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Ecobat Resources California, Inc. (formerly Quemetco, Inc.) Temporary Authorization Appeal — Transcript

by Board of Environmental Safety (BES) · 49,275 words · 7,804 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00um good afternoon everyone thank you for
0:01joining us this afternoon for the
0:03board's first permit appeal hearing I am
0:05Sheena Brooks I I will be your board
0:07clerk for the first half of today's
0:09hearing and Evelyn Nuno will board clerk
0:12for the second half of the hearing today
0:14we are joined by the following Board of
0:17environmental safety staff persons
0:19spatti Sharma our executive officer Greg
0:23Forest reporting in progress Linda Campo
0:27the senior staff engineer and Evelyn nun
0:30the bo clerk I would also like to
0:32introduce and thank today's support team
0:35btsc oima who assists with all of our
0:38technical needs Arin a zabella asman
0:43Jason
0:44reallyy dtsc communication staff Adam
0:47Cav oain he helps with the audio and
0:50visual setup including the cameras and
0:52our YouTube video editing California
0:55State University Sacramento staff who
0:57assists as our Zoom facilit facilit Ator
1:00and registration Gabriela chinini and
1:03Sue woods and from Cal interpreting and
1:06translations we are joined by our two
1:08Spanish interpreters Janette Hernandez
1:11and Laticia Raina from Cal recycles AV
1:14Services who are currently live
1:16streaming today's hearing Josh leeski
1:19Abe Meyers and wakin
1:22Moretta today's permanent pill hearing
1:24is being live streamed and recorded and
1:27by your continued participation is
1:29acknowledgement that you are being
1:30recorded today is November 29th
1:342023 at 1:13 p.m. and the hearing is now
1:37call to
1:40order thank you Sheena will you um call
1:43the role of the board please thank you
1:46madam chair jeie Rizzo present sushma
1:55baa dorette
1:58Gomez
2:04Alexis Charles Hecker
2:07present visette Ruiz
2:11present all members are present a quorum
2:14is
2:15established I will now review some
2:17logistical items for today's hearing
2:20which we are conducting in person as
2:22well as offering remote options for
2:23public participation by phone and zoom
2:26for those of you joining us on Zoom I
2:29would to instruct everyone to select
2:31their preferred language options so that
2:33you will be able to fully participate in
2:35today's hearing to do so everyone need
2:38to select the interpretation icon on
2:40your Zoom toolbar which is located at
2:42the bottom of your screen here you will
2:45see three options please select your
2:47language preference by selecting either
2:49English or Spanish if you select Spanish
2:52you will be placed in the Spanish
2:54interpretation room please note if you
2:56do not see the interpretation icon you
2:59may need to update your Zoom
3:01application for participants who have
3:03joined in person and would prefer to
3:05participate in this hearing in Spanish
3:08hearing materials are located on the
3:10registration table and we also have
3:12headsets located on our interpret
3:15interpreter station located at the on
3:17the table towards the back wall please
3:19make your way to the station and a staff
3:21person will assist you for those of you
3:24in the room due to the building's low
3:27internet bandwidth we ask that you not
3:29connect to the community center's Wi-Fi
3:32please either use your M hear you at
3:34this moment give us a second thank
3:38you thank
3:40you thank you we can hear you now okay
3:45um so for those that are joining in
3:47person do not use the commun C Wi-Fi
3:52please either your mobile data or mobile
3:56hotspot additionally additionally if
3:59you're following Along on Zoom please
4:01ensure that both your speaker and
4:03microphones on your devices are
4:06muted I know if anyone experiences
4:10connectivity issues with zoom you can
4:12call in for either English or Spanish
4:15the phone numbers are provided to you
4:16now on the slide in progress and they
4:18will also be provided in the chat okay
4:21so at this time they lost internet
4:23connection so I will
4:25pause until
4:28they
4:43hey Sheena I think um I will take over
4:45for clerking for right now um as we will
4:49as we figure out the um the sound issue
4:53as we figure out the um the sound
4:57issue as we figure out
5:04so from where Sheena had left off um
5:07again for those on Zoom my name is
5:09Evelyn I am um the board
5:13cler following up after Sheena Brooks uh
5:17she had left off from what we heard for
5:19participants who had joined in person
5:21and would prefer to participate in this
5:23hearing in Spanish hearing materials are
5:25located at the registration table um
5:28outside Ward the
5:30hallway
5:33um please make your way to the station
5:35for a staff person to assist you uh for
5:37those of you in the room do the
5:38building's low internet bandwidth as you
5:41can tell uh we ask that you do not
5:43connect to the community center's Wii
5:46please either use your mobile data or
5:48hotspot additionally if you will be uh
5:50following Along on Zoom please ensure
5:53that both your speaker and microphones
5:55on your devices are
5:58muted
6:00uh if anyone experiences connectivity
6:02issues with zoom you can call in for
6:04either English in or Spanish the phone
6:07numbers are provided to you now on the
6:10slide numers are provided to
6:14you excuse me um they will they will be
6:18uh offered to you on the slide soon um
6:21or in the chat uh and they are also
6:23posted on our website they also posted
6:26on oursite so hopefully we will now hear
6:28from one of our interpreters to provide
6:30these instructions for us in Spanish
6:32inst us
6:33inish hi yes thank you I will do my best
6:37despite the technical
6:58difficulty
7:28Zo
7:58Zo
8:28h
8:46thank you back to
8:48you thank you so much I will now review
8:51some logistical items for today's
8:52hearing which are conducted in person as
8:55well as offering remote options for
8:57public participation by phone and zoom
9:00uh for those of us joining on Zoom I
9:02would like to instruct everyone to
9:04select their preferred language option
9:06so that you will be able to fully
9:07participate in today's hearing to do so
9:10everyone needs to select the
9:11interpretation icon on your Zoom toolbar
9:14which is located at the bottom of your
9:15screen uh here you will see three
9:18options please select your language
9:20preference by selecting either English
9:22or Spanish if you select Spanish you
9:24will be placed in the Spanish
9:26interpretation room please note if you
9:28do not see the interpretation icon you
9:30may need to update your Zoom application
9:33but for participants who have joined in
9:34person and would prefer to participate
9:36in this hearing in Spanish um hearing
9:38materials as I mentioned are located at
9:40the registration
9:42table
9:43um again uh due to the buildings blow
9:46bandwidth please um use mobile hotspots
9:50um you know to to be able to um to have
9:55this Zoom connect uh
10:06everything oh I
10:08see excuse me sorry for the repetition
10:12um so meeting materials and Logistics uh
10:15evacuation info um please look around
10:18now and identify two exits closest to
10:20you in some cases an exit may be behind
10:22you in the Advent of a fire alarm we are
10:24required to evacuate this room please
10:27take your valuables with you the
10:29drinking fountain and restrooms are
10:30located directly across the hallway of
10:32this room to your left the board will
10:34take a 35 minute break around uh 325 and
10:37a 15minute break around 3:30 p.m. agenda
10:41Times May fluctuate to accommodate
10:43agenda items um and hearing materials
10:46are available at the registration table
10:48at the room um in the hallway and they
10:51can also be found on our website at
10:54bees. dtsc.ca.gov
10:57close captions are enabled and you can
10:59move the caption uh display or turn it
11:02all turn it off Al together as some of
11:04you may recall Zoom hackers interrupted
11:07one of our aard meetings earlier this
11:08year so as an extra precaution we are
11:10taking several measures to protect
11:12everyone's virtual space and networks we
11:15will use the Q&A function on our CH as
11:17our chat function to ensure that uh
11:19harmful spam links are not shared with
11:21our virtual attendees the Q&A function
11:24will be reserved for those attendees
11:25that are experiencing technical
11:27difficulties or are unable to make
11:29verbal comments please clearly State at
11:31the beginning of your comment please
11:33read aloud and a designated staff person
11:36will notify me to ensure that all our
11:39board members are fully present and
11:41focused on today's presentations and
11:42discussions they are not reading or
11:44following along in the
11:47chat all participants will remain on
11:50mute until a zoom post unmutes them uh
11:52once recognized for comment the video
11:55screens um shared will be of the board
11:58members board Clerk and
12:05presenters okay now bringing everyone's
12:08attention to slide five this is the
12:11format of today's hearing once this
12:14logistical overview is complete our
12:16board chair will provide for opening
12:17remarks item number three Linda OKO our
12:20senior staff engineer will give a 20
12:22minute introduction of today's appeal
12:25item number four we will hear a
12:2820-minute presentation
12:29from the appellant following their
12:31presentation the board will have 15
12:33minutes for any clarification requests
12:36of Earth Justice following Earth Justice
12:39dtsc will provide us with a 20-minute
12:42presentation and following their
12:43presentation the board will have 15
12:45minutes for any clarification requests
12:47of
12:49dtsc for item number six we will hear a
12:5120-minute presentation by ecobath
12:54following their presentation the board
12:56will have 15 minutes for any
12:57clarification requests of
13:01EOP after
13:04that next slide yes thank you uh which
13:07would take us to 3:25 p.m. we will take
13:10a 35 minute break and reconvene around
13:124M for public comment we have allotted
13:1590 minutes for public comment depending
13:17on how many people have signed up to
13:19comment we will allocate three minutes
13:22of per comment we will be utilizing
13:25comment cards for this agenda item so if
13:27you have not already signed up to
13:28comment uh I have some here at this
13:31table they're also located outside at
13:33the registration table um so uh you you
13:37may come up and take a comment card um
13:41and turn it into uh myself or just up
13:44here or to the registration table
13:47outside for item number eight each party
13:50has allocated a maximum of 10 minutes
13:53for their closing remarks including
13:55rebuttal if any the order in which the
13:58closing comments will be called is eoat
14:02dtsc and then Earth
14:05Justice before taking the last break of
14:07the day item number nine uh we will have
14:10final Q&A from board members for a total
14:12of 30 minutes to ask final questions of
14:17staff and
14:20presenters uh we will take a final
14:2215minute break at 6:30 p.m. and we'll
14:25convene reconvene for item number 10 at
14:286 4 for board deliberations and a
14:32vote we expect to adjourn at 7 6:45 this
14:39evening okay for to make a public
14:42comment we welcome uh the many residents
14:44and Industry and Community organizations
14:46that are joining us today in Henda
14:48Heights for our very first permit appeal
14:51hearing item number eight uh public
14:53comment will be held at approximately
14:55400 p.m. as you have seen in our recent
14:57email notifications we are using a new
14:59public comment signup system to create a
15:01more orderly process of identifying
15:03public commenters in advance signup is
15:06not required but is strongly recommended
15:07to ensure you are added to the commenter
15:10list and proper time allocation can be
15:13determined thank you to those who have
15:15signed up in advance for those of you
15:16who wish to comment during public
15:18comment but were not able to sign up
15:20prior to the cut off please complete a
15:22public comment card which is located
15:24again here and at the registration desk
15:27in the hallway um turned it into me and
15:30in order uh in which uh I receive the
15:33common cards we will determine the call
15:35order uh after we have called on the
15:37signup list uh of course for those of
15:40you joining us on Zoom
15:43uh can I please get a show of hands how
15:45many of you plan to comment during item
15:48number
15:56eight okay uh seeing
16:00none I will follow up when it comes time
16:02for Public public comment
16:05um I'll acknowledge each comment by
16:08first and last name as displayed on the
16:10signup sheet and zoom I apologize in in
16:12advance if I mispronounce any names if
16:14you have any if you have joined our oh
16:18oh I'm
16:19sorry my sheets are out of
16:27order
16:38okay sorry continuing um for just these
16:43are just instructions on how to provide
16:45public comment um so again there's the
16:48Q&A function there is the comment cards
16:50uh if you would like to express your
16:52comment in writing you may submit it via
16:53email to binfo
16:56be. c.ca . goov uh if you're
17:00experiencing technical difficulties or
17:01are unable to make verbal comments you
17:03may use the Q&A function uh please
17:05clearly State again at the beginning of
17:07your comment to please read aloud and a
17:09designated staff person uh will notify
17:11me for your convenience we will see a
17:14timer located on the screen you will
17:16hear a chime sound when there are 30
17:17seconds remaining and then another
17:19Melody when three minutes are up the
17:21time allotted will be doubled for
17:22participants expressing their comment in
17:24Spanish to allow for TR translation if
17:27you are commenting in Spanish please let
17:29us know at the start of your
17:31comment and that concludes the
17:33introductory review for today's hearing
17:35I will now hand it over to Cher Rizzo
17:37for item number two well welcome
17:40everyone that was fun wasn't it did y
17:42all have a good time took notes we all
17:46were going to remember everything you
17:47said Evelyn and I'm sorry for Sheena she
17:50was um very willing to join us remotely
17:53so I want to welcome uh to board members
17:58and um and the public those of you in
18:01person the parties that will be
18:03presenting
18:04today for this hearing which is focused
18:07solely on the temporary authorization
18:10requested by eoat formerly kco and
18:13approved by dtsc which is appealed by
18:16Clean Air
18:17Coalition represented by Earth
18:20Justice this is not a hearing on the
18:23final operating permit for eoat that is
18:26in anticipated uh to be issued sometime
18:30around year
18:31end we will limit the scope of this
18:34hearing to the temporary authorization
18:37of two pieces of equipment that eoat has
18:40requested the parties in this hearing
18:43are and I invite you to raise your hand
18:45so people know who's sitting where for
18:47the appellant Clean Air Coalition of
18:49North whiter and avocado Heights
18:51represented by Angela Johnson mazzaros
18:54of Earth Justice and colleagues uh the
18:57permit eoat formerly known as kco
19:00represented by Matt Williamson of manat
19:03Phelps Phillips and colleagues and the
19:06permitting division of the Department of
19:08toxic substances control represented by
19:11division Chief Wayne lorence
19:14environmental scientist Sam Co assistant
19:16chief counsel Anna Katherine Benedict
19:19and Senior councel Leah white hearing
19:22officers are the five appointed members
19:25of the board of environmental safety all
19:27present here here today I want to
19:30further acknowledge our Board of
19:32environmental safety staff members
19:34who've played a critical role in
19:36shepherding the process of this appeal
19:38Linda OK compo bees senior staff
19:41engineer who'll be presenting shortly uh
19:44Greg Forest bees staff attorney who will
19:47raise his hand as our legal advisor and
19:51Guru of law um Board of Environ so and
19:55Swati Sharma bees executive officer
19:58along with our support staff Sheena
20:01Brooks and Evelyn
20:02Nuno per SB 158 legislative mandates
20:07passed in July of 2021 the hearing
20:10officers for this and all future permit
20:12appeals are the five appointed members
20:15of the board of environmental safety as
20:17you know the final board appointments
20:19were made in February of 2022 and that
20:23marked the permit appeals transfer of
20:26authority from dtsc staff to the board
20:30we fully recognize that everyone
20:32attending today has been patiently
20:34waiting for the board to hire staff to
20:38be fully on boarded and prepare itself
20:41for this important
20:43responsibility as with other key
20:45mandates and in compliance with Bagley
20:47Keen requirements the board formed a
20:50working subcommittee on Perm appeals
20:53Lizette
20:54Ruiz and Alexis Strauss hacker supported
20:57by our staff attorney and our staff
20:59engineer and our executive
21:02officer workshops were held and the
21:04board executed its emergency regulatory
21:07authority to revamp the process and
21:10procedures to both streamline and create
21:13full transparency and accountability for
21:16the decision we will make today this
21:19took time and a tremendous amount of
21:21effort and I want to thank all who
21:22contributed to our thinking to all the
21:25members of the public and Facilities and
21:28community members who attended our
21:31workshops and I want to thank
21:34um they all contributed to our thinking
21:37and the final adoption of our RS as well
21:40as to the time it has taken to fully
21:43review and prepare for this hearing
21:45today will be the first permit appeal
21:48appeal hearing held by the board in
21:51January we will take up the second
21:52appeal which is lighting resource
21:55lighting resources which has appealed
21:58its own permit issued by
22:01dtsc permits and any subsequent appeals
22:04have consequences to the facility and
22:07its essential operations the community
22:10potentially affected by those activities
22:13the department as it strives to meet its
22:15mandate to protect Public Health in the
22:18environment and more more broadly to the
22:21expectations we set for the operation of
22:24permitted facilities going forward we
22:27take is very seriously and are committed
22:30by our own operational and governance
22:32guidelines for those of you who haven't
22:35read them lately they're all up on our
22:37website
22:39um and now I've lost my place
22:44uh okay yes uh to be fair and impartial
22:49to hear all sides of the issue before us
22:52not to come in with presumed responses
22:56to anything and everyone has has really
22:58done that I will say I'm really pleased
23:01with the way everyone has approached
23:03this and we want to hear all sides and
23:07that's the six people at the tables and
23:10the public and the community so that's
23:13very important for us to know where all
23:15of this sits in the bigger picture of
23:18protecting health and the environment
23:20for the people of California while we
23:22know that members of the public have
23:24challenges making time to attend public
23:27hearings and for some Daytime is
23:30impossible for others evenings don't
23:32work weekdays are hard and weekends are
23:34harder we scheduled this from 1 to 7 in
23:37a sincere effort to bridge time frames
23:40and allow for maximum participation for
23:44all to witness our vote and reasoning
23:47for our ultimate decision and of course
23:49as you heard the zoom is recorded and
23:51everyone will be able to watch it on
23:54Saturday
23:55mornings all board and staff of of
23:58uh staff members of bees were provided
24:01with the essential documents related to
24:04this appeal as well as to the
24:06administrative record these documents
24:09have been posted on our website and will
24:11remain publicly available we will
24:14conduct this hearing with absolute
24:16adherence to the agenda the order of
24:18presentations and the time allowed for
24:20each presenter public comments and for
24:23the board's
24:24deliberations for many of you who've
24:27attended past meetings of ours this is
24:29unlike some of our more informal
24:31segments at board meetings and general
24:34meetings and workshops we will not
24:37indulge cross chalk or ad hoc rebuttal
24:40all parties have been apprised of the
24:42time limits and each segment of the
24:46hearing we've allowed time for closing
24:49comments by one representative of each
24:51party the appellant the facility and the
24:54department as well as ample time for
24:56public comments you heard that from
24:58Evelyn so if you are thinking about
25:00making a public comment it would be
25:02helpful to us to grab a card so we have
25:05a sense of how many uh people will be
25:07wanting to make public comments at that
25:10point in the in the
25:13hearing as noted and worth restating
25:16this hearing will deal with one issue
25:17only the approval by dtsc of a temporary
25:21authorization granted in July 2022 to
25:25eoat and appealed by Clean Air Coalition
25:28of Northwood a and avocado Heights
25:30represented by Earth Justice copies of
25:33the agenda are available and to recap
25:35here's the order of the day Linda OK
25:38compo our staff engineer will provide an
25:41introduction which will be mo all
25:43instructive about the process and know
25:46and you'll understand better how we
25:49proceeded to go through our process
25:51based on her presentation copies of the
25:54agenda are available and uh then after
25:58Linda comes the appellant the department
26:01of uh the department which is dtsc and
26:04the and the facility you heard from
26:06Evelyn each will have 20 minutes for
26:08their presentation followed by 15
26:10minutes of clarifying questions from
26:12board
26:15members after a break we'll open it up
26:17for public comment depending on the
26:20number of registered commenters will
26:23have a minimum of three minutes I know
26:26maybe our posting didn't get that
26:28accurately but it'll be a minimum of
26:31three and depending on the number of
26:33public comments it could be more than
26:34that could be up up to five our our own
26:37protocol and regulations call for three
26:39to five there was just a little glitch
26:41on that one we used the standard with
26:44the that we use for our general meetings
26:47but there will be three minutes after a
26:49break we will open it up at that point
26:51for the public comment closing arguments
26:54based on questions comments each party
26:56at the hearing will then be allowed
26:58another 10 minutes for closing comments
27:02and we'll do that again in reverse order
27:05ecobath and dtsc followed by the
27:07appellant represented by Earth Justice
27:10board members will then have an
27:12opportunity to discuss to deliberate and
27:15to ask any critical questions that they
27:18may have of presenters Andor staff our
27:22executive officer sahy Sharma will
27:25facilitate that segment and direct the
27:28questions
27:29appropriately only the person questioned
27:32May answer that's pretty standard we're
27:34not
27:35having five people stand up for the same
27:38question so SWA has a a big task to be
27:41sure that the question is directed as
27:43the person
27:44intended then we'll take a short break
27:47because we'll all need it and we'll
27:48reconvene for any final discussions or
27:51clarifications that the board has with
27:53the staff I will then conduct the voting
27:56process a call for motions and we will
28:00do that until such time as a majority of
28:03three of the five board members concur
28:06that's our Quorum there's five of us we
28:08need three people to vote up or down on
28:11this appeal once we have a final
28:14ruling the final order will be prepared
28:17by the staff attorney and as we've said
28:20it goes into effect immediately and we
28:23will provide that up on our website with
28:26a narrative of rationale for how we
28:29arrived at that as you know all of our
28:31meetings are recorded there are
28:33transcripts there will be minutes of the
28:36meeting and there's ample opportunity to
28:39gather the the information that we need
28:42to augment the final order besides the
28:45decision so that's welcome that's my
28:49welcome in setting up the stage So
28:52within two weeks this what I forgot
28:55within two weeks a summary do document
28:57with that rationale and the transcripts
29:00will be made available on our um
29:04website and they will then become part
29:08of the administrative record right they
29:10are now part of this whole effort so I
29:12want to thank you for your interest in
29:14engagement in this process and uh this
29:19transition of permit appeals to the
29:21board as part of the larger reform was
29:24driven by board by
29:27stakeholders interest and concern and so
29:31I just want to remind you that this this
29:34s SP 158 is in response to community and
29:38other stakeholder concerns around uh the
29:41process not being as transparent as it
29:44could be uh in the past permit appeals
29:47were dealt with by a permit appeals
29:49officer within the department and issued
29:53we're having an open hearing we've had
29:55open workshops so we hope that that
29:56process
29:58and making this hearing then available
30:01um online a infinitum will help everyone
30:05appreciate uh the fact that it is an
30:07open transparent process so on that
30:10score uh we'll now turn to Alexus hacker
30:13to address an emergency um request that
30:17we received uh less than 24 hours ago so
30:21uh Lexus will
30:24address thank you chair Rizzo yesterday
30:27Earth Justice on behalf of the Clean Air
30:29Coalition filed a motion to strike to
30:33exclude some content in today's
30:35presentations by dtsc and
30:38eoat appeals of temporary authorizations
30:42as we're hearing today have some
30:45procedural
30:46differences a three-page brief is filed
30:49early in the process and doesn't involve
30:52filing a full petition as would occur in
30:55the appeal of other perit
30:57decisions the administrative record was
31:00made available to the board and the
31:01public Rules of Evidence do not apply in
31:05this setting or to appeals of other
31:07permit
31:08decisions the ability of board members
31:11and the public to refer to material
31:15which gives context and allows for a
31:17folsome discussion without bringing in
31:20other issues is critical some of the
31:23slides such as photos are not in the
31:25formal administrative record certified
31:28earlier but Aid in the board members and
31:30the Public's awareness and
31:33understanding you may note that some
31:35PowerPoint slides are for demonstration
31:38purposes only and not to introduce any
31:41new issues on
31:43appeal we provided today's presentations
31:46in advance and are bringing this issue
31:49forward to you in the interest of
31:51transparency the chair and I have
31:53conferred and decided to deny the motion
31:57each party will continue as she had
31:59announced to make its 20 minute
32:01presentations and then have the
32:03additional 10 minutes to make final
32:05comments at which time they can comment
32:08on the materials presented today I
32:11return it to you chair
32:13relle thank you I think now we're going
32:15to hear from Linda OK
32:19compo my my Po punched thing I don't
32:24know what
32:26happened
32:42okay right good afternoon chair and
32:45everyone present both in person and
32:48remotely today we're hearing the appeal
32:50of dtc's Permitting decision to Grant
32:53the temporary authorization for the eoat
32:55facility formerly known as Meco as
32:58introduced by chair Rizo the appeal was
33:01filed by Earth Justice on behalf of its
33:03client Cleary Coalition of North waiter
33:05and avocado
33:07Heights now before I get into the
33:09presentation I'd like to First clarify
33:11that the intent of this presentation is
33:13to highlight the appeals process
33:16undertaken by the
33:17board specific details on the issues
33:20raised in the appeal and responses will
33:22be discussed in the presentations to
33:25follow
33:32now in the agenda for today's
33:34presentation we have um I'll first go
33:36over the content of the hearing packet
33:40next we'll shift
33:44over next we'll shift over to an
33:46overview of the regulations governing
33:48the granting and appealing of temporary
33:51authorizations following that we'll look
33:53into the key events and developments
33:55leading up to this hearing
33:57and lastly we'll go over the board's
33:59appeal review process and decision to be
34:02included in the final
34:06order the hearing packet contains key
34:09documents to help with today's
34:10proceedings it includes the agenda to
34:13help navigate through the various
34:14segments of the
34:15hearing also our Clerk and chair will be
34:19leading us through every segment of
34:21today's hearing the packet also includes
34:24the written statements submitted from
34:25the appellant and position statements
34:27from dtsc permitting and
34:30eoat the presentations to follow will be
34:32centered around the arguments and
34:34responses outlined in these
34:37statements we have also included a draft
34:40version of the final order that will be
34:43used to memorize the board's decision on
34:45the
34:47appeal and I'll just repeat again what
34:49Evelyn the chair had mention the digital
34:51copies are available in the chat there's
34:54a link that's been dropped in the chat
34:57um they're also available at the
34:58registration
35:02table all right so before I get into the
35:04regulations I'd like to First provide a
35:06summary of the actions leading to this
35:10appeal in June of 2022 eoat fer requests
35:14for a temporary authorization to
35:16implement the dewatering
35:18project now this temporary authorization
35:21constitutes a modification to the
35:23existing 2005 operating permit it is not
35:27associated with the renewal permit
35:28discussed in previous public
35:30meetings on July of the same year DTC
35:33permitting reviewed and approve the
35:35request and in August Earth Justice on
35:38behalf of cleaner Coalition referred to
35:40as the appellant from now on appeal this
35:44decision in agreement with the new
35:46regulations adopted by the board the
35:49Appel and refile the appeal on June 30th
35:51of
35:552023
35:58all right um so now we'll get into the
36:02regulations for issuing temporary
36:03authorizations but first I want to set
36:05the stage with an understanding of what
36:08Perma modifications
36:10are per modifications are changes a
36:13facility can make to the existing
36:14hazardous waste permits these
36:17modifications are classified into
36:19different categories for instance class
36:21one class two and class three based on
36:23the scope of changes essentially the
36:26greater the scope of the change the
36:28higher the classification
36:31number so how does the temporary
36:33authorization fit in the context of
36:36permit
36:37modifications a temporary authorization
36:39is a short-term permitting tool designed
36:41to expedite the
36:43implementation of certain class two and
36:46class three type
36:48modifications that meet the
36:52criteria now let's get specific to the
36:55regulations for temporal
36:57authorizations as we'll see here the
37:00regulations facilitate this expedited
37:03process for instance DTC May Grant a
37:07temporary authorization without prior
37:09public notice and
37:11comment this is meant to streamline the
37:13approval process compared to the
37:15lengthier process for permit
37:18modifications in some cases a facility
37:21May request a temporary authorization
37:23before submitting a class two or class 3
37:25per modification
37:27Quest this is a strategic approach to
37:30enable the facility to expedite the
37:32changes while modification for permanent
37:35changes is under
37:38review the temporary authorization is
37:40limited to a term of 180 days as is
37:43designed to address time sensitive
37:45conditions or provides short-term
37:49Solutions now dtc's permitting is
37:52required to make a decision as quickly
37:53as practical to ensure a faster turn
37:56around compared to the per modification
38:00reviews and given the flexibility and
38:02advantages offered by temporary
38:04authorizations when
38:07granting the department must ensure that
38:10a the activities comply with the
38:12environmental standards of chapter 14
38:16which are the standards for owners and
38:17operators of hazardous waste
38:20facilities dtsc must also find that b
38:23the temporary authorization is exempt or
38:25meets the applicable SQ requirements and
38:28see that the temper authorization is
38:30necessary to achieve one of five listed
38:33objectives before action is lightly
38:36taken on the modification
38:39request now I'll try to attempt to break
38:42this down especially c
38:45um do objectives are essentially time
38:48sensitive conditions that need to be
38:50address for example um facilitating or
38:54the objectives to facilitate timely
38:55closure or correct Ive actions um to
38:58enable temporary storage of hazardous
39:00waste preventing disruptions on Waste
39:03Management
39:04activities responding to changes in
39:07waste management and protecting human
39:09health and
39:13environments now the phrase before
39:15action is likely taken on a modification
39:18request refers to a critical time frame
39:22consideration but for better
39:24interpretation of the purpose of temper
39:26author decisions we often turn to the
39:28federal Ru making
39:34documents now because California
39:36regulations on temporary authorizations
39:38mirror the principles outlin in federal
39:40rules at times the nuances of in the
39:43intent and purpose of temporary
39:45authorizations are drawn from comments
39:48and epa's final rule on Perma
39:50modifications dat in
39:531988 this is helpful to gain insight
39:56into the the Practical meaning of
39:57phrases like before action is likely
40:00taken on a modification
40:02request and I erases primarily to shed
40:05some light on the or origin of the
40:07interpretation of phrases like this that
40:10are used in the
40:15appeal now the public participation
40:17requirements are shaped by the per
40:19modification process the key difference
40:23between a temper authorization and the
40:25per modification process lies in the
40:27level and extent of public
40:29involvement with a temporary with a
40:32temporary authorization process designed
40:34to address urgent and time-sensitive
40:36conditions the emphasis is on informing
40:39the public rather than engaging in a
40:41public participation process the per
40:44modification process on the other hand
40:46requires a more extensive public
40:49participation process as we can see here
40:52this involves engagement with the
40:53community to gather insights and
40:55concerns
40:57now based on the differences the
40:58regulations for temporary authorizations
41:01attempt to strike a balance between
41:03promptly addressing time sensitive
41:06conditions and Community
41:08awareness and now when the Urgent
41:11conditions are absent the regulations
41:13allow for Greater Community engagement
41:15that can help identify potential issues
41:17or
41:18considerations that might not be
41:20immedately evident to regulatory
41:22authorities this in turn contributes to
41:24a more informed decision Mak
41:30process now what does it take to file an
41:33appeal for decisions on temporary
41:36authorizations effective May 1st of 2023
41:39the board adopted the new permit appeal
41:41regulations that replaced previous under
41:44Section 662
41:4671.8 any person may file a petition to
41:49appeal dtc's decision on a temporary
41:52authorization the petition for appeal
41:54must be filed no later than 30 calend
41:56days after dtc's permitting
41:59decision now a notable change here is a
42:02reduced briefing period unlike the
42:04previous appeal process the board does
42:06not issue an initial order in this case
42:09rather the appeal is decided by the
42:10board at a public
42:12hearing these changes were made in an
42:14attempt to streamline the appeals
42:16process for temporary
42:22authorizations from this point on I'll
42:24go over the specific activities related
42:26to the peel of a July 2022 temporary
42:32authorization again to reiterate on June
42:342022 eat submitted a temper
42:36authorization request to advance the
42:38dewatering project on July 22 2022 DTS
42:43approved The Temper
42:45authorization the approval was issued
42:47for both the installation and operation
42:50of the dewatering
42:51system in light of the information
42:54provided in the request DTC found that
42:56the activities of a duw watering project
42:59were necessary to facilitate other
43:01changes to protect human health in the
43:03environment before action is slly taken
43:06on the modification request and that is
43:09one of the one of the five key
43:11objectives of the reg
43:16regulations now we'll look into the
43:18chronological sequence of events leading
43:21to this
43:23hearing the appeal process was initiated
43:25with the p filing the initial appeal in
43:27August 8th of
43:302022 this also marked the beginning of
43:32the
43:34stay of the effectiveness of the
43:37temporary
43:39authorization now at this point in time
43:41the appeals process was put on hold onto
43:43the new regulations came into effect on
43:45May 1st of
43:472023 these new regulations require the
43:50refiling of all existing appeals
43:52including this one and before refiling
43:55Appeals the pen requested the
43:57administrative record used to support
43:59the approval of the temporary
44:02authorizations on May 30th dtsc provided
44:05the administrative record to the
44:07board the administrative record
44:10primarily consisted of documents
44:11associated with the request and approval
44:13of the 2022 temporary
44:16authorization the record also included
44:18documents related to the request
44:20approval and appeal of the 2021
44:22temporary
44:23authorization which decision was later V
44:26ated by dtc's appeals officer in a
44:28response to the
44:30appeal on June 30th 2023 the appellant
44:33refiled this
44:35appeal by July 28th dtsc and eat
44:39submitted opposition statements and also
44:41on the same day the pellen filed a
44:43motion to complete the administrative
44:45record for the pellant this motion aimed
44:47to include all relevant information
44:49related to the 2022 temporary
44:51authorization
44:52approval by October 5th the chair and
44:55vice chair granted the appellant motion
44:57to complete the administrative record
45:00with respect to six documents and Signal
45:02the certification of the
45:07record now in preparation for the
45:09hearing the board also sent out public
45:11notification Millers to the contact list
45:13maintained by dtc's public participation
45:16units and that leads us to today the
45:19hearing to the side on the
45:24appeal now we'll go into the board's
45:27review process for reaching a decision
45:29on the merits of the appeal the review
45:32process was kicked off by evaluating the
45:34written statements to identify the
45:36issues raised in relevant standard or
45:39review next factual claims were verified
45:42by examining the administrative record
45:44including the files added through the
45:46palent
45:48motion now it relates to evidence the
45:51standing order 2302 adopted by the board
45:53currently limits evidence to materials
45:55within the certified administrative
45:58record the board will complete its
46:00evaluation process today by assessing
46:02the information provided during the
46:03presentations and public
46:07comments board staff will also
46:09participate as needed to support the
46:11board in the
46:16evaluation now after carefully
46:18considering all factual claims
46:20interpretations and evidence presented
46:22today the board will decide to Grant or
46:24deny the appeal
46:26the decision will hinge on whether dtc's
46:29decision to Grant the temporary
46:31authorization rest on facts that are
46:33clearly
46:37erroneous so what will unfold after the
46:39board's decision should the board decide
46:42to Grant the appeal the temporary
46:44authorization approval is reversed and
46:46set
46:47aside conversely if the appeal is denied
