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Dr. Corey DeAngelis on the Urgent Need for School Choice in America — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:01get ready to rumble
0:04shilling show unleashed on the seven
0:08thunders media network former city
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0:12husband father and community watchdog
0:16your host rob schilling
0:30[Music]
0:34welcome to the shilling show unleashed
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0:51appreciate
0:52your support today's edition of the
0:54shilling show unleash podcast is
0:56focusing on school choice
0:58what a concept something that's been
1:00whispered about by water coolers and in
1:02the depths of people's homes
1:04maybe in small group meetings but people
1:06are afraid it's
1:07almost the third rail of american
1:09politics
1:10but why has there been fear why have we
1:13allowed the teachers unions in the
1:15government schools to hold so much sway
1:17over our society and over our families
1:19and really and truthfully
1:21over the raising and upbringing of our
1:23children
1:24we have lots of problems in this country
1:26and i think you can draw
1:27a straight line between government
1:30schools
1:31and many of the problems in the country
1:33today
1:34these are societal issues it's because
1:36the schools have failed
1:38to positively indoctrinate people to
1:40love their country
1:41to be responsible citizens of the united
1:43states of america
1:44and to pass those concepts on to the
1:47next generation
1:48if you look around the world you'll find
1:50many places that allow the money to
1:51follow the child
1:53in other words i cannot be compelled to
1:55send my child to a government school i
1:57can take the money that would be set
1:58aside for that
1:59and direct it to the place i want it to
2:01be directed whether that's
2:02a private school a religious school or
2:05maybe even a home school
2:07yes this is being brought to the
2:08forefront because of covid and many
2:10people having their kids home have
2:12realized
2:12hey this is a different child now that
2:14they're home and they're out of this
2:15awful environment
2:16they get a chance once again to teach
2:19their children
2:19the things they want them to learn to
2:21keep them away from the dangerous
2:23concepts
2:24of sexuality and race that are being
2:26crammed down their throats by the
2:27government education system
2:29it's a very exciting time but it's also
2:31a frightening time because
2:33everyone sees the cards are on the table
2:35we know what the teachers unions want to
2:37do
2:37we know what the majority of teachers in
2:39government schools want to do
2:41not only for your children but to your
2:43children
2:44the evidence is clear it's time to make
2:47a choice
2:48we'll be talking with corey deangelis
2:49when the showing show unleashed
2:51continues
2:52in just a moment associated press
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4:00looking out for us
4:03rob the shilling show unleashed podcast
4:07continues and we welcome to the program
4:09corey deangelis
4:11national director of research at the
4:12american federation for
4:14children the executive director at the
4:16educational freedom institute
4:18and an adjunct scholar at the cato
4:20institute a senior fellow at the reason
4:22foundation and much more today's topic
4:24is school choice in america an idea
4:26whose time has come
4:28and corey deangelis welcome to the
4:29shilling show unleashed
4:31thank you so much for having me if you
4:33had to look at the present
4:35situation and the state of schooling in
4:38america today and let's focus first on
4:40government schooling
4:41what would you say about it well it's
4:43hit rock bottom over the past year as
4:45we've seen
4:46that they've these schools have
4:47continued to get people's education
4:49dollars
4:50regardless of how well they did
4:52regardless whether they even opened
4:53their doors for business you had the
4:56private schools
4:57since march 2020 fighting to reopen or
5:00had been
5:01open the entire time whereas the public
5:03school teachers unions had fought for
5:05the opposite had fought to remain closed
5:07every step of the way by
5:09changing the reopening goal posts and i
5:12think the difference there is one of
5:14incentives that one of these sectors
5:16gets your money regardless of whether
5:17they open their doors for business
5:19and i think a lot of families have
5:20figured this out over the past year in
5:22support for school choice
5:24or what i call funding students directly
5:26has soared over the past year
5:28you know it's interesting we're a
5:30homeschool family and we have kids on
