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Dr. Jay Smith EXAMINES The Hidden Historical Problems Behind Islam’s Origins — Transcript

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0:00And it's this newest research on the
0:02historical problems with Islam's origin.
0:05Back in 1992, I was sent to Britain to
0:10London to work with radical Muslims.
0:12That's my area of expertise. I have a
0:14master's degree in Islamic ap uh Islamic
0:17studies. I have another master's degree
0:19in uh in apologetics, Christian
0:21apologetics.
0:23And so I was sent there to deal with
0:26this real growing radical movement. If
0:28any of you come from Britain, you know
0:30what I'm talking about. This is the
0:31Mahajulun party. These are the uh Anjam
0:34Chowri or Shik Omar Bakar Muhammad, all
0:36his group. These people that were sent
0:38to join ISIS in 2014. These are the
0:42people I was asked to go work with. And
0:44so I went in 1992 and I found and I was
0:47told the best place to find the radicals
0:49and the best place to engage with them
0:51was at a place called Speaker's Corner.
0:53Have any of you here been to Speaker's
0:55Corner? Okay. What have you noticed at
0:57Speaker's Corner? What's happening
0:58there?
1:00Go ahead. Just tell me what your
1:02experience.
1:05Did you see Muslims there
1:08on a Sunday? It's only on Sundays,
1:10right? And what kind of Muslims did you
1:11meet?
1:15Were they very radical?
1:18>> Were they talking about Islam?
1:21No. What were they talking about?
1:25Christianity, right?
1:27No. Yes. You're not sure.
1:31And this is my experience. In 1992, I
1:33went down there and I found that almost
1:35every one of the Muslims that were there
1:37and they dominated the corner in the
1:39afternoons. In the mornings, there were
1:40hardly any Muslims because they hadn't
1:41got up yet. But in the afternoons, they
1:43took over and everybody else left. And
1:46they came with Bibles in their hands,
1:48not Qurans.
1:4925 years of working at Speaker's Corner,
1:51which I uh uh I have I've maybe maybe
1:55seen one or two Qurans in 25 years. We
1:58have the Qurans. They don't. And they
2:01had all these post-it notes all the way
2:03through the Quran with all the seeming
2:05historical anacronisms, the scientific
2:07errors, the contradictions. You name it,
2:10they had it. And I had never heard this
2:11material before because we don't teach
2:14in our seminaries and our Bible schools
2:16how to deal with that kind of
2:18confrontation.
2:20And so I realized, but my goodness, I
2:22had a master's degree in uh in
2:25apologetics, but not Islamic
2:27apologetics. No one had taught me about
2:29all these historical anacronisms, these
2:31scientific errors, these internal
2:33contradictions. We don't get this in
2:35seminary.
2:37And I realized that I was way below the
2:39curve. And so I had to take a notebook
2:40with me. My wife the first time I came
2:42back completely disillusioned. She says,
2:44"Get back out there and just take a
2:46notebook and write down the questions
2:47and learn your apologetics." And that's
2:49what I did week after week after week
2:52for 25 years. But it was very quickly
2:55that I realized that we were doing all
2:57the defending. We weren't going on the
2:59offense. We had nothing ready to go on
3:01the offense. And because there is no
3:03school in the world that teaches that.
3:05And the word they use for that is called
3:07pmics. Have you all heard this word? Do
3:08you know what I'm talking about? So,
3:10PMICS is on the offense. Apologetics is
3:14on the defense. Just like your American
3:15football teams, you have two completely
3:17different teams. Do you not? An offense
3:19team and a defense and you have two
3:20completely different skills.
3:23Apologetics, we do pretty good when it
3:25comes to humanists and when it comes to
3:28atheists. In fact, you're going to
3:29there's a whole track here called
3:30apologetics. And now we're under that
3:33track. those of us who here who are
3:35doing Islam but no one really knew how
3:38to go on the offense and there's no book
3:41written about polymics there's none at
3:43all there's no a course that I could
3:45take there was no one I could go to and
3:48I didn't really know how to go on the
3:50offense
3:52then in 1994 I took a class at school of
3:56African studies under Dr. Gerald Hawking
3:59and I went into this class of 50
4:00students and it was on this title, the
4:03origins of Islam. I thought, well,
4:05that's pretty innocuous. I know the
4:06origins. I've read the Sitta. I know
4:08who, you know, Ibn Hisham. I've read all
4:10of his material. I know who Muhammad
4:12was. I know what he did. That what more
4:14is there to learn? So, I went there
4:15thinking that I knew probably more than
4:17the professor. At least I wasn't going
4:18to learn too much. And the very first
4:20day, he started talking. He says, you
4:22know, we have nothing. We have no idea
4:24who Muhammad is. We have no reference to
4:27him at all in the seventh century. Are
4:30you aware of that? This man who was born
4:32in 570,
4:35moved to Medina, I'm sorry, move was in
4:37Mecca in 570,
4:39started receiving revelations in Mecca
4:42in 610, moved to Medina in 622, and then
4:45died there in Medina in 632. So from 570
4:48to 632, nothing was written about him at
4:51all. Not a word. I hadn't heard this
4:55before.
4:56That wasn't taught me at Fuller Seminary
4:58when I was doing my my post-graduate on
5:02Islam. And then he said that everything
5:04we know about what this man said, this
5:07supposed Muhammad said does not come
5:10from the seventh century does not come
5:12from any eyewitness account like we have
5:14with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. John
5:16and Matthew were there listening to what
5:18Jesus said. John and Matthew were there
5:21seeing what Jesus did. Right? So we have
5:22eyewitness account of what Jesus said,
5:24what he did, there's his biography,
5:26there is his sayings. That's called the
5:28s and the and the hadith of Jesus. So
5:31we've got that in loads, but we have
5:34nothing on Muhammad. Nothing on
5:35Muhammad. And we're talking about 6 to
5:37700 years later, 600 years later, we
5:40have nothing on Muhammad. Boy, I hadn't
5:42heard that before.
5:45And then all these guys, and I'm going
5:46to be going into this later on tonight,
5:48all these fells who had written about
5:50Muhammad. So, Ibn Isak 765, Ibn Hisham
5:54833, Al-Wikidi 835,
5:58al-Bari 870, Sahibus 8. Are you
6:00listening to the dates? You notice the
6:03dates?
6:05765, 8:33, 8:35, 870. Muhammad died in
6:09632. Do you see a problem there? See, I
6:12had heard this before. Have you heard
6:13this before tonight?
6:16Not one word about Muhammad.
6:19Yet he was supposed to be one of the
6:20greatest men in the history of mankind.
6:22There was supposed to be a huge corpus
6:24of of literature written about what he
6:26did, what he said, where he went, how he
6:28lived, h and how he became the model for
6:30all of mankind. But we couldn't find one
6:32reference to him. Not one reference in
6:35the seventh century.
6:37Well, there were about 25 students who
6:39were Muslims in the class in a group of
6:4150 of us. And as he was saying this, he
6:43started saying other things. Do you know
6:45we can't find one mosque at all from the
6:47seventh century that's facing a city
6:49called Mecca. In fact, we can't find any
6:51reference to any on anywhere on this
6:54city called Mecca. That this place the
6:56place where Muhammad was born, the place
6:57where he actually lived and the place
7:00which is where the Cabba is today.
7:03I never heard this before.
7:06Of course, the Muslim students didn't
7:08know what to do. They never heard before
7:09either. In fact, everybody in the class,
7:12all 50 of us hadn't heard this before.
7:15And then he said, "When you look at that
7:17great structure in Jerusalem called the
7:18Dome of the Rock, written by created by
7:21by uh uh Alban Al- Malik,
7:25look at that structure. Beautiful dome.
7:28You've seen pictures of it if you
7:29haven't been to Jerusalem.
7:31Stands there on the Temple Mount." He
7:33said, "It has no kibla. It has no
7:35direction of prayer." Did you know that?
7:38Yet, this is the third most holy shrine
7:40in Islam, and it has no direction of
7:42prayer. And I said, "Whoa." And then, as
7:44I was listening to this, I noticed that
7:46every one of these Muslim students was
7:48getting up off the chair, walking to the
7:51door,
7:52slamming the door as they went out and
7:54yelling something of some abuse at Dr.
7:57Gerald Hunting.
7:59After two weeks, every Muslim had left.
8:03We had no Muslims left. Half the class
8:05just got up and left, slamming the door.
8:07And I started looking at this and I
8:09said, "This is amazing."
8:12Well, here's a palemic I can use. See,
8:14this I had never been taught. And I
8:16said, "These guys have no response to
8:18this. Not one word."
8:21But this should be easy for them because
8:23we've had the same pmic against us, have
8:26we not? Remember Wellhousen?
8:28Remember the school in Tubigan in
8:30Germany? Remember the attacks against
8:32the person of Jesus Christ? The attacks
8:34against his res his uh death and
8:36resurrection. all the enormous attacks
8:38against Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John
8:40and the the gospel, the uh letters of
8:43Paul and the book of re there huge
8:46attacks that were coming in the late
8:471800s until 1905. It decimated the
8:51church. That's called historical
8:53criticism.
8:54That's called form criticism,
8:57source criticism, textual criticism.
9:00Well, I've grown up with that. So, we've
9:02already had this problem. and it
9:04decimated the church in Europe and the
9:06church has never recovered. But
9:08otherwise, we've gone and found answers
9:10to every one of those criticisms. In
9:12fact, though we didn't start those
9:14criticisms in Christianity, we enlarged
9:15upon them and we basically matured those
9:17criticisms so that today we can pretty
9:20well be able to answer every one of
9:22those. And that's exactly what they're
9:23going to be doing here at ELF these next
9:26few days. But this had never been
9:28applied to Islam. And I was watching as
9:31these guys were leaving. Well, I decided
9:33I was going to go down and take this
9:35material down to Speaker's Corner. Not a
9:37very smart thing to do.
9:39Speaker's Corner in the 1990s was very
9:41violent.
9:43And um you say something they don't if
9:46the Muslims don't like, they actually
9:47beat you up. You get punched in the
9:49face. You get your glasses broken. And I
9:52started getting my glasses broken. I
9:53started getting punched. And I'd come
9:55home with blood down my face. And one
9:57day I was up on I was trying to engage
10:00with some of these guys. There was what
10:03they would do is the at speaker's corner
10:05whenever you want to speak you get up on
10:06a ladder these little kitchen ladders
10:07that you have in your in your kitchen
10:09not very high just two steps just so
10:11your head's above the crowd and you
10:14speak from there but you you you have to
10:16create a crowd. And the way to create a
10:19crowded speaker corner is either be
10:20humorous or say something that's
10:22controversial
10:24or get into a back and forth with the
10:26crowd itself. Those are the three areas
10:29that do that. And everyone in the
10:31afternoons, all the humanists had left
10:34and all the Jehovah Witness had left and
10:36all of the black liberationists had
10:38left. Everybody had left because the
10:40Muslims showed up. And when the Muslims
10:41showed up, they don't want to stay
10:42around because they don't yell at you.
10:45They actually beat you up. And that's
10:47why they're very physical in the 1990s.
10:49I'm talking about the 1990s.
10:52And so I was in the middle of a crowd
10:53there and there was a Talib there was a
10:55man Abu Saf Safyan is his name. Abu
10:58Sufyan. He was a convert to Islam. He
11:00used to be a professional boxer and uh
11:02he had converted to Islam and so now he
11:04was had his own Talib. Talibes mean his
11:07own students all around him. He was from
11:09Trinidad and he was taking on saying
11:12things about our Bible and saying things
11:13about Jesus Christ and he was misquing
11:15our scriptures. So I ebled my way
11:18forward and I started yelling at him. I
11:20said, "You've got it wrong, but why
11:21don't we talk about your material? What
11:23about your difficulties? What about your
11:25Quran? What about the internal errors
11:27that we have in the Quran?" He got off
11:29his ladder and he just slammed me. Now
11:31when you have a professional boxer hit
11:33you, you go out cold. I have no idea
11:35what happened next. All I know is the
11:37next about a number of well however many
11:40later the police came and dragged me out
11:42and I was battered and bruised and I
11:46said to the police what happened and my
11:48lips were all goldfed and they said they
11:51were kicking you about 60 of the
11:53disciples were kicking you on the ground
11:54and a big black man came and laid on top
11:57of you and took your blows for you. I
12:00said well where is he? Just disappeared
12:03like that. So, who do you think that
12:05was?
12:07That's Barry, my black angel. I have
12:09Barry that protects me every time I'm
12:10down there. Amazing guy. I've never
12:12really met him. I've only seen him
12:14twice, but the Muslims have seen him.
12:16So, that happened in 1995. And the Musl
12:18and the police came to me and said,
12:20"Don't you ever do what you just did
12:21today." I said, "Well, all I'm doing is
12:22asking questions." He said, "Don't you
12:24ever do that. You get your own ladder so
12:25we can see you at all times for my own
12:28protection." So, I got a ladder. But
12:29they don't teach you in seminary how to
12:31speak from a ladder. Did you guys get
12:33taught like that when you were in
12:34seminary to a hostile crowd? No. I
12:37remember in seminary we were taught
12:38homalytics and you also had three points
12:40and everybody said yes to you and you
12:43pretty much took those three points
12:44applied it to scripture and then it
12:46showed how it to be is to be applied to
12:47your life and if you did a good job then
12:49you pick you get a good handshake when
12:50you leave the church. Nothing like I had
12:53there at speaker's corner. And so at
12:55speaker's corner it was very clear to me
12:57that this was a completely different
12:58atmosphere and I was not ready for those
13:00kind of ladders. But what was
13:01fascinating is that this material that I
13:04was getting that was starting to be fed
13:05to me there at School of Orient African
13:08Study, this historical material was
13:10probably the best thing to use on the
13:12ladder because once you're on the
13:13ladder, you do have an awful lot of
13:15control. You have an awful lot of power.
13:19You can control the narrative on the
13:21ground, which you can't on the ground.
13:23More than that, you can be seen. Now,
13:25this is back in 1995. There was no
13:28internet back then. There was no no
13:29smartphones back then. So we were not
13:31filming anything. We were just engaging
13:33the crowd that was there. And the crowds
13:36got larger and larger. And suddenly I
13:38realized I had really used my voice. I
13:40was born and grew up in India. And I was
13:42born and grew up in the Himalayan
13:43mountains. So I was living at 7,000 ft.
