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Dr. Gabor Maté: The Shocking Link Between ADHD, Addiction, Autoimmune Diseases, & Trauma — Transcript

by Mel Robbins · 10,559 words · 1,576 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00is it fair to say that your childhood
0:03and the conditions and the experiences
0:04that you have directly create or cause
0:08ADHD addiction and autoimmune issues
0:12that's right if you look at children in
0:15poverty or or who experience racialized
0:18circumstances they're more likely to be
0:20diagnosed with ADHD the children of
0:22women with postpartum depression are
0:24more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD
0:26the children of women who are stressed
0:28during pregnancy are more like to be
0:30diagnosed with ADHD there's no parent
0:32blaming here but we have to recognize
0:35the importance and impact of early
0:37experiences the diagnosis doesn't
0:39explain anything what do you mean the
0:40diagnosis doesn't mean anything don't
0:42ask why the addiction ask why the
0:44pain and if you want understand the pain
0:47look at the person's life rather than
0:50just their
0:53genes hey it's your friend Mel I so
0:56excited that you're here with me today
0:57it is always an honor to be able to
0:59spend some time with you to be together
1:01to learn together if you're brand new I
1:03want to take a moment and welcome you to
1:05the Mel Robbins podcast family super
1:07excited that you're here and because you
1:09chose to listen to this episode I know
1:12something about you you're the type of
1:14person who values your time and you're
1:16also in learning about simple ways that
1:18you can improve your own life and I
1:20absolutely love that and you know what I
1:22also love I love that you and I are
1:23going to get spend time today learning
1:25from the extraordinary Dr Gabor mate
1:29he's a world renowned physician a New
1:31York Times best-selling author and a
1:33renowned addiction expert who dies deep
1:36into childhood development and the
1:38impact of physiological and
1:40psychological trauma and how it shapes
1:42our mental and physical health over your
1:44lifetime and today specifically you and
1:47I are going to dive deep with Dr mate
1:49into how ADHD people pleasing addiction
1:53your inability to say no and autoimmune
1:55disorders are not things that you're
1:57born with they were created by your
1:59childhood
2:00so please help me welcome Dr Gabor mate
2:04to the Mel Robins podcast thank you I'm
2:07really excited about the topic today and
2:11your work around how childhood
2:15conditions and experiences in your
2:16childhood are connected to ADHD
2:19addiction and autoimmune diseases and
2:23disorders and I have so many questions I
2:26want to ask you why don't we start with
2:29just your definition of what you're
2:32talking about when you mean childhood
2:34conditions so that as the person is
2:37listening to us today and spending time
2:39with us together we're all using the
2:41same words and Concepts and we kind of
2:44start on the same page so child
2:46conditions include the physical
2:48conditions um nutrition
2:50housing um comfort
2:55protection but they also include the
2:57emotional conditions which it has to do
3:00with um a child's sense of being
3:02accepted or being loved or not just as
3:05loved but actually being seen
3:08understood and also in the Parents
3:10emotional states um are the parents
3:13stressed are the parents struggling with
3:17economic
3:18difficulties uh other parents carrying
3:21traumas that they hadn't worked through
3:23yet like I had when I was a young parent
3:28um other par parents in a marriage
3:31that's relatively peaceful is there a
3:33lot of conflict there's a lot of
3:35instability is there
3:37unpredictability what kind of Community
3:39Support there is is there an extended
3:41family that can spell off the parents
3:43and give them some kind of emotional
3:45support are they rather
3:47isolated are you single parent
3:50struggling to make a living and raise a
3:51child so all these conditions affect the
3:55personality and the Brain development of
3:57the
3:58child I know you wrote the original book
4:02on childhood development in ADHD
4:04scattered Minds 25 years ago it is still
4:07on the bestseller list when it comes to
4:09ADHD topics
4:12yeah I don't know if I'm going to say
4:14this correctly but is it fair to say
4:17that your opinion is that your childhood
4:20and the conditions and the experiences
4:22that you have directly create or cause
4:25ADHD addiction and autoimmune issues yes
4:29along with certain genetic
4:31predispositions okay but I can talk
4:34about genetics later but what I want to
4:36say about them now is a predisposition
4:38is not as a same as a predetermination
4:41okay so you can have predispositions but
4:44then depending on the environmental
4:46conditions those predispositions can be
4:48expressed one way or another way so you
4:50can have animals with the same
4:53genes or humans with the same genes they
4:56have very different outcomes depending
4:58on the kind of condition
5:00under which the early years were spent
5:01under so that's what I'm saying yes and
5:05um and the first recognition of that in
5:08my life came when I was diagnosed with
5:09ADHD at age 53 or 52 or something so I
5:13was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 46
5:16okay when our son Oakley was going
5:19through the process of going through
5:21neuros pych evaluations for schools and
5:24IEPs and as they were doing his
5:27evaluations I started going oh wait a
5:28minute
5:30that's not that's a lot like me yeah and
5:32then I went through the formal process
5:34of being evaluated and diagnosed
5:37dyslexia ADHD yeah and I had never ever
5:41ever heard anyone connect your childhood
5:46and adverse conditions or conditions
5:49where you didn't get your needs met yeah
5:51being a contributing factor or a cause
5:54of ADHD how is that even possible well
5:57it's possible because Western medicine
5:59and separates the Mind from the body so
6:02they tend to look at things purely from
6:03a biological point of view so ADHD is
6:06considered to be a genetic disease that
6:08you inherited here's the problem with
6:10that number one if that's the case why
6:12the numbers going up genes don't change
6:15in a population over 10 20 or 30 years
6:17so something's going on in the
6:18environment that's affecting the Child
6:20Development number one number two even
6:22if you look at the physiology of the
6:23child's brain was not understood by most
6:26Physicians because it's not taught in
6:27the medical schools but it's first
6:29firmly and completely unequivocally and
6:32uncontroversially established in brain
6:34science is that the brain is a social
6:36product that the brain development of
6:38the child depends on the emotional
6:41conditions under which the child lives
6:43from In Utero onwards and so that um the
6:48very circuitry of the child's brain it's
6:52programmed by the action of the
6:54environment on the genes so different
6:56environments will act differently on the
6:58same genes no if you look at ADHD yes
7:02what's the medication that we give I
7:03took it for while stimulant yeah what do
7:06stimulant do they elevate the level of a
7:09chemical called dopamine in the brain
7:11and dopamine is essential for motivation
7:14and therefore for focus and that's what
7:17rline and dexedrine and Nal and all
7:19these medications Elevate
7:22now the dopamine ccy of the child's
7:25brain develops in interaction with the
7:27environment and this is what most people
7:30who deal with ADH they just don't look
7:31at even though it's just a pure
7:33scientific fact you know and the summary
7:36from Harvard University pointed out that
7:38the child's brain develops in
7:39interaction with the environment
7:41especially the emotional relationship
7:43with the nurturing adults now dopamine
7:46is a brain chemical we have receptors
7:49for in our brain and receptors are
7:51molecules where the dopamine can land
7:53and do his job the number of dopamine
7:56receptors in a child is affected by
