DIANE DOWNS │ BEDSIDE INTERROGATION 3 REMASTER — Transcript

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1. 0:01back on the tape recorder and see the
2. 0:05time is
3. 0:0616:07.
4. 0:08You know military time you working in
5. 0:11post office you have to know it.
6. 0:15>> And uh
7. 0:18Detective Walsh and myself and Diane are
8. 0:21in the room 319.
9. 0:25Okay. Um who were we when we left off?
10. 0:29Does anybody remember?
11. 0:32>> Oh, we were just talking about Nick.
12. 0:34>> Oh,
13. 0:34>> we were done.
14. 0:36>> Well, what I want to get into is is
15. 0:39coming back down the road
16. 0:42down Marco Road and
17. 0:45>> and then heading off onto uh Old Mohawk.
18. 0:49>> Mhm.
19. 0:50>> Um
20. 0:53Okay. Is there any reason why you chose
21. 0:55that road?
22. 0:56>> No, it was just there.
23. 0:57>> Okay. I've never been on it before.
24. 1:00>> You like to explore?
25. 1:01>> Yeah.
26. 1:03>> Have you done that since you've been
27. 1:04here? Just
28. 1:05>> Yeah.
29. 1:05>> Find a road.
30. 1:06>> Yeah, we do that a lot.
31. 1:07>> Did you wonder where it ended up?
32. 1:09>> Yeah, cuz I had seen the word old Mohawk
33. 1:13before somewhere. And I thought that it
34. 1:16might take me to the Mohawk, the regular
35. 1:18Mohawk road.
36. 1:20The the one that comes off the freeway.
37. 1:22It's called the Mohawk.
38. 1:25>> Yes.
39. 1:26>> I think it's called Mohawk. Yeah. Okay.
40. 1:29All right. So, you took that. Now,
41. 1:34you described before where it was, of
42. 1:36course, that you stopped.
43. 1:38>> Can you estimate distance pretty well?
44. 1:40>> No.
45. 1:41>> Oh, okay.
46. 1:43Um,
47. 1:44did you stop in the middle of the road,
48. 1:46the left side of the road, or the right
49. 1:47side of the road?
50. 1:48>> Off to the right side.
51. 1:49>> Oh, off of the road. Did you pull off?
52. 1:51>> Not off all the way. No, just sort of
53. 1:53off. Just
54. 1:55a little bit more than that other yellow
55. 1:57car was off.
56. 1:59>> Okay. Now, which
57. 2:01>> you don't know how far that was.
58. 2:02>> Was the right side of your car off into
59. 2:05a kind of a gravel area or
60. 2:07>> It was dirt.
61. 2:08>> It was dirt. Okay. All right.
62. 2:12Okay.
63. 2:15And then
64. 2:18you saw this guy waving his hand.
65. 2:23And what did you do then?
66. 2:25>> I stopped so I wouldn't hit him.
67. 2:27>> Yeah.
68. 2:28>> I got out and I was getting ready to
69. 2:31walk around to where he was, but then I
70. 2:33didn't. I just stood there
71. 2:34>> cuz he started walking towards me.
72. 2:36>> Was your door open?
73. 2:37>> Yeah. I was standing in my door.
74. 2:38>> Oh, okay.
75. 2:39>> Right. Standing between the door and the
76. 2:41>> All right.
77. 2:43>> And that's when he said, "I want your
78. 2:45car."
79. 2:48>> By the time he was walking, I was
80. 2:50standing behind the door. As I got out,
81. 2:53I was gonna go around and see. I
82. 2:55thought, you know, for all somebody was
83. 2:57laying in the ditch or something on the
84. 2:58side and I was gonna go see if somebody
85. 2:59was hurting and I got out to walk
86. 3:01around, but he was starting to walk
87. 3:03towards me. So, I just stood there and
88. 3:05asked him what was wrong. And he, as he
89. 3:09was coming around, I was asking him and
90. 3:12he got right there. He said, "For
91. 3:15I know."
92. 3:18>> Yeah. Right. For the purpose of take
93. 3:20>> I have to describe this. describe. Are
94. 3:22you at the corner of your door or are
95. 3:24you at
96. 3:25>> No. Okay. If you make a triangle with
97. 3:28the door and the car and an imaginary
98. 3:31line in between where the door and the
99. 3:32car hit.
100. 3:33>> I was sort of in the middle of that.
101. 3:35>> Okay. So, he comes over and he says, "I
102. 3:38want your car." And I said, "You got to
103. 3:40be kidding." And he shoved me back and
104. 3:42fired into the car. And like I said, it
105. 3:45was a matter of 10 seconds. That may be
106. 3:46an exaggeration. It may have been 5
107. 3:48seconds.
108. 3:48>> Happens very quickly.