46:50the temporary authorization becomes
46:52effective for a period of 180 days this
46:56is of course contingent upon the board's
46:57determination that dtc's decision was
47:00sound in in compliance with
47:02regulations the board's decision to
47:04Grant or Deni will take effect
47:08today now given that this is taking
47:11place at a public hearing the rationale
47:13behind the board's decision will be
47:15formally incorporated into the final
47:17order at the closing of this hearing in
47:21a finalized version of the final order
47:23along with the minutes and transcript
47:25for from this hearing will be issued
47:27within 30 days from today I know it was
47:31mentioned two weeks um it was 30 days
47:34from today's State thank you for that
47:36correction thank you and this concludes
47:39the board staff presentation thank you
47:41all who join us today and I'll turn to
47:43the
47:45chair thank you
47:47Linda uh and today now we will hear
47:50presentations from all three parties
47:53involved uh and I I think there'll be a
47:56clock I don't know if there'll be a
47:58clock but we can be the clock if it
48:00doesn't show up on the website so we are
48:03now going to hear from uh Earth Justice
48:08representing clean air Coalition of
48:09North wooder and avocado Heights um
48:14welcome Angela Johnson
48:24mazaro
48:26thank you I you just have a second to
48:29set things
48:54up
49:46hey I'm old enough to know you just have
49:49to take a minute and set yourself up
49:51ready we could hear you enough to know
49:54I'm old enough to know that you just
49:55have have to take a moment and set
49:56yourself up
49:58absolutely okay it's
50:01201 thank you good afternoon Madam chair
50:05and members of the board I'm Angela
50:08Johnson mazaras appearing today on
50:10behalf of the Clean Air Coalition of
50:12North whiter and avocado Heights I'll
50:14refer to them as CAC going
50:18forward this hearing today is about a
50:20single facility and it is also about so
50:24much more our client sent us here today
50:27to demand Integrity in dtc's permit
50:30modification
50:31program 16 months ago CAC challenged
50:36permit's decision to approve a
50:38facility's second request for a
50:40so-called temporary authorization to
50:42operate certain equipment it has already
50:44installed in its
50:46facility a temporary authorization is a
50:48permit lasting for no more than 180 days
50:51that the department may not shall Grant
50:55if and only if necessary for certain
50:58listed objectives before action is
51:01likely to be taken on a modification
51:04request this permitting decision like
51:07all dtsc decisions must not be contrary
51:10to the law and must be supported by
51:12evidence in the record here permitting
51:15decision is
51:17neither today permitting asked this
51:20board to embrace an interpretation of
51:23the temporary authorization regulation
51:25that is at best ill advised at its worse
51:30it's catastrophic for public
51:32participation transparency and the
51:34Integrity of the permit modification
51:38program permitting approved quo's
51:40request in a short letter not even three
51:42pages in June of
51:452022 permitting wrote essentially that a
51:48permit can make a sign that a permit can
51:51make significant modifications to its
51:54facility quote without the delay
51:56associated with a permit modification
51:59request public comment period and final
52:01decision end quote when the modification
52:04would allow a facility to quote better
52:07and more safely manage its waste because
52:10the normal permitting process quote
52:13could take between six months and a year
52:15from start to
52:17finish permitting decision is unlawfully
52:20flawed for three reasons that I'll
52:22describe in more detail in a
52:24moment those reasons are first it does
52:27not align with the plain language of the
52:30regulation honestly what modification
52:33request doesn't meet the standard that
52:35permitting proposes
52:37here permitting has proposed an
52:39interpretation of the temporary
52:41authorization request so broad that it
52:43swallows the whole of the permit
52:45modification
52:47rule second permitting determination
52:50that a temporary authorization was quote
52:53necessary before action was like likely
52:55to be taken on a modif on a modification
52:58request is not supported by evidence in
53:00the record in fact the record shows that
53:03permitting had taken action on the
53:06modification request for the exact
53:08equipment at issue here before this
53:10temporary author request was even
53:13submitted third btsc's permit appeals
53:17officer has already rejected permitting
53:20earlier effort to do exactly what it's
53:22doing here when permitting approved
53:25meco's first temporary authorization
53:27request the appeals officer found that
53:29quote a temporary authorization should
53:32not replace a timely permit modification
53:35requests since the facility has been
53:37placing hazardous waste containing free
53:40liquids on the floor of the containment
53:42building since at least
53:462001 permitting temporary authorization
53:49is not and cannot be based on proper
53:53understanding of the law and the facts
53:54that are before this board it is based
53:57on a clearly erroneous interpretation of
53:59the law and a clearly erroneous find and
54:01fact additionally permitting has
54:04exceeded the reasonable bounds of its
54:06discretion in approving quo's temporary
54:08authorization request we respectfully
54:11request that the board Grant cic's
54:13appeal and enter in order of vacating
54:16and setting aside for meeting's decision
54:18and direct the permitting division to
54:20deny this facility's second temporary
54:22authorization request now for more
54:24detail
54:26first her meeting's interpretation of
54:29the temporary authorization process is
54:31not supported by the text of the
54:34regulation the regulation requires an
54:37explanation of why the temporary
54:39authorization is
54:40necessary but we suspect that all of us
54:43can agree that the goal of dtc's puring
54:46approvals is always to achieve
54:48environmental benefits that lead to
54:51better and more safely managed waste and
54:55we suspect that all of us can agree that
54:58a permitting decision that bypasses the
55:01normal permit modification process which
55:03involves at least a 60-day public
55:05comment period and the development of a
55:07full final decision by permitting will
55:10always take less time than when those
55:12activities are
55:14bypassed the regulation clearly seeks
55:17something more than permitting be
55:19assertion that the class two permitting
55:21process takes more time to complete than
55:24the temporary reauthorization process to
55:27further clarify this point the board can
55:29take a look at the US EPA which we know
55:32you've often looked at in the past to
55:34facilitate your decision making on other
55:37issues and while dtc's regulation is not
55:40identical to epas in important ways
55:43epa's discussion of its rationale for
55:45adopting its temporary authorization
55:47regulation and adoption that came prior
55:50to California's adoption of its own
55:52conforming regulation can provide
55:55helpful context for understanding dtc's
55:58regulation there US EPA explained that
56:01it recognized that it would be helpful
56:03to create a system to modify Rick
56:05permits which are usually written for 10
56:08years of operation without requiring a
56:11process akin to a full permit
56:13application needed for new
56:15requirements basically both EPA and
56:18dtc's regulation allows the permittee to
56:21se permittee to seek a permit
56:23modification using in the class 123
56:26system which has been noted here today
56:29the less potentially impactful the
56:31change the less public participation is
56:37required no I'm
56:43good
56:51yeah the rule also gave EPA the
56:54authority to Grant authorizations
56:56without prior public notice and comment
56:58for activities that are necessary for
57:00Facility Owners and operators to quote
57:03respond to promptly to respond promptly
57:07to changing conditions end quote but
57:09another way EPA sought to make a process
57:12that would allow what it called rapid
57:15action uh when required to protect human
57:19health and the environment the state of
57:21California adopted its own conforming
57:23regulation in 199 91 the regulation did
57:27not as permitting suggest create a
57:29system that grants permitting authority
57:31to bypass the regular permit
57:33modification process whenever the
57:36modification request provides an
57:38environmental benefit this is true even
57:41when permitting describes the purported
57:44environmental benefit as
57:46significant rather it provided an
57:49opportunity to authorize changes
57:51necessary to respond rampantly to
57:53changing conditions
57:55an example may be helpful here let's
57:59imagine there was a big fire that
58:01resulted in a large volume of hazardous
58:04waste that needed to be processed at a
58:06specific
58:07site and let's imagine that to address
58:11this new material the facility needed to
58:13increase it the facility needed to
58:16increase its container storage capacity
58:18by
58:2025% that change would need a class two
58:23permit modification
58:26finally let's imagine that those
58:28containers would need to be on site for
58:30120 days just to process that material
58:34in this scenario the temporary
58:36authorization process could allow dtsc
58:39to Grant a temporary authorization to
58:41add that capacity to facilitate the
58:44treatment of that hazardous waste or
58:47maybe the containers would be needed
58:48there for 3 years a temporary
58:51authorization will facilitate the the
58:53facility's ability to begin processing
58:56that waste while it apply for and
58:58receive a Class 2 permit
59:01modification in this example taking six
59:04to 12 months for permitting before the
59:06containers could be used would impede
59:09rather than facilitate the protection of
59:11human health and the environment but
59:14this example is entirely unlike what has
59:16occurred here in fact here quco has been
59:20dumping lead bearing material onto the
59:22batch house floor for decades
59:25the need to address the excess of liquid
59:28that quco dumps onto its floor is
59:31certainly important but the mere fact
59:35that a modification is important as are
59:38all class two and class three
59:41modifications does not mean that the
59:43facility should be allowed to shortcut
59:45the regular permitting process and
59:48permitting provides no reason
59:49justification for why that should happen
59:52here the regulation clearly requires a
59:56rationale Beyond merely stating that to
59:59do so would allow dtsc to continue its
1:00:02Mission as permitting has asserted
1:00:06here quo's explanation why its second
1:00:10temporary authorization request should
1:00:11be approved is also very telling in its
1:00:15application to permitting quco points
1:00:17out that cac's appeal of its approved
1:00:20Class 2 permit modification and the
1:00:23quote long delays in the processing of
1:00:26these appeals end quote has meant that
1:00:28quote quco has in large part not been
1:00:32able to operate the deing equipment to
1:00:34date quco now boldly asserts that quote
1:00:38only a temporary authorization would
1:00:41allow quco to facilitate these proposed
1:00:44changes to protect human health in the
1:00:47environment end quote the application
1:00:49goes on to explain quote indeed the
1:00:52delays caused by these appeal appeals or
1:00:55alternatively the attendant delay in any
1:00:58processing of an of a
1:01:02modification have led to
1:01:07circumstances where implementation of
1:01:09the dewatering project has become a
1:01:12matter of urgency board members I cannot
1:01:16stress this enough getting around delays
1:01:20caused by an appeal is not an allowable
1:01:24use for the Perman for the temporary
1:01:28authorization
1:01:30process second permitting determination
1:01:33that this temporary authorization is
1:01:35necessary before action is likely to be
1:01:37taken on um on a modification request is
1:01:41false the regulation's language is clear
1:01:44a temporary authorization can be granted
1:01:47only after finding that it's necessary
1:01:49before action is likely to be taken on
1:01:51the modification request indeed this
1:01:54requirement played a prominent role in
1:01:56dtc's permit appeals officers January
1:01:592022 decision vacating permitting first
1:02:02temporary authorization approval the Pao
1:02:05actually emphasized this specific phrase
1:02:07to stress its
1:02:09importance nonetheless in an action
1:02:12completely contrary to the language of
1:02:14the regulation and with blatant
1:02:15disregard for the pao's decision
1:02:18permitting approved this
1:02:20authorization after it had already taken
1:02:23action on a permit modif
1:02:25per modification request for the exact
1:02:28equipment that's at issue here nothing
1:02:32nothing makes it more clear how utterly
1:02:35BL baseless the claim is that this
1:02:38authorization was necessary before
1:02:40action was likely to be taken than the
1:02:42fact that the action had already been
1:02:45taken there is absolutely no dispute
1:02:48that quco requested a Class 2 permit
1:02:51modification for the exact equipment at
1:02:53issue here and there is absolutely no
1:02:56dispute that permitting approved that
1:02:59request but permitting and quco want you
1:03:03to pretend that the approval never
1:03:05happened because kco withdrew its permit
1:03:09requests this is
1:03:12nonsensical first what does it mean to
1:03:14withdraw a request that's already been
1:03:17approved but second and more importantly
1:03:21fco's withdrawal cannot and does not
1:03:24change the fact that permitting action
1:03:26had already occurred or put another way
1:03:29the withdrawal cannot and did not change
1:03:32the past it only impacted the future and
1:03:36quo's withdrawal had two consequences
1:03:39first the board decided to dismiss cac's
1:03:42appeal of the Class 2 permit
1:03:43modification approval as Moot and second
1:03:46if quco wants to operate the equipment
1:03:49that it that is now the subject of this
1:03:51appeal it needs to restart its
1:03:53permitting process
1:03:55but none of us not even quco and not
1:03:58permitting can change the
1:04:00past the fact that quco does not have an
1:04:03approved class two permit modification
1:04:06today is not because permitting failed
1:04:08to act rather it's because quco decided
1:04:12to withdraw its request this board must
1:04:15not ref must refuse to ignore the plain
1:04:19facts before
1:04:20it third dtc's Appeals officer has
1:04:25already rejected permit's previous
1:04:27effort to do exactly what it's doing
1:04:30here when cic appealed permitting
1:04:34request for the exact equipment at issue
1:04:37here the appeals officer vacated the
1:04:40approval permitting bco asked the board
1:04:43to understand the decision is finding
1:04:45merely there wasn't a technical
1:04:48deficiency because quco and permitting
1:04:50didn't include an explanation for why
1:04:53the authorization was necessary but quco
1:04:56ignores the finding that the officer
1:05:05made that finding that quote a temporary
1:05:09authorization should not replace a
1:05:11timely permit modification
1:05:13request only one thing has changed
1:05:16between the time that the Pao made that
1:05:18finding and today now we know that
1:05:21permitting can and in fact did take out
1:05:24action on the equipment at issue here
1:05:26and it does not and this decision does
1:05:29not meet the requirements of a temporary
1:05:31authorization and this board cannot find
1:05:34otherwise I'm going to conclude by
1:05:36[Music]
1:05:37highlighting four key dates
1:05:43and three four C cord four key dates and
1:05:48three highlevel
1:05:51messages the permitting process here has
1:05:53been long
1:05:54and it's easy to get lost in some of the
1:05:56details we urge you to focus on four key
1:06:00dates April 19th
1:06:042021 February 23rd
1:06:072022 April 9th
1:06:102022 and June 24th
1:06:132022 April 19 2021 was when permitting
1:06:16approved quo's first temporary
1:06:18authorization requests this approval
1:06:21completely excluded the public including
1:06:23our client from participating in the per
1:06:25meeting request despite cic's long and
1:06:28sustained engagement related to quo's
1:06:32operations kuo's assertion that there's
1:06:34been extensive opportunities for public
1:06:36comment ignores this fact February 23rd
1:06:412022 is when permitting approved K
1:06:43meco's Class 2 permit modification
1:06:46request for the equipment at issue
1:06:48here
1:06:50and June 9th 2022 is when kco submitted
1:06:54a second temporary author temporary
1:06:57authorization request even though
1:06:59permitting had already approved its
1:07:01class to permit request on February
1:07:0423rd and June
1:07:0724th after submitting this second
1:07:09request is when quco withdrew its Class
1:07:122 permit request for this same
1:07:15equipment dtc's regulations requires
1:07:19that a temporary authorization may be
1:07:23issued if and only if it is necessary to
1:07:26achieve specified objectives before the
1:07:29action is taken on a modification
1:07:31request this process is meant to
1:07:34facilitate agency action when
1:07:35circumstances require an expedited
1:07:38permit
1:07:39modification here her meeting's
1:07:41interpretation of the role of the
1:07:43temporary authorization process is not
1:07:45supported by the Plain language of the
1:07:48regulation and therefore is clearly
1:07:50erroneous as a matter of law further
1:07:53btsc's determination that this temporary
1:07:56authorization was necessary before
1:07:58action was taken on a modification is
1:08:01clearly erroneous as a matter of fact
1:08:04since permitting had taken action on the
1:08:06class 2
1:08:07modification finally dtc's permit
1:08:10appeals officer rejected the previous e
1:08:13effort to issue a temporary
1:08:15authorization for this exact equipment
1:08:18and
1:08:19found explicitly that quote a temporary
1:08:22authorization should not replace a
1:08:25timely modification request since the
1:08:28facility had been placing hazardous Wass
1:08:31containing free liquid on the floor of
1:08:33the containment building since at least
1:08:362001 the decision that this board is
1:08:39called to make today is critically
1:08:42important deference to dtsc staff does
1:08:46not mean that you can or should set
1:08:48aside your own ability to think
1:08:50critically about the information that's
1:08:52being permitted here
1:08:54today I'd be honored to answer your
1:09:01questions I think we do all of them
1:09:04right in order or do we ask our
1:09:06questions then
1:09:09sorry I was I was so engrossed in your
1:09:11presentation I lost track of the order
1:09:13of things thank you Angela um okay so do
1:09:17we have questions from the board
1:09:22for
1:09:26any
1:09:28questions okay
1:09:33Alexis Thank You For Preparing the
1:09:37presentation I am mindful since this is
1:09:39our very first permit appeal and um the
1:09:43first such time it's being done in a
1:09:45public setting how important it is that
1:09:47we come to a just conclusion here and
1:09:50make that decision known today the
1:09:53standard for for the board um to go one
1:09:56way or another is that something is
1:09:58clearly erroneous and as we track
1:10:01through the presentation you made and
1:10:04the sequencing of the first and second
1:10:06temporary authorization and so
1:10:08on what is the clearly what stands out
1:10:12to you you and your client as the
1:10:15clearly erroneous element
1:10:19here so uh the clearly erroneous
1:10:22standard has two pieces
1:10:24clearly erroneous is a finding um as a
1:10:26matter of Law and clearly erroneous as a
1:10:29finding of fact and we believe that both
1:10:32um are in play here so the clearly
1:10:35erroneous finding of law or conclusion
1:10:39of law is that the temporary
1:10:41authorization process can be used when a
1:10:44facility has a modification request
1:10:47regardless of whether or not it is um
1:10:51required to rapidly um address a
1:10:54changing situation or some other such
1:10:57standard that requires it to happen
1:11:00quickly and the clearly erroneous
1:11:02finding effect fact is that this
1:11:06decision wasn't necessary before a um
1:11:09permit modification could be made
1:11:12because dtsc had already made a permit
1:11:15modific had already approved a permit
1:11:18modification I'm sorry because dtsc had
1:11:21already approved a class two per
1:11:23modification for the exact equipment
1:11:26that's an issue here and then there's
1:11:28the add-on point about an abusive
1:11:31discretion um and per dtsc permitting
1:11:35has abused its discretion by refusing to
1:11:37interpret the law and the facts in a way
1:11:40that is in accordance with the
1:11:41information that's in the
1:11:44record thank you for helping me with
1:11:46that it's
1:11:49uh I don't want to put words in
1:11:52anybody's mouth here but as I went
1:11:54through the materials and prepared for
1:11:55today as we look at the two key pieces
1:11:58of equipment associated with the do
1:12:00watering operation my understanding is
1:12:03they have been installed but not
1:12:05authorized to operate is that your
1:12:08understanding as well yes it is and that
1:12:10at some point in the tormented um
1:12:14sequence of events over the last many
1:12:16years at some point would your client
1:12:19and you represent that
1:12:21these pieces of
1:12:24equipment properly authorized need to be
1:12:26part of the operation that you don't
1:12:28object to the equipment per se you
1:12:30object to the manner in which this comes
1:12:32before us although this is not part of
1:12:35the record and I don't necessarily want
1:12:37to have a whole conversation a side
1:12:40conversation about that I will note that
1:12:42we have submitted extensive comments in
1:12:44the permitting process where we pointed
1:12:46out that this equipment that's being
1:12:48installed will not cannot and will not
1:12:51meet the um objectives that d TSC has
1:12:54stated for it so purportedly this
1:12:57equipment is going to be used to dry
1:12:59this material and that's going to be
1:13:01important moving forward am I getting
1:13:04too into the weeds this is a response to
1:13:06your question so purportedly is going to
1:13:08be used for this purpose of drying that
1:13:10material and that's going to be
1:13:11important for what needs to happen to
1:13:14the underlying
1:13:16floor
1:13:17but if you look at the permitting
1:13:20process that's happened and the way this
1:13:22has been set up
1:13:23We Believe two things first the permit
1:13:27draft permit which we've already
1:13:30commented on will allow quco to
1:13:34completely bypass using that equipment
1:13:37and still go along with this process and
1:13:39allow it to dump material on the floor
1:13:41today just like it has in the past so
1:13:44that's not helping and secondly we
1:13:47believe that this equipment is a peace
1:13:49smaling step on its way to remove the
1:13:52requirements that it um completely redo
1:13:56the underlying floor in its batch house
1:13:59and so for those reasons we have strong
1:14:01objections to this equipment as a
1:14:05solution as a purported solution to the
1:14:08problem that dtsc has um has identified
1:14:12at the facility I appreciate that you
1:14:15and I were asking a question of a larger
1:14:17scope than is before us today but I
1:14:19appreciate your explanation and we'll
1:14:20keep those separate thank you
1:14:24thank you for that Alexis um that floor
1:14:26has been on my mind as well so I'm sure
1:14:30uh we'll hear from everybody about that
1:14:32piece of it um and I think your
1:14:36reference back to the uh permit appeal
1:14:38officer
1:14:40btsc's um per and for those again who
1:14:44may not be as familiar in the past a
1:14:47person not related to the permitting
1:14:50division elsewhere in dtsc is designated
1:14:54by the director as the permit appeal
1:14:56officer who then reviews these so the
1:14:59permit appeal officer at dtsc who's not
1:15:03part of the permitting team per se they
1:15:06you know they they have different people
1:15:08that they tag for that big job works
1:15:11with attorneys and um in that instance
1:15:15uh Carl's Carl's statement in in denying
1:15:19the temporary
1:15:21authorization um you started to
1:15:26elaborate and I wish you would a little
1:15:28bit
1:15:29more what if anything is different now
1:15:33than was different in when that um
1:15:37temporary authorization was requested
1:15:39and I know dtsc will address that
1:15:42because they've expanded theirs but from
1:15:44your perspective because you've read all
1:15:46the briefs as well um how is it not
1:15:50different enough how is is DT T's exp
1:15:54explanation of of the difference uh meet
1:15:58meet you where does it meet you so if
1:16:00you could elaborate on that that would
1:16:01help me thank
1:16:07you just I'm just turning to the hermit
1:16:10appeals officer's decision so that I
1:16:12have it here in front of me and if you
1:16:15have it um in your binder it is at tab
1:16:1927 I'm sorry it's at tab 28
1:16:24okay I don't know I have tabs because
1:16:26that's the way I do it document 28 28
1:16:30right okay um so
1:16:35the the question that was before the
1:16:37permit appeals officer was whether or
1:16:40not it was proper to use the temporary
1:16:42authorization process to permit this
1:16:45equipment and there the temporary author
1:16:48the the permit appeals officer
1:16:51found basically two things that
1:16:55permitting and dtsc I'm sorry permitting
1:16:58and quco had failed to State clearly a
1:17:02rationale for why this needed to go
1:17:06through the temporary authorization
1:17:08process and I'll just note that um based
1:17:12on the entire application packet that
1:17:14had been submitted it wasn't that they
1:17:16said nothing about it but what they said
1:17:19was this needs to happen fast and the
1:17:22permitting Appeals officer rejected
1:17:24that the second thing that the per the
1:17:27second thing of relevance here is that
1:17:30the permitting appeals officer on page
1:17:34eight starting at line
1:17:39eight
1:17:43said considering that the
1:17:48facility considering that the facility
1:17:50has been placing hazardous waste
1:17:52containing free liquids on the floor of
1:17:54the containment building since at least
1:17:572001 kco has not explained why a
1:17:59temporary authorization is necessary for
1:18:02the addition of the new equipment the
1:18:04new miscellaneous units a temporary
1:18:07authorization should not replace a
1:18:09timely permit modification request
1:18:12that's still true they still been
1:18:15placing this material on the floor since
1:18:16200
1:18:172001 they still should be submitting a
1:18:20timely per permit um modification
1:18:23request and in fact because as you know
1:18:27this happened in January
1:18:292022 quos did submit that request so we
1:18:34don't have to speculate as the permanent
1:18:36appeals officer was doing then about how
1:18:38long would it take we know how long it
1:18:41would take because they did it they went
1:18:43to the process and they made that
1:18:45determination and that is still true so
1:18:49you know as I tell my children you can't
1:18:50change the past you can only change
1:18:52tomorrow and the same thing is true here
1:18:55I understand so that the the uh class
1:18:58two permit mod which which was withdrawn
1:19:02was also appealed it was and so the when
1:19:06they talk about timing and and I will
1:19:08ask them this as well so um permit mods
1:19:13take longer than temporary authorization
1:19:16right fullon permits take longer a mod 3
1:19:21takes even longer than a mod 2 because
1:19:23it's got public engagement component to
1:19:25it so um we're we're and we recognize
1:19:31that we we we don't have the authority
1:19:33to change that we can certainly make
1:19:35recommendations about that down the line
1:19:38but we will hear appeals however they
1:19:41come whether it's a temporary
1:19:44authorization a mod or a or a full-on
1:19:47permit and really can't um direct how it
1:19:52should have been done we can only
1:19:53respond to what's in front of us in
1:19:56terms of um why not why not why not go
1:20:01through the whole appeals process on the
1:20:03mod 2 of so that's the part that's
1:20:07confusing that that I'm hoping that all
1:20:09three parties will address because
1:20:11that's the part that that timeline which
1:20:13you've all got in your slides somewhere
1:20:15is the one that that throws us off a bit
1:20:18that says how did this happen this
1:20:21way well um
1:20:24um you don't have to direct them to go
1:20:27through the process we can't right you
1:20:30can't and you don't have to because they
1:20:32have they've already done it it's
1:20:34already happened you don't have to send
1:20:37them to do a thing because they've
1:20:39already done the thing so what you can
1:20:43do is you can interpret the
1:20:47regulation based on what it says on its
1:20:50on its face in its plain language
1:20:53the temporary authorization can be
1:20:55granted if and only if it's required for
1:20:59Action before a decision on a class two
1:21:03permit modification request right
1:21:05they've already done a class two permit
1:21:07modification request and it's already
1:21:09been acted upon I understand thank you
1:21:12for that uh I think we're close to time
1:21:15on key questions CMA has a question
1:21:17please
1:21:21do
1:21:25thank you can you hear me no I think you
1:21:28have to maybe hold it for a couple of
1:21:30seconds okay oh was it okay okay thank
1:21:34you Angela uh I appreciate in your
1:21:36opening you talked about how the issue
1:21:39in front of us is one of Integrity in
1:21:41the permit modification process so in
1:21:43that Spirit my question is is your
1:21:46assertion that if this issue had gone
1:21:49through a permit modification process
1:21:52then your clients would have had the
1:21:54opportunity to engage with dtsc and
1:21:57ketco to shape a different
1:22:01outcome well I can't claim what the
1:22:03outcome would be because that's outside
1:22:05of my control but we would have hoped to
1:22:08influence that process through our
1:22:10participation I think that that's baked
1:22:12into the rationale that dtsc comes to
1:22:15this whole entire permitting
1:22:18process dtsc has public participation
1:22:22because not only because it's
1:22:24objectively meaningful but also because
1:22:27they are looking to see what information
1:22:29is available they are engaging in a
1:22:32process that requires um critical
1:22:35analysis and multiple parties
1:22:37participating in that so but and what
1:22:39I'll add to that is they did go through
1:22:42a class two permit modification for this
1:22:44equipment our clients did participate in
1:22:47that
1:22:49process um it was adopted but it was
1:22:52granted by
1:22:53dtsc we appealed it and subsequently to
1:22:57that kco withdrew it arguing that they
1:23:00were doing so to
1:23:03address they can attribute in what they
1:23:06want but what they argue was to address
1:23:08issues that were raised in our appeal so
1:23:12our client's participation in that
1:23:15process did in fact have impacts on the
1:23:19determination and we believe that the
1:23:21comments that we've made in this last
1:23:23round of Permitting also will have an
1:23:25impact on the outcome of that so
1:23:28fundamentally I'm hearing you say that
1:23:30Community engagement looks different in
1:23:33a temporary
1:23:34authorization uh situation versus a
1:23:36permit modification in permit
1:23:38modification when your client was
1:23:39provided the opportunity to participate
1:23:41they did in the temporary authorization
1:23:43situation you were noticed but you
1:23:45didn't have the opportunity to
1:23:46participate exactly no opportunity to
1:23:49participate we just received a notice
1:23:51that it was happening and so we
1:23:52participated in that first temporary
1:23:54authorization process by appealing it
1:23:56and the permanent appeals officer
1:23:58granted our appeal because our claim was
1:24:02correct thank you thank you all right
1:24:04thank you and Lizette you have a
1:24:06question
1:24:10now this is lazette Ruiz just to be
1:24:14clear you believe that the ability for
1:24:17the public to participate made a
1:24:20difference in the outcome of the the the
1:24:23public um participation through the
1:24:24public participation process of the mod
1:24:272 and and and if so in what way yes we
1:24:32we believe that it did we believe that
1:24:35public participation made a difference
1:24:38for the for the permit process um I
1:24:42think you're asking only about the class
1:24:44two process now so in the class two
1:24:47process it um there's two bits to this
1:24:51first public participation transparency
1:24:54and engagement to Frontline communities
1:24:56who are impacted by things that happen
1:24:58into their Community is in and of itself
1:25:01an important objective that should
1:25:03always be included if not centered in
1:25:07decisions that are made by state
1:25:09agencies about important things like the
1:25:11management of hazardous waste so for
1:25:14principles that are far larger than
1:25:17simply the outcome on this permit
1:25:19permitting I'm sorry participation by
1:25:22the Community is critically important
1:25:24the second bit is the outcome of the
1:25:26actual determination the actual permit
1:25:29that was before it so our participa
1:25:32through our participation we were able
1:25:34to raise a number of issues we were able
1:25:37to identify a number of concerns and
1:25:41ultimately uh the permit class two
1:25:44permit decision was
1:25:46withdrawn um rather than continue
1:25:49through the appeals process you'd have
1:25:52to speak to them about how they made
1:25:55that assessment but what they said in
1:25:57their papers was it was because of our
1:26:01appeal thank you okay thank you uh I
1:26:05think we're at time and I think we've
1:26:07all of us have George give you last last
1:26:11chance okay thank you very much for that
1:26:13we'll see you again later in the
1:26:18hearing okay so now I'm not is it just
1:26:21the two of you presenting okay so next
1:26:25up will be um
1:26:31pardon okay since we have a lot of new
1:26:34guests in very happy to see you all
1:26:36thank you for coming um we ask you to
1:26:39turn your Wi-Fi off um we're having a
1:26:42really hard time with access so please
1:26:44don't use Wi-Fi if you if you can use a
1:26:47hotspot if you've got another device
1:26:49that would be great but um the the less
1:26:52traffic on the Wi-Fi the more likely we
1:26:54are to see all the presentations and not
1:26:57be interrupted so thank you and again
1:26:59thank you all for uh for coming all
1:27:02right now uh Wayne
1:27:04Loren um who is the permitting Division
1:27:07division manager and Leah white senior
1:27:10counsel
1:27:16welcome what I
1:27:21say
1:27:30thank you madam chair and members of the
1:27:32board for the opportunity to speak and
1:27:34present to you today my name is Leo
1:27:36white I'm senior Council for the
1:27:38Department of toxic substances control
1:27:40representing the permitting division um
1:27:42I joined today by Wayne lorensen the
1:27:45permitting division manager who will be
1:27:46speaking later in this presentation
1:27:49today we'll be presenting dtc's
1:27:51permitting division's arguments about
1:27:53why dtc's issuance of the July 22nd 2022
1:27:58temporary authorization was proper
1:28:01should be upheld and that this appeal
1:28:03should ultimately be
1:28:09denied so I'm going to go through
1:28:11briefly our presentation overview and um
1:28:14the key points we'll be discussing um as
1:28:16has been touched on earlier by other
1:28:18presenters uh we will be discussing the
1:28:21standard of review
1:28:22and what the standard review is is the
1:28:24burden that must be met in order for the
1:28:27board to be eligible and able to uphold
1:28:30the appeal that has been brought forward
1:28:32today next we will be talking about the
1:28:35temporary authorization equipment itself
1:28:38and explaining what the two
1:28:39miscellaneous units proposed in the
1:28:41temporary authorization um are supposed
1:28:44to do and why they provide valuable
1:28:46functions third we will be discussing
1:28:49what a temporary authorization is and
1:28:51its unique functions in contrast to a
1:28:53permit and walk through how it works as
1:28:56a tool and why it was appropriate in
1:28:59July of 20122 and why it may not be
1:29:01applicable in the current facts of today
1:29:04fourth we will be discussing the
1:29:05historical permit appeal compliance
1:29:07issue which has been um discussed
1:29:09earlier from the previous dtsc permit
1:29:12appeals officer decision before the
1:29:15Inception of the board and finally in
1:29:18conclusion we will be discussing why all
1:29:20the facts uh present today support
1:29:23btsc's decision that it made in July of
1:29:262022 when it issued this temporary
1:29:29authorization and ultimately that this
1:29:31appeal should be
1:29:37denied so as I mentioned the standard of
1:29:39review lays out when the board can
1:29:41reverse a decision dtsc made and in this
1:29:46case the board uh's own regulation
1:29:49specifically lay out that the standard
1:29:51of review is set forth in California
1:29:53code of
1:29:54regulations Section 66
1:29:5827172 C1 and in that spot it states that
1:30:02only when there is a clearly erroneous
1:30:05finding of fact or conclusion of law can
1:30:08the board find that
1:30:10dtc's decision was an error and that the
1:30:13appeal can be
1:30:14upheld this is in line with California
1:30:18law and how many other boards across the
1:30:20state view decisions of the nature and
1:30:22that deference is given to staff that
1:30:25have technical expertise and are able to
1:30:28provide um guidance to the agency that
1:30:31made the decision and so boards are able
1:30:34to use their expertise and rely on them
1:30:37by giving that difference so in this
1:30:39case that would be dtc's permitting
1:30:42staff um this is also evident in the
1:30:45board's own rulemaking package there was
1:30:48discussion about what standard should be
1:30:51applied and there was um discussion
1:30:54about the fact that a deferential
1:30:56standard was deliberately chosen to
1:30:58acknowledge the dtsc permitting staff's
1:31:00deep technical knowledge because of the
1:31:02highly complex and Technical nature of
1:31:05the permitting regulatory scheme
1:31:07specific to the hazardous
1:31:09waste so under a clearly erroneous
1:31:12standard of review it's recognized by
1:31:14the Supreme Court and USV us Gibson Co
1:31:18that a finding is clearly eron when the
1:31:21reviewing court is left with the
1:31:23definite and firm conviction that a
1:31:24mistake has been committed in other
1:31:27words there can be no doubt in the
1:31:29board's mind that permitting was wrong
1:31:31and made a mistake and that's the
1:31:33standard of review we're operating with
1:31:35today at today's hearing so
1:31:39unless cleaner Coalition represented by
1:31:42Earth Justice today can show that a
1:31:45mistake was made the default decision in
1:31:47any appeal is that dtc's decision should
1:31:51be upheld and the appeal should be
1:31:53denied um clean air Coalition Bears the
1:31:56burden of showing that the clearly
1:31:58erroneous finding of fact or conclusion
1:32:00of law occurred if they cannot make that
1:32:03demonstration to the satisfaction of the
1:32:05board and give conviction that a mistake
1:32:08did occur then the clearly as erroneous
1:32:10standard can't be met and the permit
1:32:12should be
1:32:16denied so in the circumstances today
1:32:20looking at the temporary authorization
1:32:22that we are um discussing for the appeal
1:32:26the key takeaways of looking at this is
1:32:28that dtc's decision was
1:32:31reasonable it was supported by evidence
1:32:34and it was not clearly
1:32:36erroneous the fact that DTC was looking
1:32:39at its decision it's important to
1:32:40remember that this decision occurred in
1:32:42July of 2022 and as there has been
1:32:45previous discussion that circumstances