8:00stress on the mother already in
8:01pregnancy let alone afterwards if you
8:05take
8:06mice um and you isolate them the number
8:09of dopamine receptors will go down if
8:11you bring back back into companionship
8:15the number of dopamine receptors we
8:17Elevate in other words the brain is a
8:19social organ it's interactive with the
8:21environment all our lives and therefore
8:24environmental conditions affect the
8:25brain especially during its phase of
8:28early development it's just pure science
8:30is not even controversial so the problem
8:33here is the tendency of the medical
8:35profession in which I was trained is to
8:37separate the Mind from the body and to
8:39look at brain biology in isolation from
8:43the life circumstances that shape that
8:45brain biology so that's one problem here
8:48so I'm going to try to distill what you
8:50just
8:51said because I've never heard it
8:54explained quite like that and I believe
8:57you
9:00what you're saying is that your brain is
9:05a social organ that is developed in
9:09partnership with your relationship to
9:12the adults around you exactly when you
9:14are when you're literally inside your
9:17mother's womb yeah all the way until you
9:20are you know developing as a little kid
9:23yeah and if you are in a condition
9:25whether it is the condition of being
9:27inside your mother's womb and your
9:29mother is depressed or experiencing
9:31racism or abuse or poverty or any of
9:34these things that create chronic stress
9:37on a human being it impacts the
9:39development of your brain exactly and
9:42what you're also saying is that
9:44ADHD and the way that it is treated is
9:48typically through prescription drugs
9:52that's right that flood the brain with
9:54dopamine yeah and that is what helps
9:58your underdeveloped brain or whatever we
10:01want to call it or the brain that's been
10:03impacted by stressful conditions during
10:05your childhood or your development in in
10:09womb
10:11and that the stressful conditions are
10:15what has interfered with the brain
10:19development and continues to now can I
10:22ask you a quick question yeah so I
10:26understand that
10:27when as a human human being you're
10:30experiencing stress yeah or you are
10:34experiencing a threat yeah or you're
10:36feeling isolated and lonely and like
10:39you're invisible or nobody cares about
10:41you yeah that it
10:43switches between that your body
10:46naturally switches from being present
10:47and in the prefrontal cortex to the
10:49amydala taking over and you're now in
10:51like fighter flight when you're in
10:53fighter flight and you're kind of in
10:54that stress response state does it
10:57interfere
10:59with dopamine it interferes with
11:02dopamine it interferes with uh cortisol
11:05it has effect on the memory centers in
11:07the brain like the hippocampus it
11:09affects the amydala all those things and
11:13uh if you look at children in poverty or
11:16or who experience um racialized
11:20circumstances they're more likely to be
11:21diagnosed with ADHD the children of
11:24women with postpartum depression are
11:26more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD
11:28the children of women who are stressed
11:30during pregnancy are more likely to be
11:32diagnosed with ADHD and there's this
11:35myth about it being genetic because it
11:37tends to run in families like you were
11:39diagnosed your kids are diagnosed I was
11:41diagnosed a couple of my kids are
11:42diagnosed but it's not because the the
11:46so-called disease P it's not even a
11:47disease but it's not because the
11:49so-called disease was passed on but
11:51because the
11:53conditions
11:55that they created your beingin were also
11:57then repeated in your children's
12:00childhood as in mine so something
12:03running in a family says nothing about
12:05genetic
12:07causation and uh going back to the
12:10flight or fight thing if a child is
12:13feeling stressed and by the way I think
12:15there is something genetic here and what
12:16is genetic here sensitivity and the more
12:19sensitive kids are the more they feel
12:20what's going on around them so if the
12:22family If the parents are stressed the
12:25child feels the stress can the child
12:27Escape or fight back no what did they do
12:30they tune
12:31out but when did they tune out they tune
12:34out when the brain is developing so that
12:36gets wired into the brain and now
12:38they're told you got this genetic
12:39disease no you don't it's an adaptation
12:42that it began as an adaptation and as as
12:46with many of these childood
12:48adaptations later on they create
12:50problems so they serve their purpose but
12:53now they are wired in and you know not
12:56to mention if you look at the traits of
12:58ad HD which is the absent mindedness the
13:02tuning out and then the other traits of
13:05ADHD are poor impulse
13:08regulation which means that when you
13:10want to do something
13:12like I might have an Impulse to do
13:14something there's nothing with nothing
13:15wrong with the
13:16impulse but there's something wrong with
13:18me acting out the impulse but impulse
13:21regulation depends on certain circuitry
13:23in the brain no baby is an Impulse
13:26regulation it has to develop for
13:29anything that's developmental the
13:31conditions have to be right if a plant
13:33in your backyard wasn't growing the way
13:36you expected it youd look at what's
13:38missing here nutrition sunlight
13:42irrigation it's the same with kids when
13:44they got these challenges let's look at
13:47the conditions that shape their
13:49development so impul regulation is
13:51another brain circuitry that doesn't
13:53develop well in people with ADHD and
13:56incidentally in people who are addicted
13:58which is why there's such a great link
14:00between addictions and ADHD and then the
14:02third one is which is sometimes they're
14:04not always hyperactivity yeah more tends
14:06to be they more boys not girls Y and
14:09regulation of the body is a function of
14:11the midfrontal
14:12cortex that has to develop so under
14:16conditions of stress given that the
14:18brain is a social organ and it's also a
14:21historical organ I do you know that does
14:22the name Bruce Perry mean anything to
14:24you is he in Wisconsin I don't know
14:27where he is but he's a well wellknown
14:28child trauma py yes he's I believe he's
14:30in Milwaukee Wisconsin I think but don't
14:32quote me on that did he write the book
14:33with Oprah win yeah he wrote the book
14:35what what happened to you and he says
14:37the brain is a historical organ so it
14:40stores the impacts of Life Experiences
14:43so when we look at brain biology let's
14:45not think that the biology is somehow
14:48distinct and separated from life
14:49experience so there's no fault laying
14:53here and sometimes I do get accused of
14:55blaming parents it's the last thing I
14:57want to do I don't hear you blaming
14:59parents I hear you talking very
15:01factually no but but but there's a very
15:03well-known ADHD psychologist who goes on
15:07YouTube and says I blame parents and I
15:09don't actually I think parents do their
15:10best they love their kids but their best
15:12is limited by their own particular
15:15challenges and limitations you know
15:17there's no parent blaming here but we
15:19have to recognize the importance and
15:22impact of early experiences so what I'm
15:24saying is that ADHD is the result of all
15:27that stress and its impact on the brains
15:29of especially sens genetically sensitive
15:32kids that's what inherited that's what's
15:34inherited is the
15:35sensitivity but but if there was only
15:37the sensitivity and optimal conditions
15:40they never have ADHD so it's not the
15:43ADHD that's inherited it's the
15:44sensitivity now that's the good news
15:47because if if you were a parent with a
15:48kid with ADHD and if I was the doctor
15:51yeah and I said to you madam you got
15:53your kids got this genetic condition
15:55brain biology nothing we can do about it
15:57but here's some medication
15:59or if I said to you uh Mel you know your
16:03child's got this condition Your Child's