5:32the street
5:32who are in the government schools but
5:34this year away
5:35has revealed something to the parents
5:37and certainly to my kids who play with
5:38these kids
5:39is that the kids after being away from
5:42these institutions
5:44are much nicer and much more at peace i
5:47found that fascinating
5:48yeah it depends on the individual family
5:51obviously but there have been
5:53nationwide surveys by an organization
5:56called
5:56edchoice in partnership with morning
5:59consult and they've asked families
6:01ever since the school closures started
6:04at around
6:05april 2020 every month asking them as a
6:08result of the school closures what are
6:10what are your views on homeschooling and
6:12how they changed
6:14every single survey that they've done
6:16they've found that families are now
6:18about twice as likely or more than twice
6:20as likely to say that they're now more
6:22favorable about
6:23views of homeschooling than they are to
6:25say that they're now less favorable than
6:27they were before
6:28and so i think yeah a lot of people who
6:30wouldn't have
6:31considered homeschooling before are
6:33starting to
6:35got a little bit of a taste of
6:36homeschooling and maybe they're more
6:37likely to support the idea
6:39uh and and maybe they have figured it
6:41figured out that they
6:42could that their family could do it in
6:44one way or another or maybe they figured
6:45out that
6:46they could learn twice the material in
6:49half the time if they're doing it at
6:50home and maybe they're they're they're
6:52figuring out that their children are
6:53more interested in topics
6:55if they're uh participating in
6:57self-directed learning
6:58so i think there's a lot of that but
7:00there have also obviously been
7:02families that have needed the in-person
7:04instruction
7:05as well but overall the the surveys that
7:08i've seen is that
7:09the views of homeschooling have gone up
7:11and then also if you look at the u.s
7:13census bureau data from the american
7:15pulse survey that they've done every
7:16week since the schools
7:18closed the they're estimating that about
7:2111 percent of households
7:23are homeschooling full-time not enrolled
7:26in the public system anymore
7:28which amounts to over a tripling of the
7:31homeschool population relative to
7:33pre-pandemic levels
7:34so there's a massive shift happening
7:37with people voting with their feet
7:38in addition to people changing their
7:41views about how they
7:43see the factory model of schooling and
7:45how they view
7:46how we fund education people are seeing
7:48that there's no good reason
7:49to fund closed buildings when you can
7:52fund the students directly instead i
7:54think
7:55you know when when other services closed
7:58over the last year if your grocery store
8:00closed for example or they didn't reopen
8:01for whatever reason
8:03it was painful but it wasn't devastating
8:06because
8:06people could take their money elsewhere
8:08in that case but when your school closes
8:11you're kind of stuck and i think
8:13families are
8:14starting to realize that well maybe i
8:16should be able to take my children's
8:18education dollars elsewhere in that case
8:21so there's been legislation in over 30
8:24states this year
8:26where legislators have introduced bills
8:28to
8:29fund students as opposed to the systems
8:31and
8:32at least a dozen of those bills have
8:34already been signed into law we expect
8:36victories in at least six more states
8:39we're talking with corey deangelis about
8:40school choice in america
8:42now you mentioned the closed school
8:44buildings and my question here and i've
8:46looked at it locally
8:48the budget didn't go down in fact it
8:49went up they're asking for a lot more
8:51money what happened to all of that money
8:53last year when
8:54all of these schools were closed and a
8:57lot of the work wasn't getting done
8:59they didn't know what the heck to do
9:00with the the money we have
9:02allocated through congress three
9:04different stimulus plans the first one
9:06was called the cares act about three
9:0813 billion dollars went to k-12
9:10education and on top of that we've
9:12already added about about 180 billion
9:15more
9:17that that is the first stimulus that's
9:20after the first stimulus hasn't even
9:21been completely spent yet
9:23the latest numbers that i've seen the
9:25majority of states haven't spent the
9:26majority of the first
9:28set of 13 billion dollars in cares act
9:30funding so they have more money than
9:32they know what to do with
9:33and i don't think it was really about
9:35safety and reopening schools
9:37and the reason for that partially is
9:40because the congressional budget office
9:42estimated that
