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Dr Edith Eger: Thriving Past Trauma (BABF 2018) — Transcript

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0:01[Music]
0:08so you who don't know the JCC of the
0:11East Bay located just over there on
0:12Walnut Street one of our locations is a
0:1540 year old institution that proudly
0:17offers arts and cultural events youth
0:20programs and much more in Oakland and
0:22Berkeley and for today's program were
0:24especially grateful for the support of
0:26yves gordon sramek in honor of mayor
0:29goldberg and henry sramek without
0:31further ado thank you to dr. edith eager
0:34for being here with us today good
0:44morning everyone thank you so much for
0:46being here Thank You Julie
0:47Thank You JCC of the East Bay and the
0:51Yves Gordon rumack support in memory of
0:55mayor Goldberg and Henry REMIC my name
0:58is Elizabeth Rosner I'm a Berkley
1:00resident and an author and it's such an
1:04honor to be here today with dr. eager
1:07I'm asked to remind you to please
1:11silence your cellphone's if you haven't
1:13already done so thank you and after the
1:18talk we will be more than happy to greet
1:21you out in the lobby where Edie will be
1:24signing copies of her book can everybody
1:29hear me all right okay so I'm gonna
1:33start by telling you a little bit about
1:36what Professor Philip Zimbardo has said
1:40about dr. eager and I know a lot of you
1:44are here because you already know what
1:46an extraordinary human being you have
1:49before you today and what a privilege it
1:52is for us to get to hear hear your story
1:55but I'm gonna read from the introduction
1:58briefly dr. Eagers life has been full of
2:05Darkness she was imprisoned at Auschwitz
2:08when she was just a teenager
2:11despite torture starvation and the
2:14constant threat of annihilation
2:17she preserved her mental and spiritual
2:19freedom she was not broken by the
2:22horrors she experienced she was
2:25emboldened and strengthened by them
2:27in fact her wisdom comes from deep
2:31within the most devastating episodes of
2:34her life she is able to help others heal
2:37because she has journeyed from trauma to
2:41triumph herself sounds pretty good even
2:47to you right so the book itself which I
2:52want to refer to frequently because
2:54after all we're here at a Book Festival
2:56we're here to celebrate the written word
2:58and we're so so fortunate that you were
3:02able to share your story with us in this
3:04way the book is called the choice
3:06embrace the possible and we're gonna
3:10find out more about why you gave it that
3:13title assuming you got to choose your
3:15title that is and and I'll tell you a
3:19little bit about the structure of the
3:20book the first significant quarter of
3:23the book describes Edie's experience
3:26before and during her imprisonment in
3:30Auschwitz and then the book moves into
3:33her life afterward her marriage her
3:35raising of children her going back to
3:37school and then this discovery that
3:40there was a trauma you hadn't yet
3:42processed yourself and how working with
3:45other people who had endured traumatic
3:47experiences brought you in to face
3:50facing your own darkest stories so
3:54there's a moment in the beginning where
3:56you you reference your ballet master yes
3:59if you can't tell she's a dancer I want
4:05to beg her to stand up and perform we're
4:09gonna dance after this we'll meet you
4:12dancing out in the lobby your ballet
4:15master said Edie you your ecstasy comes
4:19from inside can you talk about that yes
4:22you're so wonderful the way you're going
4:25to really carry us so beautifully
4:27I am I like movement and I like to call
4:31myself a guide not the therapist and not
4:34to pathologize because I think in some
4:37ways we're all victims of victims so why
4:42do you blame you're still a child you
4:43know when someone says he did this to me
4:46and so I am telling you about the ballet
4:50master because my parents had two
4:53beautiful girls Magda who is still alive
4:57she lives in Baltimore she was the
5:01pretty one
5:02she calls me now and she tells me I'm
5:06gorgeous
5:07she's 96 96 but I know that she's 97 go
5:16figure
5:20Magda was with me in Auschwitz and Clara
5:23was a child prodigy in viola and then
5:26she was the only Jewish girl accepted at
5:29the Music Academy in Budapest when she
5:32was already in a camp
5:33the professor World War the name
5:38smuggled her out and he'd heard until
5:41the end of the war and the way I found
5:43out that she was alive then became from
5:46Vienna to Prague
5:48I saw advertisements with a violin that
5:51she's giving a concert and she became a
5:55violinist at the Sydney Sydney Opera
5:59House so my parents decided where we
6:03must have a son and guess what happened
6:06they got me mm-hmm
6:09I didn't know what the word extra cement
6:12I became cross-eyed when I was three
6:16years old and my two sisters blindfolded
6:22me when they took me for the walk
6:23because they didn't want anyone to see
6:26what an ugly sister day yeah I can still
6:29sing the Hungarian song to you that I'm
6:33so ugly and pure
6:34and I'm never gonna find the husband so
6:37my mother took me to the ballet school
6:39so this guy picks me up and tells me
6:42about you know the ecstasy has to come
6:45from inside out but I didn't know what
6:48ecstasy meant I didn't know what he was
6:50talking about until I was in Auschwitz
6:54but nothing came from without and we had
6:57to discover and I like to talk about
7:01that power that no one no Nazi could
7:04ever ever take away from me so it's just
7:10so interesting to me that this is one of
7:12the many examples you give in the book
7:13of the way that what may have been seen
7:17as a curse turned out to be a blessing
7:19for you and this idea that you were told
7:22by your mother it's too bad you're not
7:23beautiful at least you're smart yes I'm
7:28so glad you have brains because you have
7:31no looks yes yes yes but you know I'm
7:34not angry at my mom I became a very
7:37erudite teenager actually I graduated
7:40with honors in the University in Texas
7:43your education is quite quite a story in
7:46itself because of all the waves of time
7:49away from schooling but I also wanted to
7:51come back to this notion that your
7:53intelligence also guided you through
7:55your experience and the camp that your
7:57awareness that it would enable you to