13:47My boarding hostel was at about 6,500
13:50ft. So I'd had to run up and down to
13:52school every day 500 ft. And if I forgot
13:55something, I had to run back down and
13:56run back up again. So I've got huge
13:58lungs. I've got five liter lungs. For my
14:00body size, I should only have about
14:02three and a half. So I have a liter and
14:03a half more. I can outy yell anybody.
14:05Because of that, the Lord has prepared
14:07me for Speaker's Corner. And so we
14:09started using this material and I
14:11started using my lungs to get it out
14:13there. And the Muslims started making a
14:14ring about and yelling at me. The great
14:16thing about Speaker's Corner, they're
14:18yelling my direction. I'm yelling over
14:20top of them to the crowd behind them.
14:22They've never really ever picked up on
14:24the fact that if they just turned around
14:25and yelled my direction, they could yell
14:27me out. But this way, we always got the
14:29message across. And I realized that this
14:31is a whole new area of PMICS that no one
14:33had used before,
14:35historical criticism. So, we started
14:37doing this these debates. You can see
14:40this guy over here, that's um Muhammad
14:42Ysef. He's actually uh is a convert to
14:45Islam. He's from America and uh he
14:47speaks fluent Arabic. And he would come
14:49down there and we would do these
14:51five-minute debates. He would go for
14:53five minutes. I would go for five
14:54minutes. Five minutes. Five minutes.
14:55Five. That's it. It all you did five
14:56minutes. All you need is a timekeeper.
14:57And the crowds got enormous. We had huge
15:00crowds down there. The great thing about
15:02doing five minutes debates is that the
15:04Muslims could go for about 15 minutes
15:05and they give up. We could go for three
15:07hours. We have so much material that
15:09we're now using down there. I'm going to
15:11be there in about two weeks back at
15:12Speaker's Corner. Every time I go
15:14through London, I get back up on the
15:15ladder and we take on the Muslims with
15:17all our newest material. So in 1994, oh
15:21I I should have put this up there. This
15:22is the Gerald Hotting. That's the
15:23professor that was teaching all this
15:25origins of Islam at School of Orange and
15:27African Studies. Soass is the school
15:29where they train up all of their foreign
15:32foreign workers before they go out into
15:34the into the foreign field. This is
15:36where all your embassy people are
15:37trained uh during the British Raj and
15:40before that. So it is the center it when
15:42they say oriental studies they really
15:44mean Islamic or middle eastern studies
15:46because when it was created back then
15:48the orient was the middle east today the
15:50orient now is far east but still called
15:53that and that's where we were getting I
15:55was getting all my information now about
15:57that time I was challenged to a debate
16:00because it was obvious that the Muslims
16:02could not come up with any response to
16:03this historical material at all. So they
16:06asked if I would debate Dr. Jamal Badawi
16:08who you see pictured there on the right.
16:10Jamal Dr. Bajawi is the lead world at
16:12that time in the uh 1990s was the
16:15world's leading authority on the Quran.
16:17Uh he taught at Halifax University in
16:20Canada. But he went around the world and
16:22he did a series of 350 videos these
16:25these old um VHS videos that uh he on
16:28the Quran on how to understand it, how
16:30to unpack it and how to execute it. And
16:33so he was in Malaysia. was flying back
16:35to England on his way back to Halifax
16:38and so his study base his disciples
16:40asked would I do a debate with him on
16:42the Quran because I was confronting the
16:43Quran historically. I was first I was
16:45using and trying to come up with some
16:47type of manuscript details. I wanted to
16:49come up with how we could confront the
16:51Quran like the the Bible had been
16:52confronted. So I said well listen I've
16:55never debated before. I've never been
16:56taught how to do debate but let's do a
16:58try. Let's do it. Let's have a two-hour
16:59debate. So he came through. He went to
17:01Cambridge University at Trinity College
17:04and there in 1995 in August of 1945 we
17:07had the first debate that I've ever done
17:09on is the Quran the word of God. That
17:11was the title. Is the Quran the word of
17:13God?
17:14He was thinking of only really in uh
17:16showing how from internally the Quran is
17:19the word of God. I was going to show
17:20from an external standpoint there is no
17:22Quran. So that was the first time I'd
17:24ever used this material and I'd gave 10
17:27historical challenges be in order to get
17:29those challenges. I had gone to
17:31Cambridge University the week before and
17:33I had gone into the office of a a
17:36scholar named Dr. Patricia Kuran. Does
17:38any of you know who she is? Dr. Patricia
17:40Corona. No one knows that name. Dr.
17:42Patricia Kurono is probably was at her
17:44time before she died was the leading
17:46world's leading scholar on ancient or
17:49archaic Islam. She reads and writes 15
17:52languages all archaic languages many of
17:54which are no longer used today. She's
17:56from Denmark. She was head of department
17:59at Oxford University and wrote a book
18:01called Hagerism
18:03was vilified for that and then she went
18:05and wrote a book called Meccan Trade in
18:07the rise of Islam in 1987 for which she
18:09got death threats for writing basically
18:11doing what I'm going to do tonight or
18:12sorry tomorrow. In fact, I wanted to use
18:15her material. So I wanted to get to know
18:17her and I wanted to find it. And we went
18:18into the her office and for about three
18:20hours she went through the material that
18:22I was going to go through and she says,
18:23"Use that? No, don't use that. Here's a
18:25better way to say it. Here let me give
18:26you some new material." And so what
18:28after three hours she gave me 10
18:29historical challenges that I was going
18:32to give to Dr. Jamal Badawi and I turned
18:34to her and I said you know Dr. Cone, why
18:36don't you do this debate? I've never
18:37done the debate in my life. I'm not a
18:39debater. Why don't you do this debate?
18:41This is your material. You know it
18:44intimately. You're the one that's
18:46researched it and you've got such a lot
18:47of pos. She's so passionate when she
18:50speaks. And she kind of looked at me and
18:52she laughed. She says, "Hold on a
18:53minute, Jay. Let me tell you something.
18:55I've got a chair to protect. I've got an
18:57institution to represent. I can would
18:59never do this debate
19:02in my department. There are many other
19:03Muslims. If I were to ever debate this
19:05material publicly, I would be thrown out
19:07of the university even though I have
19:08tenure here. She says, "But you, you
19:12have no chair to protect and the only
19:14person you represent is Jesus Christ."
19:16Woo! Here was an atheist telling me who
19:18who I represented. Isn't that amazing?
19:20It took an atheist to help me see what
19:22was happening here. She says, "We in
19:25academia cannot debate this
19:28and certainly not in Britain anymore."
19:30That's why I had to take my doctorate on
19:32and move it down to Australia because
19:34you can't do a doctorate that's critical
19:35of Islam anymore in Britain.
19:38But I can as a non-academic says you're
19:42going to do this debate and you're going
19:43to take on jumb jumbo and you're going
19:45to see that he won't be able to respond
19:48to any one of these 10 challenges. So I
19:50went down we had the debate. He had
19:52never heard this material before as
19:54which is typical because Muslims have
19:56will never have heard what I'm going to
19:57tell you in the next two days.
19:59His only response was this.
20:02Mr. Smith, you're only arguing from
20:05silence.
20:07And the absence of evidence does not
20:10prove the evidence of absence.
20:12And he hung me. You're right.
20:16The absence of evidence does not prove
20:17the ev the evidence of absence. I
20:20couldn't really go beyond that. He had
20:22me. He was really I was I had no
20:25comeback on that. He said it may you we
20:28not may not find it now but give us
20:31time. We will find who Muhammad is. We
20:33will find where he lived. We will find
20:34all the material that we need to support
20:36him and what he said and what he did and
20:39where this place Mecca was and of course
20:41the Cabba itself. And as far as the
20:43Quran, don't you don't try to take me on
20:45the Quran. I'm the world authority on
20:46this.
20:48Well, that was 1995, August 1995.
20:53We're now in May of 2024.
20:58What I'm going to share with you today
20:59and tomorrow completely turns the
21:02tables.
21:04Everything I'm going to show you does
21:06not come from the 9th or 10th or 11th or
21:0812th century. Everything I'm going to
21:09share with you will come from the
21:11seventh and 8th century. I'm going to go
21:13to the very century where everything
21:15happened. I'm going to go through the
21:16very center where this supposed this man
21:18Muhammad lived, where supposedly where
21:20he received this Quran and supposedly
21:22where he lived, but not only that, what
21:24he said and did. I'm going to shut all
21:26that down in the next two days. And the
21:29only thing I'm going to use is evidence.
21:31I'll be using coins. I'll be using
21:34inscriptions. I'll be using manuscripts.
21:37I will be using buildings.
21:40That's why it's very visual. That's why
21:42I want you to look at the screen as we
21:44go through it. All right. And that's why
21:46I want you to take this PowerPoint home
21:48with you so that you can use it wherever
21:50you're at. So that's all I'm going to do
21:53and that's exactly what I've done. So
21:55what has happened into intervening
21:57layers the years we've tra changed this
22:00whole discussion on its head. No longer
22:02am I arguing from silence. In fact, I
22:05have all the evidence. Everything he's
22:07going to say now he's no longer living
22:09so I can't debate him a second time. But
22:12everything that Muslims are going to say
22:14will be from silence. They will not be
22:16able to support either the man or their
22:19book or their place. And those are the
22:21three things we're going to hit. The
22:22book, the man, and the place. The book,
22:24the Quran, the man Muhammad, and the
22:26place Mecca.
22:28And so Colin Chapman, a good friend of
22:30mine, listen, I love Colin Chapman, but
22:31he decided that I had to stop this. Stop
22:34going to speaker's corner and stop using
22:36historical criticism. So he challenged
22:38me to a debate. He wasn't going to do
22:40the debate. Dr. David Marshall was going
22:41to do the debate. It was going to be an
22:43in-house debate at Bur at Sully Oaks
22:45College in Birmingham. And we were going
22:47to debate two things. The two things
22:50we're going to debate is should we use
22:53PMICS with Muslims
22:55and should we employ historical
22:57criticism. Those are the two subjects.
22:59And I was saying yes to both. And Dr.
23:01David Marshall who has his doctorate
23:03from from uh Oxford University on the
23:06Quran. So he should know what he's
23:08talking about. He was going to argue
23:10that we should not do those. We should
23:12not use pmics, not against Muslims, and
23:15we should never use historical criticism
23:17because of the damage it has done to our
23:18Bible. And I'm scratching my head. What
23:20damage?
23:22So, we went for two hours. Now, the it
23:24was a in-house debate, which means only
23:26other Christians could come to it, but
23:28they had to be academics. They had to be
23:30people who were either doing their
23:31doctorate or they had a chair on a
23:33certain university. They had to be
23:34Christians, but they they were all
23:36invited. and they only invited 50
23:38scholars to come to this debate.
23:4125 of them were academics who had chairs
23:44on different academic institutions
23:45around Britain. The other 25 were
23:47missionaries like me who though I had
23:50academic degrees I wasn't belong I
23:52didn't belong to any academic
23:53institution. We went for two hours and
23:56then they have a show of hands. How many
23:58of you agree with Jay and how many of
24:00you agree with David?
24:03How many do you think or which group do
24:06you think went with me? And which group
24:08do you think went with David? The
24:10missionaries or the academics? Who do
24:13you think went with me?
24:15Well, let me give a show of hands. How
24:17many of you think the academics went
24:18with me? Put your hands up.
24:22Okay. How many of you thought the
24:24missionaries went with me?
24:26The missionaries have it. You're
24:28correct.
24:29But see, I didn't understand this at
24:31all. So, Dr. Peter Redell.
24:34Dr. Peter Redell
24:36on the way back to London, he was in the
24:38car with me. He was from Australia at
24:40the M Melbourne School of Theology. He
24:42explained it to me. He said, "Jay, I
24:44love what you're doing and don't ever
24:45stop what you're doing, but don't ever
24:47ask me to do that. As academics, we
24:50cannot do this debate. We cannot even
24:53introduce this in our classes. We dare
24:56not go public with what you're saying
24:58because we have many times we have
25:00Muslims on staff with us. If ever a
25:02Muslim heard what we were saying, we
25:04would be thrown out of our universities.
25:06We could not. That's why all the
25:07academics went with David. It's out of
25:10necessity they had to go with him.
25:13But as far as I'm concerned, please
25:16don't ever stop. And that's why he
25:17became the my supervisor for my PhD
25:20because he had that attitude. And that's
25:22why I changed my doctorate from London
25:24School of Theology and moved it down to
25:26Melbourne School of Theology. So that
25:28happened in 1997.
25:30Now
25:32since that time I've come back to it
25:35because then 9/11 happened. You all know
25:37what happened with 9/11 and that kind of
25:39changed the whole narrative. Suddenly
25:40Islam which was a very much a religion
25:42of violence now became a religion of
25:44peace almost overnight. And no longer
25:47were they beating us up at Speaker's
25:48Corner. It was so nice. I didn't get any
25:51bruised heads or I didn't have any
25:53broken glasses. And it was so nice to be
25:55able to start finally discussing and
25:57using and talking and knowing that I get
25:59home on time every evening. So from n
26:02from 2001 up until 2017 when I was
26:05there, I started doing the debates for
26:07the different Christian unions around
26:08the university campuses. And I did I did
26:11about a hundred I think a 100 formal
26:13debates on university campuses until
26:152010 when the Muslims realized that the
26:18material that we were using was just
26:20getting too strong. So they call me a
26:21hate preacher and an Islamophobe.
26:24Once you get that tag, no longer are you
26:26permitted on any university. So since
26:282010, I'm not permitted on any British
26:31university anymore and others have to do
26:33it in my place. But what was fascinating
26:35is this material then started really
26:38coming into play in around 2020. So in
26:41the last four years, everything opened
26:43up and it had to do with some coins that
26:45we found. Some coins that I'm going to
26:47introduce. In fact, I've got them in my
26:49bag. You're going to see the coins and
26:52I'm going to encourage any one of you to
26:54buy these coins up. If you have any
26:55money, please buy them. You need them
26:58because the Muslims are buying them up
26:59and melting them down because this is
27:01one of the most difficult evidences
27:03against them. I would ask you to also
27:05buy the the rock inscriptions, but
27:07they're too big and they're not for sale
27:09because the rock inscriptions are doing
27:11amazing amazing work for us. But in 2020
27:15I was in the British Museum and Doc and
27:17Hutuntosh who is my colleague. How many
27:19of you know who Hatutun Tosh is? Okay.
