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Dr. Josh Axe: Why Your "Normal" Bloodwork Is Lying to You and What to Test For Instead | TUH #292 — Transcript

by Ultimate Human Podcast with Gary Brecka · 13,107 words · 1,959 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00I think the most important things that
0:01make us healthy is how connected to
0:03people are we? How connected are we to
0:04nature? How connected to God are we? One
0:06of the things that happens more in the
0:08cancer industry than any other industry
0:10is there is this immediate attack with
0:12fear. When I find somebody that gets
0:14stuck 90% of the time there is an
0:16emotion that's negative that's
0:18continually keeping them from healing. I
0:20read your book about the biblical diet
0:22and I think it draws from
0:24recommendations that are clearly
0:25outlined in the Bible and if you just
0:27[music] were to follow that you would be
0:29living a processed foodree lifestyle
0:31which I think really empowers the body
0:33to do the things that it does best. In
0:34Chinese medicine they believe different
0:36emotions impact different organs. So
0:38anger affects the liver, grief that
0:40affects the immune system. So there's no
0:42doubt that the spiritual and mental
0:44affect the physical in just a profound
0:46and massive way. I think one of the
0:48things that's missing dramatically from
0:49modern medicine is nobody asks [music]
0:51about how are you sleeping, what are
0:52your relationships, what are the
0:53stressors in your life going on because
0:55that just crushes our cellular biology.
0:58For someone that's listening to this
0:59podcast right now, what would be your
1:01blanket advice to somebody? I just found
1:03out that I have a tumor in my lung.
1:05What's the next step?
1:06>> There's two parts here, but number one
1:07by far, nothing else is even close to
1:09this.
1:12[music] Ultimate
1:18Human.
1:22Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate
1:24Human Podcast. I'm your host, human
1:26biologist Gary Brea, where we go down
1:28the road of everything anti-aging,
1:30biohacking, longevity, and everything in
1:32between. And today's guest is not only a
1:35repeat guest and a very, very good
1:37friend of mine. I just finished
1:38digesting his last book. He's got
1:40another book out. you're writing books
1:41faster than I can actually read your
1:43books. But he's one of the most
1:45influential voices in natural medicine
1:48and I think finally this is getting the
1:51the stage that it deserves. So, welcome
1:53to the podcast, Dr. Josh.
1:54>> Gary, thanks for having me. You know,
1:56this is one of my favorite podcasts to
1:57come on because I love talking to you.
1:59You know, I feel like it's always
1:59[laughter] iron sharpens iron. I think,
2:01you know, I I always appreciate your
2:03depth of knowledge and understanding
2:04because I think there's such value in
2:06whether it's a physician or an expert
2:08like yourself being able to understand
2:12how the body works. And I think that
2:14there's,
2:15>> you know, sometimes people are doing
2:16podcasts, they're memorizing facts and
2:18throwing that out there. The thing that
2:19I really appreciate about you when you
2:21came on my show as well is that you're
2:22able to really think in a really deep
2:24and meaningful way, looking at patterns
2:25and helping people heal because of it.
2:27>> Thank you so much. Um, you know, I I I
2:30believe you and I, we were talking in
2:32the kitchen before, you know, I'd say we
2:33align on 99% of things, which obviously
2:36makes the conversation very good. where
2:38I get to the posity of my expertise but
2:39I have a lot of curiosity and I think my
2:41audience has a lot of curiosity is the
2:45the eastern traditional medicine um and
2:48you've got a plethora of knowledge in in
2:52traditional Chinese medicine herbs and
2:57uh I think that it is finally getting
2:59the stage that it deserves. you know,
3:01uh, Donald Trump just signed an
3:03executive order on psychedelics, um,
3:05opening up pathways for,
3:08uh, psychedelic treatments, and I wasn't
3:11a fan of those for years and years and
3:13years because I I didn't know anything
3:15about them. So, that closed-mindedness
3:17that I have is the same thing that I
3:19accuse the medical community of, the
3:21alopathic community of, and I go, "Wait
3:23a minute, I don't I don't have a
3:25framework to make a really logical
3:27decision because I just don't have the
3:28data." And and then I started sitting
3:31with people that I held in very high
3:32regard that had these life-changing
3:35experiences, really life-changing
3:37experiences with things like hibain and
3:39and plant medicine. And it reframed the
3:42way that I thought about plant medicine.
3:44And I'm going through that renaissance
3:45with traditional Chinese medicine. Now,
3:48my overarching philosophy is something
3:52that has been around and not changed for
3:545,000 years probably works,
3:57>> right? You're not going to make it that
3:58long. Yeah,
3:59>> if it's a ruse.
4:00>> Yeah. Yeah, [laughter] agreed.
4:02>> Meridians haven't changed, you know. Um,
4:06>> and so I I wonder if we would start
4:08there and then I want to walk our way
4:10into some of the more modern tools
4:12available to us like blood work and
4:13biomarkers and what have you. And then I
4:15want to touch on the new book, Heal Our
4:17Cells, because I couldn't agree with you
4:18more. We are just a collection of cells
4:20and the best that medicine has to offer
4:23us now is looking at the smallest
4:26components of the body.
4:27>> Yeah. mitochondria and working our way
4:29out.
4:29>> Agreed.
4:30>> Um so let's I want to start with a
4:32little bit of um herbal medicine and and
4:35traditional Chinese medicine.
4:37>> How did you start going down that
4:39bandwagon?
4:40>> Yeah. Well, for for me it actually
4:42started with my mom being diagnosed with
4:43cancer.
4:44>> You know, I my mom I she had this uh she
4:48went into her oncologist. They did a PET
4:49scan and they said, "Hey, you've got
4:51these large tumors on your lungs and we
4:55need to go in and start doing radiation
4:56and chemo in three days."
4:58>> In three days. Now, were they going to
4:59cut them out, too?
5:00>> They were. Okay.
5:01>> Yeah. They were going to go in and do
5:02surgery first.
5:03>> And so, I immediately
5:06flew home, sat down with my mom, we we
5:09spent time praying, and she felt really
5:10led to take care of her body all
5:12naturally. And I just went into research
5:14mode. I mean, I I'd learned to read
5:15medical journals. And so I just, you
5:16know, this is, this was right before I
5:18was opening up my practice in natur
5:21good anatomical base.
5:22>> That's right. And I also been blessed to
5:24know some really great functional MDs,
5:26integrative doctors. And so I just
5:28started reading everything I could on
5:29how do I help my mom heal and that's
5:32when I came across herbal medicine and
5:34started. Now, of course, I was already a
5:36little bit familiar with ginger and
5:37turmeric and some of the most basic
5:39herbs. But then I started coming across
5:40all this research on medicinal mushrooms
5:43and how they were using those in Asia to
5:45fight cancer and studying in Europe and
5:47how they were using turkey tail and and
5:49and reading about curcumin of course as
5:51compound in turmeric. And so really I
5:53got turned on to herbal medicine when my
5:55mom's life was on the line. And so I put
5:57together a protocol for her of radically
5:59changing her diet. We did a lot of
6:01vegetables and vegetable juices, wild
6:03caught salmon. I mean that was her
6:04pretty much her diet was salmon and
6:06vegetables
6:07>> really.
6:08>> Yeah. We did a little bit of
6:08pomegranate, a little bit of blueberry,
6:10but it was really
6:11>> And what kind of vegetables? Sauteed
6:12vegetables, steamed vegetables.
6:13>> We almost did primarily steamed, raw,
6:16and juiced. It was a combination of all
6:17three.
6:18>> And with that, we also started doing uh
6:21a lot of herbs. I mean, I mean, that was
6:22the biggest part of her protocol was
6:25dietary, and then herbs and mushrooms.
6:27And we did other things. Of course, we
6:28were practicing prayer. That was a big
6:30part of it. But we went through this
6:31program, and four months later, my mom
6:33went back to our oncologist. They redid
6:35a CT scan and they called us the next
6:38day and they said, "This is highly
6:39unusual. We don't typically see this,
6:40but the tumors have shrunk in half."
6:42They said, "We want to see you again in
6:44nine months, complete remission." And
6:46now I was actually just water skiing
6:48with my mom 3 days ago.
6:49>> Yeah. My mom's in her mid70s. She's
6:51water skiing. She's running. I mean,
6:54literally incredible. I'll show you on
6:55my phone as soon as we're done here. I I
6:57was so impressed with her slalom skiing
6:58back and forth. And so, she is doing
7:00incredibly well. But I think a big part
7:03of her healing was doing the higher
7:06doses of this herbal medicine,
7:07especially turmeric and turkey tail
7:09mushroom and a number of other things
7:10she did. And this it's 20 years later
7:13now and she's cancer-free
7:14[clears throat] and still healthy. So
7:15that's really what led me down that path
7:16and I started using them with patients,
7:18you know,
7:19>> and the thing I started finding out was
7:21and I started creating these charts to
7:22where, you know, onethird of all
7:25pharmaceuticals today
7:27>> come from herbs. M you know that that's
7:29where they got those compounds and they
7:31started making them synthetically. But
7:33you know when you're taking and and the
7:34other thing that was pretty amazing when
7:35you look at the clinical literature when
7:37you have turmeric going headtohead with
7:40an NSAID
7:42>> in the short term an NSAID might create
7:44a little bit more pain relief but
7:46tumeric is still 80% I mean it's it's
7:48very close to the long-term pain rel
7:50long-term pain relief it beats it every
7:52time. [clears throat] And so there's
7:54always I've always found there's a
7:55replacement for rather than rather than
7:58an antid-depressant, rather than a
8:00thyroid medication, rather than uh a
8:03painkiller, there is an herb that's all
8:06natural that you can take instead and
8:08typically in some cases get a more
8:10effective outcome, definitely more
8:12effective long-term at what you're
8:14dealing with.