8:00survive if you if you thought about it
8:04you and that reminds me of things my
8:05father has said about his time in
8:07concentration camp also that thinking
8:10was important keeping her wits about you
8:13I came to America penniless in 1949 I
8:18didn't speak and word of English
8:20everything was okay and my late husband
8:25ended up in a TB hospital I became the
8:29breadwinner so you see I didn't know how
8:33to ever say anything about Auschwitz I
8:37didn't I just wanted to play Yankee
8:39Doodle Dandy I want to be like you
8:42so I went completely underground
8:44and I had a secret and not until I began
8:50to work with Vietnam vets and I studied
8:54the whole post-traumatic stress reaction
8:57it's not that disorder P patellar Josh
9:00too much ah
9:01and I had to paraplegics and one of them
9:04was telling me in a fetal position why
9:07me and cursing God country you name it
9:11and conversely the other one says to me
9:14you know doc I'm sitting in a wheelchair
9:19and I'm so grateful that God gave me a
9:22second chance I can see the children's
9:25eyes much closer I see the flowers and
9:31I'm sitting there and I have a white
9:34coat that says doctor eager Department
9:38of Psychiatry
9:39and I feel like a biggest impostor
9:45because I had a 16 year old girl in me I
9:48could not take them further than I have
9:51gone myself and I decided to go back to
9:54Auschwitz and that's the work I do today
9:57mm-hmm that I give you my hand and we're
10:03going to revisit of places where you
10:05been and you tell it to me as if it
10:10would happen now because there is no
10:15grieving without feeling you can't heal
10:19what you don't feel so I remember when I
10:25was watching Schindler's List people
10:29were walking out and I remember I felt
10:33like I was on a Grand Canyon and it was
10:37very scary looking down there but I was
10:41up here looking at it and I was in a
10:44movie with two of my grandchildren and I
10:47felt so wonderful so there you are I
10:52just I knew that I couldn't take them
10:55further than I
10:56well myself and I decided to go back and
11:00I called my sister like that I said you
11:03know Magda
11:04we lost our family and we never went to
11:07a funeral I want to go back to Auschwitz
11:10it's the biggest cemetery and she told
11:13me I'm an idiot she says not only you're
11:17an idiot but you're a masochist so you
11:20know you have the same experience but
11:24two entirely different responses that's
11:27really important what you're pointing
11:28out and I think in addition to the
11:31reason I began with that story about
11:33your ballet master and this idea of what
11:35you carry inside of you is that it's
11:38it's also been a great mystery to me how
11:41differently people endured what they did
11:43during the war and also in every
11:45experience of violence challenge and and
11:50so there is something you brought to
11:51that experience and Magda brought what
11:53she brought to the experience you
11:56describe her flirting in the camp and
11:58using her beauty because that's what
12:00that's what she had and in the same way
12:03that even now your choices are different
12:07so your choice to return to Auschwitz
12:10was part of your healing and it wasn't
12:12part of hers you know I stood in line in
12:16December to get my tattoo and I didn't
12:19get it I don't have a tattoo and I was
12:22told that I'm going to the gas chamber
12:25because they don't want to be to England
12:27me and then I noticed that Magda was in
12:30a different pilot I was I think
12:34survivors are have to be very quick
12:38decision makers it's not why me it's
12:41what now so I did some cartwheels and
12:44and she needs literal cartwheels really
12:47I did your cartwheels and anyway we were
12:52out to Auschwitz and beaver bombed we
12:56carried ammunition IB we became he
13:00became slave laborers and and we were
13:03bombed and they opened the Lord and I
13:05was the first one to jump you know
13:08and I go today I'm trying to picture it
13:11um I'm in the middle of them farming you
13:14know I I i run run run run they Magda
13:17was not with me so I go back in the
13:20middle of the bombing and make them
13:23jumped and she fell and I am ashamed to
13:27tell you there were some political
13:30prisoners I guess eating and I chewed
13:34her out that now she looks like this
13:38because she could ask for some food
13:40it did not occur to me that I could ask
13:44for food too because I was the ugly one
13:46and she was I am ashamed to tell you
13:49that I am chewing out my sister because
13:53I go by the name that I was given and
13:56and and so you know we can rewrite all
14:02that that we can be our good parents and
14:06I do that I ask people to a good parents
14:10to you because temptation is here you
14:14know why so you can practice the freedom
14:18of choice
14:19I can't is not in my vocabulary mm-hmm I
14:23can't is not in her vocabulary I can you
14:28know why because I think I can I love
14:36that so many phrases that come out of
14:38you really are like slogans and it's not
14:41they're not cliches when I hear them
14:43with your beautiful Hungarian accent
14:45they they feel earned to me and this
14:48idea that you talked about in the book
14:51when you when your family arrived at
14:54Auschwitz and your father saw the Arbeit
14:57macht Frei Sein and he thought that
14:59meant everything was going to be okay
15:02because it was just a place where they
15:04had to work until the war was over work
15:06will set you free and it was your
15:11experience later in life when you
15:14recognized that the work you had to do
15:17to set yourself free it was an entirely
15:20for kind of work and that the revisiting
15:23of that phrase became a mantra of your
15:28own about being set free by your own
15:31inner process your inner challenge can
15:35you talk about that bad you know they
15:38could throw me in a gas chamber or
15:40anything and they beat me and tortured
15:44and all that was going on but they could
15:47never ever murder my spirit so I like to
15:52talk about the dead and then and bring
15:56it into the here and now because the
16:01more we depend on other people to make
16:04us happy like I back parents don't spoil
16:08your children because those were the
16:11first one to die they would just sit
16:15there and wait you know who's gonna come
16:18and and and they died they gave up very