16:05Very Sensitive very responsive to the
16:08environment and even now at age eight or
16:10age 16 or whenever if we can create
16:12different conditions the brain can still
16:14develop in different ways which message
16:17would you rather go with the second yeah
16:19of course this is a much more optimistic
16:21and much more
16:22science-based um attitude but
16:25unfortunately again given the dominance
16:28of Pharmaceutical companies and the
16:30biological
16:31mindedness what they call biological
16:33psychiaty which is just fixating on no
16:35biology and fixing it rather than
16:38looking at the conditions that shave
16:39topology we're very much stuck in a
16:41state where hundreds of thousands and
16:44millions of kids are being medicated and
16:46which and I'm not against medications I
16:48prescribed them I've taken them but
16:50they're not the answer what's
16:53fascinating is that when you really wrap
16:54your brain around it it makes a lot of
16:55sense and I'm sure you're familiar with
16:58that metaphor it's not the most elegant
17:00metaphor that
17:02the genetics loads the gun yeah but the
17:07environment that pulls the trigger which
17:09means you come into this world
17:11predisposed to certain things but it's
17:13the environment that either deactivates
17:15or activates what you're predisposed to
17:17exactly so that makes perfect sense and
17:20the other thing that makes perfect sense
17:21in terms of my lived experience yeah is
17:24being diagnosed with ADHD late in life
17:27yeah and also having a son yeah and two
17:30daughters that have ADHD yeah we were in
17:35Boston in a very competitive public
17:37school system in the go go go both
17:40spouses working running to the club
17:42sports doing this doing that busy busy
17:44busy busy busy yeah when we moved to
17:47Southern Vermont uhhuh open face amazing
17:51things change you change that's what I'm
17:54saying because the environment changes
17:56and if you just think about being on vac
17:59yeah you leave the go go go go of your
18:03dayto day and your work and your Social
18:05and all that stuff and you step away to
18:07a space that typically has a little bit
18:08more open space yeah and a different
18:11pace to your life you change that's
18:14right and so I feel because I was about
18:17to ask you well why does this matter to
18:18know this but I feel that it matters
18:21deeply because if environmental
18:24conditions can shape your brain as a
18:27child and we know that the brain
18:29develops and grows and changes through
18:30neuroplasticity through your entire life
18:33yeah then environmental changes I
18:36suppose also help you change and address
18:40these conditions absolutely and
18:43so when a family with ADHD child would
18:47come to me once I had this
18:49recognition I would say well we can
18:51consider medication in the short term if
18:53we need to but it's not the first step
18:55it's never should be the only step can
18:58we look at the family atmosphere can we
19:00look at the relationship between the
19:02parents can we look at the stresses on
19:04the family can you understand the
19:06child's behavior in a way that doesn't
19:08blame the child because these kids tend
19:10to be blamed a lot for how they behave
19:13now we talk about this phrase acting out
19:16kids are acting out which usually means
19:18they're being obstreperous Oppositional
19:20Defiant or non-cooperative or rude or
19:23something it means they're not doing
19:25what the parent wants them to do yeah
19:26yeah but let's look at the phrase acting
19:27out is English meaning we act something
19:31out when we don't have the language to
19:32say it in words so in the game charades
19:35we not allowed to speak what do you have
19:37to do act it out you have to act out
19:39these kids behaviors are simply acting
19:41out their emotional needs and Dynamics
19:43it's up to the parents to understand
19:45that rather than just to respond or
19:47react to the behavior in a controlling
19:49or punitive way let's understand what is
19:52being acted out which is one of the
19:55reasons I wrote that book is I want
19:57parents to understand what is is being
19:58acted out in his child's behavior and if
20:01you change the relationship to the child
20:03the child's Behavior will change so it's
20:04not Behavior control it's actually
20:07promoting different conditions that'll
20:11support the child's healthy development
20:13you know this reminds me of something
20:14that's
20:15always really just made me feel very
20:21heartbroken about the state of society
20:24in the world particularly in the United
20:26States and that is when I was going
20:29through this experience where my husband
20:31and I were having our son go through the
20:35process of all the evaluations the
20:37school kept saying this is behavioral
20:38behavior and we were like I don't think
20:40so I don't think so yeah and so we were
20:43in a position to be able to have him
20:46tested here in Boston yeah at Mass
20:49General outside the school yeah and just
20:54three years prior we would not have been
20:56able to afford to do that I understand
20:59and that diagnosis and understanding
21:02that his brain and the way that he
21:04learned and the development of his brain
21:07was just different that's right and
21:10changed the trajectory of his life and
21:12my life and before I did what I do now
21:17my earlier in my career I was a public
21:19defender in Manhattan yeah I read that
21:21doing criminal defense work yeah
21:24the
21:26statistics of people who are
21:28incarcerated yeah with ADHD yes with
21:32ADHD with learning differences who were
21:35never diagnosed that's who when you
21:37trace it back to what you're saying
21:39childhood conditions a parent who is
21:41absent chronic racism which is a form of
21:45trauma yeah it
21:47makes very depressing and sad and unfair
21:51sense absolutely and I think a lot about
21:54the fact that it's simply because we
21:56were able to at that moment in our lives
21:59yeah to be able to afford a test yeah
22:03that sent him in One Direction when kids
22:05who don't have that are sent in a
22:08different one yeah we actually hurting
22:10people for having been hurt yes and then
22:13they act thought that hurt and then we
22:15blame them for it rather don't
22:17understand what that's all about let me
22:19say something else the diagnosis doesn't
22:21explain anything what do you mean the
22:23diagnosis doesn't mean anything so male
22:25or gab or have ADHD how do we know well
22:29they absent minded they have poor
22:30impulse regulation and they're
22:32hyperactive why are they absent minded
22:35and have course uh uh um UL regulation
22:39and why do they have H activity because
22:41they have ADHD how do we know they have
22:43ADHD because they're hyperactive they
22:46tune out and they have Ros control why
22:49do they it's circular yes it's not an
22:52explanation it's a
22:54description and we may and we mistake
22:57Medical practice tends to mistake
23:01descriptions for explanations they're
23:03not if you want to know why they ha have
23:06hyperactive or lack impulse regulation
23:09or tend to tune not you got to look at
23:11their
23:12lives as that as those lives acted on
23:15their genes that's the explanation the
23:18diagnosis describe something but it
23:20doesn't explain
23:22anything but understanding this helps
23:25you also understand the role that
23:27environment oh and how this happened I
23:30think descriptions are helpful we just
23:32mustn't mistake them for explanations
23:35that's all that makes a lot of sense you
23:36know you mentioned addiction yeah and
23:40there is a lot of research that shows a
23:43direct link between ADHD and addiction
23:47yeah and what does your research and
23:50experience show about your childhood
23:53experience and conditions yeah and the
23:55connection to addiction so for for 12
23:58years I worked in Vancouver British
24:01Columbus downtown east side which is
24:03North America's most concentrated area
24:05of drug use we have more drug users
24:07there in a few squadb radius than