109. 3:49>> Very fast. seems like an eternity. Get
110. 3:52it though. Like I remember one time
111. 3:54Chris Oh, I'm going off on a tangent
112. 3:55again. I'm sorry. I do this a lot. But
113. 3:58Christy was sitting in her chair at home
114. 4:00and Steve and we were still there. Steve
115. 4:02and I were sitting and we were talking
116. 4:03at the table and she was kicking back in
117. 4:05the chair, putting her feet up on the
118. 4:06edge of the chair and kicking back and
119. 4:09her chair started tipping over and she's
120. 4:10holding a bowl of peach cobbler or
121. 4:12something and I mean you can see it
122. 4:14happening but you just can't reach out
123. 4:16and stop that chair from going. I mean,
124. 4:19it's like it goes in slow motion and it
125. 4:21takes 20 minutes to happen, but yet it's
126. 4:23like that. And her chair flipped back
127. 4:26and the peach cobbler went all over the
128. 4:28wall and she sailed and she goes, "Why
129. 4:30didn't you catch me? You could see I was
130. 4:32falling." I mean, she was just really
131. 4:34indignant, but it happened so fast yet
132. 4:36so slow. And that's the way this was.
133. 4:39And that was the same kind of look
134. 4:40Christy gave last night. Why didn't you
135. 4:44do something? You saw what was
136. 4:45happening. It was just that same really
137. 4:47insulting look when she raised up off
138. 4:49the seat. She's the one in the back that
139. 4:51got hit first.
140. 4:52>> Oh yeah.
141. 4:52>> And she raised up and she just had that
142. 4:55same look like why don't you do
143. 4:57something and it's all happening so fast
144. 4:59and you just you can't believe it, you
145. 5:02know?
146. 5:03>> Well, you were looking.
147. 5:05>> You were looking
148. 5:07>> I was by you pushed me back and I was
149. 5:09like by the the seat the back seat. I
150. 5:11have those little wings like a
151. 5:12butterfly.
152. 5:13>> You can see that.
153. 5:14>> Yeah. Okay. and she raised up on her
154. 5:17arm, I guess, and she grabbed at her
155. 5:20chest.
156. 5:22She grabbed with her left hand and shot
157. 5:24again. And that's when you go in the
158. 5:27left hand as well.
159. 5:29And she's left-handed.
160. 5:31So anyway, it happens so fast and yet so
161. 5:34long. Like so five or 10 seconds. I
162. 5:37don't know.
163. 5:38>> Well, did he step in between the door
164. 5:40and
165. 5:40>> Yeah. When he shoved me, he stepped in
166. 5:42>> in between the door and the cry.
167. 5:44>> Yes. for the opening of the car, you
168. 5:46know.
169. 5:47>> And then how far do you think his hand
170. 5:49went in? Just
171. 5:50>> I don't know. I was looking under the
172. 5:52kid. I don't know. Like I said, I didn't
173. 5:53even see the gun up until he he shot at
174. 5:56me until he swung on.
175. 5:57>> Could you see him? Was there a blast?
176. 6:00>> No.
177. 6:01>> What hand did he hold the gun in?
178. 6:03>> His right hand.
179. 6:04>> Right hand.
180. 6:05>> You guys asked me that. I told you I
181. 6:06thought it was and I just I've been
182. 6:08thinking about it over and over and I'm
183. 6:09positive now it was his right hand.
184. 6:13>> Okay. And then the sequence, I think you
185. 6:15told us
186. 6:16>> he shot Christy and then you shot at
187. 6:18Danny and then Cheryl. Cheryl was last.
188. 6:21So like I said, Cheryl must have moved
189. 6:23or something.
190. 6:23>> Cheryl's up.
191. 6:24>> She was in the front. Yeah.
192. 6:27>> Um I think Wait. Yeah. You said she
193. 6:30normally curls up on
194. 6:31>> like a cat. Like a [ __ ] cat on the
195. 6:33floor. Yeah.
196. 6:34>> She does that a lot when we travel. She
197. 6:35just constant just curls up on the
198. 6:37floor.
199. 6:38>> Of course. It was dark at this time.
200. 6:39>> Yeah. Uh, was that a warm or cool night
201. 6:43or I mean um
202. 6:45>> all things are relative. I understand
203. 6:47each each person but
204. 6:49>> basically as far as I'm concerned I
205. 6:50haven't been here very long but as far
206. 6:52as I'm concerned for Oregon it was a
207. 6:53fairly warm I mean not warm but for
208. 6:55Oregon it for Arizona it was cold.
209. 6:57>> Yes. Okay.
210. 6:58>> But for Oregon it seemed the day had
211. 7:00been sunny and bright.
212. 7:02Now, do you recall
213. 7:06I know I was just astounded by
214. 7:09when we asked you before that you could
215. 7:10almost recall the the numbers of shots.
