YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → Disease, Disorder, or Disobedience? The TRUTH About Mental "Illness"

Disease, Disorder, or Disobedience? The TRUTH About Mental "Illness" — Transcript

by Wretched with Todd Friel · 3,442 words · 586 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00If you're just going to treat them with
0:01psychotropics, I don't think you're ever
0:02going to fix them. I am saying the brain
0:05can influence the mind, but the mind is
0:07the seat of the cognition. You have to
0:09focus on that. [music] So, you're saying
0:12get treatment for the brain-body stuff,
0:14but let's focus on the mind with God's
0:16word and God's resources. [music]
0:18>> It just it seems so Sunday schoolish.
0:21It just seems a little little naive,
0:23Greg. You're saying?
0:25>> And how is the secular therapeutic
0:27[music] helping you?
0:28>> How's it working out for us?
0:29>> Are you getting better?
0:31>> Hello and welcome to Wretched. My name
0:33is Todd Friel, your host and wretch the
0:37song refers to. If you're Southern
0:39Baptist, you're you're going to just
0:40you're going to love this for the
0:42alliteration alone.
0:44Disease, disorder,
0:47or disobedience. You say, "What do those
0:50three D words have to do with me?" Well,
0:52the answer would be a lot if you're
0:54struggling with any sort of what the
0:57world would call a mental health issue.
1:00Is it or is it possible that what you've
1:03been diagnosed as is something different
1:07and there's a high chance
1:10it is. Dr. Greg Gifford, author of a
1:12provocative and really helpful book for
1:15Christians, Lies My Therapist Told Me.
1:20Did you're you're you're you're you're
1:23you're lobbing some shots at the medical
1:26health industry.
1:29>> yep.
1:29>> The secular therapeutic in your book, it
1:31is Look, it does that. It's it's a
1:33scorcher. And it's but it it's it's
1:35eye-opening and it's well-researched and
1:37it helps you understand, well, this
1:39whole mental health thing is like a kind
1:41of new sort of territory for people.
1:44And it has dominated our society and
1:46that means
1:48people that are Christians are being
1:50told that they're a disease.
1:52>> Yes.
1:53>> And
1:54your contention is probably not. And one
1:58of the chapters in your book
2:00seeks to discern the difference between
2:02is it a disease, is it a disorder, or is
2:04it disobedience? What's the difference
2:07between the three D words?
2:09>> Your brain cannot make you call your
2:14drug dealer. There's no clearer way to
2:15say it. Your brain
2:17cannot make you think an impure thought.
2:20So, what we are using as a disease
2:23understanding of addiction
2:25actually often corresponds to
2:28disobedience.
2:29Go back to the first time a person used
2:32drugs.
2:32>> Mhm.
2:33>> Were they struggling with a disorder,
2:35disease, or disobedience? Well, where do
2:38your thoughts come from? Your mind.
2:40What were you doing?
2:41>> Okay, but again, the mind just so that
2:43we keep our terms because it mind and
2:44brain are interchangeable, but you make
2:46a clear distinction.
2:47>> They're not the same.
2:48>> Brain is what's up here. Mind is who you
2:50are.
2:50>> That's right.
2:51And that's why when we say when you
2:53first called that drug dealer or you
2:55were at the party and first tried drugs,
2:57you had no physiological craving. Your
2:59brain didn't know what that was like.
3:01What were you doing? You were disobeying
3:03God's plans for you. You sinned in that
3:05moment. If you call sin
3:08a disorder or a disease, the solution is
3:12not repentance, but treatment.
3:14>> Mhm.
3:15>> I'm just trying to argue let's get back
3:16to what the Bible calls a sin and let's
3:18call it a sin if the Bible calls it a
3:19sin. If the Bible doesn't call it a sin,
3:21we don't have to call it a sin, but that
3:23first time, yes.
3:24>> Okay, but let me let me just argue.
3:27>> Let's do it.
3:28>> What about propensities?
3:30>> Totally.
3:31>> Some people are it seems we even have an
3:33argument or a debate rather about is
3:35this nature nurtured? There are just
3:37some people and sometimes even people
3:39groups that seem to have a bent in this
3:41direction.
3:42>> Yeah, totally.
3:43>> Where does that play in?
3:44>> I would say propensities, environment.
