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Dr. Edith Eva Eger: “The Choice” | Super Soul Sunday S9E11 | Full Episode | OWN — Transcript

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0:00today on Super Soul
0:02Sunday a transformative conversation on
0:06trauma resilience and Triumph with a
0:10remarkable women who survived the
0:12Unspeakable horrors of the Holocaust I
0:15am not a victim it's not my identity Dr
0:20Edith Eva eager is a Pioneer in the
0:22field of psychology teaching people how
0:25to use their pain to help them heal we
0:28have that possibility within us that we
0:32can really find a meaning in
0:36suffering we first met on the Oprah show
0:39and I'm so happy today to be here alive
0:41and turn my life into something useful
0:44that I can guide people from
0:46victimization to empowerment at age 90
0:50Dr eager wrote her first book The Choice
0:54embrace the possible her powerful
0:56message Rings true for me she writes
0:59that our painful experiences are not a
1:03liability they are a gift you have a
1:06choice now whether you pay attention of
1:09what you don't have or what you lost or
1:13find something that is still
1:15here I am forever changed by her story
1:19and I know you will be
1:24too I'm so excited to be talking to you
1:27even though we did almost like 21 years
1:30ago you were sitting in the audience yes
1:34yes yes yes and I was shaking I didn't
1:36know what I was going to say and but
1:39today it's different yes I'm just saying
1:43well God will tell my heart what to say
1:46absolutely and then I'll say it and then
1:48you'll say it and that's it that's right
1:50let God speak through you well you know
1:52we're sitting in a room Maya Angelo was
1:55my mentor and dearly beloved mother
1:58friend and these are all of the books
2:00from her bedroom that she willed to me
2:03so I call this Maya's room yes yes yeah
2:08she was a great teacher for people don't
2:09come to you they they send to you and
2:12yes I feel that way that yes she was
2:16absolutely s to me to so last year at
2:18age 90 you published your first book yes
2:22you waited till 90 to do
2:24it yes it's it's beautiful it's called
2:27the choice embrace the possible which
2:30has become an international now
2:32bestseller and you're now 91 yes and you
2:36know I said this on National Book Day in
2:39O magazine uh I think it's impossible to
2:42read your story and not to be forever
2:44changed by it oh how kind of you to say
2:47that yes yes
2:49yes born into a Hungarian Jewish Family
2:53in 1927 Edith eager's father Lewis was a
2:56tailor her mother Alona was a homemaker
3:00and civil
3:01servant she had two older sisters Clara
3:04a violin Prodigy and Magda a noted
3:08Beauty at the age of five Edith began
3:11studying ballet then took up gymnastics
3:15she even trained for the
3:17Olympics the family was living a life
3:20full of Hope for the future at 16 eth's
3:23World tragically changed in an
3:28instant not Nazi soldiers raided her
3:31home eventually sending the family on a
3:34cattle train to ALS schwitz Edith's
3:37sister Clara studying in Budapest was
3:40not
3:40captured upon arrival at the death camp
3:44Edith's parents were immediately sent to
3:47the gas chamber she never saw them
3:51again Edith and Magda endured grueling
3:54conditions while imprisoned at alwiz
4:00fleeing from Allied Forces the Nazis
4:03pushed the sisters and thousands of
4:05others to the brink of death on a March
4:07over 35
4:12miles on May 4th 1945 their Liberation
4:16came when they were rescued by American
4:18troops later Edith and Magda
4:21miraculously reunited with their sister
4:24Clara by 1949 Edith married she and her
4:29husband and Bella migrated to the United
4:31States barely speaking English together
4:35they rais their three
4:37children through sheer tenacity and will
4:41she earned her college degree a master's
4:44and ultimately her PhD and became a
4:46world-renowned psychologist at 91 she is
4:50still to this day working with trauma
4:55survivors your story is astonishing that
4:58you actually survive
5:00it's also a guide I would say and a road
5:03map to teach others how to heal from any
5:07kind of trauma yes cuz you took your
5:09greatest
5:10pain and turned it into a powerful tool
5:14for yourself is that correct we have it
5:16within us we have that possibility
5:19within us that we can really find the a
5:25meaning and suffering and to be able to
5:28turn it for an
5:31opportunity to discover something within
5:34us when never thought was possible and
5:37that's what aitz was all
5:40about Discovery to find the power within
5:43you yes so I love how you began on page
5:47nine saying I would love to help you