9:43that schools won't even spend this money
9:45until through 2028
9:48with the majority of the money being
9:49spent after the school year so but if
9:51the money is supposed to be meant for
9:54reopening schools now
9:56why would the k-12 education system plan
9:59to spend that
10:00through 2028 much after we expect the
10:03pandemic to
10:04to be around and to be a big problem
10:08and then also the the u.s senate
10:11tried to pass an amendment to
10:14make that funding from the american
10:16rescue plan 120 billion dollars to k-12
10:19schools contingent upon actually
10:22reopening the schools that shouldn't
10:23have been a problem
10:24if the money was supposed to be meant
10:26for reopening schools but
10:28it it failed the amendment failed on a
10:30partisan 50-50 vote
10:32in the u.s senate so i don't think it's
10:34been about money i don't think it's been
10:36about
10:36uh actual safety concern or it has been
10:39about money hasn't been about actual
10:41safety concerns
10:42and there have been about six studies
10:45now that have found
10:46that places with stronger teachers
10:48unions were significantly less likely to
10:50reopen their public schools all else
10:52equal after controlling for a ton of
10:53demographic characteristics in the area
10:56but studies have also found that the
10:58local politics
11:00in the area the the more the the bluer
11:02the area was the less likely the schools
11:04were
11:04or to reopen in person and so
11:07the the takeaway there in addition to
11:11that finding in in these other studies
11:13have found
11:14that covid risk in the area as measured
11:17by
11:17covid cases per capita and deaths per
11:20capita
11:21were not related to the reopening
11:23decisions of schools so the takeaway
11:25there is that the
11:26entire school reopening debate has been
11:28more about
11:29politics and power dynamics than safety
11:31and the needs of students
11:33so if we're looking at all of this money
11:35these the piles of money coming from
11:37taxpayers and future generations
11:40where is the accountability is there
11:42anybody who's taking oversight of all
11:44this money
11:45well as i said with the american rescue
11:47plan they couldn't even get
11:49um oversight to to make
11:52to make the federal funding contingent
11:54upon actually reopening the schools so i
11:56think
11:56if there is much accountability there's
11:59not much at all i think they're
12:00the only way to truly introduce
12:04accountability into the k-12 public
12:06school system or any
12:07school system in general would be to
12:10fund the students directly to allow for
12:12bottom-up accountability all these
12:14forms of top-down accountability don't
12:17really work
12:18because they amount to a form of box
12:20checking that that
12:22and rules that institutions can figure
12:24out how to get around for example in
12:27san francisco in california governor
12:30newsom
12:31had an initiative a type of carrot
12:34to incentivize the public schools in the
12:38state to reopen because
12:40as we all know california drug its feet
12:42as long as possible longer than just
12:44about any other state
12:45even though they spend about 38 percent
12:48they spend about 30 percent
12:49more than states like florida who who
12:52got
12:53which got open right away
12:56but he introduced this incentive about
12:59two billion dollars
13:00extra to to reopen schools by a certain
13:03date
13:04the san francisco teachers unions
13:06figured out that they could reopen
13:07for just one day for one grade just for
13:10seniors
13:11uh before that deadline so they can
13:14secure the funding
13:15but that's not exactly what what
13:18families actually wanted they would they
13:19would have liked to have
13:21the schools to have been open the
13:23full-time so that families could have
13:25that option of in-person versus remote
13:27the entire time
13:28but because the incentive came from the
13:31top
13:31down it was a form of box checking and
13:33the unions figured out a way to get
13:35around it to do the least work possible
13:37to get the most
13:38benefit a better way of holding schools
13:40accountable is just give the money to
13:42the parents and if the schools don't
13:43open they can vote with their feet and
13:44go somewhere else to the private schools
13:46that were more than happy
13:48to open their doors for business cory
13:50you've talked a lot about teachers
13:52unions i want to ask you how they became
13:54so powerful
13:55and is there any way to break their hold
13:57over the system because they're
13:58obviously destructive
14:00yeah one of the ways they've become so
14:02powerful is that we have this
14:03school system that that has geographic
