things
769. 28:04happened. Or maybe it was like um maybe
770. 28:06it was it was three things happened. Um
771. 28:10yeah, it was three three things
772. 28:12happened. Okay. The first thing is my
773. 28:14video started my short form video
774. 28:16started showing up for King of AEO. Um,
775. 28:19and and number two, was the AI overview
776. 28:22actually changed to reflect that King of
777. 28:25AEO is quote unquote playful and an
778. 28:28experiment because it saw it read what
779. 28:31was in the description for my videos.
780. 28:34Now my Yeah, because now my short form
781. 28:36video is influencing that AI overview
782. 28:38and the AI overview changed. And then
783. 28:41the third thing that happened is I get a
784. 28:43lot of views. A lot of o other SEOs saw
785. 28:46this and a lot of other SEOs joined the
786. 28:48competition trying to get the AI
787. 28:50overview to call them king of AEO. And
788. 28:53so this crazy competition now just broke
789. 28:56out. First it was just James Douly and
790. 28:58and all of a sudden all these other SEOs
791. 29:01all across the internet are doing these
792. 29:03wild SEO tactics trying to rank above
793. 29:06James trying to get the AI overview to
794. 29:08name them the king of SEO rather than
795. 29:11James Julian. All these different things
796. 29:12are being t tried. There's this SEO
797. 29:15named Vithers. He started by also
798. 29:17getting a $6 press release on AB
799. 29:19Newswire making up the reasons six.
800. 29:22Yeah. Well, so AB Newswire for 500 bucks
801. 29:25for a year, you get 83 press releases
802. 29:27and that comes down to $6. If you want
803. 29:29to get a oneoff, it's 80 bucks. EIN
804. 29:31Presswire, if you want to get a oneoff,
805. 29:33it's like 150. But if you buy the like
806. 29:36annual package, then you get it. It
807. 29:38comes down to 66. And
808. 29:40>> sure,
809. 29:40>> EIN um PressWire will those press
810. 29:43releases will last longer than AB
811. 29:46Newswe, but AB Newswe bucks if you do do
812. 29:49the 500. And and they and they rank they
813. 29:51rank real well.
814. 29:52>> They get into USA Today. Those press
815. 29:54releases are syndicated to USA Today.
816. 29:56Yeah. For six for this crazy cheap. So
817. 29:59Vithers, he got one of these cheap press
818. 30:02releases um and and and
819. 30:05put the same thing out and then that
820. 30:06press release was working really well
821. 30:08and then he created like 15 exact match
822. 30:12domains with like king of s all AI all
823. 30:16AI websites king of AEO vithers.com king
824. 30:19of AEO.org AEO king vither.com
825. 30:23who is king of AEO.com and and every
826. 30:27page had king of AEO every homepage had
827. 30:29king of AEO and vithers in the page
828. 30:31title the H1 and the first sentence and
829. 30:33you saw you saw those ranking people
830. 30:36started using YouTube because like the
831. 30:38other people came in started doing video
832. 30:40so David Quaid a really well-known SEO
833. 30:43he made an AI video of him being crowned
834. 30:46he has this like very smug smile on his
835. 30:48face and there's like this
836. 30:50other guy, this old man crowning him
837. 30:52with an AEO crown and he's smiling and
838. 30:55he's like, "Let's optimize the future."
839. 30:57And the video is called, "Who is the
840. 30:59real king of AEO?" [laughter]
841. 31:01>> And James, then James Douly made a
842. 31:03podcast episode, AEO King. James Douly
843. 31:06crowned king of AEO, where in the
844. 31:08transcript he gets his co-host to say,
845. 31:10"James Douly, you are the king of AEO."
846. 31:13And that's right at the beginning of the
847. 31:14video because
848. 31:15>> of course,
849. 31:16>> AI overviews is Google transcripts are
850. 31:18being read. And of course, the
851. 31:20description of the YouTube videos are
852. 31:22being optimized for king of AEO.
853. 31:24>> Yeah.
854. 31:24>> LinkedIn. David Quaid had a LinkedIn
855. 31:27Pulse article. Who is the king of AEO?
856. 31:29>> All of this.
