Diane Downs' Most Disturbing Interview │ Full 1984 Special with Anne Jaeger — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:01this is an eyewitness news special
2. 0:03report
3. 0:06in her own words elizabeth diane downs
4. 0:12good evening i'm ann bradley
5. 0:15what you're about to see is a
6. 0:16conversation with elizabeth diane downes
7. 0:19in november in the next 30 minutes we're
8. 0:21going to try to give you the inside
9. 0:23story about what elizabeth diane downs
10. 0:25is like in her own words
11. 0:27how she feels about her life her former
12. 0:29marriage her children and the events
13. 0:31that have happened over the past year
14. 0:34you may be wondering why we haven't
15. 0:35aired this interview eyewitness news
16. 0:37waited until now because of the
17. 0:39sensitivity of some of the things said
18. 0:41and it does contain some graphic
19. 0:42language these comments represent
20. 0:45elizabeth diane down's thoughts and
21. 0:47opinions and are not necessarily shared
22. 0:49by kezi
23. 0:51we've also been concerned about the
24. 0:52effect of this material on potential
25. 0:54jurors now that a jury has been picked
26. 0:57we want to share some of the background
27. 0:58of the downs case with you
28. 1:01let's start by taking a look back at
29. 1:02what happened may 19 1983
30. 1:08a year ago this week one of the most
31. 1:10horrendous crimes took place along this
32. 1:12stretch of old mohawk road east of
33. 1:14eugene a 28 year old woman and her three
34. 1:17small children were brutally shot
35. 1:21elizabeth diane downs says the family
36. 1:23was on a sightseeing trip when a
37. 1:25shaggy-haired stranger flagged her down
38. 1:27and demanded her car
39. 1:29she refused and the assailant shot downs
40. 1:31and her children at close range with a
41. 1:3322-caliber gun
42. 1:35nine-year-old christy was shot first
43. 1:37threw the hand into the chest as she
44. 1:39tried to protect herself
45. 1:41three-year-old danny was shot in the
46. 1:43back and is now paralyzed from the waist
47. 1:45down
48. 1:46seven-year-old cheryl was shot twice
49. 1:48from behind and died on the way to the
50. 1:50hospital police searched the brush and
51. 1:52nearby river looking for the murder
52. 1:54weapon the gun was never found and
53. 1:56neither was the shaggy-haired stranger
54. 1:59police started suspecting downs as the
55. 2:01culprit the prosecution claims her
56. 2:04obsessive love for an ex-boyfriend in
57. 2:06arizona was her motive
58. 2:08the state says downs felt her children
59. 2:10were getting in the way and preventing a
60. 2:12romantic relationship with that former
61. 2:14boyfriend
62. 2:15and strangely enough even the people who
63. 2:17knew down's best questioned her account
64. 2:19of the shootings on the night of the
65. 2:21murder down's father wes frederickson
66. 2:24was there ever a time
67. 2:27from the beginning when you first heard
68. 2:29that
69. 2:30you had any doubts about her innocence
70. 2:33was there a time when i had doubts yes
71. 2:36there was
72. 2:37the first night as a matter of fact i
73. 2:39had doubts
74. 2:40i felt
75. 2:42well i sat and i sized up the situation
76. 2:45and i saw
77. 2:46at
78. 2:47one point that
79. 2:48diane had been shot in the and everybody
80. 2:52knows her as elizabeth but diane had
81. 2:54been shot in the
82. 2:55left arm
83. 2:56and she's right-handed and i made the
84. 2:58comment to the police department there
85. 3:00that night
86. 3:01it looks to me like diane did it because
87. 3:03the children have been shot in the chest
88. 3:06and diane has only been shot in the arm
89. 3:09and i i says it really looks like she
90. 3:11did it
91. 3:12and that's that really is the thing
92. 3:15that's for them to go and check
93. 3:17to do the q-tips run the q-tips around
94. 3:19her finger to check for the powder
95. 3:21residue and to also spray her hands to
96. 3:23see if she held a gun so it was a good
97. 3:25thing that i expressed that and i'm a
98. 3:27very open person if i think that
99. 3:30somebody did something i'm not about to
100. 3:31hesitate to say
101. 3:33they didn't you know i'll tell them that
102. 3:35i think they did and i'd say the same
103. 3:36thing again if i believed it i've had
104. 3:38plenty of opportunity to follow and and
105. 3:40that's one of the main reasons i guess
106. 3:43for peace of mind i've i've followed
107. 3:45through and i know that my daughter
108. 3:47didn't do it i have been through that
109. 3:49night so many times i've even been
110. 3:51through it with my psychologist it's
111. 3:53very hard it's very tearful there are a
112. 3:55lot of memories that
113. 3:58um