27:22Have you met her? But you've seen her
27:24online, right? Well, she was my
27:26colleague for many years. I did um uh
27:28she was studying under me at OKA Ori
27:31Center for Christian Apologetics back in
27:332012. And she uh thought I was arrogant,
27:36which I come across as. And so she
27:38decided that she wasn't going to listen
27:39to me. But I did say that I every Sunday
27:41I go to a place called Speaker's Corner.
27:43It's only an hour away and why don't you
27:44go? Anybody come on down? Let's get up
27:46on a ladder and I'd love to try you guys
27:48out or you gals out. And so she came
27:50down and never stopped coming. She fell
27:53in love with Speaker's Corner. One of
27:55the few in the world who can do what she
27:57does. And she has brought a thousand
28:00Muslims to Jesus Christ in just three
28:02years all on her own. All the Muslims
28:06are in Britain and they're all around
28:07London. And she goes into mosque after
28:10mosque all by herself. No one invites
28:13her. She doesn't make any relationship.
28:15There's no friendship evangelism. She
28:17doesn't do a word of evangelism. That
28:19kind of evangelism. She just carries a
28:21bag much like the one I have here, that
28:22black bag with the wheels on it with 26
28:25different Qurans. Yeah, that's right. 26
28:29different Qurans. She's now up to 37.
28:33Every one of them are Arabic.
28:36They're all over a thousand years old.
28:38Not her copies, obviously. They all are
28:42from the 8th to 9th century and no two
28:45are alike. Did you hear me? No two are
28:48alike. She's the first one to discover
28:50this. I found it.
28:52We're going to introduce that tomorrow
28:53when we get to the Quran.
28:56But she is an amazing woman because she
28:58gets beat up. She's had her ribs broken.
29:01She's had her feet broken. She's been
29:03hung almost died.
29:06She's had she's been knifed with a knife
29:08and stabbed with a knife. It's all on
29:10film. You can see it.
29:13And then finally they tried to kill her
29:14with the gun a year ago. This is in
29:17London. I'm not talking about Turkey
29:18where she's from. This is in London.
29:20This has all happened.
29:23And she has now disappeared.
29:25We've lost track of her for the last 6
29:27months.
29:29Well, I lie. We've just found out that
29:31she's alive and she's fine.
29:34She called me at about 3 weeks ago. So,
29:36we now know she's okay. But pray for
29:39Hatutun Tosh. Hutton and I go back for
29:41many years and she would get on the
29:42ladder with me and she would be on one
29:43ladder. I'd be here and uh she only
29:47sleeps three nights a week. The other
29:49night she's up all night studying,
29:51studying, studying, studying. This 5'2
29:54Turkish girl and she uh had been I've
29:58been in this is about two in fact it was
29:59right after the ELF. The last time I was
30:01at ELF, I was here in ELF and I had gone
30:04back to London and she whenever I go
30:06through London, she and I get back on
30:07the ladder again and we go at it and we
30:08whatever is new, whatever we're coming,
30:10whatever we're studying, we field test.
30:12Speakers corner is the best laboratory
30:14in the world to field test your material
30:16because you get peer-reviewed almost
30:17instantly and you see what works, what
30:20doesn't work. And you there's no other
30:21place on earth you can do that because
30:22it's the only place where there are no
30:24guns.
30:25I mean that. And America, for those of
30:27you who are American, I can't do this.
30:29They tried. We tried it at Washington
30:30Square, people got killed. We tried it
30:32at Santa Monica and people got killed.
30:34People who get upset in America pull out
30:36their guns and shoot you. You don't have
30:37guns in England, so you can get away
30:39with this. At the most, they could just
30:40beat you up, which is fine. You should
30:42survive. And so I was down there in 2019
30:45after. And she says, "Jay, there's a
30:47real problem because in the British li
30:49British museum, they have the coins,
30:51they have these Islamic coins there, and
30:53they have the shahada with Muhammad.
30:57They are attributing it to. you told me
30:59that this has nothing to do with Muya. I
31:02said that's interesting. This is a gold
31:04solid and there it was in the British
31:05Museum attributing it to Muya when this
31:08is something that was introduced by
31:10Abdul Malik 30 years later. So they had
31:12misappropriated the date which you know
31:14a museum can do. She says could you go
31:16back to the states hunt it up and make
31:18sure that that I'm correct. And I said
31:20you are correct. I don't even have to
31:21hunt it up. So I went back and I decide
31:23both Hutton and I do YouTube um we do
31:26YouTube videos. I've been doing YouTube
31:28videos since 2006.
31:31YouTube only was invented in 2005. So
31:33I've been doing almost as long as
31:34YouTube is going. So for 17 years we put
31:37videos of always pmic always pmics using
31:39in whatever is the newest material. So I
31:42started putting these videos up in 2020
31:44right before co hit and I started asking
31:48these questions. I said listen if the
31:49British Museum can get this wrong how
31:52are the rest of us what's going to
31:53happen to the rest of us? We've you've
31:55got to get your dates right. You've got
31:57to be able to follow the coins and
31:59you've got to use the coins and then
32:00find out what they're saying. Well, I
32:02didn't know this cuz I was not a
32:03numismatis and I'm not very much into
32:05coins. But suddenly I started getting
32:07the great thing about YouTube is you
32:08have all the comments at the bottom and
32:10you can just read the comments. And as I
32:12was reading the comments, I noticed that
32:13these numismatists who are experts were
32:16responding. It says, "You're right.
32:17They're correct. You got it correct, but
32:19we don't you we don't understand what's
32:21happening because these coins make no
32:23sense. And I said, 'What do you mean
32:25they don't make any sense? They said,
32:26'Well, read the Arabic. I said, 'You can
32:27read it better than I can. What are the
32:28problem? Tell me what's going on. And
32:30they said, 'It doesn't fit the standard
32:32Islamic. It doesn't fit the Islamic
32:34traditions.
32:36It doesn't. I said, well, then just read
32:39to me what they are. So, this is in
32:412020. We started putting these coins of
32:43coin after coin. And a guy named Odin La
32:45Fontaine from France was the one that I
32:47started really engaging with. He'd been
32:49working on this for 25 years. And he is
32:51the one that has really helped me the
32:52most. Now, I've never met him. We've
32:54only been online to each other and we've
32:56only been on YouTube together. In two
32:58weeks, I'm going to meet him for the
32:59first time in London. And for we're
33:01bringing all the best paces in the world
33:03to London in two weeks. You're not to
33:06tell the Muslims that. All right?
33:07Because we're all going to be in one
33:08venue for three days. David Wood's going
33:10to be there. Anthony Rogers is going to
33:12be there. I'm going to be there. Aladds
33:16in Islamic polyics were gonna get
33:18together. Odin Loantine's going to be
33:20there. Mel's going to be there from
33:22Ireland and Dr. Robert Kerr from
33:24Germany. So, we're bringing lots of the
33:26best minds together and we're just going
33:28to start hammering out the three
33:30different forms of pymics and then we're
33:31all going to go to speaker's corner on
33:32the 9th of June and take down the
33:34Muslims and film everything. So, you'll
33:36see everything that happens. So, here
33:38she was going with these coins and I
33:40started realizing that I've got to shift
33:42gears and start just really engaging
33:44with this historical material. So, that
33:46started in 2020. Then of course COVID
33:49hit and when CO hit everybody was at
33:52home watching our videos and so our
33:54videos suddenly just skyrocketed as far
33:56as the number of people watching and
33:59what we noticed that there were four
34:00areas that we were trying to get at the
34:02four areas that we're going to do this
34:04two days are first of all the problem of
34:07sources. This is the thing that we
34:08noticed that many people had not heard
34:09about or didn't understand the
34:12difficulty of sources. Then we went to
34:14and we started looking at Mecca. And
34:17Mecca is fascinating because as you're
34:20going to find out, it's the one place
34:22that does exist today and still exist
34:24today that we can therefore research
34:26because it is still there.
34:29And when then of course Muhammad
34:31himself, the problem with Muhammad is he
34:34is it is difficult to engage about
34:36Muhammad because Muslims have a visceral
34:38attachment to Muhammad. You can confront
34:41the Quran, they're not going to say too
34:43much. You can confront Allah, they're
34:44not going to say too much. Once you
34:46confront Muhammad, it's like turning on
34:48a switch on inside and they just go
34:49visceral. They get emotive. So, you have
34:52to be very careful when you confront
34:53Muhammad. So, I'm going to be very
34:55careful when we get to this this period,
34:57but you're going to notice I'm not going
34:58to confront Muhammad. I'm not going to
34:59say dillisly about Muhammad. I don't
35:00care what about him because I don't even
35:02think he existed.
35:05But I have to prove that. And then we
35:07found out that the best material to use
35:09is this. So I'm in our two days I'm
35:12going to save it to last. By far the
35:14best and the easiest material to use is
35:16confronting the Quran. So these are the
35:18four areas we're going to investigate
35:21and we're going to start then with the
35:22problem of sources. If the sources are
35:25wrong, everything gets crashing down.
35:28Oops, I forgot. I do need to introduce
35:30the people whose research I'm using.
35:33These are the people who have gone ahead
35:34of me. These are the people who are
35:36actually have the work that we're doing
35:37on whose shoulders we stand. Now the
35:40revisionist by definition means the
35:42theory of or practice of revising one's
35:44attitude to a previously accepted
35:47situation or point of view. Those who
35:49have gone ahead are the revisionists who
35:51have actually found that there's a
35:52problem with the existing structure and
35:54therefore you revise it depending on
35:56what history tells you. So they question
35:59the standard Islamic narrative. We call
36:01it the standard Islamic narrative
36:02because of a certain cleric named Dr.
36:05Yasar Gadi who actually introduced that
36:07in 2020 when he was doing a interview
36:10and I'll talk more about that tomorrow
36:12and he was the one that admitted that
36:13the standard narrative has holes in it.
36:16The standard Islamic narrative has holes
36:18in it. So we jumped on it and I took it
36:20and we said that's great. Let's just
36:22talk about the standard Islamic
36:23narrative. S I N. We all know that sin
36:26has holes in it. So what we're going to
36:27do is take and we're going to shut down
36:29those standard Islamic narrative. But we
36:31have to look and see of those who've
36:33gone ahead. So who are they exactly?
36:36Well, the probably the ones who have
36:37been the foremost the ones who started
36:39the whole ball going are the Germans.
36:41And you need to start with Dr. David
36:43Hinrich Mueller. He was an Austrian
36:45orientalist. He was a semitist and a
36:47linguist and literary theorist. And he
36:49was the one that conjected that there
36:51was a hidden verse structure in the
36:52Quran that suggests therefore it has
36:55been borrowed. Dr. Ignaz Goldzir
36:58suggested that the hadith that's the the
37:00the sayings of Muhammad reflected legal
37:02and doctrinal controversies of two
37:04centuries after the death of Muhammad
37:06not during the time of Muhammad.
37:09He believed strong that the Islamic laws
37:11its origins to Roman law but in opinion
37:13of Patricia Kuron his arguments here
37:15were uncharacteristically weak. And then
37:17of course Dr. Thoddor Nolki who probably
37:20you all know he was the noted German
37:22historian and linguist who read the and
37:24translated Arabic Persian and Syriak
37:26literature and that's why he's done us
37:28such a great favor. He is the one that
37:30that translated alabar tarik which would
37:33be the the taric would be the histories
37:35of all mankind started in German and now
37:38it's been into English. Dr. And Aroof
37:41von Kharnak, Baltic German Lutheran
37:43theologian, prominent church historian.
37:45He was the one that actually was the
37:47first to suggest that maybe much of the
37:49structure of the Quran came out of
37:51Judeo-Christian documents. But he was
37:54doing that way back in the last century,
37:56way before anybody else had suggested
37:57that. Christiannik, I don't know how to
38:01pronounce that last name. If anybody
38:02knows uh your German, could you
38:05pronounce it for me?
38:06I have no idea because I I'm desecrating
38:08whatever I'm going to do. He's a Dutch
38:10orientalist, Arabus and semitist, one of
38:13the founders of the modern Islamic
38:15studies and has done an amazing job on
38:17the ling linguistic side of thing. And
38:18then of course Alons Minga Mingana who's
38:21uh who is the one that has been a Syriak
38:23scholar. His collection is there in
38:26Birmingham. And of course, it was his
38:28collection where the Birmingham folios
38:30were followed. But he was the one that
38:32speculated that the Quran contained
38:33Aramaic words and phrases, but didn't go
38:35any further than that. If he'd only gone
38:36a little bit further and scratched a
38:38little bit deeper, he would have
38:39probably come to the same conclusions
38:41that Dr. Luxmbourg came to. Other ones
38:44like Arthur Jeffrey out of Australia.
38:46Now, he is the one that has probably
38:48done the best work on looking at and
38:50unpacking the hadith and showing what
38:52the hadith say about how the Quran was
38:54put together. Uh he is the one that's
38:55found the foreign words that many of
38:58them borrowed from other sources. And he
38:59is the one that has been able to find
39:01that there were 15,000 differences just
39:03between the four metropolitan cotices of
39:06Zidabit and uh Abu Abu Abu Ibn Kab and
39:11also Ib Masud and Ib Musa. Joseph's
39:14shock came a little bit later. uh and he
39:16was a German scholar that confronted the
39:19Islamic laws, the four schools of
39:21Islamic law and showed that almost all
39:23of them were written much much too late
39:25to be authoritative and then my good
39:27friend Guling who I know personally
39:30German theologian no longer living but
39:31we're going to talk more about Galoon
39:33tomorrow so I won't say too much more
39:34about him because he's done an amazing
39:36job more recently the ones here in
39:39Britain like John Wanssboro he's
39:41actually an American but he started the
39:44whole revisionist
39:46group camp in Britain at the school of
39:48war and African studies and he is the
39:51one that was the first to go back and
39:54look and see where the linguistic
39:55analysis by unpacking the linguistic
39:57parts of the Quran he was able to show
39:59that much of these did not exist at the
40:01time Muhammad they could only have been
40:03introduced at a later date in fact 100
40:06to 200 years later and his two books uh
40:10on that chronic studies and sector and
40:12meu are probably some of the most
40:16um foundational works on just that he
40:20that he wrote in 1977 because he wrote
40:23those two books he got a death threat
40:25and had to leave
40:27London moved to Paris and stopped doing
40:29any Islamic work out of because of the
40:31death threat.