8:14>> Wow. So, this was what really started
8:17you down that pathway and and for
8:20someone that's listening to this podcast
8:22right now because uh cancer is just on a
8:25parabolic tear right now even turbo
8:27cancers and we can go down the rabbit
8:30hole of why I think that is but
8:32>> um what's the first thing someone should
8:34do when they get that diagnosis
8:37>> like what is the first shift regardless
8:40of what direction they go conventional
8:42um alipathic traditional
8:45or or or something more non
8:48non-traditional. Um what would be your
8:51just blanket advice to somebody? I've
8:53got I just found out that I have a tumor
8:55in my lung or polip in my colon. Yeah.
8:58>> Um what's the next step?
9:00>> Yeah.
9:01>> Well, there's there's two parts here,
9:03but number one by far, nothing else is
9:04even close to this.
9:06>> You get down on your knees and you pray.
9:08>> That's the first thing. Your chance of
9:10beating cancer is always going to be
9:11higher with divine intervention. And I
9:13believe that's why my mom is still alive
9:15today and thriving. And I've noticed
9:17this with patients, by the way. The ones
9:18that are the most prayerful and also the
9:20most positive believing my body can
9:22heal.
9:23>> They get the best outcomes. You know,
9:25one of the things that happens more in
9:26the cancer industry than any other
9:27industry is there is this there's
9:30there's immediate attack with fear. You
9:33know, I'm I'm I'm counseling somebody
9:34right now walking through, by the way,
9:36probably the number one condition we see
9:38right now in our practice and we're not
9:40treating it, but we are supporting
9:41people as they go through it is is
9:42cancer. So, I have somebody right now
9:45and he's a very close friend of mine and
9:46he has colon uh rectal he has colon
9:48cancer
9:49>> and um he went in saw his oncologist and
9:52they said and they say this about almost
9:54all of them. This is highly aggressive.
9:55We need to start tomorrow, you know, and
9:57and hey, and they don't even consider
9:59doing some of these other things. So, so
10:01the first thing again is prayer and we
10:03ask God for wisdom, for divine
10:04intervention on what to do and ask for
10:06divine healing.
10:07>> The second thing after that is I really
10:09think you want to
10:12consult with somebody who really knows
10:13how to do this from an integrative
10:15manner, right? Maybe somebody is still
10:17going to do radiation, maybe somebody's
10:18still going to do chemo.
10:20And and I don't really try and steer
10:22people in that direction whether they do
10:24that or not. What I do know is
10:25somebody's chance of survival is much
10:28greater
10:29>> if they have a perfect diet, if they're
10:31taking all the right supplements, if
10:32they're doing breath work, if they're
10:34doing all of these things naturally,
10:37whether they do whether they do
10:38conventional or not, their chance of
10:40survival is still so much greater. So I
10:43would say, and here's another thing
10:44along with that. So put together your
10:46right protocol. One of the things that
10:48we do, and I know other naturologists
10:50that do this, and they we do a test
10:52called a Greek test. It's an RGCC test
10:55and we actually test to see for this
10:57type of cancer what type of therapies
11:00are going to be the most beneficial for
11:02them. You can even tell what type of
11:03chemotherapy be the most beneficial or
11:05would it even
11:05>> Is that the one blood test that's in in
11:07Greece?
11:08>> It it is okay.
11:09>> That's where it was founded. Well, well,
11:11they do it in Europe, but it's not. They
11:13call it the Greek test because it's
11:15because it's RGCC. Anyways, but
11:18>> I believe it started in Europe.
11:20Now, it will show you based on your
11:23blood work you do what therapies, both
11:27conventional and natural, are most
11:29effective against that type of cancer.
11:31And so, doing that and then other types
11:32of blood work. What if somebody is
11:34massively deficient in zinc or vitamin D
11:37or even iron, I mean, you know, or
11:39omega-3s. And so, being able to get the
11:42right testing done, I think to know,
11:44hey, what are the tools that are going
11:45to make the biggest difference? For
11:46instance, this person we just did this
11:48blood work on, we found that the number
11:51one therapy for them that's
11:53non-conventional is hyperothermia.
11:56>> So, heating their body up.
11:58>> And by the way, if you go to places like
11:59Switzerland or Germany today, it is one
12:01of the top integrative treatments, if
12:03not number one, for for for cancer is
12:06doing hypothermia. So, heating the body
12:08up to around 106 to 107 degrees.
12:10>> And they're doing this for cancer. I
12:11know they've done this for lime.
12:12>> Oh, of course. I know several clients of
12:15mine, not and then it didn't mean to cut
12:16you off that have done this for Lyme
12:17disease very successfully.
12:19>> Yeah. And and it's it is um it it's also
12:22known as this. So if somebody does
12:23conventional, it's known as a
12:24radioensitizer. So your radiation
12:26treatment is actually more effective
12:28>> if you get it done with hyperothermia.
12:30>> Wow.
12:31>> But yeah, hypothermia when you heat the
12:32body up that much, I mean you know some
12:33of the science too. It's your body
12:35creates interferon. It creates all of
12:36these different compounds that then kill
12:39cancer cells. And also cancer cells just
12:41like they can't thrive in an oxygenated
12:43environment, they have a very hard time
12:45thriving under heat like that.
12:47>> And so heating the tissue. So you can do
12:49local hyperothermia. There are units
12:50like this that certain clinics have
12:52throughout the United States. You can
12:54also do whole body hyperothermia like
12:56they do in Europe. But that's another
12:58thing. So all that being said, I think
12:59if somebody has cancer, their process
13:01should be three-step.
13:02>> Number one, pray. Number two, make sure
13:06you get the right testing. Get some
13:07second opinions. Listen to other people.
13:09Right. Mh.
13:09>> And then number three, get a protocol
13:12and follow it to a tea. Right? So like
13:14my friend who has colon cancer, he may
13:17choose to do I think what he's what he's
13:19choosing to do and working with his
13:20oncologist on is only doing radiation
13:22and not chemo and then getting
13:24hyperothermia with it, getting high dose
13:26vitamin C with it, getting something
13:28[clears throat] called mistletoe
13:29injections and then really following
13:31more of what we'd call it's not quite
13:33ketogenic, but basically the diet I have
13:35him doing is like cabbage, bok choy,
13:38salmon, uh apples, blueberry. It's a
13:41very very simple diet. M
13:43>> um but that's that's the sort of
13:45>> and that's what he sticks to
13:46>> and that's what he's sticking to
13:46>> and so it's protein and fat forward ma
13:49mainly fat forward
13:50>> mainly well I would it is it's protein
13:53fat and for him in particular with colon
13:55cancer it's also high fiber but to your
13:57point it's lower low it's definitely
13:58lower in carbohydrates
13:59>> okay because we know that you know
14:02cancer needs or or prefers certain
14:04environments high glycemic environment
14:06acidic environments hypoxic environments
14:09um these are ways that it it hid hides
14:12and and continues its respiratory cycle.
14:15I think what goes lost on a lot of
14:16people is like that uh cancer regardless
14:20of its form or its origin. All all of it
14:23was at one time a healthy cell.
14:24>> That's right. It was it shifted its
14:26metabolism. That's right.
14:27>> For some reason.
14:28>> Well, this is why, by the way, I love
14:30your quote that you did on my podcast
14:31when I interviewed you and and let me
14:33say I I I may get it and mess it up, but
14:35it's disease I'll have you say, but it's
14:38essentially
14:38>> the presence of oxygen. the presence of
14:40you know disease cannot live in in the
14:41presence of oxygen.
14:42>> Yeah. The presence of oxygen is the
14:44absence of disease.
14:45>> That's it. Yeah.
14:45>> And that is such a phenomenal quote and
14:47I think that's the key with can there's
14:49two things with cancer. It's all about
14:50oxygen and fermentation. Oxygen and
14:52sugar. If you can starve it of sugar
14:55>> and increase the oxygen greatly in the
14:57area.
14:57>> I think that is the greatest therapy for
15:00supporting uh and anti-cancer therapy.
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15:55>> Yeah, I would I would absolutely agree
15:57with that. So, let's get back to that,
15:59you know, Chinese herbal medicine. So,
16:01when a patient comes in to see you, and
16:03I want to get into biomarkers in a
16:04minute, how are you determining which
16:08herbal therapy they're going to receive,
16:11where do you start? Is it uh is it
16:13highly patient specific? Is there
16:15something that you think that every
16:17listener should be taking right now from
16:19an herbal perspective? Um, or is it
16:22parasite, this, mold, this?