216. 7:14>> Yeah.
217. 7:14>> Okay.
218. 7:15>> I can't recall all of them. I know he
219. 7:17just fired and fired, but I know Christy
220. 7:19was hit at least twice because she was
221. 7:21shot once and she raised up and she had
222. 7:23that startled look like
223. 7:26do something look, you know, and then
224. 7:28she reached and he shot again. So, I do
225. 7:31recall that. I don't know how many times
226. 7:33he shot at Danny. I know Danny took one
227. 7:35bullet. I don't know if he shot at him
228. 7:36more than that. And then it she shot at
229. 7:40Carol Cheryl a couple times. And then I
230. 7:42know he shot at me twice. That I do
231. 7:44remember cuz he swung around with power.
232. 7:46I don't know how many times I was hit. I
233. 7:49know I got hit once, but I don't know if
234. 7:52if I wasn't hit any place else, but I
235. 7:55know he shot at me twice.
236. 7:56>> For the purpose of the recorder, I
237. 7:58didn't go over that already. It's the
238. 8:00left forearm.
239. 8:00>> The left forearm. Yeah.
240. 8:02>> Apparently entered the underside of your
241. 8:06forearm and exited. Well, the underside
242. 8:08being the the softer area and then
243. 8:10exited through the child. I don't
244. 8:12recall. I don't know.
245. 8:15I don't know. I can't remember what it
246. 8:17looks like now. I just know there's a
247. 8:19small hole in the small hole.
248. 8:21>> How far do you think he was from you
249. 8:25when when he fired at you?
250. 8:28Probably only a couple of feet
251. 8:32as
252. 8:32>> close as we are.
253. 8:34>> Yeah, maybe a little bit closer even.
254. 8:37>> Okay. Okay. For the purpose of tape
255. 8:40recorder,
256. 8:41>> probably as far as from head to head a
257. 8:45little better in terms of that. Now
258. 8:46you're sitting off the distance, but I
259. 8:48would guess five four feet 5T. No, more
260. 8:50than four. Okay.
261. 8:53All right.
262. 8:56Um,
263. 8:57all right. After
264. 9:00after this
265. 9:03happened,
266. 9:05where did he go? What did he do?
267. 9:08>> Okay. He faked thrown the keys and he
268. 9:10swung around and shot and he kept he
269. 9:12just like concentration followed where
270. 9:14he thought the keys was going. Maybe as
271. 9:17far as he was concerned that was the car
272. 9:19because without the keys you got no car.
273. 9:20>> Did you have in your hand jingling and
274. 9:22you made like you were going to throw
275. 9:23them?
276. 9:23>> Yeah, they where they were on the end of
277. 9:24my finger like that. I always stick the
278. 9:26keys on the end of my finger and I had a
279. 9:28house key and a and a car key together
280. 9:29and they made a sound and I fake
281. 9:32throwing them and but they were hooked
282. 9:33on my finger so I could just close my
283. 9:34hand around it and I wasn't going to let
284. 9:36go of them for anything cuz my plan what
285. 9:38I hoped was just to distract him and get
286. 9:39him the hell out of my way because he
287. 9:40was between me and my seat and I
288. 9:43couldn't get in there and he he went
289. 9:46like this. Well, he turned his head. He
290. 9:48looked he threw his
291. 9:50>> record
292. 9:52he looked from He turned his head to the
293. 9:55right to the right. Away from the car,
294. 9:59past me over into the other ditch. Okay.
295. 10:03>> Which be the ditch on your left side.
296. 10:05>> Yeah.
297. 10:06>> Okay.
298. 10:06>> Yeah. As you're going down the left
299. 10:08side.
300. 10:08>> Okay.
301. 10:10>> And when he did that, I just I kicked
302. 10:12him with my knee and my foot and I
303. 10:14pushed him with my arm that wasn't shot.
304. 10:17This one, like I said, it didn't hurt
305. 10:18that bad, but I knew something wasn't
306. 10:20quite right with it. It wasn't It didn't
307. 10:22handle properly. It was hurting. So,
308. 10:23>> was it hanging down and you couldn't
309. 10:25>> pull it up or what?
310. 10:27>> It was when I lifted it up, it acted
311. 10:29cookie, real weird. And so I
312. 10:32>> So, you didn't have use of
313. 10:33>> I let go of it cuz when I pull it up, it
314. 10:34was it was sharp pain. A real twingy
315. 10:36sharp pain. So, I just dropped it. Just
316. 10:37shoved him. Like I said, it all happened
317. 10:39in a matter of seconds, but so much can
318. 10:42happen and your brain can register so
319. 10:43much in such a short time. And I just
320. 10:45shoved him, jumped in the cart, turned
321. 10:47the ignition on, and took off the door
322. 10:48shut itself before it started shut. And
323. 10:51with the for taking off.