3:47You could think of things like okay, you
3:49saw your dad use that and now you have
3:52an inclination to use it. Those things
3:54can all be factors, but propensities,
3:56there's nothing to say biblically that
3:58your body doesn't even have a propensity
4:00to be addicted or to habitually use
4:03something.
4:04Because we know that sin has affected
4:05every part of this world to include our
4:07bodies. So yeah, your body can have that
4:09for sure.
4:10>> Though you what you're saying is those
4:12desire for bad things,
4:15it's not coming from your brain.
4:16>> It can't. The Bible says it can't. Your
4:19body cannot make you sin and your body
4:22is not the source of your cognition to
4:23include your brain.
4:24>> All right, hold on.
4:26Arguing again, the flesh. We war against
4:29the world, the flesh, and the devil.
4:31Well, the flesh is my
4:33unglorified body, my carcass.
4:36>> Yep.
4:36>> Does that Is there something in my
4:38members that wars against holiness?
4:41>> Totally. No problem with that.
4:43>> Right, no problem. If If we were to say
4:45your body makes it hard for you to be
4:47holy, no problem. But as a Christian,
4:51your body cannot make you sin.
4:53It can incline you to it. Don't believe
4:55me, don't sleep for 8 hours. You know,
4:56like skip tonight's rest and your body
4:59will incline you to sin.
5:00>> Okay, but here's here's what I've heard
5:03people say is that it the desire is so
5:06strong
5:08and they call that the disease. That's
5:09because you've got a disease. I I can't
5:11help it. I've got to do it.
5:13You're saying No, they don't.
5:15>> I'm saying if you have God's spirit
5:17living in you,
5:18>> Right.
5:18>> you don't have to do it.
5:19>> Would you even say that of somebody
5:21who's not redeemed? They don't have to I
5:23mean they're but they're they're
5:24choosing to.
5:25>> Right. I think it's harder to break the
5:27power of sin when you have no
5:29>> Sure. I I grant you that, especially on
5:32an ongoing basis. But no human being,
5:34the body, what you're saying is it can't
5:37ultimately make you. Your mind has to
5:40determine that.
5:41>> That's right.
5:42>> What about what we hear that word
5:45addiction gets used all the time.
5:47Everything is an addiction. Actually,
5:49there's one There's one activity that
5:51isn't considered an addiction yet.
5:54Do you know which one I'm thinking of?
5:55Coffee?
5:56>> [laughter]
5:58>> Pornography.
6:00>> Yes.
6:01>> I mean, why don't
6:03>> Sexual addiction.
6:04>> Sexual addiction.
6:05>> Right.
6:06>> Yeah. You don't have to watch porn. You
6:08choose to watch porn. If there were a
6:11porn disease, they would create a porn
6:13pill.
6:14>> Right.
6:14>> And what You know what that porn pill
6:15would be? It would suppress the libido.
6:17>> [snorts]
6:18>> That's what it would do.
6:18>> Right. That's all it takes.
6:20>> That's
6:20Does that deal with somebody's porn
6:22problem?
6:22>> Right.
6:22>> No.
6:23>> Right.
6:24>> It just deals with the physical lust of
6:27it, perhaps, but it doesn't make the
6:29lust go away.
6:31>> That's right.
6:31>> Same thing with alcohol, same thing with
6:33drugs.
6:34>> There's a substance abuse. There is an
6:35alcoholic
6:37abuse. There is a disorder that
6:39corresponds to alcohol and substance,
6:41>> keep hearing people say it's a disease.
6:43You've got the disease of alcohol ism.
6:45>> Yes.
6:46>> Therefore, you can't help it, and you're
6:48going to be an alcoholic the rest of
6:49your life.
6:50>> Yeah, that would be the better way. Even
6:51the terminology of abuse,
6:54the disease model is trying to get rid
6:56of abuse because that has moral shame
6:59that corresponds to it.
7:00>> Sure. And when you got a disease, would
7:02you Would you yell at somebody who's got
7:04a kidney disease?
7:05>> Right.
7:06>> Then how can you yell at somebody who's
7:08got alcohol disease?
7:09>> That's right.
7:10>> The issue of insanity.
7:14That is a That's a contentious one, the
7:16difference between a secular and a
7:18Christian worldview understanding of
7:21what's going on inside of us. You're
7:23making the the case that we do not have
7:25a mental illness.
