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DPS Manager / Flint Blame | MiWeek Full Episode — Transcript

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0:00a conversation with DPS transition
0:03manager Judge Steven Rhoads the state
0:05gets blamed for the Flint water crisis
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1:07and welcome to my week thanks so much
1:09for joining us I'm Christy McDonald it
1:11has been another week of major news a
1:13terrorist attack in Belgium a stinging
1:16report from the Flint water task force
1:18and a continuing debate over a financial
1:20rescue package for Detroit Public
1:22Schools we will offer viewpoints on all
1:24of these stories for you tonight but
1:26let's start with Detroit Public Schools
1:27the state Senate has approved a 715
1:29million dollar plan to bail out dps but
1:32the legislation faces a tougher battle
1:34in the house DPS transition manager
1:36Judge Steven Rhodes is here to talk
1:38about finances and much more of course
1:40we have our my way contributors Nolan
1:42Finley of the Detroit News and Stephen
1:43Henderson of the Detroit Free Press
1:45gentleman's good to see you judge Rhodes
1:47welcome to my week it's good to have you
1:49here thank you it's nice to be here all
1:51right before we start talking about
1:52everything finances with with a DPS how
1:55the teachers are feeling and kind of
1:57where we go from here you know you
1:59retired from a very high-profile
2:01position him you presided over the
2:03largest municipal bankruptcy in US
2:05history and people would say that's
2:07probably one of the toughest jobs that
2:08you ever had but now you stepped into
2:11this role as transition manager at dps
2:13what was the first phone call or first
2:15couple phone calls you got doing this
2:16and what was the thought about even
2:18taking this job well the governor asked
2:21me to do it and he can be very
2:22persuasive and and also I was thinking
2:27about the children of the of the city of
2:28Detroit I said when I confirmed the
2:33city's plan that the city itself would
2:37only succeed if the schools succeeded
2:39and so there's work to be done with the
2:44schools and since the governor asked me
2:46to and I felt this was a to contribute
2:50to the future success of the city that
2:52this is something I should do so now you
2:54have parents now in Detroit Public
2:55Schools saying all right what's his
2:57management going to be any different
2:58than what we've seen from emergency
3:00management in the past ten years that is
3:03a frequent question that I get and I
3:05appreciate the question there are two
3:07major differences the first is that I
3:10view my role as a transition leader and
3:13that's why I've asked to be called a
3:15transition manager rather than an
3:17emergency manager
3:18and and and so the concept is to
3:21transition leadership of public
3:26education in Detroit from emergency
3:29management to local control again I
3:31believe in local control unfortunately
3:34we can't just flip the switch there has
3:36to be a process and so the governor
3:38asked me to lead that process back to
3:40local control and that's that's the task
3:43that that I embrace the other difference
3:45is in this process of transitioning to
3:50local control I am committed to an open
3:54honest accessible responsive responsible
3:59process I want everyone who has a stake
4:03in the future of Detroit education to be
4:08involved in this process to the extent
4:10they want to be and I'm committed to
4:12that and I'm involving teachers parents
4:15I want to involve the community this has
4:18to be an open process I believe in in
4:21democracy and this is the way to make
4:25democracy work between now and when we
4:28do return it to local control the bill
4:31that passed the state Senate this this
4:33week would have us have elections school
4:36board elections in August that board
4:37would take immediate control of the
4:40district that's strange timing though
4:42for the school year I mean the schools
4:46would reopen in September what are the
4:48things you would have to do to make it
4:49possible for the first elected board in
4:53almost 15 years to have complete control
4:55of the district and be able to manage
4:58through what still is a pretty rocky
5:01rocky time well probably the number one
5:06thing to do to set up the new district
5:10for success is to have a budget and so
5:13we are working very hard on the budget
5:15for the next school year beyond that of
5:18course the budget that we are
5:21establishing needs to be a balanced
5:24budget we cannot condone deficit budgets
5:30for the Detroit Public Schools
5:32any longer it sits that problem that got
5:34us where we are today the legislation is
5:38essential to a balanced budget because
5:43we we have been spending too much of our
5:46income on debt service exactly so so
5:50those are the keys beyond that bringing
5:52in Alicia Mary where the weather as our
5:55superintendent is a major step towards
5:58success of the Detroit Public Schools
6:01and I intend to do what I can to set up
6:04the central office for success in the