14:06monopolies
14:07you live in a particular household in
14:09america in general this is the case with
14:11the education system and you're assigned
14:13to a particular school just based on
14:16where you live
14:17and if you don't like it you can pay out
14:19of pocket
14:21for a private school tuition and fees
14:23which is amounts to paying for two
14:24schools but only getting the benefit of
14:26one
14:27or you can move houses to a better
14:29neighborhood that's assigned to a better
14:31public school but both
14:32all of these but both of those things
14:34have high transaction costs
14:36just imagine if you didn't like your
14:39restaurant
14:40for or grocery store that you live live
14:42near and
14:43in order to vote with your feet and stop
14:45paying that that grocery store
14:46restaurant you had to
14:48move your house or or pay out of pocket
14:50for
14:51for double the services but only
14:53receiving half of this
14:55one set of services that would be highly
14:58costly and
14:59it would lead to significant monopoly
15:02power
15:03for the institution that you were
15:05assigned to so similarly we have this
15:07problem with k-12 education where
15:09the provider of the service has much
15:12more power
15:13than the customer and it's completely
15:15backwards of how a
15:16normal free market should operate and so
15:19this leads to
15:21pretty much zero accountability for the
15:23teachers unions because they can lobby
15:25for policies that hurt families
15:27and if families don't have the means to
15:29exit those
15:30institutions in a timely manner then
15:34um the teachers unions don't really have
15:36to
15:37lobby for policies that actually work
15:39for these families that's one of the
15:41reasons another reason is that they
15:42lobby policies that lead to more people
15:45in in the system so overall
15:48we've seen huge increases in
15:50administrative bloat and staffing surges
15:52we have
15:53just a few years ago the number of
15:57support staff and administrators
15:59combined
16:00have outnumbered for the first time
16:03and and still do the number of teachers
16:06in the system and we have about
16:08over six six million public school
16:11employees in the united states
16:13the the two largest the largest labor
16:16union in the
16:16united states happens to be the national
16:18education association
16:20uh which is the largest teachers union
16:22in the us
16:23and so they have a lot of power in
16:25numbers and
16:26and revenues because the more union
16:29members you have the more union
16:31dues that are being paid if you look
16:35over time
16:36you you'll see that the unions have
16:39prioritized
16:40putting more people into the buildings
16:42than actually putting more money into
16:43the classrooms for the students for
16:45example between
16:461992 and 2014 ben scaffedy did a report
16:50he's a an economist at the
16:52kennesaw state university and he found
16:54that over that time period
16:57real inflation adjusted per pupil
16:59education expenditures increased by 27
17:01percent
17:02but at the same time real teacher
17:04salaries actually dropped by two percent
17:07so we're throwing more and more money at
17:09the problem but it's going towards
17:11putting more people in the buildings and
17:13more administrators in the buildings
17:14which leads
17:15uh to the benefits for union bosses
17:19in having more political power numbers
17:21and union dues
17:22but not so much in terms of benefits for
17:24individual teachers in the system
17:27and uh families who who would rather
17:29that
17:30funding go towards their students in the
17:32classroom you talk about
17:34the options and for people that don't
17:36move and stay
17:38they're being forced not only to pay
17:40twice but to pay once to something that
17:42many people find
17:43ultimately destruction of our society of
17:47their own kids
17:48or their neighbors kids and there seems
17:50to be no way out i mean we don't have a
17:52choice
17:53presently do we in the current system
17:56for the most part we don't have that
17:58much choice but
18:00there are a good number of states that
18:02have access to either voucher programs
18:05charter schools tax credit scholarships
18:08education savings accounts and all these
18:11in one form or another what how how
18:14i would define school choice programs or
18:16or what i would call
18:17funding students directly the idea is
18:20that we have a set amount of funding
18:22that goes towards
18:23traditional schools that you're
18:24residentially assigned to
18:26and a portion of that funding should
18:28follow the child if not all of it
18:30to wherever they're getting an education
18:32it could be the public school could be a