1:32:47outside of this actual temporary
1:32:49authorization and you know anything
1:32:52present now is is less relevant and the
1:32:54decision that was made was made at the
1:32:56time um back in the summer of
1:32:592022 um cleaner
1:33:03Coalition hasn't been able to find fault
1:33:05with any of these key issues and So
1:33:07based on the applicable laws and facts
1:33:09their appeal is
1:33:12unsupported so now I'm going to transfer
1:33:14it over to Wayne Lorenson and he will be
1:33:16speaking on the temporary authorization
1:33:17and Equipment
1:33:20further
1:33:22thank you Leah and thank you
1:33:27Wayne and thank you Leah chair Rizzo
1:33:30members of the board I'd like to show
1:33:33some pictures to give everyone some
1:33:37context about the equipment and the
1:33:39temporary
1:33:41authorization the compression augur and
1:33:43the centrifuge this is not a picture of
1:33:46the equipment installed at eoat but it
1:33:48might be useful for some who would like
1:33:50to know what a compression augur is and
1:33:53what it
1:33:54does the purpose of a compression augur
1:33:58is to remove liquids from wet materials
1:34:00by compressing them and separating the
1:34:03liquids imagine coffee grounds from your
1:34:06coffee maker or a French press going
1:34:08through this equipment on the on the
1:34:11slide the screw conveyor the spiraly
1:34:14thing applies pressure to the ground
1:34:16sending it through this upper area where
1:34:19the holes surrounding the shaft allow
1:34:21the liquids to
1:34:23escape at eoat instead of coffee grounds
1:34:27of course we're talking about the
1:34:28contents of shredded car batteries which
1:34:31is a hazardous waste eoat runs a machine
1:34:34that shreds car batteries and then
1:34:37separates the shredded plastic casings
1:34:40from the shredded contents of the
1:34:42batteries so the plastic casings would
1:34:44not go through this but the shredded
1:34:46contents of the inside of the batteries
1:34:49would that material has liquids in it
1:34:52including battery acid eoat requested
1:34:56authorization to send that material
1:34:58through a compression augur such as this
1:35:01one to remove the liquids from the
1:35:03material before they pile it up on the
1:35:10floor this slide shows a graphical
1:35:13depiction of a
1:35:14centrifuge only meant to convey the
1:35:17concept your dryer at home or your salad
1:35:20spinner
1:35:22in your kitchen are good examples of
1:35:24centrifuge equipment that many of us
1:35:26routinely use at home materials with
1:35:29liquid such as washed clothes or freshly
1:35:33rinsed lettuce are spun in a container
1:35:35like a clothes dryer or a salad spinner
1:35:39to apply centrifugal forces to the
1:35:42material which allows liquids to be
1:35:45separated from the solids eoat requested
1:35:49authorization to send that same material
1:35:51the shredded battery contents through a
1:35:54centrifuge to remove the liquids before
1:35:56they place it on the floor both pieces
1:35:59of equipment remove liquids from the
1:36:01shredded battery
1:36:10contents this slide shows the specific
1:36:12equipment that dtsc approved through the
1:36:15temporary authorization which is the
1:36:17subject of this appeal and these are not
1:36:19so great pictures but they do show the
1:36:22actual equipment inside of Ecco bat and
1:36:24they're offered for demonstration only
1:36:27they're not offered as
1:36:30evidence the equipment on the left is
1:36:32the compression
1:36:34augur and the equipment on the right is
1:36:36the
1:36:37centrifuge the purpose of this slide is
1:36:39to show you the actual equipment
1:36:41installed at ecob bat these are around
1:36:44the compression auger is 20t long just
1:36:47to give you an idea of dimensions and
1:36:50the centrifuge us is about 5 ft
1:36:53long although both pieces of equipment
1:36:57were installed before the appeal and the
1:37:00stay was issued these are not currently
1:37:03operating this equipment cannot operate
1:37:07in fact without authorization from dtsc
1:37:10because they are both used to treat
1:37:12hazardous waste which is the shredded
1:37:14battery
1:37:18contents these are a couple of pictures
1:37:21from inside ecob bat's containment
1:37:23building and again these are also
1:37:25offered for demonstration purposes these
1:37:28come from inspection reports they're not
1:37:30offered as
1:37:31evidence the containment building has a
1:37:34footprint just so you have an idea of
1:37:36how large this building is of 26,000
1:37:39square feet which is just a little less
1:37:42than half the area of a football field
1:37:46in these pictures you can see piles of
1:37:48the shredded battery contents and
1:37:51liquids seeping from the bottom of the
1:37:54piles dtsc cited eoat for violations in
1:37:58this building associated with the batch
1:38:01house
1:38:02floor the ground you see in these
1:38:04pictures is the batch house floor dtsc
1:38:07directed ecob to fix this floor by
1:38:10submitting plans for dtsc approval to
1:38:13replace it dtsc also directed eoat to
1:38:17remove the liquids from the floor until
1:38:20the floor is repl
1:38:21placed eoat submitted the request to
1:38:24operate the compression augur and the
1:38:27centrifuge to minimize the liquids in
1:38:30these piles and dtsc approved the
1:38:33request in the temporary
1:38:36authorization this is a clear
1:38:38Improvement to the operations and a
1:38:41clear benefit to protect human health in
1:38:44the
1:38:48environment and I just have a little bit
1:38:51say about temporary authorizations what
1:38:52are they go into a little bit of history
1:38:55of them temporary authorization as chair
1:38:59Rizzo indicated at the beginning of the
1:39:01meeting is not the permit renewal
1:39:03decision and it has nothing to do with
1:39:05the permit renewal decision uscpa
1:39:08developed temporary
1:39:10authorizations as a tool for issuing
1:39:13authorizations quickly for changes to
1:39:16improve the management of hazardous
1:39:19wastes in the federal Reg register uscpa
1:39:22explains their rationale for approving
1:39:24the tool by saying the
1:39:27following they say agency issued
1:39:30temporary authorizations are intended to
1:39:34allow facilities to respond rapidly to
1:39:37changing conditions and to enhance the
1:39:40Environmental Protection at the
1:39:42site there are allegations before you
1:39:45that dtsc was attempting to circumvent
1:39:48the public process by issuing the tempor
1:39:52authorization and I just want to read
1:39:54you an excerpt from the Federal Register
1:39:56from September of 1988 when uscpa took
1:40:00public comments before adopting this
1:40:04temporary authorization
1:40:06tool uscpa said one commenter was
1:40:11generally opposed because of a lack of
1:40:14public comment and
1:40:16hearings EPA disagrees because the use
1:40:20of temporary authorizations is allowed
1:40:23only for specified purposes which are
1:40:25intended to improve the management of
1:40:28hazardous waste or respond to a critical
1:40:36situation so dtsc used this tool out as
1:40:40it was intended to be used to approve
1:40:43equipment that addressed enforcement
1:40:45actions within ecobac that were designed
1:40:48to protect people and the environment
1:40:52we made the right decision here it was
1:40:54clearly not
1:40:56erroneous and and I'll move on to the
1:40:59second bullet point about uscpa
1:41:07delegation uscpa delegates the authority
1:41:10to make these decisions and issue
1:41:12temporary authorizations on behalf of
1:41:15the federal government USA delegates
1:41:18that authority to dtc's permitting
1:41:21vision and we take it very seriously we
1:41:24are responsible to the federal
1:41:26government and hold ourselves
1:41:27accountable with that
1:41:30delegation states such as California are
1:41:33authorized to develop their own rules
1:41:35and regulations but they can never be
1:41:38less stringent than the federal
1:41:40regulations in California we do have our
1:41:43own regulations and they are
1:41:46different one pertinent example is the
1:41:49appeals process for temporary
1:41:51authorizations uscpa considered
1:41:54requiring an appeal period for these
1:41:56authorizations but when they finalized
1:41:59their rules in 1988 this is what they
1:42:01wrote in the Federal
1:42:04Register agency issued temporary
1:42:07authorizations are intended to allow
1:42:10facilities to respond rapidly to
1:42:12changing conditions and to enhance
1:42:15Environmental Protection at the site
1:42:18because Swift action is essential for
1:42:20these authorizations and since they will
1:42:23only allow operation for a maximum of
1:42:26180 days andless a permanent permit
1:42:30modification has also been requested EPA
1:42:34believes that appeals procedures cannot
1:42:37be integrated into the temporary
1:42:39authorization process without
1:42:41undermining the fundamental purpose of
1:42:43such
1:42:45authorizations this is important because
1:42:48we do have an appeals process in
1:42:49California but the effect of our
1:42:51authorizations cannot be less stringent
1:42:54than the Federal Regulations
1:42:57require Federal reg regulations are
1:42:59clear on the provision for temporary
1:43:01authorizations they set clear boundaries
1:43:04they require a fixed term of not more of
1:43:06than 180 days they don't refer to
1:43:10restrictions on the permit e they
1:43:12instead Place restrictions on the body
1:43:14issuing the
1:43:16authorization they use the term director
1:43:19which means the director of the deleg
1:43:20ated state agency or an authorized
1:43:23representative which is permitting this
1:43:25is what the Federal Regulations require
1:43:28it says upon request of the permittee
1:43:31the director May without prior public
1:43:33notice and comment Grant the permittee a
1:43:36temporary authorization in accordance
1:43:38with this subsection temporary
1:43:41authorizations must have a term of not
1:43:44more than 180
1:43:47days and EPA provides some context for
1:43:50the ration now in the Federal Register
1:43:52they say it is not appropriate for these
1:43:55decisions to be postponed for up to a
1:43:58year and a half for these reasons
1:44:01today's rule does not allow extension of
1:44:03a temporary authorization for a class
1:44:05two activity except through the class
1:44:08two procedures that are leading to an
1:44:10agency decision on the modification
1:44:13request that is why our temporary
1:44:15authorization was fixed for a 180 day
1:44:18period there is an urg to address the
1:44:21batch house floor issues and the liquids
1:44:24in the waste piles you saw in the
1:44:26earlier slides the path to provide
1:44:28further authorization for the equipment
1:44:31would be through a permit decision
1:44:33either the process of permit
1:44:34modification for the current permit or
1:44:37issue a draft permit
1:44:39decision that is why we are prioritizing
1:44:42a draft permit decision for
1:44:45eoat the upcoming permit decision will
1:44:48address both of these issues when
1:44:50whether we deny the permit application
1:44:52or issue a draft permit for public
1:44:55comment and based on the boundaries
1:44:58established for those authorizations it
1:45:00would be unlikely for us to issue a new
1:45:03isolated
1:45:05authorization we are focused on the
1:45:07permit
1:45:09decision but we're not here today for a
1:45:11permit decision we're here to provide
1:45:13you with considerations for your
1:45:16decision on the appeal about whether
1:45:17permitting authorization was clearly
1:45:19erroneous
1:45:24this is the text of the relevant part of
1:45:26the regulations for making a decision
1:45:28about the temporary authorization I've
1:45:30added the check boxes that dtsc has to
1:45:33meet and and uh your staff brilliantly
1:45:38has already gone through this so I'm
1:45:40going to cut to the chase to the third
1:45:42section in C5 there are five OB
1:45:46objectives listed there but in C yes we
1:45:49found with certain that the temporary
1:45:51authorization would be necessary to
1:45:53facilitate other changes to protect
1:45:56human health in the environment why
1:45:58because authorizing the compression
1:45:59augur and the centrifuge most certainly
1:46:02protect human health in the environment
1:46:04by removing the liquids from the
1:46:06shredded battery contents before they
1:46:08they are even placed on the
1:46:11floor and most certainly our
1:46:13authorization was in place before we
1:46:15could take any action on a permanent
1:46:17modification or a permanent decision at
1:46:20at that time this is the only piece of
1:46:23the criteria that is issued today in
1:46:26order for the appeal to be successful
1:46:28you must find that dtsc made a mistake
1:46:31here I submit to you today that no
1:46:34mistakes were made this is a clear
1:46:36benefit that protects people and we made
1:46:39this this decision without
1:46:41error the board should deny the petition
1:46:44for appeal and now I'll turn it back to
1:46:46Leah for a quick one minute wrap
1:46:49up
1:46:53um so I want to touch base really
1:46:56quickly about the historical permit
1:46:57appeal compliance um when there was a
1:47:00Perman appeals officer and the
1:47:04initial temporary authorization that
1:47:06they reviewed before the Inception of
1:47:08the board and I think it's just really
1:47:09important to be clear that dtsc did
1:47:14comply with that order in the issuance
1:47:17of the temporary authorization that we
1:47:19are discussing today
1:47:21um the permanent appeal officer's
1:47:24decision solely focused on a procedural
1:47:27issue stating that there was the
1:47:29insufficient explanation as to why the
1:47:31temporary authorization was necessary
1:47:33and dtsc remedied that issue and in its
1:47:37July 2022 order it summarized the order
1:47:41and explained the importance of the
1:47:43equipment and why the rapid response was
1:47:45needed thank you
1:47:48Leah did you have are
1:47:52you I think we're yeah we understand
1:47:56we'll catch you on questions okay uh
1:47:58board members any we'll start down there
1:48:02Georgette or
1:48:04Suma
1:48:05okay uh thank you Leah thank you V uh
1:48:09Leah you started by talking about how
1:48:11deference is given to staff with
1:48:14expertise in interpreting how to apply
1:48:17the standard can you spend a minute or
1:48:21half a minute talking quickly about what
1:48:23is the expertise
1:48:25specifically sure so dtsc staff and dtsc
1:48:29permitting Spa staff specifically are um
1:48:32you know scientists that have extensive
1:48:34background and training specific to
1:48:36hazardous waste and the management of
1:48:38hazardous waste in a variety of areas
1:48:40you know there's Engineers there's
1:48:41geologists there's there's all sorts of
1:48:43different um branches of science of
1:48:46expertise so when I was talking about
1:48:48difference I was talking talking about
1:48:50the technical staff but it's also just
1:48:52giving deference to the agency as a
1:48:54whole recognizing that staff at dtsc or
1:48:57any other agency has that expertise that
1:49:00they are developed and they are hired to
1:49:03provide that service to the state of
1:49:04California and provide that opportunity
1:49:07for you as the board here or any other
1:49:09board to rely on so what I'm hearing you
1:49:12say is that dtsc has expertise in
1:49:15evaluating say Alternatives and best
1:49:18available control technology but they
1:49:21may not necessarily have the expertise
1:49:23in deciding whether or not Community
1:49:25engagement may be helpful in driving or
1:49:28shaping the
1:49:29outcome well I would say that a
1:49:32temporary authorization as was discussed
1:49:33before you know there's a very different
1:49:35standard applied for public
1:49:37participation laid out in the
1:49:38regulations and we as an agency are
1:49:40obligated to follow what's in the regs
1:49:42which don't besides of public notice
1:49:44have a requirement for a temporary
1:49:46authorization I'm not sure if that
1:49:48answered your question thank
1:49:51you Liz do you have
1:49:54anything
1:49:56Georgette oh you're not done okay all
1:49:59right you guys okay I I have one more
1:50:03question uh I think this might be for
1:50:05Wayne uh can you speak a little bit
1:50:08about when you would deny a temporary
1:50:12authorization certainly yeah when when
1:50:14the criteria are not met it would not be
1:50:18denied temporary authorizations are made
1:50:20for Clear it's almost like a no-brainer
1:50:23like yes yes we want to give you this
1:50:26authorization so that you can improve
1:50:29the uh management of hazardous waste at
1:50:31the facility it's got to be a clear
1:50:33benefit to improving operations
1:50:35otherwise it doesn't meet the criteria
1:50:38for The Fifth Element in there there are
1:50:40other yeah then we would deny if there
1:50:43if it wasn't a clear benefit than we
1:50:45would deny it so you have denied
1:50:47temporary authorization requests in the
1:50:49past uh um I don't I I'm I didn't I
1:50:52didn't come prepared to I I don't have
1:50:55that history on me we don't get a lot of
1:50:57temporary authorization requests they're
1:50:59rare um but I don't I don't have that
1:51:02knowledge in my head right now about our
1:51:05history sorry I have one more
1:51:09question we've heard a lot about I think
1:51:12from you about the purpose of the
1:51:15temporary authorization mechanism and
1:51:17how it was created to enable rapid
1:51:19response to changing conditions can you
1:51:23help us understand what was the need
1:51:25what created the need to act now given
1:51:28that the situation was in play since
1:51:312001 I mean well our so our enforcement
1:51:34team went in and found violations in
1:51:36that building the batch house floor is
1:51:38something that's still at issue today it
1:51:41needs to be remedied and that that's why
1:51:43we're focusing on the permit decision
1:51:46but both that they're kind of coupled
1:51:48together the temporary authorization
1:51:50uh gave a way to quickly allow the
1:51:53facility to remove those liquids from
1:51:56the piles before they were even placed
1:51:58on the floor in that batch house okay so
1:52:02the the aqua standing liquids were on
1:52:04the floor since maybe 2001 2016 was when
1:52:08you did the enforcement activity but the
1:52:10temporary operation request came in 200
1:52:1421 first and then
1:52:1522 what happened in 22 that created this
1:52:19need for a
1:52:21response um well I mean the need to get
1:52:25the liquids off of the floor there are
1:52:29uh there are the enforcement and the
1:52:31settlement agreement stuff that's not a
1:52:33part of this appeal hearing but you know
1:52:35there were a lot of elements during that
1:52:37time that we've had a lot of public
1:52:38meetings and public input on we've been
1:52:42uh engaging with the public on uh
1:52:44providing information about what we were
1:52:46doing during those periods of times and
1:52:49what we found
1:52:50and so I would say that the sense of
1:52:52urgency in
1:52:542022 was to get those liquids off of the
1:52:57floor in a quick way I mean that that's
1:53:00the whole purpose of a temporary
1:53:02authorization doing that we recognize
1:53:04that a permanent modification is
1:53:06necessary for a permanent change to a uh
1:53:11an existing permit but that takes time
1:53:14to go through um and that's the beauty
1:53:18about the temporary authorization allows
1:53:20a quick solution while you're figuring
1:53:23out the other temp the other uh permit
1:53:26modification request so what I'm hearing
1:53:28you say is since the enforcement
1:53:30activity visit in 2016 there's been a
1:53:33sense of urgency ongoing
1:53:36urgency but in 2021 or 22 a solution
1:53:40became available like what happened or
1:53:42the permit holder came with a request
1:53:44and you were like yes well act now I
1:53:48mean there were of course there were uh
1:53:51there was a lot of enforcement
1:53:53activities taking place during those
1:53:55times so for permitting the opportunity
1:53:58that came up for uh for this uh problem
1:54:04was that eoat submitted a request to
1:54:08include authorization for equipment that
1:54:11would address the violations that were
1:54:14ongoing at that
1:54:18time
1:54:20I hope that's
1:54:23responsible sorry this thing is really
1:54:25heavy to move um I'm gonna follow on on
1:54:29the questions because I'm not clear 2016
1:54:33there's a
1:54:35violation there's public comment that
1:54:39there's Community engagement from 2016
1:54:41to
1:54:452022 that created this emergency that's
1:54:49six
1:54:50years
1:54:52that
1:54:53so just to be clear dtsc does not dtsc
1:54:58didn't initiate the temporary
1:55:00authorization eoat requested the
1:55:03temporary authorization from dtsc as a
1:55:06way to resolve violations associated
1:55:10with the batch house floor understood
1:55:12but you granted that process as a
1:55:15temporary
1:55:17process I'm trying to I'm trying I'm
1:55:20still trying to understand that and
1:55:22that's one of the reasons that we
1:55:25challenge the temporary aspect of of
1:55:28this whole situation versus the regular
1:55:30path so just trying to understand that
1:55:32and I'm not hearing anything that so the
1:55:35regular path would have been and would
1:55:39need to be now a request for a permanent
1:55:43modification or a decision on the permit
1:55:46renewal application both of those things
1:55:51address both issues the batch house
1:55:53floor and the liquids on the batch house
1:55:56floor at that time in July of
1:55:592022 we were not prepared to issue a
1:56:02draft permit renewal decision and so a
1:56:05temporary authorization was appropriate
1:56:08at that time because you were not
1:56:10prepared to do it well I mean it gave us
1:56:12the opportunity to allow them to operate
1:56:15the equipment and get that the Hazardous
1:56:18liquids off of the floor
1:56:20to protect the community and the
1:56:22environment that that was the purpose of
1:56:25this but now we're prepared to make a
1:56:28permit decision and so it is not
1:56:30appropriate it wouldn't be appropriate
1:56:33now for a temporary authorization
1:56:35because we're ready to go out with a
1:56:37permanent decision that addresses those
1:56:40issues I hope that makes sense it
1:56:42doesn't I'm sorry so why not 2022 create
1:56:46that process as a regular I'm not
1:56:48understanding
1:56:50is it because you weren't prepared
1:56:51stepwise I I think part of it Wayne feel
1:56:55free to jump back in is the permit
1:56:57renewal
1:56:59process um is there's a lot of technical
1:57:02detail and it takes quite a long time
1:57:05internally on dtsc side and all of that
1:57:08so um I think what you're what does that
1:57:10mean it takes time is time but what does
1:57:13that mean takes a year two years because
1:57:17it took four years to conclude there's
1:57:19an emergency and we should take this
1:57:22temporary process yeah I
1:57:25mean it didn't take us four years to
1:57:28conclude that because there were ongoing
1:57:30enforcement violations right I mean
1:57:33there were it was ongoing enforcement
1:57:36activities the the point of the regular
1:57:39process taking a long time is that there
1:57:42are we follow rules associated with
1:57:46reviewing permit modifications we don't
1:57:49just get to make up the rules there are
1:57:51procedures in place there are practices
1:57:54there are certain elements that we need
1:57:55submittals for permanent modifications
1:57:58from all of that material takes a a long
1:58:01time to process class two mods usually
1:58:04take around six months at least six
1:58:07months to process class three mods can
1:58:10take many
1:58:12years okay um and
1:58:16then I I'm just trying to
1:58:20understand so the
1:58:24dtc's appeals officer that concluded
1:58:28this right
1:58:31um and and one of the on on on one of
1:58:35the reasons was and I'm going to read it
1:58:37again I think
1:58:39uh uh Angela read it earlier but
1:58:43considering that the facility has been
1:58:45placing hazardous waste containing free
1:58:48liquids on the floor of the containment
1:58:52building since at least
1:58:542001 kco has not explained why the
1:58:57temporary author authorization is
1:58:59necessary for the addition of the two
1:59:02new miscellaneous units therefore a
1:59:06temporary authorization should not
1:59:09replace a timely permitting modification
1:59:12request so I'm just still I'm I'm I'm
1:59:17still not moving be on that what's
1:59:20different maybe I can explain one thing
1:59:22and then I'll I'll give it to Leah to
1:59:24explain the uh fills officer piece but a
1:59:28containment building is designed for PE
1:59:31for businesses to to do this to take
1:59:35piles of uh with liquids in it and place
1:59:38it on the floor that's what a
1:59:39containment building is there are clear
1:59:42standards for containment buildings that
1:59:45eoat has problems with that's why there
1:59:49are problems with their batch house
1:59:51floor but a containment building allows
1:59:54businesses to place piles of waste
1:59:59hazardous waste with liquids in it
2:00:01that's what they're designed for so I I
2:00:04mean I hope we're not uh creating the
2:00:07impression that that is not an allowed
2:00:10procedure it is not allowed for ecob bat
2:00:12because they have violations for their
2:00:14batch house floor that's why it's
2:00:16inappropriate and then for the appeals
2:00:18officer
2:00:20um following your question Georgia and
2:00:23referring to um where Angela had pointed
2:00:27to in the order so that's in the
2:00:29discussion where the permanent appeals
2:00:31officer is talking about it on the next
2:00:33page on page nine there's conclusion for
2:00:36appeal comment one and and in that spot
2:00:39is really where the the ultimate
2:00:42conclusion is reached by the permanent
2:00:44appeals officer which was what I very
2:00:46quickly touched on in my slide of saying
2:00:50that the denial and the reason that the
2:00:53permanent appeals officer um invalidated
2:00:56that temporary authorization was because
2:00:58they said there was an insufficient
2:01:00explanation provided as to you know the
2:01:03the nature and why there was an urgency
2:01:05and so in the temporary authorization
2:01:07that we're talking about now the new one
2:01:10um that was addressed in dtc's decision
2:01:14and as part of that we really tried to
2:01:15summarize this order and that it did
2:01:18comply we specifically called out
2:01:20providing that explanation to help make
2:01:23try to make it clear for um you know
2:01:26everyone involv the facility and the
2:01:28public does that help okay yeah thank
2:01:32you
2:01:42yeah um yeah I have a couple of
2:01:44questions myself um just going back on
2:01:48the urgency of getting these Lookouts
2:01:50off of the um batch house floor um this
2:01:53is due to um you know the various
2:01:55notices of violation um is installing
2:01:59this equipment the best way to do that
2:02:03in your opinion is is this
2:02:06why you guys approved this temporary
2:02:08authorization did you guys deem or did
2:02:10you was there discussion about any other
2:02:13uh way to to to meet that um that
2:02:17goal
2:02:20I mean what so there are probably a
2:02:24number of different ways that you can
2:02:26address removing liquids from those
2:02:29piles right there's other pieces of
2:02:31equipment that you could use there's
2:02:32other Technologies but what was
2:02:35submitted to us as a request from ecob
2:02:39was an a request to allow them to
2:02:42operate that equipment we can't tell
2:02:44eoat you need to go you need to give us
2:02:47an application to do this to install
2:02:50this piece of of equipment that's not
2:02:52how requests for authorization work they
2:02:55come to us and they ask us if they if
2:02:58they can operate certain pieces of
2:03:00equipment and then we make a decision
2:03:02about whether yes or no it meets all the
2:03:04standards in chapter 14 it's appropriate
2:03:07it protects human health in the
2:03:08environment and then we make a decision
2:03:10about whether to approve it or deny it
2:03:12so there in theory there could be
2:03:14different ways to to to to do this
2:03:17absolutely and and uh what I'm having a
2:03:20difficult time understanding is why then
2:03:26just take the
2:03:28first um idea that comes to mind why
2:03:33circumvent the public review process
2:03:36when there can be that discussion about
2:03:39whether or not this is the best approach
2:03:42because for us this was it it was
2:03:45clearly a benefit this was a clear
2:03:48Improvement of managing the waste at the
2:03:50facility to get the LI the idea of you
2:03:53know the liquids in the piles is the
2:03:56problem because the liquids eventually
2:03:58seep out of the piles if you have a pile
2:04:01of wet clothes you're going to get
2:04:02liquids all over the place right so I
2:04:05have a lot of questions even about that
2:04:07about this equipment the validity of the
2:04:09equipment um why was the equipment
2:04:12already installed is it common practice
2:04:14for for that to already be done without
2:04:17going through this process the equipment
2:04:19was installed after we issued a
2:04:21temporary authorization there was a
2:04:23period of time where the authorization
2:04:26was in effect until an appeal was filed
2:04:29and it was stayed so they had
2:04:31authorization to install and operate
2:04:34that equipment for a short period of
2:04:36time and so considering that the the
2:04:39equipment is already installed and I
2:04:40know we're not talking about the
2:04:41settlement agreement but why wasn't the
2:04:45equipment included in the settlement
2:04:48agreement if if because to me you know
2:04:51there's an understanding that there's
2:04:52already some sort of release or possible
2:04:55release beneath the batch house I don't
2:04:59understand
2:05:00how that release will be remediated with
2:05:04equipment
2:05:05already set there okay yeah so the batch
2:05:09house floor that's a bigger problem the
2:05:11batch house floor this doesn't resolve
2:05:13that problem this just gets the liquids
2:05:16off of the floor so in the in the um
2:05:19enforcement activities the violations
2:05:21that were cited enforcement told them to
2:05:24fix the batch house floor and provided a
2:05:27pathway to do that and then the second
2:05:29thing they did was to tell them to
2:05:31resolve the free liquids manage the free
2:05:35liquids in the containment building so
2:05:37there are two different
2:05:39issues the two pieces of equipment here
2:05:42did not resolve the batch house floor
2:05:44issue that's a much bigger issue and
2:05:46that's why we're prioritizing permit
2:05:50decision and
2:05:53so and I guess that's a question that I
2:05:56I'll I'll have for for for ecob in the
2:05:58future but has was there a concern
2:06:01brought up of you know equipment failure
2:06:04like what if you know is there a plan B
2:06:06for for this equipment to not work and
2:06:10and for the continuation of you know
2:06:12possibly having more liquid
2:06:16accumulate um yeah good question
2:06:19I mean so uh if they're operating the
2:06:22equipment they have the authorization to
2:06:24run the material through it but if the I
2:06:28mean quite honestly if the machines were
2:06:31not
2:06:32operating that that's where we're at
2:06:35today those liquids are being piled up
2:06:38on the floor in that containment
2:06:40building and that that's why that those
2:06:42pieces of equipment resolve the issue um
2:06:46are they
2:06:49I I don't fully understand the question
2:06:51about if they break I'm trying to think
2:06:54through that can can you elaborate on
2:06:55the question a little bit more I'm just
2:06:57having a hard time figuring out what the
2:06:59secondary containment would be for these
2:07:01pieces of equipment I understand that
2:07:05um through the settlement there is a
2:07:09mandated a mandate through Court to
2:07:12provide secondary containment in that
2:07:14floor okay um yeah and so it it I I just
2:07:19I'm having a hard time understanding how
2:07:22this
2:07:24equipment
2:07:29will
2:07:30will um change any design for that
2:07:35secondary containment it doesn't this
2:07:38equipment is outside of the the batch
2:07:42house floor so it takes material from a
2:07:45process before it goes into onto the B
2:07:48house FL and removes the liquids in a
2:07:51different
2:07:53area if and so and and and if that
2:07:56equipment fails to work what's to keep
2:08:00them from piling up the so that area
2:08:02also requires secondary containment
2:08:04which is different from the the batch
2:08:06house floor containment the two pieces
2:08:09of equipment are not associated with
2:08:11resolution of the batch house floor in
2:08:13any way the batch house floor needs to
2:08:16be fixed and that's why we prioritize a
2:08:18permit
2:08:28decision do you want question could we
2:08:31turn to an item in the administrative
2:08:33record the dtsc issued letter of July
2:08:3722nd to Mr roft signed by the hazardous
2:08:42substance engineer Parisa
2:08:45[Music]
2:08:46kavani let me know when it's time we hav
2:08:49as as we've become more familiar with
2:08:52the process um for temporary
2:08:55authorizations I was I was going to ask
2:08:59if you look at the last paragraph on
2:09:01page two to address this specific issue
2:09:05and the way it continues on to page
2:09:08three this appears to be
2:09:11where dtsc strives and I'm not trying to
2:09:15put words in your mouth but is this
2:09:17where dtsc stries
2:09:19to address the shortcomings pointed out
2:09:23in Carl's earlier letter where this is
2:09:28where the strength of the rationale is
2:09:30to be
2:09:32found yes including the paragraph above
2:09:35the one you cited because it discusses
2:09:37the for those who don't know what we're
2:09:39talking about um
2:09:42Alexis just for the rest of the public
2:09:45because we can put up a slide if you
2:09:46give us a moment I I'll posee my
2:09:49question while we do our um audio visual
2:09:52magic
2:09:54here I was learning as we became more
2:09:57familiar with this process that really
2:10:00there's sort of a two-part test in
2:10:03deciding to Grant a temporary
2:10:05authorization and I was looking to this
2:10:08letter to be sort of
2:10:11the the strength of that argument and I
2:10:14was I was wondering if it
2:10:17was specific enough to meet that
2:10:20Criterion number five for instance you
2:10:23know
2:10:25it tell me what you
2:10:29think and if um those in the audience
2:10:31would bear with us a moment we'll get
2:10:33that
2:10:37up Gabriella could you please show Slide
2:10:40number
2:10:46five so I mean just while that's coming
2:10:49up I think um I would say that uh the
2:10:53language in this letter goes to the
2:10:56findings from dtc's permit appeals
2:10:58officer in a way to try to resolve that
2:11:03finding that they made at the time that
2:11:06we didn't include a justification in our
2:11:10notification about why it was necessary
2:11:13and so this specifically may not include
2:11:17all of the rational now required for for
2:11:20Section Five in that piece but it goes
2:11:22to the notification principle so the
2:11:25officer found that we didn't provide
2:11:28adequate justification in
2:11:31communicating that so I I think there's
2:11:34a distinction about what we
2:11:36found to meet five C five and what we
2:11:41communicate this goes to what we
2:11:43communicated yeah
2:11:45um I do you want to ask a question
2:11:48no no I'm GNA hold for the second
2:11:50session okay um because we're over time
2:11:54but you want to follow on Wayne earlier
2:11:57in your presentation you had inferred
2:12:02that given the Department's emphasis on
2:12:06coming to a final permit decision for
2:12:08the facility to replace the 2005 permit
2:12:12or deny that you felt that a temporary
2:12:15authorization was almost and I'm I'm not
2:12:18making up the word but it's all but re
2:12:20irrelevant and so if the board were to
2:12:23act um and to say there is not a
2:12:26temporary authorization in place to
2:12:29approve the appeal it would be rather
2:12:31consistent with what the advocates for
2:12:33the Clean Air Coalition are saying which
2:12:36is to not have the temporary
2:12:39authorization albe it for different
2:12:40reasons so is there is there less
2:12:43distance between these two parties that
2:12:46neither of you thinks that at this point
2:12:48in time a temporary authorization is the
2:12:51right vehicle going forward yeah I mean
2:12:53I think we would ask that you consider
2:12:55not the consequence of the action but
2:12:58the finding about whether the whether
2:13:01our action was appropriate at the time I
2:13:03don't think we believe that you need
2:13:06necessarily uphold the consequence that
2:13:11a temporary
2:13:12authorization goes into
2:13:15effect because our auth authorization
2:13:19had an expiration date in it that we you
2:13:23know we have to take the position that
2:13:25it it's a fixed term as I went through
2:13:27the Federal Regulations require a fixed
2:13:30term and that's what our position is so
2:13:33I would just ask that you look at not at
2:13:35the consequence of the action but
2:13:38whether we made a mistake or not I think
2:13:40that's the fundamental question I
2:13:41understand the legal standard here I
2:13:43just felt that there was a point in time
2:13:45I'm not sure if you were still on track
2:13:48for that important permit decision next
2:13:51month um but given how much time has
2:13:55elapsed it occurred to me that there
2:13:56wasn't that much distance between what
2:13:58two of the parties were saying that's it
2:14:00for now okay thank you both so much and
2:14:03thank you all for
2:14:05indulging uh a little bit of extra time
2:14:08that will make it up I'm sure we
2:14:10will okay so now we are going to hear
2:14:15from the representatives of eoat uh
2:14:18Matthew Williamson from man not Phelps
2:14:20and Phillips welcome
2:14:30mat thank you chair Rizzo I think I
2:14:33close enough and members of the
2:14:37board um I have the pleasure of going to
2:14:41Third and so I have um some a lot of
2:14:45this material has been covered a little
2:14:46bit differently than what I had put put
2:14:48together in my presentation so I will
2:14:51try to scooch through slides um that
2:14:53have already been covered um get keep
2:14:55this within the 20 minutes I I wanted to
2:14:58before we started because it was just
2:15:00being discussed um make just abundantly
2:15:03clear to the board and to avoid any
2:15:06confusion on this topic eoat does not
2:15:10intend to change its commitment to
2:15:12replace the entire batch house floor
2:15:14with a new floor system and leak
2:15:16detection system regardless of what
2:15:19happens with the dewatering system
2:15:21whether it is
2:15:23approved what we we have made the
2:15:25commitment to dtsc permitting we have
2:15:28had discussions about it we have even
2:15:30proposed amending our settlement to put
2:15:32that commitment into the settlement so I
2:15:34want to take that issue and hopefully
2:15:36take it off the table this is not
2:15:38something that we are trying to do
2:15:39through the dewatering project is
2:15:41minimize our commitment to completely
2:15:43replace the floor system in the
2:15:45containment
2:15:46building
2:15:49so I want to start quickly because we
2:15:51kind of jumped right into the um
2:15:54dewatering and pill process take a step
2:15:56back and talk a little bit about eoat as
2:15:59a company um I don't know that anybody
2:16:01has actually said what eoat does I I
2:16:04think most of the board members know but
2:16:07eoat is the sole lead acid battery
2:16:09recycler west of the Rocky Mountains the
2:16:12vast majority of what we recycle are
2:16:14used car batteries so when you drive
2:16:17your car and your battery goes dead in
2:16:19California it almost certainly is going
2:16:20to end up at eoat um eoat play it's a
2:16:25critical role that eoat plays in
2:16:26California we have millions of spent
2:16:28lead acid batteries that um are
2:16:30generated in the state every single year
2:16:33and if eoat isn't here to responsibly
2:16:36recycle those batteries um they end up
2:16:38almost certainly being exported um out
2:16:41of the United States to countries that
2:16:43have little to no environmental