40:34Dr. Yehuda Devil, who is a Middle
40:36Eastern archaeologist, uh his book
40:38Crossroads to Islam, get it if you don't
40:40have it. The origins of the Arab
40:41religion in the Arab state, he's been
40:44really good on looking at the earliest
40:45inscriptions and unpacking the
40:47inscriptions for us so that we can
40:48understand them so we can know where
40:50they're going and what they're saying.
40:52Dr. Norman Calder, I don't know as well.
40:54He's a British historian linguist. He he
40:57did an awful lot of work on looking on
40:58Islamic law along like what what Eric
41:01Shock was doing about a century earlier.
41:03And then of course my favorite scholar
41:05is Dr. Patricia Corona. Uh she actually
41:08was my second supervisor for a while on
41:10my doctorate and I got to know her well
41:12and I I've never seen a more tenacious
41:14woman nor a more brilliant person than
41:17her. Her mind was just enormously uh
41:20able and she was able to write so many
41:23books. Basically has pushed the envelope
41:26back on mostly on the origins argument.
41:29this argument that we're talking about.
41:31Her book on Hagarism has been vilified
41:34unfortunately because she made a mistake
41:35there and she admits it. She did. Uh but
41:38because of that they've just basically
41:40thrown the whole book out the window
41:41without looking at the footnotes. But
41:43Meccan Trade, if you're going to buy one
41:44book or get one book mechanise of Islam,
41:47if you don't have it, I have it in PDF.
41:50You can get it from me before you leave.
41:52In fact, I have a lot of these books in
41:53PDF. You can have them because they're
41:55no longer in print. So we're allowed to
41:56give them away.
41:59Dr. Andrew Ripid was probably the best
42:01one who actually went back to the
42:02historical critique looking at the
42:04formative years from the seventh and 8th
42:06century and then put it together in a
42:08layman's terminology so we can
42:09understand it. So if you have a chance
42:12Muslims the religious beliefs and
42:13practices though it was written in 1990
42:15it's still relevant for today. And then
42:18my professor Dr. Gerald Hotting has done
42:20a great job of looking at the first the
42:22first century of Islam and showing from
42:25a historical standpoint there's an
42:27enormous amount of problems with it. Dr.
42:29Robert Hland is the first one to
42:31actually take all the extra Quranic
42:33material, extra Islamic material, all
42:36the writings that are happening in the
42:37seventh and 8th century and distilling
42:39them down into one place to show you
42:41what the world outside of Islam was
42:43saying about these supposed Muslims.
42:46So his book on seeing Islam as other
42:49side has become a classic. Be careful.
42:52Be careful. He does translate it because
42:55he reads and writes 18 languages. The
42:57problem is he doesn't translate of as
42:59they are. So whenever you see Muhammad,
43:02whenever you see the word mima mimal, he
43:05pronounces it Muhammad when it doesn't
43:08say that at all. How could you have mima
43:11mimdal saint Muhammad when there was no
43:12vowels in the seventh century to make
43:14that distinction? So he does make
43:17mistakes every once in a while but
43:18that's lot of maybe to political
43:20pressure and uh Dr. Steven Shoemaker I
43:23don't know I can't say enough about this
43:24guy this guy is the first one to have
43:27taken everything that the scholars have
43:29been saying and put pre put put it into
43:31one volume and so his book that just
43:33came out two years ago creating the
43:35Quran a historical critical study uh Dr.
43:38um Alfati and myself unpacked. We did uh
43:4162 videos series just on his book. But
43:45get that book. It is a mind tr uh a mind
43:50of information and everything he does he
43:53quotes other scholars. Well, he does a
43:55huge job for us by putting it into one
43:58toone. He's from Oregon University in
43:59the United States. The German
44:01revisionist scholars mostly of the Quran
44:03in its beginning. And these are the ones
44:05who are in Germany and they're all part
44:07of the INA group. Uh that's Vulkarpop
44:09who is done the best work on the coins
44:11for us. Dr. Marker Gross who looks at
44:14the emergence of Islam. Dr. Robert Kerr,
44:16a very good friend of mine. In fact,
44:17he's coming to our conference in two
44:19weeks and I'm having doing a keynote
44:21speak on just all these scholars. Dr.
44:24Carl Hines Olic, he does he's done an
44:26amazing work on the SA manuscript along
44:28with Dr. Garin and I should really have
44:30his wife up there, Dr. Elizabeth print
44:32out of they're all out of Sarland
44:33University in Sbrook and in western
44:35Germany and they are the only ones that
44:37can read the the original manuscripts
44:39because there's no dots or vowels in
44:41them. No Arab can read them but they can
44:43read them and so that's why they're so
44:45they're such a treasure trove for us. Uh
44:47same with Dr. Johannes Thomas. Dr.
44:49Genevie Goilo is actually from France
44:52though she does she does most of her
44:54work in Germany now. And Dr. Masen
44:56Groski on Arab and Aramasia. Dr.
44:59Christoph Luxenberg though his that's
45:01not his real name. He's our the Arabic
45:03scholar in this whole group and he is
45:05actually Lebanese though he's does all
45:08his work in German. So these are the
45:09German revisionists and they're every
45:11one of them have cherished in
45:13universities. They have to be careful
45:15what they say and so what much of what
45:17they do they're not making public
45:21but they're giving us and they're
45:22feeding us the material so we can go
45:24public with it. Isn't it great? So lots
45:26of the stuff that I'll be introducing in
45:28the next few days really come from these
45:29guys and these gals. They're not going
45:32to say what I'm going to say, but they
45:34did the research. They have the
45:35languages. They are the ones that have
45:37the manuscripts. They are the ones that
45:38are reading them. They are the ones that
45:40are coming to conclusion. Our job then
45:42is to communicate so the whole world can
45:43see it. All right. Do you see the
45:45difference? We're missionaries. Yes, I'm
45:48an academic, but I'm an academic in a
45:50Christian institution. Thank God. Ver
45:52Veritas International University, the
45:54Calvary Chapel Seminary. So these are
45:57the ones that are doing the groundwork
45:59for us right now and they're amazing
46:01minds every one of them. I'll be getting
46:04into the Cyro Aramaic and then Iben
46:06Modak has has probably done one of the
46:08best job of taking and disseminating
46:09this this very difficult material and
46:12putting it into layman's terminology so
46:13the rest of us can read it. Uh and he's
46:16from the Indian subcontinent.
46:18Robert Spencer and I go back many years
46:20and we've worked an awful lot together.
46:22Robert Spencer is another populist who
46:24takes material that's hard for people to
46:25understand and popularizes it so that
46:28everybody can understand.
46:30But he cannot leave United States. He
46:32can't come to Britain. He can't come
46:34here. They won't. No country will allow
46:36him in because he's been so explosive in
46:38his books. He has so many books on that.
46:42In fact, did Muhammad exist is his book.
46:44He was the first to actually publish
46:45that. did Muhammad exist in 2012
46:49and we were working together online and
46:51I as I looked at it I said you know
46:54Robert you're about two years behind
46:56you're not you've not kept up with I'm
46:58sorry not two year you're 12 years
46:59behind this is back in 2020 I said why
47:02don't you go and run down what the coins
47:04are saying why isn't you going and keep
47:06up with the newest material on the Quran
47:07he says well where is it I said well
47:09we've got it why don't you use it so I
47:11asked him to rewrite it so he wrote
47:12rewrote it again in 2021 and sent me the
47:16PDF of the copy before just that he had
47:19just sent to the publisher and I read it
47:21and I I got on the phone to him. I said,
47:23"Robert, you're still about six months
47:25behind." He said, "Well, I've already
47:27given it to the publisher." So, I he
47:28said, "Would you put a forward?" So, I
47:30wrote the forward for him in his book
47:31just to explain that this is this is the
47:33problem. Even what I'm going to tell you
47:35in the next two days, in one year, I'm
47:37going to tell you something different.
47:39It's not going to contradict it, but
47:40it's going to embellish it. We're just
47:42moving ahead. In fact, I'm going to tell
47:44you two things in the next two days that
47:46we've only learned in the last two
47:47months.
47:49That's how exciting this is. It just
47:52gets better and better and better. But
47:54the problem is once you publish it,
47:57what happens? You've got to republish
47:59it. So, I'm going to ask him now to redo
48:01another copy for 2025, then 2027. So,
48:04I'm suggesting every two years just send
48:06out a new copy with all the newest
48:08discoveries. We have so many new
48:11discoveries. I have seven men who are
48:12doing the research for me. Now, I can't
48:14give you all their names. I'm not
48:16permitted to, but they are the ones who
48:18actually know the languages. They're the
48:19ones who are actually doing the hard
48:20material. My job is just to communicate
48:23it to the rest of the world. And that's
48:24your job as well to communicate what we
48:26now know. But we have to give credit to
48:29these guys and gals who are doing that.
48:30Peter Townson, I've never met him
48:31before. I like what he's doing. I don't
48:33agree with everything he said about
48:35Mecca. He's from Australia and I'd love
48:37to get to know him and can take him out
48:38for dinner. And then the new
48:40revisionist, those of us, these are the
48:42ones who are working with me
48:43particularly Dr. Bernie Powers out of
48:46Melbourne School of Theology. He does an
48:48awful lot of debates. He is the one
48:49who's done an awful lot of work on the
48:51kat. You don't know what I'm talking
48:52about. We're going to talk about that
48:54tomorrow. Dr. Dan Brewbaker is a real
48:57good friend of mine. We've been together
48:58for about maybe 15 years. And he is the
49:00one that probably has done more damage
49:02to the Quran just by looking at the
49:04variance, the manuscript variants that
49:06we're going to talk about tomorrow. and
49:08he's found over 4,000 of these
49:10manuscript bears. That's a terrible
49:11picture of why they put that one up
49:13there. I'll have to change that. And
49:15then there's Hatun Tash, my colleague,
49:17who is has done an amazing job on the
49:20Kat and the Aku. We'll talk more about
49:22her tomorrow. Pat Andrews, I can't show
49:24you his pictures. I'm not permitted to,
49:26and that's not his name. But of all the
49:27research, he does by far the most
49:30research for me. This man has an idetic
49:32memory. That means anything he reads, he
49:34memorizes. He has he knows even the page
49:36number. He can he has pictures of
49:38everything he reads. He knows where the
49:40paragraphs come. There's I mean you just
49:43cannot debate this guy. He has every
49:45word. He knows all the dates. The guy is
49:48prodigious. And boy, I'm so glad he's on
49:49our side. So that's Dr. Pat Andrews.
49:52He's we're going to be together in two
49:53weeks as well in the in London. And then
49:56Mel, good old Mel Cormackin. Mel is such
49:58a an enjoyment because he is a Catholic
50:01he's a Catholic one of the a Catholic
50:02brother of mine who just cannot stop
50:06producing new material, finding
50:08everything and trying to put it all
50:09together. So I've been bringing him on
50:11board with the word Makmmet uh in the
50:13last two three weeks uh and he's just
50:16spent he'll be with us in London as
50:17well. Murad is a I can't I'm not
50:20permitted to tell you where he's from. I
50:22can't even tell you what background he
50:24is, but he is an Arabus and a Syriak
50:26scholar. Uh, and I not permitted to show
50:29you his picture.
50:31Dan Gibson is a Canadian who's done a
50:33lot of work on the kibla. We're not
50:35going to do too much on the kibla
50:36tomorrow. We're just going to introduce
50:37it and show you what we now know about
50:39the direction of prayer for all the
50:41mosques. But he is by far been way ahead
50:43of the rest of the game because he's the
50:45only one that has actually gone to the
50:46mosques, every mosque personally, and
50:48looked at them. If you're going to be an
50:50expert on the kiblas, you should look go
50:51to the mosque. Don't you think you
50:53should actually physically go there?
50:54Well, he's the first to do so. And it
50:56took him 25 years to do so. Odin
50:59Laafontaine, the smoking priest from
51:02Paris. Uh he's a Catholic priest who has
51:05been working for 25 years on the on the
51:08the the coins. We're going to be get her
51:10in London in two weeks. And so it's just
51:12going to be actually two weeks. I'm just
51:13it's actually next week. So not two
51:15weeks.
51:18Thomas Alexander is out of Germany and
51:20he has been part of the Inado group and
51:22has been really exciting to have him
51:24though he's not an expert in this area.
51:26What he does is he disseminates it and
51:27he has a clinical mind like many Germans
51:30have and is able to introduce it to us
51:32in English. And then Paul Ellis is the
51:34one that has done by far the best work.
51:36He's out of London. Uh he does the best
51:38work on what we call the Jerusalem uh
51:40the Jerusalem paradigm. He'll be with us
51:42in two weeks as well. Joe the red
51:45Judaism. I'm not Oh, I misspelled that.
51:47that should say Judaism uh read Judaism.
51:50He is from Israel uh and uh he is a Jew
51:54uh by you can tell by his name has a
51:57clinical mind is uh has been really
51:59helpful on understanding what's
52:01happening between the seventh and 8th
52:02century coming out of Jewish sources.
52:04And then Alfi is my one of my best
52:07friends. Alfi is a Saudi Arabian. He is
52:09a who used to be a Salafi uh wanted to
52:12join al Qaeda. He now fell in love with
52:14Jesus, has left Saudi Arabia, is
52:16finishing up his doctorate on the sauna
52:18manuscript, is already the world's
52:20leading authority on the sauna
52:21manuscript and uh he and I do an awful
52:24lot of episodes together in his studio.
52:26And then Sarah Lumpar, I was hoping
52:28she'd come to this conference so you can
52:30meet her personally. She has been done
52:32by far the best work on Islamic slavery
52:34and has way ahead of the games on boy,
52:36she has come up with some enormous uh
52:39historical material. So here's the
52:41question. Why the historical critique of
52:44Islam's origin? Why in the world are we
52:46doing this? What's the purpose of it?
52:48When I um did this uh talk at Calvary
52:52Chapel Chino Hills in September
52:56because it was so short and Doc Jackbs
52:59realized it was too short and too fast.
53:02He called me up and he says, "Listen, I
53:04understand you're in Africa at the
53:05moment, but when you come back, could
53:07you come back in November and could you
53:09now do it again, but this time in four
53:11hours, not one hour?"