16:25>> Um, it's number two. It's it's highly
16:28personalized. I mean, I'm a big
16:29believer, as you are. we talked in
16:31personalized medicine
16:32>> and now now listen I think across the
16:35board there are some herbs that 90% of
16:38people
16:39>> are going to benefit from again turmeric
16:41is going to be incredibly high on that
16:42list ginger is going to be high on that
16:44list um yeah there there's there's
16:48ashwagandha is probably going to be very
16:49high on that list so so those are some
16:50herbs generally almost everyone can
16:52benefit from but I am very protocol
16:54focused on hey let's put together the
16:56exact game plan that's going to be the
16:58best for you to heal And I think there's
17:00a few things to consider when I and in
17:02terms of part of your question was uh
17:04how do I determine what herb is best for
17:06that person? I look at number one their
17:09history.
17:10>> So hey you've got a lot of joint pain.
17:12Okay that's tell me there's a lot of
17:13inflammation. Oh you have psoriasis. Oh
17:14you have
17:16>> you know rosacea or you're dealing with
17:17infertility. Okay well now I kind of see
17:20some of your health history.
17:21>> Um I look at tongue diagnosis in Chinese
17:23medicine. So I'll read someone's tongue.
17:25If there are ridges on the side that are
17:27like bite marks
17:28>> Mhm. That means their digestive system
17:30is weak. If there is a coating on their
17:32tongue, of course, that's a that's
17:34overgrowth of some typically yeast, but
17:36it could be H. pylori, some sort of
17:39microbe. If it's pale, that's a blood
17:41deficiency. I need to do blood building
17:43herbs. If it's too red,
17:46highly inflamed. Um, and and and there's
17:48a few others. If actually, this is the
17:50mo the one that is the most problematic.
17:53If somebody has a tongue or lips that
17:55are turning blue or purple,
17:57>> that's oxygen deprivation. That's very,
18:00very severe.
18:01>> And so, all that being said, I'll look
18:03at their tongue and I can tell so much
18:04about their entire body and patterns.
18:07And so, that'll tell me, hey, if we got
18:08those ridges on the side of the tongue,
18:10we need to do a stragalus. If we've got
18:11that that um issue regarding heat, we
18:14need to cool the body off. And maybe
18:16there's an herb like skull cap or
18:17something like that. So, so that's and
18:19the other one is blood work. You know,
18:21if I have somebody come in and their
18:23Dutch test, their cortisol is just
18:25completely backwards, maybe I'll have
18:27them do a
18:27>> I see that a lot actually inversion of
18:30cortisol happened to my wife in
18:31menopause.
18:33>> So many people
18:33>> see that waking spike and decline and it
18:37was perfectly inverted. It looked like a
18:39V and it should have looked like a
18:40mountain.
18:41>> Exactly. Huge. So many people with that.
18:43One of the biggest warning signs of that
18:45is if you wake up around 3:00 a.m. And
18:47you'd be surprised if you start asking
18:49people if they're not sleeping well,
18:50say, "What time do you wake up at
18:51night?" They're almost always 3:00 a.m.
18:53And that's the inverse cortisol uh
18:55rhythm you're talking about. Exactly. So
18:58with those people, it's, you know,
18:59ashwagandha in the morning, maybe rishi
19:01or holy basil in the afternoon.
19:02>> So calming in the morning, even
19:04ashwagandha.
19:05>> The thing about ashwagandha, this is
19:06interesting. So this is where Chinese
19:07medicine's really interesting is that
19:09they have we a lot of times when we
19:11think of an adaptogenic herb we kind of
19:13a lot of times think of them or when I
19:15did early on I thought they were all
19:16part of the same category and affected
19:18the body the same way. Ashwagandha
19:21is known as aqi yang booster.
19:24>> That means it's both anabolic and it's
19:26boosting of chi and and and chi could
19:29also be cellular energy ATP and also
19:32supporting cortisol. The crazy thing
19:34about ashwagandha is if your cortisol
19:36gets too low, ashwagandha will bring it
19:39up. If it gets too high, it brings it
19:41down.
19:41>> Wow.
19:42>> So, ashwagandha works with the body in
19:44probably a more incredible way than most
19:46other herbs do. It really works in sync
19:48in tune with your body, bringing that
19:49circadian rhythm back. So, that one is
19:51typically more effective earlier in the
19:53day. Some people, it can mess with their
19:54sleep if they take it later on. Not
19:56everybody. So hypothyroidism is the is
19:59the best example of what we call a
20:01sheiang deficiency. The body because
20:03their yang is heat. So the body's too
20:05cold
20:06>> and then the mitochondria are too
20:08depleted.
20:09>> So it's addressing both of those issues
20:11simultaneously. Wow.
20:13>> Versus holy basil is a little bit more
20:16calming
20:17>> and so taking it more in the evening is
20:18also going to typically be a little bit
20:21better for maybe where that cortisol
20:23cycle is. I mean I take a I take a sleep
20:25formula with ashwagandha, atheanine,
20:27tryptophan
20:29and I other than if I have to urinate at
20:33night I do not wake up and I notice that
20:35my sleep efficiency is like 97 99% and
20:41my high stress sleep is zero.
20:44>> Yeah.
20:44>> So I don't I'm I'm not stressed when
20:47when I'm sleeping and that's worked very
20:50well for me. I don't do well with
20:52melatonin. In fact, most of my clients
20:53don't do well with melatonin. And I find
20:56that it either creates like really vivid
20:58dreams, um like very very vivid, intense
21:02dreams. It even can create a dependency.
21:04They have trouble sleeping when they're
21:05not on it. Um so I haven't become a big
21:09fan of of melatonin, but ashwagandha
21:12tryptophan eltheanine, I've seen
21:14miracles with that on a regular basis
21:16because it seems like it's
21:17non-tranquitic. Like it's not it's not
21:20drugging you to sleep.
21:21>> That's right. calming you to sleep.
21:23>> And that's what that's what a lot of
21:24people notice. So when you're doing if
21:26you're trying to increase your your
21:28sleep long term and improve it,
21:30ashwagandha and rishi mushroom are
21:32probably the two best for that long-term
21:34balance. To your point, if you take
21:35Valyan root,
21:37>> you know, you're going to wake up in the
21:38morning groggy,
21:39>> right?
21:39>> And nobody and and and nobody likes
21:41that. So So I agree. I think apenine
21:43which is found in chamomile tea,
21:45magnolia bark, um to your point,
21:48tryptophan, theanine. These are really
21:50amazing. The these are these are great
21:52herbs or herbal compounds that calm the
21:55body, but also they're not going to give
21:57you that that drowsy feeling the next
21:58day.
21:59>> So, let's let's talk about blood work. I
22:01mean, more classic blood work because
22:03everybody wants to know I would say in
22:0510 years in this space, the most common
22:07question I get is where do I start?
22:10>> Yeah.
22:10>> Right. I mean, how do I how do I get
22:12through the paralysis of analysis and
22:13where do I start? What biomarkers should
22:15I pull? Um, why should I pull them? And
22:18I am a huge believer in data uh no
22:21matter what direction you're going to go
22:22with your treatment, whether it's going
22:23to be eastern, western, combination of
22:25both, what have you, data is just uh,
22:28you know, helps you drown out the noise.
22:30>> Yeah.
22:31>> Um, so what what are the must-have
22:33pieces of data that you get on on a
22:35blood panel?
22:36>> Yeah. So when I'm when I'm looking at
22:37blood work, the first thing I'm trying
22:39to do is go as far upstream as possible.
22:41You and I talked about this on my show,
22:43right? What's the first domino? We want
22:44to find the do those dominoes first.
22:47>> So I tend to look at cortisol and
22:50insulin very high up and insulin
22:51probably the biggest. So fasting,
22:53glucose, and insulin levels, and A1C, I
22:55think those are critically important
22:56markers is knowing what your blood sugar
22:58is.
22:59>> Along with that,
23:01>> uh I want to know what your
23:03micronutrients are. You know, I I
23:05actually think that this is the most
23:06underested thing on the board by far is
23:09micronutrients. If somebody goes and
23:11gets a blood panel,
23:13>> mo most often they get zero nutrients
23:15checked.
23:16>> Yeah.
23:16>> And if they do,
23:17>> B12, sodium
23:20couple,
23:21>> it's iron, B12, and sodium. I mean,
23:23that's maybe what they're getting
23:24tested.
23:25>> What about magnesium?
23:28>> What about zinc? Yeah, to your point.
23:30So, so
23:31>> silica folate, you know, so, so these
23:34nutrients are so important. So, that's
23:35the other thing I always run is we run a
23:37really I I like to run a really
23:38expansive micronutrient panel cuz you
23:41know this if somebody's vitamin D is in
23:44the tank,
23:44>> but even more but and again some people
23:47check for that but if your zinc or
23:49magnesium is in the tank or folate or
23:52your your body has a very hard time
23:54healing. I'll share with you a story as
23:55an example for this. So, um, when I had
23:58my spinal infection and didn't walk for
23:59a full year and I was so sick, for the
24:01next two years after, I was rehabbing,
24:03doing everything I could, but I battled
24:05low energy. I mean, Gary, I was
24:06exhausted constantly.