2:16:45standards that regulate their recycling
2:16:48of lead acid battery um of lead acid
2:16:51batteries with a pretty bad history of
2:16:54impacts to communities in those uh at
2:16:56those locations and the other thing
2:16:58we've seen in in where there isn't a
2:17:00supply uh to meet the demand for
2:17:02recycling of these batteries is they end
2:17:03up getting illegally disposed of in
2:17:05landfills or just dumped on the
2:17:08street this is something that we've seen
2:17:11the legislature taken interest in in the
2:17:13in the last uh you know decade or so it
2:17:16certainly is not you know everybody
2:17:18doesn't agree on the solution but there
2:17:19is a consensus that is building on the
2:17:21importance of California to be able to
2:17:23manage California's hazardous waste and
2:17:25so I've included a recent quote from
2:17:27state senator Ben Allen who's very
2:17:29involved in uh you know toxics and
2:17:32hazardous waste management um in an
2:17:34article that he uh provided a quote for
2:17:37uh earlier this
2:17:42year and the dewatering project as we
2:17:44heard from dtsc and as they concluded in
2:17:47this temporary authorization approval it
2:17:50is provides a clear environmental
2:17:53environmental benefit it is really
2:17:55indicative of ecobath commitment to
2:17:58ensuring that its operations not only
2:18:01meet but exceed EnV um its environmental
2:18:04regulatory requirements it since 2008
2:18:08eoat has invested well over $50 million
2:18:13at the city of Industry Facility to
2:18:15improve its Emissions Control this is
2:18:17just one example of this type of
2:18:18commitment from eoat the benefits of
2:18:21these Investments are significant so on
2:18:25an annual basis eoat recycles well over
2:18:2910 million car batteries it Rec it ends
2:18:33up producing over 240 million pounds of
2:18:37recycled lead every year and of that 240
2:18:41million pounds of lead there's typically
2:18:43around five pounds of lead emissions
2:18:46from its facility so that is an
2:18:48absolutely tiny fraction of the total
2:18:50lits recycling that is being emitted and
2:18:53that is a a tribute to its huge
2:18:54investment and air emissions control and
2:18:57it's way below the strict limits that
2:19:00the South Coast air quality management
2:19:02district has created for lead acid
2:19:04battery recyclers it's actually about
2:19:0680%
2:19:09below and I also wanted to acknowledge
2:19:12how important these type of
2:19:14environmental Improvement projects are
2:19:16and dewatering um we have folks from
2:19:19management all over the country that
2:19:21have come in to support ecoas D watering
2:19:24projects we have a number of employees
2:19:26that have come out today to support eoat
2:19:29um we also have Teamsters who represent
2:19:31the 250 employees at eoat who've come
2:19:34out today to support this program this
2:19:36is not something that just is you
2:19:39know the Environmental Lawyer and the
2:19:42EHS guide EOB back get together and try
2:19:44to come up with things that we can do
2:19:46this really is a company commitment to a
2:19:48culture to ensure that we are operating
2:19:50in an environmentally responsible
2:19:56manner
2:19:58so I think it was
2:20:01Wayne Uh started walking through a
2:20:03little bit of the process by which the
2:20:06dewatering equipment is going to work
2:20:08and I wanted to kind of step back a bit
2:20:10because um to provide some additional
2:20:13details that Wayne left out of his
2:20:14discussion the way that these batteries
2:20:17get recycled is they first go into what
2:20:19is called the battery wrecker it is a
2:20:20giant Crusher that crushes the battery
2:20:22materials all of the outputs from that
2:20:25battery pressure go into what is called
2:20:26a sink float tank um the Plastics float
2:20:30to the top of that tank the lead bearing
2:20:32material sinks to the bottom of that
2:20:34tank and the acid from the battery mixes
2:20:37in with the liquids that lead bearing
2:20:39material that sinks to the bottom of the
2:20:41float tank currently is transferred
2:20:45directly to the containment building
2:20:47where is piled up and so that the
2:20:49liquids can gravity drain out of that
2:20:51material and it the floor is then sloped
2:20:55to a sum where that liquid is then
2:20:57transferred to a water treatment system
2:20:59at the facility and I have a picture
2:21:02here again similar to what dtsc provided
2:21:04showing the way that the liquids flow
2:21:06across the floor in the containment
2:21:08building now as as Wayne alluded to this
2:21:11building has been subject to enforcement
2:21:13and we have reached agreement with dtsc
2:21:16where we have agreed to entirely replace
2:21:18the entire floor with an entirely new
2:21:20leak detection system and an entirely
2:21:22new secondary containment system and
2:21:24that's going to be done as part of our
2:21:25permit
2:21:29renewal and so going back to this
2:21:31process flow diagram and talking about
2:21:33what the dewatering equipment does is it
2:21:35comes in between the sink float take and
2:21:37the containment building and so rather
2:21:39than taking this lead bearing material
2:21:41that has a pretty significant liquid
2:21:43volume and placing it into the
2:21:45containment building for that liquid to
2:21:47then drain across the flooor this lead
2:21:49bearing material we call it Recker
2:21:51material is put through the dewatering
2:21:53equipment the um compression auger in
2:21:55the centrifuge where that mechanically
2:21:58removes the liquids from the wrecker
2:22:00material prior to going into the
2:22:02containment building so you do not have
2:22:05liquid draining out of these piles onto
2:22:08the floor of the containment
2:22:13building again going back to our picture
2:22:16of the previous you'd have the same
2:22:18piles but you would have dry concrete
2:22:20that would be in this
2:22:24picture and so as dtsc had discussed
2:22:27there are clear environmental benefits
2:22:29to removing this
2:22:31liquid first this containment system
2:22:34under the floor is while we think it we
2:22:37think it's compliant we obviously have
2:22:38disagreements with dtsc on the
2:22:41specifically the leak detection system
2:22:44um removing the liquids essentially elim
2:22:47minates any risk of liquid leaking out
2:22:49of the building into the ground
2:22:51impacting soil beneath the containment
2:22:53building and potentially impacting
2:22:55groundwater that was part of dtc's
2:22:58finding in their temper authorization
2:23:00and support for their
2:23:01decision other benefits to this
2:23:04equipment because we're removing more
2:23:06liquid from the recer material we're
2:23:08reducing the amount of sulfuric acid
2:23:11that ends up getting fed into our
2:23:12furnaces so we see a fairly significant
2:23:15reduction in2 emissions from those same
2:23:17furnaces another clear environmental
2:23:20benefit and then the third one and
2:23:22related to the r reduction of liquid
2:23:24content and the record material is the
2:23:26fact that we can then turn down the
2:23:28temperature of the furnaces as we're
2:23:30beginning the process of refining the
2:23:33lead and turning down the temperature in
2:23:36the furnaces is going to lead to less
2:23:38gas need and less greenhouse gas
2:23:40emissions from the
2:23:42facility again in their appeal the Clean
2:23:45Air Coalition does not dispute these
2:23:46benefits
2:23:54so given the fact that we have a clear
2:23:56example of an environmental benefit
2:23:58project what are we here for um the
2:24:01issue here is really quite narrow and I
2:24:04am totally happy to answer any questions
2:24:06you have at the end um I'm we'll cover
2:24:08any topic but I think it is really
2:24:10important that we remember that this is
2:24:12a very narrow issue that is being raised
2:24:15on appeal here by CAC and the question
2:24:17is was it clearly erroneous for dtsc
2:24:19conclude that the do watering project is
2:24:21necessary to fac to facilitate the
2:24:24protection of human health in the
2:24:25environment before action is likely to
2:24:27be taken on a permit modification
2:24:29request when dtsc approved eoat
2:24:31temporary authorization request on July
2:24:3322nd
2:24:402022 we have talked about the standard
2:24:43overview I'm going to go through this
2:24:44super quickly but again we we have to
2:24:47remember that we're talking about a
2:24:48clearly erroneous standard of review
2:24:50here Leia talked about the rul making um
2:24:53packet that the board provided that
2:24:55talked about difference and the reason
2:24:56we give difference to dtsc to interpret
2:24:58the rules and the technical aspects of
2:25:00this um one of the things I heard from
2:25:03CAC in their
2:25:05presentation was a discussion about
2:25:08legal interpretation of what necessity
2:25:11meant and a disagreement on the way that
2:25:15uh that dtsc has interpreted the regs
2:25:18and a discussion of some federal
2:25:20rulemaking um and an invitation to the
2:25:23board to make their own interpretation
2:25:25of the regs that's not the question that
2:25:28we're being asked here today and the
2:25:29standard of review here requires you not
2:25:32to come up with your own interpretation
2:25:33of the regs but to ask yourself was
2:25:36dtc's interpretation of the regs clearly
2:25:39erroneous and I think the answer here is
2:25:41a very clearly
2:25:45no
2:25:51and again as dtsc has already talked
2:25:54about and I will certainly go over uh
2:25:57their conclusion was not clearly
2:25:58erroneous when they in their July 22nd
2:26:01approval of this tempor authorization
2:26:04they
2:26:05identified excuse me they identified the
2:26:08method in which the dewatering project
2:26:10protects human health in the environment
2:26:11as Wayne said and as the approval makes
2:26:13clear this is not a close call it is a
2:26:16very clear environmental benefit again
2:26:18we're removing all of the liquid off of
2:26:20the floor in the containment building
2:26:21that is a significant Improvement to our
2:26:23management of waste in that building and
2:26:25then dtsc also provided the explanation
2:26:27of why that change was necessary and I
2:26:30really want to get into some of the
2:26:32questions that you guys were asking and
2:26:33I think there's some very good answers
2:26:35around why that necessity arose in the
2:26:382021 20222 time frame
2:26:42um the
2:26:452016 uh enforcement that began on the
2:26:48containment building floor led to a long
2:26:51series of discussions with dtsc
2:26:52enforcement and permitting about what
2:26:55eoat was going to do to
2:26:58resolve
2:27:00dtc's position on the batch house floor
2:27:04this is a complex system it was not a
2:27:07aha here's our answer it took many years
2:27:10and many rounds of discussions and many
2:27:12submittals on the part of ecobath that I
2:27:14was involved with I think we had at
2:27:16least least four or five different
2:27:18proposals for how we were going to
2:27:19modify this floor that took a very long
2:27:22time in the involvement of a lot of
2:27:24Engineers and Technical folks reviewing
2:27:27commenting coming up with design plans
2:27:30and so that process all took a very long
2:27:32time and it wasn't until 2019 and 2020
2:27:36till we even had an understanding of
2:27:38what the design redesign of the floor
2:27:39was going to look like at that point we
2:27:42understood this was going to take a long
2:27:44time to permit it is a very complex
2:27:46permit as Wayne was talking about a
2:27:49class two or class three permit can take
2:27:51well over a year to get done and in fact
2:27:54this is going to take even longer
2:27:55because it's been done as part of the
2:27:56full permit renewal and so because that
2:27:59was taking so long we started to look at
2:28:02other ways that we could start to
2:28:03address the the liquids on the floor in
2:28:05the containment building and one of
2:28:07those ways was you know what we can do
2:28:09something in the interim which is remove
2:28:11the floor the liquids from the floor in
2:28:12the containment building eliminate the
2:28:14risk that there's a release from the
2:28:16building
2:28:17down into the soil and that was the
2:28:19dewatering equipment and so that's where
2:28:21that necessity came it was aha we've got
2:28:23to fix let's move quickly on this let's
2:28:26get the Liquid off the floor as quickly
2:28:28as we can and let's do that through a
2:28:30temporary authorization I I mean as the
2:28:32timeline showed we did a temporary
2:28:33authorization and then we submitted the
2:28:35full permit uh class two permit request
2:28:38right um and it's it's hard for me and
2:28:42we'll get into it a little bit further
2:28:43assuming I have time um to sit in listen
2:28:46to CAC argue that well you got a class
2:28:50two permit mod that was approved and
2:28:53it's like well I would have love to have
2:28:55operated under the class two permit mod
2:28:57but CAC appealed that approval and knew
2:29:01that the board was in the middle of
2:29:03making rules that was going to be at
2:29:05least a year-long process and that that
2:29:07approval was going to be stayed for at
2:29:09least 12 or 14 months so we were sitting
2:29:13there looking at this saying we can't
2:29:14operate we're not be able to operate the
2:29:16dewatering equipment liquid is still
2:29:19going to be flowing across the floor of
2:29:20the containment building so our solution
2:29:23to that was let's just draw down the
2:29:25approval that's not going anywhere
2:29:26anyway it's been stayed by the board
2:29:29will address cac's issues that they
2:29:31raised on appeal and then we'll resubmit
2:29:33this all in order to keep this process
2:29:35moving
2:29:43along
2:29:45oh
2:29:47I also wanted to address one other um
2:29:49point we have talked about what the
2:29:50standard is for approval of a Sor
2:29:53authorization um again it's the finding
2:29:57that there's necessity um
2:30:00to to realize the benefits of a
2:30:05a Improvement that will change to
2:30:07protect human health in the environment
2:30:10um so two def findings I'll put in the
2:30:12necessity and that that that action is
2:30:14going to benefit human health and the
2:30:15environment I did want to address the
2:30:18concern that CAC raised that
2:30:21this swallows the rule and will take
2:30:24over all permit
2:30:26modifications that it just simply is not
2:30:28true that all permit modifications
2:30:30involve an improvement to the way
2:30:33environmental health of the or human
2:30:34health of the environment for example
2:30:36adding a new treatment unit at a
2:30:38facility increasing the capacity of a
2:30:40facility changing the way waste is
2:30:43managed uh allowing a facility to store
2:30:46or treat New Way streams there are tons
2:30:49and tons and tons of things that a
2:30:51facility does through modifications that
2:30:53would not be subject to Temporary
2:30:54authorization so I wanted to address
2:30:56that quickly in my comments as
2:31:00well so I'll go through this quickly
2:31:02because uh a member Strauss hacker was
2:31:05was talking through the July 22nd letter
2:31:09um but the first thing that dtsc found
2:31:13and needed to find in order to uh
2:31:16approve the temperary authorization was
2:31:18that they explained how the dewatering
2:31:20pro uh project was going to be a change
2:31:22that protected human health in the
2:31:26environment um I'll read it the purpose
2:31:28of the miscellaneous unit is to
2:31:30eliminate free liquids from the
2:31:31hazardous waste that is stored on the
2:31:33floor of the containment building the
2:31:34presence of free liquids requires the
2:31:36containment building to operate with
2:31:38containment and leak detection system
2:31:40that if failed could potentially result
2:31:42in hazardous liquids coming into contact
2:31:44with groundwater beneath the facility
2:31:46then skipping down the removal of free
2:31:49liquids from the containment building
2:31:50results in a significant environmental
2:31:52Improvement to the storage and treatment
2:31:54of the recer material minimizing the
2:31:57risk of of release from the containment
2:31:58building and resulting in a clear
2:32:00benefit to human health in the
2:32:01environment so dtsd addressed the first
2:32:05prong of its of its finding needed to
2:32:07Grant The Temper
2:32:10authorization I will then turn to the
2:32:12necessity prong um and we've already
2:32:15talked about the language the dtsc
2:32:17included um showing that the this change
2:32:20was necessary before action was likely
2:32:23to be taken on a full permit mod request
2:32:26um and again dtsc concludes that the
2:32:28approving that approving quo's temporary
2:32:30authorization request is necessary
2:32:32before action is likely to be taken on a
2:32:33modification request because the
2:32:35environment Improvement to be authorized
2:32:37allows dtsc to continue its mission of
2:32:39protecting California people communities
2:32:41and environment from toxic substances
2:32:43Etc the addition of the miscellaneous
2:32:45units above will allow kco to better and
2:32:47more safely manage its waste without the
2:32:49delay associated with a permanent
2:32:51modification request public comment
2:32:53period and final decision which could be
2:32:55between six months and a year from start
2:32:56to finish and I think that's is also
2:32:59really important reasoning to understand
2:33:01and we've had some discussion about this
2:33:04uh permit renewal and how that
2:33:05interplays with the the um uh with the
2:33:10temper authorization is what we're
2:33:12talking about happening at the end of
2:33:14this year although it's likely to get
2:33:15pushed
2:33:16at at a minimum into next month um is a
2:33:20draft permit decision that is not a
2:33:23final permit decision there is then
2:33:25going to be a lengthy public comment
2:33:27period a response to those comments and
2:33:29so we're talking about a very long time
2:33:31certainly another six months until we
2:33:33get a final permit decision so the exact
2:33:36same justification that dtsc provided
2:33:39here for off for providing a tempor
2:33:41authorization previously is six months
2:33:43at least until a final permit decision
2:33:45still applies today when we're talking
2:33:47about the um the full permit
2:34:06renewal so really quickly because I know
2:34:08I'm running out of
2:34:12time there were three kind of specific
2:34:15arguments that CAC made in its briefing
2:34:17and the first argument which we've
2:34:18touched on briefly is essentially that
2:34:20the appeal officer previously said that
2:34:23in no circumstances is this appropriate
2:34:25is dewatering appropriate for your
2:34:26temporary authorization and that's just
2:34:29a mischaracterization of the appeal
2:34:31order Leia already read that out to us
2:34:33and so I'll skip that part but what the
2:34:35appeals officer said is you completely
2:34:37skipped that part of of your of of your
2:34:40reasoning when you supported the tempor
2:34:42authorization and you needed to provide
2:34:43something we've now dtsc has now
2:34:45provided that
2:34:51something I also wanted to touch briefly
2:34:53on the class two argument this previous
2:34:55class two um I I I find it hard to sit
2:35:00and listen to the the argument that CAC
2:35:03raises on that front given that eoat
2:35:05voluntarily withdrew its previous Class
2:35:072 approval in order to um proactively
2:35:11address cac's arguments and they're now
2:35:13arguing that that should be held against
2:35:15us I think that's conduct that should be
2:35:17U encouraged and not used to punish
2:35:19folks um and I'll finally say on that
2:35:23front is in in partially granting but
2:35:27mainly denying um cac's uh motion to
2:35:30augment the appeal record the board in
2:35:33fact ruled that the previous class two
2:35:34was completely irrelevant to to this
2:35:37entire tempor authorization essentially
2:35:40for those same reasons is that it was
2:35:42withdrawn it never became effective so
2:35:43it's just not relevant to the temporary
2:35:45authorization
2:35:46and I will pause for for comments
2:35:48because I now am quite over time thank
2:35:58you think we're close to wrapping that
2:36:02for you can I if I could cover one more
2:36:05topic or topic quickly no we're out of
2:36:08okay we're okay I'll try to I'll make it
2:36:11in my
2:36:13response
2:36:14um right
2:36:20exactly so my my question goes to there
2:36:25you withdrew the mod two decided not to
2:36:28do a mod three which was the argument
2:36:31that was made right instead you're
2:36:33working on the core permit that's not
2:36:36correct we have so this is another
2:36:38interesting one is we had submitted a
2:36:40class two once the board uh we knew the
2:36:45board was back to we we have rules we
2:36:47had a timeline we all remember the Mee
2:36:49that we had we submitted that class to
2:36:51saying ah we can do this now again we'll
2:36:52get an approval if it an appeal we'll
2:36:54know there's an appeal process to follow
2:36:56so we got that class two we were close
2:36:59to an approval and then
2:37:01CAC came in and argued no that class two
2:37:04needs to be treated as a class three and
2:37:06so that has now been pushed out that
2:37:08timeline is maybe indefinite but that's
2:37:10pending we have a class two now class
2:37:14three permit mod request sitting with
2:37:15ttsc that they're not
2:37:18acting okay because the main the main
2:37:22permit is being active exactly okay so
2:37:26essentially that's on
2:37:28hold you and now we're looking at the
2:37:31main permit and we're talking about 180
2:37:33days for a temporary authorization and
2:37:36the likelihood that the draft permit
2:37:38public
2:37:39comment all of
2:37:42that you're going to hit the 180 days
2:37:44probably before that happens so the yes
2:37:48okay and so then what happens then do
2:37:51you ask for another temporary
2:37:54authorization so the
2:37:56regulations the regulations allow and
2:37:59part of our class two pending class two
2:38:01request is an extension for an
2:38:04additional 180 days and that is what is
2:38:06allowed under the regs is if you have it
2:38:08class two or in this case it's going to
2:38:10be a class three that is pending and
2:38:12hasn't been acted on then dtsc can issue
2:38:15an extension for an additional 180 and
2:38:17if the class three mod then goes into
2:38:20effect because the regular permit isn't
2:38:22so you've got a class three sitting in
2:38:24the bank right in case the the permit
2:38:28doesn't get approved in 180 days I'm
2:38:32just asking yes then you're going to
2:38:34rely on the class three as a reason to
2:38:37get an extension on the temporary
2:38:39authorization
2:38:40correct well think that now that is's a
2:38:44class three provides an ADD add
2:38:46justification for sending yeah but it's
2:38:48not our decision it's no just trying to
2:38:52understand the possibilities class three
2:38:55does require more public engagement yes
2:38:58than as does a general permit yes so
2:39:00both of those have a different scenario
2:39:04that we would all be dealing with and
2:39:07yes or maybe not an appeal I mean yeah
2:39:10yeah I mean the public engagement
2:39:11question is a good one and here I go
2:39:13weaving this in um is with the pending
2:39:16Class 2 uh requests we already had a
2:39:19public comment period there have been
2:39:20questions submitted dtsc is preparing
2:39:22responses to those we will then have
2:39:24another public comment period with the
2:39:26class three so there is right now
2:39:27ongoing public engagement on this
2:39:29project well public comment and public
2:39:32engagement some of us would say there's
2:39:34a little bit of a difference in that
2:39:36that you know public engagement is a
2:39:38little more of this than public comment
2:39:41and writing so so I'm just trying to get
2:39:45clarity so I understand because the
2:39:47questions have come up for us about is
2:39:50that three still live is it not live so
2:39:53you to be clear on a number of occasions
2:39:56and I have
2:39:57personally invited public engagement
2:40:01with CAC and others on this project and
2:40:03there has been no response to those
2:40:06invitations well and we're really happy
2:40:08to help with that I would love your I
2:40:10would love your help okay I'm GNA turn
2:40:13to other board members um
2:40:16okay go
2:40:20ahead thank you in the administrative
2:40:24record I saw a reference to a sister
2:40:26facility outside of California yes where
2:40:29the same or similar unit walking system
2:40:31has been installed can you tell us when
2:40:35that unit was
2:40:37installed I do not know off the top of
2:40:39my head or can you tell us more about
2:40:41when this solution of the dewatering
2:40:43unit became available it it was all very
2:40:46quick and sequence is it the reality is
2:40:49is that in our other states that we
2:40:51operate in Indiana and New York this is
2:40:53not treatment so we do not need to go
2:40:55through a permitting process we can just
2:40:57install the equipment and it it starts
2:41:00operating in California we have to go
2:41:01through the permitting process so it was
2:41:04all in within a very short window of hey
2:41:06this dewatering equipment works well but
2:41:09in California we have been stuck in this
2:41:11permitting limbo for now three years so
2:41:14we don't have it on operating but it was
2:41:16it wasn't like 2016 we installed the
2:41:19equipment in Indiana and then 5 years
2:41:21later it was California it was very boom
2:41:23boom boom okay so within okay so is it
2:41:28accurate to say that within the year
2:41:30when the solution became available you
2:41:32installed it outside of California and
2:41:34were looking to seek uh or temporary
2:41:37authorization to install it in
2:41:39California I think that's correct
2:41:42yes my my second question
2:41:46we talked a lot about the unit itself
2:41:48but we're not actually debating the
2:41:49merits of the unit think we're actually
2:41:51debating the the process yeah and if we
2:41:56say that rapid response is required then
2:42:00we're also effectively saying that
2:42:02Community
2:42:03engagement uh can be impacted because
2:42:06this calls for a rapid response
2:42:08so given that you've applied both for
2:42:11temporary authorization and permit
2:42:14modification can do you we've you've
2:42:20already in used the permit modification
2:42:23mechanism and it's taken it's the course
2:42:26of its time do you have anything further
2:42:28to add in terms of why the temporary
2:42:30obervation still is the right
2:42:34mechanism for this
2:42:37dewatering without temporary
2:42:40authorization the earliest that we will
2:42:42be operating this equipment is probably
2:42:45l late 2024 into
2:42:472025 so if this appeal is upheld
2:42:52today liquid is going to continue to be
2:42:54stored on eobs floor in their
2:42:57containment building and we do not have
2:43:00a permitting path forward that will get
2:43:02us an ability to operate this equipment
2:43:05until at least a year from now and that
2:43:08is just a result that I find to be just
2:43:12difficult to swallow because again this
2:43:14is such a clear environmental benefit
2:43:17and I we welcome and and part of what I
2:43:20I would ask the board and I didn't get
2:43:22to in my presentation is if there is a
2:43:24need for further public engagement and
2:43:26further refinement to these approvals
2:43:29let's do that the board rules allow for
2:43:32the board to keep jurisdiction of this
2:43:34issue and to fix any deficiencies that
2:43:37they found so that we can get this
2:43:39equipment operating and as you heard
2:43:41permitting sayfe from dtsc if if we walk
2:43:44out of here today and there's a denial
2:43:46and I submit another request for
2:43:48something they're not going to act on it
2:43:49and so we just don't have any way to get
2:43:51this equipment operating and I know I
2:43:53sound like a broken record I've said
2:43:55this to you guys a number of times but
2:43:57one of the reasons we were so excited
2:43:59about the board and we're drafting sb-
2:44:01158 we were excited about the board is
2:44:03having some help with making permitting
2:44:06more efficient and this is just has
2:44:09become so inefficient and it's been so
2:44:10many years for an environmental
2:44:12Improvement
2:44:13project I I think I feel strongly that
2:44:16this appeal is meritless and should be
2:44:18denied but if that isn't the outcome
2:44:20today I I we need help keeping this
2:44:24process moving forward so that we can
2:44:25operate this equipment which really does
2:44:27benefit you know the community the
2:44:29environment and I we need to get
2:44:31everybody there understand I have one
2:44:34claring question so I just heard you say
2:44:36that if you if this appeal is denied
2:44:39then or or granted then you would
2:44:41earliest you can operate this unit is
2:44:43late 2024 25 but that is because you
2:44:46previously submitted a permit
2:44:48modification request that you that you
2:44:49then withdrew is that correct well I
2:44:51mean that request would still would not
2:44:54be uh even if we hadn't withdrawn it it
2:44:56would still be an appeal today right
2:44:59that would that appeal would have been
2:45:02part of this same timeline because it
2:45:03would have been dismissed and then
2:45:05refiled when the new rules and we would
2:45:07be on this parallel
2:45:09track looking back I wish that my advice
2:45:12to my client hadn't been to dismiss it
2:45:15but I think that we were acting in good
2:45:17faith and said we'll proactively address
2:45:20cac's arguments in order to keep this
2:45:24process moving forward and hopefully
2:45:25avoid the need for further disputes like
2:45:29this sorry GE that's okay just one
2:45:32question this line so
2:45:36um I don't can't remember the date I
2:45:38don't know if it's June or July 2022
2:45:41when is that the approval yeah July the
2:45:43request for the temporary request was
2:45:47June approval was July June um if that
2:45:51would have if you would have
2:45:53submitted a regular process June not
2:45:57request a
2:45:58temporary where would we be now the same
2:46:02it was your decision to have it be a
2:46:06temporary process yes versus a regular
2:46:10process yes where would we I mean if we
2:46:13would have gone the regular
2:46:15out we we would be in the same position
2:46:19right because there was
2:46:21no path forward for challenged permit
2:46:24actions while the board was creating
2:46:26rules right challenged permit decisions
2:46:30were being stayed indefinitely until the
2:46:33the rules were being finalized so we
2:46:35were in a very unique and very
2:46:36challenging situation where we said we
2:46:40could have submitted a class two back in
2:46:43June that would have been a approved and
2:46:45then we would that would have been
2:46:46appealed and then the stay would have
2:46:49been entered in Def until May or it
2:46:53would still no it would still be going
2:46:54going today because that appeal wouldn't
2:46:56have been completed yet right the class
2:46:58two permit mod appeal process is going
2:47:00to be about nine 10 months to from start
2:47:04to finish processes based on the the
2:47:07fact that it was done through a
2:47:10temporary no the our I mean our class
2:47:13two was was a appealed our previous
2:47:16Class 2 was appealed okay okay thank you
2:47:20yeah so I just want to clarify the class
2:47:23two was appealed in part saying it
2:47:26should have been a class three that was
2:47:28part of their argument so and there's a
2:47:30class three Sitting In Limbo somewhere
2:47:33yes right yes so had it been a class
2:47:36three and the process would would have
2:47:38moved I don't know if it would have been
2:47:40appealed but that was only one of the
2:47:42arguments the other argument was that
2:47:44we're trying to um eliminate our need to
2:47:48replace the contain building floor that
2:47:50there wasn't secondary containment
2:47:51within the battery record where these
2:47:53units are there were a 10 arguments in
2:47:57the which could which could have been
2:47:59addressed right could have been
2:48:01addressed by well we I mean we attempted
2:48:03to address the previous arguments and
2:48:05every time th I hate to use this analogy
2:48:07but it it's starting to feel like a game
2:48:09of whack-a-mole where each round we try
2:48:12to address the arguments and every new
2:48:15round new arguments come up um and I I I
2:48:19we yeah okay uh other board last board
2:48:23questions Liz can you elaborate when you
2:48:26when you talk about your good faith in
2:48:29withdrawing what do you mean by that so
2:48:33when we resubmitted our request we
2:48:35included attachment six in the request a
2:48:38chart that summarizes hey here are this
2:48:41I'm make I don't know if it's five or
2:48:43seven arguments that were raised in the
2:48:45appeal and here's how we have addressed
2:48:47each of those with citation to where in
2:48:50the record so we attempted to
2:48:52proactively address each of cac's
2:48:54arguments rather than fight we just said
2:48:57fine we we don't need to disagree about
2:49:00this we'll just address it we think it's
2:49:02something that's easy to address or it
2:49:04was based on a misunderstanding to begin
2:49:05with so it I think that's good faith I I
2:49:10don't know if you disagree but I'm just
2:49:13having trouble kind of
2:49:15not mirroring that to this temporary
2:49:19authorization and and how how a lot of
2:49:22those wouldn't be applicable to to this
2:49:25situation a lot sorry I don't understand
2:49:28that question
2:49:30how how how how do those concerns not
2:49:35apply now they we we also addressed all
2:49:38of those concerns in our tempor
2:49:40authorization we that same exact we're
2:49:43going to address all these six concerns
2:49:44the c c appeal all went into the temper
2:49:46authorization request as well so we're
2:49:49not trying to like sweep things under
2:49:50the rug we're just all we're recognizing
2:49:53is the class two and now class three
2:49:55process takes a really long time and
2:49:58this is a really good clear
2:49:59environmental benefit so a temporary
2:50:01authorization will allow us to operate
2:50:03this equipment on a shorter time frame
2:50:06again it's 180 days that is the
2:50:08trade-off they're not going to give us T
2:50:10permanent authority to do this the
2:50:13trade-off is is that you then don't have
2:50:14to go through that full public
2:50:16participation but again I want to put
2:50:17that into the context we have
2:50:20had two going to be three public comment
2:50:24periods uh or public meetings and public
2:50:28comment periods on this we have had a
2:50:31ton of
2:50:32Engagement um there has been a lot of
2:50:34discussion there this is the third
2:50:35appeal of the issue we've tried to
2:50:37address all of the arguments raised on
2:50:39appeal so and CAC acknowledged in their
2:50:42com comments that that
2:50:45that has impacted and we have actually
2:50:47addressed and it has impacted the way
2:50:49that this permitting process is is going
2:50:50forward so there has been engagement
2:50:52there's been a lot of
2:50:54Engagement that impr question how how
2:50:57why wasn't that
2:50:59important when this temporary
2:51:01authorization was first initiated it is
2:51:04important and it continues to be
2:51:08important I I I I don't want to give any
2:51:11impression that the tempor authorization
2:51:13process isn't is a is something that me
2:51:16makes public engagement any less
2:51:18important that's why as a part of the
2:51:19process you have to then submit a full
2:51:21permit mod request and you do the public
2:51:23engagement as part of that full permit
2:51:25mod request this is just allowing you to
2:51:27operate that equipment in that initial
2:51:29phase where the per full permit mod
2:51:31request is still being processed but
2:51:32it's after the fact that the okay public
2:51:35engagement okay no you
2:51:41go um actually I don't have a question
2:51:44question for I think I've already asked
2:51:47mine Mr Williams I was trying to track
2:51:51um without it's not in the purview today
2:51:54for us to decide this issue but it's
2:51:57hard to understand what are the next
2:52:00actions over the coming year that will
2:52:02happen as a result of the settlement
2:52:04agreement and then what will happen with
2:52:07the permitting decision to follow I'm
2:52:10assuming that it's the main permitting
2:52:12decision and not a class two or class
2:52:14three decision and I I don't know how
2:52:17the decision before us tonight nests
2:52:20within the larger context of the
2:52:22settlement agreement and the actions
2:52:25that will be covered under dtc's
2:52:27proposed permitting
2:52:29decision now member Staker are you
2:52:33focused on dewatering specifically or in
2:52:36the grander scheme so let me take a I'll
2:52:40take a shot at this and I will concede
2:52:42that other than the
2:52:45section of the settlement agreement
2:52:46related to the containment building
2:52:48floor that I had modified as I discussed
2:52:50to make a commitment it was clear that
2:52:53we were going to replace the entire
2:52:54floor I haven't looked at the entire
2:52:56settlement agreement in quite a while
2:52:58but my recollection is is that the
2:53:00settlement agreement includes a
2:53:02commitment from eoat
2:53:06to make permitting submittals in order
2:53:09to get approval to operate the
2:53:11dewatering equipment and Wayne talked
2:53:13about that and then the second half of
2:53:15that in a belt and suspenders approach
2:53:16and this is both in response to dtc's
2:53:18enforcement on the containment building
2:53:20leag detection system the second half of
2:53:22that is also a commitment from eoat to
2:53:25replace its entire floor system and that
2:53:28has been done as part of the permit
2:53:30renewal process does that answer the
2:53:32question I'm not sure if it did but I I
2:53:34won't take time now I was just trying to
2:53:37understand what is happening in the
2:53:38larger picture with these other two main
2:53:40mechanisms while we deal with the
2:53:43minutia of the temporary authorization
2:53:45like what is the status of the of the
2:53:47permits what really happens next but I'd
2:53:49like to just um withdraw that because we
2:53:52have time that we have can come back and
2:53:55ask question thank you thank you Matt I
2:53:58appreciate your time and we are
2:54:01obviously running over we were going to
2:54:03have public comment now but um no we're
2:54:08not having public comment now we're
2:54:10having a lunch
2:54:12break yes okay Madame chair it is now
2:54:16405 uh would you like to call for a 35
2:54:19minute
2:54:20break
2:54:21sure promptly back here in our seats
2:54:25ready to go in 30 minutes 30 let's go 30
2:54:29okay the board will now be taking a
2:54:30short 30 minute break when we return uh
2:54:33we will hear public comment but before
2:54:35um I'm sorry before we uh leave the room
2:54:38if I can get take a quick pull of those
2:54:40on zoom and in person show of hands of
2:54:43anyone that wants to take a public
2:54:46comment so we know how much time to a
2:54:48lot okay and as a reminder um for those
2:54:52in person I have some green comment
2:54:54cards here on my table and at the
2:54:57registration table outside for those in
2:54:59person um please raise your hand so that
2:55:03my uh my colleague Sheena can take a
2:55:05poll and uh you can submit your
2:55:08questions via Q&A and we will take them
2:55:10up then hey welcome back um everyone it
2:55:14is now
2:55:194:41 um we will be uh I think we have
2:55:23all of the board members back um so all
2:55:26board members are present we have a
2:55:28form um and I would like to take this
2:55:31time to remind everyone that this
2:55:32meeting is being recorded and by your
2:55:34continued participation is
2:55:35acknowledgement that you are being
2:55:37recorded Madam
2:55:41chair we're moving on to item number
2:55:46seven yes and I just I want to make note
2:55:49for everyone we're going to hear public
2:55:51comments we're taking notes on public
2:55:54comments we won't be engaging or
2:55:57responding back about them so just want
2:56:00you to know that it's not that we don't