5:51discover how to escape the Concentration
5:54Camp of your own mind yes and become the
5:58person you were meant to be fre I would
6:01love to help you experience Freedom From
6:03the Past freedom from failures and fears
6:07freedom from anger and mistakes freedom
6:10from regret and unresolved grief and the
6:13freedom to enjoy the full Rich Feast of
6:18life we cannot choose to have a life
6:21free of hurt but we can choose to be
6:25free to escape the past no matter what
6:28befalls US and to embrace the possible I
6:32invite you to make the
6:35choice to be free because the more
6:38choices we
6:40have the less we
6:45be a victim of the past or even a
6:50hostage and a prisoner of the past and
6:53even you who experienced and survived
6:56alitz who experienced and survived the
6:59death March all of which we'll talk
7:01about later say we choose to be victims
7:06that victimization is something that
7:08happens to us but we choose to be
7:10victims how so yes because uh I am not a
7:16victim it's not my identity it what was
7:20done to me mhm and that is very
7:23important that it's not my identity that
7:26I'm a whole person who can have joy and
7:29passion today rather than living in the
7:34past and uh becoming
7:38unfortunately a prisoner and the hostage
7:41of the past and I think this is so
7:43important because so often when anyone
7:45is traumatized yes and you say there's
7:48no hierarchy in suffering so your trauma
7:51cannot be compared to someone else's
7:53trauma if it's trauma for you it's
7:55trauma and it's real exactly because
7:58when a woman comes to me and tells me
8:01that I was sexually abused but I don't
8:04know how to tell you because you were in
8:06aitz and my answer
8:08is you were more in aitz in a
8:12sense than I do because I knew the enemy
8:16and you
8:18didn't that is so powerful isn't it yes
8:22so powerful yes so your point is that
8:25you can choose to live in the world of
8:28calling your and then defining yourself
8:31as somebody as a victim or you can step
8:34out of that yes because you always find
8:36a victimizer when you are a victim yes
8:40and one thing we have to be sensitive of
8:43not to blame the victim yes because you
8:46know my mom didn't have a choice uh
8:49that's why I'm saying that uh you cannot
8:52be a victim without the
8:54victimizer and then you can blame
8:56someone and not take full responsibility
9:00well what I what I think is so important
9:02so valuable about your story is that you
9:07take us into the camps we get to
9:09experience your hunger your pain your
9:12sorrow your loss and yet you come out
9:16and write the story in order to do
9:19exactly what I just said to free other
9:22people who are in their own
9:24concentration camps in their own mind so
9:26it reminds me so much of VI frankl's
9:29book man search for meaning yes take us
9:32back to the day your family is leaving
9:36your home yes and your father is
9:38standing there yes looking through the
9:41door and the SS guard says to
9:47him yes we were having our last sedor
9:51and my father got up and kissed us on
9:54the head so we're just here after
10:00Passover and we were picked up and and
10:04taken to a brick Factory in Kasa Hungary
10:07MH and that was March
10:101944 do you remember what you were
10:13thinking when they loaded you all onto
10:15the train you know one of the things
10:17that struck me so in Ellie viel's book
10:21night when he talks about mosha the be
10:23who was coming through the town and
10:25trying to warn the people of what was
10:27happening in other parts of the the
10:29country and nobody would listen nobody
10:32would listen And So what had you heard
10:36and what did you expect when you got on
10:38the
10:39trains I had no
10:42idea where we're going what is happening
10:47nobody ever told us about
10:49aitz I remember when I was in aitz I
10:53always asked
10:55myself does anyone know I'm here I felt
10:59so thrown out mhm left out well it must
11:04have felt like because you were leading
11:06a quote normal life you were a dancer
11:10yes and you had had a I had purpose I
11:15had meaning I had a boyfriend who told
11:19me I had beautiful eyes and beautiful
11:21hands so so I had my
11:25curiosity I think that is amazing how
11:30curiosity will help you and help me I
11:35wanted to know what's going to happen
11:36next yes that's the kind of girl you
11:40were at that moment yes what's going to
11:41happen next yes yeah yes and so you get
11:46literally pulled plucked out of this
11:49life totally and put on the trains and
11:52you're on the trains for how long I
11:54stacked like cattle against each other
11:56long long time and that's when my mom
11:59hugged me and she said we don't know