114. 4:00i don't know
115. 4:02a lot of people when something traumatic
116. 4:03happens to them they suppress
117. 4:05immediately
118. 4:06i
119. 4:08kept those memories
120. 4:09because i knew that i was the only
121. 4:10person that was going to be able to tell
122. 4:12them what happened when we got to the
123. 4:13hospital
124. 4:14and when i got there the first thing i
125. 4:16said was call the doctor second thing
126. 4:18was the blood type third thing was call
127. 4:20the cops because they've got it they've
128. 4:22got to find him
129. 4:23and so i had to remember as much as i
130. 4:26could remember when this man shot my
131. 4:29daughter my first reaction was to snap
132. 4:31back to my childhood
133. 4:33to the pain that had happened to me back
134. 4:35then my marriage my entrapment by
135. 4:38society this man was bigger than me he
136. 4:40was stronger than me he had more power
137. 4:42because he had a gun he was in control
138. 4:45and i was not and i had there was
139. 4:47nothing i could do and i stood there and
140. 4:49i looked at christy reaching
141. 4:51and
142. 4:53the blood that just kept gushing out of
143. 4:55her mouth and and
144. 4:58what do you do
145. 4:59you just stand there trapped and then
146. 5:03and then the gun kept firing and firing
147. 5:05and firing and it made it was monotonous
148. 5:08it just kept going it was like a slow
149. 5:11motion picture
150. 5:13and then he swung around towards me and
151. 5:15i
152. 5:16and this is something that i did not
153. 5:18recall when i was explaining to the cops
154. 5:20because there it was it wasn't like a
155. 5:22movie when i was telling them i was
156. 5:24telling them what happened the important
157. 5:25details he shot my kids i pushed him i
158. 5:27ran
159. 5:28and
160. 5:29when he swung around he was pointing
161. 5:31when he swung around it hit the tips of
162. 5:33my fingers the gun hit the tips of my
163. 5:35fingers and that snapped me and i went
164. 5:37wait a minute i'm not trapped by society
165. 5:40i don't care if he is bigger if i stand
166. 5:43here and i say
167. 5:45yeah here take the keys i mean there's
168. 5:47nothing i can do you win because you
169. 5:49have the gun my kids are going to die
170. 5:52and i'm not going to let my kids die and
171. 5:54so instead of giving him the keys i
172. 5:57feigned throwing the keys
173. 6:00he did not take time to point the gun
174. 6:02and shoot me obviously because he would
175. 6:03have shot me the same way he did the
176. 6:05kids when he was swinging in the
177. 6:07direction of the keys firing the gun he
178. 6:10hit my arm
179. 6:12everybody says you sure were lucky well
180. 6:15i don't feel very lucky i couldn't tie
181. 6:17my damn shoes for about two months it is
182. 6:20very painful it is still painful i have
183. 6:22a steel plate on my arm i will for a
184. 6:24year and a half
185. 6:25the
186. 6:26the scar is going to be there forever
187. 6:27i'm going to remember that night for the
188. 6:29rest of my life whether i want to or not
189. 6:30i don't think i was very lucky
190. 6:32i think my kids were lucky if i had been
191. 6:35shot the way they were we all would have
192. 6:36died except maybe danny what haunts you
193. 6:39the most about that night
194. 6:42what do i see most is blood coming out
195. 6:44of christy's mouth
196. 6:46because that's what i see um i i can't
197. 6:49see danny and i can't see cher
198. 6:52sherry was laying on the floor and
199. 6:54driving to the hospital i don't know the
200. 6:57sounds that were made at the initial
201. 6:58shooting because i was on the outside
202. 7:00and all i could hear
203. 7:03i cried i can't hear anything but
204. 7:05gunshots
205. 7:06and i can i can see things you know i
206. 7:09that's it driving to the hospital i can
207. 7:11smell blood
208. 7:13i can
209. 7:14not hear cheryl cheryl's not making a
210. 7:16sound
211. 7:17danny is just crying real real soft so
212. 7:19so that sound stays in my mind and the
213. 7:21fact that christie's choking and just
214. 7:24and then i'm yelling at her and
215. 7:25screaming at her to to roll over on her
216. 7:27face
217. 7:28because i was trying to keep her from
218. 7:31choking on her blood and it just didn't
219. 7:32dawn on me that she was shot in the
220. 7:34chest and that the blood was coming from
221. 7:36her chest not going down into her chest
222. 7:38down says her childhood and marriage
223. 7:40flashed before her the night of the
224. 7:42murder diana's the oldest of four
225. 7:44fredericks and children
226. 7:46and she says her childhood is a great
227. 7:48source of pain in her life
228. 7:50how did your childhood affect you