24:08>> And part of me thought, well, it's just
24:09overcoming this infection, but then two
24:11years later, I'm like, I'm still
24:12exhausted.
24:13>> Finally, and I had had blood work done
24:14just because every time I was going in
24:16to get stem cells, they would do a basic
24:17panel.
24:17>> You weren't anemic or anything like
24:19jumping off. Right.
24:20>> That's right. So, finally, I said,
24:21"Okay, I want to do a really advanced
24:22panel on myself." And I did. And only
24:25two things showed up. Ribopav and
24:27vitamin B2 was almost zero. I mean, it
24:30was like non-existent.
24:32>> And then my mitochondrial health, it
24:33said, was just absolutely depleted. Part
24:35of that might have been I had to get on
24:36an IV antibiotic when when I had my
24:38infection.
24:39>> And that's actually the IV. It's not as
24:41hard on your gut, but it's harder on
24:43your mitochondria.
24:44>> Yeah. And so then I just I started
24:46supplementing with highdose vitamin B2
24:48and taking more mitochondrial support
24:50like CoQ10, PQQ, NAD+
24:53and my energy Gary went from a 6 out of
24:5610 to a 10 out of 10 and it's been that
24:58ever since
24:58>> really.
24:59>> And you know what I the single biggest
25:00one was vitamin B2 when I took that and
25:03it's so random. It's like vitamin B2 but
25:06that's the early phase. You know this
25:08better than anyone I could interview or
25:09talk to. That's that first phase of the
25:11methylation cycle.
25:12>> No question.
25:12>> And and I'm a I have the the the C677
25:16variant
25:17>> and of MTHFR
25:18>> of MTHFR and that was showing up in my
25:20blood work as well. So getting that
25:22advanced panel looking at micronutrients
25:24being able to tell
25:25>> that I was that was the first time I'd
25:26actually tested for my genetic variant
25:29>> and methylation showing up
25:31>> and so that completely changed the way I
25:33supplemented. So that was big. And then
25:35the other few other markers and I'm
25:37seeing these pop up all the time. Apo B
25:40>> for heart health and LPA
25:42>> huge. If you're running a hormone panel
25:45like I do, you really also want to look
25:46for not only the thy the standard
25:48thyroid markers, but T3 and then of
25:50course TPO. You you want to look for for
25:52for the antibodies. You want to look for
25:55for that as well. So, and then here's
25:57just a few others that I like. Um
25:59there's one called F2 isoprons. This is
26:02looking at bodywide oxidative stress.
26:06>> Wow. And there are so many people today
26:08who have major oxidative stress. And
26:10this is why I know a lot of your
26:11therapies you're doing with hydrogen.
26:13>> What's it called again?
26:13>> It's called F2-iso
26:16pro uh iso P R A N E S. Another good one
26:23to pair that with is
26:24>> I want to make sure we put that in the
26:25show notes, too.
26:26>> Yeah. Another great one, too, is doing
26:28one to pair with that on on glutathione,
26:30right? You the GGGT marker, looking at
26:32that. But I think overall if you're
26:34doing micronutrients now I I do think
26:35there's value in doing some of the
26:36standard CBC CMP like looking at those
26:40markers as well.
26:41>> But but I think if you were able to look
26:42at those things
26:44>> and if I had to add one now of course
26:45this isn't a blood test
26:47>> but the other thing I probably value the
26:48most.
26:49>> Let me let me give a few more. Sorry
26:50it's so hard for me to stop one
26:51[laughter] but but but I would say
26:53>> you're like I am dude you start going
26:54down the rabbit hole and you're like I
26:56did just think of another one that we
26:57always pull. I I do think it depends
26:59upon the person, but I think that blood
27:00panel number one. And then number two,
27:02hey, what are your symptoms? For a lot
27:04of people, a GI map is incredibly
27:07beneficial. I think for some people, I
27:09mean, I I I love a genetics variant
27:11test, not only looking at MTHFR. Oh,
27:13yeah.
27:14>> But COOMT and AMO and VD like like I
27:16found out that I don't convert vitamin D
27:19well.
27:20>> So, and I don't convert omega-3s well.
27:22And so, it very much changed the way I
27:24supplemented. And when I was able to get
27:26the blood work genetically and an
27:28advanced panel,
27:30>> I'm telling you again, and it's like,
27:31Gary, I already know what to do
27:32generally speaking, I ate so healthy, I
27:34exercised constantly, but being able to
27:36dial in my foods and supplements
27:39>> uh based on getting the right testing
27:41done was completely transformative. It's
27:43been transformative for my patients,
27:44too.
27:45>> What micronutrient assay do you do? Do
27:46you do the um because I've done the CNA,
27:49the cell either micronutrient assay.
27:50There's one by um
27:52>> Spectracell. Spectracell is is a good
27:55one
27:55>> and then Vibrant has one. Uh we we run
27:58in my clinic, we run it through Quest
28:00and it's just it's one that I've just
28:01put together based on the markers I like
28:03most. Okay.
28:04>> So the markers that I really like for a
28:06lot of the nutrients, they're called
28:07RBC. So it's red blood cell like RBC
28:10magnesium, RBC selenium. So it's it's
28:13actually testing and this is so
28:15important. It's testing what's in your
28:17cell, not what's in your blood.
28:19>> I this is I talk about this all the
28:21time. I mean, so much B12 deficiency
28:25shows high B12 in the blood.
28:27>> Yes.
28:28>> And it's a really hard concept to wrap
28:30your arms around, but we're pulling, you
28:32know, nutrient concentrations from the
28:34serum of the blood, not from inside the
28:36cell. And when the cell is not
28:37metabolizing it using that fuel, it
28:40builds up in the blood. We go, "Oh gosh,
28:41I better cut my B12." You know, no, you
28:43need to just change the form of B12 that
28:46you're using. I have put patients on No,
28:48I don't have patients. I have clients on
28:50B12 supplementation and their B12 has
28:52gone down
28:52>> because they start to metabolize.
28:54>> That's right. To your point, it's it's
28:56so important. It is so And you know, I I
28:58see this too, like there's a there's so
28:59many companies getting into the marker
29:01game and they're like, I've got 50
29:03markers. No, I've got 100. No, I've got
29:05one trillion. Like, and you're like,
29:08okay. But here's the thing I encourage
29:10>> it. Don't go for volume. Go for the
29:12markers that matter. Like I would much
29:14rather have somebody have fewer markers
29:16and test red blood cell like looking at
29:18cellular magnesium and cellular zinc and
29:21MMA which is the the cellular B12.
29:24Knowing those markers versus the
29:26standard I don't know
29:27>> LDL cholesterol that's so outdated when
29:30APOB and LPA are so much more important.
29:33I'd much rather do the right markers
29:35than just get a 100 plus markers.
29:37>> And what do you do because I I have the
29:39I have the lipo little A variant um and
29:42AO B. not in insane tie uh genetic I
29:46manage all of the other lifestyle risk
29:48factors to try to mitigate the impact
29:50that that has um PKSK9 inhibitors don't
29:54touch it um diet somewhat so what do you
29:58do for lipo and
30:01>> maybe uh what what I like doing there is
30:04and listen here's the thing you're
30:05probably doing most of the stuff already
30:07>> but I think from a dietary standpoint I
30:09would really try and increase omega-3
30:12intake
30:13really increase nitric oxide. Really
30:14reduce oxidative stress as much as
30:16possible. I think that's key. So, the
30:18diet should look like lots of wild
30:20caught salmon and fish,
30:22>> lots of blueberries, lots of pomegranate
30:24apples are actually pretty beneficial
30:26here. Um, I would do garlic.
30:29>> Uh, I would do lots of steamed
30:32vegetables
30:33>> and I would do You actually don't want
30:34to go overboard on fat. Like, you want
30:36to be careful. See, this is where it's
30:38so interesting and you've seen this too.
30:40There's this sort of conversation of
30:42people right now happening happening and
30:43a lot of them are in Maha and then a lot
30:45of them are on more of the conventional
30:46medicine where they're saying
30:49>> don't eat seed oils but eat all the
30:50butter and tallow you want. Okay. And
30:53then there's another group here saying
30:54well butter and tallow will kill you and
30:55then but seed oils actually aren't that
30:56bad. In fact, they're better than that.
30:58Mhm.
30:59>> I I I don't actually I think sometimes
31:01they can both be right because if
31:02somebody has a really backed up liver
31:04doing he heavy animal fats
31:07>> in Chinese medicine it really can create
31:10some sluggishness of the liver if
31:12because the the liver and the
31:13gallbladder are have to what deals with
31:15fat.
31:16>> So all that being said
31:17>> I think for those people you actually
31:19don't want to do high fat. You want to
31:20do low moderate fat but just do the
31:22right fats. And it's extravirgin olive
31:25oil. Really should be almost the only
31:27oil you're doing.
31:28>> I do so much extra virgin olive oil. And
31:30I I start every morning with a shot of
31:33really good expeller pressed cold
31:35pressed extra virgin olive oil. Um and a
31:38squeeze of lemon.
31:39>> Love it.