12:02where we're going just remember no one
12:05can take away from you what you put here
12:07in your own mind once you get there
12:10there's this moment I had the privilege
12:13of visiting alsu Elle with Ellie vielle
12:18and in that moment when you walk through
12:20the gates you move to the left and you
12:22move to the right and as you come as
12:24you're in line at the gate the infamous
12:28Dr bangala yes the angel of death doctor
12:31was standing there and tell us what
12:34happened there my mom was in the middle
12:37and my Sister Magda on one side and I on
12:40the other
12:42side and then he asked is this your
12:45mother or is this your
12:50sister and I could never ever forgive
12:53myself that I said it's my
12:56mother so he pointed my mother there to
12:59go to the lab and I followed my
13:03mom and then he grabbed me and looked me
13:07in the eyes I never forget those eyes
13:10and he said in German I spoke German
13:14fluently that I'm going to see my mother
13:16very soon she's just going to take a
13:18shower and promptly threw me on the
13:21other side which meant life life so you
13:25think that my life was in Dr mangala's
13:27hand I think think God had a plan for me
13:30to be here with you today
13:34absolutely coming
13:36[Music]
13:44up hours after her parents were murdered
13:47at alitz in May of 1944 Edith was called
13:51upon to dance for Dr Joseph bangala he's
13:54the notorious Nazi officer known as the
13:56angel of death it was her mother's
14:00parting words Edith says that gave her
14:03the strength to perform she said to her
14:05daughter just remember no one can take
14:08away from you what you've put in your
14:13mind I closed my eyes and I pretended
14:18that the music was chovsky and I was
14:20dancing the Roma and Juliet at the
14:23budapes opera house so when I was there
14:26a couple years ago with so you're
14:28standing in the Barracks but in your
14:30imagination you at The Budapest oper
14:32house yes you in another world yes and
14:35then he gave me some bread which I
14:37shared with the girls and it's so
14:41interesting and
14:43Powerful how the sharing of that bread
14:46in that moment saved my life yeah many
14:49months later saved your life death much
14:52as you all are on the Death March and
14:54you were exhausted in faint and your
14:58back is broken
15:00when I was about to stop that the girls
15:03that I shared the bread with they formed
15:06a chair in their arms and They Carried
15:09me so I won't die isn't that amazing
15:12that the wor can bring out the best no I
15:16I you know what I just thought when I
15:19read that that's the reason why I it's a
15:22story that impacted me so deeply is
15:25because a little gesture of kindness
15:28yeah that you had made months ago yes
15:33when you were given a loaf of bread and
15:35you know that everybody else is starving
15:37you offered your some of your bread and
15:40that person comes along and says I'm
15:43going to help you because you gave me
15:45bread this is what I I I love uh reading
15:48and understanding that thank you for
15:50reading it so lovely than you say in my
15:54first weeks at alwoods I learned the
15:57rules of survival if you can steal a
16:00piece of bread from the guards you're a
16:02hero exactly but if you steal from an
16:04inmate you are disgraced totally you you
16:07die competition and domination get you
16:10nowhere cooperation is the name of the
16:13game exactly to survive is to transcend
16:16your own needs and commit yourself to
16:19someone or something outside yourself
16:22what I loved is that this there is there
16:24is a Rule of Order even in the worst of
16:28times times when people have been
16:30starved and beaten and you are watching
16:34your loved ones Go Up in Smoke on a
16:37daily basis that you still maintain a
16:41moral Center yes not only that but also
16:46um kindness and integrity yes was so
16:51important I work with families now and I
16:54write constitutions because if you don't
16:57have rules you going to have chaos right
17:01and so you're telling us that even
17:03within the barracks there were rules of
17:07of order kindness yes and cooperation
17:11cooperation yeah not competition not
17:15comption domination and was everybody
17:18that way cuz I would imagine that when
17:19you're at your hungriest and you're at
17:21your worst and you're you've been
17:23starved and demeaned and demoralized
17:27literally think the real came out there
17:31your genuine self your your true it
17:34reveals who you really are cuz you don't
17:37have any adornments you have no nothing
17:40to say I am of value you it was a place
17:44of
17:46Discovery your genuine true self whether
17:51you are a person who is a giver or a