229. 7:52everything that happens to you as a
230. 7:54child contributes to how you turn out as
231. 7:56an adult
232. 7:58to be honest it made me a better person
233. 8:00because i know all the mistakes i know
234. 8:02not what not to do to my kids i know
235. 8:04what to avoid
236. 8:06one thing is to not be married
237. 8:09and that may seem very harsh but
238. 8:11i honestly don't believe that children
239. 8:13need fathers
240. 8:15and they're nice to have around
241. 8:17sometimes
242. 8:18when they can do things to help you but
243. 8:20when they are mentally abusive when they
244. 8:22are harsh and
245. 8:24the way my ex-husband was
246. 8:26they're more a deterrent to the children
247. 8:28than a help and unless you can find a
248. 8:30good father
249. 8:31there is no need for them
250. 8:34did your childhood affect your attitude
251. 8:37toward men
252. 8:38that has a lot to do with it they had a
253. 8:41lot to do with it for many many many
254. 8:42years
255. 8:43i hated men with a passion
256. 8:47but uh yeah i hated men for a long time
257. 8:49that's why i met steve
258. 8:51that's why
259. 8:52i married steve because steve did not
260. 8:54seem to be that way
261. 8:56steve was always on his best behavior he
262. 8:58does he does the thing that most people
263. 9:00do when they're dating and that's put
264. 9:01their best foot forward they're every
265. 9:03you're nice they're punctual they're
266. 9:06everything they're supposed to be
267. 9:07and then you marry them and it's hey
268. 9:08diane can you let yourself in i have to
269. 9:11run down and look at a car
270. 9:13yeah that's what he did on our wedding
271. 9:14day actually i found it out the day i
272. 9:16got married and then within the next
273. 9:18two months after that i found out that
274. 9:20steve was exactly like my father
275. 9:22but
276. 9:23it took me two years three years to
277. 9:26finally say i can't take it anymore he
278. 9:28really really is he's not going to
279. 9:29change i am a person that believes that
280. 9:31everybody's going to change the for the
281. 9:33better given the right circumstances if
282. 9:34you be a good wife if you don't nag if
283. 9:37you love them if you're always there
284. 9:38when they need them if the food's always
285. 9:40ready if the house is always clean
286. 9:41they're going to change he didn't change
287. 9:44and that's why even though we were
288. 9:46married for eight years only three of it
289. 9:48was not tolerable it wasn't tolerable
290. 9:50but that was the only three that i tried
291. 9:52after that i quit because i didn't want
292. 9:54to be married anymore diane says her
293. 9:56marriage with steve downs deteriorated
294. 9:58when friction arose over an unexpected
295. 10:01pregnancy okay after i had christy and
296. 10:03after i had cheryl
297. 10:06steve had a vasectomy
298. 10:08it didn't work
299. 10:10and
300. 10:10he never went back to get checked to see
301. 10:13if it worked he just figured doctors
302. 10:15know what they're doing it must have
303. 10:16worked so after i think it's uh you're
304. 10:20supposed to wait 10 weeks be on some
305. 10:22kind of contraceptive for 10 weeks and
306. 10:23then you're safe and then you check but
307. 10:25you're supposed to check yeah he never
308. 10:27went back because he was just too busy
309. 10:29and the doctor probably knew what he was
310. 10:30doing well i got pregnant and i knew
311. 10:32that i wasn't messing around with
312. 10:33anybody and that if i was pregnant
313. 10:36because i know what being pregnant feels
314. 10:38like i know how i got that way and i
315. 10:41told him about it and he gave me heck
316. 10:45or is ugh not that was the child that i
317. 10:47aborted steve put me through hell with
318. 10:49that one and i had an abortion cheryl
319. 10:51was colicky steve was bitching we found
320. 10:54i made steve go back to the doctor or
321. 10:56shut up don't accuse me until you know
322. 10:58the doctor said yeah you are fertile i
323. 11:00guess i goofed up come on in and we'll
324. 11:02go ahead and do it again well i was
325. 11:04pregnant so i was 20 years old had two
326. 11:06kids cheryl was colicky my husband was a
327. 11:09bastard i'm sorry
328. 11:11and
329. 11:12i had an abortion and it was
330. 11:15something that did not bother me for two
331. 11:17years and then i was at a fair in
332. 11:19arizona
333. 11:20i walked past a right to life booth and
334. 11:22they told me at the time that i aborted
335. 11:24that i was six weeks and i figured six
336. 11:26weeks that is a condition you are not
337. 11:29pregnant that is a condition it's a
338. 11:31little ball of slime you know no big