16:25quickly or they attack the guards and of
16:29course they were shot right away so you
16:33know Hansol he talks about the stress
16:36studies that if anything stressful comes
16:39to you you have two automatic responses
16:42you either fight or flee I couldn't
16:46fight because if I would have touched
16:49the gods they would've immediately
16:53showed me I come free because if I would
16:56have touched the world wires I would
16:58have been electrocuted
17:00so I somehow decided at the age of
17:07sixteen that they were the prisoners I
17:12don't know how it came about because I
17:16was told every day that the only way I
17:18will get out of here is as a corpse and
17:23I said to myself if I survive today then
17:30tomorrow I will meet my boyfriend
17:34because he told me that I have beautiful
17:38eyes and I have beautiful hands so I
17:42would go to everyone tell me about my
17:45hands tell me about my eyes you know it
17:48didn't occur to me that I'm I'm going to
17:51listen to that guy who was you know
17:53going in this uniform prancing around
17:56and somehow I was able to with with
18:07God's guidance I think God helped me to
18:12turn hatred into pity so people asked
18:20where was God in Auschwitz
18:23God was with me God was with me in love
18:28to me even today I I may not like what
18:35you do but I'm gonna give you
18:37unconditional unconditional regard just
18:43because you're human I I'm always having
18:56difficulties with tremendous survivor's
19:01guilt and shame I don't know why but
19:08when I graduated with honors and they
19:12told me where to I'm not summa laude
19:14when I'm laude because I thought the
19:19more I study the more I will deserve
19:22that I survived so I didn't show up for
19:27my graduation because I didn't think I
19:32had the right but then you see I I had
19:37to go back to Auschwitz to reclaim my
19:39innocence to assign the shame and guilt
19:42to the perpetrator and begin to forgive
19:46myself
19:47that I survived so I'm still not done
19:50I'm still climbing that mountain and I'm
19:54very curious and I wanna get to know you
19:57and the doctor told me not to come here
20:00today because I had pneumonia and I am
20:05recovering and I said to the doctor I'm
20:09going and I'm shown here
20:12and yes I'm not gonna do anything
20:16[Music]
20:20because I think young people asked me
20:25you know what what you know what keeps
20:27you so young I say that I live in a
20:31present I can only touch you now so I
20:35want to hug you I want to touch you and
20:38I want to be so grateful that we are
20:41here truly celebrating every moment of
20:46life because to me every moment is
20:50precious I never take anything for
20:53granted I don't like to leave food on my
20:56plate
20:57my daughter had actually talked to mom
21:00it's okay it's okay it's okay it still
21:04pains me to throw away even a piece of
21:06bread mm-hmm
21:07so there is so much to say there is so
21:10much to say I could just let you go on
21:12I'm like people to read your book she
21:16already had wrote five books and the
21:20latest one is called survivor's cafe
21:24it's a wonderful and she's a child of
21:28survivor and I'd like to maybe to tell
21:32you that children of immigrants parent
21:37eyes their children they're the ones my
21:41little girl was two years old she went
21:44to a school she brought home a book
21:46called Chicken Little and the sky is
21:49falling and thank him ducky lucky goosey
21:53loosey
21:53turkey Lurkey so I'm looking at my two
21:55year old teaching me how to speak
21:58English because I didn't know that
22:00from lucky until you see she became one
22:03of the most brilliant child psychologist
22:06I want to show up with Mary Ann and the
22:10doctor told me when I became pregnant
22:12that is not allowing me to have a child
22:15because I'm too big get a second opinion
22:18because I told the doctor I want to give
22:20life and my late husband in
22:24Czechoslovakia in 1946 apologized to the
22:27doctor that his wife doesn't know how to
22:30talk to a doctor respectfully say speak
22:34up speak up speak up Marion is a
22:38brilliant child psychologist and she's
22:40married to Robert Engel who got the
22:44Nobel Prize in Economics so I'm showing
22:46off I have three kids I have two
22:49daughters and after two daughters I had
22:53a son and my late husband was very very
22:56very anxious to keep the eager name that
22:59rabbi rabbi akiva again but as something
23:03developed like the girls and I told the
23:06doctors you know that there is something
23:09you know he's not sitting harpist and
23:11and so so I know that the pediatrician
23:17told me you know I know you have a book
23:20club I know you're an intellectual you
23:23may need to prepare your son is going to
23:26go to a school for children
23:29this is 1960 and I see where do I get a
23:33second opinion at Johns Hopkins I arrive
23:37at Johns Hopkins a neurologist dr. Clark
23:42takes my son a bit later says you know
23:45the son is going to be what you make of
23:47him he's not he looks that way
23:50he's drooling so on and I'm sitting
23:53there and so what are you doing now as
23:56Salam a student he said well he's gonna
23:59need speech therapy occupational so far
24:01so on how much do I owe you ten dollars
24:041960
24:07I go I drop out of school I just want to
24:10tell you about that power of the spirit
24:14that I got not I got I discovered in
24:20Auschwitz no never give up hope my son
24:25John graduated as a top ten student from
24:29the University of Texas so that's what I
24:32really would like to you know I'm at the
24:35evening of my life I'm nine years old
24:38and wondered you know how do I want to
24:40be remembered and I want to be
24:42remembered as someone who did everything
24:44in their power to see to it that
24:46whenever ever happened to again I owe it
24:49to my parents that I didn't die in vain
24:51mm-hmm so yeah message received
24:55message received so this way that you
24:59exemplify your own perseverance your own
25:02will to live your own strength from
25:04within and that you transmit which layer
25:07what spa you transmitted it to your
25:10children to your grandchildren you have
25:12great grandchildren now you're
25:13transmitting it from yesterday of the
25:15ocean and the little one calls me Gigi
25:18baby what can be more beautiful I have
25:24four generation that's the best revenge