53:14Well, when Jack Hibbs asked you to do
53:16something, you usually jump. So, I said,
53:17"Okay, in fact, I would love to do it in
53:18four hours." So, I went back in November
53:22and after a 4-hour lecture, I said, "But
53:24I said, I only want people to come who
53:26really want to come. So, I want them to
53:27sign up. I want them to register. I
53:29don't want people just walking off the
53:30street. I want people who were there in
53:32September to return if they really want
53:34to know the material. So we we he said,
53:36"Yes, we'll be in a room like this." And
53:38so they they put it out, the word out,
53:40and a thousand people signed up. Well,
53:41you can't get a thousand people into a
53:43room this size. So we had to open up the
53:45sanctuary. So we opened up the sanctuary
53:47and and that gave me the the big screen
53:50so I could just point to the big
53:51screens. At the end of four hours, I
53:54went and I asked the same question I'm
53:56going to ask you tomorrow. And I asked
53:57them, how many of you of you who were
53:59there? How many of you understood 100%
54:01of what I just said? And about 900 of
54:03them raised their hands about so 90%
54:05raised their hands.
54:07So I asked them, how is it you could
54:09understand since you only see you only
54:10heard it once and now you're hearing a
54:12second time. How is it you understood
54:14what I was saying?
54:17And they said, well, the first thing is
54:18it it doesn't confront the very found it
54:20confronts the very foundations of Islam,
54:22the book of the but it is so easy
54:25because it's so visual.
54:27As you're going to see everything I'm
54:28going to show you, I'm going to be
54:29showing you maps. I'm going to be
54:30showing you timelines. I'm going to be
54:32showing you manuscripts. I I'm not I'm
54:34going to be showing you coins and I'm
54:36going to show you all these things.
54:37Everything I'm going to show you is
54:38visual. Thirdly, it's neutral. Anybody
54:42can use it. You don't have to be a
54:44Christian to use it. You don't have to
54:46be any. You anybody can use it.
54:50It's also very politically correct
54:51because you're not attacking Muhammad,
54:53nor are you attacking the Quran, nor are
54:54you attacking Muslims. Therefore, it's
54:56not hate speech. It is not Islamophobic.
54:59And that is true. Since 2020, when I've
55:02been engaging only in the historical
55:04critique, I have not got a I have not
55:06had one strike on YouTube. I would get
55:09strikes all the time, but not any
55:10longer. And the reason why is I'm not
55:13attacking Muhammad. I'm not attacking
55:14Muslims. I'm not talking about
55:15Muhammad's misogyny or his violence. I
55:18don't need to. What a waste of time.
55:21I'm asking a much deeper question. Did
55:24he exist?
55:26That's much deeper and much more
55:28difficult to answer. But not HP speak at
55:31all. And of course, this is what made me
55:33laugh. The greatest thing they thought
55:35about it is they didn't have to know a
55:36word of Arabic. Everything I'm going to
55:38show you, you don't have to know a word
55:40of Arabic. I'm going to show you some
55:41Arabic words, but I'm going to show you
55:43what to look at. I'm going to show what
55:45dot to look like, whether it's there or
55:47not there, whether it's above the word
55:48or below the word. It's going to be as
55:50visual. You don't even have to know the
55:51word you're looking at, but I'm going to
55:53translate it for you. You can see how it
55:54changes depending on where the dot is.
55:56That's about as far as I'm going to go
55:57with the Arabic. Okay,
56:00that's what really makes Americans
56:02happy. They do not like Arabic.
56:04Well, not just Americans. I found out I
56:07was just in Prague last night, two
56:08nights ago, and in Prague, they didn't
56:10like Arabic either. So, they love the
56:12fact that they didn't have to know any
56:13Arabic. And the best thing, and this is
56:15what they all said, the best thing is
56:18though everything we're going to talk
56:20about in the next two days shuts down
56:22the book, shuts down the man, and shuts
56:24down the place. We're the only ones that
56:27have a better book, a better man, and a
56:28better place to bring him home to.
56:30That's the beauty of this
56:33like with like if you were going to and
56:35I'm going to do that. I'm going to do
56:36like with like and I'm going to show how
56:37much better our manuscripts are, how
56:39much better our our not only the
56:42manuscripts but also the historical
56:44evidence that we have and how much
56:46better our place is. So why are we doing
56:49this? Well, you know the Robert Frost,
56:52I'm not going to go through the whole
56:53poem, but if you've heard the poem, it's
56:55he goes into the woods and he sees two
56:58he sees two paths.
57:00One path going off to the right and
57:01another path going off to the left. He's
57:03come to a fork. He wants to know which
57:05way he should go. Now, this one going
57:07off to the right, it was well trodden.
57:09There were no weeds. You can tell it had
57:11been very heavily used. But this one off
57:13here, it was full of weeds. No one had
57:16gone this way. So, he had to make a
57:18decision.
57:20I shall be telling this with a sigh
57:23somewhere ages and ages. Two roads
57:26diverge in the wood. And I I took the
57:29one less traveled by, and that has made
57:31all the difference. We're going to go
57:33down stuff you've never heard before.
57:35This is the first time you're going to
57:36hear it from most of you. Some of you
57:37may have heard bits and pieces it. Some
57:39of you won't have heard everything of
57:40it. But we're going to go down the less
57:42traveled world. We're not going to go
57:44down the standard Islamic narrative.
57:45We're going to go right against it.
57:47We're going to ask the historical
57:48questions. This is called the external
57:50pmics. Three forms of pmics that we use
57:53internally. That's looking at the Quran
57:54as it is and confronting it from within.
57:57Looking at the contradictions, looking
57:58at all the misogyny, looking at all the
58:00irrelevancy of the Quran itself. That's
58:03called internal palemics. Then you have
58:04the cultural palemics, looking at Islam
58:06as it is today and seeing how irrelevant
58:08it is or the problems it has with all of
58:10its different structures. And then you
58:12have the external pmics. And that's what
58:14I do. External pommics is throwing away
58:16the Quran, not even looking at the
58:18Quran, not even looking at Muhammad,
58:19asking a much deeper question. Did these
58:22books even exist? By doing that, you're
58:23looking at what history says. That's the
58:25external critique. And that's the road
58:27we're going to go down. We chose the
58:29road less travel by. And in time you
58:31will see why. So the claims that the
58:34standard Islamic narrative gives the
58:36standard Islamic narrative means the
58:37Islamic traditions for radicals or
58:40nominals. Every Muslim will make these
58:42claims whether they are over here on the
58:45right the radicals or the nominals in
58:46the middle or the liberals on the left.
58:48Now let me define what I mean by that. A
58:50radical Muslim is just like a radical
58:53number. A radical number means a root
58:54number. So you go back to the root. So a
58:57radical Muslim will go back to the Quran
58:59and go back to Muhammad. A radical
59:01Muslim was defined by Iben Ta in the
59:031300s to be a good Muslim, read the
59:06Quran, follow Muhammad. Read the book,
59:07follow the man. Read the book, follow
59:09the man. So a radical Muslim reads the
59:11book, understands it in Arabic and then
59:13applies it in his own life. Read the
59:16book, follow the man. Many people have
59:19said, "When is Islam going to have its
59:20reformation?" Well, stop and think. 200
59:22years later, another man, a German this
59:24time, Martin Luther, said much the same
59:26thing, did he not? To be a good
59:28Christian, read the book, solos
59:31scripture, and follow Jesus Christ. Read
59:33the book and follow the man. Read the
59:34book and follow the man. The book of the
59:36man. We call that a reformation. And I'm
59:40telling Muslims, they had their
59:41reformation 200 years before us.
59:45So, a radical Muslim on the right, they
59:48will follow the book. They will read the
59:49book. And that's why I like to engage
59:50with them much better because they are
59:52the ones who understand the book and I
59:54know exactly I have something in common
59:55with them. Nominals in the middle are
59:58those who usually come to the west. They
1:00:00come to America. They come to Britain.
1:00:02They come to Europe and they come
1:00:04basically for a better life. They want
1:00:07to have a job. They want to have an
1:00:09education. Many of them come here with
1:00:12that intent. Most of them have never
1:00:14read the book. They have never opened
1:00:15the Quran. They have maybe memorized a
1:00:17few chapters. But they only know about
1:00:19the the about the only thing they know
1:00:20would be the five pillars. That's about
1:00:23it. The five practices. That's about it.
1:00:27Don't ask them to understand the book
1:00:28because they have never read it. The
1:00:30radicals have, but not the nominals.
1:00:33The liberals over here on the left,
1:00:36those are the guys and gals who have
1:00:39read the book and have rejected it. And
1:00:41they are the ones who are now in our
1:00:43universities. You see them all over
1:00:44Britain. You see them in London. And
1:00:46they are the ones who are on our
1:00:47television shows and they are the ones
1:00:49who are being basically used by the
1:00:51media because they are the ones who are
1:00:54sanitizing Islam and making it palatable
1:00:56for the European mind.
1:00:59So I don't waste much time with these
1:01:00because these are a very small group.
1:01:03The biggest group are in the middle.
1:01:06when you had that when you had 911 in
1:01:082001 they did a survey in 2002 a year
1:01:11later and they wanted to tell find out
1:01:13how many people supported sorry this is
1:01:15in 2001 this is in October the month
1:01:17later they wanted to find out how many
1:01:18people supported al Qaeda who'd be a
1:01:20radical group here because they followed
1:01:22the book exactly everything they do
1:01:24everything ISIS did you can follow it in
1:01:26the you can find it everything they did
1:01:27you can find in the Quran I can give you
1:01:29verse after verse right now what they
1:01:31did so they wanted to find out how many
1:01:33Muslims in Britain followed this group
1:01:35over here. It was about 15%. 15%.
1:01:39They wanted to find out how many were in
1:01:41this group right here. These are the
1:01:42nominal ones who were green grocerers.
1:01:44They're the ones that you meet. They're
1:01:45the ones who are in school with you.
1:01:46They're the ones that probably many of
1:01:48you have friends with. They're in this
1:01:50group. They really didn't know the
1:01:51Quran. They call themselves Muslims.
1:01:53They go to the festivals and they may go
1:01:55to the mosque maybe once in a month, but
1:01:57they are not really that that religious.
1:02:00And that was about 70% of all Muslims in
1:02:02Britain. And the last were 15% over here
1:02:05who had already given up Islam, one
1:02:07nothing new and that's why they were in
1:02:08Britain to get away from Islam.
1:02:11A year later they wanted to do a another
1:02:13survey to find out what if there
1:02:15anything had changed. And this group
1:02:17over here which had only been 15% had
1:02:19grown to 25%. In just one year taking
1:02:23from all from this middle group still
1:02:2415% over here. Now this one was not 70
1:02:28but 60%.
1:02:30In 2006 they did a third survey and this
1:02:33was done by QNES and also the Guardian
1:02:35newspaper and they found that this group
1:02:36over here that had been first 15 then
1:02:40had been uh 25% had now grown to 43%.
1:02:46Almost half of all Muslims had moved to
1:02:48the radical group within just 5 years.
1:02:50And when asked why is it what moved them
1:02:53what changed them was they started
1:02:55reading the standard Islamic narrative.
1:02:56They started going back to the Islamic
1:02:58tradition. They started going back to
1:02:59find out why these men and these women
1:03:01were flying those planes into that
1:03:03building. Why is it that they this group
1:03:06that called al Qaeda which means the
1:03:08foundation why why is it they were doing
1:03:10what they were doing and they found it.
1:03:11It was in the Quran itself. The more
1:03:13they read the book, the more they came
1:03:14across these verses. Slay the unbeliever
1:03:17wherever you find them. That's in
1:03:18chapter 9:5. Make war on the people of
1:03:21the book until they pay the Jiza tax.
1:03:22That's chapter 9 29. Cut off the heads
1:03:26of the unbeliever. That's in chapter
1:03:2747:4.
1:03:29Cut off the hands of the thieves. That's
1:03:31chapter 5:38. I could go on and on.
1:03:33There's 150 of these verses in the
1:03:35Quran. But they had never read the Quran
1:03:37before. Not in English, not in Udu or
1:03:40Punjabi. This was the first time they
1:03:42had read it. And now they were coming
1:03:43across and realizing this is eternal.
1:03:46This is an eternal book. This is a book
1:03:48that must be obeyed.
1:03:50Not understood, but obeyed. So they're
1:03:53moving off more and more to the right.
1:03:56And then they had to go back to the
1:03:58traditions to find out how they're walk,
1:03:59talk, eat, and drink. Because you can't
1:04:01find much in the Quran about how to
1:04:03walk, talk, eat, and drink. You have to
1:04:04go to the traditions, the Islamic
1:04:06traditions. So this is what they say.
1:04:08The traditions make this claim.
1:04:10Muhammad, they say, was the last and
1:04:12greatest prophet who was born in Mecca
1:04:13in 570 and died in Medina in 632. He is
1:04:17the one that modeled Islam as the
1:04:19paradigm for the world. And he is the
1:04:21one that received the Quran as the final
1:04:22revelation for the world. The Quran, his
1:04:25revelation was sent down only to him
1:04:27between that 22-year period 610 to 632.
1:04:30It is the greatest, the only perfectly
1:04:32preserved and the final revelation. And
1:04:35it it is it is the one that corrects all
1:04:37previous revelations. Therefore, Islam
1:04:40is the final religion based on
1:04:41Muhammad's life and saying, the Sunnah
1:04:43and on the Quran's teaching. So there
1:04:45you have the man, the book, and of
1:04:47course, the religion itself. Conclusion.
1:04:50Thus, Islam is completely dependent on
1:04:52these two things, the Quran and
1:04:54Muhammad. And I'm added a third one, the
1:04:56place as well. You'll see why. So, the
1:04:58book, the man, and the place or
1:05:02since these three areas are foundational
1:05:04to Islam,
1:05:06it is impinging on us to therefore
1:05:08investigate them. But we need to
1:05:11investigate them at the time they all
1:05:13existed. In other words, the seventh
1:05:16century. And in the place they all
1:05:18existed, the Hijaz the Hijaz is that
1:05:20central part of Arabia where Mecca and
1:05:22Medina are situated. So it's over in the
1:05:24the east the western part of Arabia.
1:05:26Central central western Arabia. So let's
1:05:29start by looking at the problem of
1:05:30sources and then move to Mecca.
1:05:34So look at the sources. Where do their
1:05:36sources come from?