18:33charter school it could be
18:35a a magnet school or
18:38a private school or a home home based
18:41option including
18:42pandemic pods or micro schools where the
18:45funding follows a child to wherever
18:46they're getting an education
18:48and i think that's the preagnum shift
18:50that we've seen over the past
18:51year that three nationwide surveys have
18:54found that support for
18:56school choice or funding students
18:58directly has increased substantially for
19:00example the latest
19:01real clear opinion research polling has
19:03found that between last spring and this
19:05spring
19:06support for school choice jumped by
19:08seven percentage points from 64
19:10last spring to 71 support among the
19:13general public
19:14this spring with higher uh amounts of
19:16support among school-aged parents
19:18and then there's two others ones from
19:21morning consult
19:22finding increases in support for charter
19:24schools voucher programs tax credit
19:26scholarship programs
19:27and education savings accounts and the
19:30money of
19:31the idea of the money following the
19:32child should be pretty basic it's this
19:35idea of funding students not systems the
19:38reason that i argue for this
19:39is that education funding is supposed to
19:42be meant for educating children not for
19:44propping up and protecting
19:46a particular institution we already do
19:49this with so many other taxpayer-funded
19:51initiatives for example
19:52with higher education we have pell
19:53grants for low-income students in the gi
19:55bill and other taxpayer-funded
19:57scholarships
19:58where the funding goes to the student
20:00and they can choose the public provider
20:02or public university if they want but
20:04they could also choose
20:05a private religious or non-religious
20:07university the funding follows the
20:09decision of the student
20:10same thing when it comes to pre-k we
20:12have things like the federal head start
20:14program and other state-funded
20:16taxpayer-funded pre-k initiatives where
20:19the funding
20:19rightfully goes to the families and they
20:21can then then choose to go take that
20:23money to a public or private religious
20:25or non-religious provider or pre-k
20:27services
20:28we do the same thing with so many other
20:30industries too where the funding follows
20:32the
20:32individual with medicaid dollars you can
20:34take that those dollars to a public or
20:36private even a
20:37catholic hospital you do the same thing
20:39with section 8 housing vouchers
20:41and food stamps the food stamp funding
20:44doesn't go directly to a residentially
20:45assigned government-run grocery store
20:47and i think everybody would find that
20:49ridiculous instead
20:50the money goes to the family and they
20:52can choose walmart or whole foods or
20:54trader joe's or safeway or publix
20:57the funding follows the decision of the
20:58person and what's interesting to me is
21:01a lot of the people who support all of
21:02these other taxpayer-funded initiatives
21:04where we fund people instead of
21:06buildings
21:06they get all up in arms only when it
21:08comes to k-12 education
21:10not for higher ed not for pre-k not for
21:12grocery stores
21:14only when it comes to higher k-12
21:16education
21:17do they get upset about this and i think
21:19the only difference here is one of power
21:21dynamics
21:22choice is the norm when it comes to
21:24groceries in just about any other
21:25industry and it's also the norm in any
21:27other level of education with higher
21:28education pre-k
21:30but choice threatens and entrenched
21:32special interest that is the teachers
21:34unions
21:34only when it comes to k-12 education
21:37they would
21:38rather you that not have that choice
21:40because otherwise they'd be able to get
21:42your children's education dollars
21:44regardless of that choice so cory i've
21:46been concerned over the years in
21:47interviewing politicians here in
21:49virginia and and i'm sure they were well
21:51intentioned
21:52but when they put forward a school
21:54choice or a voucher program
21:56they would always tailor it to uh to
21:59low-income groups in other words they
22:01said well let's let's get our toe in the
22:03water first
22:04and then we'll expand it which i'm
22:06always concerned at that approach i
22:07think it needs to be taken broadly at
22:09the very beginning in other words we're
22:10going to provide this for everybody
22:12and i want to get your take on that yeah
22:14i think you're right we should go
22:16universal i understand the other side's
22:18argument that you know you want to get
22:20something in
22:21first then it'll expand and we have seen
22:23programs that have started small expand