25:28yeah there's so many you can see I you
25:34know I flagged all these pages in the
25:36book there are so many things you've
25:37already touched on about there's a line
25:40you say that sometimes you have to in
25:42order to move forward you have to circle
25:44back and that's the part about your
25:47physical literal return to Auschwitz but
25:49also your willingness to look at the
25:52shadows that you were still carrying the
25:53secrets really and the question I asked
25:57our DoD why are being or are you evil
26:00are being and so many people call me a
26:03good midwife anything like that that's
26:06okay and maybe after today you're gonna
26:08give birth to the you that was meant to
26:10be to be free at last yes so she's doing
26:14group therapy with all of us right now
26:17but it's true I think you have this
26:20wonderful capacity to share your wisdom
26:23and it's it's deep in you this
26:26experience this set of experiences that
26:28you're able to offer up through your
26:31words and just through your presence can
26:33be more more I'm so grateful that not
26:38only I survived but I can guide other
26:41people to find their own freedom and I'm
26:44getting wonderful feedback and she's
26:48still working they'll leave me at 90 you
26:52can do it you can do it so I hope that
26:55see what comes out of your body doesn't
26:58make you you know what stays in there
27:00does and one of the things that you
27:04write about in the book with such
27:05transparency as your being transparent
27:07here today by allowing us to also hear
27:11the vulnerability and the shame the
27:12shameful pieces that still that still
27:15are with you this idea that you know
27:19your own pacing your own timing had to
27:21be what it was that when your daughter
27:23came home from school asking questions
27:26and when Bayla your husband said you
27:32know your mother was there your mother
27:34was in Auschwitz and while you were not
27:37happy about that right my daughter
27:38bought a beautiful dress and my husband
27:47says go honey have a good time because
27:50when mother was interviewed age she was
27:54in Auschwitz and I thought I was gonna
27:56kill him you know
27:59by the way I'd like to say that we don't
28:03grieve over what happened but what
28:05didn't happen I mean I kind of told you
28:08my granddaughter was born Lindsey and
28:12and the pediatrician said that she may
28:16become a ballerina and I said to myself
28:18great now I can die you know I have now
28:21three generations but she did become a
28:24little ballerina
28:25and she asked me to to buy her a dress
28:33so she can go to the dance and and so I
28:39came home and out of the blue I'm crying
28:43I don't understand why am i crying I
28:46just bought Lindsey a beautiful dress
28:49and then I realized that I'm not crying
28:55because Lindsey went to a dance I cried
28:58because I never went to a dance and
29:02that's why you see many times we use
29:05this defense mechanism oh it wasn't such
29:08a big thing it is a big thing and I hope
29:12that I can be today giving you an
29:15opportunity that perhaps you want to
29:18take stock of your life because you know
29:22what our ancestors I usually tell the
29:26man you're not a strong woman you are a
29:29woman of strength the power comes within
29:33us me not only smart very wise we figure
29:37out man and we know world all about the
29:40ego too and so I think it's very
29:45important for you to acknowledge that
29:48our ancestors didn't have it as good as
29:52we did and I made it and we carried that
29:56blood you see see yes I am yes I can yes
30:02I wear lots of let's see
30:04because when Alice yes yes because when
30:07I was liberated and they put me in a
30:09hospital and I was in a cast and I could
30:14hardly breathe and I had typhoid fever
30:16and I got up in the morning and I
30:20realized that my parents are not coming
30:22back
30:23reality hit me and I became very
30:25suicidal and today I work with the
30:31suicide I work with the military I and I
30:35come home and they
30:36take their lives doing everything in my
30:38power to prevent that and I know that
30:42God said to me that it's better to be
30:46for something and to be for life and not
30:51to be a coward and I'm grateful that
30:55today I am in a healing arts profession
30:59isn't there it's remarkable what you do
31:02in the book when you relate some
31:06anecdotes about people that you've
31:07worked with and are continuing to work
31:08with now including there's one really
31:11quite extraordinary and I think
31:13especially relevant to this moment
31:15encounter you have with a 14 year old
31:18kid who Wow who is essentially a
31:23neo-nazi and he and he's sitting in your
31:25office yes thank you for reminding yeah
31:30he's he's exclaiming his platform his
31:35white supremacist hate-filled platform
31:37and you very generously describe the
31:42moments in which your own rage and and
31:46violent feelings toward him arise and
31:49then you force yourself to say where is
31:52the bigot in me where is the bigot in me
31:55and you wait and you very very patiently
31:59you what you talked about before that
32:01fight or flee response you chose to wait
32:04in that space to not really manage your
32:08feelings but allow your feelings to pass
32:11through you until you you decide to say
32:15to him tell me more yeah that's the
32:20difference between reacting or
32:22responding so in the English language
32:26when you're angry you can attach it what
32:29I say to the children because I do a lot
32:32of lecturing on booing and you know
32:35bullies are cowards and so on tell you
32:38that bullies are cowards
32:39you just said under her breath so when
32:42you hear you you say to yourself I'm
32:46gonna be dumped on
32:48we still live in America that is for
32:50this speech the more they talk the more
32:55relaxed I become you have the choice to
32:59react or to this plant and just take a
33:04deep breath and say to yourself I'm
33:07practicing my low frustration tolerance
33:09level so I'm not a drink I'm a stretch
33:13so so you can truly also stretch your
33:19comfort zone and I think ash which was
33:22an opportunity to discover the kind of
33:27skills like how to move beyond oh me me
33:30me and I know that Mac that was more
33:33hungry than I was and I ate soup but I
33:37shared the bread that we still had
33:40choices and when I danced for dr.