24:09anywhere in the states or anywhere else
24:10in Canada in fact anywhere in Europe wow
24:14so I was there for 12 years and um a
24:18significant percentage of my patients
24:19clearly at ADHD that had not been
24:21diagnosed now let's look at the
24:25commonalities first of all both addicts
24:27and people with ADHD lack impulse
24:29control like somebody said about
24:31addiction is that the problem is not
24:33free will not lack of free no the
24:36problem is in addiction is not lack of
24:39free will but lack of a free won lack of
24:42a free won't won't oh they have nothing
24:45to say no with because that circuit we
24:47didn't
24:48develop okay number one number two
24:52addictions all work on the dopamine
24:54system which is what is affected in ADHD
24:57as well so stimulus addicts like crystal
25:00meth addicts cocaine addicts um nicotine
25:04addicts um caffeine addicts they're
25:07literally boosting their dopamine levels
25:10which is precisely what's the issue in
25:12ADHD is as well so if you look at the
25:15studies something like a good 30% or
25:18more of s and addicts actually are
25:21diagnosable with
25:22ADHD but again this is this is studied
25:25and reported but not much is done with
25:28with it in medical
25:30practice furthermore all addictions no
25:34matter what they are they work on the
25:36dopamin circuitry so that I will Define
25:39addiction for you okay as manifested in
25:42any behavior in which a person finds
25:45temporary relief for pleasure and
25:47therefore craves but then suffers
25:49negative consequences as a result of and
25:52doesn't give up despite the harm so
25:55craving pleasure relief in the
25:57short-term harm
25:58inability to give it up that's what an
26:00addiction is now let me just go sideways
26:03a little bit okay let me ask you a
26:05question and you've already answered it
26:06but according to that norce said didn't
26:09say anything about drugs I said any
26:11Behavior yeah no if I speak to a room of
26:14a thousand people and I give that
26:16definition and I say according to that
26:18definition which is not
26:20controversial if you ever had an
26:22addictive pattern in your life just
26:24raise your hand and out of
26:261,999 yes well raise their hands and
26:28there's one liar who won't you know but
26:30basically it's almost everybody now
26:33here's the second
26:36question and I don't care what your
26:37addictive patterns were whether whether
26:40they were to alcohol which you mentioned
26:43um or to whatever else no what was wrong
26:45with it but what was right about it what
26:49did it give you in the short term that
26:51you wanted so what did it give you oh
26:53well with alcohol it was like a sense of
26:55belonging and relief and it was a way to
26:57turn turn my brain off okay and to
27:00escape okay when do people need to
27:02escape when they're stressed when
27:03they're suffering yeah okay so the
27:06addiction wasn't a disease that you had
27:09it wasn't your primary problem it was an
27:11attempt to solve the problem of
27:13emotional pain and
27:16isolation so my mentor under addiction
27:18is don't ask why the addiction ask why
27:20the
27:21pain and if you want to understand the
27:23pain look at the person's life rather
27:26than just their genes
27:29okay and so both people are addicted and
27:34people who ADHD often share these genes
27:38for sensitivity which means they suffer
27:40more when circumstances aren't right and
27:43so they're both more obviously those
27:45conditions will go together and
27:47furthermore to go back to
27:49dopamine the shopping addict the
27:51gambling addict the pornography addict
27:53the social media addict the social media
27:55and I have had my behavior addiction the
27:56gaming addiction addict
27:58business you know what they're after
28:00they're after hit of dopamine in the
28:02brain which they get through seeking
28:04that behavior and then you feel bad
28:06though that you did it well yeah and I
28:08had my behavior addictions but what I'm
28:10saying is it's all based partly on the
28:13dopamine circuitry and which didn't
28:15develop which didn't develop the way it
28:17should have so because of your childhood
28:19exactly so now you have to get your
28:20dopamine H through pornography and if
28:22you do brain scans on pornography
28:24addicts they get multiple spikes of
28:26dopamine hits in their brain when
28:28they're just like a drug addict yeah
28:30yeah so so what do you do with this
28:32information because it makes perfect
28:34sense like I don't I I I don't know how
28:36this is would be controversial it makes
28:38absolutely perfect sense well how do you
28:41what do you do if you're listening to
28:42this and you either you yourself are
28:46recognizing this is you or you're like
28:48you are describing my spouse or my adult
28:51child or my parent or whomever in my
28:54life like what do you do with this
28:56particular information of the con
28:58between childhood conditions and
28:59development and
29:01ADHD and addiction may I just say one
29:04more thing about the brain please yeah
29:07opiates okay so people get addicted to
29:10heroin or Oxycontin or deloted
29:13Hydromorphone or Codine or whatever you
29:15know fentin unfortunately which is a
29:17very dangerous one um these are opiates
29:21they come from the Opium plant in
29:23Afghanistan or they human manufactured
29:27copies
29:29of the same molecule
29:31now why do and it's responsible for a
29:34lot of debts in this country now why do
29:38opiates why does a plant from
29:41Afghanistan work in the human brain here
29:44in the states I don't know well because
29:47the opiate molecule we have receptors
29:50for it in our
29:51brains which means we have our internal
29:54opiate
29:56system this is just pure your brain
29:58science and the opiate system it's
30:00called endorphins endorphin means
30:03endogenous internal morphine like
30:06substance so we have an opiate system in
30:08our bodies which affects many functions
30:11in our body from the gut to the immune
30:12system
30:14but what do it do what do they do in the
30:17brain if we understand opiate addiction
30:19we have to understand what do endorphins
30:21do in the human uh trajectory first of
30:25all they provide pain
30:26relief both physical and emotional pain
30:29relief our internal endorphins do that
30:32we have to have pain in life because
30:34without pain we don't survive because we
30:35can hurt ourselves but we also have pain
30:37relief so endorphins relieve pain but
30:40not just physical pain also emotional
30:42pain because the part of the brain where
30:45people experience physical pain the
30:47suffering of physical pain it's also
30:49where they experience the suffering of
30:51emotional pain so the endorphins the
30:53opiates work there that's their first
30:56role the second second role along with
30:59dopamine is to give you a sense of
31:01pleasure Elation and joy but that's
31:04rather important in human life because
31:06human life is difficult so we have to
31:08have some expectation of pleasure joy
31:10relief that's what the opiates do that's
31:12the second thing they do the third thing
31:15they do they facilitate the Little Thing
31:17Called
31:18Love
31:19endorphin help to feel as connected to
31:22other people and particularly they help
31:26feel parent connected to their kids
31:29without which the child doesn't
31:31survive and if you take little animals
31:34and you knock out their op receptors
31:36they will not call for their mothers on
31:38separation what would that do to them it
31:41would kill them in the wild so that's
31:43how important the opiates are now who
31:46are these people that develop opiate
31:48addictions people whose lives have
31:51undermined their op circuitry and at had
31:54a sex trade worker in the downtown east
31:56side of Vancouver I have what did the
31:58Heron do for you she said the first time
32:00I did Heron it felt like a warm soft
32:03hug so just like the alcohol which gave
32:06you more sense of belonging it gave her
32:08a sense of being loved a sense of
32:10warmth that's why people get addicted is