857. 31:30>> It's crazy. And so David Quaid then this
858. 31:33is what we were talking about before
859. 31:34where you take your posts and you share
860. 31:36them in all these different places. So
861. 31:38David put up this LinkedIn pulse
862. 31:40article, who is the king of AEO? But
863. 31:42then he's also linking to his YouTube
864. 31:44video um that that I just mentioned, the
865. 31:46AI YouTube video. He's also linking to a
866. 31:48king of AEO page on his website because
867. 31:51he just created a king of AEO page on
868. 31:53his website and then internal link to
869. 31:55it. Um and so so people are doing that.
870. 31:58People are using Reddit. If you search
871. 32:00site reddit.com space king of AEO, you
872. 32:05will see so many different Reddit posts
873. 32:07confidently stating that soandso SEO is
874. 32:10the king of AEO.
875. 32:11>> Uh all the posts they'll use images. So,
876. 32:14so people are making like fun images of
877. 32:16them in like um wearing a crown and
878. 32:19robes and they're all showing up in
879. 32:22Google images thumbnails, press release
880. 32:24images. They're all they're all there.
881. 32:26Um now the interesting thing the really
882. 32:29interesting thing is with chat GPT if
883. 32:32you ask who is the king of AEO chatpt
884. 32:34will say that it's James Douly who
885. 32:36started this and it is Vithers who also
886. 32:38went who went super hard with the exact
887. 32:40match domains uh and and other stuff. So
888. 32:45chat GPT will actually get it right
889. 32:47because I guess it's using king of AEO
890. 32:49in its query fan out
891. 32:51>> Claude when I asked who is king of
892. 32:54Claude Claude actually it it said the
893. 32:57people in its training data um the big
894. 33:00people that we talked about and the
895. 33:01reason for that is you can see what
896. 33:03Claude searched. Claude did not search
897. 33:05who was the king of AEO when you ask
898. 33:07when you do the prompt who was the king
899. 33:09of AEO. Claude actually searched answer
900. 33:12engine optimization AEO leading experts
901. 33:142026. And so to be named king of AEO
902. 33:18with Claude, you have to target a
903. 33:20different query. This competition is
904. 33:22really interesting because it shows
905. 33:23things that actually work things that
906. 33:25are like worth doing and then things
907. 33:27maybe that is worth staying away from.
908. 33:28It teaches people to not believe
909. 33:31everything that they read in an AI
910. 33:33overview and or an LLM. It's it's a
911. 33:36million crazy tactics that you can see
912. 33:38that are working right now that are
913. 33:40working really fast and it's hilarious.
914. 33:43And so I love this I love this
915. 33:44competition going on. I love SEO
916. 33:46competitions. It reminds me of there was
917. 33:48this time uh years and years ago I think
918. 33:52it's I think it was Kyle Roof. Kyle Roof
919. 33:54became famous because he won an SEO
920. 33:56competition for ranking a a web page for
921. 34:02rhinoplasty Plano, Texas.
922. 34:05You remember this case study? The
923. 34:07amazing thing is that he did it with a
924. 34:10web page that only had Lauram Ipsum text
925. 34:13on it. It didn't It wasn't even a real
926. 34:15web page. And he freaking won the
927. 34:17competition with this one web page. And
928. 34:19he just basically like showed the world
929. 34:23that Google doesn't really care about
930. 34:25content. It only cares like are your
931. 34:27keywords in the right place at the right
932. 34:29time and at the right frequency. And so
933. 34:31that was a crazy SEO test
934. 34:32>> and backlinks as well. like what are the
935. 34:34what are other people saying about these
936. 34:36websites? Yeah.
937. 34:37>> So, he had everything kind of in place,
938. 34:39but like the actual text of the page
939. 34:41didn't matter. I just think it does more
940. 34:43now. That was a long time ago. But it is
941. 34:46interesting to think about this test.