324. 10:54>> And from that point on, like I said, I
325. 10:56don't know if he fired after me again
326. 10:57after that or not. I all I could hear
327. 10:59was Christy choking and Dan crying.
328. 11:01>> Okay. Is that a automatic or state?
329. 11:04>> Automatic.
330. 11:06>> Okay. So, you took off, I assume, at a
331. 11:09high rate of speed.
332. 11:10>> As fast as it would go.
333. 11:12>> And
334. 11:14somewhere between
335. 11:17there and at the stop sign, which is
336. 11:21what?
337. 11:22three legs.
338. 11:24>> Oh, yes. I had a
339. 11:28>> um
340. 11:31you you've got a towel to wrap around
341. 11:33your hand.
342. 11:34>> Do you remember about when you did?
343. 11:37>> No, because I can't even say for sure
344. 11:38that I had it by the time I stopped at
345. 11:40the stop sign. I may have grabbed it
346. 11:42when I stopped at the stop sign. I don't
347. 11:44recall at all. All I remember is
348. 11:48I the only thing I can remember about
349. 11:50driving is turning around and looking at
350. 11:52Christine and watching her turn yellow
351. 11:54and yellow and the blood coming out of
352. 11:57her mouth
353. 11:59and I kept telling and her eyes were so
354. 12:00glazed and I kept telling her face was
355. 12:02all and Danny kept going oh mom like
356. 12:05that and that's all and I kept looking
357. 12:07at Cheryl and saying Cheryl Danny wake
358. 12:09up wake up and she wouldn't make a sound
359. 12:11or lose it and I kept telling him I love
360. 12:12him and I kept saying don't worry about
361. 12:15it. He can't hurt us anymore. We're
362. 12:16going to go get help. I just kept
363. 12:19talking and as far as my actions, I
364. 12:20don't know. I know that I stopped at one
365. 12:22red light. I stopped at the stop sign at
366. 12:25the bridge cuz there was a car coming
367. 12:27and my arm was starting to throb
368. 12:31and I don't remember when I grabbed the
369. 12:34towel.
370. 12:35>> Where in the vehicle did you get the
371. 12:37towel from? What?
372. 12:38>> I don't know. I don't Some places I
373. 12:40could reach easily. Yeah, it wasn't in
374. 12:41the back.
375. 12:42>> You're certain it wasn't? I'm certain it
376. 12:44wasn't in the back because
377. 12:46I would have had to have looked for it.
378. 12:48I would have had to have reached for it
379. 12:50because what wherever I got it from, it
380. 12:52was spontaneous.
381. 12:54I mean, I must have just seen it. Maybe
382. 12:55it was sitting on the console between
383. 12:57us. Maybe it was down by my feet and I
384. 12:58had to kick it out of the way to drive
385. 13:00or something. I don't know. It was
386. 13:02someplace that I had to think of it
387. 13:03subconsciously because I didn't
388. 13:05purposefully
389. 13:06find it anywhere. The only thing that I
390. 13:09did consciously was tell Christie to
391. 13:11roll over on her face. And I kept
392. 13:14telling him how much I love him and tell
393. 13:16Well, it was strange. I kept telling
394. 13:17Cheryl to wake up and I kept telling
395. 13:18Chrissy to go to sleep. Just relax. Go
396. 13:21to sleep.
397. 13:22>> Well, I'm sure that there's a lot of
398. 13:25panic then. And
399. 13:26>> I know all the things you say and none
400. 13:28of it really means any good, but it
401. 13:29gives you the courage to keep going. And
402. 13:31it kept me awake as I was driving like a
403. 13:33lunatic. I rolled my window down, too.
404. 13:36hand my windows cuz the wind I couldn't
405. 13:38reach it from my side. I had to roll
406. 13:41sure window down. I was driving with my
407. 13:43knee and and rolling the window down the
408. 13:45other hand.
409. 13:47It was insane.
410. 13:50When I put my hatch I could put my top
411. 13:53little hatch thing. As a matter of fact,
412. 13:55somebody had rolled the window up for me
413. 13:57when they parked it and I asked if the
414. 13:58car was locked up and we were going out
415. 14:00to the scene again. And u they said, "Oh
416. 14:03yeah, the car's locked up." And I said,
417. 14:04"No, the hatch is fell off. It has a
418. 14:06little subtle part and I said, "Don't
419. 14:08worry about it." Since what if it rains,
420. 14:09you know, it stayed rain at any time.
421. 14:11It's not going to rain. So, I guess they
422. 14:13told it right now or at least it's
423. 14:14impounded inside somewhere or something.
424. 14:16Okay.
425. 14:18>> I've got a couple questions that came to
426. 14:20mind.