1:05:39To do that, let's look at a map. When
1:05:41you look at a map, you will see that
1:05:44this part here, and let's just put up
1:05:45Muhammad himself. When Muhammad died in
1:05:47632, it was this brown part right here
1:05:50that was under their control. Okay? Not
1:05:53very big at all. So there's Mecca
1:05:55Medina. That's in the Hijaz and that's
1:05:57the known as the Hijaz area.
1:06:00When he died in 632, then Abu Bakr came
1:06:02to power. He only lasted two years. Then
1:06:05uh Umar came to power. He lasted 10
1:06:08years. He went from 632 to 64 uh 40
1:06:11sorry 634 to 644
1:06:14he was killed and then Uman came to
1:06:17power and from 644 to 656 he lasted only
1:06:2112 years and then he was killed and then
1:06:22Alifani took over and he only lasted
1:06:24five before he was killed and that's
1:06:26known as the rashidun period which
1:06:28includes the four rightly guided caiffs
1:06:30that includes Abu Bakr Umar Uman and Ali
1:06:34those four so roughly 40 years that they
1:06:37then ruled And that's the orange area.
1:06:39So the borders moved out from that that
1:06:41brown area into the orange area. And
1:06:43they include all the way from
1:06:44Afghanistan in the east all the way to
1:06:46Tripoli in the north, from Turkey in the
1:06:50north, I'm sorry, in the west, Turkey in
1:06:52the north, all the way down to Yemen in
1:06:53the south. Look at that map. Memorize
1:06:56that map because I'm not interested so
1:06:57much in the purple area because that's
1:06:59then the Umiads. When the Umayades came
1:07:01in in 651,
1:07:04they then broadened the uh borders of
1:07:07Islam to include Andalucia, which is now
1:07:09Spain today, in the west, all the way to
1:07:12Kabell, Afghanistan in the east, and
1:07:14Turkey in the north, down to Yemen in
1:07:15the south. So that's the area of the
1:07:17Umaya dynasty. However, forget about the
1:07:21purple area. Let's just deal with the
1:07:23brown and the orange area. Those two
1:07:25areas. Okay? Can you memorize that? Get
1:07:27that in your head? I may have to come
1:07:30back to it so that just to remind you of
1:07:32it. So according to what the Islam tells
1:07:36us, this is the timeline of their in of
1:07:39their emergence. This is their story.
1:07:40This is not my story. This is what they
1:07:43tell us. Muhammad was born in 570. The
1:07:47Quran was revealed in 610 there in the
1:07:50hidd when he was suddenly woken up. He
1:07:52was doing his meditation and there was
1:07:55the angel Gibbrel who told him his means
1:07:59read and his response was ma I cannot
1:08:01read. He could not read or write and so
1:08:03he was squeezed and this happened three
1:08:05times. All three times he says I cannot
1:08:07read and so finally the angel let him
1:08:09go. He went back to uh to Mecca and he
1:08:13told his wife Khadijah. He only had one
1:08:14wife at that time. She was older than
1:08:16him and uh she controlled him. She was
1:08:19in charge of all the trade. And so she
1:08:21had him, she made a she had a test. She
1:08:22had him sit on one knee and asked him,
1:08:24"Was that an angel that was talking to
1:08:25you?" And he said, "Yes, it was." So
1:08:27then she had him sit on the other leg
1:08:28and asked the same question. He had the
1:08:30same response. And then she took off all
1:08:32her clothes, was naked, knowing the
1:08:34angel would not be there to whisper in
1:08:36his ear. She knew that if he answered
1:08:38yes again, that he was telling the
1:08:40truth. That was her test. And then she
1:08:41went to her cousin named Waka Iban
1:08:43Nofal, who was a Neestoran Christian.
1:08:47Isn't that interesting? A neestoran
1:08:49Christian and she asked them truly what
1:08:51he has told me what is going on and he
1:08:54said this is a prophet. So it was a
1:08:56Neestoran Christian that announced that
1:08:58Muhammad was a prophet according to
1:08:59their story. And that happened in 610.
1:09:02In 6:21 he was woken up in the middle of
1:09:04the night by Jibil and told to get on
1:09:07the back of a winged horse called the
1:09:08burak. And he flies up from Mecca all
1:09:11the way to Jerusalem where the Dome of
1:09:13the Rock sits today. That rock that's
1:09:15there. He then ascended the seven
1:09:17heavens and met Allah. And when he was
1:09:19talking to Allah, Allah said that you're
1:09:21to pray 50 times a day. So he decided to
1:09:23go back down. He came to the fifth
1:09:24heaven and he bumped into Moses. Moses,
1:09:27what did he tell you? And he says,
1:09:28"Well, I'm to pray 50 times a day."
1:09:29Moses, "Ah, wait, that's that's way too
1:09:31many. Go back and see if you can get it
1:09:32down." So he bounces back and forth
1:09:35between the seventh and the fifth
1:09:36heaven, getting it from 50 down to 45,
1:09:38down to 30, down to 15, down to 10, down
1:09:40to five prayers. Once he gets it down to
1:09:42five prayers, he sees Moses and he says,
1:09:44"That's enough. Head on back down to
1:09:46earth." So the five prayers that Muslims
1:09:48do today is all because of Moses. And
1:09:50that happens in 6:21 known as the
1:09:52mirage. Once he gets down to Jerusalem,
1:09:55gets back on the winged horse, he flies
1:09:57back on down to Mecca. So that happens
1:09:59in 621 in his life. 6 622 the very next
1:10:04year because of all the persecution he
1:10:06was getting from his revelations there
1:10:08in Mecca. He then moved from Mecca up to
1:10:11Medina called the Hijra, the Exodus with
1:10:13about 80 to 200 of his followers and
1:10:16that began the what we know as the
1:10:19beginning of the Islamic calendar and
1:10:21the beginning of the caliphate. However,
1:10:22some dispute that instead it happened in
1:10:24624. We know that in 6:30 he then walked
1:10:28back to Mecca and took it over without
1:10:30firing a shot. And then two years later
1:10:33he then dies poisoned by one of his
1:10:35wife, his Jewish wife. Now, have any of
1:10:38you heard any other story?
1:10:40I've just barely given you bare
1:10:42skeleton. All right, just to give you
1:10:44the major things in Muhammad's life.
1:10:47Have you heard a different story than
1:10:48this?
1:10:50No, you haven't. This is the only story
1:10:51you've heard, right? Because this is the
1:10:54only story you're going to hear because
1:10:55this is the one that was written by Iban
1:10:57Isam that all of you read today. Any
1:10:59school anywhere only has one narrative
1:11:02and this is it what you're looking at.
1:11:04We know that Abuab Bakr lasted about two
1:11:07years. He was the one that had the first
1:11:10Quran re compiled, the first recession
1:11:12of the Quran compiled between 632 and
1:11:15634. Uh he died peacefully, but the man
1:11:17that followed him only lasted 10 years
1:11:19and he was one that expanded the borders
1:11:21and went all the way from Tripoli over
1:11:23this side all the way to almost
1:11:24Afghanistan on this side and from Turkey
1:11:26up in the north to to Yemen in the in
1:11:29Oman in the south. So that's the man who
1:11:32did the most of the expansion of the
1:11:33caliphate. He was then replaced after he
1:11:36was killed by UMA. And um man is
1:11:38interesting because Uman is the is the
1:11:40one that actually revised the Quran and
1:11:43gave us the Quran that we have in our
1:11:44hands today. So this Quran that I that
1:11:46you have here. So this is the umic
1:11:50recession. I've got a copy of it
1:11:53and you're probably curious
1:11:54[clears throat] as to what's the other
1:11:55one then. We'll get to that tomorrow.
1:11:58that was get compiled in 652. Not that
1:12:01one of course that's a new that's a new
1:12:02copy but 652. So that's mid7th century.
1:12:06He then is killed in 656 and then Ali
1:12:08takes over and he only lasts for 5 years
1:12:10before he is killed at the battle of
1:12:13Cifin by Muya at in Cifin itself. So
1:12:16that is basically the emergence of
1:12:19Islam. That's the story you're told.
1:12:21That's the story we've all been told.
1:12:23That's the story. No one's ever really
1:12:26uh have ever bulked has ever bulked
1:12:27that. Conclusion: Islam was fully formed
1:12:30in the Hijaz by 661 within 40 years.
1:12:35Question, how do we know all of the
1:12:37above? Where does it come from? Well,
1:12:40let me ask you this. Where would you
1:12:41like the story to have come from?
1:12:44Muhammad, Abu Bakr, Umar, Utman, and
1:12:47Ali. You would like to have come from
1:12:49people that knew these guys, right? like
1:12:51Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Did not
1:12:54Matthew and John know Jesus? They wrote
1:12:57what they saw? Did they not write what
1:12:59they heard? So, we would like to have
1:13:01eyewitness accounts for what Muhammad
1:13:04saw, Muhammad did, and what Muhammad
1:13:05said, right? Wouldn't we want the same
1:13:07thing that we have for Christianity? Of
1:13:09course, we would. So hopefully that the
1:13:12these are all written down by
1:13:13eyewitnesses or at least got it from the
1:13:15eyewitnesses like Luke and Mark got it
1:13:17from their eyewitnesses and Paul later
1:13:20on.
1:13:22You would like to think that, right? Or
1:13:25at least someone who lived in that area.
1:13:27Am I correct? And lived in that century.
1:13:30Okay, so 30 years, 40 years, maybe 100
1:13:32years of oral tradition. We're willing
1:13:34to go with that. Let's give them the
1:13:35benefit of the doubt. You'd be happy,
1:13:38wouldn't you, if I were able to say
1:13:39that? I can't. Why? Let's put another
1:13:43timeline down. According to the Islamic
1:13:46traditions, now everything I'm going to
1:13:47say comes from their tradition. This is
1:13:49not me saying that. I didn't make it up.
1:13:50You will see that everybody that
1:13:52everybody that I'm going to name has
1:13:54anybody studied Islam before, done a
1:13:56course on it has no one here. Okay?
1:13:59You're going to be our expert. Okay?
1:14:01You're Abdul. All right? Just be Abdul
1:14:02for me.
1:14:03>> Okay?
1:14:04>> And just say yes to everything I say.
1:14:05Okay?
1:14:06>> Be a good Muslim. Be good. Obedient. All
1:14:08right? Abdul, isn't it true according to
1:14:12you, according to Islam that Muhammad
1:14:14dies in 632, right?
1:14:15>> Yes, sir.
1:14:16>> Right. So, obviously someone was there
1:14:18to record that,
1:14:20right? The Salafi, the Sahaba, the
1:14:23Sahaba should be there. The companions
1:14:24of the prophet just say yes.
1:14:28But where do we get the story from?
1:14:29There are no Sahaba. We don't know of
1:14:31any Sahaba. In fact, let's go. And the
1:14:33person you should be telling me about is
1:14:35Ibn Isak. That's the man who actually
1:14:37writes it down. There's his name. Do you
1:14:39see the date that he died?
1:14:41>> Yes, sir.
1:14:42>> Do you have a problem with that?
1:14:45>> 765.
1:14:47Do you think he knew Muhammad?
1:14:49If he died in 632,
1:14:53>> 130 years later, I don't think so.
1:14:56So, already you're starting to see a
1:14:58problem, are you not? The rest of you?
1:15:02But see, we have nothing from Iben Isak.
1:15:04There's not a word, not a letter, not a
1:15:07page written by Iban Isak that I can
1:15:09give you. So where do we get the story
1:15:11of Muhammad? We get it from this guy,
1:15:14Ibnisham
1:15:16833.
1:15:18833.
1:15:20That's 200 years after the fact. Where
1:15:22did Iam get his material from? Was he
1:15:24there? No. Did he ever live in that
1:15:26century? No. He got it from Iban Isak.
1:15:28According to what the introduction says,
1:15:30if you open up the page of the story of
1:15:33the sah of Muhammad, you will see that
1:15:34it gives the story that Ibisham didn't
1:15:36even was not even a student of Isisak.
1:15:39He lived 70 years later. He took what
1:15:42Ibisak said, what he didn't like, he
1:15:44threw away and only wrote what he liked.
1:15:46Is that how you write a biography?
1:15:50More than that, notice another one who
1:15:52wrote one of the sitters his name
1:15:54al-witti. Alwaki didn't even look at
1:15:56Ibisak and all he talked about were the
1:15:57raids, the the invasions that Muhammad
1:16:00did. And he died in 835. But that's not
1:16:03what Muslims go to. They don't go to al
1:16:06Bhari, I'm sorry, to uh Ishim or
1:16:09Albuquerque to know how to walk, talk,
1:16:10eat, and drink. To know how to live your
1:16:13daily life 24/7, you need to go to the
1:16:15traditions, the hadith, the sayings,
1:16:17what Muhammad said. And those are the
1:16:20much larger genre of material. So let's
1:16:23get rid of even his sucks. We know
1:16:24nothing about him. We'll just throw him
1:16:26out. The person to do that you the
1:16:28hadith you need to go to is this man
1:16:30here. Al Bukhari. Al Bukhari is the
1:16:35arbiter of what Muhammad said. He is the
1:16:38most authoritative. That's why they call
1:16:39it sahib bukari means without error. He
1:16:43is without error. But look at the date
1:16:44he died 870. Did he know Muhammad?
1:16:48Absolutely not. But there are five other
1:16:52compilations of hadith that come
1:16:54immediately after him. You have Sahib
1:16:57Muslim died in 875. You have Tin Midi
1:17:00died in 884. You have Ib Maja died in
1:17:03887. You have Abu Daw who died in 899.
1:17:07And you have Anisai who died in 975.
1:17:10Look at all their dates. Those are their
1:17:12death dates. And when you hear these
1:17:13names and when Muslims hear these names,
1:17:15they never put dates to them because
1:17:17they don't want you to see the dates.
1:17:18I'm putting the dates there. so you can
1:17:20see them and I'm putting them on a
1:17:22timeline so you can see the difficulty.
1:17:24So that's the second genre of what we
1:17:26know is the Islamic traditions or the
1:17:28standard Islamic narrative the s and the
1:17:30hadith. Then we have a third genre and a
1:17:32fourth called the tap and the taps would
1:17:35be the commentaries on the crown that
1:17:37expound upon it and show you how you're
1:17:38to interpret it. And then the would be
1:17:41the histories of all mankind. They were
1:17:43first introduced by this guy here alabi
1:17:45in 923.