2:56:02care and we don't want to chat but we
2:56:04have a lot of people to make public
2:56:06comments so please keep your comments in
2:56:09the twom minute range um we have or
2:56:13we'll be here all night which is okay
2:56:15too but um so that's what we're doing
2:56:19and just bear in mind that make your
2:56:21public comment there are a lot of note
2:56:23takers we're taking the core and
2:56:25essential messages and we have a lot of
2:56:28public comments that came to us online
2:56:31which we're also going through to be
2:56:32sure that we've collected everything
2:56:35thank
2:56:40you thank you madam chair uh we will now
2:56:42open the floor for public com comment uh
2:56:45we have allotted 90 minutes if you wish
2:56:48to comment and we're not able to sign up
2:56:50in advance again we have comment cards
2:56:52here at the table um you can just turn
2:56:55them in directly to us
2:56:58um for our Zoom
2:57:00participants uh we already got a show of
2:57:03hands um so I will now check with uh
2:57:07Spanish interpreters but sorry before I
2:57:09do that uh for participants on Zoom you
2:57:12may submit your comments um via the Q&A
2:57:16chat just before your comment put um
2:57:20States please read aloud and we will do
2:57:23so I will now check with our Spanish
2:57:26interpreters give me one
2:57:42second checking with with the Spanish
2:57:44interpreters no Spanish
2:57:50comments okay we will have a two-minute
2:57:53timer set up for public comments um so
2:57:57we will start with the sign up list that
2:57:59we had online for folks that uh were
2:58:02able to sign up in advance uh I please
2:58:04ask that the
2:58:06first five commenters make their way to
2:58:09the podium the first five names I have
2:58:12our Rebecca overmire
2:58:15Velasquez David Jens Thomas
2:58:19Peterson Rachel Kirk Marilyn
2:58:25kamimura and Elena
2:58:30Vasquez good afterno sorry please state
2:58:32your name and good afternoon uh thank
2:58:34you for taking comments public comments
2:58:36my name is Rebecca overmeer vasus I'm
2:58:39with the Clean Air Coalition of North
2:58:40wer avocado Heights we have several
2:58:43members of the Community here
2:58:44representing uh clean air Coalition with
2:58:47us
2:58:48today uh the bees was created out of the
2:58:51SB 158 package of Reform laws that
2:58:54govern Governor Newsome signed in 2021
2:58:57as you all know as Governor Nome said
2:58:59that year quote this comprehensive
2:59:01legislation gives dtsc the tools and
2:59:03sustainable funding it needs to make our
2:59:05communities cleaner and safer and boosts
2:59:08transparency and accountability to the
2:59:10public un quote the bees was charged
2:59:13with increasing quote transparency and
2:59:16oversight of the department and its work
2:59:18unquote that same year 2021 is when we
2:59:22received notice that dtsc gave quimco
2:59:24temporary authorization to install new
2:59:26equipment without any public input
2:59:29whatsoever btsc approved this new
2:59:32equipment without first going through a
2:59:33regular public review process they
2:59:35allowed quco to install this new
2:59:37equipment under a temporary
2:59:38authorization that April basically a
2:59:41done deal which we appealed then qua
2:59:44went back to go through a regular public
2:59:46hearing process for a class 2 permit
2:59:48modification but the equipment was
2:59:50already installed and in operation
2:59:53moreover the public meeting scheduled in
2:59:55September 2021 was hosted by quco not
2:59:59dtsc which means we could not discuss
3:00:01this backward process that dtsc had
3:00:04allowed to be clear the public has had
3:00:06no meaningful input on the installation
3:00:08of new equipment that is clearly
3:00:09designed to support the increase in
3:00:10production that quco has also requested
3:00:12but that has yet to be decided so there
3:00:15are several things wrong with this
3:00:16process and I want to focus on the
3:00:18process the September 2021 Class 2
3:00:20modification request to install and
3:00:22operate new equipment did not actually
3:00:24take the public comment requirement for
3:00:26permitting seriously since the equipment
3:00:28was already installed in in operation
3:00:31two this was a request to modify a per
3:00:33permit that had expired six years
3:00:34previously dtsc should have told K to
3:00:37include this modification as part of the
3:00:38permit renewal process so that we could
3:00:40evaluate the whole business at once why
3:00:42are we all wasting hour time on this
3:00:44peace meal modification of an expired
3:00:46permit three while quco is not permitted
3:00:49to increase production the installation
3:00:51of this equipment is clearly a means to
3:00:53increase production and likely to go
3:00:54back to burning rubber and plastic in
3:00:55the furnaces of request we know kco has
3:00:58made to scaqmd four quco was cited for
3:01:01several class one violations in the year
3:01:03before dtsc approved the temporary
3:01:05authorization including the failure to
3:01:07maintain a functioning secondary
3:01:09containment system and Le detection
3:01:11system for the batch house I urge the
3:01:13board to save your credibility as a body
3:01:16that actually provides oversight of dtsc
3:01:18staff and the B bees must deny the
3:01:21secondary permanent temporary
3:01:23authorization thank you thank you
3:01:34Rebecca sorry I lost my my order here um
3:01:39next person is
3:01:42James is James here in
3:01:46person or online just have the next
3:01:49person come on okay um the next person
3:01:52is
3:01:59Rachel good do you need my name is
3:02:01Rachel Valena Kirk I have lived in San G
3:02:04Valley for 50 years now and I urge you
3:02:07to deny the temporary authorization I
3:02:09was shocked when I learned that this has
3:02:12been going on for eight years
3:02:14years um I assume like many citizens
3:02:17residents in this area that this board
3:02:20this group is here to protect us that
3:02:23they are to check on our make sure that
3:02:26our health is not affected negatively by
3:02:30any kinds of businesses or um activities
3:02:35and I was shocked to find out that
3:02:36apparently that's not the case that when
3:02:38it comes to people's health and worries
3:02:41about um asthma or or other issues that
3:02:46the board seems to take more the side of
3:02:49the business by giving them continuing
3:02:52um authorizations so I urge you to think
3:02:56about it who are we here to
3:02:58serve as a longtime um resident I just
3:03:02assume that people elected that's or
3:03:05people nominated thank you so much thank
3:03:07you oh I'm sorry I'm sorry you have one
3:03:10more minute I saw I thought I saw four
3:03:12seconds left I'm sorry
3:03:14yeah okay well I was going to start by
3:03:16saying everything she
3:03:18said I don't and um I do agree with her
3:03:22and I urge you again to think about the
3:03:24residents of this community first of all
3:03:27thank
3:03:31you thank you so much next is
3:03:40Marilyn my name is Marilyn kamir
3:03:44I'm part of Clean Air Coalition of North
3:03:46wer and avocado Heights I've lived in
3:03:49the impacted perimeter of eoat for 52
3:03:54years I'm surrounded we are surrounded
3:03:57by freeways from rails the closed
3:04:00landfill and material recovery
3:04:03facilities I know what it is to be
3:04:05impacted by a terrible environment but
3:04:08I've always believed in the voices of
3:04:11the
3:04:12people the people are here to correct
3:04:15the wrongdoings and if they're not here
3:04:17to keep
3:04:18speaking forward at all the time you
3:04:21cannot hear us or listen so that's why
3:04:24we're
3:04:25here by not following the established
3:04:28permit modification and appeal process
3:04:30for eoat on waste equipment and allowing
3:04:34a temporary authorization you are
3:04:36shutting our
3:04:38voices we
3:04:40hope you hear us
3:04:43you have heard many people you will hear
3:04:45many people tell about the impact but I
3:04:47am here to say because we know the
3:04:49people who have been harmed and so I
3:04:52asked the board to deny the temporary
3:04:55authorization thank you for your
3:04:59time thank you next is Elena please
3:05:02state your name and affiliation my name
3:05:05is Elena and I live in avocado Heights I
3:05:07implore you to deny K's temporary
3:05:10authorization requests kco is a
3:05:12dangerous pollut that continuously harms
3:05:14my community and neighbors I know this
3:05:16for a fact I live about one and a half
3:05:19miles away from kco and I decided to
3:05:21have my soil tested for lead metals and
3:05:24arsonic the soil testing took place in
3:05:27August
3:05:282023 and the results yielded high levels
3:05:31of lead for instance my front yard
3:05:34tested for 117 parts per million the
3:05:37drip line demonstrated 94.2 PPM and my
3:05:41backyard was
3:05:43PPM as you know the California threshold
3:05:46for safe levels of lead is 80 PPM that
3:05:50means my backyard is necess is nearly
3:05:53double the threshold for what the state
3:05:55of California deems to be safe however
3:05:58many of my community members and my
3:06:00neighbors know there really is no safe
3:06:02level of lead especially for children
3:06:05women who are pregnant the elderly or
3:06:08individuals who no no compromise such as
3:06:10myself I survived a cancer as a young
3:06:13adult I was fortunate enough to overcome
3:06:16a rare blood cancer however now I must
3:06:19cope with the fact that not only do I
3:06:21live dangerously close to kco but I must
3:06:23also live with the guilt that I am
3:06:25unintentionally endangering the loved my
3:06:27loved ones lives as well by living near
3:06:30this toxic battery incinerator my
3:06:32pregnant sister-in-law's unborn baby's
3:06:34life is put at risk my niece who visits
3:06:37me daily is also at a higher chance of
3:06:39developing a neurological or in or
3:06:42intellectual cognitive impairment My
3:06:44Pet's health is also put at risk not to
3:06:47mention all the workers and students who
3:06:49go to school in the nearby community
3:06:52that's hundreds of students there are at
3:06:54least 20 elementary schools within a two
3:06:56mile radius of kco who attend school for
3:06:59at least 30 hours a week I am so
3:07:01saddened and frustrated since I know I'm
3:07:03not alone I know there's countless
3:07:04others in my community with similar
3:07:06levels of lead the community across kco
3:07:09has also tested for some of them have
3:07:11gotten results of 200 PPM therefore I'm
3:07:15perplexed why would you even consider
3:07:17allowing the temporary authorization
3:07:19request if it's your responsibility to
3:07:21oversee emissions from corporations then
3:07:23you have a moral and ethical obligation
3:07:26to hold them accountable to ensure the
3:07:28safety of the workers the residents and
3:07:30the students in the community I hope you
3:07:32do the right thing use your authority to
3:07:35push gtsc to do better and deny this
3:07:38temporary author authorization request
3:07:41otherwise you're going to leave tonight
3:07:42and you're going to have this on your
3:07:44conscience that you are contributing to
3:07:46the exploitation of local residents for
3:07:48greed and profit if you're a lot of
3:07:52commenters tonight please thank
3:07:55you I I'm so sorry we have a lot of
3:07:58commenters
3:08:00tonight next the last person that signed
3:08:04up online is Duncan
3:08:07mcke and let's get the next five people
3:08:10you also signed up uh with a common card
3:08:11but uh you signed up on online so
3:08:13prioritizing your online comment
3:08:15yourself okay please state your name and
3:08:18affiliation Duncan mcke I'm a Community
3:08:21member um really wondering how we can be
3:08:25modifying an expired permit that has
3:08:28conditions that have not been met to
3:08:31this day from
3:08:352005 we believe that dtsc has made an
3:08:38air that uh
3:08:41uh of applicant
3:08:43must provide truthful and accurate and
3:08:47complete information in these
3:08:49applications they failed to disclose
3:08:51that they have these applications in
3:08:53with
3:08:54AQMD to act as a hazardous waste
3:08:57incinerator by
3:09:00incinerating hazardous waste plastic and
3:09:04rubber they no longer are allowed or KW
3:09:09Plastics is not taking this material as
3:09:12recyclable material in fact dtsc is
3:09:14involved in cleaning up the mess that
3:09:16was caused by it up
3:09:18there uh this will not improve the
3:09:21management of hazardous waste if they
3:09:23are permitted to start burning plastic
3:09:25and
3:09:26rubber all they have to do is vacuum up
3:09:29or and pump that material off that
3:09:32containment floor into the wastewater
3:09:36treatment facility we believe that the
3:09:38centrifuge is to dry that plastic and
3:09:41rubber prior to it going to the rotary
3:09:44Kil dryer and being fed to the furnace
3:09:46and incinerated and their attorney is
3:09:49inaccurate in saying that the F furnace
3:09:53temperatures can be lowered in that a
3:09:57they have a application in with AQMD to
3:10:00increase the temperature of the rotary
3:10:02Kil dryer even though the scientists at
3:10:05AQMD recommended lowering it to reduce
3:10:08the cancer risk he's also inaccurate
3:10:11just look up more KK from Alco Pacifico
3:10:15where quco was involved in dumping
3:10:18hazardous waste in Mexico where little
3:10:21children were exposed to that way thank
3:10:24you okay thank you thank you very
3:10:28much before we move on to the Comon
3:10:31cards I want to honor um uh David Jens
3:10:35Thomas Peterson that signed up online
3:10:38I'm calling on him again calling on them
3:10:40again if he's if they're here D
3:10:45David no okay we're going to move on to
3:10:48comment cards now I'm going to call on
3:10:50the first five names if you can please
3:10:53uh line up behind the podium or at the
3:10:55aisle I have Stephanie
3:10:58Scruggs Mark
3:11:00Hoffman Mike bans and please
3:11:04apologize I do apologize if I'm um not
3:11:08saying your name
3:11:09correctly Aussie Martinez and and art
3:11:14Loa first is Stephanie Scruggs please
3:11:16state your name and affiliation
3:11:18absolutely my name is Stephanie Scruggs
3:11:20I'm the chief sustainability and health
3:11:22safety environmental officer at eoat I'd
3:11:25like to start by thanking you all here
3:11:27for providing this forum for
3:11:29constructive feedback and this public
3:11:32engagement for all interested parties
3:11:35I'd also like to take a moment to
3:11:36acknowledge the employees community
3:11:38members and Teamsters who've shown up
3:11:40today in support of the temporary
3:11:41authorization if you would mind showing
3:11:43your hands I'd appreciate
3:11:45it at ecob we're proud to serve and
3:11:49provide a vital service to California
3:11:52and for the rest of the nation we are
3:11:54the only lead acid battery recycler west
3:11:57of the Rockies our facility allows
3:12:00California to responsibly recycle the
3:12:03waste it generates within the
3:12:06state the city of Industry Facility is
3:12:09the cleanest Le acid battery recycler
3:12:11facility in the world and without
3:12:13ecobath most of the millions of spent
3:12:15lead acid batteries generated in
3:12:17California would be exported to foreign
3:12:20countries that have significantly lower
3:12:22environmental standards or illegally
3:12:24disposed of in landfills we strive to
3:12:27continuously improve our environmental
3:12:28performance and since 2008 our
3:12:31facilities invested over $50 million in
3:12:33state-of-the-art emission controls at
3:12:36our facility we recycle 240 million
3:12:39pounds of lead annually and our lead
3:12:42emissions only total about five pounds
3:12:44that's less than a single car battery
3:12:47our lead emissions are 80% below AQMD
3:12:50stringent legal limit our Dew watering
3:12:53project is the most recent example of
3:12:55ecob bad's resolve and commitment to do
3:12:57the right thing and we are looking to
3:12:59invest in environmental improvements now
3:13:02the project allows us to improve the
3:13:04management of our hazardous material now
3:13:07and also it allows us to reduce the risk
3:13:09for hazardous materials and potentially
3:13:11entering groundwater and also reduces
3:13:13the possibility for increased sulfur
3:13:16oxide emmissions so with this I'd like
3:13:19to take a moment to really ask thank
3:13:22time thank you thank you very
3:13:26much Mark
3:13:30Hoffman please state your name and your
3:13:33affiliation yes uh my name is Mark
3:13:35Hoffman I'm the environmental director
3:13:37for eoat
3:13:40resources I'm going to reiterate a lot
3:13:42of what's been said here but I'm doing
3:13:43it for a reason as part of the lead acid
3:13:45battery recycling process lead bearing
3:13:47materials are currently transferred to
3:13:49the containment building they contain a
3:13:51significant volume of liquid which we
3:13:54talked about drains across the mic up a
3:13:56little bit so everyone can hear thank
3:13:58you which we've we've talked about
3:13:59drains across the containment building
3:14:01floor to some parts pumped for further
3:14:04treatment the watering a project
3:14:06improves this process it removes the
3:14:09liquids before transferring the lead
3:14:10bearing material to the batch house
3:14:12those liquids are removed in an enclosed
3:14:15system this has several environmental
3:14:17health and safety benefits we've talked
3:14:19about them I'm going to reiterate them
3:14:21because I think this is an important
3:14:22point that this is environmentally
3:14:24beneficial handling the liquids in an
3:14:26enclosed system and reducing them amount
3:14:28of liquid on the batch house floor makes
3:14:30the operation safer for the environment
3:14:32by reducing the risk of release to soil
3:14:34or groundwater a component of this
3:14:37liquid is electrolyte that contains
3:14:38sulfuric acid removing the liquid before
3:14:41feeding the material to to our drying
3:14:43kill and furnaces reduces the amount of
3:14:44sulfur dioxide emissions generated
3:14:47additionally drier feed material uses
3:14:49less energy to smelt our furnaces are
3:14:52natural gas fired and if we require less
3:14:54energy to smelt it's a reduction of
3:14:56energy related greenhouse gas
3:14:58emissions these are all environmental
3:15:01benefits we've been seeking approval to
3:15:03operate this equipment since early 2021
3:15:05coming up on three years due to appeals
3:15:09we've been largely unable to operate it
3:15:11we respectfully ask the board to deny
3:15:13clean our coalition's appeal and allow
3:15:15eat to begin operating dewatering
3:15:17equipment equipment the dtsc has
3:15:20repeatedly concluded will be more
3:15:22protective of human health in the
3:15:23environment thank you thank
3:15:28you thank you
3:15:33Mike thank you please say your name and
3:15:35your affiliation uh chero members of the
3:15:37board uh my name is Mike Buck your pron
3:15:39your pronunciation was really good uh
3:15:42I'm the manager of environmental
3:15:43technical support for eoat and I'm also
3:15:46the owner of a consulting firm called PB
3:15:49environmental consulting which
3:15:50specializes in environmental concerns
3:15:53for the battery Recycling Industries
3:15:55I've been doing this stuff for lead uh
3:15:56recell uh recycling facilities for
3:15:58nearly 25 years the pollution control
3:16:01equipment employed by the eoat
3:16:03facilities throughout the United States
3:16:04but particularly at the facility in the
3:16:06city of Industry is unmatched by any
3:16:08lead smelter on the face of the Earth
3:16:11since the mid-2000s throughout the
3:16:12smelters in the United States Aquabat
3:16:14has invested tens to hundreds of
3:16:16millions of dollars in Pollution Control
3:16:19technology in each of its facilities the
3:16:21footprint and the fa space taken up at
3:16:23the facility by pollution control
3:16:25equipment is actually larger than the
3:16:28space taken up by the production
3:16:29equipment exob baths processes
3:16:32effectively recycle reuse all of the
3:16:35components of the battery the battery
3:16:38plastic casing is recycled the acid in
3:16:40the battery is recycled and of course
3:16:43the lead components are recycled as well
3:16:45uh since the uh deployment of its West
3:16:49technology lead emissions have been
3:16:51reduced by 98% to around five pounds a
3:16:54year arsenic emissions have been reduced
3:16:56by about 95% to about six pounds a year
3:17:00or less lead is the most recycled
3:17:02material more than aluminum more than
3:17:05newspaper more than aluminum cans or
3:17:07plastic bottles the recycling of lead
3:17:10has gotten us to the point where we no
3:17:12longer have to mine lead in the United
3:17:15States and and bear the the consequences
3:17:17of environmental impact from mining
3:17:19operations it's an incredible uh success
3:17:22story in the world of environmental uh
3:17:24excellence and uh we continue to pursue
3:17:27it through the use of supplemental
3:17:28pollution prevention projects we have
3:17:30applications at dtsc and AQMD for vocc
3:17:34reduction for nox reduction and to
3:17:37reduce the amount of hazardous waste
3:17:38over the road through a plastic coling
3:17:40project thank you for your time today
3:17:42thank you sir thank you we appreciate
3:17:45your comments aie Martinez please state
3:17:49your name and your affiliation H good
3:17:51afternoon my name is Azie Martinez I am
3:17:53a West operator at
3:17:55eoat not only do I work at eoat I also
3:17:58live in the community for the last 24
3:18:00years where I'm raising my family in my
3:18:02role as a unit Steward ensuring the
3:18:04welfare of my fellow workers is most
3:18:06important eoat with his 250 union
3:18:09members is committed to our health and
3:18:10safety many of our Teamster members have
3:18:13worked in our recycling facility for
3:18:15several decades and we take pride in
3:18:18what we do and in being a good neighbor
3:18:21the dewatering project reduces waste in
3:18:24enhancing workplace safety and
3:18:26underscoring the dedication to
3:18:28Excellence as a Union steward I proudly
3:18:31support this initiative knowing it not
3:18:34only safeguards the well-being of my
3:18:36fellow Teamsters but also Fosters a
3:18:39workplace of and culture that
3:18:41prioritizes their health and the health
3:18:43of our
3:18:44community we know that the dewatering
3:18:46equipment works but the small group of
3:18:50opponents use unfair delaying tactics
3:18:52that prevent us from using it they do
3:18:56not deny the environmental benefits of
3:18:58our they do not deny the environmental
3:19:01benefits but they oppose everything EOB
3:19:04bat supports they even argue and urge a
3:19:08boycott of City of Hope EOB back because
3:19:12by contributes this blind opposition
3:19:14does doesn't make a good our
3:19:16neighborhood a better place thank you
3:19:19thank
3:19:21you thank you next up we have thank
3:19:25thank you next up we have art Loa but
3:19:27before you begin let me call up the next
3:19:29five uh pres commenters so that they can
3:19:32line up I have Alysa manukian Jackie it
3:19:37just says Jackie Adriana konz Greg fre
3:19:41and Paul Ortiz thank you for your
3:19:44patience art please state your name and
3:19:46your affiliation art loam team local
3:19:49986 my name is Art Loa as a dedicated
3:19:52union representative my allegiance it
3:19:55lies with the 250 union members whom are
3:19:59the heart of
3:20:00echobot and without um our unwavering
3:20:05commitment to health and safety is
3:20:07embodied in our work culture my my
3:20:10fellow union workers and I have the
3:20:12right to a healthy safe workplace and we
3:20:15probably believe that we have that we
3:20:17also believe our recycling facility is a
3:20:20good neighbor we are proud of the of our
3:20:23work recycling millions of batteries
3:20:25keeping them out of the
3:20:27landfills unfortunately our opponents to
3:20:30my left are a small group of individuals
3:20:34that only want to get rid of us and the
3:20:37250 jobs they oppose everything and then
3:20:41they bully and harass everybody that has
3:20:44anything to do with it anyone who
3:20:46expresses support for our facility and
3:20:48they even oppose when eoat has had
3:20:51health faires they've had food drives
3:20:54they show up and protest those for the
3:20:58community they challenge everything
3:21:01using government bureaucracy to delay
3:21:03projects like dewatering that the um
3:21:08that have the environmental
3:21:10benefits we're here to ask that this
3:21:13thing goes forward the same people that
3:21:16protest eoat are the same people that
3:21:19would show up to the facility when
3:21:21there's food drives they're the first
3:21:23ones to step in line they go in there
3:21:25and they get the food they show up they
3:21:27get the benefits I've personally
3:21:29witnessed them myself individuals here
3:21:32where they go in there they stand in
3:21:34line they take the free food that has
3:21:36been given out to the community then
3:21:38they go and drive across the street park
3:21:40their cars leave leave their cars there
3:21:42grab their the protest signs and then
3:21:44they start protesting the same benefit
3:21:45that they just benefited from that's a
3:21:48ridiculous thank you thank
3:21:53you
3:21:55Alissa Alysa
3:22:00manukan please state your name and your
3:22:02affiliation hi my name is Alyssa
3:22:04manukian from the cleaner Coalition um I
3:22:07would like to you know I'm just going to
3:22:09make this quick cut out some things um I
3:22:11also remember him from some rallies that
3:22:13we had outside of these Community Days
3:22:15Community Days that the surrounding
3:22:16Community was not involved in for the
3:22:18most part um and he you know we weren't
3:22:21against we know one went inside to get
3:22:22food and he yelled at us to get a job on
3:22:24a Saturday morning um practicing our
3:22:27right you could limit your all of you
3:22:29limit your comments to what's in front
3:22:31of us the crossfire with each other is
3:22:35not going to get us okay so if you could
3:22:38do that I'd appreciate it give give her
3:22:40her time back but I
3:22:44yeah am I allowed to address like
3:22:46something that the eoat lawyer said to
3:22:48you absolutely anything that has to do
3:22:50with the temporary authorization your
3:22:52experience as a community member is
3:22:55totally welcom
3:22:57but yeah okay I'll start over thank you
3:23:00I would like to thank you for coming out
3:23:01here to hasana Heights today in my
3:23:03experience in meetings with the dtsc
3:23:04it's often challenging to have dialogue
3:23:06about eoat as well as discern between
3:23:08the vague language used by the
3:23:09representatives of dtsc to the community
3:23:12what you showed time as you show times
3:23:13you were confused by what the
3:23:15representatives of dtsc were saying is
3:23:17exactly how I and many other community
3:23:18members have felt every time with them
3:23:20on top of that confusion we've been
3:23:21limited to one minute long public
3:23:23comment without any opportunities to
3:23:24respond and the dtsc has not even tried
3:23:26to answer our questions often times
3:23:28which as you pointed out there is a
3:23:29drastic difference between public
3:23:31comment and public engagement and the
3:23:33public has not been meaningful engaged
3:23:35which is why I urge you to deny the
3:23:36temporary
3:23:37authorization I would also like to
3:23:39briefly address some comments made by
3:23:40eat's lawyer he mentioned how if the
3:23:42facility were to close then our car
3:23:44batteries will get sent to developing
3:23:45countries where the environmental
3:23:46regulations are much more laxed firstly
3:23:48eoat already has facilities all over the
3:23:50world according to their own website the
3:23:52first eoat facility was opened in Italy
3:23:54in 1938 the same year the fascist melini
3:23:57came to power their next facility
3:23:59according to their own timeline was in
3:24:001948 in South Africa the same year that
3:24:03the white supremacist apartheid
3:24:04government seized power eoat still has
3:24:07about six facilities operating in South
3:24:08Africa from my memory a company with
3:24:10this history is exactly kind of company
3:24:12taking advantage of LAX environmental
3:24:13laws in developing countries and he
3:24:15should not be allowed to justify the
3:24:16pollution of our own communities by
3:24:17claiming that these batteries will get
3:24:19sent abroad to their own ecob bout
3:24:20facilities in poor countries yes car
3:24:22batting recycling is essential but that
3:24:23doesn't mean that the children and
3:24:25people of hiana heights lente and
3:24:26surrounding communities should have to
3:24:28live in a sacrifice zone for lead acid
3:24:30battery recycling through the burning of
3:24:31hazardous waste I would also like to say
3:24:33that the teamsters and other workers
3:24:34have my full support I've participated
3:24:37in practice pickets and solidarity with
3:24:38the UPS Teamsters last summer we have
3:24:40much more in common with each other as
3:24:42workers than we do with the members of
3:24:43the ruling class like the CEO of eoat
3:24:45who makes millions of dollars per
3:24:47year side with the community members and
3:24:50not with the ruling class that doesn't
3:24:52care if we're poisoned I fully
3:24:53understand where the resistance to want
3:24:55your jobs to go away workers who are the
3:24:58facility The Farmer John's facility in
3:24:59Vernon that were closed are currently
3:25:01working with Union reps to get
3:25:02integrated into new jobs and I fully
3:25:04support the workers desire for work and
3:25:07money thank you thank you
3:25:10Jackie
3:25:14please state your name and affiliation
3:25:16you have two minutes good afternoon my
3:25:19name is Jackie I'm a member of the
3:25:21community here hold the mic a little
3:25:23closer so we can all hear you thank you
3:25:25is that better that's better Jackie
3:25:27thank you thank you good afternoon I'm
3:25:29here today because my husband died of a
3:25:30rare aggressive form of cancer I was
3:25:33unaware of I met cobat when I first
3:25:35moved to this area it was only through a
3:25:38friend moving to an adjoining community
3:25:39and their dealings with the AQMD I was
3:25:42astonished to find out how little I knew
3:25:44and speaking with local residents I've
3:25:46learned that I'm not alone quco eoat is
3:25:49unn polluter due to their many
3:25:51violations and they have been for years
3:25:54they have been allowed to continually
3:25:55operate with little consequence they are
3:25:57given special privilege to operate under
3:25:59the guise of emergency needs to
3:26:01circumvent the system and ignore any
3:26:03public engagement this is in stark
3:26:05contrast to other local concerns for
3:26:07example we have we had a shooting range
3:26:10moved
3:26:12to a different location due to noise we
3:26:14build walls along freeways we
3:26:15acknowledge complaints of smelly hot
3:26:17sauce factories yet toxic pollution is
3:26:20somehow okay people are sick and people
3:26:22are dying where is the outrage Our
3:26:24concern in addition I question the
3:26:26supposed goal is to decrease the
3:26:28pollution why should there be any
3:26:30consideration of an increase in
3:26:32production by
3:26:3325% quco eoat is not the only one
3:26:37accountable the dtsc has the purpose to
3:26:39watch over our communities and instead
3:26:42they are complicit we should be here
3:26:44today discussing the denial to eoat also
3:26:46known as ca for any renewal of any
3:26:48permit they never should have been able
3:26:51to operate with an expired permit quo
3:26:54echoback should be responsible for the
3:26:56cleanup of the surrounding neighborhoods
3:26:57and their own Works side immediately
3:26:59nothing else should be cons in
3:27:01consideration before this thank you
3:27:03thank you for your
3:27:05comment thank you Adriana please state
3:27:08your name and your affiliation my name
3:27:10is Adriana Kon is a community leader in
3:27:12as the heights I was going to write my
3:27:15speech but I rather speak from the
3:27:18heart I'm here to represent my
3:27:22nephew uh Christopher sna who died of a
3:27:25rare form of cancer at the age of 36 my
3:27:29family did not know we had kco in our
3:27:32backyard um when I found out about it I
3:27:34started doing research and uh for nine
3:27:37years I have been involved with uh
3:27:40cleaner coalition
3:27:42um and I was writing some of the notes
3:27:45that made me very upset you know I'm
3:27:47part Italian so you know my temper just
3:27:49went up uh the the attorney mentioned
3:27:55something about public engagement I
3:27:58think he doesn't know our community our
3:28:00community is composed of you know uh we
3:28:03have Koreans we have Chinese we have uh
3:28:07Latinos the Outreach has not been done
3:28:10in those langu wies um how many
3:28:13Community meetings real meetings have we
3:28:16had I can tell you with one hand how
3:28:21many why are we talking about giving
3:28:25them a temporary permit without them
3:28:27following the
3:28:29rules why do we continue what does dtsc
3:28:32continue to cater to them should they
3:28:36not be representing us the community
3:28:40what about AKQ D the same thing we I was
3:28:43writing all the things that were coming
3:28:44to my mind and one of the things was no
3:28:47confidence in our government because how
3:28:50many of our people need to die before
3:28:53somebody takes these companies like
3:28:55hedco
3:28:57seriously I I can tell you that for the
3:29:00rest of my life I will continue to fight
3:29:03against this company because too many of
3:29:05our community members have died and I
3:29:09understand the teamsters wanting to keep
3:29:11their jobs but at what cost thank you
3:29:14that's thank you thank
3:29:15[Music]
3:29:17you Greg breach you have two minutes
3:29:21please your name and your affiliation my
3:29:23name is uh Greg frell I'm a resident of
3:29:25the city Walnut a retired social worker
3:29:28and a five-time top two candidate for
3:29:30the State Assembly as a candidate and as
3:29:32a private citizen since I placed High
3:29:34concern on good government that means
3:29:37not just doing the right thing but doing
3:29:38it the right way I uh the ends cannot be
3:29:43used to just by the means hurrying an
3:29:45inadequate solution is not better than
3:29:48taking the time to find an adequate
3:29:51solution I heard the dtsc representative
3:29:53saying that he thought the approval of
3:29:55the temporary authorization uh currently
3:29:57under appeal was a
3:29:58no-brainer um this underscores a very
3:30:01concern I've had about Regulatory
3:30:03Agencies using the wrong definition of
3:30:05oversight as an act of overlooking
3:30:07rather than an act of
3:30:09overseeing the purpose of these bodies
3:30:11is to hear and consider the input of
3:30:12experts not to declare themselves the
3:30:15experts no none of this is a no-brainer
3:30:18the dtsc is just to find its own error
3:30:21the eoat representative essentially
3:30:23argues its own benevolence by suggesting
3:30:25that the other companies might just
3:30:26export their toxic waste
3:30:28elsewhere apart from being purely
3:30:30speculative that argument is
3:30:32irrelevant we're not as bad as the other
3:30:34guys is not a valid argument for getting
3:30:37a pass on proper oversight further their
3:30:40quote if senator Alan's statement is
3:30:42truly ironic given that they are in fact
3:30:43importing toxic substances from all over
3:30:45the country and all over the world for
3:30:47their business the dtc's own stated
3:30:50mission is protect the people eat
3:30:52continues to operate while multiple
3:30:54toxins continue to accumulate and
3:30:57disperse in local neighborhoods as a
3:30:59social worker I worked with many
3:31:00families in the neighborhoods
3:31:01immediately surrounding this facility I
3:31:03not only came into their neighborhoods
3:31:04but into their
3:31:06homes I I got a firsthand look at their
3:31:08living
3:31:09experience like my uh uh like my
3:31:12brothers in the teamsters here I'm a
3:31:14union guy 33e labor activist and as such
3:31:17I'm concerned about the long-term
3:31:19effects health risk posst to delivery
3:31:21drivers who make regular stops at Eco
3:31:24bad I'd like to think they are too thank
3:31:27you thank you Paul Ortiz as you make
3:31:31your way up I will call the next five uh
3:31:33commenters I have taona Stephanie
3:31:39Serano Jeffrey
3:31:41deor
3:31:43Sam Sam V I believe re schmidtz please
3:31:49line up behind the podium thank you Paul
3:31:51you have two minutes yeah my name is
3:31:53Paul Ortiz and I'm a resident here in h
3:31:55high as a matter of fact maybe about one
3:31:58mile from the plant um I'm asking you to
3:32:02allow them the what they're asking for
3:32:06um I know the AQMD is monitoring them
3:32:10and I know the AQ
3:32:11is a hard it's a hard um it's real hard
3:32:15on companies that pollute so I know
3:32:17they're monitoring them they're making
3:32:18them do things that they're supposed to
3:32:19be doing I understand uh cancer and all
3:32:23this other stuff uh but I mean we're
3:32:25going to be looking at that we might as
3:32:26well look at all the cars that go along
3:32:28the highways all the exhaust all the all
3:32:31the rubber everything because all that
3:32:34contributes to pollution that we breathe
3:32:37and inhale and everything so I mean
3:32:40they're they're it seems to me that
3:32:41they're trying above and beyond to try
3:32:44to U meet the the recommendations that
3:32:47the AQMD and you guys are making them do
3:32:51uh they just had to pay a fine and I'm
3:32:53pretty sure that that that hurt them so
3:32:56I I I know they don't want to do
3:32:57anything else to cause any any more
3:33:00problems with you guys or or the AQMD so
3:33:03uh you know too many jobs have gone out
3:33:05of this state and they're going to other
3:33:07states good paying jobs and I'm not just
3:33:09saying that you know I'm concerned about
3:33:11People's Health but they are complying
3:33:15and they're just asking for an extension
3:33:17and I think it should be given to them
3:33:19thank
3:33:21you thank you so
3:33:26much hello good evening everyone my name
3:33:29is taona and I'm proud to represent eoat
3:33:33today where I've been an employee for
3:33:35close to six years now when I first
3:33:38started working at eoat I came straight
3:33:40out of college with my chemical
3:33:42engineering degree and I was really
3:33:45excited to be involved in a role where I
3:33:47could actually make a positive impact on
3:33:49the environment this initial role as an
3:33:52environmental supervisor it allowed me
3:33:54to make a significant impact by ensuring
3:33:57compliance with the best practices
3:34:00during my tenure of six years I've
3:34:02experienced various roles tied to comp
3:34:05continuous Improvement projects in my
3:34:08current role as a senior process
3:34:09engineer I even had the opportunity to
3:34:12work on the do watering project ACC
3:34:15accordingly I've seen eoat commitment to
3:34:18continuous improvement from enhancing
3:34:20safety controls and environmental
3:34:23protocols as well as nurturing a culture
3:34:26that elevates our employee morale as
3:34:28someone who truly values family and I
3:34:31deeply truly care about my colleagues I
3:34:34prioritize workplace
3:34:37safety a priority that eobot shares
3:34:40wholeheart edly they spearhead headed in
3:34:43fact our dedication to continuous
3:34:45Improvement is showcased in initiatives
3:34:48like the dewatering project being
3:34:50intimate intimately involved with this
3:34:52initiative I've seen its positive impact
3:34:55once implemented it will enhance safety
3:34:58benefit our community and the
3:35:00environment but these delays due to
3:35:04bureaucratic delays has been pretty
3:35:06frustrating for a project with such
3:35:09clear benefits it's challenging to
3:35:11understand the opposition so let's pause
3:35:14and reflect do we want employees to
3:35:17thrive in an enhanced and safe workplace
3:35:20do we want eoat to continue its path
3:35:23towards Improvement I think we all want
3:35:25the same thing in this end of the day
3:35:27and to get to what we want it's crucial
3:35:29that we move Beyond individual agendas