31:39>> That's the first thing I do in the
31:41morning before coffee, before water,
31:42before even before I do my morning
31:44stack. And then about 25 30 minutes
31:46later, I start you know coffee in my
31:49morning stack. People ask me health
31:51questions every single day about their
31:53labs, their sleep, their supplements,
31:54their genetics. I want to help every
31:56single one of them. And that's why I
31:58built Just Ask Gary. It's an AI trained
32:01on everything I know, including my
32:02protocols, my research, and my
32:04methodology. You ask the question, you
32:06get my answer any time of the day. Go to
32:08the ultimatehum.com
32:10and check it out. Now, let's get back to
32:12the Ultimate Human podcast.
32:15>> Yeah. And then supplements. And you
32:16actually referenced this on my podcast,
32:17but bergamont is probably the most
32:19effective that I found for for for LPA,
32:223,000 milligrams of an omega-3 fat. And
32:24and you want to, you know, a lot of
32:26these omega-3 supplements are oxidized.
32:29>> You want to do a triglyceride form or do
32:31a really high quality algae oil with
32:34phospholipids included. There's a
32:36there's like one or two brands that do
32:37that and that's about it.
32:39>> Phosphetylcoline or phosphoippids? uh
32:42phospholipids but phosphotylcoline will
32:44be part of the phosphoippids for sure.
32:46Absolutely. So so I do think that the
32:49omegas that I think and then I think
32:51doing some of the herbals that are going
32:52to reduce oxidative stress you know
32:54keeping cortisol low
32:56>> that's probably the other really big
32:58thing I think that's going to help LPA.
32:59>> Yeah and that has to do more with
33:02lifestyle choices like habitual patterns
33:05of that that actually make you allow you
33:07to feel safe in your own body.
33:09>> That's right. So some what are some of
33:10those practices that people can do
33:12especially women I think women struggle
33:13with this more than men. I think very
33:15often women don't feel safe in their own
33:17bodies.
33:17>> I I think for women Yeah. So so so and
33:20here's the feeling you want to have. Um
33:22and I tell women this that are
33:24struggling with pregnant I think a lot
33:25of times when women are dealing with
33:26infertility sometimes to your point
33:28they're not feeling safe and secure. Um,
33:31and you want to feel women like this is
33:34I'm thinking about my wife. What she
33:35would want to she would want to be
33:37curled up next to a fire with a blanket
33:39with her favorite beverage. It's snowing
33:40outside and her family's there and she
33:42has nothing going on and she's just at
33:44peace. That's
33:45>> That is my wife's utopia. You just If
33:48Sage is listening to this podcast, she's
33:50like, I'm going to picking and I'm not
33:51coming home. Every time we go to
33:53Colorado to our mountain home out there,
33:55there's like a 40% chance she doesn't
33:57come back with me. So,
33:58>> by the way, hey, we should do a ski
33:59trip. We just bought a place in Park
34:01City.
34:01>> Oh, did you really?
34:02>> Yeah. And so, um, and and by the way,
34:04I've I've seen your the pictures of your
34:06place in color. The land is absolutely
34:07gorgeous.
34:08>> I So, all that being said, you want to
34:09get that feeling. So, I think there's a
34:11few things here.
34:12>> Now, this may not be where everybody
34:13thought I was headed.
34:15>> There's a quote by Awtoer,
34:17>> probably my favorite author of all time.
34:19And he says this, "What you think about
34:22when you think about God is the most
34:23important thing about you."
34:26And it's a crazy quote because if you
34:29think about this, what you think about
34:31>> when you think about God is the most
34:33important thing about you. How's that
34:34the most important thing about me? Isn't
34:35it my personality? Isn't it something
34:36else?
34:37>> But if you know that you're a child of
34:39God and you have this relationship with
34:40God, and if you believe he is for you,
34:42not against you, [clears throat]
34:43>> that he is your protector, that
34:45everything he's doing every day is
34:47working out for your good. and you're
34:50walking and living with that mindset of
34:52and also knowing God did not create you
34:54to be a productivity engine. You know, a
34:56lot of people get their sense of self-v
34:58valueue and worth from, oh, I, you know,
35:01uh, I finished the checklist today. I'm
35:03volunteering here. They're they're
35:04trying to be everything to all other
35:06people. Like when I think about my own
35:08daughters, I and you know this because
35:10you've got four kids. I get the most joy
35:13when my kids are laughing and having fun
35:16and carefree. And listen, we want our
35:18kids to use their God-given gifts and be
35:20productive people, but we also want them
35:22living in a state of joy and happiness.
35:23And God, your father in heaven, he feels
35:25the same way about you. He wants to see
35:27you happy and laughing and loving your
35:29life. So, I think when we can get this
35:31perspective of God wants me to be happy.
35:34He wants me to be whole. He wants me to
35:35work hard, but he wants me just as much
35:37to play hard, have downtime, relax,
35:39deeply connect with other people. So I
35:42think that if you can really focus on
35:44spending time in prayer and connection
35:46with God and understanding who he is and
35:48how much he loves you, if you can spend
35:50time connecting with other virtuous
35:52people that love you, that care for you,
35:53that are cheering you on, that are your
35:55encouragers. I think connecting deeply
35:57with God, connecting deeply with others,
36:00and this is interesting in Genesis,
36:03there's this sort of thing where uh I
36:05think the most important things that
36:06make us healthy is how how connected to
36:09God are we? How connected to people are
36:10we? How connected are we to nature?
36:14>> Walking outside, just walking, going on
36:16regular walks in nature and pausing
36:18every little bit and just taking a
36:19breath and saying, "Wow, God, you are
36:21good. Nature, it's it's amazing what
36:22you've created here." So, I think it's
36:24some of it's I think it's more than
36:26anything, a mindset, being able to adapt
36:29and have that mindset overtake you, I
36:31think I think would help the most. What
36:33you think about God
36:35>> is the most important thing about you
36:37essentially
36:37>> is the most important thing about So
36:39what you think about when you think
36:40about God
36:42>> is the most important thing about you.
36:43Yeah,
36:44>> that is really profound. Took me a
36:45minute to stitch that together because
36:48you I do uh sit in in in prayer every
36:51morning for a few minutes and my my
36:55prayer and in full confession here used
36:57to be like a wish list.
36:59>> Sure. [laughter] Oh, every
37:01all the things I need was like Santa
37:03Claus, you know, this is what I hope you
37:05bring me uh for Christmas. Um, and now
37:08it's purely about just giving thanks.
37:11Um, and I know that sounds so altruistic
37:15and proofy and I was never that guy
37:17because I'm have a deeply scientific
37:19background. Um, but I think and I and I
37:24pray for wisdom, not knowledge. Um, I
37:27don't pray to be smarter. I just pray
37:28for for wisdom. And
37:32you know, I've never really framed it as
37:34what how I think about God, but now that
37:37I'm processing it, it it really does
37:39have a big reflection on what you can
37:42think about this about yourself.
37:43>> If you think that God is judging you all
37:46the time, if you think that God is angry
37:48with you, if you think that life is a
37:50test and God is, you know, or or you
37:52don't think he exists at all, you know,
37:53then that takes really meaning out of
37:55your life and purpose. if if if if he if
37:57he he doesn't exist. So, yeah. I mean,
37:59if you think that God is this loving
38:00father and loves you and is fighting for
38:02you and you're partnering with him to
38:03change the world, it it it changes you.
38:07>> Yeah. Yeah.
38:08>> So, um I also believe that faith is
38:11medicine. Um and I wasn't really
38:13intending to go down this rabbit hole on
38:15this on this podcast. I know that you
38:16believe that, too. Um, and I I read your
38:19book about the biblical diet and I think
38:22it's absolutely spot-on and it draws
38:25from recommendations that are clearly
38:28outlined in in the Bible. And if you
38:30just were to follow that, you would be
38:32living a processed food and highly
38:34processed diet-free um, you know,
38:37lifestyle, which I think really empowers
38:40the body to to do the things that it
38:42does best, eliminate waste and what have
38:44you. but someone that is coming into um
38:48your practice when you when you zoom out
38:50and you're looking at this whole person.
38:52So we we went through the biomarkers.
38:54Yeah.
38:55>> Um what else are you looking at in their
38:57ecosystem? Because I I think one of the
38:59things that's missing dramatically from
39:01modern medicine is nobody asks about how
39:04are you sleeping? You know, what are
39:05your relationships like? What is your
39:06home life like? What is your career
39:08like? What are the stressors in your
39:09life going on? I mean, are you under
39:11like insurmountable financial pressure
39:13right now or because that just crushes
39:17our cellular biology?
39:18>> Yeah, you're 100% right. I mean, I I
39:20I'll never forget this. This is one of
39:22the first patients I ever had and they
39:24had IBS
39:25>> and they came into my clinic and this
39:26was like 18 years. This is a long time
39:28ago, 18 years ago. But they came in and
39:31>> I got them on a gluten-free diet,
39:33casein-free diet, started doing more,
39:35you know,
39:36>> proud of yourself.