1:17:489:23 we're talking about the 10th
1:17:49century. So everything we know about who
1:17:52Muhammad was, what he did, what he said,
1:17:55how Islam began, all these stories
1:17:57surrounding his life, Sarah, him going
1:17:59up to the heaven, back down again,
1:18:00getting the five prayers, all these
1:18:02stories about who his wives were, all
1:18:04these battles, everything we know comes
1:18:06from 200 years after the fact. Does that
1:18:08bother any of you?
1:18:11That should bother all of you
1:18:14because that's based on what then? Since
1:18:18they weren't living at that time, where
1:18:19did they get it from? Ask your Muslim
1:18:22friends. But before you do that, I want
1:18:24to put up this guy here, Abdul Malik.
1:18:25Abdul Malik, we're going to see quite a
1:18:27bit in the next two days. Abdul Malik is
1:18:29the greatest of the Umay Caiffs, and he
1:18:32uh was in power from 685 to uh 685 to
1:18:38705. In 692, he introduces the word
1:18:42Mahmud.
1:18:44So supposedly Muhammad, he is the one
1:18:47the first to introduce that word. Hugely
1:18:50significant. We're going to talk about
1:18:52that tomorrow because we've now found
1:18:53out something about that word. But he
1:18:55does it on the Dome of the Rock. He
1:18:57introduces it on the inscriptions, on
1:18:58the inner amulatories of the Dome of the
1:19:00Rock. He also mints coins at that same
1:19:02time. And he introduces it on the coins.
1:19:04I've got some in my bag. He then
1:19:06introduces on the kale protocols. So
1:19:08three different genre introduces this
1:19:11god, this man, this title named Mhm.
1:19:15that's 692. So that's the first time we
1:19:17see this name, right? I'm going to lie
1:19:20because tomorrow I'm going to show you
1:19:21this. Not I'm that's not correct. But
1:19:23this is what Muslims tell us. 692.
1:19:27And I'm going to put these people up
1:19:29because these are the Abbasids. They
1:19:31come to power in 749. They are the ones
1:19:33that eradicate the Umiads, throw the
1:19:35Umiads out. The umades who were
1:19:37headquartered in Damascus take the
1:19:38headquarter from Damascus, bring it down
1:19:40to Baghdad and they are the ones that
1:19:43introduce us to the Muhammad of Islam
1:19:45today. The Muhammad of Islam today is
1:19:48for their invention. Now I most of you
1:19:51are probably going to bulk at hearing me
1:19:52say that. I can't prove that today. I'm
1:19:55going to have to prove that tomorrow.
1:19:56But I want to put them up there so you
1:19:57see them on a timeline. What does that
1:19:59mean? Muhammad was revealed the Muhammad
1:20:02of Islam, according to Islam, was
1:20:04revealed 84 years after the Abbasids
1:20:06created him, 141 years after he was
1:20:09first introduced. Yet, 201 years after
1:20:11he supposedly lived, these are all too
1:20:14late. They're much too late. There's no
1:20:18way in the world that you can trust them
1:20:19if they're that late.
1:20:21Not only that, take a look at where
1:20:22these guys lived. So, the let's look at
1:20:25this map again. This is a Google map
1:20:28from Tim days. So I put modern day on it
1:20:31so you can all know what countries we're
1:20:32talking about. The Islamic tradition
1:20:34says that everything happens in these
1:20:36two cities down here. There's Mecca and
1:20:38Medina down the Hijaz. That's a west
1:20:40western part of Arabia.
1:20:43Yet all of the writers of the traditions
1:20:45do nothing down here. They do all their
1:20:47writing up here in Baghdad. That's 1,200
1:20:50miles away. More than that, Iban Hisham,
1:20:54who is the one that writes the Sitta, he
1:20:56was born in Basra. He grew up in Cairo.
1:20:59He did his writing in Baghdad. Basra is
1:21:021,200 miles away. Cairo is 990 miles
1:21:05away. And of course, as we know, Baghdad
1:21:08is,200 miles away. He did nothing way
1:21:10down there. Everything was up in the
1:21:11north. Everything is up in what is today
1:21:14uh Egypt, Syria, and Iraq. When we get
1:21:18to Al Badi, he comes from Bhara, which
1:21:21is in which is in Usuzbekistan. Look
1:21:24where Bhari is. It is a good 2,600 miles
1:21:28away. He was born and grew up there,
1:21:30though he did all his work in Baghdad
1:21:32before he died. Alab, who is the one
1:21:34that's responsible for the taps in the
1:21:37he is from what is today northern Iran
1:21:39in Tabatistan. That is 1,700 miles away.
1:21:43Conclusion, none of these traditional
1:21:45writers lived or worked in Mecca Medina.
1:21:48They never worked down here. They all
1:21:50worked up here. They were too far to the
1:21:52north of Mecca and came from the west
1:21:54and the east and of Baghdad. Why do you
1:21:57think they were all in the north and
1:21:58they weren't in the south? Anybody have
1:22:00any idea?
1:22:02No idea, right?
1:22:05I'm going to show you how easy this is
1:22:08tomorrow. And it has to do with one
1:22:10word.
1:22:12One word that all of you need, but
1:22:15that's for tomorrow. Note, all of these
1:22:18northern areas are where the Abbasidas
1:22:20originated from. That's the Abbasid area
1:22:22where all these guys are from. They only
1:22:24come to power in 749. They continue up
1:22:27until 1299. They are Persian.
1:22:30[clears throat] Their headquarters is
1:22:31Baghdad. It used to be called Stafon.
1:22:33They are the carrier from the
1:22:35Sassinating Empire. So, let's continue
1:22:38on. You might say, well, don't we have
1:22:40the same problem as Christians? Aren't
1:22:42we also dependent on oral tradition?
1:22:45Yes, we are.
1:22:47But let's do the same test because
1:22:51[clears throat]
1:22:52when you look at the New Testament, we
1:22:53have the same genre in the New
1:22:55Testament. The sitta of Jesus would be
1:22:57Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The
1:22:58biography of Jesus. What he did would be
1:23:01Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Right for
1:23:03the last three years, especially the
1:23:05hadith of Jesus would be Matthew, Mark,
1:23:07Luke, and John as well. Every time Jesus
1:23:08spoke, many of you maybe have in your
1:23:10Bible, it's written in red letters.
1:23:11That's called the red letter part of the
1:23:13gospels, right? That's the hadith of
1:23:16Jesus. The taps of what Jesus did would
1:23:19be the commentaries that explain what
1:23:21Jesus said, Paul then took and he wrote
1:23:23them. And so what Jesus said here, he
1:23:25said, "This is how you're to work it out
1:23:27in Philippi and this is how it's be
1:23:28worked out in Ephesus. And here's your
1:23:30how you're to work it out in Corinth and
1:23:31especially in Rome." So that would be
1:23:33the taps of Jesus's teaching would be
1:23:35the commentaries written by Paul. And as
1:23:38far as the tarik, which would be the
1:23:39histories of all mankind, that would be
1:23:41the the the the book of acts written by
1:23:44Luke himself, the history of the early
1:23:47church. So there's the same exact genre
1:23:49that we're talking about for the Islamic
1:23:51traditions we have in the New Testament.
1:23:54So let's test the New Testament and
1:23:56let's ask the same question. When were
1:23:58the writers of the New Testament
1:23:59actually living? When were they writing?
1:24:01And where were they living? All right,
1:24:03let's see if they we have the same
1:24:04problem that Islam has. So now I'm going
1:24:07to step on some of your toes. In fact,
1:24:08I'm going to step on all of your toes.
1:24:09I'm going to use the most liberal dates
1:24:11I can. I'm not going to use the dates
1:24:13you're going to you're not going to like
1:24:14my dates, but I'm doing it for a reason.
1:24:16I'm doing it so that you can understand
1:24:18just how good it is for our Lord Jesus
1:24:21Christ. Let's look at the ti, which
1:24:22would be the earliest material that we
1:24:24have. That would be the book of Acts,
1:24:26the the history of the early church
1:24:28written by Luke between 52 and 62 AD. So
1:24:31within 20 to 30 years of Christ's death,
1:24:33you already have the history of the
1:24:35early church. Let's talk about the taps.
1:24:38That would be Paul's letter. He starts
1:24:39writing within 50 years of Christ's
1:24:41death between 48 and 65 when he is
1:24:44killed in Rome. That's within 15 to 34
1:24:46years. You now have the taps of Jesus
1:24:49with all the different letters to the
1:24:50different churches. Then we start
1:24:52getting into the gospel accounts and
1:24:54this is the sah of Jesus and the hadith
1:24:56of Jesus. Both the biography and also
1:24:58what he said. Mark is the first one I'm
1:25:01going to put up there. He dies in 70 AD.
1:25:03So that's within 37 years of Christ's
1:25:05death. You now have the sitta and the
1:25:07hadith of Jesus. That's the first one.
1:25:08Then we get two more that come about 10
1:25:10years later. Uh in 80 AD written by
1:25:13Matthew and Luke. That's 47 years after
1:25:15Christ's death. You get the second
1:25:16series of sitta in hadith. So now we
1:25:19have three different John three
1:25:21different copies of the sitta and the
1:25:23hadith of Jesus. And then finally we end
1:25:25with John who has the last sitta and the
1:25:27last hadith. He dies in 90 AD. So within
1:25:2957 years, which means within 29 to 57
1:25:33years of Christ's death, the entire New
1:25:35Testament is written down.
1:25:37What's more, and this is so important,
1:25:41all of the New Testament writers
1:25:43lived in the same place Jesus lived.
1:25:47And they either knew him personally or
1:25:48they got the material from others who
1:25:50saw what he did and heard what he said.
1:25:52So our genre of our material of all of
1:25:54our s the
1:25:57all come from within 60 years of
1:25:59Christ's death all either by
1:26:01eyewitnesses or those who were the
1:26:02eyewitnesses and all from with the same
1:26:05area that Jesus lived. If we were to use
1:26:07what we if we were dependent on what
1:26:09Islam has for Muhammad, none of the
1:26:12writers would be down in the area of
1:26:15Galilee. They would all be up in Turkey
1:26:17and they would all be writing in the
1:26:19third century redacting it back to the
1:26:21first century.
1:26:22You see as a comparative who has the
1:26:25more authoritative material when the
1:26:28earliest when were the earliest
1:26:29biographies saying the both for both
1:26:31face were written. Christianity we have
1:26:33our material within 15 to 60 years later
1:26:36written by those from the same area.
1:26:38Islam is dependent from two to 300 years
1:26:41later written hundreds of miles too far
1:26:43north. Which would you guess is the more
1:26:45authoritative?
1:26:49In fact, if we were if we had to be
1:26:51dependent on what we know of Jesus
1:26:55concerning what we know of Jesus as the
1:26:57Muslims are on what they know of
1:26:59Muhammad,
1:27:01we would have if we would had to depend,
1:27:03let me just read it rather than try to
1:27:04say it. If we had to depend on sources
1:27:06for Jesus comparable to what Muslims are
1:27:08dependent on for Muhammad, Jesus would
1:27:11not begin to appear until the 3rd
1:27:13century. Matthew, Mark, and Luke, John
1:27:15would not be living anywhere near
1:27:16Galilee. They would be living all up in
1:27:18what is today Turkey and they would be
1:27:20living and working in the third century
1:27:22redacting it back to the first century.
1:27:23How in the world would we defend him? I
1:27:26wouldn't know how to defend Jesus.
1:27:28And yet that's exactly what the Muslims
1:27:30have and no one's taking them to bat for
1:27:32it. No one's going public with this.
1:27:35We've got to hold Muslims responsible
1:27:37for this and say, "No wonder you don't
1:27:40know who your prophet is. No wonder you
1:27:42have no idea what he's did or who he was
1:27:45or what he said. Now, I'm going to
1:27:48actually I just lied to you a few
1:27:50minutes ago. I'm going to shut down
1:27:53everything I just said. I told you that
1:27:55the book that you all are dependent on
1:27:57is this book here. This is the book that
1:27:59actually gives you the biography called
1:28:01the life of Muhammad. Notice what it
1:28:03says underneath it and I can hardly read
1:28:06it. the uh translation of
1:28:11ibnisak. Remember I kind of threw out
1:28:12Ibn Isak out, right? Did you notice I
1:28:14threw him out and I replaced him with
1:28:15Ibn Isam because we have nothing from
1:28:17Ibnisak. We only have it from Ibn Isam
1:28:19who is who died in 833. That's the book
1:28:21you have to read. If you go to any
1:28:23university anywhere in the world, this
1:28:25one's in English, but if you go to any
1:28:26other place where it'll be translated to
1:28:28any other language, that's the biography
1:28:30of Muhammad that you have to live with.
1:28:31That's the one that you have to read.
1:28:34You want to ask where and did and who if
1:28:36I don't believe I mean suck wrote it
1:28:38then and if I then who did write it well
1:28:40to understand that you need to ask the
1:28:42Germans and the Germans actually just
1:28:44told me this back in September so I'm
1:28:46not even noted a year I had no idea that
1:28:49book that everybody reads all over the
1:28:51world did not come from Ibnisak we
1:28:53already know that it did not even come
1:28:54from Iban Isham there is no manuscript
1:28:58from Ibisham nothing from the 9th
1:29:00century so who wrote that
1:29:04Who would you like to have written the
1:29:05book? If Ib Sham didn't write it, then
1:29:07who else would you like to have written
1:29:08it?
1:29:10Probably someone who could read and
1:29:12write Arabic, right? Or somebody who got
1:29:15it from those who could read and write.
1:29:16Am I correct?
1:29:18Probably a Middle Eastern. Correct.
1:29:23Wrong on both cases. You want to see who
1:29:25actually wrote that book? You want to
1:29:27know when he wrote it? Here he is.
1:29:30That's him right there. His name is
1:29:32Heinrich Ferdinand Worenfeld.
1:29:35A German scholar living in Berlin in
1:29:381858
1:29:40decided to go to four different German
1:29:42universities going into different
1:29:44libraries and started plucking out
1:29:47everything he could find on this man
1:29:49named Muhammad all in Arabic.