942. 34:48And the thing about this test is yes,
943. 34:50it's a bunch of AEO SEO bros hack trying
944. 34:54to hack the system, right? But there's
945. 34:56so much to learn from how they're doing
946. 34:58it. What are they doing? How do they do
947. 35:00that? How do we actually take those
948. 35:02strategies and apply them in a real way
949. 35:05in a real business? I think that there's
950. 35:07just so much value to be learned by, you
951. 35:10know, going from the playful hackiness
952. 35:12of SEO and actually turning into real
953. 35:14world strategies. Yes, you should be
954. 35:16posting on Reddit. Yes, you need to be
955. 35:18having a LinkedIn strategy. 1,00% of
956. 35:20your business doesn't have a YouTube
957. 35:22channel. What are you doing? Get on it.
958. 35:24You need to be doing these things. This
959. 35:26is the way modern SEO works. And so
960. 35:29these kinds of competitions shows you
961. 35:31how modern SEO works and it's just
962. 35:33really fascinating to watch this stuff
963. 35:35>> and to say there were there are
964. 35:37consistencies between all these tactics.
965. 35:39So with all of these pages, if it's not
966. 35:41like a video, all these pages, they do
967. 35:43have king of AEO in the page title, the
968. 35:46URL slug, the H1 beginning of the first
969. 35:49sentence,
970. 35:49>> of course. Yeah, it's the fundamentals
971. 35:51are still there. You got to do them.
972. 35:53These guys know what they're doing.
973. 35:54Obviously, they are real like noticeable
974. 35:56experts, right? We know these people. So
975. 35:58then for video, king of AEO is in the
976. 36:01video title and the beginning of the
977. 36:03video description.
978. 36:05>> Um, and they they write in a way that's
979. 36:08very clear for that's very easy for an
980. 36:11AI overview or even a searcher to pick
981. 36:13out. When you see something that says
982. 36:16James Douly is the king of AO, it's
983. 36:18unmistakable who like it's it makes it
984. 36:21really easy. And then they'll then
985. 36:23they'll give some reasons. Oh, um, James
986. 36:25Douly that someone else will say James
987. 36:27Douly is no longer the king of AO. It's
988. 36:29actually Vithers now, but it's still
989. 36:32being written in a way that's very
990. 36:35straightforward and clear and search
991. 36:37intent is always being addressed
992. 36:39>> paragraph
993. 36:40words. Yep. Totally.
994. 36:42>> And it's not it's not brain science. I
995. 36:43think like SEO still has this reputation
996. 36:46of like we come in there and we do this
997. 36:48like magic sauce that no one can
998. 36:50understand.
999. 36:50>> Got to sprinkle the keywords in the
1000. 36:52magic way in the right way. But it's but
1001. 36:54no but it's like but it's honestly it's
1002. 36:56all straight so straightforward
1003. 36:58>> if you know it.
1004. 36:59>> If you know it and that's yeah I think a
1005. 37:01lot of people don't even know what a
1006. 37:02keyword is. But if you understand what a
1007. 37:04keyword is and you understand okay
1008. 37:06there's a page title field there's URL
1009. 37:08slug H1 beginning the first sentence and
1010. 37:11then and then how do who is searching
1011. 37:12this keyword let's think about who's
1012. 37:14actually behind the search. Maybe we
1013. 37:16could do some research on what other
1014. 37:17people in the industry are saying. What
1015. 37:19do they care about? Let's put that into
1016. 37:21the page too. So, we're speaking to the
1017. 37:22searcher. And I think the problem, a
1018. 37:25huge problem is that a lot of SEOs don't
1019. 37:28they don't believe that it is as
1020. 37:30straightforward as it is.
1021. 37:32>> Yeah. They think it's there's some magic
1022. 37:34thing and they're they're hoping that
1023. 37:35the latest LinkedIn post that they read
1024. 37:38will be the secret to them actually
1025. 37:40breaking out, but they're missing some
1026. 37:41of the fundamentals.