427. 14:23>> When you kicked the suspect, where did
428. 14:27you kick him?
429. 14:28>> Kind of in the leg, in the thigh, cuz my
430. 14:30knee was right I hit him with my knee
431. 14:32and push your right. Oh, I missed my
432. 14:35butt.
433. 14:35>> You kicked him.
434. 14:36>> Yeah, I just I leaned into him is what I
435. 14:38did. I didn't even kick at him. It's not
436. 14:40like I was punching. I just leaned and
437. 14:42pushed. It was kind of a kick at the
438. 14:44same time.
439. 14:46>> It's hard to describe it.
440. 14:47>> And was where was he standing then?
441. 14:50>> When he was shooting, he was right. He
442. 14:54was standing where I had been standing.
443. 14:55If you imagine the triangle, he had
444. 14:57taken my place
445. 14:59>> when he swung around.
446. 15:01>> When he was asking about the keys in the
447. 15:04car and I threw the keys, he swung
448. 15:05around. He stepped out of that triangle
449. 15:07to the edge to the tip of the triangle.
450. 15:09So, he was right there. So, when I
451. 15:10pushed him, it just pushed him right
452. 15:12past the edge of the door and then I
453. 15:15jumped in. Okay.
454. 15:19Why did you take the keys from the
455. 15:21ignition to park the car?
456. 15:23>> Uh, it's just the hangup I have about my
457. 15:25car. My ex-husband used to always leave
458. 15:26the keys in the car. I mean, if he'd go
459. 15:28to the store or park it at home or
460. 15:30whatever, you leave the keys in. And it
461. 15:31became an obsession with me. When you
462. 15:34get out of the car, you take the keys,
463. 15:36especially when you have kids because
464. 15:38you can never tell when they're going to
465. 15:39start it up and get hurt themselves.
466. 15:41>> And it's just an obsession. When you get
467. 15:42out of the car to go do anything, you
468. 15:44take the keys. And as far as I know,
469. 15:46somebody could have been hurt and laying
470. 15:47in the ditch. You don't just leave the
471. 15:48keys there. And then the kids wake up
472. 15:50and want to know where the home mommy
473. 15:51is. And
474. 15:52>> you can never tell.
475. 15:53>> It's kind of a habit pattern.
476. 15:54>> It is.
477. 15:55have it just as when I used to live in
478. 15:57Arizona, we had a key drawer. In that
479. 16:00drawer, you put all your your
480. 16:01accountables, your keys, your money,
481. 16:03your wallet, whatever. That way, it was
482. 16:05never lost. I'm just a real methodical
483. 16:07type person. It's just something you do.
484. 16:09It's a habit before.
485. 16:10>> Did you shut your headlights off?
486. 16:14>> No, I didn't. No, they were still on.
487. 16:17>> They were still on, but the ignition had
488. 16:19been turned off. The engine was not
489. 16:22>> record because I wanted to see if
490. 16:24somebody was hurt. I wanted to be able
491. 16:25to see it. I want to have to run back to
492. 16:26the car and turn it around.
493. 16:28>> Sure. The kids were received at this
494. 16:30time.
495. 16:31>> Okay.
496. 16:33What was the seating arrangement? Uh the
497. 16:36kids seating arrangement
498. 16:39>> Heather's place
499. 16:40>> the same as it was except that they were
500. 16:42sitting on the seat. Cheryl was sitting
501. 16:43on she was she was doing something.
502. 16:49I don't know. They were they were all
503. 16:50doing something themselves. They weren't
504. 16:52doing anything as a group. Danny was
505. 16:54just standing there looking out the
506. 16:55window. Probably he was behind me. I
507. 16:56don't know what he's quiet.
508. 17:00Chrissy was getting kind of drowsy. So,
509. 17:01she was laying down. But, um, Cheryl was
510. 17:05doing something. I don't know if she'll
511. 17:07talk incessantly. It was a lot like her
512. 17:09mother.
513. 17:10And she probably was talking about
514. 17:12something. I don't know. Something about
515. 17:14school or something. I don't know.
516. 17:17>> You left your home at what time? between
517. 17:201:15.
518. 17:22>> Okay. And got up there at Heather's
519. 17:27>> about 15 minute drive.
520. 17:30>> Was it light or
521. 17:32>> was there a little light left?
522. 17:34>> When I got there, there was a little bit
523. 17:36of light. Yes. Because I could see the
524. 17:38horse when I drove up and I remember
525. 17:40thinking, I wonder if Heather already
526. 17:41got her white and we went inside. Oh, I
527. 17:45went inside and she says, I got to show
528. 17:46you something. So, we went out. I
529. 17:47couldn't drive the car in the room. It
530. 17:49was almost but by the time we left it
531. 17:51was dark.
532. 17:52>> All right. And you stayed approximately
533. 17:54>> 15 or 20 minutes.