33:44mengele they he gave me a piece of bread
33:47and I shared it with the girls and when
33:50I was on the Death March April 1945 when
34:02you stopped you were shot and the girls
34:07that I shared a bread with they formed a
34:10chair with their arms and they carried
34:12me so I wouldn't die isn't that amazing
34:15that if you're only the mimimi you
34:19didn't make it and they we had was each
34:22other then and all we had so they
34:24remembered the gift of the shared bread
34:26and they saw that it was your turn to
34:29need help yeah Mac there was heavier I
34:33was skinny but I was full of muscles
34:36full of muscles so I think this is why I
34:41am always finding somehow a gift in
34:47everything there's a there's a passage
34:49rather early in the book also where you
34:53went and you you ran to a garden and dug
34:56up a little carrot that you
34:57and to bring to your sister and that
34:59almost got you killed you're such a good
35:01little person
35:03you're so good I was I was interviewed
35:07by Larry King
35:08that's quite a guy and he said to me
35:13that he interviewed other survivors and
35:16they never found the kind person so I
35:20tell him that I experienced in April
35:261945 when my sister told me that she is
35:30so hungry and if I don't get anything
35:32she's gonna die and I didn't care about
35:34the you know we were told we gonna be
35:37shot if he dare to leave diplomacy so I
35:40go outside and I don't care what they
35:45told me but I saw some carrots in annex
35:48garden I didn't have any respect for
35:50anybody's property and I jumped I stole
35:54the carrots I came up I met the guard
35:56with a gun and I heard the clicking and
36:02there was an eye contact and it was like
36:06a father have you ever had a German
36:08father can have one now he can kill you
36:13with your eyes anyway he turned the gun
36:17around and pushed me inside I have
36:19updated bad scoliosis but he came back
36:24the following day and wanted to know who
36:26dare to break the rules and I'm calling
36:29to him and he said you must have been
36:32very hungry for what you did and gave me
36:36a little loaf of bread I wish I could
36:39meet that man today I'm gonna just read
36:42you that passage
36:45you must have been very hungry to do
36:47what you did he says I wish I could meet
36:50that man now he's proof that 12 years of
36:54Hitler's rife isn't enough hate to take
36:57the good out of people his eyes are my
37:00father's eyes green and full of relief
37:05the book is really beautifully written
37:07in addition to being incredibly powerful
37:10and full of wisdom hard-earned
37:13hard-earned wisdom one of the things you
37:17say is that to heal is to check to
37:21cherish the wound
37:23yes so it's my cherished wound
37:26yes yeah it's there and people tell me
37:29you know you overcame no I did not I
37:33will never forget
37:35I will not overcome but I go through the
37:39valley of the shadow of death you know I
37:41don't come there and I think it's very
37:45important to know that that I don't run
37:50anymore I don't fight that anymore I am
37:55at peace knowing that somehow that was
38:00that a Jewish word by shared that for me
38:04to go through that schooling hold a
38:07schvitz and not to recover but to
38:10discover the compassionate listening
38:14that I can listen to that neo-nazi and
38:17because if I would have reacted I would
38:19have shaken that boy up you know and
38:22I've said what do you think you're
38:24talking to but I knew that my job is to
38:28create an atmosphere we women are very
38:31good at that that I give him permission
38:34to feel any feelings without a fear of
38:38being judged it's called unconditional
38:40love and I think that good parents do
38:44that but the best parent is who is
38:50helping their children to go out to the
38:56world that is not waiting for them and
38:58do it without the parents say more about
39:02that what the children do without the
39:05parents there they may have to go
39:09through to suffering and suffering his
39:15feelings and
39:17I know that many parents buy presents
39:22for the children when the children don't
39:25even ask for it so I write a
39:29constitution for a family that is no
39:32freedom without responsibility it's
39:35anarchy you know there is the genes I
39:39think it's not talking about 40% I
39:43thought it was 50% I cannot change a
39:46gene there's the environment but I like
39:50to talk about how I respond to the other
39:53two I have that choice well so when you
39:57thought you were protecting your
39:58children from your history that's right
40:00and then you realized that what you said
40:03earlier that you can't heal what you
40:06haven't already you can't what you don't
40:09feel and so it's about about the
40:13grieving the feeling and the healing and
40:18I'm still not done I'm still climbing
40:22that mountain I sleep in a climb
40:24but I never stopped climbing there's a
40:27curious and curiosity was a tremendous
40:31asset in Auschwitz I always wanted to
40:34know what's going to happen next you say
40:38among the other many beautiful lines in
40:40the book time doesn't heal it's what you
40:43do with the time exactly exactly so your
40:46healing process is very active you're
40:48not just waiting why we're never retired
40:51I I think that I have a lot to say and
40:58the expression is the opposite of
41:01depressions mm-hmm so what comes out it
41:06sounds like you're a pretty
41:07unconventional therapist
41:09yes um you know she you describe some of
41:12these encounters with you know you've
41:14got a vet in the room with a gun and
41:17he's homicidal he wants to kill his wife
41:21whom he has he found out his wife has
41:23been cheating on him and you are in your