7:27We might have some propensities. We
7:29might have some characteristics. They
7:31could be sinful. They might not be.
7:33>> Right.
7:34>> But that you don't have an illness.
7:36But most of us have been to places or
7:39seen movies that show us inside of
7:43insane asylums.
7:44>> Right.
7:45>> And you can't help it. You look at those
7:47people and
7:51I think all of us all of us are inclined
7:53to go something's wrong with their
7:54brain. What How do we deal with
7:57those those sorts of manifestations of
8:02malfunctioning?
8:03>> Yeah.
8:04In the book I highlighted a guy that we
8:06were walking past at the public library
8:08and he was barking and singing as we
8:11walked past him.
8:12My kids were like, "Dad, what's the
8:14what's going [clears throat] on here?"
8:15And usually that type of person we would
8:17be quick to say, "Well, chemical
8:19imbalance or mental illness is what
8:22they're plagued with."
8:23And what I'm saying is you can
8:24biblically have insanity where your
8:27senses do not comport to reality and yet
8:31that's still not a mental illness. The
8:32Bible talks about acting insanely
8:35or being out of one's mind and it does
8:37so primarily in the context of when your
8:39senses do not match reality.
8:43>> All right. So, would you say
8:45that the mind because you're making the
8:47distinction between the mind and the
8:48brain, the brain is a physical organ,
8:51the mind is an immaterial you, the seat
8:55of who you are. So, you're saying that
8:58when we see somebody who manifests those
9:00characteristics of what we would say
9:01would be insanity,
9:03you're saying it has nothing to do with
9:05the brain.
9:06>> No, I'm saying that it may be that their
9:09brain is influencing their bizarre
9:11behavior, but their mind is the source
9:15of cognition. Their mind, the immaterial
9:18part.
9:18>> So, we all understand, well, I guess
9:21these days we're trying to erase the
9:23lines, but we basically understand
9:24norms.
9:26You have personality differences etc.
9:29But we basically understand this person
9:31is within their right mind, we would
9:34say. Well, so So talking about these
9:35people that are outside of those lines.
9:38>> Right.
9:38>> So if it's their mind, their immaterial
9:41self, why is that so
9:44broken?
9:45>> I think we underestimate the effects of
9:47sin on the mind.
9:48And when the Bible says defiled,
9:51calloused,
9:53when it uses terms like sick for your
9:55mind,
9:56it's easier almost for us to think no,
9:57their brain has an issue. There's a
9:59chemical, there's an issue in their
10:00brain. That's a naturalistic starting
10:02point. But we actually haven't
10:03considered the ramification of how sin
10:05darkens the mind. And it makes things
10:08that are crazy seem normal.
10:11>> To the individual.
10:12>> To the individual. That's a callous
10:13mind. That's being handed over. Romans
10:151:28. You have this callous mind as a
10:17result of sin in your life.
10:19>> Mhm.
10:19So these these days we accept as a
10:22society that if somebody's behaving like
10:24that, it's a mental illness.
10:27You're saying no, actually it's it's a
10:28mind problem of some sort. Could be
10:31sinful, might not be.
10:33>> Brain is influencing, but brain is not
10:35determining.
10:36>> Right. And the And your contention also
10:39is
10:40that the brain cannot be given chemicals
10:44that will
10:45deal with whatever that issue is.
10:47>> Right. It's treating the symptoms.
10:49Psychotropics are always treating
10:51symptoms. And so you have the DSM-5,
10:53which is symptom-based diagnosing. And
10:56then you have psychotropics that are
10:57treating the symptoms of that
10:59symptom-based diagnosis.
11:00>> Right, which are made without machinery,
11:02without medical equipment.
11:04>> No testing, no labs. Yep. So you're
11:07diagnosed based off of the way you
11:10describe your own problem.
11:12>> So the sentence that's running through
11:13my brain is based on what you just said.
11:16>> Or mind.
11:17>> [laughter]
11:20>> This is going to be exhausting. So the
11:24individual who is
11:27outside of those those norms of what we
11:31consider standard behavior. How do they
11:34get fixed then?
11:36>> Good. If you're just going to treat him
11:38with psychotropics, I don't think you're
11:40ever going to fix them. Any of you're
11:41just going to treat the brain, you're
11:43not getting at the root of what is
11:45driving these behaviors. So, I am saying
11:49the brain can influence the mind. But
11:51the mind is the seat of the cognition.