32:13because they suffered that early pain
32:15and that're trying to escape from and
32:17because their brain circuitry was
32:20affected by adverse conditions so that
32:23these circus didn't develop optimally
32:25now they have to substitute
32:28you know so that's that's the that's a
32:30shinny on addiction it's not an
32:32inherited disease it's a response to the
32:35environment and it's not genetic
32:37contrary to what 99% of Physicians
32:40believe the reason why this is so
32:42important is because there is so much
32:45shame and self-blame yeah when you have
32:50an addiction yeah or you have something
32:52that you're struggling with like ADHD
32:54and when you understand the brain
32:56circuitry and the connection to brain
32:59development and human development and
33:02childhood conditions and experiences and
33:04how that has a direct impact yeah on the
33:06working and wiring of the functioning of
33:08your brain yeah you can separate
33:12yourself as a human being that's right
33:14from the thing that caused this that's
33:16the whole point and then that allows you
33:18from that moment of separation and
33:21Detachment and objectivity to go oh wait
33:23a minute I'm not to blame for this
33:26that's right this is a Circ
33:28and a conditioning problem it's my
33:30responsibility and now it's my
33:31responsibility exactly yeah to do what I
33:35need to do with this yeah to heal it and
33:38make it better exactly right and and to
33:40go back to your question about now what
33:42do we do with this
33:43information if your parents if you are
33:46parents of a child who's been diagnosed
33:49with say ADHD M then make a considered
33:54medic decision about whether you want to
33:55K medicated or not medications can
33:57sometimes help sometime they C side
33:59effects no child should be forced to be
34:01on medication cu no child at any age
34:04should be get the message that they're
34:06only acceptable to the adults when their
34:08brain is sedated you don't want to give
34:10that message to any child but they can
34:12help sometimes to mitigate symptoms MH
34:16they do nothing for brain development in
34:17the long term so then the question is
34:20can we create in this family better
34:22conditions for that child's brain
34:25to develop in more optimal ways and yes
34:28we can and that has a lot to do with the
34:30emotional atmosphere in the family and
34:33the degree of understanding and
34:34connection not love because that's
34:36already there but they actually
34:38understanding and connection between the
34:40parents and the child and I mean that
34:43book's been out 25 years and I've been
34:44told by so often that it totally changed
34:47the family just to read that book you
34:49know and it totally changed their
34:50children well it's very empowering
34:52because I think if you're the person
34:53struggling with the addiction or ADHD or
34:56a condition like that you feel deficient
34:59you
35:00feel that you've done something wrong
35:03and you can never heal while you're
35:06punishing yourself at the same time and
35:08the world is punishing you yes teachers
35:10are punishing you uh true your parents
35:12are are are are exasperated with you yes
35:15you know when it comes to treating
35:17addiction then
35:20um it's very complex but the person
35:24again needs to understand there's
35:26nothing wrong with them they weren't
35:28born with any kind of disease that
35:30addiction is a perfectly normal response
35:32to abnormal circumstances I mean look at
35:34all the veterans who are traumatized and
35:36they become alcoholics or opio attics
35:38and then there's the opposite study
35:40about the veterans from Vietnam yeah who
35:43were using opioids in Vietnam but then
35:46came home to a supportive environment
35:49exactly and were not addicted exactly I
35:52quote that study in my book on addiction
35:54because it's such a Salient fact in fact
35:57it's been done with laboratory rats you
36:00know where they took laboratory rats and
36:04exposed them to different their
36:05environmental
36:07conditions and they tried to get them
36:09addicted to opioids now those rats that
36:11were stretched and isolated and and and
36:14and under adverse conditions they very
36:16easily became addicted to opioids the
36:18rats had good conditions you couldn't
36:20even make them addicted to opas doesn't
36:22matter how much you gave them but the
36:24the main thing is is that if the
36:26environment is is actually creating the
36:29conditions in your brain and body yeah
36:31for addiction and ADHD then the
36:33environment is a huge piece of you
36:35healing this and growing in new ways and
36:39figuring out new adaptations for how to
36:42heal well and I think it's not an
36:44individual process it should be for the
36:46most part it should be you need the
36:48social help that's what the 12 step
36:49groups are I have my critiques of them
36:53but the 12 Steps themselves I think are
36:55wonderful and the group process is
36:57wonderful where people can share
36:59themselves and be heard compassionately
37:01and not be shamed they can declare their
37:04so-called dysfunctions and be accepted
37:07you know so so I think it's not just an
37:09individual process but I think what's
37:12missing from the 12 sub GRS
37:13unfortunately is awareness of trauma
37:16which is interesting because Bill W the
37:19original fun was an abandoned
37:21child highly traumatized and for some
37:24reason trauma hasn't entered the
37:27conversation of the 12 step movement as
37:30much as I'd like to see it done but
37:33again healing should not be just seen as
37:35an individual process it should be seen
37:37as a social process and people that deal
37:40with
37:41addictions they need to understand
37:44trauma what do you think is missing from
37:46the conversation that women need to know
37:49when it comes to diagnosing and
37:51supporting women who are largely getting
37:55lat in life diagnoses of ADHD
37:58yeah I love to think here um I think
38:01what happens is when we get older they
38:03tend to get a bit less
38:06repressed and the tendencies that are in
38:09them that they've tried to kind of
38:11control in order to be acceptable and to
38:13fit in it becomes intolerable for them
38:17particularly pmen and posy it becomes a
38:20real chore for wom to to continue to fit
38:22The
38:23Stereotype in which they were molded so
38:26I think what whatever is in them is more
38:28likely to show
38:29up and I would say to them would I say
38:32to
38:33anybody get
38:35curious about what is being manifested
38:38in this
38:40condition you know in your book hungry
38:42ghosts you mention your own struggles
38:45yeah with addictions to praise even to
38:48classical music no not to the music
38:50Sorry to shopping for classical music oh
38:53there's a distinction yes I love the
38:56music but that doesn't make me an addict
38:58that just makes me a music lover it's
39:00the shopping I would drop
39:03$3,000 in a music store and go back two
39:05hours later because I had to get the
39:07next one typical addictive behavior so
39:09it's the it's the shopping that I was
39:12addicted to it's the not the having but
39:14to the acquisition and that's and you
39:17know what when I was in the classical
39:18music store I had no ADHD I had high
39:20dopamine levels I was focused I can
39:23almost
39:24remember which record did I buy in which
39:26store you know which CD that I so so
39:29just to make the distinction it's not
39:31the music it's the shopping I was
39:32addicted to I love that distinction
39:34because I can relate to it I think in
39:36the biggest moments of crisis in my life
39:38yeah like facing bankruptcy yeah
39:42literally about to lose it all if I had
39:43a tiny bit of money yeah I would go to
39:47the mall yeah as an escape yeah and I
39:51would say given that daily addiction
39:54whether it's the mom pouring a couple
39:56glasses of wine at
39:57or it is just scrolling for 3 hours or
40:01it is mindlessly shopping or whatever it
40:04may be what strategies have you found
40:07most effective in
40:11really either controlling or managing