3:35:32thank you for your time thank
3:35:36you I have Stephanie San on next I have
3:35:40Stephanie Sano
3:35:49next thank you you have two minutes
3:35:51please state your name and your
3:35:52affiliation hello everybody my name is
3:35:54Stephanie Serano and I am the vice
3:35:56president of the board of education for
3:35:58H La Unified School District the largest
3:36:01uh School District in the Sango Valley
3:36:03we have 22 School sites within a two
3:36:05mile radius largest stakeholder in the
3:36:08area um I am also member of the national
3:36:11Federation of women um and all of which
3:36:15are taking a stand against this
3:36:17permit um equally important I am a
3:36:19mother in the community here I am a
3:36:22strong advocate for
3:36:23unions I am a Teamster family member and
3:36:27showed up in solidarity along with the
3:36:29community activist to stop Amazon
3:36:32warehouse in West
3:36:33Cina I am here to represent 15,000
3:36:37students nearly 3,000 staff members of
3:36:40which are are part of three unions
3:36:42SEIU CSEA and hpta I am also here on
3:36:46behalf of the 15,000 students that
3:36:48attend our adult school which is the
3:36:50second largest Adult School in the
3:36:51district I'm sorry in
3:36:54California I'm also here on behalf of
3:36:57the Gabrielino shishoni tribe and they
3:37:00have given me permission to let you all
3:37:02know that they standing against this
3:37:04permit the school testing composite
3:37:07testing mechanism is inappropriate we
3:37:09already have written proof that that
3:37:11testing system is inappropriate we have
3:37:13asked them to test one of our school
3:37:14sites and it's
3:37:18inadequate the specific machine permit
3:37:22that is being requested is for another
3:37:24purpose the larger picture is that kco
3:37:27is seeking to start acting as a
3:37:28hazardous waste incinerator burning
3:37:30plastic and I'm concerned about the
3:37:32children that are going to be breathing
3:37:34in plastic and Robber chemicals in our
3:37:36community quco keeps bypassing the
3:37:38stakeholder engagement legal require
3:37:40requirement for this process because it
3:37:42is clear that Community stands in
3:37:43opposition of this the community meaning
3:37:46the people that are not paid by
3:37:48keto please test all the schools that
3:37:51are downwind from this company because
3:37:53it is poisoning our community thank you
3:37:55that's time thank
3:37:57you
3:37:59[Music]
3:38:03je you have two minutes please state
3:38:06your name and your affiliation thank you
3:38:07good evening everyone my name is Jeffrey
3:38:09theator and here as a resident of the H
3:38:12Latin School District so I'm also a
3:38:15parent um based on eat's own website
3:38:19approximately 10 million batteries are
3:38:20recycled annually at kco eoat my concern
3:38:24is that the lead particles have polluted
3:38:25our
3:38:26atmosphere lead has been embedded in our
3:38:29communities and we have a great deal of
3:38:32homes and schools 22 to be precise
3:38:35within a mile or two radius that are
3:38:37being affected we know that k eoat is
3:38:41the only melting recycling
3:38:43facility uh in our vicinity and um I am
3:38:47asking eoat to soil test or nearby
3:38:49schools and clean after themselves as a
3:38:52good neighbor would if it infringes on
3:38:54on its
3:38:55neighbor um I ask and I urge the board
3:38:59to please not authorize any extensions
3:39:02or
3:39:02permits and to support hopefully soon
3:39:06the the closing down um so that our
3:39:09communities
3:39:11um can live peacefully you know I I I'm
3:39:13a union member too uh with utla that's
3:39:16my day job um I can tell you that um you
3:39:20know I worked in Vernon we have had
3:39:23other you know they they took it upon
3:39:26themselves to to clean up to themselves
3:39:28you know they pay off some people to
3:39:30live in in a hotel while they did all
3:39:32that and um we're just asking
3:39:35them as if I'm a dog owner and I'm
3:39:38walking my dog and my dog would
3:39:41poop on there somebody else's yard you
3:39:42know clean after yourselves and and so
3:39:44that's what I'm asking eoat to do the
3:39:47same in our community we understand that
3:39:49we're close to the freeway we understand
3:39:50all that but we need to do our part to
3:39:53make sure that um we we provide our
3:39:56family our children the very best um
3:39:59that we can so thank you so much for
3:40:01your time I appreciate it thank you
3:40:03thank you thank
3:40:04you next we have
3:40:09Sam
3:40:12Sam you have two minutes please state
3:40:14your name and your
3:40:16affiliation Sam with the Clean Air
3:40:20Coalition I'm here because I am Pro
3:40:24labor I see the teamsters here we're not
3:40:27trying to take your jobs away what your
3:40:30facility is asking for is an
3:40:33expansion and what your facility is
3:40:35asking for is to circumvent all the
3:40:39safeguards that should theoretically
3:40:41exist to help protect and Safeguard our
3:40:45right to live free from contamination
3:40:48and to protect our Public Health had the
3:40:51dtsc done their job we wouldn't be
3:40:54having this conversation and you
3:40:55wouldn't be yelling at us yet the dtsc
3:40:59has systematically engaged in racism and
3:41:02discrimination against the community
3:41:04residents of lente Basset avocado
3:41:07Heights and Henda Heights they were
3:41:10shown a video at the beginning of this
3:41:11year that showed that more than one
3:41:14emission Stacks are producing emissions
3:41:17from the facility that are not part of
3:41:19the West Stack so you might be the
3:41:22cleanest facility in the world but you
3:41:26can't deny what I know every single
3:41:29night to be true that emissions are
3:41:32coming from more than one emission stack
3:41:34that are completely unregulated and that
3:41:37you have water leaking from the facility
3:41:39see deeping into the San Jose Creek and
3:41:42there's been no investigation of that
3:41:44now I respect your right as labor but I
3:41:48also respect our right to live free from
3:41:51public health dangers I'm also a part of
3:41:54the union and that is the Ranchos and in
3:41:58our community the contaminated soil we
3:42:01breathe it when we're working our
3:42:08horses
3:42:10thank
3:42:11you thank you R schmidtz and as you make
3:42:15your way up uh I have last two comments
3:42:18Andrea Gordon and Erica Estrada can you
3:42:20please uh line up behind the podium Rea
3:42:22you have two minutes please state your
3:42:24name and your affiliation my name is R
3:42:26schmidtz uh I'm a member of this
3:42:29citizens oversight committee um years
3:42:33ago we pass a bond to improve the
3:42:35schools in our
3:42:37community I retired from a union for
3:42:40over over 30
3:42:41years I'm a strong supporter of unions I
3:42:47work with the the ERS in many occasions
3:42:50I box now foods that I'm retired for the
3:42:53food banks so I do a lot of volunteering
3:42:57but what I'm here about talking to you
3:42:59is that the health and the well-being of
3:43:02both the employees and residents around
3:43:05the facility that we're talking about
3:43:08it's important to keep them safe
3:43:10and that means the responsibility has to
3:43:13take a lot in mind to keep it
3:43:18safe of danger for both the employees
3:43:21and the community especially the
3:43:24children the employees many of them yes
3:43:27they can afford to live around where
3:43:28they work or close to where they work
3:43:30but not everyone they will come and work
3:43:33and live they take something with them
3:43:36they're breathing for eight hours
3:43:38students are breathing the air that is
3:43:42contaminated the water is seeking into
3:43:45the soil where is it
3:43:47going who's catching the water who's
3:43:51really cleaning this
3:43:55soil think about it we care about the
3:43:58employees but we also care about the
3:44:00communities around us please think about
3:44:03it confrontation doesn't bring as much
3:44:07leverage as cooperation thank thank you
3:44:10thank you very
3:44:12much thank you Rea next up I have Andrea
3:44:17Gordon Andrea you have two minutes
3:44:19please state your name your and your
3:44:23affiliation my name is Andrea Gordon I'm
3:44:26with the Clean Air
3:44:27Coalition I'm a 40 former 47-year County
3:44:31employee working all throughout LA
3:44:33County I'm also a cancer survivor I did
3:44:36chemo for six years I was treated at
3:44:39city of house hope I recognize PR
3:44:43campaigns and what you have is a very
3:44:46underserved Community without a lot of
3:44:49Financial Resources seeking to write the
3:44:52wrongs in our community and we get the
3:44:55weight of large corporations all their
3:44:58lawyers all their PR campaigns down upon
3:45:02us and then we get criticized and
3:45:04attacked for it we just want the
3:45:07department of toxic substances control
3:45:09to do their job and protect our
3:45:12communities from the pollutions that
3:45:14we've endured in our own Community we
3:45:17have seen repeatedly over and over and
3:45:21over
3:45:23violations
3:45:25repeatedly and then they fight the
3:45:27violations the state of California sues
3:45:30quco or eoat that also is a PR uh
3:45:35campaign to make it sound like they're
3:45:37more environmentally friendly they t how
3:45:39the fact that they are the best at this
3:45:41or that but they continue to pollute and
3:45:44violate we just want that stopped that's
3:45:47all stop it and as a former Union
3:45:51president for government workers
3:45:53managers as a matter of fact as the
3:45:55founding president of a union I stood
3:45:59with union labor all over this County
3:46:02all the time through the LA County
3:46:04Federation of Labor representing 850,000
3:46:08Union working people I don't want
3:46:11anybody to lose their jobs I want them
3:46:13to save their lives that's what we're
3:46:16talking about here something much more
3:46:18important thank you thank you thank you
3:46:23and for our last comment card we have
3:46:25Erica is Strada and um after this
3:46:28comment we will be moving on to our Zoom
3:46:30participants thank you so much for for
3:46:32being
3:46:34patient okay um good afternoon my name
3:46:37is Erica Estrada I am a teacher at for
3:46:40monabell Teacher uh monabell Unified
3:46:42School District I'm a proud
3:46:44Union Elementary director for monabell
3:46:47Teachers Association and my husband is a
3:46:49proud Teamsters for Vons Albertson's for
3:46:53the past 20 years and I just I I'm sad
3:46:57and shocked because he said that um te
3:47:00Teamsters are not supporting this
3:47:01meeting according to him and his job
3:47:03Steward so I'm saddened to see that
3:47:06union workers are not supporting the the
3:47:11well-being of students in this community
3:47:14and so my question here is um if this
3:47:18company is so great and wants to expand
3:47:21just like bonds has just like all the
3:47:23other companies have why can't they
3:47:25relocate to a less populated area where
3:47:28there's not that many students there's
3:47:30not that many roads we already have yes
3:47:33all this contaminants from freeways yes
3:47:35of course but why would we want to add
3:47:37triple quadruple a 100 times over when
3:47:39there is lots of expansion in other
3:47:42areas now the question here nobody would
3:47:45lose their job if they just relocate
3:47:47away from 20 elementary schools 20
3:47:50elementary schools right and so the
3:47:53question is Mr CEO would he this is a
3:47:56question would Mr CEO be okay with
3:47:59having this company in his backyard
3:48:01that's the question that's the way would
3:48:03I want my would I be would I want my
3:48:07students my son and daughter be treated
3:48:09it the way you know the teachers treat
3:48:11that's how I I see my job I'm a teacher
3:48:14so I treat my students the way I want my
3:48:16my the teachers to treat my son and
3:48:18daughter so um this company would you
3:48:22treat your workers the way your family
3:48:25like the way you're treating your
3:48:26workers and the community a Sanda
3:48:29Heights especially that's a good
3:48:31question to ask would you put this
3:48:33company in your backyard that's the
3:48:36question we need to ask thank you that's
3:48:38fine
3:48:40before we move on to zoom participants I
3:48:42just wanted to mention we do have three
3:48:44hands hands raised on Zoom um looking at
3:48:46the time uh we still have ample time
3:48:49before our 90 minute Mark at 6:15 um so
3:48:53I will start with the
3:48:57first uh Cynthia B please
3:49:02um we we'll send you a request to unmute
3:49:05you have two minutes please state your
3:49:07name and your affiliation
3:49:12hi my name is bage I'm the director of
3:49:16the damoo action committee and I'm also
3:49:18the coordinator of the Los Angeles
3:49:20environmental justice Network I just
3:49:23want to say first of all that the
3:49:25community members have done an
3:49:27outstanding job today representing
3:49:30themselves just because we have a crisis
3:49:33with hazardous waste and I will note
3:49:36that the Hazardous Waste report just
3:49:38came out yesterday
3:49:40and many of us are looking forward as
3:49:42using that document to really get to the
3:49:44bottom of how hazardous waste is handled
3:49:46in
3:49:47California there's a lot of shenanigans
3:49:50that are going on behind the scenes with
3:49:53politicians and the fact that were so
3:49:55dependent on the recycling of lead
3:49:57batteries I watched it firsthand as I
3:50:00was on the community advisory panel
3:50:03looking at hazardous waste and so I just
3:50:06want to say that just because we have a
3:50:09problem and we don't have exide
3:50:12Community people to keep poisoning it
3:50:15doesn't mean that we have to sacrifice
3:50:17this community no more sacrificing of
3:50:20communities this is overburden just like
3:50:23we do in kettman city and several other
3:50:26places where we dispose of hazardous
3:50:29waste it's hard enough to try and get a
3:50:32word in edgewise when you have so much
3:50:35against you please do not allow people
3:50:37to not follow the weak process that we
3:50:41already have but it is a process just
3:50:44because there's some epidemic that we
3:50:47need to increase the battery cycling and
3:50:50not be honest about it we're all adults
3:50:53let's figure it out you know there's a
3:50:54lot of pieces that go into the solution
3:50:57so deny deny deny deny any further metco
3:51:04eoat whatever you want to name yourself
3:51:06Shenanigans and support the right of
3:51:08people to have a life thank
3:51:12you thank you so much cyia and before I
3:51:15move forward I wanted to correct uh the
3:51:18instruction that I said earlier so um
3:51:21folks that do have their hand raised on
3:51:23Zoom we will uh send you a request to
3:51:26unmute for those that are having
3:51:28technical difficulties or um are unable
3:51:31to make verbal comments you may use a
3:51:33Q&A chat function uh please clearly type
3:51:36at the beginning of your comment please
3:51:37read aloud otherwise uh we will send you
3:51:40a request to unmute if you have your
3:51:41hand raised the next person on Zoom we
3:51:45have Florence gidan please accept the
3:51:48request to unmute and you have two
3:51:51minutes please state your name and
3:52:05affiliation Lawrence please accept the
3:52:08request to unmute
3:52:21okay I'm not seeing Florence coming up
3:52:25so I I'll move on to the next person and
3:52:27I'll come back the next person we have
3:52:30on Zoom is Vanessa please request please
3:52:33accept the request to
3:52:38unmute
3:52:59Vanessa I'm not sure if we have a
3:53:03technical difficulty happening on Zoom
3:53:04or if folks aren't accepting the request
3:53:11okay I'll move back to Florence when I
3:53:14hear from our Tech Team if we're able to
3:53:19send
3:53:20them a request to
3:53:24unmute let me try on my end if I can um
3:53:28if I can unmute
3:53:31them no I
3:53:37can't okay um while we try to fix that
3:53:40I'll go to the Q&A
3:53:45comments again if you have any technical
3:53:47difficulties or if you are unable to
3:53:49make verbal comments please use a Q&A
3:53:52fun function to um to write a comment
3:53:56please clearly type at the beginning
3:53:58please read aloud so far I have
3:54:04one from an anonymous
3:54:07participant and it reads I live live in
3:54:10this community and eat's efforts toward
3:54:13health and safety are commendable the de
3:54:15the dewatering project is a positive
3:54:17step that benefits us all let's not
3:54:20delay progress that improves that the
3:54:23well-being of our families and the
3:54:24environment the dewatering project with
3:54:27its efficient liquid removal process
3:54:29sets a standard for environmental
3:54:31responsibility and it's high time that
3:54:33we all Embrace this Improvement for the
3:54:35betterment of our
3:54:37community that was from an anonymous
3:54:42participant so I will go back to our
3:54:46hands raised on Zoom are we able to send
3:54:50a request unmute for Florence
3:54:59gabian okay we got it I don't know what
3:55:01went wrong this is Florence Caribbean
3:55:05I'm the chair of the Delo action
3:55:07committee and dar proud of Cynthia for
3:55:10her excellent comments I look at this
3:55:15issue a little differently and that is
3:55:18because I worked in the environmental
3:55:20field for 50 years I worked for
3:55:24dtsc we did enforcement and I can tell
3:55:27you the first thing is you don't have
3:55:29anybody from enforcement here who could
3:55:32describe the
3:55:34circumstances that are going on at that
3:55:36facility
3:55:37faity the the the
3:55:41water I have a big issue about what
3:55:45would happen to the water under this
3:55:47scenario first of all I don't think it
3:55:50would be as effective if as they alleged
3:55:53that it would be and I wonder how they
3:55:56collect the water where the water goes
3:55:59pointing out that every part of a
3:56:02battery is contaminated with lead so
3:56:05there's no reason why the water would
3:56:07not be contam minated with lead when I
3:56:10heard Duncan McGee say that the South
3:56:12Coast was considering
3:56:16allowing eag bat to put the plastic into
3:56:21their incinerator I just was like
3:56:25astonished it's not the right thing to
3:56:27do I don't think this project has enough
3:56:32technical support to really prove that
3:56:35what they want to do would even make
3:56:38that big of a difference and I think
3:56:40that should be
3:56:42demonstrated and I also think it's a
3:56:44shame you don't have anyone from
3:56:46enforcement saying what they saw when
3:56:49they went there what's happened to this
3:56:51water all this time and again please
3:56:55accept every part of this is
3:56:57contaminated with hazardous lead the
3:57:00last comment I'll make is that I worked
3:57:03on a
3:57:04company that
3:57:07took and they made it big mess out of
3:57:09perk and everybody waved their arms and
3:57:11around and said oh what are we gonna do
3:57:14what are we gonna do we closed them down
3:57:17other companies picked it up we need new
3:57:22technologies and thank you so much for
3:57:25listening to my comments I am not in
3:57:28favor of the approval of this project to
3:57:31Van for many reasons Vanessa please
3:57:35accept my request to unmute
3:57:40or someone's
3:57:41invitation hello invite oh there you two
3:57:45minutes and
3:57:48your so I'm an Outreach specialist I
3:57:51help homeless youth out in the
3:57:54community and my comment um jobs are
3:57:57crucial for our community and eoat
3:58:00provides 250 union jobs let's appreciate
3:58:04a company investing in its employees and
3:58:07Community this watering project ensures
3:58:10safety and contributes to a healthier
3:58:12business climate it's a win-win for us
3:58:15all ecob bat's proactive approach to
3:58:17investing in environmental improvements
3:58:19such as the dewatering project sets a
3:58:22standard for corporate responsibility
3:58:24that other companies should aspire to
3:58:26benefit both our local economy and the
3:58:29overall Community well-being and that's
3:58:31it thank
3:58:34you thank you
3:58:37Vanessa
3:58:42I apologize the next
3:58:43person um
3:58:47Sharad please accept our request to
3:58:52unmute
3:58:54shahad yes I'm here thank you uh my name
3:58:58is sharizad shagar and I'm a member of
3:59:00the Sango Valley progressives I
3:59:03represent 156 members that reside in the
3:59:07area and
3:59:09I we are very concerned about what is
3:59:13happening with eoat because they've been
3:59:17for what eight years now um having
3:59:20permits that were expired and you know
3:59:26there's been appeals and requests for
3:59:29temporary authorizations that prevent
3:59:32the community from engaging in a
3:59:35reasonable uh out you know engage
3:59:38engagement with with the company and um
3:59:41I'm very worried about what you
3:59:47know the oversight they're supposed to
3:59:50be providing is not happening in my book
3:59:53because why would they allow them to
3:59:55continue to perform uh with an expired
3:59:58permit if the smelters are so good and
4:00:02dewatering project is you know so
4:00:04wonderful why is are they and and why
4:00:08you know if eat is so friendly and safe
4:00:11safety conscious why not apply for the
4:00:13regular permitting process so that we as
4:00:16Citizens can have oversight of it as
4:00:18well why go for a temporary
4:00:20authorization which shuts us out please
4:00:23deny the temporary authorization and ask
4:00:25them to proceed with a normal process um
4:00:28I would ask them to go through the
4:00:30regular permitting process because
4:00:32employers may be safe the also the
4:00:35employees may be safe due to their
4:00:37protective gear and assuming that they
4:00:39have that going on but the community
4:00:41doesn't have that protective gear you
4:00:44heard the lady who tested her soil which
4:00:47showed elevated levels of lead that is a
4:00:50serious concern I don't know why there's
4:00:52not current testing going on and I would
4:00:55urge that as well uh therefore I am
4:00:58definitely against approving the
4:01:00temporary authorization thank you very
4:01:04much next
4:01:07person
4:01:12loose please accept our request to
4:01:14unmute please state your name and your
4:01:21affiliation yes can you hear
4:01:25me we can hear you an echo on the uh
4:01:30Mary can you pause my time please
4:01:31there's an echo on
4:01:34the on the zoom and I'm not quite sure
4:01:37that's
4:01:40on our I believe it's just because of my
4:01:42microphone as soon as I turn it off it
4:01:44should go away go ahead you have two
4:01:46minutes okay can you start my time then
4:01:49then since I was trying to figure out
4:01:51what the yes started your time as soon
4:01:55as you start your comment your time will
4:01:57start thank
4:02:00you hello everyone my name is l sandal
4:02:03and I'm the parent and pro parent of
4:02:05Kimberly sandal which is she's years old
4:02:08and she's an advocate for kids with
4:02:11disability and I'm very concerned if you
4:02:14pass this um permit it's not very good
4:02:18for all students in schools because
4:02:23right now we're are having a lot of
4:02:25problems with school that they're
4:02:27closing schools and they're not being
4:02:28tested so that's a main concern for all
4:02:32students and the kids because these kids
4:02:35and children are a future of a doctor's
4:02:37Eng years and if you pass this we are
4:02:40jeopardizing their health so every
4:02:44time you go ahead and pass these things
4:02:47just imagine your hands look at your
4:02:49hands because this is something where
4:02:52the kids is going to be very
4:02:54jeopardizing their health in the long
4:02:56run and we're not going to have enough
4:02:59doctors Engineers surgeon
4:03:04psychology and all the students that
4:03:06they're going for to get their career
4:03:08years as I was saying look at your hands
4:03:12they will be full of blood if you let
4:03:14this pass so every time you washes your
4:03:16hands it's like you're passing one
4:03:20person who's dying so we're not the
4:03:23person we're not every time you wash
4:03:25your hands we don't supposed to be like
4:03:27just washing our your hands like
4:03:28nothing's going to happen it's going to
4:03:31affect our kids our our youth our
4:03:35seniors health regardless what it is
4:03:39please do not let this
4:03:42pass again thank you very much and have
4:03:45a good
4:03:50day thank you are we moving on to the
4:03:53next Zoom participant or are we going to
4:03:56go to
4:03:57emails if you're not echoing we can I
4:04:00was just going to give you time to move
4:04:01locations
4:04:02because thank you I'm sorry for those on
4:04:05zoom we're trying to fix the echo issue
4:04:07it doesn't seem like it's uh continuing
4:04:09so I will move on to the next person on
4:04:11Zoom Ricardo Martinez you have two
4:04:14minutes please state your name and your
4:04:18affiliation once you accept the request
4:04:20to
4:04:27unmute hi there can you hear
4:04:29me yes we can hear you go ahead goad go
4:04:32ahead okay I'm going to be doing this in
4:04:36Spanish
4:05:06Mar
4:05:16pardon me hello sorry sorry your comment
4:05:19in Spanish double the
4:05:22time okay yes I specifically said that I
4:05:25was to provide the inish Spanish so then
4:05:27we'll have somebody translate afterwards
4:05:29so you can
4:05:31continue
4:05:36okay dtsc
4:06:06inves
4:06:36m
4:07:06Reg
4:07:36Comm
4:07:58thank you so
4:08:05much do we have the interpreters on to
4:08:08translate the comment and read and say
4:08:10it to the board members please and the
4:08:23public you are a public worker okay
4:08:27while we wait on that we have several
4:08:29comments that have been emailed to the
4:08:31board and so until I get a thumbs up
4:08:34from the interpreters U I'm going to go
4:08:36ahead and start with these comments in
4:08:38the interest of time so we have um a
4:08:41comment from Don c moss from Avoca
4:08:44Heights Community Advocate Madam chair
4:08:46and honorable members of the board I am
4:08:48Don seos an independent community
4:08:50advocate for avocado Heights and one of
4:08:53the few remaining members of the
4:08:54original cleanup kco committee formed by
4:08:57hasienda Heights Improvement Association
4:08:59in the 1970s the work of that original
4:09:02committee can be credited with the
4:09:05current cooperations corporation's
4:09:08reputation as the cleanest lead recycler
4:09:11in the nation that notwithstanding there
4:09:13is more to do within the operation to
4:09:16bring its discharge into full compliance
4:09:18247 also of importance regarding my
4:09:21observation for the board is the fact
4:09:23that my property is dead center of the
4:09:26previously published discharge plume
4:09:28simulations those Publications indicate
4:09:31that the estimated greatest volume of
4:09:33heavy metals was dropping out of the
4:09:34discharge plume at that point I believe
4:09:37the Regulatory Agencies should work
4:09:40proactively with the corporations they
4:09:42oversee to achieve the goal of the
4:09:44cleanest safest operations possible to
4:09:47that end an upgrade of line equipment
4:09:49which increases employee safety and
4:09:51decreases environmental discharges
4:09:53should be approved by the regulatory
4:09:55agency as rapidly as possible only when
4:09:57an actual increase in throughput is
4:10:00requested or if equipment or operational
4:10:02change will result in increased
4:10:04environmental discharge should the
4:10:06process be slowed down by appropriate
4:10:08deliberations as such I see the
4:10:10requested equipment upgrade as positive
4:10:13for all involved line workers
4:10:14surrounding community and operational
4:10:17functionality I recommend that the board
4:10:19of environmental safety find the above
4:10:21noted appeal without Merit and find that
4:10:23the immediate use of the system upgrades
4:10:25is appropriate and approved thank you
4:10:27for your careful consideration of this
4:10:30issue so checking um Evelyn do we have
4:10:34the interpreters to translate the last
4:10:36comment they they're not able okay
4:10:42okay right yeah they couldn't capture
4:10:44the entire comment uh I guess in the
4:10:46Spanish line there was a lot of
4:10:49echo um I'm working to try to get uh the
4:10:52comment to the translator but in the
4:10:54meantime uh we'll move forward with the
4:10:57rest of the hands on Zoom if that's okay
4:10:59perfect great okay uh the next person um
4:11:04the next person in the zoom is is
4:11:08Sonia please accept the request to
4:11:12unmute you have two minutes please state
4:11:14your name and
4:11:24affiliation hi my name is Sonia hulin I
4:11:29a lente resident and I represent just
4:11:33the community I've been a resident in
4:11:36Lau since August
4:11:382002 I have been battling with breast
4:11:41cancer for the last uh year I cannot say
4:11:45that I'm a Survivor because I am still
4:11:48in treatment and I have been told that
4:11:52um I'm still not in remission I have no
4:11:56family history of cancer and so I'm
4:11:59asking you that you consider rejecting
4:12:02the extension until schools and
4:12:04surrounding areas have been tested I
4:12:07thank you for listening to me and I hope
4:12:11that no one else goes through what I'm
4:12:13going through thank
4:12:19you thank you the next person we have
4:12:21Armando Nunes please um accept the
4:12:25request to unmute you have two minutes
4:12:27please state your name at
4:12:30affiliation can you hear
4:12:33me hello can you hear can hear you go
4:12:36ahead goe
4:12:38uh thank you very much Bor I'm a member
4:12:41of the
4:12:42community I'm just listening and they're
4:12:44talking about how great this company is
4:12:48and to myself I'm saying why did it get
4:12:50fined if it's that great a little bit
4:12:54about myself I've been a firefighter for
4:12:5631 years a fire inspector and also a
4:12:59supervisor of
4:13:01inspectors the first thing I did when I
4:13:03got on the department I gave an oath the
4:13:06oath was to save lives number one thing
4:13:11save lives air quality when I did this
4:13:14presentation to them too I told him do
4:13:16the right thing Listen to Who the people
4:13:19in the community they're the ones that
4:13:21live
4:13:22here does the owner live here I don't
4:13:26know but I could tell you we live here
4:13:29my wife when she wakes up she need looks
4:13:33outside and she sees the emission going
4:13:36out from from the company we have
4:13:39grandkids and I'm not only talking about
4:13:41my grandkids I'm talking about all the
4:13:43grandkids and all the kids here in our
4:13:51community one thing that I know for sure
4:13:54as an
4:13:55inspector you have a big decision to
4:13:58make your decision is going to be about
4:14:01saving people's lives fire department by
4:14:04the way the fire department is
4:14:06responsible responsible to give also the
4:14:11license for this company to continue and
4:14:15where does it sit on the fire marshal
4:14:17the LA County Fire Marshal is
4:14:19responsible for that
4:14:21too what has been
4:14:23done they don't have a license according
4:14:27to what I'm
4:14:31hearing so with that I leave the board
4:14:35with my main thing
4:14:38is safety of life thank you very much
4:14:42thank you that's
4:14:44time the last hand that I see raised on
4:14:48Zoom is Philip
4:14:49shandler please accept the request to
4:14:52unmute you have two
4:14:54minutes please state your name and your
4:15:04affiliation uh it unmuted okay
4:15:07um name is Phil Chandler um no
4:15:11particular
4:15:12affiliation uh I'm
4:15:14um former employee of
4:15:18dtsc you uh have already stated a number
4:15:22of places various dtsc folk and others
4:15:26used batteries are has waste the
4:15:29shredded
4:15:30material uh it's going to be handled by
4:15:32this equipment is also a has waste as
4:15:35cited uh however the separated lead
4:15:38contains adhered Plastics and rubber
4:15:41casing so your waist type you actually
4:15:45admit this uh or not admit it it's
4:15:47unfair various casing materials that may
4:15:50include adhered metal uh however the
4:15:53Hazardous Waste code that you use and
4:15:57this is used in your uh materials that
4:16:00are part of this uh
4:16:02ta uh doesn't site the plastic uh as
4:16:08having a hazardous waste code so I think
4:16:12that might be an
4:16:13error since you're worried about errors
4:16:15in the TA being the grounds for its U
4:16:21it's the appeal being held up on it um
4:16:24but also I think that you need
4:16:28to get a handle dtsc needs to get a
4:16:31handle and it should come from kco the
4:16:33volume by weight how much adhered
4:16:38plastic adhered rubber goes directly
4:16:40into the
4:16:42furnace um furnace if there's enough
4:16:45going through there the furnace is
4:16:46essentially acting as an
4:16:49incinerator now kco got its well when I
4:16:53issued the permit when I did the permit
4:16:56in 2005 we gave kco a pass on adhered
4:17:02Plastics however at the same time it
4:17:05turned out they were in incinerating
4:17:08Plastics and rubber as cooking material
4:17:11they had been given a permit by South
4:17:13Coast Air Quality Management District
4:17:15who didn't seem to know what hazardous
4:17:17waste was so that they were allowing or
4:17:21they had allowed in their permit
4:17:23bomco to incinerate battery casings
4:17:27hazardous waste I'd like to see that
4:17:29that somehow gets taken care of this
4:17:33time around thank you very much for your
4:17:35time thank thank you so much that
4:17:39time I'm going to check uh for
4:17:49Q&A give me one second as I pull up the
4:17:53Q&A from
4:17:55Zoom we got more comments from the
4:18:05Q&A
4:18:07[Music]
4:18:09um I'm sorry well let's go oh there are
4:18:14two hands I'm
4:18:16sorry I see one hand from Zoom
4:18:21user Zoom user yes you two minutes
4:18:25please state your name and affiliation
4:18:28my name is Anna Escalante and I am a
4:18:30resident of avocado Heights on Fifth
4:18:34Avenue and I am here to to discuss the
4:18:39not to renew that or try to renew the
4:18:42clco um I have my kids that at tent Palm
4:18:46I've been a resident here since
4:18:481985 we still own our house right there
4:18:51and this has been an ongoing problem
4:18:53since then since I was three years old
4:18:56and it continues and our kids are
4:18:59exposed to this and now with school
4:19:01closures moving us to Palm you know the
4:19:04testing is going to take a year to test
4:19:07the soil and I'm asking you to not the
4:19:10board to make the conscious decision to
4:19:14not let them go ahead and do this
4:19:17because of the simple fact that these
4:19:19kids are getting exposed my kids I got
4:19:21four kids in the district at Palm School
4:19:24Which is less than two miles away and
4:19:27you know we live here just like the
4:19:30gentleman said we live here everybody
4:19:32that spoke for them are people that are
4:19:35affiliation work with them but they do
4:19:37not live here they're not exposed on a
4:19:39daily everyday weekends you know that is
4:19:43us the residents that live
4:19:45here thank
4:19:49you thank you so much so I believe that
4:19:52concludes the portion for the zoom
4:19:55partic participants but before I close
4:19:57that out um I want to ask our
4:19:59interpreters if there are any uh Spanish
4:20:03participants on Zoom wishing to make a
4:20:06comment
4:20:10bear with me as
4:20:11I try to get that
4:20:20response okay no Spanish comments on
4:20:23Zoom so we will now move on to our the
4:20:26emails that we've received online um and
4:20:29just for a quick time check it is 606 um
4:20:33the 90 minutes concludes at
4:20:356:15
4:20:37um because a
4:20:39former commenter on Zoom did email us we
4:20:43weren't able to translate so this is the
4:20:45closest thing that we have to a
4:20:48translation to the former Spanish
4:20:50comment on Zoom um I I'll read it now
4:20:54from Ricardo Martinez um he is an ad 56
4:20:59Delegate for the California Democratic
4:21:01party his email reads my name is Ricardo
4:21:05Martinez I am here as a labua resident
4:21:08and an assembly
4:21:10Delegate for the California Democratic
4:21:13party I am troubled by the actions of
4:21:15kedco a lead assd battery smelting
4:21:17company operating without regard to
4:21:19previous violations they have done we
4:21:21cannot simply ignore the devastating
4:21:23impact this company has on our
4:21:25environment and public health K's
4:21:27Reckless release of toxic substances
4:21:30including hydrogen cyanide and
4:21:31carcinogens poses an imminent threat to
4:21:34the well-being of our community these
4:21:36pollut ents have been linked to severe
4:21:37health problems including respiratory
4:21:39issues cancer and neurological disorders
4:21:42it is unacceptable that our families and
4:21:44children are subjected to such dangers
4:21:47furthermore it is our right to live in a
4:21:48clean safe and healthy environment canos
4:21:51actions not only jeopardize our health
4:21:54but also our quality of life our
4:21:56community deserves better and it is the
4:21:58duty of this board to protect our
4:22:00interests I implore the dtsc board to
4:22:03take immediate and decisive action
4:22:05against kedco we demand stricter
4:22:07regulations increased monitoring and
4:22:09stringent enforcement of environmental
4:22:11safety standards it is time for kedco to
4:22:14be held accountable for its actions and
4:22:16to cease its Reckless practices that
4:22:19endanger our lives and the environment
4:22:22our community deserves to breathe clean
4:22:24air drink safe water and live without
4:22:26the constant fear of exposure to harmful
4:22:28toxins I therefore strongly urge the
4:22:30dtsc board to prioritize the health and
4:22:32well-being of its residents over
4:22:34corporate interests let's ensure that
4:22:36our Community remains a safe and healthy
4:22:38place for
4:22:41everyone
4:22:44okay okay so I'm going to read the
4:22:47comments only from those participants
4:22:49who haven't um participated in person I
4:22:52know there's a number of folks that
4:22:54submitted comments they emailed it to us
4:22:56and then they also did in person so
4:22:58we're um the board has received all of
4:23:01those comments everything that's been
4:23:02emailed to the board will be posted on
4:23:04our website as well in the coming days
4:23:07and so I will go ahead and read these
4:23:08next few comments um the next one is
4:23:10from Vivien um zamona members of the
4:23:13board of environmental safety as you
4:23:15consider arguments in your appeal
4:23:17decision it is incumbent upon your body
4:23:19to weigh right and wrong along a
4:23:22temporal Continuum for eight years kco
4:23:25eoat has been allowed to operate on an
4:23:27expired permit since
4:23:302021 clean air Coalition has twice
4:23:32appealed a temporary authorization that
4:23:34dtsc approved to allow kco eoat to
4:23:37install new equipment without any public
4:23:39review and without including this new
4:23:41equipment in the regular permit renewal
4:23:43process which also required public
4:23:46review by dtc's own admission at a
4:23:48recent kco informational public meeting
4:23:51on 118 eoat is not as bad as they used
4:23:54to be however in this admission they
4:23:56acknowledge they have been accomplices
4:23:58to keto's hazardous operations and the
4:24:01company's long game plan of increased
4:24:04operations incremental es and temporary
4:24:07authorizations to the expired permit
4:24:09appear to be part of that plan at the
4:24:11same meeting dtsc wanted to hear new
4:24:14information from the public can you
4:24:16justifiably allow them to ignore the
4:24:18cumulative impacts and complaints of
4:24:20Decades of contamination to EJ
4:24:22communities don't allow ecoach to
4:24:24circumvent regulations and continue to
4:24:26deceive the public please don't simply
4:24:28defer to dtsc staff to take the correct
4:24:31action you must hold dpsc and eoat
4:24:33accountable to a process that protects
4:24:36the the health of people and the
4:24:37environment we can't let dtsc kco and
4:24:39eoat get away from this end run around
4:24:42the community deny the temporary
4:24:48authorization the next comment is from
4:24:50Sarah Brady I'm requesting that you
4:24:52please put the Community First by making
4:24:54sure we are always part of any decision
4:24:57made about e about kco ecobath a
4:25:00temporary authorization serves a