22:25over time
22:26and for example florida just signed into
22:28law their biggest expansion
22:30of their school choice laws in the in
22:32the state's history so it can be done
22:34where you can ex
22:35you can start smaller and expand but my
22:38approach and i think a lot of other
22:40school choice approach groups of
22:41advocacy groups approach would be to
22:44start big there's no reason
22:47not to introduce a bill that's available
22:50to everybody ever we pay for public
22:52education for everybody no matter what
22:54your income is
22:55and so we have that funding allocated
22:58for every single student
22:59it should follow every single student
23:01regardless of your background
23:02to wherever you're getting education
23:04perhaps you have some weights for
23:06perhaps the least advantage get higher
23:08amounts of funding than the
23:10most advantage but you should include
23:12everybody from the get-go and the reason
23:14for that is because
23:16it you don't want to come into a a a
23:20negotiation with the other side
23:22starting small because then they'll
23:24dwindle it down even further
23:25but perhaps you start universal and and
23:28then you have a better place to start
23:31your your bargaining
23:32with with the bill but then secondly
23:35when you dwindle it down you don't get a
23:37lot of support from the other side a lot
23:39of people might
23:40argue that that well if you if you make
23:42it only for low-income students the
23:43democrats are going to support it
23:45uh it's very rarely the case when
23:48dwindling down the bill actually gets
23:50support from the democrats to vote
23:52for uh the school choice policy
23:55so you and and then when you do that
23:57when you dwindle it down you lose
23:59the support of your constituents
24:01whenever
24:02i share particular bills that are being
24:06discussed across the country and my
24:09followers for example
24:10see that it's that they're not included
24:13they don't they're not as riled up about
24:15the bill and they're not they're not
24:16going to be as likely
24:18to call their legislators to support the
24:20bill
24:21and so when when you do know it down you
24:23don't make the other side happy but at
24:24the same time you lose support on your
24:26side so you might as well
24:27build your base and get your side
24:29excited about it
24:30by including everybody especially when
24:34we're already paying for public
24:35education for
24:37uh everybody in society so everybody
24:40should be able to
24:41take advantage of a program that's being
24:44considered
24:45and i will say not all school choice
24:47programs are targeted based on income
24:49for example if you look at west virginia
24:52they just passed the most expansive
24:54education
24:55savings account program in the nation
24:57and then they didn't have any private
24:58school choice or even any
25:00charter schools on the ground last year
25:02so they essentially went from zero to
25:04100 and i think that that
25:08more states should follow their lead and
25:10i think their
25:11programs not income targeted but it's
25:14not available to
25:15a hundred percent of the population but
25:17it'll get there it's it's over
25:1992 percent of the population is
25:22already eligible for the west virginia
25:25program so more states should take that
25:26more
25:27universal broad-based approach to
25:30maximize
25:32likelihood of of the the bill
25:35ultimately passing and then the
25:37likelihood of of
25:39getting broad support for the program so
25:41beside west virginia
25:42what other state would be the top state
25:44and maybe has a track record of doing
25:46this or we could look back and see how
25:47it's worked
25:48i would say the two best states for
25:50school choice right now are arizona and
25:52florida
25:53as i said florida just passed the bill
25:55that's going to be a huge expansion
25:57an automatic escalator increasing that
25:59income cap
26:00each and every year unless it gets
26:02reversed in the by a future
26:04administration
26:05so florida's already doing a good job
26:07and then they're expanding their
26:09programs
26:10massively after this year and then
26:12arizona has
26:13a wide range of charter school options
26:16i believe 20 percent of their school age
26:19population is attending charter schools
26:22so they have a huge charter school
26:23market and relatively unregulated free
26:26market approach in arizona
26:28and then they also have several private
26:30school choice initiatives including
26:32education savings accounts which
26:34for listeners if you aren't familiar
26:36with education savings accounts
26:37they're kind of like the voucher where