1:29:51And in between 1858 and 1860, he then
1:29:56compiled the biography of Muhammad and
1:29:58published it in 1860. And that is the
1:30:01book we read today. Every Muslim around
1:30:03the world is dependent on this German
1:30:05scholar. Before 1860, there was no sitta
1:30:08of Muhammad. Oh, there were stories
1:30:11about him floating here, floating there,
1:30:13flowing everywhere. The Germans started
1:30:15collecting them and bringing him back to
1:30:17Germany like all the Europeans did and
1:30:18they kept them in their libraries for
1:30:20safekeeping. And it was he that finally
1:30:22put it together into a form so that the
1:30:24world could read it. It is only 160
1:30:27years old. The man who Muslims are
1:30:28dependent on to know who the prophet is
1:30:30or what he did is an elderly German
1:30:33linguist who wrote Muhammad's story 160
1:30:35years ago. Thus over a thousand years
1:30:38too late.
1:30:42Thank God we don't have this problem
1:30:43with Jesus Christ. Isn't it great that
1:30:46we don't have to hold up to this kind of
1:30:48scrutiny? But hold on.
1:30:53I'm going to now introduce something
1:30:55that I have that has not even gone up on
1:30:57YouTube yet. This is new material.
1:30:58You're the first to hear it. Actually,
1:30:59no. The Czech Republic heard it two days
1:31:03ago. They were the first. So, you're the
1:31:04second to hear this
1:31:07back in about a year ago. I was really
1:31:09taken to bat by uh a scholar on YouTube
1:31:13who started mocking me because he was
1:31:15saying, you know, Jay, you have no idea
1:31:16what you're talking about. You're saying
1:31:17that these are all written in the 9th
1:31:19and 10th century, redacted back to the
1:31:21seventh century. Well, let me show you
1:31:22here. Here's Mua. I've got it in my
1:31:24hand. Jay Muata. This is a guy. This is
1:31:26a man who actually knew Muhammad. He was
1:31:28a Sahafa. I've got his book in my hand.
1:31:30Hey, look over here, Jay. I've got Al
1:31:31Bhari. You know this Al Bhari? This guy
1:31:33actually knew Muhammad. I've got his
1:31:35book right in my hand. And you, how dare
1:31:37you say that these are written 9th and
1:31:3810th century. These were all written in
1:31:40the seventh century and the 8th century.
1:31:42They were all written by people that
1:31:43actually knew Muhammad. And he started
1:31:44pulling taking book after book off the
1:31:46shelf and opening it up and reading the
1:31:48words and also reading the dates.
1:31:51So I decided, well, hold on a minute.
1:31:53That's interesting. I said, 'What books
1:31:55is he pulling off his shelf and where
1:31:57did those books come from and what
1:31:59manuscript did they come from?
1:32:02So I decided to ask my team to do some
1:32:04research. Dr. uh
1:32:08Dr. Pat Anderson especially, this guy is
1:32:10an amazing amazing researcher. When I
1:32:13ask him to do a a few pages, he he ends
1:32:16up and sends me 83 pages of written
1:32:19material. I have to wade through all
1:32:21that stuff. So I wanted to find out
1:32:23exactly when al-B buhari sahimus ib
1:32:26wanted to know when the first extent
1:32:28manuscript that means the first
1:32:29manuscript that we can read today that
1:32:31is act that that comes from that that we
1:32:34can attribute to these individuals
1:32:36because I assumed that if these
1:32:38individuals wrote it the manuscript
1:32:39should be there because we're only
1:32:40talking about the 9th century right
1:32:42that's only 17 that's only 1,200 years
1:32:45ago
1:32:47listen you can get manuscripts for the
1:32:48new test the new testament that go all
1:32:50the way back to the third and fourth
1:32:51century The we have the sinaticus, we
1:32:53have the Alexandrinus, we have the
1:32:54Vaticanas. Three complete metropolitan
1:32:57cotices for the New Testament alone in
1:32:59Greek from the fourth and fifth century.
1:33:01Am I correct?
1:33:03We have over 60 365 manuscripts of the
1:33:08New Testament alone that are partial not
1:33:10all of them are full from before the
1:33:11sixth century. Am I correct?
1:33:14If we have such a treasure trove of
1:33:16manuscripts and remember we these the
1:33:18only reason we have these manuscripts is
1:33:20because they were written on vellum they
1:33:21were written on parchment before that we
1:33:23were all dependent on papyrus before
1:33:25that and that's why we don't have the
1:33:26gospel the gospel accounts because they
1:33:28were written on papyrus which are
1:33:30nothing more than these interlocking
1:33:31leaves that disintegrate after 100 years
1:33:33because they dry up and they just
1:33:34wrinkle that's we don't have the
1:33:36originals for that reason but by the 4th
1:33:38century by the time Constantine finally
1:33:40officiated the council of Nika and
1:33:42commissioned those 50 documents those 50
1:33:44which the cineatus and the Alexandrinus
1:33:46are probably two of that was all written
1:33:49on parchment why because you need animal
1:33:51skins to write on parchment animal skins
1:33:53are very expensive gazels are very
1:33:56expensive just the city atticus the one
1:33:59that's there in the British m British
1:34:00library that took 62 gazelle skins just
1:34:03to write that one codeex
1:34:06see now the Muslims can't make that
1:34:07excuse because they didn't they were
1:34:08never dependent on papyrus because these
1:34:11were caiffs that were commissioning all
1:34:12these books And the caiffs always used
1:34:14parchment. They always used animal skins
1:34:17because they were wealthy enough to do
1:34:19so.
1:34:21So
1:34:22I wanted to find out where these extent
1:34:24manuscripts are. There should be
1:34:27manuscripts by Iban Hisham at least from
1:34:28the 9th century and al-Buhi in the 9th
1:34:30century and Sahim Muslim and I there
1:34:33should be some from Talabi, right? And
1:34:35the Mata those are even earlier. They
1:34:37should also be from that time period,
1:34:38right? Well, you're going to see
1:34:40something that's not gone up on YouTube
1:34:42yet. This is yet to go up. Let's just
1:34:44see what we have found. So let's let's
1:34:49see where these manuscripts are these
1:34:52extent manuscripts. Let's start with the
1:34:54hadith. These are Sahibu Sahib Bukari
1:34:57Sahim Muslim. These are the sayings of
1:34:59Muhammad, right? Written by Bkari,
1:35:01Muslim, Da Naj and and Naive. Every one
1:35:06of them are the six Majima Majith
1:35:08writers. All were living in the 9th and
1:35:1010th century. Where would you think the
1:35:12first manuscripts come from? Well, you
1:35:16would hope the nth century.
1:35:19Abu Daw 10th century, 100 years later.
1:35:22Sahib Muslim 11th century, 200 years
1:35:25later. We have nothing earlier than the
1:35:2611th century for Sahim Muslim. Ib Maha
1:35:3011th century. We have nothing earlier
1:35:31than the 11th century for his anai 12th
1:35:35century. 300 years later
1:35:3913th century that's 400 years after the
1:35:43fact
1:35:4514th to the 15th century that's 500
1:35:47years later
1:35:50folks do you see the problem with that
1:35:52none of these come from the men that
1:35:54they are attributed to these are these
1:35:56are all nothing more than attributions
1:35:59now let's talk about the moata the ones
1:36:00that are supposed to be even earlier the
1:36:02ones that he was taking off his shelf
1:36:03and was mocking me with let's look at
1:36:05those manuscripts and let's see where
1:36:06they come from. So let's go to the other
1:36:08side. Companions of the prophet these
1:36:10are all supposedly written in the
1:36:11seventh century. The mata itself that's
1:36:14the earliest manuscript that we can come
1:36:16across for any of the Islamic tradition.
1:36:18It was written in the 9th century that's
1:36:19200 years after the fact. The sah sahifa
1:36:22ib munabi is from the 12th century.
1:36:24That's 500 years too late. The the the
1:36:27writings of hanbal from the hani school
1:36:30are from the 13th century. That's 600
1:36:32years too late. The musaf which is
1:36:34composed of something written by one of
1:36:36the companions the prophet it was
1:36:37written in the 13th century that's 600
1:36:39years later and talisia the 13th century
1:36:42600 years later and abisha that's the
1:36:4513th century 600 years too late not one
1:36:49of these are from the 9th and 10th
1:36:51century except for the muata every one
1:36:54of them come from the 11th 12th 13th all
1:36:56the way up into the 15th century
1:36:59these are mostly Ottoman writings
1:37:02redacted back onto these men. Not one of
1:37:05them is from the time period that they
1:37:06say they are from. This is yet to go up,
1:37:09folks. This is going to be a nice This
1:37:10is going to be a great one when we put
1:37:12it up. These documents were all
1:37:13supposedly created in the 7th to 9th
1:37:15century. Yet, they do not even begin to
1:37:17appear until the 9th to the 15th century
1:37:19from 100 to 600 years too late.
1:37:23This proves that they were all written
1:37:25by others hundreds of years after the
1:37:28fact. Written by other people, not the
1:37:30men they're even attributed to. These
1:37:32are nothing more than attributions much
1:37:34like the Gospel of Thomas. Gospel of
1:37:36Thomas supposedly written by Thomas. We
1:37:38now know it was written hundreds of
1:37:40years later. Or the Gospel of Barnabas,
1:37:42the ones the Muslims like to use the
1:37:43most. Written by Darnos. It was written
1:37:45in the 16th century redacted back to
1:37:47Barnabas in the first century.
1:37:50Thank God we don't have this problem.
1:37:53Now, can you understand then the dilemma
1:37:55for the 21st century scholars
1:37:58concerning these late dates? And I'm not
1:38:00just talking about the 9th and 10th
1:38:01century. I'm talking about the 11th,
1:38:0312th, and the 15th century. Islam, as we
1:38:06know, they say, did not exist in the 7th
1:38:08century, but evolved over a period of 2
1:38:09to 300 years. The Quran probably was not
1:38:13revealed to one man in 22 years, but
1:38:15likely evolved over a period of 50 to
1:38:17100 years. Conclusion, the history of
1:38:20Islam, at least from the time of the ca
1:38:22Abdul Malik and before, is a later
1:38:25fabrication. And you can see then why
1:38:28they are concerned. These are the
1:38:30scholars concern.
1:38:32If so much of Islamic history was
1:38:34created so late, then why in the world
1:38:37did it take so long to write it down?
1:38:40The answer they come back with is
1:38:42because they were illiterate at that
1:38:43time. No, no, no, no, no. Listen, by the
1:38:46time that Abu Bakr and Umad and Uman and
1:38:48Ali come to power, they now controlled
1:38:50all the way from over here, uh, Libya
1:38:53over here, all the way to Afghanistan
1:38:55over here, from Turkey up here, all the
1:38:56way down to Yemen in the south. Are you
1:38:59telling me that nobody in the cities,
1:39:01these cities of Baghdad or Damascus or
1:39:03Jerusalem or Cairo or Basel or Ba? None
1:39:06of these places had anybody that could
1:39:08read or write.
1:39:10What about the libraries in Alexandria?
1:39:12Wasn't there a library that was burned
1:39:14down in the fifth century? What's what's
1:39:16in the library? If they're not books, of
1:39:18course, they could read or write. And
1:39:19don't the Muslims tell us that the Quran
1:39:21was written down by the secretary of
1:39:23Muhammad named Zedabit? Yeah. Who is
1:39:26Zadim? He was a secretary. What do
1:39:28secretaries do? They write, do they not?
1:39:31So, you can see, of course, they knew
1:39:33how to read and write. And we're going
1:39:34to see that tomorrow, just how hopeless
1:39:36they knew how to read and write. So,
1:39:38it's obviously that there was something
1:39:40wrong here. There was nothing written
1:39:42down. There should have been everything
1:39:43written down. Obviously, these are way
1:39:45too late. Therefore, they cannot be
1:39:47trusted. They're much too late. Two to
1:39:50300. Now, I even say five to a thousand
1:39:52years too late. So therefore, since they
1:39:54are so late, we need to go back to the
1:39:57period when they were written down. We
1:40:00need to go back to the 7th century. We
1:40:02need to go back to this time period.
1:40:06I'm not interested anymore in the 9th
1:40:07and 10th century or the 11th or 12th
1:40:09century. Don't waste my time. That's why
1:40:10I'm telling Muslims anymore. I don't
1:40:12want to talk about these men. I want to
1:40:14talk about the seventh century. You need
1:40:15to come back to the seventh century.
1:40:17Let's talk about that place and let's
1:40:19talk about that time. And to do that, we
1:40:23need to do it with the material that is
1:40:24for the seventh century.
1:40:27So what we're going to do then starting
1:40:30tomorrow, because I say I only have a
1:40:31few minutes left, we're going to do that
1:40:33with Mecca. Wait till you see what we
1:40:35now know about Mecca. We're going to
1:40:37have fun with Mecca. So tomorrow morning
1:40:39we're going to ask the question
1:40:42since we cannot trust any of these
1:40:45scholars who have written about Muhammad
1:40:47and where he came and what he did and
1:40:48what he said. Why don't we go back to
1:40:50the seventh century and ask well what
1:40:52about the place he came from? Why don't
1:40:54we go back to Mecca? Let's go back to
1:40:57that
1:40:59place in the middle of the desert. It's
1:41:01just below Medina, just below Tif, about
1:41:0535 miles in from the Red Sea. Let's go
1:41:08to that place and see if it existed.
1:41:11What do you think or what would you
1:41:13suggest from what you know now? I
1:41:15haven't said anything yet about Mecca.
1:41:16How many here think that Mecca did exist
1:41:18in the seventh century?
1:41:21Okay.
1:41:231 2 3 four. So the four of you five.
1:41:26Mecca did exist in the seventh century.
1:41:28Now when I hear a Muslim put his hand
1:41:30up, the first thing I say you is, oh
1:41:32come back, come tomorrow and prove to me
1:41:34that he existed in the seventh century.
1:41:35Show me one reference to it. All right.
1:41:38So, you have 24 hours to do. You have 12
1:41:41hours to do that. Come back in 12 hours
1:41:43and I want the five of you raised your
1:41:45hands to show me one piece of evidence
1:41:47that Mecca existed. All right. Are you
1:41:49ready? We're ready to do that.
1:41:53And there are some material out there. I
1:41:55hope you find it. Let's see if Mecca did
1:41:58exist. The rest of you, I assume you
1:42:00have some doubts now or you just don't
1:42:01like raising your hands.
1:42:04How many of you believe it did not
1:42:06exist? Let's put your hands up. Who? If
1:42:08it did not exist. Okay, can you prove
1:42:10that?
1:42:12>> But tomorrow you will.

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