17:54taker and you had to go beyond the M me
17:57me and commit ourselves to I I I I find
18:01it also a poignant moment
18:05when after your mother has gone to the
18:07left you and your sister go to the right
18:10and you're taken in and your heads are
18:12shaved that's the first thing they do
18:14completely completely your heads are
18:15shaped yes and you said she actually
18:18look like you know she asked me how do I
18:21look yes and this is what I tell people
18:23that you have a choice now whether you
18:26pay attention of what you don't have or
18:29what you lost or find something that is
18:32still here I realized that I became
18:35Magus mirror you were her mirror I was
18:39her mirror and I had a choice to tell
18:41her how she really really
18:44looked instead I said to her Magda you
18:47have beautiful eyes and I didn't see it
18:50when you had your hair all over the
18:53place I don't know how that came to me
18:57um sometimes I tell people if you want
18:59to say something if it's not kind don't
19:03say it mhm take a deep breath and ask
19:06you know what I'm going going to say
19:08right now and is it going to empower
19:11that person yes she's in front of me and
19:15I said what I thought would save her in
19:18that moment or would help her in that
19:19moment to go back to that quote to
19:22survive is to transcend your own needs
19:24and commit yourself to someone or
19:25something outside yourself I think that
19:28that having Magda
19:31there was a part of your will to stay
19:34alive and so was hers was it not we took
19:37care of each other she'll tell you she
19:40took care of me and I'm going to tell
19:42you I took care of her so who you going
19:45to listen to I think you're both right I
19:48think we're both right
19:50yes coming up
19:54[Music]
20:05tell me why so many people who came out
20:08of the multiple camps never wanted to
20:10speak of it again yes I I think because
20:15you thought once you were free now
20:17you're
20:18free people would go through the gate
20:22and then they would come
20:24back our selling man talks about
20:26beautifully and the learn helplessness
20:30theory that we didn't know what to do
20:32with freedom so now you're free so we
20:36would go back and sit down and not
20:39knowing so what now you know as I read
20:43that I thought I'm sure that happened to
20:45many slaves too many slaves
20:48unfortunately in our culture we don't
20:50have the voices to let us know exactly
20:53what happened and obviously no one is
20:55still living who lived through slavery
20:58however ever that had to be the case for
21:01so many people that you have been
21:03particularly if you've been a slave your
21:05entire life you now don't even know what
21:09to do with freedom and what that
21:10actually means now that surprised me
21:13when it came to people who had been
21:15victimized by the Holocaust had been
21:17survivors of the Holocaust because it
21:20hadn't been your whole life it had just
21:22been for you a couple of years we didn't
21:25know
21:27PTSD that was no such a thing we want it
21:30to be normal it must be you who have
21:34worked on your trauma extensively and
21:38now help other people to work on their
21:40trauma but I was thinking it must be
21:43jarring for you as an American now to
21:48see young children at the border being
21:51separated from their parents I have
21:55nightmares yes because you lived that I
21:58I have
21:59nightmares I still do have nightmares I
22:03want to do everything in my power to
22:06acknowledge that this is a country of
22:09immigrants and the enemy is not outside
22:12of us it's right here M I want to do
22:16everything in my power to see to it that
22:18we can unite well I think you're doing
22:20that I think this book and the words
22:24that you literally somehow were able to
22:27pour from your heart we able to dig into
22:30the bowels of your soul and pour these
22:33words right straight from your heart
22:36exactly you know those words are going
22:38to live with me and everyone who reads
22:40this book who has the privilege of
22:41reading your story it was very freeing
22:44for me and I thought I thought I was
22:45already pretty free but it just
22:47reaffirmed for me that no matter what is
22:51going on in my life or anyone who is
22:53listening or watching us right now you
22:56have the choice
22:59yes you have the choice you have the
23:01choice to really see the light and see a
23:06gift in
23:07everything everything has a gift in it
23:10so even in asage you could find that
23:13even in
23:15asit I could really truly found that
23:19part in
23:20me that the Nazis could throw me in the
23:25guest chamber any minute