6:07future is you know do you anticipate
6:08having to close more schools in the in
6:12the city by September well we are
6:15examining that but but I'm a little bit
6:18conflicted there Stephen frankly closing
6:21schools is a very challenging subject
6:24there are many factors that that that
6:27have to be considered and of course
6:30there are the financial factors and the
6:31performance factors but it has to be a
6:34process that involves everyone who is
6:37affected by potential school closings
6:39I'm not sure we actually have the time
6:42to do that between now and the next
6:44school year and and more than that I
6:47have this sense that that's a process
6:50that that should be managed by the next
6:54school board by the people who the
6:59citizens elect to be in charge of the
7:02school system so the legislature got out
7:04of town without approving the rescue
7:07package for the schools is there no
7:09they're gone on spring break is there
7:11enough time left now to head off the
7:14April payless paydays that you warned
7:17about we need approximately 50 million
7:21dollars from the legislature in order to
7:25finish this this school year if that
7:28does not happen then we will go dark
7:33after april eighth and that's
7:35unfathomable I don't know how we as a
7:37society can allow that to happen it'll
7:39be almost april eight the time they get
7:41back and start deliberating again so is
7:45there any other means of keeping these
7:47schools open without it without that
7:49money I've examined that question Nolan
7:53and I cannot ask the teachers to work
7:55without assuring them that I have the
7:58money to pay them so I don't I don't
8:00have a plan B so you'd shut down III
8:03don't have a plan B what is your
8:05experience been in lobbying legislators
8:08to get the plan on board for GPS because
8:10as we see from the Senate plan is very
8:11far away from what the house has
8:12recommended in terms of looking at local
8:15control and looking at the Detroit
8:16Education Commission as well what has
8:18your experience been and speaking with
8:20people in Lansing and especially these
8:22lawmakers or who are not in the Detroit
8:24area well the legislators the
8:28legislators ask very legitimate
8:31questions and and we hope we have been
8:33able to provide sufficient answers to
8:36them I would say the number one question
8:38that they have I is how can we be sure
8:41that this won't happen again in five
8:44years ten years or or whatever and as I
8:46say that's a very legitimate very
8:49legitimate question and what it comes
8:51down to is is district leadership we
8:54have to have the right leaders in place
8:56and and ultimately that becomes a
9:00question of trusting the voters in
9:03Detroit to make the right decisions when
9:06they go to the ballot box in electing
9:09school board members and here i want to
9:12point out that when the legislature
9:16adopted and and and bought into the
9:21grand bargain that was such a key
9:22feature of the detroit case that was an
9:25expression of their support for
9:29democracy in the city of Detroit their
9:31expression that they trust the voters of
9:34Detroit to continue to elect leaders who
9:38will make the right decisions to keep
9:39baton the right path and so now that now
9:44that we're here we need to and we need
9:47to ask the legislature to to reaffirm
9:50that trust in in the voters of Detroit
9:53in in the judgments they make about
9:55school board leadership there's no
9:58reason to believe we can't trust the
10:00people of Detroit they've they've
10:04elected good leadership here in the city
10:06and and I trust that they will elect
10:08good leaders for the school board as
10:10well that's what's what it comes down to
10:12I've said it so many times democracy is
10:15not a spectator sport the people of the
10:17city of Detroit have got to have got to
10:20take a proactive role in the management
10:24and leadership and direction of the
10:27schools of the city of Detroit do you
10:30feel like it once we get to the school
10:33board being back in charge of the
10:36district if you can deliver them a
10:38balanced budget to begin work with it
10:42what's the prospect for that being
10:44successful going forward i mean the the
10:46system still seems to be maybe losing
10:49kids not as fast as it was before as we
10:53talked about before there are still
10:54these over capacity issues are they
10:58being set up for failure again if we
11:00don't make dramatic change I don't sense
11:03that at all Steve and I I sense a new
11:07spirit a new enthusiasm a new energy
11:10about public education in Detroit we
11:14have a very strong dedicated and
11:17committed group of teachers these these
11:21teachers are really the unsung heroes of
11:23public education in Detroit they have
11:28endured for five or six or seven years
11:34no pay increases in fact for many of
11:38them more than one ten percent pay cut
11:40so by just sticking around they have
11:43demonstrated their their commitment to
11:45these kids and and so I my sense is that
11:50if we can eliminate the necessity to pay
11:541100 dollars per kid and put that back