11:53You have to focus on that. So, Romans
11:5612:2, you're transformed in your mind.
12:00Or 2 Corinthians 4:16, your outer man
12:02can actually be wasting away, but your
12:05inner man is being renewed day by day.
12:07So, you're saying get treatment for the
12:09brain body stuff, but let's focus on the
12:11mind with God's word and God's
12:14resources, something like that.
12:16>> Yeah, because
12:17if you don't address that, you're never
12:19going to fix the problem. Now,
12:22the whole concept of mental health and
12:24these diagnoses
12:26diagnoses is a relatively new concept,
12:30about 120 years. According to your book.
12:33The church the church, how did the
12:36church deal with these issues before the
12:38rise of mental health?
12:40>> You know, the idea of psychiatrist
12:42actually means soul healer. Who has been
12:45historically the care of the soul? The
12:47pastor.
12:48>> Mhm.
12:49>> And where did you go to get soul care?
12:51>> Mhm.
12:52>> Church.
12:53>> Mhm.
12:53>> From the spiritually qualified ones.
12:55>> Mhm.
12:55>> So, now we have a secular field, either
12:58psychiatry or psychology, that are
13:00coming in and actually usurping the role
13:02of a pastor and becoming a I would call
13:05it a secular pastor. I do call it a
13:06secular pastor in the book.
13:08>> Mhm.
13:08>> So, a psychiatrist has now replaced the
13:10pastor, is the new carer of the soul.
13:12>> So, you're telling me that it was in the
13:14context of the local church that all of
13:16what we would call today our mental
13:18health issues were dealt with by
13:20a pastor?
13:22Today, I think we have all been trained,
13:25it's like, wait a second, the mental
13:26health issues, that's for the
13:29professionals.
13:30The pastor, he's the one who takes care
13:32of the religious stuff. Let them take
13:35care of that.
13:36Why do we need to shift our thinking on
13:38this issue?
13:39>> Why would I go to someone that doesn't
13:41believe in the soul to get help with my
13:43soul? Or why would I go to someone that
13:45doesn't believe in the biblical mind to
13:47get help with my mind?
13:49>> Mhm.
13:49>> Why do I go to my pastor? Because he's
13:51the most qualified. He's going to take
13:53God's word and share it with me and help
13:55me approach this circumstance through
13:57the lens of scripture.
13:58>> Yeah.
13:58>> He is the professional when he knows
14:00doctrine.
14:01>> Yeah, but, you know, these days we've
14:03got a lot of pastors who don't really
14:06know how to do that, but once upon a
14:07time they did. Richard Baxter's book,
14:10wow, if you if you want to go read like
14:13practical applications of the Bible for
14:15emotional issues, sin issues,
14:18it was it was the DSM
14:21>> It is. It's about that big as well.
14:23>> Yeah, it is that big, and but so
14:25profoundly insightful and helpful. You
14:27know, you think the Puritans and their
14:28funny clothes and they didn't like to
14:30dance. Wow, did they have insights into
14:33the soul, which is why they called it
14:36soul care. Now, your book is
14:40really going about the business of
14:41accomplishing a number of things. It's
14:43the reconsidering mental health, the
14:46mental health complex, psychotropic
14:49medication, but it's also offering hope
14:53that there is actually a powerful remedy
14:55for what ails us, and it is the Bible.
14:58And one of your chapters is about the
15:00power of
15:02salvation.
15:03What does salvation have to do with
15:06somebody's air quotes mental health?
15:08>> It has everything to do.
15:10The unsaved mind is darkened, it's
15:13defiled, it's corrupt according to the
15:15scripture. Just just do a basic search
15:17in the scripture.
15:18And what happens at the moment of your
15:19salvation is that God gives you a
15:22capacitated mind. So, your mind that was
15:25broken and distorted now for the very
15:27first time can be renewed and
15:29transformed.
15:30So, it worked, but 1 Corinthians 2:16
15:33says that now you have the mind of
15:35Christ, the news of Christ.
15:37So, at the moment of salvation, your
15:39mind changed in its entirety.
15:43So, what does it matter? It has
15:44everything to do with it. So, why would
15:46I go to someone who doesn't have a
15:47renewed mind to get help with my mind?