40:14through these Tendencies or patterns of
40:17behavior that that so many of us have
40:19well here's where we have to make a
40:20distinction between drug addictions and
40:22behavior addictions because drug
40:24addictions are become a very significant
40:26chemical problem and and people go
40:29through withdrawal and that has to be
40:30managed and all that now the behavior
40:32addicts by the way also go through
40:34withdrawal but it's less noticeable like
40:36with my work addiction my work holism
40:38when I was at home I'd go through I'd be
40:40irritable and depressed that's
40:41withdrawal because the dopamine wasn't
40:43flowing you know so but obviously it's
40:46more easily manageable so I say two
40:49things um one is
40:52um let's understand let's look at the
40:55need that is serving in your life
40:58what is the need it is serving in your
41:00life yeah well Doom scrolling for me the
41:02need is to tune out no that's not the
41:05need what's the what is the need for
41:07tuning out serving in your life oh boy
41:10um scrolling out is oh I have no joy
41:13play or
41:16relaxation okay so you don't know how to
41:19um you're not comfortable with
41:21yourself you need to you can't just be
41:25you have to be doing and your attention
41:27to be external yeah but that goes back
41:29to Early
41:31Childhood it it means that you weren't
41:34comfortable and you develop that comfort
41:36with the self you didn't develop that
41:38sense of your own goodness and validity
41:41and so that when you're alone and you're
41:42not doing something there's distress and
41:45your mind is going all over the place
41:47yeah you know so that's the need that
41:49it's serving so then you say well it's
41:51meeting this need to escape from myself
41:55how can I get how can I learn to be with
41:56myself
41:58so what what techniques what what could
42:00I do and there's ways to do that I mean
42:03I I have many suggestions in my books
42:06but essentially it's recognizing the
42:08need that's being met not invalidating
42:10the need validating the need but
42:13recognizing that the behavior itself
42:16only temporarily suits it but it doesn't
42:18meet the need well I feel like I've been
42:20fixing the wrong problem because I'm
42:22focused on don't drink the drink don't
42:25pick up the phone and what you're saying
42:27is no no no you're like over here
42:29looking at this thing there's a deeper
42:30issue yeah about just learning to be
42:33with yourself about learning to be in
42:35the 5 to 700 p.m. time zone and and be
42:38okay with all that comes up yeah and
42:41know that you can move through it
42:44without pouring a drink that's the whole
42:46point there's nothing wrong with saying
42:48don't drink I mean all that it's only
42:49that it doesn't it doesn't deal with the
42:51fundamental need need so let's recognize
42:54the need those needs are valid your need
42:57for social contact or not being isolated
43:00and in your book when you experience
43:02certain degree of social isolation which
43:04you interpreted as rejection and your
43:08husband points out you're not being
43:09rejected they just you know something
43:10else but your childhood programming
43:12tells you that it's rejected it's true
43:14so does everything come back to our
43:16childhood yes pretty much that's when
43:19we're were shaped look have you ever had
43:21a puppy dog yes two okay well tell me
43:24about them I mean how you treat that
43:25puppy will not not Define mind to a
43:28significant degree what kind of creature
43:30they're going to be it's true yeah well
43:32this human beings are infinitely more
43:34complex than puppy
43:36dogs and it's totally true so what I'm
43:39saying is recognize the need validate
43:42the need but then ask the question okay
43:45how can I meet that need in ways that
43:47are not
43:48harmful one of the things that you're
43:50talking a lot about is the connection
43:53between childhood conditions and
43:55experiences yeah how they shape you and
43:58the significant rise in autoimmune
44:01disorders and diseases in women you know
44:04the 80% of people 80% of autoimmune
44:06disease which are diseases where the
44:08immune system attacks the body that is
44:10supposed to protect and can you just
44:12what are a few examples of an autoimmune
44:14disease multiple sclerosis rheumato
44:17arthritis systemic lupus probably
44:20fibromyalgia chronic fatigue ulcer of
44:23colitis Chon's disease forms of
44:25psoriasis um
44:27autoimmune eczema um Scleroderma I could
44:32go on and on there's about 100 or so of
44:34these and 80% of them happen to women
44:38why well so in my medical practice I
44:42began to notice and here's my advantage
44:44over my specialist colleagues is that
44:48they know a lot more about certain body
44:49parts and systems as they should but
44:51they don't know the
44:53patient I knew people before they got
44:55sick and I knew them in their context of
44:58their families of origin and the m and
44:59and and the extended family very often
45:03so I got to see who got sick and who
45:04didn't and when I was in palot of care
45:06again I saw who ended up in P of care
45:09and who didn't and these people had four
45:12significant
45:13characteristics one is they tended to
45:16put other people's emotional needs ahead
45:18of their own and they tended to ignore
45:20their own number one number two they
45:24tended to
45:25identify with rules Duty role and
45:28responsibility rather than the needs of
45:30the self number three they tended to be
45:33very nice which means they repressed
45:35healthy anger the healthy anger is a
45:38boundary defense and these tend people
45:41tend to be very nice and number four
45:44these people tended to believe that
45:47they're responsible for other people
45:48feel which is a point that you address
45:51in your book let them and that they they
45:55had just believe that there was never
45:56disappointed anybody mhm now those um
46:01beliefs lead you to not saying no to the
46:05demands of the world and you're
46:06constantly taking on stuff and stress
46:08and other people stress you get stressed
46:11that stress undermines the immune system
46:13which then turns against you now in this
46:15and I could explain the physiology of it
46:17and by the way people because the immune
46:21system and the hormonal apparatus and
46:24the nervous system and the emotional
46:26system
46:27are one system they're not separate
46:30they're wired together in a whole lot of
46:32chemical and neurological ways I'm not
46:35making this up this is science science
46:38is called psychon Immunology psychology
46:40and neurology
46:42immunology and endocrinology the
46:44hormones it's all one system people that
46:47repress healthy anger they're
46:49suppressing their immune system
46:52biologically no if you understand that
46:55it's all one system
46:57and if you ask why well what is the role
47:00of healthy anger it's a boundary defense
47:04what is the role of the immune system
47:05it's a boundary defense it's meant to
47:08let in what is good and nurture and keep
47:10up what is toxic and dangerous when you
47:12suppressing your emotions you're also
47:15messing with immune system because it's
47:17all one it's almost like you're training
47:21your immune system not to protect you
47:24from the outside that's what happens and
47:27or to turn against you like like anger
47:29that you repress turns against you in
47:30the form of depression or self-loathing
47:32the same way that your negative thoughts
47:35where you think you're to blame for all
47:37of the stuff going on when you're a
47:38child that are not your responsibility
47:41turns into the negative selft talk
47:42that's aimed against you same way the
47:44immune system turns against you wow
47:46that's the whole point that makes so
47:47much sense well physiologically is just
47:49a fact no why is it women cuz who in
47:52this culture is programmed to always
47:55looking after everybody El's emotional
47:56needs take on everybody's stresses um
47:59identify with their duties and their
48:01role um be nice all the time not be