41:26office with a man with a gun
41:28and you tell him that you have to go for
41:33a walk with me you gave him an order
41:36because he's a military and I dope that
41:40the only way I talk to the military
41:43because military they either give orders
41:47or they get orders so I always outrank
41:51them
41:54note to self so if you're the captain I
42:00become the general and and that's when
42:05your clinical training comes handy you
42:08know I have 6,000 clinical hours only
42:12three is required I always walk the
42:15extra mile it didn't hurt many because I
42:19saw this man he was totally catatonic
42:21and I was with a psychiatrist next door
42:25and I knew if I'm going to take him to
42:28the psychiatrist he's gonna be in a
42:30hospital in no time and he's going to
42:32get held on and the hair don't have side
42:34effect you can tardive dyskinesia for
42:37life okay so I did everything my power
42:42to see what I can do and I had the
42:46beautiful dog tests of the top of you
42:50and I looked at the man and said we're
42:54going to go for the walk my dog needs to
42:58go to the park and he's looking at me
43:01how can I get out of here what am I
43:04doing here with this woman speaking with
43:07a Hungarian accent but he's a good
43:09soldier yes ma'am I had to move him and
43:14when he came back I could see that now
43:19maybe and many many hours later my silk
43:25blouse was you know totally wet and he
43:31had a gun and he was on his way to kill
43:35his wife and her boss and a friend said
43:39why don't you stop by of this woman's
43:43because I was consulting and I did my
43:45doctoral work with the military that's
43:48how I became the military psychology
43:51that's why I work with the military
43:54there's another extraordinary scene in
43:56here where you're about to address the
43:59seventy-first is it Airborne Division
44:01I'm forgetting who the the 71st army I
44:04was liberated guess what May 4th it's
44:10coming 1945 by the 71st infantry alright
44:20a couple years ago I get a call from a
44:27general dr. eagle would you please come
44:32you have a good name about being an
44:35expert on PTSD is forth Carson Colorado
44:41City and I arrived and all I see is 71
44:46and it's the home of the 71st infantry
44:53so imagine when I told them that without
44:56that uniform I wouldn't be here today so
45:01somehow everything kind of works and
45:04things come around and I just couldn't
45:09believe it that Here I am thanking them
45:12that they came to get me that hopefully
45:16American doesn't have any room for
45:17fascism amen
45:22[Music]
45:28there's another piece of that story in
45:31the book where you're you're seeing the
45:34number 71 but you're also you're also
45:36having flashbacks everyday yeah so you
45:41describe that experience of you know the
45:44seeing of the American flags the
45:46uniforms transport you immediately back
45:50to your near dead state and that your
45:55body still has that memory right I I was
46:00on the advisory committee for the VA and
46:03as such I would go to Washington and go
46:08through the the museum and I said to
46:14myself I'm not going there I've been
46:16there done that then but after six years
46:19I came on Sunday I didn't have anything
46:22to do I went to the Holocaust Museum so
46:26I go up on the fourth floor and I see
46:29and I'm looking for the gis with a flag
46:32who came to get me and I see pictures
46:35you know Italy friend so on and one on
46:39the right new arrivals in Auschwitz May
46:431944 Hungary and I don't know don't look
46:50for me but I thought I was there and I
46:55knew that the following morning I'm
46:57gonna be at the Advisory Committee for
46:59the VA and there is a big sign doctor
47:02EDT ye girl and I wondered how did that
47:05girl that 16 became doctor EDT what
47:12occurred the journey the journey of your
47:15life that I'm hoping today to give you
47:20an opportunity to free yourself from the
47:26biggest concentration camp that may be
47:28in your own mind and the keys in your
47:32pocket
47:37there's water here thank you
47:39[Music]
47:42the question of forgiveness comes up
47:45often and I'm struck again and again in
47:51your writing about the way that you
47:54return the issue to the internal process
47:59of forgiveness then as you've already
48:01described so eloquently this idea that
48:04that what happens outside of you isn't
48:07really where the work gets done so you
48:12you talk about this journey you just
48:14mentioned the journey of forgiving
48:17yourself can you can you say a little
48:19bit about that to me revenge gives you
48:30satisfaction but I think it's very
48:36temporary and people say to me you're
48:43such a good person you forgave the Nazis
48:46I said no I don't have that kind of
48:51godly power I just don't want the Nazi
48:55to live in me I want to have joy I want
48:59to have passion and so I release them
49:04and give myself permission to be free to
49:11have jewelry and web fashion but I also
49:15let you know that I go dancing every
49:20Sunday I go swing dancing and the
49:24children call it supermarket music yeah
49:32that it's you know that forgiveness is
49:37really for give that it's not you know
49:42it's not up to me to forgive the Nazis
49:45but I think there is a Nazi in every one
49:48of us
49:49and so is goodness and kindness and what
49:54we reach for every day and I and I reach
49:58for the Hope but I'm not minimizing or
50:02trivializing because never unfortunately
50:07genocide is still here as we speak yes
50:11but never in the history of mankind such
50:16a scientific and systematic annihilation
50:22existed so it's not comparable because
50:2515 highly highly educated people got
50:30together in the evening celebrated that