15:50Their mind needs more renewal. They need
15:52transformation before they can even
15:54begin to help me with my mind. So,
15:56salvation is that starting point of a
15:58well-functioning mind.
16:00>> And salvation is needed in order to grow
16:03in these areas biblically.
16:05>> Biblically.
16:06>> You know, you can put a rubber band on
16:07your wrist, snap it, and you know
16:08>> Totally. We can fruit swap.
16:10>> We can fruit swap, sure. Exactly. But,
16:13it's you're never going to grow in
16:14sanctification.
16:16And I would even say in healing, if you
16:18would prefer that term, until you are
16:21saved.
16:21>> That's right.
16:22>> Because the Bible really only works for
16:26people who believe the Bible.
16:27>> Right. And And that's why we would say,
16:28"Okay, so Jesus is the remedy. Faith in
16:32Christ is the beginning point." And if
16:34you're taking psychotropics and not
16:36working on your relationship with
16:37Christ, those psychotropics are never
16:39going to bring about the change that you
16:41really want. Christ is the way, the
16:43truth, and the life.
16:44>> So, let me let me play the taunter.
16:45>> Mhm.
16:46>> Oh, I see. So, uh here's a Bible verse,
16:49call me in the morning. Is that what
16:50you're saying?
16:51>> Yeah, that is not what I'm saying. And
16:53there are reductionistic people out
16:55there that want to take all complicated
16:57problems and flatten them down and say,
16:59"All right, here. Just pray about this,
17:00and here's a Bible verse to memorize,
17:02and then it's done." No.
17:03You are complex, and the Bible is
17:05complex, and the Bible has complex
17:07answers to your complexities. So, no
17:09doubt, we don't want to be
17:10reductionistic, but the Bible is not
17:12reductionistic.
17:14>> There I think I think there could be a
17:16pretty
17:17sizeable number of Christians who hear
17:19this and they're like
17:21it just it seems so Sunday schoolish.
17:24>> Yeah.
17:24>> It seems a little little naive, Greg.
17:27You say?
17:29>> And how is the secular therapeutic
17:31helping you?
17:31>> How's it working out for us?
17:33>> Is it getting better?
17:34>> No.
17:35>> Are you open to just giving God's word a
17:37>> but all right, and you probably
17:39been at this gathering, "Hey, aren't you
17:41the one who's saying that psychotropic
17:43medications are terrible? Well, I know
17:46somebody who had this, they took a that,
17:50and now they're great. Ha!"
17:54Your response?
17:56>> I believe that psychotropics can
17:57alleviate symptoms of the brain, but not
18:00treat the mind.
18:02So, I would support that and say,
18:03"Great, I'm glad there was symptom
18:05relief, but symptom relief, if you're
18:07not focusing on the mind, is not what we
18:10want. It's not what we're looking for.
18:12Just to get rid of a symptom doesn't
18:13mean you've eradicated the problem that
18:15is leading to the symptom."
18:16>> And the Bible has much to say for
18:18people. Are you suggesting that the
18:20Bible and this soul care of old
18:23we hear words like schizophrenia and we
18:25go, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's got to be
18:27left for the psychiatrist."
18:29Bipolar, that can't possibly fall
18:32underneath soul care, or can it?
18:35>> Yes, it can.
18:36I think if you see that those things are
18:38relegated to {quote} professionals, then
18:40your view of the Bible isn't big enough.
18:43God's word is not reductionistic or
18:45simplistic. God not only describes who
18:48you are, he describes the solution, and
18:50he describes how to actually accomplish
18:52progressive sanctification, the
18:54solution. So, your view of the Bible's
18:56too small if you see it that way.
18:58>> It is it is a sin.
19:00It is not a mental illness.
19:04Harsh?
19:05Okay. Good news? Yeah, cuz Jesus can
19:08help you overcome that sin. Until
19:11tomorrow, go serve your king.
19:21All right, gentlemen, second half.
19:23Here's the strategy, Psalms.
19:26Imprecatory Psalms. Now, take an knee.
19:31>> [music]
19:36>> Left.
19:37Left.
19:40>> [music]

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of Disease, Disorder, or Disobedience? The TRUTH About Mental "Illness" by Wretched with Todd Friel, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 3,442 words across 586 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.