26:39the funding that would've went straight
26:41to the government institution
26:42follows the child in the in the that and
26:45can be used for private school tuition
26:47and fees but in addition to that
26:49the education savings account allows
26:50families to use the funding for home
26:52based instruction
26:54online learning tutoring special needs
26:56educational therapies
26:58and any government approved education
27:01expenditure it's not only limited
27:03limited to
27:03private school tuition and fees so those
27:06states are great and then another big
27:08win this year
27:09was in kentucky they passed what's going
27:12to be the second largest
27:14edu behind west virginia second largest
27:17education savings account program in the
27:19nation and
27:20that that was an interesting fight in
27:22kentucky because their governor andy
27:24beshear a democrat
27:26vetoed the the bill which was a school
27:29choice bill and and what was interesting
27:31there is that he
27:32he actually attended private school
27:34himself and sent his kids to private
27:36school but then he turned around and
27:38vetoed a bill that would have allowed
27:39other families to have access to
27:41educational choice
27:42but luckily or thankfully the
27:46kentucky legislature had the votes to
27:48overturn his veto
27:49so those are a couple states to look at
27:52i always
27:52tell people to look at arizona and
27:54florida for for things that they've
27:55already done
27:56already had in place that have worked
27:58successfully on the ground
28:00finally corey in places like virginia
28:02that is run by democrats and they're
28:04they're making things worse and not
28:06better is there any hope or any path of
28:08direction
28:09for our listeners today who want to get
28:11involved but are not sure how
28:13yeah i would say contact your
28:14legislators to tell them that you care
28:16about this issue if the
28:18legislators are only hearing from the
28:19teachers unions they're going to
28:22that's an easy calculus for them in
28:23their head if they hear that
28:26from from one side that school choice is
28:27bad but then don't hear from parents and
28:29families people who are actually
28:31mostly affected by these by these
28:33programs
28:34since their kids are the ones that can
28:36use them and and who are
28:38struggling in the current government-run
28:40school system they need to hear from
28:41families
28:42and i i think if there's enough pressure
28:44that's applied from families
28:46and families become their own special
28:48interest group and advocate for their
28:49children
28:50you might change the minds of
28:52legislators and then also
28:53i think for if republicans start making
28:56school choice
28:57a republican issue which are i think it
28:59already
29:00is at this point but they hold on
29:03stronger to
29:04school choice republicans have a lot to
29:06gain here because
29:08it's a perfect wedge issue that it
29:10should be a non-partisan issue it's just
29:12the power dynamics play out in a way to
29:14where
29:15the democrats receive a lot of their
29:17campaign contributions from the teachers
29:19unions if you look nationally from the
29:20american federation
29:22of teachers for example 99 of their
29:25campaign contributions went to democrats
29:27in the most recent election cycle
29:28that's part of the reason why democrats
29:31in office have been voting against
29:33even though their constituents
29:34overwhelmingly support school choice
29:36policies so
29:37republicans start to call that out and
29:40make it a
29:41a voting issue for their constituents
29:44they might be able to take some of the
29:46voters on the margin
29:47and then if that happens i think
29:50democrats will have an even stronger
29:51incentive once
29:52democrats in office to
29:56change their minds about how they vote
29:58for
29:59or against school choice going forward
30:01so i think that's a good path forward
30:04if republicans start to dig into school
30:06choice even deeper
30:08democrats may follow that would be a
30:10wonderful thing corey deangelis if
30:11people would like to be in touch with
30:12you or get more information on the work
30:14that you do how can they
30:16you can follow me on twitter it's at
30:17deangeliscory
30:19but then also my website is federation
30:22for children dot org that's the american
30:25federation for children website
30:26federation for children.org
30:28core deangelis thank you so much for
30:30joining us today on the shilling show
30:31unleash podcast thank you so much for
30:34having me that concludes another edition
30:36of the chilling show
30:37unleashed podcast visit us online at
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