339. 11:33deal it's a fetus slime i figured
340. 11:36i saw a six-week fetus that baby had
341. 11:39arms legs fingers toes head eyes that
342. 11:42was a baby it was a human being and i
343. 11:44killed it and i felt so horrible about
344. 11:48it that i had
345. 11:49killed somebody like that i didn't kill
346. 11:52it myself but i i heard a doctor to do
347. 11:54it
348. 11:56and so i asked my husband have his
349. 11:58vasectomy changed reversed he refused i
350. 12:01asked him for a year he kept saying no i
351. 12:04said fine i will find a suitable donor i
352. 12:07watched people i worked with i picked
353. 12:09somebody that was attractive that was
354. 12:10healthy that was not abusive of drugs
355. 12:12and alcohol and such
356. 12:14was strong you know bone structure the
357. 12:16whole bit a good specimen it was really
358. 12:19clinical it was really terrible and
359. 12:22seduced him and i know my cycle and it
360. 12:26only took once and i got pregnant i went
361. 12:28home and about a week later i told steve
362. 12:30i was pregnant and he goes how do you
363. 12:31know and i says well i know my cycle i
364. 12:33know i'm pregnant and he was really
365. 12:35upset for that whole nine months he put
366. 12:37me through hell every day every night it
367. 12:40was terrible just railed on me
368. 12:42constantly told me to get an abortion
369. 12:45the whole bit
370. 12:46and then after the baby was born
371. 12:48he told me if you have a girl baby i
372. 12:51might let you stay around
373. 12:53but if you have a boy i'm kicking you
374. 12:55both out on your butts and you're going
375. 12:57to take those two with you also because
376. 12:59how do i know they're mine
377. 13:01that kind of attitude well i lived with
378. 13:03that for nine months
379. 13:06thing well
380. 13:07when danny was born
381. 13:09steve because okay the reason i had to
382. 13:11be a girl was because christy was
383. 13:12supposed to be a boy i was so cruel and
384. 13:15mean i had a girl and steve just
385. 13:16couldn't stand it got one more chance
386. 13:18diane cheryl better be a boy well cheryl
387. 13:21turned out being a girl he came into the
388. 13:22recovery room he goes well where is he i
389. 13:24said he's a she he says how could you do
390. 13:26that you know we're not having any more
391. 13:28kids crazy flipped out
392. 13:31so
393. 13:32if i was going to have another one i
394. 13:33better darn sure have a girl well when
395. 13:35danny was born he was a boy and my first
396. 13:38thought was i'm dead he's dead what's he
397. 13:41going to do with that baby and then i
398. 13:42didn't care i mean that was my baby that
399. 13:45was supposedly the baby that was going
400. 13:47to replace the one that i had boarded
401. 13:49and as soon as i looked at danny i said
402. 13:51you can't that's that's a boy baby
403. 13:53that's and i just knew that the baby had
404. 13:55a boredom was a girl i named her carrie
405. 13:57and everything it's just a different
406. 13:59human being altogether you know
407. 14:01a whole lot of emotion on that delivery
408. 14:02table and steve's standing there right
409. 14:04beside me looking at me like you
410. 14:06which how could you do this you're out
411. 14:09you know and dr george
412. 14:11handed daniel to steve and from that
413. 14:13point on steve spent the rest of the the
414. 14:16past four years trying to prove to
415. 14:19people that he was not biased and not
416. 14:22prejudiced thereby becoming bias and
417. 14:24prejudice
418. 14:26we've talked to steve downs in the past
419. 14:28about some of these events
420. 14:30we attempted to contact him again but
421. 14:32his attorney wouldn't allow him to
422. 14:34comment because of the trial
423. 14:36downes knew a lengthy murder trial would
424. 14:38make her private life public territory
425. 14:42she's very frank about being a surrogate
426. 14:44mother she ran a surrogate program in
427. 14:46arizona and gave birth to another
428. 14:48couple's child
429. 14:49diane lost visitation rights to her own
430. 14:52two surviving children after the murder
431. 14:54she was found guilty of contempt of
432. 14:56court for seeing them in a secret visit
433. 14:58set up by her ex-husband steve
434. 15:00police found out about the visit in a
435. 15:02letter downs wrote to her former
436. 15:04boyfriend robert nickabacher known as
437. 15:06nick in arizona
438. 15:08you fought for steve to get custody of
439. 15:10the kids and then you wrote a letter to
440. 15:11your former boyfriend telling him that
441. 15:13steve was an unfit father for your
442. 15:15children a lot of people won't