39:37>> Yeah. Yeah. And [laughter] I was like,
39:38and they were doing they were doing
39:39great. and and like I mean amazingly
39:42well and then a few weeks later they
39:45come in and they were a wreck l and I
39:47was like John I said hey what what
39:50happened like cuz I thought it was going
39:51to be I went and ate a piece of pizza I
39:53went to this concert like something
39:54happened
39:55>> and he goes nothing my diet hasn't
39:57changed at all and I'm like what has
39:59changed he's like you know I'm I'm going
40:01through a divorce
40:03>> I was like whoa and his symptoms were
40:05worse from stress than they were if he
40:07went and ate a piece of
40:09Yeah.
40:09>> So, so, so there's no doubt that the
40:12spiritual and mental affect the physical
40:13in just a profound and massive way. You
40:16know, in Chinese medicine, they believe
40:17and I I believe this is absolutely
40:18accurate, different emotions impact
40:21different organs. So, anger is the
40:23affects the liver. Grief, not letting go
40:25of the past, uh, or losing a loved one,
40:27that affects the immune system. And so,
40:29different emotions affect different
40:31organ systems. But and and here when I
40:33find somebody that gets stuck, let's say
40:35we did the dietary changes, we get them
40:37on the right supplements and they get
40:3950% better, but not 100.
40:42>> 90% of the time it's due to
40:45>> they've had childhood trauma or
40:47something happening and just the
40:48negative emotions. It's worry, it's
40:50anxious, it's fear, there is an emotion
40:53that's negative that's continually
40:55keeping them from healing.
40:56>> And so I think it's a huge part of it.
40:58You know, one thing that I'll do for
40:59patients is when I pray for people, but
41:02I think in addition to that is is I
41:04really think being able to go and
41:06address that childhood trauma or why do
41:09you still why are you constantly living
41:11in a state of worry?
41:12>> And going back to what we talked about a
41:14few minutes ago of, hey, who is God?
41:18What's that relationship here? Going and
41:20spending time. And sometimes you can do
41:21that by yourself. You can do it with
41:22another person. Sometimes it's a
41:24counselor.
41:24>> Yeah.
41:25>> Right. Or a psychologist. But spending
41:26time and dealing with past childhood
41:28trauma and working through it where you
41:30see it typically one of the most
41:32powerful tools is you see it from a
41:33different lens.
41:35>> Hey, what good could come out of this or
41:38um or just recognizing, hey, you're live
41:40like I'll share this for myself. When I
41:42was a kid, I had a teacher who asked me
41:45to stay after class and uh and I said,
41:48"Okay, stay after class." She said,
41:49Josh, what do you want to do when you
41:50get older? I said, I want to be a
41:51doctor. And the reason I did is that was
41:53the first time my mom had cancer. I saw
41:55what she went through and I went,
41:56"That's what I wanted to be."
41:57>> She said, she laughed at me aloud and
41:59she said, "Listen, you'll never be a
42:01doctor." She said, "My own daughter has
42:03a 3.8 GPA and she barely got into med
42:06school." And I said, "Okay." And then I
42:09walked out of there. And then a little
42:10later, I got diagnosed with ADHD.
42:12>> And so I so I had this thought in my
42:14head constantly, Gary, growing up that I
42:16was not smart.
42:17>> And so I honestly stopped trying in
42:19school. astounding how just one moment
42:22like that because because of the
42:24authoritative place that teacher was in
42:27your life. I mean your friend telling
42:28you you're never going to be a doctor
42:29would have rolled right off your back
42:30but your teacher or your provider I mean
42:33parents do this to kids all the time I
42:35think unknowingly.
42:36>> Yeah.
42:36>> Um having that authoritative role and
42:39saying because if anyone would know your
42:41teacher would know you can't be a
42:42doctor.
42:43>> It's huge.
42:43>> Um so that's a credible
42:45>> Yeah.
42:45>> That was a credible assault.
42:47>> Huge. So that affected me for years and
42:49it wasn't until I got to college, which
42:51by the way I my GPA was so low I barely
42:53got into college. I [laughter]
42:55I I had like a low 2.0 GPA in high
42:57school.
42:57>> Really?
42:57>> Oh yeah. And and I had ADHD so bad I
43:00just could not focus or concentrate. And
43:03then I went to college. Well, first off,
43:04I didn't get into college that I wanted
43:07to go to. I got a letter from them. I I
43:09applied to a lot of schools a lot heard
43:10no from. I got a letter from them and
43:12they said basically you're not in, but
43:14if you come and take summer school and
43:16you average above 3.0, 0 will let you
43:17in.
43:18>> And I said, "Okay." So, I went to school
43:20was the University of Kentucky. Went in,
43:21took summer class, and the first class I
43:23had to take, this first class that I was
43:25talking about, this other teacher was
43:26English class. I had to take English
43:28101. And the first thing I had to do was
43:30a paper. So, I turned in a paper. Felt
43:32good about it. And she said, "Josh,
43:34would you stay after class?"
43:35>> Oh, no.
43:36>> My stomach sunk. I literally thought,
43:37you know, you're never going to be a
43:38doctor. This this is [laughter] again.
43:40And she goes, "Hey, what's your major?"
43:42And I said, "I haven't chosen a major,
43:44Mrs. Williams." And she said, "Well, I
43:46think you should think about being a
43:47journalism major or English major." Cuz
43:49she said, "You know, you you out of the
43:5140 kids, you got the highest grade in
43:52the class. You did a great job."
43:54>> Wow.
43:55>> And can I tell you, like here's what I
43:56call it, Gary. It was a memory
43:58transplant. I went from believing I
43:59wasn't smart. I couldn't do it. Low
44:01self-esteem throughout high school when
44:02it came to academics to all of a sudden
44:06saying, "You know what? One person told
44:07me I could do it. I can do it." And then
44:09from there I started taking all the hard
44:11classes in the chemistry and biology and
44:13biochem and started excelling and
44:16average above a 3.0. You know much later
44:18on I went to graduated John's Hopkins
44:20with a 3.9 GPA.
44:22>> And so all that being said uh but but my
44:25point was this. There's a lot of people
44:27who have had somebody lie to them or
44:28tell them something or they had some
44:30sort of childhood trauma and it's
44:31literally 30 40 50 years later still
44:34sabotaging their mind and their health.
44:36>> Wow. Yeah. Because you know at at that
44:39age it's
44:41it the gravity of something like that is
44:44so
44:45>> magnificent that you just carry it and
44:47carry it and and since you don't share
44:49it nobody can check it like this got
44:52accidentally checked when you got to
44:53college. That's right.
44:54>> But nobody had a chance to really say no
44:56Josh you can absolutely be a doctor if
44:57you wanted to be a doctor. So how do you
45:00go through that process with your your
45:02patients? So, we talked about the the
45:03the labs, but are you are you asking
45:06them questions about stress, lifestyle,
45:08diet, um you know, career, do they feel
45:11like do they feel like that's too
45:13invasive for them? No. No. I mean, I
45:15mean the sleep and the stress in any
45:17type of like those questions are in our
45:19intake form.
45:20>> You know, I think if somebody gets stuck
45:21then we kind of sometimes go layers deep
45:23layers deeper into this. But I would say
45:25this, most of the studies show the
45:27single most beneficial and this is kind
45:28of crazy. The single most beneficial
45:30thing for overcoming childhood trauma is
45:33a person just writing about it.
45:35>> Wow.
45:35>> Yeah. There there's some great research
45:37on this. I got turned on to this from
45:38Jordan Peterson
45:39>> and then there's a there's a I think
45:41it's Dr. Pennaker. I think he's out of
45:43university somewhere in Texas. But
45:46basically spending some time five, 10,
45:4815 minutes writing about uh your
45:50memories like writing your own story and
45:52the your highest of highs and your
45:54lowest of lows
45:55>> and being able to write through and then
45:57identify oh this this is when it
45:59happened this is what I'm feeling and
46:02then going through a process of is this
46:04true or not? Is it like for myself, is
46:07it true that I wasn't smart or was it
46:08that I wasn't interested in the topic
46:11and I just had a hard time? I wasn't
46:13meant to be sitting in a classroom for
46:15eight hours a day, right?
46:16>> You know, and so being able to come to
46:17that truth, the the real truth and then
46:21affirming that over time is is part of
46:23the process. I think people can really
46:25>> Yeah. I think that's really good to to
46:27frame that. Um let's talk about heal
46:30yourselves.
46:30>> Yeah. Um, what was the impetus for for
46:33this book? And what do you mean by heal
46:34yourselves? How how do you heal? I want
46:37to know.
46:38>> Well, well, one, I think I think you you
46:40probably know more about healing
46:41yourselves than almost anyone else I
46:43know. So, I [laughter] do want to say
46:44that because I mean, you are I think I
46:46think one of the leading experts in
46:48cellular medicine, but
46:50>> but but but but I'll share this. So, I
46:53was diagnosed with a spinal infection
46:55and you know this because you're one of
46:56the people I talked to a few uh quite a
46:58few three and a half years ago and was
47:01told I may never walk normally again
47:02that I'd likely have to have my spine
47:04fused
47:05>> and you know and I was just
47:07>> from a bad infection
47:08>> from a from an infection I got in my
47:10disc it spread into my bone it was
47:12throughout my entire L5 vertebrae and
47:14then I had an absess by my spinal cord
47:16and so when I got that diagnosis Gary
47:18three and a half four years ago I was
47:20just for 48 hours. Honestly, I felt like
47:23my life was over.