1027. 37:42>> They hope by like by putting in all the
1028. 37:45schema, for example, they're going to
1029. 37:46like suddenly have cracked like the
1030. 37:48magic code. Yeah. like [laughter]
1031. 37:51>> but that's but that's but that's like
1032. 37:52that's what a lot of that's what a lot
1033. 37:54of SEOs still think they think it's like
1034. 37:55crazy and don't get me wrong there's
1035. 37:57lots of aspects about SEO that's that
1036. 37:59are technical it's like server side
1037. 38:01rendering is really is still important
1038. 38:03there's all these other there's all
1039. 38:04these aspects like understanding how to
1040. 38:06use Screaming Frog if you've never used
1041. 38:07Screaming Frog before can be very
1042. 38:09daunting and scary it's a massive world
1043. 38:11there's so much to learn and know well
1044. 38:13you have a link in so it'll be in the
1045. 38:15show notes to your post on this so you
1046. 38:18actually wrote it all Now what I'm going
1047. 38:19to do, I'm going to actually take your
1048. 38:21post. I'm going to feed it to Claude and
1049. 38:23I'm going to say translate all of these
1050. 38:25tactics. I want you to turn this into an
1051. 38:28actual real world strategy of important
1052. 38:31things that a business needs to do. I
1053. 38:33think that's a good uh thing. I won't
1054. 38:35use Gemini because I think it'll just
1055. 38:36make a bunch of crap, but I will use
1056. 38:38Claude and uh ideally it will give me uh
1057. 38:43some real strategy because this is
1058. 38:45actually really cool stuff. You can take
1059. 38:47some of this crazy stuff that's
1060. 38:48happening in fun experiments like this
1061. 38:50and turn them into real actual work that
1062. 38:53will help businesses. All right. Wow,
1063. 38:55that was a good one. Uh, my next post is
1064. 38:58from Miriam Jester and good news
1065. 39:00everybody, this is a short one, so I'm
1066. 39:02going to do it fast. So, she she gives a
1067. 39:05tip on how you can check to see if your
1068. 39:09content is indexed in uh chatgpt. So,
1069. 39:14all you got to do is you have your web
1070. 39:16page and you're like, "Does Chad GPT
1071. 39:18know about this web page?" Copy a 20 to
1072. 39:2230word
1073. 39:23sentence right out of your page and put
1074. 39:26it into chat GBT and just say with the
1075. 39:28prompt or Gemini or Claude say search
1076. 39:31for and then in quotes
1077. 39:33snippet and return any results which
1078. 39:36contain that exact text only. If it
1079. 39:39returns you a URL, now you know that
1080. 39:42cloud, Gemini, ChaBt are aware of your
1081. 39:45URL. If it doesn't, then now you know
1082. 39:49that the AI do not know about that page.
1083. 39:52Very interesting way to check for we'll
1084. 39:54call it, you know, AI indexation. So, I
1085. 39:57thought it was a great tip. And then she
1086. 39:59also highlights uh Chris Green has a
1087. 40:02nifty Chrome extension which apparently
1088. 40:04does this for you. So, check that out.
1089. 40:07It's a really good post. Okay,
1090. 40:08>> look, you have no response. Great. Let's
1091. 40:10go.
1092. 40:10>> No, I I mean I mean um look, you can see
1093. 40:12you can see the query fan outs in chat.
1094. 40:15So, you can actually see what catch
1095. 40:16searched. It's like right click inspect,
1096. 40:18copy the the part of the URL that comes
1097. 40:21after forward slash C, put it into the
1098. 40:22filter, go to the go click the network
1099. 40:25tab, put into the filter, refresh the
1100. 40:27page,
1101. 40:28>> um click on the orange brackets with the
1102. 40:31I in the middle, go to the response tab,
1103. 40:34search the response tabs. Yeah, because
1104. 40:35I've shared a lot. search response tab
1105. 40:37for the word queries and you can
1106. 40:38literally see and I've made a lot of
1107. 40:40content about this search Edward Sterm
1108. 40:42how to see Chachi PT query fanouts or
1109. 40:44how to see Chachi PT searches um and
1110. 40:46then so you can see what ChachiPT
1111. 40:48searched and I wonder if when you do
1112. 40:51this it's Chachi because ChachiPT does
1113. 40:53not listen and we all anybody who uses
1114. 40:55AI enough knows we gets frustrated that
1115. 40:58these LLMs do not listen and so I I
1116. 41:00wonder if ChachiPT is actually because
1117. 41:02it might have a limit on how long it's
1118. 41:04its query fanouts might be and so it
1119. 41:07actually might be paraphrasing the query
1120. 41:09fan out.