534. 17:55>> 15 or 20 minutes.
535. 17:58Okay.
536. 18:05>> You'll have to excuse me. I'm kind of
537. 18:07jumping around here with some of these
538. 18:08questions.
539. 18:15Let's talk about the gun for a second.
540. 18:18>> Okay.
541. 18:20>> He held the gun with his right hand.
542. 18:22>> Yeah.
543. 18:22>> Okay.
544. 18:24>> What type of gun was it?
545. 18:26>> I don't know.
546. 18:27>> You know?
547. 18:27>> No.
548. 18:28>> Can you describe it? What you saw of it?
549. 18:30>> No, I can't. Um, the closest I can come
550. 18:32to is it was a dark gun, like black and
551. 18:35blue or something like that.
552. 18:36>> Yeah.
553. 18:36>> And it was skinny.
554. 18:38>> Skinny?
555. 18:39>> Yeah. It wasn't big and bulky. It wasn't
556. 18:42Like he I think it was you that showed
557. 18:44me what a revolver was.
558. 18:45>> Automatic.
559. 18:46>> I Yeah. What? You have an automatic. And
560. 18:48are you still wearing that today?
561. 18:50>> Yeah. Still got it.
562. 18:52>> So concealed.
563. 18:54>> And then somebody else you got I can't
564. 18:56remember change.
565. 18:58>> And it was more like what you had.
566. 19:00>> Flat.
567. 19:00>> Yeah. The flat. Yeah. That
568. 19:02>> I call skinny face.
569. 19:04>> Okay. Well, you know the difference
570. 19:05between a revolver and an automatic.
571. 19:09>> I don't know. I Well, what's a revolver
572. 19:11like like what he has?
573. 19:12>> Revolver's got the cylinder that goes
574. 19:14around and you can see the the bullets
575. 19:18inside. That's a revolver. In an
576. 19:19automatic, you can't see.
577. 19:20>> Okay, that was an automatic.
578. 19:22>> Okay.
579. 19:26>> How do you uh
580. 19:30How many guns do you own?
581. 19:32>> I have two.
582. 19:33>> And what are they? One is a 22 rifle sit
583. 19:36in my closet and one is the 38
584. 19:40handgun and then I don't know what you
585. 19:41call 38 I guess.
586. 19:44>> Have you fired all all those?
587. 19:46>> No, I've never fired the 38. I have
588. 19:48fired the 22.
589. 19:52>> About uh any other kinds of weapons you
590. 19:54ever fired?
591. 19:55>> Yeah. Um 306 and a 12 gauge. They're
592. 19:59rifles. I've never fired handguns.
593. 20:02>> No handguns. No.
594. 20:13>> Earlier, uh, Diane, you said you like to
595. 20:15go to different parks and places for the
596. 20:17kids and do you have any favorite spots
597. 20:21that you really like to take the kids or
598. 20:23you you yourself really like to go to?
599. 20:26>> They like the Mackenzie River down by
600. 20:27the bridge. I thought it was kind of
601. 20:29boring, but we used to go there a lot in
602. 20:30the evening.
603. 20:31>> Yeah. They like to watch the rats in the
604. 20:33moonlight, you know. I mean, it looks
605. 20:35nice in the daytime, but it really you
606. 20:37have to go with your wife sometimes at
607. 20:38night and just look it really is pretty.
608. 20:40We used to like to go there. Probably
609. 20:43one of my favorite places is Hendrick's
610. 20:46Park and the kids really liked it, too.
611. 20:49They could do some salt and flips and
612. 20:51run and ch.
613. 20:54>> Can you get anywhere close to the river?
614. 20:58>> I know. No, I didn't even realize it was
615. 21:00close to the river until
616. 21:02Oh,
617. 21:05I think yesterday when I was driving on
618. 21:06the river day before yesterday
619. 21:11day before yesterday when I was coming
620. 21:12across the river and I said, "Yeah,
621. 21:13that's just up on that." I didn't know
622. 21:16that.
623. 21:17>> No, we had never done that.
624. 21:19>> But I think it is of course.
625. 21:24>> Yeah.
626. 21:26Doesn't it overlook that the floor?
627. 21:29>> I'm trying to think. I That's why I
628. 21:31asked. I'm not sure if you can get down
629. 21:33>> through that way. Oh, maybe maybe you
630. 21:34can't get I don't know,
631. 21:37>> but it seems like it does run down the
632. 21:38basement.
633. 21:43>> It's been a while since
634. 21:49I thought I was seeing things. Look out.
635. 21:51There's the window up in the sky.
636. 21:54>> I can't see. Thought I saw a stationary
637. 21:56bird. It's a kite.
638. 21:57>> A kite. Reminded me, we have ultral
639. 22:00lights where I come from a lot of them.