11:59into the classroom that that public
12:02education in Detroit will be able to
12:05succeed it will be able to
12:06compete and we'll be able to win in that
12:10competition look I not not only have our
12:13of our enrollment losses begun to
12:17decline and very substantially so our
12:22graduation rate which was just announced
12:24has has gone up dramatically and is now
12:27just short of the of the state average
12:30and and we have seven high schools with
12:33graduation rates in excess of ninety
12:35percent including one that was a hundred
12:38percent Davis aerospace so I sense a
12:43real turnaround in in the kind of energy
12:46and enthusiasm that it's going to take
12:48to make the Detroit schools successful
12:51so you so you look at this this district
12:53and the trouble that's been through and
12:55the financial blunders it's made in the
12:57past and under state state management
12:59the financial troubles it's endured what
13:02sort of ongoing oversight will be
13:05appropriate for the Detroit Public
13:08Schools which seems to be where the
13:09legislature is hung up on how much
13:11control they hang on to where the state
13:14hangs on to after it returns to an
13:16elected school board I think that a
13:19strong Financial Review Commission is
13:22entirely appropriate that and it
13:24especially so for schools and why do I
13:26say that there's there's a much
13:28overlooked provision in our Michigan
13:31Constitution and it says that the
13:34legislature the legislature shall
13:37provide for the free public education of
13:40children in our state that's a that's an
13:43awesome responsibility that the
13:45Constitution puts on the legislature it
13:47doesn't put it on the local school board
13:49it doesn't put it on the city doesn't
13:51put it on anyone other than the
13:53legislature so so for me the Financial
13:57Review Commission is one of the tools
14:00that the legislature has to help it
14:05fulfill its constitutional duty so I
14:08support a Financial Review Commission
14:10and and I think that our experience with
14:14the city of Detroit Financial Review
14:16Commission has established at least so
14:19far they
14:20can play a valuable role in the
14:23revitalization of the school system
14:25itself so so so I support it when you
14:30leave this transition role what would
14:32you like to see have done I know that
14:33you have a contract that will go until
14:35sep tember that is if the money comes
14:37through for dps when you step back from
14:40this role what would you like to see
14:42achieved I plan to help people identify
14:50the strongest possible candidates to run
14:53for school board in the in the past it's
14:59been hard to motivate high-quality
15:03highly experienced people to serve in in
15:06this position but but we need to turn
15:08that around so so I to work on that even
15:12while I'm in this role and and once i'm
15:17done i plan to let the school board to
15:20to run it and i plan to get back to my
15:24plan my personal plan from three years
15:26ago which was to retire all right well
15:30dps transition manager and retired
15:32Bankruptcy Judge Steven Rose thank you
15:34so much for joining us and we look
15:36forward to hearing how things transpire
15:38in the next few weeks well thank you for
15:40having me I appreciate it very much
15:42continuing our conversation now by
15:44Detroit Public Schools after a judge
15:45Rhodes has left us I think it's very
15:47interesting Nolan that he's talking
15:48about one of his main jobs is also
15:50making sure that the right people are
15:52the best people for the job make himself
15:54available to run for school board why is
15:56it so crucial to convince Detroiters
15:59that they are going to have a school
16:01board that's not of the school board of
16:02twenty years ago that people keep
16:04parking back David 10 I mean it's it's
16:06vital that you have good strong silent
16:08leadership it well this won't work
16:10otherwise if you if we go back to the
16:13sort of school board we've seen in the
16:15past year where you know we've had
16:17illiterate saan the board we've had
16:19perverts on the board we have people who
16:21are self-interested this has to be an
16:24independent competent board if it's in
16:26the pocket of the union's it's not going
16:28to work if the folks are our go back to
16:31handing out contracts you know to ever
16:33to
16:33friends and family it's not going to
16:35work that's how this district got in
16:36trouble in the first okay but it's April
16:38now it's April and you're looking about
16:39having an election in August don't you
16:41find the right people because a job
16:43that's a think the timeline here is not
16:46the the likelihood of you producing a
16:50crop of candidates that that's going to
16:52be about the right things and can can
16:56campaign and raise enough money to you
16:59know to win at the ballot box is really
17:02though I also have a sort of
17:04philosophical problem with the idea of
17:06this election we have an elected school
17:09board in the city of Detroit that board
17:12its term is not just over in august i