443. 15:16understand that diane but steve is
444. 15:19different than most people he can
445. 15:23steve pointed an empty gun at my head at
446. 15:25one time and pulled the trigger do you
447. 15:27know why
448. 15:28he wanted me to marry him
449. 15:30that is crazy
450. 15:33csd i believe is very careful in picking
451. 15:36out the people that care for a child
452. 15:37that they think has been abused and
453. 15:39right now they believe that christie has
454. 15:41been one of the most abused children in
455. 15:43the world granted she was shot but
456. 15:45before that she was never abused
457. 15:47but they believe that that's probably
458. 15:49true and so they're going to put
459. 15:50christie in a very very good place and
460. 15:52so i know that christy's in a good home
461. 15:55and so i just decided that it was better
462. 15:57that christy be in a
463. 15:59safe
464. 16:00in a state a mentally stable environment
465. 16:03rather than to be with steve and
466. 16:06if i had walked up to susan stafford and
467. 16:09said
468. 16:10please don't let them go to arizona or
469. 16:12if i had called furtick and asked the
470. 16:13same thing
471. 16:14they would have sent the kids or they
472. 16:16would
473. 16:17grant it they could not send the kids
474. 16:18they make suggestions to the court as to
475. 16:20what happens to the kids and they would
476. 16:22have suggested to the court that
477. 16:25the kids go merely because i don't want
478. 16:27them to that means steve and i had a
479. 16:28falling out what better place could they
480. 16:30be safe not realizing that they aren't
481. 16:32safe from steve even
482. 16:34and emotionally and so i couldn't just
483. 16:38count on them to cooperate with me they
484. 16:40haven't so far i couldn't expect them to
485. 16:42now
486. 16:43and so i had to find another way to tell
487. 16:45them and i know that my ex-boyfriend was
488. 16:47a fink
489. 16:48he was taping for the cops he admitted
490. 16:50that he was everything every
491. 16:52conversation that i had with him on the
492. 16:53phone was taped and sent immediately to
493. 16:55the da's office
494. 16:56and i knew that that letter if i sent it
495. 16:58to him and he read it would in fact get
496. 17:00to the da's office
497. 17:02and but all the other letters that i'd
498. 17:05been sending as of late were being
499. 17:06returned and so i knew that i had to do
500. 17:09something to make that letter so
501. 17:11enticing that he would open it
502. 17:15down says she felt trapped in her
503. 17:17marriage with steve and hoped a divorce
504. 17:19would solve their problems
505. 17:21was there ever a time when during that
506. 17:24that you thought about taking your own
507. 17:25life and oh yeah went into the bathroom
508. 17:28with the gun and
509. 17:29shot it so that is indeed
510. 17:31that is true only no it it's not
511. 17:35that's a long one too it takes many many
512. 17:37years of being mentally harassed pushed
513. 17:40into a corner you can't go anywhere
514. 17:42you're trapped it comes it even stems
515. 17:45from my childhood of being trapped you
516. 17:47know that you can't go away you can't go
517. 17:50someplace else there's no place to
518. 17:52escape to because they'll take they'll
519. 17:54find you they'll bring you back you'll
520. 17:56be punished somehow
521. 17:58steve was the same type of person he was
522. 18:01the kind of person that
523. 18:04at night time especially was his best
524. 18:06time for fighting and he would just rail
525. 18:08on me just fight and fight and fight and
526. 18:10i there was no way to escape no way at
527. 18:12all well after i got my divorce i
528. 18:13figured i was free of that
529. 18:15and i wasn't steve would still come to
530. 18:17my house and still do the same thing and
531. 18:19this was two years after our divorce and
532. 18:21he came to my house
533. 18:23and
534. 18:24he i had taken a gun he had a handgun it
535. 18:27was the handgun that he had put to my
536. 18:28head unloaded and fired
537. 18:31and i took it from him i swiped it from
538. 18:33him and i hid it in my house
539. 18:35and
540. 18:37it was in my bedroom he was doing it
541. 18:39again and he was getting very very
542. 18:40physical steve had had just beat me up
543. 18:43two weeks before that beat me up
544. 18:45terribly there was blood all over the
545. 18:46place the sheriff's department came out
546. 18:49and made a report on it and
547. 18:52my nose was all bruised my face was
548. 18:54bruised my chest was bruised he had
549. 18:55choked me it was i was terrified of him
550. 18:57he had never done that before and for
551. 18:59all i knew this was two weeks later he