23:28beat me torture me there's one thing
23:32they could never do is murder my spirit
23:36and that's what I bring that spirit that
23:40I discovered in a that I can turn to and
23:45you write the book for every person who
23:48is experiencing their own personal
23:52prison whether it be from a boss or from
23:55a relationship from a marriage from not
23:58being where you feel like you should be
24:00already at this particular time in your
24:02life expectations your expectations
24:06yes coming
24:09[Music]
24:19up on May 4th
24:211945 close to one year after being
24:24imprisoned by the Nazis an American
24:27soldier from the 71st infantry
24:30discovered Edith lying beneath a pile of
24:33dead bodies with a broken back typhoid
24:36fever pneumonia and puracy Edith was
24:40barely
24:42[Music]
24:44alive you you first of all discovered on
24:47a heap of bodies imagine this everyone
24:50listening to us now you're basically
24:54left for dead you were just about dead
24:56you had every single
24:59possible injury yes yeah I had five
25:03kinds of typhoid fever I was put in a
25:07hospital they put me in a cast and your
25:10back was broken my back was broken how
25:13are you were you standing and walking
25:15how do you do a death march with your
25:18Breer I you know it's
25:20amazing what can happen under certain
25:24circumstances that you never thought
25:27would be possible today yeah but you
25:29know we can see now but you don't know
25:31when you're in the midst of it that the
25:33hand of God is upon you I mean it's very
25:35hard to see in a concentration camp yes
25:38so that moment when you and your sister
25:41are on the Death March and I think
25:42you're walking up the stairs and there
25:45all these stories about what happens to
25:46you on the other side of the stairs
25:48people were saying what about those
25:50stairs on the other side you get thrown
25:52off on the other side you get shot yes
25:55yes and um the steps experience was in
26:01mous when we were walking up the steps
26:05and I saw nothing but body parts and
26:09blood and and I said well here I'm going
26:11to die mhm and if we were practically
26:14dead by then anyway I was I for days and
26:18your back is broken and you have fever
26:20today if I don't have lunch you know I
26:23think I'm going to
26:24die I think it was about two weeks we
26:27got
26:29nothing and I'm here to tell you about
26:31it you know astonishing you know so you
26:36get almost to the top of the stairs
26:38where death is a
26:40certainty and I think it's two women
26:43ahead of there two other women ahead of
26:46you yeah
26:49and for some reason you get turned the
26:52other way right yes right what was your
26:56Mantra my mantra Mantra yes if I survive
27:01today if I survive today then tomorrow I
27:03will show my boyfriend my eyes and my
27:07hands yes it was the boyfriend that told
27:11me I have beautiful eyes because when I
27:13was put on a cett card he said I'll
27:16never forget your beautiful eyes and
27:18beautiful hands I know so this is what I
27:21said you know if I survive today then
27:25tomorrow I'll be free yeah the way you
27:27wrote that it felt like a scene out of a
27:30movie you're in the cattle car there the
27:32thousands of bodies squeezed up against
27:34each other and through the slats in the
27:36cattle car he yells I I will never
27:39forget your eyes and your hands yes and
27:43that those words are what you held on to
27:47throughout the Curiosity yes that uh
27:52that this is temporary and I can survive
27:55it mhm and really every think is
27:59temporary but by the time you had gotten
28:01to the Death March which goes on for
28:03days and days and but in this moment
28:06where you get turned away and you
28:10don't could you feel the hand of God
28:12then or did you lose God in the camp I
28:15discovered God in the
28:17camp people ask me where was God in aitz
28:21and I say God was with me God didn't
28:24kill my parents people did
28:28we're not born to hate mhm we're born
28:31with love
28:33mhm we learn to
28:37hate we are
28:39taught that I'm better than somebody
28:42else so I ask people to be good parent
28:46to
28:47themselves and to be of course tell the
28:51children that marriage is not about
28:54raising your voice because children
28:57don't do what we say they do what they
29:01see coming
29:03[Music]
29:15up one of the things I want to emphasize
29:20that this book is also about it's about
29:23keeping secrets and what keeping secrets
29:25do to us you say when we Force our
29:28truths and stories into hiding Secrets
29:32can become their own trauma Their Own
29:35Prison far from diminishing pain
29:38whatever we deny ourselves the
29:41opportunity to accept becomes as