17:16mean i'm not sure what mechanism were
17:18even using to say well those people are
17:20dismissed now a lot of those people are
17:22wackadoodle characters and whatnot but
17:25they were elected by the people and it's
17:29also true that they haven't governed I
17:31mean these are not the people who
17:32screwed up the district they haven't
17:33been in control for a single day since
17:35they've been elected but they ran for a
17:37position knowing that they wouldn't be
17:39governing illegal day but but figuring
17:41that someday democracy would be restored
17:44and people voted for them thinking that
17:45I'm not sure you can just abrogate that
17:48well that election or those elections in
17:51favor of this new and that doesn't seem
17:52like if you don't there's no point doing
17:54this because then it's this district is
17:56gone you've got to have good response so
17:59here's to make up the rule and you have
18:01people out there Sheila cockrel and Irv
18:05read at Wayne State are working on
18:07trying to develop talent and to also
18:10educate the community on what qualities
18:13they're going to need a new school
18:15littered leaders leadership is going to
18:16be essential this is let's see oh oh is
18:18it ok to make up the rules to do that
18:20and to say well the the elections that
18:23took place just don't matter when wiping
18:26my own you think that is a real problem
18:27if they're up there operating in the
18:29emergency manager law they've got broad
18:31powers to dismiss the school board
18:34though well it may be uncomfortable yeah
18:36no they don't the emergency manager law
18:38doesn't allow that it doesn't allow the
18:40dissolution of elected bodies that's the
18:44this is all made up out of
18:47thing I mean I think they're probably
18:48relying on the idea that they're
18:49creating a new district well being a law
18:51Steve so I mean they'll create the frame
18:53where I have a real problem I'm before
18:56we before we end our conversation here I
18:58want to talk a little bit about these
18:59potential for payless paydays for the
19:01teachers or the fact that Steven Rhodes
19:03said I'm not going to ask the teachers
19:05to work if they are not going to get
19:07paid and right now we're looking at
19:08we're still won't have moving for that
19:09supplemental funding about 48 million
19:11dollars at the district needs do we need
19:14to have that day where teachers don't
19:16show up the entire district is shut down
19:18for any kind of more movement to come
19:21out of this well I mean that's a
19:23disaster situation and you talk about
19:25losing enrollment I think that would
19:28really exasperate that problem I would
19:31have preferred the legislature got that
19:34supplemental bill done but you know
19:36that's just pushing the deadline down
19:38the road they would have come back and
19:39then bargained again and and and and you
19:42have stalled again until the next
19:43deadline came there's huge philosophical
19:46differences on the how the district is
19:50going to be managed and operated going
19:52out of this and how much oversight the
19:53state's going to have and how much
19:55control this Detroit Education
19:58Commission is going to have to pick and
19:59choose which schools closed and which
20:01schools open and I don't see them
20:03resolving that in a hurry I was in
20:06resolving it in her either and i think
20:08the opposition here has got to be called
20:10out on what's going on I mean there's an
20:12awful lot of paternalism that's driving
20:15this this idea that that people
20:17Republicans from out state know what
20:19what Detroit and Detroiters ought to be
20:22doing with their schools there is a lot
20:25of anti-union bias that's driving this
20:28somehow now unions can't operate in
20:32Detroit the same way they do in other
20:33school districts and there's you know
20:36there's a racist component here I mean
20:38again this this is the way that we have
20:42treated Detroit as a state for a really
20:45long time is not I'm it's not a mystery
20:47or not irrelevant that it's the largest
20:52black controlled city in the in the
20:55state and they these guys ought to be
20:57ashamed of themselves for some of the
20:58stuff that they're saying and
21:00the stuff that they're doing it's
21:01reprehensible and we're not going to get
21:04anywhere as long as that's going today
21:05do they go behind the excuse Nolan of
21:07well if you want our money then you have
21:09to play by our rules their money it's
21:11not an excuse I mean they are committing
21:13a great deal of money and that money no
21:15matter where they say they're getting it
21:17whether it's the tobacco settlement fund
21:18or bonds or what have you that money is
21:22ultimately coming out of every other
21:25school district in in the state and so
21:28they have an obligation to their own
21:30communities and the voters across the
21:32state to put some oversight on that
21:35being given any money this is money that
21:37they ran up so the state's responsible
21:41for its money coming out of the federal
21:43or the state treasury but to use but