552. 19:01was going to do it again
553. 19:02and i ran in the bathroom and well i ran
554. 19:05in the bedroom and slammed the door and
555. 19:06he
556. 19:07was coming through the door anyway so i
557. 19:09grabbed the gun and i ran in the
558. 19:10bathroom and locked the door
559. 19:12and my first thought was i'll never
560. 19:14escape from him i will never ever get
561. 19:17away i divorced him and that is isn't
562. 19:18even getting away from him
563. 19:20it doesn't matter what i do i'll never
564. 19:22get away from the insanity except just
565. 19:24to be oblivious to it and i considered
566. 19:27shooting myself but it was a 22 handgun
567. 19:30and steve had said you can't kill
568. 19:31anybody with a 22
569. 19:33surprise there's no way you could kill
570. 19:36somebody you would hurt them badly and
571. 19:38then i thought
572. 19:39besides my kids need me i can't die
573. 19:44then i thought maybe i should kill him
574. 19:46and then i said same gun same situation
575. 19:48i would hurt him he would be furious
576. 19:51then i'm really going to be in trouble
577. 19:53and so i said what do i do how do i tell
578. 19:55him i'm serious the guy went off yes i
579. 19:58fired it to scare the hell out of him
580. 20:00i wanted him to know that i was serious
581. 20:02enough
582. 20:03that if he kept this up if he kept doing
583. 20:05what he was doing to my mind someday
584. 20:07perhaps that would be pointed at a
585. 20:09person not now but sunday
586. 20:12and he just
587. 20:14i fired the gun he went oh my god and he
588. 20:17broke the door down
589. 20:18and i sat there and i handed him the gun
590. 20:20and i said now do you believe me
591. 20:22and he took the gun and he said yeah and
592. 20:24he left according to police reports
593. 20:27steve downes and robert nickelbacher
594. 20:29told authorities diane left arizona with
595. 20:32that gun in the trunk of her car
596. 20:34the gun hasn't been seen since
597. 20:38downs kept a diary it was a form of
598. 20:40solace for her her journal entries took
599. 20:42the form of unmailed letters to robert
600. 20:44knickelbacher
601. 20:46she wrote of her love for him and the
602. 20:47day-to-day events that happened before
603. 20:49the murder but may 19th the night of the
604. 20:52shootings is blank except for the date
605. 20:54sketched at the top i don't even cry in
606. 20:56front of my family
607. 20:58and i can go to my room and i can write
608. 21:00in this diary this record book
609. 21:03some of my fears and and it's really
610. 21:06even sketchy i don't write in a lot of
611. 21:08detail there are days when i'm
612. 21:09overwhelmed with with emotion and the
613. 21:11book will be rather emotional but but
614. 21:13very few days it's just sitting in front
615. 21:15of the book and and writing down
616. 21:18little sentences and then being able to
617. 21:19cry over it and and feel emotionally
618. 21:21everything that i don't physically write
619. 21:24down and it's a very good release it's
620. 21:27it's therapy in a way it's also a way of
621. 21:30keeping a record because in the
622. 21:31beginning so many things were said to me
623. 21:34that were denied later oh it's so sad
624. 21:37have you ever thought of the fact that
625. 21:39you're writing these things could be
626. 21:40used against you or in your favor at any
627. 21:43future time no i didn't because i never
628. 21:46thought the book would be made public
629. 21:48police seized that diary as evidence in
630. 21:50the case
631. 21:52downs is now expecting another child she
632. 21:55says her pregnancy takes away the
633. 21:56feelings of loneliness in prison
634. 21:59i got pregnant because i miss christy
635. 22:02and i miss danny and i miss cheryl so
636. 22:04much i'm never going to see cheryl on
637. 22:05earth again
638. 22:07and
639. 22:08i just you can't replace children
640. 22:11but you can replace the effect that they
641. 22:12give you and they give me love they give
642. 22:15me satisfaction they give me stability
643. 22:16they give me a reason to live and a
644. 22:18reason to be happy and
645. 22:20and that's gone they took it from me
646. 22:22but
647. 22:23children are so easy to conceive
648. 22:26obviously everyone is curious who the
649. 22:28father is and i know you probably don't
650. 22:29want to talk about that does the father
651. 22:31know who he is oh yeah yeah and that's
652. 22:33why i won't talk about it because he
653. 22:35feels as privately about this child as i
654. 22:36do
655. 22:38what would you do
656. 22:39given this current situation if they
657. 22:41said
658. 22:42they took if they took away your kids