48:04angry in a healthy way and to take
48:06responsibly for other people's feelings
48:07it's women it's not a gender issue it's
48:11a a cultural issue and so and the and of
48:16course the more stresses the women
48:18experiences the greater the risk of
48:20autoimmune disease so if you look at
48:22minority women they have a higher
48:24percentage because they women and
48:26they're minority in I was just about to
48:28ask you whether or not there were
48:30studies for minority women and people
48:32that are in first
48:34responder many studies many studies and
48:37in Canada it makes sense in Canada an
48:41indigenous woman has six times the rate
48:43of rheumato arthritis than somebody else
48:46and this is in a population that never
48:48used to have rheumato arthritis and by
48:50the way again are we blaming people here
48:52no we're not cuz we have to look at what
48:54happened here what happened here is the
48:56child is born with all these emotions
48:58wired into their
49:00brains the child has two big needs here
49:03the need for attachment for belonging
49:05for being held for being accepted
49:07supported and so on that's a need that
49:09you have it's not negotiable without it
49:12there's an infant as a young child you
49:13can you die yeah so that's one need but
49:18you have another need as well which I
49:19call authenticity which means being
49:21connected to your emotions and you got
49:23feelings now in any audience when I ask
49:26people people have you had the
49:28experience of having a strong God
49:30feeling about something ignoring it and
49:32being sorry afterwards most people put
49:35their hands up you probably would
49:38no God feelings were programmed into us
49:40by Evolution we evolved out in nature
49:43for millions of years hundreds of
49:45thousands of years we lived out in
49:46nature how long does any creature in
49:48nature survive if they don't pay
49:50attention to the good feelings uh not
49:52until the end of the day you're you're
49:54goner that's point so we there two need
49:57attachment and authenticity being
50:00connected to ourselves now if the child
50:03gets the
50:04message that they're being authentic
50:06with their emotions and so on they're
50:08not acceptable to the environment guess
50:10what get in the contest between oh
50:13you're got you get trained to not trust
50:14your instincts yeah and you're trained
50:16to disconnect and you're trained to push
50:17down your feelings so we give up for
50:20authenticity for the sake of attachment
50:22now in your book there's an example of
50:24this guy who's about to get married yes
50:26and all these misgivings yes and then
50:29he's afraid of what everybody else will
50:30think yes and you tell and and you're
50:32wishing he would say no to the wedding
50:34yes you know what's going on he's stuck
50:36in this tension between attachment which
50:39is a need to be acceptable and
50:41authenticity being
50:43himself women are caught in that trap in
50:45the society so are many men of course
50:48it's not just a gender issue but
50:50overwhelmingly it's women who have to
50:52choose the attachment they're being
50:54acceptable over authenticity that's why
50:57they have much more autoimmune disease
50:59wow and often I'd say for a lot of us we
51:04choose
51:05attachment rather than staying connected
51:07to ourselves that's the whole point as
51:09as a child you have no choice the
51:11question is as an adult can we develop
51:13that choice do I have to keep choosing
51:16the attachment over the authenticity and
51:18I'm telling you I know people with I
51:21just finished leading a workshop at k h
51:24nearby here two women came up to me and
51:26said reading your book when the body
51:29says no cured my
51:31Ms because I began to say no now I know
51:34so many examples of that and not only I
51:36other doctors as well well you also hear
51:38doctors say that all of these autoimmune
51:41dis disorders diseases whatever you want
51:42to call them flare up in moments of
51:44stress of course in moments of overwhelm
51:46and the main thing that they're treated
51:49with is steroids yes
51:52and take better care of yourself oh yeah
51:54and rest no but but here's it's
51:56interesting typically for these
51:58conditions we give
52:00cortisol a stress hormone yeah yeah like
52:04for if you go into the Dermatology with
52:06an inflamed skin they're going to give
52:08you steroid cream cortisol if you go to
52:10a gastroenterologist with an inflamed
52:12intestine they'll at some point give you
52:15cortisol stress hormone if you go with
52:17an inflamed nervous system multiple
52:18sclerosis they can give you a stress
52:20hormone cortisol I could go on but we
52:23never ask ourselves gosh we're giving
52:25stress hormones to people people is it
52:27possible that stress may have something
52:29to do with their condition so doctors
52:32know that in cases of acute stress that
52:34can flare up a disease that's clear
52:36right what they don't recognize is those
52:39emotional patterns that I'm talking
52:40about which stress people chronically
52:42but in less dramatic ways because what's
52:45it like to always having to repress your
52:47anger to be pleasing other people that's
52:50the whole point and that's what the
52:51stress that I think often instigates
52:55You' abandoned yourself and now you're
52:56body function is abandoning you that's
52:58the whole point is there good news here
53:00yeah the good news is if you change
53:01these patterns you can actually
53:03significantly affect the course of your
53:04illness and I know lots of examples of
53:07that how can
53:10someone find the root cause of the
53:13emotional pain or the like how do you
53:18begin the process of healing and because
53:20you've now painted this landscape that
53:22helps us really understand the
53:23connection between childhood experiences
53:26and condition
53:27how that shapes your body your brain
53:29function your physiology your immune
53:31system and how continued environmental
53:34stress and continued abandonment of self
53:39for the sake of being accepted to other
53:41PE by other people
53:43yeah when you see all
53:46this it's incredibly
53:50empowering what is one step that you
53:53would want someone to take if they're
53:54having an Awakening or they've been sent
53:56this episode by somebody who loves them
53:58and they're like this is me okay so
54:01let's take one example simple one prior
54:05to your
54:06Awakening and transformational
54:09journey um that you under undertook
54:12sometime in your 40s MH um how easy did
54:16you find it to say no to other people's
54:18expectations oh I couldn't okay so you
54:21couldn't say no no all right so I ask
54:24people this question where in your life
54:25do you have difficult saying no uh it
54:28shows up in two areas work and in
54:30personal life okay so you couldn't say
54:32no the second question I asked people
54:34then is what's the impact on you of your
54:37difficulty saying
54:38no it's exhausting I uh don't like my
54:42own behavior yeah so it's this shame
54:45lack of control lack loss of control
54:47loss of control by the way anger all
54:50blaming other people and making it their
54:51fault that I can't say no l that's right
54:55and uh loss of control is one of the
54:57most significant triggers for stress by
54:59the way according to the stress
55:01literature well that makes sense because
55:03we have a biological hardwired need for
55:05safety exactly which we try to achieve
55:08by controlling everything and everyone
55:09around us only because we learned in
55:11childhood that if we didn't there'd be
55:12no
55:13safety if we had learned that there was
55:15safety we would trust the world a lot
55:17more and we wouldn't have to
55:18control so nobody's a control freak
55:21nobody's born a control freak it's a
55:24adaptive trait is what that is but
55:26here's what I'm saying so that going
55:28through this exercise so what's the
55:30impact You' Identify some impacts could
55:32also be frequent colds illness and so on
55:35the third question is what's your belief