21:45hold on but to use that as predicate to
21:47punish Detroiters who had nothing to do
21:49with running up that debt is again I
21:51don't think there's other saltation
21:53shares that there's a girl on here it's
21:55absurd I mean they're not just going to
21:57release that money and say go ahead so
21:59bad for anybody would argue against
22:00having oversight well they certainly are
22:03that's where that's the dispute and a
22:04little ran up the debt we didn't do it
22:06they did oh that will come on Steve two
22:08billion of that debt was wrought the
22:11veterans but that's not everything
22:12really if two billion dollars was raised
22:15to end backed by that they're not giving
22:17us that money to be spent on fixing the
22:19schools and the schools never got fixed
22:20and then so there is some concern in the
22:22legislature about what happens to the
22:24money all right well we'll have to see
22:26what happens now in this this next week
22:28attorney something we can all not agree
22:29on to the Flint water crisis a new
22:32report by an independent task force
22:33appointed by Governor Snyder concludes
22:34the state is to blame for the lead
22:36contamination of the city's drinking
22:37water the report places primary
22:39responsibility on Flint's emergency
22:41managers and the Michigan Department of
22:43Environmental Quality recommends a
22:45review of the emergency manager law and
22:47the creation of a toxic exposure
22:49registry containing all the people
22:51living in Flint over the past two years
22:52so basically they could have done one
22:54page and bent like everybody's screwed
22:56up here's the report but in paragraph
22:59really especially you governor's really
23:02probably me about the state whereas
23:04there has been this conversation of the
23:06blame has to go around and yes the blame
23:08does go around but he said where Lee he
23:10said yesterday no they said quit saying
23:13that
23:14quit quit trying to disperse the blame
23:17here most of it sits with the Department
23:20of Environmental Quality and and that
23:24reports up to the governor I mean they
23:26were very clear about that the blame was
23:27widespread and deep and basically what
23:29it celibate opening sentences that
23:31government failed at every level and it
23:33did here it fell the feds fail certainly
23:36you know we've been looking at the Flint
23:38city of flint as a victim here it's
23:40officials screwed up from the very
23:41beginning mismanage from the very
23:43beginning it was a colossal failure of
23:46government at every level and the and a
23:48real example of how the bureaucratic
23:51culture just continues to foster this
23:54sort of attitude and culture you talked
23:56several times about culture in these
23:58these departments of you know we don't
24:01really work for the public we work for
24:03our own benefit I think it's interesting
24:04too that they they looked at
24:06environmental justice in this situation
24:08are called environmental injustice and
24:10they also say that there should be in a
24:11review of the emergency manager law
24:13coming out of what happened here yeah I
24:15mean there's some things that you could
24:16do to the emergency manager law to make
24:19it a little more transparent to have
24:21better checks and balances over the
24:23decision making they stopped short of
24:25saying this but I think the part of the
24:27implication here is also that the
24:29emergency manager law is a tool it is
24:31not policy and this is an administration
24:34that has used that law as the sum total
24:38of its urban policy since it's been in
24:40Lansing there's a lot of other stuff
24:42that needs to be done with regard to the
24:44way we fund cities the way we allow
24:46cities to fund themselves and govern
24:48themselves that that goes beyond the
24:51emergency manager law and rick Snyder
24:52has been completely uninterested in any
24:54of it and look for our special on
24:56municipal finance coming soon to
24:57television near you you get a last word
24:59on in 20 seconds left manager work in
25:01wayne county is a pretty good example
25:02they empowered the executive gave him
25:05the leverage he need to get it's a good
25:06example it was representative government
25:09still but it cleared away a lot of the
25:11obstacles he needed to make tough
25:13decisions and implement them i think it
25:15worked perfectly there and that serves
25:16as good example future all right well we
25:18did want to get to the terrorist attacks
25:19in Brussels and how that might be
25:21impacting the presidential race we
25:22didn't have time for that so we are
25:23going to keep on talking after the show
25:25tonight so find us at my we
25:27org on facebook and twitter you can get
25:29that extra segment and as always we
25:31appreciate your support for Detroit
25:32Public Television that is going to do it
25:34from my week tonight I'm Christy
25:36McDonald meet us back here next Thursday
25:37for another edition of my week take care
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26:37funding is also provided by Delta

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