640. 22:01They're those little
641. 22:03>> They have cloth wings, real brightly
642. 22:05colored, and they have a real small
643. 22:06engine and you just sit in a a little
644. 22:09harness and you fly. That's how you fly.
645. 22:11They're called ultralife.
646. 22:13>> You fly those?
647. 22:14>> No, but I want to. Told Nick I'd do it
648. 22:16when I was about age seven when I was
649. 22:18ready to die anyway. So, it collapsed.
650. 22:22He said that sounded like a good time.
651. 22:24>> When you're 87, you may be saying you
652. 22:26may wait till you're 100.
653. 22:27>> That's true. I may live longer than
654. 22:29that. That's true.
655. 22:32>> Sorry.
656. 22:33>> Well, you just mentioned making that
657. 22:34brother.
658. 22:36>> How's he feel about your kids?
659. 22:39>> He likes them. Um, he says they're real
660. 22:42well, real well, obedient. He says as
661. 22:46far as kids go, they're great. He never,
662. 22:48his whole life, he's never planned on
663. 22:50having kids. again left me when he was
664. 22:52about 21 or 22. He just decided not to
665. 22:55care. And then uh
666. 22:58that's that was another thing. When I
667. 23:00told him I was moving to Oregon, he
668. 23:02said, "No, I want you to stay." And I
669. 23:03says, "No, don't even think about
670. 23:04getting a divorce. You know, I've got
671. 23:05kids and I won't give them up." And he
672. 23:08says, "I know I can live with kids." And
673. 23:10I said, "Why?" He goes, "Cuz I want to."
674. 23:12And so the last week that that I was
675. 23:14there, we started talking about the kids
676. 23:16one time. And I don't know if you went
677. 23:19through any of my stuff at home, but I
678. 23:20have four red cups, big red cups.
679. 23:23Anyway, the dishes are put away
680. 23:25probably, but there were four red cups.
681. 23:28And he gave me one of them. Well, he's a
682. 23:30real romantic and giving type of person
683. 23:33in that respect. He'll give you a lot of
684. 23:34things. Well, while I was staying with
685. 23:36him, I had this cup. I said, "You know,
686. 23:38this is a pretty neat cup. You know, it
687. 23:39holds a lot and all this stuff." And he
688. 23:41says, "Well, why don't you just take
689. 23:42it?" And I said, "Okay." And then as the
690. 23:44week progressed, I started collecting
691. 23:46more and more cups. And he said, "I want
692. 23:47you to take four of them." And I said,
693. 23:49"Well, I only need one. I do my dishes
694. 23:51every day." And he says, "Well, there
695. 23:52are four of you." And he just he had
696. 23:54accepted me
697. 23:56totally as four people, not as one. And
698. 23:58it got to the point that he started
699. 24:00saying, "You know, Diane, when we get to
700. 24:02Oregon, we going to have to buy a
701. 24:03station wagon." And I went, "What? I
702. 24:07don't want a station wagon." And he
703. 24:08goes, "Yes, with all the kids we have,
704. 24:10we need a station wagon." And I said, "I
705. 24:13don't know, Nick. They're so ugly." And
706. 24:15he goes, "I don't mean like that one
707. 24:16there." And he points to Ezekiel Green
708. 24:18with a bunch of Indians in it. I'm sorry
709. 24:20I don't mean to I It wasn't a prejudice
710. 24:22statement. It's just we have a lot of
711. 24:23Indian station wagons back home. He
712. 24:26goes, "I mean like a Mercedes wagon.
713. 24:28They're real pretty. They look real
714. 24:29sharp and it'll be perfect for us and
715. 24:31the kids." And so he had just accepted
716. 24:33everything and it was just us and the
717. 24:35kids and it was fantastic.
718. 24:38So he had finally gotten over that
719. 24:41bridge. Not only your kids, but
720. 24:44>> he likes kids in kids.
721. 24:46>> No. No.
722. 24:48>> He does have one little girl which he
723. 24:50knows of. He's never seen in Vietnam and
724. 24:54one of his girlfriend got pregnant. But
725. 24:56as far as he's concerned, that's not his
726. 24:57name. But
727. 24:58>> does that pill need to be upset?
728. 25:01>> No, it just gets like my shoulder is
729. 25:03starting to get sore.
730. 25:05>> The rest of it is fine.
731. 25:07Like I told you earlier, you get tired
732. 25:10or just say something.
733. 25:12>> I'd rather go
734. 25:15over.
735. 25:15>> Okay, we'll turn this recorder off.
736. 25:1916 to 32 hours.
737. 25:23Okay, we're back on tape. Uh Dan's been
738. 25:27on the telephone for quite a long time
739. 25:29and uh and uh I think we're we're uh
740. 25:34just about through with this. You
741. 25:36getting tired now? I'm think it's about
742. 25:37time to
743. 25:38>> Yeah.