4:25:01particular function within the structure
4:25:03of permit modifications to allow a rapid
4:25:06response so that activities necessary to
4:25:09respond promptly to changing conditions
4:25:11can be undertaken just as the appeal
4:25:14officer observed in January of 2022 this
4:25:17temporary authorization was not issued
4:25:19because of a need for a rapid response
4:25:22rather this temporary authorization was
4:25:23issued in response to the desire to
4:25:25circumvent the clearly established
4:25:27permit modification and appeals process
4:25:30cic calls upon the bees to support
4:25:34rather than undermined transparent
4:25:36permitting Decisions by directing
4:25:37permitting to deny keto's June 2022
4:25:41request for a temporary authorization to
4:25:43operate the waste equipment at issues
4:25:45here thank
4:25:50you the next comment is from Daniel
4:25:53talamantes PhD Claremont colleges dear
4:25:57dtsc Board of environmental safety I'm
4:25:59writing to expressed my deep concern and
4:26:01frustration regarding the ongoing
4:26:03violations and compliance issues at kco
4:26:05ecobath
4:26:06as highlighted by the recent multi-
4:26:08agency inspections and enforcement
4:26:10actions it is imperative that the dtsc
4:26:13prioritize the community's well-being by
4:26:16ensuring their active involvement in any
4:26:18decisions related to kco eoat the
4:26:21documented violations ranging from
4:26:23illegal storage to inadequate
4:26:24inspections and to failure to address
4:26:26issues such as hazardous waste Sledge
4:26:28removal raises serious doubts about the
4:26:30facility's commitment to environmental
4:26:32safety the community's distress is
4:26:35palpable evident not only in public
4:26:37comment but also in news articles that
4:26:39underscore the urgency of this matter
4:26:41adding to the problematic is the
4:26:43community's Deep seeded distrust in
4:26:45temporary permits issued for equipment
4:26:47that fails to address the persistent
4:26:49lack of groundwater Leak Detection
4:26:52temporary permits if not carefully
4:26:53scrutinized May exasperate existing
4:26:56issues and compromise Public Safety the
4:26:58community rightfully questions the
4:27:01efficacy of such permits and demands a
4:27:03comprehensive and trustworthy approach
4:27:05to permit issuance the compliant for
4:27:08civil penalties and injunctive relief
4:27:10case number 18 St CV
4:27:1503084 issued on
4:27:17102118 further emphasizes the severity
4:27:20of the violations it is disconcerting to
4:27:23note that these violations persisted
4:27:25through multiple inspections from 2014
4:27:27to 2018 reflecting a systematic problem
4:27:31that requires immediate attention the
4:27:33inspection logs from 2022 which did not
4:27:36not overflow and build up materials in
4:27:38the ongoing issues observed of the
4:27:39containment building batch house as
4:27:41outlined in the sov other issues
4:27:44concerns highlight the pressing need for
4:27:46decisive action the community has voiced
4:27:49concerns about kco chronic toxic
4:27:51contamination and failure of state
4:27:52agencies to Shield them from such
4:27:54hazardous exposures the delay in the
4:27:56permit renewal process since 2015 is
4:27:59unacceptable especially considering the
4:28:01documented pollution and the associated
4:28:04risks of Resident lives the cleaning
4:28:06Coalition advocacy of the denial of Kos
4:28:08permit renewal underscores the
4:28:10significant resource disparity between
4:28:11the community and the company the lack
4:28:13of transparency accountability in the
4:28:15permitting decision is a glaring issue
4:28:17the community Demands a fair and
4:28:19thorough evaluation of keto's operations
4:28:21I implore the board of environmental
4:28:23safety to prioritize the community's
4:28:25concern and take immediate and
4:28:26appropriate measures to address the
4:28:28compliance issues at kco eoat including
4:28:31the distrust in temporary permits the
4:28:33health and well-being of the residents
4:28:35in the environment must be safeguarded
4:28:36through transparent and accountable
4:28:38decision-making process thank you for
4:28:40your attention on this critical matter
4:28:43um I have one two more comments left the
4:28:47next one is from Dale Stenberg my name
4:28:49is Dell Stenberg and I'm a resident
4:28:51aenda Heights I urge you to deny keto's
4:28:54temporary authorization request kco is
4:28:57dangerous polluter that continuously
4:28:59harms my community and must not be
4:29:00allowed to disregard public
4:29:02participation requirements we have been
4:29:04in the community since
4:29:061965 1965 Turnbull Canyon 1970 wallbrook
4:29:11Drive 1974 beachill Avenue I had
4:29:14endometrial cancer hysterectomy two
4:29:16young men two doors down suffered jaw
4:29:19cancer and died my daughter had
4:29:21aggressive type brain cancer and died on
4:29:241027 23 at the age of 53 a neighbor
4:29:28woman had cervical cancer and died two
4:29:30weeks ago we do not believe kco has been
4:29:32a good neighbor we feel it should be
4:29:34closed the next comment is from Marcel
4:29:37Sanchez hello my name is marsel I am a
4:29:39member of Clean Air Coalition a resident
4:29:41of La pente I urge you to deny K's
4:29:44temporary authorization request kco is
4:29:47dangerous polluter that continuously
4:29:49harms my community and must not be
4:29:51allowed to disregard public
4:29:52participation requirements I have a
4:29:54family member that lived within a mile
4:29:56of kco for more than 27 years and
4:29:58mysteriously got very ill one day last
4:30:00year and had to be taken to the
4:30:01emergency room immediately after being
4:30:04in the care of doctors she was diag
4:30:05noosed with kidney disease and now has
4:30:07to go on dialysis center regularly she's
4:30:10elderly lady but with a toxic polluter
4:30:12like kco just around the corner it makes
4:30:14sense that they gave her this illness
4:30:16rather than just falling ill because of
4:30:18old age I want the story to emphasize
4:30:21that kco should not be allowed to exist
4:30:22nearby homes and dtsc needs to stop
4:30:25being lenient with them a penalty fine
4:30:27and the continuation of keto's operation
4:30:29is not Justice and doesn't live up to
4:30:31dtsc standards of protecting communities
4:30:34from polluters kco is using the
4:30:36temporary authorization to disregard
4:30:38skip ignore the public participation
4:30:40process that would otherwise be provided
4:30:42through the normal permitting process if
4:30:44dtsc really cared about the community
4:30:46input it wouldn't allow this abuse of
4:30:48temporary authorization process use your
4:30:50authority to push dtsc to do better deny
4:30:53this temporary authorization request all
4:30:55right last
4:30:59one my name is Andre I'm a teacher and
4:31:02concerned parent I've been a resident of
4:31:04hasand heights my entire life and I'm
4:31:06writing to tell all of you at the bees
4:31:09not ask not nor urge to deny all and any
4:31:12permit kco eoat applies for they are the
4:31:15most dangerous polluter to exist here
4:31:17since exide look it up people in our
4:31:19community have died and filed lawsuits
4:31:22because of the specific DNA that is made
4:31:24with lead arsenic Benzene that has been
4:31:27scientifically proven to come from kco
4:31:29and ecob bat within a 2 mile radius not
4:31:32including the wind draft which drags it
4:31:34to other cities this this spreads to my
4:31:36job children's school and now with
4:31:38school closures my family is set up to
4:31:40live in a toxic waste dump we've been
4:31:42advocating for over a decade to shut
4:31:44them down it won't bring back the dead
4:31:47but it will prevent more deaths from
4:31:48happening our voices have been ignored
4:31:50for too long listen to the community no
4:31:53to any permit renewal
4:31:58Andre thank you so that concludes this
4:32:02public Comon period it is 618 uh we're
4:32:06just a few minutes over so I will now
4:32:08turn it back to chair
4:32:10Rizzo well thank you and thank you all
4:32:12for your active participation today we
4:32:15certainly did um hear a lot and I'm glad
4:32:19uh that we read off the written comments
4:32:21as well so everyone who wanted to
4:32:23comment I believe has had the
4:32:25opportunity to do that it's now the
4:32:27section of the meeting where we will
4:32:29call back um for closing final comments
4:32:33by eoat first then
4:32:35dtsc and then clean air Coalition
4:32:38represented by Earth justice so um I'll
4:32:41welcome back eoat reminder that that
4:32:45will follow uh we'll then have a um Q&A
4:32:51the board will start to deliberate and
4:32:53if they have questions of each other of
4:32:56any of you then we will ask them at that
4:32:59point and if there's anything you didn't
4:33:01get to when we cut you off before now is
4:33:03your 10-minute chance so
4:33:07just press the button down for like two
4:33:13seconds is it would it be possible to
4:33:16get my presentation put back up
4:33:19too I don't
4:33:21know
4:33:26uh I don't care
4:33:30what yeah I mean if you can get the
4:33:33presentation back up um that's
4:33:37fine I don't know if we can but why
4:33:39don't you get started because the
4:33:41clock's sticking it's fing it up
4:33:48yeah I'll get started while we're
4:33:50working on
4:33:52that is that better yeah okay
4:33:56sorry obviously lots of comments that we
4:33:59just received about uh this facility um
4:34:02covering a very Broad range of topics
4:34:06and I have 10 minutes to cover this so
4:34:09I'm not even going to attempt to try to
4:34:11respond to most of the issues that were
4:34:14raised instead I think it's really
4:34:16important and cherzo at the beginning of
4:34:18the public comment you reminded the
4:34:20speakers is let's stay focused on the
4:34:23the the issue at hand here which is the
4:34:25dewatering project and not just a
4:34:28general uh question of is the dewatering
4:34:31project a good idea should it be
4:34:32approved should it not be approved but
4:34:35it is a very specific question is did
4:34:38dtsc make a clearly erroneous conclusion
4:34:42of factor law when it decided that the
4:34:44dewatering project was necessary to
4:34:47enjoy an environmental um benefit
4:34:50project at this facility um and as we
4:34:54talked about previously and earlier the
4:34:56the the answer there is a clear no the
4:34:59the job of this board is not to replace
4:35:02dtc's judgment and making that
4:35:04determination is to to ask the question
4:35:07is was dtc's judgment clearly erroneous
4:35:09and we have heard nothing today that
4:35:11would that would change dtc's
4:35:14conclusion and again I want to remind we
4:35:16heard lots of concerns from members of
4:35:19the public about
4:35:22potential um or alleged actual
4:35:25environmental impacts that this facility
4:35:27is causing to this
4:35:28community this is a project that nobody
4:35:32disagrees will be a Ben benefit to the
4:35:35environment and will help protect the
4:35:37environment we heard a number of
4:35:39commenters talk about potential soil and
4:35:42groundwater impacts nobody is disputing
4:35:45the fact that the dewatering project is
4:35:47going to minimize significantly and if
4:35:50not eliminate the risk of soil and
4:35:53groundwater impacts from liquids uh
4:35:56being released from the containment
4:36:00building so in a sense the dewatering
4:36:03project is addressing some of the
4:36:05concerns that the community has raised
4:36:06today and I don't think we should lose
4:36:09sight of
4:36:27that and I want to just go back to where
4:36:30we ended I think in some of the Q&A with
4:36:32the potential timeline here is a
4:36:35granting this appeal is going to add at
4:36:38least another 12 months where we're
4:36:40going to continue to be storing this
4:36:41liquid on the floor of the containment
4:36:43building we're going to continue to
4:36:46have I personally and the technical
4:36:50folks that I work with think the risk is
4:36:51very low but we're going to continue to
4:36:54have an increased risk of a release from
4:36:56the containment building that could
4:36:57impact soil and ground water beneath the
4:36:59cont beneath a containment building
4:37:02operation of this equipment eliminates
4:37:04that RK so we are increasing the risk of
4:37:08of of of a release from the containment
4:37:10building for at least 12 months by not
4:37:13giving ecob bat temporary authorization
4:37:15to operate this equipment and another
4:37:19theme that we heard through the comments
4:37:21from the community again is the um
4:37:25concerns and I heard same concerns from
4:37:27a number of members of the board about
4:37:29public engagement and this was one of
4:37:32the things I got cut off on earlier
4:37:33because I talked to much on early topics
4:37:36in our presentation but I wanted to come
4:37:38back to that because this is not a case
4:37:41where we just submitted a temporary
4:37:43authorization request and tried to sneak
4:37:45this in without having any public
4:37:47engagement at this point in time we have
4:37:50gone through an initial temporary
4:37:51authorization that had an appeal we then
4:37:54had a full class two permitting process
4:37:57that had a public comment period at
4:37:59response to those public comments and
4:38:00then another appeal we then had this
4:38:03temporary authorization that is going
4:38:05through this appeal and we've seen
4:38:06extensive public engagement here and
4:38:08then we've also had a second class to
4:38:10permit modification request that had a
4:38:13public comment period dtsc is preparing
4:38:15responses to those comments and has now
4:38:17been transferred over to a class three
4:38:20um permit mod which requires yet another
4:38:22public comment period so in total we've
4:38:24had four Public Notices go out to the
4:38:26public about this uh permitting change
4:38:30we've had two 60-day public comment
4:38:32periods three public comments letter
4:38:34letters received from the appellant here
4:38:37CAC um two public meetings true being
4:38:41held by by ecobath that is the
4:38:43regulatory requirement these are public
4:38:44meetings that get held by eoat um in
4:38:47fact in the last public meeting eoat
4:38:50actually went out and I helped prepare
4:38:52responses some to uh directly to CAC
4:38:55members and uh Miss uh Johnson
4:39:00um the addressing questions that were
4:39:02raised at that meeting and attemp to
4:39:05engage and I offered to have additional
4:39:07discussions with them if they had
4:39:08questions the last time around again I
4:39:10got no response to that additional
4:39:11Outreach and then we've had three CAC
4:39:14appeals of each of those permitting
4:39:16approvals with over 70 pages of briefing
4:39:19so this is not we're we're not in a
4:39:21situation here where there has been a
4:39:24lack of of public opportunity for public
4:39:27input and public engagement here it is
4:39:30candidly other than a full permit
4:39:32renewal I cannot think of a single inst
4:39:35where I have done a permitting
4:39:37modification or permitting action where
4:39:39I've seen anything close to the level of
4:39:41public engagement we have here and this
4:39:43is for two pieces of equipment that are
4:39:46a significant Environ environmental
4:39:48Improvement for this
4:39:54facility and so with that I will well I
4:39:57guess before I go there um we also had
4:40:01reached out when we were in our um
4:40:04period of time where we couldn't process
4:40:06appeals um because the board was
4:40:08creating rules and had offered to the
4:40:11board is let's get everybody together
4:40:13let's have CAC sit down other members of
4:40:15the community the board dtsc and try to
4:40:19figure out a solution we had the
4:40:21president of uh eoat Craig Clark sent a
4:40:24letter I think it was to Cher Rizzo but
4:40:26it included all of the stakeholders that
4:40:28had been involved in this dewatering
4:40:30project and chizo you responded but
4:40:33other than that we got no responses from
4:40:34anybody so we have been trying to go
4:40:37above and beyond and to engage with
4:40:40members of the public and to understand
4:40:42how we can I mean I think this is a
4:40:45great project everybody that I know that
4:40:47I talk about with this project thinks
4:40:48it's a great project it's going to
4:40:49benefit the uh the environment
4:40:51environment dtsc has now found that
4:40:53three times I think this is something
4:40:56that everybody should be supporting and
4:40:58I'm eager for additional engagement in
4:41:00order to try to get people to that to
4:41:02that position and that conclusion and so
4:41:04I'll just conclude again reminding
4:41:07everybody this is a narrow issue that
4:41:09we're being asked to the board has being
4:41:10asked to decide here it is whether dtc's
4:41:13conclusions was clearly erroneous we
4:41:16have heard nothing from the presentation
4:41:18from CAC or in the briefs that were
4:41:20submitted by CAC um that rise to the
4:41:23level of supporting of finding that
4:41:25their decision was was clearly
4:41:30erroneous instead we ask that you deny
4:41:32the appeal it would allow allow eoat to
4:41:35operate this equipment for a period of
4:41:37188 180 days and don't forget that we
4:41:42have pending permitting actions
4:41:44undergoing we have this class three
4:41:46process that may move forward we also
4:41:49have the permit renewal both of those
4:41:51permitting processes include requests to
4:41:54operate the dewatering equipment so
4:41:56there will be additional opportunity for
4:41:58public engagement on this proper on this
4:42:00equipment before eoat is granted
4:42:04permanent
4:42:05authorization to operate this equipment
4:42:07thank you very much thank you
4:42:10Matt uh
4:42:26dtsc uh thank you again for an
4:42:28opportunity to provide some concluding
4:42:30remarks on behalf of dtsc Permitting uh
4:42:34similar to a few of the points that eoat
4:42:36was making overall the issue at hand is
4:42:39about the temporary authorization that
4:42:41the appeal was brought for by Clean Air
4:42:44Coalition and what we really need to
4:42:47look at is was dtc's decision clearly
4:42:52erroneous and as I said before clearly
4:42:55erroneous essentially means did we make
4:42:57a mistake and if you can't find that
4:43:01there was a clear affirmative way that
4:43:02dtsc made an error in their decision
4:43:06then the standard of review guides us
4:43:09towards denying this appeal and another
4:43:13important factor to just keep in mind is
4:43:16that this assessment should be looking
4:43:18at the facts that existed at the time
4:43:20that dtsc made its decision back in July
4:43:23of
4:43:242022 and there are a lot of um
4:43:28additional external issues that have
4:43:30been raised about eoat and about dtsc
4:43:34but they are not specifically about the
4:43:36temporary authorization that we're here
4:43:38to discuss today and that's the key
4:43:40piece that we need to be focused on um
4:43:43dtc's decision was reasonable it was
4:43:46supported by facts and it was not
4:43:49clearly erroneous and there were was no
4:43:51mistake made um it was done to resolve
4:43:54potential environmental risks there's
4:43:56been a lot of dialogue about that we're
4:43:58doing what we can to make sure and in a
4:44:02you know sooner approach to address
4:44:04those risks and a temporary
4:44:06authorization doesn't require an
4:44:09emergency the example given earlier
4:44:12today about a fire well that is not some
4:44:16well it's true that you could use a
4:44:17temporary authorization then it's not
4:44:19required that it's an emergency like a
4:44:21fire that is the only circumstance where
4:44:23temporary authorization is a valid
4:44:26response and that a rapid response is
4:44:28required it so it that's just an
4:44:31important piece to keep in mind and that
4:44:33ultimately d TSC is in charge of
4:44:35determining that a temporary
4:44:37authorization is necessary and a
4:44:39temporary authorization comes before
4:44:41another permit decision and that
4:44:43decision could be a modification or a
4:44:46decision about a renewal for a permit
4:44:49and so a temporary authorization just
4:44:51doesn't exist by itself and that's
4:44:53that's the process so overall clean air
4:44:56Coalition the appellant has not met its
4:44:58burden to show that dtc's decision was
4:45:01clearly erronous either in a finding of
4:45:03fact or conclusion of law has not shown
4:45:06the dtsc has made a mistake so based on
4:45:08the applicable laws and facts dtsc
4:45:11respectfully asks that the board denies
4:45:13this
4:45:13appeal and that is our um concluding
4:45:17position so thank you so much for your
4:45:18time thank you and just restate your
4:45:21name for the record Leo white right
4:45:24thank you thank you
4:45:26Leah okay now
4:45:31um Angela Johnson
4:45:52so I've got 10 minutes to wrap up after
4:45:55a long day with a lot of testimony and a
4:45:57lot of
4:45:58conversation and I've got a full table
4:46:01here of notes and stickies and comments
4:46:04I've got messages coming from Adam
4:46:06there's a lot that can there's a lot
4:46:09that can and probably should be
4:46:11said but
4:46:13alas we do not have the
4:46:17time so I'll just take us back to the
4:46:19beginning of our time here together and
4:46:22when I started my comments this
4:46:24afternoon we pointed out that our client
4:46:27sent us here to demand Integrity in the
4:46:31permit modification
4:46:33process and Central to Integrity is
4:46:37ensuring that no other community is
4:46:41required to go through this
4:46:43process in order to address her
4:46:48meetings unlawful and erroneous
4:46:52interpretation of the temporary
4:46:54authorization
4:46:55modification
4:46:58requirements please do not lose sight of
4:47:02this fact as you deliberate
4:47:05this
4:47:08evening permitting in quco would have
4:47:11you
4:47:13ignore the purpose that's clearly
4:47:17stated and that makes sense in the
4:47:21context of this
4:47:23regulation for the prop proper and
4:47:26appropriate use of a temporary
4:47:29authorization they've spent a lot of
4:47:31time talking about how important this
4:47:34project
4:47:36is they've even repeatedly argued that
4:47:39our client isn't denying any of that
4:47:42which is just factually
4:47:46untrue but regardless of their claim the
4:47:50reality is that it requires more than
4:47:54the assertion that your project is
4:47:56significant and important to rely on the
4:47:59temporary authorization
4:48:01process and that has nothing that's been
4:48:04said here changes or should obscure that
4:48:09reality it's clear as a matter of
4:48:13fact that dtsc made a permitting
4:48:16decision on this exact
4:48:19equipment and nothing that has been said
4:48:21here today has changed that fact and
4:48:26dtsc is
4:48:28assertion in its
4:48:30approval that they couldn't make a
4:48:32decision before doing before issuing
4:48:35this temporary
4:48:38authorization is just wrong it is
4:48:42clearly
4:48:45erroneous and the reality is that we've
4:48:47been here since
4:48:502021 having a conversation about this
4:48:53permitting
4:48:55request and you know back in February
4:49:002021 qua should have
4:49:02submitted a class
4:49:05three permit modification request
4:49:08they'll argue at least give me a class
4:49:09two but it should be a class three
4:49:11permit modification request that's where
4:49:13We've Ended up and if they had submitted
4:49:16that request back in February 2021 we'd
4:49:19have been through all of
4:49:22this when
4:49:24permitting had an opportunity to make a
4:49:27decision about that permitting request
4:49:28back in April 2021 they should have told
4:49:32quco to go through the
4:49:35process so they can't sit here now and
4:49:39insist that it's our
4:49:43appeals that is the impediment that they
4:49:46should get
4:49:48around it's
4:49:51improper and it strips not only
4:49:55dtsc of its
4:49:57credibility but it also results in
4:50:01people turning
4:50:02up to report to you about how what's
4:50:06been happening at this facility with
4:50:08dtsc for years has frustrated
4:50:12them has injured
4:50:15them and has resulted in them coming to
4:50:18the hend the Heights Community
4:50:22Center at
4:50:246:30 on December the 20 on November the
4:50:2829th to some people may say
4:50:32rant some people may say
4:50:35insist some people may say with focused
4:50:39determination to hold this agency to
4:50:44account and to not allow it to shift to
4:50:48the
4:50:49community the the harm that's caused by
4:50:54their
4:50:56choices so we still urge this
4:51:01board to use its
4:51:04ability to
4:51:06read to
4:51:09understand to
4:51:11hear to
4:51:14analyze to look at the information
4:51:17that's in the
4:51:19record verbally unug un augmented by
4:51:23information that was added today but
4:51:26look at the information that's before
4:51:28you look at the
4:51:30requirements look at the facts
4:51:34and make a deser
4:51:36determination based on your
4:51:39role as a board that was conceived of as
4:51:44a place to facilitate dtc's
4:51:49transition to being the agency that it
4:51:52in fact wants to be the agency that is
4:51:57careful that is
4:51:59deliberate that follows its regulations
4:52:03and resp respects the communities that
4:52:05host the facilities that it
4:52:07regulates thank
4:52:15you thank you Angela and thank you to
4:52:18all three of the parties doesn't feel
4:52:21much like a party but I think U all
4:52:25three parties have now had that
4:52:27opportunity we are going to have a 30
4:52:30minute opportunity and I am going to
4:52:33pass the mic to swappy I can keep it
4:52:37here you have another okay um the goal
4:52:40here now is uh to see what questions
4:52:43board members have uh and to direct them
4:52:47to any of the people at the three party
4:52:51tables um Andor to each other um as we
4:52:57deliberate um then we'll take a little
4:52:59bit of a break because it's always good
4:53:01to have coffee before you vote or
4:53:04something when it gets this late so um
4:53:06we will return reestablish a quorum and
4:53:10then continue our deliberation but right
4:53:13now it's time for questions from our St
4:53:15I just wanted to reiterate that the
4:53:17board members will ask questions either
4:53:20directly of staff and or of the parties
4:53:25but this isn't an opportunity to for
4:53:28everybody to respond to that question
4:53:30it's the specific person or party that
4:53:33the question is directed to from the
4:53:36board members so I ask the board to be
4:53:38as specific as possible when you are
4:53:40directing your questions
4:53:47please
4:53:51Alexis that end of the table
4:53:55again I have a question for Angela um
4:53:59throughout the presentations I saw you
4:54:01make
4:54:02Expressions just belief and I was
4:54:05particularly interested in whether you
4:54:08can
4:54:09clarify um something that is is written
4:54:12within your appeal regarding the um the
4:54:16installation of the
4:54:17equipment um I I'm still unclear about
4:54:22why it was
4:54:23installed um
4:54:26how was the first
4:54:29appeal
4:54:31um when was the what What's the timing
4:54:34like that that there that the there
4:54:37wasn't some sort of stay for the for the
4:54:40equipment to to you know not not have
4:54:43been installed I'm really confused about
4:54:50that this um might be a question that I
4:54:53can only partially
4:54:56answer it's our
4:54:59understanding based on comments made by
4:55:01permitting and by
4:55:04quco that they installed the equipment
4:55:08sometime after they granted after the
4:55:12after
4:55:12permitting um allowed the temporary
4:55:16authorization but before we appealed
4:55:20it I think that their
4:55:23argument is that a temporary
4:55:26authorization goes into effect
4:55:28immediately and so they quick like a
4:55:32bunny rushed out and installed the thing
4:55:36even
4:55:37though we have what 30 days to Violent
4:55:41appeal which is what we did so I believe
4:55:44that that is what would happen but there
4:55:48may be those who have clearer insight
4:55:50into that question I'll also just note
4:55:53quickly
4:55:55that when quco did its
4:55:58application it talked
4:56:00about it talked about anticipating a
4:56:04pause for some other work that needed to
4:56:07happen there and the permit peels
4:56:09officer notes this in his termination
4:56:12they talked about some pause that was
4:56:14coming up and there was a question about
4:56:16whether or not they'd be able to install
4:56:17this equipment during that pause but I
4:56:20don't know exactly when the equipment
4:56:22was installed it's just clearly there
4:56:24now and was that contested the
4:56:25installation of the equipment um
4:56:28irregardless of the uh ability to file
4:56:31an
4:56:32appeal
4:56:35[Music]
4:56:38um I think your I think your question is
4:56:42then in April of 2021 did CAC challenge
4:56:47the installation of the equipment we did
4:56:50not know that the installation of the
4:56:51equipment was going to occur I mean if
4:56:53they had I mean gosh all this time we
4:56:55would have we would have raised that so
4:56:58we didn't know that that was going to
4:56:59happen
4:57:01so they um we didn't have the ability to
4:57:04raise that got it thank
4:57:11you I have a question for
4:57:14Greg uh based on the administrative Greg
4:57:17is our staff attorney for those of you
4:57:19who weren't here earlier and he's being
4:57:22asked a
4:57:24question so based on the administrative
4:57:27record and what we heard today we know
4:57:29that the title 22 has a specific
4:57:31provision or part that allows dtsc
4:57:35to uh consider temporary authorizations
4:57:39for health and Environmental Protection
4:57:41reasons we also heard that
4:57:43dtsc asserting that they have the
4:57:46expertise to determine when to use this
4:57:48subart of
4:57:50provision but it's unclear to me that
4:57:53the use of the temporary authorization
4:57:55is clearly erroneous unless we establish
4:57:58that it is necessary to consider the
4:58:01dewatering unit as a separate
4:58:04uh issue from the broader permit
4:58:06modification issue at hand so my
4:58:09question for you um if you can just
4:58:11share with us what are the legal
4:58:12elements that dtsc is required to
4:58:14satisfy in issuing the temporary
4:58:15authorization thank you board member
4:58:18board member I'm happy to do that and if
4:58:20Gabrielle if you could help me out I
4:58:21actually have my own little slide deck
4:58:23that I'm going to refer to and so slide
4:58:26number three um if Gabriella could help
4:58:29us out and put that up there what this
4:58:31slide does is it summarizes the elements
4:58:34that are required for dtsc to issue a
4:58:37temporary
4:58:39authorization um and so the first bullet
4:58:42says the dtsc May Grant without prior
4:58:45public notice and comment a temporary
4:58:47authorization for a period of 180 days
4:58:50the decision to Grant or deny shall be
4:58:52made as quickly as practical and then as
4:58:54far as the elements that have to be
4:58:56satisfied that's the third bullet here
4:58:59so a B and C are three elements that are
4:59:02required ired to be met the first is
4:59:05that the activities meet the standards
4:59:07of chapter 14 the second that the
4:59:10request is exempt from or meets the
4:59:13elements of squa um neither of those
4:59:16have been disputed in this appeal really
4:59:18this appeal focuses on the third element
4:59:21and that one is one of necessity so the
4:59:25temporary authorization has to be found
4:59:28to be necessary to achieve one of five
4:59:31listed objectives and key terminology
4:59:34here is timing so that necessity is
4:59:39necessary before action is likely to be
4:59:42taken on a modification request so in
4:59:45asking the question as you just did you
4:59:47noted that this dewatering project has
4:59:50been decoupled from the permit renewal
4:59:53and so um how is it that dtsc can issue
4:59:57this ahead of the permit renewal and
5:00:00this element really speaks to that um
5:00:03Gabrielle if you could just Advance one
5:00:05more for
5:00:07me GRE will you just say what chapter 14
5:00:10is for people chapter 14 is just the
5:00:13standards that apply to hazardous waste
5:00:15management I think could uh
5:00:18paraphrase um and so in the hearing
5:00:22today we heard from lawyers on different
5:00:25sides about how this is interpreted um
5:00:27and there was comparisons to federal law
5:00:32and state law and I put this together
5:00:34just to show that um the Federal
5:00:38Regulation contains exactly the same
5:00:40language on this specific point it's
5:00:42verbatim the same um and so both the
5:00:46federal and the state rule says that um
5:00:50this timing element has to be satisfied
5:00:53and so the question really presented one
5:00:56of the main questions here is what level
5:00:58is required to satisfy that is it to the
5:01:02level of an
5:01:04emergency uh is it merely sort of
5:01:06urgency is it some kind of an exigency
5:01:09or is it a lower standard than that and
5:01:12clearly there has to be some showing
5:01:16that this can't wait and what we heard
5:01:20is that the waiting
5:01:23is certainly months possibly years and
5:01:27so what is it about this that can't wait
5:01:30and that's the determination that has to
5:01:32be made and so the focus needs to be on
5:01:36what the findings were that established
5:01:38that there was this exigency or urgency
5:01:40or timing that necessitated issuing this
5:01:44ahead of a longer
5:01:48process did that answer your question
5:01:51thank
5:01:54you keep going you're on a
5:01:57roll
5:01:59okay so we heard today that
5:02:03um the kco facility has a containment
5:02:06building where where this dewatering
5:02:09unit is going to be installed that
5:02:10containment building has already been
5:02:12permitted for holding these acous
5:02:16standing liquids we heard that we also
5:02:20heard then that because there's standing
5:02:23liquids hazardous waste um potentially
5:02:26hazardous waste there is an urgency to
5:02:29remove the aquous liquids from the floor
5:02:32so I'm I'm basically
5:02:35questioning um from the administrative
5:02:38record and what you heard
5:02:39today have we established then that the
5:02:42temporary authorization is required as a
5:02:45rapid response mechanism like what has
5:02:50changed well uh possibly again I could
5:02:53get some help from my handy slide deck
5:02:55here if you could Advance one more slide
5:02:57for me um
5:03:01Gabrielle so
5:03:03um uh actually let's let's advance to
5:03:07number
5:03:09eight number eight is the decision of
5:03:12the permit appeals officer in the
5:03:15initial appeal that considered this um
5:03:18and looked at the factual circumstances
5:03:21at that time when the uh temporary
5:03:24authorization was issued in
5:03:262021 and uh he concluded that because
5:03:30the facility had been in this
5:03:32conditioned where there were liquids on
5:03:35the floor of this containment building
5:03:37since at least 2001 he felt that kco had
5:03:40not explained why a temporary
5:03:42authorization is necessary he said well
5:03:45this condition's been there a while
5:03:46doesn't seem like it's a new thing so so
5:03:48why now I'm paraphrasing and he found
5:03:52that that was clearly erroneous and that
5:03:54was the basis for his decision and so in
5:03:57response to this then uh dtsc made
5:04:01specific findings when it approved this
5:04:04request the second time um and those
5:04:07findings weren't there the first time
5:04:09that that decision was made so Gabriella
5:04:11could we back up to number five please
5:04:15what I've done is broken that out so
5:04:18that we can just look through it
5:04:19carefully because there's essentially
5:04:22three things that dtsc said so the first
5:04:26one was that uh the temporary
5:04:29authorization necessary before actions
5:04:31taken autom mod ification because there
5:04:34were environmental improvements that
5:04:36were authorized and that that allows
5:04:38dtsc to continue continue its Mission
5:04:42and so we've heard more about that today
5:04:44that there's environmental benefits to
5:04:45these and it's consistent with dtc's
5:04:47approach as a regulator so that was
5:04:50essentially the first justification if
5:04:52you can give me the next slide um the
5:04:55next one was based on this new
5:04:58technology being available that new
5:05:00technologies are available from time to
5:05:02time and that dtsc is responsive to
5:05:04those new technologies by allowing
5:05:06temporary authorizations and that's a
5:05:07pathway
5:05:08forward the third justification was that
5:05:13the addition of these would allow kco to
5:05:16more safely manage its waste and that it
5:05:18would not suffer the delays associated
5:05:20with the permit modification I think we
5:05:22heard a lot of emphasis on that today as
5:05:25well so I see in there three basic
5:05:29justifications for it um
5:05:36so thank you so to recap those three
5:05:38justifications one is Environmental
5:05:40Protection second was new technology
5:05:43availability and the third is time so
5:05:47based on what I heard today on the
5:05:48administrative record I did not walk
5:05:51away with a clear timeline view that
5:05:54says that a new technology became
5:05:55available in 2021 or 2022 right before
5:05:59the temporary authorization and I tried
5:06:01to get to the question of when was the
5:06:03unit installed in a facility perhaps
5:06:04outside of California or when did the
5:06:06technology become available so I'm just
5:06:08asking you Greg based on your read of
5:06:11the administrative record did you see
5:06:13any timeline that can provided evidence
5:06:17to the fact that the new technology
5:06:19became
5:06:20available to ketco or was made available
5:06:24as an option to dtsc I'd love to give
5:06:27you an answer to that but I'm just a
5:06:29lawyer and I think you're going to need
5:06:31to hear from our engineer about
5:06:33go to Linda
5:06:34then um there are no documents in the
5:06:36administrative record that state or show
5:06:39demonstrate that this equipment was
5:06:41available at any point besides in the
5:06:51request you have more
5:06:55sushma
5:06:57that
5:07:01Alexis
5:07:08I'm not sure who my questions for you
5:07:10can help me direct
5:07:12it I'm still trying to figure
5:07:15out why we're on temporary authorization
5:07:19when we're either and maybe you all can
5:07:21answer that at dtsc for me
5:07:25um where you've got a facility that's
5:07:28had challenges right I'll just put it
5:07:33broadly and you've got settlement
5:07:36agreements that call for fixing the
5:07:38floor and getting rid of all the mess
5:07:42that's been trudging along for quite a
5:07:46long time then so instead of a permit
5:07:50renewal a permit mod that would allow
5:07:53for this to to to be executed we have a
5:07:57period of time that goes by and then
5:07:59suddenly it's urgent so I'm trying to
5:08:02understand the urgency for the temporary
5:08:05authorization outside of a permitting
5:08:08process that allows for a more folsome
5:08:11exploration of all of this by the public
5:08:16right by the communities impacted that
5:08:18they understand why is this um why is
5:08:22this good for me I mean we're hearing
5:08:24things that go much more broadly that I
5:08:26know that that's not our purview we are
5:08:29here only on the temporary authorization
5:08:32I hate to have to repeat that we may be
5:08:34back talking about a permit or a permit
5:08:36mod but right now we have to focus
5:08:39solely on the temporary
5:08:41authorization what made that so urgent
5:08:44that an alternative full on mod two or
5:08:48mod
5:08:49three wouldn't be Advanced to where we'd
5:08:53have a more fullsome process that's the
5:08:56part that I'm stuck on and I will ask
5:08:59dtsc and kco and
5:09:02let's I will ask right now I'm directing
5:09:05it at dtsc I know let's do one at a time
5:09:08that's why she took control of the mic
5:09:10because I really want to hear from
5:09:12everybody but you can help me with that
5:09:14start with dtsc um to answer that
5:09:21question thank you for that question the
5:09:24criteria does not require the scenario
5:09:29to have
5:09:30urgency the criteria only requires
5:09:34that a it is more timely than an action
5:09:38that could be taken on a permit decision