47:24>> Yeah.
47:24>> And I just I spent time in prayer and I
47:27felt like God said, "You're going to be
47:29okay." But and and then and and then I
47:31just said, "You know what? How do I
47:33reverse an irreversible condition? A
47:35condition where the doctor is saying
47:36there's so much of an infection that
47:37your bone is going to be completely gone
47:39and destroyed and your disc is going to
47:41be destroyed. We're going to have to put
47:42in, you know, we're going to have to
47:43fuse and put in maybe maybe even rods."
47:47>> And I said, "You know what?
47:50All I all I can do is spend time in
47:52prayer asking God for healing and do as
47:56much research I can re research I can on
47:58how do I heal that tissue? How do I heal
48:00those cells that are damaged?
48:02>> And so I went down the rabbit hole
48:04reading every study possible and I came
48:05across a study for one on hyperaric
48:07chambers
48:08>> on how
48:10>> one of the best things you could ever do
48:11with that type of infection is do get in
48:13a hyperaric chamber. So I I got in a
48:15hyperaric chamber almost every day for
48:1790 days.
48:18>> Wow. And then I started reading on
48:20natural ways to kill the infection.
48:22Natural ways to because the the key is
48:23>> did that help or did you find that you
48:25got some relief from that?
48:26>> Oh. Oh yeah. I mean it was immensely
48:27helpful.
48:28>> Really? If you know me, you know I don't
48:29recommend anything I haven't personally
48:31tested. That's not a marketing line.
48:33That's just how I operate. I've been on
48:35the road my entire career. Different
48:37time zones, brutal schedules, no margin
48:39for days off. And so I'm constantly
48:41testing what actually works in my own
48:42body. ND was something I keep coming
48:45back to. It's the molecule your cells
48:47use to produce energy and repair. And it
48:49declines faster than most people
48:50realize. When I found Symbiotica's
48:53liposomaal NAD, the absorption
48:55technology is what got my attention. I
48:57tested it. I felt it and it's been in my
48:59bag ever since. I'm always evolving what
49:01I put in my body, and this one has
49:03stayed on the list. I'm genuinely
49:04excited for you to experience it. This
49:06is the standard we hold every product to
49:09before it even reaches you. Now, let's
49:11get back to the Ultimate Human podcast.
49:13And so I started reading on, okay, well,
49:16why won't my disc or bone heal that
49:17well? You know, the big thing I found,
49:19>> they don't get much oxygen.
49:21>> That's right. Presence of oxygen. How do
49:24I drive the most amount of oxygen in the
49:26area? Well, well, it's hyperbear chamber
49:28for one by far. Hot and cold therapy,
49:31alternate alternating those back and
49:33forth.
49:35>> It was doing certain supplements where I
49:37just really got my body in the most
49:38oxygenated um, you know, uh, place
49:41possible. And then it was stem cells and
49:45exoomes.
49:46>> M
49:47>> and and and and so
49:48>> even though it was initially a failed uh
49:52non-sterile procedure for stem cells
49:54that led you there.
49:54>> That's right.
49:55>> You walked your way out of it with
49:57>> with stem cells.
49:57>> Stem cells.
49:58>> Isn't that crazy? I mean, listen, you
49:59know how many people told me? So, so, so
50:01for everybody listening, I I ended up
50:03getting the spinal infection because I
50:04was having back pain that had gotten
50:07much better and I'd had a stem cell
50:09before and it helped tremendously, but I
50:11went in and somehow my disc got infected
50:13that second time or that that time I got
50:15it done. And so, most people said,
50:17"Well, there's no way you'd get stem
50:18cell again." And I said, "Well, now I'm
50:20going to a different place." I went to
50:21see Dr. Raphael Gonzalez and
50:23>> yeah, shout out to Dr. Gonzalez. I think
50:25the absolute world of him
50:27>> and got those stem cells there. And I
50:29will tell you, I mean, what an amazing
50:31part of my healing. You know what else I
50:32got turned on to? I started reading,
50:33well, how do I create more angioenesis
50:35and getting more blood to the area?
50:37>> Well, peptide combinations.
50:39>> Yes.
50:39>> Right. BPC157, TB500, GHQCU, doing this
50:43combination
50:43>> alpha, and Greas VF.
50:45>> And so, what I did was is I went in and
50:47I said, "Okay, I'm going to just do all
50:48these things simultaneously and I'm
50:49going to follow a protocol. I'm not
50:51going to try and heal tomorrow. I'm
50:52going to try and heal over the next
50:53three years, get back to 100%."
50:56And I'm back to 100%. I have zero pain.
50:58And in fact, I have less pain right now
51:00than I did four years ago before all
51:02this happened.
51:02>> And and the tissue that was um uh
51:05necrotic, did it come back? Necrotic is
51:08dead, right?
51:08>> Well, here's the thing. We never did a
51:10test for necrotic tissue. You could just
51:12see on the MRI. And when I do did it
51:14with contrast, you could see the the
51:17fluid, the infection. I mean, you could
51:19see all of that there. It was just lit.
51:21>> And and so,
51:23>> um but honestly, I I just didn't focus
51:24on that. You know, the other thing is
51:26like I got more discouraged the more I
51:27read online. And then I have a friend I
51:29know who went and had the same thing
51:31done and he had to have his spine fused.
51:32So, so you know, I could have fixed my
51:34eyes on well, he didn't heal and a lot
51:36of these other people didn't heal. But I
51:37just said, you know what? I'm going to
51:38trust God and I'm going to do everything
51:40I can in my power
51:42>> to flood these tissues with blood flow
51:43and oxygen.
51:45>> And I did and my body was able to
51:47completely heal and regenerate.
51:48>> So, this was the genesis of heal
51:51yourself.
51:52>> It was. And so I said I said to myself,
51:54okay, I want to write a book about
51:55cellular healing and about how to re
51:57reverse irreversible conditions. So
51:59people that have gone to the doctor and
52:00said you have MS
52:02>> or you have cancer or you have
52:05>> you know autoimmune disease even today
52:06most doctors will say you can't reverse
52:08that.
52:08>> Yeah.
52:08>> And whether it's reversing it or
52:10improving it by 90%.
52:12The focus is how do we heal your cells?
52:14And you know your cells essentially are
52:16almost like little bodies. They have or
52:17they have organs. We call them organels.
52:20And I started doing research on how to
52:21heal the cell membrane, which of course
52:24fatty acids like omega-3s and
52:26phospholipids and preventing oxidative
52:28stress, highdose glutathione. I mean,
52:30these things are amazing for the cell
52:31membrane.
52:31>> I've seen people go through these PK
52:33protocols and have lifechanging uh
52:36>> I mean, and to your point, hydrogen.
52:37>> Yeah.
52:37>> I mean, that's also incredibly
52:39protective against oxidative stress and
52:41then doing things for the mitochondria.
52:42So, I just broke down and looked at the
52:44cell and said, "Okay, you know what?
52:45Hypothyroidism, that's primarily a
52:47mitochondrial issue." So I started
52:48focusing on healing the mitochondria.
52:50Oh, a lot of these heart issues. This is
52:51more of a cell membrane issue. Let's
52:53focus on healing the cell membrane.
52:54Digging into all that research there. So
52:56I think that almost any condition
52:58somebody's struggling with whether it be
53:00hypothyroidism, infertility, low
53:01testosterone, if you can focus on going
53:03to furthest upstream or that main area
53:06where dysfunction starts. And if we can
53:09fix things there, yeah, you have your
53:11greatest chance of healing. And so
53:12that's what, you know, I put in the book
53:14heal yourselves is all about. How do you
53:16completely fix and heal your cells? And
53:18then that in, you know, as a byproduct,
53:20fixes and heals your organs.
53:22>> And and what do you find is just a
53:23general practice um or lifestyle choices
53:26somebody could implement tomorrow um
53:30>> to have a healthy cellular environment.
53:33>> Yeah. I I think first and foremost is
53:36you you want to do a com There's three
53:38things I want to touch on in particular.
53:40Mhm.
53:41>> One you really hit on when I had you on
53:42my podcast and that was
53:44>> we want to detoxify the cell.
53:46>> Yes.
53:47>> Now, if you think about it like this,
53:49your body is continually repairing and
53:50healing. That's what's amazing. That
53:51that's one of the things that was most
53:52inspiring to me is knowing my body is is
53:55continually regenerating, but your house
53:57is like a home being remodeled, right?
53:59You have you have certain tissues that
54:01are very unhealthy. It's like termite
54:02damage or water damage. We need to go
54:04and take that and remove that. That's
54:06the detoxification. We got to detox the
54:08cell. The second thing is we need to
54:11have the right building blocks and
54:12materials. You need the right amino
54:14acids. You need the right fatty acids.
54:16You need the right micronutrients.
54:18That's going to help rebuild healthy
54:19tissue.
54:20>> But the third thing, and this was maybe
54:21the most important,
54:23>> you need to have enough energy.
54:25>> Yeah,
54:25>> most people do not have enough cellular
54:27energy.