55:39that keeps you from saying no so when
55:40you had trouble saying no what was the
55:42story what was the belief if that I
55:44would get fired from my job and then we
55:45wouldn't be able to pay our bills and
55:47then we would lose our house and then on
55:49and on and on and on and on or they
55:51wouldn't like me or my mother would be
55:53mad at me or you know this would happen
55:55or that would happen the weight of the
55:57world on my shoulders
56:00exactly so then the fourth question is
56:04how did you develop that story that if I
56:07say no I'll be rejected how where did
56:10you learn that I'm sure for me even
56:13though I don't quite remember yeah it
56:15was that I had to it was my job to make
56:18sure everybody was okay in the house and
56:20everybody was happy in other words you
56:22learned it and that made me feel safe in
56:24other words you learned it when you're
56:25two or three or four years old or five
56:27yes and now you're adult as you're
56:29saying my book let that that's why this
56:32has been such a game Cher because when I
56:34say let them I separate someone else's
56:38emotions and their expectations from
56:40what's my responsibility you're choosing
56:41authenticity over attachment is what
56:43you're doing oh I love that you're right
56:46I'm staying connected to myself that's
56:48the whole game that's what I'm talking
56:49about here so once you understand that
56:54you learned the story when you were
56:56hypnotized into it as a by the way three
56:59or four year olds are in hypnotic States
57:01that's why they believe that when
57:02they're playing monsters they're
57:04actually monsters you know so those
57:07hypnotic influences are really powerful
57:09they stay with us so then the next
57:11question is who would you be if you
57:13didn't believe that you could that you
57:15mustn't say no who would you believe who
57:17would you be then free
57:19exactly do that exercise once a week
57:23five questions to Freedom it's in the
57:25mythal normal Des a CH on it there's a
57:27sixth question what is the sixth
57:29question where you're not saying yes oh
57:31my God everywhere to free time to yeah
57:35play yeah to Joy to creativity
57:38creativity to to rest well that not
57:42saying yes is as harmful as the not
57:45saying no so those two little words just
57:48that little exercise you do that once a
57:50week it changes people's lives you just
57:53F the the sixth question yeah what are
57:56you not saying yes to that one made my
57:59heart contract a little mhm okay because
58:03that's where I really
58:05saw truly what's what I'm missing out on
58:08yeah where are you not saying yes to
58:12play um and rest I mean I'm much better
58:17than I used to be as a matter of fact
58:19I've told the story many times but 5
58:21years ago I was in London giving a talk
58:23on my book when the body says no and
58:27I was very articulate and Adept on stage
58:31but personally I was irritated I was
58:33working too hard I was driving myself
58:35too hard I was not kind to my wife and
58:38she said to me her name is Ray and she
58:40said buddy you written the book called
58:42when the body says no now you better why
58:44one called when the wife says
58:46no and you know so part of what's helped
58:50me drop these patterns and I'm still
58:52working on it is cuz I love this
58:55relationship I it and I I don't want to
58:58be this person who's not saying yes I'm
59:01an 80 you know I don't again when you
59:05look at the top five regrets of dying
59:07people you know that book that I
59:08mentioned in another conversation this
59:10was written by a paliative care nurse
59:13who worked with dying people the top
59:15regret was that I didn't have the
59:17courage to be myself MH and the third
59:19regret was I didn't have the courage to
59:21express my
59:22emotions and the fifth was and I Ed my
59:26friends the fourth and then the fifth
59:29one I think was I I I wish I hadn't
59:31worked so hard I wish I had played more
59:33I wish I had given more scope for the
59:36creativity and playfulness and and
59:37childlike self that I am you know so I'm
59:40still looking for that one uh to develop
59:43it more um I'm a whole lot better than I
59:45used to
59:46be well we're a whole lot better than we
59:49used to be yeah because of what we're
59:50learning from you well thank you gabber
59:54mate wow
59:57any final things you want to
1:00:00say everybody's got the capacity to heal
1:00:03as long as there's Consciousness there's
1:00:04the capacity to heal and um for some
1:00:08people it's tougher because they don't
1:00:09have the resources but you know you can
1:00:13go on YouTube lots of my Talks on
1:00:16YouTube people have told me that changed
1:00:18their lives to the better doesn't cost a
1:00:20penny and not just my Talks by the way
1:00:23Talks by other wonderful teachers um
1:00:26some of my colleagues some spiritual
1:00:28teachers um that doesn't cost any money
1:00:31to watch that you can take books out of
1:00:33the library that doesn't cost a penny
1:00:35and they can be very helpful you can um
1:00:38learn to meditate and be with yourself
1:00:41and observe your mind that can be very
1:00:43helpful there's free meditation
1:00:45instruction on on on the line or in many
1:00:48books um those people that can afford
1:00:52therapy if it's the right kind of
1:00:54therapy they can address these issues um
1:00:59they can connect with Nature Nature has
1:01:01got a huge healing capacity as our
1:01:03indigenous people really know we can
1:01:05learn a lot from them about connecting
1:01:07with nature those people that have the
1:01:09capacity to get out of the city and or
1:01:12even go to a park and connect with the
1:01:14plants and the trees and the flowers
1:01:16that sounds hokey but it's hugely
1:01:18healing um exercise uh giving your body
1:01:22what it needs eating the proper food if
1:01:25you can afford it and most people may
1:01:28not be afford the best foods but they
1:01:30could probably afford to eat better than
1:01:31they do if they paid attention to
1:01:33themselves so all those things are not
1:01:37inaccessible so in other words healing
1:01:40is possible it's avilable to all of us
1:01:43and it just takes the decision to embark
1:01:48on that path well you've empowered us to
1:01:50make the decision today yeah thank you
1:01:53thank you thank you well thank you you
1:01:56it's amazing to spend time with you yeah
1:01:58thanks there is so many people that I
1:02:01want to share this episode with I feel
1:02:04empowered and excited for you and so I
1:02:07just want to thank you for listening all
1:02:10the way to the end and sharing this with
1:02:12people that you love and I also wanted
1:02:14to be sure to tell you in case no one
1:02:15else tells you that I love you and I
1:02:18believe in you and I believe in your
1:02:20ability to create a better life and
1:02:23listening to this today is certain ly
1:02:26going to help you take the steps to
1:02:29create it and I will be waiting for you
1:02:32in the very next episode I'll see you
1:02:34there and I just want to acknowledge you
1:02:36on YouTube for watching all the way to
1:02:38the end this was extraordinary wasn't it
1:02:41I mean I wish I had had this information
1:02:4225 years ago but I'm so grateful that
1:02:47you have this information and I have
1:02:48this information now so thank you for
1:02:50sharing it thank you for watching all
1:02:52the way to the end and thank you for
1:02:53hitting subscribe it's my goal that 50%
1:02:56of the people that watch this channel
1:02:57are subscribers because it supports the
1:02:59show it tells our team that you love the
1:03:01content that we're putting out and it
1:03:03helps us bring you new videos every
1:03:05single day and speaking of new videos
1:03:08I'm sure you're thinking oh my gosh I
1:03:09love this what should I watch next Mel
1:03:11you should check this out you're going
1:03:13to absolutely love it it's the perfect
1:03:15thing to watch and I'm going to be
1:03:16waiting for you as soon as you hit play

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