50:33they can put 30,000 Jews in the oven in
50:36one day one and a half million their
50:40children my father returns to that
50:44number often when he talks about his own
50:48feeling about being a survivor and I was
50:52just talking to him on the phone this
50:53morning I asked him what should I ask
50:55Edie what would you want to say to Edie
50:58and he said that the the way he's made
51:02sense of his survival which is often
51:05hard for him to make sense of as I know
51:07you have struggled with that sometimes
51:09too he says I try to do with my life
51:13what I imagine some of those 1.5 million
51:17children might have been able to do and
51:20I think about your commitment to using
51:25your experience and what you gained from
51:28it to continue to improve the world and
51:32make the world a better place so you're
51:34leaving a legacy is there is there a way
51:37that you summarize your legacy your your
51:40great-grandchildren your book the work
51:43that you do I do have a dream that
51:49someday we're going to empower each
51:53other with our differences that I can be
51:57I you can be you
52:02and for my human family and that's how I
52:08am seeing myself as a gift of God who is
52:14going to do everything in her power and
52:17also mentioning that there was 40 days
52:22in Musa dock there are many many many
52:25many many ways that unfortunately we
52:28still have genocide but I think I like
52:32to talk about what is and what I can
52:35build on and what I can do preventively
52:39and that's why I want to show up and let
52:43them know that you too have a choice not
52:48just to survive but to thrive and to
52:51know and I talked to children in school
52:56that I tell them you are beautiful
52:59because God doesn't make junk and that
53:04is very very good that you are we all
53:07are a gift of God and I know that when I
53:10will be on my deathbed I'm gonna feel so
53:14satisfied that I was here with you that
53:17I showed up for you and I did everything
53:20in our power to see to it that one of
53:24the most beautiful gift of God is a gift
53:27of memory that I will do that knowing
53:31that my parents didn't die in vain so I
53:35am very very grateful to sure and I love
53:40Martin Buber you know and he talked
53:43about the I endow he was selling his
53:46book and young man wanted to talk to him
53:50and he brushed this man aside who ended
53:53up going home and committing suicide and
53:56when he found out he said the book is an
54:00it and I could have saved a life so this
54:05is the way I feel
54:06yeah a book isn't it a human being and a
54:12human touch
54:13not sexual touch you know I became a
54:16diplomat in sexology that's another
54:19that's another topic but human touch we
54:24all have skin hunger so I hope you go
54:27and hurt yourself because self-love is
54:30self-care it's not nots assisting the
54:35speaking of the book being in it though
54:39you were saved in a way by reading
54:43Victor Frankel's book ads and that
54:45ultimately became your writing he became
54:50my mentor my colleague because I didn't
54:55have the verbal capacity I didn't want
54:58people to feel sorry for me until I died
55:01men search for meaning and he gave me
55:05the words and that's when I begin to
55:09speak and then I did the keynote address
55:13for his 90th birthday you know he was 75
55:17when he took flying lessons and they are
55:21pretty amazing and and so I am very
55:27grateful and I think my book is a female
55:34voice of Viktor Frankl I'm not Viktor
55:39Frankl a meeting and so I'm giving the
55:43female voice but he has been the one who
55:46somehow gave me the words that I could
55:50now finally get up and tell people where
55:55I was but most of all what I discovered
56:01and how ash which was an opportunity for
56:07me maybe who I am today and for you to
56:12interview me and keep writing because I
56:16don't think I'm gonna be able to do
56:19anything other than letting people know
56:22that it ain't over
56:26it ain't over yet so go home and if you
56:32have someone in a family who's a
56:34survivor and doesn't wanna talk ask your
56:38grandchildren to go and say you know I
56:41need to make an A in history but you
56:44here is pretty happy house and they're
56:47told I think a way to do it this book
56:52your voice will live on through this
56:55book I'm wondering if you know about the
56:58Holograms that are now being created of
57:01survivors have you heard about this well
57:07there's at the at the Skokie Museum
57:10outside of Illinois they now have these
57:13prototypes of holograms that have been
57:16created by the Shoah foundation where
57:18they spend I don't know how many hours
57:19filming survivors telling their stories
57:23so that these Holograms can be
57:25interactive for students young people so
57:31they are the future I tell them you are
57:34the ambassadors for peace and I owe it
57:37to them so I go from school to school to
57:39school to school because they say the
57:42Holocaust didn't exist and I say you
57:44know you've gotta read Plato and says
57:47that you have to be thinking about lie
57:49and it's got to be a big one and then
57:51you repeat it repeat it so our biggest
57:53enemy is ignorance question authority
57:56don't blindly utley have to Authority as
57:59I have to do mm-hmm so you know so what
58:03do you what do you say then to the
58:05people who who won't be able to hear
58:08someone like you speak i I think I yeah
58:13I like to i never defend myself i know
58:20how our coach then guess yes you did
58:21like no I don't do that I said you know
58:24what I don't know where is your nearest
58:28German Consulate if you don't have one
58:33go to Washington and they gonna tell you
58:36she III don't get into see any behavior