29:44inescapable as brick walls and steel
29:47bars when we don't allow ourselves to
29:51grieve our losses wounds and
29:55disappointments we are doomed to keep
29:58living yeah thank you so much for saying
30:00that because all therapy is grief you
30:05know my granddaughter is here right now
30:08and when she was born the pediatrician
30:11said that she may become a ballerina and
30:14I said oh now I can die because my blood
30:17is in her but when she went to Bishop
30:20school and asked me to buy her a dress
30:23so she can go to her
30:25dance and uh I came home and I out of
30:28the blue I was crying and I didn't get
30:31it how come I am crying I just bought
30:34Lindsay address and it made me realize
30:37that I didn't cry because Lindsay went
30:40to a dance I cried because I never went
30:44to a dance I had this experience that
30:46became clarified when I read your story
30:50so let me tell you one of my dear
30:52friends who's like I'm the Godmother of
30:54a young girl who is uh my best friend's
30:58daughter and when she was a little
31:00girl her mother she was at my house and
31:03she was like 3 years old and she said to
31:05her mother mom can I have some
31:07strawberries and her mother said ask ano
31:11if you can have the strawberries I said
31:13sure you can have the strawberries and I
31:14watched her mother cut the strawberries
31:17for her yeah in little tiny little and
31:20made a little flow and handed them to
31:22her to eat
31:24and the delight and joy yeah that she
31:28experien watching and watching her
31:30mother do that I thought that's what a
31:33mother does that's what a mother does
31:36and I started to cry watching them yeah
31:39and I until I cuz I thought well that's
31:42what love is that's what a mother does
31:44and it wasn't until I read your book
31:46that I realized I wasn't crying about
31:49the stra strawberries I was crying for
31:51the loss that I had that no one had ever
31:54done that for me thank you so much for
31:57saying that yeah yes because it's not
32:00what happened what what didn't happen
32:02it's that's what's so powerful about
32:05this book yes that's what's so powerful
32:08about this book it's not just what
32:10happened it's also what didn't happen
32:12what did not happen yeah well that's
32:14what I got and all this time I was
32:16thinking oh I'm crying about the
32:17strawberries I'm crying because oh that
32:20was so loving and I get to see what love
32:22is I'm really crying for the loss
32:24because I ask especially women when did
32:28your childhood end
32:31M and I think that is very important
32:34because you have been abused or touched
32:37inappropriately yes you had the shame
32:41yes the shame the shame that you carry
32:44with you and then you grow up and you
32:46end up shaming yourself well yes and
32:48what creates the shame for everyone
32:51who's listening to us what creates the
32:53shame is the secret yeah is holding the
32:57secret yes is holding the secret it
32:59takes so much energy to
33:02resist yes and have your secret yes and
33:07then the
33:08secret has you and the secret has you so
33:12when you learned that the secrets
33:15actually Force us to relive the pain but
33:19not to get stuck in there not to get
33:21stuck in going through the valley of the
33:23shadow of death I don't forget what
33:25happened and people tell me you overcame
33:29no I
33:30didn't I was going to have a beautiful
33:33steak dinner the other day in San Diego
33:36and I'm were walking on
33:39cobblestones
33:40immediately I was back when children
33:43were spitting at us and calling us in
33:47German dogs and Swine and pigs and and I
33:52felt so sorry for those children that
33:54they were taught to hate me m
33:58and then when I was doing my doctoral
34:00work in a military hospital I ended up
34:04working with German families and the
34:06little girl run to me comes to my lap
34:09and calls me om oh and so you see how
34:13how things EV but that had been one of
34:15your dreams actually I as I recall that
34:18you write in the book that when your
34:21sister would say Magda would say she
34:24wanted Revenge she wanted to kill you
34:26said I want one day for these German
34:28children or German people to see me as a
34:31as a real human and and it happened and
34:34it's happening now as well I also took
34:37care of a young man who was part of the
34:41David
34:43Kesh group yes and he never knew who I
34:47was but he told me that he's going to
34:51kill all the Jews and all the using the
34:54N word and and I had your
34:58patience yes he was sent to me by the
35:01judge by the judge and so I I say that
35:05because there is a difference between