744. 25:39>> stop here pretty soon.
745. 25:40>> Getting tired. I'm anxious to see my
746. 25:41kids.
747. 25:42>> Okay. All right. A couple more questions
748. 25:43and
749. 25:44>> Sure.
750. 25:45>> Steve. Oh, in the inter room here, just
751. 25:47before we went back on tape, you did a
752. 25:49diagram
753. 25:50>> indicating where everyone was in
754. 25:53relation. Well, at least you and the
755. 25:55suspect.
756. 25:55>> Yeah. Yeah.
757. 25:57>> Um,
758. 25:59>> what time do you have?
759. 26:00>> I have 17 27.
760. 26:04>> Okay.
761. 26:05>> Yes.
762. 26:07Uh,
763. 26:10okay. The
764. 26:12as I understand it,
765. 26:15we'll keep going over this because it
766. 26:16has to be very very clear to us. The
767. 26:19children
768. 26:20uh who was in the in the front covered
769. 26:23up. Cheryl.
770. 26:24>> That's Cheryl. And Danny's right behind
771. 26:27you.
772. 26:28>> Right.
773. 26:29>> And Christiey's
774. 26:30>> in the back corner behind Cheryl's seat.
775. 26:32>> Right rear.
776. 26:34How was Danny lying on on the seat?
777. 26:38>> I don't really know. When I got to the
778. 26:39hospital, he was laying kind of like a
779. 26:42turtle with his hands and his knees
780. 26:43pulled up under him.
781. 26:44>> Okay. So So you didn't see how he was.
782. 26:47>> No. See, how was
783. 26:50>> how was Crystal? Yeah,
784. 26:51>> she was laying sort of on her right side
785. 26:53with her back against the seat
786. 26:56>> facing
787. 26:57>> with her head towards the the outside of
788. 26:59the car, feet towards Dan with her knees
789. 27:01drawn up close to
790. 27:03>> Okay. And and when when the shot was
791. 27:09firing in there.
792. 27:10>> Mhm.
793. 27:12>> You said she kind of raised up.
794. 27:14>> Yes. She straightened her legs out and
795. 27:17she raised up on her right arm, like her
796. 27:20right elbow. So,
797. 27:22>> and she grabbed it. She grabbed at her
798. 27:25chest with her left hand
799. 27:27>> and she was looking in your direction.
800. 27:29>> Yeah. She She was the way she was laying
801. 27:32down.
802. 27:34I have a real little back seat and when
803. 27:36two little kids are laying down, they're
804. 27:37pretty well scrunched. And so, she was
805. 27:39laying with her head pulled her chin was
806. 27:41pulled down to her chest. So, she was
807. 27:43laying tight like that. So when she
808. 27:45raced up, it was just like that,
809. 27:46straight up. And she was looking right
810. 27:48straight out the window, the little wing
811. 27:50window in the back.
812. 27:51>> Mhm.
813. 27:51>> And that's where I was.
814. 27:53>> That's when you got that impression.
815. 27:54>> Yeah. She just had that look. It's like,
816. 27:56help me. It's just like, what's going
817. 27:58on? She was just totally bewildered. And
818. 28:02I don't know, scared. Like she didn't
819. 28:04know what the hell was going on.
820. 28:06>> You figure she could see you through the
821. 28:08window?
822. 28:08>> I Yeah, I I imagine she could because
823. 28:11she just she had that look. Was she
824. 28:14looking at you with that wounded look as
825. 28:17if to ask you for help?
826. 28:19>> Yeah, as far as I could see. That's why
827. 28:20it kills me because
828. 28:24Yeah.
829. 28:26>> Okay.
830. 28:26>> And then she was shot again. She fell
831. 28:28back on his feet.
832. 28:30And that time he got her through the
833. 28:31hand because she was reaching her chest.
834. 28:36>> Well, Doug, I I can't think of anything
835. 28:38more.
836. 28:40>> I think everybody's just about had
837. 28:42enough. conversation. I don't think we
838. 28:45should
839. 28:45>> My behind is fine.
840. 28:46>> See? See, you got your your
841. 28:48>> Yeah. A thing out.
842. 28:49>> Intervenous or whatever.
843. 28:51>> Now I can my IV. Yeah.
844. 28:52>> IV.
845. 28:53>> Now I can go see Christie and she won't
846. 28:55be able to. That really bothered me when
847. 28:57I tried to show this bar. She can see
848. 28:59this white tape.
849. 29:01>> Still going.
850. 29:02>> Yeah, it's still going. And I think
851. 29:03we're going to go off tape. And the time
852. 29:06is according to my watch anyhow 17:30
853. 29:09thereabouts. And we're turning the
854. 29:11quarter off now. Okay.