659. 22:44and then they went one step further and
660. 22:45said we think you're an unfit mother
661. 22:47we're going to take away this one i
662. 22:49don't know how they're going to do it
663. 22:51what if the i i'd like to see them try
664. 22:53to take this baby from me and
665. 22:56how
666. 22:58how could they do it they're going to
667. 22:59have to wait a long time to do it
668. 23:01hopefully this thing will be cleared up
669. 23:02by then
670. 23:03i don't know that they could do this
671. 23:05take it away after it's born i don't
672. 23:08know i've never even talked to my
673. 23:09attorney about it because it seems so
674. 23:12let's put it the way the d.a says it's
675. 23:14laughable
676. 23:15down says her parents were shocked when
677. 23:18they found out she was pregnant again
678. 23:20my parents are the kind of people that
679. 23:22wish you would do everything by the book
680. 23:24in the order that it's
681. 23:26pre-written you get married before you
682. 23:28have a baby
683. 23:30and
684. 23:31being married is not and never has been
685. 23:34i take it back when i was young when i
686. 23:36was 16 17 18 being married was the most
687. 23:38important thing in the world to me and i
688. 23:40think it's because i was raised that way
689. 23:41most girls are
690. 23:43but since that time since my divorce
691. 23:44being married has been an iffy thing i
692. 23:47can do it if i want i don't have to if i
693. 23:49don't want it and it's never been
694. 23:51uppermost of my mind my children are my
695. 23:53children always have been and having
696. 23:55children is i think being a mother
697. 23:58is the most wonderful job that that any
698. 24:01woman could perform
699. 24:03i die every day when i go to bed i cry
700. 24:06at night even now i still cry i dream
701. 24:08about cheryl i dream about cheryl
702. 24:10reaching out with me with her arms and
703. 24:12always
704. 24:13giving me a kiss and saying i love you i
705. 24:14miss you where have you been it's almost
706. 24:16as if she really is coming back
707. 24:18and saying
708. 24:19how come you're not here with me
709. 24:23one time it was right after christie
710. 24:24went to the foster home i dreamed that
711. 24:26cheryl came to me well christy came to
712. 24:28me and i said christy how did you find
713. 24:30me and she said cheryl brought me and
714. 24:32cheryl came walking out of the shadows
715. 24:34and there was blood on her shirt and i
716. 24:36just yeah it was really spooky and i
717. 24:38said
718. 24:39cheryl i thought you were dead she goes
719. 24:41no i was faking it i knew they were
720. 24:42going to take christie away and she
721. 24:43wouldn't be able to find you so i
722. 24:44brought you and then cheryl showed us
723. 24:46how to sneak danny out of the hospital
724. 24:48and everything it was it was a wonderful
725. 24:49dream it was wonderful because we were
726. 24:51we were the four musketeers and we were
727. 24:53together again and but anyway my dad
728. 24:55knows how much i was grieving for the
729. 24:57kids and
730. 24:58so he couldn't very well condemn the
731. 25:00fact that i was having a child because
732. 25:01it's
733. 25:02like i said it's it's not a full
734. 25:04replacement you can never replace a
735. 25:06child i tried to do that with danny
736. 25:08danny was a replacement for a child that
737. 25:10i had aborted many many years ago when i
738. 25:13was quite young and foolish and
739. 25:15and i found at that time when when danny
740. 25:17was born that he is a person and himself
741. 25:19you you cannot replace a child with a
742. 25:21child they are individuals and this
743. 25:23child is not to replace cher never
744. 25:25cheryl's always going to be with me how
745. 25:26could i replace her she's still here
746. 25:29but
747. 25:30it's somebody to keep me company until
748. 25:32chris and dan come home
749. 25:34somebody that i can love and feel and
750. 25:36talk to it's not like you're talking to
751. 25:38yourself anymore there is somebody there
752. 25:40and
753. 25:41and that's all this is and so my dad
754. 25:43couldn't really condemn it even though
755. 25:44he doesn't condone it over the nine
756. 25:46months the past without an arrest in
757. 25:48this case downes lived with her parents
758. 25:50in springfield
759. 25:52police reports claim downs has changed
760. 25:54her story about what happened the night
761. 25:56of the shootings
762. 25:57they say she gave several different
763. 25:59stories about the man who shot them when
764. 26:01talking to her former husband or
765. 26:03ex-boyfriend
766. 26:04downs claimed afterward that two men