35:07reacting or responding yes see when you
35:11react so you you as a Jewish woman who's
35:13experienced aitz he didn't know it comes
35:16to you and say says I want to kill all
35:18the Jews and all the using all the
35:21disparaging language to describe all the
35:23other
35:24ethnicities you do what I turn to God
35:28you talk to God and I
35:30realized that God sent this young man to
35:35me because the most obnoxious person is
35:38your best teacher and it's up to me to
35:41create the
35:43environment but he could feel any
35:45feelings with me without the fear of
35:48being judged and that's what I did I
35:51opened myself up and asked him to tell
35:54me
35:56more but if I would would have reacted I
35:59would have shaken him up mhm I would
36:02have sh if You' gone to how dare you
36:05dare you don't know my mother went to
36:07the gas chamber I know if I would have
36:11reacted but God sent him my way so I can
36:15take a deep breath and be what I was
36:19meant to
36:20be a facilitator I'm not a Healer I
36:25facilitate someone's healing
36:28M coming
36:37[Music]
36:41up what is
36:43your
36:45greatest wish for the offering of this
36:48book to the world what is it you want
36:50people to
36:53get to
36:56find people
36:58peace
37:01within they they stop blaming mhm
37:05because while you blame you're still a
37:08child so to be
37:11grownups to be adults and recognize that
37:15there is no freedom without
37:18responsibility it's
37:20Anarchy so the fact that you've now
37:22written this book at 90 the truth is
37:25when you all read the book The Choice
37:27which I highly highly highly highly
37:28recommend thank you it took you a lot of
37:32years like 20 years you never even spoke
37:34of it no you never even spoke of it no I
37:38didn't know how so you began your own
37:41therapy and then became a therapist I
37:43told the therapist what to do with
37:46me really I had tremendous problems with
37:50anger you know when you're angry there's
37:54a lot of things going on with you m and
37:57I didn't know how there is no
37:59forgiveness without
38:02rage I read that I thought it was so
38:04powerful and I told this therapist to
38:07put me in a FAL position and sit on me
38:10mhm until I got up mhm
38:15yes experience not just talking about
38:18feeling or medicate feeling but letting
38:21yourself actually feel it feel the
38:23feeling yeah
38:25yeah and so when you started to work
38:28through your
38:29own pain when you started to recognize
38:32it and invited in and invited in which
38:36is the thing most people fear you know
38:38particularly when you've been
38:38traumatized you think I think I read
38:41where you said that AIT you were just
38:44about survival but when you came out it
38:47was even worse because now you have to
38:50feel the feelings that's right yes yeah
38:53that is so beautifully said invite the
38:56feeling in to feel the feeling but not
39:01to get stuck in there I think that is
39:04important that you decide how long will
39:08you hold on to that yes I think so many
39:11people have been traumatized and don't
39:12even know it but your comment about you
39:15can't get to forgiveness without rage I
39:18think that to me is very important to go
39:22through the rage and and and it's okay I
39:27think God gives us permission yeah to
39:29shake our hands and uh and not to really
39:34get stuck in and I think you also can't
39:37get through it too it's also what's what
39:39is the the central core of divisiveness
39:44in race relations in this country you
39:46can't get through it unless there's been
39:48an
39:49acknowledgment that you've been wrong
39:52awareness awareness of that and when
39:55there hasn't been that acknowledgement
39:56people rage rage against it rage against
40:00it and there's no way there can ever be
40:02forgiveness yes forgiveness is a
40:06gift that you really give to
40:09yourself that not allowing the past to
40:13all your life so when you say you for
40:17you have forgiven Hitler you have
40:20forgiven the hope that you could it
40:23could have been any different and you've
40:25given yourself permission to go ahead
40:28and live beautiful and also forgiving
40:32myself which is the hardest thing yes
40:34self forgiveness mhm that I said it's my
40:39mother not my
40:41sister and you know what you and I have
40:45one thing in
40:46common we have yet to stop Yes you and I
40:51are still in the process we're climbing
40:54that mountain and we sleep and we climb
40:57but you know what you and I never stop
41:02climbing I love that I love that I love
41:05you for having me thank you thank you
41:08that's a miracle trly thank you thank
41:10you
41:17[Music]

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