5:09:41so in our case you know we've done we've
5:09:44talked a lot about the temporary
5:09:45authorization and the permit
5:09:48modifications a temporary authorization
5:09:51does not modify the permit permit
5:09:54modifications are a separate category
5:09:56and that's why it takes so much longer
5:09:58because there's there's other criteria
5:10:01so
5:10:02the answer is that the criteria doesn't
5:10:05require urgency it's just that to use a
5:10:09temporary authorization we have to find
5:10:11that we could act on it quicker than we
5:10:14would if they had filed a permit
5:10:17modification request and that was
5:10:19accurate that was true at the time we
5:10:21made the decision because here we are
5:10:24today we're ready to make a decision now
5:10:27that's why we've uh prioritized permit
5:10:30decision in lie of the permanent
5:10:32modification I understand
5:10:37okay I would like to hear
5:10:40from yeah go ahead Georgette or did you
5:10:44not feel hello can you hear me
5:10:52yeah hello okay there you go so Jo can
5:10:56you go back because I really want to ask
5:10:58this question following the same sure
5:11:03does does does
5:11:06it so you make mention that it doesn't
5:11:09require an emergency right right does it
5:11:12preclude you does it preclude
5:11:15dtsc from defining how you make a
5:11:20decision on granting a temporary
5:11:22authorization as an emergency or not no
5:11:26so you could you just chose not to do
5:11:30you mean are you asking if we could have
5:11:34granted approval for an authorization
5:11:36fory it justify it by defining so it
5:11:41just it just feels like temporary
5:11:43authorization is a little
5:11:46bit it really is based on the
5:11:49interpretation and how you implemented s
5:11:52dtsc yes it is discretion is it's a
5:11:56discretion of dtsc so what precludes
5:12:00dtsc from defining this authorization as
5:12:05an
5:12:07emergency I don't fully understand your
5:12:10question but I'll I'll give it a shot um
5:12:13we we never thought of this as an
5:12:16emergency we thought of this as an
5:12:19opportunity to give a quicker
5:12:21authorization for an environmentally
5:12:25beneficial operation so adding the
5:12:28equipment is
5:12:30environmentally beneficial
5:12:32so it gives us a quicker authorization
5:12:34route to do that as opposed to waiting
5:12:37you know we're going to do a public
5:12:40we're going to evaluate through the
5:12:42regulations it's a much longer process
5:12:45we take their request we pair it up with
5:12:48all of the criteria in title 22 and we
5:12:50go through that analysis and then we end
5:12:53up with a decision that we go out with a
5:12:55draft decision with we get public
5:12:57comments on we do this uh as well for
5:13:00some things like like even permit
5:13:02modifications don't have uh public
5:13:06comment periods for example if a
5:13:08facility wants to change their emergency
5:13:10coordinator most people aren't going to
5:13:12have an issue with that you know that
5:13:15it's a name and a telephone number and
5:13:17so the regular regulations are very
5:13:19clear about a shorter process for those
5:13:22types of authorizations okay thank you
5:13:26thank okay I think that answers can I
5:13:28just follow on to you uh with one more
5:13:31so
5:13:32so given given the you've heard today
5:13:38but you've heard before today the
5:13:39concerns from
5:13:41Community around this facility right
5:13:45given that level of
5:13:47concern to not put them through a fullon
5:13:52modification or permit
5:13:57process help me understand as long as
5:14:00you're going to expedite permit a
5:14:03temporary permit coming up or a a permit
5:14:06draft coming up I'm still I still don't
5:14:09get why we wouldn't have gone why you
5:14:11wouldn't have gone in that direction
5:14:14rather than the temporary authorization
5:14:16that's I I remain stuck there and if
5:14:21somebody could unstick it that would be
5:14:23helpful well at that time so we're
5:14:25talking about at that time we were not
5:14:28ready with the permit decision but now
5:14:30we are we're ready to go out with a
5:14:33permit decision in Winter that is very
5:14:35close so we're prepared to do that and
5:14:38to address all of these concerns
5:14:41listened very carefully to the Public's
5:14:43concerns and we've heard it you know
5:14:45over and over again fundamental problem
5:14:47is that batch house Flor there's so many
5:14:50issues with kco that need to be resolved
5:14:53with a full permit decision and we're
5:14:55ready with that now we weren't ready
5:14:57with that back then that gave us an
5:14:59opportunity to give authorization for
5:15:01environmentally
5:15:03beneficial additions to their
5:15:06operations in the in the interim if that
5:15:11I hope that's respons that's the that's
5:15:13the same argument for the first
5:15:15temporary authorization before you had a
5:15:17full permit yes in process so that's
5:15:21that's where I'm just I can't trans I
5:15:24can't transition from it got issued once
5:15:28without the benefit of a full permit now
5:15:31it's being offered
5:15:33again and you do have a full permit in
5:15:36process so that that's a plus yeah right
5:15:39I mean it's not our intention to
5:15:42continue this it's Our intention to
5:15:45address this with the new permit
5:15:48decision and not with this
5:15:50authorization our all of the um the
5:15:54perspectives that we're offering today
5:15:55are about the decision that we made at
5:15:57the time back in
5:16:002022 we all really appreciate the fact
5:16:04that you've come to be um with us for
5:16:06hours to discuss this incredibly
5:16:08important matter that we're going to
5:16:10decide tonight you've been respectful of
5:16:13the times that have been allotted in
5:16:15both making your
5:16:17comments there's one matter at the
5:16:20moment where we have somebody making
5:16:22rude gestures on the camera and I would
5:16:24ask if people could be respectful and
5:16:27civil in this Democratic Society and let
5:16:30us continue with our hearing so that we
5:16:32can reach a very important decision this
5:16:35evening if we cannot achieve that our
5:16:38alternative is to not have the camera
5:16:40and simply the audio that wouldn't be
5:16:42good for everyone who's taken the time
5:16:44to participate so we have
5:16:47purposefully wanted this to be as
5:16:50transparent and participative as
5:16:52possible it's very significant for us
5:16:54this is our first perit appeal hearing
5:16:56and it will help us shape how we go do
5:16:59this for years to come so if you could
5:17:02please um help us make this a civil and
5:17:05respectful um Gathering we will very
5:17:08soon be completing our deliberations and
5:17:11re and making a decision thank you thank
5:17:13you thank
5:17:18you
5:17:21okay I I'd like to hear from each of the
5:17:24other two on that same
5:17:26question if there W if you're willing to
5:17:29comment and have go first and then we'll
5:17:34have or Justice
5:17:40after enough time has passed I want to
5:17:43make sure I I the question is still your
5:17:45question Sher Rizzo is this
5:17:49this this timing and sequencing
5:17:52question but can you can you rephrase it
5:17:55again for me because I'm we talked about
5:17:57a number of topics and then member Gomez
5:18:00had a question so I just want to make
5:18:01sure I'm answering the you're asking a
5:18:03lot now Matt sorry
5:18:05okay I'm I'm really trying to understand
5:18:08given the broad scope of issues that
5:18:11will be being dealt with in the permit
5:18:14yes in the permit renewal and the
5:18:16historical issues that have brought out
5:18:18so many people expressing concern why
5:18:22would we have a process a temporary
5:18:25authorization when you know there's a
5:18:27permit a mod three or a full permit
5:18:30right around the cor Corner a draft
5:18:32permit that will be coming out in which
5:18:34this could be more fully explored in
5:18:37public context um outside of a board
5:18:41meeting I mean the board hearing is the
5:18:44place where we're hearing all this right
5:18:46so why would we go forward with a
5:18:49temporary authorization now and not have
5:18:51it be incorporated into the main permit
5:18:54and I know you said time but if it's not
5:18:58urgent I'm I'm not hearing the urgency
5:19:01right where it's not urgent it might be
5:19:04important and it's not like it's not a
5:19:07good thing to have happened but in the
5:19:09broader context it just it it isolates
5:19:14one piece of the
5:19:16issue one could make the case that if
5:19:20the if the temporary
5:19:23authorization goes through the cas is
5:19:26made they'll be it'll take forever to
5:19:28get the full permit done as as opposed
5:19:31to that's part of the full permit I know
5:19:33you want to get that done so I'm
5:19:36everybody is trying to understand why
5:19:40this is so important now yeah so I'll
5:19:44back up quickly too I
5:19:47mean the premise of your question though
5:19:50is is sort of ignoring the fact that EPA
5:19:55and then adopted by
5:19:57dtsc have regulations that allow for
5:20:00temporary authorization
5:20:02that don't require urgency as Wayne was
5:20:04just getting to so I don't I don't want
5:20:06us to get caught up on this urgency
5:20:09issue
5:20:10but I I will I will allow myself to get
5:20:13caught up in the urgency issue a little
5:20:14bit you know we were talking earlier I
5:20:17can't remember which board member asked
5:20:19the um the question about the
5:20:21installation of the equipment but the
5:20:23equipment was installed immediately upon
5:20:26getting an approval because there was a
5:20:28real urgency to address address the
5:20:31concerns that were coming out of the
5:20:33community about the liquids on the batch
5:20:35house floor again this was enforcement
5:20:38that began in 2016 and we went through
5:20:40years of discussions with dtsc about how
5:20:43we were going to address this and this
5:20:45is a work in progress and then the
5:20:47dewatering equipment came up and I I was
5:20:51personally involved in it it was an aha
5:20:53moment of oh my gosh this totally
5:20:56addresses part of the concern with the
5:20:58leak the containment building floor
5:21:00will'll remove the liquids from the
5:21:01floor this is great unfortunately then
5:21:05the you know the the client says let's
5:21:07install it tomorrow and I had to be the
5:21:09lawyer and say time out this is
5:21:11treatment we need to go through a
5:21:12permitting process for this but we
5:21:14worked with with dtsd permitting and
5:21:17they were very very receptive and we
5:21:19were looking for ways to make this
5:21:21happen as quickly as possible again
5:21:23because this was a Enforcement issue
5:21:26that had been outstanding for years that
5:21:28had a lot of public attention to it
5:21:31and we wanted both parties wanted to
5:21:33address it as quickly as possible so
5:21:35there was in fact urgency again there
5:21:37doesn't need to be urgency but there was
5:21:39urgency in this case I understand your
5:21:41perspective thank you I have a question
5:21:43clarification question okay so you're
5:21:45saying that there was a lot of public
5:21:47concern and that's why there was this
5:21:49urgency right and we've seen the slides
5:21:51that during the temporary authorization
5:21:53process rather than the mod 2 or the the
5:21:56full permit process the public
5:21:58participation is different so if there
5:22:00is concern from the public why not go
5:22:05over and involve them in that process
5:22:08even though that requirement isn't there
5:22:10if the request is truly coming from the
5:22:13public why not involve them through that
5:22:15process so to be to clarify though the
5:22:18public concern was being
5:22:20voiced prior to the the submission of
5:22:23the tempor authorization the tempor
5:22:24authorization was purely a reaction to
5:22:27that and I we maybe we're naive when we
5:22:31submitted it but we thought and I dtsc
5:22:34in my discussions with them thought the
5:22:36same thing is man this is a great
5:22:38solution everybody's going to love this
5:22:40so we didn't come into this really until
5:22:43at least From eat's perspective there
5:22:45was an appeal that was filed after the
5:22:47approval I we had no visibility that
5:22:50this was a project that was going to be
5:22:51controversial we thought this was a
5:22:53great outcome it was a significant
5:22:56environmental Improvement project
5:22:58there's not going to be opposition to
5:23:00this so if
5:23:01surprised us when we got the appeal that
5:23:03was filed after the fact so it's a fair
5:23:06question but it just didn't okay we
5:23:08didn't anticipate the level of of
5:23:11opposition that we're
5:23:12seeing okay and that was the first
5:23:14appeal so what about the second well
5:23:16that was a class two permit mod process
5:23:19that have the public participation
5:23:21process thank
5:23:22you thanks thank
5:23:28you do you have a a response respon to
5:23:33that okay well I asked all three of them
5:23:36to respond to that
5:23:44so I guess I'm in the major leagues
5:23:51now three points
5:23:56first we didn't say that it needed to be
5:23:59an emergency we didn't say that the
5:24:02regulation requires an emergency there's
5:24:04a whole set of regulations that deal
5:24:05with
5:24:07emergencies that's not this what we said
5:24:10is they need need to have an explanation
5:24:13there needs to be a thing that's more
5:24:16than just if we don't do any public
5:24:18participation we can get the decision
5:24:20done more quickly it
5:24:23just that's not that's not what the
5:24:27regulation um is or does second
5:24:32second the permit um the temporary
5:24:37authorization process is a
5:24:41subsection of 66
5:24:4627042 it
5:24:48is
5:24:49permit it is permits um at the request
5:24:53of a
5:24:55permit for permit modifications at the
5:24:58request of a
5:24:59permit
5:25:03it's not something that stands outside
5:25:05of
5:25:08requests for
5:25:10modification
5:25:12so let me calm myself down and refocus
5:25:15and say this one more
5:25:17time the regulation says that the
5:25:21temporary authorization is necessary to
5:25:23achieve one of the following objectives
5:25:27before
5:25:29um before action is likely to be taken
5:25:34on a modification request on a
5:25:37modification request not a full permit
5:25:41renewal not some other kind of thing
5:25:43that needs to
5:25:45happen but it's in the context of a
5:25:49modification request and now what I hear
5:25:52is we're drifting into this world or
5:25:54we're going to use this temporary
5:25:55authorization while we're getting
5:25:57ourselves together to issue the full
5:26:00permit renewal it's just an improper use
5:26:03of this
5:26:05tool
5:26:10third what EPA was trying to
5:26:16do was they were trying to strike a
5:26:19balance they were acknowledging that
5:26:23public participation is
5:26:25critical and they also we acknowledging
5:26:28sometimes things happen that you have to
5:26:30respond too quickly and so sometimes you
5:26:33have to weigh those
5:26:36things it does require it to just be it
5:26:40requires it to be more than just we
5:26:43could go
5:26:44faster and if PCO and permitting were
5:26:48talking about this amongst themselves
5:26:51and if they wondered what the community
5:26:53thought they could have done a
5:26:55notification of a Class 2 permit
5:26:57modification and maybe everybody would
5:26:59show it up here in like this is awesome
5:27:02let's get it
5:27:04done but that's not what happened and
5:27:08so they purport being surprised but they
5:27:11did not need to be surprised and I'll
5:27:13make one last sub point to that when
5:27:15they posted in 2021 that they were doing
5:27:19this even though there's not a public
5:27:21comment perod associated with it Byron
5:27:25Chan wrote to dtfc to say don't do this
5:27:30what's
5:27:31happening so it didn't come entirely out
5:27:34of the blue thank you for
5:27:43thatman you're
5:27:48trying I have a question uh of
5:27:52Wayne or for
5:27:54Wayne so just to recap where we are as
5:27:58you're walking up I've heard that
5:28:01there is no renewed sense of urgency
5:28:04aside from continuing to address the
5:28:06corrective actions that came out of
5:28:082016 we've also heard that uh based on
5:28:12the administrative record and what we
5:28:13heard today it's not necessary to treat
5:28:16the ding unit
5:28:19separately so putting those two things
5:28:21together then we are making a call that
5:28:24bypassing Community
5:28:26engagement uh the benefit of bypassing
5:28:29Community engagement outweighs the risks
5:28:32of potentially driving a different
5:28:33outcome through the full community
5:28:35engagement process so my first question
5:28:38is is that the argument are you does
5:28:41dtsc believe that in this particular
5:28:42case the temporary authorization
5:28:44mechanism the benefits of using it
5:28:47outweigh the risks that's my first
5:28:49question so I would say at that time in
5:28:532022 we made that determination we're
5:28:56not asking you to consider giving them
5:29:00in any kind of authorization today
5:29:03that's not what we're asking we're
5:29:05asking that you look at the decision
5:29:07that we made in
5:29:082022 and determine whether that was
5:29:11appropriate or
5:29:13not right and my this brings a broader
5:29:16question for me which is what is the
5:29:19purpose of community engagement through
5:29:21the permit process if you can speak a
5:29:23little bit to why do you think Community
5:29:25engagement is
5:29:26necessary it yes absolutely it is
5:29:29necessary
5:29:31and that's why um we're gearing up for a
5:29:35draft permit decision so and that's
5:29:39where we're going to have you know all
5:29:40of the comments that we heard today most
5:29:43of the comments that we got today were
5:29:45things that we want to hear in the
5:29:48permit decision many of them were not
5:29:50applicable to the temporary
5:29:52authorization request that was given to
5:29:54us in
5:29:552022 but those are the things that we
5:29:58want to hear when we move forward with
5:30:00the draft permit decision in Winter
5:30:03those are very important to us we value
5:30:05public input from everyone and we don't
5:30:09shy away from it so our our own
5:30:12regulations require us to go through a
5:30:14process where we consider it and we take
5:30:16the time to respond to all of the
5:30:18comments that were given to us so I mean
5:30:21I'm not saying that we we don't want
5:30:23comments about the dewatering equipment
5:30:25the dewatering equipment may be the
5:30:28subject of the draft permit renewal
5:30:30because it is actually in the permit
5:30:32application so moving forward if we make
5:30:35a draft permit decision it will include
5:30:38the proposal to operate that
5:30:42equipment okay so so my mental model now
5:30:45is one there's no renewed urgency two uh
5:30:50we could we value Community engagement
5:30:53and in fact DTS uses that as as it
5:30:56designs the permit um application not
5:30:59application but resp Bond or decision
5:31:02and then we've also established then
5:31:03that it's not necessary to treat the
5:31:04dewatering unit
5:31:06separately so can you can you expound on
5:31:10separating the dewatering equipment the
5:31:13question of why the dewatering unit is
5:31:15being treated separate from the broader
5:31:17permit application oh okay but follow on
5:31:20question which is when I recognize that
5:31:23it's the permit holders decision to use
5:31:26a mechanism right I'm I'm assuming in
5:31:27this case kco came to you with a
5:31:29temporary authorization request they may
5:31:31have chosen to come to you with a permit
5:31:33modification
5:31:35request help help us understand when a
5:31:38permit holders making a decision do they
5:31:39typically reach out to dtsc and ask for
5:31:41guidance and say here's our situation
5:31:43what what venue would you like us to
5:31:45pursue and what what does that
5:31:47collaboration look like that depends on
5:31:49the operator I mean some are more
5:31:51knowledgeable about regulations and
5:31:54available processes than others um and I
5:31:57don't know what happened at that time I
5:32:00don't know if we gave them guidance or
5:32:01not but um as far as the separation of
5:32:04the dewatering equipment from the rest
5:32:06of the permit stuff we don't think that
5:32:08we need to separate that now our
5:32:11position right now is that let us make a
5:32:13decision on that with the draft permit
5:32:16decision it's more appropriate now for
5:32:18us to throw that into the draft permit
5:32:21decision but at the time in
5:32:242022 we were in a different state we
5:32:26weren't ready with the permit decision
5:32:28and so it made sense for us
5:32:30to issue that approval back then thank
5:32:33you so while we have you one other
5:32:35question in the administrative record
5:32:37there was some um reference to how the
5:32:41unit was perhaps expedited to coincide
5:32:44with the plan shutdown that ketco had
5:32:47can you just address this and tell us
5:32:49was the unit approval did was the unit
5:32:52installed during the shutdown if yes was
5:32:54the temporary authorization rushed in
5:32:56some way to allow that to happen and was
5:32:59there some the basis for why a full
5:33:02community engagement wasn't
5:33:04considered well I can most definitely
5:33:07definitely say that it wasn't rushed to
5:33:10coincide with the planed shutdown for
5:33:12sure I mean usually the case with us is
5:33:15that um we're delayed more than we think
5:33:18that we are going to be at the time so
5:33:20it's usually we're falling behind but
5:33:23um but I do remember that plan shut down
5:33:26it was an opportunity there was a
5:33:28discussion about using that that
5:33:30opportunity to perhaps install the
5:33:32equipment at the same time but it wasn't
5:33:35coincided with our approval at all thank
5:33:38you Georgette all right this is D dtsc
5:33:42once again and this will be the last
5:33:44that I can try to ask and see if I can
5:33:47get a different response or sh uh shed a
5:33:50little bit of
5:33:52light you you keep mentioning we're
5:33:55ready now to go through the full like
5:33:57the proper process but in 20 in 2022 we
5:34:01weren't which is why we we approve the
5:34:06temporary
5:34:07Authority I'm still not
5:34:10[Music]
5:34:11hearing I'm still not understanding the
5:34:14why in 2022 aside from you weren't ready
5:34:18for the full
5:34:20process okay can you speak can you speak
5:34:23more to that yeah and I'm sorry and I
5:34:26understand the health and safety aspect
5:34:29of it I think um I think what I'm
5:34:32hearing we could have accomplished that
5:34:34with the proper process so hopefully we
5:34:37can insert more because I'm not hearing
5:34:41it okay and I'm sorry that's my fault I
5:34:44know you keep asking the same question
5:34:46and
5:34:49I thank you I'm sorry I'm
5:34:51asking so thank you so much just going
5:34:53to ask for order this is a hearing I
5:34:56know everybody has thoughts and feelings
5:34:59but
5:35:00let's focus on the questions and the
5:35:02answers we had ample opportunity for
5:35:05public comment thank you so as far as
5:35:08regret we didn't reg we're not
5:35:11regretting that decision now we thought
5:35:13it was very appropriate to do that I
5:35:15don't say regret I'm trying to
5:35:17understand the
5:35:18rationale that dtsc made in
5:35:212022 Beyond this the health and
5:35:25safety beyond what you have stated so
5:35:28far if you can at elaborate because if
5:35:31that's that's all there is you can just
5:35:32say that's all there is that that is
5:35:35yeah it's saf thank you
5:35:39yeah
5:35:41Alexis thank
5:35:44you I just wanted to make an observation
5:35:47about
5:35:49how in a a facility like this one that
5:35:53in recent years is much more prominent
5:35:57and there will be others throughout the
5:35:58state that fit this category as well
5:36:01it's so difficult now that the board has
5:36:03a role in hearing perit appeals that had
5:36:07here to for been with dtsc given the
5:36:10timing that we have it it's so hard to
5:36:15um make the process work as good
5:36:18government for a temporary authorization
5:36:21because temporary authorizations as
5:36:22everyone has heard are meant to be
5:36:24something that is quite Nimble and
5:36:27affects a good outcome and in this case
5:36:30um we are running headlong into
5:36:32something that has occurred in recent
5:36:34years and is coming up against a perit
5:36:37renewal or a permit decision I should
5:36:40say and and here we are trying to decide
5:36:42something from over a year ago so I hope
5:36:45that what's at stake here is is
5:36:48understandable but what I'm getting at
5:36:50um in a long-winded way is that I think
5:36:54that going
5:36:55forward using temporary authorizations
5:36:59even more judiciously where it is a
5:37:02facility with quite some Community
5:37:04engagement is an important consideration
5:37:07at the front end um because we don't
5:37:09want the board to be at the back end of
5:37:11an appeal and and making everything go
5:37:14much more slower than was originally
5:37:16intended we don't have a good feel on
5:37:18how many temporary authorizations
5:37:20generally get used in a given year or
5:37:22issued in a given year and Wayne had
5:37:25said very few so I think it's just
5:37:28something for all of us as we try and
5:37:29wrap our hands around how hazardous
5:37:32waste is managed in the state how the 72
5:37:34to 74 facilities may or may not at times
5:37:38need a temporary authorization this is
5:37:40an example of of how the good intention
5:37:43of the regs runs up against a newly
5:37:46created board and a a process that has
5:37:49dragged it out um and so I I appreciate
5:37:52your Indulgence in this regardless of
5:37:54the decision that comes out but my main
5:37:56message is let's let's try hardly ever
5:37:59to use use them where um where it seems
5:38:03that there is a community that's engaged
5:38:05and and wants more about the process
5:38:08that can be delivered in a class two or
5:38:10three permit mod or a full-on permit
5:38:13renewal decision but that's that's not a
5:38:15question it's more just an observation
5:38:18as we've all struggled with this no
5:38:20thank you for that any other board
5:38:23questions of each other or of our staff
5:38:27um Linda and Greg in particular do you
5:38:29have anything you want to add to our
5:38:31thinking before we do a 10-minute mental
5:38:34break and uh finish our 15 minutes and
5:38:38finish our
5:38:40deliberations I think no other questions
5:38:43for people no
5:38:48I okay no questions from the board for
5:38:51each other or for our
5:38:53staff do you have something Evelyn
5:38:56because we're going to take a break
5:38:58now
5:39:01right thank you I just wanted to take
5:39:03note of the time um it is now 7:25 would
5:39:06you like to call for a 10 or 15 minute
5:39:08break we have some wiggle wiggle room
5:39:11with time are we fine with the facility
5:39:14because we're running over yes can we
5:39:15stay here all night okay good um okay
5:39:19we'll we'll take 15 minutes and then
5:39:22we'll come back and continue our
5:39:24deliberations and take a vote thank okay
5:39:27thank you the board will be back in a
5:39:29Brisk 15 minutes thank you okay it is
5:39:32now 7:44 U Madam chair we maintain
5:39:35Quorum by having all members present
5:39:38thank
5:39:39you okay uh are there any further
5:39:44discussions that board members want to
5:39:46have with each other or with our staff
5:39:49we're now you're all witnesses to us now
5:39:53we're not engaging we're just discussing
5:39:55amongst ourselves any other questions
5:39:58comments
5:40:06to make a motion but I can I have uh you
5:40:09should make make your
5:40:12comments I'll do that then recording in
5:40:15progress okay I think lazette has
5:40:18offered
5:40:21to noit oh you'll wait and make your
5:40:24comments when you vote okay sushma it's
5:40:27just Q&A QA I know but Q and A there's
5:40:29no q's and
5:40:39a
5:40:43pardon
5:40:45okay well there
5:40:48isn't um for the record can you repeat
5:40:50that you've reached Quorum I was not
5:40:52recording at the
5:40:54time okay thank you so at 7:44 board
5:40:59returned from Break
5:41:02um and we maintain quum by having all
5:41:04members
5:41:05present Again by acknowledging
5:41:09um I'm sorry you're acknowledging that
5:41:12that the meeting is being you're being
5:41:13recorded by continuing to participate
5:41:16thank
5:41:17you thank
5:41:19you okay I understand sushma you are
5:41:22prepared to um introduce a
5:41:28motion
5:41:35think before I introduce a motion if I
5:41:36may just talk recap where we are and
5:41:41also thank everyone that's showed up
5:41:44today all of the community groups btsc
5:41:48eoat I've certainly learned a lot and
5:41:51I'm sure I speak for the rest of the
5:41:52board that we've all learned a lot and
5:41:55appreciate the complexities of the
5:41:57permitting process and every stakeholder
5:42:00that has to engage in the permitting
5:42:01process both as community and as permit
5:42:04holders uh clearly there's um a lot more
5:42:08we can all do together to improve upon
5:42:10this process we've also learned a lot
5:42:12about ketco eoat and how you are
5:42:16continuing to make improvements and how
5:42:18you are committed
5:42:19[Music]
5:42:20to environmental and health protection
5:42:23and continuing to operate in the state
5:42:24of
5:42:25California today we are debating
5:42:27something very narrow which is the
5:42:30appeal made by cleaner
5:42:32Coalition uh about the process of the
5:42:36mechanism
5:42:37used to make sure that the processing
5:42:40mechanism of the temporary authorization
5:42:42is legitimate is Health protective and
5:42:45is also not inadvertently
5:42:49pitting human Public Health against
5:42:52Community
5:42:54engagement because that would create um
5:42:57sort of circular reference
5:42:59in that if we prioritize Public Health
5:43:03uh and sacrifice Community engagement
5:43:06Community engagement is essentially
5:43:08aimed at also driving Health
5:43:10protection so this is the issue we're
5:43:13debating
5:43:14and based on what I've heard today I'm
5:43:17ready to make a
5:43:19motion I move to Grant the appeal from
5:43:22cleaner
5:43:24Coalition because I find that the
5:43:26decision to Grant the temporary
5:43:28authorization to eoat in
5:43:302022 was clearly erroneous because there
5:43:33was not enough evidence to establish the
5:43:37necessity of rapid
5:43:41response is there anyone to second that
5:43:49motion this is member Ruiz I
5:43:52second do you have any comment with your
5:43:56second as somebody who grew up uh
5:43:59less than two miles of the exite
5:44:01facility I can understand why the
5:44:04community is skeptical when it comes to
5:44:05anything happening at kedal for the
5:44:07reason for this reason that I I believe
5:44:10that um mending Community Trust and
5:44:14creating a meaningful Community
5:44:15engagement process should have been
5:44:17conducted when issuing the temporary
5:44:21authorization where is the line drawn
5:44:23when granting a temporary authorization
5:44:25for equipment that is set to protect
5:44:27human health and the environment
5:44:29temporary permits need scrutiny and
5:44:31community
5:44:33members and interested parties need to
5:44:35be heard and included when any permit is
5:44:39issued in especially in a site as
5:44:42contentious as
5:44:47ecobo the illusion
5:44:51that eoat will be granted a permanent
5:44:54authorization to me seems problematic
5:44:57because um
5:45:01um it
5:45:05technically
5:45:08it's I'm I'm questioning how the
5:45:11community input has been taken into
5:45:14account and to
5:45:20me the argument that there has been
5:45:22ample public common opportunities seems
5:45:25misleading as these opportunities
5:45:28happened at after dtsc had already
5:45:30issued the temporary
5:45:31authorization um for that reason I'm I'm
5:45:34agreeing with my colleague sushma um and
5:45:38I second this her
5:45:40motion thank you for that uh we have a
5:45:43motion in a second
5:45:52Georgette hello hello okay um so I too
5:45:57want to thank everybody um in
5:45:59participating this in this process um
5:46:04and I'm going to start with also
5:46:06supporting the motion um and and really
5:46:09I tried multiple times in asking the the
5:46:15the reasoning as to um as to why this
5:46:20process
5:46:21was was um utiliz at the time and I
5:46:25couldn't find the rationale I couldn't I
5:46:29I I I I I asked I couldn't uh hear
5:46:33anything that really Justified it um
5:46:37both from eoat and dtsc on the temporary
5:46:40authorization request and because of
5:46:43that I support the PE requests from CAC
5:46:47the permitting process needs to be
5:46:49protected and respected especially since
5:46:52we are here to protect health and safety
5:46:56of the residents and the environment
5:46:59and we're asking residents to
5:47:02participate in this
5:47:03process I strongly believe and and
5:47:06really
5:47:08creating a public process to to really
5:47:11be utilized in such way and because of
5:47:14that I I strongly believe that we should
5:47:18upheld the permitting process whether
5:47:20being temporary or regular process and
5:47:24and we really need to ensure that we're
5:47:26creating clear
5:47:29definitions because I think it's a
5:47:31slippery slope that brings us to where
5:47:33we are right now based on personal
5:47:37rationale I don't think uh is is a good
5:47:40reason and and I hope that
5:47:43dtsc
5:47:45um will hopefully take this opportunity
5:47:48for future to really Define a stronger
5:47:52understanding on how these processes are
5:47:54being utilized and not leave it up to
5:47:58interpret ation uh just because that is
5:48:01really risky and it's not the right the
5:48:04right way to make
5:48:06decisions so um this time around I think
5:48:10we we really need to upheld a process
5:48:14and really ensure the to community
5:48:17members
5:48:19that that the department is here to
5:48:22protect the health and safety of the
5:48:24community and these processes are going
5:48:26to lead to that if we're asking them to
5:48:28participate at in in trust so because of
5:48:31that I support this this this
5:48:34motion thank you Georgia uh
5:48:42Alexis as everyone appreciates we have a
5:48:45narrow issue on appeal here was the 2022
5:48:49temporary authorization decision
5:48:53appropriate was it appropriate at that
5:48:55time based on the record that we have
5:48:58was there a clearly erroneous use of
5:49:01that temporary authorization
5:49:04Authority it's as dtsc noted it is
5:49:07different than the question of what
5:49:09would be appropriate now in November of
5:49:132023 I do agree with the approach and
5:49:19the temporary authorization that dtsc
5:49:22issued and I do not feel that there was
5:49:25a clearly erroneous use of the temporary
5:49:29authorization thank you for your hand
5:49:32gestures continuing on it
5:49:36is the way forward is certainly vexing
5:49:38and I'm hopeful that the
5:49:41forthcoming perit decision the draft
5:49:44perid issuance will be an appropriate
5:49:48Way Forward I do think that equipment to
5:49:51better manage the liquids is a very
5:49:53important part of this operation and it
5:49:55needs to be done in a way with all of
5:49:58the considerations that have been
5:50:01mentioned with regard to community
5:50:03engagement so I do support the action
5:50:06that dtsc took and um am not in support
5:50:09of the motion but with all respect for
5:50:12the consideration that my colleagues
5:50:14have given it and the parties have
5:50:16presented to us
5:50:18tonight okay thank you um I support the
5:50:23motion to um endorse the appeal and so I
5:50:28think we have four votes in favor of the
5:50:33appeal and uh yes we should call the
5:50:35vote I think we heard from everybody all
5:50:38those in favor of um what's the language
5:50:41I'm supposed to use sorry I am Madam
5:50:44chair would you like to call I want to
5:50:46restate the
5:50:47motion that's what I'm looking for to
5:50:49call the
5:50:51vote go ahead and restate the motion and
5:50:53then I'll call roll uh from left to
5:50:55right for the
5:50:57vote did did you want to reate the
5:51:00motion or I would like somebody
5:51:02to
5:51:08okay I can't remember what the final
5:51:11order says here's the
5:51:15final so the motion is to Grant the
5:51:19appeal from cleaner
5:51:22Coalition I made a motion the motion is
5:51:25to
5:51:27right uh do you me to read the whole
5:51:29thing go ahead yeah so I moved to Grant
5:51:32the appeal from clean air Coalition
5:51:34because um we agree that the decision to
5:51:37Grant the temporary authorization to
5:51:38eoat in 2022 was clearly
5:51:41erroneous uh because there was not
5:51:43enough evidence to establish the
5:51:46necessity of rapid
5:51:48response thank you uh all those in favor
5:51:52of that motion
5:51:54Georgette obviously s made the motion
5:51:58yes okay and I vote I
5:52:02yes and I vote no okay thank you so that
5:52:08is four eyes and one
5:52:12knee so the motion
5:52:23passes the
5:52:26um okay thank
5:52:30you all right I hate to call you back to
5:52:34order but I think I have to um there is
5:52:38a draft final order that um I'm
5:52:42directing the staff to complete the
5:52:45final order um with the rationale the
5:52:48draft final order was posted um with the
5:52:53two options for either adopted or not
5:52:56and so we've adopted that motion and the
5:53:00staff needs to augment that with the
5:53:03rationals that were given and post it on
5:53:06the website right yeah so within 30 days
5:53:09yeah uh let me just if I may oh please
5:53:12correct me so uh for all those here we
5:53:16had a draft final order that was put out
5:53:19uh before this hearing and in there is
5:53:21basically a placeholder where we're
5:53:23going to be dropping in findings those
5:53:26are going to basically summarize what
5:53:28you heard here today and uh we're going
5:53:30to do our best to get that out as soon
5:53:32as we can we we likely will have that
5:53:35out before the 30 days but you'll be
5:53:37seeing that from us and that will um be
5:53:40obviously uh what what you heard here
5:53:42today um with uh you know put in put in
5:53:46more written format but the final order
5:53:48goes into effect immediately so the vote
5:53:50has been taken the order is in and now
5:53:54the paperwork will commence from here
5:53:56and I know for some people people this
5:53:58is dis disappointing for others it's
5:54:01just the beginning of the next process
5:54:03and so I'm really hoping that in the
5:54:05next process our level of participation
5:54:08and engagement um and hopefully um the
5:54:13board won't have to hear another appeal
5:54:15uh because that the process on the on
5:54:18the permitting will will now proceed so
5:54:21I want to thank eat dtsc and clean air
5:54:25Coalition Earth Justice for for this day
5:54:30this very deep and robust participation
5:54:33and all of you who attended who were
5:54:35really mostly very well behaved um so I
5:54:39thank you for that um we've had a few
5:54:42Donnie Brooks at our meetings so I'm
5:54:44really grateful that everybody was
5:54:46pretty contained and it was a long day
5:54:50uh but we heard you and we heard you and
5:54:54um I hope everybody appreciates that
5:54:58we're doing what we were designed to do
5:55:02which is to hear from everybody so thank
5:55:04you very much uh the meeting is can I
5:55:07get a motion to attour Madam chair oh
5:55:09yes I want to acknowledge our staff
5:55:11please join in you've cheered for a lot
5:55:14of things the staff from CSUS the dtsc
5:55:18staff Cal recycle the
5:55:20interpreters that you pardon and the
5:55:25community center staff so let's thank
5:55:28everybody it was a big day thank
5:55:32you and oh and I hope you all come back
5:55:35tomorrow for a really exciting Board of
5:55:38environmental safety day where there's a
5:55:40lot of information and a lot of
5:55:42presentations that I think um stay
5:55:45engaged with us okay we came to your
5:55:47community we'd like to see you come back
5:55:50so the meeting is adjourned thank
5:55:53you the meeting is adjourned at 8:01 pm
5:55:56thank you

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