1121. 41:09>> That's why you have to clarify the exact
1122. 41:11phrase.
1123. 41:12>> Yeah. But it might it still might not
1124. 41:13listen because it might there might be a
1125. 41:15limit. And that's why that's why I'm
1126. 41:17curious to see what the query fan out
1127. 41:19for this is. Um because if it is doing
1128. 41:21this then it's just like okay like if it
1129. 41:24is actually searching this exact stuff
1130. 41:25like you can go to Bing which catch PT
1131. 41:27uses and just do it yourself right
1132. 41:29>> and but I I'm very curious about the
1133. 41:32query. I'm very curious if it's going to
1134. 41:34paraphrase
1135. 41:35um when you say go and search this.
1136. 41:38Yeah. Go and search this exact text
1137. 41:39because if it's 20 words, it might not
1138. 41:41actually go and search it. It might
1139. 41:43literally cut it off portion [laughter]
1140. 41:46>> because it does that. It doesn't. So,
1141. 41:48no. So, I I'm I'm I'm curious myself
1142. 41:50about like testing this and and digging
1143. 41:52in and seeing it.
1144. 41:53>> All right. Let us know what you find
1145. 41:54out. Maybe you'll make a video about it.
1146. 41:56>> Maybe. [laughter]
1147. 41:57>> I have a short last one, too. What do
1148. 41:59you got? Last one, too. Um Yeah. So,
1149. 42:02uh, this this is a trick that anybody
1150. 42:05can go do literally in the next 15
1151. 42:07minutes. It's but it's a it's a white
1152. 42:10hat trick, straightforward that anybody
1153. 42:12can do in the next 15 minutes to it
1154. 42:14capitalizes off the topical authority
1155. 42:15that you already have within Google to
1156. 42:18either get new content ranking or
1157. 42:19existing content ranking.
1158. 42:21>> Um, so just go and search this in Google
1159. 42:25uh your website. So like edwardstrom.com
1160. 42:28space and then a key in quotes a keyword
1161. 42:30that a relevant keyword that you want to
1162. 42:32rank for. So it might be like copperquil
1163. 42:35plumbing.com space in quotes emergency
1164. 42:38plumber Austin could be something like
1165. 42:40that, right?
1166. 42:41>> And then you're going to see all this
1167. 42:43content from your website that is
1168. 42:46relevant to your target keyword that is
1169. 42:48indexed on Google.
1170. 42:49>> Sure, makes sense.
1171. 42:50>> You get all these index pages. Now pick
1172. 42:52a target page that you want to boost.
1173. 42:55that's probably going to be the first
1174. 42:56page that shows up. The first page that
1175. 42:58shows up is most likely to be most
1176. 43:00relevant to your target keyword. And
1177. 43:02then just simply link the relevant
1178. 43:04portions of the relevant portion of all
1179. 43:06the other index pages to this target
1180. 43:09page. Very easy. You could do that. You
1181. 43:11do that in a couple you could do that in
1182. 43:12a couple linking hack.
1183. 43:14>> Now, maybe your target page has the
1184. 43:16relevant part buried on it. And so then
1185. 43:19you might want to create like an anchor
1186. 43:21link. um like an acre link looks like a
1187. 43:23hashtag at the end of your URL with that
1188. 43:26portion so that when you're internal
1189. 43:27linking to this target page it's taking
1190. 43:29them to the relevant section on the
1191. 43:31page. Now um if you don't really have
1192. 43:34any good content because it's always
1193. 43:36better to have a page targeting a
1194. 43:38keyword to have like the page be
1195. 43:39relevant to the keyword than a section
1196. 43:41on the page. Page level relevance beats
1197. 43:43section level relevance. So you don't
1198. 43:45have a good page you can just create
1199. 43:47one. Create a new page. Use your target
1200. 43:49keyword in the page title URL slug H1
1201. 43:52beginning of the first sentence like
1202. 43:53just like we were talking about. Take
1203. 43:55those other index pages that showed link
1204. 43:58the relevant portions to this new page.