767. 26:06were there the night of the murder and
768. 26:08they knew her by name we asked her about
769. 26:11those allegations before those police
770. 26:12reports became public did you remember
771. 26:15that there was more than one person
772. 26:17there that night i mean long after no
773. 26:21that is another thing that
774. 26:23i suppose if you listen to the different
775. 26:25tapes that were made tapes by my
776. 26:27ex-boyfriend tapes by the sheriff's
777. 26:28department you would understand a
778. 26:30psychological pattern that was being
779. 26:32built up is something that i did not
780. 26:33even understand at the time because
781. 26:35first of all i trusted the cops and even
782. 26:38though i didn't trust the cops i was
783. 26:39forced into a position of saying they're
784. 26:41the only people that really can help me
785. 26:42they're the only people that will try to
786. 26:44find the person that did this
787. 26:46and you're trapped in a position of
788. 26:48having to trust somebody even though you
789. 26:49don't know if you should trust somebody
790. 26:51downs also says the children were shot
791. 26:54inside the car but police reports claim
792. 26:56high velocity blood spatters were found
793. 26:59on the outside of the car on the
794. 27:01passenger side
795. 27:03the police found blood on the outside of
796. 27:05the car
797. 27:06could one of the children perhaps cheryl
798. 27:08have fallen out of the car on the
799. 27:10passenger side
800. 27:11the d.a has come up with this idea that
801. 27:13somebody was shot on the outside of the
802. 27:15car on the passenger side of your car i
803. 27:18was on the driver's side of the car when
804. 27:20i was shot and that's why it was so
805. 27:23i'm going it was planted and it just
806. 27:26seemed i mean it can't be real because
807. 27:28they talk about blood spatter and when
808. 27:30they say spatter i think something being
809. 27:32shot out like the blood spatter in the
810. 27:35car you know it was so uniform it was so
811. 27:37regular same size droplets spread evenly
812. 27:40in a pattern and when they say spatter
813. 27:43that's what i thought of and
814. 27:45we saw pictures of this so-called
815. 27:47spatter
816. 27:49it's drops when they took the kids they
817. 27:51took chris and share out of the driver's
818. 27:53side of the car
819. 27:55and it's blood droplets it's when they
820. 27:57picked the kids up and carried them over
821. 27:59the threshold there is blood dripping
822. 28:01down the side of the car
823. 28:02but may 19th is an evening that will not
824. 28:05be forgotten by the survivors
825. 28:07but the the thing that really really
826. 28:09haunts me the most is not even the sight
827. 28:11and the sound i mean the sound and the
828. 28:13smell are fading but at night when i
829. 28:15close my eyes i can see christy reaching
830. 28:17her hand out to me while i'm driving
831. 28:20and the blood just keep coming out of
832. 28:22her mouth and that
833. 28:23maybe it'll fade too with time but i i
834. 28:25don't think so that haunts me the most
835. 28:34elizabeth diane downs is lodged in the
836. 28:37lane county jail she's charged with
837. 28:39murdering cheryl downs and attempting to
838. 28:42murder christie and danny downs
839. 28:45jim was talking in court about how danny
840. 28:47points a gun at a family portrait and
841. 28:49shoots at people
842. 28:51you did not read the part where it says
843. 28:53that danny is shooting mommy and cheryl
844. 28:55simple to understand he doesn't shoot
845. 28:57christy because christie is there with
846. 28:58him he shoots cheryl because everybody's
847. 29:01told him that cheryl's dead therefore if
848. 29:03mommy doesn't come around she must be
849. 29:05dead too and so he's shooting them
850. 29:06because he was shot christy was shot
851. 29:09cheryl was shot mommy was shot they're
852. 29:10dead
853. 29:11it's it's a terrible what's happening to
854. 29:14danny terrifies me
855. 29:15because maybe he's angry at most
856. 29:18children get angry at their parents if
857. 29:20their parents die when they're young and
858. 29:21they hate them for it and it takes many
859. 29:23many years to come out of it and danny's
860. 29:25probably very angry at cheryl for
861. 29:26deserting him because like i said we
862. 29:28were a close family he could depend on
863. 29:30cheryl to do anything danny used to come
864. 29:32running down the hall at night and climb
865. 29:33into bed and announce i'm sleeping with
866. 29:35you tonight because my room's too dark
867. 29:38and now he can't do that he can't run
868. 29:40down the hall at all he's trapped in his
869. 29:41bed