58:41you'll pay attention to you reinforce
58:43that I don't reward that no I don't
58:47reward that she you said she just go to
58:51Washington because the larger Jewish
58:53population today lives in Germany and
58:56they did fess up and and I was in Berlin
58:59and they write the name of the people
59:01who lived in this house and it's in the
59:04middle of Berlin no they're not
59:06forgetting now they're not forgetting
59:09and I think I really would like to give
59:11credit where credit is due because the
59:14biggest because defense mask-making
59:18it's denial so Germany is serving as a
59:22model I often say to the rest of the
59:25world about how to take responsibility
59:26for your most heinous history and your
59:30book you said is has it been translated
59:33into German it's already out in Germany
59:35yes it's my book is in German and it's
59:39being published in German and I tell you
59:43it's that it's justice in the world I
59:48see the smile on her face
59:50yeah I think so I I think so and for you
59:55and I the child of a survivor for me to
59:58be here I wish we had more time to talk
1:00:01about how the children of survivors grow
1:00:06up very fast and if I may ask you you
1:00:10know why I told you I'd like to ask two
1:00:14question one is when did your childhood
1:00:18end and many of the children had to take
1:00:23care of her alcoholic parents and so on
1:00:26and the second question would you like
1:00:33to be married to you
1:00:38she told me to ask her those questions
1:00:41because she always asks like that so
1:00:44what's your answer so would you like to
1:00:46be married - you made it to me well I uh
1:00:51you seem pretty fantastic to me well
1:00:55what it is you know that we marry people
1:00:58we don't know my definition of love is
1:01:02the ability to let go because falling in
1:01:06love is a chemical high that only people
1:01:08get from chocolate I'm not knocking it
1:01:11I'm not knocking it but it's temporary I
1:01:14think if you can marry your best friend
1:01:16you're so made by the more you have in
1:01:20common the better because if you marry
1:01:23someone like Romeo and Juliet they don't
1:01:26know each other so people asked me did
1:01:29you love your husband I said no I met
1:01:34him in a TB hospital
1:01:36he wrote me letters he went home and he
1:01:40brought me Hungarian salami that did it
1:01:44and Swiss cheese that did it I didn't
1:01:51know where he came from so I married
1:01:55this man who came from a wealthiest
1:01:58families from Czechoslovakia inherited
1:02:01his his grandfather's business great
1:02:05country and the Communists came they
1:02:08confiscated a business and they threw
1:02:11him in jail I'm a survivor I don't say
1:02:13why me immediately I said what now I put
1:02:18this in my little girl's diaper
1:02:21I took my big diamond ring and I went to
1:02:25the jail and I smuggled my husband out
1:02:29and we came to America penniless that's
1:02:32how that's how you see the survivor that
1:02:36you know what now what I can do and then
1:02:40you know I don't have time to feel sorry
1:02:43for myself but I never forget what
1:02:46happened
1:02:47but I don't live there it's my cherished
1:02:50bond yes yes
1:02:52when did your childhood and my childhood
1:02:56ended when when my mother stayed home on
1:03:11weekends and my father went out with his
1:03:16cronies to play billiards and I began to
1:03:25look at my mom as she is talking to her
1:03:30mother who died when she was nine years
1:03:34old she slept with her mother she died
1:03:41and she was buried right away and my
1:03:45mother was convinced that they put it
1:03:48her alive so I'm looking at mom taking
1:03:52care of her mom talking about PTSD I
1:03:55wanted my mother to give me the
1:03:57unconditional love and she was still
1:04:02holding on and I was there babysitting
1:04:07taking care of my mom as she was talking
1:04:11to me about Gone with the Wind and and
1:04:15that's how I think I became my mother's
1:04:20caretaker and I I want to tell her now
1:04:26that she introduced me to culture to to
1:04:32the books to the theater and so I'm very
1:04:38very very sorry
1:04:41she's not with me now and that's why I
1:04:45always ask people be a good mom to you
1:04:48ask questions before you do anything
1:04:51it's just really good for me and I also
1:04:55ask you to ask yourself before you say
1:04:58anything is it kind
1:05:00and if it's not kind don't say so get
1:05:07rid of yes but and say yes end because
1:05:12sometimes we say I see I hear that all
1:05:15the time you know Edie I finally clean
1:05:19my closet after 30 years but I didn't do
1:05:23my kitchen but I didn't do that
1:05:25you see and I say you know let's
1:05:28celebrate what is and get rid of the
1:05:32years but yes and yes and I'm here I'm
1:05:36alive
1:05:37and I do everything my power hopefully
1:05:40to be a good role model so when you are
1:05:4390 you're going to silly you know think
1:05:48about me as someone who's giving you an
1:05:51opportunity today to come here that may
1:05:55be a most important time in your life
1:05:59that you know you have a choice because
1:06:03the more choices you have the less you
1:06:06feel like a victim the last word of your
1:06:10book is the word free free I'm very
1:06:15biased on freedom I know that in
1:06:20Berkeley people like to ask questions
1:06:23and I don't know I think I think we're
1:06:28almost out of time what I would actually
1:06:30love to ask you you can say no but on
1:06:33behalf of the Berkeley audience we've
1:06:36been we've been told that you end your
1:06:37talks with with a ballet kick oh my god
1:06:41oh oh I don't know should I hold your
1:06:48hand
1:06:56[Music]
1:07:27you

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