1205. 44:00Then the new page ranks. Super easy
1206. 44:02trick. Anybody can go do that in the
1207. 44:04next 15 minutes.
1208. 44:05>> This is exactly what we were talking
1209. 44:08about about this like fundamental core
1210. 44:11SEO. It's like you guys are trying to do
1211. 44:13hacks. Do this. This is like internal
1212. 44:17linking. We know it works. How do you
1213. 44:19build internal links? People are like,
1214. 44:21"I don't know." Well, this will tell you
1215. 44:23exactly how to do it. I think that's a
1216. 44:24really top tip. Um, just like find pages
1217. 44:27on your site that are already
1218. 44:28referencing that term and make sure
1219. 44:30you're linking to your your key page
1220. 44:32with it.
1221. 44:33>> Let's go. Let's go.
1222. 44:35>> And actually, I was just looking at
1223. 44:37this. So, this is a post on your website
1224. 44:40and you know, I got your popup. Oh, sign
1225. 44:42up for my newsletter. So, I signed up
1226. 44:44for your newsletter. I can't wait to see
1227. 44:46I can't see wait to see what kind of
1228. 44:47content I get out of your newsletter.
1229. 44:49>> It's a good newsletter.
1230. 44:50>> I think we did it. We did a whole
1231. 44:51podcast. We talked about three links
1232. 44:53each. Uh we talked a lot about three
1233. 44:56links each. This is one of our longer
1234. 44:57episodes, but so packed with value.
1235. 45:00Thanks everybody for listening and
1236. 45:02joining us. And Edward, man, you and I,
1237. 45:05we should just have like a weekly uh
1238. 45:07meet up and just chat about SEO. There's
1239. 45:09so many awesome things to chat about and
1240. 45:11it's great to chat with you. These are a
1241. 45:13lot of fun, everybody. Um, you can go
1242. 45:15and check out Compact Keywords. Uh,
1243. 45:17Compact Keywords is literally like, um,
1244. 45:19it's a 13 and I spent a year making it.
1245. 45:21It's a 13 and 1/2 hour SEO course about
1246. 45:24how to do search engine optimization
1247. 45:25that gets warm leads calling you up,
1248. 45:27paying customers, um, users, and I show
1249. 45:31you how to find the keywords that people
1250. 45:33where people are searching for. They
1251. 45:34know what they want, but they don't know
1252. 45:36the brand that's going to give them what
1253. 45:37they want. They are searching with heat.
1254. 45:39They are in heat. They are turning to
1255. 45:41search engines. They're going to to
1256. 45:43LLM's in heat. They're like, "Oh my god,
1257. 45:45I just want to find this thing to give
1258. 45:46me what I want. I'm ready to convert
1259. 45:48right now." And so I show you how to
1260. 45:50find these searches, how to target them
1261. 45:51with conversionbased SEO landing pages,
1262. 45:54not blog posts. Like SEO landing pages
1263. 45:56made to convert, how to structure your
1264. 45:58site for these pages, how to build
1265. 46:00backlinks, how to do an SEO technical
1266. 46:01audit, an SEO content audit, examples in
1267. 46:04every niche. Um there's written
1268. 46:06portions, there's there's Google Docs,
1269. 46:09Google Sheets, uh templates, everything
1270. 46:12is in that course. And so, you know, I I
1271. 46:14would love and there's a on the landing
1272. 46:16page for that, there's a lot of
1273. 46:18testimonials from local businesses who
1274. 46:20are using the course and loving the
1275. 46:21course and getting great results with
1276. 46:22the course.
1277. 46:23>> And so, um yeah, compact keywords.com if
1278. 46:25you want to check it out. But thank you
1279. 46:27Darren for inviting me on and um thank
1280. 46:30you everybody for watching.
1281. 46:31>> Yeah, it was a pleasure. So check out
1282. 46:32compactkeywords.com and check out
1283. 46:34Weisspars local ranking grids as your
1284. 46:36next two assignments after listening to
1285. 46:39this podcast. [laughter]
1286. 46:40All right, see you everybody. See you
1287. 46:42next week. Claire should be back and uh
1288. 46:44we'll be back to regular business.
1289. 46:45>> Bye everyone. 51.