54:28>> So, think about hypothyroidism. You
54:30don't even have enough,
54:31>> you know, energy for your body to heat
54:33itself or create thicker hair or or
54:35support your own metabolism. And so one
54:37of the greatest things you can do, and
54:38this is tied to the mitochondria, boost
54:40up that cellular energy. And that's
54:42related to just sleep better.
54:44>> Wear your blue blockers at night. Get
54:46your room black, dark, get it cold. Stop
54:50looking at, you know, listen to an audio
54:52book rather than watch something before
54:54bed, you know, but do everything you can
54:55to one, sleep better, reduce stress.
54:59Part of that is having more fun. You
55:01know, schedule things you love to do,
55:02schedule more downtime, connect more
55:04with family. Yeah. walk in nature. You
55:06know, movement is in fact,
55:08>> oh gosh, I totally agree.
55:09>> The number one thing somebody can do to
55:11boost mitochondria outside of sleep
55:13>> is build muscle.
55:15>> I mean, muscle is where your your muscle
55:17and your heart and your brain or where
55:19by far the most mitochondria are.
55:20>> So, the fastest way to build
55:22mitochondria is boosting your muscle
55:23mass. So, so weight training. So, so you
55:26know, get some bands at home or some
55:27dumbbells, do that sort of And from a
55:29dietary standpoint,
55:31meat and vegetables and low glycemic
55:34fruit.
55:34>> Oh my god, I am so glad you said that.
55:36Can you say that again?
55:37>> Yeah. Meat.
55:38>> Meat, vegetables, low glycemic fruit. I
55:40mean, if you're wondering what to do,
55:41you know, the person I'm counseling
55:43right now and we're going through his
55:44natural cancer protocol. It's I'm having
55:46him eat salmon predominantly
55:49>> and, you know, and and other people
55:50would have them do chicken and fish and
55:52eggs, you know, so get a lot of protein.
55:54And then it's pomegranate, it's berries,
55:57it's apples, it's kiwi, you know, it's
55:59it's these
55:59>> he is getting some sugars,
56:01>> but it's so low. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm
56:03saying no. With him, uh I told him he
56:07said he said, "Well, what do I eat
56:08ideally if I could just eat one meal?"
56:09I'm like,
56:10>> "Smon and cabbage." I mean, cabbage has
56:12vitamin U sulfur. It's so it's so
56:14incredible for for for the colon. In
56:17fact,
56:17>> salmon and cabbage. Salmon and cabbage.
56:18Salmon.
56:18>> Yeah. Now, I have doing a little cabbage
56:21like sauerkraut or just
56:22>> That's in the evening. Yeah. And I have
56:24him do bok choy. I mean, he does other
56:26things, but generally his diet is pretty
56:27much
56:29salmon and steamed vegetables. And I
56:33have him do one piece of fruit a day.
56:34And it's typically just it's an apple or
56:37blueberries.
56:38>> And that's that that's primarily. But
56:40but for most people generally, I I think
56:42if you want to know what to do, meat,
56:44vegetables, low glycemic fruit.
56:45>> I would wholly agree with that. and then
56:47address the stress and address the sleep
56:50and address the environment because you
56:52know like we talked about before all
56:54cancer regardless of its former origin
56:56was at one time a healthy cell.
56:58>> That's right.
56:58>> And that met metabolism shifted for a
57:00reason. We have believed for centuries
57:02that healthy cells can become sick.
57:05>> For whatever reason, we don't believe
57:06that sick cells can become healthy. And
57:08I totally disagree with that. Agree.
57:10>> And I think you would too. What are um I
57:13I want to I want to wind the podcast
57:14down by saying
57:16>> what are some of the things that have
57:18surprised you or shocked you the most
57:19about um uh traditional Chinese
57:24medicine? Like where have you seen it be
57:27effective over and over and over again?
57:29And even you're like, "Wow, it's worked
57:31again." Like really?
57:33>> Um I've had that experience with
57:35hydrogen. You know, people think that I
57:36always have an angle with hydrogen. I
57:38think that the role of hydrogen gas in
57:40the human body is
57:41one of the greatest discoveries of our
57:43millennia. I am that fascinated by it.
57:46But what is it about Chinese medicine um
57:51traditional eastern medicine that
57:53>> has continued to surprise you?
57:54>> Well, well, one I would say it's the
57:56combination of the accuracy and the
57:58effectiveness.
57:59>> You know, Chinese medicine is really
58:00built over it's millions of individual
58:02case studies. It's there were
58:03practitioners that just kept finding
58:05patterns and patterns and patterns and
58:06saying, "Hey, you know what? This works
58:08for this condition. This works for
58:10this." and they found it to be
58:11repeatable. But I, you know, I've really
58:13found that like if I look at somebody's
58:15tongue
58:16>> and I can see what's going on there and
58:18put together a dietary plan for them,
58:20>> the outcomes will be better than any
58:22other sort of testing I could do.
58:24>> Wow.
58:25>> Better than anything.
58:26>> Ayurveda would tell you the same thing,
58:27right? The oldest form of medicine I
58:28think in the world.
58:29>> This very same thing. And so like I can
58:31look at somebody's tongue and say,
58:32"Okay, you should not you should not eat
58:34any raw vegetables." You know, for
58:36instance, as an example, you know, like
58:38if somebody's tongue is really pale and
58:40and it's like a pale pink rather than a
58:42bright vibrant pink,
58:44>> no raw vegetables, lots of red meat, do
58:47beats. I mean, I can tell from
58:48somebody's tongue just it's just
58:51incredibly incredibly accurate. So, I'm
58:52blown away by that. And just the the the
58:54level of personalization. Think about
58:56it. We are just now in main even
58:59functional medicine stepping into a
59:00level of personalization. One of one of
59:02the challenges today and I want to say
59:04downfalls of even some types of
59:06functional medicine is I still see
59:07doctors doing this no matter what the
59:10patient has going on. Some certain
59:12practitioners will put all of them on a
59:14ketogenic diet
59:15>> or all of them on low carb or all of
59:18them on vegan or all of them on
59:19carnivore.
59:20>> Everybody is different.
59:22>> I totally agree with that. So when you
59:23go to Chinese medicine Ayurveda, they've
59:25been doing personalized medicine for
59:27over 3,000 years and fine-tuning the
59:30exact herbs and diet, even lifestyle
59:32changes that need to be done for that
59:34individual.
59:35>> Yeah. Wow. That's so fascinating. So you
59:38know that I I I wind down all my
59:40podcasts by asking my guests the same
59:42question. Um and I asked it to you
59:43before I was okay. Well, you know, I
59:46better get ready.
59:47>> Yeah, [laughter] it's coming. There's no
59:49right or wrong answer to this. You had a
59:50great answer last time. So, um, what
59:53does it mean to you to be an ultimate
59:54human?
59:57>> To be an ultimate human is to be like
59:58Jesus Christ. And I think it's this
1:00:00ultimately it's you're taking
1:00:03>> you're honoring God with your temple.
1:00:05You're seeing your body as a temple of
1:00:06the Holy Spirit and you're doing
1:00:08everything you can to have your maximum
1:00:09impact here on earth. And so, it reminds
1:00:11me of, you know, just I I was meeting
1:00:13with Michael W. Smith. He's a famous
1:00:15musician. He was on my show recently and
1:00:17I was talking to him and he has a mentor
1:00:18and a friend. We have a a friend of both
1:00:20of us. The guy's 96 years old and he
1:00:22just did a mission trip to to to uh Iraq
1:00:26at 96 years old
1:00:28>> doing I mean just incredibly healthy,
1:00:30incredibly well. But he's everything he
1:00:33does is to glorify God. He's eating to
1:00:34glorify God. He's exercising to glorify
1:00:36God. He's learning to glorify God. So he
1:00:38he has just such a amazing mind with us.
1:00:41But I would say in order for people to
1:00:42reach their highest human potential,
1:00:44they need to grow in their skill and
1:00:47their character. Take your character to
1:00:48the highest level possible. take your
1:00:50skill to the highest level possible.
1:00:52>> And you can only do those things and be
1:00:53most effective with your life if you are
1:00:56eating and moving and thinking and doing
1:01:00all these things uh to glorify God with
1:01:03your body. Reminds me of a Bible verse,
1:01:04one of my favorites. It's 1 Corinthians
1:01:0610:31. Whether you eat, drink, or
1:01:09whatever you do, do all to the glory of
1:01:11God. So, I really think to be the
1:01:12ultimate human is to use your gifts for,
1:01:15you know, to to help the maximum amount
1:01:17of people.
1:01:18>> Wow. Incredible, man. Uh, I always love
1:01:20having you on the podcast, Heal Your
1:01:22Cells. You're writing books faster than
1:01:23I can read them. Congratulations. I'll
1:01:25put a link to the uh I'll put a link in
1:01:27the show notes for the books and also um
1:01:30uh to those bioarkers that that you
1:01:33talked about because there was one or
1:01:34two in there that I'm not used to to
1:01:36dealing with. So, I'm going to start
1:01:37going down the rabbit hole in those.
1:01:38But,
1:01:39>> Dr. Josh Axe, thank you for coming on
1:01:40the Ultimate Human. I hope you'll come
1:01:42back again. And until next time, guys,
1:01:44that's just science.

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